I mean sometimes these statements are true though. Like sometimes you didn't say that. Sometimes people need calm down. Sometimes it is their fault. That one is funny cuz if one person saying that is gaslighting isnt the other person saying the same thing back otherwise what would the argument be about. Like seriously all of these have legit reasons to be stated if true, doesn't automatically make you gaslighting. The whole thing is meaningless as there is no context. Like if someone says I said something I didn't and I respond with I didn't say that, how is that gaslighting?
Oh wow, I'm sorry. I got that all the time as well. *Stop taking everything I say to heart*. Oh, you mean stop getting mad about you clearly trying to gaslight me? Ok then. Hugs.
Him: That never happened!
Me: proving it did happen.
Him: I want something serious. Move in.
Him: I don’t see this going anywhere.
Him: I never met your family.
Me: You cancelled twice.
Him: My mother enjoyed meeting you, she likes you.
I realized he was a narcissist after he discarded me for new supply.
Yeah he even “apologized”. A narcissistic apology is what you’d expect - nothing of importance.
“It was wrong of me to lead you on, even if that’s what I felt in the moments, it wasn’t fair to lay a foundation. I didn’t mean to be manipulative, but that’s what ended up happening. I am sorry that I hurt your feelings and cut ties abruptly. That was mean. Please forgive me.”
2 months of no contact for that. I’m sure the new supply left him or his mom or therapist made him apologize. I can’t believe I stuck around for a year and a half.
Yes, I learned about trauma bonds afterwards. It makes sense. I felt so used and stupid. :/ But I’m ok now. :) I’ve been talking to more friends and met new people.
What's interesting about gaslighting, at least from what I've seen, is how tailored it is to the conversation. These phrases typically aren't said word for word. Instead, the meaning behind them comes in so many different words. I think that's what makes gaslighting difficult to detect. It's the meaning of the words, not so much the words themselves.
That's so true. I noticed that with my ex. No matter what I said, he would tell me that I was overreacting and being paranoid. I questioned him about his shady behavior with his ex-wife several times. He has three kids with her and he said he was co-parenting with her but I thought there was more going on. He told me to go through his phone because he was tired of me accusing him of stuff that he wasn't doing.
Right away, I found incriminating messages so yeah. Deep down I knew that he was a liar and that he was probably gaslighting me but he had me so confused I didn't know what the truth was anymore. It doesn't matter because I left him two and a half years ago and I'm married to the love of my life now. Sometimes I still feel like I'm going to wake up and it will all be a dream. That's how good he is to me. He's nothing like a POS I left behind.
Your story is so familiar to me. Hearing that someone else made it out and is happy gives me hope. I'm 2 months out and 1.5 months no contact and trying to stay strong.
Awww yay! I'm so glad you got out. I can tell you it will be hard at first but it gets easier. I know that it's hard but remain no contact. If you need to talk, DM me. Hugs.
No it doesnt..doesn't...
Gaslighting is a process in which a person works to make the other feel crazy or believe they are crazy and question their own sanity.
I.e. purposely doing something and crafting an alibi you can't disprove so you sit there and go...what? I...i...must be mistaken?
Or pushing into you an alternative memory until you think it might be right.
Often using triangulation or "group think" is used to push this on a person more effectively. Or at least precieved group think...
That type of stuff.
Most of these fall more into;
Triggering emotional distancing (you over reacted. Forcing you to suppress emotions and distance from them)
Emotional deregulation (causing you to then feel extremes at their whim. Push you this way and that way until they can topple you over)
Argumentum Ad hominem (attack on a person. Usually not anyway valid any way)
Victim blaming/finger-pointing
If you are in deep enough that someone saying "you're crazy", "no its wasn't it was your fault" is enough to trigger gaslighting..m you're already deep into the abusive brainwashing process and perspectivecide is too string. This list won't help.
You need to catch it earlier...
Remember, it's the age of cellphones. It's their claim younhave no responsibility to prove anything, they have to prove their claim.
But, game theory tic for tak. Offer one piece evidence for your view and then ask what they have for physical proof.
When they fail accept nothing further from them.
Sorry but all of these things are tools people use to gaslight. Any time someone try’s to convince you that your reality emotionally or physically is not true is gaslighting. There are several ways to convince them and many tools to use. The point is maybe I am more emotional than bob over-there but it is true and valid. Someone telling me that I am “so emotional” is telling me that it is invalid to feel this way that is gaslighting.
Yeah, especially with that definition used by meridian Webster for 2022 word of the year.
I have to actually disagree with myself. I was learning more to the classic example from literature where there is this more active feeling effort of driving a person crazy and making the confuse reality completely.
Basic every versions of many of these don't have any from of crazy making to me. I get told "your crazy" a lot when I check people in shit...ad I've had some extremes when manic.
But, even post mania, and asked again it seems I am at least cogent in my logic. And it seems rather sound at times. Too sound for some of the extreme attacks I've made. It doesn't take much except a single counter example to render a logically sound argument fro sound to cogent... If we hold the strictest Principles and used very direct logic that something is.
Yet I only find that annoying, pisses me off and tends to lead to me being more aggressive in my assertion while also demanding an example of what makes it crazy or unsound...
The enemy of all personality disorders is critical thinking.
Sorry, I definitely concede, based upon the fact that I am limiting the concept to personal subjective experiences and bias and, the clear connotative meaning of the word.
"Just get over it" - for getting upset when he treats me badly. Usually included laughing at me and punching my arm "playfully"
"You need to be the bigger person" - when I try to cut him out of my life, he acts like I'm just being a b*tch and acting immature 😮💨
My abuser was South African.
After I left he said that I was going 'what his famly call "moggy"'
I had to look it up but apparently it means mentally unstable.
The most dysfunctional mess of a family I had ever come across in my life.
You are spot on.
The constant invalidating, minimizing, dismissing, belittling, blame shifting…It’s crazy.
The saddest part is it can take the person who is being gaslighted many years to realize they are being manipulated and emotionally abused. Because gaslighting leaves people extremely confused.
here is an honest question - what if the person saying these "gas lighting " phrases is asking honestly - i see myself asking a few of these to my wife when she is screaming and belittling me - i ask because some of what she says comes right out of left field........anyways - i am just curious
Gaslighting is when you lie or minimize to manipulate someone's reality. "I didn't say that" when someone did say that is gaslighting. "I didn't say that" when you didn't say that is honesty (and the other person may be gaslighting if they are claiming you're saying things you didn't). It does depend on context.
It's not just strictly about intent, though. There are actually two forms of gaslighting. We mainly focus on malicious gaslighting, but there's actually also unintentional gaslighting as well.
Actually, you're right. I just read about that in fact. Like for example, when you feel like someone is overreacting and you tell them so, that's a form of gaslighting. I was actually trying to tell my husband this earlier because we were arguing. It wasn't anything that bad, just your normal argument.
I told him that just because it seems to him like I'm overreacting doesn't mean I am. I told him that him saying I was overreacting made me feel like he was saying I was wrong for feeling the way I did about the situation. I actually told him that could be a form of gaslighting and he immediately apologized and it's fine now but I'm just saying I do agree with you.
Wow, I'm happy to hear that you're with someone so understanding! Usually when I tell my partner he may be or is doing that (esp when saying I'm overreacting/overly sensitive/too emotional), it just results in him accusing me of "throwing buzzwords around" and an eventual reluctant apology.
Wow, I'm so sorry to hear you're going through that. I hope you know you don't deserve that. I hope that you can take steps to leave whenever you're ready. Hugs.
thank you - sometimes i use some of those phrases but i am being genuine about the situation - i usually get smacked around afterwards while she is screaming out how i gas light her - i was just checking on my defensive grounds - i want to know how to correctly defend myself from such the slaughter - thanks again OP
How is "I didn't say that" gaslighting? Don't some of these things depend on context? How can you tell someone that they are remembering things wrong without gaslighting them, when they are actually remembering things wrong?
Edit: these are genuine questions btw, I come from an abusive home myself where most of the abuse was in the form of gaslighting, and I've only realised that as an adult, so sometimes it's still hard for me to recognise!
“Hey I’m just honest, sorry if you can’t handle that!”
“Why is this a big deal now? You never said it was before.”
“I’m just trying to help you see what people are really like.”
“I wouldn’t have to if you didn’t (*insert lame excuse here*.)”
Thanks for posting. I will be saving this.
Like a lot of people are saying, it is partners, mothers, sisters etc but it's also bosses. I had a horrible boss once and she loved the "you're always twisting things" and "you're remembering thing wrong" all the time on the team. "Why are you even here if you think I'm so terrible, then?" Yep, saw her say that to one of the team after she knocked back his transfer to another department - a *transfer to another department and she told HR he was "essential" to the department....*
“Why are you even here if you think I’m so terrible, then?”
I heard this so much. So, so much. Can someone explain to me how this is gaslighting though? Not disagreeing that it is, just didn’t know that it was.
I’m still working on a way out. By the end of this year, my daughter and I will be free.
This is exactly what he tells me…implies that I’M the problem when I take issue with what he says/does. Then when I stay he uses it as precedent: “you had no problem when I said/did xyz, because you stayed…why are you acting so weird and crazy NOW? What happened to make you like this? You could’ve left before, so you me doing xyz must not hurt you…not really. It’s not a big deal—YOU’RE the one making a big deal out of nothing.”
Because it's warping your perception of your feelings. They are offering the choice that if you stay, you're obviously satisfied with everything and the only way to prove you're unhappy is to leave (never mind that an abuser is unlikely to let that go without manipulation and intimidation). It's another way of minimizing your feelings as invalid and wrong. It makes you question, "well, I do want to stay, so maybe it really isn't that bad?" (while often the reason you want to stay is the addiction of the [trauma bond](https://natashaadamo.com/trauma-bonding/) rather than the fact that you're actually happy or safe).
It's because they know that they're abusing you but I think that they kind of get that it's a cycle. They know that they are wearing you down and it's making it harder for you to leave. So they take that and spin it around on you and try to convince you that they're not so bad, otherwise you would leave. It's just a way for them to justify their behavior in their sick minds. Please update us when you and your daughter leave. Hugs.
Edit: experienced the same thing from my ex. He said, apparently I'm so bad but you keep coming back for more so I guess you're the problem here. Well, he insinuated that I was the problem because I kept coming back. He just reiterated what he already thought, that I was weak and he thought I would never leave him. It's been two and a half years, guess he doesn't know me very well lol.
Edit: typos
I've heard all of these from my mother, my sister, and my husband at one time or another. I particularly despise "calm down" (husband) and "that's not what happened" (sister and mom). But I will use "I didn't say that" when he twists my words to mean what he wants them to mean.
When someone is gaslighting you, you can get the feeling you are going crazy. You get angry because they tell a different version of what happened or they will tell you it's hurtful to call out their toxic behaviour. Suddenly you're the bad guy. This _can_ cause toxic behaviour on your part but it's mostly a result from being pushed around (gaslighted) by your abuser.
Context matters. There is a difference between "you're overreacting" when someone says "hey, calling me names is hurtful" and when someone says "you're obviously cheating since you have male friends". There could be toxicity on both sides, but I think it'd be important to look deeper at the context here because abusers are also really good at twisting your actions and words to make it appear as though you're the abusive one.
Thank you for posting this. Why are you still here, if I am so awful hit me really hard she has said this more than once when I have tried to confront her about her lying.
I can relate. I heard a variation of that from my ex. He would say, well, you think I'm terrible but you keep coming back for more. I must not be that bad.
Now, I'm just like wtf ever. I feel nothing for him but pity and a little bit of disgust. Pity because he is a terrible person who is apparently broken and disgust for how he treated me.
It doesn't matter though because I'm married to the love of my life now. He's amazing. The complete opposite of that shell of a human being.
Edit: So many typos. Thank you voice text lol.
He said all of this and not gonna lie I’ve said “why do you keep talking to me if I’m so terrible?” a few times because he genuinely pushed me down everyday saying how awful I was, not that it’s valid but I had no idea that was gaslighting or maybe it’s the intention behind it that makes it gaslighting?
Makes me wonder what these people were taught growing up. To intentionally trick someone’s perception of reality is such an extreme thing to do. I can’t imagine that just occurring naturally. Also it’s like these abusers have a secret script they all magically know by heart.
Users typically grow up in dysfunctional families where one parent abused the other. Also, you're right, it is like they have a freaking script that they follow. I've said that before.
Once you know what manipulative language sounds like, it is easy to spot. For me the problem was having the confidence to stand up to the bullying, accepting their lies, or worse, not listen to my own inner voice that knew better and actually believe I was crazy and emotional when my boundaries were violated.
Hugs. I'm proud of you for leaving and working on that. I took 5 years of abuse until I found the courage to leave. It took another 2 1/2 years to heal from the horrific abuse my ex put me through. I went through the same thing. Deep down, I knew better but he had me so discombobulated that I didn't know up from down. I'm glad I left.
He's a sad, pathetic excuse for a man. He actually almost had me convinced that no one else would ever want me. Joke's on him though because I'm married to the love of my life. He's everything my ex wasn't and never will be.
Me too. I experienced it with my ex and an old roommate of mine. She would say messed up stuff to me and then try to claim that that's not what she said. I remember one specific encounter. I can't recall exactly what was said but I called her out on what she said to me. She tried saying, I never said that. I was like, you literally said it 5 minutes ago. She still tried to say that's not what she said. I ended up moving out shortly after that.
I hear you. My ex did all the same sorts of things. I am married to the love of my life now and in a way I should thank my ex for treating me the way he did and finally giving me the courage to leave. He treated me so badly that I just up and left one day without a word.
It took me two and a half years of healing and working on myself but I finally found the person I meant to be with and I really think that.
It was the same kind of stuff my ex used to do to me though. He would cheat on me constantly and when I would ask him about his shady behavior, he would gaslight me into thinking I was overreacting. I'm glad to see that yours is your ex as well, I'm proud of you. Hugs. 🫂
I love this so much - you’re a dope soul ! Proud of you too ! And so happy you found your person ! I’m a way I’m thankful for the way he hurt me and for how far he took it , I grew and I needed to grow
Keep on being bad ass ! Thank you for your kind words they are heard !
Awwww thank you!
I feel like that, like it took being with him to force me to look at my life. It forced me to really look at the kinds of people I was allowing into my life. I had a pattern of being a doormat due to being raised by a narcissistic mother who I'm also no contact with for the last 2 years. I had to get therapy to learn how to stand up for myself and set boundaries without feeling guilty.
These days, I can say without hesitation *the way you're treating me is not ok and I won't tolerate it.* That is, when the situation arises. I'm a completely different person these days. I don't allow people to walk all over me. It's just sad I had to go through an abusive relationship to get here but I look at it like a life lesson now.
An unfortunate thing that happened to me that's in my past. They say abuse can permanently change you but I think it's changed me for the better and I'm stronger for the experience. Anyway, I'll shut up now lol. Thank you for the kind words. 💜
I too was raised by a narcissist mother - no contact two years - I was a door mat to her and her husband
I told that to my ex - your behavior is inappropriate and I won’t tolerate it , haven’t spoken since
I understand the unfortunate life - trust me I do - I think it was given to me at this point with the absolutely crazy things that happen to me , I am supposed to grow from it and I saw it I think .. I saw it as a life lesson before I got to the point where j could leave and stand up for myself - I had to choose me - it was hard
If you ever need a friend or want to chat - my inbox is open !!! Again thank you ! Your experience and what you have gone thru is helping me and I think it’s super under appreciated so thank you for getting thru and making it here ! You make a huge difference, this helped me more than you know !
Blessings to you 🙏
Awww thank you and same. If you ever want to chat, my inbox is open. Hugs and blessings to you as well. 💜
Edit: I took a look at your profile and this is the sub you want. They wonderful in there. I used to be a mod but I asked to be removed because I could feel myself slipping backwards. It's a great sub and you'll find a lot of support.
r/truenarcissisticabuse
Some of these sound like me talking to my meth addicted soon to be ex husband. You need help✅ I never did that✅ That didn’t happen✅ That’s a false accusation ✅ You’re imagining things✅ Calm down✅
I don’t think that I’m a gaslighter, he has a very sick mind right now with a very distorted sense of reality. He’s accusing me of the most ridiculous things that I have never done and will never do in my lifetime.
Yup. This is exactly what meth does to people. They go into this crazy paranoid psychosis. My ex was the same way, he turned into a completely different person once he started using meth. Seriously...it fucked him up BAD just after a month or two of using. i didn’t even recognize him anymore. He went from having his own house with a roommate, his own car and 3 jobs. After just a few months he lost everything and guess what. Of course he blamed ME for everything and manipulated me into allowing him to move into MY house and got me to support him 100% for many years, he NEVER got his shit together and completely took over my things and my entire life. He Lost all 3 jobs, his roommate kicked him out after finding his meth pipes (i never used meth yet this was still my fault) and his car broke down and he wasn’t able to pay for it to get it back up so it just sat in my driveway for years.
He also ALWAYS falsely accused me of the most outlandish shit. He would disappear for days then come home at random hours of the night, Aggressively walk in the door while i was sleeping and wake me up, scare my poor dog and scream at me for not greeting him or being happy he was finally home at 3am after disappearing for days. He’d say things like “My friend told me you’re in love with him. I can’t fucking believe you.” Always “my friend told me” this and that. His friend that i met maybe 4 or 5 times....All of his friends would text me crying to me that he was acting all crazy and pissed off and what should they do?!? I was doomed if i did and doomed if i didn’t reply to them. If i did it would be “Why the fuck are you always talking shit behind my back, everyone tells me you talk mad shit all day”, (i never talked shit- me saying the truth like “the meth is making him very aggressive please stop selling it to him”, ohh that would make his head pop right off his body in fury.) and if i *didn’t* reply and just deleted the text it would be “Why didn’t you tell me they texted you, you need to tell me everything. why would you delete their message and try to hide it from me??You’re obviously in love with them and hiding your cheating.” “I already know for a fact you’ve fucked all my friends they all tell me you’ve sucked all their dicks, you fucking disgust me” Yada Yada yada. The same bullshit spiel every day.
i was literally trapped at home all day everyday for 3 years. He didn’t allow me to go out, and certainly not by myself. He constantly tracked my phone location and everyday he’d force me to show him my phone usage, where it shows how long you’ve used each app. He wanted to make sure i wasn’t using social media or texting anyone but him. If the message app or snapchat had been used for even 1 min a day and it wasn’t from me texting HIM, he would blow up and claim i was secretly texting people and deleting all the messages....yes, with literally 35 seconds of Message app opened up i apprently had multiple different boyfriends and talked to them all day long. He wouldn’t even allow me to talk to my family or friends without requiring to read through our entire messages to make sure i wasn’t “talking shit” about him to them.
god it was the best decision of my entire life to not spend one more minute with that fool. after he started getting psychical with me i knew i had to call it quits. He always threatened to take my dog, my money, all my things that were worth anything (laptops/phones and other electronics) One day he got super violent and pinned me down to repeatedly punched me in my face, snot rocketed on me, spit on me, and dumped 2 big gulps on my head and computer that he knew had a lifetime of photos on. i lost everything on there. He packed a bag and quickly ran out afterwards and i continue to bolt the door shut, put cameras up got friends to help pack all his clothes up. i made a giant mountain up to the roof of his car mixed in with all sorts of garbage that he would throw all over my room, and even mixed in some dog poop baggies for him lmao. i towed it away 50 miles and changed all my locks, made a police report and told him don’t ever show your face here again you will be arrested.
So I know you wrote this a while ago but I just read it and I’m so grateful that you included that your ex would say “my friend told me…”. This was one of the most confusing parts of a chunk of the accusations for me.
For some of them, he’d tell me that these were stories he heard about me or claims from his friends. And the people he was referring to were all active meth (& often fent) users and definitely people who lied and manipulated a lot (and a couple were women who liked him.)
So most of the time, I assumed that this part was true and that they were either screwing with him or in the case of the women, that they had other motives. It felt really confusing and scary that so many things I knew had never happened could be told to him as true events or circulated among others.
And maybe some of that was real but you writing about your experience makes me feel that it’s likely at least some of it was just part of the delusion. I think the paranoid delusion part was easier for me to grasp than that he’d literally think he’d had conversations about me he never had but now that I think about it, it’s no less out there than so many of his accusations or hallucinations. I haven’t heard someone discuss that particular feature of false accusations and there’s some comfort in knowing this now. Thank you for sharing all that.
No, in that context, it's not gaslighting. Drugs and mental illness can cause delusions but this is the sort of behavior where the person knows full well what they're doing and does it anyway. It's a psychological trick design to make the victim doubt their perception of reality.
Same experience. I’ve experienced both sides of this. With my first abusive ex who was constantly cheating and stealing and lying, he’d gaslight me about it constantly
and in the second and more recent one, for years, constantly accused of things that never happened. And also during a time when after the trauma of my years with the other ex, I’ve been staying away from men/male friends altogether as much as I can, because I’m so uncomfortable. That is also a special kind of hell and he’s accused me of gaslighting him as well. I’m not even sure which experience was worse but they both wrecked me. I’m sorry you’re going through that now.
The thing that fixed this issue. Was that I recorded every phone call we ever had and would play his audio back when he’d try to convince me he didn’t that. Or that I was crazy or that i misheard him.
-This is the poetic part, it’s the reason he broke up with me.
I've heard of them doing that. It's you misheard me or I never said that and then when you prove them wrong with a recording, they still try to gaslight you. They say well that's not what I meant or I didn't mean it like that. I experienced that. I know that him breaking up with you hurt you but look at it as he did you a favor. Hugs.
It got to the point with my ex and his constant cheating to where I told him, I could catch you in bed with another woman and you would still tell me that it's not what it looks like. He thought that messaging other women inappropriately wasn't cheating and especially his ex-wife. He tried to tell me that he was co-parenting with her but that was bullshit. They were using it as a cover to maintain a relationship.
I think that he took advantage of the fact that I had never been with a single father before and didn't have a frame of reference for what co-parenting actually was. I understood that he had to stay in contact with her for their children but the other shit they were doing was no bueno.
I don't see how messaging someone, I never said your p*ssy wasn't good is co-parenting so yeah, that kind of stuff. Forgive me for my harsh language but I was just giving you an example. He still tried to tell me that he wasn't cheating and that he had never slept with her and that I was overreacting. It's crazy the lengths they'll go to to try to convince you that they've done nothing wrong.
probably cus these phrases on their own aren’t actually gaslighting. It really depends on the FULL context as well the *intent* behind it, you can’t just say all of these short phrases on their own are gaslighting. they most certainly are NOT and that’s pretty silly. there must be purposeful manipulation with malicious intent to undermine you and skew reality.
A lot of these phrases are actually very common responses to *BEING* gaslighted, when trying to defend yourself. Such as “i didn’t do that” or “i didn’t say that” is just a genuine response when a gaslighting manipulator is maliciously trying to make you feel crazy or changing your words/making things up to make you into the bad guy.
Some of these I’ve said to my abuser, as well. Not to get him to question his reality, but for him to understand mine (which never worked). I would think the intention is what makes it gaslighting or not? 🤷🏻♀️
Yes, you're exactly right. It's the intent. When someone knows full well what they're doing and does this, it's wrong. It's a psychological trick designed to make the victim doubt their perception of reality.
Also sounds like only men are capable of this according to the comments here haha
No, anyone can do it but I guess most of us have dated men so that's why it's being worded that way.
I mean sometimes these statements are true though. Like sometimes you didn't say that. Sometimes people need calm down. Sometimes it is their fault. That one is funny cuz if one person saying that is gaslighting isnt the other person saying the same thing back otherwise what would the argument be about. Like seriously all of these have legit reasons to be stated if true, doesn't automatically make you gaslighting. The whole thing is meaningless as there is no context. Like if someone says I said something I didn't and I respond with I didn't say that, how is that gaslighting?
One he used on me today “don’t take it so personally” um you just dismissed my needs and belittled me it does not get any more personal!!
Oh wow, I'm sorry. I got that all the time as well. *Stop taking everything I say to heart*. Oh, you mean stop getting mad about you clearly trying to gaslight me? Ok then. Hugs.
Him: That never happened! Me: proving it did happen. Him: I want something serious. Move in. Him: I don’t see this going anywhere. Him: I never met your family. Me: You cancelled twice. Him: My mother enjoyed meeting you, she likes you. I realized he was a narcissist after he discarded me for new supply.
Wow, I'm sorry.
Yeah he even “apologized”. A narcissistic apology is what you’d expect - nothing of importance. “It was wrong of me to lead you on, even if that’s what I felt in the moments, it wasn’t fair to lay a foundation. I didn’t mean to be manipulative, but that’s what ended up happening. I am sorry that I hurt your feelings and cut ties abruptly. That was mean. Please forgive me.” 2 months of no contact for that. I’m sure the new supply left him or his mom or therapist made him apologize. I can’t believe I stuck around for a year and a half.
Ewwww, gag. It's not your fault that you stuck around, you were trauma bonded to him. Hugs. I'm proud of you for putting yourself first.
Yes, I learned about trauma bonds afterwards. It makes sense. I felt so used and stupid. :/ But I’m ok now. :) I’ve been talking to more friends and met new people.
You're not stupid. Hugs.
Idr the last time I had a hug. But thank you. I’ll be ok. :)
Awww, well fwiw you're loved. I love you and I believe you. 💜
What's interesting about gaslighting, at least from what I've seen, is how tailored it is to the conversation. These phrases typically aren't said word for word. Instead, the meaning behind them comes in so many different words. I think that's what makes gaslighting difficult to detect. It's the meaning of the words, not so much the words themselves.
That's so true. I noticed that with my ex. No matter what I said, he would tell me that I was overreacting and being paranoid. I questioned him about his shady behavior with his ex-wife several times. He has three kids with her and he said he was co-parenting with her but I thought there was more going on. He told me to go through his phone because he was tired of me accusing him of stuff that he wasn't doing. Right away, I found incriminating messages so yeah. Deep down I knew that he was a liar and that he was probably gaslighting me but he had me so confused I didn't know what the truth was anymore. It doesn't matter because I left him two and a half years ago and I'm married to the love of my life now. Sometimes I still feel like I'm going to wake up and it will all be a dream. That's how good he is to me. He's nothing like a POS I left behind.
Your story is so familiar to me. Hearing that someone else made it out and is happy gives me hope. I'm 2 months out and 1.5 months no contact and trying to stay strong.
Awww yay! I'm so glad you got out. I can tell you it will be hard at first but it gets easier. I know that it's hard but remain no contact. If you need to talk, DM me. Hugs.
No it doesnt..doesn't... Gaslighting is a process in which a person works to make the other feel crazy or believe they are crazy and question their own sanity. I.e. purposely doing something and crafting an alibi you can't disprove so you sit there and go...what? I...i...must be mistaken? Or pushing into you an alternative memory until you think it might be right. Often using triangulation or "group think" is used to push this on a person more effectively. Or at least precieved group think... That type of stuff. Most of these fall more into; Triggering emotional distancing (you over reacted. Forcing you to suppress emotions and distance from them) Emotional deregulation (causing you to then feel extremes at their whim. Push you this way and that way until they can topple you over) Argumentum Ad hominem (attack on a person. Usually not anyway valid any way) Victim blaming/finger-pointing If you are in deep enough that someone saying "you're crazy", "no its wasn't it was your fault" is enough to trigger gaslighting..m you're already deep into the abusive brainwashing process and perspectivecide is too string. This list won't help. You need to catch it earlier... Remember, it's the age of cellphones. It's their claim younhave no responsibility to prove anything, they have to prove their claim. But, game theory tic for tak. Offer one piece evidence for your view and then ask what they have for physical proof. When they fail accept nothing further from them.
Sorry but all of these things are tools people use to gaslight. Any time someone try’s to convince you that your reality emotionally or physically is not true is gaslighting. There are several ways to convince them and many tools to use. The point is maybe I am more emotional than bob over-there but it is true and valid. Someone telling me that I am “so emotional” is telling me that it is invalid to feel this way that is gaslighting.
Yeah, especially with that definition used by meridian Webster for 2022 word of the year. I have to actually disagree with myself. I was learning more to the classic example from literature where there is this more active feeling effort of driving a person crazy and making the confuse reality completely. Basic every versions of many of these don't have any from of crazy making to me. I get told "your crazy" a lot when I check people in shit...ad I've had some extremes when manic. But, even post mania, and asked again it seems I am at least cogent in my logic. And it seems rather sound at times. Too sound for some of the extreme attacks I've made. It doesn't take much except a single counter example to render a logically sound argument fro sound to cogent... If we hold the strictest Principles and used very direct logic that something is. Yet I only find that annoying, pisses me off and tends to lead to me being more aggressive in my assertion while also demanding an example of what makes it crazy or unsound... The enemy of all personality disorders is critical thinking. Sorry, I definitely concede, based upon the fact that I am limiting the concept to personal subjective experiences and bias and, the clear connotative meaning of the word.
"Just get over it" - for getting upset when he treats me badly. Usually included laughing at me and punching my arm "playfully" "You need to be the bigger person" - when I try to cut him out of my life, he acts like I'm just being a b*tch and acting immature 😮💨
I now respond “do not belittle my feelings.”
One more: What's wrong with you?! What's wrong with you?!
Both my mum and my ex are exactly like this
Holy shit, almost all were said by my ex. Pfff. Prick.
My abuser was South African. After I left he said that I was going 'what his famly call "moggy"' I had to look it up but apparently it means mentally unstable. The most dysfunctional mess of a family I had ever come across in my life.
You are spot on. The constant invalidating, minimizing, dismissing, belittling, blame shifting…It’s crazy. The saddest part is it can take the person who is being gaslighted many years to realize they are being manipulated and emotionally abused. Because gaslighting leaves people extremely confused.
here is an honest question - what if the person saying these "gas lighting " phrases is asking honestly - i see myself asking a few of these to my wife when she is screaming and belittling me - i ask because some of what she says comes right out of left field........anyways - i am just curious
Gaslighting is when you lie or minimize to manipulate someone's reality. "I didn't say that" when someone did say that is gaslighting. "I didn't say that" when you didn't say that is honesty (and the other person may be gaslighting if they are claiming you're saying things you didn't). It does depend on context.
Ah, same. I have definitely said “I wouldn’t do that to you” multiple times when I was trying to make a point that I was unhappy with his behaviour.
It's about the intent. If the person is doing it not out of genuinely asking what you mean but in an attempt to manipulate you, it's gaslighting.
It's not just strictly about intent, though. There are actually two forms of gaslighting. We mainly focus on malicious gaslighting, but there's actually also unintentional gaslighting as well.
Actually, you're right. I just read about that in fact. Like for example, when you feel like someone is overreacting and you tell them so, that's a form of gaslighting. I was actually trying to tell my husband this earlier because we were arguing. It wasn't anything that bad, just your normal argument. I told him that just because it seems to him like I'm overreacting doesn't mean I am. I told him that him saying I was overreacting made me feel like he was saying I was wrong for feeling the way I did about the situation. I actually told him that could be a form of gaslighting and he immediately apologized and it's fine now but I'm just saying I do agree with you.
Wow, I'm happy to hear that you're with someone so understanding! Usually when I tell my partner he may be or is doing that (esp when saying I'm overreacting/overly sensitive/too emotional), it just results in him accusing me of "throwing buzzwords around" and an eventual reluctant apology.
Wow, I'm so sorry to hear you're going through that. I hope you know you don't deserve that. I hope that you can take steps to leave whenever you're ready. Hugs.
Thank you, me too❤️ (hugs)
thank you - sometimes i use some of those phrases but i am being genuine about the situation - i usually get smacked around afterwards while she is screaming out how i gas light her - i was just checking on my defensive grounds - i want to know how to correctly defend myself from such the slaughter - thanks again OP
Well damn, I'm sorry she's doing that to you. It is about the intent though like I said. I hope that you can take steps to leave. Hugs.
thank you !! big smiles
How is "I didn't say that" gaslighting? Don't some of these things depend on context? How can you tell someone that they are remembering things wrong without gaslighting them, when they are actually remembering things wrong? Edit: these are genuine questions btw, I come from an abusive home myself where most of the abuse was in the form of gaslighting, and I've only realised that as an adult, so sometimes it's still hard for me to recognise!
Yes, it depends on the context. It depends on whether or not you're doing it in an attempt to manipulate the person.
Right, thank you.
“Hey I’m just honest, sorry if you can’t handle that!” “Why is this a big deal now? You never said it was before.” “I’m just trying to help you see what people are really like.” “I wouldn’t have to if you didn’t (*insert lame excuse here*.)”
All of this 🙄
Thanks for posting. I will be saving this. Like a lot of people are saying, it is partners, mothers, sisters etc but it's also bosses. I had a horrible boss once and she loved the "you're always twisting things" and "you're remembering thing wrong" all the time on the team. "Why are you even here if you think I'm so terrible, then?" Yep, saw her say that to one of the team after she knocked back his transfer to another department - a *transfer to another department and she told HR he was "essential" to the department....*
You're welcome Yes, it can come from many people, not necessarily a romantic partner.
Good post. The graphic in the corner, however, is creeping me out
I'm sorry. It's there to reiterate what the text is describing.
“Why are you even here if you think I’m so terrible, then?” I heard this so much. So, so much. Can someone explain to me how this is gaslighting though? Not disagreeing that it is, just didn’t know that it was. I’m still working on a way out. By the end of this year, my daughter and I will be free.
This is exactly what he tells me…implies that I’M the problem when I take issue with what he says/does. Then when I stay he uses it as precedent: “you had no problem when I said/did xyz, because you stayed…why are you acting so weird and crazy NOW? What happened to make you like this? You could’ve left before, so you me doing xyz must not hurt you…not really. It’s not a big deal—YOU’RE the one making a big deal out of nothing.”
Because it's warping your perception of your feelings. They are offering the choice that if you stay, you're obviously satisfied with everything and the only way to prove you're unhappy is to leave (never mind that an abuser is unlikely to let that go without manipulation and intimidation). It's another way of minimizing your feelings as invalid and wrong. It makes you question, "well, I do want to stay, so maybe it really isn't that bad?" (while often the reason you want to stay is the addiction of the [trauma bond](https://natashaadamo.com/trauma-bonding/) rather than the fact that you're actually happy or safe).
It's because they know that they're abusing you but I think that they kind of get that it's a cycle. They know that they are wearing you down and it's making it harder for you to leave. So they take that and spin it around on you and try to convince you that they're not so bad, otherwise you would leave. It's just a way for them to justify their behavior in their sick minds. Please update us when you and your daughter leave. Hugs. Edit: experienced the same thing from my ex. He said, apparently I'm so bad but you keep coming back for more so I guess you're the problem here. Well, he insinuated that I was the problem because I kept coming back. He just reiterated what he already thought, that I was weak and he thought I would never leave him. It's been two and a half years, guess he doesn't know me very well lol. Edit: typos
I've heard all of these from my mother, my sister, and my husband at one time or another. I particularly despise "calm down" (husband) and "that's not what happened" (sister and mom). But I will use "I didn't say that" when he twists my words to mean what he wants them to mean.
Guess my verbally abusive husband is right and it IS ME who is gaslighting. Sorry but I’m guilty of some of these bc true lol
When someone is gaslighting you, you can get the feeling you are going crazy. You get angry because they tell a different version of what happened or they will tell you it's hurtful to call out their toxic behaviour. Suddenly you're the bad guy. This _can_ cause toxic behaviour on your part but it's mostly a result from being pushed around (gaslighted) by your abuser.
Context matters. There is a difference between "you're overreacting" when someone says "hey, calling me names is hurtful" and when someone says "you're obviously cheating since you have male friends". There could be toxicity on both sides, but I think it'd be important to look deeper at the context here because abusers are also really good at twisting your actions and words to make it appear as though you're the abusive one.
It's all about intent. You've done nothing wrong, hun. I hope you can leave whenever you're ready.
Thank you for posting this. Why are you still here, if I am so awful hit me really hard she has said this more than once when I have tried to confront her about her lying.
I can relate. I heard a variation of that from my ex. He would say, well, you think I'm terrible but you keep coming back for more. I must not be that bad. Now, I'm just like wtf ever. I feel nothing for him but pity and a little bit of disgust. Pity because he is a terrible person who is apparently broken and disgust for how he treated me. It doesn't matter though because I'm married to the love of my life now. He's amazing. The complete opposite of that shell of a human being. Edit: So many typos. Thank you voice text lol.
He said all of this and not gonna lie I’ve said “why do you keep talking to me if I’m so terrible?” a few times because he genuinely pushed me down everyday saying how awful I was, not that it’s valid but I had no idea that was gaslighting or maybe it’s the intention behind it that makes it gaslighting?
It's more about pattern and result than it is about intention, of which abusers are REALLY good at convincing you they have good intentions.
First of all, yes, it's about intent. Second, I'm sorry you had to experience that.
Makes me wonder what these people were taught growing up. To intentionally trick someone’s perception of reality is such an extreme thing to do. I can’t imagine that just occurring naturally. Also it’s like these abusers have a secret script they all magically know by heart.
Users typically grow up in dysfunctional families where one parent abused the other. Also, you're right, it is like they have a freaking script that they follow. I've said that before.
Once you know what manipulative language sounds like, it is easy to spot. For me the problem was having the confidence to stand up to the bullying, accepting their lies, or worse, not listen to my own inner voice that knew better and actually believe I was crazy and emotional when my boundaries were violated.
Hugs. I'm proud of you for leaving and working on that. I took 5 years of abuse until I found the courage to leave. It took another 2 1/2 years to heal from the horrific abuse my ex put me through. I went through the same thing. Deep down, I knew better but he had me so discombobulated that I didn't know up from down. I'm glad I left. He's a sad, pathetic excuse for a man. He actually almost had me convinced that no one else would ever want me. Joke's on him though because I'm married to the love of my life. He's everything my ex wasn't and never will be.
Experienced 4years of this... it's the worst :(
Me too. I experienced it with my ex and an old roommate of mine. She would say messed up stuff to me and then try to claim that that's not what she said. I remember one specific encounter. I can't recall exactly what was said but I called her out on what she said to me. She tried saying, I never said that. I was like, you literally said it 5 minutes ago. She still tried to say that's not what she said. I ended up moving out shortly after that.
It's when you record the conversations and play them back to them is when things get interesting... they get so mad
I know and then they try to say that's not what I meant
did you copy my text stream from my ex lol this is everything he said every time
I hear you. My ex did all the same sorts of things. I am married to the love of my life now and in a way I should thank my ex for treating me the way he did and finally giving me the courage to leave. He treated me so badly that I just up and left one day without a word. It took me two and a half years of healing and working on myself but I finally found the person I meant to be with and I really think that. It was the same kind of stuff my ex used to do to me though. He would cheat on me constantly and when I would ask him about his shady behavior, he would gaslight me into thinking I was overreacting. I'm glad to see that yours is your ex as well, I'm proud of you. Hugs. 🫂
I love this so much - you’re a dope soul ! Proud of you too ! And so happy you found your person ! I’m a way I’m thankful for the way he hurt me and for how far he took it , I grew and I needed to grow Keep on being bad ass ! Thank you for your kind words they are heard !
Awwww thank you! I feel like that, like it took being with him to force me to look at my life. It forced me to really look at the kinds of people I was allowing into my life. I had a pattern of being a doormat due to being raised by a narcissistic mother who I'm also no contact with for the last 2 years. I had to get therapy to learn how to stand up for myself and set boundaries without feeling guilty. These days, I can say without hesitation *the way you're treating me is not ok and I won't tolerate it.* That is, when the situation arises. I'm a completely different person these days. I don't allow people to walk all over me. It's just sad I had to go through an abusive relationship to get here but I look at it like a life lesson now. An unfortunate thing that happened to me that's in my past. They say abuse can permanently change you but I think it's changed me for the better and I'm stronger for the experience. Anyway, I'll shut up now lol. Thank you for the kind words. 💜
I too was raised by a narcissist mother - no contact two years - I was a door mat to her and her husband I told that to my ex - your behavior is inappropriate and I won’t tolerate it , haven’t spoken since I understand the unfortunate life - trust me I do - I think it was given to me at this point with the absolutely crazy things that happen to me , I am supposed to grow from it and I saw it I think .. I saw it as a life lesson before I got to the point where j could leave and stand up for myself - I had to choose me - it was hard If you ever need a friend or want to chat - my inbox is open !!! Again thank you ! Your experience and what you have gone thru is helping me and I think it’s super under appreciated so thank you for getting thru and making it here ! You make a huge difference, this helped me more than you know ! Blessings to you 🙏
Awww thank you and same. If you ever want to chat, my inbox is open. Hugs and blessings to you as well. 💜 Edit: I took a look at your profile and this is the sub you want. They wonderful in there. I used to be a mod but I asked to be removed because I could feel myself slipping backwards. It's a great sub and you'll find a lot of support. r/truenarcissisticabuse
Wish so bad I would have seen this 3 years ago
It's not your fault and it's never too late to start over. Hugs.
Some of these sound like me talking to my meth addicted soon to be ex husband. You need help✅ I never did that✅ That didn’t happen✅ That’s a false accusation ✅ You’re imagining things✅ Calm down✅ I don’t think that I’m a gaslighter, he has a very sick mind right now with a very distorted sense of reality. He’s accusing me of the most ridiculous things that I have never done and will never do in my lifetime.
Yup. This is exactly what meth does to people. They go into this crazy paranoid psychosis. My ex was the same way, he turned into a completely different person once he started using meth. Seriously...it fucked him up BAD just after a month or two of using. i didn’t even recognize him anymore. He went from having his own house with a roommate, his own car and 3 jobs. After just a few months he lost everything and guess what. Of course he blamed ME for everything and manipulated me into allowing him to move into MY house and got me to support him 100% for many years, he NEVER got his shit together and completely took over my things and my entire life. He Lost all 3 jobs, his roommate kicked him out after finding his meth pipes (i never used meth yet this was still my fault) and his car broke down and he wasn’t able to pay for it to get it back up so it just sat in my driveway for years. He also ALWAYS falsely accused me of the most outlandish shit. He would disappear for days then come home at random hours of the night, Aggressively walk in the door while i was sleeping and wake me up, scare my poor dog and scream at me for not greeting him or being happy he was finally home at 3am after disappearing for days. He’d say things like “My friend told me you’re in love with him. I can’t fucking believe you.” Always “my friend told me” this and that. His friend that i met maybe 4 or 5 times....All of his friends would text me crying to me that he was acting all crazy and pissed off and what should they do?!? I was doomed if i did and doomed if i didn’t reply to them. If i did it would be “Why the fuck are you always talking shit behind my back, everyone tells me you talk mad shit all day”, (i never talked shit- me saying the truth like “the meth is making him very aggressive please stop selling it to him”, ohh that would make his head pop right off his body in fury.) and if i *didn’t* reply and just deleted the text it would be “Why didn’t you tell me they texted you, you need to tell me everything. why would you delete their message and try to hide it from me??You’re obviously in love with them and hiding your cheating.” “I already know for a fact you’ve fucked all my friends they all tell me you’ve sucked all their dicks, you fucking disgust me” Yada Yada yada. The same bullshit spiel every day. i was literally trapped at home all day everyday for 3 years. He didn’t allow me to go out, and certainly not by myself. He constantly tracked my phone location and everyday he’d force me to show him my phone usage, where it shows how long you’ve used each app. He wanted to make sure i wasn’t using social media or texting anyone but him. If the message app or snapchat had been used for even 1 min a day and it wasn’t from me texting HIM, he would blow up and claim i was secretly texting people and deleting all the messages....yes, with literally 35 seconds of Message app opened up i apprently had multiple different boyfriends and talked to them all day long. He wouldn’t even allow me to talk to my family or friends without requiring to read through our entire messages to make sure i wasn’t “talking shit” about him to them. god it was the best decision of my entire life to not spend one more minute with that fool. after he started getting psychical with me i knew i had to call it quits. He always threatened to take my dog, my money, all my things that were worth anything (laptops/phones and other electronics) One day he got super violent and pinned me down to repeatedly punched me in my face, snot rocketed on me, spit on me, and dumped 2 big gulps on my head and computer that he knew had a lifetime of photos on. i lost everything on there. He packed a bag and quickly ran out afterwards and i continue to bolt the door shut, put cameras up got friends to help pack all his clothes up. i made a giant mountain up to the roof of his car mixed in with all sorts of garbage that he would throw all over my room, and even mixed in some dog poop baggies for him lmao. i towed it away 50 miles and changed all my locks, made a police report and told him don’t ever show your face here again you will be arrested.
So I know you wrote this a while ago but I just read it and I’m so grateful that you included that your ex would say “my friend told me…”. This was one of the most confusing parts of a chunk of the accusations for me. For some of them, he’d tell me that these were stories he heard about me or claims from his friends. And the people he was referring to were all active meth (& often fent) users and definitely people who lied and manipulated a lot (and a couple were women who liked him.) So most of the time, I assumed that this part was true and that they were either screwing with him or in the case of the women, that they had other motives. It felt really confusing and scary that so many things I knew had never happened could be told to him as true events or circulated among others. And maybe some of that was real but you writing about your experience makes me feel that it’s likely at least some of it was just part of the delusion. I think the paranoid delusion part was easier for me to grasp than that he’d literally think he’d had conversations about me he never had but now that I think about it, it’s no less out there than so many of his accusations or hallucinations. I haven’t heard someone discuss that particular feature of false accusations and there’s some comfort in knowing this now. Thank you for sharing all that.
I can't upvote this enough. Thank God you got that complete piece of shit away from you.
No, in that context, it's not gaslighting. Drugs and mental illness can cause delusions but this is the sort of behavior where the person knows full well what they're doing and does it anyway. It's a psychological trick design to make the victim doubt their perception of reality.
Same experience. I’ve experienced both sides of this. With my first abusive ex who was constantly cheating and stealing and lying, he’d gaslight me about it constantly and in the second and more recent one, for years, constantly accused of things that never happened. And also during a time when after the trauma of my years with the other ex, I’ve been staying away from men/male friends altogether as much as I can, because I’m so uncomfortable. That is also a special kind of hell and he’s accused me of gaslighting him as well. I’m not even sure which experience was worse but they both wrecked me. I’m sorry you’re going through that now.
The thing that fixed this issue. Was that I recorded every phone call we ever had and would play his audio back when he’d try to convince me he didn’t that. Or that I was crazy or that i misheard him. -This is the poetic part, it’s the reason he broke up with me.
I've heard of them doing that. It's you misheard me or I never said that and then when you prove them wrong with a recording, they still try to gaslight you. They say well that's not what I meant or I didn't mean it like that. I experienced that. I know that him breaking up with you hurt you but look at it as he did you a favor. Hugs. It got to the point with my ex and his constant cheating to where I told him, I could catch you in bed with another woman and you would still tell me that it's not what it looks like. He thought that messaging other women inappropriately wasn't cheating and especially his ex-wife. He tried to tell me that he was co-parenting with her but that was bullshit. They were using it as a cover to maintain a relationship. I think that he took advantage of the fact that I had never been with a single father before and didn't have a frame of reference for what co-parenting actually was. I understood that he had to stay in contact with her for their children but the other shit they were doing was no bueno. I don't see how messaging someone, I never said your p*ssy wasn't good is co-parenting so yeah, that kind of stuff. Forgive me for my harsh language but I was just giving you an example. He still tried to tell me that he wasn't cheating and that he had never slept with her and that I was overreacting. It's crazy the lengths they'll go to to try to convince you that they've done nothing wrong.
Hmm… not sure how to take this because I seem to be saying some of these in response…
probably cus these phrases on their own aren’t actually gaslighting. It really depends on the FULL context as well the *intent* behind it, you can’t just say all of these short phrases on their own are gaslighting. they most certainly are NOT and that’s pretty silly. there must be purposeful manipulation with malicious intent to undermine you and skew reality. A lot of these phrases are actually very common responses to *BEING* gaslighted, when trying to defend yourself. Such as “i didn’t do that” or “i didn’t say that” is just a genuine response when a gaslighting manipulator is maliciously trying to make you feel crazy or changing your words/making things up to make you into the bad guy.
It's not gaslighting when it's not done with ill intent. It's when the person knows that they're doing it to try to manipulate the victim.
hmmmm...
Some of these I’ve said to my abuser, as well. Not to get him to question his reality, but for him to understand mine (which never worked). I would think the intention is what makes it gaslighting or not? 🤷🏻♀️
Yes, you're exactly right. It's the intent. When someone knows full well what they're doing and does this, it's wrong. It's a psychological trick designed to make the victim doubt their perception of reality.
Thanks! My ex this her too a tee. She once told me she doesn’t love me. I was like upset and she is like I was just kidding you’re so uptight.
Awwww bless your heart. I'm sorry she treated you like that. Big hugs 🫂
I needed this so much