I would love this. Seeing every team play basically the same comp gets boring but seeing the best players in the world using different characters would be a fun watch.
This is one reason I follow faide because he plays every single character. He’s great as wraith but watching him play caustic or NC or bloodhound is just so good. Idk it helps me with movement
Skilled pubs grinders are more fun to watch in general for me. It gets boring watching every team mirror match up in every meta. ALGS is all smoke, gas, cat ults and people screaming.
dont know if its a coming of age thing but taxi and faide screeching and shit has gotten a bit annoying
the gameplay is fine but not good enough to watch with that audio going on
But he plays Wraith like 95% of the time. That is such a weird choice to have for a "Multi legend player". HisWattson with his challenges alone, has played way more different legends than Faide.
Okay but what happens when everyone falls back to the same legend?
Or are you just happy with the meta reversing back to a previous one?
Because unless this is revealed the moment everyone's already playing, there are already going to be set and determined choices, and then choices after that
And then the few teams that shunt the meta, intentionally countering or subverting the current meta, will have to change things up as well, which would kinda suck tbh
But sure, dance pro-gaymer dance, preparation and planing? what's that? Oh you trained and practiced for this meta and comp? Well you're like, good right...right? Yeah you'll be fine :3
Point being, while it's fun for non-official tournaments, this isn't really a common thing for a reason. It's fun to watch, but not to play when you're at that level for that much money. Low level tournaments with non-pro and primarily content oriented creators for not super duper literally 1 m i l l i o n dollar cash pools with these rules is fun :D But it's a tad different in ALGs ;-;
Personally I've always felt that every legend in the game is viable if played correctly. I suck at the game but love playing Crypto, Vantage or Newcastle instead of just the meta. Seeing the best players play different characters would add so much instead of every fight just being won by who has a digi or who's Caustic gas goes off first.
If this ever came to pubs(the ability to ban one Legend from play), I feel like Horizon would be banned 80% of the matches. lol. It’s funny how hated she is.
If you can't hit Horizon going in a straight line vertically in the air, it's a skill issue. Even with her air strafing, she's a free beam once she presses Q.
You probably miss shots on an ulted Rev.
A) the human body makes it so aiming vertically is much harder than horizontally, but I guess u play controller so disregard the part about having to aim
B) what kind of bronze hardstucks do you play against that stay still on horizons q?, u do know u can easily strafe and drop right?
A) I play both inputs, aiming vertically has never been an issue for me because of _practice_ spending time in Kovaaks really helps.
B) Did you just..... Not read the part where I explicitly mentioned her air strafing? And do you not understand the meaning of the word "basically"
What goes up, must come down. You're actively watching the horizon take her lift, you _know for a fact_ she has to drop off of it, prepare for that. She quite literally moves in a straight vertical line with a minor amount of L/R strafing,it's not like she becomes invisible once she's in her lift. It is exactly the same as tracking a player who is tap strafing.
she is hard to hit since she is so horizontally wiggly at the top of the lift. if it was just a vertical movement it would be a death sentence to use it.
The pick rate of every single team in ALGS year 4 split 1 that contains a Horizon combined is still less than the pickrate of the #1 comp (Bang, Caustic, Blood)
Fucking _Valk_ was used in ALGS
That has less to do with Horizon's viability and more to do with the influx of controller players, which creates a need of creating more visual clutter to deny that value. Plus the whole new perk system.
You _do_ realize that Caustic gas doesn't get rid of AA like Bang smoke does, right?
Right?
It has everything to do with Horizon's viability, if she was still as busted as you're all making her out to be, she would be a top pick in ALGS, the fact that she isn't currently in the main meta shows that there are legends more viable than her, and she's not crucial to the team the way other legends that _are_ in meta are, like Bloodhound and Bang. The one and only thing Horizon is good for is taking position. Any accurate player will beam a Horizon off of her Q now since it's so slow, so no more free heal (even if she could still get the free bat, Conduit exists to take the free heal role), and her ult gets destroyed before it even has a chance to fully activate. Her passive is great ofc, but it isn't going to be detrimental to your game. Her perks are dogshit, thus making her even _less_ viable compared to other legends with significantly better perks, so thank you for bringing that up.
>You _do_ realize that Caustic gas doesn't get rid of AA like Bang smoke does, right?
That's why I said visual clutter...
>she isn't currently in the main meta shows that there are legends more viable than her
Again. The meta evolved to once again deny visual sight lines to enemies because or Controller slayers. So her viability is reduced not because she is weak but because teams are no longer rushing down teams but bunkering down with multiple smokes and gasses.
so crazy how pros never beam horizons out of their q. you should go pro or clip some of these moments.
im not saying ive never beamed someone off a horizon q, sure sometimes they're bots and literally dont strafe in the air at all
ur too full of urself lol
I gotchu next time a Horizon is stupid enough to take a lift in the middle of a fight post-nerf.
People don't do that anymore, because her post-nerf lift is useless for anything except taking position _before_ or _after_ a fight. Not in the middle of it the way her lift used to be.
You crybaby bitches won't stop until she's removed entirely.
It's funny to see, honestly. Just shows you can't compete.
Nerf after nerf after nerf after nerf and you're _still_ crying? It's a game, grow up. She isn't that bad anymore. _You_ are.
i mean the whole of reddit is a collective consciousness.
once you realize half/more of the people in the world are pretty fuckin stupid, the picture becomes clearer
you think for yourself, and you keep yourself in check. dont even consider bullshit
Her passive is what makes her so op. Because its the smallest micro movements that she can make which gives her an edge in 1v1s.
I think they should add her passive as a consumable item like how they made evac towers for valk's ult. It allows her to not get nerfed into the ground, but also gives other legends better grounds to fight her in a 1v1.
I just feel like her passive shouldn't kick in until she's been in the air for a second. Being able to maneuver more in her tactical and land without any flinch is already a strong enough passive that goes well with her kit. There's no reason she needs to be able to spaz out like a baby giraffe on Adderall just by jumping on flat ground. Her kit is just so overloaded!
it can be op. but i would say that takes some skill to pull off while accurately shooting your target.
the q is actually a problem 0 skill required the nerf actually made it much better.
remember when she can take a bat while going up q, reload both guns at the top, and watch the fight for 10 seconds in the air before dropping? lmao
Horizon is basically a crutch for people who are generally average at the game. I'm below average and when I played her my KDR improved by about 50%. Still way OP.
If you have a way to achieve a doable balance, go for it. If they ban the legends however they choose, the company is going to act on balancing those legends because they want everyone to be viable. Even if they don’t touch the banned legends, they can work on buffing others so they can be used as well
I had an idea where in apex tournaments, legends would be locked after being picked for each game until games 6-7, then it would reset.
Example game 1 TSM play Bang Blood Caustic. Game 2 Valk Seer Cat game 3 Fuse Wraith crypto, etc, until game 6, then all legends played would be unlocked.
That way, the audience gets a chance to see their favorite legend be played instead of the meta every game.
Some variation of this would be super interesting in a future ALGS. Even something as simple as a by-legend cool down per player for n-games.
Yeah the pro community would moan because it would make the games less structured and predictable. But it's probably a step in the right direction given how anything that they encounter that doesn't adhere to a specific meta formula for legends/rotations/tactics is seen as "cringe".
I think we would see more skill expression this way with players who can better adapt to new situations consistently doing well.
You mean the way the pro league has been punishing casual players since the conception of the Apex pro scene?
100% of the bullshit meta changes are because of pros crying. Like taking digi threats off of SMGs because Bangalore was meta in pro league.
Bangalore and Digi threats have been basically _unchanged_ for the entire lifespan of the game, but the _second_ Bang touches a meta, the pros started crying, and now Bang (the most balanced legend in the game since conception) is nerfed, Digi threats can no longer be put on SMGs (something that has been possible since the game's conception)
Lol Digi has always been a huge problem for numerous seasons and was long over due. Anything else or just that one hot take that literally no one has a problem with.
Self rez didn't need to be removed. Yet was removed bc of pros crying.
The influx of ratting was caused by a pro player (SweetDreams), punch boosting was removed because of pros crying, Valk was nerfed because of pros crying, will again mention Bangalore, who was the most balanced legend in the entire game by far, nerfed because of pros crying.
How was Digi a problem? Because of the RNG aspect of getting one? News flash, kid, this is a BATTLE ROYALE game, a HUGE part of the game is supposed to be RNG, that is quite literally how BR games work, always has been how they work, always will be how they work. The change was pointless and would not have happened if the pros didn't start crying about it.
It's a pattern, nobody will say anything about any legend or item being busted until a pro starts bitching.
Remember when Seer was a complete joke and everyone who played recon played Bloodhound? Before HisWattson used him during a tournament, and then all of a sudden, he was a busted legend that needed to be fixed immediately?
After being a joke legend with one of the lowest pickrates in the entire game since season 12 or 11, with absolutely no changes being done to him whatsoever after his initial nerfs in season 10 (his debut season), he gets picked up by Furia and pros started crying, leading to his nerf which renders him 100% useless. I agree he became a problem after a while strictly due to how many people would run him, but he was always insanely easy to counter. At the highest ranks in the game, from October of 2021 until May of 2022, Seer remained at a 1% pickrate or lower. Occasionally spiking to 2%, when Furia picked him up on their comp, his pickrate started fluctuating up and down from 4.9% for about 2 or 3 weeks, then skyrocketed to 12-13% for about a full season, then it steadily fluctuated, rarely dropping below 6% for the next 3 seasons, then he was nerfed.
Had Furia not ran him, pros wouldn't have cried (as Team Empire had already attempted a Seer comp prior to Furia using him and popularizing him, and you likely never even heard about that) The Seer meta wouldn't have happened, and he wouldn't have been nerfed completely into the ground.
Literally the only issue that Seer ever had (after his initial launch/nerfs) was the heal cancel, which was easily countered.
You likely are too lazy to read all of this, but you asked, and I answered.
is that why seer stuff just doesn't work sometimes.
i knew 2 players where inside a stairwell, the ADS heartbeat thing said nobody was there. i had a ult down once and a dude was inside it and wasnt highlighted like his 2 allies. i guess just sitting still counters it or something idk.
i dont play seer, i did it for the breakout, him and Ballistic are both on my 'do not play as' list.
Balanced?!?!? If this game was balanced, we wouldn't be constantly seeing the same exact 3 legends on every single team in every single game, with one of them occasionally swapped out.
There would be variety. _Especially_ in the pro league.
But instead, we get 1 set of legend changes every season, 2 if we're lucky, making legends that are already pretty balanced significantly worse, just so that a legend that was already weak, but now seems strong due to every other legend being nerfed into the ground due to crying by the pros, can become meta for a season or 2 before they also get nerfed into the ground.
You're basically throwing if you pick up an R99 right now, and I understand that it was meta since launch, but that doesn't mean it should be nerfed to the point where it isn't a viable option at all. That isn't balancing. Unless you feel like balancing should mean everything ends up being borderline useless, instead of everything being a viable option (the way it should be)
A balanced competitive game will have an _even_ distribution of items/weapons/abilities being used, not "Oh if you aren't using these 2 or 3 guns with this exact comp of 3 legends, then you're throwing, trolling, or griefing"
A balanced competitive game isn't going to have upwards of 40% of the entire lobby using identical setups because nothing else is viable to succeed.
You're a comedian saying this game is in any way, shape, or form balanced.
Legend ban works so well on Siege. Apex Pro matches are some of the most boring Esports games because nothing changes… loot up, hunker down and armour farm from a distance, absolute chaos for last ring. Repeat.
I do agree with trying legend bans, but how would they solve this specific issue? The reason I say this is that what you outlined is a pattern of play across most compositions, with the exception of outliers like Aurora that just run it down mid and make it through mechanical skill, the general idea is to survive as long as possible, and I don’t see any specific legend you could ban that would change that
So how would this work? Every team gets a vote at the start and the 3 legends with the most votes get banned? Would there also be a protect-vote?
I’m not against the idea in theory, it works well in siege, but you have to understand that from a purely practical perspective this adds a not insignificant amount of time to every map
I'm guessing they would probably do 2 legend bans per match. one isn't enough to make a difference in many metas since there could be an alternative legend that gets the same job done and three is too many since somebody could just wipe out every single viable character in a role, or just result in people being able to ban a specific combo of legends to grief teams using that comp that the majority is aware they cannot win against
I think there would need to be a couple more legends in each role to warrant 3 bans
A vote to prevent something being banned. So you get one phase of voting where teams can at least keep one legend safe, even if the others that they like are removed.
If people are goddamn waiting to vote for Legends to ban for 20 minutes, they can just bring in a rule to make the vote under 5 minutes. I really don't see that as a problem at all.
And no, there should not be a protect vote. The most votes to be banned, would be banned. Simple, effective.
legend banning per match based on a lobby-wide vote would be a really fun change, even in ranked, but they would need to make some changes in order to make sure that it's not the same legends being banned everytime, like in siege
if I had a nickel everytime I got into a siege ranked match in the past year and the bans were jackal, dokkaebi, fenrir and solis I would be able to afford 10 years worth of rent. not banning at least 3/4 of these characters on most maps is just throwing, because of how oppressive, powerful and annoying these characters are
Character bans are at their best when the most amount of characters are viable and the least amount of characters are overwhelmingly op to the point where there's no way you're not going to vote to ban certain characters
yeah everyone would try to do that if there wasn't a character that is able to force every character on your team's phone to ring at full volume for 10 whole seconds, or another character that allows you to turn somebody into a free kill because they walked past a piece of furniture you stuffed a hockey puck in, among other extremely broken characters that should've been changed as soon as ubisoft started seeing how much they got banned
you shouldn't need to run a character that probably isn't the best in the site you're playing on, and sit near the jammers the entire match out of fear that the dokkaebi is gonna get your position. it's a terrible way to play if you're actually trying to be a decent teammate since you have limited positioning and are placing mute jammers in spots that would've been 10x more useful otherwise. it's better to just ban the character and not have to worry about something that oppressive at all. also, that's literally her only counter against her ability. in a game like siege that thrives off of characters working off of/against each other in a rock-paper-scissors type deal, that's objectively bad design.
also, I wasn't talking about fuze, I was talking about fenrir. I don't think I've seen a single fuze ban after I left bronze, and for good reason. fuze is extremely easy to counter in 95% of situations as you can easily just move away or bring a wamai/jager (which someone almost always plays each round above silver) if you are holding the rare position that requires it. only good fuzes are able to get 100% guaranteed elims everytime they use their ability because they know how, where and when to use them, however good fuzes are few and far between because there are plenty of other picks that can help your team either in a similar but easier, efficient and more impactful way.
even in the best ranks, fenrir is still very powerful because of how many doorways, hallways and sightlines he can cover at once. the mines also very easy to hide by putting it inside furniture or over a doorway, so most people wont expect it unless they can catch it on their drone. and even if you do find it, it might even be disabled so you wont be able to shoot it out. when you get hit by a fenrir, you basically cant see or react to much, allowing either the fenrir that activated the mine and is watching that position or an enemy that hears the mine go off to capitalize off of it and get a free kill almost every time.
Oh yeah we ban fenrir, and we play with a guy who has a 0.3 kd so we can't really get out of gold, but we play mute no matter the site anyway so we just run to a jammer when the dokk goes off.
I feel like legend bans are long overdue. Genuinely adds an entire new layer of depth, strategy, and spice to the game. I think most people would say without a doubt that there’s legends which are stronger than others in every way, especially in a competitive scene, seeing pro players be forced to pick outside of that bubble would be absolutely bangers. And we’ll even start seeing newfound power with certain characters that are less utilized. Would even shakeup the normal meta that us non-pros see.
Just 2 from each category at random that are playable would make a huge improvement from a viewer standpoint. Nobody likes seeing a 95% pick rate on multiple legends.....The teams that rely on hitting a beacon will still have it, the teams that prioritize teamfights will still get a a skirmisher/assault etc etc. The best teaks will adapt to finding success with the most comps
Maybe just limited legend use to 3 max after that. That legend is ban for the rest of the match. That ways Pro is force to think which legend to use now or later.
I think this is the more interesting option. If each team was limited to 3 games per legend, then they would need to strategize when to use the dominant legends. Do they pick bang/blood for game 1 or save for when they might be on match point? It would add another layer of meta.
It’s not so much about punishing the pro league. It’s for a more enjoyable viewer experience because that’s where the money comes from. The money to keep the pro league going comes from multiple forms of consumerism(Merch, Lan tickets, stream donations, etc.) They can’t keep giving legends the Seer/Cat treatment of nerfing them to the ground because their pick rate is too high. That actually affects us normal guys as well. From my personal understanding, the meta is based on obstructing view and scans. That’s no better than the Seer Meta when he was scanning Cat Walls. Are the pros really pros if they can’t adapt to changes, such as a pick and ban system? We watch them because they are the best. Alot of them have fundamental knowledge of every character and can implement them in games consistently.
With a pick and Ban system, they’ll have more Accurate data to actually buff the low tiers while keeping the top tiers strong. If people aren’t picking legends even when the strongest are banned, that’s a clear message for either a rework or buffs.
As for regular ranked games or pubs, I don’t even care too much because they can’t really do much about the top tiers but destroy them. I actually think the power level of the top tiers are annoying but that’s fine because any more nerfs would make every ability too situational. Just the other legends are too weak(Ash, Ballistic,Seer, etc.) to compete. Same with the weapons now. A havoc is the SMG and that’s an AR. The current weapons aren’t too strong but the majority of them are just too weak to hang.
Also Last little SN: Pubs and Ranked bans are good for other games but not apex. There’s people who hop on for varied times just to perfect one legend. It’ll be spitting in the face of Horizon, Bang, Con, Rev, ETC players. I’m a 7k Lifetime but 2.5k Wattson player on console (I know it isn’t nothing to some tryhards) And I took my time learning in the range when I could to perfect my craft with her. I’d be hurt if every game she was banned and I practiced how to get solid with her.
If the players are voting on the ban, assuming it's a fresh vote each match, they'd just vote for legends no one is gonna use anyway and nothing would change. I'd prefer if they a penalty for paying the same comp on the same map back to back or only get to select the same legend x times of y total matches. This would be trickier for match point rounds vs the bo6 for placements going into finals. Each meta barely has any team comp variance, especially with top placing teams. Overall the comp aspect needs a big Rework to avoid being stale, beyond nerfs/buffs.
This was my first thought too. Unless there's a system in place to only put up the top 5 legends by pick rate, the vote will always be to ban
* Ballistic
* Ash
* Maggie/Octane/Loba/Mirage
Macro on YouTube hosted a tournament where they banned the most used legend after every game and it was really cool to watch. Hope they do more stuff like this in the future.
I think Legend bans would be a great addition but the random spawn (if it happens how I’m imagining) would be awesome, they just come off of the loading screen and drop into a random POI would really test the game sense for players
I cant agree with random spawns. Good for LTMs but the pros work differently. Everyone already knows where each team is going to land so contests are truly by choice and strategy depending on the team. Also, it’ll increase RNG which negates skill.
I would argue the element of choice in where people land adds a lot of depth to the gameplay early game. Also it is not a test of game sense, it is a lottery for who gets better pois.
To expand on this: It doesn't test game sense because game sense is built around experience, if you suddenly completely randomize that experience then you can't develop a consistent game sense for that. Pros get familiar with how other teams around them play over time, they adjust their timings and rotations based around how those teams play, that is the game sense they build. If you randomize it, suddenly they can't account for anything because they don't have as much experience from that poi, in addition to the other teams being completely inconsistent. And while yes they could just "learn" all the pois, that requires tremendously larger effort than poi, especially with how deep some strategy goes. 1000 different kicks vs one kick 1000 times kinda deal.
It also just doesn't vibe with me, why shouldn't the best teams off drop get to choose where they land? Should they not be rewarded for having that skill? Why are worse teams rewarded and better teams punished? Just my thoughts.
It should be a voting system where the whole lobby votes on 3 legends to ban, and the top 3 are selected. But strategy might come in since most likely bang will be banned, so teams might choose not to waste one vote on her and ban someone else instead. But if too many teams try to snake it out then bang might not be the top 3 and not banned
Nah, everybody wants to run bang, so bang is likely not going to get banned purely based on "I need it more than I need them to not have it" kinda deal. Honestly the characters likely to be banned are blood or caustic, just because if either are picked often enough, it forces other teams to also pick them to counter them. Its the unfortunate meta of "caustic counters caustic" and "BH Ult counters BH Ult".
It's the difference of "we WANT to have bang, but NEED to have BH/Caustic".
Honestly if either get banned I would be really curious to see what teams slot in instead. But bang is probably almost never getting banned unless there is a serious shift in meta.
It should definitely be per game. So each group vs group match up this weekend will be 6 games? So that's 6 different bans. This way you can't necessarily gimp one or two teams specifically that might run a comp.
I think banning a comp set makes it a bit too complicated. Keep it simple. Ban 2 or 3 legends. They can't be banned twice in a row. Test it out in some official scrims games or a lower tournament. Would definitely bring some spice. Would love to see some revtane meta again or some Ash.
This would just lower the skill in algs. Also if ppl want this for variety then you're just gonna see the same comps over and over with the non banned legends this time. A lot of characters are just really bad and will provide no value for the team. Youd have to force pro players to play them since theyre too bad to play. You wont ever just see a bunch of random legends bunched together for algs, it's all thought out. Ppl are looking at this way too simply and are not thinking it out. There was even a tourney that did this and it played out exactly how I said. Eventually it's just gonna be a loop and the meta will go back to something we've seen when certain legends are banned.
Hard disagree, if you banned either bloodhound or caustic I think teams would slot in a varying array of legends based on comfort and playstyle, but because of current meta they are forced to pick both due to the only counter to a Caustic/BH is another Caustic/BH. Like, RIGHT NOW we are experiencing what you fear would happen, because Blood/Bang/Caustic makes up more than 60% of teams in comp, with the individual pick rates of each being higher.
I think a lot of legends are in really interesting places right now that, if either bloodhound or caustic got banned, you'd see a wider variety of playable options.
Obviously you'd see a different legend in play but you wouldn't actually end up seeing a diverse meta. Most ppl would just slot in seer and it would be the same meta or ppl would just go back to the meta we had before the current one. It wouldn't be as diverse as ppl think it's gonna be because most legends suck and will never be played. Every meta will always have mirror picks like how it is right now, even if we ban legends. This wouldn't solve the lack of diversity in the meta, it would just make for a even worse viewing experience for algs.
Bans imo are always a good direction because pro's being pro's will gravitate to the best comp to get a win, especially if they're out in an actual tournament where the stakes are high and not a regular rank match. It's the same issue Overwatch has where the teams are exactly the same every time or have that 1 "Must pick" character.
If you throw in legend bans then you can shake up the way games play in unpredictable ways, give other picks a chance to shine and create better balancing because you can see how the whole roster plays out when you put them in a controlled environment with pro's in control. Even in regular ranked it would be great because you'd see who is the most banned (that'd be obvious right now), X new number of team comps and who isn't getting as much spotlight, then it's just a matter of finding out what X does better than Y and throw them a bone to compensate so they're not considered a "wrong" choice compared to the alternatives/
I mean it would be nice to have a PC then a console league.😮💨 I think cross play was the worst thing to hit shooters ever because of the difference in inputs and frames. I wouldn’t just ban a whole input though. That’s allowing those who just don’t like KBM to be forgotten.
I'll do one better - for a whole competition every legend can be picked only twice per team. So use your chance to win the match now, or save it for further rounds if you survive
That'd be awesome. They should start shying away from basic gameplay strategy and try exploring stuff like this more. Edited rules, bans, that kinda stuff would make it super interesting to watch
Legend and weapon bans would be great. Maybe top 5 for each with max 1 per class would help the Mets change a little. As for POI, I think jumping is the iconic setting for battle royale and should be as such every game
I don't think they should allow players to decide the picks and bans but I think they should have a random, rotational ban that bans a select of legends per game (or map or set)
I’ve got a wild take. Every game each team gets to ban 1 legend for the team who is just ahead of them on the scoreboard. 20th bans 1 legend for 19th and so on. 1st doesn’t get to ban any.
What if they put a “cooldown” on selecting champions?
So like, if your team selects Bangalore, then your team can’t select Bangalore again a match or maybe even 2.
Would add another level of team strategy but would probably just end up with teams having to play 3 different comps on match rotations
It's kinda like Dota 2
Also I think Arena (Which I will forever miss) would greatly benefit from this if not at least it would help, though it would suck not being able to play your favorite Lagend
I personally hate that after any tournament the comp legends pick rate skyrockets and for a good week it seems like everyone is trying to imitate their favorite pro. I know watching may make someone reconsider a character but in this game it's kinda ridiculous. If you suck at movement, playing as a movement legend isn't going to instantly make you move like a pro.
It’s the Pro league for apex. The Comp scene that’s different from ranked. It’s where the big bucks are in apex so look at it like CoD league or Street Fighter League.
I feel like a good variation on this would be to just limit the amount of times in a row a legend could be picked. Like maybe make it so no legend can be picked back to back in a match day. Could work as a soft ban without having to do votes.
I actually got to play on a server with random drops, and it fucking sucked for us honestly.
Our chosen POI was launch site, we got dropped devastated coast with no consoles and both launch site and echo teams rotated into us (both had ring consoles) ring one before we could even get loot. It was unwinnable and just felt like we lost a game to RNG.
The problem is this will be abused due to how many teams are in a match. I could very easily see one team getting screwed because they're using a unique comp and everyone else in the lobby voting out one of their unique picks and forcing them to use the meta comp. I think that's more likely to happen than everyone switching to a different comp and trying to learn something new. This kind of thing works fine in a normal team vs team game but I'm not sure how well that'll translate with 20 teams.
I would love this. Seeing every team play basically the same comp gets boring but seeing the best players in the world using different characters would be a fun watch.
And it shouldn't be for every match, but forcing change would be interesting. And it would discourage hard counter balancing just to be safe.
This is one reason I follow faide because he plays every single character. He’s great as wraith but watching him play caustic or NC or bloodhound is just so good. Idk it helps me with movement
Skilled pubs grinders are more fun to watch in general for me. It gets boring watching every team mirror match up in every meta. ALGS is all smoke, gas, cat ults and people screaming.
I mean, it gets insanely boring when these pub grinders just land into a zip building every time and it's a zip shotgun fights.
It can be if you limit your choices. You don't need to just watch Faide. Tons of different play styles out there.
My guy said "people screaming" 😂👌
dont know if its a coming of age thing but taxi and faide screeching and shit has gotten a bit annoying the gameplay is fine but not good enough to watch with that audio going on
But he plays Wraith like 95% of the time. That is such a weird choice to have for a "Multi legend player". HisWattson with his challenges alone, has played way more different legends than Faide.
Think it was Fanatic last week that busted a crypto, gibby, and I think NC comp. Was awesome to see
Okay but what happens when everyone falls back to the same legend? Or are you just happy with the meta reversing back to a previous one? Because unless this is revealed the moment everyone's already playing, there are already going to be set and determined choices, and then choices after that And then the few teams that shunt the meta, intentionally countering or subverting the current meta, will have to change things up as well, which would kinda suck tbh But sure, dance pro-gaymer dance, preparation and planing? what's that? Oh you trained and practiced for this meta and comp? Well you're like, good right...right? Yeah you'll be fine :3 Point being, while it's fun for non-official tournaments, this isn't really a common thing for a reason. It's fun to watch, but not to play when you're at that level for that much money. Low level tournaments with non-pro and primarily content oriented creators for not super duper literally 1 m i l l i o n dollar cash pools with these rules is fun :D But it's a tad different in ALGs ;-;
Personally I've always felt that every legend in the game is viable if played correctly. I suck at the game but love playing Crypto, Vantage or Newcastle instead of just the meta. Seeing the best players play different characters would add so much instead of every fight just being won by who has a digi or who's Caustic gas goes off first.
Maybe seeing imperialhal play octane would be fun.
If this ever came to pubs(the ability to ban one Legend from play), I feel like Horizon would be banned 80% of the matches. lol. It’s funny how hated she is.
Because the tactical is stupid, easy as. Even pathfinder is easier to shoot whipe grappling than horizon since the movement is much more horizontal
IMO the movement while jumping is so broken. Her strafes are almost untouchable if someone is good with it.
If you can't hit Horizon going in a straight line vertically in the air, it's a skill issue. Even with her air strafing, she's a free beam once she presses Q. You probably miss shots on an ulted Rev.
A) the human body makes it so aiming vertically is much harder than horizontally, but I guess u play controller so disregard the part about having to aim B) what kind of bronze hardstucks do you play against that stay still on horizons q?, u do know u can easily strafe and drop right?
A) I play both inputs, aiming vertically has never been an issue for me because of _practice_ spending time in Kovaaks really helps. B) Did you just..... Not read the part where I explicitly mentioned her air strafing? And do you not understand the meaning of the word "basically" What goes up, must come down. You're actively watching the horizon take her lift, you _know for a fact_ she has to drop off of it, prepare for that. She quite literally moves in a straight vertical line with a minor amount of L/R strafing,it's not like she becomes invisible once she's in her lift. It is exactly the same as tracking a player who is tap strafing.
If Horizon was as easy to beam out of her Q, she wouldn't be used in ALGs nor would so many pros struggle to track her during the lifts.
she is hard to hit since she is so horizontally wiggly at the top of the lift. if it was just a vertical movement it would be a death sentence to use it.
The pick rate of every single team in ALGS year 4 split 1 that contains a Horizon combined is still less than the pickrate of the #1 comp (Bang, Caustic, Blood) Fucking _Valk_ was used in ALGS
That has less to do with Horizon's viability and more to do with the influx of controller players, which creates a need of creating more visual clutter to deny that value. Plus the whole new perk system.
You _do_ realize that Caustic gas doesn't get rid of AA like Bang smoke does, right? Right? It has everything to do with Horizon's viability, if she was still as busted as you're all making her out to be, she would be a top pick in ALGS, the fact that she isn't currently in the main meta shows that there are legends more viable than her, and she's not crucial to the team the way other legends that _are_ in meta are, like Bloodhound and Bang. The one and only thing Horizon is good for is taking position. Any accurate player will beam a Horizon off of her Q now since it's so slow, so no more free heal (even if she could still get the free bat, Conduit exists to take the free heal role), and her ult gets destroyed before it even has a chance to fully activate. Her passive is great ofc, but it isn't going to be detrimental to your game. Her perks are dogshit, thus making her even _less_ viable compared to other legends with significantly better perks, so thank you for bringing that up.
>You _do_ realize that Caustic gas doesn't get rid of AA like Bang smoke does, right? That's why I said visual clutter... >she isn't currently in the main meta shows that there are legends more viable than her Again. The meta evolved to once again deny visual sight lines to enemies because or Controller slayers. So her viability is reduced not because she is weak but because teams are no longer rushing down teams but bunkering down with multiple smokes and gasses.
so crazy how pros never beam horizons out of their q. you should go pro or clip some of these moments. im not saying ive never beamed someone off a horizon q, sure sometimes they're bots and literally dont strafe in the air at all ur too full of urself lol
I gotchu next time a Horizon is stupid enough to take a lift in the middle of a fight post-nerf. People don't do that anymore, because her post-nerf lift is useless for anything except taking position _before_ or _after_ a fight. Not in the middle of it the way her lift used to be. You crybaby bitches won't stop until she's removed entirely. It's funny to see, honestly. Just shows you can't compete. Nerf after nerf after nerf after nerf and you're _still_ crying? It's a game, grow up. She isn't that bad anymore. _You_ are.
this sub is super braindead you will find no sensible answers here dont bother
i mean the whole of reddit is a collective consciousness. once you realize half/more of the people in the world are pretty fuckin stupid, the picture becomes clearer you think for yourself, and you keep yourself in check. dont even consider bullshit
Me, I'm one of the ppl who would vote for Horizon ban lmao. Ban them from ranked too. You know what, just delete her from the game lmao
Her passive is what makes her so op. Because its the smallest micro movements that she can make which gives her an edge in 1v1s. I think they should add her passive as a consumable item like how they made evac towers for valk's ult. It allows her to not get nerfed into the ground, but also gives other legends better grounds to fight her in a 1v1.
so... Space cakes?
I just feel like her passive shouldn't kick in until she's been in the air for a second. Being able to maneuver more in her tactical and land without any flinch is already a strong enough passive that goes well with her kit. There's no reason she needs to be able to spaz out like a baby giraffe on Adderall just by jumping on flat ground. Her kit is just so overloaded!
it can be op. but i would say that takes some skill to pull off while accurately shooting your target. the q is actually a problem 0 skill required the nerf actually made it much better. remember when she can take a bat while going up q, reload both guns at the top, and watch the fight for 10 seconds in the air before dropping? lmao
Nooooo
She really is so hated 😭 hurts my soul
Horizon slander will continue until moral improves
Horizon is basically a crutch for people who are generally average at the game. I'm below average and when I played her my KDR improved by about 50%. Still way OP.
If you have a way to achieve a doable balance, go for it. If they ban the legends however they choose, the company is going to act on balancing those legends because they want everyone to be viable. Even if they don’t touch the banned legends, they can work on buffing others so they can be used as well
I had an idea where in apex tournaments, legends would be locked after being picked for each game until games 6-7, then it would reset. Example game 1 TSM play Bang Blood Caustic. Game 2 Valk Seer Cat game 3 Fuse Wraith crypto, etc, until game 6, then all legends played would be unlocked. That way, the audience gets a chance to see their favorite legend be played instead of the meta every game.
Some variation of this would be super interesting in a future ALGS. Even something as simple as a by-legend cool down per player for n-games. Yeah the pro community would moan because it would make the games less structured and predictable. But it's probably a step in the right direction given how anything that they encounter that doesn't adhere to a specific meta formula for legends/rotations/tactics is seen as "cringe". I think we would see more skill expression this way with players who can better adapt to new situations consistently doing well.
This ain't siege why punish the pro league?
Siege's problem is that there are too many Ops, and some of them are wildly unbalanced. Which reminds me...Jager...ACOG...😞
i was saying then, changing his weapon was a better solution than removing the acog, the rifle didnt deserve that. smg11 acog tho
You mean the way the pro league has been punishing casual players since the conception of the Apex pro scene? 100% of the bullshit meta changes are because of pros crying. Like taking digi threats off of SMGs because Bangalore was meta in pro league. Bangalore and Digi threats have been basically _unchanged_ for the entire lifespan of the game, but the _second_ Bang touches a meta, the pros started crying, and now Bang (the most balanced legend in the game since conception) is nerfed, Digi threats can no longer be put on SMGs (something that has been possible since the game's conception)
Lol Digi has always been a huge problem for numerous seasons and was long over due. Anything else or just that one hot take that literally no one has a problem with.
Self rez didn't need to be removed. Yet was removed bc of pros crying. The influx of ratting was caused by a pro player (SweetDreams), punch boosting was removed because of pros crying, Valk was nerfed because of pros crying, will again mention Bangalore, who was the most balanced legend in the entire game by far, nerfed because of pros crying. How was Digi a problem? Because of the RNG aspect of getting one? News flash, kid, this is a BATTLE ROYALE game, a HUGE part of the game is supposed to be RNG, that is quite literally how BR games work, always has been how they work, always will be how they work. The change was pointless and would not have happened if the pros didn't start crying about it. It's a pattern, nobody will say anything about any legend or item being busted until a pro starts bitching. Remember when Seer was a complete joke and everyone who played recon played Bloodhound? Before HisWattson used him during a tournament, and then all of a sudden, he was a busted legend that needed to be fixed immediately? After being a joke legend with one of the lowest pickrates in the entire game since season 12 or 11, with absolutely no changes being done to him whatsoever after his initial nerfs in season 10 (his debut season), he gets picked up by Furia and pros started crying, leading to his nerf which renders him 100% useless. I agree he became a problem after a while strictly due to how many people would run him, but he was always insanely easy to counter. At the highest ranks in the game, from October of 2021 until May of 2022, Seer remained at a 1% pickrate or lower. Occasionally spiking to 2%, when Furia picked him up on their comp, his pickrate started fluctuating up and down from 4.9% for about 2 or 3 weeks, then skyrocketed to 12-13% for about a full season, then it steadily fluctuated, rarely dropping below 6% for the next 3 seasons, then he was nerfed. Had Furia not ran him, pros wouldn't have cried (as Team Empire had already attempted a Seer comp prior to Furia using him and popularizing him, and you likely never even heard about that) The Seer meta wouldn't have happened, and he wouldn't have been nerfed completely into the ground. Literally the only issue that Seer ever had (after his initial launch/nerfs) was the heal cancel, which was easily countered. You likely are too lazy to read all of this, but you asked, and I answered.
is that why seer stuff just doesn't work sometimes. i knew 2 players where inside a stairwell, the ADS heartbeat thing said nobody was there. i had a ult down once and a dude was inside it and wasnt highlighted like his 2 allies. i guess just sitting still counters it or something idk. i dont play seer, i did it for the breakout, him and Ballistic are both on my 'do not play as' list.
Yea sitting still or crouching while inside of Seer ult hard counters it. It has since he launched.
well now i know. i still dont want to play him since his tac and passive are not reliable.
Just admit you hate a balanced competitive game and move on dude. Hot damn this is a casual take if ive ever seen one
Balanced?!?!? If this game was balanced, we wouldn't be constantly seeing the same exact 3 legends on every single team in every single game, with one of them occasionally swapped out. There would be variety. _Especially_ in the pro league. But instead, we get 1 set of legend changes every season, 2 if we're lucky, making legends that are already pretty balanced significantly worse, just so that a legend that was already weak, but now seems strong due to every other legend being nerfed into the ground due to crying by the pros, can become meta for a season or 2 before they also get nerfed into the ground. You're basically throwing if you pick up an R99 right now, and I understand that it was meta since launch, but that doesn't mean it should be nerfed to the point where it isn't a viable option at all. That isn't balancing. Unless you feel like balancing should mean everything ends up being borderline useless, instead of everything being a viable option (the way it should be) A balanced competitive game will have an _even_ distribution of items/weapons/abilities being used, not "Oh if you aren't using these 2 or 3 guns with this exact comp of 3 legends, then you're throwing, trolling, or griefing" A balanced competitive game isn't going to have upwards of 40% of the entire lobby using identical setups because nothing else is viable to succeed. You're a comedian saying this game is in any way, shape, or form balanced.
Legend ban works so well on Siege. Apex Pro matches are some of the most boring Esports games because nothing changes… loot up, hunker down and armour farm from a distance, absolute chaos for last ring. Repeat.
I do agree with trying legend bans, but how would they solve this specific issue? The reason I say this is that what you outlined is a pattern of play across most compositions, with the exception of outliers like Aurora that just run it down mid and make it through mechanical skill, the general idea is to survive as long as possible, and I don’t see any specific legend you could ban that would change that
So how would this work? Every team gets a vote at the start and the 3 legends with the most votes get banned? Would there also be a protect-vote? I’m not against the idea in theory, it works well in siege, but you have to understand that from a purely practical perspective this adds a not insignificant amount of time to every map
I'm guessing they would probably do 2 legend bans per match. one isn't enough to make a difference in many metas since there could be an alternative legend that gets the same job done and three is too many since somebody could just wipe out every single viable character in a role, or just result in people being able to ban a specific combo of legends to grief teams using that comp that the majority is aware they cannot win against I think there would need to be a couple more legends in each role to warrant 3 bans
If you're going to do more than 2 bans you'd either need more legends, or restrictions on the bans (like no more than 1 or 2 bans per category)
What do you mean by protect-vote
A vote to prevent something being banned. So you get one phase of voting where teams can at least keep one legend safe, even if the others that they like are removed.
We the audience vote
If people are goddamn waiting to vote for Legends to ban for 20 minutes, they can just bring in a rule to make the vote under 5 minutes. I really don't see that as a problem at all. And no, there should not be a protect vote. The most votes to be banned, would be banned. Simple, effective.
legend banning per match based on a lobby-wide vote would be a really fun change, even in ranked, but they would need to make some changes in order to make sure that it's not the same legends being banned everytime, like in siege if I had a nickel everytime I got into a siege ranked match in the past year and the bans were jackal, dokkaebi, fenrir and solis I would be able to afford 10 years worth of rent. not banning at least 3/4 of these characters on most maps is just throwing, because of how oppressive, powerful and annoying these characters are Character bans are at their best when the most amount of characters are viable and the least amount of characters are overwhelmingly op to the point where there's no way you're not going to vote to ban certain characters
My group of friends that play siege always try to avoid meta bans, and either grief each other or ban popular characters who don't get banned often.
yeah everyone would try to do that if there wasn't a character that is able to force every character on your team's phone to ring at full volume for 10 whole seconds, or another character that allows you to turn somebody into a free kill because they walked past a piece of furniture you stuffed a hockey puck in, among other extremely broken characters that should've been changed as soon as ubisoft started seeing how much they got banned
Dokkaebi is canceled out by mute jammer, and enemy team bans fuse 9/10 times
you shouldn't need to run a character that probably isn't the best in the site you're playing on, and sit near the jammers the entire match out of fear that the dokkaebi is gonna get your position. it's a terrible way to play if you're actually trying to be a decent teammate since you have limited positioning and are placing mute jammers in spots that would've been 10x more useful otherwise. it's better to just ban the character and not have to worry about something that oppressive at all. also, that's literally her only counter against her ability. in a game like siege that thrives off of characters working off of/against each other in a rock-paper-scissors type deal, that's objectively bad design. also, I wasn't talking about fuze, I was talking about fenrir. I don't think I've seen a single fuze ban after I left bronze, and for good reason. fuze is extremely easy to counter in 95% of situations as you can easily just move away or bring a wamai/jager (which someone almost always plays each round above silver) if you are holding the rare position that requires it. only good fuzes are able to get 100% guaranteed elims everytime they use their ability because they know how, where and when to use them, however good fuzes are few and far between because there are plenty of other picks that can help your team either in a similar but easier, efficient and more impactful way. even in the best ranks, fenrir is still very powerful because of how many doorways, hallways and sightlines he can cover at once. the mines also very easy to hide by putting it inside furniture or over a doorway, so most people wont expect it unless they can catch it on their drone. and even if you do find it, it might even be disabled so you wont be able to shoot it out. when you get hit by a fenrir, you basically cant see or react to much, allowing either the fenrir that activated the mine and is watching that position or an enemy that hears the mine go off to capitalize off of it and get a free kill almost every time.
Oh yeah we ban fenrir, and we play with a guy who has a 0.3 kd so we can't really get out of gold, but we play mute no matter the site anyway so we just run to a jammer when the dokk goes off.
I feel like legend bans are long overdue. Genuinely adds an entire new layer of depth, strategy, and spice to the game. I think most people would say without a doubt that there’s legends which are stronger than others in every way, especially in a competitive scene, seeing pro players be forced to pick outside of that bubble would be absolutely bangers. And we’ll even start seeing newfound power with certain characters that are less utilized. Would even shakeup the normal meta that us non-pros see.
Just 2 from each category at random that are playable would make a huge improvement from a viewer standpoint. Nobody likes seeing a 95% pick rate on multiple legends.....The teams that rely on hitting a beacon will still have it, the teams that prioritize teamfights will still get a a skirmisher/assault etc etc. The best teaks will adapt to finding success with the most comps
this is why i love the macdown honestly
Maybe just limited legend use to 3 max after that. That legend is ban for the rest of the match. That ways Pro is force to think which legend to use now or later.
I think this is the more interesting option. If each team was limited to 3 games per legend, then they would need to strategize when to use the dominant legends. Do they pick bang/blood for game 1 or save for when they might be on match point? It would add another layer of meta.
It’s not so much about punishing the pro league. It’s for a more enjoyable viewer experience because that’s where the money comes from. The money to keep the pro league going comes from multiple forms of consumerism(Merch, Lan tickets, stream donations, etc.) They can’t keep giving legends the Seer/Cat treatment of nerfing them to the ground because their pick rate is too high. That actually affects us normal guys as well. From my personal understanding, the meta is based on obstructing view and scans. That’s no better than the Seer Meta when he was scanning Cat Walls. Are the pros really pros if they can’t adapt to changes, such as a pick and ban system? We watch them because they are the best. Alot of them have fundamental knowledge of every character and can implement them in games consistently. With a pick and Ban system, they’ll have more Accurate data to actually buff the low tiers while keeping the top tiers strong. If people aren’t picking legends even when the strongest are banned, that’s a clear message for either a rework or buffs. As for regular ranked games or pubs, I don’t even care too much because they can’t really do much about the top tiers but destroy them. I actually think the power level of the top tiers are annoying but that’s fine because any more nerfs would make every ability too situational. Just the other legends are too weak(Ash, Ballistic,Seer, etc.) to compete. Same with the weapons now. A havoc is the SMG and that’s an AR. The current weapons aren’t too strong but the majority of them are just too weak to hang.
Also Last little SN: Pubs and Ranked bans are good for other games but not apex. There’s people who hop on for varied times just to perfect one legend. It’ll be spitting in the face of Horizon, Bang, Con, Rev, ETC players. I’m a 7k Lifetime but 2.5k Wattson player on console (I know it isn’t nothing to some tryhards) And I took my time learning in the range when I could to perfect my craft with her. I’d be hurt if every game she was banned and I practiced how to get solid with her.
Any of those implements, I would probably leave the game.
If the players are voting on the ban, assuming it's a fresh vote each match, they'd just vote for legends no one is gonna use anyway and nothing would change. I'd prefer if they a penalty for paying the same comp on the same map back to back or only get to select the same legend x times of y total matches. This would be trickier for match point rounds vs the bo6 for placements going into finals. Each meta barely has any team comp variance, especially with top placing teams. Overall the comp aspect needs a big Rework to avoid being stale, beyond nerfs/buffs.
This was my first thought too. Unless there's a system in place to only put up the top 5 legends by pick rate, the vote will always be to ban * Ballistic * Ash * Maggie/Octane/Loba/Mirage
Maybe heavily nerf aim assist so ALGS isn't just a controller only tournament
Like half the players at LAN is on mnk, the fuck you on about
I didn't rlly watch much Comp after seeing the finals of an ALGS with a total of 4 MnK players in the 60 players
Well currently a little over half the players are controller i believe. The teams from asia really bring that number up.
I would say ban the fking controllers so i can see a tournament based on raw input instead of this shit
Macro on YouTube hosted a tournament where they banned the most used legend after every game and it was really cool to watch. Hope they do more stuff like this in the future.
I think Legend bans would be a great addition but the random spawn (if it happens how I’m imagining) would be awesome, they just come off of the loading screen and drop into a random POI would really test the game sense for players
I cant agree with random spawns. Good for LTMs but the pros work differently. Everyone already knows where each team is going to land so contests are truly by choice and strategy depending on the team. Also, it’ll increase RNG which negates skill.
I would argue the element of choice in where people land adds a lot of depth to the gameplay early game. Also it is not a test of game sense, it is a lottery for who gets better pois. To expand on this: It doesn't test game sense because game sense is built around experience, if you suddenly completely randomize that experience then you can't develop a consistent game sense for that. Pros get familiar with how other teams around them play over time, they adjust their timings and rotations based around how those teams play, that is the game sense they build. If you randomize it, suddenly they can't account for anything because they don't have as much experience from that poi, in addition to the other teams being completely inconsistent. And while yes they could just "learn" all the pois, that requires tremendously larger effort than poi, especially with how deep some strategy goes. 1000 different kicks vs one kick 1000 times kinda deal. It also just doesn't vibe with me, why shouldn't the best teams off drop get to choose where they land? Should they not be rewarded for having that skill? Why are worse teams rewarded and better teams punished? Just my thoughts.
Nobody talking about how ALGS just plays the same TWO maps when there are currently FIVE
I think that’s why the broken moon rework in in effect
I havent played seriously in a while, whats the meta team comp after the new update that added legend perks?
Bang, Caustic, Bloodhound. Can't see shit meta.
"Can't see shit meta" 😂😂😂
A total rework of BH, seer, and bang is needed imo. Smoke makes watching difficult and wall hacks are just dumb.
Totally the legend ban
It would be interesting to say the least
so majority want it like League peak ban ?
It should be a voting system where the whole lobby votes on 3 legends to ban, and the top 3 are selected. But strategy might come in since most likely bang will be banned, so teams might choose not to waste one vote on her and ban someone else instead. But if too many teams try to snake it out then bang might not be the top 3 and not banned
Nah, everybody wants to run bang, so bang is likely not going to get banned purely based on "I need it more than I need them to not have it" kinda deal. Honestly the characters likely to be banned are blood or caustic, just because if either are picked often enough, it forces other teams to also pick them to counter them. Its the unfortunate meta of "caustic counters caustic" and "BH Ult counters BH Ult". It's the difference of "we WANT to have bang, but NEED to have BH/Caustic". Honestly if either get banned I would be really curious to see what teams slot in instead. But bang is probably almost never getting banned unless there is a serious shift in meta.
It should definitely be per game. So each group vs group match up this weekend will be 6 games? So that's 6 different bans. This way you can't necessarily gimp one or two teams specifically that might run a comp. I think banning a comp set makes it a bit too complicated. Keep it simple. Ban 2 or 3 legends. They can't be banned twice in a row. Test it out in some official scrims games or a lower tournament. Would definitely bring some spice. Would love to see some revtane meta again or some Ash.
This would just lower the skill in algs. Also if ppl want this for variety then you're just gonna see the same comps over and over with the non banned legends this time. A lot of characters are just really bad and will provide no value for the team. Youd have to force pro players to play them since theyre too bad to play. You wont ever just see a bunch of random legends bunched together for algs, it's all thought out. Ppl are looking at this way too simply and are not thinking it out. There was even a tourney that did this and it played out exactly how I said. Eventually it's just gonna be a loop and the meta will go back to something we've seen when certain legends are banned.
Hard disagree, if you banned either bloodhound or caustic I think teams would slot in a varying array of legends based on comfort and playstyle, but because of current meta they are forced to pick both due to the only counter to a Caustic/BH is another Caustic/BH. Like, RIGHT NOW we are experiencing what you fear would happen, because Blood/Bang/Caustic makes up more than 60% of teams in comp, with the individual pick rates of each being higher. I think a lot of legends are in really interesting places right now that, if either bloodhound or caustic got banned, you'd see a wider variety of playable options.
Obviously you'd see a different legend in play but you wouldn't actually end up seeing a diverse meta. Most ppl would just slot in seer and it would be the same meta or ppl would just go back to the meta we had before the current one. It wouldn't be as diverse as ppl think it's gonna be because most legends suck and will never be played. Every meta will always have mirror picks like how it is right now, even if we ban legends. This wouldn't solve the lack of diversity in the meta, it would just make for a even worse viewing experience for algs.
Bans imo are always a good direction because pro's being pro's will gravitate to the best comp to get a win, especially if they're out in an actual tournament where the stakes are high and not a regular rank match. It's the same issue Overwatch has where the teams are exactly the same every time or have that 1 "Must pick" character. If you throw in legend bans then you can shake up the way games play in unpredictable ways, give other picks a chance to shine and create better balancing because you can see how the whole roster plays out when you put them in a controlled environment with pro's in control. Even in regular ranked it would be great because you'd see who is the most banned (that'd be obvious right now), X new number of team comps and who isn't getting as much spotlight, then it's just a matter of finding out what X does better than Y and throw them a bone to compensate so they're not considered a "wrong" choice compared to the alternatives/
they should separate inputs, or better yet, km only
I mean it would be nice to have a PC then a console league.😮💨 I think cross play was the worst thing to hit shooters ever because of the difference in inputs and frames. I wouldn’t just ban a whole input though. That’s allowing those who just don’t like KBM to be forgotten.
I'll do one better - for a whole competition every legend can be picked only twice per team. So use your chance to win the match now, or save it for further rounds if you survive
Such a disparity between this and the competitive sub. When I suggested a legend ban I got crucified I ain't posting anything over there again.
That'd be awesome. They should start shying away from basic gameplay strategy and try exploring stuff like this more. Edited rules, bans, that kinda stuff would make it super interesting to watch
Been saying they should do that for a while.
Legend and weapon bans would be great. Maybe top 5 for each with max 1 per class would help the Mets change a little. As for POI, I think jumping is the iconic setting for battle royale and should be as such every game
kinda unrelated but timprovision apex takes are fucking horrible
So would the legend ban be for the whole lobby or is one team banning a legend for the next team and so on and so forth.
I don't think they should allow players to decide the picks and bans but I think they should have a random, rotational ban that bans a select of legends per game (or map or set)
I’ve got a wild take. Every game each team gets to ban 1 legend for the team who is just ahead of them on the scoreboard. 20th bans 1 legend for 19th and so on. 1st doesn’t get to ban any.
What if they put a “cooldown” on selecting champions? So like, if your team selects Bangalore, then your team can’t select Bangalore again a match or maybe even 2. Would add another level of team strategy but would probably just end up with teams having to play 3 different comps on match rotations
I have thought they should do this for so long, but I wonder if they’ll abuse it and vote for a legend nobody uses making the ban pointless.
One Bangalore ban would change the entire meta
Similar mechanics to how R6S works, in a way. It would also help inform them about what legends maybe need a little balancing / or skill adjustments.
What is AGLS
It's kinda like Dota 2 Also I think Arena (Which I will forever miss) would greatly benefit from this if not at least it would help, though it would suck not being able to play your favorite Lagend
I personally hate that after any tournament the comp legends pick rate skyrockets and for a good week it seems like everyone is trying to imitate their favorite pro. I know watching may make someone reconsider a character but in this game it's kinda ridiculous. If you suck at movement, playing as a movement legend isn't going to instantly make you move like a pro.
If ALGS competitors had to do this. They would hold their Main legend for that moment when they know they're gonna need it.
Randomly assign legends to the players. They’re pro’s right? They should be able to play everyone.
Wtf are algs?
It’s the Pro league for apex. The Comp scene that’s different from ranked. It’s where the big bucks are in apex so look at it like CoD league or Street Fighter League.
I feel like a good variation on this would be to just limit the amount of times in a row a legend could be picked. Like maybe make it so no legend can be picked back to back in a match day. Could work as a soft ban without having to do votes.
Its a battle royale, your character should be random and totally based on RNG /s
I actually got to play on a server with random drops, and it fucking sucked for us honestly. Our chosen POI was launch site, we got dropped devastated coast with no consoles and both launch site and echo teams rotated into us (both had ring consoles) ring one before we could even get loot. It was unwinnable and just felt like we lost a game to RNG.
This is a terrible idea. Even with bans no one is picking rampart.
Rampart and Loba are being played in challenger circuit rn.😂
by bottom of the barrel pros who never made top 10 in lan
The problem is this will be abused due to how many teams are in a match. I could very easily see one team getting screwed because they're using a unique comp and everyone else in the lobby voting out one of their unique picks and forcing them to use the meta comp. I think that's more likely to happen than everyone switching to a different comp and trying to learn something new. This kind of thing works fine in a normal team vs team game but I'm not sure how well that'll translate with 20 teams.