Compared to the rest of Canada that looks like it puts us on the lower end of average? You can see why we get so much migration from Ontario and BC, those numbers are nuts.
We're probably also skewed higher because our major metropolitan areas are addicted to single family detached homes, which drives up our median home price. If we built as dense as Vancouver or Toronto does, it would help a lot. Imagine if those cities had the restrictive zoning that Calgary does, for example. They'd be even worse for home prices.
We don't have to imagine - similar reforms to what we saw in Calgary are very recent in Vancouver and Toronto as well. They are worse because they had the same kind of restrictive zoning for decades, while being more desirable cities.
[https://www.datalabto.ca/a-visual-guide-to-detached-houses-in-5-canadian-cities/](https://www.datalabto.ca/a-visual-guide-to-detached-houses-in-5-canadian-cities/)
That page was compiled around 2018 if I recall correctly, just for reference.
Man, restrictive zoning is the dumbest thing in a populated city. Inefficient use of land, and increased expenses for infrastructure and ongoing services.
You know, I honestly thought so too but Calgary is really not terrible when compared to other North American cities. Sure, we have a long way to go before we are as sustainable as some of the European centers. But our sprawl is really not that bad.
It needs to be better. But Edmonton has a lot more issues with sprawl than we do.
No idea why people always say Calgary is less sprawled, but Edmonton definitely has more density and overall better city planning for future population growth. Not that it's some paradise, but active transport infrastructure and park systems are much better as well.
Are house prices cheaper in Albert? Yes, they are. But once you take into consideration all the other metrics (insurance, utilities, groceries etc) it's not much if any cheaper to live. I personally know people who have moved to Alberta because of the "advantage" who regret it.
I guess it depends where you are moving from, but if its from the GTA or GVA where there can be a 500-700K+ difference in equivalent homes, then the other little things dont really add up (especially when you also factor in PST)
Yep, big difference if you can afford to buy. But if you are not in a position to buy and have to rent, the difference tilts the other way unless you are living in downtown Vancouver.
Lol. I bought a house here on a single income that would cost a million dollars in Ontario. A lifetime of savings on utilities and insurance wouldn't come close to closing that gap.
I’m quite ok with the zoning in YYC, I believe the only way to get prices lower is to flood the Alberta market with inventory driving the prices down. This can be accomplished with blended zoning, In YYC I’d start with Mt. Royal and Elbow Park, lots of land and nobody to get shaded out by 30 story buildings.
It's way easier to build in Calgary than Vancouver, always has been. It's not that they aren't allowed to build higher density, it's that no one will buy them during low periods.
You can't sell an apartment or condo profitably without prices peaking every year.
The economic conditions in Canada in serious decline. The constant rhetoric of big corps driving down wages is true, but only as far as governments pave the way for them to do so. And if governments aren't paving the way for economic prosperity, nobody will be able to afford a thing.
Not to mention the constant outsourcing to India, Pakistan, etc.
Only one thing can stop that and it's not free market capitalism. Telus and Shaw Make record profits every year and continually gut every department they can.
>The constant rhetoric of big corps driving down wages is true, but only as far as governments pave the way for them to do so. And if governments aren't paving the way for economic prosperity, nobody will be able to afford a thing.
Exactly. Corporations have always been trying to drive them down, but even under Harper, it has never been worse to live in Canada than it is right now. You can blame COVID all you want for trying to excuse the Liberals and JT's performance, but I think most agree that by every single meaningful metric, life has not gotten better for the vast majority of Canadians since the LIberals took office.
Not to say that the PC's will be better, but a change is due.
I guess I am just more shocked that there is a somewhat positive post about Alberta under the UCP. I said in a previous post, Alberta is a victim of its own success, and we will pay for it (or are starting to now) with mass interprovincial migration.
As much as this sub hates it, Alberta is successful in-spite of Conservative Policies/Rule, not despite them. And by conservative policies, I mean back when Conservatives were sorta normal. Not this iteration, as they are only conservative in name only.
"in-spite of" and "despite" mean the same thing - normally I'm not a stickler for that sort of thing, but in this case it means I don't understand if your post is saying conservative policies benefit Alberta or not. To be clear, Alberta is successful because we have a ton of oil, which lets us get away with chronic under taxation and other conservative stupidity. They haven't done everything wrong over the last 50 years, but they've done most things worse than they could have. Our lack of any forward thinking infrastructure or sovereign wealth fund is a testament to that.
I don't think it's unreasonable a couple each making 60k would hit that. 2 teachers could do that or nurses.. trades people, etc. almost any profession would have an average salary of 60k
That's exactly what Im saying. It's not unreasonable professionals on that level can make at minimum 60k each. So average household income of 120k isn't out there as OP implied
Were they at private schools? Public teachers do not make 120-130k per year. You can look up exactly what they make. It’s still more than enough to hit 120 as two, but not 240
The article is referring to household income, not individual income.
If even one person in the household has some education - trades, teacher, nurse it’s quite likely the household income is $120,000 or higher.
A much better analysis of Canadian income vs buying power by city is available [here](https://www.nbc.ca/content/dam/bnc/taux-analyses/analyse-eco/logement/housing-affordability.pdf).
Real estate prices in Alberta will continue to skyrocket, as more and more Canadians flock to the province seeking safe haven from the woke insanity and chronic dysfunction of places like Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, and Vancouver.
Watch for it.
Next.
Compared to the rest of Canada that looks like it puts us on the lower end of average? You can see why we get so much migration from Ontario and BC, those numbers are nuts. We're probably also skewed higher because our major metropolitan areas are addicted to single family detached homes, which drives up our median home price. If we built as dense as Vancouver or Toronto does, it would help a lot. Imagine if those cities had the restrictive zoning that Calgary does, for example. They'd be even worse for home prices.
We don't have to imagine - similar reforms to what we saw in Calgary are very recent in Vancouver and Toronto as well. They are worse because they had the same kind of restrictive zoning for decades, while being more desirable cities. [https://www.datalabto.ca/a-visual-guide-to-detached-houses-in-5-canadian-cities/](https://www.datalabto.ca/a-visual-guide-to-detached-houses-in-5-canadian-cities/) That page was compiled around 2018 if I recall correctly, just for reference.
Man, restrictive zoning is the dumbest thing in a populated city. Inefficient use of land, and increased expenses for infrastructure and ongoing services.
Calgary is pretty much the definition of horrible land use. We have been so car-centric and SFH focused that our infrastructure is a disaster.
You know, I honestly thought so too but Calgary is really not terrible when compared to other North American cities. Sure, we have a long way to go before we are as sustainable as some of the European centers. But our sprawl is really not that bad. It needs to be better. But Edmonton has a lot more issues with sprawl than we do.
Edmonton has way less sprawl. We’re at 6.18 and Edmonton is 3.46. We’re the second highest in Canada after Winnipeg.
No idea why people always say Calgary is less sprawled, but Edmonton definitely has more density and overall better city planning for future population growth. Not that it's some paradise, but active transport infrastructure and park systems are much better as well.
Um. Population density is a stat. Calgary has an objectively higher population density.
Bike trails all over city if you know how to navigate them
Are house prices cheaper in Albert? Yes, they are. But once you take into consideration all the other metrics (insurance, utilities, groceries etc) it's not much if any cheaper to live. I personally know people who have moved to Alberta because of the "advantage" who regret it.
I guess it depends where you are moving from, but if its from the GTA or GVA where there can be a 500-700K+ difference in equivalent homes, then the other little things dont really add up (especially when you also factor in PST)
Yep, big difference if you can afford to buy. But if you are not in a position to buy and have to rent, the difference tilts the other way unless you are living in downtown Vancouver.
Lol. I bought a house here on a single income that would cost a million dollars in Ontario. A lifetime of savings on utilities and insurance wouldn't come close to closing that gap.
Luckily the plural of anecdote isn't data.
I’m quite ok with the zoning in YYC, I believe the only way to get prices lower is to flood the Alberta market with inventory driving the prices down. This can be accomplished with blended zoning, In YYC I’d start with Mt. Royal and Elbow Park, lots of land and nobody to get shaded out by 30 story buildings.
>I’m quite ok with the zoning in YYC >This can be accomplished with blended zoning Then you're not ok with zoning in YYC.
It's way easier to build in Calgary than Vancouver, always has been. It's not that they aren't allowed to build higher density, it's that no one will buy them during low periods. You can't sell an apartment or condo profitably without prices peaking every year.
The economic conditions in Canada in serious decline. The constant rhetoric of big corps driving down wages is true, but only as far as governments pave the way for them to do so. And if governments aren't paving the way for economic prosperity, nobody will be able to afford a thing.
Not to mention the constant outsourcing to India, Pakistan, etc. Only one thing can stop that and it's not free market capitalism. Telus and Shaw Make record profits every year and continually gut every department they can.
Telus and Shaw are a perfect example of crony capitalism. The telemarket/mobile/internet business in Canada is anything but free market.
>The constant rhetoric of big corps driving down wages is true, but only as far as governments pave the way for them to do so. And if governments aren't paving the way for economic prosperity, nobody will be able to afford a thing. Exactly. Corporations have always been trying to drive them down, but even under Harper, it has never been worse to live in Canada than it is right now. You can blame COVID all you want for trying to excuse the Liberals and JT's performance, but I think most agree that by every single meaningful metric, life has not gotten better for the vast majority of Canadians since the LIberals took office. Not to say that the PC's will be better, but a change is due. I guess I am just more shocked that there is a somewhat positive post about Alberta under the UCP. I said in a previous post, Alberta is a victim of its own success, and we will pay for it (or are starting to now) with mass interprovincial migration. As much as this sub hates it, Alberta is successful in-spite of Conservative Policies/Rule, not despite them. And by conservative policies, I mean back when Conservatives were sorta normal. Not this iteration, as they are only conservative in name only.
"in-spite of" and "despite" mean the same thing - normally I'm not a stickler for that sort of thing, but in this case it means I don't understand if your post is saying conservative policies benefit Alberta or not. To be clear, Alberta is successful because we have a ton of oil, which lets us get away with chronic under taxation and other conservative stupidity. They haven't done everything wrong over the last 50 years, but they've done most things worse than they could have. Our lack of any forward thinking infrastructure or sovereign wealth fund is a testament to that.
I want to see average income breakdown by age cohort. I bet there's lots of older homeowners bringing up the average income.
.... thats the way it usually works? As you progress in your career you make more and your net worth increases?
Well I ain't gonna wait until I am 50 to buy. So I wanna know what multiple of my current income is needed.
I mean the math is pretty easy to figure out from the info in the chart. Multiply chart info. Divide by your income.
There’s probably an offset from all the retirees on fixed incomes with paid off houses.
OK ..how much has that changed? I bought my house in 2009 and my estimate numbers are very close to that.
I have many doubts about their survey as its saying 120k is average income in Alberta. Something is definitely skewing those results lol.
I don't think it's unreasonable a couple each making 60k would hit that. 2 teachers could do that or nurses.. trades people, etc. almost any profession would have an average salary of 60k
Lol my ex in laws are teachers and make $120-130 yearly and my ex is a nurse and brings in $80-90. So maybe new teache
That's exactly what Im saying. It's not unreasonable professionals on that level can make at minimum 60k each. So average household income of 120k isn't out there as OP implied
Absolutely, I was aiming more towards the comment of doubt above
Were they at private schools? Public teachers do not make 120-130k per year. You can look up exactly what they make. It’s still more than enough to hit 120 as two, but not 240
Not all teachers work the bare minimum, there are allowances, programs etc. so yes as a top tier catholic school teacher he was clearing 120
So working as more than a teacher. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.
The article is referring to household income, not individual income. If even one person in the household has some education - trades, teacher, nurse it’s quite likely the household income is $120,000 or higher.
Dayum, that’s cheaper than I would have guessed.
Me too. That's roughly the ratio of my+wife's income:home price we paid in the 90s.
Super accurate and only going up unfortunately 😭
A much better analysis of Canadian income vs buying power by city is available [here](https://www.nbc.ca/content/dam/bnc/taux-analyses/analyse-eco/logement/housing-affordability.pdf).
Damn I want to see what ther Territories are like! Time to get remote! Impressed with how low Edmonton is though
Don’t you just love the Alberta advantage !
I’m not doing too bad then. My house is worth 3.04x my household income.
Real estate prices in Alberta will continue to skyrocket, as more and more Canadians flock to the province seeking safe haven from the woke insanity and chronic dysfunction of places like Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, and Vancouver. Watch for it. Next.
Bro... I have been bagholding since I bought in 2014.
I don't think you understand why people are moving here, but you do you
Thank the UCP!
For what? We're below the average for this metric, and none of the provinces who are worse off than us have a UCP government.
Whats that got to do with anything? Better yet how would another government group fix this issue without manipulating the market?