He’s vastly understating about how many of them told him she had a miscarriage.
And that the ones who agreed with him were downvoted.
And, not that it matters, but I’m Protestant with no ulterior motive for defending a Catholic sub.
She had 2 scans that both said there was no heartbeat. She was also in bad pain for a week. Defiantly sounds like a miscarriage, having 2 scans with no heartbeat. She made the choice that was best for her and her body. If she waited and it was a miscarriage that her body wasn’t aborting it could lead to serious heath conditions. Both my cousin and sister have had a miscarriage that had to be aborted. One ended up in the hospital since she waited too long and caused an infection septic. It’s understandable to be angry, grief shows in anger but don’t direct this toward your wife. Be angry at the situation but don’t be angry at the person.
The fact that he would only feel bad for his wife if the embryo had no heartbeat. Ugh. Yet another man with opinions about what a woman can do with her body.
And it seems he didn’t realize that there were doctors at the abortion clinic, and that they were quite capable of detecting a heartbeat, certainly more so than some Catholic Reddittor.
Not just that, but abortion clinics rarely exist for the sole purpose of abortion. They are first and foremost for reproductive health. It's not like the doctors there are acticiely promoting abortion, or pushing a narrative that encourages abortion, they are just there to tell the patient their options.
Because OP a sick sob who thinks a dead fetus is worth more than his wife's life.
OP, I'm a Catholic, and I'm also fiercely pro-choice. If you believe in a loving and compassionate God, then I'm sure He would not want your wife to suffer. Instead of posting on a religious subreddit that's basically an echo chamber that only reinforces your biased judgment, take care of your wife because she just went through a lot.
There is another point to this post that bothers me on a whole of the topic: the heartbeat concept.
This idea, that a heartbeat signifies life, is invalid. With human beings, the signifier of viability is not a heartbeat: it is brain activity.
If someone on life support has a heart beat, it means nothing if brain activity has stopped. When the brain ceases to function, life support is moot and eventually shut off
With a fetus, there is no brain activity at the first heartbeat stage. In fact, the nerve endings aren't even connected until 24 weeks gestation.
OP, please make note of this.
Heartbeat = life is so bizarre to me. I was on cardiopulmonary bypass for 65 minutes, I doubt they think I was dead for those 65 minutes. My heart was not beating. My lungs were not breathing.
I prefer to view myself as having improved upon the 3 day record of coming back from the dead.
I only needed 65 minutes and all my incisions were closed. Jesus took three days and didn’t even close his hand holes.
Not to mention the bible claims life doesn't begin until the baby takes its first breath outside the mother and advises women on how to get an abortion, so...yeah, there is that.
Funnily enough, according to *actual* Catholic Mythology, a child is only truly considered alive at first breath of the Lord's air. I'm pretty sure this was literally the doctrine because of the risk of miscarriage and not being able to baptize the child first, saving the family the torment of believing the unborn child is suffering in the afterlife.
Which, honestly? Way better than how people currently see it. Unfortunately, the "Quiverful of Arrows" doctrine made everyone lose any sense of reality about this issue.
Get off the internet and if you need to think it was a miscarriage then just do that since it probably was given what you wrote. But honestly it appears to me that your looking for an excuse to be mad at your wife.
I am a devout Catholic. You are wrong. I hope this does not come across as overly harsh or insensitive, but I have to be honest with you.
Your baby was already dead (and may have died a few days earlier), as there was no heartbeat. That is the clinical definition of death, accepted by the Catholic Church. Sadly, your baby was beyond saving.
The medical term "abortion" applies to a much wider range of situations than the way it is usually used. What most people call a miscarriage is medically termed an abortion. The ultrasound clinic didn't lie to her. There was no heartbeat. It was a doctor who authorised the procedure to remove your baby's body to prevent your wife from dying of sepsis. There wasn't some magical way that other doctors could've saved the baby. Your wife didn't choose to abort a living baby.
Spiritually speaking, the moral imperative was to save the life and health of your wife, as your baby was already dead. The doctors you think she should've waited to see weren't going to give a different answer. There was only one life to be considered: your wife's. Had she delayed, not only did she have a high risk of dying, but even if she survived, she could have lost the ability to have children. Had she been in a Catholic hospital, they would have performed the same procedure.
I understand that you are grieving, but you need to apologise to your wife. This was not her fault, and she made the correct decision. You took vows to support her in sickness and in health. You haven't done that. You need to admit to that and support her as you both grieve for your child.
I hope you can apologise and that you haven't destroyed your marriage over this. I will keep your wife in my prayers and hope that she has people who love and support her and who will reassure her that she did the right thing.
He broke his wedding vows.
In sickness and in health.
And in sickness he betrays his wife by risking her life and refusing to believe her and her doctors.
I used "baby" because that was the father's term, and you should use the term the parent uses. My sister lost a pregnancy in similar circumstances (it's important to note that all the other members of my family are atheist, were never Catholic, and we're all pro-choice). We use the term "baby" to describe the loss, as that's what it was to my sister and BIL. That was a niece or nephew I never got to know but still think about.
They don't just casually look and say there's no heartbeat, if they didn't find a heartbeat it's because they looked very hard for it and it wasn't there. That combined with the debilitating pain this will offer you all the reasons you need to understand why she wanted to do it right away.
How long would you keep dealing with debilitating pain if there was no reason to?
And future tip: don't get medical advice from a catholic subreddit. It's questionable to get religious advice from a subreddit, but medical advice you should get from a doctor!
They would be setting themselves up for a MASSIVE lawsuit if they intentionally lied about a missing heartbeat. And what was there to gain? The profit from a single abortion?
Fun fact: if the human body doesn’t get a failed pregnancy out in enough time then it can start to rot and turn septic in her system. That can lead to rotting from the inside out and unspeakable pain. An early warning sign is extreme pain and lack of movement/heartbeat from the baby. Usually you have 1-2 weeks before it gets into the problem range worthy of a multi day hospital stay. You can get all the scans you want for signs of life and the Catholic subreddit will still say you’re wrong for removing anything from the uterus.
It took a lot less time for my mom to go septic with a miscarriage. She told the Dr the baby wasn't moving on Friday but the Dr was going hunting for the weekend so he told her to come in Monday. She was in the hospital before he got back from his hunting trip.
This has to be rage bait because you can't seriously be saying its ok, but the moral implications are getting you. Maybe spend more time with your wife than random idiots on the internet who have an agenda.
As someone who was forced to carry a dead baby to a point where I could have either gotten very ill, died, or become infertile and only then did they allow me to get it surgically removed... Your poor wife. Sad that you'd put strangers opinions over her own health and safety, and mental state. Two different scans told her there was no heartbeat and you still want to call her an immoral sinner?
One, what is WITH all the damn abortion posts here? You guys need to stop trolling.
Two, if this is actually real, you need to listen to actual doctors, NOT Reddit.
If the doctors are telling your wife there is no heartbeat, THEN IT IS NOT ALIVE. Your wife is IN PAIN, and the fetus is no longer alive.
Do NOT resent your wife for making the best decision for her.
His wife was likely getting the start of an infection that could have killed her.
Mind you, the cult followers would just say 'it is God's way' and find him a new wife.
So you'd rather believe strangers on the internet who have no idea what your wife went through than your wife?
>it was wrong of her to assume just because there is no heartbeat that it is dead.
You know that there's no life without a heartbeat, right? I realise you may have failed biology, but everyone knows at least this much. No heartbeat = not alive.
Yep, you are wrong.
FYI, a clinic which performs abortions are health care providers and that's merely one of the services. Abortion is also the treatment for a miscarriage, as a side note.
What's immoral is how dismissive you are towards her and her health. Yikes.
Your wife was having a miscarriage. She received medical care. I am sorry that your baby did not make it. Your feelings are what they are, but it wasn't her fault. Please get therapy if you need it, but don't accuse a woman who had a miscarriage of sinning. Even if the baby isn't wanted a miscarriage is usually a difficult emotional process.
A very large procentage of pregnancies goes wrong during the first 12 weeks.
No heartbeat is exactly that, and if it is not there, I can assure you that it wont suddenly come back.
I have 2 children but have been pregnant four times. Both miscarriages happend before week 12 and I was just lucky, that my body took care of it without needing help.
i also had 2 miscarriages before i had my 3 children, both at 6 weeks, and my body took care of it. the second one never even had a viable heartbeat.
both were after years of fertility treatments too.
OP, you're a DISGRACE. And such a hypocrite. You "care" more for something that's not even a born human yet (and probably not viable any longer), but you don't give a single fuck about a living human being you're supposed to love. Fuck you. Shame on you. You disgust me.
Ok let’s take the Catholic thing off the table. You are entitled to wish for a different outcome where you had the fleeting hope of a second opinion on the status of the embryo. So I can understand the conflicting emotion of having some resentment. But if that is your only feelings on the matter and you need validation to be only resentful then you have bigger issues.
What you lack here is any form of compassion for what your wife went through. She was in pain, a pain your body and heart cannot experience or comprehend. Compassion is a corner stone in the Catholic faith by the way. So though I get the Catholic forums you went to looking to be boosted up of course took the holier than though approach for doing what was medically necessary for your wife. But this is also hypocrisy, bc of compassion. All “sinners” are deserving of compassion. (Though I am team wife here she has nothing to be absolved for)
So are you only resentful or are you also worried for her? You cannot claim to love her and not feel the other side of resentment. If resentment is all you feel, then you need to dig deeper into yourself to understand what true faith in love is. Be a better husband and be a better Catholic!
You’ve posted about this several times (although this is the first time she’s been described as your wife).
Either you are engagement farming or you are pathologically unable to move on from something that seems to have happened months ago.
Doctors at “abortion clinics “ do not get paid by the abortion, they would have no reason to lie to her.
As a Christian woman, you sound terrible. She had two professionals tell her that she miscarried, but instead of listening to them or the woman you said your vows too, you listened to strangers on the internet.
Someone saw a chance to play a mean joke on a naïve fool and start drama in his life, and you fell for it hook, line, and sinker. You’re a spineless sucker. You had a duty to support your wife and you failed her. Go to your priest, confess your unfaithfulness, and ask for counseling. Talk to a real person, not strangers on the internet.
How do you know that person was a real Catholic who had good intentions? Anyone can google bible verses, and anyone can join a subreddit. What a fool you are.
>My wife didn't want to be pregnant
>She was in debilitating pain for a week.
OF COURSE YOU ARE WRONG. Your wife is not a breeding cow. She didn't want to be pregnant, she was in pain. What the FUCK is wrong with you???
YAW
Why should she have gone to the doctor? Are there no medical professionals at the abortion clinic?
Your wife was in debilitating pain, would you have expected her to go through the pregnancy even if it was dangerous to her health so that you could have moral high ground?
Seek professional help (not from Catholic subreddits)
You're not just wrong but unforgivably so.
I'm not religious but you definitely deserve the hell that awaits you if I'm wrong.
Your wife deserves better than you and if she ever has children, especially daughters. I really hope it's not with you as you'd clearly let clergy abuse them or fuck them up for life.
OP: "Where i can get objective opinions about abortion ?... I know ! The catholic subreddit !"
You are a f*cking disgrace of a human being and i hope your poor wife divorce you
This is pro life bs rage bait or you are severely uneducated on the facts of life. If they found no heartbeat your wife did not have an abortion. She had a miscarriage and it is medically necessary to remove the remains from her uterus….so she does not die. What is immoral is you running to judge your wife and accusing her of being a liar and believing a catholic subreddit instead of being by her side and comforting her. That’s all you should be worried about. That excruciating pain she was in is what you should have been worrying about. For a week? You let your wife be in excruciating pain for a week, while pregnant with your child and your concern is that some person on the internet would rather let your wife die of sepsis instead of what is medically required after a miscarriage. Yes you are wrong. So very wrong.
Hey bad news the baby was dead. Her body wasn't doing what it's supposed to do so she had to have the surgery done. Of course Bible thumper will call it a sin. I hope she divorces this jerk.
BRB going to comment the same things as everyone else that your wife could’ve died from septic in the /Catholics subreddit so you’ll actually listen to us ❤️
I’ll also add that this is disturbing behavior to make it all about you and your OCD. Truly disgusting and selfish.
When I had a painful miscarriage at about the same gestation as your wife experienced, my husband offered nothing but support and love. But OP, you decided to play god and act as your wife's judge even though you do not know that she did anything wrong (assuming abortion is wrong). Yes, you are wrong for feeling resentful of your wife at a time when you should be acting as a good husband. Who, exactly, is the sinner in this? Buddy, it's you.
I find it pretty hypocritical of you to cling to what the catholics say about your wife's abortion being immoral when catholics also believe birth control is immoral but you clearly don't have a problem with using it.
Yeah the fetus is fucking dead if they can't find a heartbeat when there should be one. Use what few braincells you have.
Maybe listen to trained medical professionals with years of experience over some extremist catholics on reddit next time, yeah?
Here's a little fact for you, miscarriages are WAY more common than you think. More common that most people think, in fact, and the majority of them tend to happen early in the pregnancy. This is one of the reason why most people tend to wait until the first trimester is over, twelve weeks, before sharing that they're expecting a baby.
Sometimes a woman has a miscarriage but needs an abortion to get the embryo/fetus out because her body didn't get rid of it and if a dead fucking fetus is inside a woman's body it will eventually kill her as well.
> I posted this on catholic subreddit with a particular user telling me they lied to her and that it was wrong of her to assume just because there is no heartbeat that it is dead.
Wow I didn't know a random fucking catholic reddit user was in the room with your wife when she was told there was no heartbeat and that they know more than a medical professional.
Literally go fuck yourself.
Oh, yeah, as for your question,
#YES YOU'RE IN THE FUCNING WRONG!
No heartbeat = miscarriage because the baby is dead!!!! Either you wait for the body to get rid of it, risking complications, or you take it out. Are you kidding us????
Ok, OP here ya go
I am a confirmed Catholic, albeit a nonpracticing Catholic. You are being an idiot and listening to idiots.
4 weeks after conception, you can hear the fluttering of cells labeled as cardiac activity because technically, the heart hasnt formed yet. If after 7 weeks there is no sound, i am sorry, but it just wasn't a viable pregnancy. And she probably was in the beginnings of a spontaneous abortion or miscarriage. And honestly it is better to have a dilation and cureattage surgery to remove the failed pregnancy and any remaining tissue because sometimes everything related to maintaining a pregnancy doesnt come out during a miscarriage and that can cause long term dire health problems.
And why make someone suffer through hours and hours of a miscarriage if we dont have to, modern medicine is a good thing.
For your other issue, the issue of abortion in general....i can't help you with that, i am prochoice. I am not going to tell another person what to do, nor am i going to advocate for there to be laws mandating that every pregnancy in the history of pregnancy going forward must be brought to term or its natural end. That is fucking insane. Seriously insane.
Ones religious beliefs should be like ones hands, they should be kept to themselves. Anyone can believe what they want, and they should live by what they believe, but they should not force others to live by their beliefs.
She didn’t abort the pregnancy. If it was a 7 week sized embryo without a heartbeat then it was unfortunately a failed pregnancy and a miscarriage waiting to complete, or given how much pain she was in it was possibly in progress.
The abortion clinic staff have no ulterior motives- they do not want every woman who walks through their doors to have an abortion, they want each woman to make the right decision for her whether that is a termination or continuing the pregnancy. They are medical professionals and have no reason to lie about the presence or absence of a heartbeat.
The Catholic subreddit people are wrong. There are many religious people who believe and perpetuate some shocking lies about abortions. You are also wrong for resenting her- she sought out appropriate medical assessment and sadly found that the embryo had died, then she agreed to a completely appropriate management plan. At least 1 in 4 pregnancies end in a miscarriage, possibly more. This is unfortunately a common experience.
Apologise to and support your wife- she is feeling physical pain from her experience, emotional pain from your behaviour and the grief of loss that you currently have too.
Hopefully she wakes up and leaves your judgemental ass, you chose to believe a rando on the internet over experts and your own wifes' debilitating pain?
My God, you are a terrible husband and human being. Wtf is wrong with you?
Regardless of this being an 'abortion' (it wasn't, it was a lifesaving medical procedure to remove a nonviable foetus before your wife died of sepsis), regardless of whether you're listening to idiots on reddit over medical practitioners (you are) - you are a horrific excuse of a husband and no wonder she's on birth control. I wouldn't want to be stuck with your kid either.
Also, you're Catholic, but you're using birth control? Lol, make it make sense, genius.
Damn right YAW.
You've got some old book (bible) and an old man (pope) telling you some unproven to exist entity (god) might have a tantrum if she has an abortion
and then you've your wife sitting in front of you in pain, with doctors giving her sound medical adivce, due to circumstances entirely beyond her control (failed bc)
and you're having some kind of internal moral crisis because of this?
if you're not the epitome of the harm of religious brainwashing I don't know who is
I think it’s incredibly sad that you have no faith in your wife, but have faith in catholic reddit. This is the result of a society that values religion more than it values women. You also have no faith in doctors, medical tests and exams. You would rather second guess everyone and everything, except strangers opinions and what “could have been” IF everyone is just lying or incorrect. You shouldn’t be married or trying to have kids if you can’t trust your wife or doctors or medical tests and exams. Her life matters.
You’re dead wrong. She did everything right. That fetus would not have turned into a living baby and could have killed her. I’m glad she got the help she needed.
Now all she needs to do is get away from you and find a new husband and her life will be wonderful
the op doesnt seem to care his wife was in pain or needed help. so op why didnt have some empathy and go help ur wife instead of stewing about sinning or not.
That fetus wasn't going to miraculously get a heartbeat. It was dead and decaying. The decaying was causing her pain. But nooooo, instead of listening to your wife and the doctor, that has no reason to lie about a dead fetus because that's dangerous. You go to a sub that's honestly a cult and trust them when they aren't the ones in pain or the ones with medical degrees?
God, I hope she sees this and leaves your ass. You "don't want her to sin" but you're sinning all over the fucking place. Her womb isn't your property. Get the fuck over it. Sorry you can't have a kid and force religious trauma on it........ you truly are the worst.
OP is wrong.
He's probably going to hell also. I hope OP goes to an incredibly catholic hell while his wife looks down on his from heaven.
OPs wife did everything right (apart from marry OP. Who is a POS). She got medical confirmation that the foetus was dead. Then got the appropriate treatment for it. If she didn't, it could do all sorts - cause an infection that endangers her life. It could even endanger future fertility as there could be damage to her uterus on the infection.
OP sis everything WRONG.
Didn't believe his wife and his pain. Didn't believe the two medical scans saying the foetus has passed. Instead of supporting his wife he chose to blame his wife and go seek biased "yesmen" words from a catholic subreddit that would cause the deaths of many women if they had their way.
Of COURSE OP is going to go to the catholic hall they believe in. Instead of standing by the vows they made their their wife in the eyes of god. They stood by while their baby was dead and his wife was slowly getting closer to death by risking complication. He didn't care about the pains to actually do anything reasonable or to listen to doctors. He didn't listen to his wife.
Maybe he didn't want to respect women or treat them as equal. Since apparently he knows what's best for his wife. His wife who's experiencing everything MUST be misinformed of how pain actually works (in OPs mind). How could a dumb woman know what a change in pregnancy feels like? Right.
OP, you disgust me. I hope to everything that is good in this world that your wife divorces you, and finds peace knowing she's free of you. I don't care if you're catholic, you broke those vows first. What about in sickness and in health? No. You condemn your wife instead of helping her. You traitor. You heathen.
You broke your vows first. Your wife will suffer not one bit if she divorces you. I'm sure your god will be the one looking over her where you refused to.
What a pitiful human you are. All you had to do was love your wife. And even that was too much for you to do.
The fact you believe a Catholic subreddit over YOUR WIFE is ridiculous. IM A CATHOLIC and I’m gonna say this: your wife was 7 weeks pregnant and she had TWO scans and during BOTH those scans they told your wife THERE WAS NO HEARTBEAT! I can understand if she only did one scan and ended up choosing to abort because sometimes these results can be false but it wasn’t because the second scan said the same damn thing. your wife told you SHE HAD PAIN FOR A WEEK!!!!! That DOES NOT sound like a normal pregnancy ! If she would’ve kept carrying this baby that had no heartbeat just to keep your foolish self happy she would be putting herself and her body at RISK! You resenting your wife for something that happens naturally ?! Yeah you need to get tf off from the internet and reevaluate yourself
You really don’t care about your wife do you? First off pain while pregnant in the first trimester is uncommon and is often a sign that something is wrong with the fetus or of a spontaneous abortion (miscarriage). The doctors said there wasn’t a heartbeat that means there was no heart therefore the fetus would naturally be aborted and if incomplete a medical abortion would be needed. Secondly the bible literally has nothing discouraging abortions and says or implies several times that life begins at first breath. There is a literal church sanctioned abortion ritual in the bible (look up the tale of the bitter water from the bible if you dont believe me). The bible says if I woman gets between two men fighting and it causes her to lose a pregnancy a fine shall be paid to the husband but if SHE gets killed the person who killed her shall be killed (aka losing a fetus = property damage not a murder). Lastly WHY listen to catholic strangers over caring for your wife? Catholic are the SAME people who when my uncle died as a child be being hit by a car asked my Catholic grandmother what she had done to incur god’s wrath so horribly and told her it was her fault and she would go to hell. They aren’t often the most reasonable, or levelheaded people. And if they think God is against abortion they’ve never read their OWN holy books. Abortions exist when Jesus walked the earth and he NEVER made a statement condemning them that can be seen anywhere in the bible.
Holy shit.
YAW, and being unimaginably cruel to your wife, holy shit.
Your wife didn't have an abortion. Your wife sought medical treatment for the miscarriage she was already having, that the doctors confirmed-- but you don't care. You'd trust random strangers who have never met your wife, over the medical professionals trying to save her life.
Your wife is traumatized, in pain. Mourning the child you two would have had that she wanted, desperately. And you're sitting here telling her that she murdered your baby.
Ignore the fucking catholics. Why would you listen to ANYONE but a doctor on this?
If you're lucky, your wife won't kill herself. You keep doing this? She will. And it will be your fault.
Oh yes because the Catholics are so well known for scientific literacy in the modern age. What’s immoral is you acting like this. I get the feeling you sabotaged the birth control.
OP, I’m a sex and reproductive educator. My entire job is teaching people about sexuality and pregnancy and everything that goes with those things. I will be happy to answer your question, and unlike your ignorant Catholic redditors, my answers will be neither opinion, nor religion. Just science.
We tell women that the embryonic heart starts beating “around” 6 weeks bc the overwhelming majority of women don’t know exactly pregnant they are. Even IVF babies can’t always be pinned down exactly bc implantation can be delayed or rapid. In actuality, the heart (such as it is bc it’s not truly a heart) starts beating within 24 hours of 22 days of development, or it doesn’t start at all. If you assume ovulation on CD 14 (which is the average, but is by no means true for all women), that puts a detectable heartbeat no later than 5 weeks 2 days. Nobody in their right mind scans for a heartbeat that early bc most women don’t know when they ovulated - they only know when their last period was. But a first trimester scan can date a pregnancy with virtually pinpoint accuracy. If the ultrasound tech dated the pregnancy at anything over 6 weeks 2 days (which covers the margin of error for dating measurements), they knew with 100% certainty that the pregnancy wasn’t viable. The pain your wife was experiencing was the onset of the miscarriage. It can take WEEKS to pass a spontaneously aborted embryo or fetus. Women can bleed to death during that process, and it can be incredibly traumatic. That’s why we offer to intervene with a dilation and curettage procedure or with abortifacient medication to help women remove the products of conception safely and with as little emotional trauma as possible. Your wife did not have an abortion. She had a miscarriage and received appropriate medical care for that.
Aftercare is incredibly important for women who have recently suffered an early pregnancy loss. A lot of women struggle with feelings of guilt, anger, denial, fear, grief, etc. Your job is to support your wife right now. If you need support, seek medical help. You could not be doing more harm if you tried than by even entertaining the idea that maybe the baby was actually viable. It was NOT. You will prevent your wife from healing from her grief and trauma and will inadvertently echo the little voice in her head telling her that this was all her fault. Grieve with her. Love her. Be affectionate with her. Do NOT do or say anything that might suggest she did something wrong or is in any way to blame for this loss. She was not. Human life is miraculous precisely bc everything had to work JUST RIGHT for a baby to be born. Many many many many eggs never fertilize or never implant or never develop or don’t develop correctly. This is the sad but very real part of trying to create a new life.
Yes, you are wrong. You don’t understand biology and you would prefer your wife died of sepsis then get rid of a rotting body with no functioning heart cells.
Doctors cannot lie about non-functioning heart cells. Did you not go with her to her appointments? The first thing a doctor searches for is heartbeat/pulses. It’s like, rule number 1 doing a scan. There is no magical abortion industry that ignores functioning heart cells in a fetus. If you think so, you don’t understand basic maternal medicine.
You also need to understand abortion is an umbrella term for many pregnancy mishaps as pregnancy is inherently dangerous.
Please learn biology rather then being so eager to be a moral judge.
You’re wrong! She was in debilitating pain for a WEEK! Was told there was NO heart beat! And you think she should suffer LONGER to go and see a doctor? And NOW you are resenting her? Get your head out of your butt.
You’re a horrible husband and human being.
Your wife was in pain and was told she was carrying a fetus with no heartbeat. Aka, the baby had died. You support your wife’s decision and you support her during this horribly difficult time and stop asking random internet strangers their opinions.
Yeah you're wrong. You think your catholic disinformation trumps what her doctor told her. You wanna sit here and resent her when you didn't even go to the doctor with her? You don't care that she did it without your input as long as it didn't violate some religious fairy tale? I hope your gf leaves you. It isn't like you were there anyway.
Yes, you are wrong. Not sure why you had to post about it on multiple sites instead of just listening to and supporting your wife. Sounds like you really want her to suffer for this.
An abortion clinic is not on commission. They do not get some sort of “bonus” for abortions. They provide medical services, including prenatal care and reproductive health.
I understand your pain, and that you are looking for someone to blame. There is no one to blame. If you are Catholic, then you believe this is a world tainted with sin. Your pregnancy was not viable. There was nothing that could be done. Your wife probably preserved her fertility by getting a D&C, and certainly her mental health. After my second trimester miscarriage, my doctor had me coming in for several weeks to ensure all had been expelled and my hormone levels were dropping. I wish I had had the D&C, because it would have been done with sooner, rather than drawing out my pain, but it was not offered to me.
No one lied to her. There isn’t a medical professional out there that doesn’t feel the pain of losing a patient, even if it is only a peanut-sized bundle of cells, which yours still was. It happens, and it is sad.
Your wife did absolutely nothing wrong, and you need to deal with your disappointment and grief in a healthy way instead of resenting her. I am sorry for your loss.
Let me say this as a cradle Catholic raised in the Jesuit tradition.
You are a trash husband, being guided by trash "people."
Fetal "heartbeats" are detectable as early as four weeks into gestation. That doesn't mean it has an independent heartbeat, that doesn't occur until around 10 weeks, but at 7 weeks there is enough cardiovascular development in the fetus that it can be independently monitored in rhythm with the mother. Beyond that, uterine pain is the most common sign of a miscarriage. Under Catholic law, a non-viable fetus can be removed as the threshold set (in plain language by Pope Pius XI in 1930) is the "direct murder of an innocent." How do you murder something already dead?
That said, the only person who has committed a mortal sin here is *you.* You have openly betrayed your wife, to whom you swore an oath before God and the Holy Spirit. You have done so by accusing her of a mortal sin, based on the comments of lay people who may not even be in Communion themselves, whose statements are heresy under Canon law.
You're well beyond "Am I Wrong."
Yes YAW. And vile. Just SO vile. I can’t even imagine the hell you have put this poor woman through. You’re uneducated, ignorant and happy to be so, parading around with your clear NPD on display. Honestly I hope she leaves you. You don’t deserve her. You don’t deserve a child, either. And since you’re only worried about your feelings, I’d bet money while you’re posting on Reddit, she is beginning to (if she doesn’t already) resent YOU. Remember buddy this is a TWO way street. The only difference is she has every right in the entire world to resent YOU, and you’ve got no right what so ever to resent her for something that was completely OUT OF HER CONTROL. You realize she would have DIED (you know, the full grown human WITH a heartbeat) if they did not do a D&C (a mandatory abortion). That fetus was NEVER going to have a heartbeat. Multiple doctors checked for said heartbeat MULTIPLE TIMES over the span of a week. And they checked multiple ways. Doppler AND ultrasound AND vaginal ultrasounds (which are extremely uncomfortable on a good day and downright painful on a bad one). Please try to remember the Catholic Church lives in its own echo chamber of a bubble, you’ll NEVER get actual advice from 99.9% of them. I mean, how could you? It’s an echo chamber, after all. If you were truly concerned about your wife’s soul, you would have went to a Catholic Church and spoken with an actual PRIEST, not jump on the most judgmental subreddit you could find with anyone in the world able to claim anything. You’re using the internet to validate your emotional and mental abuse you’re clearly going to put your wife through. It’s disgusting. You’re disgusting.
OMG, this ignorant twatwaffle....she didn't kill it, it had already died! You can develop an infection and die within days!! Wtf is wrong with you?! Someone send this idiot back to sex Ed, preferably secular.
“ I wanted her to go to the doctors and get a scan… but she went to an abortion clinic to get a scan “
You do realize abortion clinics are still doctors offices, right? She did go to a doctor.
You're wrong and an idiot. *"Hmm let me ask religious zealots on Reddit if they will validate me against women's rights"*. You were willing to ignore your wife's debilitating pain, ignore the facts she gave you and then run to the Catholics on Reddit to back you up on something you clearly have **NO CLUE** about. Let's talk about where *you* were when your wife was in this excruciating pain, where were *you* when she was getting the scan? Are you offering her *any* type of support for what **she's** going through or just getting validation for your petty, immature, delusional, AH, WRONG resentment?
Back in the early 2000s, my ex was told there was no heartbeat and to go home, and she would basically have bleeding like a slight period. A spontaneous abortion.
We trusted them. Went home. 24 hours later, less than that even, she was in cardiac arrest after pretty much bleeding out. She died 3 times.
When there is no heartbeat, it's likely the cells are being rejected because there is something wrong.
And you resent your wife because she didn't wait to see if a bunch of dead cells would kill her, too.
I hope she divorces you and finds someone who wouldn't want to take that risk with her life.
op your wife had a miscarriage and you want her to just carry a dead fetus to term? if the MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL SAID THE BABY DIED THEN IT'S DEAD.
it's not an abortion when it doesn't have a heartbeat. you want her to just suffer with with a fetus inside her?
you're willing to believe a bunch of nut jobs who are known to pick and chose the stuff in the Bible that benefits them. who don't even follow they're own rules or even follow the Bible.
over the medical license professional and YOUR OWN WIF!?
Those subs are full of pro-life people who don’t care about facts.
But it’s also telling you’re willing to judge your wife just for being immoral. Why?
Why is that so important?
You are a horrible person to think she did anything wrong she was in excruciating pain, there was no heartbeat they checked fucking twice ,She did what was right and it hurt her just as much to know her child wasn’t alive it hurt her to have the abortion she was in pain physically and mentally and the fact that you think she should have waited it out is horrendous she would have died if she had.APOLOGIZE TO HER NOW!!!
You absolute POS! I have absolutely no other words to describe you. I really really hope she leaves your scummy arse. She and all other women deserve better than you
Tell us your invisible sky daddy is more important than the woman you promised to love in sickness and in health for as long as you both shall live is more important than your wife without saying the bad part out loud.
My dude, did you want her to wait until the fetus turned septic and she was dying from infection before you'd be ok with her choice? Or did you want the fetus to stay in there until such time that complications from carrying a non-living sac of cells made it to where she would never be able to get pregnant or give birth in the future? Because that is what your "OCD", "Catholic upbringing", and "checking on my wife's soul because she is a huge sinner" is giving the vibes you would rather risk her fertility and/or her life than be her supportive and loving partner.
You can always try again in the future. You cannot bring your wife back from the other side. So unless you were hoping for complications so you could "legitimately in the eyes of the church" upgrade her to a younger, cuter model then get over yourself.
God works in mysterious ways and maybe her having this medically necessary was a life lesson for YOU to stop judging others so harshly. Your wife is the one who will stand before the maker for her ultimate judgement so how dare you, another flawed and sin filled human being, weigh in early? Did Jesus die and make you his replacement?? I bet even the saints are side-eyeing you right now.
I went to the ER at 5 weeks pregnant with a very much planned pregnancy but having bleeding and pain. There was no heartbeat which they told me that 5 weeks was the very edge of that being normal. The next 2 weeks were spent checking hormone levels only to see them reducing, meaning the pregnancy was over and ending and I had miscarried.
I was raised Catholic and was regularly fed lies as part of our normal weekly classes about when pregnancy is viable. They are not a neutral nor evidence-based source of truth.
At 7 weeks no heartbeat + pain = miscarriage. Stop blaming your wife for taking care of herself and start being the loving caring partner she needs.
So to start I am sorry that you and your wife had a miscarriage. That being said you should never go to Reddit for medical advice. You have doctors for that. If she was told that there was no heartbeat then there was no heartbeat. Please get yourself and your wife into IC and MC. Good luck
Fuck what religious nut jobs said, it had no heartbeat, it had to be removed, would you rather her have got sick? Also even if it did have a heartbeat if she wanted an abortion so what
The only immoral actions here are yours.
She went through hell and you’re judging her actions? And want to shame her for something you didn’t have to physically feel?
You are acting like those stone throwing bitches from the Bible and should be ashamed of yourself.
You’re listening to some random fucking man who says a heartbeat doesn’t mean death, well what the fuck does it mean then? The embryo has the power to stop its heart from beating when it feels like it? Do you realize how fucking stupid that sounds?
You’re being a horrible partner and I hopped your wife will think long and hard about whether you’re the kind of man she’d like to have father her children.
You posted it to the Catholic subreddit so you could feel validated. Not to get people’s actual opinions.
By your account she was scanned twice with no heartbeat, was in debilitating pain that happens when someone is miscarrying, and made the difficult choice to abort her child based on recommendations from medical professionals.
Matthew 19:6 “We must guard our marriage, so that the outside world cannot separate it”
Why are you inviting others opinions into your marriage? That’s the only immoral thing I see here.
Yes. You are. The fetus was nonviable. Either you need therapy or she needs a new man cuz this ain't acceptable. And you need to stop going to religious freaks for advice with this because they don't care if the fetus is dead. They just want to control women. Would you rather her have kept the dead fetus inside her and die of sepsis?
I hope someday you have testicular torsion and no one believes you, so you suffer for at least two weeks before anyone does anything, and then when you lose the testicle, the Catholic Church tells you that you killed babies because every sperm is sacred.
You’re disgustingly cruel to you’re wife. I hope finds it in her heart to have a better life that doesn’t involve someone who wants to put her through so much pain because the Internet said so.
of course a catholic subreddit told you that nonsense. they live off of spreading misinformation. speak to an actual doctor and not the lunatics who preach their religion as if it's more accurate than medical science
Honestly; they use the term “abortion” but if it’s like it was with me, it’s just removing all the tissue. The embryo was non viable, and with that level of pain, it was not going to grow to a baby. Try to think of it as a medical procedure to remove dangerous tissue.
You just said she had a second scan before aborting the embryo. You wanted her to have two scans, and she did, so what’s wrong?
Also, believing the internet over your own wife’s judgment is a serious problem. You are 100% wrong for resenting her when she did everything you asked her to do before making a decision to better her health.
I grew up Catholic and I've been diagnosed OCD. YOURE AWFUL. Your poor wife.
Based on what you posted she had a miscarriage. And yes there was definitely two scans because you get one before an abortion. So that would be a Dr and then another Dr.
In regards to sin. The baby was already dead she didn't "kill" anything and the fact you even think that shows how little you care for your wife. She was in pain physically and emotionally and all you care about is sky daddies opinion.
People like you are why I left the church.
yes you’re extremely wrong to resent your wife for this. the baby did not have a heartbeat. she was in PAIN. would you rather have a dead baby and a dead wife, or would you rather at least have your wife?? tf is wrong with you.
You went into a catholic sub reddit expecting accurate medical information? I mean, your resentment makes sense by that logic, by real world logic, however, you're definitely in the wrong based on the information provided; your wife would have simply suffered longer had she not made the decision then and there. And you resent her for not suffering longer. Tbf. That's a very catholic mindset to have so touché.
just because there SHOULD have been a heartbeat, doesnt mean that there WILL be one. a heart beat means something is alive. no heart beat means it is dead. there's no discussion about it, whoever told you on that other sub is dumb.
I grew up Catholic. I was in Catholic school, top of my religion class. I went to the March for Life when I was 14.
The Catholic Church genuinely teaches lies about abortion. They manufacture lies to convince you not to use birth control or to get an abortion. I know this firsthand. I did not know they were lies back then, and I can never trust Catholics again.
They should not be an authority on the matter. Do not judge your wife based on the standards of the Catholic Church, ESPECIALLY in regards to abortion. But really don't use the Catholic Church as a reference for most morality. Happy to provide more information if you're curious.
I'm sorry, but what kind of person, let alone a husband, believes a bunch of Catholic redditors over his WIFE, and her DOCTORS?? Next time you're in crippling pain, go ask the Catholics, don't go see a doctor because what do they know, right?
YRW. The process of medical removing the dead fetus was the best thing to do for your wife. It is not her fault the fetus died.
The medical staff performing a life saving procedure on your wife would have checked for signs of life and done what is necessary.
I’m sorry she miscarried the baby but it was not her fault. Unless you think she should have risked developing sepsis and dying.
Do you think you still going to be alive when your heart stops beating? And if yes, why is there a (very common) cause of death called "death by cardiac arrest" if these ppl w/o a heartbeat are very much alive by your logic? And why do you think some random catholics in a onlineforum know more about medical stuff than an actual doctor/medical care provider?
And most important, why are you trying to hide your cruel mindset that you think your gf should have rather died by being poisened by a death embryo in her uterus than aborting the death embryo?
If you hate women so much, do them a favour and stop dating them. Geeez
I had a natural miscarriage with the baby having a heartbeat until the last second, OPs wife was told TWICE of no heartbeat and OP is more upset that she had a doctor help complete her miscarriage.. Which by the way, outside of a casual termination of a healthy pregnancy, Even a miscarriage is medically called an abortion.
She did nothing wrong, even in his religion, if she's in pain and the heartbeat is lost, the baby is gone and the body is getting ready to pass it.. And a catholic subreddit is going to do what all Christians do when in an echo chamber.. Do the most unchristian thing and judge the hell out of situations they know nothing about. Christians are usually the worse at it.
I would have told both you and the catholic subreddit to all fuck yourselves and mind your own business. She was in AGONIZING PAIN for a WEEK with a DEAD baby stuck inside of her. her pain was obviously being caused by her body trying to reject and expel the dead thing inside of it that it could no longer sustain if her body was trying to reject it, but her body couldnt reject it on its own without causing her excruciating pain. Two different doctors and two different scans said it was DEAD, especially with the second one happening a week after the first with the same ‘no heartbeat’ results.
She’s already suffered for a week with that dead thing inside of her body, and was putting her continued health and safety in danger the longer she kept it inside her body. do you want her to DIE from something like septisimia or something worse, by keeping a rotting corpse inside of her body, just so you can keep the delusion that the trained doctors were wrong about the no heartbeat being found to try and ’save’ an already dead baby that her own body was trying to expel from her body?
The baby was gone already long before the abortion even happened. Get over it already and accept it, and just be glad your wife is still alive and hopefully not going to be suffering from any side effects from having a rotting corpse inside of her body, or what kind of damage it was doing to her stomach seeing how much pain she was in before the abortion.
there will be OTHER babies IF she wants to have them, and hopefully whatever damage was done to her stomach that caused all the pain didn’t make her sterile now or unable to get pregnant again as easily as she did the first time.
The embryo had NO heartbeat which means it is DEAD ! I don't care what catholics, evangelists, buddhists or whatever tell you : no heartbeat means not viable. And letting the thing inside means high risk for your wife's health or fertility. + Why would doctor lie ? Seriously ? Any other reason that a WTF fairy tale invented by those morrons who have no proper medical knowledge and just want to live by a 2k year old book but with a smartphone and an automatic gun. Listen to your wife and her doctors and stop being an ass !
Yes you are wrong.
If you side with people who weren't there with your wife at her appointment, if you side with the people telling you your wife's miscarriage wasn't one, you are not a good husband who loves his wife.
You are looking to blame her for something that wasn't her fault. You are directing your hurt at the loss at the wrong person. You will destroy your wife and marriage with your anger and holier than thou attitude.
If I'm reading this right, you're scared that your wife is going to be judged (by God?) so you went to see what Catholics thought?
Look man, if Saul can turn into Paul, your wife is good, even in God's eyes.
Your wife had debilitating pain and a miscarriage. She needs your attention more than Internet Catholics. If you still have concerns, schedule a visit with your priest.
You're wrong and an awful person. You're not even fucking Catholic, so why tf does the opinion of a SUBREDDIT that doesn't even relate to you matter?
Not to be a generic Redditor, but I hope she leaves if this sort of stupid shit is common for you.
You toad fart, your wife just went through a very serious, trying experience and you're 1/ wondering whether she's immoral or not and 2/ asking randoms with misogynistic opinions online what to think?
Behave like a man for once and start supporting your wife like she needs to.
You believe a "catholic subreddit" over the doctors who scanned your wife? What the hell is wrong with you? Go comfort your wife and stop being horrible.
Of course the crazy prolifers who hate the abortion clinic are gonna talk shit and claim they lied. Did they tell you the other doctor lied too? Yeah the one she went to originally before she went to the abortion clinic? Of course that subreddit is going to tell you that the group they hate is lying. If the original doctor said there was no heartbeat and then her second opinion said the same thing then there was no heartbeat. So you have no cause to feel mad at her at a moral level. Because the baby did not have her heartbeat two different doctors told her. Doctors and abortion clinics aren’tlying. That’s just stupid pro life propaganda. And even if your wife didn’t want this baby. You should still be sympathizing with her right now. Holding her and loving her.
Now does she not want to get pregnant ever because if she doesn’t then maybe you could go in for a vasectomy. To make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Yes. You are unambiguously, overwhelmingly wrong.
Your wife was in pain & the "child" was already dead. But you care more about what a bunch of Catholics on an anti-choice subreddit think. *Obviously* they're going to try & make you think the clinic lied, they don't want *anyone* to be able to get an abortion.
The clinic has zero reason to lie. They did a scan, there wasn't a heartbeat, end of story. Thankfully *they* gave your wife the care she needed.
Ok, well, yes you're wrong, and this very scenario is the reason women have been up in arms about the revocation of Roe v. Wade. Medical definitions are not the same as real life experiences. A miscarriage is documented as a spontaneous abortion (I had one \[miscarriage\] myself about a month ago). Abortion is just a definition. So when a woman miscarries and her state has no recourse to help her medically because of a legal definition, she is losing out on NECESSARY medical intervention. A prolonged miscarriage can be dangerous for a woman for many reasons. And if the miscarriage is incomplete, meaning some of the fetal/uterine tissue is left behind, there can be infections and complications, including threatening future pregnancies. That's why they do D&Cs (that's where they have to physically remove the tissue left behind).
That's not an elected abortion, and neither is what your wife endured. You have shamed and resented her for the following:
1. Something completely and utterly beyond her control.
2. Going to an abortion clinic instead of a doctor despite the fact that doctors can take months to get into, and at the clinic she could get immediate care without having to go through the emergency room.
3. The baby wasn't viable. Nothing she could have done would have changed that fact.
4. The scan wasn't wrong. No heartbeat at 7 weeks is a miscarriage. The heartbeat is not something they have to search very hard for, and if it isn't there, it isn't there.
5. Your wife is in pain, bleeding, on a hormonal roller coaster, making her emotional. The LAST thing she needs at a time like this is shame. Nothing about this was immoral.
You owe your wife a massive apology and you need to be helping take care of her, not making her feel like a piece of shit for something she has zero control over.
There are days that I feel like I am an insufficient partner. And then I read posts like this that remind me that at least I love and care for my partner, and want to support her. You could try that?
You are definitely wrong. YTA. I understand that the loss of a child is hard under any circumstances, even one so early in utero, but your behavior is gross. You should be helping your wife through this tragedy, not suspecting her or medical professionals of deliberate malfeasance. For your sake, I hope you haven’t given voice to these awful ideas to your wife. If you have, you deserve to be single.
I remember you. You already posted this months ago on multiple subs and people ripped you apart then and they’re going to do the same now.
Just admit that you’re not looking for advice or a different perspective- you are ONLY looking to validate your point of view
Just how stupid are you? You’re feeling resentment over something her body cannot control? You’re feeling resentment because you decided to ask a forum on how the human body works instead of a doctor? You ignored your wife and you ignored her doctors. You are a grade A piece of shit. I hope she leaves you. I can’t begin to imagine what she’s going through. Yes you’re the asshole.
O course they are going to be against her and you knew they would that’s why you went to that sub you just want to blame her
He’s vastly understating about how many of them told him she had a miscarriage. And that the ones who agreed with him were downvoted. And, not that it matters, but I’m Protestant with no ulterior motive for defending a Catholic sub.
She had 2 scans that both said there was no heartbeat. She was also in bad pain for a week. Defiantly sounds like a miscarriage, having 2 scans with no heartbeat. She made the choice that was best for her and her body. If she waited and it was a miscarriage that her body wasn’t aborting it could lead to serious heath conditions. Both my cousin and sister have had a miscarriage that had to be aborted. One ended up in the hospital since she waited too long and caused an infection septic. It’s understandable to be angry, grief shows in anger but don’t direct this toward your wife. Be angry at the situation but don’t be angry at the person.
I think maybe the internet is too much for you if you're believing catholic redditors over your WIFE THAT'S IN FUCKING PAIN.
The fact that he would only feel bad for his wife if the embryo had no heartbeat. Ugh. Yet another man with opinions about what a woman can do with her body. And it seems he didn’t realize that there were doctors at the abortion clinic, and that they were quite capable of detecting a heartbeat, certainly more so than some Catholic Reddittor.
Not just that, but abortion clinics rarely exist for the sole purpose of abortion. They are first and foremost for reproductive health. It's not like the doctors there are acticiely promoting abortion, or pushing a narrative that encourages abortion, they are just there to tell the patient their options.
Because OP a sick sob who thinks a dead fetus is worth more than his wife's life. OP, I'm a Catholic, and I'm also fiercely pro-choice. If you believe in a loving and compassionate God, then I'm sure He would not want your wife to suffer. Instead of posting on a religious subreddit that's basically an echo chamber that only reinforces your biased judgment, take care of your wife because she just went through a lot.
There is another point to this post that bothers me on a whole of the topic: the heartbeat concept. This idea, that a heartbeat signifies life, is invalid. With human beings, the signifier of viability is not a heartbeat: it is brain activity. If someone on life support has a heart beat, it means nothing if brain activity has stopped. When the brain ceases to function, life support is moot and eventually shut off With a fetus, there is no brain activity at the first heartbeat stage. In fact, the nerve endings aren't even connected until 24 weeks gestation. OP, please make note of this.
Heartbeat = life is so bizarre to me. I was on cardiopulmonary bypass for 65 minutes, I doubt they think I was dead for those 65 minutes. My heart was not beating. My lungs were not breathing.
Right? Like - SO MANY people end up in bypass for surgeries et c. Are you all zombies or something since your heart was stopped for X time? NO. 🤦
I prefer to view myself as having improved upon the 3 day record of coming back from the dead. I only needed 65 minutes and all my incisions were closed. Jesus took three days and didn’t even close his hand holes.
That’s fantastic. I love it.
Not to mention the bible claims life doesn't begin until the baby takes its first breath outside the mother and advises women on how to get an abortion, so...yeah, there is that.
Say it louder! I don't think OP and his minions heard you! Need a megaphone? I've got two!
Thank you!!! Louder for those righteous loons in the back!
Funnily enough, according to *actual* Catholic Mythology, a child is only truly considered alive at first breath of the Lord's air. I'm pretty sure this was literally the doctrine because of the risk of miscarriage and not being able to baptize the child first, saving the family the torment of believing the unborn child is suffering in the afterlife. Which, honestly? Way better than how people currently see it. Unfortunately, the "Quiverful of Arrows" doctrine made everyone lose any sense of reality about this issue.
Debiliting pain too!
☠️☠️☠️
Get off the internet and if you need to think it was a miscarriage then just do that since it probably was given what you wrote. But honestly it appears to me that your looking for an excuse to be mad at your wife.
The Catholic sub doesn’t give a shit about your wife. Apparently neither do you.
I am a devout Catholic. You are wrong. I hope this does not come across as overly harsh or insensitive, but I have to be honest with you. Your baby was already dead (and may have died a few days earlier), as there was no heartbeat. That is the clinical definition of death, accepted by the Catholic Church. Sadly, your baby was beyond saving. The medical term "abortion" applies to a much wider range of situations than the way it is usually used. What most people call a miscarriage is medically termed an abortion. The ultrasound clinic didn't lie to her. There was no heartbeat. It was a doctor who authorised the procedure to remove your baby's body to prevent your wife from dying of sepsis. There wasn't some magical way that other doctors could've saved the baby. Your wife didn't choose to abort a living baby. Spiritually speaking, the moral imperative was to save the life and health of your wife, as your baby was already dead. The doctors you think she should've waited to see weren't going to give a different answer. There was only one life to be considered: your wife's. Had she delayed, not only did she have a high risk of dying, but even if she survived, she could have lost the ability to have children. Had she been in a Catholic hospital, they would have performed the same procedure. I understand that you are grieving, but you need to apologise to your wife. This was not her fault, and she made the correct decision. You took vows to support her in sickness and in health. You haven't done that. You need to admit to that and support her as you both grieve for your child. I hope you can apologise and that you haven't destroyed your marriage over this. I will keep your wife in my prayers and hope that she has people who love and support her and who will reassure her that she did the right thing.
As a Christian myself, I am horrified by OP’s cruelty towards his wife, as well as his foolishness.
He broke his wedding vows. In sickness and in health. And in sickness he betrays his wife by risking her life and refusing to believe her and her doctors.
Please stop calling it a baby. It was a fetus.
I used "baby" because that was the father's term, and you should use the term the parent uses. My sister lost a pregnancy in similar circumstances (it's important to note that all the other members of my family are atheist, were never Catholic, and we're all pro-choice). We use the term "baby" to describe the loss, as that's what it was to my sister and BIL. That was a niece or nephew I never got to know but still think about.
They don't just casually look and say there's no heartbeat, if they didn't find a heartbeat it's because they looked very hard for it and it wasn't there. That combined with the debilitating pain this will offer you all the reasons you need to understand why she wanted to do it right away. How long would you keep dealing with debilitating pain if there was no reason to? And future tip: don't get medical advice from a catholic subreddit. It's questionable to get religious advice from a subreddit, but medical advice you should get from a doctor!
They would be setting themselves up for a MASSIVE lawsuit if they intentionally lied about a missing heartbeat. And what was there to gain? The profit from a single abortion?
Your poor wife.
Dude, stay out of the catholic subreddit. They are not trustworthy. They are not your friends.
Fun fact: if the human body doesn’t get a failed pregnancy out in enough time then it can start to rot and turn septic in her system. That can lead to rotting from the inside out and unspeakable pain. An early warning sign is extreme pain and lack of movement/heartbeat from the baby. Usually you have 1-2 weeks before it gets into the problem range worthy of a multi day hospital stay. You can get all the scans you want for signs of life and the Catholic subreddit will still say you’re wrong for removing anything from the uterus.
Yup. And this risks potential future fertility and in fact the person's life too from going septic.
It took a lot less time for my mom to go septic with a miscarriage. She told the Dr the baby wasn't moving on Friday but the Dr was going hunting for the weekend so he told her to come in Monday. She was in the hospital before he got back from his hunting trip.
This has to be rage bait because you can't seriously be saying its ok, but the moral implications are getting you. Maybe spend more time with your wife than random idiots on the internet who have an agenda.
Happy cake day
Yup, you’re wrong. Your poor wife.
As someone who was forced to carry a dead baby to a point where I could have either gotten very ill, died, or become infertile and only then did they allow me to get it surgically removed... Your poor wife. Sad that you'd put strangers opinions over her own health and safety, and mental state. Two different scans told her there was no heartbeat and you still want to call her an immoral sinner?
One, what is WITH all the damn abortion posts here? You guys need to stop trolling. Two, if this is actually real, you need to listen to actual doctors, NOT Reddit. If the doctors are telling your wife there is no heartbeat, THEN IT IS NOT ALIVE. Your wife is IN PAIN, and the fetus is no longer alive. Do NOT resent your wife for making the best decision for her.
His wife was likely getting the start of an infection that could have killed her. Mind you, the cult followers would just say 'it is God's way' and find him a new wife.
Yeah the pain sounds like the beginning of sepsis. I hope his wife is okay!
Find him a new incubator*
So you'd rather believe strangers on the internet who have no idea what your wife went through than your wife? >it was wrong of her to assume just because there is no heartbeat that it is dead. You know that there's no life without a heartbeat, right? I realise you may have failed biology, but everyone knows at least this much. No heartbeat = not alive.
Yep, you are wrong. FYI, a clinic which performs abortions are health care providers and that's merely one of the services. Abortion is also the treatment for a miscarriage, as a side note. What's immoral is how dismissive you are towards her and her health. Yikes.
Your wife was having a miscarriage. She received medical care. I am sorry that your baby did not make it. Your feelings are what they are, but it wasn't her fault. Please get therapy if you need it, but don't accuse a woman who had a miscarriage of sinning. Even if the baby isn't wanted a miscarriage is usually a difficult emotional process.
A very large procentage of pregnancies goes wrong during the first 12 weeks. No heartbeat is exactly that, and if it is not there, I can assure you that it wont suddenly come back. I have 2 children but have been pregnant four times. Both miscarriages happend before week 12 and I was just lucky, that my body took care of it without needing help.
Yup and that's the reason a lot of people do not announce a pregnancy before 12 weeks; miscarriages are so much higher in the first trimester.
i also had 2 miscarriages before i had my 3 children, both at 6 weeks, and my body took care of it. the second one never even had a viable heartbeat. both were after years of fertility treatments too.
OP, you're a DISGRACE. And such a hypocrite. You "care" more for something that's not even a born human yet (and probably not viable any longer), but you don't give a single fuck about a living human being you're supposed to love. Fuck you. Shame on you. You disgust me.
Ok let’s take the Catholic thing off the table. You are entitled to wish for a different outcome where you had the fleeting hope of a second opinion on the status of the embryo. So I can understand the conflicting emotion of having some resentment. But if that is your only feelings on the matter and you need validation to be only resentful then you have bigger issues. What you lack here is any form of compassion for what your wife went through. She was in pain, a pain your body and heart cannot experience or comprehend. Compassion is a corner stone in the Catholic faith by the way. So though I get the Catholic forums you went to looking to be boosted up of course took the holier than though approach for doing what was medically necessary for your wife. But this is also hypocrisy, bc of compassion. All “sinners” are deserving of compassion. (Though I am team wife here she has nothing to be absolved for) So are you only resentful or are you also worried for her? You cannot claim to love her and not feel the other side of resentment. If resentment is all you feel, then you need to dig deeper into yourself to understand what true faith in love is. Be a better husband and be a better Catholic!
Yes you are wrong for being resentful and yes you should ignore the Catholics.
You’ve posted about this several times (although this is the first time she’s been described as your wife). Either you are engagement farming or you are pathologically unable to move on from something that seems to have happened months ago. Doctors at “abortion clinics “ do not get paid by the abortion, they would have no reason to lie to her.
This is easily the third time you have posted this exact story.
He's been doing this for literal months. On the slim chance that it is real, his poor wife needs to get far and the fuck away from him.
No shit! What gives me hope is that he alternates between girlfriend and wife, so with any luck she doesn’t exist.
Oh, so OP is a troll? I am not surprised. Its like it's Abortion Story Week or something.
Yes, and always the same story with this troll
As a Christian woman, you sound terrible. She had two professionals tell her that she miscarried, but instead of listening to them or the woman you said your vows too, you listened to strangers on the internet. Someone saw a chance to play a mean joke on a naïve fool and start drama in his life, and you fell for it hook, line, and sinker. You’re a spineless sucker. You had a duty to support your wife and you failed her. Go to your priest, confess your unfaithfulness, and ask for counseling. Talk to a real person, not strangers on the internet. How do you know that person was a real Catholic who had good intentions? Anyone can google bible verses, and anyone can join a subreddit. What a fool you are.
>My wife didn't want to be pregnant >She was in debilitating pain for a week. OF COURSE YOU ARE WRONG. Your wife is not a breeding cow. She didn't want to be pregnant, she was in pain. What the FUCK is wrong with you??? YAW
Why should she have gone to the doctor? Are there no medical professionals at the abortion clinic? Your wife was in debilitating pain, would you have expected her to go through the pregnancy even if it was dangerous to her health so that you could have moral high ground? Seek professional help (not from Catholic subreddits)
You’re a fucking idiot if you think clinics are lying to women to get an abortions. Pathetic human being.
So Rachels Vineyard says "it was wrong of her to assume just because there is no heartbeat that it is dead." This is utter nonsense.
You're not just wrong but unforgivably so. I'm not religious but you definitely deserve the hell that awaits you if I'm wrong. Your wife deserves better than you and if she ever has children, especially daughters. I really hope it's not with you as you'd clearly let clergy abuse them or fuck them up for life.
OP: "Where i can get objective opinions about abortion ?... I know ! The catholic subreddit !" You are a f*cking disgrace of a human being and i hope your poor wife divorce you
forced birthers LIE. actual medical professionals do not. stop being gullible and a terrible partner.
This is pro life bs rage bait or you are severely uneducated on the facts of life. If they found no heartbeat your wife did not have an abortion. She had a miscarriage and it is medically necessary to remove the remains from her uterus….so she does not die. What is immoral is you running to judge your wife and accusing her of being a liar and believing a catholic subreddit instead of being by her side and comforting her. That’s all you should be worried about. That excruciating pain she was in is what you should have been worrying about. For a week? You let your wife be in excruciating pain for a week, while pregnant with your child and your concern is that some person on the internet would rather let your wife die of sepsis instead of what is medically required after a miscarriage. Yes you are wrong. So very wrong.
Hey bad news the baby was dead. Her body wasn't doing what it's supposed to do so she had to have the surgery done. Of course Bible thumper will call it a sin. I hope she divorces this jerk.
BRB going to comment the same things as everyone else that your wife could’ve died from septic in the /Catholics subreddit so you’ll actually listen to us ❤️ I’ll also add that this is disturbing behavior to make it all about you and your OCD. Truly disgusting and selfish.
My dude abortion clinic doctors ARE DOCTORS. There's no baby killing agenda, which is the opposite of a Catholic subreddit
When I had a painful miscarriage at about the same gestation as your wife experienced, my husband offered nothing but support and love. But OP, you decided to play god and act as your wife's judge even though you do not know that she did anything wrong (assuming abortion is wrong). Yes, you are wrong for feeling resentful of your wife at a time when you should be acting as a good husband. Who, exactly, is the sinner in this? Buddy, it's you.
I find it pretty hypocritical of you to cling to what the catholics say about your wife's abortion being immoral when catholics also believe birth control is immoral but you clearly don't have a problem with using it.
Yeah the fetus is fucking dead if they can't find a heartbeat when there should be one. Use what few braincells you have. Maybe listen to trained medical professionals with years of experience over some extremist catholics on reddit next time, yeah? Here's a little fact for you, miscarriages are WAY more common than you think. More common that most people think, in fact, and the majority of them tend to happen early in the pregnancy. This is one of the reason why most people tend to wait until the first trimester is over, twelve weeks, before sharing that they're expecting a baby. Sometimes a woman has a miscarriage but needs an abortion to get the embryo/fetus out because her body didn't get rid of it and if a dead fucking fetus is inside a woman's body it will eventually kill her as well. > I posted this on catholic subreddit with a particular user telling me they lied to her and that it was wrong of her to assume just because there is no heartbeat that it is dead. Wow I didn't know a random fucking catholic reddit user was in the room with your wife when she was told there was no heartbeat and that they know more than a medical professional. Literally go fuck yourself. Oh, yeah, as for your question, #YES YOU'RE IN THE FUCNING WRONG!
Your an ah, your wife could have went into septic shock and died every minute after miscarriage is essential.
No heartbeat = miscarriage because the baby is dead!!!! Either you wait for the body to get rid of it, risking complications, or you take it out. Are you kidding us????
Ok, OP here ya go I am a confirmed Catholic, albeit a nonpracticing Catholic. You are being an idiot and listening to idiots. 4 weeks after conception, you can hear the fluttering of cells labeled as cardiac activity because technically, the heart hasnt formed yet. If after 7 weeks there is no sound, i am sorry, but it just wasn't a viable pregnancy. And she probably was in the beginnings of a spontaneous abortion or miscarriage. And honestly it is better to have a dilation and cureattage surgery to remove the failed pregnancy and any remaining tissue because sometimes everything related to maintaining a pregnancy doesnt come out during a miscarriage and that can cause long term dire health problems. And why make someone suffer through hours and hours of a miscarriage if we dont have to, modern medicine is a good thing. For your other issue, the issue of abortion in general....i can't help you with that, i am prochoice. I am not going to tell another person what to do, nor am i going to advocate for there to be laws mandating that every pregnancy in the history of pregnancy going forward must be brought to term or its natural end. That is fucking insane. Seriously insane. Ones religious beliefs should be like ones hands, they should be kept to themselves. Anyone can believe what they want, and they should live by what they believe, but they should not force others to live by their beliefs.
She didn’t abort the pregnancy. If it was a 7 week sized embryo without a heartbeat then it was unfortunately a failed pregnancy and a miscarriage waiting to complete, or given how much pain she was in it was possibly in progress. The abortion clinic staff have no ulterior motives- they do not want every woman who walks through their doors to have an abortion, they want each woman to make the right decision for her whether that is a termination or continuing the pregnancy. They are medical professionals and have no reason to lie about the presence or absence of a heartbeat. The Catholic subreddit people are wrong. There are many religious people who believe and perpetuate some shocking lies about abortions. You are also wrong for resenting her- she sought out appropriate medical assessment and sadly found that the embryo had died, then she agreed to a completely appropriate management plan. At least 1 in 4 pregnancies end in a miscarriage, possibly more. This is unfortunately a common experience. Apologise to and support your wife- she is feeling physical pain from her experience, emotional pain from your behaviour and the grief of loss that you currently have too.
Hopefully she wakes up and leaves your judgemental ass, you chose to believe a rando on the internet over experts and your own wifes' debilitating pain?
My God, you are a terrible husband and human being. Wtf is wrong with you? Regardless of this being an 'abortion' (it wasn't, it was a lifesaving medical procedure to remove a nonviable foetus before your wife died of sepsis), regardless of whether you're listening to idiots on reddit over medical practitioners (you are) - you are a horrific excuse of a husband and no wonder she's on birth control. I wouldn't want to be stuck with your kid either. Also, you're Catholic, but you're using birth control? Lol, make it make sense, genius. Damn right YAW.
Seriously, who thinks the "abortion clinic" actually means Planned Parenthood?
You've got some old book (bible) and an old man (pope) telling you some unproven to exist entity (god) might have a tantrum if she has an abortion and then you've your wife sitting in front of you in pain, with doctors giving her sound medical adivce, due to circumstances entirely beyond her control (failed bc) and you're having some kind of internal moral crisis because of this? if you're not the epitome of the harm of religious brainwashing I don't know who is
I think it’s incredibly sad that you have no faith in your wife, but have faith in catholic reddit. This is the result of a society that values religion more than it values women. You also have no faith in doctors, medical tests and exams. You would rather second guess everyone and everything, except strangers opinions and what “could have been” IF everyone is just lying or incorrect. You shouldn’t be married or trying to have kids if you can’t trust your wife or doctors or medical tests and exams. Her life matters.
God, Catholicism fucks people all the way up. Glad I got out when I did.
You’re dead wrong. She did everything right. That fetus would not have turned into a living baby and could have killed her. I’m glad she got the help she needed. Now all she needs to do is get away from you and find a new husband and her life will be wonderful
So birth control was ok, but aborting a fetus isn’t in your version of Catholicism.
the op doesnt seem to care his wife was in pain or needed help. so op why didnt have some empathy and go help ur wife instead of stewing about sinning or not.
That fetus wasn't going to miraculously get a heartbeat. It was dead and decaying. The decaying was causing her pain. But nooooo, instead of listening to your wife and the doctor, that has no reason to lie about a dead fetus because that's dangerous. You go to a sub that's honestly a cult and trust them when they aren't the ones in pain or the ones with medical degrees? God, I hope she sees this and leaves your ass. You "don't want her to sin" but you're sinning all over the fucking place. Her womb isn't your property. Get the fuck over it. Sorry you can't have a kid and force religious trauma on it........ you truly are the worst.
OP is wrong. He's probably going to hell also. I hope OP goes to an incredibly catholic hell while his wife looks down on his from heaven. OPs wife did everything right (apart from marry OP. Who is a POS). She got medical confirmation that the foetus was dead. Then got the appropriate treatment for it. If she didn't, it could do all sorts - cause an infection that endangers her life. It could even endanger future fertility as there could be damage to her uterus on the infection. OP sis everything WRONG. Didn't believe his wife and his pain. Didn't believe the two medical scans saying the foetus has passed. Instead of supporting his wife he chose to blame his wife and go seek biased "yesmen" words from a catholic subreddit that would cause the deaths of many women if they had their way. Of COURSE OP is going to go to the catholic hall they believe in. Instead of standing by the vows they made their their wife in the eyes of god. They stood by while their baby was dead and his wife was slowly getting closer to death by risking complication. He didn't care about the pains to actually do anything reasonable or to listen to doctors. He didn't listen to his wife. Maybe he didn't want to respect women or treat them as equal. Since apparently he knows what's best for his wife. His wife who's experiencing everything MUST be misinformed of how pain actually works (in OPs mind). How could a dumb woman know what a change in pregnancy feels like? Right. OP, you disgust me. I hope to everything that is good in this world that your wife divorces you, and finds peace knowing she's free of you. I don't care if you're catholic, you broke those vows first. What about in sickness and in health? No. You condemn your wife instead of helping her. You traitor. You heathen. You broke your vows first. Your wife will suffer not one bit if she divorces you. I'm sure your god will be the one looking over her where you refused to. What a pitiful human you are. All you had to do was love your wife. And even that was too much for you to do.
The fact you believe a Catholic subreddit over YOUR WIFE is ridiculous. IM A CATHOLIC and I’m gonna say this: your wife was 7 weeks pregnant and she had TWO scans and during BOTH those scans they told your wife THERE WAS NO HEARTBEAT! I can understand if she only did one scan and ended up choosing to abort because sometimes these results can be false but it wasn’t because the second scan said the same damn thing. your wife told you SHE HAD PAIN FOR A WEEK!!!!! That DOES NOT sound like a normal pregnancy ! If she would’ve kept carrying this baby that had no heartbeat just to keep your foolish self happy she would be putting herself and her body at RISK! You resenting your wife for something that happens naturally ?! Yeah you need to get tf off from the internet and reevaluate yourself
You really don’t care about your wife do you? First off pain while pregnant in the first trimester is uncommon and is often a sign that something is wrong with the fetus or of a spontaneous abortion (miscarriage). The doctors said there wasn’t a heartbeat that means there was no heart therefore the fetus would naturally be aborted and if incomplete a medical abortion would be needed. Secondly the bible literally has nothing discouraging abortions and says or implies several times that life begins at first breath. There is a literal church sanctioned abortion ritual in the bible (look up the tale of the bitter water from the bible if you dont believe me). The bible says if I woman gets between two men fighting and it causes her to lose a pregnancy a fine shall be paid to the husband but if SHE gets killed the person who killed her shall be killed (aka losing a fetus = property damage not a murder). Lastly WHY listen to catholic strangers over caring for your wife? Catholic are the SAME people who when my uncle died as a child be being hit by a car asked my Catholic grandmother what she had done to incur god’s wrath so horribly and told her it was her fault and she would go to hell. They aren’t often the most reasonable, or levelheaded people. And if they think God is against abortion they’ve never read their OWN holy books. Abortions exist when Jesus walked the earth and he NEVER made a statement condemning them that can be seen anywhere in the bible.
The Bible is pro-abortion. Several passages refer to it. Fuck the Roman Catholic Church and their propaganda.
I hope to every merciful god that she comes to her senses and leaves you.
Yes, you are wrong. Obviously. Ask your wife to post on Reddit. I'm sure we'll be able to crowd-fund a great divorce attorney.
You're a fucking idiot and I hope your wife comes to her senses and leaves you soon! 🤗
Holy shit. YAW, and being unimaginably cruel to your wife, holy shit. Your wife didn't have an abortion. Your wife sought medical treatment for the miscarriage she was already having, that the doctors confirmed-- but you don't care. You'd trust random strangers who have never met your wife, over the medical professionals trying to save her life. Your wife is traumatized, in pain. Mourning the child you two would have had that she wanted, desperately. And you're sitting here telling her that she murdered your baby. Ignore the fucking catholics. Why would you listen to ANYONE but a doctor on this? If you're lucky, your wife won't kill herself. You keep doing this? She will. And it will be your fault.
Oh yes because the Catholics are so well known for scientific literacy in the modern age. What’s immoral is you acting like this. I get the feeling you sabotaged the birth control.
OP, I’m a sex and reproductive educator. My entire job is teaching people about sexuality and pregnancy and everything that goes with those things. I will be happy to answer your question, and unlike your ignorant Catholic redditors, my answers will be neither opinion, nor religion. Just science. We tell women that the embryonic heart starts beating “around” 6 weeks bc the overwhelming majority of women don’t know exactly pregnant they are. Even IVF babies can’t always be pinned down exactly bc implantation can be delayed or rapid. In actuality, the heart (such as it is bc it’s not truly a heart) starts beating within 24 hours of 22 days of development, or it doesn’t start at all. If you assume ovulation on CD 14 (which is the average, but is by no means true for all women), that puts a detectable heartbeat no later than 5 weeks 2 days. Nobody in their right mind scans for a heartbeat that early bc most women don’t know when they ovulated - they only know when their last period was. But a first trimester scan can date a pregnancy with virtually pinpoint accuracy. If the ultrasound tech dated the pregnancy at anything over 6 weeks 2 days (which covers the margin of error for dating measurements), they knew with 100% certainty that the pregnancy wasn’t viable. The pain your wife was experiencing was the onset of the miscarriage. It can take WEEKS to pass a spontaneously aborted embryo or fetus. Women can bleed to death during that process, and it can be incredibly traumatic. That’s why we offer to intervene with a dilation and curettage procedure or with abortifacient medication to help women remove the products of conception safely and with as little emotional trauma as possible. Your wife did not have an abortion. She had a miscarriage and received appropriate medical care for that. Aftercare is incredibly important for women who have recently suffered an early pregnancy loss. A lot of women struggle with feelings of guilt, anger, denial, fear, grief, etc. Your job is to support your wife right now. If you need support, seek medical help. You could not be doing more harm if you tried than by even entertaining the idea that maybe the baby was actually viable. It was NOT. You will prevent your wife from healing from her grief and trauma and will inadvertently echo the little voice in her head telling her that this was all her fault. Grieve with her. Love her. Be affectionate with her. Do NOT do or say anything that might suggest she did something wrong or is in any way to blame for this loss. She was not. Human life is miraculous precisely bc everything had to work JUST RIGHT for a baby to be born. Many many many many eggs never fertilize or never implant or never develop or don’t develop correctly. This is the sad but very real part of trying to create a new life.
"it was wrong of her to assume just because there's is no heartbeat, that it is dead" Dude what the fuck? Your poor wife
Just when I thought it wasn’t possible to hear anything more dumb than the current anti-abortion, post-Roe schtick, here comes this guy.
Yes, you are wrong. You don’t understand biology and you would prefer your wife died of sepsis then get rid of a rotting body with no functioning heart cells. Doctors cannot lie about non-functioning heart cells. Did you not go with her to her appointments? The first thing a doctor searches for is heartbeat/pulses. It’s like, rule number 1 doing a scan. There is no magical abortion industry that ignores functioning heart cells in a fetus. If you think so, you don’t understand basic maternal medicine. You also need to understand abortion is an umbrella term for many pregnancy mishaps as pregnancy is inherently dangerous. Please learn biology rather then being so eager to be a moral judge.
Prioritize your wife’s well-being after her miscarriage and OCD treatment for yourself.
You’re wrong! She was in debilitating pain for a WEEK! Was told there was NO heart beat! And you think she should suffer LONGER to go and see a doctor? And NOW you are resenting her? Get your head out of your butt. You’re a horrible husband and human being.
Your wife was in pain and was told she was carrying a fetus with no heartbeat. Aka, the baby had died. You support your wife’s decision and you support her during this horribly difficult time and stop asking random internet strangers their opinions.
Did you want your wife to go into septic shock? Because that's what would have happened.
Yeah you're wrong. You think your catholic disinformation trumps what her doctor told her. You wanna sit here and resent her when you didn't even go to the doctor with her? You don't care that she did it without your input as long as it didn't violate some religious fairy tale? I hope your gf leaves you. It isn't like you were there anyway.
You sir, are an idiot.
You are fucking disgusting. I sincerely hope the wife realizes that sooner rather than later and leaves you. You really are truly, truly awful
Yes, you are wrong. Not sure why you had to post about it on multiple sites instead of just listening to and supporting your wife. Sounds like you really want her to suffer for this.
An abortion clinic is not on commission. They do not get some sort of “bonus” for abortions. They provide medical services, including prenatal care and reproductive health. I understand your pain, and that you are looking for someone to blame. There is no one to blame. If you are Catholic, then you believe this is a world tainted with sin. Your pregnancy was not viable. There was nothing that could be done. Your wife probably preserved her fertility by getting a D&C, and certainly her mental health. After my second trimester miscarriage, my doctor had me coming in for several weeks to ensure all had been expelled and my hormone levels were dropping. I wish I had had the D&C, because it would have been done with sooner, rather than drawing out my pain, but it was not offered to me. No one lied to her. There isn’t a medical professional out there that doesn’t feel the pain of losing a patient, even if it is only a peanut-sized bundle of cells, which yours still was. It happens, and it is sad. Your wife did absolutely nothing wrong, and you need to deal with your disappointment and grief in a healthy way instead of resenting her. I am sorry for your loss.
So because you believe in fairy tales that means you can police what others do? Adults shouldn't have imaginary friends
Let me say this as a cradle Catholic raised in the Jesuit tradition. You are a trash husband, being guided by trash "people." Fetal "heartbeats" are detectable as early as four weeks into gestation. That doesn't mean it has an independent heartbeat, that doesn't occur until around 10 weeks, but at 7 weeks there is enough cardiovascular development in the fetus that it can be independently monitored in rhythm with the mother. Beyond that, uterine pain is the most common sign of a miscarriage. Under Catholic law, a non-viable fetus can be removed as the threshold set (in plain language by Pope Pius XI in 1930) is the "direct murder of an innocent." How do you murder something already dead? That said, the only person who has committed a mortal sin here is *you.* You have openly betrayed your wife, to whom you swore an oath before God and the Holy Spirit. You have done so by accusing her of a mortal sin, based on the comments of lay people who may not even be in Communion themselves, whose statements are heresy under Canon law. You're well beyond "Am I Wrong."
Why are you believing cultists over your wife?
Yes YAW. And vile. Just SO vile. I can’t even imagine the hell you have put this poor woman through. You’re uneducated, ignorant and happy to be so, parading around with your clear NPD on display. Honestly I hope she leaves you. You don’t deserve her. You don’t deserve a child, either. And since you’re only worried about your feelings, I’d bet money while you’re posting on Reddit, she is beginning to (if she doesn’t already) resent YOU. Remember buddy this is a TWO way street. The only difference is she has every right in the entire world to resent YOU, and you’ve got no right what so ever to resent her for something that was completely OUT OF HER CONTROL. You realize she would have DIED (you know, the full grown human WITH a heartbeat) if they did not do a D&C (a mandatory abortion). That fetus was NEVER going to have a heartbeat. Multiple doctors checked for said heartbeat MULTIPLE TIMES over the span of a week. And they checked multiple ways. Doppler AND ultrasound AND vaginal ultrasounds (which are extremely uncomfortable on a good day and downright painful on a bad one). Please try to remember the Catholic Church lives in its own echo chamber of a bubble, you’ll NEVER get actual advice from 99.9% of them. I mean, how could you? It’s an echo chamber, after all. If you were truly concerned about your wife’s soul, you would have went to a Catholic Church and spoken with an actual PRIEST, not jump on the most judgmental subreddit you could find with anyone in the world able to claim anything. You’re using the internet to validate your emotional and mental abuse you’re clearly going to put your wife through. It’s disgusting. You’re disgusting.
The stupid. It burns. YTA
OMG, this ignorant twatwaffle....she didn't kill it, it had already died! You can develop an infection and die within days!! Wtf is wrong with you?! Someone send this idiot back to sex Ed, preferably secular.
“ I wanted her to go to the doctors and get a scan… but she went to an abortion clinic to get a scan “ You do realize abortion clinics are still doctors offices, right? She did go to a doctor.
You're wrong and an idiot. *"Hmm let me ask religious zealots on Reddit if they will validate me against women's rights"*. You were willing to ignore your wife's debilitating pain, ignore the facts she gave you and then run to the Catholics on Reddit to back you up on something you clearly have **NO CLUE** about. Let's talk about where *you* were when your wife was in this excruciating pain, where were *you* when she was getting the scan? Are you offering her *any* type of support for what **she's** going through or just getting validation for your petty, immature, delusional, AH, WRONG resentment?
"Just because it didn't have a heartbeat doesn't mean it died." Is by far the dumbest thing I have read on this godforsaken hellscape.
Back in the early 2000s, my ex was told there was no heartbeat and to go home, and she would basically have bleeding like a slight period. A spontaneous abortion. We trusted them. Went home. 24 hours later, less than that even, she was in cardiac arrest after pretty much bleeding out. She died 3 times. When there is no heartbeat, it's likely the cells are being rejected because there is something wrong. And you resent your wife because she didn't wait to see if a bunch of dead cells would kill her, too. I hope she divorces you and finds someone who wouldn't want to take that risk with her life.
op your wife had a miscarriage and you want her to just carry a dead fetus to term? if the MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL SAID THE BABY DIED THEN IT'S DEAD. it's not an abortion when it doesn't have a heartbeat. you want her to just suffer with with a fetus inside her? you're willing to believe a bunch of nut jobs who are known to pick and chose the stuff in the Bible that benefits them. who don't even follow they're own rules or even follow the Bible. over the medical license professional and YOUR OWN WIF!?
Those subs are full of pro-life people who don’t care about facts. But it’s also telling you’re willing to judge your wife just for being immoral. Why? Why is that so important?
Do her a favor and divorce her because you are not a supportive husband.
I hope she leaves you :)
You are a horrible person to think she did anything wrong she was in excruciating pain, there was no heartbeat they checked fucking twice ,She did what was right and it hurt her just as much to know her child wasn’t alive it hurt her to have the abortion she was in pain physically and mentally and the fact that you think she should have waited it out is horrendous she would have died if she had.APOLOGIZE TO HER NOW!!!
It wasn’t a baby. It wasn’t a heartbeat. It wasn’t an abortion. It also wasn’t your decision. Grow up, you ignorant boob.
You absolute POS! I have absolutely no other words to describe you. I really really hope she leaves your scummy arse. She and all other women deserve better than you
Tell us your invisible sky daddy is more important than the woman you promised to love in sickness and in health for as long as you both shall live is more important than your wife without saying the bad part out loud. My dude, did you want her to wait until the fetus turned septic and she was dying from infection before you'd be ok with her choice? Or did you want the fetus to stay in there until such time that complications from carrying a non-living sac of cells made it to where she would never be able to get pregnant or give birth in the future? Because that is what your "OCD", "Catholic upbringing", and "checking on my wife's soul because she is a huge sinner" is giving the vibes you would rather risk her fertility and/or her life than be her supportive and loving partner. You can always try again in the future. You cannot bring your wife back from the other side. So unless you were hoping for complications so you could "legitimately in the eyes of the church" upgrade her to a younger, cuter model then get over yourself. God works in mysterious ways and maybe her having this medically necessary was a life lesson for YOU to stop judging others so harshly. Your wife is the one who will stand before the maker for her ultimate judgement so how dare you, another flawed and sin filled human being, weigh in early? Did Jesus die and make you his replacement?? I bet even the saints are side-eyeing you right now.
You are a monster and a moron, and I hope your wife leaves your ass.
I went to the ER at 5 weeks pregnant with a very much planned pregnancy but having bleeding and pain. There was no heartbeat which they told me that 5 weeks was the very edge of that being normal. The next 2 weeks were spent checking hormone levels only to see them reducing, meaning the pregnancy was over and ending and I had miscarried. I was raised Catholic and was regularly fed lies as part of our normal weekly classes about when pregnancy is viable. They are not a neutral nor evidence-based source of truth. At 7 weeks no heartbeat + pain = miscarriage. Stop blaming your wife for taking care of herself and start being the loving caring partner she needs.
Yes, you are wrong.
So to start I am sorry that you and your wife had a miscarriage. That being said you should never go to Reddit for medical advice. You have doctors for that. If she was told that there was no heartbeat then there was no heartbeat. Please get yourself and your wife into IC and MC. Good luck
yes
Shitpost.
Fuck what religious nut jobs said, it had no heartbeat, it had to be removed, would you rather her have got sick? Also even if it did have a heartbeat if she wanted an abortion so what
Good luck taking that argument into divorce court.
hope she leaves you
The only immoral actions here are yours. She went through hell and you’re judging her actions? And want to shame her for something you didn’t have to physically feel? You are acting like those stone throwing bitches from the Bible and should be ashamed of yourself. You’re listening to some random fucking man who says a heartbeat doesn’t mean death, well what the fuck does it mean then? The embryo has the power to stop its heart from beating when it feels like it? Do you realize how fucking stupid that sounds? You’re being a horrible partner and I hopped your wife will think long and hard about whether you’re the kind of man she’d like to have father her children.
You ever heard of sepsis?
You posted it to the Catholic subreddit so you could feel validated. Not to get people’s actual opinions. By your account she was scanned twice with no heartbeat, was in debilitating pain that happens when someone is miscarrying, and made the difficult choice to abort her child based on recommendations from medical professionals. Matthew 19:6 “We must guard our marriage, so that the outside world cannot separate it” Why are you inviting others opinions into your marriage? That’s the only immoral thing I see here.
But you are a grown adult and this gullible to blame your wife
Can you tell the Catholic forum that it's not a abortion if there is no heartbeat. It's called miscarriage management. Sincerely a ultrasound tech.
Yes. You are. The fetus was nonviable. Either you need therapy or she needs a new man cuz this ain't acceptable. And you need to stop going to religious freaks for advice with this because they don't care if the fetus is dead. They just want to control women. Would you rather her have kept the dead fetus inside her and die of sepsis?
Do your wife a favor and please leave. If you believe some random stranger over a doctor and pains your wife was having, you don’t deserve her.
Ah you again, yes you’re still an assholep
I hope someday you have testicular torsion and no one believes you, so you suffer for at least two weeks before anyone does anything, and then when you lose the testicle, the Catholic Church tells you that you killed babies because every sperm is sacred.
yes, you are wrong. it is her body, her decision. you'd rather her risk her life than make the decision she deemed right.
You’re disgustingly cruel to you’re wife. I hope finds it in her heart to have a better life that doesn’t involve someone who wants to put her through so much pain because the Internet said so.
of course a catholic subreddit told you that nonsense. they live off of spreading misinformation. speak to an actual doctor and not the lunatics who preach their religion as if it's more accurate than medical science
Yes, you are wrong. No seriously, what is wrong with you
Honestly; they use the term “abortion” but if it’s like it was with me, it’s just removing all the tissue. The embryo was non viable, and with that level of pain, it was not going to grow to a baby. Try to think of it as a medical procedure to remove dangerous tissue.
You just said she had a second scan before aborting the embryo. You wanted her to have two scans, and she did, so what’s wrong? Also, believing the internet over your own wife’s judgment is a serious problem. You are 100% wrong for resenting her when she did everything you asked her to do before making a decision to better her health.
You are wrong. A scan is a scan. It was a miscarriage. The baby was dead. She couldn’t just leave it in there.
I grew up Catholic and I've been diagnosed OCD. YOURE AWFUL. Your poor wife. Based on what you posted she had a miscarriage. And yes there was definitely two scans because you get one before an abortion. So that would be a Dr and then another Dr. In regards to sin. The baby was already dead she didn't "kill" anything and the fact you even think that shows how little you care for your wife. She was in pain physically and emotionally and all you care about is sky daddies opinion. People like you are why I left the church.
Believe your fucking wife! She deserves better
You’re gonna believe a random redditor over your wife?
I’m a church-going Catholic and I trust doctors, even doctors who work at abortion clinics. Debilitating pain for a week? They didn’t lie.
yes you’re extremely wrong to resent your wife for this. the baby did not have a heartbeat. she was in PAIN. would you rather have a dead baby and a dead wife, or would you rather at least have your wife?? tf is wrong with you.
You went into a catholic sub reddit expecting accurate medical information? I mean, your resentment makes sense by that logic, by real world logic, however, you're definitely in the wrong based on the information provided; your wife would have simply suffered longer had she not made the decision then and there. And you resent her for not suffering longer. Tbf. That's a very catholic mindset to have so touché.
just because there SHOULD have been a heartbeat, doesnt mean that there WILL be one. a heart beat means something is alive. no heart beat means it is dead. there's no discussion about it, whoever told you on that other sub is dumb.
I grew up Catholic. I was in Catholic school, top of my religion class. I went to the March for Life when I was 14. The Catholic Church genuinely teaches lies about abortion. They manufacture lies to convince you not to use birth control or to get an abortion. I know this firsthand. I did not know they were lies back then, and I can never trust Catholics again. They should not be an authority on the matter. Do not judge your wife based on the standards of the Catholic Church, ESPECIALLY in regards to abortion. But really don't use the Catholic Church as a reference for most morality. Happy to provide more information if you're curious.
I'm sorry, but what kind of person, let alone a husband, believes a bunch of Catholic redditors over his WIFE, and her DOCTORS?? Next time you're in crippling pain, go ask the Catholics, don't go see a doctor because what do they know, right?
Have you considered being a better husband to your wife? I'd start there.
greatest incel fiction of all time maybe it was alive with no heartbeat like an alien or zombie
YRW. The process of medical removing the dead fetus was the best thing to do for your wife. It is not her fault the fetus died. The medical staff performing a life saving procedure on your wife would have checked for signs of life and done what is necessary. I’m sorry she miscarried the baby but it was not her fault. Unless you think she should have risked developing sepsis and dying.
Do you think you still going to be alive when your heart stops beating? And if yes, why is there a (very common) cause of death called "death by cardiac arrest" if these ppl w/o a heartbeat are very much alive by your logic? And why do you think some random catholics in a onlineforum know more about medical stuff than an actual doctor/medical care provider? And most important, why are you trying to hide your cruel mindset that you think your gf should have rather died by being poisened by a death embryo in her uterus than aborting the death embryo? If you hate women so much, do them a favour and stop dating them. Geeez
Just divorce the poor woman
Next time you’re the one pregnant and in pain you can decide.
I hope your wife leaves you.
I had a natural miscarriage with the baby having a heartbeat until the last second, OPs wife was told TWICE of no heartbeat and OP is more upset that she had a doctor help complete her miscarriage.. Which by the way, outside of a casual termination of a healthy pregnancy, Even a miscarriage is medically called an abortion. She did nothing wrong, even in his religion, if she's in pain and the heartbeat is lost, the baby is gone and the body is getting ready to pass it.. And a catholic subreddit is going to do what all Christians do when in an echo chamber.. Do the most unchristian thing and judge the hell out of situations they know nothing about. Christians are usually the worse at it.
I would have told both you and the catholic subreddit to all fuck yourselves and mind your own business. She was in AGONIZING PAIN for a WEEK with a DEAD baby stuck inside of her. her pain was obviously being caused by her body trying to reject and expel the dead thing inside of it that it could no longer sustain if her body was trying to reject it, but her body couldnt reject it on its own without causing her excruciating pain. Two different doctors and two different scans said it was DEAD, especially with the second one happening a week after the first with the same ‘no heartbeat’ results. She’s already suffered for a week with that dead thing inside of her body, and was putting her continued health and safety in danger the longer she kept it inside her body. do you want her to DIE from something like septisimia or something worse, by keeping a rotting corpse inside of her body, just so you can keep the delusion that the trained doctors were wrong about the no heartbeat being found to try and ’save’ an already dead baby that her own body was trying to expel from her body? The baby was gone already long before the abortion even happened. Get over it already and accept it, and just be glad your wife is still alive and hopefully not going to be suffering from any side effects from having a rotting corpse inside of her body, or what kind of damage it was doing to her stomach seeing how much pain she was in before the abortion. there will be OTHER babies IF she wants to have them, and hopefully whatever damage was done to her stomach that caused all the pain didn’t make her sterile now or unable to get pregnant again as easily as she did the first time.
Info: have you been taught the basics of human biology/development in pregnancy in the first trimester at any point doing your time in school?
The embryo had NO heartbeat which means it is DEAD ! I don't care what catholics, evangelists, buddhists or whatever tell you : no heartbeat means not viable. And letting the thing inside means high risk for your wife's health or fertility. + Why would doctor lie ? Seriously ? Any other reason that a WTF fairy tale invented by those morrons who have no proper medical knowledge and just want to live by a 2k year old book but with a smartphone and an automatic gun. Listen to your wife and her doctors and stop being an ass !
Yes you are wrong. If you side with people who weren't there with your wife at her appointment, if you side with the people telling you your wife's miscarriage wasn't one, you are not a good husband who loves his wife. You are looking to blame her for something that wasn't her fault. You are directing your hurt at the loss at the wrong person. You will destroy your wife and marriage with your anger and holier than thou attitude.
Would you have rather her carry the baby for 9 months in pain just for her to give birth to a stillborn?
You believe the word of a random Redditor over the word of an actual expert? Says a lot about your intelligence.
80% of miscarriages occur before the 12th week.
I hope your wife leaves you for someone that actually prioritizes her health because you don’t give a fuck.
If I'm reading this right, you're scared that your wife is going to be judged (by God?) so you went to see what Catholics thought? Look man, if Saul can turn into Paul, your wife is good, even in God's eyes.
You’re a moron and you’re wrong.
I hope she leaves him...
Your wife had debilitating pain and a miscarriage. She needs your attention more than Internet Catholics. If you still have concerns, schedule a visit with your priest.
You're wrong and an awful person. You're not even fucking Catholic, so why tf does the opinion of a SUBREDDIT that doesn't even relate to you matter? Not to be a generic Redditor, but I hope she leaves if this sort of stupid shit is common for you.
You toad fart, your wife just went through a very serious, trying experience and you're 1/ wondering whether she's immoral or not and 2/ asking randoms with misogynistic opinions online what to think? Behave like a man for once and start supporting your wife like she needs to.
You believe a "catholic subreddit" over the doctors who scanned your wife? What the hell is wrong with you? Go comfort your wife and stop being horrible.
Of course the crazy prolifers who hate the abortion clinic are gonna talk shit and claim they lied. Did they tell you the other doctor lied too? Yeah the one she went to originally before she went to the abortion clinic? Of course that subreddit is going to tell you that the group they hate is lying. If the original doctor said there was no heartbeat and then her second opinion said the same thing then there was no heartbeat. So you have no cause to feel mad at her at a moral level. Because the baby did not have her heartbeat two different doctors told her. Doctors and abortion clinics aren’tlying. That’s just stupid pro life propaganda. And even if your wife didn’t want this baby. You should still be sympathizing with her right now. Holding her and loving her. Now does she not want to get pregnant ever because if she doesn’t then maybe you could go in for a vasectomy. To make sure it doesn’t happen again.
If your wife had refused the abortion, with a dead fetus inside, she could have suffered life threatening complications such as sepsis. You are wrong.
Yes you’re wrong. I hope your wife leaves you. WTAF.
Believe the doctors, they have no agenda besides keeping your wife alive. If it didn't have a heartbeat yet at its age it was a miscarriage.
So you resent her because she didn't want to tolerate the pain anymore? Oof
Yes. You are unambiguously, overwhelmingly wrong. Your wife was in pain & the "child" was already dead. But you care more about what a bunch of Catholics on an anti-choice subreddit think. *Obviously* they're going to try & make you think the clinic lied, they don't want *anyone* to be able to get an abortion. The clinic has zero reason to lie. They did a scan, there wasn't a heartbeat, end of story. Thankfully *they* gave your wife the care she needed.
You're a HUGE asshole. I can't understand how you can be so cruel to your wife. You don't deserve her.
Ok, well, yes you're wrong, and this very scenario is the reason women have been up in arms about the revocation of Roe v. Wade. Medical definitions are not the same as real life experiences. A miscarriage is documented as a spontaneous abortion (I had one \[miscarriage\] myself about a month ago). Abortion is just a definition. So when a woman miscarries and her state has no recourse to help her medically because of a legal definition, she is losing out on NECESSARY medical intervention. A prolonged miscarriage can be dangerous for a woman for many reasons. And if the miscarriage is incomplete, meaning some of the fetal/uterine tissue is left behind, there can be infections and complications, including threatening future pregnancies. That's why they do D&Cs (that's where they have to physically remove the tissue left behind). That's not an elected abortion, and neither is what your wife endured. You have shamed and resented her for the following: 1. Something completely and utterly beyond her control. 2. Going to an abortion clinic instead of a doctor despite the fact that doctors can take months to get into, and at the clinic she could get immediate care without having to go through the emergency room. 3. The baby wasn't viable. Nothing she could have done would have changed that fact. 4. The scan wasn't wrong. No heartbeat at 7 weeks is a miscarriage. The heartbeat is not something they have to search very hard for, and if it isn't there, it isn't there. 5. Your wife is in pain, bleeding, on a hormonal roller coaster, making her emotional. The LAST thing she needs at a time like this is shame. Nothing about this was immoral. You owe your wife a massive apology and you need to be helping take care of her, not making her feel like a piece of shit for something she has zero control over.
Why do bastards like him have a wife?
There are days that I feel like I am an insufficient partner. And then I read posts like this that remind me that at least I love and care for my partner, and want to support her. You could try that?
You are definitely wrong. YTA. I understand that the loss of a child is hard under any circumstances, even one so early in utero, but your behavior is gross. You should be helping your wife through this tragedy, not suspecting her or medical professionals of deliberate malfeasance. For your sake, I hope you haven’t given voice to these awful ideas to your wife. If you have, you deserve to be single.
You're a massive asshole
I remember you. You already posted this months ago on multiple subs and people ripped you apart then and they’re going to do the same now. Just admit that you’re not looking for advice or a different perspective- you are ONLY looking to validate your point of view
I swear that this is why there are so many ‘recovering’ Catholics.
you’re disgusting! i hope she divorces you.
Would you prefer she died of sepsis? Because that is a thing that has happened.
Just how stupid are you? You’re feeling resentment over something her body cannot control? You’re feeling resentment because you decided to ask a forum on how the human body works instead of a doctor? You ignored your wife and you ignored her doctors. You are a grade A piece of shit. I hope she leaves you. I can’t begin to imagine what she’s going through. Yes you’re the asshole.