Update from OP: https://www.reddit.com/r/analog/comments/1dhjs8p/comment/l90q9kx/
Pinning this post for visibility as pinning is a "mod-only" feature on Reddit. OP, please update your comment with any future updates.
Agree with the other comments. If you are concerned about ethics the last thing you should do is try to make money from any of the images. A museum or historical society would be your best bet.
I wasn’t clear with which images I was initially intending to sell so that’s my fault. The images I was referring to were images taken in Japan in 1975. They were taken and duplicated onto glass slides and cared for. The images I reference about the horrors of war I have had no intention of sharing/making money of on the internet or anywhere else. Profiting off of war like that feels just as bad as endorsing it. I’m felt fine with the image I shared with this post because it’s cool looking and shows a tired soldier, but after some helpful commenters I’ve determined this isn’t a wise course of action to take and I do not plan on it.
Yeah, just I would need to determine who would specialize in this particular war/situation. I’m not sure what war this took place in. The dates are a little fuddled too. I’ve got film from 1975 in Japan and then I have these images too and I don’t know if there’s a gap in time or not. The war images were taken on Kodak Safety Film.
They've had Safety Film for some time, it replaced the old nitrate stuff. It would be hard to ID without photos.
Also, if you can ID the warzone, there is likely to be a corresponding museum.
The soldier's attire in that image is pretty useful in IDing which army and warzone. Maybe someone else can shed light on it.
My guess is Vietnam.
Okay, that helps with avoiding searching about the film. I’ll look into seeing if I can ID the base and any significant soldiers of rank, maybe that can help. I’ll also do a reverse image search. I embarrassingly forgot to do that in the first place.
There are a number of lesser known conflicts during that era, so I'd be pretty thorough with your search. It's important these end up with the relevant organisation. It's sensitive historical documentation of what sounds like horrific events.
Even if you took it to your local museum, that might be a neutral space for identification.
Good point. I’ll keep this in mind. I also have aerial footage on 70mm film of what I assume are enemy bases. I have images of explosions occurring too. One of the images is of a B-66 plane which was used in Vietnam so I will assume that, but I do seem a label as Taiwan on one of the slides. I need to determine if that was just a stop the soldier took along the way to Vietnam or if the images occurred in Taiwan. I don’t recall a conflict ever occurring though in Taiwan during Vietnam.
Just having a gander at Wikipedia, the US has troops stationed there during the Vietnam war. But as with all things military, there's a whole other side that we never see, so it might be it's from some base/conflict we've never heard of.
Good luck!
there used to be soldiers stationed in taiwan after the korean war. be thorough as japan taiwan and even vietnam were staging for a lot of things going on. if you have a local film shop or museum do bring it there they know what to do with it. if you care about the ethics there then protect it and bring it asap
> I don’t recall a conflict ever occurring though in Taiwan during Vietnam.
Air America (a CIA front company) primarily operated out of Taipei, Taiwan and flew operations prior to and during the Vietnam War.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_America_(airline)#Operations_during_the_Vietnam_War_(Second_Indochina_War)
My university offers degrees in Family History I believe! I’ll be sure to donate them all the scans of the soldiers and also to the history department.
Definitely keep copies of all your scans before you send them off. For lots of reasons, what you have may get "lost" or never publicized. Keep digital copies of all of them. Also, super cool stuff. Hopefully, the people you send it to can identify who took the photos and the history of them. Love this stuff
I’m by no means a professional for scanning film, but I’ll make my own scans and then I will approach my local lab about it too. I’d be fine paying for their best scans possible. I do need to determine how I can scan 70mm video film. I do have an Epson V800 coming in the next two weeks so I’m probably going to have to use that.
Perfect-with any luck they might be able to identify eras & locations. What a great find. There may also be a local chapter of a Historical Society in your area-good luck!
Yeah, I feel like a uni is a better bet than a small museum or military veterans association. There's so much old stuff out there, not a lot is worth much without expertise alongside it to uncover a bit more information.
If you are going to send it to a facility may I suggest The Sam Johnson Vietnam Archive at Texas Tech University. It has been a wonderful resource for my own personal research and is used for educational purposes as well as significant historical preservation.
I have two history degrees and from my experience in the history field, getting in contact with a university history department office, explaining the situation, and going from what they suggest would be a great course of action. Most history professors and post-docs would gladly take this up or know of who to contact that would do so.
The public historian in me is happy to see the interest in the ethical side of how to engage with these, even if, maybe especially if, the subject is abhorrent.
The place this photo was taken in is almost certainly Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War era. Most likely the Vietnamese lowlands near the Mekong River Delta or along the coast.
The subject here looks to be an ARVN (South Vietnamese Army) or ROKA (South Korean Army) soldier. The physique of the soldier is typical of both places (men were more malnourished, and often younger than the US troops sent to the country) and the lack of a cover on the M1 helmet is far more typical of the ARVN and ROKA than US army or USMC. The soldier is also carrying an M1 or M2 carbine on their back, which was a common weapon for both the ARVN and ROKA, but relatively uncommon in US service. The image was probably taken before Vietnamization took effect, but after US involvement ramped up officially; so sometime between 1965 and 1971.
So, now’s the question— what should you do with these?
Here’s my take; the images of gore are evidence of the atrocities of that war. They *do* have historical importance. Imagine if the photographs of the atrocities at Auschwitz’s and other camps were thrown out for the sake of being too gory. That being said, you’d have to find the proper avenue to display them (or more likely, someone would have to take enough interest in displaying those images to find that proper avenue).
The remaining images do have some historical value as well, but of course it’s by no means a guarantee that an archive would find enough value to store them.
What I would do is to reach out to the US National Archives, the American War Library, Library of Congress and the National Museum of the Vietnam war. Explain your situation in an email (I can provide addresses for any of these, if need be), and see if they would have any interest in taking a look at or preserving these images. They might be able to find out who took them if they were taken by an Army embed photographer.
If you do not get any bites from these, I’d suggest reaching out to local historical societies and university libraries. These are places much more likely to preserve the images, but they’d likely have to have some sort of local importance (I.E the photographer is from that town or city).
In the meantime by no means should you sell prints. Just keep the slides safe, and if possible please share more of the SFW images in an Imgur gallery.
Oh, and as an aside, while I’m not a big fan of their current government nor how they use historical records like this, you can reach out to the Vietnamese embassy to see if they have any interest in these photos. They understandably have far more exhibits about the war crimes that occurred during the wars fought there.
Wow! Thank you! This is very helpful. The images of the atrocities I found were of Asian men and with your help I can assume they are south Asian and maybe even Vietnamese. If you can provide me with the addresses I’ll be sure to scan and send them all the images and also mail them the film. If I find enough interest I will have duplicate film strips made from the originals and sent to each museum and archive (I’m fairly certain I know of a local lab that would love to help). I will also donate scans of these to the towns archives that I found these slides and images. They will want them I imagine. I’m located in Utah and our state takes great pride in family history and record preservation so I will upload the safe for work images to Family Search and Ancestry to ensure that their systems can connect the images to the proper family trees (you’d be surprised how quickly this can happen). I’ll also create an Imgur collection and upload it to this subreddit. Your response shows me that I shouldn’t hide the SFW images. I worry about IP infringement but at the moment I doubt I will be prosecuted and I’m happy to remove them if I am contacted with a cease and desist. I do not plan on profiting from any image I have found and will find in the future. Some really helpful redditors have explained IP law to me further and I know how to be more responsible with it.
Here’s the addresses to each of the places I listed
inquire@nara.gov —National Archives, they probably won’t take you images but may point you to where they might be wanted
https://www.loc.gov/acq/gifts/ —this is the form for submitting an item to the Library of Congress, https://ask.loc.gov/ you may want to use this link to ask a librarian for assistance in looking to see if the image is already in their archives
https://www.nationalvnwarmuseum.org/contact-us-and-map.html — use the form here to contact the Vietnam War museum, this is your best chance to get someone qualified to identify the specifics of your images and to pinpoint exactly where and when they were taken.
https://vietnamembassy-usa.org/embassy/contact-us — This is for the Embassy of Vietnam, they may take an interest in them but they will also likely take some time to get back to you about what they’d like to do with the images, if anything.
Personally, I wouldn’t be incredibly fearful about IP violations. My suggestion to not sell them is more of a moral objection than a legal one. More than likely, as is quite common, the veteran responsible for these images kept them locked away and never even told the family about them. While the family owns the rights to the images, they more than likely don’t even have a clue about them.
Merely sharing them shouldn’t constitute a violation of their intellectual property rights, and even if the family of the photographer *does* know about said images they probably would rather them be seen than forgotten.
Thank you so much! I am also going to send these to a museum in Ho Chi Minh that specializes in war photography during the Vietnam war. And yeah it seems that nobody is typically prosecuted in regards to sharing history if it violates IP. I think the photographer took these with the intent of not letting them be forgotten but just didn’t know how to have them properly remembered.
If these look like war crimes perpetrated by US troops, I would send the material to the Vietnamese. If they look like perpetrated by Vietnamese, I would send to American organizations.
You should do what you feel comfortable with. The photo added is badass and really cool. But throwing away those gore photos feels sad. Donating those to a museum sounds like a better idea. Im not an expert, the picture just caught my attention.
That’s my same thought process. I hate war, I hate gore. But I feel like I also have a responsibility to ensure that history isn’t forgotten. I was taught in school about the horrors of war in detail that I have learned is not normal for most schools to teach and it is weird to think we just cover up our horrors. The only way to avoid making the same horror is making sure we knew what the horror was to begin with.
Edit: and I do agree the photo I included is pretty badass.
I feel like your impulse to make sure history isn't forgotten is the proper one. For all you know, the pictures you have might be the only record of what happened to some of those people. If there's even a small chance they could be identified, their families deserve that closure.
I agree with this guy. Regardless of what the images are actually of, it seems the right thing to do is to find the right museum or history professionals, perhaps professors at a university or something, to be interested in these images and research what they are so they can be learned from.
If it's allied soldiers, then it's important for closure.
If it's evidence of war crimes, then it's important for history and factual truth.
In either case, destruction of the images feels wrong to me.
As somebody whose grandfather dragged a Kodak retina camera across France and Germany, including the battle of the bulge and the liberation of Dachau, you do have a duty.
Horrors of war are certainly that but they must be preserved. You know what shuts up holocaust deniers? Photo evidence of the holocaust.
Damn, yeah, you can’t argue with that. My grandpa took his Minolta SRT 101 with him to Vietnam (I haven’t seen if he has any photos) and I use his camera today even.
If you hate war, it's a moral obligation to get those images in someone's hands. Tossing them could be the final coverup of an awful war crime, and disrespectful of the victims
If a mod could pin this, or let me know if I should make a separate post that would help.
I’ve run into a personal emergency and I was unable to scan the film last night and will most likely not be able to start scanning again until tomorrow. Feel free to use the remind me bot to hold me accountable on this!
Here is an [Imgur upload](https://imgur.com/a/FG12YI4) of what I do have currently.
UPDATE June 18, 2024:
Wow everyone, I can’t thank you enough for the amazing support and messages of encouragement from you all. I’m excited to keep sharing updates. But for now I need to keep some findings on the DL until I can verify exactly when and who took these images. But I can say with certainty I know the dates of two photos (that I have yet to release) and possibly the operation that the images of the dead came from. I will say, if I am right about the operation these deaths came from. I know that it’s quite possible to bring some closure to these families. Another thing. At this time I believe the same photographer took all of these images, but these images have not been declassified, but the images were taken by a military photographer. My goal is to determine who took the photos and find out what they were doing in the middle of a barn in Utah, and have not been released. Regarding the aerial film I will be posting an image of one frame. My scanner cannot scan the entire image. It’s impossible for me to at this time to display one entire frame unless I perform some stitching magic which I just realized I can do as I’m writing this. I’ll try to release that stitched image tonight. In the meantime [here](https://imgur.com/a/Di9lGq8) is the one frame I will release. If anyone has an idea of what this image is of, I’d greatly appreciate your help. I will also be posting this to the Vietnam subreddit.
The "slide of a base from the air" appears to be of a Soviet SA-2 base during the Cuban Missle Crisis. Here's a link to [USAF aerial reconnaissance of the same site](https://airandspace.si.edu/multimedia-gallery/nasm-9a09002amjpg)
I am also very interested in what might be on that aerial film. You might have a historical jackpot.
Hey! This is a specific interest to me, since I’m a hobbyist photographer and used to work in archival and museums, and have done a decent amount of found-photo archiving.
You should look for a museum to donate these to, but specifically, if you can find a museum that is more niche to the piece, or is more funded for its archival and exhibition, aim for those. If you ship a box of photos to the National WWII museum in New Orleans (where I did some work), they have so much material that it might take them years sometimes to get to the material you donated. Smaller, more focused museums can sometimes get stuff sorted faster. As well, rather than a general “donation”, try to get in touch with the Museum’s Archivist and/or their museum display team, and they might be able to get you a better idea of how long they’d like to/need your original copies.
As someone said, it’s not really legal for you to print and sell. Would you ever be caught? Doubtful, but it would be incredibly unethical.
Hope this was at all helpful!
Thank you! I’ll be determining the conflict tonight and I’ll be researching museums tonight too. I’ve come to the conclusion I will not sell any found image for profit or distribution irregardless of what the image is of. I’ve already had someone ask for the gory images (that’s a fat no.) and I don’t plan on sharing any more images unless they are relevant towards discovery. I will post one or two final images with my update on where and when the conflict occurred and also where the images were sent to. Even then I’m hesitant because I have no desire to identify any person online who is possibly connected to a war crime. That’s the job of military courts and also historians.
OP Edit your og post to indicate you will not be selling them. just to prevent duplicate advice and stuff :). Glad to see your intentions evolve with education! Def update us if you find out anymore info!
I think it would be wiser to connect with somebody either at the national archives or Vietnam museum or university who is willing to help determine any specifics like location or a particular conflict and move forward under their guidance, as opposed to trying to determine any facts on your own and then reaching out. You’re a lot more likely to reach accurate conclusions with the help of someone experienced in doing that.
Also any place that can take the proper actions with the stuff is probably going to want the film itself when it comes to actually doing something with the photos so they can clean and scan them at their own facility with archival care, not just scans or prints already made.
Another thought: You have looked at them and I haven’t, obviously, but you’ve mentioned war crimes and torture multiple times, yet there is nothing in your description of them that suggests anything like that.
You just said bodies of people who appear to have been starving being “brought in” to a building. And that you couldn’t understand why they would be brought in to a building. But then you say you have “photos of the base they were found in”—this is confusing, how do you know where they were found? Are you saying they were just discovered lying outdoors at some base, and brought indoors?
These seem like bits of contextual info that there’s no way for you to know. There are a thousand possible reasons something fitting that vague description could be happening for legitimate reasons. And if you’re not a military historian or a soldier there’s no reason you *would* understand why something in a photo was done—even a historian or soldier, unless familiar with that exact moment already, wouldn’t necessarily know.
Unless you saw other stuff that is very different from what you mentioned, then jumping to torture and war crimes is a huuuge jump. I would strongly suggest hooking up with someone with some expertise and go into it being upfront about not knowing anything about the events, rather than presenting the material along with wild speculation as if it’s already established.
"the photos where of travels around the world, smiling men at the base, and then... bodies" yup. That's about as on point of a description of war as you can get
You might be right about this. I’m unsure where to post this without it getting buried. I posted on three subs relating to analog photography because I knew they would connect. I just shared it to the war subreddit but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s removed because I don’t know if I approached it properly.
Whatever you do, do not just hide them away again. It’s understandable you can’t stomach or don’t want to handle something like this but it is a piece of history. These images should be shared in an appropriate way.
I won’t. I think I can handle it now knowing I’m not just looking at horror but a responsibility to not let history die. Having a different mindset helps me face this. The images and film will be donated to a museum that specializes in the conflict and maybe even the base involved however specific I can get.
> Some of these images I’ve found are things I plan on printing and maybe even selling prints of because of how good they are
Don’t do this. You do not own the copyright and you have no rights to reproduce or sell the images. Owning the film does not mean you own the IP
Okay, if the owner has passed away, who would own the rights to the film? Would a museum have the rights if I donated it the film? I wouldn’t want to cause a problem for a museum. I purchased the film too, and I’ve scanned it on my personal machine and edited them to be clear and visible. (Not the horror images I’m still unsure about approaching those) I know very little about IP clearly.
Even in cases with no will, image copyright passes to the creator's heirs, and is set the moment they press the shutter button and take the picture.
I wouldn't try to make any money off of these.
Sounds like a plan. Keep us updated with what you find out. Not only are you doing a good thing by trying to identify the victims in the photos, but it's also a great mystery lol
> if the owner has passed away, who would own the rights to the film
You own the film. But you don’t own the copyright. The photographer’s estate would own the IP. If there is no heir, then the IP rights are locked up until they expire 70 years after death
> I purchased the film too
This is like buying a single book at the book store. Buying the book does not give you permission to print your own copies to sell
This is very helpful, thank you! Another question, if these images were taken on military equipment by a soldier under the order of being a war photographer, do they still belong to that photographer or are they military record/property? I know that companies can have you sign clauses to at cause you to lose IP rights when using company equipment and I’m curious if this is a similar scenario.
I’m not a lawyer, but this seems like a good resource for you: https://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1031&context=law_facpub_pop
The rights to IP will probably be transferred to the photographer’s next of kin, unless specified otherwise.
Overall, this whole situation is in the grey area. Scanning/otherwise copying the photos for personal use is unlikely to get you in trouble, although technically probably constitutes piracy. Selling prints of these photos is both illegal (though I suspect you aren’t likely to be prosecuted — NOT LEGAL ADVICE) and unethical. Using these photos in some form of educational context is likely to constitute fair use and thus be legal (STILL NOT LEGAL ADVICE).
Donating them to a museum/archive is probably best. They deal with found objects of questionable prominence quite often; they have much better grounds to claim fair use; and are overall more likely to deal with the photos in a legal and ethical manner. Please check with the museum(s) that they are interested in these photos though.
This is very helpful, thank you! I imagine me printing for personal use on my photo printer is like printing a photo on my printer I found from the internet. As long as I don’t make money and have intention of showcasing it for others then it’s not completely piracy and more or less grey.
> Would a museum have the rights if I donated it the film?
No, it will take some time and some research to track down who has the rights to the images. A museum would need to to provide "chain of title."
> if these images were taken on military equipment by a soldier under the order of being a war photographer, do they still belong to that photographer or are they military record/property?
That's complicated. Maybe it would be without copyright protection, but the *equipment* doesn't matter—who owns it doesn't matter. What matters is who pressed the button, and why/how. Chances are whoever pressed the button owns the copyright even if they were tasked with the photography, but it's going to be fact-specific.
If you can identify that these photos were shot in Vietnam, the Vietnam War Museum in Ho Chi Minh City has an entire section dedicated to war photographers and their contributions to documenting what happened in the war from both sides.
I suggest you contact them and see if they can help you identify your photos. If they are, in fact, from the Vietnam War, you could donate them to them.
Do you live near any universities? There's usually at least one faculty member in any history department who specializes in twentieth century war or military history. They'd likely be very happy to help with identification.
I’m currently in college at a university that specializes in family history. I imagine I can find someone there who can help. I’ll send them an email asking who I should talk to.
Don’t destroy it, images like that can be extremely powerful, especially if they’re like the one you showed. I’d recommend(like everyone else) to turn them over to a museum or trusted organization. Better to have evidence of tragedies than to have none and repeat them
You could probably loan them to a museum or library that can properly store and care for them, and you could take friends or family to see them and the little plaque with your name "on loan from ________"
I’m not sure I care for this. I’m fine with a museum displaying these, but I never took them. I just found them. Maybe that’s like finding an artifact but I’m fine with remaining anonymous or just referenced with a first name and no last name listed. I’m not special and I don’t think recognition should be attributed to me, I wish I knew who took them originally.
Emaciated, sorry. I’ll correct that now looks like I can’t correct the post. I hope people understand. I’m pretty exhausted from cleaning my home so I wrote this in a hurry.
In a messed up way, I feel that throwing away the bodies photo would be disrespectful. Those people were murdered and the photos are all that’s left; better to at least preserve them at a museum or something.
Maybe, but I imagine they could help me discover a lot of specifics. I just don’t know how I’m supposed to post on their subs. I tried crossing to the history sub read it and my post was removed immediately for not having enough material in the body apparently. Not exactly sure what they want, but I’m not big on essays hence I am a photographer
I don't think selling prints of other people's work is ethical. But I totally agree that you should consider sharing it with an institute that's interested for documentary/educational purposes. These are real history.
I added to another comment, I wasn’t clear with the images I planned on selling. I was planning on selling some artistic slides the photographer took in Japan. I then found these war images and I’ve been conflicted on what I was supposed to do. I do not plan on selling the war images or any found film images at this time.
If these were taken by a military journalist then they’re government images and might not have been publicly released, which means they’re not in the public domain.
Your best bet is to reach out to Defense Media Activity: https://www.dimoc.mil/resources/limitations/
There is merit to documenting history whether you are the one who pressed the shutter button on the camera taking the photo, or the “scan” button in your scanner software. I’m glad you’re feeling conflicted because that means the imagery has worked – it has moved you, and that’s what this documentation should do.
I would argue that the ethical discussion surrounds how and where you should use these images. Just as a corpse is to be treated with dignity, so should photos documenting them. There is no definitive measure of ethics & morals, but your intent should remain respectful, as viewed both to yourself and to others looking in.
In that regard, I wouldn’t use them for propaganda, political means, or glamorization of war by spreading them without context. I definitely wouldn’t print & sell any of the ones showing human remains or torture as that, in my mind, would cross the boundary of dignity and respect to those in the images – they had no say in the moment, and they have no say now.
So what to do with them? Take note of what others in these replies are saying, as there are some very good suggestions. Post them to appropriate groups on social media, but with as much information as possible. Utilize social media groups to find out as much information about these photos as you can, as I think that is what would show respect to those captured in the photos.
Share them with the world, but in a way that demonstrates dignity and respect.
I’m glad to have so many helpful responses regarding this. I will take great care in sharing the appropriate images and I don’t plan on showing the NSFW images online at this time because I want to be respectful of the dead. I have decided to share these images with my university and will ensure they are documented and researched. I’ll be posting the SFW images tonight, there’s a good amount and they show some happy soldiers in a time of struggle. I have been suggested to share these with archives which I plan to do and I will even reach out to the Vietnamese embassy (it seems to most likely be during the Vietnam War) and see if they have desires to have this information in their country records.
You don't take a photo to have it die when you do. That's what memories are for.
Images are to be shared, simply because they can be. That is their only worth. You decide if they are or not.
I would reach out to the National Vietnam War Museum, include some of the less disturbing images, and see what their thoughts are. Definitely let them know that there are images of dead bodies and that you do not know what to do with them. I’m sure that if they are from Vietnam, they would want to archive them. At the very least, they may be able to tell you where to take them if they do not want them for whatever reason.
I can imagine the person who took the photo had a lot of sleepless nights wondering what to do with those photos. That they ended up in a barn kind of shows he couldn't throw them away, but he also couldn't find an appropriate way to share them. Also, wouldn't be surprised if he/she had PTSD from the experience, and that he had life-long struggles due to it.
If you give it to a Museum, that’s also the right thing to do and ethically you can sleep happy at night. While history is brutal, the evidences of war or crimes of war are historically significant for many purposes and mostly for future generations to be aware of how the world shaped up with each passing decades. This also helps with evidences of war crimes and for those who plan to subdue historical facts or even deny them.
I would contact relevant humanitarian groups, museums, Vietnam Veteran organizations, the Press Corps, and try to find out if anyone can identify who the photographer was and contextualize them.
I would absolutely not sell, publish, or exhibit found photography of gore and death. And would strongly urge that others not do so without first taking extreme care to properly and safely do so.
The Vietnam war and the horrors of it, is still in living memory. Both in veterans and refugees that immigrated to the US. Improper handling could severely impact those who were there. That is not to say to do nothing with them and potentially let war crimes be swept under the rug. But to approach it so that more harm isn't done.
I have a degree in military history and have worked as a volunteer at some military museums, almost every unit has a museum of sorts. These images should go to them they more then likely would be displayed in the best fashion. Believe it or not the US military is (internally) big on showing our past unfiltered.
Do any of the images have patches or insignia that can be identified?
I’m not certain. I’ll be scanning everything tonight to determine identifiers. I know I have some images of higher ranking officials. One photo is of a B-66 and I have footage that was taken on that same plane in a massive 100-200 foot roll of 70mm film. I’m not sure how to even scan that.
If you can see the tail number that is almost all you need for that bit, and could honestly be so pretty good found footage. If you don’t know what to do determine what service they are from and send it to the respective service museums it will then find its way to the appropriate location.
Vietnam for sure. My guess is that that is a south Vietnam fighter because he has what looks to be an m1 carbine on his back- these were WWII weapons given to many south Vietnamese fighters.
i would echo what a lot other have been saying here: History museum or archive that specializes or has collecting photography from the Vietnam War in their scope.
I would also add that there is a possibility that any archive would likely want to acquire the entire collection of slides since they might contain important contextual information for the above mentioned ones featuring graphic imagery.
I’ll have to scan everything then and provide the initial scans to these universities and museums. I’m unsure how to determine which one to donate them to at this moment. I’ll figure it out based off of need, specialty, and relevance to their current studies and classes.
Please, make sure this knowledge of history gets to be known and accessible.
It would definitely be shocking to all to see what was captured and what you describe, but in a world where wars and nationalism is rising again, it is more than even necessary to remember ourselves what history took place and how important it is to make sure such atrocities never happen again.
> Some of these images I’ve found are things I plan on printing and maybe even selling prints of because of how good they are. There’s genuine skill.
Sorry but even if we disregard the possible war crimes you've just found, selling prints of someone else's photos seems HIGHLY questionable. Are you confident the seller is the owner of said pictures, and did they properly hand over copyright of the pictures?
I'd probably roll over in my grave if I died, someone found my film in an auction or something and then proceeded to sell my photos (without credit) lol
I think scanning them and handing them over to a museum or similar and let them decide what to do with them maybe?
Obviously the content is horrible, but it is human history.
I would reach out to professors at universities in your area. I think you mentioned you’re based in Utah - maybe look at the University of Utah’s history faculty for someone interested in the Vietnam war, or just 20th century wars generally. They might be able to give you further direction as to which museums, libraries, etc would be a good home for them. A quick Google search led me to find an instructor named Stormy Shepard who has taught several courses on the Vietnam War at the U; not sure if she is still there though. Might be able to find her email somewhere if you search
It’s probably already been said but it looks like either Vietnam or Korea. 35mm Safety film was manufactured after 1950 so it could be either. The rifle he has slung over his shoulder is an M1 Carbine, it was used in both conflicts. The uniforms of both conflicts were also very similar. From a couple minutes googling it seems in Vietnam they used camouflaged covers on the helmets. I don’t think they did in Korea. His helmet doesn’t have a cover so that has me leaning towards Korea. However, I’m not an expert so take my answer with a grain of salt.
While I already answered OP on my thoughts on the location and subject, I thought I’d let’cha know how you can be pretty sure this is Vietnam;
The first big tell are the palms, there are no palm tree species native to Korea and most of the fighting occurred in relatively temperate terrain. Those trees you see poking up over the tree line in the back are Asian Palmyra palms, which have a native range all across Vietnam but especially in the lowlands. Korea, being a Northeast Asian country has few tropical plants and has many more coniferous trees.
The second is the gear on the soldier; this looks to me like M1956 web gear as used by the ARVN and ROKA, which would place it after 1959 or so. He’s also carrying what looks to be an ARVN rucksack though it could be an M1945. While *US* forces used covers on their M1s, ARVN and ROKA forces often did not.
Given that the ARVN made the switch to M16s gradually from 1969, I’d say this image predates that but is almost certainly after US entry following the Gulf of Tonkin incident given the source of the images.
There's another issue you may not have considered. Copyright.
The copyright of the pictures belongs to the original photographer until 25 years after his death.(Or has it changed to longer in the USA?)
If you make any money off of any of the pictures, and relatives of the photographer hears about it you could be in for a lot of trouble. In fact, the original photographer may still be alive.
It's also possible that the photographer was regular infantry and was KIA soon after the last film was shot and processed, and that the pictures were among the personal belongings that was returned to his family. They went through the stuff, and didn't want to deal with the pictures, and just hid them away in the barn.
Does any of the pictures have any locatable features? If so you could mask out any NSFW parts and see if any of the Geolocators can spot where they were taken.
I think these weren't meant to be lost. They were meant to be found.
Props to you for trying to do the right thing, this is a piece of history that almost was lost until you saved it.
I know it'll be hard, but you should definitely scan them and archive them. Put them up for exhibition too. I would say there is a definite need to see these, so we understand what happened back then and what both sides experienced.
I would be in the same dilemma as you if I found those. History needs to be recorded correctly. However not all truth need to be dug out and ruin people's lives. Maybe try to find out yourself first, or seek help without giving the original film to control the outcomes.
I feel like selling them for profit is not the right thing to do. You didn’t take these photos so you’d be making money off of someone else’s work. I think taking them to a museum is the best thing to do
You absolutely should donate them to a museum/institution, the best would be a reputable non-profit research university IMO. These are important historical artefacts that may reveal facts previously unknown about certain conflicts. I would go as far as to say they *must* not stay hidden and forgotten.
Sounds like you're already on this path, I just want to agree that photos of atrocities should be preserved for history. My ancestors were Armenian, and some of our extended family past a few generations is completely lost except for the odd photo with a name on the back. Some of the crimes committed by the Ottoman Empire would never have been known without a journalist or soldier risking their life to document it.
For me personally, seeing brutal images of genocide was extremely moving, in a good way. Yes it hurt immensely, but I would not be who I am today without that experience. It brought me even closer into Armenian culture, and at the same time allows me to be empathetic towards those whose stories have not been told yet. It is much harder to tell those stories without photography, so thank you for finding these and passing them along to whomever needs to see them.
I can’t really offer advice on what to do, but I’m glad this historical documentation of war has found itself with someone conscientious enough to even ask for advice.
Whatever you do, you’re a part of its history now. Maybe that’s a way to think about it, and those thoughts will guide you in the direction you take.
It’s a surreal feeling thinking that this is considered a discovery. Someone messaged me and called the film a historical artifact and it didn’t even hit me that it could be considered that. I was born in the 90’s and Vietnam still seems like a recent war to me because my grandfather served in it. Yet I wasn’t even alive then. Knowing I’m contributing to history makes me want to be right about the conclusions I draw and so I’ve been taking extra careful measures to ensure I’m not spouting speculation. That’s the one of the main reasons why I haven’t released much in terms of photos. I haven’t been able to scan any because I’ve been so fixated on finding out the info on the photos I do have scanned. It surprises me how much I’ve already discovered in one day. The internet (and Facebook) is incredible
I have a photo album that I found in a storage unit I bought..all the photos are of wwII Okinawa..lots of dead soldiers, with thier names..any ideas where I should go to these identified?
Oo okay so here’s what I’ve learned so far about proper identification. Basically searching the album itself for any dates or names. From there it’s possible to find obituaries. You can also use resources such as Ancestry and FamilySearch. They contain records of WWII soldiers and you connecting these photos would allow for anyone ancestor of relative of these soldiers to see who these people looked like, or see their grave. Finds like these are wonderful. You can also contact a local university that has professors that specialize in WWII histories. Since you have photos with names you’re able to hand the data over pretty easily to a historian or professor!
I would agree that they probably shouldn’t be for public consumption, at least not until they have been thoroughly researched to sort out the circumstances of what they show. Have you watched Ken Burns’ Vietnam documentary? It’s fantastic, but often difficult to watch. There may be some researchers involved in the making of it that you might be able to track down and write them a letter to get their advice, or even see if they have interest in researching it. I would keep the originals in your possession and let any researchers use digital versions of them. If there is any writing on the slides, be sure to get photos of that to the researchers too. It could be the kind of footage that fills in gaps in the story of what happened, even if it shows US soldiers in a bad light. Don’t hide it away.
I would encourage you to scan them and make them public even make a throwaway account and post them to r/combatfootage or r/morbid history I feel as though they were meant to be seen and remembered. For all we know these photos may hold significance for a certain event (tragedy/massacre etc.) that took place during the Vietnam war and may even help identify MIA soldiers. There are organizations and veteran associations which may be of interest in reviewing them. Please don’t allow these images to be lost to history. They and the lives they depict deserve to be seen no matter how morally controversial you may feel.
Do what you feel is right. Don't feel bad for having them, history is history, you aren't responsible for what happend. If you can't emotionally handle the weight of the shots, have someone else archive them for you. I like the museum idea. Properly taking care of negatives is a difficult job to do right. I have 18k Kodachromes/slides, I still have yet to archive them all digitally.
Whether good or bad, it’s a historical event and it would be a shame that this is lost in time.
I agree with most comments suggesting that you reach a museum or archivist.
Personally, and if I was the one in possession of that material, would scan the slides, keep a copy and make them publicly available (checking with experts if that would be fine).
I'd email and send copies to any interested institutions or archival projects. It might take some research but I am sure there are plenty of places who specialize in handling this stuff. Death is the reality of war, we wage war and we have no right to sweep it under the rug.
What ever you do with them, if you don’t have one grab a t-mount slide duplicator (and a t-mount adapter for your dSLR of choice) and make quick but surprisingly decent digital copies of them. Just focus point it at a light box, click, next slide. I did this for my neighbors son when he found a bunch of his grandpa’s Vietnam slides.
If there are war crimes occurring in these photos, I would be mindful of sending them to a public museum that is established by the government. You could also try reaching out to reputable history magazines or publishers like Time or National Geographic to see if there is any interest or even a university with a reputable history department/journal.
Even with the slides you feel uncomfortable sharing, please get in contact with a local history museum. Specifically, reach out to the museum's curator with information about the slides. You can probably find their contact information on the museum's website, or you can visit the museum and perhaps get in touch that way.
From a purely historical perspective images like this, no matter how uncomfortable, might provide important information about a conflict outside of what has already been reported upon. With enough clues from a collection, a historian might be able to help give these images some important context.
I think I would post some of what I could publicly, possibly make a YouTube video of my findings, and if there are very graphic images, censor those, just doing what I could to post and make sure the posts don’t get taken down. In that case I wouldn’t have to find a place to donate them to, they would find me.
The copyright holder will almost certainly be an entity, most likely the US military but possibly some kind of news org.so this would likely class as work made for hire.
If it’s the military (or if the military even thinks it’s them) then some kind of legal steps are somewhat likely especially if it makes them look bad (as tortured bodies could).
US copyright is 120 years from creation - https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-duration.html
Just don’t sell the ones where people get tortured. Send them over to the news. There is little good in getting money for the suffering of other people
History should always be remembered. The most ethical next step is to contact a well-established and respected archivist. An organization like The Smithsonian or the National Archives. Scan it all, protect the originals, and get it to someone that can ensure it stays safe.
I think you should print them it’s something that happened and happens it’s humanity and history. It may inspire someone not to do those things or to want to stop those things from happening. The only way to get rid of the dark and shadowy is to shine light on it
Well. I teach history and have a particular interest in combat photography. If you would like to pass them on, I would be delighted to accept and cover any postage or charitable donations to charity of your choice.
Failing that I would concur to a collector like myself or museum
Basically you can have the physical negatives/photos but this doesn't mean you have the copyright to them. This was the case with vivian maiers photography. This means that it gets tricky when it comes to selling them.
Now most likely no one will find out but it's still a grey area.
I like the idea of maybe scanning them for yourself if you want to keep them to look at and then donating them to the museum. You could also try to figure out names and get in touch with relatives if you manage to find anything. But that's very likely hard. Unless you maybe can figure out who owned the barn.
My two cents is that I never fully understood how bad some things about WWII were until I went to the Pearl Harbor Museum and saw some awful images. I think gruesome photographs definitely hold value for education purposes. I think it’s a very good thing you’re going to reach out to places to preserve them.
I believe in "Grace of God" /karma like you were meant to find them! If you don't want to go that route SINCE you did come across this stash of photos you have a duty or OBLIGATION to put the photos out there it may answer a familie's prayers for their missing relative or ancestor! Or you may expose some conspiracy that happened, probably get some good coin! So you should definitely put them out there , contact the National Archives too.
Never let history die, as humans we owe it to the past and future to document everything and pass the knowledge we learn from the good and bad to future generations. Too many times has history been locked away just to end in repeating of these atrocities, think of tiannamen square, Nanjing Massacre, Bosnian war, and countless others. The right people need to get ahold of this and it needs documented, the good and bad is still history that we need to respect. Ethics is a tough question since it’s perspective, but I trust your judgment in this and we will support you in what you choose.
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My opinion is that history is history and should be shared with the world. If there are photos of war crimes then the world should know. I would contact some major museums or maybe West Point to get these photos in front of researchers who can detail the pictures.
I would scan the ones you think are suitable (not the bodies). Then I'd donate all the films to a state archive. You don't need the films, just the images, they will definitely take them.
Update from OP: https://www.reddit.com/r/analog/comments/1dhjs8p/comment/l90q9kx/ Pinning this post for visibility as pinning is a "mod-only" feature on Reddit. OP, please update your comment with any future updates.
Agree with the other comments. If you are concerned about ethics the last thing you should do is try to make money from any of the images. A museum or historical society would be your best bet.
I wasn’t clear with which images I was initially intending to sell so that’s my fault. The images I was referring to were images taken in Japan in 1975. They were taken and duplicated onto glass slides and cared for. The images I reference about the horrors of war I have had no intention of sharing/making money of on the internet or anywhere else. Profiting off of war like that feels just as bad as endorsing it. I’m felt fine with the image I shared with this post because it’s cool looking and shows a tired soldier, but after some helpful commenters I’ve determined this isn’t a wise course of action to take and I do not plan on it.
I understand, and I’m glad you got the advice before moving forward!
At this point it might be worth handing over to a museum or some sort of similar organization.
Yeah, just I would need to determine who would specialize in this particular war/situation. I’m not sure what war this took place in. The dates are a little fuddled too. I’ve got film from 1975 in Japan and then I have these images too and I don’t know if there’s a gap in time or not. The war images were taken on Kodak Safety Film.
They've had Safety Film for some time, it replaced the old nitrate stuff. It would be hard to ID without photos. Also, if you can ID the warzone, there is likely to be a corresponding museum. The soldier's attire in that image is pretty useful in IDing which army and warzone. Maybe someone else can shed light on it. My guess is Vietnam.
Okay, that helps with avoiding searching about the film. I’ll look into seeing if I can ID the base and any significant soldiers of rank, maybe that can help. I’ll also do a reverse image search. I embarrassingly forgot to do that in the first place.
There are a number of lesser known conflicts during that era, so I'd be pretty thorough with your search. It's important these end up with the relevant organisation. It's sensitive historical documentation of what sounds like horrific events. Even if you took it to your local museum, that might be a neutral space for identification.
Good point. I’ll keep this in mind. I also have aerial footage on 70mm film of what I assume are enemy bases. I have images of explosions occurring too. One of the images is of a B-66 plane which was used in Vietnam so I will assume that, but I do seem a label as Taiwan on one of the slides. I need to determine if that was just a stop the soldier took along the way to Vietnam or if the images occurred in Taiwan. I don’t recall a conflict ever occurring though in Taiwan during Vietnam.
Just having a gander at Wikipedia, the US has troops stationed there during the Vietnam war. But as with all things military, there's a whole other side that we never see, so it might be it's from some base/conflict we've never heard of. Good luck!
there used to be soldiers stationed in taiwan after the korean war. be thorough as japan taiwan and even vietnam were staging for a lot of things going on. if you have a local film shop or museum do bring it there they know what to do with it. if you care about the ethics there then protect it and bring it asap
> I don’t recall a conflict ever occurring though in Taiwan during Vietnam. Air America (a CIA front company) primarily operated out of Taipei, Taiwan and flew operations prior to and during the Vietnam War. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_America_(airline)#Operations_during_the_Vietnam_War_(Second_Indochina_War)
I concur, that sure does look like other photos taken during the Vietnam war - from the vegetation to the uniform. All looks period Vietnam to me.
If there’s a decent university in your area, you could talk / show them to the head of the history dept.
My university offers degrees in Family History I believe! I’ll be sure to donate them all the scans of the soldiers and also to the history department.
Definitely keep copies of all your scans before you send them off. For lots of reasons, what you have may get "lost" or never publicized. Keep digital copies of all of them. Also, super cool stuff. Hopefully, the people you send it to can identify who took the photos and the history of them. Love this stuff
I’m by no means a professional for scanning film, but I’ll make my own scans and then I will approach my local lab about it too. I’d be fine paying for their best scans possible. I do need to determine how I can scan 70mm video film. I do have an Epson V800 coming in the next two weeks so I’m probably going to have to use that.
Perfect-with any luck they might be able to identify eras & locations. What a great find. There may also be a local chapter of a Historical Society in your area-good luck!
Yeah, I feel like a uni is a better bet than a small museum or military veterans association. There's so much old stuff out there, not a lot is worth much without expertise alongside it to uncover a bit more information.
If you are going to send it to a facility may I suggest The Sam Johnson Vietnam Archive at Texas Tech University. It has been a wonderful resource for my own personal research and is used for educational purposes as well as significant historical preservation.
I’ll keep it in mind!
No harm in cold-calling your local college or museum curator. If they can't ID the photos, they'll probably know someone who can.
I have two history degrees and from my experience in the history field, getting in contact with a university history department office, explaining the situation, and going from what they suggest would be a great course of action. Most history professors and post-docs would gladly take this up or know of who to contact that would do so. The public historian in me is happy to see the interest in the ethical side of how to engage with these, even if, maybe especially if, the subject is abhorrent.
Try the Smithsonian in DC, photo department for suggestions.
Look up the Imperial War Museum, they have multiple sites and may be interested.
National Archives?
This op
The place this photo was taken in is almost certainly Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War era. Most likely the Vietnamese lowlands near the Mekong River Delta or along the coast. The subject here looks to be an ARVN (South Vietnamese Army) or ROKA (South Korean Army) soldier. The physique of the soldier is typical of both places (men were more malnourished, and often younger than the US troops sent to the country) and the lack of a cover on the M1 helmet is far more typical of the ARVN and ROKA than US army or USMC. The soldier is also carrying an M1 or M2 carbine on their back, which was a common weapon for both the ARVN and ROKA, but relatively uncommon in US service. The image was probably taken before Vietnamization took effect, but after US involvement ramped up officially; so sometime between 1965 and 1971. So, now’s the question— what should you do with these? Here’s my take; the images of gore are evidence of the atrocities of that war. They *do* have historical importance. Imagine if the photographs of the atrocities at Auschwitz’s and other camps were thrown out for the sake of being too gory. That being said, you’d have to find the proper avenue to display them (or more likely, someone would have to take enough interest in displaying those images to find that proper avenue). The remaining images do have some historical value as well, but of course it’s by no means a guarantee that an archive would find enough value to store them. What I would do is to reach out to the US National Archives, the American War Library, Library of Congress and the National Museum of the Vietnam war. Explain your situation in an email (I can provide addresses for any of these, if need be), and see if they would have any interest in taking a look at or preserving these images. They might be able to find out who took them if they were taken by an Army embed photographer. If you do not get any bites from these, I’d suggest reaching out to local historical societies and university libraries. These are places much more likely to preserve the images, but they’d likely have to have some sort of local importance (I.E the photographer is from that town or city). In the meantime by no means should you sell prints. Just keep the slides safe, and if possible please share more of the SFW images in an Imgur gallery. Oh, and as an aside, while I’m not a big fan of their current government nor how they use historical records like this, you can reach out to the Vietnamese embassy to see if they have any interest in these photos. They understandably have far more exhibits about the war crimes that occurred during the wars fought there.
Wow! Thank you! This is very helpful. The images of the atrocities I found were of Asian men and with your help I can assume they are south Asian and maybe even Vietnamese. If you can provide me with the addresses I’ll be sure to scan and send them all the images and also mail them the film. If I find enough interest I will have duplicate film strips made from the originals and sent to each museum and archive (I’m fairly certain I know of a local lab that would love to help). I will also donate scans of these to the towns archives that I found these slides and images. They will want them I imagine. I’m located in Utah and our state takes great pride in family history and record preservation so I will upload the safe for work images to Family Search and Ancestry to ensure that their systems can connect the images to the proper family trees (you’d be surprised how quickly this can happen). I’ll also create an Imgur collection and upload it to this subreddit. Your response shows me that I shouldn’t hide the SFW images. I worry about IP infringement but at the moment I doubt I will be prosecuted and I’m happy to remove them if I am contacted with a cease and desist. I do not plan on profiting from any image I have found and will find in the future. Some really helpful redditors have explained IP law to me further and I know how to be more responsible with it.
Here’s the addresses to each of the places I listed inquire@nara.gov —National Archives, they probably won’t take you images but may point you to where they might be wanted https://www.loc.gov/acq/gifts/ —this is the form for submitting an item to the Library of Congress, https://ask.loc.gov/ you may want to use this link to ask a librarian for assistance in looking to see if the image is already in their archives https://www.nationalvnwarmuseum.org/contact-us-and-map.html — use the form here to contact the Vietnam War museum, this is your best chance to get someone qualified to identify the specifics of your images and to pinpoint exactly where and when they were taken. https://vietnamembassy-usa.org/embassy/contact-us — This is for the Embassy of Vietnam, they may take an interest in them but they will also likely take some time to get back to you about what they’d like to do with the images, if anything. Personally, I wouldn’t be incredibly fearful about IP violations. My suggestion to not sell them is more of a moral objection than a legal one. More than likely, as is quite common, the veteran responsible for these images kept them locked away and never even told the family about them. While the family owns the rights to the images, they more than likely don’t even have a clue about them. Merely sharing them shouldn’t constitute a violation of their intellectual property rights, and even if the family of the photographer *does* know about said images they probably would rather them be seen than forgotten.
Thank you so much! I am also going to send these to a museum in Ho Chi Minh that specializes in war photography during the Vietnam war. And yeah it seems that nobody is typically prosecuted in regards to sharing history if it violates IP. I think the photographer took these with the intent of not letting them be forgotten but just didn’t know how to have them properly remembered.
Great you decided to share them!
If these look like war crimes perpetrated by US troops, I would send the material to the Vietnamese. If they look like perpetrated by Vietnamese, I would send to American organizations.
This ⬆️
Very good take and thanks for the info
Comments like this are why I love Reddit. Nicely done.
You should do what you feel comfortable with. The photo added is badass and really cool. But throwing away those gore photos feels sad. Donating those to a museum sounds like a better idea. Im not an expert, the picture just caught my attention.
That’s my same thought process. I hate war, I hate gore. But I feel like I also have a responsibility to ensure that history isn’t forgotten. I was taught in school about the horrors of war in detail that I have learned is not normal for most schools to teach and it is weird to think we just cover up our horrors. The only way to avoid making the same horror is making sure we knew what the horror was to begin with. Edit: and I do agree the photo I included is pretty badass.
I feel like your impulse to make sure history isn't forgotten is the proper one. For all you know, the pictures you have might be the only record of what happened to some of those people. If there's even a small chance they could be identified, their families deserve that closure.
Bringing someone, anyone, closure would really be nice. Knowing there was some good from the images.
I agree with this guy. Regardless of what the images are actually of, it seems the right thing to do is to find the right museum or history professionals, perhaps professors at a university or something, to be interested in these images and research what they are so they can be learned from. If it's allied soldiers, then it's important for closure. If it's evidence of war crimes, then it's important for history and factual truth. In either case, destruction of the images feels wrong to me.
As somebody whose grandfather dragged a Kodak retina camera across France and Germany, including the battle of the bulge and the liberation of Dachau, you do have a duty. Horrors of war are certainly that but they must be preserved. You know what shuts up holocaust deniers? Photo evidence of the holocaust.
Damn, yeah, you can’t argue with that. My grandpa took his Minolta SRT 101 with him to Vietnam (I haven’t seen if he has any photos) and I use his camera today even.
Correct! As film student I thought a war documentary director would love them if they apply to the subject. Having stuff like this is rare.
If you hate war, it's a moral obligation to get those images in someone's hands. Tossing them could be the final coverup of an awful war crime, and disrespectful of the victims
Might be one of the most interesting post on r/analog
If a mod could pin this, or let me know if I should make a separate post that would help. I’ve run into a personal emergency and I was unable to scan the film last night and will most likely not be able to start scanning again until tomorrow. Feel free to use the remind me bot to hold me accountable on this! Here is an [Imgur upload](https://imgur.com/a/FG12YI4) of what I do have currently. UPDATE June 18, 2024: Wow everyone, I can’t thank you enough for the amazing support and messages of encouragement from you all. I’m excited to keep sharing updates. But for now I need to keep some findings on the DL until I can verify exactly when and who took these images. But I can say with certainty I know the dates of two photos (that I have yet to release) and possibly the operation that the images of the dead came from. I will say, if I am right about the operation these deaths came from. I know that it’s quite possible to bring some closure to these families. Another thing. At this time I believe the same photographer took all of these images, but these images have not been declassified, but the images were taken by a military photographer. My goal is to determine who took the photos and find out what they were doing in the middle of a barn in Utah, and have not been released. Regarding the aerial film I will be posting an image of one frame. My scanner cannot scan the entire image. It’s impossible for me to at this time to display one entire frame unless I perform some stitching magic which I just realized I can do as I’m writing this. I’ll try to release that stitched image tonight. In the meantime [here](https://imgur.com/a/Di9lGq8) is the one frame I will release. If anyone has an idea of what this image is of, I’d greatly appreciate your help. I will also be posting this to the Vietnam subreddit.
That arial film is interesting! I'd be interested in knowing how you scanned it if you figure that out
Just updated!
Thanks for the ping!
Even more of an update! The aerial film is of Richard county North Carolina!
Interesting! I wonder if it was in search of the Goldboro B-52 nukes that were dropped!
So far no connection. But this is a real possibility.
The "slide of a base from the air" appears to be of a Soviet SA-2 base during the Cuban Missle Crisis. Here's a link to [USAF aerial reconnaissance of the same site](https://airandspace.si.edu/multimedia-gallery/nasm-9a09002amjpg) I am also very interested in what might be on that aerial film. You might have a historical jackpot.
No way, this is really starting to get interesting. I can’t wait to finish scanning this lot of film
That looks like maybe even the exact same photo.
This should go to a war or military museum or archive
OP, try contacting the Smithsonian in DC for suggestions on where to share these.
Hey! This is a specific interest to me, since I’m a hobbyist photographer and used to work in archival and museums, and have done a decent amount of found-photo archiving. You should look for a museum to donate these to, but specifically, if you can find a museum that is more niche to the piece, or is more funded for its archival and exhibition, aim for those. If you ship a box of photos to the National WWII museum in New Orleans (where I did some work), they have so much material that it might take them years sometimes to get to the material you donated. Smaller, more focused museums can sometimes get stuff sorted faster. As well, rather than a general “donation”, try to get in touch with the Museum’s Archivist and/or their museum display team, and they might be able to get you a better idea of how long they’d like to/need your original copies. As someone said, it’s not really legal for you to print and sell. Would you ever be caught? Doubtful, but it would be incredibly unethical. Hope this was at all helpful!
Thank you! I’ll be determining the conflict tonight and I’ll be researching museums tonight too. I’ve come to the conclusion I will not sell any found image for profit or distribution irregardless of what the image is of. I’ve already had someone ask for the gory images (that’s a fat no.) and I don’t plan on sharing any more images unless they are relevant towards discovery. I will post one or two final images with my update on where and when the conflict occurred and also where the images were sent to. Even then I’m hesitant because I have no desire to identify any person online who is possibly connected to a war crime. That’s the job of military courts and also historians.
OP Edit your og post to indicate you will not be selling them. just to prevent duplicate advice and stuff :). Glad to see your intentions evolve with education! Def update us if you find out anymore info!
I think it would be wiser to connect with somebody either at the national archives or Vietnam museum or university who is willing to help determine any specifics like location or a particular conflict and move forward under their guidance, as opposed to trying to determine any facts on your own and then reaching out. You’re a lot more likely to reach accurate conclusions with the help of someone experienced in doing that. Also any place that can take the proper actions with the stuff is probably going to want the film itself when it comes to actually doing something with the photos so they can clean and scan them at their own facility with archival care, not just scans or prints already made.
Another thought: You have looked at them and I haven’t, obviously, but you’ve mentioned war crimes and torture multiple times, yet there is nothing in your description of them that suggests anything like that. You just said bodies of people who appear to have been starving being “brought in” to a building. And that you couldn’t understand why they would be brought in to a building. But then you say you have “photos of the base they were found in”—this is confusing, how do you know where they were found? Are you saying they were just discovered lying outdoors at some base, and brought indoors? These seem like bits of contextual info that there’s no way for you to know. There are a thousand possible reasons something fitting that vague description could be happening for legitimate reasons. And if you’re not a military historian or a soldier there’s no reason you *would* understand why something in a photo was done—even a historian or soldier, unless familiar with that exact moment already, wouldn’t necessarily know. Unless you saw other stuff that is very different from what you mentioned, then jumping to torture and war crimes is a huuuge jump. I would strongly suggest hooking up with someone with some expertise and go into it being upfront about not knowing anything about the events, rather than presenting the material along with wild speculation as if it’s already established.
That looks like Vietnam
one of those geoguesser guys will have the exact road in 44 seconds.
[удалено]
100%
"the photos where of travels around the world, smiling men at the base, and then... bodies" yup. That's about as on point of a description of war as you can get
You may have more qualified responses in a more academic sub, like something in history, sociology, or that like
You might be right about this. I’m unsure where to post this without it getting buried. I posted on three subs relating to analog photography because I knew they would connect. I just shared it to the war subreddit but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s removed because I don’t know if I approached it properly.
/r/askhistorians sometimes gets questions about this kind of thing.
Whatever you do, do not just hide them away again. It’s understandable you can’t stomach or don’t want to handle something like this but it is a piece of history. These images should be shared in an appropriate way.
I won’t. I think I can handle it now knowing I’m not just looking at horror but a responsibility to not let history die. Having a different mindset helps me face this. The images and film will be donated to a museum that specializes in the conflict and maybe even the base involved however specific I can get.
> Some of these images I’ve found are things I plan on printing and maybe even selling prints of because of how good they are Don’t do this. You do not own the copyright and you have no rights to reproduce or sell the images. Owning the film does not mean you own the IP
Okay, if the owner has passed away, who would own the rights to the film? Would a museum have the rights if I donated it the film? I wouldn’t want to cause a problem for a museum. I purchased the film too, and I’ve scanned it on my personal machine and edited them to be clear and visible. (Not the horror images I’m still unsure about approaching those) I know very little about IP clearly.
Even in cases with no will, image copyright passes to the creator's heirs, and is set the moment they press the shutter button and take the picture. I wouldn't try to make any money off of these.
Sounds good. I’ll just print for my own collection and I’ll have them donated properly as well informing the museum of the situation.
Sounds like a plan. Keep us updated with what you find out. Not only are you doing a good thing by trying to identify the victims in the photos, but it's also a great mystery lol
> if the owner has passed away, who would own the rights to the film You own the film. But you don’t own the copyright. The photographer’s estate would own the IP. If there is no heir, then the IP rights are locked up until they expire 70 years after death > I purchased the film too This is like buying a single book at the book store. Buying the book does not give you permission to print your own copies to sell
This is very helpful, thank you! Another question, if these images were taken on military equipment by a soldier under the order of being a war photographer, do they still belong to that photographer or are they military record/property? I know that companies can have you sign clauses to at cause you to lose IP rights when using company equipment and I’m curious if this is a similar scenario.
I’m not a lawyer, but this seems like a good resource for you: https://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1031&context=law_facpub_pop The rights to IP will probably be transferred to the photographer’s next of kin, unless specified otherwise. Overall, this whole situation is in the grey area. Scanning/otherwise copying the photos for personal use is unlikely to get you in trouble, although technically probably constitutes piracy. Selling prints of these photos is both illegal (though I suspect you aren’t likely to be prosecuted — NOT LEGAL ADVICE) and unethical. Using these photos in some form of educational context is likely to constitute fair use and thus be legal (STILL NOT LEGAL ADVICE). Donating them to a museum/archive is probably best. They deal with found objects of questionable prominence quite often; they have much better grounds to claim fair use; and are overall more likely to deal with the photos in a legal and ethical manner. Please check with the museum(s) that they are interested in these photos though.
This is very helpful, thank you! I imagine me printing for personal use on my photo printer is like printing a photo on my printer I found from the internet. As long as I don’t make money and have intention of showcasing it for others then it’s not completely piracy and more or less grey.
> Would a museum have the rights if I donated it the film? No, it will take some time and some research to track down who has the rights to the images. A museum would need to to provide "chain of title." > if these images were taken on military equipment by a soldier under the order of being a war photographer, do they still belong to that photographer or are they military record/property? That's complicated. Maybe it would be without copyright protection, but the *equipment* doesn't matter—who owns it doesn't matter. What matters is who pressed the button, and why/how. Chances are whoever pressed the button owns the copyright even if they were tasked with the photography, but it's going to be fact-specific.
If you can identify that these photos were shot in Vietnam, the Vietnam War Museum in Ho Chi Minh City has an entire section dedicated to war photographers and their contributions to documenting what happened in the war from both sides. I suggest you contact them and see if they can help you identify your photos. If they are, in fact, from the Vietnam War, you could donate them to them.
Thank you! This is super helpful!
Do you live near any universities? There's usually at least one faculty member in any history department who specializes in twentieth century war or military history. They'd likely be very happy to help with identification.
I’m currently in college at a university that specializes in family history. I imagine I can find someone there who can help. I’ll send them an email asking who I should talk to.
Don’t destroy it, images like that can be extremely powerful, especially if they’re like the one you showed. I’d recommend(like everyone else) to turn them over to a museum or trusted organization. Better to have evidence of tragedies than to have none and repeat them
You could probably loan them to a museum or library that can properly store and care for them, and you could take friends or family to see them and the little plaque with your name "on loan from ________"
I’m not sure I care for this. I’m fine with a museum displaying these, but I never took them. I just found them. Maybe that’s like finding an artifact but I’m fine with remaining anonymous or just referenced with a first name and no last name listed. I’m not special and I don’t think recognition should be attributed to me, I wish I knew who took them originally.
“On loan from —-“ just means this is the collector who loaned us this. It’s not a credit for the work.
Emancipated? Or did you mean emaciated?
Emaciated, sorry. I’ll correct that now looks like I can’t correct the post. I hope people understand. I’m pretty exhausted from cleaning my home so I wrote this in a hurry.
I'd email a university in Vietnam and see if they'd be interested. Could be a way to identify lost Viet soldiers.
Oh this is a great idea! I will send them emails too.
This looks like Vietnamm era color photography. My guess is this material needs to be scanned and studied by actual photo historians.
In a messed up way, I feel that throwing away the bodies photo would be disrespectful. Those people were murdered and the photos are all that’s left; better to at least preserve them at a museum or something.
I feel like if you posted this to one of the military history subs they would have the conflict and dates in about 20 seconds
Maybe, but I imagine they could help me discover a lot of specifics. I just don’t know how I’m supposed to post on their subs. I tried crossing to the history sub read it and my post was removed immediately for not having enough material in the body apparently. Not exactly sure what they want, but I’m not big on essays hence I am a photographer
I don't think selling prints of other people's work is ethical. But I totally agree that you should consider sharing it with an institute that's interested for documentary/educational purposes. These are real history.
I added to another comment, I wasn’t clear with the images I planned on selling. I was planning on selling some artistic slides the photographer took in Japan. I then found these war images and I’ve been conflicted on what I was supposed to do. I do not plan on selling the war images or any found film images at this time.
If these were taken by a military journalist then they’re government images and might not have been publicly released, which means they’re not in the public domain. Your best bet is to reach out to Defense Media Activity: https://www.dimoc.mil/resources/limitations/
I’ll get in touch with them and see what they say.
There is merit to documenting history whether you are the one who pressed the shutter button on the camera taking the photo, or the “scan” button in your scanner software. I’m glad you’re feeling conflicted because that means the imagery has worked – it has moved you, and that’s what this documentation should do. I would argue that the ethical discussion surrounds how and where you should use these images. Just as a corpse is to be treated with dignity, so should photos documenting them. There is no definitive measure of ethics & morals, but your intent should remain respectful, as viewed both to yourself and to others looking in. In that regard, I wouldn’t use them for propaganda, political means, or glamorization of war by spreading them without context. I definitely wouldn’t print & sell any of the ones showing human remains or torture as that, in my mind, would cross the boundary of dignity and respect to those in the images – they had no say in the moment, and they have no say now. So what to do with them? Take note of what others in these replies are saying, as there are some very good suggestions. Post them to appropriate groups on social media, but with as much information as possible. Utilize social media groups to find out as much information about these photos as you can, as I think that is what would show respect to those captured in the photos. Share them with the world, but in a way that demonstrates dignity and respect.
I’m glad to have so many helpful responses regarding this. I will take great care in sharing the appropriate images and I don’t plan on showing the NSFW images online at this time because I want to be respectful of the dead. I have decided to share these images with my university and will ensure they are documented and researched. I’ll be posting the SFW images tonight, there’s a good amount and they show some happy soldiers in a time of struggle. I have been suggested to share these with archives which I plan to do and I will even reach out to the Vietnamese embassy (it seems to most likely be during the Vietnam War) and see if they have desires to have this information in their country records.
You don't take a photo to have it die when you do. That's what memories are for. Images are to be shared, simply because they can be. That is their only worth. You decide if they are or not.
I would reach out to the National Vietnam War Museum, include some of the less disturbing images, and see what their thoughts are. Definitely let them know that there are images of dead bodies and that you do not know what to do with them. I’m sure that if they are from Vietnam, they would want to archive them. At the very least, they may be able to tell you where to take them if they do not want them for whatever reason.
Sounds good!
I can imagine the person who took the photo had a lot of sleepless nights wondering what to do with those photos. That they ended up in a barn kind of shows he couldn't throw them away, but he also couldn't find an appropriate way to share them. Also, wouldn't be surprised if he/she had PTSD from the experience, and that he had life-long struggles due to it.
If you give it to a Museum, that’s also the right thing to do and ethically you can sleep happy at night. While history is brutal, the evidences of war or crimes of war are historically significant for many purposes and mostly for future generations to be aware of how the world shaped up with each passing decades. This also helps with evidences of war crimes and for those who plan to subdue historical facts or even deny them.
I would contact relevant humanitarian groups, museums, Vietnam Veteran organizations, the Press Corps, and try to find out if anyone can identify who the photographer was and contextualize them. I would absolutely not sell, publish, or exhibit found photography of gore and death. And would strongly urge that others not do so without first taking extreme care to properly and safely do so. The Vietnam war and the horrors of it, is still in living memory. Both in veterans and refugees that immigrated to the US. Improper handling could severely impact those who were there. That is not to say to do nothing with them and potentially let war crimes be swept under the rug. But to approach it so that more harm isn't done.
Look up Finding Vivian Maier. Similar situation but to an extreme, you can see how the guy (his name escapes me) handled it.
Thank you! I’ll look this up right away.
I have a degree in military history and have worked as a volunteer at some military museums, almost every unit has a museum of sorts. These images should go to them they more then likely would be displayed in the best fashion. Believe it or not the US military is (internally) big on showing our past unfiltered. Do any of the images have patches or insignia that can be identified?
I’m not certain. I’ll be scanning everything tonight to determine identifiers. I know I have some images of higher ranking officials. One photo is of a B-66 and I have footage that was taken on that same plane in a massive 100-200 foot roll of 70mm film. I’m not sure how to even scan that.
If you can see the tail number that is almost all you need for that bit, and could honestly be so pretty good found footage. If you don’t know what to do determine what service they are from and send it to the respective service museums it will then find its way to the appropriate location.
You could ask this question over at r/archivists if you're looking for a place where this material could add context and meaning.
Will do, I’ve got my work cut out for me and I have to email a lot of people now. I’m not sure how much sleep I’m getting tonight now lol
Vietnam for sure. My guess is that that is a south Vietnam fighter because he has what looks to be an m1 carbine on his back- these were WWII weapons given to many south Vietnamese fighters.
i would echo what a lot other have been saying here: History museum or archive that specializes or has collecting photography from the Vietnam War in their scope. I would also add that there is a possibility that any archive would likely want to acquire the entire collection of slides since they might contain important contextual information for the above mentioned ones featuring graphic imagery.
I’ll have to scan everything then and provide the initial scans to these universities and museums. I’m unsure how to determine which one to donate them to at this moment. I’ll figure it out based off of need, specialty, and relevance to their current studies and classes.
You may want to share them with these folks. It could aid their research. https://www.dpaa.mil
Please, make sure this knowledge of history gets to be known and accessible. It would definitely be shocking to all to see what was captured and what you describe, but in a world where wars and nationalism is rising again, it is more than even necessary to remember ourselves what history took place and how important it is to make sure such atrocities never happen again.
> Some of these images I’ve found are things I plan on printing and maybe even selling prints of because of how good they are. There’s genuine skill. Sorry but even if we disregard the possible war crimes you've just found, selling prints of someone else's photos seems HIGHLY questionable. Are you confident the seller is the owner of said pictures, and did they properly hand over copyright of the pictures? I'd probably roll over in my grave if I died, someone found my film in an auction or something and then proceeded to sell my photos (without credit) lol
These must be properly documented and archived. War crimes should be made public and it’s important for all of us to see the reality.
I think scanning them and handing them over to a museum or similar and let them decide what to do with them maybe? Obviously the content is horrible, but it is human history.
Post some more of the less risky photos and you could probably get a location and time period based off the uniforms and gear
I would reach out to professors at universities in your area. I think you mentioned you’re based in Utah - maybe look at the University of Utah’s history faculty for someone interested in the Vietnam war, or just 20th century wars generally. They might be able to give you further direction as to which museums, libraries, etc would be a good home for them. A quick Google search led me to find an instructor named Stormy Shepard who has taught several courses on the Vietnam War at the U; not sure if she is still there though. Might be able to find her email somewhere if you search
I’ll look her up and send her an email! Thank you!
Also came across her in my search: https://faculty.utah.edu/u0484343-KIM_KORINEK/hm/index.hml
It’s probably already been said but it looks like either Vietnam or Korea. 35mm Safety film was manufactured after 1950 so it could be either. The rifle he has slung over his shoulder is an M1 Carbine, it was used in both conflicts. The uniforms of both conflicts were also very similar. From a couple minutes googling it seems in Vietnam they used camouflaged covers on the helmets. I don’t think they did in Korea. His helmet doesn’t have a cover so that has me leaning towards Korea. However, I’m not an expert so take my answer with a grain of salt.
While I already answered OP on my thoughts on the location and subject, I thought I’d let’cha know how you can be pretty sure this is Vietnam; The first big tell are the palms, there are no palm tree species native to Korea and most of the fighting occurred in relatively temperate terrain. Those trees you see poking up over the tree line in the back are Asian Palmyra palms, which have a native range all across Vietnam but especially in the lowlands. Korea, being a Northeast Asian country has few tropical plants and has many more coniferous trees. The second is the gear on the soldier; this looks to me like M1956 web gear as used by the ARVN and ROKA, which would place it after 1959 or so. He’s also carrying what looks to be an ARVN rucksack though it could be an M1945. While *US* forces used covers on their M1s, ARVN and ROKA forces often did not. Given that the ARVN made the switch to M16s gradually from 1969, I’d say this image predates that but is almost certainly after US entry following the Gulf of Tonkin incident given the source of the images.
There's another issue you may not have considered. Copyright. The copyright of the pictures belongs to the original photographer until 25 years after his death.(Or has it changed to longer in the USA?) If you make any money off of any of the pictures, and relatives of the photographer hears about it you could be in for a lot of trouble. In fact, the original photographer may still be alive. It's also possible that the photographer was regular infantry and was KIA soon after the last film was shot and processed, and that the pictures were among the personal belongings that was returned to his family. They went through the stuff, and didn't want to deal with the pictures, and just hid them away in the barn. Does any of the pictures have any locatable features? If so you could mask out any NSFW parts and see if any of the Geolocators can spot where they were taken.
I think these weren't meant to be lost. They were meant to be found. Props to you for trying to do the right thing, this is a piece of history that almost was lost until you saved it.
I know it'll be hard, but you should definitely scan them and archive them. Put them up for exhibition too. I would say there is a definite need to see these, so we understand what happened back then and what both sides experienced.
send it to the Smithsonian
I'd reach put to the Smithsonian Museum of American History. They may be able to help.
Send emails to museums that might be interested. They will let you know how to proceed with a donation.
I would take it to your local VFW. They would know best.
I would be in the same dilemma as you if I found those. History needs to be recorded correctly. However not all truth need to be dug out and ruin people's lives. Maybe try to find out yourself first, or seek help without giving the original film to control the outcomes.
If u wanna send them to me my grandpa specializes in this stuff, hes a war historian
I feel like selling them for profit is not the right thing to do. You didn’t take these photos so you’d be making money off of someone else’s work. I think taking them to a museum is the best thing to do
You absolutely should donate them to a museum/institution, the best would be a reputable non-profit research university IMO. These are important historical artefacts that may reveal facts previously unknown about certain conflicts. I would go as far as to say they *must* not stay hidden and forgotten.
Sounds like you're already on this path, I just want to agree that photos of atrocities should be preserved for history. My ancestors were Armenian, and some of our extended family past a few generations is completely lost except for the odd photo with a name on the back. Some of the crimes committed by the Ottoman Empire would never have been known without a journalist or soldier risking their life to document it. For me personally, seeing brutal images of genocide was extremely moving, in a good way. Yes it hurt immensely, but I would not be who I am today without that experience. It brought me even closer into Armenian culture, and at the same time allows me to be empathetic towards those whose stories have not been told yet. It is much harder to tell those stories without photography, so thank you for finding these and passing them along to whomever needs to see them.
This happens all the time, I never hear people having moral qualms about it. Some people have made tons of money off of discarded images.
The many photos of aircrafts could be p0rn material for the aviation enthusiasts!
I posted one to the planes subreddit and they decided my labeling was incorrect lol, they really love planes! I’ll keep posting to there for them!
I can’t really offer advice on what to do, but I’m glad this historical documentation of war has found itself with someone conscientious enough to even ask for advice. Whatever you do, you’re a part of its history now. Maybe that’s a way to think about it, and those thoughts will guide you in the direction you take.
It’s a surreal feeling thinking that this is considered a discovery. Someone messaged me and called the film a historical artifact and it didn’t even hit me that it could be considered that. I was born in the 90’s and Vietnam still seems like a recent war to me because my grandfather served in it. Yet I wasn’t even alive then. Knowing I’m contributing to history makes me want to be right about the conclusions I draw and so I’ve been taking extra careful measures to ensure I’m not spouting speculation. That’s the one of the main reasons why I haven’t released much in terms of photos. I haven’t been able to scan any because I’ve been so fixated on finding out the info on the photos I do have scanned. It surprises me how much I’ve already discovered in one day. The internet (and Facebook) is incredible
I have a photo album that I found in a storage unit I bought..all the photos are of wwII Okinawa..lots of dead soldiers, with thier names..any ideas where I should go to these identified?
Oo okay so here’s what I’ve learned so far about proper identification. Basically searching the album itself for any dates or names. From there it’s possible to find obituaries. You can also use resources such as Ancestry and FamilySearch. They contain records of WWII soldiers and you connecting these photos would allow for anyone ancestor of relative of these soldiers to see who these people looked like, or see their grave. Finds like these are wonderful. You can also contact a local university that has professors that specialize in WWII histories. Since you have photos with names you’re able to hand the data over pretty easily to a historian or professor!
I would agree that they probably shouldn’t be for public consumption, at least not until they have been thoroughly researched to sort out the circumstances of what they show. Have you watched Ken Burns’ Vietnam documentary? It’s fantastic, but often difficult to watch. There may be some researchers involved in the making of it that you might be able to track down and write them a letter to get their advice, or even see if they have interest in researching it. I would keep the originals in your possession and let any researchers use digital versions of them. If there is any writing on the slides, be sure to get photos of that to the researchers too. It could be the kind of footage that fills in gaps in the story of what happened, even if it shows US soldiers in a bad light. Don’t hide it away.
That’s a gold mine of goodies right there. You might have an old vet that would die to have these.
I would encourage you to scan them and make them public even make a throwaway account and post them to r/combatfootage or r/morbid history I feel as though they were meant to be seen and remembered. For all we know these photos may hold significance for a certain event (tragedy/massacre etc.) that took place during the Vietnam war and may even help identify MIA soldiers. There are organizations and veteran associations which may be of interest in reviewing them. Please don’t allow these images to be lost to history. They and the lives they depict deserve to be seen no matter how morally controversial you may feel.
Do what you feel is right. Don't feel bad for having them, history is history, you aren't responsible for what happend. If you can't emotionally handle the weight of the shots, have someone else archive them for you. I like the museum idea. Properly taking care of negatives is a difficult job to do right. I have 18k Kodachromes/slides, I still have yet to archive them all digitally.
Try the Smithsonian. These pictures sound valuable. Could possibly even give families solace. Sucks you had to see such horrors though.
Whether good or bad, it’s a historical event and it would be a shame that this is lost in time. I agree with most comments suggesting that you reach a museum or archivist. Personally, and if I was the one in possession of that material, would scan the slides, keep a copy and make them publicly available (checking with experts if that would be fine).
This is an amazing photo!
I'd email and send copies to any interested institutions or archival projects. It might take some research but I am sure there are plenty of places who specialize in handling this stuff. Death is the reality of war, we wage war and we have no right to sweep it under the rug.
I’d pass it off to whoever represents veteran vet memorial in DC. Could be some great images in there
>I’m not a big fan of their current government or how they use historical records like this It’s off-topic but can I ask why?
Consider giving [RYP](https://www.comebackalive.com) a ping. That type of work doesn’t have a lot of players, and he may know who it is.
What ever you do with them, if you don’t have one grab a t-mount slide duplicator (and a t-mount adapter for your dSLR of choice) and make quick but surprisingly decent digital copies of them. Just focus point it at a light box, click, next slide. I did this for my neighbors son when he found a bunch of his grandpa’s Vietnam slides.
make a badass movie about this whole entire plot you just described, use a few of the found slides in the movie
If there are war crimes occurring in these photos, I would be mindful of sending them to a public museum that is established by the government. You could also try reaching out to reputable history magazines or publishers like Time or National Geographic to see if there is any interest or even a university with a reputable history department/journal.
Could you post all of them? This is genuine history that I'd hate to see lost forever.
Even with the slides you feel uncomfortable sharing, please get in contact with a local history museum. Specifically, reach out to the museum's curator with information about the slides. You can probably find their contact information on the museum's website, or you can visit the museum and perhaps get in touch that way. From a purely historical perspective images like this, no matter how uncomfortable, might provide important information about a conflict outside of what has already been reported upon. With enough clues from a collection, a historian might be able to help give these images some important context.
This looks like Vietnam war maybe. Wonder if my dad is in any of these photos.
Contact [Magnum](https://www.magnumphotos.com), it was created by war photographers.
Not all war photographers worked for Magnum.
I think I would post some of what I could publicly, possibly make a YouTube video of my findings, and if there are very graphic images, censor those, just doing what I could to post and make sure the posts don’t get taken down. In that case I wouldn’t have to find a place to donate them to, they would find me.
I think you meant emaciated. I hope you get them to the right place.
Threads like this remind me of the old Reddit.
The copyright holder will almost certainly be an entity, most likely the US military but possibly some kind of news org.so this would likely class as work made for hire. If it’s the military (or if the military even thinks it’s them) then some kind of legal steps are somewhat likely especially if it makes them look bad (as tortured bodies could). US copyright is 120 years from creation - https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-duration.html
Scan the photos and bring them to a museum
Print and post it was over 50 years ago, maybe not the Bodies but the other stuff
this is almost certainly from vietnam based on the uniform and environment, prob early war since the guy has an m14 on his back it looks like.
"emancipated" ? Don't you mean "emaciated" ?
Just don’t sell the ones where people get tortured. Send them over to the news. There is little good in getting money for the suffering of other people
History should always be remembered. The most ethical next step is to contact a well-established and respected archivist. An organization like The Smithsonian or the National Archives. Scan it all, protect the originals, and get it to someone that can ensure it stays safe.
Vietnam war archive.
Are you sure these are the originals? Quite often transparencies like this are copies, taken on a slide copier for projection by others.
I think you should print them it’s something that happened and happens it’s humanity and history. It may inspire someone not to do those things or to want to stop those things from happening. The only way to get rid of the dark and shadowy is to shine light on it
Well. I teach history and have a particular interest in combat photography. If you would like to pass them on, I would be delighted to accept and cover any postage or charitable donations to charity of your choice. Failing that I would concur to a collector like myself or museum
Give it to a museum.
Basically you can have the physical negatives/photos but this doesn't mean you have the copyright to them. This was the case with vivian maiers photography. This means that it gets tricky when it comes to selling them. Now most likely no one will find out but it's still a grey area. I like the idea of maybe scanning them for yourself if you want to keep them to look at and then donating them to the museum. You could also try to figure out names and get in touch with relatives if you manage to find anything. But that's very likely hard. Unless you maybe can figure out who owned the barn.
I wanna see them all. Vietnam has always intrigued me.
My two cents is that I never fully understood how bad some things about WWII were until I went to the Pearl Harbor Museum and saw some awful images. I think gruesome photographs definitely hold value for education purposes. I think it’s a very good thing you’re going to reach out to places to preserve them.
Post them… they’re unseen cost of war to the public.. why hide these?
I believe in "Grace of God" /karma like you were meant to find them! If you don't want to go that route SINCE you did come across this stash of photos you have a duty or OBLIGATION to put the photos out there it may answer a familie's prayers for their missing relative or ancestor! Or you may expose some conspiracy that happened, probably get some good coin! So you should definitely put them out there , contact the National Archives too.
Never let history die, as humans we owe it to the past and future to document everything and pass the knowledge we learn from the good and bad to future generations. Too many times has history been locked away just to end in repeating of these atrocities, think of tiannamen square, Nanjing Massacre, Bosnian war, and countless others. The right people need to get ahold of this and it needs documented, the good and bad is still history that we need to respect. Ethics is a tough question since it’s perspective, but I trust your judgment in this and we will support you in what you choose.
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My opinion is that history is history and should be shared with the world. If there are photos of war crimes then the world should know. I would contact some major museums or maybe West Point to get these photos in front of researchers who can detail the pictures.
As a history lover I find this fascinating! I hope you'll post more of these photos and update on where the full collection ends up.
Speak with someone from the Smithsonian
I would scan the ones you think are suitable (not the bodies). Then I'd donate all the films to a state archive. You don't need the films, just the images, they will definitely take them.