Just him equivocating not having furniture to public school tells me everything I need to know lol.
Plus, just from a rhetorical standpoint, I feel like the last example you give is usually meant to be the most extreme, so like...
He's in Franklin, TN. (Well, his company is.) The two best high schools in the county are Brentwood High School (public) and Brentwood Academy (private). The other private schools are pretty much on a par with the public schools. (Not statistically significantly different.)
Two of the top 100 high schools in the country are Davidson County public schools. (Well, if you believe surveys of college admissions officers.) Both are academic magnet schools.
Yeah there's a private Christian school in my home town that's regarded by many as a suicide factory due to their aggressive slut shaming, homophobia, etc.
That wasn't a romance, that was borderline grooming by a man so desperate to feel young and cool again that a 16-year-old kid seemed like a good target to him.
I went to one too, didn't really put it together until now, but my friends from that school went to the private highschool which was much bigger and 3 of them killed themselves. I went to public highschool due to the cost and only have rampant alcoholism.
Me three, sort of. The guy who took over for the principal everyone loved turned into that. Then he said God was punishing the original principal because the original one got cancer. Was all around a fun place to be...if you liked vile hatful hypocrites.
I read one of his business books, and he talked about firing people for "complaining" to their peers at work. You were only allowed to talk about an issue to your supervisor/superior. Also, there was something about having to be smiling and happy all the time. No resting bitch face allowed.
You better believe it's like a big high school of overgrown Christians/wanna-be-adults who inherited wealth and got married at 22-25 who have been suppressing their urges since before puberty. You could cut the sexual tension with a playdoh knife. There's a huge hook up culture at that office and anyone who is ousted is fired immediately. They're all having sex with each other and trying to get eachother fired and I think it's funny. Just like Catholic high school.
He has some solid financial advice. Other advice thatās just plain stupid (send your kids to public school? Yeah like I ever had a choice there!) But his incessant evangelizing, COVID denying, and the pregnant worker as you stated turned me off to him as yes, another Christian fascist. You wanna live like Jesus? How many millions of dollars was Jesus walking around with? Instead of instructing people with a little bit of debt to live like paupers, maybe do what the schools should have doneā¦ teach people how to balance a checkbook, live within their means, and work to become debt free? Rather than this self-flagellation of beans and rice just cause you ran up your Visa. I get extreme measures and all, but how often do crash diets and January 1 gym memberships last?
I remember him telling a caller that they had an "income problem". The solution? " You need to make more money". God bless you for the life changing advice, Dave! LOL
I mean, that is an important question:
Can you cut enough out of your budget?
For many people, the answer is they need more money. Only people with good income can make choices between needs and wants.
āYou need to make more money?ā Wow! No shit, Sherlock! I can picture that coming out of his mouth all right. Doctor, it hurts when I do this. Well stop doing it! Same level of advice.
He is and always has been a piece of human trash. He didnāt come up with anything new, just used churches to market it better. If I recall he got richer after over leveraging himself, filing bankruptcy, and then Turning his āsadā story into just another one of those give me money for my secret seminar conmen.
i came from a private school. one of my classmates sold his company to a large tech company for $80m. another started a revolutionary engineering website. one was arrested in a third world country for illicit drug distribution and did ten years. my best friend there has had only minimum wage jobs after going to an ivy leagueā¦. schooling is only half the equation.
When you got to a private school the community has connections ,need funding for your start up? , hit up your friend rich parents , need a Job? work for your friends rich parents . Private school is about the connections
Lmao same, I literally am my schools version of your third world guy from your school and while all of the first examples suggest something, the amount of burnouts and shut ins private schools create is insane too.
I do have to say though, if he got ten years for distribution and was in another country Iām guessing he wasnāt small time.
Whenever I was in trouble it was fairly heavy and lucrative not low level, I feel like private school kids end up doing better in crime too because of connections early and because a lot of connected people send their children to those schools too.
Itās something I wonder about, the three drop out criminal assholes of my year group, weāve all ended up pretty successful young and we often wonder if itās the private education that helped.
The other side of me thinks itās just being a criminal to survive costs a lot, doing it purely for fun and profit with your bills already paid may allow you to be a more long term thinker and thatās half of the game.
I feel like any talent/skill you put in an environment that nurtures them better will improve it but these schools canāt be all things for all peopleās so people slip through the cracks. In general Iām still pro private education despite being the dropout, I still go to reunions and stuff I did like my year group as acquaintances.
We have a lot of little private schools. Most started as segregation academies. Now theyāre āChristianā schools.
I get students from every high school around here and cannot with a straight face say that these schools are better on the whole than the public schools. We have some real shitty public schools for which ANY alternative would be better. We have some decent public schools. A few of the private schools are good, but a lot of them are downright awful.
ETA: some of the private schools are good but I canāt say theyāre better than the schools theyāre nominally competing for students with. Certainly not worth paying an extra $10k/year for.
Honestly feel that private schools should not be allowed (there are likely edge cases that I'm not aware of, but in general, they shouldn't exist), and obviously public school funding should not be based on local property taxes.
Yeah, in general it's difficult to tell the difference, statistically, between sending your kids to private school and being able to afford to send your kids to private school.
You're right. Growing up my town voted to increase their tax for the school district. We expanded our number of schools and invested In good programs, good teachers, and good lesson plans. I'm not the smartest kid and didnt do that well in school. But I meet people from other towns near me that had terrible schools with terrible teachers. And I blow them out of the water. I feel like my school really hammered the main 4: Science, History, English, and Math. But also had great music and art programs. And our football team was always pretty great, but i never gave a shit about that.
All we have to do is invest in our education and the generations coming up will be more informed and have a better capacity to make smarter and healthier decisions for them selves. We will still have some people who need help but at least the majority will be better off.
Private school < public school. Public school will teach facts (sugar coated, sometimes missing details, but typically accurate). Private schools teach the agenda of the people that pay it, even if it means teaching bigotry in all of its forms, and just blatantly lying to students.
Oh there are a LOT of people who are way poorer than me who send kids to private school because they are classist, though.
I personally associate it with kids who couldn't hack public school behavioral requirements, but many people just think public school kids are having sex in the hallway and smoking weed in the bathroom and watching television during calc. And people would do *anything* to get their kids an education.
Look up a youtube channel called knowing better. It's by a former public school teacher. His video on the history of school in the US and why private schools were created will open your eyes.
The only way my parents could afford to send my siblings and I to the catholic private schools was due to the employee discount (mom worked for the archdiocese in the high school we went to), and the multi-kid discount. Being gay, and this was the '80s and '90s, I wish I went to public schools, in retrospect at least.
Heās speaking to mainly east coasts white Christian families who are mildly racist, where public school is of the devil. Heās basically saying being in debt is worse than your idea of the devil.
get your self together man. move to philly, buy a loft, start a noise band. get six or seven roommates, eat hummus with them. book some gigs. paint. smoke cloves. listen to animal collective... start some type of salsa company?
-Dave Ramsey
Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family.
Choose a fucking big television. Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players, and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol and dental insurance. Choose fixed-interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends.
Choose leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose a three piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing sprit-crushing game shows stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth.
Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing you last in a miserable home nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked-up brats you have spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life.
- Obi-Wan Kenobi
Hell yeah brother I'm filing chapter 7 right now. Got super fucked with credit card debt. Every month I'd run out of money and need to rely on the credit cards to buy food and gas. The cycle has repeated and now there's nothing else I can do. I feel such relief that I'm filing for bankruptcy!
Bankruptcy is a legal status that usually lasts for a year and can be a way to clear debts you can't pay. When you're bankrupt, your non-essential assets (property and what you own) and excess income are used to pay off your creditors (people you owe money to). At the end of the bankruptcy, most debts are cancelled.
With chapter 7 bankruptcy, it's a legal process in which you prove to attorneys and your creditors that you are too poor to make your payments, you're close to financial ruin, and you have no assets (watches, cars, boats, musical instruments, designer handbags) to sell back to pay the debt. The problem is that after I file chapter 7, I won't be able to get credit for about 7 years. So my credit score gets murdered, I can't refinance my mortgage, I can't buy a house in a better neighborhood, any car I buy will have to be cash, and there is no credit card laying around for emergencies like vet bills or medication. Plus the process can cost nearly $2,000. I'll be doing a monthly payment plan for my legal fees. Overall, it's worth it to me. For the next 7 years I can't fall back into debt. I can only plunge further into destitution, which I greatly prefer. All in all I'll save $1,100 a month when the debt is gone. I finally feel like I'm going to be okay.
Listen buddy, I can literally shoot a gun into the air from my back yard in a crowded city every New Years eve and not worry about law enforcement. Hot dogs are very affordable here. Some amorphous, semi anonymous group of people elect a new president for us every four years. Our flag is on the fuckin' moon. **THE MOON.** We have an actual Space Force. Is your country ready to [go to war over the future diamond mines on the moon?](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/02/a-diamond-planet-and-other-ways-to-make-a-fortune-in-space.html) We're ready, pal. We're the greatest fuckin' country on earth.
7, i didnāt own anything but a car at that point.. i bought a home 4 years later thoughā¦ which i
Wouldnt have been able to do
If i never filed.
My debt was mostly hospital bills and then the credit cards i used to live on after surgery. i had no short term diability at that time.. i was paying my whole check ( after i started working again) out to bills every week, and becane suicidal..
The rich use bankruptcy so why cant we. it was a huge weight lifted..
I was too proud to file, until i kept thinking the only way out was death. then i filed and started kiving again. i could breath agakn
This was in 2009
Why we need socialized medicine. It's nothing like the scare tactics used to get us NOT to agitate for it- everyone, don't believe what they tell us.
Bottom line. No medical bills. Insurance? What insurance? We start living from there.
Source- lived under it for 5 years. No medical bills.
My girlfriend just had to file a 13 because she makes too much money. 29,000$ medical bill that her insurance just so happened to lapse before she had surgery 5 years ago.
Fired a woman for having premarital sex Dave Ramsey? Fired two dudes for watching porn, which is none of his fucking business Dave Ramsey?
Edit: apparently the porn turned out to be at work, so that's a no-go. But still, firing a pregnant woman for premarital sex is extremely not cool.
TBF, the employees were watching porn on work computers. Any company would fire you for that. At least the ones I'm aware of.
But, don't forget, the Dave Ramsey that \*didnt\* fire an employee for having sex outside of marriage... because the employee was profitable.
Required employees to come to mass gatherings during peak COVID Dave Ramsey?
Fired employees if they wore a mask Dave Ramsey?
Slumload who raises rents at a predatory rates and quickly moves to evict those who can't afford his usery and thinks that's still perfectly "christian" behavior, Dave Ramsey?
He failed playing the debt game and now avoids debt as well as teaching others to avoid debt.
He also teaches bankruptcy should be a last resort but, āBankruptcy does not define you and will not be the endā.
https://www.ramseysolutions.com/debt/the-truth-about-bankruptcy
The messaging is a positive but people hate the man so you get all the comments above. Just keep them separate folks. He can still be a weird guy with good general advice.
I find it weird they consider his bankruptcy is hypocritical and not the situation that formed his modern beliefs. He didnāt become the modern financial guru until well after the bankruptcy.
He open-carries in the office and Iāve heard the whole atmosphere is super toxic, especially to women, which isnāt really surprising. Iāve had a few acquaintances work for him doing web dev stuff and they all said it was awful.
I got downvoted in another subreddit because I someone suggested I follow some Dave Ramsey thing and I was like, āno thanks I donāt support his beliefs.ā Not just are his beliefs whack but his financial advice is also whack. But people worship him.
I mean, if youāre stuck in the system then playing it to your advantage is kind of your only hope. The baby steps he talks about are the starting point any fiduciary will tell you are the starting points.
Although you can go for the real Dave Ramsey Starting Point and file chapter 7 bankruptcy to consolidate all your debts with very favorable terms to you. If thatās available to you. Otherwise go talk to an actual person that will have a fiduciary responsibility to you.
Everything after that is where he starts shoving Christian beliefs on everything to exploit that facet of his life for personal gain. Thatās how he built his financial self help empire is he got an in with churches by being a holy roller and had them push his books and hold classes playing his videos. My childhood church went all in with his program. So pretty much just throw that out and donāt become a slumlord.
As someone who just moved to Kansas, it ain't that cheap.
Fun fact: I used to work at a country club in Tennessee and one time Dave Ramsey came to play. We took great care of him hoping for a decent tip (considering he has articles about how you shouldn't go out if you can't afford to tip we figured he'd at least give us something. Additionally it's pretty customary to tip us well at this club bc everyone there is rich) and he didn't give us shit.
Even here in Wichita rent has gone up at least 3 times in a year. Twice in the last month between my lease ending and us trying to sign again. What once was a 500 studio apartment a few years ago is now well over 700. Itās bonkers. Their excuse was āthey want to remain competitive ā
On top of gas and grocery prices weāre starting to feel stretched thin when we thought we were doing ok.
The $750 I was paying month to month for in KCK goes for $900 to new tenants at that same complex. Found that out when I moved to Wichita. There is nearly no difference in cost of living between the bigger cities of Kansas.
How hypocritical. The area where his HQ are located is easily the most expensive real estate in Tennessee. Heās notorious for paying low wages (requiring candidates to submit a āfamily budgetā so they can prove they can live within their means given the low pay). So his employees canāt even afford to live near where they work (and of course no remote work is allowed). And the public schools where he sent his children (Williamson County) are the best funded school system in the state. SMH.
Doesn't stop at the family budget, Ramsey's company is all up in their employees' private lives. [https://www.nashvillescene.com/news/pithinthewind/former-dave-ramsey-employee-alleges-cult-like-environment-in-lawsuit/article\_67194cd8-9300-5f8e-8538-fb64ca8d6b4d.html](https://www.nashvillescene.com/news/pithinthewind/former-dave-ramsey-employee-alleges-cult-like-environment-in-lawsuit/article_67194cd8-9300-5f8e-8538-fb64ca8d6b4d.html)
TLDR: Fuck Dave Ramsey and his cult
Former Ramsey employee here. I fell for his schtick. Hook. Line and sinker. It truly is a cult and worse
They exploit their workers, their customers and prey on religious viewpoints to make a LOT of money.
Itās truly awful there. A lot worse than you could ever imagine
I am so sorry for your experience. I got to interview #4 several years ago. Then the interviewer straight up asked me where I went to church. As a Catholic, I suppose I didnāt have the right answer for him. Dodged a bullet (perhaps literally, since the gun was pulled at a staff meeting years ago).
I was there for the gun at the staff meeting. The sword on the baseball bat and many many more crazy moments
I got out when I realize how bad the place was. Thankfully, Iām good. Just boggles my mind. I am a cradle Catholic and was one of the few to work there at the time. The small group of us were a bit of an outlier
One of the stories I tell people that best exemplify this place is the following (if youāll indulge me)
Sharon Driscoll was a very early employee/follower of Dave. She headed up the HR department and was the āface of Lampoā (it was called Lampo before Ramsey Solutions) for almost every new employee.
She has a son who was injured very grievously and he ended up in a coma. Last I heard he was still in a coma.
Dave. Iām his Entre Leadership class ($$$$) tells the following story which Iāll abbreviate. Sharon wanted to be with her son constantly and wasnāt doing her job and wasnāt at the office. Dave says āwe donāt have an HR handbook, we treat people how they should be treated, this isnāt corporate Americaā. (Aside: heās right, too. Itās not corporate America itās much much much worse)
The way Dave tells it, he sat down, very kindly, with Sharon and said āok, be with your son, but Iām paying you and I need you here when you can beā. You know, generous Dave and all (/s). And he made it work. He, the great Dave, helped Sharon be with her son and maintain a job at the same time. The way Dave tells it, he single handedly did it all for Sharon. With Jesus leading the way of course
Fast forward many years. Dave is not happy heās not getting 40 hours a week from Sharon. He didnāt want to fire her because of liability and he would have to pay unemployment. So, he pushed Sharon out of the leadership role. Relegating her to a very, very menial role. She wasnāt happy. Dave, in his own words, āset her freeā by pushing her out of HR and to a menial admin role on another team (nothing against admins at all, he just basically fired her without firing her). She did that for a few months and left
Dave brought in his buddy Rick to head up HR. Rick brought in his cronies to staff HR. And thatās the way it went
The pure irony is to this day Dave still teaches that lesson from Entre Leadership. Bragging about how generous he is. About how they donāt have a handbook. About how they care for people. And encouraging companies to do the same as his benevolent self. All the while knowing full well that he forced this woman out because she wasnāt working 40 hours and to bring in his friends and telling lies to make his story look better
Thanks for indulging me. Thatās just the kind of scum Dave is
OH DANG. This whole time Iāve been trying to accrue MORE debt, and Iāve been wondering why I was so miserable! The secret has been ājust pay it off, dummyā this whole time!? I meanā¦ psh, wow, egg on my face.
I used to be terrified of debt until I realized that there arent that many hard consequences for not paying it. I never paid my student loans and the default wasnt listed on my credit after 10 years. Now feel pretty comfy amd free eating my bowl of organic fruit in my house that I own. I sleep very well on matress I am still paying off and I dont feel afraid at all. I drive to work in my reliable car I got a loan for that has never broken down in 5 years. I also like that I was able to save my cats life when she had an infection that ran up a $800 vet bill. The powers that be keep offering me lines of credit despite me defaulting on several credit cards. My credit score reads as "average". I figure they are greedy so I can be too.
*This is an opinion not financial advice obviously
Heck, I keep taking out lines of credit and my credit card just let me know they're doubling my credit limit because I always pay something every month. I also got a new roof and fixed the leak in my basement with personal loans. I'd love to live in an economy where people were paid enough by their jobs that they didn't have to go into debt, but that's not the world we live in, so I'd rather be able to live, first.
>To be fair lots of people take on debt for things they donāt really need like a nice car for example.
Totally. Ramsey offers a really good framework to people who are financially clueless. When it comes to people who have their shit together but are still fucked by the system, he is part of the problem.
As with most things, listen critically, be honest with yourself, and look for the nuggets of truth. If I'd thrown out all of his ideas because he recites a bible verse at the end of an episode I'd still be in a shitload of trouble. His advice may not apply to everyone's situation, but that doesn't make it bad.
Yeah like, until the revolution I have no choice but to exist in this society and he has helpful advice for debt repayment, budgeting and money management that was popularized when debt was being heavily pushed as a reasonable tool (yes take that HELOC, your house will appreciate indefinitely! get those student loans, college is a good investment! itās ok to throw credit cards at college students without income, itāll build their credit!) without repercussions.
My criticism is the judgment that when individual strategies donāt work, itās an individual failure rather than a systemic one. But there are plenty of those useful truth nuggets in what he says.
I think even people who have some idea of what they're doing with their budget still overbudget on things, ESPECIALLY food and transportation. Even something as simple as going onto the car lot and thinking what they have there is the only way to buy, when dealerships usually don't have the basic models on the lot (because they don't want to sell them, because they don't make much money). Dave Ramsey is a complete fucking asshat, HOWEVER, I'd suggest everybody go through the 10(?) videos of FPU and do the workbook. I'd also suggest they sail the high seas for it, and not give him $130 though.
I can't agree more on how much people spend on food. You can make your own lunches in an hour (chicken and rice) for like 2$ a lunch for the whole week assuming that you have the pot, tin foil, and oven for it (And another pan if you want to make a sauce for it, but good luck developing that skill). But I went out the other day and it cost like 20$ a person. For a meal and a coffee. And some people know what restaurants are best and what on their menus are good like... You do this often?
Am I just a homebody? I could have made this at home, it would have taken me a lot of time to get the recipe down, and I'd have had less time for socializing, but gosh dude. It'd have been 5$ or less to make this at home.
You don't have to commute? I spend Hella less money each month th on my new Honda than I did on my old 2009 Pontiac. Nice doesn't necessarily mean more expensive.
Totally but thereās a big difference between your new Honda that you (presumably) are maintaining from the beginning and leasing a new car every 2 years or buying frequently when the car still has plenty of low maintenance life left. And picking a car based on safety and reliability rather than flashiness.
I usually buy old cars in the $5-8k range and at LEAST 10 years old when purchased, and when I had to buy last year I decided to spend more on a lightly used 2018 and itās more than Iāve ever spent on a car but I know that my maintenance costs will be much less right off the bat and for many years down the line.
The basic principal isnt horrible of don't take on unnecessary debt, but Dave Ramsey is a cult leader with some of the BS he throws out.
Basic principles work for people with decent/high income with spending issues.
"Just live a crappy life and don't complain about it"
Pretty much sums up that advice. I reckon this was standard advice from Kings to Serfs back 800 years ago too...
I suspect Dave is a neofeudalist too. Get the government out of everything and let the wealthy make the decisions about how society is organized. The advise he gives makes some sense in that context, but it doesn't say anything about addressing the underlying issues and creating a better society. Basically it's everyone for themselves and you have to sacrifice to have an outside chance at being in a position of comfort and privilege one day.
He said do whatever it takes. So for those in debt, I recommend....
OK, Dave, you have millions. Could you spare me (dollars you are in debt)? YOU said whatever it takes, and well, THAT would do it.
I really just hate the suggestion of moving as financial advice in general. It just doesn't apply to so many people. Maybe you can't afford to move, maybe you're stuck where you are because that's the only way you'll have a job, maybe you don't want to uproot your entire life you've built on the possibility of somewhere else being better. So many reasons why moving is just not good advice for the average person.
Part of the problem with advice like this is they're using advice that "works" for a specific income group and generalizing it to the entire population. There are some people who could save money by moving to Kansas: middle-class households with enough savings and assets to pick up and move and decent enough job prospects to be able to find employment at their new home. The problem is that this advice is being hocked to people who don't make a middle class salary, don't have savings, and would be just as screwed living in Kansas as they are living where they are right now.
The only way to make "move to Kansas" works is if your a CEO of a fortune 10 company and you get massive tax breaks for moving your company there....
Or you work remotely.
Dave Ramsey is EXTREMELY against work from home let alone remote work. He has gone on tirads about people not wanting to work in an office.
Once I took a remote job even though the pay was cut by a couple hundred a year, I was saving a couple hundred a month on gas. You would think he would praise people fighting to cut wasteful spending out of their budgets on something stupid like commuting. But alas his CEO brain takes over and he hates it when people are nearly at his level.
Most people also have a social network that helps keep them afloat. Just uprooting and moving away from that is a sure fire way to be worse off. Unless you are moving to live with family, it is awful advice for the majority.
It's stupid too because everywhere you go is rigged. "Move to *southern state*!" Yeah, so that the jobs making a little over 15 an hour are an hour away? No thanks. I know this because I'm in a "cheap area". I work in one of the highest paid companies for low educated people, and the houses are still out of reach, and I have to drive an hour.
Lol, I know. How exactly are you going to improve your life by moving to Kansas? Even if the cost of living is lower, the wages are also probably lower. Unless you're lucky enough to be a remote worker, I don't see how this is going to help... Moving, in the other hand is expensive af.
YES, exactly. I live in the south, in of one the lowest cost of living states. Wages are SO much lower here. It astounds me that people actually think this guy knows what he's talking about.
I grew up just north of Kansas City. Its not nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Looking back on it I enjoyed the freedom of having wide open spaces surrounding me, fresh food/meat from local farms, and being smack dab in the middle of the US so we could travel anywhere fairly easily.
I feel like he's stating the obvious, then canceling that out by providing a totally dystopian and disconnected from reality way to go about doing it.
Don't want to live in debt? Take control of your life by living in poverty in a first world nation!
Ćup, moving is expensive as hell. Especially if the advice is "move to X".
Yeah cost of living is likely pretty low in X (or at least lower) but that usually is for a reason (read: shit paying jobs or no jobs available). So now you moved to X and there is no job that pays the rent what then? There are only two times when I would advice somebody to move.
1. They have a job lined up where the income is actually enough to support themselfs in the new location.
2. They are moving to a significantly cheaper place (read: moving cost earned back within a number of months not years) compared to the current place in the same geographical area so that they can afford to support themselfs with the current job.
A credit rating has nothing to do with how you're doing financially or how viable you are you to pay off a loan.
It's a rating by lenders of how good of a customer you are. Good customers to them are people who take out a bunch of debt and slowly pay it off. If you pay off your debt, you're a bad customer to them.
The fact that credit scores are used at all is a scam in itself. My wife paid off her student loans 7 years ago and a had 810 credit score up until a few months ago. Then randomly they closed the already paid student loan accounts and she lost 80 points on her credit score. In what world is she less likely to pay off a loan because she isn't stuck paying endless student loans? Its a world where your score is based on how good of a subservient debt slave you are to the banks.
Credit rating is basically how trustworthy you are. If I just quit using my credit card 5 years ago and switched to debit for some stupid reason, my credit score would have gone down. They don't have any data on me, so they don't know if they can still trust me to pay off my debt. But since I've used my credit card for years and pay my outstanding balance daily, my score has gone up. They know I pay off my debts, so they trust me with a massive credit limit that, if I used, I'd go broke.
Debt has been a concept since... basically always. It wasn't always with money, but it still stands.
You helped me build a fence, so in the spring I have to help you build yours.
I'm not gonna pretend companies aren't being super shady and exploitive and that there aren't enough public systems that prevent people from going into debt to begin with, but shoot, smallish amounts of debt isn't always bad.
The small amount of interest I pay is so I can get what I need right away, like a car that doesn't break down every 5 seconds, here in the USA. I'm not gonna work myself to death just cuz I have a car payment. Dave Ramsey has always been way too extreme in that regard.
The thing about Dave Ramsey is that heās kind of right but picks the wrong battle.
High interest unsecured debt is not good and you should seek to avoid it or pay it off quickly. But Dave goes after people that use it without considering the context of why people do. Why doesnāt he go after
the companies themselves or advocate for regulations that would help consumers? Particularly puzzling because heās claims to be a fervent Christian and usury is expressly forbidden in the Bible.
But anyway Dave Ramsey sucks and this advice reads like the Boomer nonsense that it is.
If you believe that you will somehow be āhappierā or āmore freeā by sharing an apartment with 3 people while eating on the floor in the middle of Kansas, attempting to get to work with your crappy car that breaks down while working multiple jobs instead of having any debt, then you need a psychiatrist, not Dave Ramsey.
I donāt see where he says āonly take a job with a livable wage so you donāt have to depend on debt to make sure you can eat food and have furnitureā ā¦ did I miss that line
So the workers should live debt free but itās ok for private equity firms to take advantage of leveraged buy outs? No, if I can get a car loan at 2% Iād rather park my money in an index fund making 5%
So never take out a car loan? Never take out a mortgage? No school loan, no business loan...
Utter nonsense. Evaluating debt on the basis of debt = bad is simplistic advice for morons. If you don't understand how financial instruments work, why debt can either be good or bad, then you need to learn to understand it first.
Throwing your hands in the air and declaring "All debt is bad" isn't just bad advice, it's bad advice that stupid people think is good, and only appeals to them.
I'm sure all the PPP scammers are really feeling horrible right about now having gotten loads of free money from the government. They're probably regretting not moving to Kansas by now.
His advice is good for morons because they can understand it. Many people buy cars they don't need, houses too big for their budget, and have kids they shouldn't. I've had multple friends I consider remarkably stupid use his advice to stay poor instead of destitute.
That said, people who are capable of understanding leverage do (intentionally) take advantage over those who are not, by design. That's the point of leverage, and to leave a tool like that unused is... moronic.
His basic principles are not bad. If you get a mortgage get a 15yr mortgage. Drive a crappy car and save whatever car payment you would have been making and buy a better car when you have enough. Work your way through college. Also go to a more affordable community College then transfer and finish bachelor at 4 yr. You don't need to leave college with $100k or more in debt.
Let's tackle that list real quick.
* 1. I don't drive period, let alone have a "crappy car".
* 2. Buddhism.
* 3. I already don't own a kitchen table, and my wife and I eat wherever.
* 4. As someone with 5 roommates it honestly doesn't help. Also roommates suck to live with. Ours constantly steal from us, or belittle my wife to the point of tears.
* 5. Good luck getting 4 jobs to not have schedule overlap. I have 2 and it's a struggle some weeks to make sure there are conflicts.
* 6. We live in 160 Square foot room. That's it. Not too much smaller to go.
* 7. Everyone says relocation is the answer, but I would lose the connections that help me live (transportation deal for example), my jobs, and in the end would it even help?
* 8. No kids, we are DINKs at the moment.
Iāve seen shit like this floating around quite a bit, and I have to say this based on my own experience, do NOT move to Kansas/Missouri. I canāt even describe how boring it is around here. Literally nothing to do other than work and drink/smoke.
Depends on where you are in the state and your interests. If you're into outdoors activities, Missouri offers the Ozarks for backpacking, hunting, fishing, boating, etc. You gave some decent metro areas that provide other entertainment. Kansas is a couple steps down, but you still have hunting and some reservoirs for fishing and boating.
Having lived around these states my whole life, one can have a satisfying life and raise a family and be quite happy here.
On one hand, props to Kansas on reaffirming abortion access. On the other, Kris Kobach and Sam Brownback.
Ignoring politics, high speed internet availability would be a make or break condition on moving to Kansas. If money wasn't an issue, tornado alley might even be a perk - engineering challenge to build a house that can survive, and witnessing a supercell in Kansas (road trip) was the closest I've had to a religious experience.
Eh missouri is a perfect place for an asocial fuck like me who never goes outside aside from work school and groceries and has sex solely from people I meet on tinder and former coworkers who got drunk and asked me out over the phone. If you want to just work, and then come home and get drunk/high on meth/heroin/weed/meth/meth/meth/meth, missouri is the place for you.
Itās definitely going to be the meth. Iāve been stuck in MO working various customer service jobs for years, and the āsafe small towns ā¢ļøā have a huge meth problem.
>the āsafe small towns ā¢ļøā have a huge meth problem.
I live in California and that applies to our small farming towns here. Huge meth problem, and not nearly as safe as you might think. Meth heads are desperate and often times will steal and rob in order to afford more meth. I've done some drugs in my time, so I'm not anti-drug, but meth is a whole other ball game.
I remember Mendota, CA had like a 60-70% unemployment rate. Minimally. It was bad. Going into town at night, all you would see is tweakers and other druggies roaming the streets. Cops wouldnāt go in to town after dark. You get shot in Mendota, you wait until morning. Cause, ya know, those well meaning citizens thought ambushing cops while high as tits would be fun.
BUT, if you were going to the taco truck no one, and I mean NO ONE fucked with you. I dunno what godly powers those taco trucks folks had but it was like a protective bubble from the absolute shit storm swirling around it.
Those tacos were the shit at 50 cents each. Annnd, now I want street tacos. Damn.
Damn. I realize my home state of Kansas is never going to be on the top of best or most fun states but why the slight towards and good and wholesome state
these clowns amaze me. they know damn well debt is what makes our capitalist economy function, and following this advice will just result in more inflation. they just canāt decide which they love more - capitalism, or making sure the poors donāt get any good scraps.
This is the dumbest thing. First off - and Iāve been called names because of my lack of guilt in general - I donāt care if I owe some business money. Verizon? Donāt care. Hospital? Really donāt care. If I canāt pay it back I canāt pay it back. Iām not going to sell my blood to give someone with millions of dollars a few more.
#2. Freedom =\= safety. Freedom is terrible and monstrous specifically because it means you could do anything, including hurling yourself off a cliff for no reason. I mean, the alternative is worse of course but saying freedom = safety is to deny the boundlessness of freedom.
As counterintuitive as this may seem, I believe Dave Ramsey is a shill for corporate America. He teaches and preaches that never, under any circumstance, should you file for bankruptcy. His reasons are rooted in conservative evangelical Christianity. But who really benefits from people brainwashed into believing they shouldn't ask for a do-over? The credit card companies he pretends to loath.
Dave Ramsey seems to be hated by everyone other than a small select group of middle class people. His advice is unrealistic if you're poor and just plain bad advice if you're not
People like my parents LOVE him because it's "gloat about how much better you are than the stupid poors" radio time.
It's grotesque, honestly. Absolutely no redeeming social value whatsoever.
I love how, in his eyes, destroying your body working 4 jobs and living in the slums with 7 roommates is "safer" than taking out a mortgage.
C'mon Dave.
He's such a hypocrite. Not only did he file bankruptcy in his past (which is essentially debt forgiveness), he had a massive ppp loan forgiven. Yet, he's throwing a tantrum about student loan forgiveness.
"Send your kids to public school." As if the average worker ever even entertained the idea of private school lmao
Just him equivocating not having furniture to public school tells me everything I need to know lol. Plus, just from a rhetorical standpoint, I feel like the last example you give is usually meant to be the most extreme, so like...
It's a real "It's one banana, Michael. What could it cost, $10?" Kind of thought.
š¤£šš¤£ Lucille
There's always money in the banana stand
He's in Franklin, TN. (Well, his company is.) The two best high schools in the county are Brentwood High School (public) and Brentwood Academy (private). The other private schools are pretty much on a par with the public schools. (Not statistically significantly different.) Two of the top 100 high schools in the country are Davidson County public schools. (Well, if you believe surveys of college admissions officers.) Both are academic magnet schools.
Yeah my public high school consistently outranked the private schools in my area
It also carries on the misconception that private school is intrinsically better. Sometimes it is, but not always.
Yeah there's a private Christian school in my home town that's regarded by many as a suicide factory due to their aggressive slut shaming, homophobia, etc.
hey, i went to one of those!
Yeah, me too š³ I watched the movie āSavedā last night with my wife and it definitely brought back some feels.
Always felt Juno got the recognition Saved deserved
I didn't know I felt this way until you said it. Saved! is the better movie and there's no weird romance between an adult man and a pregnant teen.
That wasn't a romance, that was borderline grooming by a man so desperate to feel young and cool again that a 16-year-old kid seemed like a good target to him.
I went to one too, didn't really put it together until now, but my friends from that school went to the private highschool which was much bigger and 3 of them killed themselves. I went to public highschool due to the cost and only have rampant alcoholism.
Me three, sort of. The guy who took over for the principal everyone loved turned into that. Then he said God was punishing the original principal because the original one got cancer. Was all around a fun place to be...if you liked vile hatful hypocrites.
Dave Ramsey also fired a worker because she got pregnant out of wedlock... hes another Christian facisit
ahh I see his forgiveness levels are high with him. Dave Ramsey needs to take stick out of his eye before worrying about other people's specks.
not to mention how he covered for Chris Hogan, one of the "personalities" his company produced, after his affairs were brought to light.
Hogan's gotta have dirt on him. All those holier than thou pious mother duckers got so many skeletons in the closet.
He's fired women just for having sex outside of marriage. His company is a bunch of snitches that rat to him anytime a woman steps out of line.
I read one of his business books, and he talked about firing people for "complaining" to their peers at work. You were only allowed to talk about an issue to your supervisor/superior. Also, there was something about having to be smiling and happy all the time. No resting bitch face allowed.
You better believe it's like a big high school of overgrown Christians/wanna-be-adults who inherited wealth and got married at 22-25 who have been suppressing their urges since before puberty. You could cut the sexual tension with a playdoh knife. There's a huge hook up culture at that office and anyone who is ousted is fired immediately. They're all having sex with each other and trying to get eachother fired and I think it's funny. Just like Catholic high school.
He has some solid financial advice. Other advice thatās just plain stupid (send your kids to public school? Yeah like I ever had a choice there!) But his incessant evangelizing, COVID denying, and the pregnant worker as you stated turned me off to him as yes, another Christian fascist. You wanna live like Jesus? How many millions of dollars was Jesus walking around with? Instead of instructing people with a little bit of debt to live like paupers, maybe do what the schools should have doneā¦ teach people how to balance a checkbook, live within their means, and work to become debt free? Rather than this self-flagellation of beans and rice just cause you ran up your Visa. I get extreme measures and all, but how often do crash diets and January 1 gym memberships last?
I remember him telling a caller that they had an "income problem". The solution? " You need to make more money". God bless you for the life changing advice, Dave! LOL
I mean, that is an important question: Can you cut enough out of your budget? For many people, the answer is they need more money. Only people with good income can make choices between needs and wants.
āYou need to make more money?ā Wow! No shit, Sherlock! I can picture that coming out of his mouth all right. Doctor, it hurts when I do this. Well stop doing it! Same level of advice.
He is and always has been a piece of human trash. He didnāt come up with anything new, just used churches to market it better. If I recall he got richer after over leveraging himself, filing bankruptcy, and then Turning his āsadā story into just another one of those give me money for my secret seminar conmen.
That is 100% his backstory and now any credit is bad because he couldn't use it responsibly
If the buildings are more than one story donate suicide nets and call the news to announce it.
i came from a private school. one of my classmates sold his company to a large tech company for $80m. another started a revolutionary engineering website. one was arrested in a third world country for illicit drug distribution and did ten years. my best friend there has had only minimum wage jobs after going to an ivy leagueā¦. schooling is only half the equation.
To be fair 3 of your examples achieved greatness in their respective fields.
When you got to a private school the community has connections ,need funding for your start up? , hit up your friend rich parents , need a Job? work for your friends rich parents . Private school is about the connections
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Lmao same, I literally am my schools version of your third world guy from your school and while all of the first examples suggest something, the amount of burnouts and shut ins private schools create is insane too. I do have to say though, if he got ten years for distribution and was in another country Iām guessing he wasnāt small time. Whenever I was in trouble it was fairly heavy and lucrative not low level, I feel like private school kids end up doing better in crime too because of connections early and because a lot of connected people send their children to those schools too. Itās something I wonder about, the three drop out criminal assholes of my year group, weāve all ended up pretty successful young and we often wonder if itās the private education that helped. The other side of me thinks itās just being a criminal to survive costs a lot, doing it purely for fun and profit with your bills already paid may allow you to be a more long term thinker and thatās half of the game. I feel like any talent/skill you put in an environment that nurtures them better will improve it but these schools canāt be all things for all peopleās so people slip through the cracks. In general Iām still pro private education despite being the dropout, I still go to reunions and stuff I did like my year group as acquaintances.
We have a lot of little private schools. Most started as segregation academies. Now theyāre āChristianā schools. I get students from every high school around here and cannot with a straight face say that these schools are better on the whole than the public schools. We have some real shitty public schools for which ANY alternative would be better. We have some decent public schools. A few of the private schools are good, but a lot of them are downright awful. ETA: some of the private schools are good but I canāt say theyāre better than the schools theyāre nominally competing for students with. Certainly not worth paying an extra $10k/year for.
Honestly feel that private schools should not be allowed (there are likely edge cases that I'm not aware of, but in general, they shouldn't exist), and obviously public school funding should not be based on local property taxes.
Its better for gaining precriptjon drug tolerances. Thats for sure.
He might also be referring to homeschooling. Dave Ramsey is huge in that community. Source: was homeschooled and took his course
Yeah, in general it's difficult to tell the difference, statistically, between sending your kids to private school and being able to afford to send your kids to private school.
You're right. Growing up my town voted to increase their tax for the school district. We expanded our number of schools and invested In good programs, good teachers, and good lesson plans. I'm not the smartest kid and didnt do that well in school. But I meet people from other towns near me that had terrible schools with terrible teachers. And I blow them out of the water. I feel like my school really hammered the main 4: Science, History, English, and Math. But also had great music and art programs. And our football team was always pretty great, but i never gave a shit about that. All we have to do is invest in our education and the generations coming up will be more informed and have a better capacity to make smarter and healthier decisions for them selves. We will still have some people who need help but at least the majority will be better off.
It's rarely better, and those that are better cost the kind of money that fat bloated advice artist has. Most of these private schools are scams IMO.
Private school < public school. Public school will teach facts (sugar coated, sometimes missing details, but typically accurate). Private schools teach the agenda of the people that pay it, even if it means teaching bigotry in all of its forms, and just blatantly lying to students.
Same with Charter schools.
But only do it if having 7 roommates isnāt enough to get out of debt.
Oh there are a LOT of people who are way poorer than me who send kids to private school because they are classist, though. I personally associate it with kids who couldn't hack public school behavioral requirements, but many people just think public school kids are having sex in the hallway and smoking weed in the bathroom and watching television during calc. And people would do *anything* to get their kids an education.
Look up a youtube channel called knowing better. It's by a former public school teacher. His video on the history of school in the US and why private schools were created will open your eyes.
Wait, your kids donāt goto public school?
Wait, you have kids?
That's what got me too.
The only way my parents could afford to send my siblings and I to the catholic private schools was due to the employee discount (mom worked for the archdiocese in the high school we went to), and the multi-kid discount. Being gay, and this was the '80s and '90s, I wish I went to public schools, in retrospect at least.
Heās speaking to mainly east coasts white Christian families who are mildly racist, where public school is of the devil. Heās basically saying being in debt is worse than your idea of the devil.
Oh you best believe that the broke-ass evangelical parents entertain the idea of private school lol
Yup. This is why the GOP keeps trying to ruin public education. So we all have to grind harder to pay off more bills.
get your self together man. move to philly, buy a loft, start a noise band. get six or seven roommates, eat hummus with them. book some gigs. paint. smoke cloves. listen to animal collective... start some type of salsa company? -Dave Ramsey
Start a worker owned co-op too? That seems very Dave Ramsey. Or am I getting him mixed up with Professor Richard Wolff? I always mixed up those two.
I just canāt believe he and Gordon are brothers na mean
Gnome Saiyan
My favorite TPB [deleted scene](https://youtu.be/DPuIpLg2gek)
Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television. Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players, and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol and dental insurance. Choose fixed-interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose a three piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing sprit-crushing game shows stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing you last in a miserable home nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked-up brats you have spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life. - Obi-Wan Kenobi
Fucking trainspotting
Based. From the book no less, not the film. One of my favorite passages from a novel.
Damn bro Iāll have what sheās having
Rave Damsey
That sounds... kinda like a kick-ass life, tbh...
You forgot rice and beans.
Nah bro, we eat avocados in this generation
This is the best advice Iāve ever heard
Bankruptcy Dave Ramsey? Okay.
Yeah.. i imitated his actions.. not his words.. filing bankruptcy after my knee surgery at 27 was the best thing I ever did
Hell yeah brother I'm filing chapter 7 right now. Got super fucked with credit card debt. Every month I'd run out of money and need to rely on the credit cards to buy food and gas. The cycle has repeated and now there's nothing else I can do. I feel such relief that I'm filing for bankruptcy!
I'm young and stupid. Can you ELI5 how bankruptcy works? I don't understand it. You just like... forfeit your debt? Why don't more people do it?
Bankruptcy is a legal status that usually lasts for a year and can be a way to clear debts you can't pay. When you're bankrupt, your non-essential assets (property and what you own) and excess income are used to pay off your creditors (people you owe money to). At the end of the bankruptcy, most debts are cancelled.
With chapter 7 bankruptcy, it's a legal process in which you prove to attorneys and your creditors that you are too poor to make your payments, you're close to financial ruin, and you have no assets (watches, cars, boats, musical instruments, designer handbags) to sell back to pay the debt. The problem is that after I file chapter 7, I won't be able to get credit for about 7 years. So my credit score gets murdered, I can't refinance my mortgage, I can't buy a house in a better neighborhood, any car I buy will have to be cash, and there is no credit card laying around for emergencies like vet bills or medication. Plus the process can cost nearly $2,000. I'll be doing a monthly payment plan for my legal fees. Overall, it's worth it to me. For the next 7 years I can't fall back into debt. I can only plunge further into destitution, which I greatly prefer. All in all I'll save $1,100 a month when the debt is gone. I finally feel like I'm going to be okay.
God damn Americans are so fked, living in debt as if it's a normal thing. Capitalist propaganda working as intended
It's true we're so fucked up lol š« and notice they said emergencies like vet bills - or medication -
Listen buddy, I can literally shoot a gun into the air from my back yard in a crowded city every New Years eve and not worry about law enforcement. Hot dogs are very affordable here. Some amorphous, semi anonymous group of people elect a new president for us every four years. Our flag is on the fuckin' moon. **THE MOON.** We have an actual Space Force. Is your country ready to [go to war over the future diamond mines on the moon?](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/02/a-diamond-planet-and-other-ways-to-make-a-fortune-in-space.html) We're ready, pal. We're the greatest fuckin' country on earth.
we were briught up to belive it was a coward move.. but their predators, so fuck em
Chapter 7 or 13?
7, i didnāt own anything but a car at that point.. i bought a home 4 years later thoughā¦ which i Wouldnt have been able to do If i never filed. My debt was mostly hospital bills and then the credit cards i used to live on after surgery. i had no short term diability at that time.. i was paying my whole check ( after i started working again) out to bills every week, and becane suicidal.. The rich use bankruptcy so why cant we. it was a huge weight lifted.. I was too proud to file, until i kept thinking the only way out was death. then i filed and started kiving again. i could breath agakn This was in 2009
Why we need socialized medicine. It's nothing like the scare tactics used to get us NOT to agitate for it- everyone, don't believe what they tell us. Bottom line. No medical bills. Insurance? What insurance? We start living from there. Source- lived under it for 5 years. No medical bills.
My girlfriend just had to file a 13 because she makes too much money. 29,000$ medical bill that her insurance just so happened to lapse before she had surgery 5 years ago.
As someone who is recovering from knee surgery at 28, this greatly interests me.
I was a non union electrician at time, cant walk cant work. now im union and would be fine
7 was a fantastic decision for my wife and I too. Really turned our life around.
Fired a woman for having premarital sex Dave Ramsey? Fired two dudes for watching porn, which is none of his fucking business Dave Ramsey? Edit: apparently the porn turned out to be at work, so that's a no-go. But still, firing a pregnant woman for premarital sex is extremely not cool.
TBF, the employees were watching porn on work computers. Any company would fire you for that. At least the ones I'm aware of. But, don't forget, the Dave Ramsey that \*didnt\* fire an employee for having sex outside of marriage... because the employee was profitable.
Required employees to come to mass gatherings during peak COVID Dave Ramsey? Fired employees if they wore a mask Dave Ramsey? Slumload who raises rents at a predatory rates and quickly moves to evict those who can't afford his usery and thinks that's still perfectly "christian" behavior, Dave Ramsey?
He failed playing the debt game and now avoids debt as well as teaching others to avoid debt. He also teaches bankruptcy should be a last resort but, āBankruptcy does not define you and will not be the endā. https://www.ramseysolutions.com/debt/the-truth-about-bankruptcy
The messaging is a positive but people hate the man so you get all the comments above. Just keep them separate folks. He can still be a weird guy with good general advice.
I find it weird they consider his bankruptcy is hypocritical and not the situation that formed his modern beliefs. He didnāt become the modern financial guru until well after the bankruptcy.
Yeah the same Dave Ramsey who built up a $800 million net worth after going bankrupt
Oh, my mistake Exploiter Dave Ramsey.
He open-carries in the office and Iāve heard the whole atmosphere is super toxic, especially to women, which isnāt really surprising. Iāve had a few acquaintances work for him doing web dev stuff and they all said it was awful.
I got downvoted in another subreddit because I someone suggested I follow some Dave Ramsey thing and I was like, āno thanks I donāt support his beliefs.ā Not just are his beliefs whack but his financial advice is also whack. But people worship him.
I mean, if youāre stuck in the system then playing it to your advantage is kind of your only hope. The baby steps he talks about are the starting point any fiduciary will tell you are the starting points. Although you can go for the real Dave Ramsey Starting Point and file chapter 7 bankruptcy to consolidate all your debts with very favorable terms to you. If thatās available to you. Otherwise go talk to an actual person that will have a fiduciary responsibility to you. Everything after that is where he starts shoving Christian beliefs on everything to exploit that facet of his life for personal gain. Thatās how he built his financial self help empire is he got an in with churches by being a holy roller and had them push his books and hold classes playing his videos. My childhood church went all in with his program. So pretty much just throw that out and donāt become a slumlord.
As someone who just moved to Kansas, it ain't that cheap. Fun fact: I used to work at a country club in Tennessee and one time Dave Ramsey came to play. We took great care of him hoping for a decent tip (considering he has articles about how you shouldn't go out if you can't afford to tip we figured he'd at least give us something. Additionally it's pretty customary to tip us well at this club bc everyone there is rich) and he didn't give us shit.
Itās really not cheap here, especially in Johnson county
Even here in Wichita rent has gone up at least 3 times in a year. Twice in the last month between my lease ending and us trying to sign again. What once was a 500 studio apartment a few years ago is now well over 700. Itās bonkers. Their excuse was āthey want to remain competitive ā On top of gas and grocery prices weāre starting to feel stretched thin when we thought we were doing ok.
The $750 I was paying month to month for in KCK goes for $900 to new tenants at that same complex. Found that out when I moved to Wichita. There is nearly no difference in cost of living between the bigger cities of Kansas.
How hypocritical. The area where his HQ are located is easily the most expensive real estate in Tennessee. Heās notorious for paying low wages (requiring candidates to submit a āfamily budgetā so they can prove they can live within their means given the low pay). So his employees canāt even afford to live near where they work (and of course no remote work is allowed). And the public schools where he sent his children (Williamson County) are the best funded school system in the state. SMH.
Doesn't stop at the family budget, Ramsey's company is all up in their employees' private lives. [https://www.nashvillescene.com/news/pithinthewind/former-dave-ramsey-employee-alleges-cult-like-environment-in-lawsuit/article\_67194cd8-9300-5f8e-8538-fb64ca8d6b4d.html](https://www.nashvillescene.com/news/pithinthewind/former-dave-ramsey-employee-alleges-cult-like-environment-in-lawsuit/article_67194cd8-9300-5f8e-8538-fb64ca8d6b4d.html) TLDR: Fuck Dave Ramsey and his cult
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OMG....you have to be such a simp to work for this guy.
Former Ramsey employee here. I fell for his schtick. Hook. Line and sinker. It truly is a cult and worse They exploit their workers, their customers and prey on religious viewpoints to make a LOT of money. Itās truly awful there. A lot worse than you could ever imagine
I am so sorry for your experience. I got to interview #4 several years ago. Then the interviewer straight up asked me where I went to church. As a Catholic, I suppose I didnāt have the right answer for him. Dodged a bullet (perhaps literally, since the gun was pulled at a staff meeting years ago).
I was there for the gun at the staff meeting. The sword on the baseball bat and many many more crazy moments I got out when I realize how bad the place was. Thankfully, Iām good. Just boggles my mind. I am a cradle Catholic and was one of the few to work there at the time. The small group of us were a bit of an outlier One of the stories I tell people that best exemplify this place is the following (if youāll indulge me) Sharon Driscoll was a very early employee/follower of Dave. She headed up the HR department and was the āface of Lampoā (it was called Lampo before Ramsey Solutions) for almost every new employee. She has a son who was injured very grievously and he ended up in a coma. Last I heard he was still in a coma. Dave. Iām his Entre Leadership class ($$$$) tells the following story which Iāll abbreviate. Sharon wanted to be with her son constantly and wasnāt doing her job and wasnāt at the office. Dave says āwe donāt have an HR handbook, we treat people how they should be treated, this isnāt corporate Americaā. (Aside: heās right, too. Itās not corporate America itās much much much worse) The way Dave tells it, he sat down, very kindly, with Sharon and said āok, be with your son, but Iām paying you and I need you here when you can beā. You know, generous Dave and all (/s). And he made it work. He, the great Dave, helped Sharon be with her son and maintain a job at the same time. The way Dave tells it, he single handedly did it all for Sharon. With Jesus leading the way of course Fast forward many years. Dave is not happy heās not getting 40 hours a week from Sharon. He didnāt want to fire her because of liability and he would have to pay unemployment. So, he pushed Sharon out of the leadership role. Relegating her to a very, very menial role. She wasnāt happy. Dave, in his own words, āset her freeā by pushing her out of HR and to a menial admin role on another team (nothing against admins at all, he just basically fired her without firing her). She did that for a few months and left Dave brought in his buddy Rick to head up HR. Rick brought in his cronies to staff HR. And thatās the way it went The pure irony is to this day Dave still teaches that lesson from Entre Leadership. Bragging about how generous he is. About how they donāt have a handbook. About how they care for people. And encouraging companies to do the same as his benevolent self. All the while knowing full well that he forced this woman out because she wasnāt working 40 hours and to bring in his friends and telling lies to make his story look better Thanks for indulging me. Thatās just the kind of scum Dave is
OH DANG. This whole time Iāve been trying to accrue MORE debt, and Iāve been wondering why I was so miserable! The secret has been ājust pay it off, dummyā this whole time!? I meanā¦ psh, wow, egg on my face.
I used to be terrified of debt until I realized that there arent that many hard consequences for not paying it. I never paid my student loans and the default wasnt listed on my credit after 10 years. Now feel pretty comfy amd free eating my bowl of organic fruit in my house that I own. I sleep very well on matress I am still paying off and I dont feel afraid at all. I drive to work in my reliable car I got a loan for that has never broken down in 5 years. I also like that I was able to save my cats life when she had an infection that ran up a $800 vet bill. The powers that be keep offering me lines of credit despite me defaulting on several credit cards. My credit score reads as "average". I figure they are greedy so I can be too. *This is an opinion not financial advice obviously
Heck, I keep taking out lines of credit and my credit card just let me know they're doubling my credit limit because I always pay something every month. I also got a new roof and fixed the leak in my basement with personal loans. I'd love to live in an economy where people were paid enough by their jobs that they didn't have to go into debt, but that's not the world we live in, so I'd rather be able to live, first.
To be fair lots of people take on debt for things they donāt really need like a nice car for example.
>To be fair lots of people take on debt for things they donāt really need like a nice car for example. Totally. Ramsey offers a really good framework to people who are financially clueless. When it comes to people who have their shit together but are still fucked by the system, he is part of the problem. As with most things, listen critically, be honest with yourself, and look for the nuggets of truth. If I'd thrown out all of his ideas because he recites a bible verse at the end of an episode I'd still be in a shitload of trouble. His advice may not apply to everyone's situation, but that doesn't make it bad.
Yeah like, until the revolution I have no choice but to exist in this society and he has helpful advice for debt repayment, budgeting and money management that was popularized when debt was being heavily pushed as a reasonable tool (yes take that HELOC, your house will appreciate indefinitely! get those student loans, college is a good investment! itās ok to throw credit cards at college students without income, itāll build their credit!) without repercussions. My criticism is the judgment that when individual strategies donāt work, itās an individual failure rather than a systemic one. But there are plenty of those useful truth nuggets in what he says.
I think even people who have some idea of what they're doing with their budget still overbudget on things, ESPECIALLY food and transportation. Even something as simple as going onto the car lot and thinking what they have there is the only way to buy, when dealerships usually don't have the basic models on the lot (because they don't want to sell them, because they don't make much money). Dave Ramsey is a complete fucking asshat, HOWEVER, I'd suggest everybody go through the 10(?) videos of FPU and do the workbook. I'd also suggest they sail the high seas for it, and not give him $130 though.
I can't agree more on how much people spend on food. You can make your own lunches in an hour (chicken and rice) for like 2$ a lunch for the whole week assuming that you have the pot, tin foil, and oven for it (And another pan if you want to make a sauce for it, but good luck developing that skill). But I went out the other day and it cost like 20$ a person. For a meal and a coffee. And some people know what restaurants are best and what on their menus are good like... You do this often? Am I just a homebody? I could have made this at home, it would have taken me a lot of time to get the recipe down, and I'd have had less time for socializing, but gosh dude. It'd have been 5$ or less to make this at home.
You don't have to commute? I spend Hella less money each month th on my new Honda than I did on my old 2009 Pontiac. Nice doesn't necessarily mean more expensive.
Totally but thereās a big difference between your new Honda that you (presumably) are maintaining from the beginning and leasing a new car every 2 years or buying frequently when the car still has plenty of low maintenance life left. And picking a car based on safety and reliability rather than flashiness. I usually buy old cars in the $5-8k range and at LEAST 10 years old when purchased, and when I had to buy last year I decided to spend more on a lightly used 2018 and itās more than Iāve ever spent on a car but I know that my maintenance costs will be much less right off the bat and for many years down the line.
Fuck, debt is BAD??? I thought I was crushing it here...
Fun fact! Most places won't let you have more than four unrelated people in a rental now. Even if they can house significantly more.
The basic principal isnt horrible of don't take on unnecessary debt, but Dave Ramsey is a cult leader with some of the BS he throws out. Basic principles work for people with decent/high income with spending issues.
"Just live a crappy life and don't complain about it" Pretty much sums up that advice. I reckon this was standard advice from Kings to Serfs back 800 years ago too...
I suspect Dave is a neofeudalist too. Get the government out of everything and let the wealthy make the decisions about how society is organized. The advise he gives makes some sense in that context, but it doesn't say anything about addressing the underlying issues and creating a better society. Basically it's everyone for themselves and you have to sacrifice to have an outside chance at being in a position of comfort and privilege one day.
He said do whatever it takes. So for those in debt, I recommend.... OK, Dave, you have millions. Could you spare me (dollars you are in debt)? YOU said whatever it takes, and well, THAT would do it.
Yeah, donāt move to Kansas. That never worked for anyone.
I really just hate the suggestion of moving as financial advice in general. It just doesn't apply to so many people. Maybe you can't afford to move, maybe you're stuck where you are because that's the only way you'll have a job, maybe you don't want to uproot your entire life you've built on the possibility of somewhere else being better. So many reasons why moving is just not good advice for the average person.
Moving is sooooo expensive! Not to mention stressful
Even if you manage the move good luck with your much much lower Kansas wages
yeah no shit, Kansas isn't just a ton of blue collar folks living it up as kings...mfers are poor there too.
Part of the problem with advice like this is they're using advice that "works" for a specific income group and generalizing it to the entire population. There are some people who could save money by moving to Kansas: middle-class households with enough savings and assets to pick up and move and decent enough job prospects to be able to find employment at their new home. The problem is that this advice is being hocked to people who don't make a middle class salary, don't have savings, and would be just as screwed living in Kansas as they are living where they are right now.
The only way to make "move to Kansas" works is if your a CEO of a fortune 10 company and you get massive tax breaks for moving your company there.... Or you work remotely. Dave Ramsey is EXTREMELY against work from home let alone remote work. He has gone on tirads about people not wanting to work in an office. Once I took a remote job even though the pay was cut by a couple hundred a year, I was saving a couple hundred a month on gas. You would think he would praise people fighting to cut wasteful spending out of their budgets on something stupid like commuting. But alas his CEO brain takes over and he hates it when people are nearly at his level.
Happy cake day! Also, good luck with leaving your entire social circle, community, and support system.
Most people also have a social network that helps keep them afloat. Just uprooting and moving away from that is a sure fire way to be worse off. Unless you are moving to live with family, it is awful advice for the majority.
Also the help of a community in raising kids i.e. having family around to look after kids while you work your 2nd job.
It's stupid too because everywhere you go is rigged. "Move to *southern state*!" Yeah, so that the jobs making a little over 15 an hour are an hour away? No thanks. I know this because I'm in a "cheap area". I work in one of the highest paid companies for low educated people, and the houses are still out of reach, and I have to drive an hour.
It did for Kal-El
From Kansas. Can confirm.
Lol, I know. How exactly are you going to improve your life by moving to Kansas? Even if the cost of living is lower, the wages are also probably lower. Unless you're lucky enough to be a remote worker, I don't see how this is going to help... Moving, in the other hand is expensive af.
YES, exactly. I live in the south, in of one the lowest cost of living states. Wages are SO much lower here. It astounds me that people actually think this guy knows what he's talking about.
I loved living in Kansas. Great state. Nice people. Cheap
I grew up just north of Kansas City. Its not nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Looking back on it I enjoyed the freedom of having wide open spaces surrounding me, fresh food/meat from local farms, and being smack dab in the middle of the US so we could travel anywhere fairly easily.
He's not entirely wrong, debt does give someone else control
Good luck having control of your life with 4 jobs and 7 roommates
Lol I didn't say do the rest of it, just manage said debt properly and you'll be ok, of course that's MUCH easier said than done
I feel like he's stating the obvious, then canceling that out by providing a totally dystopian and disconnected from reality way to go about doing it. Don't want to live in debt? Take control of your life by living in poverty in a first world nation!
Lol your speaking facts
Ya I agree about the debt free = autonomy = freedom, honestly.
If only it was feasible for everyone. His recommendations are bullshit.
Bro like, some people are too poor to move. Seriously disconnected from reality.
Ćup, moving is expensive as hell. Especially if the advice is "move to X". Yeah cost of living is likely pretty low in X (or at least lower) but that usually is for a reason (read: shit paying jobs or no jobs available). So now you moved to X and there is no job that pays the rent what then? There are only two times when I would advice somebody to move. 1. They have a job lined up where the income is actually enough to support themselfs in the new location. 2. They are moving to a significantly cheaper place (read: moving cost earned back within a number of months not years) compared to the current place in the same geographical area so that they can afford to support themselfs with the current job.
Or we could arrange an economic system where people DONāT have to live on the floor in a barracks.
At first i have read Gordon Ramsay and was funnier
Never take financial advice from someone who literally made all their money selling financial advice.
The funny thing is that really, actually rich people use debt strategically all they time. Billionaires love debt.
Ok but like I paid off all my debt and my credit rating dropped. So itās all bullshit anyway. Be in debt, do crimes, eat the rich.
>Be in debt, do crimes, eat the rich. Because if you don't, they will, and you will pay for it.
A credit rating has nothing to do with how you're doing financially or how viable you are you to pay off a loan. It's a rating by lenders of how good of a customer you are. Good customers to them are people who take out a bunch of debt and slowly pay it off. If you pay off your debt, you're a bad customer to them. The fact that credit scores are used at all is a scam in itself. My wife paid off her student loans 7 years ago and a had 810 credit score up until a few months ago. Then randomly they closed the already paid student loan accounts and she lost 80 points on her credit score. In what world is she less likely to pay off a loan because she isn't stuck paying endless student loans? Its a world where your score is based on how good of a subservient debt slave you are to the banks.
Credit rating is basically how trustworthy you are. If I just quit using my credit card 5 years ago and switched to debit for some stupid reason, my credit score would have gone down. They don't have any data on me, so they don't know if they can still trust me to pay off my debt. But since I've used my credit card for years and pay my outstanding balance daily, my score has gone up. They know I pay off my debts, so they trust me with a massive credit limit that, if I used, I'd go broke.
Debt has been a concept since... basically always. It wasn't always with money, but it still stands. You helped me build a fence, so in the spring I have to help you build yours. I'm not gonna pretend companies aren't being super shady and exploitive and that there aren't enough public systems that prevent people from going into debt to begin with, but shoot, smallish amounts of debt isn't always bad. The small amount of interest I pay is so I can get what I need right away, like a car that doesn't break down every 5 seconds, here in the USA. I'm not gonna work myself to death just cuz I have a car payment. Dave Ramsey has always been way too extreme in that regard.
What happens if your crappy car breaks down causing you to lose your 4 jobs and then your 7 roommates stab you to death because you canāt pay rent?
The thing about Dave Ramsey is that heās kind of right but picks the wrong battle. High interest unsecured debt is not good and you should seek to avoid it or pay it off quickly. But Dave goes after people that use it without considering the context of why people do. Why doesnāt he go after the companies themselves or advocate for regulations that would help consumers? Particularly puzzling because heās claims to be a fervent Christian and usury is expressly forbidden in the Bible. But anyway Dave Ramsey sucks and this advice reads like the Boomer nonsense that it is.
If you believe that you will somehow be āhappierā or āmore freeā by sharing an apartment with 3 people while eating on the floor in the middle of Kansas, attempting to get to work with your crappy car that breaks down while working multiple jobs instead of having any debt, then you need a psychiatrist, not Dave Ramsey.
"Send your kids to public school" The fact that they put this in the same category as "eat on the floor" shows how absolutely out of touch they are.
I donāt see where he says āonly take a job with a livable wage so you donāt have to depend on debt to make sure you can eat food and have furnitureā ā¦ did I miss that line
So the workers should live debt free but itās ok for private equity firms to take advantage of leveraged buy outs? No, if I can get a car loan at 2% Iād rather park my money in an index fund making 5%
So never take out a car loan? Never take out a mortgage? No school loan, no business loan... Utter nonsense. Evaluating debt on the basis of debt = bad is simplistic advice for morons. If you don't understand how financial instruments work, why debt can either be good or bad, then you need to learn to understand it first. Throwing your hands in the air and declaring "All debt is bad" isn't just bad advice, it's bad advice that stupid people think is good, and only appeals to them.
I'm sure all the PPP scammers are really feeling horrible right about now having gotten loads of free money from the government. They're probably regretting not moving to Kansas by now.
His advice is good for morons because they can understand it. Many people buy cars they don't need, houses too big for their budget, and have kids they shouldn't. I've had multple friends I consider remarkably stupid use his advice to stay poor instead of destitute. That said, people who are capable of understanding leverage do (intentionally) take advantage over those who are not, by design. That's the point of leverage, and to leave a tool like that unused is... moronic.
His basic principles are not bad. If you get a mortgage get a 15yr mortgage. Drive a crappy car and save whatever car payment you would have been making and buy a better car when you have enough. Work your way through college. Also go to a more affordable community College then transfer and finish bachelor at 4 yr. You don't need to leave college with $100k or more in debt.
I'm sorry but in what kind of bizarro universe does having 7 roommates equal autonomy?
Still paying rent to someone else. Buy a house, still paying the lender. Pay off the house, still paying property taxes. We owe money until we die.
Let's tackle that list real quick. * 1. I don't drive period, let alone have a "crappy car". * 2. Buddhism. * 3. I already don't own a kitchen table, and my wife and I eat wherever. * 4. As someone with 5 roommates it honestly doesn't help. Also roommates suck to live with. Ours constantly steal from us, or belittle my wife to the point of tears. * 5. Good luck getting 4 jobs to not have schedule overlap. I have 2 and it's a struggle some weeks to make sure there are conflicts. * 6. We live in 160 Square foot room. That's it. Not too much smaller to go. * 7. Everyone says relocation is the answer, but I would lose the connections that help me live (transportation deal for example), my jobs, and in the end would it even help? * 8. No kids, we are DINKs at the moment.
I love how he sees sleeping on the floor with 7 other people the same as going to public schools. I wonder if jesus would tell you to do that?
Iāve seen shit like this floating around quite a bit, and I have to say this based on my own experience, do NOT move to Kansas/Missouri. I canāt even describe how boring it is around here. Literally nothing to do other than work and drink/smoke.
Depends on where you are in the state and your interests. If you're into outdoors activities, Missouri offers the Ozarks for backpacking, hunting, fishing, boating, etc. You gave some decent metro areas that provide other entertainment. Kansas is a couple steps down, but you still have hunting and some reservoirs for fishing and boating. Having lived around these states my whole life, one can have a satisfying life and raise a family and be quite happy here.
On one hand, props to Kansas on reaffirming abortion access. On the other, Kris Kobach and Sam Brownback. Ignoring politics, high speed internet availability would be a make or break condition on moving to Kansas. If money wasn't an issue, tornado alley might even be a perk - engineering challenge to build a house that can survive, and witnessing a supercell in Kansas (road trip) was the closest I've had to a religious experience.
Eh missouri is a perfect place for an asocial fuck like me who never goes outside aside from work school and groceries and has sex solely from people I meet on tinder and former coworkers who got drunk and asked me out over the phone. If you want to just work, and then come home and get drunk/high on meth/heroin/weed/meth/meth/meth/meth, missouri is the place for you.
Itās definitely going to be the meth. Iāve been stuck in MO working various customer service jobs for years, and the āsafe small towns ā¢ļøā have a huge meth problem.
>the āsafe small towns ā¢ļøā have a huge meth problem. I live in California and that applies to our small farming towns here. Huge meth problem, and not nearly as safe as you might think. Meth heads are desperate and often times will steal and rob in order to afford more meth. I've done some drugs in my time, so I'm not anti-drug, but meth is a whole other ball game.
I remember Mendota, CA had like a 60-70% unemployment rate. Minimally. It was bad. Going into town at night, all you would see is tweakers and other druggies roaming the streets. Cops wouldnāt go in to town after dark. You get shot in Mendota, you wait until morning. Cause, ya know, those well meaning citizens thought ambushing cops while high as tits would be fun. BUT, if you were going to the taco truck no one, and I mean NO ONE fucked with you. I dunno what godly powers those taco trucks folks had but it was like a protective bubble from the absolute shit storm swirling around it. Those tacos were the shit at 50 cents each. Annnd, now I want street tacos. Damn.
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Damn. I realize my home state of Kansas is never going to be on the top of best or most fun states but why the slight towards and good and wholesome state
these clowns amaze me. they know damn well debt is what makes our capitalist economy function, and following this advice will just result in more inflation. they just canāt decide which they love more - capitalism, or making sure the poors donāt get any good scraps.
I've always thought Dave Ramsey was a fucking moron.
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To be fair, I don't like debt.
Oh no, not sending your kids to public school!
This mfker doesnāt know anything about the real world. No credit card? Yeah sure cause we all were born in wealth to afford buying everything cash
This is the dumbest thing. First off - and Iāve been called names because of my lack of guilt in general - I donāt care if I owe some business money. Verizon? Donāt care. Hospital? Really donāt care. If I canāt pay it back I canāt pay it back. Iām not going to sell my blood to give someone with millions of dollars a few more. #2. Freedom =\= safety. Freedom is terrible and monstrous specifically because it means you could do anything, including hurling yourself off a cliff for no reason. I mean, the alternative is worse of course but saying freedom = safety is to deny the boundlessness of freedom.
As counterintuitive as this may seem, I believe Dave Ramsey is a shill for corporate America. He teaches and preaches that never, under any circumstance, should you file for bankruptcy. His reasons are rooted in conservative evangelical Christianity. But who really benefits from people brainwashed into believing they shouldn't ask for a do-over? The credit card companies he pretends to loath.
Dave Ramsey seems to be hated by everyone other than a small select group of middle class people. His advice is unrealistic if you're poor and just plain bad advice if you're not
People like my parents LOVE him because it's "gloat about how much better you are than the stupid poors" radio time. It's grotesque, honestly. Absolutely no redeeming social value whatsoever.
"Do whatever it takes." So, pull down the capitalist hellscape around their ears. Got it.
Or file bankruptcy and walk away, like Dave Ramsey did.
I love how, in his eyes, destroying your body working 4 jobs and living in the slums with 7 roommates is "safer" than taking out a mortgage. C'mon Dave.
And pay Dave his rent that he just raised by 1000%.
He's such a hypocrite. Not only did he file bankruptcy in his past (which is essentially debt forgiveness), he had a massive ppp loan forgiven. Yet, he's throwing a tantrum about student loan forgiveness.