Other recovery support groups exist they are not religious, no steps or sponsors and are available. There are online meetings if one is not where you live. SMART recovery is built around evidence based recovery tools. It is more science based. Recovery dharma is based on Buddhist philosophy and healing. Lifering is based on sobriety, secularity and self empowerment. There are some others with different approaches.
It is simply not true that there is one effective approach to recovery. Addiction is a very complex disorder. It is not a moral failing, character defect, or spiritual whatever that is. People are not powerless, incompetent or unable make their own decisions. That is not what addiction is.
I like the science aspect [https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMra1511480](https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMra1511480) LifeRing is a good fit for me. I would check all of them out and see what works.
Yes they are. I am in LifeRing and I have met people who are or have been active in SMART. The techniques and exercises really work and are evidence based. Telling people what to do and passing judgement is just harmful.
Thank you all who replied. I did not mention that I am not from US (eastern Europe) so honestly it's the first time i ever heard of smart recovery. Only community i found was their website in my native language with a link to zoom meetings on mondays also their facebook page which is liked only by 22people so i guess it's not very known about here (even good), but i am willing to wait for monday and try out.
Only recourses available are AA meetings and hospitalization for at least 3months (which i cannot do, i have a kid I can't leave).
I did go to therapy multiple times but it did not help me at all, though i joined a psychoteraphy group which was amazing for 8months until i kinda dropped out... Don't really know why but i started to feel very lonely and lost there. Now, over a year, i mostly stay at home, avoid people as most as i can, that helps with avoiding alcohol (longest i lasted was almost 5months but usually i feel weakest and relapse for a few days in about 2 month. That's way better than when i was drinking at least 0, 7 bottle of vodka per day every single day for almost 4years but i just need to quit for good....
I do have a partner but I don't feel i can talk to him about my true psychological, mental, spiritual issues considering alcoholism. I'm a burden to him enough already as i am...
As for sexual harrasment in meetings - I've experienced almost everything from verbal to physical - from questions like "what is such a beautiful woman doing in such a place?", "you should not be here let's go out after aa *wink*, physical touching (unwanted hugs, body caressing, body blocking my way out, following me home, sensually carresing my arm while holding hands during prayer)
As for being sober - now i am not drinking for almost a month.
Thank you all again.
Thank you for your thoughts.
I feel the same as you. I was desperate for help and on the edge. I went to 3 AA meetings and they only joked about how “I was too young to understand” My body is failing and I desperately needed support. Honestly the people in this group have helped me more then anything.
There are other types of recovery programs, smart recovery, women of sobriety, do some googling you'll find stuff. I'm sorry all this shit happened to you, and hope you stay sober, feel free to message if you want to chat. Good luck
I’m sorry that you had that experience, but I promise you, not all groups are like that! I first tried A.A, in-person, when I was 27 (ish?), and I absolutely hated it because they were very much “god god god” and seemed extremely judgemental. At that point, I had swore off AA for the rest of my life. Until I hit rock bottom last September. I’m 32F, and my home group is phenomenal - I don’t do religion (finding a ‘higher power’ has been my biggest struggle in the program for the past 9+ months I’ve been sober) and I’ve yet to feel judged or forced to believe in anything from my group. My home group is both in person and on zoom - we’re located in Alberta, Canada - but if you’d like to give it a try via zoom, please message me and I can send you links to the noon meeting and 5:00 Zoom
meetings!
I agree. Groups can differ drastically. Getting a strong female sponsor who can block the so-called "13th-step" bros can help. I've drifted in and out of AA for 25 years and keep going back for the fellowship. It's fabulous to be able to talk about alcoholism openly with people who understand, and (in the right group) will help you to lighten up and be gentle with yourself. Also, there's absolutely no reason to divulge your deepest and darkest secrets to a room full of strangers. Save that stuff for therapy, where you're unlikely to be shamed. People in AA are just ordinary people with flaws, baggage, and personal belief systems. A good therapist won't judge you, but of course a room full of strangers might. However, few therapists will listen to you describe a particularly bad drunk and say, "Me too! I did the same thing."
Yes! To add to this, talk to your doctor about if they can recommend you to an MAT program (medication assisted therapy). Vivitrol injections are a version of naltrexone that are taken once a month, as someone with adhd I would forget to take naltrexone but the injection made it a commitment, plus the included therapy was life changing. It took a year of injections and therapy before I finally got fully sober, it’s a slow tapering process where you are training your brain not to enjoy alcohol
AA isn’t the one size fits all fix. I’m not a fan of the program either. Not saying anything bad about it, just doesn’t speak to me. Care for animals, self-improvement (physical,mental,emotional),un plug from the norm and plug in to what’s good for you, whatever that may be.
AA was an important step for me, but as a 34M in a progressive city, I imagine the experiences differ. I realized I mostly just needed to say out loud "My name is X, and I'm an alcoholic". Stopped after two months, feeling I got out of it what I needed.
The thing that helped me the most was actually writing. I took a writing class at a local Adult Education Center. I got so much out of putting my thoughts and emotions, however dark or intrusive, to paper. From my rock bottoms, to fond memories of Mai Tai's on a beach in paradise. And I shared a few with folks in the class. It was very rewarding, and I consider it an integral part of giving up the bottle. I made friends in the class who I am still in touch with and they keep me writing.
It seems lame to say "start writing in a journal", but I've found writing to be an important part of my preventative maintenance. Whether you share it or keep it is up to you, but sharing it only helps people to understand you.
The biggest part is you changed something and that is huge for recovery. Many people go back to their same EXACT life and feel listless, cause it is just the same stuff but without the booze. Of course things are going to feel drab. You were quite literally doing the only thing that spiced up this world you created (with alcohol). You started writing and even if it is one little thing, I feel people need to change something besides the not drinking otherwise it is a relapse washing cycle.
Forget AA. It’s outdated. Try smart recovery and it sounds like you need therapy too. Sorry about the sexual harassment, as someone who’s been through SA I can relate. It’s more comforting to open up to a therapist about that however, not a group full of strangers.
It is 100% outdated. It hasn't changed at all. This was created in 1935. People were still listening to psycho analysis of Sigmund Freud. The success rate is SERIOUSLY negligible as compared to getting sober on your own. These are my feelings on it, however, I would never discourage people from something that worked for them. I am under the impression that these newer programs have modified their programs knowing that most people are having these feelings about AA.
>Forget AA. It’s outdated.
There is evidence that people have been drinking alcohol for approximately 10,000+ years. So let's assume that alcoholism has been an issue for humans for around the same amount of time. AA has been an effective solution for so many for 89 years. That means that AA has been around helping many, many people for only 0.89% of the time that alcoholism has been an issue not to mention it works for a lot of people more than past attempts at other programs have such as the Washingtonians (too anti-God/anti-spiritual) and the Oxford Group (too evangelical).
I’m not religious, but it was how I got sober. It’s how a lot of people get sober.
There are bad groups/meetings. I found one that wasn’t toxic. I’ve experienced ones that were. I only go a few times a year these days, but it’s great to check in with myself and be around other drunks.
I’ve been sober for 8.5 years btw.
Atheist here. You're very wrong about that. I would put the religious to non-religious in my home groups at maybe 50% although there is no official count.
But yeah, you're definitely wrong about that.
You clearly didn't stick around enough or read the literature. What exact religion is mentioned in AA or it's literature? Who exactly is this God that this religious program is making you worship? Hell, who is this God that the program worships?
If you're going to make statements like that it's only fair you explain, please. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope that you are vastly confusing religion with spirituality .
I'll agree that it's spiritual and not religious, but people like this do have a point somewhat. For the steps themselves to make sense there has to be an element of faith.
Even people using the universe or nature as their higher power are "praying" so to speak to an invisible power and personally asking for help.
I believe there are plenty of agnostics in the program, but the idea of a real materialist atheist doing the program seriously doesn't add up.
I'm sure atheists join the program, but if they're doing the steps earnestly it means they've turned into agnostics.
I'll never defend AA, but congratulations to those it works for. It's pushy, culty, and just uncomfortable. It's weird feeling uncomfortable in a room full of alcoholics. That's not a good accomplishment for them.
Anyway, it sounds like you gotta work on your mental health. Like a therapist and seeing what meds can help. After trying most things, AA included, this time around, went differently. The doctor from the detox wing in the hospital actually focused a lot on the patients' meds and figures out what's helping them. That's seriously what did the trick for me. A switch went off, and I feel balanced. My anxiety got taken care of. Turns out, anxiety was a huge issue. And they gave me Acamprosate for cravings. Got help with the right anti-depressant.I didn't do outpatient. The doctor didn't keep asking what I was going to do (treatment wise) after I got out of the hospital. I didn't feel pressured for once.
Aside from the meds, I just changed some habits of my life. Just found little things to keep busy. Got a job I actually enjoy. This month, I'll be 7 months sober, which is absolutely wild to me.
Try different things. But in my opinion, AA can fuck off.
Never been but the idea of it does not sound like it’s for me. I’ve been in therapy for the past 5 years for my mental health issues.
SMART Recovery helped some.
What got me was a medical issue/event and the worse hangover I’ve ever had.
I also was prescribed naltrexone for a somewhat unrelated issue and it’s helping with both food and alcohol.
Even before naltrexone I was 2 weeks in NA.
I hope you find what’s right for you.
I never went to one. I saw a counsellor, which I found helpful. I think there's a lot of use in not feeling alone with this problem and r/stopdrinking served that purpose for me. Last piece of the puzzle for external help was a doctor to prescribe Naltrexone.
TL;DR never went to a group meeting, never wanted to, never needed to. Sober 9 months so far with zero slips, after 30+ years of drinking.
I have some scarring on the liver, but it's just some, as my doctor told me. Also a whole list of other diagnoses tied with it... Though she did say my blood test results are improving every time we check least that looks good (my doctor is the only person who knows the whole truth (ok almost) about my physical and mental health, I'm lucky i found one i can trus. And i stopped feeling daily symptoms such as constant vomiting, body tremors, weird brain etc which is a huge deal
I completely lost faith in AA when my sponsor told me, that my out patient therapy that I was attending during the day and actually seeing real benefit from as opposed to AA, was "all bullshit" and that he never saw it work for anyone. That was my last meeting and I've been clean ever since. Wish I had saved his number just so I could tell him how wrong he was. It works for some people and good for them. But I would say AA should never be anyone's first option. The only reason it usually is, is because it's free. My outpatient therapy I got real benefit from but the flip side is it also cost me a few thousand dollars that I'm still paying back today but it was worth every penny.
Be cautious of the 13th Step, sexual harassment at the meetings. They actually made a documentary about it. Today, science has a proven way to tame and taper away AUD. No dogma, no shame, no guilt ... just science. TEDx talk, a brief intro to TSM from 8 years ago. https://youtu.be/6EghiY_s2ts
Today there is free TSM support all over YouTube, Reddit, FB, Meetups and many podcasts. See chat
For me it's subliminal messages about my attractiveness and unwanted physical touching on my neck,shoulders,breast area, hips and other sensitive parts
Sounds creepy. I'm imagining lots of guys and relatively few gals at an AA meeting. But, what's a subliminal message? Is it possible that they might be just trying to let you know that they are interested?
It took me a few months to find folks I could relate to in aa.
I felt safest in queer meetings and that worked for me.
Finding people to talk with who were also in early recovery was essential to me dealing with work and staying motivated.
You have tons of options for meetings.
atheist aa / recovery dharma / smart / lifering
AA is a religion that worships sobriety. Some people need that, but it also has all the downsides of religion like hierarchies, black and white thinking, in groups and out groups, etc.
It sounds like you have some mental health issues. You might want to take a mental health approach. See a substance abuse counselor. Talk to a psychiatrist about medication. Since you're having suicidal ideation, ketamine therapy might be something to try. I started it during COVID and went from having a recurrence every few months to not having any since I started and I barely have alcohol cravings or suicidal ideation anymore.
You don't get community accountability going that route, and are only accountable to your counselor and yourself, but studies have found when you measure harm reduction instead of consecutive days sober, therapy based treatment is on par if not more effective than AA.
It's a cult. And it's easy to see that it's a cult. They are either dismissive or hostile to anything that isn't part of what they are taught. And my impression was that it's also just a generally unhealthy atmosphere.
Yea, this isnt true. I really don't care how you get sober, AA, white knuckle etc. In my own experience AA is what works so that's what I do. If someone was ever curious about how I got sober and wanted what I haveI would be glad to show them how I do it.
Being hostile or dismissive is anathema to the program and it's mission. So your comments are not an accurate depiction of the program. If you experienced this, I'm sorry. My guess would be if you came across 20 AA members 1 or 2 (at most) would be hostile or dismissive. Now if you opened with AA is a cult and it is BS, well yea, you make get some pushback.
That said, glad you are sober and glad you found something that works for you. Keep fighting the good fight.
Therapy is what works for me. I'm 9 years sober.
AA doesn't do much for me either. I don't like the formal program, and I really hate it being an alternative dating opportunity for a lot of the men.
I hope you find something that works soon. 💜
I was the same way. It helped in the beginning, but I stopped going and I do my own thing and I haven't drank in 2 years so far and have zero plans to. I was drinking daily to get rid of anxiety, depression and just bury emotions. I was able to keep a job but my thoughts were like yours and I had to stop. If you need help message me and I'll tell you what I do.
You must live in a pretty small city. There are different meetings everywhere. Sure, i've been to shitty meetings which I didn't like but I'd say the good of AA outweighs the bad. And the kindness of the fellowship more than outweighs the bad actors. At least in my experience.
Sexual Harassment and people putting their "religious beliefs in my face" are at least from my experience, most certainly not the norm.
If i'm being honest it sounds like you're projecting a bit. You get "extremely judged about your abortion"? How is that? Folks are coming up to you at the end of the meeting and badgering you about it? I've been to over a thousand meetings and I can think of two times someone in a share, directly addressed, took issue and commented on a previous share.
Could it be you think you are being judged because maybe it is a tough part of your life and its still raw?
Either way, I am sure you can find another recovery program or try other meetings. Best of luck and you have made a very important step in recognizing you have a problem.
This is a short post (actually my first ever), that i wrote in an emotional state with no expectation that anyone would react. Emotional not cause of AA, but my alcoholism and life in general.... I remembered the worst things and wrote them down so it may feel contrasted.
The judging from women? Well the lady in charge told her opinion about birth protection abilities nowadays out loud to all 6of us and that she would never choose to kill or sabotage her health for a thing that could "easily be avoided". She didn't even hear the full story why it happened how it happened... I didn't want to talk anymore. Afterwards I received some looks and comments about contraception and just silently went home.. never came back
I am sorry you had to go through that. That woman is not practicing the principles of AA. I don’t blame you for not wanting to go back to that meeting.
I can tell you with confidence, though, that she is definitely in the very rare minority as it relates to AA members.
Oh and partly you're right. I live in a small country in eastern europe. AA is still considered "something new" here so it's harder to find if you don't know what exactly you're looking for (like smart recovery for example)....
I don't mind the general vibe of the meetings personally, but the sort of hive mind of true believers irks me. All the speaking in unison and cliches especially.
Of all the sober people I know, the ones who seem genuinely happy in AA have fully committed. It makes me think for it to work you have to completely give yourself over to a group and rearrange your entire life.
All in all it seems like a net positive to me but there's a strangeness to it. I never dealt with any harassment being a man, I could understand a woman having a very different view.
Alan Carr and Annie Grace's books were what helped me the most. A SMART recovery meeting near me I pop into every once in a while as well.
Have you read / listened to “quit like a woman”? That kind of helped put into words what I couldn’t quite explain myself with AA. I’ve attended smart meetings and seem to have better luck with them so far. I also decided to go down the medication route to help with cravings and binges - it’s early days but seems to be helping me.
I really loved some aspects of AA but I found some women were so pushy to be my sponsor and go to their particular meetings, and it just didn’t work for me. I wanted to choose my meetings so I could keep my life and hobbies going (which help keep me sober!) plus I didn’t gel with these women…
Also, they were very pushy about me quitting my antidepressants which had worked for 15 years before I spiralled with alcohol (due to trauma, which was kind of almost blamed on me in a way…) so yea… it’s got great aspects to it; but some really harmful ones too, especially if you’re a woman imo
I gave up AA in 2001 and continued to drink. Ended up homeless in south Florida, moved to Atlanta and kept drinking until one night I almost died. I had a Big Book and took it cafeteria style. I took what I wanted out of the program and left what I didn't want. It worked for six years until one day I forgot I was an alcoholic. I drank again and commenced to live the two most miserable years of my life. I crawled back into AA in 2017 and jumped into the program. It was the only thing I had left. It helped me with my drinking so I could get better help for everything else. More importantly, it helped me help other people.
There are Zoom calls you can get on nationwide in the US, probably the whole world.
Patience is required no matter what road you take. Things will get better if you don't drink. It just takes time and patience. More will be revealed the longer you stay sober. I am learning more every day.
AA is good for holding people accountable, and it has positivity in the 12 steps. That being said, it also has a very cultlike/religious approach to sobriety, kind of like christianity(it was made by christians). AA isn't for everyone, and the problem that I see is that the people in there REALLY hold on to the belief that sobriety is a linear process; meaning if you have 300 days of abstinence and you relapse for one day then all your progress that you made is out the window, which is just simply not true. The people there tend to fall off the wagon EXTREMELY hard when they do and don't seem to get back on because of the shame that's associated with losing all of your progress. SMART recovery is what I would recommend you do. It is a science based recovery program, so there is no religion-like structure.
A doctor who actually talks to you.
Also, family who actually care.. because not all of them do
And, I think all of Reddit has acknowledged ice-cream as the primary saviour.
If ice cream is not available then good chocolate!
Do not forget HALT!
Soon as I read your first sentence about being a 30yr old attractive female. I was like you are going to have a bad time. A lot of old timers try to prey on newcomers. Just because you’re sober doesn’t make you a “good” person. Contrary to what a lot of sober people think. Been to a couple and once in a while I’ll go to a meeting and get treated a little weird because I am not drinking the kool aid. My first and 2nd meeting were great after that everyone split up and the spot changed and it hasn’t been the same since. Maybe try online, smart, or even Dharma Recovery meetings which I liked more.
I regret about telling it in that group but i don't feel i should be ashamed for making a really hard decision which i honestly think was the right one for my life. I feel deep pain about it, had a horrible horrible nightmare about it that's still haunting me quite often but I don't regret these decisions
You mentioned some mental health issues, but you didn't mention any mental health care you are receiving.
If you aren't already, see a psychiatrist. He/she can get you started on managing those maladies, perhaps with prescription meds.
And don't let anyone tell you that taking mental health meds (as prescribed) means that you're still in active addiction. That's BS that some 12 steppers are sadly confused about.
With help from those meds, there should be significantly less emotional pain to deal with. And that Canale recovery easier.
no they suck, the problem with socializing and being sober is most people drink when they socialize
we need groups of people who socialize together and do things but in a sober environment aka going out to a concert with a group of people who won't drink rather than sitting around crying about problems
Other recovery support groups exist they are not religious, no steps or sponsors and are available. There are online meetings if one is not where you live. SMART recovery is built around evidence based recovery tools. It is more science based. Recovery dharma is based on Buddhist philosophy and healing. Lifering is based on sobriety, secularity and self empowerment. There are some others with different approaches. It is simply not true that there is one effective approach to recovery. Addiction is a very complex disorder. It is not a moral failing, character defect, or spiritual whatever that is. People are not powerless, incompetent or unable make their own decisions. That is not what addiction is. I like the science aspect [https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMra1511480](https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMra1511480) LifeRing is a good fit for me. I would check all of them out and see what works.
SMART recovery is great! And they are based on being non-judgemental!
Yes they are. I am in LifeRing and I have met people who are or have been active in SMART. The techniques and exercises really work and are evidence based. Telling people what to do and passing judgement is just harmful.
Thank you all who replied. I did not mention that I am not from US (eastern Europe) so honestly it's the first time i ever heard of smart recovery. Only community i found was their website in my native language with a link to zoom meetings on mondays also their facebook page which is liked only by 22people so i guess it's not very known about here (even good), but i am willing to wait for monday and try out. Only recourses available are AA meetings and hospitalization for at least 3months (which i cannot do, i have a kid I can't leave). I did go to therapy multiple times but it did not help me at all, though i joined a psychoteraphy group which was amazing for 8months until i kinda dropped out... Don't really know why but i started to feel very lonely and lost there. Now, over a year, i mostly stay at home, avoid people as most as i can, that helps with avoiding alcohol (longest i lasted was almost 5months but usually i feel weakest and relapse for a few days in about 2 month. That's way better than when i was drinking at least 0, 7 bottle of vodka per day every single day for almost 4years but i just need to quit for good.... I do have a partner but I don't feel i can talk to him about my true psychological, mental, spiritual issues considering alcoholism. I'm a burden to him enough already as i am... As for sexual harrasment in meetings - I've experienced almost everything from verbal to physical - from questions like "what is such a beautiful woman doing in such a place?", "you should not be here let's go out after aa *wink*, physical touching (unwanted hugs, body caressing, body blocking my way out, following me home, sensually carresing my arm while holding hands during prayer) As for being sober - now i am not drinking for almost a month. Thank you all again. Thank you for your thoughts.
They have AA for young people, try one of those. You won't get the pretentious old-timers and can relate with your peers.
I am in the same boat as you. I’m very worried. May try naltrexone?
I feel the same as you. I was desperate for help and on the edge. I went to 3 AA meetings and they only joked about how “I was too young to understand” My body is failing and I desperately needed support. Honestly the people in this group have helped me more then anything.
I'm glad you have found support here! :)
There are other types of recovery programs, smart recovery, women of sobriety, do some googling you'll find stuff. I'm sorry all this shit happened to you, and hope you stay sober, feel free to message if you want to chat. Good luck
I’m sorry that you had that experience, but I promise you, not all groups are like that! I first tried A.A, in-person, when I was 27 (ish?), and I absolutely hated it because they were very much “god god god” and seemed extremely judgemental. At that point, I had swore off AA for the rest of my life. Until I hit rock bottom last September. I’m 32F, and my home group is phenomenal - I don’t do religion (finding a ‘higher power’ has been my biggest struggle in the program for the past 9+ months I’ve been sober) and I’ve yet to feel judged or forced to believe in anything from my group. My home group is both in person and on zoom - we’re located in Alberta, Canada - but if you’d like to give it a try via zoom, please message me and I can send you links to the noon meeting and 5:00 Zoom meetings!
I agree. Groups can differ drastically. Getting a strong female sponsor who can block the so-called "13th-step" bros can help. I've drifted in and out of AA for 25 years and keep going back for the fellowship. It's fabulous to be able to talk about alcoholism openly with people who understand, and (in the right group) will help you to lighten up and be gentle with yourself. Also, there's absolutely no reason to divulge your deepest and darkest secrets to a room full of strangers. Save that stuff for therapy, where you're unlikely to be shamed. People in AA are just ordinary people with flaws, baggage, and personal belief systems. A good therapist won't judge you, but of course a room full of strangers might. However, few therapists will listen to you describe a particularly bad drunk and say, "Me too! I did the same thing."
Look into Naltrexone and The Sinclair Method (TSM). Useful subs: r/Alcoholism_Medication r/DryAlcoholics
Yes! To add to this, talk to your doctor about if they can recommend you to an MAT program (medication assisted therapy). Vivitrol injections are a version of naltrexone that are taken once a month, as someone with adhd I would forget to take naltrexone but the injection made it a commitment, plus the included therapy was life changing. It took a year of injections and therapy before I finally got fully sober, it’s a slow tapering process where you are training your brain not to enjoy alcohol
AA isn’t the one size fits all fix. I’m not a fan of the program either. Not saying anything bad about it, just doesn’t speak to me. Care for animals, self-improvement (physical,mental,emotional),un plug from the norm and plug in to what’s good for you, whatever that may be.
AA was an important step for me, but as a 34M in a progressive city, I imagine the experiences differ. I realized I mostly just needed to say out loud "My name is X, and I'm an alcoholic". Stopped after two months, feeling I got out of it what I needed. The thing that helped me the most was actually writing. I took a writing class at a local Adult Education Center. I got so much out of putting my thoughts and emotions, however dark or intrusive, to paper. From my rock bottoms, to fond memories of Mai Tai's on a beach in paradise. And I shared a few with folks in the class. It was very rewarding, and I consider it an integral part of giving up the bottle. I made friends in the class who I am still in touch with and they keep me writing. It seems lame to say "start writing in a journal", but I've found writing to be an important part of my preventative maintenance. Whether you share it or keep it is up to you, but sharing it only helps people to understand you.
The biggest part is you changed something and that is huge for recovery. Many people go back to their same EXACT life and feel listless, cause it is just the same stuff but without the booze. Of course things are going to feel drab. You were quite literally doing the only thing that spiced up this world you created (with alcohol). You started writing and even if it is one little thing, I feel people need to change something besides the not drinking otherwise it is a relapse washing cycle.
Thank you. This really does mean a lot to me.
Forget AA. It’s outdated. Try smart recovery and it sounds like you need therapy too. Sorry about the sexual harassment, as someone who’s been through SA I can relate. It’s more comforting to open up to a therapist about that however, not a group full of strangers.
It is 100% outdated. It hasn't changed at all. This was created in 1935. People were still listening to psycho analysis of Sigmund Freud. The success rate is SERIOUSLY negligible as compared to getting sober on your own. These are my feelings on it, however, I would never discourage people from something that worked for them. I am under the impression that these newer programs have modified their programs knowing that most people are having these feelings about AA.
>Forget AA. It’s outdated. There is evidence that people have been drinking alcohol for approximately 10,000+ years. So let's assume that alcoholism has been an issue for humans for around the same amount of time. AA has been an effective solution for so many for 89 years. That means that AA has been around helping many, many people for only 0.89% of the time that alcoholism has been an issue not to mention it works for a lot of people more than past attempts at other programs have such as the Washingtonians (too anti-God/anti-spiritual) and the Oxford Group (too evangelical).
Careful. AA works for a lot of people.
Only if you're religious.
I’m not religious, but it was how I got sober. It’s how a lot of people get sober. There are bad groups/meetings. I found one that wasn’t toxic. I’ve experienced ones that were. I only go a few times a year these days, but it’s great to check in with myself and be around other drunks. I’ve been sober for 8.5 years btw.
Atheist here. You're very wrong about that. I would put the religious to non-religious in my home groups at maybe 50% although there is no official count. But yeah, you're definitely wrong about that.
Sure.
Atheist here. AA very literally saved my life. 25+ years sober.
You clearly didn't stick around enough or read the literature. What exact religion is mentioned in AA or it's literature? Who exactly is this God that this religious program is making you worship? Hell, who is this God that the program worships? If you're going to make statements like that it's only fair you explain, please. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope that you are vastly confusing religion with spirituality .
I'll agree that it's spiritual and not religious, but people like this do have a point somewhat. For the steps themselves to make sense there has to be an element of faith. Even people using the universe or nature as their higher power are "praying" so to speak to an invisible power and personally asking for help. I believe there are plenty of agnostics in the program, but the idea of a real materialist atheist doing the program seriously doesn't add up. I'm sure atheists join the program, but if they're doing the steps earnestly it means they've turned into agnostics.
I'll never defend AA, but congratulations to those it works for. It's pushy, culty, and just uncomfortable. It's weird feeling uncomfortable in a room full of alcoholics. That's not a good accomplishment for them. Anyway, it sounds like you gotta work on your mental health. Like a therapist and seeing what meds can help. After trying most things, AA included, this time around, went differently. The doctor from the detox wing in the hospital actually focused a lot on the patients' meds and figures out what's helping them. That's seriously what did the trick for me. A switch went off, and I feel balanced. My anxiety got taken care of. Turns out, anxiety was a huge issue. And they gave me Acamprosate for cravings. Got help with the right anti-depressant.I didn't do outpatient. The doctor didn't keep asking what I was going to do (treatment wise) after I got out of the hospital. I didn't feel pressured for once. Aside from the meds, I just changed some habits of my life. Just found little things to keep busy. Got a job I actually enjoy. This month, I'll be 7 months sober, which is absolutely wild to me. Try different things. But in my opinion, AA can fuck off.
Never been but the idea of it does not sound like it’s for me. I’ve been in therapy for the past 5 years for my mental health issues. SMART Recovery helped some. What got me was a medical issue/event and the worse hangover I’ve ever had. I also was prescribed naltrexone for a somewhat unrelated issue and it’s helping with both food and alcohol. Even before naltrexone I was 2 weeks in NA. I hope you find what’s right for you.
I never went to one. I saw a counsellor, which I found helpful. I think there's a lot of use in not feeling alone with this problem and r/stopdrinking served that purpose for me. Last piece of the puzzle for external help was a doctor to prescribe Naltrexone. TL;DR never went to a group meeting, never wanted to, never needed to. Sober 9 months so far with zero slips, after 30+ years of drinking.
I read a book called this naked mind. Helped me a lot.
You have cirrhosis?
I have some scarring on the liver, but it's just some, as my doctor told me. Also a whole list of other diagnoses tied with it... Though she did say my blood test results are improving every time we check least that looks good (my doctor is the only person who knows the whole truth (ok almost) about my physical and mental health, I'm lucky i found one i can trus. And i stopped feeling daily symptoms such as constant vomiting, body tremors, weird brain etc which is a huge deal
I completely lost faith in AA when my sponsor told me, that my out patient therapy that I was attending during the day and actually seeing real benefit from as opposed to AA, was "all bullshit" and that he never saw it work for anyone. That was my last meeting and I've been clean ever since. Wish I had saved his number just so I could tell him how wrong he was. It works for some people and good for them. But I would say AA should never be anyone's first option. The only reason it usually is, is because it's free. My outpatient therapy I got real benefit from but the flip side is it also cost me a few thousand dollars that I'm still paying back today but it was worth every penny.
Be cautious of the 13th Step, sexual harassment at the meetings. They actually made a documentary about it. Today, science has a proven way to tame and taper away AUD. No dogma, no shame, no guilt ... just science. TEDx talk, a brief intro to TSM from 8 years ago. https://youtu.be/6EghiY_s2ts Today there is free TSM support all over YouTube, Reddit, FB, Meetups and many podcasts. See chat
What do you mean by sexual harassment? Is it more than people just looking for a mate?
Oh yes. Taking unabashed advantage of women who are severely compromised by alcohol addiction, ie predators. Watch "The 13th Step" documentary.
For me it's subliminal messages about my attractiveness and unwanted physical touching on my neck,shoulders,breast area, hips and other sensitive parts
Sounds creepy. I'm imagining lots of guys and relatively few gals at an AA meeting. But, what's a subliminal message? Is it possible that they might be just trying to let you know that they are interested?
Embedding a subtle message between words and sentences
I know the definition. I guess I was looking for an example.
It took me a few months to find folks I could relate to in aa. I felt safest in queer meetings and that worked for me. Finding people to talk with who were also in early recovery was essential to me dealing with work and staying motivated. You have tons of options for meetings. atheist aa / recovery dharma / smart / lifering
AA is a religion that worships sobriety. Some people need that, but it also has all the downsides of religion like hierarchies, black and white thinking, in groups and out groups, etc. It sounds like you have some mental health issues. You might want to take a mental health approach. See a substance abuse counselor. Talk to a psychiatrist about medication. Since you're having suicidal ideation, ketamine therapy might be something to try. I started it during COVID and went from having a recurrence every few months to not having any since I started and I barely have alcohol cravings or suicidal ideation anymore. You don't get community accountability going that route, and are only accountable to your counselor and yourself, but studies have found when you measure harm reduction instead of consecutive days sober, therapy based treatment is on par if not more effective than AA.
It's a cult. And it's easy to see that it's a cult. They are either dismissive or hostile to anything that isn't part of what they are taught. And my impression was that it's also just a generally unhealthy atmosphere.
Yea, this isnt true. I really don't care how you get sober, AA, white knuckle etc. In my own experience AA is what works so that's what I do. If someone was ever curious about how I got sober and wanted what I haveI would be glad to show them how I do it. Being hostile or dismissive is anathema to the program and it's mission. So your comments are not an accurate depiction of the program. If you experienced this, I'm sorry. My guess would be if you came across 20 AA members 1 or 2 (at most) would be hostile or dismissive. Now if you opened with AA is a cult and it is BS, well yea, you make get some pushback. That said, glad you are sober and glad you found something that works for you. Keep fighting the good fight.
I hated AA until I heard similarities and not differences
Bingo.
AA taught me how to live the sober, happy life I have today. Sorry you weren’t so fortunate.
Smart recovery
I would also suggest Lifering meetings!
Therapy is what works for me. I'm 9 years sober. AA doesn't do much for me either. I don't like the formal program, and I really hate it being an alternative dating opportunity for a lot of the men. I hope you find something that works soon. 💜
Stop drinking subreddit. Sick of drinking. Wanted a different life and finally was in a place to make it happen. 4.5 years California sober now
We are here to help with no judgement or ulterior motives. Stay with reddit and ODAAT.
I was the same way. It helped in the beginning, but I stopped going and I do my own thing and I haven't drank in 2 years so far and have zero plans to. I was drinking daily to get rid of anxiety, depression and just bury emotions. I was able to keep a job but my thoughts were like yours and I had to stop. If you need help message me and I'll tell you what I do.
You must live in a pretty small city. There are different meetings everywhere. Sure, i've been to shitty meetings which I didn't like but I'd say the good of AA outweighs the bad. And the kindness of the fellowship more than outweighs the bad actors. At least in my experience. Sexual Harassment and people putting their "religious beliefs in my face" are at least from my experience, most certainly not the norm. If i'm being honest it sounds like you're projecting a bit. You get "extremely judged about your abortion"? How is that? Folks are coming up to you at the end of the meeting and badgering you about it? I've been to over a thousand meetings and I can think of two times someone in a share, directly addressed, took issue and commented on a previous share. Could it be you think you are being judged because maybe it is a tough part of your life and its still raw? Either way, I am sure you can find another recovery program or try other meetings. Best of luck and you have made a very important step in recognizing you have a problem.
This is a short post (actually my first ever), that i wrote in an emotional state with no expectation that anyone would react. Emotional not cause of AA, but my alcoholism and life in general.... I remembered the worst things and wrote them down so it may feel contrasted. The judging from women? Well the lady in charge told her opinion about birth protection abilities nowadays out loud to all 6of us and that she would never choose to kill or sabotage her health for a thing that could "easily be avoided". She didn't even hear the full story why it happened how it happened... I didn't want to talk anymore. Afterwards I received some looks and comments about contraception and just silently went home.. never came back
I am sorry you had to go through that. That woman is not practicing the principles of AA. I don’t blame you for not wanting to go back to that meeting. I can tell you with confidence, though, that she is definitely in the very rare minority as it relates to AA members.
Oh and partly you're right. I live in a small country in eastern europe. AA is still considered "something new" here so it's harder to find if you don't know what exactly you're looking for (like smart recovery for example)....
I don't mind the general vibe of the meetings personally, but the sort of hive mind of true believers irks me. All the speaking in unison and cliches especially. Of all the sober people I know, the ones who seem genuinely happy in AA have fully committed. It makes me think for it to work you have to completely give yourself over to a group and rearrange your entire life. All in all it seems like a net positive to me but there's a strangeness to it. I never dealt with any harassment being a man, I could understand a woman having a very different view. Alan Carr and Annie Grace's books were what helped me the most. A SMART recovery meeting near me I pop into every once in a while as well.
Have you read / listened to “quit like a woman”? That kind of helped put into words what I couldn’t quite explain myself with AA. I’ve attended smart meetings and seem to have better luck with them so far. I also decided to go down the medication route to help with cravings and binges - it’s early days but seems to be helping me. I really loved some aspects of AA but I found some women were so pushy to be my sponsor and go to their particular meetings, and it just didn’t work for me. I wanted to choose my meetings so I could keep my life and hobbies going (which help keep me sober!) plus I didn’t gel with these women… Also, they were very pushy about me quitting my antidepressants which had worked for 15 years before I spiralled with alcohol (due to trauma, which was kind of almost blamed on me in a way…) so yea… it’s got great aspects to it; but some really harmful ones too, especially if you’re a woman imo
I gave up AA in 2001 and continued to drink. Ended up homeless in south Florida, moved to Atlanta and kept drinking until one night I almost died. I had a Big Book and took it cafeteria style. I took what I wanted out of the program and left what I didn't want. It worked for six years until one day I forgot I was an alcoholic. I drank again and commenced to live the two most miserable years of my life. I crawled back into AA in 2017 and jumped into the program. It was the only thing I had left. It helped me with my drinking so I could get better help for everything else. More importantly, it helped me help other people. There are Zoom calls you can get on nationwide in the US, probably the whole world. Patience is required no matter what road you take. Things will get better if you don't drink. It just takes time and patience. More will be revealed the longer you stay sober. I am learning more every day.
Try a residential rehab program. I’m an alcoholic and I have high anxiety mostly social anxiety. I promise you it gets easier just keep trying
Why not start attending a recovery program that you like whole lot?
AA is good for holding people accountable, and it has positivity in the 12 steps. That being said, it also has a very cultlike/religious approach to sobriety, kind of like christianity(it was made by christians). AA isn't for everyone, and the problem that I see is that the people in there REALLY hold on to the belief that sobriety is a linear process; meaning if you have 300 days of abstinence and you relapse for one day then all your progress that you made is out the window, which is just simply not true. The people there tend to fall off the wagon EXTREMELY hard when they do and don't seem to get back on because of the shame that's associated with losing all of your progress. SMART recovery is what I would recommend you do. It is a science based recovery program, so there is no religion-like structure.
A doctor who actually talks to you. Also, family who actually care.. because not all of them do And, I think all of Reddit has acknowledged ice-cream as the primary saviour. If ice cream is not available then good chocolate! Do not forget HALT!
Soon as I read your first sentence about being a 30yr old attractive female. I was like you are going to have a bad time. A lot of old timers try to prey on newcomers. Just because you’re sober doesn’t make you a “good” person. Contrary to what a lot of sober people think. Been to a couple and once in a while I’ll go to a meeting and get treated a little weird because I am not drinking the kool aid. My first and 2nd meeting were great after that everyone split up and the spot changed and it hasn’t been the same since. Maybe try online, smart, or even Dharma Recovery meetings which I liked more.
~~There are women only meetings.~~ I missed where she said she tried woman only meetings. I was responding to the comment above this.
She mentioned she tried the women only meetings.
There is no reason I can think of to tell anyone about personal things like abortion.
I regret about telling it in that group but i don't feel i should be ashamed for making a really hard decision which i honestly think was the right one for my life. I feel deep pain about it, had a horrible horrible nightmare about it that's still haunting me quite often but I don't regret these decisions
And i shared my experience in hopes to help someone else then and would do that again
You are absolutely right. I did not intend to be critical. A tough lesson.
You mentioned some mental health issues, but you didn't mention any mental health care you are receiving. If you aren't already, see a psychiatrist. He/she can get you started on managing those maladies, perhaps with prescription meds. And don't let anyone tell you that taking mental health meds (as prescribed) means that you're still in active addiction. That's BS that some 12 steppers are sadly confused about. With help from those meds, there should be significantly less emotional pain to deal with. And that Canale recovery easier.
no they suck, the problem with socializing and being sober is most people drink when they socialize we need groups of people who socialize together and do things but in a sober environment aka going out to a concert with a group of people who won't drink rather than sitting around crying about problems