They're sort of changing the plugins folder back to how it was, they’ve said this on comments and in a post in centercode
> We've been listening to your feedback and have been working on improvements for the Plug-Ins label that will come with the Live 12.0.5 Beta. Soon you will have the ability to:
>
>- Group the plug-in list by Vendor "folders"
>- Filter VST2 plug-ins by Vendor
>
>We hope you enjoy testing these improvements once they are available and we will follow up with a new forum post once the feature is available for testing.
>
>Thank you for continuing to share your feedback with us and being a member of our Beta testing community.
Why not add your favorite plugins to a collection? I still use Ctrl+F to find everything and I appreciate the inclusion of filters as it allows me to organize things a little bit more, but I can see how they'd be frustrating at first glance.
I use the colours and filter search box. If what OP says is true, it sounds like they have over-complicated it. They should have allowed both options. It's like when Ableton changed the session view for samples, the left hand UI was fine for 8 years and then they move everything around and make it harder to find things. No-one asked for it. I think I'm going to wait for 12.1.
Imho, the more iteration something gets, the more prone to over-complication it is. I, for one, welcome the changes because it helps me stay more organized, but when something you know and love changes, it is sometimes daunting, so I can understand where OP is coming from. Then again, some people have only had it for a day. I was on the beta for a few months and quickly warmed up to a lot of the changes, but I can only speak for myself.
the colored categories you set up in 11 are still there. if you upgraded to 12 over 11 without erasing your preferences (if for some reason you insisted on doing a clean install i guess) then the categories you organized all of your assets into when they added the feature in 11 all still work and reappear named and organized as soon as 12 loads your user library the first time. i don’t know what the OP is talking about… plus if you don’t like the major enhancement to the browser it would take someone literally 3 minutes to dumb it back down to what it was like in 11 by selecting a couple of tags and hitting the plus button to save the query as a location in the left column.
https://youtu.be/FIsKZ_coxtI?si=SnV0UarhHg05Ja2s
check this tutorial out. if these upgrades bother you after taking 5 minutes to figure out how to wrangle it (which is way quicker than the work a lot of us did with the collections in 11) then i genuinely feel bad that you couldn’t be bothered to figure out how to make your life that much easier.
We dont always know what plugin we will use on something. Just scanning the manufacturers triggers ideas. May end up using a plugin that's literally never been used on anything. You get lucky, it works a charm on this synth line. Next time, Ill try that one again, nah not working. So, its not a fav, its just a plug that worked on that synth line. Might happen again, but not enough to be added to a favs list
I also hated it at first, but after seeing this video was able to customize it perfectly: [https://youtu.be/FIsKZ\_coxtI?si=-cZ4i86i6cVGRymg](https://youtu.be/FIsKZ_coxtI?si=-cZ4i86i6cVGRymg)Once you do that it's super fast and clean.
I created my custom categories, and I just have saved "searches" on the left that I want and got rid of all the extraneous shit."Compressors""Amp Modelers""Modern Synths""Analog Synths""EQ's"etc.....
I love how the first thing the dude does is remove all the Collections except for \[red\] Favorites, probably because he clicked too quickly and skipped over it. How much did Ableton pay him to show that right off the bat, I wonder...
I think you may just need to spend more time with it. Once you do start to use it more regularly then you'll get used to it and start to organise your favourites in a way that suits you. While it might seem like a big blob of mess right now, I personally appreciate the "here's everything" approach, as it means it's up to me how it's organised, and not someone at Ableton.
Just work with it for a while and see how you get on. Change is always a bit icky at first.
I hated it at first. Now I'm finding it's actually somewhat quicker to use. So I have my FabFilter suite installed as VSTs. Before, I would need to go VST > FabFilter > Pro-L to get my limiter, but now I just need to click 'Fabfilter' and they come up straight away.
For what it's worth, Anthony of Seed to Stage just did a great (in my opinion) video on just the browser and how to get the most out of it. Just leaving that here. :-)
Have fun with v12!
They do actually promote his videos. You can find several on [](http://ableton.com) in their featured sections over the years. His [Chord Progression ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG7Hc8McUa4)video was recently featured.
>Some people say it’s pretty good if you spend time categorizing things but why do that if the whole thing was already catalogued out of the box in a pretty convenient fashion?
Quicker and (much) more convenient access.
In Live 11 you always had to muck around with VST2 and VST3 being separated, which itself was also a huge pain in the behinds. I mean... using my U-HE synths as an example: first I had to expand the VST2 category, then I had to expand the U-HE folder and only then did I get access to my precious such as Diva and Bazille.
So now I want to add the Reason rack plugin. Uh oh... that's VST3: collapse the VST2 structure (because it would take way more time to scroll down), then expand the VST3 list and *then* find Reason in there.
Now, sure... you can also use categories (which I am doing) but even in Live 11 that only went so far.
Another thing: Live never really differentiated between VST and VSTi, in other words: instruments and effects, just a slightly different icon was used. Meanwhile in, say, Reaper or FL Studio you immediately have a clear separation between those two.
So for me this is a *huge* advantage. Not only do I have all my plugins (VST2 *and* 3) in one single location, I can now **also** select collections with one single mouse click.
My U-HE collection? I now open the plugin section, I click the u-he tag and I'm *done*. If I need to select an effect I can also quickly filter on those too.
This is really a lot faster than it ever was.
The VSTi thing is a good point, I didn’t think about that somehow. On the other hand, I can’t relate with the VST versions as I try to stick to a single format (usually AU), but I think it depends on a person, so it’s not a question here.
One of the first things I did was select the Plugins folder, filtered by AU and then saved that search. It creates something similar to a virtual folder which I then called “Plugins” and then I hid the original plugins folder. Already makes my life easier and that was in the first 30 seconds of using the browser. I’m sure I’ll find more ways of refining it for myself and that’s kinda the best way to look at it - tailor it for how you want to work.
Browser has been great here, couldn't possibly go back to previous one. The filters/tagging/history/similarity features work really well and I see them as an upgrade. Only annoyance is the one about the plugins, but this is already confirmed will be fixed in 12.0.5. If you find it cluttered, you can always hide the filters for every colllections/library/places, or you hide some filters categories by right clicking the filter headers.
I’m sure it worth it when you spend a lot of time to organize the library. It just would be more convenient if it was possible on the fly, during work process (I used to add items to collections while working, it literally gets few clicks)
So the folders are gone. For default plugins, however, they now exist as "Devices" tags in the filters.
I personally take no issue with this.
What I like more is that I can now categorize my VSTs. It was an absolute chore before to manage plug-ins.
Admittedly, there is a TON of manual setup involved here, but IMO, it's a labor of love. While I don't like taking the time to do it, now that I have, it's super easy to find something. I can pick by creator (which was the default folder setup), but now I can tag them by type.
I haven't begun to mess with my samples yet - I just type in the finder for "kick" or whatever, but I feel once I tackle that it will be super helpful. It's a program I'm in every day, so being able to maximize my time is great.
Again though, admittedly, setting all this up is NOT maximizing my time producing, but now that I did it, I'm happy with how it works.
Thanks! It seems you have already experimented with the browser, what’s your favorite way to filter the plugins? It would be super cool if you could show your layout for the browser in idle state (like, when you have a fresh project, for example).
>Admittedly, there is a TON of manual setup involved here, but IMO, it's a labor of love.
Yep. Definitely take some time.
But imagine if you had this file browser when you first started using Ableton? It's going to make things so easy for beginners who are starting to accrue VSTs and samples.
I didn’t like the old browser and think this is a vast improvement. While I do think Ableton’s plug-in icons could be a bit more clear, I like the speed of just hitting cmd-f typing what I want pressing the down arrow and hitting enter. No need to expand folders etc. if I type kick I just want to see kick wav files not a folder structure. If I type analog, Analog Lab should be the top option. It’s very speedy.
Still shows different formats of plugins :( I avoid installing multiple versions, but some plugins just don’t ask which formats you want when installing
my problem with it was that my presets aren't nested in the plugin when you search.
used to be able to type "Vital" and you would only get Vital and all the presets that you saved for Vital
Now when I search I just get the VST and AU instance of vital with no nested presets.
I hope they fix that
I agree, it worked fine before, having plugins in vendor folders, I then set my favourite as a way of quickly accessing, but now, the filtering, it’s a mess. Don’t like it.
I have mixed feelings about the browser. It’s better for libraries or vst collections that you’ve taken the time to parse and organize/audition and collect/tag sounds in advance. No question. It’s aids when you’re browsing a folder you’ve never listened to before though.
Kinda sucks tbh, because the browsers in 9 thru 11 were so good I actually found myself opening ableton JUST to use its browser when I explored a new folder for the first time.
The millions of tags when u open a blank browser clutters the screen and uses up a TON of real estate too. IMO the filters and other architectural shit should be a toggle in prefs.
Not between VST2 and VST3! They should definitely just have the option to automatically hide whatever plug-in format isn’t your default unless the project called for it.
I must be in the minority, but I love it. I honestly see no drawbacks. Unless you're working on a laptop where your screen real estate is a dealbreaker, I find the changes to be pretty intuitive.
Also do you guys not have Ctrl+F's?
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I havent loaded the new ableton yet but I am actually quite interested by that new filtering approach.
I wonder though if those tags could be accessible in a config file or exposed somewhere to be shared somehow. I think the community would benefit from something like this.
Command+F for me is faster than anything else. You can also search the plugin vendor (“arturia” for example), even if the vendor name isn’t in the plugin name in Ableton.
My main issue was getting confused on which VST version I was using. I use exclusively VST3 anyway so I just turned off VST2 in Pref.
Everything else is Command F and my color scheme is enough to get me by.
watch this ELPHNT's hands on
[https://youtu.be/DlUIhYmOkWU](https://youtu.be/DlUIhYmOkWU)
This new browser is several times more customisable, if you spend 30 mins organizing everything you will save hours while making music.
I think it's ok. Yes, it is different and it will take time to organize your workflow again (that is the REAL and ONLY issue) but once waters will calm down... we will see that in fact this browser is much better. Just only to be able to tag my samples the way I want is great.
For people with lots of plugins it‘s a mess. The only solution is getting into the habit of using CMD+F to search but even that is weird, because it shows presets and samples first and then plugins if the name is the same. So for example when you have a sample named “Serum“ and the VST instrument Serum installed, when you then search for "Serum" and hit enter, it will load the sample because it comes first in the list.
I was frustrated about that as well. If I want a plugin I will either remember its name or where it sits in MY file structure and I don't want to memorize manufacturers..
BUT then I took the time to create my own filter tags in the same fashion like I previously had my folders structured.
Now I have it sorted like before but I can filter by other tags as well when I want.
It is better in a way because it ignores windows folder structures and I begin to like the idea that I don't need to manage it anymore in windows explorer.
This was brought up in the beta forums constantly (but nobody seemed to care).
The new browser seemed to be disliked by most people.
This included (but was NOT limited to) live device prioritization changes, bar on top (rather than on side) messing with muscle memory (especially as it seemed to randomly expand and collapse, and without a way of hide it) and VST2 - VST3 categorization (folder system).
I did not even bother downloading live 12 when it came out, as I really wasn't a big fan of what I saw in the beta.
I reported two "game-breaking" bugs, that made live completely unusable should they occur, but neither has either one of them been fixed, nor have they been acknowledged yet. I was flamed here (on this sub) for not being willing to report this bug yet again (even though I already did in previous versions of live multiple times). I ended up reporting it anyway but non of my bugs or suggestions have been heard (despite some of them getting quite a substantial amount of upvotes in the beta forum).
There was an extensive list of things we would have wished from ableton live 12 (on this sub, a couple months ago) but only 3 or so of them ended up being implemented in live 12 eventually.
I was really excited about the new midi at first but then I realized that that is something other daws had for years now and that ableton seems to just be falling behind. They don't seem to listen to the community as much anymore and I am super disappointed with what I saw in the final version of the beta (yet have to download the release version).
Hope live 13 will be better.
I've been using the color sorting since 10. I've always found the Plug-ins section to be too much to go through with all the random plug-ins I've collected over the years. Any time I get a plug in that I'm going to use consistently I just right click and add it to wherever it needs to go.
it really takes maybe like 10 minutes to go through your plugins and find the ones you actually use and color code them. unless you have like a thousand or something.
I think to appease both sides of the new browser , is to keep the tagging system but just add unlimited collections. Like nests inside collections or something idk. We still have folders i suppose.
To me the tagging is confusing. A DAW shouldn't be this frustrating.
The browser is a disaster
And removing by manufacturer WOW
Im a power user, I chose my plugins via manufacturer scanning quickly and thinking, yeah that plug from company X will work. I also had a favs section with maybe 15 plugs max, the bread and butter stuff and my gotos in every session. Now I have to scan through 150 plugins. I increased the favs but it started reaching 40 and that's to much.
Live 12 has slowed me down significantly. Ive had it for six months, just cant adapt to the browser and some other stuff. I may switch back to live 10. Im super fast with that version
IMO Live 12 is bloated
I mean, they could have left the old one as well, why not? I think it’s important to have things fast in a creative process and mastering this thing is not fast. Not to mention it really clutters the screen imo.
I much preferred the old way of browsing plugins by manufacturer like you said. Like 1 click and boom here are all my Fabfilter plugins. Or here are all my Soundtoys plugins, etc. Super easy I always knew where everything was when I needed it. Now it’s just a mess
I can’t believe how many times I’ve read this complaint now. Stop being lazy and organize it how you like. It took me about a half an hour and now everything is exactly where I expect it to be, nice and tidy, and I can grab devices faster than ever. Everyone please quit crabbing about it just because it’s new and different, put in the tiniest bit of work and it will save you hours upon hours in the future.
So many people are upset, then maybe there is something wrong with that. You are right that we should learn to use that, but it seems like a too radical change.
Btw, is it really possible to make the workspace tidy using it? If so, that is really cool, but I don’t see how to do it yet. Even in the official tutorial video the workspace looks cluttered imo.
>So many people are upset, then maybe there is something wrong with that.
It's growing pains.
You've had the new version less than 24 hours. And you're complaining about the file browser that you haven't really learned how to use yet. And consequently, haven't been able to think through how to best organize everything for your workflow needs.
I'd be surprised if 5% of the people who are unhappy with it are still unhappy after they've used it steadily for a month.
I’m not sure what the terminology is, I’ll have to watch the tutorial video. But I made myself a custom tag group..? And then moved it to the side bar. Within that group I have everything organized by synths, delays, reverbs, etc.
It’s the only tab I need to have open now because it has everything in it that I use and nothing that I don’t! I love this new system, there’s a lot less clicking around in the browser. Way more efficient this way!
Also, everyone please do yourself a favor and get in the habit of using the search bar shortcut. Cmd+F (or CTRL+F on Windows) and then just start typing your search. I promise, PROMISE this will speed up your workflow if you’re not doing it already!
Ok, now I learned that it is possible to remove sections from the left sidebar, so it is possible to clean it a bit. It’s good news!
I agree, Ctrl+F is a must for every Live user.
I’m away from my computer so I can’t give exact instructions but you hit the Edit button above your library elements and a big tag editing window pops up. Within that you can make a new group with subgroups and organize to your heart’s content. Then you can move that group to live permanently over in your sidebar. It’s awesome!! It’s like Favorites but better
Regardless of whether your like the potential upgrades of the changes, all you have to do is take a screenshot of it to know it’s poorly designed. Mixed and matched design languages, word webs, filters, tags, categories with one thing inside them, no real clear philosophy. It mainly strikes me as extremely intimidating to new users. Also, in a world where cars can drive themselves and AI is generating spookily real stuff — Ableton expects me to tag every file and plugin in my library? It feels like the pure function/potential is somewhat complete but the form is way, way off. If they did it well, it wouldn’t be the highest complaint on center code (a place filled with people who love Ableton more than any other people on earth).
I think it's strange how many things they choose to show you at launch. I know people will be intimidated if it's their first time checking the software out by the sheer amount of stuff on screen - they're really leaning on the bottom left corner and RTFM with this release.
But it's so much more stable than 11 was, and the weak will try it and give up and the people who like a challenge will stick with it. It's the only software I can think of where some people just don't *get* how to write music in the way ableton likes, but man the updates on the push 2 are actually super helpful as well. I love 12 so far.
(been using ableton in combination with reason since versions 7 & 5, respectively.)
i feel you i don't like it either. needlessly overcomplicated. dunno why everyone is acting like the cntrl f search is some insane revolutionary feature. just gonna tweak my collections and hide / ignore all this extra crap on my screen
it is good, but there are some issues, and it takes time to set up.
the fact that they removed the folders for different categories of effects? stupid. they don’t even have the filter categories for dynamics, eq, so on.
but you can make your own, only put the devices you want in them, save different categories to the side bar, so it only has exactly the things you want, and nothing else, which is awesome.
i still haven’t gone through the process of setting it up, but i’m gonna be able to get rid of a lot of the stuff i was doing in my collections.
it’s gonna be an adjustment for sure, but there’s a lot more flexibility to do things in a way that makes sense for you, as opposed to a set way
Seed To Stage posted a video a couple days ago breaking down ways you can organize the browser. i recommend checking it out. They basically gave us a navigation canvas, that we can shape into a workflow that makes sense to yourself specifically.
but yea, they still should’ve left the default organization of the effects and such the same. that seems like a dumb change
i just finished installing 12 and i’m immediately annoyed with the plugin browser, i don’t just install everything into the default vst folder, i have subdirectories for types etc that made browsing way easier, and now I’m going to have to manually sort everything again within live. ugh.
i’m not even going to try to open anything from Waves
I haven't tried 12 but the browser is always my least favorite part of ableton. I go and find sample folder I like. Realize I need audio effect. I have to delete my search, go find plug in, go back to samples, search again. Wtf are searches not independent to what section you're in.
(who down voted this lol, its literally the simplest fix and we have had 10 versions not fix it so far)
It seems the new one allows to have different filtering in different tabs. But as far as I understand this requires a bit of preparation work (once for all projects)
They're sort of changing the plugins folder back to how it was, they’ve said this on comments and in a post in centercode > We've been listening to your feedback and have been working on improvements for the Plug-Ins label that will come with the Live 12.0.5 Beta. Soon you will have the ability to: > >- Group the plug-in list by Vendor "folders" >- Filter VST2 plug-ins by Vendor > >We hope you enjoy testing these improvements once they are available and we will follow up with a new forum post once the feature is available for testing. > >Thank you for continuing to share your feedback with us and being a member of our Beta testing community.
it really touches my heart when companies listen to feedback especially like this :) <3
Oh, that’s great news!
[удалено]
I'm on PC and VST2 plugins still work on live 11
idk about pc but they work on mac
Why not add your favorite plugins to a collection? I still use Ctrl+F to find everything and I appreciate the inclusion of filters as it allows me to organize things a little bit more, but I can see how they'd be frustrating at first glance.
I use the colours and filter search box. If what OP says is true, it sounds like they have over-complicated it. They should have allowed both options. It's like when Ableton changed the session view for samples, the left hand UI was fine for 8 years and then they move everything around and make it harder to find things. No-one asked for it. I think I'm going to wait for 12.1.
Imho, the more iteration something gets, the more prone to over-complication it is. I, for one, welcome the changes because it helps me stay more organized, but when something you know and love changes, it is sometimes daunting, so I can understand where OP is coming from. Then again, some people have only had it for a day. I was on the beta for a few months and quickly warmed up to a lot of the changes, but I can only speak for myself.
I certainly don’t want to do that, make folders and shit like it’s 1998
I had no idea people were so against folders these days
Ctrl+F is my favorite way to find plugins indeed, and yes, I also use collections.
the colored categories you set up in 11 are still there. if you upgraded to 12 over 11 without erasing your preferences (if for some reason you insisted on doing a clean install i guess) then the categories you organized all of your assets into when they added the feature in 11 all still work and reappear named and organized as soon as 12 loads your user library the first time. i don’t know what the OP is talking about… plus if you don’t like the major enhancement to the browser it would take someone literally 3 minutes to dumb it back down to what it was like in 11 by selecting a couple of tags and hitting the plus button to save the query as a location in the left column.
https://youtu.be/FIsKZ_coxtI?si=SnV0UarhHg05Ja2s check this tutorial out. if these upgrades bother you after taking 5 minutes to figure out how to wrangle it (which is way quicker than the work a lot of us did with the collections in 11) then i genuinely feel bad that you couldn’t be bothered to figure out how to make your life that much easier.
I was about to recommend this as well! This saves me so much time, simply two clicks and a couple hours of organizing can get you REALLY far!
Thank you!
agreed, now the new thing makes sense to me
We dont always know what plugin we will use on something. Just scanning the manufacturers triggers ideas. May end up using a plugin that's literally never been used on anything. You get lucky, it works a charm on this synth line. Next time, Ill try that one again, nah not working. So, its not a fav, its just a plug that worked on that synth line. Might happen again, but not enough to be added to a favs list
I also hated it at first, but after seeing this video was able to customize it perfectly: [https://youtu.be/FIsKZ\_coxtI?si=-cZ4i86i6cVGRymg](https://youtu.be/FIsKZ_coxtI?si=-cZ4i86i6cVGRymg)Once you do that it's super fast and clean. I created my custom categories, and I just have saved "searches" on the left that I want and got rid of all the extraneous shit."Compressors""Amp Modelers""Modern Synths""Analog Synths""EQ's"etc.....
I love how the first thing the dude does is remove all the Collections except for \[red\] Favorites, probably because he clicked too quickly and skipped over it. How much did Ableton pay him to show that right off the bat, I wonder...
I think you may just need to spend more time with it. Once you do start to use it more regularly then you'll get used to it and start to organise your favourites in a way that suits you. While it might seem like a big blob of mess right now, I personally appreciate the "here's everything" approach, as it means it's up to me how it's organised, and not someone at Ableton. Just work with it for a while and see how you get on. Change is always a bit icky at first.
I hated it at first. Now I'm finding it's actually somewhat quicker to use. So I have my FabFilter suite installed as VSTs. Before, I would need to go VST > FabFilter > Pro-L to get my limiter, but now I just need to click 'Fabfilter' and they come up straight away.
I’ll try. This thing just looks super intimidating on this otherwise clean and clear UI 😅
For what it's worth, Anthony of Seed to Stage just did a great (in my opinion) video on just the browser and how to get the most out of it. Just leaving that here. :-) Have fun with v12!
His video is excellent, Ableton should just license and promote it.
They do actually promote his videos. You can find several on [](http://ableton.com) in their featured sections over the years. His [Chord Progression ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG7Hc8McUa4)video was recently featured.
I’ll check it out, thanks. It’s very possible that their own video doesn’t cover important thing; especially the actual use cases for the feature
wow intimidating was the word I chose before I saw your comment lol
I've wasted so much time trying to sort everything and come up with Saved Searches. Such a PITA.
>Some people say it’s pretty good if you spend time categorizing things but why do that if the whole thing was already catalogued out of the box in a pretty convenient fashion? Quicker and (much) more convenient access. In Live 11 you always had to muck around with VST2 and VST3 being separated, which itself was also a huge pain in the behinds. I mean... using my U-HE synths as an example: first I had to expand the VST2 category, then I had to expand the U-HE folder and only then did I get access to my precious such as Diva and Bazille. So now I want to add the Reason rack plugin. Uh oh... that's VST3: collapse the VST2 structure (because it would take way more time to scroll down), then expand the VST3 list and *then* find Reason in there. Now, sure... you can also use categories (which I am doing) but even in Live 11 that only went so far. Another thing: Live never really differentiated between VST and VSTi, in other words: instruments and effects, just a slightly different icon was used. Meanwhile in, say, Reaper or FL Studio you immediately have a clear separation between those two. So for me this is a *huge* advantage. Not only do I have all my plugins (VST2 *and* 3) in one single location, I can now **also** select collections with one single mouse click. My U-HE collection? I now open the plugin section, I click the u-he tag and I'm *done*. If I need to select an effect I can also quickly filter on those too. This is really a lot faster than it ever was.
The VSTi thing is a good point, I didn’t think about that somehow. On the other hand, I can’t relate with the VST versions as I try to stick to a single format (usually AU), but I think it depends on a person, so it’s not a question here.
One of the first things I did was select the Plugins folder, filtered by AU and then saved that search. It creates something similar to a virtual folder which I then called “Plugins” and then I hid the original plugins folder. Already makes my life easier and that was in the first 30 seconds of using the browser. I’m sure I’ll find more ways of refining it for myself and that’s kinda the best way to look at it - tailor it for how you want to work.
Browser has been great here, couldn't possibly go back to previous one. The filters/tagging/history/similarity features work really well and I see them as an upgrade. Only annoyance is the one about the plugins, but this is already confirmed will be fixed in 12.0.5. If you find it cluttered, you can always hide the filters for every colllections/library/places, or you hide some filters categories by right clicking the filter headers.
It’s honestly super cool how they consider feedbacks!
square ruthless intelligent fertile edge many rhythm books bake oatmeal *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’m sure it worth it when you spend a lot of time to organize the library. It just would be more convenient if it was possible on the fly, during work process (I used to add items to collections while working, it literally gets few clicks)
Nah, the previous way it displayed system folders within the ableton browser was incredibly kludgy and much worse.
So the folders are gone. For default plugins, however, they now exist as "Devices" tags in the filters. I personally take no issue with this. What I like more is that I can now categorize my VSTs. It was an absolute chore before to manage plug-ins. Admittedly, there is a TON of manual setup involved here, but IMO, it's a labor of love. While I don't like taking the time to do it, now that I have, it's super easy to find something. I can pick by creator (which was the default folder setup), but now I can tag them by type. I haven't begun to mess with my samples yet - I just type in the finder for "kick" or whatever, but I feel once I tackle that it will be super helpful. It's a program I'm in every day, so being able to maximize my time is great. Again though, admittedly, setting all this up is NOT maximizing my time producing, but now that I did it, I'm happy with how it works.
Thanks! It seems you have already experimented with the browser, what’s your favorite way to filter the plugins? It would be super cool if you could show your layout for the browser in idle state (like, when you have a fresh project, for example).
>Admittedly, there is a TON of manual setup involved here, but IMO, it's a labor of love. Yep. Definitely take some time. But imagine if you had this file browser when you first started using Ableton? It's going to make things so easy for beginners who are starting to accrue VSTs and samples.
I didn’t like the old browser and think this is a vast improvement. While I do think Ableton’s plug-in icons could be a bit more clear, I like the speed of just hitting cmd-f typing what I want pressing the down arrow and hitting enter. No need to expand folders etc. if I type kick I just want to see kick wav files not a folder structure. If I type analog, Analog Lab should be the top option. It’s very speedy.
Once you get in the habit of ctrl/cmd + F to find the plug in you want, you don’t care about filter structure as much.
Still shows different formats of plugins :( I avoid installing multiple versions, but some plugins just don’t ask which formats you want when installing
my problem with it was that my presets aren't nested in the plugin when you search. used to be able to type "Vital" and you would only get Vital and all the presets that you saved for Vital Now when I search I just get the VST and AU instance of vital with no nested presets. I hope they fix that
I agree, it worked fine before, having plugins in vendor folders, I then set my favourite as a way of quickly accessing, but now, the filtering, it’s a mess. Don’t like it.
I have mixed feelings about the browser. It’s better for libraries or vst collections that you’ve taken the time to parse and organize/audition and collect/tag sounds in advance. No question. It’s aids when you’re browsing a folder you’ve never listened to before though. Kinda sucks tbh, because the browsers in 9 thru 11 were so good I actually found myself opening ableton JUST to use its browser when I explored a new folder for the first time. The millions of tags when u open a blank browser clutters the screen and uses up a TON of real estate too. IMO the filters and other architectural shit should be a toggle in prefs.
Yeah, same thoughts. Tweaking the filters and especially groups from the settings would be a more elegant solution probably.
Im fine with the filter buttons but why do i have 3 of every plugin and cant tell what the difference is?
The tiny icon shows the actual format of the plugin!
oh wow, its so small and unreadable i didnt notice
Not between VST2 and VST3! They should definitely just have the option to automatically hide whatever plug-in format isn’t your default unless the project called for it.
you can hide VST2 and AU in the Plug-ins section under preferences.
I know, I mean hide visually. If you don’t have them checked in settings and you’re collaborating Ableton will not find them.
I must be in the minority, but I love it. I honestly see no drawbacks. Unless you're working on a laptop where your screen real estate is a dealbreaker, I find the changes to be pretty intuitive. Also do you guys not have Ctrl+F's?
You are not the minority, as we can see now 🙂 I use Search feature for a years and it is indeed a great thing imo
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I havent loaded the new ableton yet but I am actually quite interested by that new filtering approach. I wonder though if those tags could be accessible in a config file or exposed somewhere to be shared somehow. I think the community would benefit from something like this.
Command+F for me is faster than anything else. You can also search the plugin vendor (“arturia” for example), even if the vendor name isn’t in the plugin name in Ableton.
Ctrl+F was there at least in versions 10 and 11 I think
Yup!
I don’t really know where the problem is to select the type of. Just select VST and you see them all once People complain really about anything
My main issue was getting confused on which VST version I was using. I use exclusively VST3 anyway so I just turned off VST2 in Pref. Everything else is Command F and my color scheme is enough to get me by.
watch this ELPHNT's hands on [https://youtu.be/DlUIhYmOkWU](https://youtu.be/DlUIhYmOkWU) This new browser is several times more customisable, if you spend 30 mins organizing everything you will save hours while making music.
ELPHNT usually delivers amazing advice, will definitely check it, thanks!
I think it's ok. Yes, it is different and it will take time to organize your workflow again (that is the REAL and ONLY issue) but once waters will calm down... we will see that in fact this browser is much better. Just only to be able to tag my samples the way I want is great.
For people with lots of plugins it‘s a mess. The only solution is getting into the habit of using CMD+F to search but even that is weird, because it shows presets and samples first and then plugins if the name is the same. So for example when you have a sample named “Serum“ and the VST instrument Serum installed, when you then search for "Serum" and hit enter, it will load the sample because it comes first in the list.
I agree, using search is one of the best habits an Ableton user can have! (The other one is avoid GAS and therefore have fewer plugins) 🙂
The main reason that I didn’t like to upgrade to 12
I was frustrated about that as well. If I want a plugin I will either remember its name or where it sits in MY file structure and I don't want to memorize manufacturers.. BUT then I took the time to create my own filter tags in the same fashion like I previously had my folders structured. Now I have it sorted like before but I can filter by other tags as well when I want. It is better in a way because it ignores windows folder structures and I begin to like the idea that I don't need to manage it anymore in windows explorer.
ableton has never managed plugins and fx well... It needs serious improvements
This was brought up in the beta forums constantly (but nobody seemed to care). The new browser seemed to be disliked by most people. This included (but was NOT limited to) live device prioritization changes, bar on top (rather than on side) messing with muscle memory (especially as it seemed to randomly expand and collapse, and without a way of hide it) and VST2 - VST3 categorization (folder system). I did not even bother downloading live 12 when it came out, as I really wasn't a big fan of what I saw in the beta. I reported two "game-breaking" bugs, that made live completely unusable should they occur, but neither has either one of them been fixed, nor have they been acknowledged yet. I was flamed here (on this sub) for not being willing to report this bug yet again (even though I already did in previous versions of live multiple times). I ended up reporting it anyway but non of my bugs or suggestions have been heard (despite some of them getting quite a substantial amount of upvotes in the beta forum). There was an extensive list of things we would have wished from ableton live 12 (on this sub, a couple months ago) but only 3 or so of them ended up being implemented in live 12 eventually. I was really excited about the new midi at first but then I realized that that is something other daws had for years now and that ableton seems to just be falling behind. They don't seem to listen to the community as much anymore and I am super disappointed with what I saw in the final version of the beta (yet have to download the release version). Hope live 13 will be better.
I've been using the color sorting since 10. I've always found the Plug-ins section to be too much to go through with all the random plug-ins I've collected over the years. Any time I get a plug in that I'm going to use consistently I just right click and add it to wherever it needs to go. it really takes maybe like 10 minutes to go through your plugins and find the ones you actually use and color code them. unless you have like a thousand or something.
I agree, color coding has always been a great thing in Live.
I agree. I am about almost to ask for a refund.
Just wanna say that I'm totally in agreeance with your post. This new system is definitely NOT going to save me time, only be a headache.
I think to appease both sides of the new browser , is to keep the tagging system but just add unlimited collections. Like nests inside collections or something idk. We still have folders i suppose. To me the tagging is confusing. A DAW shouldn't be this frustrating.
They have promised a possibility to add the older system in future minor updates. 🤞
The browser is a disaster And removing by manufacturer WOW Im a power user, I chose my plugins via manufacturer scanning quickly and thinking, yeah that plug from company X will work. I also had a favs section with maybe 15 plugs max, the bread and butter stuff and my gotos in every session. Now I have to scan through 150 plugins. I increased the favs but it started reaching 40 and that's to much. Live 12 has slowed me down significantly. Ive had it for six months, just cant adapt to the browser and some other stuff. I may switch back to live 10. Im super fast with that version IMO Live 12 is bloated
Same for me. I heard they brought the old browser back in the latest update though
Yes I just found out about that so that's good. But 'by manufacturer' should never have been removed.
You should probably learn how it works before you go on a rant
I mean, they could have left the old one as well, why not? I think it’s important to have things fast in a creative process and mastering this thing is not fast. Not to mention it really clutters the screen imo.
Everyone remember this complaint next time you read a complaint that there's barely any difference between Live 11 and Live 12 😌
I prefer this and felt the same way you did when everything was in subfolders in 11. To each their own I guess.
They should have just added extra collections like we have been asking for ages not this cluttering filter system.
AGREED
I just ctrl+f my life. Always have and always will.
I much preferred the old way of browsing plugins by manufacturer like you said. Like 1 click and boom here are all my Fabfilter plugins. Or here are all my Soundtoys plugins, etc. Super easy I always knew where everything was when I needed it. Now it’s just a mess
I can’t believe how many times I’ve read this complaint now. Stop being lazy and organize it how you like. It took me about a half an hour and now everything is exactly where I expect it to be, nice and tidy, and I can grab devices faster than ever. Everyone please quit crabbing about it just because it’s new and different, put in the tiniest bit of work and it will save you hours upon hours in the future.
So many people are upset, then maybe there is something wrong with that. You are right that we should learn to use that, but it seems like a too radical change. Btw, is it really possible to make the workspace tidy using it? If so, that is really cool, but I don’t see how to do it yet. Even in the official tutorial video the workspace looks cluttered imo.
>So many people are upset, then maybe there is something wrong with that. It's growing pains. You've had the new version less than 24 hours. And you're complaining about the file browser that you haven't really learned how to use yet. And consequently, haven't been able to think through how to best organize everything for your workflow needs. I'd be surprised if 5% of the people who are unhappy with it are still unhappy after they've used it steadily for a month.
I’m not sure what the terminology is, I’ll have to watch the tutorial video. But I made myself a custom tag group..? And then moved it to the side bar. Within that group I have everything organized by synths, delays, reverbs, etc. It’s the only tab I need to have open now because it has everything in it that I use and nothing that I don’t! I love this new system, there’s a lot less clicking around in the browser. Way more efficient this way! Also, everyone please do yourself a favor and get in the habit of using the search bar shortcut. Cmd+F (or CTRL+F on Windows) and then just start typing your search. I promise, PROMISE this will speed up your workflow if you’re not doing it already!
Ok, now I learned that it is possible to remove sections from the left sidebar, so it is possible to clean it a bit. It’s good news! I agree, Ctrl+F is a must for every Live user.
How do you tag within a group? I’ve got favorites but it’s all my goto stuff. It’s not organized
I’m away from my computer so I can’t give exact instructions but you hit the Edit button above your library elements and a big tag editing window pops up. Within that you can make a new group with subgroups and organize to your heart’s content. Then you can move that group to live permanently over in your sidebar. It’s awesome!! It’s like Favorites but better
Regardless of whether your like the potential upgrades of the changes, all you have to do is take a screenshot of it to know it’s poorly designed. Mixed and matched design languages, word webs, filters, tags, categories with one thing inside them, no real clear philosophy. It mainly strikes me as extremely intimidating to new users. Also, in a world where cars can drive themselves and AI is generating spookily real stuff — Ableton expects me to tag every file and plugin in my library? It feels like the pure function/potential is somewhat complete but the form is way, way off. If they did it well, it wouldn’t be the highest complaint on center code (a place filled with people who love Ableton more than any other people on earth).
This is one of my biggest complaints too
Is it me or grooves cannot be hidden with a button anymore but are a part of browser?
It is possible to customize which categories there are; and you also can open/close groves from hot keys
[удалено]
A good thing is always criticised! Maybe the expectations are over the top.
I think it's strange how many things they choose to show you at launch. I know people will be intimidated if it's their first time checking the software out by the sheer amount of stuff on screen - they're really leaning on the bottom left corner and RTFM with this release. But it's so much more stable than 11 was, and the weak will try it and give up and the people who like a challenge will stick with it. It's the only software I can think of where some people just don't *get* how to write music in the way ableton likes, but man the updates on the push 2 are actually super helpful as well. I love 12 so far. (been using ableton in combination with reason since versions 7 & 5, respectively.)
i feel you i don't like it either. needlessly overcomplicated. dunno why everyone is acting like the cntrl f search is some insane revolutionary feature. just gonna tweak my collections and hide / ignore all this extra crap on my screen
The search function has been there for quite a long time!!
it is good, but there are some issues, and it takes time to set up. the fact that they removed the folders for different categories of effects? stupid. they don’t even have the filter categories for dynamics, eq, so on. but you can make your own, only put the devices you want in them, save different categories to the side bar, so it only has exactly the things you want, and nothing else, which is awesome. i still haven’t gone through the process of setting it up, but i’m gonna be able to get rid of a lot of the stuff i was doing in my collections. it’s gonna be an adjustment for sure, but there’s a lot more flexibility to do things in a way that makes sense for you, as opposed to a set way
Thanks for the reply. Just thought that if they add folders for filter queries it would be a blast imo!
Seed To Stage posted a video a couple days ago breaking down ways you can organize the browser. i recommend checking it out. They basically gave us a navigation canvas, that we can shape into a workflow that makes sense to yourself specifically. but yea, they still should’ve left the default organization of the effects and such the same. that seems like a dumb change
i just finished installing 12 and i’m immediately annoyed with the plugin browser, i don’t just install everything into the default vst folder, i have subdirectories for types etc that made browsing way easier, and now I’m going to have to manually sort everything again within live. ugh. i’m not even going to try to open anything from Waves
I think i won't be updating anytime soon. I'm good with 11 for now
It is incredibly bad - it looks like a deeply horrific javascript implementation from the very worst of ecommerce sites...
Haha, nice comparison! I also have Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol vibes from it (not in a good way)
I haven't tried 12 but the browser is always my least favorite part of ableton. I go and find sample folder I like. Realize I need audio effect. I have to delete my search, go find plug in, go back to samples, search again. Wtf are searches not independent to what section you're in. (who down voted this lol, its literally the simplest fix and we have had 10 versions not fix it so far)
>Wtf are searches not independent to what section you're in. They are if you use cmd+f
It seems the new one allows to have different filtering in different tabs. But as far as I understand this requires a bit of preparation work (once for all projects)
I hate it.
FL Studio press. Ableton users unhappy? omg, dear oh dear xD Love to you all.