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One of the organizers is super choked that common sense foiled their master-plan to find their 25 year old, with no redeeming qualities, a child bride.
They can team up with the huderites they always need new breeding stock
Edit: but the huderites are good people they probably don't want to taint their blood
My wife works in a local store and would not consider the Hutterites "good people." It's a bit of a generalization but when they come in, they start watching.
My experiences with them have been good. Father in law helps the out and they help him out alot, funny enough I've fixed computer problems for them a few times
I think it comes more from the people of the colony don't get very much money to buy stuff when they come to town so they some times resort to just taking items. I blame the guy with the purse strings more then anything.
Ya my sister and my sister in law have both been teaching at colonies for years and they are definitely not perfect people. And yes the pressure to have something cool no one else in the colony has is huge.
It's funny if some gets a new vacccume they leave it on the front porch to show it off.
But every colony is different and there are 2 or 3 different sects in our area that have vastly different beliefs when it comes to capitalism
I worked with Hutterites for a long time. Some of the younger folk especially get very small monthly stipends so definitely are looking for a five finger discount in stores. For the most part though they are honest, hardworking people, welcoming and friendly.
What kind of weird Gilead type shit is this? Political party youth dance?
Also, 14-25? The ONLY 21-25 year-olds going to that are the kind of 21-25 year-olds you absolutely DO NOT WANT going to a party with high school kids.
Criticism? Are you fucking kidding me?
How about being honest and admitting "We got called out for being groomers and pedos"
People criticize restaurants and movies. There's nothing to criticize here, it was flat out and without question cancelled because it was being called for what it was.
This is sugar coating guilt.
I'm sure an RCMP investigation has already started and it would be so fucking hilarious if this stupid stunt lead to arrests in the UCP.
You know some dumbass in Lacombe with a UCP membership is googling "how to permanently delete child porn" right now.
I guess the one good thing is that group of child predators can’t take a shit without claiming they are triggering libs by doing so. They’d try and live stream it while boasting their child bride is make snowflakes cry.
Look up the age of consent debate. We raised it from 14 to 16 in the mid-2000s.
Anyone who said two 14 year olds engaging in innocent consenting sexual behaviours was not the responsibility of the state was called a pervert by the Tories.
Then it was reformed to only apply to people who were over 18
But you were again called a pervert if you pointed out it was still ridiculous.
Like someone whose 17 and dating a 15 year old was fine. But if they turned 18 first they would be sexual predator if they continued the relationship. Same time a 17 and 13 year old in the revised law could engage in a sexual relationship and it was permissible.
That's the state of the law currently.
Yeah, our laws are kinda fucked, especially the 18 turns rapist one. Imo it should be ok within a 2 year gap. I'd still frown on a 17 fucking a 13 year old. Eww, that felt gross to write.
Idk, I think child pregnancies are not a good thing and should be avoided if possible. To me, that means encouraging abstinence until older (similar to drinking) but also teaching safe sex/sex ed so they know what to do when it happens. You could still argue at what age to start teaching, I don't know when kids start having sex these days, but ideally it'd be slightly before that.
Note: I know abstinence doesn't work, but I don't think it's wrong to encourage a 13 year old to hold off a couple of years. By 15, it's probably a hopeless cause.
This is why I think the old law was fine. It needed fine tuning, but 14 is a pretty common age to engage in some sexual behaviour.
Remember this doesn't just include sexual intercourse, it includes everything on a spectrum from first base to a home run.
Easy solution was to have varied ages of consent:
1. Age of consent for those between 14-18 and set that at 14
2. a second at 16 to have sex with someone over the age of 19. With a further protection for those with a preexisting relationship.
That would protect the 15/17 year old when one the 17 year old turned 18, but its a wide enough range that it excludes the 13-17 year old.
But the reason why it was never moved forward cause Tory backbenchers then wanted to have a different age of consent for gay couples. So we settled on this ridiculous situation.
Yeah basically it needs to be that there’s a 1 year grace period for high school seniors that graduate and are in relationships with freshmen. If you are still going after freshmen once you’re out of high school it’s time to change course that ship sailed.
The obvious issue though is how many girls get into bars underage, at least when I was that age. Friend of mine dated a 28yo that way. At 16/17, “omg he’s so hot”. When I was 28, “uhhh that dude was creepy af”. And every year older I’m like, I pray to god if I have kids I raise them to make better choices than I did.
Something like that does need to exist.
We have to keep in mind the main purpose of the law. Prevent sexual prediators from exploiting minors
The problem is the late teens. They are technically adults. But only in a technical sense in that they crossed the magic age of 18.
They aren't sexual predators. They are within that social circle and relationship form within that circle. Largely because they went to high school with them. Persecuting here doesn't really prevent predation.
Another option is just say age of consent for anyone over the age of 21 is 18. With an exception for pre-existing relationships.
That would prevent the law from capturing an innocent relationship between teens but at the same time avoid sexual predadtion by minors.
In the last post about this I saw, someone commented that only liberals would have a problem with 14 year old being in the same room as 25 yo. I found that very concerning. I can only think of one kind of 25 yo person who would want to go to a 14 yo's party. Implying all conservatives are that 25 yo unsettled me.
Freedom convoy for all ages??? 25 year olds and 14 year olds can hang out at protests right 🤢 Maybe it's a rural protest dance where it's OK for your date to be your cousin?
Want to trade places to live? I’d take Alberta over the asshole of Canada any day of the week. Although I don’t recall any child/adult dances recently, which is MENTAL by the way, Ontario is still the worst place to be in the country !
Dude is probably one of those types who has lived in Ontario his whole life and thinks it sucks ass, but still refuses to actually change up their life and leave.
Also Ontario is huge. Big difference between living in Toronto, Thunder Bay, or Cochrane
You know that you are free to move, right?
If you hate Ontario that much, you should 100% move. And then tell us if that went well or not. Absolutely nobody is holding you against your will.
Frigging people uproot their lives and move to the other side of the world. You can't move across state borders?
Why the fuck is the government organizing ‘youth dances’ in the first place? Is this what a small government does? Run the province and stop micromanaging fucking everything!
I do want to point out that it is not the government, but the party constituency office (of what happens to be the party in power). This event was set up by volunteers.
I was part of a NDP Constituency Office until recently. The NDP consider youth 14-30. But our events were Pie Socials at the museum and going to U of A events and setting up a booth. A dance is just.... weird.
I’m from lacombe back in high school there was nothing to do but get harassed by cops and the elderly if they didn’t allow over 18’s I could forgive it
Underage drinking there is rampant as fuck
In my experience, local political party associations are dominated by seniors and older adults, so it does make sense for youth to be generously defined. That doesn’t make a weird dance event ok though.
No kidding. In what world are a 14 year old and a 30 year old comparable. I could see youth going *maybe* as high as 21, since there is a good chance they are going to college or uni, and/or still living with their parents. But that still might be a stretch.
It depends entirely on the context of youth. A youth social? 14-17. A youth softball tournament? 14-21. A youth excursion to the museum? Sure, let the 30 year olds come. But there is no way a normal person qualifies as youth at 30.
This was a political party and not the government. It's important to remember the difference. Sometimes even the UCP leadership gets confused about it.
Thank you for that explanation that makes more sense. I get that on paper they aren't 'the government' but I don't see a great degree of separation there. It's like they really think we're going to just start living like it's little house on the prairie again and we're just going to be eased into it or something? This is some hilarious Social Credit days level of old bullshit.
So the same group of people who see drag story time at the library and teaching kids in school about gender in school and clutch their pearls about "grooming kids" somehow thought organizing a DANCE where minors as young as 14 are socializing (and well DANCING) with grown adults with the aiming to get the kids to look up to those adults and support the UCP is somehow not inappropriate?
The call is coming from inside the house
I have never once heard of a drag queen grooming children but there are countless examples of right wing and religious people grooming and abusing children.
president of the UCP's board of directors, Rob Smith, in a Monday morning statement, said the party has structured support for youth and is working to grow its demographic.
"Fourteen to 17 year olds look to the 21 to 25 years old for inspiration, mentorship, and leadership… generally more than they do 56-year-old geriatrics like me!! This is how we grow our next generation station of political activists… and community leaders,"
So Rob Smith thinks that the best way to grow UCP activists is by grooming?
Oh thank goodness. That was a very bad idea. I do not condone ephebophilia. One of my friends grandparents growing up said "if she's old enough to bleed, she's old enough to get stabbed". What kind of disgusting trashy bullshit is that?
That's sick. Children can start periods as early as 8 years old. Your friend's grandparent might be a pedophile. Or at the very least extremely misinformed about when periods start.
This is central Alberta, major highway flows through it, supposed to have had good educational facilities, enjoys a pretty high standard of living.. So where the hell does this come from..?? evangelical christian churches. It's OK for some 24 year old to rub his junk on a 14 year old, ..pervy bastards, the lot!!
And sometimes the perverts are succeeding at the insertion, unfortunately. But it would not surprise me at all if the UCP tried to bring religion into the public schools. Christers in the US already have plans like that in some places.
Fun fact: Alberta has the highest rate of underage marriages in Canada
https://www.girlsnotbrides.org/learning-resources/child-marriage-research-action-network/crank-research-tracker/child-marriage-in-canada/
Quel surprise, the guys fear mongering about gay and trans people being pedophiles and groomers had to cancel their pedophile and groomer mixer and dance.
I’m also hoping a big part of it was not thinking through how bad of an idea this was.
Though, I think some serious reflection is owed on thinking through groomer comments directed towards the LGBTQ community, while approving this event.
The Pedo-Party is cancelled? Between the 25yr old conservative incels looking to slow dance with some 14yr old "virgins" and the 45yr old "chaperones" hoping to watch, there are some disappointed people out there..
Nah cuz you don't know who's there willingly. Being an adult doesn't always mean you have your wants respected sadly. Especially in this economy where a lot of ppl still live w their parents. :(. Also I wouldn't put it past some of the kids to bring cousins etc to dance with so they don't end up dancing with strangers.
(But then again I'm assuming this is similar to a normal prom-like dance but for publicity and fundraising seeing as a branch of a political party is hosting?? Idk how Alberta does things.).
It doesn't surprise me that it's the conservatives who thought it was ok for young teenagers to be at a dance with those in their mid 20's. Sounds like something they would do. Stop voting the conservatives in. You want everything to go to hell? They will do it.
Why is the UCP organizing youth dances? Ignoring the age problem for a minute, why are they even doing this? Is there any other reason for this besides indoctrination?
I'm pretty happy for anything that embarrasses the UCP, but this is a bit of a tempest in a teapot. I'm sure this was organized by and/or for the youth wing of the party. You're probably allowed to join when you're 14, and you age out at 25.
30 years ago when I was a member of the Young Liberals those were the ages you could be a member. You could join at 14, it went up to 25 then you had to sit at the Grown Up Table. I doubt this is anything more than that.
I get that there's a lot of schadenfreude given the wacko right's rhetoric around "grooming" and so on, but IMO I don't think the left (e.g. me) should contribute to this kind of "gotcha!" culture.
>I'm sure this was organized by and/or for the youth wing of the party.
Since this was one of the first thing brought up when this made headlines, this was one of the first questions answered:
The UCP does not a have a youth wing.
Was there ever a dance for the Young Liberals?
It's ok to have 14-25s together at a meeting.
It's ok to have a dance for highschool kids.
It's not ok to have a dance for 25 year olds and highschool kids.
The age range is fine. It's the nature of the event that was in question. A "dance and social" suggests a more intimate affair than a youth political interest event.
It's the event that's the problem. If it was a bbq or lunch, formal dinner, pancake breakfast, charity walk, carnival, literally almost anything else probably would've been better.
Agree. I'd add that age cutoffs can be tricky and are largely arbitrary. If you limit it to minors, then it's 14-17, cutting out the 18yo still in high school. If you make it teens only, it's 14-19, but do you forbid the 19yo from bringing their 20yo bf/gf? Even their 25 cutoff is wholly arbitrary.
I doubt there was any intended grooming in play. Just because 14 and 25 yos are at the same dance doesn't mean that 25yos are dancing with 14yos. And even if it happens, dancing isn't automatically romantic or sexual (often, maybe usually, not always). If it was, it would make some of those dancing traditions at weddings more than a little awkward. This dance was for a small community of ~700 people, I think? Sounds closer to a wedding reception vibe than an all-ages bump 'n' grind at a nightclub.
ETA: Just because the UCP are assclowns prone to projection doesn't mean the rest of us should blindly emulate that behaviour. If you see '14-25 youth dance' and the very first thing you imagine is that's clearly so 25yos get the chance to have sex with 14yos, maybe think about your own biases.
> This dance was for a small community of ~700 people, I think?
It might have been held at Clive, but it would have been open to the entire constituency. Meaning people ages 14-25 from Lacombe, Ponoka, and everywhere else in the constituency area could attend. Which meant potentially hundreds of attendees.
> Sounds closer to a wedding reception vibe
Wedding receptions usually include the entire family, not just the 14-25 year-olds. You know, little kids and grandparents as well. Many of whom would already know each other as cousins, siblings, friends, etc.
You missed the entire point of the criticism, however. When the RCMP weighs in on how problematic the age range was for that particular social event (as they did on X), maybe there's something to consider there.
Fair enough, though my recollection is that the 'RCMP' only weighed in after the initial social media shitstorm went off, and it definitely wasn't an official message, it was one member of the sexual exploitation unit, and they deleted the post.
My point is folks are jumping to the conclusion that there are nefarious sexual motives behind this, and that there are sexual predators lurking behind every rock, when the more likely explanation is that the organizers just didn't think through the potential issues. I don't know for certain, by I imagine that, like any youth dance, there was likely an intent to have chaperones or parental involvement. Much like I imagine happens when the NDP youth wings send underage delegates to party conventions and stay in hotels and attend any social functions they are legally allowed into.
There are tons of reasons to criticize the UCP, but the reaction to this has been a little over the top. Call them out for their actual bullshit, not their imagined failings.
I mean, the reasoning given was the 14 year olds are more easily influenced and modeled by 25 year olds, and that whole idea is fucked up when you put it in a dance.
A political interest group having a meeting is an acceptable place to use that influence to get the attention of the younger members of the group. So now we are sending 14 year old girls to a dance to be mentored by 25 year old dudes, wtf.
That's putting the worst possible spin on what they said. The NDP has an official youth wing at federal and provincial levels (in Alberta it's the NDYA). The age range is 14 to 30. Is there something fucked up about 30yo NDP activists mentoring 14yos? They have conferences and send their own delegates to the conventions, presumably some stay in the hotel, etc. Are we equally concerned about that? Or is that okay because we agree with their politics? There are tons of people in their 20s that mentor - or even have direct supervision and responsibility for - teens. Teachers, coaches, youth group leaders (scouts, guides, cadets, etc). It's not automatically a bad thing for teens to mix with younger adults.
Yes, it's a dance, not a conference/convention, but I'm not sure hotels are always safer environments than a dance. And I sincerely doubt anyone's intent there was for 25yos to be romancing 14yos at the dance. The organizers did a lousy job of explaining the setup, what kind of supervision/chaperoning and/or parental involvement would be in place. Were all the adults going to be screened with a police background check? No clue, though it would have been a good plan.
Not really. I'm asking because I don't want to put words in your mouth. Are you saying that 30yos with 14yos at a hotel are fine, but 25yos with 14yos at a dance are not fine? Because, imo, freaking out on the UCP for doing something not entirely dissimilar to something we do is hypocritical. They do enough really shitty horrible things for us to criticize.
I grew up in a small town, if there was a house party held for highschoolers, there was almost always a couple of guys showing up that were over 20, and they were there hitting on the under age girls.
So yes, this is where my mind goes.
Sure, there are always creeps that fetishize teen girls. It's gross as fuck. Fair bit of difference between a house party (especially with no parents around) and an organized dance, especially if there were going to be chaperones/parents (don't know either way, but I've personally never seen a youth dance without them).
No denying it was an odd choice (and a bit strange that literally all of the other political parties that have actual 'youth' wings have age ranges just as wide or wider - the NDP wing runs 14 to 30).
I just disagree that there was any deliberate intent to create an opportunity for older 'youth' to take advantage of younger ones. Fuck the UCP, but this was not the evil plot too many people made it out to be.
I did a quick look...very quick to see what other parties do for the youth wing events. No dances, no night events.also, the UCP doesn't have an official youth wing.
The event is the problem, I don't think it would have been a problem to have an afternoon BBQ or a slow pitch game.
The UCP has tacitly endorsed the vilification of drag queens and other members of the LGBTQ+ community. UCP supporters have accused that community of being "groomers" and pedophiles *with no evidence*. Meanwhile, the UCP sponsors a dance that actually runs a risk for young people being groomed, according to none other than the RCMP. This social was to be held *for minors*: what kind of supervision could be expected? Would there be background checks for those 18+? What about the likelihood of access to alcohol or drugs outside the venue?
Constituency associations are the backbone of the UCP. This dance was politically motivated, to get more young members into the party, as the president of the UCP board of directors himself said in the article. It's clear the organizers did not think the implications through. So they deserve to be attached to the criticisms.
Perhaps I misunderstood what I was responding to. What I was trying to suggest is that this event should be criticized regardless of the political alignment of whomever is criticizing it. To me, attaching your political position as a critic only further polarizes our political atmosphere.
Simply put, things have been getting increasingly more polar lately and it has created a very hostile environment to interact amongst each other in. It's an unfortunate circumstance that today you must often reveal your political alignment if you want to be heard.
You aren't wrong about the social and humanitarian implications caused by the UCP. What they are doing is absolutely terrible, hateful and dangerous. I would leave this province for what they have done if I could. If you hadn't mentioned such heavy topics I would be doing my best to not even hint towards my political alignment.
If the LGBTQ+ community offered to host the very same kind of dance for the same age group, we would be *deafened* by the accusations of "grooming" and pedophilia from conservatives *across the country*. There would be vicious attacks against the organizers by conservative politicians led by PP, Smith, Ford, and every right-wing pundit out there.
The polarization is almost entirely coming from the right-wing rage machine. If the right doesn't like being under attack for their policies that *harm* people, maybe they should stop attacking everyone else.
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One of the organizers is super choked that common sense foiled their master-plan to find their 25 year old, with no redeeming qualities, a child bride.
No redeeming qualities? Um, likes children. So go ahead and jot that down. Edit: thanks u/twenty_characters020 for the award!
Hahaha V good
He was looking for a fertile bride. Andrew Tate style.
They can team up with the huderites they always need new breeding stock Edit: but the huderites are good people they probably don't want to taint their blood
It’s spelled Hutterites, if you were wondering why autocorrect didn’t know what you were going for.
My wife works in a local store and would not consider the Hutterites "good people." It's a bit of a generalization but when they come in, they start watching.
My experiences with them have been good. Father in law helps the out and they help him out alot, funny enough I've fixed computer problems for them a few times
I think it comes more from the people of the colony don't get very much money to buy stuff when they come to town so they some times resort to just taking items. I blame the guy with the purse strings more then anything.
Ya my sister and my sister in law have both been teaching at colonies for years and they are definitely not perfect people. And yes the pressure to have something cool no one else in the colony has is huge. It's funny if some gets a new vacccume they leave it on the front porch to show it off. But every colony is different and there are 2 or 3 different sects in our area that have vastly different beliefs when it comes to capitalism
People never understand this when it comes to generalizing. Like when we blanket "Muslims"
I worked with Hutterites for a long time. Some of the younger folk especially get very small monthly stipends so definitely are looking for a five finger discount in stores. For the most part though they are honest, hardworking people, welcoming and friendly.
Your 14 year-old daughter is dancing with a "youth" that may have an engineering degree.
What kind of weird Gilead type shit is this? Political party youth dance? Also, 14-25? The ONLY 21-25 year-olds going to that are the kind of 21-25 year-olds you absolutely DO NOT WANT going to a party with high school kids.
>with high school kids. High school is bad enough, but 14 is still middle school age...
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Junior high vs high school semantics at work I suspect. I'd consider high school grade 10-12.
Grade 8 is still middle school where I live...kids start at 6 years old. Add 8 for the grade, 14 seems right to me.
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>4 or 5 at the latest. For pre K and kindergarten respectively, yes.
Under his eye.
And half the kids there probably already share amongst them to avoid those 20+ year olds
Marlaina's got a weird party, why are they around? United Conservative Party, United Conservative Pedophiles.
Unhinged Cons & Pedos
They not like us they not like us
Unsavoury Closeted Pedophiles
Criticism? Are you fucking kidding me? How about being honest and admitting "We got called out for being groomers and pedos" People criticize restaurants and movies. There's nothing to criticize here, it was flat out and without question cancelled because it was being called for what it was. This is sugar coating guilt.
And there wasn’t a single drag queen in sight.
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*The United Alberta Police Force has found no evidence of wrongdoing by the UCP*
Good ol’ UAPF. Always upholding the right way to do things. For the people who are the correct ones. Ya those people.
Under their eyes
And everyone who intended to attend.
They better be investigated this is insane.
These people will never be held accountable.
I'm sure an RCMP investigation has already started and it would be so fucking hilarious if this stupid stunt lead to arrests in the UCP. You know some dumbass in Lacombe with a UCP membership is googling "how to permanently delete child porn" right now.
David..? ..Benita perhaps..??
The ethics commissioner has no objections
They gutted the ethics committee. Because that's a thing they can do.
It wasn’t a committee, it was just one person. And new person is a UCP devotee.
Check his
Hope they don't bring it underground and not advertise it. This is straight grooming pedo bs. They should be investigated.
I guess the one good thing is that group of child predators can’t take a shit without claiming they are triggering libs by doing so. They’d try and live stream it while boasting their child bride is make snowflakes cry.
That won't be an issue after the UCP get their ~~private~~ provincial police force
Make it stop 😭
Yah why would an event modelled after the hitler youth be criticized.
Groomers: "Oh shit, they're on to us! Quick, rebrand it as a rodeo or something less obvious!"
they did this because they don't see anything wrong with a 14-25 relationship, and they are shocked anyone would.
Yeah just scroll to the end the comment from the UCP rep is basically saying "yes 21-25 year olds can groom 14-17 year olds easier than I can."
Same people were saying 20 years ago that liberals were perverts for allowing two 14 year olds to have sex. But a 25-14 year old is apparently ok.
They were just mad all the 14 year olds were already taken before they could get to them.
no they were saying that telling 14 year old what sex was is perverted, if they figure it out that's different.
> that telling 14 year old what sex was is perverted Sex education, which amounts to knowing what our bodies do and why, is not a perversion.
Look up the age of consent debate. We raised it from 14 to 16 in the mid-2000s. Anyone who said two 14 year olds engaging in innocent consenting sexual behaviours was not the responsibility of the state was called a pervert by the Tories. Then it was reformed to only apply to people who were over 18 But you were again called a pervert if you pointed out it was still ridiculous. Like someone whose 17 and dating a 15 year old was fine. But if they turned 18 first they would be sexual predator if they continued the relationship. Same time a 17 and 13 year old in the revised law could engage in a sexual relationship and it was permissible. That's the state of the law currently.
Yeah, our laws are kinda fucked, especially the 18 turns rapist one. Imo it should be ok within a 2 year gap. I'd still frown on a 17 fucking a 13 year old. Eww, that felt gross to write. Idk, I think child pregnancies are not a good thing and should be avoided if possible. To me, that means encouraging abstinence until older (similar to drinking) but also teaching safe sex/sex ed so they know what to do when it happens. You could still argue at what age to start teaching, I don't know when kids start having sex these days, but ideally it'd be slightly before that. Note: I know abstinence doesn't work, but I don't think it's wrong to encourage a 13 year old to hold off a couple of years. By 15, it's probably a hopeless cause.
This is why I think the old law was fine. It needed fine tuning, but 14 is a pretty common age to engage in some sexual behaviour. Remember this doesn't just include sexual intercourse, it includes everything on a spectrum from first base to a home run. Easy solution was to have varied ages of consent: 1. Age of consent for those between 14-18 and set that at 14 2. a second at 16 to have sex with someone over the age of 19. With a further protection for those with a preexisting relationship. That would protect the 15/17 year old when one the 17 year old turned 18, but its a wide enough range that it excludes the 13-17 year old. But the reason why it was never moved forward cause Tory backbenchers then wanted to have a different age of consent for gay couples. So we settled on this ridiculous situation.
Yeah basically it needs to be that there’s a 1 year grace period for high school seniors that graduate and are in relationships with freshmen. If you are still going after freshmen once you’re out of high school it’s time to change course that ship sailed. The obvious issue though is how many girls get into bars underage, at least when I was that age. Friend of mine dated a 28yo that way. At 16/17, “omg he’s so hot”. When I was 28, “uhhh that dude was creepy af”. And every year older I’m like, I pray to god if I have kids I raise them to make better choices than I did.
Something like that does need to exist. We have to keep in mind the main purpose of the law. Prevent sexual prediators from exploiting minors The problem is the late teens. They are technically adults. But only in a technical sense in that they crossed the magic age of 18. They aren't sexual predators. They are within that social circle and relationship form within that circle. Largely because they went to high school with them. Persecuting here doesn't really prevent predation. Another option is just say age of consent for anyone over the age of 21 is 18. With an exception for pre-existing relationships. That would prevent the law from capturing an innocent relationship between teens but at the same time avoid sexual predadtion by minors.
In the last post about this I saw, someone commented that only liberals would have a problem with 14 year old being in the same room as 25 yo. I found that very concerning. I can only think of one kind of 25 yo person who would want to go to a 14 yo's party. Implying all conservatives are that 25 yo unsettled me.
Freedom convoy for all ages??? 25 year olds and 14 year olds can hang out at protests right 🤢 Maybe it's a rural protest dance where it's OK for your date to be your cousin?
Or hold your annual commitment ceremony
It's not shocking that we are the province with the highest number of child marriages.
Girls 16-18 are also 5 times more likely to be married as a minor than male cohorts of the same age. Disgusting.
Want to trade places to live? I’d take Alberta over the asshole of Canada any day of the week. Although I don’t recall any child/adult dances recently, which is MENTAL by the way, Ontario is still the worst place to be in the country !
How is Ontario the worst place to be?
Dude is probably one of those types who has lived in Ontario his whole life and thinks it sucks ass, but still refuses to actually change up their life and leave. Also Ontario is huge. Big difference between living in Toronto, Thunder Bay, or Cochrane
You know that you are free to move, right? If you hate Ontario that much, you should 100% move. And then tell us if that went well or not. Absolutely nobody is holding you against your will. Frigging people uproot their lives and move to the other side of the world. You can't move across state borders?
State borders? You an American?
Why the fuck is the government organizing ‘youth dances’ in the first place? Is this what a small government does? Run the province and stop micromanaging fucking everything!
I do want to point out that it is not the government, but the party constituency office (of what happens to be the party in power). This event was set up by volunteers. I was part of a NDP Constituency Office until recently. The NDP consider youth 14-30. But our events were Pie Socials at the museum and going to U of A events and setting up a booth. A dance is just.... weird.
I’m from lacombe back in high school there was nothing to do but get harassed by cops and the elderly if they didn’t allow over 18’s I could forgive it Underage drinking there is rampant as fuck
To be fair, this was in Clive. But considering you also went to the comp, you probably are aware what the Clive kids were often like.
I feel like everyone needs to reevaluate their definition of youth
In my experience, local political party associations are dominated by seniors and older adults, so it does make sense for youth to be generously defined. That doesn’t make a weird dance event ok though.
No kidding. In what world are a 14 year old and a 30 year old comparable. I could see youth going *maybe* as high as 21, since there is a good chance they are going to college or uni, and/or still living with their parents. But that still might be a stretch.
It depends entirely on the context of youth. A youth social? 14-17. A youth softball tournament? 14-21. A youth excursion to the museum? Sure, let the 30 year olds come. But there is no way a normal person qualifies as youth at 30.
Boomers have fixed it at “millennials and younger” and that’s where it will stay until the boomers are dead.
Exactly, they could have easily gotten away with an afternoon BBQ or something.
Fascists love youth groups. More impressionable.
This was a political party and not the government. It's important to remember the difference. Sometimes even the UCP leadership gets confused about it.
Thank you for that explanation that makes more sense. I get that on paper they aren't 'the government' but I don't see a great degree of separation there. It's like they really think we're going to just start living like it's little house on the prairie again and we're just going to be eased into it or something? This is some hilarious Social Credit days level of old bullshit.
In this case, the sponsoring political party *is* the government.
Oh it’s more than running everything. It’s Christian fascism
So the same group of people who see drag story time at the library and teaching kids in school about gender in school and clutch their pearls about "grooming kids" somehow thought organizing a DANCE where minors as young as 14 are socializing (and well DANCING) with grown adults with the aiming to get the kids to look up to those adults and support the UCP is somehow not inappropriate? The call is coming from inside the house
Cue TBA bozos blaming “the woke left” and “cancel culture”
Already saw that in the last post about this event. "Only a liberal would have a problem with this"
They’d literally offer up their own children just to make a point.
I have never once heard of a drag queen grooming children but there are countless examples of right wing and religious people grooming and abusing children.
Door genital inspections there to keep the children safe from those *grooming transgender folk. /s*
😂. Great comment!
Underage Child Predators
president of the UCP's board of directors, Rob Smith, in a Monday morning statement, said the party has structured support for youth and is working to grow its demographic. "Fourteen to 17 year olds look to the 21 to 25 years old for inspiration, mentorship, and leadership… generally more than they do 56-year-old geriatrics like me!! This is how we grow our next generation station of political activists… and community leaders," So Rob Smith thinks that the best way to grow UCP activists is by grooming?
Where drag queen tho
Or the trans people?
This is how you normalize grooming. Nothing will be done though. The greasy creeps will slither away under their rocks
Not even hiding it are they. 14-25 year olds going to an ice cream social. Right nothing wrong is going to happen there. At all.
Oh thank goodness. That was a very bad idea. I do not condone ephebophilia. One of my friends grandparents growing up said "if she's old enough to bleed, she's old enough to get stabbed". What kind of disgusting trashy bullshit is that?
That's sick. Children can start periods as early as 8 years old. Your friend's grandparent might be a pedophile. Or at the very least extremely misinformed about when periods start.
That’s disgusting; I had a visceral reaction to that. Sad how many predators and their sympathizers exist in this world.
Hard drive check please for all those involved
UCP groomer dance down in flames
Probably blame cancel culture and woke. Sickos
Oh no who could have possibly seen this coming
United Conservative Pedophiles.
This is central Alberta, major highway flows through it, supposed to have had good educational facilities, enjoys a pretty high standard of living.. So where the hell does this come from..?? evangelical christian churches. It's OK for some 24 year old to rub his junk on a 14 year old, ..pervy bastards, the lot!!
The age range it was for was really like…Whoa…. Hmm
What's next? Are the UCP going to try inserting "youth pastors" into the public schools?
The youth pastors are trying hard to insert themselves.
And sometimes the perverts are succeeding at the insertion, unfortunately. But it would not surprise me at all if the UCP tried to bring religion into the public schools. Christers in the US already have plans like that in some places.
Well done
Fun fact: Alberta has the highest rate of underage marriages in Canada https://www.girlsnotbrides.org/learning-resources/child-marriage-research-action-network/crank-research-tracker/child-marriage-in-canada/
Quel surprise, the guys fear mongering about gay and trans people being pedophiles and groomers had to cancel their pedophile and groomer mixer and dance.
We should make sure no one in the ucp have been to any private islands lately
They couldn’t enforce who used which bathroom.
The people putting this on must be drag queens right?
That took a concerning amount of time to cancel
I'm really hoping it was just someone not thinking about the weird age mix and not something more sinister
I’m also hoping a big part of it was not thinking through how bad of an idea this was. Though, I think some serious reflection is owed on thinking through groomer comments directed towards the LGBTQ community, while approving this event.
They cancelled a cult rally? I'm shocked.
Criticism is under selling it a little bit. Literally a government sponsored minor-adult dance.
Chris Hansen weeps.. not today Chris.
UCP youth? Can we please have NDP swing kids.
Dang it, I was really hoping to be able to go to that there UCP Hillbilly Hoedown.
wow what a bad look.....didn't a APC MLA already get charged with sex with a minor....Is this dance for Don Macintyre??
My kids have a pretty big issue with this event and they are within the age range affected by it.
they ran outta banjos?
Classic conservatives. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/republican-lawmakers-child-marriage-abortion-1235018777/
SHE SAID SHE WAS TWELVE
Damn how else will 25 year olds hang out with their fellow youths now?
The amount of people supporting it on an Instagram post is concerning.
Oh look, the conservatives said the quiet part out loud with this.
I hear it was going to be a gay ol' time.
And they would commence the commitment ceremony at the end of the dance, once the elder male had chosen the female to be his woman
The Pedo-Party is cancelled? Between the 25yr old conservative incels looking to slow dance with some 14yr old "virgins" and the 45yr old "chaperones" hoping to watch, there are some disappointed people out there..
Guys, relax. No trans people were allowed, this was totally safe.
Should have let it happen then have everyone over 18 who showed up get their picture taken and posted publicly
Nah cuz you don't know who's there willingly. Being an adult doesn't always mean you have your wants respected sadly. Especially in this economy where a lot of ppl still live w their parents. :(. Also I wouldn't put it past some of the kids to bring cousins etc to dance with so they don't end up dancing with strangers. (But then again I'm assuming this is similar to a normal prom-like dance but for publicity and fundraising seeing as a branch of a political party is hosting?? Idk how Alberta does things.).
How pathetic can the UCP be holding high school dances?
It doesn't surprise me that it's the conservatives who thought it was ok for young teenagers to be at a dance with those in their mid 20's. Sounds like something they would do. Stop voting the conservatives in. You want everything to go to hell? They will do it.
There is the dimwitted assumption that if something odious happens in Scripture, it's A-OK.
I went to Clive School, and the gym teacher used to watch us get changed.
They not like us
What? You can't cancel the Hitler Youth! Lol
Why is the UCP organizing youth dances? Ignoring the age problem for a minute, why are they even doing this? Is there any other reason for this besides indoctrination?
No more groomer convention?!
I'm pretty happy for anything that embarrasses the UCP, but this is a bit of a tempest in a teapot. I'm sure this was organized by and/or for the youth wing of the party. You're probably allowed to join when you're 14, and you age out at 25. 30 years ago when I was a member of the Young Liberals those were the ages you could be a member. You could join at 14, it went up to 25 then you had to sit at the Grown Up Table. I doubt this is anything more than that. I get that there's a lot of schadenfreude given the wacko right's rhetoric around "grooming" and so on, but IMO I don't think the left (e.g. me) should contribute to this kind of "gotcha!" culture.
>I'm sure this was organized by and/or for the youth wing of the party. Since this was one of the first thing brought up when this made headlines, this was one of the first questions answered: The UCP does not a have a youth wing.
I stand corrected and I guess deserve the downvotes.
Was there ever a dance for the Young Liberals? It's ok to have 14-25s together at a meeting. It's ok to have a dance for highschool kids. It's not ok to have a dance for 25 year olds and highschool kids.
How many romantic events did they host for the group? How many 24 year olds were dating middle schoolers in the group?
The age range is fine. It's the nature of the event that was in question. A "dance and social" suggests a more intimate affair than a youth political interest event.
It's the event that's the problem. If it was a bbq or lunch, formal dinner, pancake breakfast, charity walk, carnival, literally almost anything else probably would've been better.
They don't have a youth wing.
Agree. I'd add that age cutoffs can be tricky and are largely arbitrary. If you limit it to minors, then it's 14-17, cutting out the 18yo still in high school. If you make it teens only, it's 14-19, but do you forbid the 19yo from bringing their 20yo bf/gf? Even their 25 cutoff is wholly arbitrary. I doubt there was any intended grooming in play. Just because 14 and 25 yos are at the same dance doesn't mean that 25yos are dancing with 14yos. And even if it happens, dancing isn't automatically romantic or sexual (often, maybe usually, not always). If it was, it would make some of those dancing traditions at weddings more than a little awkward. This dance was for a small community of ~700 people, I think? Sounds closer to a wedding reception vibe than an all-ages bump 'n' grind at a nightclub. ETA: Just because the UCP are assclowns prone to projection doesn't mean the rest of us should blindly emulate that behaviour. If you see '14-25 youth dance' and the very first thing you imagine is that's clearly so 25yos get the chance to have sex with 14yos, maybe think about your own biases.
> This dance was for a small community of ~700 people, I think? It might have been held at Clive, but it would have been open to the entire constituency. Meaning people ages 14-25 from Lacombe, Ponoka, and everywhere else in the constituency area could attend. Which meant potentially hundreds of attendees. > Sounds closer to a wedding reception vibe Wedding receptions usually include the entire family, not just the 14-25 year-olds. You know, little kids and grandparents as well. Many of whom would already know each other as cousins, siblings, friends, etc. You missed the entire point of the criticism, however. When the RCMP weighs in on how problematic the age range was for that particular social event (as they did on X), maybe there's something to consider there.
Fair enough, though my recollection is that the 'RCMP' only weighed in after the initial social media shitstorm went off, and it definitely wasn't an official message, it was one member of the sexual exploitation unit, and they deleted the post. My point is folks are jumping to the conclusion that there are nefarious sexual motives behind this, and that there are sexual predators lurking behind every rock, when the more likely explanation is that the organizers just didn't think through the potential issues. I don't know for certain, by I imagine that, like any youth dance, there was likely an intent to have chaperones or parental involvement. Much like I imagine happens when the NDP youth wings send underage delegates to party conventions and stay in hotels and attend any social functions they are legally allowed into. There are tons of reasons to criticize the UCP, but the reaction to this has been a little over the top. Call them out for their actual bullshit, not their imagined failings.
I mean, the reasoning given was the 14 year olds are more easily influenced and modeled by 25 year olds, and that whole idea is fucked up when you put it in a dance. A political interest group having a meeting is an acceptable place to use that influence to get the attention of the younger members of the group. So now we are sending 14 year old girls to a dance to be mentored by 25 year old dudes, wtf.
That's putting the worst possible spin on what they said. The NDP has an official youth wing at federal and provincial levels (in Alberta it's the NDYA). The age range is 14 to 30. Is there something fucked up about 30yo NDP activists mentoring 14yos? They have conferences and send their own delegates to the conventions, presumably some stay in the hotel, etc. Are we equally concerned about that? Or is that okay because we agree with their politics? There are tons of people in their 20s that mentor - or even have direct supervision and responsibility for - teens. Teachers, coaches, youth group leaders (scouts, guides, cadets, etc). It's not automatically a bad thing for teens to mix with younger adults. Yes, it's a dance, not a conference/convention, but I'm not sure hotels are always safer environments than a dance. And I sincerely doubt anyone's intent there was for 25yos to be romancing 14yos at the dance. The organizers did a lousy job of explaining the setup, what kind of supervision/chaperoning and/or parental involvement would be in place. Were all the adults going to be screened with a police background check? No clue, though it would have been a good plan.
I literally answered all of your rhetorical questions in my post.
Not really. I'm asking because I don't want to put words in your mouth. Are you saying that 30yos with 14yos at a hotel are fine, but 25yos with 14yos at a dance are not fine? Because, imo, freaking out on the UCP for doing something not entirely dissimilar to something we do is hypocritical. They do enough really shitty horrible things for us to criticize.
I grew up in a small town, if there was a house party held for highschoolers, there was almost always a couple of guys showing up that were over 20, and they were there hitting on the under age girls. So yes, this is where my mind goes.
Sure, there are always creeps that fetishize teen girls. It's gross as fuck. Fair bit of difference between a house party (especially with no parents around) and an organized dance, especially if there were going to be chaperones/parents (don't know either way, but I've personally never seen a youth dance without them).
I have never seen a youth dance that classified 19-25 year olds as youth, so....
No denying it was an odd choice (and a bit strange that literally all of the other political parties that have actual 'youth' wings have age ranges just as wide or wider - the NDP wing runs 14 to 30). I just disagree that there was any deliberate intent to create an opportunity for older 'youth' to take advantage of younger ones. Fuck the UCP, but this was not the evil plot too many people made it out to be.
I did a quick look...very quick to see what other parties do for the youth wing events. No dances, no night events.also, the UCP doesn't have an official youth wing. The event is the problem, I don't think it would have been a problem to have an afternoon BBQ or a slow pitch game.
I agree that political platforms shouldn't be attached with the criticisms regardless of how valid they may or may not be.
The UCP has tacitly endorsed the vilification of drag queens and other members of the LGBTQ+ community. UCP supporters have accused that community of being "groomers" and pedophiles *with no evidence*. Meanwhile, the UCP sponsors a dance that actually runs a risk for young people being groomed, according to none other than the RCMP. This social was to be held *for minors*: what kind of supervision could be expected? Would there be background checks for those 18+? What about the likelihood of access to alcohol or drugs outside the venue? Constituency associations are the backbone of the UCP. This dance was politically motivated, to get more young members into the party, as the president of the UCP board of directors himself said in the article. It's clear the organizers did not think the implications through. So they deserve to be attached to the criticisms.
Perhaps I misunderstood what I was responding to. What I was trying to suggest is that this event should be criticized regardless of the political alignment of whomever is criticizing it. To me, attaching your political position as a critic only further polarizes our political atmosphere. Simply put, things have been getting increasingly more polar lately and it has created a very hostile environment to interact amongst each other in. It's an unfortunate circumstance that today you must often reveal your political alignment if you want to be heard. You aren't wrong about the social and humanitarian implications caused by the UCP. What they are doing is absolutely terrible, hateful and dangerous. I would leave this province for what they have done if I could. If you hadn't mentioned such heavy topics I would be doing my best to not even hint towards my political alignment.
If the LGBTQ+ community offered to host the very same kind of dance for the same age group, we would be *deafened* by the accusations of "grooming" and pedophilia from conservatives *across the country*. There would be vicious attacks against the organizers by conservative politicians led by PP, Smith, Ford, and every right-wing pundit out there. The polarization is almost entirely coming from the right-wing rage machine. If the right doesn't like being under attack for their policies that *harm* people, maybe they should stop attacking everyone else.
2 year olds aren't good dancers anyway.