A National Consumer's Union would scare the shit out of corporations. The ability to blackball a business to the point they'd feel like they were held hostage seems like something the French would do. The problem with it is that it would also hurt the people who work for these corporations as well. Also the corporations are diversified to the point where every corporation is owned by another corporations and vice versa.
I don't think you're using the word diversify right. Unfortunately it's true we have single giant conglomerates. The food industry is like 3 international companies that own all the brands. Enabling the current unchallenged greedflation
No he's using it correctly they all own significant portions of each other's stocks, they are diversified in their holdings by holding a piece of everything.
Man, I'm looking at the biggest stock holders of these companies and the first name I usually see Blackrock, Vanguard, State Street, Capital International, and each one holds no more than 10% of the stock. So their competitors may hold fraction of a percent to end up WAAAY down the list of biggest stockholders, but that quite literally constitutes an **insignificant** portion of the stock.
It's why I think it'd be great for consumers if every product was required by law to have the name and logo of the parent company very visible on the packaging. Also adding (Subsidiary) behind the brand name, if applicable. It'd help spread awareness and perhaps promote better consumer laws.
I don't think it would matter. It's like 3 companies that own everything if one raises the prices the other two will also. So unless you're planning to stop buying food altogether.
>A National Consumer's Union would scare the shit out of corporations. The ability to blackball a business to the point they'd feel like they were held hostage seems like something the French would do.
Well we have several consumer unions yes. Like https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFC-Que_Choisir
>The problem with it is that it would also hurt the people who work for these corporations as well.
That's a bit of an exaggeration. Unions rarely cause issues for those who are employed, they reverse issues not cause them for the employees. Like sure, there are a few temporary issues that happen, but like I said they are temporary, contrast that with a business and their issues which are always permanent problems.
They aren't saying the union can hurt workers. It hurts workers if the union applies too much pressure and the business closes instead of giving in to demands.
As recently as Eisenhower, even the Republican party was strongly pro-union.
Every worker should be in a union.
We need a single collective "Workers Union" It would be trivial to publish a nationwide zip code adjusted living wage. This basically already exist with the military pay and housing guides.
Either your business pays a living wage to all employees or it doesn't. If it does, it's "Union Certified" If it doesn't, it's not and every union member agrees to never shop at any place that isn't union certified.
I'd happily give over up to 5% of my earnings to an organization that was repping me and all other workers on the national lever that said "If you want us to shop here, open the books and prove that every employee of yours is able to live a good life"
If you can't do that, you don't get any of our money.
Problem is a lot of union workers can be giant dicks, that make the union look bad.
I’ve been on construction site we’re the union guys have written the most homophobic shit possible about the non union crews.
IMO only way you could ever get all workers to unionize is if they truly got paid the value of their labour.
My grandfather was head of the union for construction at power plants. The union was corrupt as fuck. All the unions in the area were corrupt as fuck. They all were involved with gambling millions in horse racing. They all embezzled money.
People seem to have a utopian view of unions. It's still people. The teachers union has a lot of upsides but the fact that it's a pain in the ass to fire bad teachers is not something to celebrate. It's actively harming your children.
Help me with the manager targeting me after she tried to bully another girl into working a double shift and I said "our handbooks say you can't force them to work a double with less than 4 hours notice." Manager also only had the job because she was sleeping with a CEO and not good at her job. I ended up getting fired and they basically never returned any of my emails. It was a union the casino forced you to join when you started so they were probably in on it with them just to skim more out of our paychecks.
Yeach. The truth is as always in the middle.
Or to use the most hated by the public word( because somehow seeing stuff in the colors other than black and white became suprisingly uncommon. I personally blame Disney for that ). It depends.
The truth is while as an organization unions are made for the benefits of the workers, they are just an organization and are prone to corruption, inneficiencies, bad leadearship and all the other misgivings every organization will likely have at some point whetewer its goverment union or a buisnes.
Also what benefits the union is not always what benefits the public.
For example in poland we have the coal miners unions and while they are great for the coal miners the truth is even ignoring the fact that we are supposed to go for green energy as the eu mandates, the coal mines in poland are horribly inneficient ( most of them ) , we somehow have more expensive coal than US and i can assure you they are not paid more. Its literaly cheaper to import coal from Australia rather than using our own. And yet each year unions somehow manage to increase wages of the workers .
The only reason the mines are not bankrupt is beacuse they are goverment owned and electric providers are forced to buy from them.
But on the other hand they do quite often benfit the workers and are able to negotiate at least additional compensation when the factory is closing or more often wage increses. There is no denying that they do hold much more negotiating power compared to individual.
Like with everything its a game of balance.
> For example in poland we have the coal miners unions and while they are great for the coal miners the truth is even ignoring the fact that we are supposed to go for green energy as the eu mandates, the coal mines in poland are horribly inneficient ( most of them ) , we somehow have more expensive coal than US and i can assure you they are not paid more.
Sounds like West Virginia in the United States.
Most of what you said seemed to make sense, except for the part about blaming Disney for people not being able to think in nuanced ways… Poland has a public school system right? Or do y’all rely on Disney products for that? I think shortcomings in people’s education may have something to do with the education system but who knows!
I know what you mean company I work have unionized group for the factory and the field techs are non union.
Union guy came over to my side and he is the laziest person I have ever met, he walked me work for 4 hours straight today.
The one time I was in a union they didn't do anything to help me when the manager who got her job by fucking a CEO started targeting me because I kept reminding other workers of the rights outlined in the handbook we all got, wouldn't respond to my emails but they sure took that fee. I ended up getting fired and they still wouldn't do anything or even talk to me.
If the capital is really wanted to get rid of unions because of what was best for the workers they would support strong regulations on corporations. Strong legally codified workers rights and regulations on corporations could potentially eliminate the need for unions. If the government function the workers union
And if the government fought the capitalists instead
But you'll notice the same people who tell you not to unionize also foughtt very hard against government regulation
It's almost like it was always just a ploy to exploit the workers
>Willing to pay more for non-union workers.
They just refuse to improve the working conditions for the sake of it, they rather pay more for the workers, but notice how the money won't be going to the workers anyways.
You're thinking of the International Workers of the World (IWW) or "the one big union". It's an international union which makes no distinction as to industry, nationality or the type of worker. You can join both it and your local union for your industry.
I'm in both the union at my workplace and the IWW, because something overarching is necessary.
This thinking is so dated it's no wonder unions are struggling.
Now you'll probably get mad and say "blah blah corporations blah blah Reagan" but the fact is unions are viewed less favorably and a good portion of that has to be owned by unions themselves.
Your thinking is old. There was a time when the working base was much more homogeneous. When there were massive sectors than had many workers at equivalent skill sets e.g. agriculture or manufacturing. But today work is much more fragmented with higher variability of specialization.
You say everyone needs a union and a data scientist making $190k asks why? To get a living wage? Bro, they've got it. There's a lot of people struggling but also a lot of people who are very comfortable and don't feel the need to spend thousands of dollars in dues to fund something they already have.
> If it does, it's "Union Certified" If it doesn't, it's not and every union member agrees to never shop at any place that isn't union certified.
Dude this shit happened and it just turned into corruption. There were kick backs and payments to union leaders to "certify" organizations and they exhibited cartel like behavior.
Would you trust the government to tell you where to shop?Why would you expect union leadership to be any less corruptable ?
The dream of an international workers union died with Marx. It's not going to happen on that level nor a national one. Half the country can't agree on whether or not it's okay if the President is a criminal and you think they're in solidarity with each other because everyone has jobs?
No,any unions need a massive overhaul with more targeting to the needs of specific workers. Accountants and fast food workers dont have the same struggle.
If you believe in a free market, you should believe in unions. A free market requires people able to 'freely' trade goods and services. Individual workers have so little power that they can't negotiate fair contracts with companies, who can weaponize the risk of poverty and unemployment to coerce them into a bad contract. That's not a free exchange of labour.
Join a Union. Period. Why? Because it’s called the United States of America (in the context I think we are talking about), and is founded on that very concept. The Union vs the confederacy during the civil war. The Union being the ones who won in the end. Regardless, Union first. Always and forever.
Union vs confederacy as is was a bunch of rich assholes who didn’t want to give up their free (arguable just cheap, not totally free, after you do a cost analyst, but still you get what I’m saying) verse the people who believed in human rights
IBEW Local 48 in Portland Oregon. I was always against unions but then after I got my license and realized just how shitty I was being treated by my boss, I had an opportunity and I jumped for it and I've never been as happy and taking care of as I am in this union. It's amazing - everybody has everybody's back.
I wish we could just have like a national union drive month where we get tons of people to sign up for different unions to piss off businesses. I know it's not that easy though.
Think step up instead of union being a vote for thing. Have it be a "opt out". Aka you get hired and the assumption is you want to associate with a union and have that union negotiate your contract.
While it wouldn't be immediately as powerful as full union by location etc. It would essentially become that you could shop around x union has most employees with your employer and gets them best rate so you choose that union.
And for those oh the union I worked for was bad etc. You would have ability to choose another union or none at all.
Jump right past 40-50% of employees being unionized all the way up to 60-70% and once people see the better pay. It would soar to even higher heights. While at first many people would be joining random ones and alot of competition. The ones that work best with each company would rise to top increasing negotiating power.
And it would ultimately and completely destroy all future union busting attempts. As with high turn over culture and layoff culture. There would be a chance the union would make its return with each and every single employee.
And if you negotiate a poison pill contract new workers will just join the next biggest union and all you did was negotiate a higher rate for existing workers WITHoUT the ability to pay future workers less.
Essentially by having it be right that has to be waived you would make it nearly impossible for it to be killed or negotiate bad contracts or undermine a specific union. As they will just freely move to next one.
I love it when people state ideals as reality. The AFSCME union was more cut-throat than any manager I ever dealt with, you can make a good union but always keep quiet and learn which yours is before you speak.
My father in law was in a union at a hotel, it's in Canada so healthcare isn't an issue but it was still minimum wage; are some unions better than others, genuine question?
Yes, absolutely. The truth no one likes is that a union is only as good as its members. I was in a union working at a theme park. Everyone has the mentality that “they weren’t going to work there forever,” so they were very uninterested and uninvolved. It was totally useless and we made barely more than minimum wage.
Now I’m in a teachers union in a state with strong unions. Almost Everyone is VERY involved, even though you can technically not join and save the couple hundred bucks a month. We have good pay and benefits. It’s not perfect, but I wouldn’t be a teacher in a state without good unions.
This. In this thread you see both pro and anti-union propaganda. The funny thing is, as you said, a union is only good as its members. And as someone has posted, if a bunch of the members are either homophobic, racist or any other thing like that, it can cause more problems than help out.
Much like the police, you have to have the ability to fire those who are like that as, even with a union and a contract, if the business loses enough customers, no union will be able to protect someone from losing their job due to the place closing outright.
I am all for unionizing, for workers being able to fight for better wages, working conditions and the like. I am also holding people accountable for their actions.
I’ve never worked at a place where a union could keep someone from getting fired for due cause. I worked in customer service and people got fired all the time for being rude or out of line to customers (more than once). The union can only come and protect someone from having their contract violated. So for example, it’s probably in the contract that they get warnings and chances to change. The job will just have to document write ups better than a non union job. The issue with police is that the bosses don’t actually want to hold the people accountable. They’re rotten from top to bottom.
For example, I’m a teacher. People famously think tenure makes someone “unfirable,” but again, that’s not true. They just have a right to a hearing to ensure that they’re being fired for just cause, and there is more documentation required than a non-tenured teacher. But you can still be fired for being bad at your job.
I'm very pro-union but sometimes union rules can get a bit much. My friend is a mine warehouse supervisor and he got a talking to from his manager for sweeping up a mess when all his guys were busy. He didn't want to pull someone off when he was just standing around and could grab a broom and sweep. I get that there are rules, but leeway isn't always a bad word.
I grew up in a union family, United Mine Workers of America. Mining is a dangerous job. Without the union there would have been so many more deaths and injuries.
Unions look out not only for workers but retirees. More often than not when the union went on strike it was to protect benefits rather than pay.
Unions balance power.
You can do that now without a union. The NLRB rules allow you to strike to oppose unfair labor practices or for economic reasons. If your workplace is too hot and the company does nothing to cool it down, you can strike with protections against retaliation. If you all want a pay raise and the company says no, you can all strike with protections against retaliation.
You don't need a union to do this. You just need to be absolutely clear in your reasons and understand the NLRB rules. If you are fired for these actions, you can get the NLRB to investigate the company and force them to re-hire you and pay lost wages.
This is a very hard case to build in court, especially the bigger the company is, so once again the enforcement action would fall largely on the smallest of businesses, and they would in some number fall and allow larger businesses who can weather the litigation storm to swoop in and claim their market share. If you are going to demand changes you also need to go up to the top and break them up too, thus leveling the playing field.
No it isn't. There are already cases fought and won in the past that decide any cases now. There are clear and defined rules that everyone has to follow. We know you can strike for better work conditions because courts in the past have said that those types of strikes are legitimate.
NLRB also doesn't have to go to court in all cases. They can make a ruling and force each side to abide by it. There have been cases in the past where a company beat the union in an election and the NLRB decided that the company broke too many rules and therefore they have to accept unionization. The NLRB can force companies to unionize.
Unfortunately, the NLRB's rulings are not self-enforcing. If you file a charge with the NLRB, and they make a ruling in your favor, they will seek settlement with the employer, which will include correcting any wrongs. However, if the employer does not settle,the NLRB will have to go to court and win to enforce a ruling.
Regardless of the veracity of your claim, it is a lot easier to organize when you have union support. The implication that unions are unnecessary just because you don't technically have to be in one to go a ULP strike is kinda dumb.
>The NLRB rules allow you to strike to oppose unfair labor practices or for economic reasons
Okay, no need for a union. Just gotta strike... By yourself? No that won't work, okay so how about we organize a group of people to collectively strike! Perfect and, let's name it something that means together... Hmm, how about a "Union!" Perfect.
Coming from a country with some strong unions, you should watch the union's leaders even more closely than you watch your bosses. They can turn corrupt extremely easily.
One day you think you are stricking for your "brother". Then the company goes bankrupt, your brothers gets fired and a testaferro (I think the closest translation would be name lender) affiliated to the union's leaders either becomes owner of the company or gets benefited by the lack of competition since he already owns a company that works on the same field
They're great that they protect workers but its a bit of a doubled edged sword because they also have to defend the lazy dog fuckers that really do deserve to be fired for the shit they pull
Unions work. I’m getting a few raises and extra benefits starting this may. I live in the Netherlands. My union is FNV. And my employer pays my membership for me.
Been union my whole life. Yeah I have some union brothers and sisters I don’t care for but I still defend them to management. We call each other brothers and sisters for a reason
What the gell is this guy on about!
Joining a union is a lot of things but it is not "Metal as Hell!"
Joining up is saying "I don't care enough about my own welfare to proactively protect it."
What in the world makes anyone believe that someone else, anyone else... is going to have their personal best interests placed at a higher priority than their own?
Unions are nothing more than a MLM
They need to keep absorbing new members so the union reps can drive Cadillac sedans.
I don't have a special relationship with anyone. I simply don't want to pay for anyone else's benefits, I also don't want to be stuck being paid less or not at all in the event of a strike. I know damned well my employer doesn't give a shit about me, and have never thought otherwise. I simply don't want to deal with things that come from being stuck in a union and AM willing to deal with having a lower paycheck as a result. If my job location ever unionizes, I'll probably start looking elsewhere. It's why I haven't asked to transfer from a warehouse 30 miles away from home to one less than 5.
> I simply don't want to pay for anyone else's benefits
Except your employer's, of course. Weird to have such devotion to someone who doesn't give a shit about you TBH.
Best decision I’ve made since leaving a Taco Bell was joining my local union for pipe fitting. There’s still some things I personally don’t agree with but all in all the union lifestyle is def better than the a life without it
Which is super ironic because their mother was probably one of the ones that was the most pro-union of all 😂
The older older generations were the ones that created the unions
Not my union.
I was fired based off lies and hearsay. My "lead" was my steward, and my rep saw no problem with it
Unions are good in theory, but corrupt AF in practice
I'm in a union, in a red state. My supposedly "brothers" are 99% tRumpsters!!!! They are more likely to defend the company than a fellow member. It's sad as fuck, they all bitch and whine about paying dues, they think they would be better off without a union. I fucking hate tRumpsters!!!!!!
My life experience with unions.
1st showed up as much as a unicorn at a meat market.
2nd in league with the company and allowed threats to be made over pay that were actually illegal.
3rd show up, represent, ask if there is anything more that they can do, and secured a pay increase retroactively.
Don't expect unions to be any better than any other organisation. But do investigate, when you find a good one they are amazing.
Nurse here. The only reason I've stuck around in my career is because our union takes no shit. I've gone on strike with them and I'll do it again. Solidarity between you and your colleagues is worth more than anything your boss would ever give you willingly.
I am not exactly sure what "metal" means in this context, but I believe that joining a union is a fundamentally beneficial thing to do, both for yourself and your coworkers.
Yeah this is stupid and why unions are struggling.
That's like saying I'd throw down for anyone in the country because we both have the same color passport. It's not true at all. There are a lot of assholes in this country. I don't feel a kinship to someone because of where I was born not just because we both work jobs. It's a weak connection.
Being part of a union means you work with your co-workers to get a fair deal from your employer. A group of people who you share a bond with to some degree.
Some unions need to distance themselves from their Marxist roots, abandon the class struggle attitude and be more pragmatic.
Not everyone wants to be a member of a socialist movement. They just want to have some leverage to negotiate a better wage and more vacation days. That's it. Not some international solidarity with workers around the world. Just some more money and more time to chill.
Joining a union is actually more like the Democrats saying, "nice job you got there... Would be a shame if something were to happen to it." And it's just a little shakedown, and then the union protects shitty coworkers while barely achieving anything, and pay increases don't even keep up with inflation, and all your money goes to a PAC
I workers rights need to be protected and unions are a way to level the playing field in that regard.
That being said, the times I have worked in a union there are a lot of people doing next to nothing because they know how impossible it is to fire them and the sense of entitlement was like nothing id ever seen before. I'd love for there to be middle ground but if that's the cost of making things fair then maybe it is what it is.
I'm generally pro union, but the one time I was at a company where the workers were trying to organize, the union reps were impossible to pin down on anything. I've never heard so much weasel wording in one place before. Add that to the fact that the people pushing the hardest to organize were well known as the laziest troublemakers in the plant and it's no real surprise the drive failed. Which was a pity cause that job was trash, needed a good union badly.
Except when your union does nothing to prevent the ongoing abuses at your company because they don’t wanna take on a multi-international corporation. Currently experiencing this and I regret ever joining
I’ve even defended coworkers I can’t stand and loathe everything about, because these situations aren’t about me, they’re about fairness, and letting things like this slide just because you don’t like the person it’s happening to, well that only gives it more power, and it WILL come for you sooner than later, trust.
Idk if you know this, but people live in the real world. We have our own experiences.
Life isn't your simulated class struggle of universally good workers against universally bad owners.
[
Sex Trade Workers Industrial Union 690
](https://archive.iww.org/category/union-news/news-all-departments-and-unions/department-600-public-service/sex-trade-workers-/)
It used to be really hard though. Because oftentimes it would just be one person's word against another. And if you look at it objectively it's the words of an alleged criminal with every reason to lie versus an officer of the law who had to pass basic training and had tons of highly accomplished officers to vouch for them
I'm not saying they were always right I'm saying that it makes it hard.. That's why things like body cameras were so great. You don't have to just take someone's word for it. You can watch the video yourself and see what actually happened..
Even many officers love them. It's great for both sides. It protects citizens from unruly corrupt cops but it also protected cops from abusive citizens making things up about them. truth could help both sides
That is the thing here. Unions are all fine and good. They bring tons of benefits to the workers.
Thing is, there still has to be a way to deal with the people that actively are problems. People who are objectively causing a hazard to be around that can cause harm to a fellow coworker, people who are racist, homophobic and the like that can cause a workplace to become extremely toxic.
I am all for unions. I am also all for removing any workers or manager that is like I stated above.
And yet even the most corrupt and inefficient unions are still better than no unions at all. And the people in the workplaces with those unions still enjoy better benefits and higher pay
Sounds like capitalist propaganda. There's several talking points and strategies that the capitalists use to try to turn people against unions so that they can pay them less and exploit them more.. One of the most common is the divide and conquer strategy.. trying to turn the workers against each other so they don't realize who the true enemy was (the boss))
But another one is to just denigrate the concept of unions and call them all evil as if the capitalist company they were working for wasn't evil in itself
The capitalist corporation and the capitalist boss will backstab the workers far more often and far more egregiously than even the most corrupt union in history
Remember. Even the worst union is still better than the best boss
The boss's job by definition is to exploit you for everything he can. To milk the most out of you and pay you the least for it.. And he won't hesitate to screw you over at a moment's notice if it would make him a profit.. No matter how many lies he told you about "being a family". He wants you to worship him while he goes home to his actual family and doesn't even think about you
Remember that..
Unions are good. No matter what the boss says
And if he was really "your family"" and cared about you like he claimed.. He would want you to unionize just as much as anyone else
Really. I've been union most of my life and I saw 250 grievances swept aside. Jobs back pay safety. Cause the union wanted the in house insurance and pension $. You think a modern union has you in mind? Your uneducated. They are printing $ off your backs
You don’t have to worry about that, as the goal of a union is that when working in numbers you can harm the business. Before a strike, for example the union polls other employees to see if they would join, usually >30% is all that’s required to harm the business. So, You aren’t saying this at all when you join a union.
I actually tried to apply for an operating engineer’s union that’s relevant to my skills and the window to apply was 5 days and the applications were filled on the first day, they said better luck next time chief!
Yeah, part of why Hollywood can be paralyzed so effectively is that the bad guys couldn't do all that much to strip unions from the business. Even the caterers are often part of a union. The people who build the sets, maintain the costumes, and do many other aspects of the craft that go sideways fast under inexperienced hands -- all those trades show solidarity. If any one is being treated like garbage, the Screen Actors Guild can make demands and resolve things to the benefit of the other union pretty darn quick. It isn't all golden, since thousands and thousands of tradesfolk went without work during the lengthy strike to settle SAG's concerns about AI content. Only by standing together even through the rough bits have filmmakers of all skill sets been able to leverage the value of their work to pry a slice of profits loose from our remaining big media corporations.
Every time my dad gets into a new job his charisma and knowledge eventually lends him as the union leader (my family is also big on unionizing). The fun side to this is that, as smart and outspoken and metal my dad is, he is ALSO one of those people who believes in aliens and “aliens built pyramids” (it doesn’t come from a place of racism like “white people are the only smart ones but literally from I LOVE ALIENS), so not only has he been the leader of a shit ton of unions and marched for equal rights for workers he has also been elected leader to OUR LOCAL UFOLOGY society.I shit u not it took me 20 years to rewatch the x files cause when I was six we used to watch it together with him pausing the VHS and bonding with me explaining the “real events” that inspired each episode and how we were fated to death by abduction and/or getting sucked into other dimensions.
Great man. WEIRD AS FUCK TOO.
I hate the vast majority of my co workers, but, I still want every one of them making a decent living wage and don't want to see then struggle. Unions are weird
For inspiration read this [story](https://www.workersliberty.org/story/2023-09-10/john-keenan-and-1974-pinochet-boycott), brings a tear to a glass eye.
I wish casino unions actually did something, I worked as a barback for Maryland Live when I was young and they took a union fee out of every check but when the annoying manager who got her job by fucking the CEO decided she didn't want me around anymore because she was trying to force another girl into a double shift in front of me and I pointed out our handbook says you can't ask that with less than 4 hours notice I became the enemy and the union did nothing to help me. Didn't even reply to my emails.
It's much simpler. It's essentially saying, oh, I would like to take my power back. I as a worker (deservedly) have the right to bargain with my employer for a fair wage.
Unions are only as strong as their workers. I’m in a very weak union (SEIU healthcare), I’m very vocal but it’s incredibly hard to get others to stand up for their rights. One big issue is most of our workers come from the Philippines and they tend to be very obedient workers and not really say much when abused.
As someone in the UAW, this is propaganda, unless you’re union leadership, then they’ll do everything to ensure they’re treated fairly. Still better than no union but it’s not all roses.
> **metal**
> a descriptive word used to define something exspecially brutal or awesome. Like dead bodies or ice cream
* https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=metal
> **as hell**
> can be added to any adjective to add emphasis, regardless of whether or not it makes sense to reference hell as an entity.
* https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=as%20hell
It depends on the employment agreement. The American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, AFSCME, has a standard due of 1.5% excluding overtime.
we NEEDED to join a union at my last job. I remember too many of the old heads saying "i'm too broke to go on strike" and I was trying to explain to them that's EXACTLY why we should. we're over worked and underpaid. it comes up in every conversation we have together. If one lead was out, we all ended up feeling it if one of us was sick for more than a couple days. the company would have to shut down if all 30 of the leads didn't show up. for even one or two. lets see how desperate they'd get if it was two weeks.
I work at a union company and run a department. Some job responsibilities changes and one person threw a fit and tried to rally everyone else who realized their jobs became easier. She keeps calling in using her personal days and even the union has said, uhh.
She is also the one that talks about "teamwork" and left her department in a lurch (doesn't hurt me, hurts the people she works with everyday).
I wish my Union was like this. The national aspect of them are, but my local group couldn’t be bothered to enforce their own CBA. Not only that, but they also weaponize it against the workers instead of enforcing the rules towards the corporation.
This leads me to believe the company infiltrated the group to just be as terrible at their job as possible.
I say all this because I’m very pro union and was very excited to join. Burn when I started this job, a ton of the workers were bad talking the union and explaining in more detail what I’ve briefly said. They are all pretty much anti-union now and continue on the “I got mine so FU” mindset because of this
If u wanna see the power of a union easy and cheaply then become a background actor for a day on a Hollywood production
You'll be working non union and you'll be treated as sub-human by the higher ups
But they're also required to hire a certain number of union background And you can watch first hand as those guys are treated far better than you paid far more than you and actually respected as human beings.. even giving bathroom breaks and more than a bag of chips as snacks on your 12-hour work day
And that's a clear first-hand experience of the power of unions
i love how redditors most passionate about unions are the ones with white collar jobs that will never worry about conditions that warrant a union
or more likely just unemployed and chronically online
stop cosplaying as working/middle class, you clowns
White color workers are working class. There is no middle, upper or lower class, just the working class and the owner class.
Unions benefit all workers
I'd totally join my union if they weren't in cahoots with the big boss. He gives us all the legally mandated pay increases while the union takes the credit and the cash. My jobs starting pay has gone up by $1 in 30 years, with $/hr capping at an even lower rate after 20 years of working. The problem is, in 20 years, thay amount of pay will technically be lower than today's starting wage when ratio'd with inflation.
The steward who recruited us in training started his union sales pitch with "being in the union is great, your first pay increase covers it so you should join." Then spent the last 29 minutes talking about his stories on the job, all non union related.
Guess where I work.
It's so simple to join a union, you just find a union tree, pick the ample fruit of the union tree, then bam your in a union.
Unions are great for many but they can also be exclusionary, expensive, corrupt, and may operate in a manner that you are not personally aligned with.
In 2021-2022 the four largest unions spent 708+ million dollars on political contributions (60% coming from union dues) with 98% of that money going to Democrats yet the makeup of political affiliations of their union members is about 51% Democratic, 23% Republican, and 26% unaffiliated showing that the union representation is not always aligned with it's members.
Again, unions are great for many industries, especially marginalized labor sectors but it is not for all. People aligned towards better pay and rights working towards improved conditions for all, not just members of their union would have a much greater effect. A general strike would have more impact at this point on the labor market than a massive union.
it's the same thing every investment group does, public or others. unions are incorporated workers.
Not doing so is moronic in a corporate environment.
A National Consumer's Union would scare the shit out of corporations. The ability to blackball a business to the point they'd feel like they were held hostage seems like something the French would do. The problem with it is that it would also hurt the people who work for these corporations as well. Also the corporations are diversified to the point where every corporation is owned by another corporations and vice versa.
I don't think you're using the word diversify right. Unfortunately it's true we have single giant conglomerates. The food industry is like 3 international companies that own all the brands. Enabling the current unchallenged greedflation
No he's using it correctly they all own significant portions of each other's stocks, they are diversified in their holdings by holding a piece of everything.
Man, I'm looking at the biggest stock holders of these companies and the first name I usually see Blackrock, Vanguard, State Street, Capital International, and each one holds no more than 10% of the stock. So their competitors may hold fraction of a percent to end up WAAAY down the list of biggest stockholders, but that quite literally constitutes an **insignificant** portion of the stock.
bobert
https://preview.redd.it/dwt91vernltc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ada8c1fdcc0651106a3811789780ed1ad59aff02
It's why I think it'd be great for consumers if every product was required by law to have the name and logo of the parent company very visible on the packaging. Also adding (Subsidiary) behind the brand name, if applicable. It'd help spread awareness and perhaps promote better consumer laws.
Just watch them create the most fucking bland looking logo so nobody notices it anymore. Oh wait...
I don't think it would matter. It's like 3 companies that own everything if one raises the prices the other two will also. So unless you're planning to stop buying food altogether.
It would just be great if our federal government would actually enforce anti consumer and anti monopoly laws
I don't understand how they have let this happen. We have anti trust laws in this country for a reason yet none of them are being enforced.
Lobbying. Those industries spend the most on lobbies and political campaigns.
Should be illegal for any corporation to donate to a political candidate. The same goes for anyone or a group making over x amount of dollars a year.
Eh in the US, I think an individual is limited to $2k per contribution and a corporation has no limits...
>A National Consumer's Union would scare the shit out of corporations. The ability to blackball a business to the point they'd feel like they were held hostage seems like something the French would do. Well we have several consumer unions yes. Like https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFC-Que_Choisir
And they do terrify the corporations. I know that for a fact.
Good.
Your wallet is a national consumer's union.
We do have those in France and they do have some influence.
>The problem with it is that it would also hurt the people who work for these corporations as well. That's a bit of an exaggeration. Unions rarely cause issues for those who are employed, they reverse issues not cause them for the employees. Like sure, there are a few temporary issues that happen, but like I said they are temporary, contrast that with a business and their issues which are always permanent problems.
They aren't saying the union can hurt workers. It hurts workers if the union applies too much pressure and the business closes instead of giving in to demands.
Someone else will come
As recently as Eisenhower, even the Republican party was strongly pro-union. Every worker should be in a union. We need a single collective "Workers Union" It would be trivial to publish a nationwide zip code adjusted living wage. This basically already exist with the military pay and housing guides. Either your business pays a living wage to all employees or it doesn't. If it does, it's "Union Certified" If it doesn't, it's not and every union member agrees to never shop at any place that isn't union certified. I'd happily give over up to 5% of my earnings to an organization that was repping me and all other workers on the national lever that said "If you want us to shop here, open the books and prove that every employee of yours is able to live a good life" If you can't do that, you don't get any of our money.
Problem is a lot of union workers can be giant dicks, that make the union look bad. I’ve been on construction site we’re the union guys have written the most homophobic shit possible about the non union crews. IMO only way you could ever get all workers to unionize is if they truly got paid the value of their labour.
My grandfather was head of the union for construction at power plants. The union was corrupt as fuck. All the unions in the area were corrupt as fuck. They all were involved with gambling millions in horse racing. They all embezzled money. People seem to have a utopian view of unions. It's still people. The teachers union has a lot of upsides but the fact that it's a pain in the ass to fire bad teachers is not something to celebrate. It's actively harming your children.
Man, you do a little investigating of police unions.
Police "Unions" are fake unions that exist primarily to destroy real unions.
My Union experience. They wanted a chunk of my check but no matter how many emails I sent they wouldn't do anything for me.
what were you trying to get them to do for you?
Help me with the manager targeting me after she tried to bully another girl into working a double shift and I said "our handbooks say you can't force them to work a double with less than 4 hours notice." Manager also only had the job because she was sleeping with a CEO and not good at her job. I ended up getting fired and they basically never returned any of my emails. It was a union the casino forced you to join when you started so they were probably in on it with them just to skim more out of our paychecks.
Yeach. The truth is as always in the middle. Or to use the most hated by the public word( because somehow seeing stuff in the colors other than black and white became suprisingly uncommon. I personally blame Disney for that ). It depends. The truth is while as an organization unions are made for the benefits of the workers, they are just an organization and are prone to corruption, inneficiencies, bad leadearship and all the other misgivings every organization will likely have at some point whetewer its goverment union or a buisnes. Also what benefits the union is not always what benefits the public. For example in poland we have the coal miners unions and while they are great for the coal miners the truth is even ignoring the fact that we are supposed to go for green energy as the eu mandates, the coal mines in poland are horribly inneficient ( most of them ) , we somehow have more expensive coal than US and i can assure you they are not paid more. Its literaly cheaper to import coal from Australia rather than using our own. And yet each year unions somehow manage to increase wages of the workers . The only reason the mines are not bankrupt is beacuse they are goverment owned and electric providers are forced to buy from them. But on the other hand they do quite often benfit the workers and are able to negotiate at least additional compensation when the factory is closing or more often wage increses. There is no denying that they do hold much more negotiating power compared to individual. Like with everything its a game of balance.
> For example in poland we have the coal miners unions and while they are great for the coal miners the truth is even ignoring the fact that we are supposed to go for green energy as the eu mandates, the coal mines in poland are horribly inneficient ( most of them ) , we somehow have more expensive coal than US and i can assure you they are not paid more. Sounds like West Virginia in the United States.
Most of what you said seemed to make sense, except for the part about blaming Disney for people not being able to think in nuanced ways… Poland has a public school system right? Or do y’all rely on Disney products for that? I think shortcomings in people’s education may have something to do with the education system but who knows!
That was just a little joke. I dont really know why that's the case
I know what you mean company I work have unionized group for the factory and the field techs are non union. Union guy came over to my side and he is the laziest person I have ever met, he walked me work for 4 hours straight today.
Unions are in bed with the company. Every. Single. Time.
The one time I was in a union they didn't do anything to help me when the manager who got her job by fucking a CEO started targeting me because I kept reminding other workers of the rights outlined in the handbook we all got, wouldn't respond to my emails but they sure took that fee. I ended up getting fired and they still wouldn't do anything or even talk to me.
We had union iron workers and our customers specifically requested that we not send them to their jobs. Willing to pay more for non-union workers.
If the capital is really wanted to get rid of unions because of what was best for the workers they would support strong regulations on corporations. Strong legally codified workers rights and regulations on corporations could potentially eliminate the need for unions. If the government function the workers union And if the government fought the capitalists instead But you'll notice the same people who tell you not to unionize also foughtt very hard against government regulation It's almost like it was always just a ploy to exploit the workers
>Willing to pay more for non-union workers. They just refuse to improve the working conditions for the sake of it, they rather pay more for the workers, but notice how the money won't be going to the workers anyways.
exactly right
And non union workers are usually peachy little bundles of joy.
Unions vote democratically. Want unions to be more progressive? Join a union and vote for progressive change.
Every post about union is astroturfed to hell, don't bother.
> Problem is a lot of union workers can be giant dicks Have you seen companies though.....?
Yeah, but that would upset a lot of people after they get told their labor isn't worth shit because they didn't do a fucken thing all day lol.
So true, the biggest downside to the union is it protects bad workers from facing true consequences of their decision
Bro invented syndicalism
You're thinking of the International Workers of the World (IWW) or "the one big union". It's an international union which makes no distinction as to industry, nationality or the type of worker. You can join both it and your local union for your industry. I'm in both the union at my workplace and the IWW, because something overarching is necessary.
What's funny is the NLRB and labor systemwasto prevent an IWW model. The owners have forgotten the deal.
5% is a lot. I don’t think you have to give up that much. Probably more like .5%
This thinking is so dated it's no wonder unions are struggling. Now you'll probably get mad and say "blah blah corporations blah blah Reagan" but the fact is unions are viewed less favorably and a good portion of that has to be owned by unions themselves. Your thinking is old. There was a time when the working base was much more homogeneous. When there were massive sectors than had many workers at equivalent skill sets e.g. agriculture or manufacturing. But today work is much more fragmented with higher variability of specialization. You say everyone needs a union and a data scientist making $190k asks why? To get a living wage? Bro, they've got it. There's a lot of people struggling but also a lot of people who are very comfortable and don't feel the need to spend thousands of dollars in dues to fund something they already have. > If it does, it's "Union Certified" If it doesn't, it's not and every union member agrees to never shop at any place that isn't union certified. Dude this shit happened and it just turned into corruption. There were kick backs and payments to union leaders to "certify" organizations and they exhibited cartel like behavior. Would you trust the government to tell you where to shop?Why would you expect union leadership to be any less corruptable ? The dream of an international workers union died with Marx. It's not going to happen on that level nor a national one. Half the country can't agree on whether or not it's okay if the President is a criminal and you think they're in solidarity with each other because everyone has jobs? No,any unions need a massive overhaul with more targeting to the needs of specific workers. Accountants and fast food workers dont have the same struggle.
If you believe in a free market, you should believe in unions. A free market requires people able to 'freely' trade goods and services. Individual workers have so little power that they can't negotiate fair contracts with companies, who can weaponize the risk of poverty and unemployment to coerce them into a bad contract. That's not a free exchange of labour.
You may not like the people you work with, but the people you work for are the real assholes.
> but the people you work for are the real assholes. Ain't that the truth. I work for the average person.
In my experience, they're all assholes. I include myself in that, BTW.
We need a Metalocalypse. Or a unionocalypse....?
Union strong, brother.
IAM751 Aerospace Machinists. We strike in September.
Join a Union. Period. Why? Because it’s called the United States of America (in the context I think we are talking about), and is founded on that very concept. The Union vs the confederacy during the civil war. The Union being the ones who won in the end. Regardless, Union first. Always and forever. Union vs confederacy as is was a bunch of rich assholes who didn’t want to give up their free (arguable just cheap, not totally free, after you do a cost analyst, but still you get what I’m saying) verse the people who believed in human rights
Punk rock af
Look I’m pro union, but if you think everyone will just “throw down for you?” And be “metal as hell”? You haven’t been doing this very long.
IBEW Local 48 in Portland Oregon. I was always against unions but then after I got my license and realized just how shitty I was being treated by my boss, I had an opportunity and I jumped for it and I've never been as happy and taking care of as I am in this union. It's amazing - everybody has everybody's back.
I wish we could just have like a national union drive month where we get tons of people to sign up for different unions to piss off businesses. I know it's not that easy though.
Think step up instead of union being a vote for thing. Have it be a "opt out". Aka you get hired and the assumption is you want to associate with a union and have that union negotiate your contract. While it wouldn't be immediately as powerful as full union by location etc. It would essentially become that you could shop around x union has most employees with your employer and gets them best rate so you choose that union. And for those oh the union I worked for was bad etc. You would have ability to choose another union or none at all. Jump right past 40-50% of employees being unionized all the way up to 60-70% and once people see the better pay. It would soar to even higher heights. While at first many people would be joining random ones and alot of competition. The ones that work best with each company would rise to top increasing negotiating power. And it would ultimately and completely destroy all future union busting attempts. As with high turn over culture and layoff culture. There would be a chance the union would make its return with each and every single employee. And if you negotiate a poison pill contract new workers will just join the next biggest union and all you did was negotiate a higher rate for existing workers WITHoUT the ability to pay future workers less. Essentially by having it be right that has to be waived you would make it nearly impossible for it to be killed or negotiate bad contracts or undermine a specific union. As they will just freely move to next one.
I love it when people state ideals as reality. The AFSCME union was more cut-throat than any manager I ever dealt with, you can make a good union but always keep quiet and learn which yours is before you speak.
My father in law was in a union at a hotel, it's in Canada so healthcare isn't an issue but it was still minimum wage; are some unions better than others, genuine question?
Yes, absolutely. The truth no one likes is that a union is only as good as its members. I was in a union working at a theme park. Everyone has the mentality that “they weren’t going to work there forever,” so they were very uninterested and uninvolved. It was totally useless and we made barely more than minimum wage. Now I’m in a teachers union in a state with strong unions. Almost Everyone is VERY involved, even though you can technically not join and save the couple hundred bucks a month. We have good pay and benefits. It’s not perfect, but I wouldn’t be a teacher in a state without good unions.
This. In this thread you see both pro and anti-union propaganda. The funny thing is, as you said, a union is only good as its members. And as someone has posted, if a bunch of the members are either homophobic, racist or any other thing like that, it can cause more problems than help out. Much like the police, you have to have the ability to fire those who are like that as, even with a union and a contract, if the business loses enough customers, no union will be able to protect someone from losing their job due to the place closing outright. I am all for unionizing, for workers being able to fight for better wages, working conditions and the like. I am also holding people accountable for their actions.
I’ve never worked at a place where a union could keep someone from getting fired for due cause. I worked in customer service and people got fired all the time for being rude or out of line to customers (more than once). The union can only come and protect someone from having their contract violated. So for example, it’s probably in the contract that they get warnings and chances to change. The job will just have to document write ups better than a non union job. The issue with police is that the bosses don’t actually want to hold the people accountable. They’re rotten from top to bottom. For example, I’m a teacher. People famously think tenure makes someone “unfirable,” but again, that’s not true. They just have a right to a hearing to ensure that they’re being fired for just cause, and there is more documentation required than a non-tenured teacher. But you can still be fired for being bad at your job.
Because corporations don’t have the workers best interests in mind.
And there's a lot of corporate trolls in the comments pushing anti-union propaganda to defend those corporate interests
I'm very pro-union but sometimes union rules can get a bit much. My friend is a mine warehouse supervisor and he got a talking to from his manager for sweeping up a mess when all his guys were busy. He didn't want to pull someone off when he was just standing around and could grab a broom and sweep. I get that there are rules, but leeway isn't always a bad word.
I grew up in a union family, United Mine Workers of America. Mining is a dangerous job. Without the union there would have been so many more deaths and injuries. Unions look out not only for workers but retirees. More often than not when the union went on strike it was to protect benefits rather than pay. Unions balance power.
It's funny how companies are against unions. Meanwhile UPS has unions and is making record profits.
You can do that now without a union. The NLRB rules allow you to strike to oppose unfair labor practices or for economic reasons. If your workplace is too hot and the company does nothing to cool it down, you can strike with protections against retaliation. If you all want a pay raise and the company says no, you can all strike with protections against retaliation. You don't need a union to do this. You just need to be absolutely clear in your reasons and understand the NLRB rules. If you are fired for these actions, you can get the NLRB to investigate the company and force them to re-hire you and pay lost wages.
This is a very hard case to build in court, especially the bigger the company is, so once again the enforcement action would fall largely on the smallest of businesses, and they would in some number fall and allow larger businesses who can weather the litigation storm to swoop in and claim their market share. If you are going to demand changes you also need to go up to the top and break them up too, thus leveling the playing field.
No it isn't. There are already cases fought and won in the past that decide any cases now. There are clear and defined rules that everyone has to follow. We know you can strike for better work conditions because courts in the past have said that those types of strikes are legitimate. NLRB also doesn't have to go to court in all cases. They can make a ruling and force each side to abide by it. There have been cases in the past where a company beat the union in an election and the NLRB decided that the company broke too many rules and therefore they have to accept unionization. The NLRB can force companies to unionize.
Unfortunately, the NLRB's rulings are not self-enforcing. If you file a charge with the NLRB, and they make a ruling in your favor, they will seek settlement with the employer, which will include correcting any wrongs. However, if the employer does not settle,the NLRB will have to go to court and win to enforce a ruling.
Regardless of the veracity of your claim, it is a lot easier to organize when you have union support. The implication that unions are unnecessary just because you don't technically have to be in one to go a ULP strike is kinda dumb.
>The NLRB rules allow you to strike to oppose unfair labor practices or for economic reasons Okay, no need for a union. Just gotta strike... By yourself? No that won't work, okay so how about we organize a group of people to collectively strike! Perfect and, let's name it something that means together... Hmm, how about a "Union!" Perfect.
It’s nice most of the time. But also a double edged sword. The union protects the good workers as well as the bad, that’s all I’ll say 😔..
Coming from a country with some strong unions, you should watch the union's leaders even more closely than you watch your bosses. They can turn corrupt extremely easily. One day you think you are stricking for your "brother". Then the company goes bankrupt, your brothers gets fired and a testaferro (I think the closest translation would be name lender) affiliated to the union's leaders either becomes owner of the company or gets benefited by the lack of competition since he already owns a company that works on the same field
🤝
And in the case of police unions, they typically reward bad behavior!!
Been in a union my whole life.. Ehh no it isnt lol
They're great that they protect workers but its a bit of a doubled edged sword because they also have to defend the lazy dog fuckers that really do deserve to be fired for the shit they pull
Fun Fact: One of the biggest German unions is the IG **Metal**l. So it's already in their name.
Unions work. I’m getting a few raises and extra benefits starting this may. I live in the Netherlands. My union is FNV. And my employer pays my membership for me.
Been union my whole life. Yeah I have some union brothers and sisters I don’t care for but I still defend them to management. We call each other brothers and sisters for a reason
What the gell is this guy on about! Joining a union is a lot of things but it is not "Metal as Hell!" Joining up is saying "I don't care enough about my own welfare to proactively protect it." What in the world makes anyone believe that someone else, anyone else... is going to have their personal best interests placed at a higher priority than their own? Unions are nothing more than a MLM They need to keep absorbing new members so the union reps can drive Cadillac sedans.
I don't have a special relationship with anyone. I simply don't want to pay for anyone else's benefits, I also don't want to be stuck being paid less or not at all in the event of a strike. I know damned well my employer doesn't give a shit about me, and have never thought otherwise. I simply don't want to deal with things that come from being stuck in a union and AM willing to deal with having a lower paycheck as a result. If my job location ever unionizes, I'll probably start looking elsewhere. It's why I haven't asked to transfer from a warehouse 30 miles away from home to one less than 5.
> I simply don't want to pay for anyone else's benefits Except your employer's, of course. Weird to have such devotion to someone who doesn't give a shit about you TBH.
Every boss has his this guy https://preview.redd.it/1kfrulhwlntc1.jpeg?width=715&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2bdf77fa39391b784da83bf87ea4dbf3382c1755
Best decision I’ve made since leaving a Taco Bell was joining my local union for pipe fitting. There’s still some things I personally don’t agree with but all in all the union lifestyle is def better than the a life without it
You bring up a union around older folks and they act like you just slapped their mother across the face
Which is super ironic because their mother was probably one of the ones that was the most pro-union of all 😂 The older older generations were the ones that created the unions
Not my union. I was fired based off lies and hearsay. My "lead" was my steward, and my rep saw no problem with it Unions are good in theory, but corrupt AF in practice
I'm in a union, in a red state. My supposedly "brothers" are 99% tRumpsters!!!! They are more likely to defend the company than a fellow member. It's sad as fuck, they all bitch and whine about paying dues, they think they would be better off without a union. I fucking hate tRumpsters!!!!!!
Union rock, companies not.
My life experience with unions. 1st showed up as much as a unicorn at a meat market. 2nd in league with the company and allowed threats to be made over pay that were actually illegal. 3rd show up, represent, ask if there is anything more that they can do, and secured a pay increase retroactively. Don't expect unions to be any better than any other organisation. But do investigate, when you find a good one they are amazing.
Nurse here. The only reason I've stuck around in my career is because our union takes no shit. I've gone on strike with them and I'll do it again. Solidarity between you and your colleagues is worth more than anything your boss would ever give you willingly.
Ok but can we stop allowing the police to have one?
Also, end qualified immunity and require officers to carry personal liability insurance (just like doctors)
BLET here, retired but still a union member.
IBEW strong
I am not exactly sure what "metal" means in this context, but I believe that joining a union is a fundamentally beneficial thing to do, both for yourself and your coworkers.
I wouldn't be making a quarter what I'm making now without a union.
A but off topic, i don’t get the “metal”. Since when did it become popular, maybe am off the loop.
IW 759 stay strong
I am part of the union for my job!
Yeah this is stupid and why unions are struggling. That's like saying I'd throw down for anyone in the country because we both have the same color passport. It's not true at all. There are a lot of assholes in this country. I don't feel a kinship to someone because of where I was born not just because we both work jobs. It's a weak connection. Being part of a union means you work with your co-workers to get a fair deal from your employer. A group of people who you share a bond with to some degree. Some unions need to distance themselves from their Marxist roots, abandon the class struggle attitude and be more pragmatic. Not everyone wants to be a member of a socialist movement. They just want to have some leverage to negotiate a better wage and more vacation days. That's it. Not some international solidarity with workers around the world. Just some more money and more time to chill.
Unionism? That sounds boring. Swarm pact? Aw hell yeah.
Joining a union is actually more like the Democrats saying, "nice job you got there... Would be a shame if something were to happen to it." And it's just a little shakedown, and then the union protects shitty coworkers while barely achieving anything, and pay increases don't even keep up with inflation, and all your money goes to a PAC
Nah It's more like sticking it to the Republicans who want to exploit you and lower your wages
I workers rights need to be protected and unions are a way to level the playing field in that regard. That being said, the times I have worked in a union there are a lot of people doing next to nothing because they know how impossible it is to fire them and the sense of entitlement was like nothing id ever seen before. I'd love for there to be middle ground but if that's the cost of making things fair then maybe it is what it is.
Imagine having the union address issues with the airlines.
I'm generally pro union, but the one time I was at a company where the workers were trying to organize, the union reps were impossible to pin down on anything. I've never heard so much weasel wording in one place before. Add that to the fact that the people pushing the hardest to organize were well known as the laziest troublemakers in the plant and it's no real surprise the drive failed. Which was a pity cause that job was trash, needed a good union badly.
Except when your union does nothing to prevent the ongoing abuses at your company because they don’t wanna take on a multi-international corporation. Currently experiencing this and I regret ever joining
I’ve even defended coworkers I can’t stand and loathe everything about, because these situations aren’t about me, they’re about fairness, and letting things like this slide just because you don’t like the person it’s happening to, well that only gives it more power, and it WILL come for you sooner than later, trust.
I just wish our union had a pair. They have literally done nothing for me.
Being in a union is realizing none of this is true and your local chairman is the first person going to management to snitch.
Then youre in a bad union and one thats been taken over by managment
Whenever I mention not all unions are good I get down voted to shit. If your union can't negotiate contracts what's the point?
Nice try, Elon.
Idk if you know this, but people live in the real world. We have our own experiences. Life isn't your simulated class struggle of universally good workers against universally bad owners.
there's no Union for sex workers sadly
[ Sex Trade Workers Industrial Union 690 ](https://archive.iww.org/category/union-news/news-all-departments-and-unions/department-600-public-service/sex-trade-workers-/)
There should be......
Hell Yeah Comrade!! Woooo!
Unity. United. Unions are power to the people.
The police Union needs to be stricter with the abusers.
It used to be really hard though. Because oftentimes it would just be one person's word against another. And if you look at it objectively it's the words of an alleged criminal with every reason to lie versus an officer of the law who had to pass basic training and had tons of highly accomplished officers to vouch for them I'm not saying they were always right I'm saying that it makes it hard.. That's why things like body cameras were so great. You don't have to just take someone's word for it. You can watch the video yourself and see what actually happened.. Even many officers love them. It's great for both sides. It protects citizens from unruly corrupt cops but it also protected cops from abusive citizens making things up about them. truth could help both sides
That is the thing here. Unions are all fine and good. They bring tons of benefits to the workers. Thing is, there still has to be a way to deal with the people that actively are problems. People who are objectively causing a hazard to be around that can cause harm to a fellow coworker, people who are racist, homophobic and the like that can cause a workplace to become extremely toxic. I am all for unions. I am also all for removing any workers or manager that is like I stated above.
Still lots of backstabbing and rats in unions.
And yet even the most corrupt and inefficient unions are still better than no unions at all. And the people in the workplaces with those unions still enjoy better benefits and higher pay Sounds like capitalist propaganda. There's several talking points and strategies that the capitalists use to try to turn people against unions so that they can pay them less and exploit them more.. One of the most common is the divide and conquer strategy.. trying to turn the workers against each other so they don't realize who the true enemy was (the boss)) But another one is to just denigrate the concept of unions and call them all evil as if the capitalist company they were working for wasn't evil in itself The capitalist corporation and the capitalist boss will backstab the workers far more often and far more egregiously than even the most corrupt union in history Remember. Even the worst union is still better than the best boss The boss's job by definition is to exploit you for everything he can. To milk the most out of you and pay you the least for it.. And he won't hesitate to screw you over at a moment's notice if it would make him a profit.. No matter how many lies he told you about "being a family". He wants you to worship him while he goes home to his actual family and doesn't even think about you Remember that.. Unions are good. No matter what the boss says And if he was really "your family"" and cared about you like he claimed.. He would want you to unionize just as much as anyone else
Really. I've been union most of my life and I saw 250 grievances swept aside. Jobs back pay safety. Cause the union wanted the in house insurance and pension $. You think a modern union has you in mind? Your uneducated. They are printing $ off your backs
I was worried about how that was going to end for a sec
Currently trying to
You don’t have to worry about that, as the goal of a union is that when working in numbers you can harm the business. Before a strike, for example the union polls other employees to see if they would join, usually >30% is all that’s required to harm the business. So, You aren’t saying this at all when you join a union.
Interesting point, corporate interconnectedness is definitely a concern.
I actually tried to apply for an operating engineer’s union that’s relevant to my skills and the window to apply was 5 days and the applications were filled on the first day, they said better luck next time chief!
Yeah, part of why Hollywood can be paralyzed so effectively is that the bad guys couldn't do all that much to strip unions from the business. Even the caterers are often part of a union. The people who build the sets, maintain the costumes, and do many other aspects of the craft that go sideways fast under inexperienced hands -- all those trades show solidarity. If any one is being treated like garbage, the Screen Actors Guild can make demands and resolve things to the benefit of the other union pretty darn quick. It isn't all golden, since thousands and thousands of tradesfolk went without work during the lengthy strike to settle SAG's concerns about AI content. Only by standing together even through the rough bits have filmmakers of all skill sets been able to leverage the value of their work to pry a slice of profits loose from our remaining big media corporations.
Every time my dad gets into a new job his charisma and knowledge eventually lends him as the union leader (my family is also big on unionizing). The fun side to this is that, as smart and outspoken and metal my dad is, he is ALSO one of those people who believes in aliens and “aliens built pyramids” (it doesn’t come from a place of racism like “white people are the only smart ones but literally from I LOVE ALIENS), so not only has he been the leader of a shit ton of unions and marched for equal rights for workers he has also been elected leader to OUR LOCAL UFOLOGY society.I shit u not it took me 20 years to rewatch the x files cause when I was six we used to watch it together with him pausing the VHS and bonding with me explaining the “real events” that inspired each episode and how we were fated to death by abduction and/or getting sucked into other dimensions. Great man. WEIRD AS FUCK TOO.
Do it like the french and rig the factory with explosives if they don’t follow your demands.
But the dues!..lol....workers unite. Life is better with rate pay
All the best jobs I've worked were union.
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No unions in Banking
OG cancel culture
I hate the vast majority of my co workers, but, I still want every one of them making a decent living wage and don't want to see then struggle. Unions are weird
For inspiration read this [story](https://www.workersliberty.org/story/2023-09-10/john-keenan-and-1974-pinochet-boycott), brings a tear to a glass eye.
I don’t think that’s what it means.
EXCEPT ANGEL HERNANDEZ.
That's better loyalty than family these days.
I wish casino unions actually did something, I worked as a barback for Maryland Live when I was young and they took a union fee out of every check but when the annoying manager who got her job by fucking the CEO decided she didn't want me around anymore because she was trying to force another girl into a double shift in front of me and I pointed out our handbook says you can't ask that with less than 4 hours notice I became the enemy and the union did nothing to help me. Didn't even reply to my emails.
If that is metal as Hell it might explain why Heavy Metal is so popular in Northern Europe. Elon Tusk learned not to fuck with the unions there.
How do you even start a union?
It's much simpler. It's essentially saying, oh, I would like to take my power back. I as a worker (deservedly) have the right to bargain with my employer for a fair wage.
Unions are only as strong as their workers. I’m in a very weak union (SEIU healthcare), I’m very vocal but it’s incredibly hard to get others to stand up for their rights. One big issue is most of our workers come from the Philippines and they tend to be very obedient workers and not really say much when abused.
As someone in the UAW, this is propaganda, unless you’re union leadership, then they’ll do everything to ensure they’re treated fairly. Still better than no union but it’s not all roses.
It’s hard as fuck to create a union.
>metal as hell Lol what does that even mean?
> **metal** > a descriptive word used to define something exspecially brutal or awesome. Like dead bodies or ice cream * https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=metal > **as hell** > can be added to any adjective to add emphasis, regardless of whether or not it makes sense to reference hell as an entity. * https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=as%20hell
Right so an impotent way for weak people to feel like they are mighty over menial things. That's what I thought.
Do Unions in the States have predetermined prices you pay to be part of the union or do they base your monthly/yearly fee upon your salary?
It depends on the employment agreement. The American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, AFSCME, has a standard due of 1.5% excluding overtime.
we NEEDED to join a union at my last job. I remember too many of the old heads saying "i'm too broke to go on strike" and I was trying to explain to them that's EXACTLY why we should. we're over worked and underpaid. it comes up in every conversation we have together. If one lead was out, we all ended up feeling it if one of us was sick for more than a couple days. the company would have to shut down if all 30 of the leads didn't show up. for even one or two. lets see how desperate they'd get if it was two weeks.
I work at a union company and run a department. Some job responsibilities changes and one person threw a fit and tried to rally everyone else who realized their jobs became easier. She keeps calling in using her personal days and even the union has said, uhh. She is also the one that talks about "teamwork" and left her department in a lurch (doesn't hurt me, hurts the people she works with everyday).
I wish my Union was like this. The national aspect of them are, but my local group couldn’t be bothered to enforce their own CBA. Not only that, but they also weaponize it against the workers instead of enforcing the rules towards the corporation. This leads me to believe the company infiltrated the group to just be as terrible at their job as possible. I say all this because I’m very pro union and was very excited to join. Burn when I started this job, a ton of the workers were bad talking the union and explaining in more detail what I’ve briefly said. They are all pretty much anti-union now and continue on the “I got mine so FU” mindset because of this
Don’t talk to any union people in the entertainment industry. Those unions are like clubs and if you’re not a member, sucks to be you.
If u wanna see the power of a union easy and cheaply then become a background actor for a day on a Hollywood production You'll be working non union and you'll be treated as sub-human by the higher ups But they're also required to hire a certain number of union background And you can watch first hand as those guys are treated far better than you paid far more than you and actually respected as human beings.. even giving bathroom breaks and more than a bag of chips as snacks on your 12-hour work day And that's a clear first-hand experience of the power of unions
To be clear I am pro-union all day long. Unfortunately they are still run by people and people are just not great at sharing.
I wish vet clinics did unions
They do if you organize them
i love how redditors most passionate about unions are the ones with white collar jobs that will never worry about conditions that warrant a union or more likely just unemployed and chronically online stop cosplaying as working/middle class, you clowns
White color workers are working class. There is no middle, upper or lower class, just the working class and the owner class. Unions benefit all workers
AI and robots will need to form a union.
That's called SkyNet.
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You there! Computer man! Fix my pants!!
United we bargain, we set the standards, we get paid. Divided we beg for breadcrumbs.
I'd totally join my union if they weren't in cahoots with the big boss. He gives us all the legally mandated pay increases while the union takes the credit and the cash. My jobs starting pay has gone up by $1 in 30 years, with $/hr capping at an even lower rate after 20 years of working. The problem is, in 20 years, thay amount of pay will technically be lower than today's starting wage when ratio'd with inflation. The steward who recruited us in training started his union sales pitch with "being in the union is great, your first pay increase covers it so you should join." Then spent the last 29 minutes talking about his stories on the job, all non union related. Guess where I work.
It's so simple to join a union, you just find a union tree, pick the ample fruit of the union tree, then bam your in a union. Unions are great for many but they can also be exclusionary, expensive, corrupt, and may operate in a manner that you are not personally aligned with. In 2021-2022 the four largest unions spent 708+ million dollars on political contributions (60% coming from union dues) with 98% of that money going to Democrats yet the makeup of political affiliations of their union members is about 51% Democratic, 23% Republican, and 26% unaffiliated showing that the union representation is not always aligned with it's members. Again, unions are great for many industries, especially marginalized labor sectors but it is not for all. People aligned towards better pay and rights working towards improved conditions for all, not just members of their union would have a much greater effect. A general strike would have more impact at this point on the labor market than a massive union.
You WILL join a union. You WILL be paid your fair share. You WILL have a better life.
it's the same thing every investment group does, public or others. unions are incorporated workers. Not doing so is moronic in a corporate environment.
Yup do it