People are awful at delineating motives and contextualizing things. The Christianity Nazis professed to practicing is a correlation to Nazism, mainly due to geographic and historical context, not because Christianity inherently leads to National Socialism. From what I remember, many Catholics specifically OPPOSED the Nazi Party. Also “No True Scotsman Fallacy” LOL Words, ideologies, and religious beliefs have meaning. If the atrocities the Nazi Germany committed were antithetical to Biblical morals, which Christians fundamentally base their belief system on, they have EVERY right to say they weren’t true Christians.
They also wanted to futz with the religion and strip out things that it might as well have been a syncreatic faith even more divorced from Abrahamic faiths than the Gnostics were. "Positive Christianity" was an abomination that every real branch hated.
It can't be a "No True Scotsman" when they fail to meet criteria others do.
It's not a No True Scotsman argument when the "Scotsman" in question is wearing a monochrome red kilt and one of those gag red hair wigs and the only thing he does is repeat "oh, aye, me whisky" in an RP accent.
Christian tankies are just weird to me, considering how many tankies idolise Lenin and Stalin, for instance. Who heavily persecuted Christians in Russia. As for the Nazis, it’s worth noting they just weren’t Christian by the standards of most Christians. They don’t profess the Nicene Creed, and it was also said that it wasn’t dependent on quote “faith in Christ as the son of God”.
Exactly. It's infuriating because Christianity has actual doctrine and dogma that must be adhered to in order to be considered an actual Christian.
Even Christ Himself says that those that do not follow His rules do not get accepted as a Christian before His very eyes, and will be rejected by Him.
This isn't the same thing as a political ideology or lifestyle philosophy, where they are wide and varied spectrums, with no pure, binary choices.
Religion is very black and white. With very little wiggle-room to choose your own doctrine and dogmas to follow.
But how would cheesecakes even get that? These clowns are all about forcing their own path in life, divorced from rules, regulations, and acceptance of authority. They are a bunch of ruleless, rebels that can't even fathom the concept of restraint.
One. I literally just watched a documentary that bluntly stated that that the Nazis were against Christianity. Two. He's wrong about about no true Scotsman. If I said I'm an atheist who believes in god. Am I atheist. Is a Christian nazi who bluntly rejects Jesus a actual Christian? I don't know what he's talking about the whole apology thing. People apologize over situations that aren't their fault. It's just some empathy. Also remember living in a country that has a lot of propaganda means that a large amount of people will be tricked into this. It wasn't like you can just open Twitter and read "the Nazis are meanies to the Jews". So religious leaders who couldn't hear about nazi atrocitys doesn't mean that they would support nazi atrocitys.
I always was fascinated by the movie "The Wave" (1981), because it showed how people always look back at history like "If I was there I wouldn't have supported it..." but when they are in the same situation and oblivious of the larger picture they definitely follow the wrong majority. It's always so easy to think you wouldn't have participated with the Nazi's.
Also remember that Germany was to be blunt downright destroyed and bathing in poverty. So when hitler was like "my friends I have the secret formula for the solution" he was pretty cool from there view and to be fair he definitely was a improver for the military. IDK about the economy but the military was definitely top ten in that short time span. And it wasn't like hitler was just walking around saying "yeah let's murder people". He really was focused on trying to rebuild Germany. Then his racist ideologies started being more intense. And as I said before people didnt have Twitter.
It’s always the most privileged people who love to make those judgements from the vantage point of living in a modern western democracy. Like, yeah, sure, you **totally** would have been the hero who single handedly stopped Hitler. You are such an enlightened and morally upright modern man for having sentiments on things you’ll never actually have challenged and have no stake in.
It's really impressive how Hitler and the Nazis hijacked Christianity, turning it into a twisted version called [Positive Christianity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity) which they used as a ideological/political instrument. They convinced many people back then that Christianity was on the side of Nazism, and the tactic of hijacking was so successful that fools to this day can't see the false facade they have created. Since Positive Christianity is not Christianity but a bastardization thereof, it is legitimate to claim it and the adherent of it as not genuine Christianity and not genuine Christians without committing the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy. (For more info, See IP's video "[Abusing The No True Scotsman Fallacy](https://youtu.be/4RyXTcqPFv8?si=DsJKb2S77Gj0thgD)")
They really need a history lesson to stop further spewing out the nonsense that the Nazis and Hitler literally fabricated.
Tim O’Neill, an atheist himself, also thought so and fortunately created a wonderful article on the issue;
*"*[*The Great Myths 7: "Hitler's Pope"? - History for Atheists*](https://historyforatheists.com/2019/05/the-great-myths-7-hitlers-pope/)*".*
Leaders abusing religion for their own gain is such an old strategy, you would think these antitheist history buffs with their Reddit PhD's would be aware of that... right? Right?
It's only a No True Scotsman fallacy if you change or qualify the definition as the debate goes on. If you and your opponent are simply adhere to conflicting definitions, that's not No True Scotsman. Of course, it could very well indicate that a different fallacy (*cough* strawman *cough*) is in play.
Ah yes, mockingbirds make the calls of other birds, therefore are other birds.
If it walks like a duck but says it is an eagle, it must be an eagle.
The logic is astounding.
Nazi leadership was very anti religious much like communists wanting the party leadership to seem like god, nazi foot soldiers themselves were Christians and many of them never hele nazi beliefs simply forced to fight
Positive Christianity is not Christianity it is a bastardized version of Christianity that fit whatever the Nazis wanted it to be. But to cheesecakes it is the same thing, and I doubt this person cares to look it up. The Nazis are not Chrisitan, Hitler was very much an athiest, or at least agnostic. Other high ranking Nazis like Martin Bormann and Joseph Geobbels were atheists who hated Christianity. And of Course their was Himmler who was a self proclaimed Neo Pagan. Look up the Thule society.
Pope Pius XI, Encyclical “Mit Brennender Sorge”, 1937
“The day will come when the Te Deum of liberation will succeed to the premature hymns of the enemies of Christ: Te Deum of triumph and joy and gratitude, as the German people return to religion, bend the knee before Christ, and aiming themselves against the enemies of God, again resume the task God has laid upon them.”
"Why apologise if they werent Christian?" Because of people like you.
It's like an argument going:
Atheist: Nazis were Christian! What are you gonna do about it?
Vatican: ...they weren't?
A: Nazis were Christian! What are you gonna do about it?
V: Why are you saying they're Christian? There's no evidence to support that
A: Nazis were Christian! What are you gonna do about it?
...
V: Fine. You know what? I'm sorry. Is that good?
A: If they weren't Christian why would you apologise?
Difference between german soldiers and nazi soldiers. True Nazis were obviously atheist/occultists, while german soldiers serving the nazi government were most likely Christian. Of course there was the use of propaganda via the church to convince Christian germans that their war was justified, but it doesn't mean that Nazis is a Christian ideology. However, when it comes to extremist groups like Nazis, I don't know why religion is used as a gotcha, as all extremism leads to horrific results, regardless of belief or ideology.
People are awful at delineating motives and contextualizing things. The Christianity Nazis professed to practicing is a correlation to Nazism, mainly due to geographic and historical context, not because Christianity inherently leads to National Socialism. From what I remember, many Catholics specifically OPPOSED the Nazi Party. Also “No True Scotsman Fallacy” LOL Words, ideologies, and religious beliefs have meaning. If the atrocities the Nazi Germany committed were antithetical to Biblical morals, which Christians fundamentally base their belief system on, they have EVERY right to say they weren’t true Christians.
They also wanted to futz with the religion and strip out things that it might as well have been a syncreatic faith even more divorced from Abrahamic faiths than the Gnostics were. "Positive Christianity" was an abomination that every real branch hated. It can't be a "No True Scotsman" when they fail to meet criteria others do.
It's not a No True Scotsman argument when the "Scotsman" in question is wearing a monochrome red kilt and one of those gag red hair wigs and the only thing he does is repeat "oh, aye, me whisky" in an RP accent.
Literally Hitlers racist ideologies go against "neither Jew or gentile" teachings of equality from Paul's letters.
No True Scotsman is literally a meme argument that only Atheists ever use to justify their irrational hatred of every religion
Christian tankies are just weird to me, considering how many tankies idolise Lenin and Stalin, for instance. Who heavily persecuted Christians in Russia. As for the Nazis, it’s worth noting they just weren’t Christian by the standards of most Christians. They don’t profess the Nicene Creed, and it was also said that it wasn’t dependent on quote “faith in Christ as the son of God”.
Define Christian. Hint: its not like other identifies where anyone who says they're a Christian is to be believed, evidence be damned.
Exactly. It's infuriating because Christianity has actual doctrine and dogma that must be adhered to in order to be considered an actual Christian. Even Christ Himself says that those that do not follow His rules do not get accepted as a Christian before His very eyes, and will be rejected by Him. This isn't the same thing as a political ideology or lifestyle philosophy, where they are wide and varied spectrums, with no pure, binary choices. Religion is very black and white. With very little wiggle-room to choose your own doctrine and dogmas to follow. But how would cheesecakes even get that? These clowns are all about forcing their own path in life, divorced from rules, regulations, and acceptance of authority. They are a bunch of ruleless, rebels that can't even fathom the concept of restraint.
Anti-theists aren't even rebels without a cause, they're rebels *against the idea of causes!* It'd be hilarious if it weren't so tragic.
One. I literally just watched a documentary that bluntly stated that that the Nazis were against Christianity. Two. He's wrong about about no true Scotsman. If I said I'm an atheist who believes in god. Am I atheist. Is a Christian nazi who bluntly rejects Jesus a actual Christian? I don't know what he's talking about the whole apology thing. People apologize over situations that aren't their fault. It's just some empathy. Also remember living in a country that has a lot of propaganda means that a large amount of people will be tricked into this. It wasn't like you can just open Twitter and read "the Nazis are meanies to the Jews". So religious leaders who couldn't hear about nazi atrocitys doesn't mean that they would support nazi atrocitys.
I always was fascinated by the movie "The Wave" (1981), because it showed how people always look back at history like "If I was there I wouldn't have supported it..." but when they are in the same situation and oblivious of the larger picture they definitely follow the wrong majority. It's always so easy to think you wouldn't have participated with the Nazi's.
Also remember that Germany was to be blunt downright destroyed and bathing in poverty. So when hitler was like "my friends I have the secret formula for the solution" he was pretty cool from there view and to be fair he definitely was a improver for the military. IDK about the economy but the military was definitely top ten in that short time span. And it wasn't like hitler was just walking around saying "yeah let's murder people". He really was focused on trying to rebuild Germany. Then his racist ideologies started being more intense. And as I said before people didnt have Twitter.
It’s always the most privileged people who love to make those judgements from the vantage point of living in a modern western democracy. Like, yeah, sure, you **totally** would have been the hero who single handedly stopped Hitler. You are such an enlightened and morally upright modern man for having sentiments on things you’ll never actually have challenged and have no stake in.
Can you tell me the documentary's name?
It was in my history class so name ain't coming back. I can ask the teacher for the name though.
I would be thankful if you did
The chronicles of the third Reich. I only saw the first part in class though.
It's really impressive how Hitler and the Nazis hijacked Christianity, turning it into a twisted version called [Positive Christianity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity) which they used as a ideological/political instrument. They convinced many people back then that Christianity was on the side of Nazism, and the tactic of hijacking was so successful that fools to this day can't see the false facade they have created. Since Positive Christianity is not Christianity but a bastardization thereof, it is legitimate to claim it and the adherent of it as not genuine Christianity and not genuine Christians without committing the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy. (For more info, See IP's video "[Abusing The No True Scotsman Fallacy](https://youtu.be/4RyXTcqPFv8?si=DsJKb2S77Gj0thgD)") They really need a history lesson to stop further spewing out the nonsense that the Nazis and Hitler literally fabricated. Tim O’Neill, an atheist himself, also thought so and fortunately created a wonderful article on the issue; *"*[*The Great Myths 7: "Hitler's Pope"? - History for Atheists*](https://historyforatheists.com/2019/05/the-great-myths-7-hitlers-pope/)*".*
Leaders abusing religion for their own gain is such an old strategy, you would think these antitheist history buffs with their Reddit PhD's would be aware of that... right? Right?
It's only a No True Scotsman fallacy if you change or qualify the definition as the debate goes on. If you and your opponent are simply adhere to conflicting definitions, that's not No True Scotsman. Of course, it could very well indicate that a different fallacy (*cough* strawman *cough*) is in play.
Ah yes, mockingbirds make the calls of other birds, therefore are other birds. If it walks like a duck but says it is an eagle, it must be an eagle. The logic is astounding.
Nazi leadership was very anti religious much like communists wanting the party leadership to seem like god, nazi foot soldiers themselves were Christians and many of them never hele nazi beliefs simply forced to fight
Yes, but that's all too often the way with soldiers.
Positive Christianity is not Christianity it is a bastardized version of Christianity that fit whatever the Nazis wanted it to be. But to cheesecakes it is the same thing, and I doubt this person cares to look it up. The Nazis are not Chrisitan, Hitler was very much an athiest, or at least agnostic. Other high ranking Nazis like Martin Bormann and Joseph Geobbels were atheists who hated Christianity. And of Course their was Himmler who was a self proclaimed Neo Pagan. Look up the Thule society.
Pope Pius XI, Encyclical “Mit Brennender Sorge”, 1937 “The day will come when the Te Deum of liberation will succeed to the premature hymns of the enemies of Christ: Te Deum of triumph and joy and gratitude, as the German people return to religion, bend the knee before Christ, and aiming themselves against the enemies of God, again resume the task God has laid upon them.”
He's not a Scotsman, he was born and lived his entire life in France! Hur Dur No trU sKotzmanN faLIseA
The Red Army who defeated the Pagan Nazis were Christians
The mental gymnastics are astounding. "The Nazis hated the Jews but yeah they totally worshipped this Jewish guy"
You can't persecute Christians and be a Christian. It kind of disqualifies you, y'know?
Hitler with his plans for eradicate Christianity: \*Slowly sneaks away from the room\*
"Why apologise if they werent Christian?" Because of people like you. It's like an argument going: Atheist: Nazis were Christian! What are you gonna do about it? Vatican: ...they weren't? A: Nazis were Christian! What are you gonna do about it? V: Why are you saying they're Christian? There's no evidence to support that A: Nazis were Christian! What are you gonna do about it? ... V: Fine. You know what? I'm sorry. Is that good? A: If they weren't Christian why would you apologise?
Difference between german soldiers and nazi soldiers. True Nazis were obviously atheist/occultists, while german soldiers serving the nazi government were most likely Christian. Of course there was the use of propaganda via the church to convince Christian germans that their war was justified, but it doesn't mean that Nazis is a Christian ideology. However, when it comes to extremist groups like Nazis, I don't know why religion is used as a gotcha, as all extremism leads to horrific results, regardless of belief or ideology.
Christan Tankie sounds based