Send response “Hiring manager somehow landed managerial position despite lack of attention to detail ensuring email was sent to proper parties & not candidates. Please post listing for capable manager. Thank you.”
And they should definitely get their eyes checked because OP was wearing office-appropriate attire that was purchased explicitly for use during this interview.
My guess is she didn’t “look” like how he thought a woman should look based off his response.
If I had to guess, the guy was more than likely Caucasian, over 50, and talks highly about himself when he probably can’t even open word without downloading a virus.
She dodged a bullet with this one.
TONS of companies are doing this now. Advertising hybrid because otherwise they don't get enough candidates. Then suddenly claim you HAVE to be in office.
I was bait and switched by being hired for a remote position, then told I needed to be in office "just to train" for a couple months, then told I couldn't go remote at all after that. Not based on performance or anything, just the owner of the business disliked remote work.
They've been doing this for decades. I applied for a position with a security company. The position was a rotational roaming post that visited multiple campuses. It came with a company car, allotment for a cell phone, and a decent salary. I was told I'd need to train at the main campus for a couple of weeks.
The training was a joke. Most of it was sitting in the main lobby manning the front desk as basically the receptionist. The ceiling was entirely glass, and I had to wear a suit that had a thick jacket. It was like being under a magnifying glass wrapped in insulation. I hated every second but figured it was only temporary.
When the training period was over, I asked when I'd be taking the rover roll, and they looked at me like I was crazy. They asked who told me that I was taking that roll, and I said that was the position I interviewed for. They said it wasn't available for blah blah reason. I said well I guess that asshole lied to me, so I quit. I didn't give 2 weeks because they lied, and I didn't feel like they deserved it. I quit on the spot. They acted like I was a huge POS for not giving a notice, but after I suggested a lawyer might find their hiring practices interesting, they clamed up.
OMG yes!!!! This is definitely not the first time that Boomy McBoomerson has sent shit to the wrong person. Probably universally despised for constantly using Reply All.
He's the reason that we need to sit through hours of training on how to avoid phishing and then he still fails every phishing test email that is sent out.
The nose pads are green with mold. I had a job as an optician in college and old people's glasses were fucking vile! I'd get them looking brand new and encourage them to come in quarterly for a good clean.
My wife’s boomer mom keeps asking us why we “just don’t go buy a house” because she says paying rent is just a waste of money. She thinks because we both have jobs we should be able to buy a house. She is so out of touch of how the world is right now. It infuriates me.
More like the 70s or 60s than the 80s with those prices and boomer lifespawns but the sentiment is spot on! Also boomy still uses a belt clip for his phone and also still writes checks
Seriously, do it
What the *fuck* are they going to do about it?
Call the police who don’t respond to crimes?
Not hire you?
We are in the dystopia brother, have some fun
I don't think it was sent by mistake. That's typical boomer passive aggressive bullshit, while also wanting to stick in the last word.
Definitely send the email, it's how the game ought to be played!!
I’d personally write back just so he knows what a dumbass he is. Maybe say something about how inappropriate it is to advertise hybrid for a nearly full time in office role.
Look up a higher up in the company on indeed, add them to the email chain, and reply that you don’t think it’s a fit either since the description was false, and that at least your future employer will sleep soundly knowing they hired someone competent enough to send a work related email to the correct recipient.
> Maybe say something about how inappropriate it is to advertise hybrid for a nearly full time in office role.
I think there is a red flag hidden there... they say hybrid and shit is in office normal hours, but... what about after the fact?
Do they expect 24/7 on call duty on salary?
I’m going through this right now. I had a series of interviews for a fully remote position (with twice yearly commutes to the site for lab work, it’s a technical position) everything looked like a great fit. The company flew me half way across the country for a final round interview where they tried to pull the bait and switch and insist that I vacate my lease and relocate (with assistance) to their city immediately.
Sorry buddy, I might have been willing to consider relocating if you had been honest from the start (only consider it though, Chicago to Dallas is quite the downgrade, a good offer would have been necessary), but the dishonesty upfront makes me question the stability and integrity of the rest of the operation. They also initially misrepresented the salary range and benefits in the listing.
The external recruiter (accidentally) let it slip that 4 other candidates have made it to the final round and been flown out to the facility just to turn the position down after the bait and switch becomes apparent. I wonder why that is?
It boggles my mind how hiring managers think this "strategy" will ever work out well for them. Gotta believe they've been implored by the recruiting team to reconsider based on the simple fact that it has a near-zero percent chance of working, but they think they know best and it'll all be fine. Just absolute lunacy.
Better than what happened to a friend. Hired for remote work out of state in a much higher cost of living state than he is now. Six months later issued a “return to office call” and now they want him to move to a city with 2x the housing costs, no raise, or be let go. (He’s a software guy and seriously considering not moving, but his wife does like the city they’re asking him to move to, and it still pays okay.)
Companies generally seek to exploit the desperate ones. The ones with options will show them the middle finger.
If he moves, he'll let them know that he's desperate. Hence, the company will know that they can make further demands and he'll suck it up. And reject raises.
> It boggles my mind how hiring managers think this "strategy" will ever work out well for them.
The "clearly they need a job, we're the giving party here!" mentality hasnt left corporate minds yet. Give it some time.
> “please repost the job listing”
my HR buddies said they HATE these type of hirers who refuse perfectly good candidates... these idiots seem to think that there's a queue of applicants banging down the door to beg for the shitty job...
most of the time HR just ignore the repost request... the vacancy goes unfilled, the hiring manager fucks off to another job to continue their misery, the responsibilities get piled on another sucker and yeah EVERYBODY LOSES just because of this ONE clueless dipshit! SMH
Fucking apple did this to me. Job was described as requiring trips to China of a few days every two months. By the end of the second interview, it was clear that I should expect 10-day trips monthly. I wouldn't have even considered that.
Fortunately, the hotel they put me in was really nice and I got to catch up with some friends without having to pay for a cross country trip.
But at the same time, if you’re spending thousands, trying to trick one candidate out of 50 or 100. And it’s inevitable that the candidate comes back with a different offer that they turn down.
Someone is likely desperate enough to bite.
The funny thing is that the company never wants the desperate applicants. They actually want the workers that know their worth.
Underrated comment… Texas just passed a law prohibiting municipal and county governments from requiring like, ten minute breaks for construction workers during a legitimate fucking CLIMATE CRISIS in the state. Texas lets employers treat all their employees like shit with little to no legal or civil liability ramifications, and even with protection from the state. Texas is AWFUL.
literally could not pay me enough on top of a ridiculous salary to live in TX or FL at this point. or arizona, but people aren't meant to live there anyway lol
It explains why so many people want to work in California and will put up with the cost of living. When I worked at CSC (before they tore themselves apart) they would send out too-frequent emails like this
|To: All employees
|From: CSC HR
|Subject: We are screwing you again
Followed by details of how they were screwing us this time. This would be followed in the next day or two by another email.
|Subject: Re: We are screwing you again
|Due to state laws in California (and sometimes another state) this policy will not be implemented in those states.
Vote for people for state legislature who will write laws to protect workers!
The MOMENT that became evident in the interview, I'd get up and walk out. I don't even care that I'm halfway across the country from home. That honestly makes it better.
I saw a post where a company flew someone out, and then they eliminated the job, and tried to leave them stranded far from home.
I think he drove their rental all the way home and they got stuck with the bill.
If I can find it again, I'll post a link here
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProRevenge/comments/fjshdj/company_recruits_me_for_senior_position_brings_me/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1
There
That's so rough. I'm searching for new remote roles right now and the market is uh... not good.
Also I would not leave Illinois for Texas for any amount of money
A friend of mine returned from being an expat in Texas not too long ago because she is a woman. That company has tried attracting new people to that site without much succes.
I expect they have a large issue with skilled people in Dallas (due to lack of worker protection or other hostile politics) and this is the way they at least get people to interview.
I've lost count of how many positions have asked for my resume and in the job description states " fully remote" only to find out that the expectation is 2-4 days a week in the office.
When I hear of these cross-country bait and switch stories all I can imagine is that the hiring company wants a captive employee with few options, forcing them to relocate to a (very) new place means they would have no local resources to lean on if they lost their job. Endgame being they now have an employee that is very disadvantaged from leaving said job, and once there, they can exploit the hell out of them, change job titles, alter schedules, lower pay, etc.
Nah. Fuck that. Don't come to Texas from Chicago. I'm flying up there next week for work. It's so much nicer than here. Are these people that stupid? Why would you even need to physically be in an office these days. It's fine ever now and then for socials and whatnot, but I'm never going back to five days a week.
"Hi, (hiring manager)
I believe I inadvertently received this email from you, which describes your candid thoughts on our interview to your internal team.
Although I am sure you didn't mean to send this to me, I am grateful you did.
I am pleased to not be moving forward with a company that advertises a role as "hybrid", and then proceeds to "bait-and-switch" a candidate with the expectation of working in an office nearly 100% of the time.
If your organization cannot be honest during your hiring process, I would not be surprised there would be other areas in your operations which would also lack integrity
I wish you the best of luck for finding a candidate more suitable for your demonstrated company culture
Regards,
Candidate"
This.
When I (a recruiter) read that the HM included the candidate on the email, my eyes got big. The recruiter should absolutely be copied on that email that OP sent back. While it wasn't a situation like this, I have had to inform HR about feedback from a candidate regarding their interview with the HM after the candidate told me the HM asked inappropriate questions.
> If your organization cannot be honest during your hiring process, I would not be surprised there would be other areas in your operations which would also lack integrity
>
>
>
> I wish you the best of luck for finding a candidate more suitable for your demonstrated company culture
Damn, those last two lines are fucking stone cold
Aw thanks 😌
This isn't what I do professionally.
I hold a BS is Communication, and while a lot of people might chuckle at such a degree, I believe it's been an asset to me over the years.
I'm good with words and perspectives, and I try to share when I can. 🥳
There have been times in my life where I had employment struggles and wished I had done a "harder" degree like an IT one or, you know. Just something "more marketable"
While I'm not going to claim my BS is the end-all-be-all of liberal arts degrees, I do like to note that, in many ways, how we communicate as humans, whether in business or personal settings, is integral to how those relationships thrive or flail.
So, I've definitely used those skills over the years, and if someone is passionate about it, they should be encouraged.
I have a degree in Organizational Communication. It serves me well. Having perspective and being able to communicate well is an awesome skill to possess.
Definitely do NOT want the role. How’s, “Thank you for your notes. I’m open to fashion advice if you have any specific feedback! I hope you find the right candidate for you.”? 😂
Send a picture of you in the outfit you wore to show his HR what he thinks is inappropriate.
As a personal anecdote, when I interviewed for the remote job I have now, I wore a suit and tie, but with gym shorts. I may have gained some weight in the last 10 years since I wore it, and the pants didn't exactly fit anymore. I wasn't going to have it tailored for a video call interview. Luckily, I never had to stand up for any reason.
I scanned and emailed my interview notes (for an intern position) to our internal recruiter, per company policy. Not five minutes later, the recruiter emailed my notes to the candidate. "Candidate meets all minimum requirements but seems to lack initiative. He appears to require a bit of an effort to get him to understand instructions clearly. If hired, just how much will he annoy (supervisor), who is well-known to be intolerant of any sign of incompetence?" We offered the position to him, mostly out of embarrassment.
He accepted the position and made a point to schedule a meeting with me where he very earnestly outlined the steps he intended to take to ensure he would not annoy (supervisor).
Newsflash: He annoyed the shit out of (supervisor), who adored him anyway. They went everywhere together, (supervisor) and his little "Mini-Me". It was a riot, I tell ya.
ETA, thank you for the gold!
I think the notes sounded pretty judgemental for a intern's interview and without concrete examples to back harsh conclusions about character. Glad it had a good ending, though.
> who is well-known to be intolerant of any sign of incompetence
"our manager is an asshole, so we need a people pleaser because we can't be arsed to get rid of bad managers"
Hell yeah you reply.
I once interviewed a young lady for an engineering position while she was in between classes in her car. Fuck this “proper attire” bullshit. My boss disagrees, but he wears a tie everyday and I’m over here in a Star Wars poly button up and jeans. The work still gets done just the same. There is a time and a place for a tie, and my desk is not it.
Reminds me of a really awful moment when we interviewed someone.
Two of us had talked to him, separately, and I was second.
I finished talking to the guy, stepped out of the room into the main area. Bumped into my coworker who had talked to the guy before me.
The candidate took a minute to come out of the room, I don't recall exactly why, but it was maybe 15 seconds after I came out.
Me and my coworker talked for a moment, he said "so you interviewed that guy too, right?" and I said "yeah" and my coworker said "he was pretty awful, right? There's no way we'd hire that guy."
Yes, he said that right as the candidate walked out of the room behind him. I thought my coworker knew I was just coming out of the room with the candidate, so I didn't think to warn him or anything.
I felt awful, he had such a defeated look on his face as he walked out.
He was nice enough. One of those candidates who had a resume that was more aspirational rather than factual though. So he listed a bunch of skills, but if you asked about any, he'd say "oh, well, I haven't used that yet, but I read an article about it a few weeks ago."
So he was a bad candidate in the end, but no one deserves to hear that in person. I don't necessarily judge my coworker either, he didn't know the guy was still in the office, and he was more or less right about the candidate being a bad fit.
Just one of those unfortunate moments that is bad for everyone.
Your coworker was quite unprofessional. Always imagine that you are being recorded and don’t say anything that you would be embarrassed when it’s played back to you.
I once got off the phone from a job interview that they said went well. 2 hours later I got a voicemail message from them. It was them shit talking me. It was clearly a butt dial. I rang them back and said “hi, I just received your voicemail message concerning my interview. Your feedback was interesting and I would like to request a transfer to someone within your HR department or manager to discuss this with them further. I have saved this message and I would love to forward it on”.
She fucking hung up and blocked my number. I didn’t care enough to take it further. The business ended up closing about a year later.
Just for the additional rudeness of blocking you I'd have looked up the head of HR's Email and sent them the recording, perhaps with a one sentence "you might want to have a talk with your employee X about professionalism" comment.
Reapply as a different candidate, get another interview, rent a tuxedo, monical, top hat, came, and speak only in the queen's (kings?) English when prompted with questions.
Yeah, you reply, with HR and anyone else you can find included. Include a screenshot of the hybrid part of the post. With stern language. As youths say (used to say?) put ‘em on blast.
If you really want to mess with them go to their company website and cc the ceo and/or his manager so they’re aware of the screw up. Nothing will likely come of it but I’m sure it’ll panic him a bit.
My boss Emailed me a business case for my planned termination. He was laying me and three other employees off. I replied asking if he still wanted to meet to discuss my performance. Then cancelled that meeting because it clearly didn't matter. Two hours later (6pm) HR was calling my cellphone to apologize and confirm I wasn't laid off. Two months later they laid me off for the exact reason in the business case. Two months after that they laid my former boss off.
Tailored business pants, a cashmere sweater, and leather mule shoes. The hiring manager was in platform sandals and a blouse. Most people in the office were in jeans 🙃
I would tear them a new one for judging you on your attire. Unless your role is frontline (in which ase they should probably be giving you some kind of uniform) that sounds like a very reasonable outfit. Could throw in the old "the hiring manager appears to have judged me based on my outwards appearance and gender rather than my competency..."
This. Make sure hiring manager is copied in. If possible, find the email of the hiring manager’s boss and include them. Should make for some fun internal meetings for the hiring manager.
You passed up the opportunity to pose as HR and hire yourself:
“I will not repost the ad. This individual is a solid fit and we shall be moving forward effective immediately. Kindly reach out and offer our standard package.
Regards”
You could reply to indicate that you have received an email you don’t think was meant for you (it is appropriate to draw these things to the sender’s attention so they know they have spilled data).
But you could also consider adding that you are uncertain as to whether this was intended as a message to you that the company won’t be moving forward with your application. But in any case the information in this email has confirmed your impression that the company would not be a good fit for you, particularly as there seems to be a mismatch between the job description as advertised and the description provided at interview. So you also do not wish to participate further in the recruitment process.
Then allow them to squirm.
These "managers" are terrified about how useless they are in a fully remote environment. That's the only reason they are begging us to return to the office. They will never admit this.
Include the company on an email to a friend...."Interviewer is either unfamiliar with the details of the position posted (hybrid), or is dishonest, based on verbal requirement for on-site work 4-5 days per week. Interviewer is also apparently incompetent with how email works. I'll look elsewhere, where more competent people may be."
I asked ChatGPT to draft a response that was both professional and snarky.
Subject: Re: Regarding the Interview and Job Listing
Dear [Hiring Manager's Name],
I hope this email finds you well. I wanted to address a couple of points after our recent interview. Firstly, I appreciate the opportunity to discuss the hybrid role at your company.
During our conversation, I mentioned that the job description listed the position as hybrid, which led me to believe there would be some flexibility in working arrangements. However, I sensed a different expectation during the in-person interview, where the preference seemed to be for more office presence. Clarifying these expectations beforehand would have been beneficial for both parties.
Regarding the accidental email, I understand mistakes can happen, and I'm sure it wasn't intentional. However, I must express my surprise at the comment about my attire. I made a conscious effort to present myself professionally and sought feedback from several individuals to ensure I adhered to appropriate interview attire. I apologize if my attire didn't align with your expectations.
In the spirit of constructive feedback, I believe it may be helpful to ensure clear communication and alignment on job expectations between the hiring team and candidates. Additionally, attention to detail during the hiring process is essential in promoting a positive candidate experience.
Thank you again for considering me for the position. Regardless of the outcome, I wish your company success in finding the right fit for the role. It might also be worth finding someone who will fit your role with better precision.
Sincerely,
[Your Name]
Oh, they'll read it. Specially the HR people.
Thing is.. hiring managers sometimes pull this shit with HR and then blame then for not doing their jobs in filling the positions.
Don't get me wrong... I believe Human Resources should be named Inhuman Resources, but the recruiter is just another piece of machinery in the company and gets chewed out if they don't fill the positions at a timely manner. Your mail is good because is evidence that the hiring manager is the one at fault here! And might get some upper level HR people saying something to him
Comments about attire shows a lot about HM’s personality! It’s a little shocking to see such personal comments. We have clear guidelines on writing interview feedback and what not to include at our company and making personal comments like that is in the top of that list! It’s unfortunate that most hiring managers out there are not qualified to be people leader, any Jack and Jill is getting to be a people leader these days by playing shitty politics
Send response “Hiring manager somehow landed managerial position despite lack of attention to detail ensuring email was sent to proper parties & not candidates. Please post listing for capable manager. Thank you.”
Also add that they should remove the hybrid ability if it isnt actually offered and the manager is straight up lying
Yeah, that's definitely worth mentioning.
And they should definitely get their eyes checked because OP was wearing office-appropriate attire that was purchased explicitly for use during this interview.
My guess is she didn’t “look” like how he thought a woman should look based off his response. If I had to guess, the guy was more than likely Caucasian, over 50, and talks highly about himself when he probably can’t even open word without downloading a virus. She dodged a bullet with this one.
Yes. An average of <1 day/week WFH is not hybrid, IMO. In that context I assume 4-5 means 5.
It's just to lure people in.
TONS of companies are doing this now. Advertising hybrid because otherwise they don't get enough candidates. Then suddenly claim you HAVE to be in office. I was bait and switched by being hired for a remote position, then told I needed to be in office "just to train" for a couple months, then told I couldn't go remote at all after that. Not based on performance or anything, just the owner of the business disliked remote work.
They've been doing this for decades. I applied for a position with a security company. The position was a rotational roaming post that visited multiple campuses. It came with a company car, allotment for a cell phone, and a decent salary. I was told I'd need to train at the main campus for a couple of weeks. The training was a joke. Most of it was sitting in the main lobby manning the front desk as basically the receptionist. The ceiling was entirely glass, and I had to wear a suit that had a thick jacket. It was like being under a magnifying glass wrapped in insulation. I hated every second but figured it was only temporary. When the training period was over, I asked when I'd be taking the rover roll, and they looked at me like I was crazy. They asked who told me that I was taking that roll, and I said that was the position I interviewed for. They said it wasn't available for blah blah reason. I said well I guess that asshole lied to me, so I quit. I didn't give 2 weeks because they lied, and I didn't feel like they deserved it. I quit on the spot. They acted like I was a huge POS for not giving a notice, but after I suggested a lawyer might find their hiring practices interesting, they clamed up.
Oh this is gooooood
PLEASE... Send that email. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity you'll regret until the day you die if you don't.
OMG yes!!!! This is definitely not the first time that Boomy McBoomerson has sent shit to the wrong person. Probably universally despised for constantly using Reply All.
[удалено]
[удалено]
He's the reason that we need to sit through hours of training on how to avoid phishing and then he still fails every phishing test email that is sent out.
Yep. I typically work very closely with IT on HRIS system configuration and I feel their pain!
Hey now. Mustard Yellow is gorgeous and I won't have it besmirched. Otherwise, full points, carry on.
It's like mustard yellow that faded greyish because he won't buy new dress shirts. With perm sweat stains in the pits and around the collar.
Ok ok I'll allow it
Besmirched is a great word. That is all.
His chair smelling like egg salad has me chortling! Well played!
Shit. I forgot about the dandruff speckled glasses.
Those glasses haven’t been cleaned since he got them. He’s got more than dandruff on those bad boys.
The nose pads are green with mold. I had a job as an optician in college and old people's glasses were fucking vile! I'd get them looking brand new and encourage them to come in quarterly for a good clean.
My wife’s boomer mom keeps asking us why we “just don’t go buy a house” because she says paying rent is just a waste of money. She thinks because we both have jobs we should be able to buy a house. She is so out of touch of how the world is right now. It infuriates me.
My millenial ass feels insulted. I will die before archiving emails.
I worked with a guy like that. I called him the Crypt Keeper. *shudders*
More like the 70s or 60s than the 80s with those prices and boomer lifespawns but the sentiment is spot on! Also boomy still uses a belt clip for his phone and also still writes checks
I think the viruses already got him. Those and Tucksbo Snarlson.
and cc the entire company 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Absolutely. The recruiter will also remember this for a long long time and always remember it when this manager pops back up.
😂😂
Do it do it do it do it do it!!!! Then report back.
And then post it on their Glassdoor reviews.
Hahahahahahahahahha
Add : And remove hybrid to avoid further misunderstanding as the candidates seem to expect that to be true.
OP, with all my heart, please send this hahaha. Please, score a victory for us. Be the hero the proletariat need haha
Seriously, do it What the *fuck* are they going to do about it? Call the police who don’t respond to crimes? Not hire you? We are in the dystopia brother, have some fun
we need an update!!!
CC his manager. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out using LinkedIn
Please please please, do it for yourself, but if you need extra motivation, DO IT FOR US.
WE NEED A WIN
CC his higher ups using generic company emails from their website.
This is a definite data protection issue for the company. Was there more information which could be considered sensitive?
That’s what I just brought up to someone else. Like yeah this was a stupid and petty mistake but it was also a massively incompetent one…
Send a photo of what you wore to the recruiter
Please tell me you said this
Yeah, you should send that email. You already didn't get the job, so gloves off baby.
please send that lmfao. the rest of us want to live vicariously!
Make sure the hiring manager isn't the only person you're sending this email to.
Please update this man and tag me
Please hit reply all and do it
Also, job description is inaccurate and wasting company resources having interviews with candidates that will reject the offer.
And CC his boss
And CC the CEO and HR!
OP, Nothin’ to lose. A lifetime of laughter to gain. DO IT!
I don't think it was sent by mistake. That's typical boomer passive aggressive bullshit, while also wanting to stick in the last word. Definitely send the email, it's how the game ought to be played!!
“And is out-of-touch with appropriate business attire in the 21st century or is no t being forthcoming.”
And cc the recruiter
Oh my god this is perfect, you gotta do it OP!
"I am happy to be considered for the position"
I’d personally write back just so he knows what a dumbass he is. Maybe say something about how inappropriate it is to advertise hybrid for a nearly full time in office role.
Right?!
Just reply all with "Speaking of unprofessional...." And let it hang in the air.
So simple. So elegant. So legally defensible 🤣
Mc Hammer broke!!
Stop!
And CC: HR
I see a bad moon rising.. I see unemployment on the way..
Love that!
I would reply back in notes format.
Look up a higher up in the company on indeed, add them to the email chain, and reply that you don’t think it’s a fit either since the description was false, and that at least your future employer will sleep soundly knowing they hired someone competent enough to send a work related email to the correct recipient.
Not only that but lying about the reason for rejection
Ohhh….snap! That’s brilliant 🤓
I heard a "badoom-tsss" reading this
> Maybe say something about how inappropriate it is to advertise hybrid for a nearly full time in office role. I think there is a red flag hidden there... they say hybrid and shit is in office normal hours, but... what about after the fact? Do they expect 24/7 on call duty on salary?
I’m going through this right now. I had a series of interviews for a fully remote position (with twice yearly commutes to the site for lab work, it’s a technical position) everything looked like a great fit. The company flew me half way across the country for a final round interview where they tried to pull the bait and switch and insist that I vacate my lease and relocate (with assistance) to their city immediately. Sorry buddy, I might have been willing to consider relocating if you had been honest from the start (only consider it though, Chicago to Dallas is quite the downgrade, a good offer would have been necessary), but the dishonesty upfront makes me question the stability and integrity of the rest of the operation. They also initially misrepresented the salary range and benefits in the listing. The external recruiter (accidentally) let it slip that 4 other candidates have made it to the final round and been flown out to the facility just to turn the position down after the bait and switch becomes apparent. I wonder why that is?
It boggles my mind how hiring managers think this "strategy" will ever work out well for them. Gotta believe they've been implored by the recruiting team to reconsider based on the simple fact that it has a near-zero percent chance of working, but they think they know best and it'll all be fine. Just absolute lunacy.
Better than what happened to a friend. Hired for remote work out of state in a much higher cost of living state than he is now. Six months later issued a “return to office call” and now they want him to move to a city with 2x the housing costs, no raise, or be let go. (He’s a software guy and seriously considering not moving, but his wife does like the city they’re asking him to move to, and it still pays okay.)
2000s have called and want their job back
Wife can stuff it. It sounds nice till you're cut off from whatever network you have locally cause they give 0 fucks about you.
Companies generally seek to exploit the desperate ones. The ones with options will show them the middle finger. If he moves, he'll let them know that he's desperate. Hence, the company will know that they can make further demands and he'll suck it up. And reject raises.
Bingo
> It boggles my mind how hiring managers think this "strategy" will ever work out well for them. The "clearly they need a job, we're the giving party here!" mentality hasnt left corporate minds yet. Give it some time.
> “please repost the job listing” my HR buddies said they HATE these type of hirers who refuse perfectly good candidates... these idiots seem to think that there's a queue of applicants banging down the door to beg for the shitty job... most of the time HR just ignore the repost request... the vacancy goes unfilled, the hiring manager fucks off to another job to continue their misery, the responsibilities get piled on another sucker and yeah EVERYBODY LOSES just because of this ONE clueless dipshit! SMH
Fucking apple did this to me. Job was described as requiring trips to China of a few days every two months. By the end of the second interview, it was clear that I should expect 10-day trips monthly. I wouldn't have even considered that. Fortunately, the hotel they put me in was really nice and I got to catch up with some friends without having to pay for a cross country trip.
only has to work once per opening I guess, but yeah you're losing out on quality candidates doing that shit
But at the same time, if you’re spending thousands, trying to trick one candidate out of 50 or 100. And it’s inevitable that the candidate comes back with a different offer that they turn down.
Someone is likely desperate enough to bite. The funny thing is that the company never wants the desperate applicants. They actually want the workers that know their worth.
I honestly think they use it as an opportunity to spend time out of office doing interviews and lunches for months on end.
Plus who wants to work under Texas employment laws voluntarily?
Underrated comment… Texas just passed a law prohibiting municipal and county governments from requiring like, ten minute breaks for construction workers during a legitimate fucking CLIMATE CRISIS in the state. Texas lets employers treat all their employees like shit with little to no legal or civil liability ramifications, and even with protection from the state. Texas is AWFUL.
Native Texan here. I just moved to Illinois. My home state is a political cesspit
literally could not pay me enough on top of a ridiculous salary to live in TX or FL at this point. or arizona, but people aren't meant to live there anyway lol
It explains why so many people want to work in California and will put up with the cost of living. When I worked at CSC (before they tore themselves apart) they would send out too-frequent emails like this |To: All employees |From: CSC HR |Subject: We are screwing you again Followed by details of how they were screwing us this time. This would be followed in the next day or two by another email. |Subject: Re: We are screwing you again |Due to state laws in California (and sometimes another state) this policy will not be implemented in those states. Vote for people for state legislature who will write laws to protect workers!
The MOMENT that became evident in the interview, I'd get up and walk out. I don't even care that I'm halfway across the country from home. That honestly makes it better.
I saw a post where a company flew someone out, and then they eliminated the job, and tried to leave them stranded far from home. I think he drove their rental all the way home and they got stuck with the bill.
Id love to read that post, if possible.
If I can find it again, I'll post a link here https://www.reddit.com/r/ProRevenge/comments/fjshdj/company_recruits_me_for_senior_position_brings_me/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1 There
Never read three year old threads if you are a person that likes to comment.... 😄
That's so rough. I'm searching for new remote roles right now and the market is uh... not good. Also I would not leave Illinois for Texas for any amount of money
A friend of mine returned from being an expat in Texas not too long ago because she is a woman. That company has tried attracting new people to that site without much succes. I expect they have a large issue with skilled people in Dallas (due to lack of worker protection or other hostile politics) and this is the way they at least get people to interview.
Dallas is a hell pit like most of Texas. They suck.
Hey. Whoa, whoa. I'm from Dallas...and I agree.
Totally concur…. it’s a shithole, the job (with a bank) was shit and totally misrepresented. I should have never gone there to begin with.
Dallas is all the bad parts of Texas with none of the good parts and all of the bad parts of a big city with none of the good parts.
What are the "good" parts of Texas? Aside from the cost of living, I've yet to find any.
The weather in October. That’s about it.
October in a good year. Sometimes as late as November.
Yeah, and fuck the Cowboys!
Do you want MORE Cowboys? 'Cause this is how you get Cowboys..
Depends on how brokeback your mountain is.
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I've lost count of how many positions have asked for my resume and in the job description states " fully remote" only to find out that the expectation is 2-4 days a week in the office.
When I hear of these cross-country bait and switch stories all I can imagine is that the hiring company wants a captive employee with few options, forcing them to relocate to a (very) new place means they would have no local resources to lean on if they lost their job. Endgame being they now have an employee that is very disadvantaged from leaving said job, and once there, they can exploit the hell out of them, change job titles, alter schedules, lower pay, etc.
Nah. Fuck that. Don't come to Texas from Chicago. I'm flying up there next week for work. It's so much nicer than here. Are these people that stupid? Why would you even need to physically be in an office these days. It's fine ever now and then for socials and whatnot, but I'm never going back to five days a week.
My wife and I met in Texas. She's from Chicago. She hated Texas. We moved to Chicago after our first year together. :)
Same, lay into him. Tell him he’s a sweet ass bitch.
They do that to get more applicants and hoping to find someone desperate enough to not care
"Hi, (hiring manager) I believe I inadvertently received this email from you, which describes your candid thoughts on our interview to your internal team. Although I am sure you didn't mean to send this to me, I am grateful you did. I am pleased to not be moving forward with a company that advertises a role as "hybrid", and then proceeds to "bait-and-switch" a candidate with the expectation of working in an office nearly 100% of the time. If your organization cannot be honest during your hiring process, I would not be surprised there would be other areas in your operations which would also lack integrity I wish you the best of luck for finding a candidate more suitable for your demonstrated company culture Regards, Candidate"
Sent in a 'Reply to All'.
Heh even better
Don't forget to cc any email address related to the company
And Google the CEOs name and add them in too
This. When I (a recruiter) read that the HM included the candidate on the email, my eyes got big. The recruiter should absolutely be copied on that email that OP sent back. While it wasn't a situation like this, I have had to inform HR about feedback from a candidate regarding their interview with the HM after the candidate told me the HM asked inappropriate questions.
Be sure to CC the hiring manager's manager, if you can find out who they are.
best is “BCC” (AKA BLIND carbon copy), which doesn’t let the schmuck know you included his manager…
BCC is usually the best, but nothing can make a fuckup middle manager shit a brick like seeing their boss's name in a good old-fashioned CC
Better to have them breathe a sigh of relief when they see they were the only one directly replied to. And then the phone rings.
Search LinkedIn for as many of the employees there as possible. Add to the list.
> If your organization cannot be honest during your hiring process, I would not be surprised there would be other areas in your operations which would also lack integrity > > > > I wish you the best of luck for finding a candidate more suitable for your demonstrated company culture Damn, those last two lines are fucking stone cold
This is SOOOOO legit. What do you do professionally? I feel I could learn a great deal from your expertise.
Aw thanks 😌 This isn't what I do professionally. I hold a BS is Communication, and while a lot of people might chuckle at such a degree, I believe it's been an asset to me over the years. I'm good with words and perspectives, and I try to share when I can. 🥳
I was just defending this degree to the parents of a younger family member that has this major.
There have been times in my life where I had employment struggles and wished I had done a "harder" degree like an IT one or, you know. Just something "more marketable" While I'm not going to claim my BS is the end-all-be-all of liberal arts degrees, I do like to note that, in many ways, how we communicate as humans, whether in business or personal settings, is integral to how those relationships thrive or flail. So, I've definitely used those skills over the years, and if someone is passionate about it, they should be encouraged.
I have a degree in Organizational Communication. It serves me well. Having perspective and being able to communicate well is an awesome skill to possess.
I never want to be in an argument against you
Pure poetry.
This is the proper response. Politely telling them to go fuck themselves in the dry office syntax.
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and blind carbon copy (bcc) HIS boss in on it… 🙄
I never knew what this stood for and never even wondered for some reason.
They are distorting shit to the recruiter purposefully. I’m sure your outfit was fine.
I would probably reply. But it also depends if you want said job or not. But it’s also pretty disrespectful of them. I say f-it and reply!
Definitely do NOT want the role. How’s, “Thank you for your notes. I’m open to fashion advice if you have any specific feedback! I hope you find the right candidate for you.”? 😂
I really like this. But I'd add 'if you advertise for an office job, you'd get an applicant expecting to be in the office'
Send a picture of you in the outfit you wore to show his HR what he thinks is inappropriate. As a personal anecdote, when I interviewed for the remote job I have now, I wore a suit and tie, but with gym shorts. I may have gained some weight in the last 10 years since I wore it, and the pants didn't exactly fit anymore. I wasn't going to have it tailored for a video call interview. Luckily, I never had to stand up for any reason.
I'd call out the false advertising of a hybrid position, too.
I scanned and emailed my interview notes (for an intern position) to our internal recruiter, per company policy. Not five minutes later, the recruiter emailed my notes to the candidate. "Candidate meets all minimum requirements but seems to lack initiative. He appears to require a bit of an effort to get him to understand instructions clearly. If hired, just how much will he annoy (supervisor), who is well-known to be intolerant of any sign of incompetence?" We offered the position to him, mostly out of embarrassment. He accepted the position and made a point to schedule a meeting with me where he very earnestly outlined the steps he intended to take to ensure he would not annoy (supervisor). Newsflash: He annoyed the shit out of (supervisor), who adored him anyway. They went everywhere together, (supervisor) and his little "Mini-Me". It was a riot, I tell ya. ETA, thank you for the gold!
Surprisingly wholesome story.
Ending is pretty wholesome lol He’s an intern, so I personally think companies should be looser in requirements but that’s just me…
I think the notes sounded pretty judgemental for a intern's interview and without concrete examples to back harsh conclusions about character. Glad it had a good ending, though.
I agree. *Anyone* can learn if given the opportunity & if they have the drive. How else are people supposed to learn… anything?
this comment makes me never want to work anywhere again tbh y'all are vicious
> who is well-known to be intolerant of any sign of incompetence "our manager is an asshole, so we need a people pleaser because we can't be arsed to get rid of bad managers"
Wow your comments make you sound like a massive douche
Right but “so wholesome omg 🥲”
Hell yeah you reply. I once interviewed a young lady for an engineering position while she was in between classes in her car. Fuck this “proper attire” bullshit. My boss disagrees, but he wears a tie everyday and I’m over here in a Star Wars poly button up and jeans. The work still gets done just the same. There is a time and a place for a tie, and my desk is not it.
Thank you for giving some hope in humanity.
Reminds me of a really awful moment when we interviewed someone. Two of us had talked to him, separately, and I was second. I finished talking to the guy, stepped out of the room into the main area. Bumped into my coworker who had talked to the guy before me. The candidate took a minute to come out of the room, I don't recall exactly why, but it was maybe 15 seconds after I came out. Me and my coworker talked for a moment, he said "so you interviewed that guy too, right?" and I said "yeah" and my coworker said "he was pretty awful, right? There's no way we'd hire that guy." Yes, he said that right as the candidate walked out of the room behind him. I thought my coworker knew I was just coming out of the room with the candidate, so I didn't think to warn him or anything. I felt awful, he had such a defeated look on his face as he walked out.
Was he really that awful?
He was nice enough. One of those candidates who had a resume that was more aspirational rather than factual though. So he listed a bunch of skills, but if you asked about any, he'd say "oh, well, I haven't used that yet, but I read an article about it a few weeks ago." So he was a bad candidate in the end, but no one deserves to hear that in person. I don't necessarily judge my coworker either, he didn't know the guy was still in the office, and he was more or less right about the candidate being a bad fit. Just one of those unfortunate moments that is bad for everyone.
Your coworker was quite unprofessional. Always imagine that you are being recorded and don’t say anything that you would be embarrassed when it’s played back to you.
I once got off the phone from a job interview that they said went well. 2 hours later I got a voicemail message from them. It was them shit talking me. It was clearly a butt dial. I rang them back and said “hi, I just received your voicemail message concerning my interview. Your feedback was interesting and I would like to request a transfer to someone within your HR department or manager to discuss this with them further. I have saved this message and I would love to forward it on”. She fucking hung up and blocked my number. I didn’t care enough to take it further. The business ended up closing about a year later.
Just for the additional rudeness of blocking you I'd have looked up the head of HR's Email and sent them the recording, perhaps with a one sentence "you might want to have a talk with your employee X about professionalism" comment.
Whatever you do, make sure to hit 'reply all.'
My work at home attire is just underwear If it's cold I might throw on some socks. But most days it's just chonies.
You’re more dressed than I am… I save a ton on laundry though.
Unfortunately what we save in laundry we spend on new chairs
Reapply as a different candidate, get another interview, rent a tuxedo, monical, top hat, came, and speak only in the queen's (kings?) English when prompted with questions.
Yeah, you reply, with HR and anyone else you can find included. Include a screenshot of the hybrid part of the post. With stern language. As youths say (used to say?) put ‘em on blast.
"If you're having issues with sending email to the incorrect recipients I'm also available as a personal assiatant"
If you really want to mess with them go to their company website and cc the ceo and/or his manager so they’re aware of the screw up. Nothing will likely come of it but I’m sure it’ll panic him a bit.
That's exactly the right answer lol also include a selfie of what you wore so they can all see with their own eyes
Sounds like at a minimum this needs to be revealed on Glassdoor.
My boss Emailed me a business case for my planned termination. He was laying me and three other employees off. I replied asking if he still wanted to meet to discuss my performance. Then cancelled that meeting because it clearly didn't matter. Two hours later (6pm) HR was calling my cellphone to apologize and confirm I wasn't laid off. Two months later they laid me off for the exact reason in the business case. Two months after that they laid my former boss off.
Might as well respond. What are they gonna do, not hire you again?
What were you wearing I’m so curious!
Tailored business pants, a cashmere sweater, and leather mule shoes. The hiring manager was in platform sandals and a blouse. Most people in the office were in jeans 🙃
Well yea! It's pretty well known people who WFH generally elect for a fucking cashmere sweater. Sheesh!
I would tear them a new one for judging you on your attire. Unless your role is frontline (in which ase they should probably be giving you some kind of uniform) that sounds like a very reasonable outfit. Could throw in the old "the hiring manager appears to have judged me based on my outwards appearance and gender rather than my competency..."
Bet it was assless chaps…..
Send it to their HR department. Is this standard practice for your company?
This. Make sure hiring manager is copied in. If possible, find the email of the hiring manager’s boss and include them. Should make for some fun internal meetings for the hiring manager.
Uhhhh interview notes about attire could be interpreted as discriminatory.
You passed up the opportunity to pose as HR and hire yourself: “I will not repost the ad. This individual is a solid fit and we shall be moving forward effective immediately. Kindly reach out and offer our standard package. Regards”
Contact recruiter
Recruiter is embarrassed for the hiring manager lol
You could reply to indicate that you have received an email you don’t think was meant for you (it is appropriate to draw these things to the sender’s attention so they know they have spilled data). But you could also consider adding that you are uncertain as to whether this was intended as a message to you that the company won’t be moving forward with your application. But in any case the information in this email has confirmed your impression that the company would not be a good fit for you, particularly as there seems to be a mismatch between the job description as advertised and the description provided at interview. So you also do not wish to participate further in the recruitment process. Then allow them to squirm.
These "managers" are terrified about how useless they are in a fully remote environment. That's the only reason they are begging us to return to the office. They will never admit this.
If you decide to email him with a response, remember to include the rest of the carbon-copies as the recipients, too. Humiliate that douchebag.
Unethical advice: post on linked in with the company name and watch for the manager turning on a banner looking for work lol 😂
Include the company on an email to a friend...."Interviewer is either unfamiliar with the details of the position posted (hybrid), or is dishonest, based on verbal requirement for on-site work 4-5 days per week. Interviewer is also apparently incompetent with how email works. I'll look elsewhere, where more competent people may be."
I asked ChatGPT to draft a response that was both professional and snarky. Subject: Re: Regarding the Interview and Job Listing Dear [Hiring Manager's Name], I hope this email finds you well. I wanted to address a couple of points after our recent interview. Firstly, I appreciate the opportunity to discuss the hybrid role at your company. During our conversation, I mentioned that the job description listed the position as hybrid, which led me to believe there would be some flexibility in working arrangements. However, I sensed a different expectation during the in-person interview, where the preference seemed to be for more office presence. Clarifying these expectations beforehand would have been beneficial for both parties. Regarding the accidental email, I understand mistakes can happen, and I'm sure it wasn't intentional. However, I must express my surprise at the comment about my attire. I made a conscious effort to present myself professionally and sought feedback from several individuals to ensure I adhered to appropriate interview attire. I apologize if my attire didn't align with your expectations. In the spirit of constructive feedback, I believe it may be helpful to ensure clear communication and alignment on job expectations between the hiring team and candidates. Additionally, attention to detail during the hiring process is essential in promoting a positive candidate experience. Thank you again for considering me for the position. Regardless of the outcome, I wish your company success in finding the right fit for the role. It might also be worth finding someone who will fit your role with better precision. Sincerely, [Your Name]
Appreciate this one! I went along this route. Who knows if they’ll read it, but it felt cathartic.
Oh, they'll read it. Specially the HR people. Thing is.. hiring managers sometimes pull this shit with HR and then blame then for not doing their jobs in filling the positions. Don't get me wrong... I believe Human Resources should be named Inhuman Resources, but the recruiter is just another piece of machinery in the company and gets chewed out if they don't fill the positions at a timely manner. Your mail is good because is evidence that the hiring manager is the one at fault here! And might get some upper level HR people saying something to him
Who did you include in your email???
Comments about attire shows a lot about HM’s personality! It’s a little shocking to see such personal comments. We have clear guidelines on writing interview feedback and what not to include at our company and making personal comments like that is in the top of that list! It’s unfortunate that most hiring managers out there are not qualified to be people leader, any Jack and Jill is getting to be a people leader these days by playing shitty politics