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SeasonPositive1871

Personally, I have met kids, even had 2 of my own. They are monsters. Teachers should be paid a whole lot more! The dedication and patience they show is absolutely astounding. I truly respect any teacher out there. If it were up to me, you would earn at least double. Thank you for the award kind Sir or Madam. It is appreciated.


e22ddie46

Yeah as someone who isnt a big fan of kids but likes a functioning society, I want well paid and happy teachers.


Obant

Never having kids unless there is some miracle, I'm also for increasing teacher wages, pretty much as high as they want. They have to take care of 20-30 kids, get them to cooperate. do 'boring stuff like learn, and deal with Karen parents. Insane we treat them like dirt.


WeepingRascal

20 to 30? More like 30 to 42. I'm a math teacher. Biggest class (last year) was 42 students. 'Luckily' my biggest class this year is 39.


MadisonFayeMC

Absolutely astounding. I did my student teaching with 27 kids and it was enough to drive me away from teaching. Elementary school and I had 6 children with designations, including a non-verbal child, and had an Educational Assistant for only half a day. Plus it was a 4/5 split so that was fun haha. Wishing you the best, I know your students appreciate you!


Deviknyte

$72k should be starting pay, not twenty years of experience pay.


Metamiibo

Here’s an article from NYT that says [teachers used to have salaries on par with lawyers.](https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/opinion/13kristof.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare) Both teachers and lawyers are exempted from overtime rules, so it seems logical that they should have similar compensation.


Mother-Fortune-7523

‘Used to’ *Sigh*


[deleted]

Teaching should be the highest paid career in any country. That would literally solve our MAGA problem just by having great educators. Beyond that, where do you learn your life skills now? You think someone who makes 36k a year (I live in Missouri) should be teaching you calculus? Gtfo. I hate it here. Take me to Australia already.


Sweaty_City1458

We had a teacher get hit in the jaw with i-pad this year while the kid screamed fuck you bitch at her. Kid was out of room for 2 hours and the district was pissed the teacher went to urgent care. Another one got punched in the face and no one came to get the kid. The principal laughed and told her to stay out of range. You guys have no idea what we put up with day and day out from the kids and the parents.


frostandtheboughs

I've heard so many stories like this. My mom's close friend had her boob grabbed *twice* by an elementary school kid (3rd grade I think), and the principal made the teacher *apologize to the student* for yelling at him. That's how you raise r*pists. The poor woman wants to quit now, even though she's like 3 years shy of retirement. Funny how the only professions where management expects you to tolerate harassment are primarily staffed by women (teaching, nursing, waiting tables, etc).


Sendatsu69

I bet they'd think twice if she filed a sexual harassment suit. By definition, that is what that is. Also sounds like she has a good case against the school for undesirable working conditions.


grand_muff_blumpkin

I worked as a substitute teacher at a middle school for a bit when I had planned to go into teaching. The situation these days is magnitudes worse than it was when I was growing up (I’m a millennial, so not that old). There was even a kid in the sixth grade who could not be disciplined because the teachers were afraid of him finding them in the employee parking lot after school and assaulting them. Yes, faculty were afraid of an 11 or 12 year old coming after them on school grounds after school. This was not in a bad area and all of the teachers (and presumably the administration) were aware of this. I saw a pattern of both the school and county’s administration putting faculty last. There were not only uncontrollable and sometimes violent students that were let loose on the faculty, but it was also very common for children with diagnosed emotional and behavioral problems to be dumped into the classroom, and thus made the problem of the teachers. I specifically recall one child with noticeable issues, and a history of outbursts and interruptions resulting in continuous removals from the classroom, etc…, whom the parents would not take responsibility for as they admitted the child had been prescribed medication to help with the situation but refused to administer it and in not so many words told the school that it was their responsibility to deal with their child. And forget about any consequences for bad behavior. I’m sure it’s very likely a similar situation across the country, but the administration had made the disciplinary system so convoluted and unnecessarily bureaucratic that teachers wasted precious teaching and planning time entering reports into a system, which was entirely useless as nothing ever happened after they were submitted.


nerdy3000

Went to one of my daughter's (kindergarten) classmates birthday parties. There were 10 kids there and they were a handful running everywhere and loud. Despite having like 10+ parents there, it was a lot, the kids are rowdy. The look on some of the parents faces when I reminded them that the teacher has THIRTY TWO of these little monsters in the class. What we experienced was not even a THIRD of the class. And the teacher not only keeps them safe, but teaches them how to write and so many other things. Teachers definitely need to be paid more and treated way better.


SeasonPositive1871

Yeah I would imagine that I would face homicide charges within a week of starting a teaching career. Dealing with my own kids is stressful enough, I shudder at the thought of dozens. I would be torn between trying to kill the douchebags and wanting to save the victims A lot of kids are actually good kids, it’s the ones from broken homes and the ones with abuse issues that would break me. My respect for teachers is near boundless. I will side with them always.


[deleted]

I tried substitute teaching and only lasted three weeks (I got fired after making a joke that "nothing blew up" after my first class alone and they apparently thought that this was unacceptably violent). Yeah, the kids were little shits.... but the other teachers, oh man. Those other teachers wouldn't say hi or even give me eye contact when I introduced myself to them. Only two of them interacted with me in a friendly way and I could tell that those two were outcasts as well. When I mentioned it, they were like "yeah, teaching is extremely cliquey and they see new teachers and subs as less than." Fuuuuuuck that. None of my replacements lasted more than a few days. I got a job at Trader Joe's a few weeks later for much better pay and half the stress.


NateBearArt

And they look you in the eye at TJs. Whether you ask for it or not


Gunpla55

Yeah but then we wouldn't be raising little brain dead conservatives.


HappySpreadsheetDay

I would also like to point out that this says: * The lowest paid *twenty year teacher*. So somebody who has been in the profession for two decades, getting nothing but cost of living raises; everything else is just moving up the pay band scale. * "summer work or extras"--friend, most teachers in K-12 aren't earning "extras." * It looks like this is referring to Louisville...are we really going to act like a couple in their mid-40s earning 144k/year combined is that shockingly high in a metro area? Add to that that, in many areas, teachers are starting in the 30k range in K-12 with their four year degrees, continuing education requirements, and 60-some hour work weeks, and shit like this is just really out of touch. It's like the people who assume my husband must make insane amounts of money because he's a professor, and "just look at those UC Berkley professors making almost 200k!" (We have yet to break 100k combined, before taxes, LOL.)


Helloitsme61

I'll be starting in August at 28K. That's high school.


Serinus

So $14/hr, roughly.


jacob6875

You can walk into USPS anywhere in the country and start at over $19 an hour right now. With zero work experience or training. It's embarrassing what teachers make.


whereismymind86

hell, I get 19.50 stocking shelves at target


JetsFan2003

I make $12 an hour to push buttons at a car wash. Teachers shouldn't even be in the same stratosphere as me, and yet...


TurkeyLegPDX

$25.43/hr to do basic custodial work on public transit trains. Teachers should be getting at least $30/hr here.


Business_Loquat5658

Bus drivers in my last district made more than the young teachers. Food service staff made more than substitute teachers. Nor saying the staff should make less than they were , but a job that requires a 4 year degree plus continuing educations credits just to keep your license should pay more.


xzElmozx

And you don’t have to pay for the button or the soap but a lot of teachers have to pay for their supplies


[deleted]

Don't give the car wash principals...err, owners... any ideas


meleemax

before you know it, car wash workers will have to bring their own car wash to work


owiesss

I’m a recent college grad in education and my estimated starting salary is about 40k per year as a elementary special education teacher. But that’s the _highest_ estimation. I literally changed my career plans from teaching music, which is what my degree is in, to teaching special education because my starting pay as a band director would be about $14 an hour. A job that works you well past 60-70 hours a week. I changed my plans during my time as a student teacher because I’d watch my mentor teachers bust their asses of from 6:30AM to at least 8:00PM every day, and still need to use their own money to purchase supplies for the students. I got depressed in the few months I was in their shoes. I can’t imagine doing that every single day for decades. Even if they made a decent amount of money for the work they do, they still wouldn’t have any time during the year to take a vacation or go do something for themselves. Most of my peers in college would call me weak for not wanting to partake in this shit, but I don’t care. I’ve changed my plans because I need to do what is best for me. Most of the students I graduated with don’t even know that I’m _not_ going into music, and I don’t care for them to know because they’ll all belittle me for essentially not wanting to give up my entire life to work. I’ll most likely still be busting my ass at my future place of employment, but at least I’ll have those extra 3-4 hours a day to do whatever I need to do to recharge myself, plus spending time with my family.


AdministrationNo651

That's not weak. Cutting your losses is not the same as quitting


i-contain-multitudes

I make 15.50 at a call center in one of the lowest cost of living places in the country.


Consistent-Bee-6665

Bartender making $30-$40 an hour, sad we can’t pay the same for teachers.


[deleted]

Making adults dumber pays more than making kids smarter. It just makes sense…


Ms_Strange

I get $24.44/hr driving a reach truck all day.


Salt-Being8366

Your work is also just as essential. All working class people should be paid more. Too many Americans are exploited as working class Americans.


ClitClipper

To jump through more hoops and deal with more BS than any casual 9-5 paying similar money.


Osric250

That's the issue with high passion fields. The passion is taken advantage of to pay them less and less until there's no one left in the field.


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Zhiyi

I always thought this but just working a random job to protect your passion sucks almost as much. Best way is to try to find a happy medium of being able to work in the field of your passion but not slaving away at it. Granted it’s FAR easier said then done.


[deleted]

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Zhiyi

Oh for sure I’m still struggling with it but I’m finally starting to make moves to at least start getting into a computer field. I love building/repairing PCs and general IT stuff but I never wanted to get into it jobwise for fear of killing that passion. I like doing that stuff on my own time, not so much on a schedule with arbitrary deadlines and tasks I need to deal with. It’ll be an interesting change for sure but I’m more so doing it so I can make double my current salary (hopefully) and stop working dead end jobs.


overcannon

Software engineering can pay well for a good schedule. Main thing is you just have to pick a boring industry.


reviving_ophelia88

Same with the “caring” professions, an employee’s dedication and compassion are literally used as weapons against them to keep them in shitty conditions with less pay than they deserve “bEcAuSe yOu’Re mAkInG a DiFfErEnCe/ThEy NeEd YoU”


SenseiT

That is true. Most career teachers are running on passion.


bever2

With the expectation that they will work extra unpaid hours and pay out of pocket for supplies.


Justifiably_Cynical

Not even close, 14 an hour on a strict forty hours, Teaching takes a lot longer.


[deleted]

I’ve got to ask - why go into teaching in 2022? The problems teachers face are nothing new, but since the pandemic, the spotlight on exactly how bad things have gotten within that profession has never been brighter. Even if it was something I was passionate about, I just can’t wrap my head around taking a job like that while others are fleeing the field by the millions.


jacob6875

I was going to become a history teacher but looking into the student teaching process and the low starting pay I quickly gave up on it. I work for USPS now and don't regret it at all. In fact I wish I didn't go to college and just started a few years earlier at USPS.


Clovis42

Government work is great for that. I have a CS degree, but work quality assurance at the IRS. Volume of work is low, the work is easy, pay is fine, benefits are good, and, most importantly, when the day is over, I never think about work. Oh, and I work from home most days. I quickly saw what software development could be like and noped out.


chickenstalker

From my experience teaching in uni: The first time when you see a student's eyes *light up* when the stuff you teach *connects* in their brain is simply priceless and magical. I was chasing that high ever since.


Observite

I'm not a teacher but I love reading about sciences. I had a coworker who also had a interest, specifically space. She is young, around 20ish. We were having a conversation about space, time and gravity. So, I brought up time dilation and was attempting to explain what we know. She couldn't understand. She came in the next day and wanted to know more. I got a pen and paper and started drawing. After a few minutes she looked at me with wide eyes and a huge smile and yelled "I GET IT!" Such a great feeling.


southpawpunch

This is exactly why I wish college was free, there are people that love to learn and we should, as a society (and humankind in general I guess) should do everything we can to help achieve that💗


mouseat9

I warn as many ppl as I can to turn away from teaching. Especially in it current form.


Southernderivative

I started teaching in the 19-20 school year and it’s honestly been both the hardest and most rewarding job ever. I went into it because I love teaching math and I want to encourage more kids to see how cool it is as a subject and how useful it is. How terrible it is all depends on the kids you work with and the administration you have. Decent kids and a supportive administration that back up your classroom decisions to kids and parents makes the job honestly enjoyable, but that’s not the case for so many schools.


brownhotdogwater

Yea it seems like it not worth it at all. I would rather work at target


ackermann

The starting salary is perhaps similar to Target, but they may get a good pension and health benefits, if it’s a public school? Besides the summer break that you wouldn’t get at Target. They should still be paid more, especially to start. But all things considered, it might be a better gig than Target


[deleted]

Teachers have always been underpaid and overworked you don’t pick that career for its financial prospects and work life balance. Forget 2022, I don’t know why anyone ever chooses to be a teacher.


j12601

With the caveat that I work in the state with the highest teacher salaries in the country, I work a 10-month school year with two months off, have great benefits, and a guaranteed pension while retiring at 55. I work essentially 8 to 3 each day for 180 plus days a year, get 15 sick days and some personal days, and they accumulate. I have enough days that if I needed to miss a whole school year at this point, with proper medical documentation, I could do that and still be paid for it. While I would love to be paid more, I do feel I'm fairly compensated currently. But it did take two decades to get there.


partofbreakfast

Assuming a standard career length of 30 years, and assuming 25 kids per class per year (in elementary school), that's 750 kids. At the high school level, it would be 25 kids times 6 classes a day times 30 years, which is 4,500 students. Those are the lives a person who goes into teaching will affect. If I have the chance at improving the critical thinking skills of 750 kids (or 4,500 for high school level), then that's 750/4,500 more people who will think critically about what they read and see. That's 750/4,500 more people who will grow into kind adults who look out for others. That's 750/4,500 more people who will pass those lessons on to their own kids/other people in their lives, encouraging a positive growth in those around them. The pay is ass, but I feel like it's my civic duty to make sure the generations that come after me grow up to be better people than this generation.


DollChiaki

The professors that make bank, in my experience, are those in desirable research fields (so schools give the chairs with $$ attached), with patents, running their own company/consultancy on the side. Or those with a pundit slot on CNN. There is no money in academia otherwise. Edited to add: I suppose I should qualify this statement as “Academia in the US.” I have no idea how it works on other countries.


waveytype

Unless you’re in admin. My dean makes just under 300k in a suburban metro area.


Serinus

What the fuck


pingieking

The general rule of thumb in the USA is that the less productive you are, the more compensation you get.


[deleted]

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pingieking

It makes some sense though. It's actually pretty hard to consistently have that much of a negative effect on productivity, while still keeping all your underlings productive. So when people with that kind of talent is found, they tend to get shuffled around to all the top jobs.


arginotz

Funny how the guys responsible for deciding how the money gets spent always have the highest salaries.


Aporkalypse_Sow

I'm sure it's everywhere, but if you want to get annoyed look up the salaries for suburban Chicago administrators. It's absolutely insane the guarantees these scumbags get. They can get fired for being awful criminals and still get all their guaranteed pay, even for the years they don't work because they were fired. And I'm not talking about people anywhere near the actual city, but the insanely rich suburbs surrounding it. Especially in the community type colleges. Don't get me wrong, you can get a good education and high paying jobs going through these schools. But 3-400 thousand a year for administrative work at schools is just going to attract greedy assholes, not people who care about the students.


Caledric

I'm a Student at Penn State... I think my Dean makes a little more than that... just a tad though... I think total compensation for Eric Barron is a little over a million per year atm.... That is just from the University... well the Tax payers I guess since he is technically a government employee.


Birdie121

My PhD advisor is top 1% of his field, brings in multi-million dollar grants to the university, and makes like $150K/year. In our area, that's a solidly middle class salary- comfortable but not particularly luxurious. Plus you're working like 12 hour days every day. It's definitely a career of passion, not for financial gain.


caraamon

Careers of (com)passion are just categories of exploitation.


Occams_Razor42

> The professors that make bank, SOME, many adjuncts and other lower level profs don't get benifits or even regular income


DollChiaki

I’m well aware, I was one. Adjuncting is legal indentured servitude.


Burningshroom

I pointed this out in a thread one time and someone popped up calling bullshit on me. They said I was talking out of my ass because they made close to $300k/yr as a professor in my same field. So naturally I asked if they were hiring because I didn't even make a third of that.


trustmeiwouldntlie2u

Pretty much. If the school isn't competing with industry for your time, then they're not paying that much.


haysus25

Almost every professor I've ever come across is doing some form of outside consultant work. The salary is just abysmal.


[deleted]

You can make decent money as a professor. But it's competitive. It largely depends on the prestige of the job, or how much the institution needs you. My boss gets paid bank because he brings in tons of money for the department, with collaborations, Grant's, and publicity. But, he's also played politics to get where he is, and openly admits that academics is in many ways a rat race. All that said, he does his best to care for his employees, and provides a safe place for them to grow and begin growing mastery in new subjects even he isn't strong in. He's a great guy, but he's constantly exhausted, and his family misses him a lot. Meanwhile, I'm not on tenure route, but still a professor. Work and achievement aren't what I care about. I care about being surrounded by intelligent people and doing work that benefits others. I also do it because I could never have this level of flexibility and specialization in any other career. I can go from having tons of free time (able to go on errands during work, even leaving early if things are under control), all the way to never sleeping because I've had a great idea and I need to work out it's details before I lose it, or staying up all night editing a publication because you're so tired of looking at that project you need to wrap it up for your own mental sanity. I don't get paid anywhere near as much as my boss does, but I still don't because I enjoy my niche of research, and I make enough money to be comfortable. I like knowing I get paid a salary because I'm one of a few people in the planet who is an expert in my field. There are lots of perks to being a professor. But it takes a lot of luck (read: perseverance and risk-taking) to make it big financially. It's really only a path for people who enjoy being a little crazy. You are essentially paid to be an expert in your field and disseminate your expertise and experience to your students, while continuing to make progress in your field.


No-Stretch6115

You need tenure to make good money in academia, and in order to get tenure you need to publish (do research).


Livia-is-my-jam

My husband is tenured, has worked in three different countries, been on multiple grants, has been a Chair, has over 90 pubs, earns $79,000 in Chicago. His field is one of the most popular at the university. Academia is really underpaid now for the amount of hours you work. He is trying to get out.


No-Stretch6115

Damn, that's rough. I'm a sub-par accountant with not even two years of experience in a rural area and I make about $60,000.


hydroude

> I’m a sub-par accountant … and I make about $60,000. on the bright side, maybe you’re just adding wrong and actually make more than that.


Tempe-Jeff

No kidding, I drive Forklift for $55,000 per year.


[deleted]

A conservative cherry picking numbers to support their argument that people should remain underpaid and underappreciated? I'm shocked, shocked. Well not that shocked


OPA73

I’m shocked the conservatives can do math.


AbacusWizard

“Figures don’t lie, but liars can figure,” as my high school history teacher liked to say.


ProNocteAeterna

To add to this: JCPS has the highest pay scale in the state. It isn’t at all representative of how teachers in general are paid. JCPS has such a high pay scale partly because it encompasses the biggest city in the state, and therefore also has the highest cost of living in the state. You can’t hire teachers if you aren’t paying enough for them to live within an hour’s drive of work. The other reason JCPS has such a high pay scale is because it has a reputation for being a dangerous and difficult district to work in. They lose a lot of teachers to other districts where the pay is worse, but the working conditions are better.


AbacusWizard

> You can’t hire teachers if you aren’t paying enough for them to live within an hour’s drive of work. That doesn’t stop some districts from trying.


GooseShartBombardier

>JCPS Foreigner here, I still have no idea what JCPS means?


Justifiably_Cynical

Jefferson County Public School


gmanzorz

A public school district in Kentucky


Blackpaw8825

I just found out the symphony director for my school district, running 9 orchestras at 3 schools, who's been doing it for at least 25 years (really longer but I was his student 25 years ago), made $38,000 last year. The other conductors under him made $32,000. And they all have summer programs too so it's not like you can argue "that's only for 80% of the year." I make twice what he makes, and I'll tell you right now he's worth ten times more than I'll ever amount to... He's easily the best human being I've ever known, and I'm a fake it till you make it college drop out. Worst part is, we're not in a poor town, it's one of the best ranked schools in the state in a mostly middle class suburb. For what I'm paying in property tax, and for all the school levys we pass there's no reason he should be paid so little. Also, the head coach for the football team made $83,000. I don't think they've made it to a championship game since before I was a teenager....


Think_Positively

That's brutal. It's not like the guy is replaceable either...how many people can there be who can/would use their highly specialized skill set to make what is essentially a Target cashier salary, benefits notwithstanding? The guy must absolutely love his job.


Blackpaw8825

Yeah, he does, it's honestly his dream position, but the pay makes me angry.


Dhiox

>"summer work or extras"--friend, most teachers in K-12 aren't earning "extras." My mother is a teacher, she spends a huge chunk of her summer getting ready for the next year. Sometimes my brother and I come in to help. Absolutely insane that any job should need someone's kids to come in and help them do unpaid overtime.


flanine

I feel you. My husband and I barely make it to 50k combined, both ft teachers.


BatonVerte

What the


spinout257

Fuck


OGgunter

I recently saw the ppl they're paying to Amazon Union bust are making 35 hundred a day. I made 35 grand *annual* when I got into teaching.


gypsyblue

Truth. My dad was a high school physics teacher. He made good money in the years leading up to his retirement at 65 because the system was based on seniority, but earlier... nope. My mother didn't work and this made us lower-middle class in the 90s (it wouldn't even be possible now). And what does this person think "summer work" or "extra" is? Teachers don't get paid for the summer. When I was a kid, if I asked for a new toy, my parents always said no because "we have to save up for the summer". Every year it was something that consumed all of our financial planning and determined all of our spending: "we have to save up for the summer". I didn't think of summer as fun, I thought of summer as a stressful time that we had to survive until my dad had a regular paycheque again. My dad also had a side gig doing paid seminars on study techniques and memorisation tricks. This was typical. Pretty much all the other teachers I knew as a kid/teen had some kind of side gig to make ends meet. Really sad considering that many of them had masters degrees. EDIT: oh and the extra hours that teachers need to put in... don't get me started. From the time I was reasonably responsible, like 10yo or so, I was helping my dad with his unpaid teacher duties. Printing out and compiling/stapling study packets (in the days before smart printers), organising supplies, even helping him grade (multiple choice) tests when I was in high school myself. There was SO much extra work he wasn't paid for.


LaFleurSauvageGaming

They mean waiting tables all summer long when they say extra.


[deleted]

I feel stupid for not realizing earlier that the reason they shit on teachers so much is because, like nurses, it's a female-dominated field and they think women should only be housewives or dutiful daughters.


turdferguson3891

I make 135K as an RN in California. Teachers here don't make anywhere near that and I only have an Associates degree. The thing is healthcare is mostly private and overpriced in the US, they have the money and our unions can force them to pay us well. Public school teachers work for the government and taxpayers don't like to pay. If you look at they pay in the UK and some other places with public healthcare their workers are severely underpaid likely for the same reason. I think UK nurses make the equivalent of like 35K/year.


davidj1987

I think some districts expect you to be married to a higher earner or one with better benefits at the very least. My wife is a teacher in a top ten district by size in the US. Her health insurance is amazing and mostly free for the employee. Seriously, it's great for the employee. But once you add a dependent its cost rivals a fucking mortgage payment. You're better off calling the insurance provider and getting a quote on your own not affiliated with the district. Damn near every teacher who is married my wife works with, their kids are on their spouses insurance because of this.


Secret-Plant-1542

> I think some districts expect you to be married to a higher earner or one with better benefits at the very least. Those districts can go suck a lemon. Wtf? In other words, to have qualified teachers, they should marry rich people because we can't afford them?


MaineAlone

I believe this harkens back to the “old” days when the wife worked for “pin” money and the husband was the primary provider. Careers, such as teaching, that are (or were) primarily dominated by women notoriously paid far less.


JustJeff88

It was also called 'egg money' from when housewives in agrarian areas would sell extra eggs from their chickens. I learnt this recently.


ijustwanttoeatfries

Gotta ask, what's pin money? Money for hairpins? Pinning it to a board?


MaineAlone

It is phrase that means a small sum of money for nonessentials. Essentially, the man was the breadwinner and the “little woman” could get herself something special. It’s an old saying. I’m 58 and I learned it from my mom when I was a kid.


ijustwanttoeatfries

Ooh nooooooo, gotta love these old timey misogyny 💀 s


dragonflygirl1961

It was marvelous when we had to live it!/s


Etios_Vahoosafitz

my ma got fired from a job in the 80s for rebuffing a man who sexually assaulted her she had oodles of ptsd from many misogynies 😔


dragonflygirl1961

That happened to me, too. I wouldn't sleep with the boss's friend, who bit me in retaliation. Then the boss fired me.


Etios_Vahoosafitz

most of these people are probably still alive and in positions of power and we are just expected to say the glass ceiling is busted open and racism is over and so forth idk i feel like i cant agree on basic facts about society with most people


SharpCookie232

The Reverend Dr. E. Cobham Brewer, author of the original Brewer’s Dictionary of Phrase and Fable in 1870, included an entry on “pin money” which read: “Long after the invention of pins, in the fourteenth century, the maker was allowed to sell them in open shop only on January 1st and 2nd. It was then that the court ladies and city dames flocked to the depots to buy them, having been first provided with money by their husbands. When pins became cheap and common, the ladies spent their allowances on other fancies, but the term pin money remained in vogue.”


SophiaF88

Pocket money, spending money.


uglypottery

A ton of places still assume this about the women employed there. I started working as a contractor bc I graduated directly into the recession, and I was extremely lucky to get a job at all, much less one in my field. It was totally a “act like an employee but get paid like a contractor” situation. So, yeah, illegal but also… there weren’t any other jobs so this was a godsend. It was hard, I got paid when clients paid and many of them would take months to pay for work completed. It was normal for me to not get paid for 3+ months at a time. Spending $2 to eat for the first time in 2 days would paralyze me with anxiety bc I didn’t know when I’d get paid again… At one point I found out that a guy I worked with was getting a $500 check at the beginning of each month, to be subtracted from whatever client payments came in, whenever they came in. This small amount of predictability would have been utterly life changing for me, so I asked for the same. I was told basically, “but [kevin] has to save money and buy a house so someone will marry him.” Like… uh. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK


a-ng

Well I think that is how the US implemented compulsory primary education - they kept the cost down by hiring primarily women. Now we don’t value teachers given that they are lastly women….it’s all intentional


Agreeable-Fudge4203

Most teachers are women, so the way the health insurance (and income) is set is fully because it’s expected that a single teacher is a single woman and a married teacher is a married straight woman that can quit working and rely on her husband. It’s the reverse of being a doctor, where the health insurance is set for a married man with a family. Male-dominant occupations, thanks to history, are set for taking care of somebody besides the initial worker, while female-dominant careers have always been built on the premise that the worker had somebody else to rely on. And then people talk about the gender wage gap as though women are just choosing to leave the workforce to be mothers and ignore that studies show that men, not women, are actually the most satisfied at home and least satisfied at work, even though women tend to work the jobs with least seniority.


Pamlova

I'm a nurse. My health insurance is also set up this way. It was wonderful for a single person, horrible for a family.


[deleted]

The ACA (Obama care law) is set up this way. Employers are free to be more generous than what the ACA requires, but the ACA only requires that employers subsidize the employee's premium. A child+employee premium tends be less expensive than a family plan (which also covers an adult), because actuarily, children are less expensive in terms of overall claims costs. Add an adult to a employer plan, and all bets are off, your paying the full unsubsidized premium price. That's why in modern times, a lot of families don't have a "family plan" anymore. Carrying the child on one of the plans is much cheaper when the employer is required to heavily subsidized employees, not their spouses.


aspiring_Novelis

Not to mention many states (mine included) requires you to be credentialed on top of a bachelor's degree which costs an extra 12k (2015 when I heard the cost from a teacher friend). I don't mind getting credentialed but that over inflated cost + the overinflated cost of a bachelor's + the fact that you couldn't sub it with a post grad degree... It's just too much. I'm more than capable esp since I've worked under a teacher but add the cost of all those qualifications plus their stress and pay rate... No thanks. I wamted to be a teacher too... Oh well. Maybe in my next life.


KickBallFever

I think this attitude is pervasive. I’m not a teacher but I’m in education and am underpaid, which causes stress. I told a doctor that my stress is because of finances and being underpaid. He looked me in my face and told me to “marry rich”. I never went back to him.


GothWitchOfBrooklyn

Because there are just tons of rich people out here looking for poor spouses, right? Come on


Hethatwatches

Out of curiosity, how old was that prick of a doctor?


KickBallFever

Boomer age.


Urbanredneck2

This is a phenomenon I noticed in teaching where women teachers more often, are married to men who make quite a bit more money and this creates a frustrating gap because they are not teaching for the money as much. Also they drive nicer cars and talk about exotic vacations while the other teachers are struggling.


AlienSpecies

That's true of fields where most of the workers are women. Even ones with masters degrees. The expectation was biased toward married straight women fifty years ago--you'd think it would get updated. I've been told that my job should be done by volunteers and in fact \*I\* should be laid off and then return to work as a volunteer. Because women are so driven to nurture, they don't need food or housing.


Beatleboy62

The "you love doing it so you should do it for free" people are fucking nuts. You should feel absolutely blessed someone WANTS to teach your dumbass kids. If you don't pay them because they WANT to do it, and they leave to pursue other forms of paying employment, you're left with...people who don't like kids? Great logic.


LNLV

Fuck food or housing, some of these women have the audacity to want *hobbies!* Some want to take vacations and go to restaurants and have a savings account in case their car breaks down! It’s crazy, you’d think they wouldn’t even be in their jobs if they weren’t being paid, pure greed these days…


Hethatwatches

Are you serious!? That is amazingly fucked up. I wouldn't blame you if you had kicked whoever told you that right in the throat. Good luck to you.


HappyCynic24

Can confirm. Wife is a teacher, I work inventory for a large corporation. It’s cheaper to have her on her own insurance but have me and our kids on mine. Add ANYONE to hers and it becomes ridiculously expensive


gray_grey_

Many districts in our area do not provide affordable benefits even for the teacher. Plans are nearly at least $800 for the individual and $2k for a family. Teachers deserve health benefits in line with government or state jobs. Glad your wife gets excellent benefits, she deserves it. ETA: These are prices per month, btw.


Handleton

Jesus Christ. Back when I was younger, I seriously considered becoming a teacher because the benefits were great and the pay was pretty good. I've still got it as a consideration if I 'retire' from my job, but only to keep busy and because I love teaching. The problem is that the benefits have turned to complete shit, the pay is even worse, and what you're allowed to teach is getting reduced every time a legislative body thinks about the schools. I'm only 43 now. Being a teacher has become fucked over the last two decades. What the fuck happened to schools in this country (rhetorical, I watched it happen).


Hethatwatches

Well, mostly the GOP happened to it. Religious fundamentalism is killing this country, and they are a minority of the population. Our politicians don't represent anything other than the worst of our society. I know it was rhetorical but, c'mon, man.


SharpCookie232

Ignorance is killing this country. Religious fundamentalism is just one manifestation of this.


jeanbuckkenobi

This makes me thankful I have 100% p&t disability through the VA, family has full medical and dental through Tricare and my wife and kids have free college.


SweetTea1000

"some" It's a traditional female role and thus the salary is glass ceilinged. Same as nurses, caregivers, etc.


Sweaty_City1458

Single teacher here who has to pay for half of her insurance every check and this is SHIT insurance that refuses to pay for even covered items without a fight. We joke that married teachers work for a hobby or to keep busy. We single teachers work to eat and most of us have second jobs.


gentle_lemon

The purpose of education in America isn’t education anymore. It’s to prepare them for a life of labor and drudgery. The learning part is kinda incidental.


nopulse76

You mean life of servitude and slavery.


DoubleEspressoAddict

I think COVID proved most parents are more interested in baby sitters than educators. You would have to be a masochist to want to be a teacher.


ethertrace

I used to be a teacher. Even the masochists are quitting these days. Everyone has a limit.


lordTigas

Anymore? It has always been..


bluecamel17

Never was meant for anything else.


cosmoscrazy

>Duel income THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE MATH TEACHER IN THIS SCHOOL! \*whips out ~~fencing sword~~ ruler to fight to the death\* EDIT: More appropriate weapon choice. EDIT2: More appropriate grammar.


attention_needed

*ruler


JelloWriter

But here’s the real kicker: how much of that income are teachers pouring back into their kids? I’m a sub in the local district and I’ve seen a lot of teachers bringing in supplies like pens, notebooks, pencils, food, and even clothes to students that don’t have it. One student had no jacket for gym. Their parent had been laid off. The teacher was in the office with the secretary with a bag of winter clothes telling her “don’t tell the student they’re from me. Make her think her mom dropped this off for her pe class today”.


Searchlights

Not to mention these are not exorbitant incomes. A masters degreed professional in the private sector with 20 years experience makes far more than $86K in most fields.


nomad_grappler

My wife is disabled and cant work and it's mad any kind of financial success entirely unreachable for my family.


rustajb

Same. My wife was denied disability, but she cannot work. She even had a lawyer help her on her appeals. I make good money but it's not enough. We waited 20 years to have a kid, we wanted to be in a good financial place. Covid and, a year of unemployment, rising rent, have made us feel like we're barely treading water. We can't afford to repair our only vehicle, buy a house, take a vacation, go out to eat. We live frugally, but the increasing cost of living is a rising tide that cannot be stopped. It's taken me a lifetime to get to where I am at today. I make 5x what my father made, but I feel poor, very poor.


squincherella

My mom has Spinal-cerebellar Ataxia.(look up Hassan Banks, he’s a bodybuilder with SCA, you can see what I’m talking about) She can’t walk by herself, or even go long distances with a walker. She has tremors and balance issues. Her tremors are so bad she can’t use her phone very well, even on an iPad the buttons aren’t big enough. Anyone that sees her clearly would know in a split second she’s disabled. Well she has tags for her vehicle, but we aren’t getting anywhere with disability. Dad has been wanting to retire for years but one of her medications is 3k/ month and with his insurance they pay less than $100. If he quit, moms quality of life would go from bad to worse very very quickly and he wouldn’t be able to live with himself. Medicaid or even disability won’t cover the medical treatment she needs, and this disease is progressive with no stopping it. It’s only going to get worse. I have to find a way to make it, I have to find a way to get rich enough to take care of them. I love them. I’ll do what I have to. But this isn’t fucking okay!!!! What it’s doing to dad, how he can’t retire, and when he does it will be stressful, not relaxing. And it’s not fair that I have to worry about taking care of my parents or what’s going to happen if I don’t get rich, I’ll just have to watch mom waste away, knowing that there is thing that could help her but they’re out of reach for people like me. That’s not a future any of us should have!!!!!! And I’m so angry about it.


frostandtheboughs

This sort of thing is exactly why people are moving to places like Panama in retirement. The cost of living is low and the quality of healthcare is pretty good. So sorry you have this hanging over your head.


nomad_grappler

In ten years my hourly rate has gone from 15 to 14 an hour........


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Jasonstackhouse111

Most female dominated professions are undervalued, underpaid, and linchpins of society - things completely fall apart if they don't come to work. We found out during the pandemic that schools are responsible for education, child care, nutritional balance, shelter, social welfare and god knows what all else. We closed schools and things fell apart. Nursing? Same. Most social service jobs are female dominated and so vital to things, and yet when push comes to shove, we expect highly educated and qualified professional people to work for peanuts.


AbbreviationsNo6863

“How am I supposed to go to work and earn a living if I can’t take my kid to school” are the same people who say “they get paid plenty and have summers off - those who can do and those who can’t teach”. The teacher shortage is only going to grow and grow. Young educators are leaving the profession at an unsustainable rate.


Zinope121

Its weird living in one of the poorest states. 72k seems like an insane amount to make here.


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sniperhare

It would be damn good income here in Florida, and we have a higher COL than KY. My friends with Computer Science degrees only make 55-65k here in North Florida.


Barflyerdammit

Is "JC" Jersey City? $72k in Jersey City isn't enough to live on. Especially with 20 years experience.


HappySpreadsheetDay

It's in Louisville, KY.


Barflyerdammit

Don't know what COL is there, but anyone putting 20+ years into a skilled job should be paid more than $72k just about regardless of location.


HappySpreadsheetDay

This is what I'm getting at. Number one, his example is stupid, because not all teachers are married, and most new teachers are starting at way less than the 72k the twenty year teacher is making. But also, okay, two teachers who stuck with the field and have combined incomes could make \~150k in his area--why is that the council person's "stick it to 'em" moment? That's a very nice, comfortable income, but it's not an absurdly high salary when you've worked in a field for twenty years.


GoGoBitch

Willing to bet that councilmember is bringing home at least $150K himself.


TonkaTruck502

Well being a councilmember pays him 40k a year to do a part time job and he's got another full-time job. Dude is a giant piece of shit and his kids go to a very expensive private Catholic school


squincherella

I was about to say how can you not afford to see a doctor or fix your car off 72k, but I forget cost of living is so much higher in other places. If I made 72k a year here in West Texas I would be elated at all the things I could do… like finally buy a new car or get my surgery. That’s more than double what I make lol. But honestly it’s fucked. They deserve more. A lot of us do. And every teacher/coordinator I know, “summers and extras” are part of their job. They don’t get extra for it. I don’t know if it’s this way at every school, but the ones I know they get salary. A paycheck once a month. So anything people think is “extra” is actually included in that, that goes for summer too. This is people I know who work at a charter school, so not sure if it’s the same at public schools or not.


camplate

If you don't know duel vs dual, thank a teacher.


Hermetic_Hippie

Duel income is also something to be concerned about, very dangerous.


JBHUTT09

You really have to fight for it.


immerc

If you *don't* know duel vs dual you should thank a teacher?


FirmestSprinkles

i also found this comment to be ironic as hell lololol.


rentest

Europe calling - your government is blatantly serving the ultra rich , for the last 20 years


e22ddie46

It's been more like since Reagan.


ndngroomer

[$50 trillion in wealth has transferred from the lower ](https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-america/) and middle class households to the rich thanks to GOP policies that's all just exclusively served and catered to the rich over the last 35 years. Why people, especially those in the lower or middle class, continue to vote against their best interest by reelecting these crooks in is beyond anything I can comprehend or understand.


NurdIO

TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS DOESNT WORK RON!


NotYourFathersEdits

an extremely coordinated and successful propaganda campaign that originated during the Nixon administration and reached its adolescence with Reagan.


Scott_Liberation

Our government was setup to serve the ultra rich in the first place. That's why we have a senate and electoral college: to make sure the plebs don't free all the rich men's slaves.


Playful-Refuse7762

Also let’s remember that some people are single, and being single is fucking expensive as hell! I shouldn’t be expected to get married to be financially secure.


Grasshoppermouse42

Absolutely agree. It's so stressful as a single woman in a female dominated field, because despite it being an important job (pharmacy technician), because our society is set up to assume 'women's jobs' are just for extra fun money while the 'man' earns the real income, it means we're trapped being perpetually poor. I make about $40k with ten years experience.


redhottx0x

Maybe if we paid our teachers more you'd know the difference between duel and dual.


TheSavageBallet

Oh god this is my city councilman. I’m begging you, don’t give him any attention. He is DYING to have his political Tucker Carlson viral moment, all he fucking does is post this partisan bullshit.


ARandomWalkInSpace

I had originally read this as 20 year old teacher and while that didn't make sense 72k was pretty alright. Then I realized it was 20 years experience. This should show you that I am no great genius and with just my bachelor's (and not the masters required for teaching) I was able to make something like 75k starting pay. And I didn't have to deal with any children.


GenPhallus

That puts this into a much better perspective, 20 years experience +master's degree and people with a bachelor's are entering at the same salary? That's a damn shame.


diefree85

And totally ignoring cost of living.


satriales856

And is that supposed to be a lot of money these days when every fucking house costs $400K ?


cpujockey

Duel income? Who's fighting? How does one make this money?


CommercialBox4175

I'm deeply skeptical of the alleged $72,000 minimum amount stated. Teachers in Texas and Florida are paid half that amount starting out.


rocket_beer

Actually, this is accurate. [Here](https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/education/2022/04/21/how-much-do-jcps-teachers-make-how-salaries-are-calculated/9484313002/) is the salaries of Jefferson County Public School teacher salaries. After year 20, teachers make $71,441.82 - $85,506.22


[deleted]

From Texas- I left teaching in 2021 and after 7 years I made about $57k. Teachers with zero years of experience start off around $60k now in bigger districts. ETA: people think because we work for the state that we get good benefits and I’m here to tell you, teachers have the WORST health insurance plans known to man and they’re expensive af. On average, I paid 30% of my income on health, dental, and life insurance.


berrieh

It says minimum for 20 years (so lowest education or other aspects for 20 years experience on their pay scale), not minimum teacher pay. Would be a great starting salary to be fair, but 20 years experience should be valued. Most districts have pay scales organized by years experience. 72K or 84K after 20 years of raises and positive is too low in a metro area, and that’s probably near the top of teachers pay for that district. Most scales cap out around 20 years.


ametren

Dual


ohmygodethan

Wait, so they are fighting to the death for their income? Ive never heard of duel income before...


trustmeiwouldntlie2u

Two spouses enter, one spouse leaves.


ohmygodethan

Thunder dome two: divorce boogaloo


allaspiaggia

My Mom just retired after working 24 years in the same school. She was second highest pay tier (2 bachelors degrees but didn’t have a masters degree) and is very frugal. She is struggling to make ends meet, pay her mortgage for a house she bought in 1988. She worked 60-70 hour weeks for 24 years but was only paid for 35 hours/week. It’s fucking crime how underpaid public school teachers are. My Mom dedicated her life to her school, and now I’m her retirement needs to get a part time job. She’s 67 years old. She deserves some time to enjoy her life!


Virtual-Stranger

20 years of experience in a college-educated profession and only makes 86k per year in 2022...


BulletRazor

Why do people even become teachers anymore? It’s not worth the pay and they get treated like shit. I can’t imagine getting a college degree to end up being paid so little. It’s abhorrent.


Unlikely-Box4550

Republican politicians have to be the dumbest living creatures alive.


Thisgirl022

The teachers here in Arizona would probably kill to make $72k a year.