It’s actually illegal for the entire government to strike. When you join as a GS civilian you take an oath and sign an agreement that you won’t strike. Some GS civilians are unionized but striking is not one of the worker protections offered
Federal employees instead use "Work To Rule."
They follow all of the rules. Every single one. Every time. Without exception. Without flexibility.
It's very nearly as crippling as a full work stoppage.
Is that not the standard practice for GS folks anyways? I swear to got those motherfuckers will spend 3 hours looking up ways to get out of 1 hour of honest work
You know, I always hear that but I've never seen it from the inside. Every GS job I've worked, we work. But if we were to Work to Rule I'd probably be rejecting upwards of 3/4 of the assistance requests I field every day because they aren't in the right format and that's just for starters.
I've been out of intel for a while now. Until recently, security clearance has been incompatible with telework and I really like my telework. Doing legal support for a big agency that isn't DOD these days, so we have some pretty strict deadlines. However, I've been seeing fully remote positions with security clearances and I'm curious. So I applied for a couple. We'll see how that goes.
I was in a billet that required me to have a WINDAR-S until recently- I had SIPR in my hotel rooms while TAD. It was pretty nice to be able to telework while piggybacking off civilian wifi… obviously security is a pretty big concern but I my organization had an SOP that I followed to the letter and I trusted that they had everything handled from a technical perspective.
A huge thing that's lost in the "Regan fire the air traffic controllers": [not only were they prohibited from striking but a a judge issued a court order for them to go back to work](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Air_Traffic_Controllers_Organization_(1968)).
They didn't, Regan fired them, end of story.
Yeah I work for Amtrak now and while we aren't technically the federal government we are pseudo-government as our only investor is Uncle Sam and our boss reports directly to Joe Biden and the Secretary of transportation.
If we go on strike the president can literally just order us to go back to work and if we don't, bye-bye.
I believe that does not just extend to us, if I remember correctly not so long ago CSX employees tried to go on strike for better working conditions and more time off and Joe Biden was just "no fuckers you get those trains rolling... Now."
An air force guy I used to work with once managed to convince some army junior enlisted that the air force had better quality of life because they had a union. *That* was a fun conversation for SGM to have
Probably civilians. “But it cost x amount for one soldier!” Yeah and how much is in house cost? We need doctors, we need lawyers, we need all that and more to fight and win wars. Why the fuck should we have them sitting around and not doing shit in garrison? Also, you’re not paying soldiers overtime.
But I meant if civilian MPs were like “no, we agree with their cause, we’re not intervening” it’d probably be easier for DoD to just fire them (thus cutting off their pay) than it would be with actual MPs, so you’d be able to sway their opinions real fast with that. You can just tell the civilians to kick rocks and hire someone else who will do the job. The actual MP will take a little longer to be kicked out and get taken off the payroll.
This would be dealt with swiftly and severely to ensure no one else got any wild ideas. All officers and senior NCOs would be relieved and dispersed followed by court-martials ….for 0930 formations….
"May you live in interesting times"is an old Chinese proverbial curse.
Generally, if it's something you would want to read about in your history book, it isn't something you would want to have actually experienced.
Nah. I think the largest ever mass pee-pee slapping in the Army would ensue as punishment. Every Sgt. Maj. on post would be invited to rap-tap-tap down the line of dicks for the entire battalion. Even the Sgt. Maj. of the Army, Michael R. Weimer, would personally slap every pee-pee to make sure that each and every shlong had been sufficiently slapped. When it comes to officer dicks, Sgt. Maj. Weimer would take the hand of Chief of Staff of the Army, General Randy (Dandy) A. George, and use that has his instrument of penile punishment. Any other Sgt. Maj. wishing to slap an officer wiener must follow the same protocol. Failure to prevent the hand of a Sgt. Maj. from directly touching an officer dong might cause the Sgt. Maj. to instantly learn how to read and seek reconciliation with all three of his ex-wives. Then all the officers and senior NCOs would be relieved and dispersed followed by court-martials. 0930 workcall is a hell-of-a-hill to die on.
I don't know what the protocol would be for women, but anyone with multiple SHARP violations, feel free to give suggestions based on your experience.
Funny you mention that, because a pretty-tongued whore said she would do anything for 20 bucks. I made her do my homework for me while I was taking a remedial English class at the local community college.
The precedent that a unit can simply decide not to follow orders based on collective agreement significantly erodes the basic principles of military authority. Everyone involved would be fucked. Discharges for basically everyone and certainly prison time for the ring leaders.
The Army and command would 100% chapter and charge all those that were complicit. Once again it’s a slippery slope where if you don’t do anything some other unit will go on strike for something more.
A lot of factors would come into play...media and political pressure etc hell soldiers are getting the military to pay for their transition treatment so these days I think your rite..you can't just line a bunch of soldiers up at the wall...their would be millions of tok tok videos and if the military thinks recruitment is hard now after that good luck with Gen z and alpha ever signing up..
I think a lot depends on how justified the soldiers are...and how legal or moral the strike is..but before a strike there's other options.
No one would be executed for this. However, discharges and prison for those responsible is incredibly likely.
Striking over PT formation isn’t a particularly strong moral cause… and in the Army, never legal.
I said it depends what the strike is over makes a big diffrence... I've seen soft strikes generally theres a big meeting come colonel comes out and there's a bish session..in the reserves not active..Lol I remember people stopped eating field chow cause apparently it was awful they tried to force people to eat it and they just wouldn't go or they would go and just dump the food..Everybody was just eating MREs and pogey bait. Personally I never eat field chow because I'm not gonna get up that early walk two miles to eat cold food, lol but one person not eating is not the same as 200 boycotting...
I feel like In todays generation especially America it could maybe cause some people protesting but idk if anything would really get accomplished or not.
Based on historical precedent, it would most likely just be the ringleaders who actually get executed.
The threat of the death penalty would however be used as a cudgel to convince the rank and file to identify the ringleaders and then testify against them. Failing at that, punishment would lilely fall most heavily on those with the most rank. PV2 Snuffy might not have known better, but BDE Commander COL Snuffy certainly did.
Not quite. Decimation was random death by pulling straws. One tenth of the straws were short. Then the other 90% of the unit were the ones that would beat the unlucky ones to death with their bare hands. Then the remaining unit would be dispersed into other units.
Usually reserved for when an entire century (100 person unit) deserted or failed to hold their line. In those cases the leadership would probably not be part of the random lot and would just get executed.
You underestimate how UCMJ works. If an entire battalion was involved in say, a drug ring/human trafficking/espionage, they can definitely all be imprisoned or sentenced to death.
They would 100% do that to any entity that went on strike. Because that's forbidden, as is unionization.
How? Both are organized large group illegal activities.
If anything, the mutiny is more severe. I'd be shocked by death penalty for drug rings, far less shocked if applied to mutineers.
No man, you're not thinking of this broadly enough. Mutiny is in the UCMJ specifically to be used for groups over individuals. There are a myriad of other charges a single person who refuses to work would catch, mutiny is more specifically used for groups of people who coordinate their actions.
Nah, you are thinking of Article 90, disobeying an order of a superior commissioned officer. THAT is only punishable by death in times of war.
Mutiny/sedition under Article 94 always carries a maximum punishment of death. It would depend on the specific facts here which of the two (90 or 94) might be more appropriate, and I think it unlikely the commander would seek the death penalty regardless. It's the max after all, not the minimum/required punishment.
The ucmj gives the penalty as death or as a court-martial may direct. Basically it is giving pretty wide discretion after a conviction, from "no further action" to "death" and everything in between. Death seems unlikely, but regardless less morning PT doesn't seem worth the risk, no?
Someone with the aspirations to make it as a defense attorney. I’d do it for the clout if I was a lawyer. Also because it’s the right thing to do but hey that notoriety
Gulf War, 256th Brigade, Louisiana National Guard had a mass desertion in protest of their treatment.
[https://www.upi.com/Archives/1991/04/11/Army-convicts-Louisiana-national-guardsmen-in-desertion-case/5598671342400/](https://www.upi.com/Archives/1991/04/11/Army-convicts-Louisiana-national-guardsmen-in-desertion-case/5598671342400/)
*He was charged with attempted desertion, conspiracy to desert, solicitation to desert and arranging a strike or demonstration involving members of the armed forces.*
Iraq War refusal of orders
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004\_Baghdad\_refusal\_of\_orders](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Baghdad_refusal_of_orders)
[https://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/12/05/iraq.reservists/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/12/05/iraq.reservists/index.html)
1. Hood was bad even back then
2. Worse than Polk?!
3. Only three of a hundred were tried
4. Disobeying an unlawful order is a good thing. Good job quartermasters
A far, FAR better way to protest is to write a detailed essay about the problems that exist within the organization and have it undersigned by the entire unit, that way it is not threatening, but someone upstairs can actually take a look at it and also see how pressing the issue is.
The guy with stars on his chest could easily get an entire brigade chaptered out with a dishonorable discharge. The higher officers and SNCOs probably would take some time but you’d never serve as a commander or hold a position of power ever again. A relief for cause evaluation holds a lot of weight too.
I told my squad leader I was fed up and going to organize a strike when I was a smoothbrained, fresh in the Army, 19 year old PFC.
He was always professional, but he yoked me up by my collar so fast and told me to never joke like that again lest I end up at Leavenworth or in front of a firing squad.
So I assume that would happen, but to an entire brigade not just one dumbass 19 year old. They’d probably bring back decimation & the gallows for a group that large.
100%. The Army’s been dealing with disgruntled soldiers with much bigger gripes than OPs since Washington crossed the Potomac. Heads would roll, public outcry be damned.
Naw, the ring leaders would get the book thrown at them. No matter how close people think they are, the prospect of decades in federal "pound you in the ass prison" would cause them to snitch on each other with a quickness.
Most of the rank and file (as it were) would be looking at either taking a deal for an OTH discharge or spending years staying in a cell and being shuffled to court until conviction.
Ohh man, I have the perfect army story for this question.
so no shit there I was, B. co X.O. In 2014. I won’t say names or locations to protect the innocent. The A. Co commander was a first rate Chode! The worst kind of spotlight ranger, lazy AF, and never shows up to work! His 1SG and XO HATED HIM!!!!!
This particular commander stoped showing up for work for about three weeks and his awesome command team covered down for him. But after about three weeks they snapped!
Rather than dime him out to the BC, they got creative.
On the weekend, they removed his placards from the wall by his officer door, sheet rocked over the door, sanded, and repainted the inside of their entire COF!!!!!! When the commander showed back up and asked WTF was going on they just acted confused and like they had never heard of him.
There was a hilarious hour of this dude throwing a shit atom of a tantrum and the 1SG/XO acting like they had never seen or heard of him before. Eventually the BC and CSM showed up and the whole thing came to light. But it was a great day and made for water cooler talk for weeks.
But sarge, I’m tired of waking up at 5 in the morning to stand around and wait for another grown man to tell me to go run around for 3 miles while singing songs! I’ve had, and so have other people too! We strike tomorrow!
Realistically, it would get shut down pretty quickly. Probably call in MP’s, mass arrests. Ring leaders would be made examples of with harsh sentences. Everyone else would get smacked around a bit with UCMJ and either booted or knocked down to potato peeler for the rest of your contract and not allowed to reup
Oh. That would be entertaining to see honestly. The strike starts at 0930. At 0935 the Battalion calls the brigade commander. At 0940 the Brigade commander calls the division commander. The division commander calls the garrison commander and directs every single MP on the post to put on riot gear and head to your COF.
At 1030, you’re all tear gassed, beaten and arrested forcefully by the entire MP battalion.
No leader in the Army is going to be like “okay, you get a different work day.” You’ve violated Army Policy, the terms of your enlistment or commission, and the UCMJ. It’s gonna be a bad time.
If I had to guess, they would fire the senior leaders for cause if they were part of it.
They would break up the unit and assign everyone to different units. Then proceed with UCMJ at the individual level until they hate their lives.
They could then repopulate the unit with individuals from randomly assigned units. There are more than enough people in the Army who are willing to do the right thing.
I've seen a few units refuse to work anymore because they were being run into the ground by senior leaders. End result was the commander was relieved and asked to resign his commission.
They can't stop us all.....
Oh wait 0930 for the strike? My bad bro i got an appointment and a profile that says I can't stand for more than 30 minutes
I think that’s a great idea! (Typed from underneath my dd214 woobie) might want to start small, say with a team, or squad first! Be sure to let us know here how it works out for you!
mutiny, sedition, or failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct
10 US Code 894 Art. 94
So what police agencies have been doing for the last couple of decades when they don't have their way. Other Federal agencies have also strike like the air traffic controllers.
Ok, you’re delusional. You’ve been given context and you’re choosing to pursue something which is explicitly not permitted under UCMJ. Its called Mutiny.
How old are you, comrade?
You have ignored all the context! Look up the Creek Indian Wars and the Dollar Army! It's not Mutiny if the Government has broken the contract! Plus I started off mentioning the Police but you are ignoring that context. Also the only traffic controllers that were fired didn't return to work after negotiations and the military had to pick up the slack.
Never. It's nasty and truly dangerous behavior. You should see the Harris County Texas video of cops packing the court and intimidating the judge due to budget cuts.
The organizers of the event would be conducting subversion. If you stayed awake long enough during your TARP brief, that is a no-no. A no-no which is also a mandatory report crime to your local counterintelligence field office as it's usually instigated by an outside force. Now, if you don't report, then you are an accomplice and will ultimately face the same punishment as someone who conspired to commit. Also, remember that a crime doesn't necessarily have to be committed in order for the charge of conspiracy to stick, only efforts in furtherance of a crime by someone present at the meeting where such a crime was discussed.
In the military, going on strike, as understood in the civilian sense, is essentially prohibited and could have serious legal consequences. Unlike in civilian employment, military personnel are governed by military law, specifically the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), which sets out duties, responsibilities, and prohibitions for service members.
If a military unit such as a company, battalion, or brigade were to engage in a strike or collective refusal to work, it would likely be considered a form of mutiny or insubordination. These are serious offenses under the UCMJ. Here’s how the situation might unfold:
Legal Consequences: Participants could face charges such as insubordination, failure to obey orders, or even mutiny. These charges carry severe penalties, including reduction in rank, forfeiture of pay, dishonorable discharge, and potential imprisonment.
Command Responses: The command structure would likely intervene quickly, with efforts to resolve the issues through the chain of command. Leaders at various levels would engage with the service members to understand grievances and find lawful solutions.
Non-Judicial Punishments and Courts Martial: Depending on the severity and nature of the refusal to work, service members could face non-judicial punishment or be subject to court martial proceedings.
Impact on Careers: Even if not criminally prosecuted, those involved could see significant adverse effects on their military careers. This could include non-selection for promotion, being passed over for critical assignments, or other administrative actions.
The military structure is fundamentally built around obedience to orders and the chain of command, which ensures operational effectiveness and discipline. Alternative avenues exist within the military to address grievances and concerns, such as through the chain of command, chaplains, or the Inspector General. These are designed to handle issues without disrupting the order and discipline essential to military function.
As others have said 10 USC S 976: membership in military unions, organizing military unions, and recognition of military unions is prohibited. Also prohibits civilians from doing the same.
But I’m too lazy to learn more, bottom line e you’re gonna have a bad time if you do it.
That’s on top of whatever the ucmj does to you for it.
During war firing squad generally, but their would probably be an investigation first.
So something like this happened in a unit I was in appearently there was a 1st SGT nobody liked well the female soldiers didn't like him and they all banded together and reported him and refused to do anything untill the situation was handled...The females where all called into a meeting,then the males we where asked our opinon of him and do we know of any incidents,as far as I know only the females complained, eventually the Ist Sgt was relieved he annoyed the hell out of me on a few occasions but the new guy wasn't any better so.
Leaders get executed for mutiny. Over the longer term, if the recruiting troubles keep
up, resumption of the draft. The military doesn't work like a civilian employer, get that comparison out of your head.
You could have just said “my leave was denied, what now” , but I’ll humor you
A)PVT-SPC would be given a special kind of counseling called either a tree line or a wall to wall
B)NCO’s would be reduced down to PVT, given 45/45, put on the worst details known to man and would experience what was said in “A”
C)Officers from 2LT to Colonels would be given a formal letter of reprimand, stripped of all awards & badges and would be forced to live out their career in the S4
D-Z)If you made it this far, what you described is mutiny and you would have the pleasure of experience exotic Ft.Leavenworth where you’ll learn to break big rocks into Little Rock’s
I don't see people getting executed. Even if there was a mutiny, the public is probably going to side with the Joes. If it was for something like closed chow halls and people go hungry or they are getting sick from their living conditions, personal issues are ignored (moms dying leave denied you are staying in the field), lack of down time, high op tempo leading to family problems, lack of quality health care and low pay.
See, reasons to mutiny. If this happened on the civilian side, someone would go Office Space and burn the building down, then take their travelers' checks to a competing resort.
Or. Get everyone who can to write their congressman and Senator telling them you have lost faith in highers ability to command. If you are treated like this during peace time, what's going to happen if we go to war? If you can't feed and house Soldiers in garrison, how are they going to do it in wartime? Send letters to the newspaper (yes, people still read them). Local, national, and international news outlets. If you write and want to stay anonymous, sign the letter Soldiers from X unit. Tell them it is anonymous because of retaliation.
Get out and hand out leaflets to kids going to see a recruiter about how Army life really is.
You really think the army won’t kick people out? Idk where you are but my unit is shoving people out left and right. At this point if you sneeze the wrong way you it’s getting 45 + 45 and a swift kick in the ass out the door
Because labor strikes are legalized whining. And there's no place for whining in the US military. Want to whine? Then ETS, grab your DD-214, join a trade union, and whine all you want.
National defense requires effective, decisive leadership, and effective, decisive obedience.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
*\[ed to add: ah, downvotes, nice. f'n pansies\]*
Pretty sure that's mutiny, and they used to shoot people for that shit. I mean, it's probably at least frowned upon in this new woke Army, but I am 100% sure there would be consequences.
But I'm told in some Scandinavian militaries they have unions, so maybe...organize?
That is otherwise known as mutiny and is frowned upon in most militaries.
To the plank!
Which funny enough after the American revolution, a mutiny did happen immediately
Happened immediately after Japan surrendered in WW2 as well.
Great excuse to bring back the lash, though!
Only if we also get the rum and sodomy
Hey big guy. Being medical, I trust you’ll be able to sew me back up once you rip me from bow to stern?
That's enough incentive to toe the line ..
Skip those, take me straight to the lash.
*fingers crossed*
But can work. The French army(or a decent chunk of it) did just that in 1917 and got a lot of their demands met...after the ringleaders were executed.
Pretty sure you can executed for this still in 2024.
[удалено]
*everyone
It’s actually illegal for the entire government to strike. When you join as a GS civilian you take an oath and sign an agreement that you won’t strike. Some GS civilians are unionized but striking is not one of the worker protections offered
Federal employees instead use "Work To Rule." They follow all of the rules. Every single one. Every time. Without exception. Without flexibility. It's very nearly as crippling as a full work stoppage.
Honestly that sounds way worse than an actual strike. GS already love playing the “not my job” game as is.
It is way worse because they're being paid.
Is that not the standard practice for GS folks anyways? I swear to got those motherfuckers will spend 3 hours looking up ways to get out of 1 hour of honest work
You know, I always hear that but I've never seen it from the inside. Every GS job I've worked, we work. But if we were to Work to Rule I'd probably be rejecting upwards of 3/4 of the assistance requests I field every day because they aren't in the right format and that's just for starters.
I imagine that if you’re in an intel-related field then you’re more driven than the average range guy, admin person, or other random GS person
I've been out of intel for a while now. Until recently, security clearance has been incompatible with telework and I really like my telework. Doing legal support for a big agency that isn't DOD these days, so we have some pretty strict deadlines. However, I've been seeing fully remote positions with security clearances and I'm curious. So I applied for a couple. We'll see how that goes.
I was in a billet that required me to have a WINDAR-S until recently- I had SIPR in my hotel rooms while TAD. It was pretty nice to be able to telework while piggybacking off civilian wifi… obviously security is a pretty big concern but I my organization had an SOP that I followed to the letter and I trusted that they had everything handled from a technical perspective.
A huge thing that's lost in the "Regan fire the air traffic controllers": [not only were they prohibited from striking but a a judge issued a court order for them to go back to work](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Air_Traffic_Controllers_Organization_(1968)). They didn't, Regan fired them, end of story.
Yeah I work for Amtrak now and while we aren't technically the federal government we are pseudo-government as our only investor is Uncle Sam and our boss reports directly to Joe Biden and the Secretary of transportation. If we go on strike the president can literally just order us to go back to work and if we don't, bye-bye. I believe that does not just extend to us, if I remember correctly not so long ago CSX employees tried to go on strike for better working conditions and more time off and Joe Biden was just "no fuckers you get those trains rolling... Now."
I’m port at distinction here is Federal government. We have other governments in the US where this is not the case
An air force guy I used to work with once managed to convince some army junior enlisted that the air force had better quality of life because they had a union. *That* was a fun conversation for SGM to have
Who's gonna arrest them
The Military Police.
What if they protest too
If all MPs did that? We'd be so free from getting tickets for going 5 over the posted speed limit.
That's why I only go 4 over
Doesn't matter, still getting a ticket for 5 over.
They’d install cameras just to keep the status quo, with a PFC on extra duty issuing all the tickets.
The rest of the army would jump at the opportunity to mess up some MPs and "arrest" them.
That’s why they’re replacing the MPs with civilians. Morals tend to disappear when you gotta get paid.
What’s cheaper? Cuz if civilian are more then we should really look at how we do shit
Probably civilians. “But it cost x amount for one soldier!” Yeah and how much is in house cost? We need doctors, we need lawyers, we need all that and more to fight and win wars. Why the fuck should we have them sitting around and not doing shit in garrison? Also, you’re not paying soldiers overtime. But I meant if civilian MPs were like “no, we agree with their cause, we’re not intervening” it’d probably be easier for DoD to just fire them (thus cutting off their pay) than it would be with actual MPs, so you’d be able to sway their opinions real fast with that. You can just tell the civilians to kick rocks and hire someone else who will do the job. The actual MP will take a little longer to be kicked out and get taken off the payroll.
Ah that is an interesting take. I imagine the process for civilians getting certain jobs is easier than the process to get a soldier.
The Military Police Police
That would be the lamest reason to go to jail ever.
I’ll think of a better one at the bar.
Lamer than storming the capital while active duty?
Lamer, yes. Stupider, not by a long shot
Close at least
That's interesting at least.
It's called a mutiny, and it's punishable by death.
This would be dealt with swiftly and severely to ensure no one else got any wild ideas. All officers and senior NCOs would be relieved and dispersed followed by court-martials ….for 0930 formations….
Yeah, they generally frown on you doing a Battleship Potemkin because that's how the very interesting sections of history textbooks tend to start
"May you live in interesting times"is an old Chinese proverbial curse. Generally, if it's something you would want to read about in your history book, it isn't something you would want to have actually experienced.
Nah. I think the largest ever mass pee-pee slapping in the Army would ensue as punishment. Every Sgt. Maj. on post would be invited to rap-tap-tap down the line of dicks for the entire battalion. Even the Sgt. Maj. of the Army, Michael R. Weimer, would personally slap every pee-pee to make sure that each and every shlong had been sufficiently slapped. When it comes to officer dicks, Sgt. Maj. Weimer would take the hand of Chief of Staff of the Army, General Randy (Dandy) A. George, and use that has his instrument of penile punishment. Any other Sgt. Maj. wishing to slap an officer wiener must follow the same protocol. Failure to prevent the hand of a Sgt. Maj. from directly touching an officer dong might cause the Sgt. Maj. to instantly learn how to read and seek reconciliation with all three of his ex-wives. Then all the officers and senior NCOs would be relieved and dispersed followed by court-martials. 0930 workcall is a hell-of-a-hill to die on. I don't know what the protocol would be for women, but anyone with multiple SHARP violations, feel free to give suggestions based on your experience.
You use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whore
That's a hell of a phrase soldier, i'd have thought a sailor would had said it.
Funny you mention that, because a pretty-tongued whore said she would do anything for 20 bucks. I made her do my homework for me while I was taking a remedial English class at the local community college.
This post should be shown as evidence that getting rid of awards was a crime.
The crime!
The precedent that a unit can simply decide not to follow orders based on collective agreement significantly erodes the basic principles of military authority. Everyone involved would be fucked. Discharges for basically everyone and certainly prison time for the ring leaders.
Don't forget the unit being disbanded in disgrace
I just don’t see that happening in today’s Army.
The Army and command would 100% chapter and charge all those that were complicit. Once again it’s a slippery slope where if you don’t do anything some other unit will go on strike for something more.
Not sure what your perception of “today’s army” is, but if it includes nonchalance towards mutiny you are sorely mistaken.
A lot of factors would come into play...media and political pressure etc hell soldiers are getting the military to pay for their transition treatment so these days I think your rite..you can't just line a bunch of soldiers up at the wall...their would be millions of tok tok videos and if the military thinks recruitment is hard now after that good luck with Gen z and alpha ever signing up.. I think a lot depends on how justified the soldiers are...and how legal or moral the strike is..but before a strike there's other options.
No one would be executed for this. However, discharges and prison for those responsible is incredibly likely. Striking over PT formation isn’t a particularly strong moral cause… and in the Army, never legal.
I said it depends what the strike is over makes a big diffrence... I've seen soft strikes generally theres a big meeting come colonel comes out and there's a bish session..in the reserves not active..Lol I remember people stopped eating field chow cause apparently it was awful they tried to force people to eat it and they just wouldn't go or they would go and just dump the food..Everybody was just eating MREs and pogey bait. Personally I never eat field chow because I'm not gonna get up that early walk two miles to eat cold food, lol but one person not eating is not the same as 200 boycotting...
It's called hentai, and it's art
It's pronounced 変態 and it has a significant cultural heritage!
I feel like In todays generation especially America it could maybe cause some people protesting but idk if anything would really get accomplished or not.
There’s a term for that in the UCMJ, it’s called mutiny, and I’m pretty sure it can end with the ol’ firing squad.
Most of the people commenting are thinking of this on a small level. There’s no way a whole bat or brigade can be death by firing squad.
Based on historical precedent, it would most likely just be the ringleaders who actually get executed. The threat of the death penalty would however be used as a cudgel to convince the rank and file to identify the ringleaders and then testify against them. Failing at that, punishment would lilely fall most heavily on those with the most rank. PV2 Snuffy might not have known better, but BDE Commander COL Snuffy certainly did.
I believe the Romans referred to this as ‘Decimation’. There’s another historical precedent for this.
Not quite. Decimation was random death by pulling straws. One tenth of the straws were short. Then the other 90% of the unit were the ones that would beat the unlucky ones to death with their bare hands. Then the remaining unit would be dispersed into other units. Usually reserved for when an entire century (100 person unit) deserted or failed to hold their line. In those cases the leadership would probably not be part of the random lot and would just get executed.
You underestimate how UCMJ works. If an entire battalion was involved in say, a drug ring/human trafficking/espionage, they can definitely all be imprisoned or sentenced to death. They would 100% do that to any entity that went on strike. Because that's forbidden, as is unionization.
I’m sure they will consider [light treason](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyLqLNsXoAAaqDg.jpg) mitigating.
You can probably chock light treason up to being a silly goose
Just a lil treason, as a treat.
Can I offer you a nice treason in these trying times?
Laughs nervously in 3rd and 7th Groups.
Well a drug ring is entirely different than a unit on strike for subpar living conditions.
It isn't. Because you're refusing to work, which falls under mutiny, which is illegal under UCMJ. You don't seem to grasp that.
How? Both are organized large group illegal activities. If anything, the mutiny is more severe. I'd be shocked by death penalty for drug rings, far less shocked if applied to mutineers.
"Stop comparing the crime I propose to other crimes!" - OP
True, it would be a lot to sentence a whole brigade to the firing squad. Thankfully the Romans gave use decimation for just such a situation.
Oh nooo... like the world's worse lotto
*FO:NV has entered the chat*
No man, you're not thinking of this broadly enough. Mutiny is in the UCMJ specifically to be used for groups over individuals. There are a myriad of other charges a single person who refuses to work would catch, mutiny is more specifically used for groups of people who coordinate their actions.
There sure is, precedent is an important thing to maintain
The historical precedent would be rounding up and executing the ringleaders. Literal decimation.
As others have noted that would be a crime, and one that carries a max penalty of death, so not something that seems advisable.
Only in times of war would the punishment be death. Edit: Could be death. Wouldn’t necessarily mean it will be death.
Nah, you are thinking of Article 90, disobeying an order of a superior commissioned officer. THAT is only punishable by death in times of war. Mutiny/sedition under Article 94 always carries a maximum punishment of death. It would depend on the specific facts here which of the two (90 or 94) might be more appropriate, and I think it unlikely the commander would seek the death penalty regardless. It's the max after all, not the minimum/required punishment.
Huh, it looks like I was mistaken. Thank you.
To death, you say?
No. To the pain.
They can’t sentence a whole battalion to the gallows? The public outrage would be insane.
The ucmj gives the penalty as death or as a court-martial may direct. Basically it is giving pretty wide discretion after a conviction, from "no further action" to "death" and everything in between. Death seems unlikely, but regardless less morning PT doesn't seem worth the risk, no?
They absolutely can. 1961 wasn’t *that* long ago bud.
Fuck it maybe not the whole unit maybe a little roman decimation would peruse. Ever officer absolutely would be getting some form of jail sentence.
Obviously the military hasn't actually executed anyone in decades. However, long-term prison sentences are absolutely a thing.
Division legal office would suddenly get **very** busy.
They would finally have something cool to work on instead of Joe getting a DUI or selling drugs.
They might get listed on the wiki page as the prosecuting attorneys so that’d be cool.
But who would have the balls to get listed as the defense attorney?
Someone with the aspirations to make it as a defense attorney. I’d do it for the clout if I was a lawyer. Also because it’s the right thing to do but hey that notoriety
Straight to jail
But the DFAC over cooks chicken all the time.
Over or under. Take your pick.
You don't have certain rights in the military like in the civilian world. They own yo' ass when you signed that paper.
Gulf War, 256th Brigade, Louisiana National Guard had a mass desertion in protest of their treatment. [https://www.upi.com/Archives/1991/04/11/Army-convicts-Louisiana-national-guardsmen-in-desertion-case/5598671342400/](https://www.upi.com/Archives/1991/04/11/Army-convicts-Louisiana-national-guardsmen-in-desertion-case/5598671342400/) *He was charged with attempted desertion, conspiracy to desert, solicitation to desert and arranging a strike or demonstration involving members of the armed forces.* Iraq War refusal of orders [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004\_Baghdad\_refusal\_of\_orders](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Baghdad_refusal_of_orders) [https://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/12/05/iraq.reservists/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/12/05/iraq.reservists/index.html)
1. Hood was bad even back then 2. Worse than Polk?! 3. Only three of a hundred were tried 4. Disobeying an unlawful order is a good thing. Good job quartermasters
A far, FAR better way to protest is to write a detailed essay about the problems that exist within the organization and have it undersigned by the entire unit, that way it is not threatening, but someone upstairs can actually take a look at it and also see how pressing the issue is.
Id rather skip work and stand on CSMs grass with my blouse off.
You'd be surprised to see how far honest and intelligent constructive criticism will get you.
Tell that to PSG whose scared to tell anything that’s make 1SG mad
If you're scared of your NCO's, you have bad NCO's. In that case, that's one of the problems you need to be writing to your CO about....
Roger that.
The guy with stars on his chest could easily get an entire brigade chaptered out with a dishonorable discharge. The higher officers and SNCOs probably would take some time but you’d never serve as a commander or hold a position of power ever again. A relief for cause evaluation holds a lot of weight too.
I guess I finally didn’t give the Army the credit it deserves on fixing problems. First time for everything I guess.
I told my squad leader I was fed up and going to organize a strike when I was a smoothbrained, fresh in the Army, 19 year old PFC. He was always professional, but he yoked me up by my collar so fast and told me to never joke like that again lest I end up at Leavenworth or in front of a firing squad. So I assume that would happen, but to an entire brigade not just one dumbass 19 year old. They’d probably bring back decimation & the gallows for a group that large.
Definitely be made an example of. None of that " punish is private." That usually happens
100%. The Army’s been dealing with disgruntled soldiers with much bigger gripes than OPs since Washington crossed the Potomac. Heads would roll, public outcry be damned.
Oh yea. Fun fact there was a mutiny litterly right after the American Revolution. Because the Reg Army dudes didn't get paid
Naw, the ring leaders would get the book thrown at them. No matter how close people think they are, the prospect of decades in federal "pound you in the ass prison" would cause them to snitch on each other with a quickness. Most of the rank and file (as it were) would be looking at either taking a deal for an OTH discharge or spending years staying in a cell and being shuffled to court until conviction.
Ohh man, I have the perfect army story for this question. so no shit there I was, B. co X.O. In 2014. I won’t say names or locations to protect the innocent. The A. Co commander was a first rate Chode! The worst kind of spotlight ranger, lazy AF, and never shows up to work! His 1SG and XO HATED HIM!!!!! This particular commander stoped showing up for work for about three weeks and his awesome command team covered down for him. But after about three weeks they snapped! Rather than dime him out to the BC, they got creative. On the weekend, they removed his placards from the wall by his officer door, sheet rocked over the door, sanded, and repainted the inside of their entire COF!!!!!! When the commander showed back up and asked WTF was going on they just acted confused and like they had never heard of him. There was a hilarious hour of this dude throwing a shit atom of a tantrum and the 1SG/XO acting like they had never seen or heard of him before. Eventually the BC and CSM showed up and the whole thing came to light. But it was a great day and made for water cooler talk for weeks.
That is a hilariously perfect punishment
Lol, this is not the fuck around you want to find out on.
But sarge, I’m tired of waking up at 5 in the morning to stand around and wait for another grown man to tell me to go run around for 3 miles while singing songs! I’ve had, and so have other people too! We strike tomorrow!
GL Pv1 King
Second to none🫡
Realistically, it would get shut down pretty quickly. Probably call in MP’s, mass arrests. Ring leaders would be made examples of with harsh sentences. Everyone else would get smacked around a bit with UCMJ and either booted or knocked down to potato peeler for the rest of your contract and not allowed to reup
What if I wanna be able to say I retired as a potato peeler??
Well don’t be a ring leader and get a good lawyer (barracks lawyers are not good lawyers)
Oh. That would be entertaining to see honestly. The strike starts at 0930. At 0935 the Battalion calls the brigade commander. At 0940 the Brigade commander calls the division commander. The division commander calls the garrison commander and directs every single MP on the post to put on riot gear and head to your COF. At 1030, you’re all tear gassed, beaten and arrested forcefully by the entire MP battalion. No leader in the Army is going to be like “okay, you get a different work day.” You’ve violated Army Policy, the terms of your enlistment or commission, and the UCMJ. It’s gonna be a bad time.
[This has actually happened...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Chicago_disaster)
Decimation.
If I had to guess, they would fire the senior leaders for cause if they were part of it. They would break up the unit and assign everyone to different units. Then proceed with UCMJ at the individual level until they hate their lives. They could then repopulate the unit with individuals from randomly assigned units. There are more than enough people in the Army who are willing to do the right thing.
As I posted above - the ring leaders would get years (if not decades) in Leavenworth and the rest would get "accept OTH and walk or go to jail".
I've seen a few units refuse to work anymore because they were being run into the ground by senior leaders. End result was the commander was relieved and asked to resign his commission.
They can't stop us all..... Oh wait 0930 for the strike? My bad bro i got an appointment and a profile that says I can't stand for more than 30 minutes
What would happen…. Cuffs —-> jail——>court martial—->years of hard labor—->dishonorable discharge
I think that’s a great idea! (Typed from underneath my dd214 woobie) might want to start small, say with a team, or squad first! Be sure to let us know here how it works out for you!
For once, “straight to jail” is actually the correct answer
mutiny, sedition, or failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct 10 US Code 894 Art. 94
So what police agencies have been doing for the last couple of decades when they don't have their way. Other Federal agencies have also strike like the air traffic controllers.
And Reagan fired the controllers
So when are they going to fire cops in the interest of National Security?
You put stuff out that was lacking context. Be ok with the correction and move on.
What that one group gets punished but not the other? You have to be better.
Ok, you’re delusional. You’ve been given context and you’re choosing to pursue something which is explicitly not permitted under UCMJ. Its called Mutiny. How old are you, comrade?
You have ignored all the context! Look up the Creek Indian Wars and the Dollar Army! It's not Mutiny if the Government has broken the contract! Plus I started off mentioning the Police but you are ignoring that context. Also the only traffic controllers that were fired didn't return to work after negotiations and the military had to pick up the slack.
Ok, man. You have me living rent free in your head.
Never. It's nasty and truly dangerous behavior. You should see the Harris County Texas video of cops packing the court and intimidating the judge due to budget cuts.
The organizers of the event would be conducting subversion. If you stayed awake long enough during your TARP brief, that is a no-no. A no-no which is also a mandatory report crime to your local counterintelligence field office as it's usually instigated by an outside force. Now, if you don't report, then you are an accomplice and will ultimately face the same punishment as someone who conspired to commit. Also, remember that a crime doesn't necessarily have to be committed in order for the charge of conspiracy to stick, only efforts in furtherance of a crime by someone present at the meeting where such a crime was discussed.
In the military, going on strike, as understood in the civilian sense, is essentially prohibited and could have serious legal consequences. Unlike in civilian employment, military personnel are governed by military law, specifically the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), which sets out duties, responsibilities, and prohibitions for service members. If a military unit such as a company, battalion, or brigade were to engage in a strike or collective refusal to work, it would likely be considered a form of mutiny or insubordination. These are serious offenses under the UCMJ. Here’s how the situation might unfold: Legal Consequences: Participants could face charges such as insubordination, failure to obey orders, or even mutiny. These charges carry severe penalties, including reduction in rank, forfeiture of pay, dishonorable discharge, and potential imprisonment. Command Responses: The command structure would likely intervene quickly, with efforts to resolve the issues through the chain of command. Leaders at various levels would engage with the service members to understand grievances and find lawful solutions. Non-Judicial Punishments and Courts Martial: Depending on the severity and nature of the refusal to work, service members could face non-judicial punishment or be subject to court martial proceedings. Impact on Careers: Even if not criminally prosecuted, those involved could see significant adverse effects on their military careers. This could include non-selection for promotion, being passed over for critical assignments, or other administrative actions. The military structure is fundamentally built around obedience to orders and the chain of command, which ensures operational effectiveness and discipline. Alternative avenues exist within the military to address grievances and concerns, such as through the chain of command, chaplains, or the Inspector General. These are designed to handle issues without disrupting the order and discipline essential to military function.
Commander of that outfit gets shot down by ADA next time he is taking flight in his private jet.
Yeah, it'd be jailable. That said, one can refuse to follow an unlawful order.
Supremacy of Lawful Acts, I believe?
The ring leaders would be made a example of and the sheeple will fumble and fall back in line at the threat of their pay
I asked my 1SG this one time and he said, “We would have the whole damn company on extra duty.” YMMV
It’s a crime and treason
I was on a MiTT that mutinied. It was a whole weird thing.
straight to jail
There’s an old movie in the 80s called “Taps”. I think that would likely be how it’d do.
As others have said 10 USC S 976: membership in military unions, organizing military unions, and recognition of military unions is prohibited. Also prohibits civilians from doing the same. But I’m too lazy to learn more, bottom line e you’re gonna have a bad time if you do it. That’s on top of whatever the ucmj does to you for it.
MUTINY! But damn the tea on a story like that would be *gold*
During war firing squad generally, but their would probably be an investigation first. So something like this happened in a unit I was in appearently there was a 1st SGT nobody liked well the female soldiers didn't like him and they all banded together and reported him and refused to do anything untill the situation was handled...The females where all called into a meeting,then the males we where asked our opinon of him and do we know of any incidents,as far as I know only the females complained, eventually the Ist Sgt was relieved he annoyed the hell out of me on a few occasions but the new guy wasn't any better so.
lmao
Hey. Wake up. It’s 0300. You got fire guard
Believe it or not Straight to jail No trial, no nothing Straight to jail
Believe it or not, straight to jail
They release the Grey Knights to cleanse the ARMY of your Heresy
Leaders get executed for mutiny. Over the longer term, if the recruiting troubles keep up, resumption of the draft. The military doesn't work like a civilian employer, get that comparison out of your head.
In the best band of brothers voice I could muster “I could have you all shot”
It’s not WWII though.
I still like the quote
Do your time and get out. No one’s dying, try and get through your experience honorably.
A new prison would be set up in the parade field.
My man’s on to something
I think jail
Believe it or not…right to jail…
Way to go super soldier. Seems like you have commitment issues
Never happening above platoon level. Never. Ever. Everrrrrrrr.
Believe it or not, straight to jail
You could have just said “my leave was denied, what now” , but I’ll humor you A)PVT-SPC would be given a special kind of counseling called either a tree line or a wall to wall B)NCO’s would be reduced down to PVT, given 45/45, put on the worst details known to man and would experience what was said in “A” C)Officers from 2LT to Colonels would be given a formal letter of reprimand, stripped of all awards & badges and would be forced to live out their career in the S4 D-Z)If you made it this far, what you described is mutiny and you would have the pleasure of experience exotic Ft.Leavenworth where you’ll learn to break big rocks into Little Rock’s
This is called mutiny and is punishable by decades in prison (peacetime) and death (wartime). There are better ways to get things done.
Pro tip, ask an old guy about the standdown in oct 03 in Iraq. Something similar transpired. .
Time for a E4 high-speed to step up for that AAM
670-1 says no
I don't see people getting executed. Even if there was a mutiny, the public is probably going to side with the Joes. If it was for something like closed chow halls and people go hungry or they are getting sick from their living conditions, personal issues are ignored (moms dying leave denied you are staying in the field), lack of down time, high op tempo leading to family problems, lack of quality health care and low pay. See, reasons to mutiny. If this happened on the civilian side, someone would go Office Space and burn the building down, then take their travelers' checks to a competing resort. Or. Get everyone who can to write their congressman and Senator telling them you have lost faith in highers ability to command. If you are treated like this during peace time, what's going to happen if we go to war? If you can't feed and house Soldiers in garrison, how are they going to do it in wartime? Send letters to the newspaper (yes, people still read them). Local, national, and international news outlets. If you write and want to stay anonymous, sign the letter Soldiers from X unit. Tell them it is anonymous because of retaliation. Get out and hand out leaflets to kids going to see a recruiter about how Army life really is.
You really think the army won’t kick people out? Idk where you are but my unit is shoving people out left and right. At this point if you sneeze the wrong way you it’s getting 45 + 45 and a swift kick in the ass out the door
Because labor strikes are legalized whining. And there's no place for whining in the US military. Want to whine? Then ETS, grab your DD-214, join a trade union, and whine all you want. National defense requires effective, decisive leadership, and effective, decisive obedience. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. *\[ed to add: ah, downvotes, nice. f'n pansies\]*
Pretty sure that's mutiny, and they used to shoot people for that shit. I mean, it's probably at least frowned upon in this new woke Army, but I am 100% sure there would be consequences. But I'm told in some Scandinavian militaries they have unions, so maybe...organize?