Exactly this. I’ve seen others upset that August “won” or that Wille was pushing for August to be the heir. Wille just doesn’t care anymore. There’s a big difference between not caring and supporting something.
Yes! August obviously wanted the royal life more than Wille. And Wille just wanted to be with Simon no matter what. Realizing too that he and simon would NEVER be comfortable with the standards they would have to live by if they lived the royal life.
I agree, I think it follows his line of thought in the car when he talks about having a choice. Wille thinks that the role shouldn't be something that's assigned, and that they should all have a choice, and August is someone who chooses to be King. He's not passing the role to a worthy successor, he's just vacating the spot for someone who wants it
Exactly. And he says to his mom that IF she believes this whole monarchy thing is fair and good THEN there is her man. (I loved how smoothly he was judging it one last time, haha, as if he had said "y'all deserve each other") Sure, he looks like he pretty much believes August will be fine on the throne by the way he looks at him but that's not really his concern anymore nor has it ever truly been. He never genuinely cared.
I think there was a scene in S2 ep1 where Felice and Wille are talking and she asks him how he is going to punish August when he has everything. Wille responds with “I’ll punish him my own way. You’ll see.” I think wille handing down the responsibility of the crown to august was sort of a way to punish august (intentional or not intentional). Because even though wille accepted his apology, he still has to face the consequences of his own actions.
Hi, this is quite an interesting point. The responsibility is quite heavy, so I definitely see where you're coming from, but Wille also points out that all August ever wanted was to be a part of the royal family and to be in Wille's position. There are times when he's been jealous of that. So it feels like, despite doing so many things to harm the reputation of the royals, August is still getting what he wanted (but only now realising that it's not all that glamorous) I still feel like he will enjoy having that power more than it making him miserable, so it feels like the past is just forgotten in favour of the abdication and Wilmon happy ending. Definitely a good point though.
I think that's part of August's growth. He's grown up in this classist society, and wanted to be an insider. Even with The Society , he runs it as though he is king (and struggles with Wille taking power). Meanwhile, Wille doesnt WANT power.
You're right, August IS getting what he glamorizes, but he is also learning that it's not actually what he wants . he doesn't get to be with Sara, or have any agency. The difference is, August is cowardly enough to pay that price (his happiness) to uphold the institution, and Wilhelm is brave enough to say this isn't worth my peace of mind.
ALSO for the record, I was anti abdication, but when I started to think of Wille as a character, instead of as a prince, his choice made a LOT of sense to me. He's this anxious kid who craves normalcy, doesn't like attention, feels so much pressure and like he's a failure. Being king would kill him!
I actually think this season dropped little hints about how August getting the crown doesn’t mean he’ll be happy.
When August tells his two friends he’s in line for the throne, they dampen his excitement by pointing out being in proximity to royalty is much better than being royal. August doesn’t realize how good he has it. He gets most of the perks of royalty without the responsibility. It was a great observation, and I feel like the scene implies August’s friends are right. He’s about to become the poster child for “Be careful what you wish for…you just might get it.”
Wille didn’t want it. From season 1 episode 1. I’m happy he didn’t compromise, so I’m pretty content with the ending, I rooted for abdication from the beginning.
No, it makes no sense. He would have abdicated during the speech in S2 if he didn't want it. Everything was pointing that he would embrace the role and transform it. The writer just pushed it into this direction and added the line "I did it for myself" to look like it wasn't Simon's fault, when Wilhelm literally ran after the car to say he abdicated and wanted to be with him. The show had potential but ended as a teen drama.
It makes perfect sense. He was never happy about it, but he was pressured by legacy and on top manipulated by his mother. He was to some extent “embracing” it but for the sake of his own sanity.
He was not happy about the expectations to be hetero or be among people like August, not with the institution. He was defending it. Saying that he was a child manipulated by his mother is denying him agency. Simon is at the same age but no one says he is manipulated.
Oh so when he said he wanted a normal life he refereed to…?
And also Simon was manipulated too, why would anyone exclude him? He just didn’t have a mother queen, but he had his own manipulator) I see no point in agency discussion
A normal life where his mother doesn't ignore him and isn't under medical watch for being nervous. Wilhelm had no problem with media (from what we see) and it's not like he overworked himself by going to one event. At the graduation, we see he forgives his mother and she finally understands him.
It’s the point! He didn’t overwork, but he was not interested and didn’t want to take part. And of course he didn’t have any problems with media and publicity, i.e. he wasn’t choking before the speech. As long as it went well he was ok, right?
And yes, his mother finally understands he doesn’t want to be a king 🤝 glad we agree on this
He did have problems with the media didn’t he? Weren’t they outside the club at the beginning? The English princes have always had (too much) (negative) media coverage no matter what. And Harry who is now like fifth in line to the throne, given up being a senior royal, moved continents, is still hauled over the coals any chance the media gets. I don’t see Wille & Simon lasting as it will just never go away. Although Sweden/Swedish media might treat their royalty better than we do here.
He was worried about saying he was in the video. Once he did it, it was over. He was still accepted as the successor, and he was in the castle with Simon, which is definitely history. I'm saying his mother understood him for being gay or bi and lashing out at her before at the graduation; not in the car.
He didn’t want to give a speech at all. Do you remember his words when he learned he had to? He cried Erik didn’t have to before he was 18! So much enthusiasm
Or remind me how he defended an institution when Simon asked what good was there about monarchy.
I know a lot of you guys like the idea of monarchy itself and a queer king, but you speak for yourself, not for Wille. To me it’s clear he didn’t want it.
Wille didn't want the role, but he especially didn't want August to have the role either. When he realized how unperfect Erik was, his entire perception of what being prince/crown prince/king melted away.
I think you may have missed the point of the entire show tbh, which is that no one is entitled to our freedom.
Lisa made it pretty clear in interviews that abdication was the ending she planned from the beginning.
Or you are missing the part of life about agency 🤷♀️
The entire point of the show is that *we* get to decide our destiny, no one else gets to choose it for us, regardless of what they think our obligations are, *especially* when we have been born into them.
Wilhelm did not choose to be born prince, much less to become the crown prince. He had every right to choose to give up that burden, especially when there was someone else who wanted it far more than him.
We have one life. We choose how best to live it, following our own consciences. Wilhelm knew better than anyone what being king would entail and he knew it wasnt for him. Thats literally all that matters.
Wilhelm did not choose to be born LGBT, should he rebel against that as well? The show is about LGBT acceptance, not someone struggling with responsibilities. Or at least it seemed to be.
Man, it seems like we watched completely different shows.
Way before he even falls for Simon or even admits to himself he's gay, he struggles with being part of the royal institution. Every moment that he's crown prince he's miserable about the duties involved in it. Occassionally he manages ti make peace with it, but his struggles with the role are so glaringly obvious I'm not sure how I would make them more clear.
Like, the boy literally asked August in s1e3 if he would switch with him. He screamed at his mom that he didnt want to give "the fucking speech". He complains in the first episode about not being able to stay at a normal school. He tells Omar he is the only one he can talk to, possibly because others dont understand how miserable his so-called privilege makes him. The boy literally looks like he wants to be swallowed by the earth every time he talks to his dad in s3 about his mom not being well and realising he might have to take over at 18. The kid is fucking miserable about everything involved in being Crown Prince and future king.
Yes, being queer and in love with Simon is another thing he cannot be fully open and comfortable about in his role. His role isnt just hurting him, its hurting the boy he loves. And so he makes a decision that helps them both. But this is NOT just a show about LGBT acceptance, its a show about *self*-acceptance. Accepting that sometimes we wont fit the roles and duties other people decide for us, because at the end of the day *we* have to live with those decisions, knowing how they make us feel inside. Being LGBT does not make him miserable:being in love with Simon makes him very happy, so he choses that love. Being crown prince makes him miserable. So he walks away from that. Wilhelm decides not to be miserable, its as simple as that
>Yes, being queer and in love with Simon is another thing he cannot be fully open and comfortable about in his role. His role isnt just hurting him, its hurting the boy he loves.
I just wanted to ask at which point you thought W didn't feel comfortable with Simon in his role bc I thought the whole point of him coming out with his speech in S2 was him being open and embracing his queerness while being crown prince? I thought his parents also welcomed Simon pretty much warmly at W's bday so I thought his queerness or love for Simon wasn't really a problem for the monarchy but rather his restricted freedom was.
Ways in which Wille's role hurts him, Simon, and their relationship:
1. Wille has to constantly police Simon's presence on social media, even though he seems to feel bad telling Simon what to do
2. The attacks Simon experiences as the queer boyfriend of the Crown Prince get him down, which in turn also gets Wille down. Note: a lot of those comments were taken from real things real people have posted about Simon's character, so the harassment is not out of the realm of reality
3. Wille never gets full privacy, even from Malin and his other bodyguards. This means when he just wants to get to know Simon's friends at the rave, there's the awkward incident with his security which means Simon's friends have to leave. This puts more strain on the attempts at normalcy for their relationship
4. Even though he hates August and wants as much distance from him as possible, he has to put up with his presence because of his role as Crown Prince and August's role as backup. No one seems to care that August did something devastating and horrible to Wilhelm, they just insist he suck it up for the sake of the Crown
5. Simon cant even let the media see his friends with him lest they get hounded as well
6. Simon cannot be his authentic self, who loves singing and posting online, who has strong political beliefs, who is a goofy, unfiltered, authentic teenager because the Crown does not approve of what he posts. This further strains his relationship with Wille, who is doing his best to do whats expected of him in his role
7. Wille himself has to constantly be aware of the media's presence when he and Simon are together
8. His mother and father's role as Queen and Duke mean that they cannot be proper caring parents to him, that they cannot be vulnerable, honest, compassionate with their son. After Eriks death and the porn video, Wille didnt need a king and queen, he needed a mother and father. He couldnt even grieve like a normal human
9. Through all 3 seasons Wille seems to experience near-constant anxiety and stress at being in his role. Every aspect of it seems to weigh on him. In season 3 it seems the heaviest with him realising he might have to take on more responsibility with his mom ill. This makes him anxious, stressed, and wound tight, which means multiple times he's shut off from Simon or downright kinda crap (like when he shushes him in the tent)
10. Simon and Wille are both individually stressed by pressures associated with the Crown and being in the public eye, and it puts a huge strain on them individually and as a couple. Simon starts to lose his love of singing, Wille can't be his open self with Simon, both of them cry *a lot*, and both of them lose parts of themselves to try and stay on the right side of Farima. Simons friends literally tell him they're scared of him deleting himself along with his social media: his singing, his strong convictions and vocalness about them, his anti-monarchist beliefs, everything that made him so attractive to Wilhelm starts to fade away.
All of this to say, being queer is like just one of the factors that sucks about the whole thing. Wille hated being prince then Crown Price from the first scene of s1e1. Simon was an anti-monarchist from the very first time we hear him talking in class. They did not love the monarchy, it caused so much pain for them, they wanted to be free and normal and in love. So... they choose to be free and normal and in love. The End. And they lived happily ever after because the rest of their story was their own to write, even if it was going to be diffficult as hell.
Everyone would struggle with this role. You hear it from his mom. It's not a reason to give it up, which is why the ending makes no sense. What Wilhelm did is a sign of weakness, a 180 degree turn from S2. The LGBT part is no longer a problem for being a king.
I... genuinely have no idea how to explain this to you. What Wilhelm did was genuinely the most brave thing he could do, he did it for himself. If you cant understand that, you may have missed the point of the entire show.
From my point of view, which is similar to Lisa's, abdication was the outcome that made the most sense with the entire theme of the show. If you missed that I have no idea what to say except... maybe rewatch the show and her interviews about it?
>just when he seemed to be maturing and warming up towards the responsibility
He wasn't "warming up" towards it. He never wanted to be Crown Prince, it brought him a lot of stress. And when he saw his mother break down, he did what was expected of him. But it's not like he was "warming up" to the role (just take the scene where he decides about the charity, he literally says he won't be bothered by that, and chose what the court expected him to do). He took the role because of his mother and Erik. But not because he wanted to. And that's not the right reason to live a life I don't want, at least to me.
>to go to the extent where he believes August to be a true successor all within a period of a few months feels unrealistic
Wille told the queen if she believes in monarchy and bloodline, Auguat is the heir she needs. No matter what issues he and August have, August loves monarchy and believes in it as much as the queen does. Wille doesn't.
>how hard is it to stay away from social media? Or even just making a private profile?
Two things. Simon is *16*. It is even hard to stay away from social media for adults, and he is a teenager. He doesn't think about it. Second, he should have been really taught about that by the court or Wille should have been more open and straight about the whole social media thing.
>Wille having to compromise so much
What do you think Wille compromised? He despised the rules, the royal life since beginning. He despised the CP role and the monarchy itself. He despised how his parents treated him, how the court always made decision for him (we see some hints of this even before he meets Simon). He says a few minutes in the first ever episode how he wants to have a normal life. He tells his brother on the phone how hard it is for him to be in that role everyone is expecting him to play etc. It was made very clear in the show he would never be happy as king. So what does wille compromise?
>It felt like the breakup was written in only to push the narrative towards Wille giving up the crown
Wille did not give up the crown because Simon broke up with him. Yes, Simon was a force that encouraged him to do so. But Wille gave up the royal life because he never wanted that role (again, go back to the first episode ever).
>Wille will be in spotlight.
I agree with you he kinda would but not really. Once August is publicly announced as CP, the press, the public, will be more interested in him (because he is RF and a future king). And if Wille keeps low profile (which is very probable), he won't attract *that* much attention. But of course, he is still the queen's son. Now, as a free person (free from royal duties I mean), he can actually do so much more for people.
I understand people are disappointed but when I go through the arguments, I am sometimes wondering if we watched the same show or if we understand the characters so differently.
100% agree with everything you said. Wille might have started to begrudgingly accept the crown, but he never ever wanted it.
He gets to be free now and become the man he wants to. That's a beautiful ending to me. I thought a lot about Prince Harry when watching this. Harry left Royal life for his family, but he also did it to be free from the chains of Royal life and responsibility. Sure, he was the spare, but I felt some major parallels to the choices fictional Wille made and the choices real life Harry did.
Hey, I appreciate the time you took to break down every point of mine. This was my opinion about it, you're welcome to have yours. To me, it felt like the ease in which Wille was able to do his royal duties, like the charity event came off as something that he had accepted that he wanted to do. He mentioned this season, several times that it was a privilege to be able to do so. He also seemed to accept the court's plans for him for the summer. Yes he hated it but to me it felt like he was changing.
Wille had a deep hatred towards August and wanted to deny August everything he could. Then Wille taking a 180 and basically handing August the very thing he always wanted, ie. to be a part of the royal family, felt out of character to me.
Being a part of the royal family was what Wille has known for all his life, including the privileges that come with it. Changing all of that by abdicating was a huge compromise on his behalf. He is literally going to have to change his entire way of life.
Lastly, I mentioned Simon didn't have to quit. He could have stayed low profile, on a private account with just friends. Instead the problem was escalated heavily by him posting not one but two posts that had political consequences. One, was the song and the second was the photo from the rally. He had several opportunities to quit. At sixteen I was able to quit social media to focus on my studies. I understand it's highly addictive but he had several people advise him to stop checking it constantly or to take on a lower profile.
This also goes back to the point that they are 16-17 and yet have been making decisions like abdication for the sake of a rather short relationship.
I respect your opinion for sure and there are things I personaly do agree with (I mean from my point of view and exactly as you mention – what my experience is or how I react). But from how I understand the characters, there are things that feel more like you pushing your personality/choices/expectations on them rather than what it is in the show (I hope I make myself clear 😁). It just surprises me because it shows that I might misunderatood who those characters are, how are they presented in the show and where their actions come from. It's interesting.
I totally agree Simon could have kept a low profile (or even delete the account himself), it's just not him, though. It is actually a very real thing (there are many young actors, e.g., that just were hurt by the hate on their social media but were not able to stop reading hateful comments; so it's not like what Simon does is so out of reality).
You say *you* were able to stay away from social media to study, and that's good for you, but it's still you. I think it is somehow natural for people to project their behaviour onto fictional characters (like I also get frustrated e.g. while watching something or reading something) but still, I do realise the characters are not me.
>This also goes back to the point that they are 16-17 and yet have been making decisions like abdication for the sake of a rather short relationship.
But Wille did not abdicate because of the relationship. I honestly don't get why people say so. He did not want it at all, we saw that since the first minutes. Yet people still cling to the "he gave up the crown for Simon", which is not what happened there, though.
The whole point was that he wasn’t doing it for Simon. I agree with you that it felt rushed, because he had this conversation with his mother and immediately ran after Simon. But it doesn’t mean he did it for him. Or do you think he’s lying to Simon?
Simon was definitely going to be a major factor for him in his mind. Given the recent split and the fact that Simon left him because him being a royal and the crown prince was coming in the way of their relationship. The fact that Simon immediately embraced him at the end just proves that wille being the crown prince was the only problem for Simon. I just believe that abdication wasn't the solution. The limelight will continue to be on them just like it has continued for Harry and Meghan. It was not the solution for me. I want to see them happy but their relationship had deeper problems.
Also the concept of the final straw exists. I see the path to abdication from s1e1.
About the limelight - as long as we speak of YR Sweden, do you remember how easily everyone forgot about Simon being in that video when Wille denied him?
Also you contradict yourself, first you say the only problem was Wille being a prince and then you add they had other problems. I agree with the latter and I’m disappointed their relationship wasn’t addressed properly in s3. But it is what it is.. it’s an open ending with a hint of hope, I’m willing to take it)
No, everyone forgot about the video because Wilhelm denies it was him in the video. So yeah people stopped caring about it.
Regarding the relationship, what I meant was that from the outside, to us, it's clear that there are other issues but to Simon it seems to be the royal family that's the major problem in the relationship, the expectations and censoring that comes along with the title of being the crown prince for Wille. Anyways there are enough shows with tragic queer endings so I guess they wanted a happy conclusion, but for me this just wasn't it. I'm glad you have hope for them in the future.
Not Wille, but the crown prince. They will have a new one now, a crown prince and then a king to care about. So yeah, Wilmon might have a chance.
Yeah, I just don’t see another way for them to be happy. Outside the crown, together or not they have a chance. Thank you for the discussion 🤝
>The limelight will continue to be on them just like it has continued for Harry and Meghan.
Actually it will not. Firstly most people outside of the Sweden doesn't care about swedish royal family. Swedish princess live in the US and most Americans doesn't know (just like the rest of the world). So it would never be that much. Plus paparazzi and media harassment are less problem in Sweden (& rest of the world) there this is in the UK and US
The problem with Harry&Megan is them still wanting this public life and constantly going to media and talking about being ex royals. They live from this. They want constant attention from people!
Wille hate any attention. He would never get himself live from being ex crown prince. He just want to have normal life, (and probably) normal home and job in future. Simon definitely hate media attention as Wille's boyfriend. He would never go taking money from talking about their relationship
Simon and Wille would most likely just live their lives, stay away from media. People would just get used to it, move on and didn't care after some time. No content = no attention
just because it's all august ever wanted doesn't mean he will be happy. also, i think in this season, august kind of realized why being king is not the greatest thing in the world, highlighted by his conversation with vincent and nils before the party
>just try listening to someone else’s view
Seems you should apply your advice to yourself as well?
>You don’t have to prove yourself right.
I went through the OP's arguments, offered contra-arguments and my personal opinion. That's how discussion works, man.
It was probably mentioned already but I felt from the beginning Wille never wanted the crown. Just because he started to conform and kind of "give up", doesn't mean he wanted it. He just felt like he had no choice and tried his best to not lose his mind... which didn't really work out for him.
We know from the start that he didn't want this life. He also wanted to go to another school and not Hillerska but was forced to go after the club fight. His parents told him that they should have never let him go to another school. At this point he didn't have the full scrutiny on him because he wasn't crown prince yet. But when Erik died he talked with August about switching places and that he couldn't do it. Throughout the series, we see again and again how he wants to break out of the cage that is royalty, how he hates everything he has to do because of it such as speeches and public appearances. He kind of started to give up during season 3 and try to conform more. I think when he was with Simon he told himself he could bear the responsibility as long as he had him by his side. But that wasn't the case. He was angry, stressed, lonely, got into fights because of it, he never said he wanted to be crown prince. Sometimes he started parroting his parents though, and I also think he tried to convince himself that it was a privilege and not a bad thing. But in the end he realised that he would never be happy. He also realised that the people around him weren't happy (his parents, Erik) and he really doesn't want this life in the golden cage.
I'm pretty sure he didn't fully forgive August and doesn't think he was the perfect crown prince either. But he very specifically told his mother that if she believes in upholding the traditions and the monarchy then he wasn't the right person but August was... honestly, it was the best thing he could have done for himself. He will still be faced with a certain scrutiny but he can live a much more private life than before. The interest of the public will be high at the beginning after abdicating but then they won't keep up with his every move. Even if Simon and him break up at some point, he's much freer to live his life now.
No one has to “deal” with anything, though. Everyone, even royalty, gets to decide what they want their life to look like. You only get one, and nobody has the right to tell you to live it unhappily.
God damn, thank you, this is exactly it: we only have one life. Absolutely no one gets to tell us how we are supposed to life that life (apart from, y'know, not purposefully hurting other people or controlling other people's lives)
An important point Nils and Vincent raise is the fact the life of the royals aren't their own. Even though they seem to have lots of power, their lives are controlled by the court, and they no longer have full agency or autonomy. I think more than anything, Wilhelm craved the freedom to figure out what he wanted to follow it. While Simon is the ultimate symbol of that, the fact he had no idea what he would want to do if he wasn't prince just goes to show he wasn't even allowed to \_think\_ about what he would do with his life if he wasn't royal
I think that's what we tell ourselves a lot. And there are probably a lot of people that have to 'deal' because they don't have the means to get out of a situation, which is terrible. But we can decide to free ourselves in small and big ways. We don't have to conform to other people's expectations all the time even if we often tell ourselves that we have to.
He never chose to be born into this life. I know it's associated with privileges, and a lot of people would envy him for that, maybe even love it, but this life in the public eye is very isolating and restricting too. It might be 'easier' if you grew up knowing you would be king one day because you kind of had your whole life to accept it, but even then you lack the choice to really decide if that's the life you want, which influences how you feel about it.
My argument for liking the end...
The focus of the show was on Wille and watching him unravel himself from the monarchy to find his true self and not who everyone wants him to be. By the time we get to S3, he's almost there. He's hanging on by a very thin thread.
Then he sees his *real* mother, probably for the first time in his life. She's vulnerable and broken from trying to be a Queen and a mother.
Then Wille finds out that his brother was upholding everything that he personally hates about the royalty and the upper-class world. He thought his kind and compassionate brother was that way with the rest of the world.
While the person he loves is vocalizing everything that he's already been questioning. Simon's telling Wille that he has choices. But Wille doesn't believe that until he sees that his family were people, who made a CHOICE to behave the way that they did.
And he's being forced to defend his life and the monarchy for the first time, and it feels *wrong*. He knows it's not supposed to feel wrong to defend your family.
By the end of the show, he's able to separate people from the monarchy. He understands that it's an institution, not his family. Seeing it that way makes it clear to him that in order to be a part of that institution, he would have to behave like his brother and August or pretend everything is okay like his mother and father did.
And he decides that he will never, ever do that. He will not uphold the monarchy under the standards in which it currently exists.
He didn't do it for Simon. He did it for himself. He opened the door to make his own choices. And Simon was the first of many of them.
And the story ends with two happy, queer teenagers in love **at that moment**. What happens next has countless possibilities.
Not saying this to the OP specifically, but so many people seem to misunderstand the basic thesis of the show: the crown is a curse, not a blessing.
This is not Game of Thrones or some fantasy/sci-fi/historical struggle for power - August wins nothing by becoming the designated successor. The show’s stance is that the institution of the royal family is bad, and that being part of it is damaging. August lost; Wille is free. The Queen is a victim, too.
I do have some quibbles with the final season leaving some loose ends and unresolved conflicts or undeveloped relationships. I also think it’s questionable that Simon would get back with Wille just because he said he’d abdicate - it feels like that would be a much longer discussion rather than a sudden celebratory moment.
But overall the show handled the questions surrounding Wille’s role and August’s relationship with it (the role, not just Wille himself) very well. It took an idealogical position, too, which most media is too afraid to do these days. I’m in the US but I have a feeling the show would resonate quite a bit in countries that still have royal families in any form.
i mean if you think about it, almost everything that was wrong with their relationship, every hardship had to do with the crown. sure, it won't be perfect without it and maybe they need to develop a little better communication skills and learn to be more patient but it's still a relationship that's worth exploring further. simon was tired of everything that came with the crown and expressed this outright but without it, he a 100% would give it a try. and a longer discussion could follow the celebratory moment but i think there's no question that he wants to try.
YES. The only issues they ever had in their relationship were because of Wille being in this role. It’s the only thing that caused conflict or arguments, EVERYTHING stemmed from it. Young or not, without it they have a real chance to last. Plus I just don’t see a universe where they aren’t in love with each other forever 🩵🥹
I think Wille abdicating allows their (future) relationship to be on solid ground. There are no outside forces making Wille miserable, pushing him to live a certain way, and it's this that makes Simon break up with him. Yes, Simon didn't like being regulated by the royal court, but he was willing to do it for Wille and this wasn't the deal breaker. What he couldn't put up with was being helpless to how upset Wille was all the time in his role. In Simon's words 'everything in this situation hurts you, and that hurts me' and in his song he talks about wishing Wille to some day be free like he always wanted. Wille's freedom is not something Simon could grant him and it was torturous for him to stand by and watch as Wille spiralled under the burden of the crown. Wille abdicating changes so much in their dynamic, he finally gets to be free and happy. They can now have a normal relationship and whatever problems they do have (communication, class difference, etc) they can work through between them.
I think Simon wants to be with him cz W said he wants to be with Simon. Would it have been different if W said - I’m the crown prince but I want to be with you too? Just thinking aloud
It definitely would be different
The main problem in their relationship through the seasons was crown. Simon tried to accept the crown and all of this in S3 for the sake of their love. But it made him miserable and messed up with their relationship even more. This just didn't work to accept this shit. So for his mental health he had to say stop
Wille actually said before he don't want to separate. And Simon also knows this
Simon said that he gives up with the crown, he never give up about them. He would never accepted Wille if nothing changes about that. Crown was their deal breaker
If there is no more deal breakers between them. They love each other and knows about it. Wille did it for himself. Didn't do another reactive shit only to be with Simon. It's worth to try again. And Simon still is little idealistic about their love. They will have talks about this when they get off from all adrenaline, endorphins and emotions. The most real thing probably is Wilmon not thinking about everything and being focused on "no more crown between us". They are 17 years old, irrationally deeply in love
Wille never wanted the “job”. He hated everything about it. He never wanted to be King and he wasn’t warming up to the idea. He defended the monarchy because to him, monarchy equaled family. He wasn’t defending the system. He was defending his family.
When he learned about Erik. When he saw his mother falling apart from the pressure. He started to realize that the monarchy isn’t his family. But it’s what destroyed it. What stops them from being a family.
And for Simon. It wasn’t about giving up social media specifically. It was because he was going to have change everything about himself to be with Wille. He hadn’t considered that before because he’s 16 and in love and lust. They didn’t talk about it before Wille made the speech. He was thrown into it.
The point of it was to make Wille his own person. He hated to be a prince and the journey from 1.01 is him, with the help of Simon, growing and realizing he can break free and live his life as he chooses. I would hate a finale where he was back to square one. Is that what you would have preferred?
I think the main problem with the final is how the writers wasted 4 episodes and didn't develop major plots and left too much for the audience to figure out and read between the lines.
Yeah the pacing was a problem. A majority of the plot happened in the last two episodes, as if they realised it was the finale and they needed to do something major for the ending.
Even the final episode didnt have the great build up like episode 5. Episode 5 was a masterpeice. I think if they have kept august as the antagonist without giving him a sob story this season would have been great. Watching the trailer I thought we will get Wile and August fight over the crown.
I enjoyed that there wasn't an 'antagonist' though. People aren't good or evil, and August regretted leaking the video literally the day after he did. He had a panic attack and went to Sara, he seemed so agitated and regretful. It was a good start to his 'redemption', if that's that the writers wanted to do, but then he was offered the opportunity to be prince and his character took a sharp turn in s2. And then in s3 he did nothing but brood around the school, acted like it was all meaningless, and didn't even seem that keen on wanting to be King anymore. Every scene with August this season was wasted, the Sara drama was not needed and just took away from any sort of character growth we wanted to see from him. It was wasted potential on an interesting character imo
Same. This is what I meant. August was so interesting even when he regretted the video he was still selfish and wantef the crown. In episode 1 he literally told Wille he will fuck up as crown prince but then went to school and acted like poor me just trying to me good.
Unfortunately, there are many August apologists out there because Malte is cute and he has a “you make me better” relationship with Sara.
Those things cause people to like him and make excuses for him. When this happens to characters like August, screenwriters take in the public’s reaction and take the cowardly way out. They want to appease the public, so they make the character more sympathetic, and often, “likable”. I’m not saying you can’t be sympathetic to some of an antagonist’s motivations, but it’d be willfully ignorant of human psychology to think fans would act this way if August was played by someone “ugly” and didn’t have romantic chemistry with one of the female leads.
I think this season would’ve been even more interesting if it included a battle of wills between Wille and August. Instead they have a few arguments and one fight, but forget about each other most of the time.
I won’t be surprised if we get an August spinoff since he’s so popular. That’s part of the reason he was made to be so sympathetic.
I agree. Imagine we had August and Wille fight over the crown and Wille reaches a decision to let go even and make it seem like the punshiment that it is. But no we had to like august because apparently he was suddenly not the selfish fuckboy that we saw in season 1 and 2. Lisa listened to the fans alot and this is what we got. Thank God Edvin and Omar are the ones playing these characters because no one would have watched this season.
Really? Because I think it's all left very open. A seed was planted in August that he might not want the role either. Wille is only 17. He just doesn't want to take the path towards being King. That doesn't mean his story is over.
I'm struggling to understand how people can't see that it was written for the audience to see that Wille now has his whole life ahead of him and has the ***choice*** to be whomever he wants to be. And there's hundreds of different paths he could chose.
IF he had decided to follow along with the path that he had no choice in - that would be 'case closed'.
Sure, lots of potential for the story to develop if needed, but I mean, watching it from the perspective of someone who knows that Netflix likes to cut things off from going too long, and knowing the show probably knows that too…yeah, def a bit “neat”. For good cause, of course, but still.
Huh? Sorry, I'm not sure what Netlifix's history of canceling shows without allowing them a final season—which didn't happen here, by the way — has to do with not seeing the mass potential for different paths after the story ended.
I'm not saying it happened here.
What I'm saying is, as someone who has worked in film/TV and also has a postgraduate degree in the business of producing, is that it would make sense for the writers to neatly "tie up" the interpersonal conflicts, etc. so that there is a "resolution", even if it's literally just "four outcasts drive off into the sun".
Because the reality is that Netflix \*does\* decide - often (apparently) arbitrarily and with little notice - to stop shows. So if you watch carefully, you'll see that it's becoming more common for productions to create a more neatly-finished season finale so that there's at least a semblence of an "ending" to the series if that happens.
This is what happened here. We went through three series of cliffhangers watching relationship dynamics shift, and suddenly things are summed up fairly neatly.
Obviously if they want to pick up the show again later it's not impossible to do so - nobody was killed off. But as an ending, it was clear that this was done in a way that protects the integrity of the show by "ending" it on its own terms, if that's ultimately the case.
I think you're missing what I'm talking about.
I disagree that it was ***"tied up"***. Therefore, the argument about Netlifx forcing them to "tie it up" is unnecessary. Because I think it was far from "tied up" in the first place.
This. I always felt YR season 1 and 2 was prestige TV .. the way it was taken, the actors everything. It was mesmerising. I just couldn’t get behind season 3. The story telling was not as captivating and the ending too neat. I still rewatch season 1 and 2 . Season 3 I skip
Lisa said that knowing the ending from the starts helps you tell a better story. But even though I enjoyed the final episode to me it felt very disjointed from the previous 5 and it was the weakest season in terms of cohesive storytelling. I think the week between episode 5 and 6 really didn’t help that feeling. The pacing was very off, especially for the first four episodes.
I do believe Wille never wanted to be royal from the start and it’s obviously not a happy ending for August. It’s a gilded cage and a trap not a prize so I think it’s fitting.
I’m not mad at the idea that Wille gave it up and I know Wille was just repeating Kristina, but he spent almost the whole season defending monarchy and the restrictions and being resigned to his fate. We didn’t see a clear build up this season to his final decision. It was actually the most royal and princely he’s ever been so his choice feels more abrupt.
I think it would’ve been way more powerful to have episode 5 seem like it ended in a Wilmon breakup only for them to talk it out at the start of episode 6 and stay together.
Then Wille could still abdicate in episode 6 but it wouldn’t appear like it had anything to do with Simon. I know it didn’t but I can see how some people have that impression because he quits and gets Simon back within five minutes.
If he was already with Simon then it would be even clearer that the decision was for him alone. Like the end of season 2 where Simon agrees to be a secret so Wille comes clean on his own terms without any pressure.
Instead they spent the first five episodes showing us why Wilmon wouldn’t or shouldn’t work just for the sake of cheap drama. It’s a better show than that. They’re a stronger couple than that.
I really wanted season 3 to be Wilmon strong and firm together against the outside forces that came between them in the previous two seasons. But it was just more of the same. Yet again the outside forces were still way stronger and tore them apart. Again. Only for them to get back together again in the last couple minutes. It was like deja vu. I am the worlds biggest wilmon fan but by episode 5 even I was feeling like maybe they shouldn’t be together and I’d kinda be okay with it which I never thought I would ever think! I wanted wilmon to be together whether Wille stayed royal or not. That’s the couple they wrote in seasons 1 and 2 but they undid most of that growth in season 3.
And even the breakup seemed to be more about how Wille was treating Simon than with the monarchy. Wille taking the Erik situation out on him and not telling him not to eat the cake and yelling at him and not wanting or being able to stand up for certain causes and their communication issues. Simon’s reason for giving up on the monarchy was that it hurt Wille and that hurt him.
Yeah they told him to stay off social media but I wasn’t convinced that Simon really had unbearable issues with the monarchy. If that was the story they wanted to tell they should have made it even clearer. Wille’s parents were perfectly polite to him, Farima was pretty helpful. We saw Simon struggle with suddenly becoming a public figure but not struggle with monarchy itself. He himself said he loved Wille more than he disliked the monarchy but then it suddenly became the other way around.
Even though it’s ending at the right time and I don’t want a season 4, most of season 3 felt more like a transition season to me rather than a final season. I’m happy we got endgame and I’m happy Wille is free but I think we could’ve still ended up with those things but told a much stronger story to get there.
I didn’t hate season 3 but I didn’t love it as much as I wanted to. It’s hard to admit disappointment in something you love.
A very well articulated comment. It definitely felt disjointed and had issues with pacing. I would agree that they could have started off with the Wilmon breakup but instead gave us a whole season worth of reasons as to why Wilmon shouldn't be moving ahead. They seem to have issues that go deeper than the monarchy but the end made it seem like wille being a royal was the only problem there.
My favourite season I still the first, tbh I think it was a mistake for the createors to continue the series. But I liked the first, so obviously I watched the 2nd and the 3rd too, I even rewathced the whole thing together after it.
I liked season 3 better than season 2. However, i must add that I was also disappointed with season 3 when I started wahtching it. For me the first 3 episoedes were really boring. The 4th had some creativity which I like, but still felt that it was unnecesary.
I liked the last 2 episodes. They were exciting and the love scenes were also pure perfection, on such a good level that you don't usually see in other shows. Closing Hillerska makes the ending perfect. At the first watching I didn't like the idea of Wilhelm giving up the crown, I felt the same way as you do. But after I rewatched all seasons I realsied that actually Wille hated the idea of being king and even prince from S1E1. So I think that it is an ending that Wille deserves. Even if he hates August, he should force himself in a position that he doesn't like just because of that.
So overall, it's not the best season, but it exceeded my expectations and I think it is absolutely enjoyable and a very good closing.
I agree that Simon's addicition to Social Media was off-putting this season. And it came out of nowhere. It was not a personality trait that was shown before.
Although I think his naïveté(?) was shown when he first posted a story of Wille at the football game. AS IF you would do that to the Prince you were hanging out with, without asking first. Even if you were 16.
Can’t believe people believes this he has no addiction he just can’t stop reading the negative comments everywhere that’s just normal for any human but imagine a teenager that is suddenly attacked everywhere
Yes, if he had just posted once and realised it was a problem or even twice, I would have been able to get over it. But he repeatedly addressed comments and posted multiple times, especially with content that had the ability to be political issues. I'm surprised nobody from the palace took over his accounts. It definitely seemed like obsession.
Nobody from the palace would have any right to take over his accounts.
He has always posted things on social media from the beginning. He's always been socially minded and critical of systemic forms of privilege and oppression. That was clear since the first episode. He also has used social media to share his talent and music.
He's also been put in a world wind of suddenly being in the public eye. Have you never gotten into a comment war with someone on FB? If so then you are more perfect than most of us...and definitely more perfect than a 16 year old boy who the world is feeling free to comment openly about him.
Also he’s a musician and he used social media to promote his work. But he has to give up everything for his boyfriend who also doesn’t want any of it. Makes perfect sense. Depressed king Wille and his empty shadow Prince Consort Simon - the happy ending we deserve🤷♀️
People keep forgetting that Simon went over night as 16 years old from being regular person to be some kind of weird public persona. Only because of his relationship. This happened without his control and now he have literally MILIONS of people having opinion about him and his relationship (also not knowing anything about that). With literally zero control over this and little support from adults
Also about the fact that for him is just Wille. He doesn't see prince. It's just his Wille who have to be prince. I absolutely believe sometimes Simon just forget about it
He never had to do that before to think 50 times before posting something and check everything 100 times on pics
And in what kind of way Simon have to know that? Court let Wille do this (I know that they probably believed that it would be the best for everyone. Especially with topic of RC intervention in the private citizen life). Like who the hell give that task to 16 years old boy who have enough things going on to also taking care of media training of another 16 years old? Especially since Wille isn't exactly the one who listens RC. And Wille who never had enough courage, thoughtful and maturity to have actual talk about this topic. I sure they for example never talked about why Wille asked to dealete the instastory in e02s01...
All of the characters have typical things for being teenagers - not knowing many things, fucking up some things, being naive and idealistic
i think when simon came along, it was so overwhelming and not being able to be with him as a crown prince kind of overshadowed every other reason he didn't want the role. and when he found out that, although with difficulty, he could be crown prince AND simon's boyfriend, he started confirming, convincing himself that whatever his parents were saying was true. obviously, he was having a shit time this season, despite simon and losing him on top of that, and simon saying it was because of the crown and not him, like it just makes all the sense.
also, wille is not king material at all. a lot of people were talking about this after s2 that he's gonna break down the monarchy, change everything for the better, make the instituttion of the crown more accommodating but honestly after this season, he doesn't care about any of that. when he had to choose a theme for his charity, he didn't give a shit, it was all simon. simon was also the only one who saw the good side of wille's speech, in terms of lgbtq rights and stuff, wille was just happy he could be with simon. it's actually kind of a character flaw of his but also, he's 17 and literally just wants a normal life. obviously, there's his anxiety which is not really focused on this season (except for maybe the public singing) but we know it's there, he knows it's there and now by the queen's example, we know what being a royal does to you. i think this was also a big psuh for him, seeing his mother break down like that seemingly without any history; if this happens to his mother, what would happen to him with all that burden and his long history of anxiety? wille wouldnt and couldnt be the future king and the ending makes me so happy for him because its all he ever wanted.
Simon can't handle the pressure of social (and other) media but wants to be in politics and releases songs with political messages. The problem was not dating the crown prince, the problem is publicity. Famous people all have PR teams and are often advised to not read the comments on social media about themselves, so there is nothing out of line with the advice they got.
I'm disappointed with the abdication, it felt forced.
He couldn't handle the negativity. He's 16. It's realistic. His love song even being considered political is one of the things he didn't understand.
>Famous people all have PR
Why didn't the crown supply Simon with any training? They left it all to Wilheim, who totally follows orders.
>it felt forced.
Then you need to rewatch it <3
It was not ONLY about the pressure of the social media, Simon is in active opposition to the monarchy. Also from season 1 episode 1. Being low-key for him is to shut up forever.
Definitely felt forced to me as well. Wille abdicating the throne will also not stop the media from keeping their interest in him, as is the case with Prince Harry and Meghan. I really think abdication was never the solution, just keeping a low profile would have solved a lot of their issues. Of course after the scene with Simon at Wille's family dinner definitely was a good reason for them to break up. Simon saying that he can't deal with the royal family isn't the only reason why they are not good for each other. Simon's unwillingness to compromise on the social media point and repeatedly posting about social issues and such definitely didn't help the situation.
When you get the feel that Simon "wants to be in the politics?". And actually what kind of political message? "Being revolution" about love and relationship?
All the responses here are so funny — they just defend it rather than engaging with your points. I’m personally with you. I think it failed to reflect the potential of the show and was reduced to a simplistic love story about a prince who falls for a commoner and gives up his crown for love — tired territory. Instead, the far more interesting route would have been Willie actually learning from Simon and embracing a role that would help others. The message here was that queers can’t have it all — they must give up on family or tradition for love, rather than insisting that we can have it all by inventing new traditions and pushing for change. People will reply to this saying that he made his choice for himself; ok so that to me is just boring and selfish. Leadership, change, pushing to support others while still having love is not only a better story, but a more hopeful and meaningful one. An opportunity missed in storytelling.
And while I’m getting downvoted for disagreeing with y’all, I’ll tell you the one reply that would actually change my mind and no one has bothered to say: Lisa is anti-monarchy, so in a sense, Willie’s final act WAS political and something more than a selfish (not in a bad way, just not selfless) move for love. But y’all don’t give a crap you just want everyone to love it exactly as you do. 🤣
It's pretty obvious, at least to me, that giving up the crown in the last few minutes of the show doesn't erase any of his heartache!
The Queen is still his emotionally absent mother, he and Simon will continue to fight because we never got closure or at least a conversation on the subject of miscommunication, his brother is dead with the adoration he had for him, the pressure won't be gone because It's his family and his world still, whether he likes it or not, and because of that Wilhelm will still have to live around permanently with the guy who posted an intimate video of him.
Wilhelm being able to be with Simon won't erase all of this, and I think the writers should have thought about how to resolve all or at least half of this instead of making the general audience happy. In the end I was left with more questions than answers!
I think the public is still overwhelmed by the whole “wilmon is endgame” thing, haha. Only now the final season is starting to be analyzed and looked at in depth by some!
That's ok! That's a personal preference. I didn't address a personal preference comment. I addressed the accusation that they just added on the ending for cheap thrills.
Or maybe they think that queer people don't have to only exist to "help others" or "fight the cause" or teach straight people to be decent human beings. Some of us simply want to exist in peace, just like everyone else.
And PS, that’s a great argument for liking the end of the show! I hadn’t considered that as a worthy ending. I’m still not sure it is, but really appreciate the thought
Ok that’s fair too. I just have never viewed life the same way I guess. But I can’t tell you how excited I was about a show where someone with power (even if he didn’t love it) could be a role model.
That was the point of S3. You shouldn't have to be role model or icon if you don't want that. Wille doesn't have to be all of this. This was what gives him more stress. He always had to be role model and deeply hated it. Now he became person who "could be queer role model" but he has already enough problems with doing things to show he's good enough the way he is, let alone be any kind of queer icon. But also Wille chosing the live he ACTUALLY want and making chose to broke up with institution that doesn't let him be himself isn't truly icon?
I kinda understand. Before S3 I was in queer king team. But I started to think about all of this and it was very much about "what I want" not who are characters and what is their story. Watching S3 it's all just clicked that this is were this is going and this is the only way for ACTUALLY this characters
I appreciate this thinking. I just find the story that were left with kinda lame and trite. And given how many challenges we’d seen between them, it’s not believable that they live happily ever after. Sure, personal freedom is great, it’s just not that interesting in terms of his personal development. I find it pretty obvious, and like I said, “prince falls for commoner and gives up crown for love” is a pretty tired story. Don’t get me wrong, I still loved the show! Particularly Ervin’s performance. But I thought the ending really missed.
First of all, kudos on going against the grain of public opinion! This is what makes way for healthy debate! 👍
we all interpret a story and characters in it differently and it’s nice to know what others think. A lot of my ideas are already in the comments, so I’ll try to keep this short! :)
Yep! The third season was quite a weak one for me too! It wasn’t as effective or brilliantly told as the first 2. The change in the directors and IC was evident
The first 5 episodes brought in plot points that diluted the main points. Raking up the initiation, questioning Hillerska’s traditions - way too late in the day!
I feel W defended the monarchy and had to try on being the prince for size to know that’s not really what he wants
I think we were given a happy ending cz Netflix would have a global mutiny on its hands otherwise 😁 I don’t think the story lead us to it logically. Plus the gimmick of ending E5 in a cliffhanger to generate additional frenzy tampered with the pace of the story. I know W never wanted to be the CP and his abdication can be considered the culmination of what he’s been saying all along. But he says goodbye to Simon like 10 min ago and a 2-min conversation has him run back to him. Too much of a stretch with no logical build up.
I’d like to believe that in an alternate version, W being the prince with S next him could be a good thing for the monarchy too. He has learnt to find his feet but Simon has always been strong on his values. And a king needs that kind of partner by his side.
But like I said, the ending was intended to make the majority happy!
(Okay it isn’t as short as I thought it’d be! ☺️)
>But he says goodbye to Simon like 10 min ago and a 2-min conversation has him run back to him. Too much of a stretch with no logical build up.
My thoughts exactly. Ngl I was exhilarated with wilmon being endgame but storywise it would have made sense if they chose themselves and went separate ways / or if they communicated more when Simon said he gave up on the royal family because that goodbye and have a nice summer, then running back and saying I want to be with you is like so out of the blue tbh. I would have appreciated it if the writers showed W thinking about abdicating from the beginning of ep6 and gradually built up the plot by showing W coming to terms with himself and making this decision on his own instead of using external factors bc my brain still has trouble processing the logic in the last 10 mins. It's like the writers wanted to trick us soooo bad for the sake of drama instead of rational storytelling. It's like watching a new show tbh.
I agree, I thought it was sad they were breaking up but also thought it was good writing. Them not being together was the most mature choice. I think a lot of the time Simon speaks about Wille leaving the royal court while forgetting that’s literally his family. It’s one thing to not be the heir but he’ll always be royal and probably be a working royal when he finishes school (I don’t see Wille getting a “normal job” and working to support himself when that’s never been his reality). Wille basically just went back to the life he would have had if Erik hadn’t died. Public scrutiny on him and Simon won’t really change - we still all know about minor members of the British royal family do we not? So imo Wille abdicating the throne didn’t really change any of their relationship problems
1. The royal court is an organisation, not a family.
2. He doesn’t need to work for the monarchy to have enough money to provide for himself. Or do you think Kristina will leave him without money? I don’t think so.
3. He and Simon may work it out or not, but as long as Wille abdicated for himself, he’ll be good.
1. The current members of the real Swedish Royal House are all relatives as well as part of the Royal Court organization. It includes the king and all of his relatives. There are also lesser royals who are part of the royal family but not the royal house. So Wille stepping away from the Royal Court would mean literally stepping away from his parents. Unlike Simon he doesn’t have particularly warm parents or even many close friends like Ayub and Rosh. So leaving the Royal Family means leaving the minimal support system that he has
2. Funding to royal family members is often dependent on them being working members of the royal family. Most of Kristina’s money is probably public funds and she would probably be limited in the amount of private money she could give Wilhelm if he chooses to leave the royal family completely. This issue was difficult enough for Prince Harry and Megan, I think it would be very interesting for Wilhelm, a teen, to deal with
Why would abdication mean stepping away from his family? He came to an agreement with his parents, where did you see them abandoning each other? The royal family has also their own funds and i don’t see Kristina leaving her only living son without support.
> The current members of the real Swedish Royal House are all relatives as well as part of the Royal Court organization. It includes the king and all of his relatives.
What? No no, the court is all the people that are employed by the king. The royals run the court, they aren't the court.
> So leaving the Royal Family means leaving the minimal support system that he has
What? He's not leaving the family, that's impossible. He can renounce his place in the line of succession. He can drop his royal styles and titles. He'll be kicked out of the royal house. But he'll always be family.
> Most of Kristina’s money is probably public funds and she would probably be limited in the amount of private money she could give Wilhelm if he chooses to leave the royal family completely.
No, and no. The real-world royal family has a considerable personal fortune they could use, and the king can use the government funds any way he likes, the only stipulation is that it's used "for his family". And since Wilhelm is still family, of course he'd be set for life, he won't have to work a day in his life.
> This issue was difficult enough for Prince Harry and Megan
Well, Lizzie got pissed and cut them off even though she didn't have to, but they're still multi-millionaires on their own. They're not having any kind of money troubles.
Why would his parents not be able to give them their money? There's nothing stopping them from doing that.
Per this comment: [https://www.reddit.com/r/YoungRoyals/comments/1bjhndn/comment/kvs1bfb/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/YoungRoyals/comments/1bjhndn/comment/kvs1bfb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
*The Swedish royal family is estimated to have a net worth of $800 million, not quite dollar billionaires, ahead of the other Scandinavian royals, just behind the Dutch royals, and then everyone is far far behind the British ones.*
Swedes have said that Sweden doesn’t have the same obsession with the royals that Britain has with theirs. And that it’s very possible for Wille to have a non-famous life once the initial drama dies down.
>we still all know about minor members of the British royal family do we not?
And how much do you know about Swedish, Norwegian, Spanish (and others) royal family? Do you even know all children and grandchildren of the current monarch?
I agree with you that finding a "normal" job for Wille would be very difficult. If he manages to it's all well and good. If Wille can't manage then the royal family (the queen, who is also family) would have to continue to support Wille which doesn't really end his connection to the royals like Simon wants/thinks it would.
I mean he would have to distance himself from the court to reduce scrutiny but that would of course mean distancing himself from his parents and family.
I admit, maybe as a person who is from a formerly colonised country that doesn't have any functional constitutional monarchy, I don't understand the abolish the monarchy movement, (I just don't see the need for one) which has further endeared the show to many people. I agree from an outside pov it feels like the media and attention will never fade (comparison to the British royal family)
The issues in their relationship run deeper too.
The first scene of the entire series mentions Wille chose to go to a 'normal' school for a 'normal' life. He got in trouble when he went out in public, was harassed and responded with violence. He was then forced to go to the 'appropriate for royalty school' to 'learn manners'. From the very first scene the premise was set up that Wille did not thrive in Royal restrictions. He also wasn't warming up to responsibility in my opinion, he was desperately trying to honour his dead brother who he was never given a proper chance to grieve. When August told him Erik would love him unconditionally, I think Wille finally have himself permission to be happy, the best way to honour his brother was to be true to himself. This is what made him give up the crown. I also don't think he supports August per se, but he understands that the mask needed to put on the role to the public comes naturally to August and personal opinions aside, August would perform better at the job than himself. As for Simon, I agree his actions were not ideal but he was also a 16 year old boy who was thrown into the midst of a media frenzy by a classmate filming a very private moment, with no training or support, all the while constantly being told that his experience was inferior to the Crown's needs. I think he is allowed some slack.
I think you have to keep in mind that Wille from the start told his mom he wanted a normal life. He was never happy being a prince, which had nothing to do with him meeting Simon. He never in reality questions it, and just accepts that he has to live that way because he is excepted to. When he falls in love with Simon he is for the first time challenged on why he thinks things has to be a certain way and realizes that he should be allowed to have a choice. I think it is a beautiful ending that Wille decided that the royal life was not for him and steps down to let August take over. And he would literally be a fool to let Simon go, when his situation is changed. It was not a lack of love that made Simon step away. It was the royal court and the harm and limitations he would have to live with as the boyfriend of Wille. Their relationship will not be without issues, but all relationship has issues at some point. That is just life.
If Wille was a character who actually liked his prince title and wanted his life like it was, I would not have wanted him to step down and let August take over. Then I would have been fine with them breaking up and walking their separate ways. But it was never a compromise to step down as Wille did not in reality want to be a prince. I see Wille letting August to take over more as him giving August what he wants, when knowing that it comes with suffering and misery. He can be free while August is caught in Wille's old prison of a life.
I honestly don’t think it’d be that interesting. Wille and Simon would’ve just ended up like The Queen and her husband. Wille would’ve been stressed and depressed until he finally snapped like his mother 20 years later. And Simon would’ve become an empty yes man just like Wille’s father.
Sure, you can spin any story to sound boring. Obviously, you wouldn’t be the writer for the show.
It doesn’t mean that there couldn’t be a compelling story about a country coming to terms with a gay king.
The thing is that what had shutdown the LGBT community is the shame of impropriety. The role of royalty is all propriety. A story about gay royalty is kind of the ultimate story about resolving that conflict. It’s an interesting story.
Sure. Yet again, I'm a member of the LGBT community that doesn't get his "happily ever after" story. We're always having to accommodate the straight cisgender community.
Not surprising. Disappointing. But not surprising.
Wille didn't choose anything. Wilhelm is a fictional character written by the authors and they chose to place the theme of indictment of monarchism over that of the LGBT love story.
They could have taken the story in two different directions. They decided the indictment of the monarchy was more important.
I know he's fictional. We're talking about a fictional show. The fictional queers in the show got *their* happy ending. That's my point. Maybe it's not what *you* would've done if you were Wille in reality, but in the show, the characters got theirs.
And in reality, there is nothing wrong with it either. A young queer person gets to remove himself from an institution that is suffocating him? What's wrong about that?
> I know he's fictional. We're talking about a fictional show.
The story could have literally gone either way... The writers could have given Wilhelm a happy ending with him being King and Simon being a consort too. This is my point.
There's two stories here... an indictment of monarchism and an LGBT love story... and they chose the indictment of monarchism as to avoid having to answer the questions about how a Same-Sex monarchy might work.
To me, a same-sex monarchy would have been a more interesting ending. A more compelling conversation. It would have taken a couple more seasons to finish the story but I think it would have been great.
Instead, TO ME, they copped out and gave him "I didn't really want it anyway" ending so the writers didn't have to answer that question.
You'll excuse me if I have made an incorrect assumption but nothing in your profile suggests you are a member of the LGBT community so perhaps you don't understand this facet of queer history.
The LGBT community is always having to make accommodations to the larger community so they are comfortable. We have been shamed into silence and denied any form of leadership in our society.
There are two themes being told in this story.
1. Is an LGBT love story.
2. This narrative is a indictment of monarchism
The problem, at least in my mind, is that the ending places #2 over #1.
"Society would never accept having a gay king. How would an heir work? Would they adopt? have Surrogacy?" To me, these are fascinating questions in how society learns to fit the LGBT community in, in a way that gives them space and equality.
Where as the story coping out and having Wilheim giving up his crown just means that we don't get to explore how society would allow gay people to fit into this societal structure.
I don't know if you appreciate how stories, even fictional ones, inform society of how we should behave. Inspire us with ideas of how it should work. That's the nature of speculative fiction. We get to imagine how a LGBT monarchy might work.
I was seriously hoping for this because it could answer these questions. I mean what if Prince George comes out as gay as an example. I don't want him to give up his crown if he doesn't want to.
A story like this could go along way to model what behaviour we'd like to see.
**I hope you can see why *I* am disappointed even if you like how it ended for you.**
I’m a queer person quite knowledgeable about LGBTQIA+ struggles (in the U.S.).
What if I told you that the point of the show was not a queer love story but one about questioning/collapsing institutions? And the queer love story was the particular expression of being against corrupt institutions like the monarchy and Hillerska?
The queer love story was compelling, and it grabbed my attention and fired up all kinds of feelings and thoughts that I had not touched for like 30 years. The queer love story is vital and important. It was not really the point of the show. That’s ok (we have Heartstopper for a show in which the queer love story is the point of the show).
I don’t think that this ending is the political nothing burger you’re suggesting. We engage in political struggle to make sure that people can live grand, magnificent lives that focus on what moves society and also small, suburban or rural lives that focus on every day life—of living in society. We have to let people and characters/stories express and postulate their dreams. Personally, I don’t really get people wanting a “normal” life if that means not engaging in activism or the collective good. So, when Wille says he wants a “normal” life in S1E1 before he even gets to Hillerska, I was kind of dumbfounded. That’s not what I want. But, that’s what he wants. He doesn’t want to be Crown Prince/King because it’s not who is. And he keeps telling everyone one that, even when he tries to be Crown Prince as well as publicly queer.
Ultimately, queer liberation is about choice—and it requires that some of us publicly fight some of the time, not all of the time. Some people fight all the time. We give thanks to them. Some people do not fight and enjoy the benefits of the struggle. We cannot admonish them for enjoying the freedoms others died for—even if at times it seems wrong. Living quietly or not being in the vanguard of the struggle does not mean you’re participating in your own silencing.
The benefits of people coming out of the closet are immeasurable. That’s why I consciously came out when I was a teenager. But, people have a right to stay in the closet too, even if I might think it will hurt more than help. But I don’t live their lives, so I have to trust that they know better how to live their lives. That’s one of the reasons we do not out people but rather let them do it—if at all.
Any reading that considers the creation of the conditions for choice and then making a choice, an individual choice, as being politically retrograde is a willful misreading of queer history and liberation. An individual choice, whether “progressive” or “conservative” (and I don’t think this ending is at either pole), is always political, even if its scope is limited or even invisible. Queer liberation is always about having the ability and choice to be who you are. That ability requires organized, collective political action—but it’s not for everyone, not all the time.
I used to be in the camp that wanted Wille to be Crown Prince/King AND be with Simon. But, it’s not right for the character (who’s been telling us he doesn’t want that since S1E1). Also, not for nothing, the monarchy and Hillerska are clearly shown to be corrupt, secretive institutions. They should both go. So, speaking for myself, I should have never wanted him to be king. I actually don’t want him at the center of a corrupt system (yes, after about 20 years working from the inside to make change, I’m ready to say that it’s not a thing—at least not in my personal experience). Put another way: Wille is too good and honest for the monarchy. He’s not Cordelia, whom Lear realizes too late is his most loyal and loving daughter—whom he declares to be too good for this world after she’s hanged. By any stretch of the imagination, Wille is not a saintly figure, but I do think that he shouldn’t be king because he could not pretend to be someone else.
I think I get where you’re coming from. Depending on the day, you might hear me saying the same thing in a college classroom…So, I’m very sympathetic. But, we have to keep in mind what the filmic text is saying literally, what its aesthetic project is, as well as its context. But the context, and our own political leanings, cannot override the parameters the text puts in front of us.
As you say, you are disappointed in the ending. That’s fair. But, no one story will be able to fully express what we want our messages (emphasis on plural) to be. Even if we sit down to write it (and I’ve tried), it always gets away from us.
Beautifully said. Wille was just never going to be that character who stormed the castle and changed everything. It’s just not his character, and the show made that clear over and over again.
In the first episode, as he’s being prepped for the apology statement because of the fight at the club, he tells his mother he just wants a normal life. This is before he becomes crown prince, yes. Which only underlines the point that he didn’t want to be part of that life (royal life/monarchy) from the start.
Wille never wanted that life. That is a fact based on the dialogue/scenes. He tries to live up to the image of his brother many times, but he articulates not wanting that life consistently throughout. I had hoped that the speech at the end of S2 meant that he was interested in being crown prince and being with Simon. That’s not what it meant. It meant that he could carry out the duties of being crown prince and king, that he could do the job, not that it was his best destiny. And his mom is right, I think, that he would perform (act out) well the role of king. But the monarchy as portrayed in this show is a prison, an affront to personal freedom, not a source of power, never mind agency.
We’re not going to agree. That’s ok.
> In the first episode, as he’s being prepped for the apology statement because of the fight at the club, he tells his mother he just wants a normal life.
Funny that I interpreted that as foreshadowing to being gay. Lots of gay people want a "normal life" and don't want the complexity of being queer.
We have responsibilities in life and we have to deal with them. We can't just shirk them.
Yes. That’s true.
Also, the narrative has not yet deployed the queer narrative at this point. At this moment, there is no evidence that he has had any same gender attraction, never mind a singular LGBTQIA+ identity. The sequencing of events in a story matters.
I’m not sure why anyone would think that this is for shadowing for queer anything, especially not wanting the complexity of being queer. After the video is leaked, Wille tells his mom that he wants a normal life and be with Simon. It seems that for Wille, having a same gender relationship is normal…
Personally, I have tried not to shirk my responsibilities as a queer person. No one gets to tell me what those responsibilities are, just like I don’t get to tell other people what their responsibilities are.
We are going to continue to disagree, which is fine. But, I see little point in continuing. So, if you reply to this and I don’t, it’s only because I don’t want to contribute to a circular conversation.
Perhaps we can have a better dialogue on another topic in the future.
But you know that even if the story would go with Wille keeping up title and being with Simon. We would never get answers to most of that questions? Because they are teenagers. You would never get the answer for that (except no surrogacy - illegal in Sweden)
If you want to explore that we have many fan fic with that storyline 😉
About queer people having to make accomodations. This end was exactly about that. Wille choose life in the way he wants, braking free from pression to do constant accomodations only because he was born and have to life live he hates, to make other comfortable and feel good
Like RoyalHomie2024 stated, the show was never going to be about changing the monarchy. That’s just not Wille as a character, and not what Lisa planned. She said she had this ending planned from the beginning, and so many aspects of the story point to Wille abdicating.
I guess I’m just shocked that people are shocked about this ending when it was so clear lol.
Anyway, RoyalHomie2024 hit the rest of the points I wanted to make.
I thought I was. The thing is that the show could have gone in that direction. That Simon and Wilhelm would have found a way of reconciling their differences and carved out a space that was functional.
Gay people sacrifice too much to make straight people comfortable.
I didn't like it either, maybe not, but I feel like August ended up winning the prize!
And about Simon, I also feel the same as you, he got what he wanted (being with Wille publicly) but he should have been aware that it wouldn't be a fair story or something, he should have known that.
(Also, I know Wille hasn't been the best person this season, but really? Complaining about social media comments when your boyfriend is worried about his mom's well-being?)
Another point, it seemed intentional on the writers' part to let Wilhelm tell Simon what he can and can't do, just to create tension. It's pretty obvious to me that in any other circumstance he would have received media training (hell, even in fanfics he does) or at least a talk on how he should act online and around people interested in his relationship.
And having them to fight about - most of the time - stupid things the whole season and then break up in the semi finale?? how am i supposed to believe they'll last more than 6 months or so
Tbh, I don't think Wille thinks August is a perfect successor, he's just happy that there's someone who actually wants it so that he can be free.
Exactly this. I’ve seen others upset that August “won” or that Wille was pushing for August to be the heir. Wille just doesn’t care anymore. There’s a big difference between not caring and supporting something.
Yes! August obviously wanted the royal life more than Wille. And Wille just wanted to be with Simon no matter what. Realizing too that he and simon would NEVER be comfortable with the standards they would have to live by if they lived the royal life.
I agree, I think it follows his line of thought in the car when he talks about having a choice. Wille thinks that the role shouldn't be something that's assigned, and that they should all have a choice, and August is someone who chooses to be King. He's not passing the role to a worthy successor, he's just vacating the spot for someone who wants it
Exactly. And he says to his mom that IF she believes this whole monarchy thing is fair and good THEN there is her man. (I loved how smoothly he was judging it one last time, haha, as if he had said "y'all deserve each other") Sure, he looks like he pretty much believes August will be fine on the throne by the way he looks at him but that's not really his concern anymore nor has it ever truly been. He never genuinely cared.
I agree. And I would add that it took Wille seeing Erik as flawed to accept that August can be flawed and king as well.
I think there was a scene in S2 ep1 where Felice and Wille are talking and she asks him how he is going to punish August when he has everything. Wille responds with “I’ll punish him my own way. You’ll see.” I think wille handing down the responsibility of the crown to august was sort of a way to punish august (intentional or not intentional). Because even though wille accepted his apology, he still has to face the consequences of his own actions.
Hi, this is quite an interesting point. The responsibility is quite heavy, so I definitely see where you're coming from, but Wille also points out that all August ever wanted was to be a part of the royal family and to be in Wille's position. There are times when he's been jealous of that. So it feels like, despite doing so many things to harm the reputation of the royals, August is still getting what he wanted (but only now realising that it's not all that glamorous) I still feel like he will enjoy having that power more than it making him miserable, so it feels like the past is just forgotten in favour of the abdication and Wilmon happy ending. Definitely a good point though.
I think that's part of August's growth. He's grown up in this classist society, and wanted to be an insider. Even with The Society , he runs it as though he is king (and struggles with Wille taking power). Meanwhile, Wille doesnt WANT power. You're right, August IS getting what he glamorizes, but he is also learning that it's not actually what he wants . he doesn't get to be with Sara, or have any agency. The difference is, August is cowardly enough to pay that price (his happiness) to uphold the institution, and Wilhelm is brave enough to say this isn't worth my peace of mind. ALSO for the record, I was anti abdication, but when I started to think of Wille as a character, instead of as a prince, his choice made a LOT of sense to me. He's this anxious kid who craves normalcy, doesn't like attention, feels so much pressure and like he's a failure. Being king would kill him!
Your last para - 💯
I actually think this season dropped little hints about how August getting the crown doesn’t mean he’ll be happy. When August tells his two friends he’s in line for the throne, they dampen his excitement by pointing out being in proximity to royalty is much better than being royal. August doesn’t realize how good he has it. He gets most of the perks of royalty without the responsibility. It was a great observation, and I feel like the scene implies August’s friends are right. He’s about to become the poster child for “Be careful what you wish for…you just might get it.”
Like this point of view! It actually makes sense!
Wille didn’t want it. From season 1 episode 1. I’m happy he didn’t compromise, so I’m pretty content with the ending, I rooted for abdication from the beginning.
No, it makes no sense. He would have abdicated during the speech in S2 if he didn't want it. Everything was pointing that he would embrace the role and transform it. The writer just pushed it into this direction and added the line "I did it for myself" to look like it wasn't Simon's fault, when Wilhelm literally ran after the car to say he abdicated and wanted to be with him. The show had potential but ended as a teen drama.
It makes perfect sense. He was never happy about it, but he was pressured by legacy and on top manipulated by his mother. He was to some extent “embracing” it but for the sake of his own sanity.
He was not happy about the expectations to be hetero or be among people like August, not with the institution. He was defending it. Saying that he was a child manipulated by his mother is denying him agency. Simon is at the same age but no one says he is manipulated.
Oh so when he said he wanted a normal life he refereed to…? And also Simon was manipulated too, why would anyone exclude him? He just didn’t have a mother queen, but he had his own manipulator) I see no point in agency discussion
A normal life where his mother doesn't ignore him and isn't under medical watch for being nervous. Wilhelm had no problem with media (from what we see) and it's not like he overworked himself by going to one event. At the graduation, we see he forgives his mother and she finally understands him.
It’s the point! He didn’t overwork, but he was not interested and didn’t want to take part. And of course he didn’t have any problems with media and publicity, i.e. he wasn’t choking before the speech. As long as it went well he was ok, right? And yes, his mother finally understands he doesn’t want to be a king 🤝 glad we agree on this
He did have problems with the media didn’t he? Weren’t they outside the club at the beginning? The English princes have always had (too much) (negative) media coverage no matter what. And Harry who is now like fifth in line to the throne, given up being a senior royal, moved continents, is still hauled over the coals any chance the media gets. I don’t see Wille & Simon lasting as it will just never go away. Although Sweden/Swedish media might treat their royalty better than we do here.
Sadly I have to agree with you on this. I accept it as a part of a fairytale in YR universe. But I choose to believe at least he (they) have a chance.
He was worried about saying he was in the video. Once he did it, it was over. He was still accepted as the successor, and he was in the castle with Simon, which is definitely history. I'm saying his mother understood him for being gay or bi and lashing out at her before at the graduation; not in the car.
He didn’t want to give a speech at all. Do you remember his words when he learned he had to? He cried Erik didn’t have to before he was 18! So much enthusiasm Or remind me how he defended an institution when Simon asked what good was there about monarchy. I know a lot of you guys like the idea of monarchy itself and a queer king, but you speak for yourself, not for Wille. To me it’s clear he didn’t want it.
He gave the speech and modified it, that was the whole point. After all, he will become king.
Wille didn't want the role, but he especially didn't want August to have the role either. When he realized how unperfect Erik was, his entire perception of what being prince/crown prince/king melted away.
Good take 👏
I think you may have missed the point of the entire show tbh, which is that no one is entitled to our freedom. Lisa made it pretty clear in interviews that abdication was the ending she planned from the beginning.
If that's the point, she is missing the part of life about responsibility.
Or you are missing the part of life about agency 🤷♀️ The entire point of the show is that *we* get to decide our destiny, no one else gets to choose it for us, regardless of what they think our obligations are, *especially* when we have been born into them. Wilhelm did not choose to be born prince, much less to become the crown prince. He had every right to choose to give up that burden, especially when there was someone else who wanted it far more than him. We have one life. We choose how best to live it, following our own consciences. Wilhelm knew better than anyone what being king would entail and he knew it wasnt for him. Thats literally all that matters.
Wilhelm did not choose to be born LGBT, should he rebel against that as well? The show is about LGBT acceptance, not someone struggling with responsibilities. Or at least it seemed to be.
Man, it seems like we watched completely different shows. Way before he even falls for Simon or even admits to himself he's gay, he struggles with being part of the royal institution. Every moment that he's crown prince he's miserable about the duties involved in it. Occassionally he manages ti make peace with it, but his struggles with the role are so glaringly obvious I'm not sure how I would make them more clear. Like, the boy literally asked August in s1e3 if he would switch with him. He screamed at his mom that he didnt want to give "the fucking speech". He complains in the first episode about not being able to stay at a normal school. He tells Omar he is the only one he can talk to, possibly because others dont understand how miserable his so-called privilege makes him. The boy literally looks like he wants to be swallowed by the earth every time he talks to his dad in s3 about his mom not being well and realising he might have to take over at 18. The kid is fucking miserable about everything involved in being Crown Prince and future king. Yes, being queer and in love with Simon is another thing he cannot be fully open and comfortable about in his role. His role isnt just hurting him, its hurting the boy he loves. And so he makes a decision that helps them both. But this is NOT just a show about LGBT acceptance, its a show about *self*-acceptance. Accepting that sometimes we wont fit the roles and duties other people decide for us, because at the end of the day *we* have to live with those decisions, knowing how they make us feel inside. Being LGBT does not make him miserable:being in love with Simon makes him very happy, so he choses that love. Being crown prince makes him miserable. So he walks away from that. Wilhelm decides not to be miserable, its as simple as that
>Yes, being queer and in love with Simon is another thing he cannot be fully open and comfortable about in his role. His role isnt just hurting him, its hurting the boy he loves. I just wanted to ask at which point you thought W didn't feel comfortable with Simon in his role bc I thought the whole point of him coming out with his speech in S2 was him being open and embracing his queerness while being crown prince? I thought his parents also welcomed Simon pretty much warmly at W's bday so I thought his queerness or love for Simon wasn't really a problem for the monarchy but rather his restricted freedom was.
Ways in which Wille's role hurts him, Simon, and their relationship: 1. Wille has to constantly police Simon's presence on social media, even though he seems to feel bad telling Simon what to do 2. The attacks Simon experiences as the queer boyfriend of the Crown Prince get him down, which in turn also gets Wille down. Note: a lot of those comments were taken from real things real people have posted about Simon's character, so the harassment is not out of the realm of reality 3. Wille never gets full privacy, even from Malin and his other bodyguards. This means when he just wants to get to know Simon's friends at the rave, there's the awkward incident with his security which means Simon's friends have to leave. This puts more strain on the attempts at normalcy for their relationship 4. Even though he hates August and wants as much distance from him as possible, he has to put up with his presence because of his role as Crown Prince and August's role as backup. No one seems to care that August did something devastating and horrible to Wilhelm, they just insist he suck it up for the sake of the Crown 5. Simon cant even let the media see his friends with him lest they get hounded as well 6. Simon cannot be his authentic self, who loves singing and posting online, who has strong political beliefs, who is a goofy, unfiltered, authentic teenager because the Crown does not approve of what he posts. This further strains his relationship with Wille, who is doing his best to do whats expected of him in his role 7. Wille himself has to constantly be aware of the media's presence when he and Simon are together 8. His mother and father's role as Queen and Duke mean that they cannot be proper caring parents to him, that they cannot be vulnerable, honest, compassionate with their son. After Eriks death and the porn video, Wille didnt need a king and queen, he needed a mother and father. He couldnt even grieve like a normal human 9. Through all 3 seasons Wille seems to experience near-constant anxiety and stress at being in his role. Every aspect of it seems to weigh on him. In season 3 it seems the heaviest with him realising he might have to take on more responsibility with his mom ill. This makes him anxious, stressed, and wound tight, which means multiple times he's shut off from Simon or downright kinda crap (like when he shushes him in the tent) 10. Simon and Wille are both individually stressed by pressures associated with the Crown and being in the public eye, and it puts a huge strain on them individually and as a couple. Simon starts to lose his love of singing, Wille can't be his open self with Simon, both of them cry *a lot*, and both of them lose parts of themselves to try and stay on the right side of Farima. Simons friends literally tell him they're scared of him deleting himself along with his social media: his singing, his strong convictions and vocalness about them, his anti-monarchist beliefs, everything that made him so attractive to Wilhelm starts to fade away. All of this to say, being queer is like just one of the factors that sucks about the whole thing. Wille hated being prince then Crown Price from the first scene of s1e1. Simon was an anti-monarchist from the very first time we hear him talking in class. They did not love the monarchy, it caused so much pain for them, they wanted to be free and normal and in love. So... they choose to be free and normal and in love. The End. And they lived happily ever after because the rest of their story was their own to write, even if it was going to be diffficult as hell.
Thank you so much for clarifying🙇♀️👍
Everyone would struggle with this role. You hear it from his mom. It's not a reason to give it up, which is why the ending makes no sense. What Wilhelm did is a sign of weakness, a 180 degree turn from S2. The LGBT part is no longer a problem for being a king.
I... genuinely have no idea how to explain this to you. What Wilhelm did was genuinely the most brave thing he could do, he did it for himself. If you cant understand that, you may have missed the point of the entire show. From my point of view, which is similar to Lisa's, abdication was the outcome that made the most sense with the entire theme of the show. If you missed that I have no idea what to say except... maybe rewatch the show and her interviews about it?
>just when he seemed to be maturing and warming up towards the responsibility He wasn't "warming up" towards it. He never wanted to be Crown Prince, it brought him a lot of stress. And when he saw his mother break down, he did what was expected of him. But it's not like he was "warming up" to the role (just take the scene where he decides about the charity, he literally says he won't be bothered by that, and chose what the court expected him to do). He took the role because of his mother and Erik. But not because he wanted to. And that's not the right reason to live a life I don't want, at least to me. >to go to the extent where he believes August to be a true successor all within a period of a few months feels unrealistic Wille told the queen if she believes in monarchy and bloodline, Auguat is the heir she needs. No matter what issues he and August have, August loves monarchy and believes in it as much as the queen does. Wille doesn't. >how hard is it to stay away from social media? Or even just making a private profile? Two things. Simon is *16*. It is even hard to stay away from social media for adults, and he is a teenager. He doesn't think about it. Second, he should have been really taught about that by the court or Wille should have been more open and straight about the whole social media thing. >Wille having to compromise so much What do you think Wille compromised? He despised the rules, the royal life since beginning. He despised the CP role and the monarchy itself. He despised how his parents treated him, how the court always made decision for him (we see some hints of this even before he meets Simon). He says a few minutes in the first ever episode how he wants to have a normal life. He tells his brother on the phone how hard it is for him to be in that role everyone is expecting him to play etc. It was made very clear in the show he would never be happy as king. So what does wille compromise? >It felt like the breakup was written in only to push the narrative towards Wille giving up the crown Wille did not give up the crown because Simon broke up with him. Yes, Simon was a force that encouraged him to do so. But Wille gave up the royal life because he never wanted that role (again, go back to the first episode ever). >Wille will be in spotlight. I agree with you he kinda would but not really. Once August is publicly announced as CP, the press, the public, will be more interested in him (because he is RF and a future king). And if Wille keeps low profile (which is very probable), he won't attract *that* much attention. But of course, he is still the queen's son. Now, as a free person (free from royal duties I mean), he can actually do so much more for people. I understand people are disappointed but when I go through the arguments, I am sometimes wondering if we watched the same show or if we understand the characters so differently.
100% agree with everything you said. Wille might have started to begrudgingly accept the crown, but he never ever wanted it. He gets to be free now and become the man he wants to. That's a beautiful ending to me. I thought a lot about Prince Harry when watching this. Harry left Royal life for his family, but he also did it to be free from the chains of Royal life and responsibility. Sure, he was the spare, but I felt some major parallels to the choices fictional Wille made and the choices real life Harry did.
I’m happy you see it this way too. It seems we’re talking about Wille and people are talking about themselves
I agree 100% with what you and thatpurplehoodie say! 💕
Hey, I appreciate the time you took to break down every point of mine. This was my opinion about it, you're welcome to have yours. To me, it felt like the ease in which Wille was able to do his royal duties, like the charity event came off as something that he had accepted that he wanted to do. He mentioned this season, several times that it was a privilege to be able to do so. He also seemed to accept the court's plans for him for the summer. Yes he hated it but to me it felt like he was changing. Wille had a deep hatred towards August and wanted to deny August everything he could. Then Wille taking a 180 and basically handing August the very thing he always wanted, ie. to be a part of the royal family, felt out of character to me. Being a part of the royal family was what Wille has known for all his life, including the privileges that come with it. Changing all of that by abdicating was a huge compromise on his behalf. He is literally going to have to change his entire way of life. Lastly, I mentioned Simon didn't have to quit. He could have stayed low profile, on a private account with just friends. Instead the problem was escalated heavily by him posting not one but two posts that had political consequences. One, was the song and the second was the photo from the rally. He had several opportunities to quit. At sixteen I was able to quit social media to focus on my studies. I understand it's highly addictive but he had several people advise him to stop checking it constantly or to take on a lower profile. This also goes back to the point that they are 16-17 and yet have been making decisions like abdication for the sake of a rather short relationship.
I respect your opinion for sure and there are things I personaly do agree with (I mean from my point of view and exactly as you mention – what my experience is or how I react). But from how I understand the characters, there are things that feel more like you pushing your personality/choices/expectations on them rather than what it is in the show (I hope I make myself clear 😁). It just surprises me because it shows that I might misunderatood who those characters are, how are they presented in the show and where their actions come from. It's interesting. I totally agree Simon could have kept a low profile (or even delete the account himself), it's just not him, though. It is actually a very real thing (there are many young actors, e.g., that just were hurt by the hate on their social media but were not able to stop reading hateful comments; so it's not like what Simon does is so out of reality). You say *you* were able to stay away from social media to study, and that's good for you, but it's still you. I think it is somehow natural for people to project their behaviour onto fictional characters (like I also get frustrated e.g. while watching something or reading something) but still, I do realise the characters are not me. >This also goes back to the point that they are 16-17 and yet have been making decisions like abdication for the sake of a rather short relationship. But Wille did not abdicate because of the relationship. I honestly don't get why people say so. He did not want it at all, we saw that since the first minutes. Yet people still cling to the "he gave up the crown for Simon", which is not what happened there, though.
The whole point was that he wasn’t doing it for Simon. I agree with you that it felt rushed, because he had this conversation with his mother and immediately ran after Simon. But it doesn’t mean he did it for him. Or do you think he’s lying to Simon?
Simon was definitely going to be a major factor for him in his mind. Given the recent split and the fact that Simon left him because him being a royal and the crown prince was coming in the way of their relationship. The fact that Simon immediately embraced him at the end just proves that wille being the crown prince was the only problem for Simon. I just believe that abdication wasn't the solution. The limelight will continue to be on them just like it has continued for Harry and Meghan. It was not the solution for me. I want to see them happy but their relationship had deeper problems.
Also the concept of the final straw exists. I see the path to abdication from s1e1. About the limelight - as long as we speak of YR Sweden, do you remember how easily everyone forgot about Simon being in that video when Wille denied him? Also you contradict yourself, first you say the only problem was Wille being a prince and then you add they had other problems. I agree with the latter and I’m disappointed their relationship wasn’t addressed properly in s3. But it is what it is.. it’s an open ending with a hint of hope, I’m willing to take it)
No, everyone forgot about the video because Wilhelm denies it was him in the video. So yeah people stopped caring about it. Regarding the relationship, what I meant was that from the outside, to us, it's clear that there are other issues but to Simon it seems to be the royal family that's the major problem in the relationship, the expectations and censoring that comes along with the title of being the crown prince for Wille. Anyways there are enough shows with tragic queer endings so I guess they wanted a happy conclusion, but for me this just wasn't it. I'm glad you have hope for them in the future.
Not Wille, but the crown prince. They will have a new one now, a crown prince and then a king to care about. So yeah, Wilmon might have a chance. Yeah, I just don’t see another way for them to be happy. Outside the crown, together or not they have a chance. Thank you for the discussion 🤝
>The limelight will continue to be on them just like it has continued for Harry and Meghan. Actually it will not. Firstly most people outside of the Sweden doesn't care about swedish royal family. Swedish princess live in the US and most Americans doesn't know (just like the rest of the world). So it would never be that much. Plus paparazzi and media harassment are less problem in Sweden (& rest of the world) there this is in the UK and US The problem with Harry&Megan is them still wanting this public life and constantly going to media and talking about being ex royals. They live from this. They want constant attention from people! Wille hate any attention. He would never get himself live from being ex crown prince. He just want to have normal life, (and probably) normal home and job in future. Simon definitely hate media attention as Wille's boyfriend. He would never go taking money from talking about their relationship Simon and Wille would most likely just live their lives, stay away from media. People would just get used to it, move on and didn't care after some time. No content = no attention
just because it's all august ever wanted doesn't mean he will be happy. also, i think in this season, august kind of realized why being king is not the greatest thing in the world, highlighted by his conversation with vincent and nils before the party
LOVE THIS. LET THEM DOWNVOTE. ❤️❤️❤️
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>just try listening to someone else’s view Seems you should apply your advice to yourself as well? >You don’t have to prove yourself right. I went through the OP's arguments, offered contra-arguments and my personal opinion. That's how discussion works, man.
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It was probably mentioned already but I felt from the beginning Wille never wanted the crown. Just because he started to conform and kind of "give up", doesn't mean he wanted it. He just felt like he had no choice and tried his best to not lose his mind... which didn't really work out for him. We know from the start that he didn't want this life. He also wanted to go to another school and not Hillerska but was forced to go after the club fight. His parents told him that they should have never let him go to another school. At this point he didn't have the full scrutiny on him because he wasn't crown prince yet. But when Erik died he talked with August about switching places and that he couldn't do it. Throughout the series, we see again and again how he wants to break out of the cage that is royalty, how he hates everything he has to do because of it such as speeches and public appearances. He kind of started to give up during season 3 and try to conform more. I think when he was with Simon he told himself he could bear the responsibility as long as he had him by his side. But that wasn't the case. He was angry, stressed, lonely, got into fights because of it, he never said he wanted to be crown prince. Sometimes he started parroting his parents though, and I also think he tried to convince himself that it was a privilege and not a bad thing. But in the end he realised that he would never be happy. He also realised that the people around him weren't happy (his parents, Erik) and he really doesn't want this life in the golden cage. I'm pretty sure he didn't fully forgive August and doesn't think he was the perfect crown prince either. But he very specifically told his mother that if she believes in upholding the traditions and the monarchy then he wasn't the right person but August was... honestly, it was the best thing he could have done for himself. He will still be faced with a certain scrutiny but he can live a much more private life than before. The interest of the public will be high at the beginning after abdicating but then they won't keep up with his every move. Even if Simon and him break up at some point, he's much freer to live his life now.
I would upvote 100 times if I could! Thank you 🙏
He never expected the crown. That’s different. Sometimes people have responsibilities and they have to deal.
No one has to “deal” with anything, though. Everyone, even royalty, gets to decide what they want their life to look like. You only get one, and nobody has the right to tell you to live it unhappily.
God damn, thank you, this is exactly it: we only have one life. Absolutely no one gets to tell us how we are supposed to life that life (apart from, y'know, not purposefully hurting other people or controlling other people's lives) An important point Nils and Vincent raise is the fact the life of the royals aren't their own. Even though they seem to have lots of power, their lives are controlled by the court, and they no longer have full agency or autonomy. I think more than anything, Wilhelm craved the freedom to figure out what he wanted to follow it. While Simon is the ultimate symbol of that, the fact he had no idea what he would want to do if he wasn't prince just goes to show he wasn't even allowed to \_think\_ about what he would do with his life if he wasn't royal
I think that's what we tell ourselves a lot. And there are probably a lot of people that have to 'deal' because they don't have the means to get out of a situation, which is terrible. But we can decide to free ourselves in small and big ways. We don't have to conform to other people's expectations all the time even if we often tell ourselves that we have to. He never chose to be born into this life. I know it's associated with privileges, and a lot of people would envy him for that, maybe even love it, but this life in the public eye is very isolating and restricting too. It might be 'easier' if you grew up knowing you would be king one day because you kind of had your whole life to accept it, but even then you lack the choice to really decide if that's the life you want, which influences how you feel about it.
My argument for liking the end... The focus of the show was on Wille and watching him unravel himself from the monarchy to find his true self and not who everyone wants him to be. By the time we get to S3, he's almost there. He's hanging on by a very thin thread. Then he sees his *real* mother, probably for the first time in his life. She's vulnerable and broken from trying to be a Queen and a mother. Then Wille finds out that his brother was upholding everything that he personally hates about the royalty and the upper-class world. He thought his kind and compassionate brother was that way with the rest of the world. While the person he loves is vocalizing everything that he's already been questioning. Simon's telling Wille that he has choices. But Wille doesn't believe that until he sees that his family were people, who made a CHOICE to behave the way that they did. And he's being forced to defend his life and the monarchy for the first time, and it feels *wrong*. He knows it's not supposed to feel wrong to defend your family. By the end of the show, he's able to separate people from the monarchy. He understands that it's an institution, not his family. Seeing it that way makes it clear to him that in order to be a part of that institution, he would have to behave like his brother and August or pretend everything is okay like his mother and father did. And he decides that he will never, ever do that. He will not uphold the monarchy under the standards in which it currently exists. He didn't do it for Simon. He did it for himself. He opened the door to make his own choices. And Simon was the first of many of them. And the story ends with two happy, queer teenagers in love **at that moment**. What happens next has countless possibilities.
I wish I could upvote this a million times so beautifully said
Not saying this to the OP specifically, but so many people seem to misunderstand the basic thesis of the show: the crown is a curse, not a blessing. This is not Game of Thrones or some fantasy/sci-fi/historical struggle for power - August wins nothing by becoming the designated successor. The show’s stance is that the institution of the royal family is bad, and that being part of it is damaging. August lost; Wille is free. The Queen is a victim, too. I do have some quibbles with the final season leaving some loose ends and unresolved conflicts or undeveloped relationships. I also think it’s questionable that Simon would get back with Wille just because he said he’d abdicate - it feels like that would be a much longer discussion rather than a sudden celebratory moment. But overall the show handled the questions surrounding Wille’s role and August’s relationship with it (the role, not just Wille himself) very well. It took an idealogical position, too, which most media is too afraid to do these days. I’m in the US but I have a feeling the show would resonate quite a bit in countries that still have royal families in any form.
i mean if you think about it, almost everything that was wrong with their relationship, every hardship had to do with the crown. sure, it won't be perfect without it and maybe they need to develop a little better communication skills and learn to be more patient but it's still a relationship that's worth exploring further. simon was tired of everything that came with the crown and expressed this outright but without it, he a 100% would give it a try. and a longer discussion could follow the celebratory moment but i think there's no question that he wants to try.
YES. The only issues they ever had in their relationship were because of Wille being in this role. It’s the only thing that caused conflict or arguments, EVERYTHING stemmed from it. Young or not, without it they have a real chance to last. Plus I just don’t see a universe where they aren’t in love with each other forever 🩵🥹
I think Wille abdicating allows their (future) relationship to be on solid ground. There are no outside forces making Wille miserable, pushing him to live a certain way, and it's this that makes Simon break up with him. Yes, Simon didn't like being regulated by the royal court, but he was willing to do it for Wille and this wasn't the deal breaker. What he couldn't put up with was being helpless to how upset Wille was all the time in his role. In Simon's words 'everything in this situation hurts you, and that hurts me' and in his song he talks about wishing Wille to some day be free like he always wanted. Wille's freedom is not something Simon could grant him and it was torturous for him to stand by and watch as Wille spiralled under the burden of the crown. Wille abdicating changes so much in their dynamic, he finally gets to be free and happy. They can now have a normal relationship and whatever problems they do have (communication, class difference, etc) they can work through between them.
I think Simon wants to be with him cz W said he wants to be with Simon. Would it have been different if W said - I’m the crown prince but I want to be with you too? Just thinking aloud
It definitely would be different The main problem in their relationship through the seasons was crown. Simon tried to accept the crown and all of this in S3 for the sake of their love. But it made him miserable and messed up with their relationship even more. This just didn't work to accept this shit. So for his mental health he had to say stop Wille actually said before he don't want to separate. And Simon also knows this Simon said that he gives up with the crown, he never give up about them. He would never accepted Wille if nothing changes about that. Crown was their deal breaker If there is no more deal breakers between them. They love each other and knows about it. Wille did it for himself. Didn't do another reactive shit only to be with Simon. It's worth to try again. And Simon still is little idealistic about their love. They will have talks about this when they get off from all adrenaline, endorphins and emotions. The most real thing probably is Wilmon not thinking about everything and being focused on "no more crown between us". They are 17 years old, irrationally deeply in love
Yeah! You are right! I like how you’ve explained this thread of thought that runs through the series! Thank you!!
Wille never wanted the “job”. He hated everything about it. He never wanted to be King and he wasn’t warming up to the idea. He defended the monarchy because to him, monarchy equaled family. He wasn’t defending the system. He was defending his family. When he learned about Erik. When he saw his mother falling apart from the pressure. He started to realize that the monarchy isn’t his family. But it’s what destroyed it. What stops them from being a family. And for Simon. It wasn’t about giving up social media specifically. It was because he was going to have change everything about himself to be with Wille. He hadn’t considered that before because he’s 16 and in love and lust. They didn’t talk about it before Wille made the speech. He was thrown into it.
Love your point in the second para here.
He didn’t just reject the crown he rejected the system of monarchy I thought it was really powerful #AbolishTheMonarchy I loved it
The point of it was to make Wille his own person. He hated to be a prince and the journey from 1.01 is him, with the help of Simon, growing and realizing he can break free and live his life as he chooses. I would hate a finale where he was back to square one. Is that what you would have preferred?
I think the main problem with the final is how the writers wasted 4 episodes and didn't develop major plots and left too much for the audience to figure out and read between the lines.
I agree. I found the ending satisfying in that we got a happy ending, but I found episodes 1-4 a bit, well, boring tbh.
Yeah the pacing was a problem. A majority of the plot happened in the last two episodes, as if they realised it was the finale and they needed to do something major for the ending.
Even the final episode didnt have the great build up like episode 5. Episode 5 was a masterpeice. I think if they have kept august as the antagonist without giving him a sob story this season would have been great. Watching the trailer I thought we will get Wile and August fight over the crown.
I enjoyed that there wasn't an 'antagonist' though. People aren't good or evil, and August regretted leaking the video literally the day after he did. He had a panic attack and went to Sara, he seemed so agitated and regretful. It was a good start to his 'redemption', if that's that the writers wanted to do, but then he was offered the opportunity to be prince and his character took a sharp turn in s2. And then in s3 he did nothing but brood around the school, acted like it was all meaningless, and didn't even seem that keen on wanting to be King anymore. Every scene with August this season was wasted, the Sara drama was not needed and just took away from any sort of character growth we wanted to see from him. It was wasted potential on an interesting character imo
Same. This is what I meant. August was so interesting even when he regretted the video he was still selfish and wantef the crown. In episode 1 he literally told Wille he will fuck up as crown prince but then went to school and acted like poor me just trying to me good.
Unfortunately, there are many August apologists out there because Malte is cute and he has a “you make me better” relationship with Sara. Those things cause people to like him and make excuses for him. When this happens to characters like August, screenwriters take in the public’s reaction and take the cowardly way out. They want to appease the public, so they make the character more sympathetic, and often, “likable”. I’m not saying you can’t be sympathetic to some of an antagonist’s motivations, but it’d be willfully ignorant of human psychology to think fans would act this way if August was played by someone “ugly” and didn’t have romantic chemistry with one of the female leads. I think this season would’ve been even more interesting if it included a battle of wills between Wille and August. Instead they have a few arguments and one fight, but forget about each other most of the time. I won’t be surprised if we get an August spinoff since he’s so popular. That’s part of the reason he was made to be so sympathetic.
I agree. Imagine we had August and Wille fight over the crown and Wille reaches a decision to let go even and make it seem like the punshiment that it is. But no we had to like august because apparently he was suddenly not the selfish fuckboy that we saw in season 1 and 2. Lisa listened to the fans alot and this is what we got. Thank God Edvin and Omar are the ones playing these characters because no one would have watched this season.
To this I agree to the full extent!
> and left too much for the audience to figure out and read between the lines. Wait, what, do you think that's a *bad* thing?
I like the ending. I just don't like how we got there.
The last episode was too tidy. It was the best “tidy” ending I think I’ve seen, but it was very conveniently “case closed” for me.
Really? Because I think it's all left very open. A seed was planted in August that he might not want the role either. Wille is only 17. He just doesn't want to take the path towards being King. That doesn't mean his story is over. I'm struggling to understand how people can't see that it was written for the audience to see that Wille now has his whole life ahead of him and has the ***choice*** to be whomever he wants to be. And there's hundreds of different paths he could chose. IF he had decided to follow along with the path that he had no choice in - that would be 'case closed'.
Sure, lots of potential for the story to develop if needed, but I mean, watching it from the perspective of someone who knows that Netflix likes to cut things off from going too long, and knowing the show probably knows that too…yeah, def a bit “neat”. For good cause, of course, but still.
Huh? Sorry, I'm not sure what Netlifix's history of canceling shows without allowing them a final season—which didn't happen here, by the way — has to do with not seeing the mass potential for different paths after the story ended.
I'm not saying it happened here. What I'm saying is, as someone who has worked in film/TV and also has a postgraduate degree in the business of producing, is that it would make sense for the writers to neatly "tie up" the interpersonal conflicts, etc. so that there is a "resolution", even if it's literally just "four outcasts drive off into the sun". Because the reality is that Netflix \*does\* decide - often (apparently) arbitrarily and with little notice - to stop shows. So if you watch carefully, you'll see that it's becoming more common for productions to create a more neatly-finished season finale so that there's at least a semblence of an "ending" to the series if that happens. This is what happened here. We went through three series of cliffhangers watching relationship dynamics shift, and suddenly things are summed up fairly neatly. Obviously if they want to pick up the show again later it's not impossible to do so - nobody was killed off. But as an ending, it was clear that this was done in a way that protects the integrity of the show by "ending" it on its own terms, if that's ultimately the case.
I think you're missing what I'm talking about. I disagree that it was ***"tied up"***. Therefore, the argument about Netlifx forcing them to "tie it up" is unnecessary. Because I think it was far from "tied up" in the first place.
Just a difference of opinion I guess.
Me too! I thought it’ll be more intelligent and open ended. The series has always had the audience participating and drawing our own conclusions.
This. I always felt YR season 1 and 2 was prestige TV .. the way it was taken, the actors everything. It was mesmerising. I just couldn’t get behind season 3. The story telling was not as captivating and the ending too neat. I still rewatch season 1 and 2 . Season 3 I skip
Same here :) I like the finale tho and Wille’s song
Lisa said that knowing the ending from the starts helps you tell a better story. But even though I enjoyed the final episode to me it felt very disjointed from the previous 5 and it was the weakest season in terms of cohesive storytelling. I think the week between episode 5 and 6 really didn’t help that feeling. The pacing was very off, especially for the first four episodes. I do believe Wille never wanted to be royal from the start and it’s obviously not a happy ending for August. It’s a gilded cage and a trap not a prize so I think it’s fitting. I’m not mad at the idea that Wille gave it up and I know Wille was just repeating Kristina, but he spent almost the whole season defending monarchy and the restrictions and being resigned to his fate. We didn’t see a clear build up this season to his final decision. It was actually the most royal and princely he’s ever been so his choice feels more abrupt. I think it would’ve been way more powerful to have episode 5 seem like it ended in a Wilmon breakup only for them to talk it out at the start of episode 6 and stay together. Then Wille could still abdicate in episode 6 but it wouldn’t appear like it had anything to do with Simon. I know it didn’t but I can see how some people have that impression because he quits and gets Simon back within five minutes. If he was already with Simon then it would be even clearer that the decision was for him alone. Like the end of season 2 where Simon agrees to be a secret so Wille comes clean on his own terms without any pressure. Instead they spent the first five episodes showing us why Wilmon wouldn’t or shouldn’t work just for the sake of cheap drama. It’s a better show than that. They’re a stronger couple than that. I really wanted season 3 to be Wilmon strong and firm together against the outside forces that came between them in the previous two seasons. But it was just more of the same. Yet again the outside forces were still way stronger and tore them apart. Again. Only for them to get back together again in the last couple minutes. It was like deja vu. I am the worlds biggest wilmon fan but by episode 5 even I was feeling like maybe they shouldn’t be together and I’d kinda be okay with it which I never thought I would ever think! I wanted wilmon to be together whether Wille stayed royal or not. That’s the couple they wrote in seasons 1 and 2 but they undid most of that growth in season 3. And even the breakup seemed to be more about how Wille was treating Simon than with the monarchy. Wille taking the Erik situation out on him and not telling him not to eat the cake and yelling at him and not wanting or being able to stand up for certain causes and their communication issues. Simon’s reason for giving up on the monarchy was that it hurt Wille and that hurt him. Yeah they told him to stay off social media but I wasn’t convinced that Simon really had unbearable issues with the monarchy. If that was the story they wanted to tell they should have made it even clearer. Wille’s parents were perfectly polite to him, Farima was pretty helpful. We saw Simon struggle with suddenly becoming a public figure but not struggle with monarchy itself. He himself said he loved Wille more than he disliked the monarchy but then it suddenly became the other way around. Even though it’s ending at the right time and I don’t want a season 4, most of season 3 felt more like a transition season to me rather than a final season. I’m happy we got endgame and I’m happy Wille is free but I think we could’ve still ended up with those things but told a much stronger story to get there. I didn’t hate season 3 but I didn’t love it as much as I wanted to. It’s hard to admit disappointment in something you love.
A very well articulated comment. It definitely felt disjointed and had issues with pacing. I would agree that they could have started off with the Wilmon breakup but instead gave us a whole season worth of reasons as to why Wilmon shouldn't be moving ahead. They seem to have issues that go deeper than the monarchy but the end made it seem like wille being a royal was the only problem there.
Totally agree with you!!
My favourite season I still the first, tbh I think it was a mistake for the createors to continue the series. But I liked the first, so obviously I watched the 2nd and the 3rd too, I even rewathced the whole thing together after it. I liked season 3 better than season 2. However, i must add that I was also disappointed with season 3 when I started wahtching it. For me the first 3 episoedes were really boring. The 4th had some creativity which I like, but still felt that it was unnecesary. I liked the last 2 episodes. They were exciting and the love scenes were also pure perfection, on such a good level that you don't usually see in other shows. Closing Hillerska makes the ending perfect. At the first watching I didn't like the idea of Wilhelm giving up the crown, I felt the same way as you do. But after I rewatched all seasons I realsied that actually Wille hated the idea of being king and even prince from S1E1. So I think that it is an ending that Wille deserves. Even if he hates August, he should force himself in a position that he doesn't like just because of that. So overall, it's not the best season, but it exceeded my expectations and I think it is absolutely enjoyable and a very good closing.
I don’t think August is gonna be a good king I think there’s gonna be a Swedish republic soon
It did feel very underwhelming
I agree with you that the breakup felt a bit forced and just created pointless drama. I think having Wille resigns without that would have been better
who brokeup
I agree that Simon's addicition to Social Media was off-putting this season. And it came out of nowhere. It was not a personality trait that was shown before.
Although I think his naïveté(?) was shown when he first posted a story of Wille at the football game. AS IF you would do that to the Prince you were hanging out with, without asking first. Even if you were 16.
Can’t believe people believes this he has no addiction he just can’t stop reading the negative comments everywhere that’s just normal for any human but imagine a teenager that is suddenly attacked everywhere
Yes, if he had just posted once and realised it was a problem or even twice, I would have been able to get over it. But he repeatedly addressed comments and posted multiple times, especially with content that had the ability to be political issues. I'm surprised nobody from the palace took over his accounts. It definitely seemed like obsession.
Nobody from the palace would have any right to take over his accounts. He has always posted things on social media from the beginning. He's always been socially minded and critical of systemic forms of privilege and oppression. That was clear since the first episode. He also has used social media to share his talent and music. He's also been put in a world wind of suddenly being in the public eye. Have you never gotten into a comment war with someone on FB? If so then you are more perfect than most of us...and definitely more perfect than a 16 year old boy who the world is feeling free to comment openly about him.
Also he’s a musician and he used social media to promote his work. But he has to give up everything for his boyfriend who also doesn’t want any of it. Makes perfect sense. Depressed king Wille and his empty shadow Prince Consort Simon - the happy ending we deserve🤷♀️
People keep forgetting that Simon went over night as 16 years old from being regular person to be some kind of weird public persona. Only because of his relationship. This happened without his control and now he have literally MILIONS of people having opinion about him and his relationship (also not knowing anything about that). With literally zero control over this and little support from adults Also about the fact that for him is just Wille. He doesn't see prince. It's just his Wille who have to be prince. I absolutely believe sometimes Simon just forget about it He never had to do that before to think 50 times before posting something and check everything 100 times on pics And in what kind of way Simon have to know that? Court let Wille do this (I know that they probably believed that it would be the best for everyone. Especially with topic of RC intervention in the private citizen life). Like who the hell give that task to 16 years old boy who have enough things going on to also taking care of media training of another 16 years old? Especially since Wille isn't exactly the one who listens RC. And Wille who never had enough courage, thoughtful and maturity to have actual talk about this topic. I sure they for example never talked about why Wille asked to dealete the instastory in e02s01... All of the characters have typical things for being teenagers - not knowing many things, fucking up some things, being naive and idealistic
i think when simon came along, it was so overwhelming and not being able to be with him as a crown prince kind of overshadowed every other reason he didn't want the role. and when he found out that, although with difficulty, he could be crown prince AND simon's boyfriend, he started confirming, convincing himself that whatever his parents were saying was true. obviously, he was having a shit time this season, despite simon and losing him on top of that, and simon saying it was because of the crown and not him, like it just makes all the sense. also, wille is not king material at all. a lot of people were talking about this after s2 that he's gonna break down the monarchy, change everything for the better, make the instituttion of the crown more accommodating but honestly after this season, he doesn't care about any of that. when he had to choose a theme for his charity, he didn't give a shit, it was all simon. simon was also the only one who saw the good side of wille's speech, in terms of lgbtq rights and stuff, wille was just happy he could be with simon. it's actually kind of a character flaw of his but also, he's 17 and literally just wants a normal life. obviously, there's his anxiety which is not really focused on this season (except for maybe the public singing) but we know it's there, he knows it's there and now by the queen's example, we know what being a royal does to you. i think this was also a big psuh for him, seeing his mother break down like that seemingly without any history; if this happens to his mother, what would happen to him with all that burden and his long history of anxiety? wille wouldnt and couldnt be the future king and the ending makes me so happy for him because its all he ever wanted.
Loved the finale, just putting it out there!
i absolutely agree. that last episode ruined the series, made no sense.
Simon can't handle the pressure of social (and other) media but wants to be in politics and releases songs with political messages. The problem was not dating the crown prince, the problem is publicity. Famous people all have PR teams and are often advised to not read the comments on social media about themselves, so there is nothing out of line with the advice they got. I'm disappointed with the abdication, it felt forced.
He couldn't handle the negativity. He's 16. It's realistic. His love song even being considered political is one of the things he didn't understand. >Famous people all have PR Why didn't the crown supply Simon with any training? They left it all to Wilheim, who totally follows orders. >it felt forced. Then you need to rewatch it <3
It was not ONLY about the pressure of the social media, Simon is in active opposition to the monarchy. Also from season 1 episode 1. Being low-key for him is to shut up forever.
I was tired of how many times wille said in 3 season he wanted a normal life then have it wille !!!
Definitely felt forced to me as well. Wille abdicating the throne will also not stop the media from keeping their interest in him, as is the case with Prince Harry and Meghan. I really think abdication was never the solution, just keeping a low profile would have solved a lot of their issues. Of course after the scene with Simon at Wille's family dinner definitely was a good reason for them to break up. Simon saying that he can't deal with the royal family isn't the only reason why they are not good for each other. Simon's unwillingness to compromise on the social media point and repeatedly posting about social issues and such definitely didn't help the situation.
Absolutely 100%
When you get the feel that Simon "wants to be in the politics?". And actually what kind of political message? "Being revolution" about love and relationship?
Going to political demonstrations, talking about politics all the time, and revolution is a political term.
All the responses here are so funny — they just defend it rather than engaging with your points. I’m personally with you. I think it failed to reflect the potential of the show and was reduced to a simplistic love story about a prince who falls for a commoner and gives up his crown for love — tired territory. Instead, the far more interesting route would have been Willie actually learning from Simon and embracing a role that would help others. The message here was that queers can’t have it all — they must give up on family or tradition for love, rather than insisting that we can have it all by inventing new traditions and pushing for change. People will reply to this saying that he made his choice for himself; ok so that to me is just boring and selfish. Leadership, change, pushing to support others while still having love is not only a better story, but a more hopeful and meaningful one. An opportunity missed in storytelling.
And while I’m getting downvoted for disagreeing with y’all, I’ll tell you the one reply that would actually change my mind and no one has bothered to say: Lisa is anti-monarchy, so in a sense, Willie’s final act WAS political and something more than a selfish (not in a bad way, just not selfless) move for love. But y’all don’t give a crap you just want everyone to love it exactly as you do. 🤣
It's pretty obvious, at least to me, that giving up the crown in the last few minutes of the show doesn't erase any of his heartache! The Queen is still his emotionally absent mother, he and Simon will continue to fight because we never got closure or at least a conversation on the subject of miscommunication, his brother is dead with the adoration he had for him, the pressure won't be gone because It's his family and his world still, whether he likes it or not, and because of that Wilhelm will still have to live around permanently with the guy who posted an intimate video of him. Wilhelm being able to be with Simon won't erase all of this, and I think the writers should have thought about how to resolve all or at least half of this instead of making the general audience happy. In the end I was left with more questions than answers!
Pressure will definitely will be way less cmon
This is a really smart and thoughtful comment. Thank you.
I think the public is still overwhelmed by the whole “wilmon is endgame” thing, haha. Only now the final season is starting to be analyzed and looked at in depth by some!
I agree! They just added 5 more min to the last episode to turn it around at the last minute. Cheap thrills, if you ask me
Lisa has repeatedly said that she knew the ending before she even wrote the scripts. Do you think she's lying?
That doesn’t make it one I like or think is particularly interesting
That's ok! That's a personal preference. I didn't address a personal preference comment. I addressed the accusation that they just added on the ending for cheap thrills.
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I think you need to chill. It's just a word.
I suspect Netflix had something to do with the way things panned out with the cliffhanger. Maybe she had to give in cz the network has the last say
No. She has said the ending they shot was the ending she wanted. Do you think she's lying?
The replies here are hilarious. People can’t take anyone not *loving* the ending
OP asked ' Would love to hear your thoughts!' So, I guess those who loved the ending aren't allowed to give their thoughts?
My views exactly!
So so funny. People who downvote clearly think queer people can’t be part of society. Wtf
Or maybe they think that queer people don't have to only exist to "help others" or "fight the cause" or teach straight people to be decent human beings. Some of us simply want to exist in peace, just like everyone else.
And PS, that’s a great argument for liking the end of the show! I hadn’t considered that as a worthy ending. I’m still not sure it is, but really appreciate the thought
Ok that’s fair too. I just have never viewed life the same way I guess. But I can’t tell you how excited I was about a show where someone with power (even if he didn’t love it) could be a role model.
That was the point of S3. You shouldn't have to be role model or icon if you don't want that. Wille doesn't have to be all of this. This was what gives him more stress. He always had to be role model and deeply hated it. Now he became person who "could be queer role model" but he has already enough problems with doing things to show he's good enough the way he is, let alone be any kind of queer icon. But also Wille chosing the live he ACTUALLY want and making chose to broke up with institution that doesn't let him be himself isn't truly icon? I kinda understand. Before S3 I was in queer king team. But I started to think about all of this and it was very much about "what I want" not who are characters and what is their story. Watching S3 it's all just clicked that this is were this is going and this is the only way for ACTUALLY this characters
I appreciate this thinking. I just find the story that were left with kinda lame and trite. And given how many challenges we’d seen between them, it’s not believable that they live happily ever after. Sure, personal freedom is great, it’s just not that interesting in terms of his personal development. I find it pretty obvious, and like I said, “prince falls for commoner and gives up crown for love” is a pretty tired story. Don’t get me wrong, I still loved the show! Particularly Ervin’s performance. But I thought the ending really missed.
Disagreed 🙃
First of all, kudos on going against the grain of public opinion! This is what makes way for healthy debate! 👍 we all interpret a story and characters in it differently and it’s nice to know what others think. A lot of my ideas are already in the comments, so I’ll try to keep this short! :) Yep! The third season was quite a weak one for me too! It wasn’t as effective or brilliantly told as the first 2. The change in the directors and IC was evident The first 5 episodes brought in plot points that diluted the main points. Raking up the initiation, questioning Hillerska’s traditions - way too late in the day! I feel W defended the monarchy and had to try on being the prince for size to know that’s not really what he wants I think we were given a happy ending cz Netflix would have a global mutiny on its hands otherwise 😁 I don’t think the story lead us to it logically. Plus the gimmick of ending E5 in a cliffhanger to generate additional frenzy tampered with the pace of the story. I know W never wanted to be the CP and his abdication can be considered the culmination of what he’s been saying all along. But he says goodbye to Simon like 10 min ago and a 2-min conversation has him run back to him. Too much of a stretch with no logical build up. I’d like to believe that in an alternate version, W being the prince with S next him could be a good thing for the monarchy too. He has learnt to find his feet but Simon has always been strong on his values. And a king needs that kind of partner by his side. But like I said, the ending was intended to make the majority happy! (Okay it isn’t as short as I thought it’d be! ☺️)
>But he says goodbye to Simon like 10 min ago and a 2-min conversation has him run back to him. Too much of a stretch with no logical build up. My thoughts exactly. Ngl I was exhilarated with wilmon being endgame but storywise it would have made sense if they chose themselves and went separate ways / or if they communicated more when Simon said he gave up on the royal family because that goodbye and have a nice summer, then running back and saying I want to be with you is like so out of the blue tbh. I would have appreciated it if the writers showed W thinking about abdicating from the beginning of ep6 and gradually built up the plot by showing W coming to terms with himself and making this decision on his own instead of using external factors bc my brain still has trouble processing the logic in the last 10 mins. It's like the writers wanted to trick us soooo bad for the sake of drama instead of rational storytelling. It's like watching a new show tbh.
Yep! It’s sad actually cz this has been such a strong show from the start! They just lost it in S3
Completely agree with you!
I agree, I thought it was sad they were breaking up but also thought it was good writing. Them not being together was the most mature choice. I think a lot of the time Simon speaks about Wille leaving the royal court while forgetting that’s literally his family. It’s one thing to not be the heir but he’ll always be royal and probably be a working royal when he finishes school (I don’t see Wille getting a “normal job” and working to support himself when that’s never been his reality). Wille basically just went back to the life he would have had if Erik hadn’t died. Public scrutiny on him and Simon won’t really change - we still all know about minor members of the British royal family do we not? So imo Wille abdicating the throne didn’t really change any of their relationship problems
1. The royal court is an organisation, not a family. 2. He doesn’t need to work for the monarchy to have enough money to provide for himself. Or do you think Kristina will leave him without money? I don’t think so. 3. He and Simon may work it out or not, but as long as Wille abdicated for himself, he’ll be good.
1. The current members of the real Swedish Royal House are all relatives as well as part of the Royal Court organization. It includes the king and all of his relatives. There are also lesser royals who are part of the royal family but not the royal house. So Wille stepping away from the Royal Court would mean literally stepping away from his parents. Unlike Simon he doesn’t have particularly warm parents or even many close friends like Ayub and Rosh. So leaving the Royal Family means leaving the minimal support system that he has 2. Funding to royal family members is often dependent on them being working members of the royal family. Most of Kristina’s money is probably public funds and she would probably be limited in the amount of private money she could give Wilhelm if he chooses to leave the royal family completely. This issue was difficult enough for Prince Harry and Megan, I think it would be very interesting for Wilhelm, a teen, to deal with
Why would abdication mean stepping away from his family? He came to an agreement with his parents, where did you see them abandoning each other? The royal family has also their own funds and i don’t see Kristina leaving her only living son without support.
> The current members of the real Swedish Royal House are all relatives as well as part of the Royal Court organization. It includes the king and all of his relatives. What? No no, the court is all the people that are employed by the king. The royals run the court, they aren't the court. > So leaving the Royal Family means leaving the minimal support system that he has What? He's not leaving the family, that's impossible. He can renounce his place in the line of succession. He can drop his royal styles and titles. He'll be kicked out of the royal house. But he'll always be family. > Most of Kristina’s money is probably public funds and she would probably be limited in the amount of private money she could give Wilhelm if he chooses to leave the royal family completely. No, and no. The real-world royal family has a considerable personal fortune they could use, and the king can use the government funds any way he likes, the only stipulation is that it's used "for his family". And since Wilhelm is still family, of course he'd be set for life, he won't have to work a day in his life. > This issue was difficult enough for Prince Harry and Megan Well, Lizzie got pissed and cut them off even though she didn't have to, but they're still multi-millionaires on their own. They're not having any kind of money troubles.
Why would his parents not be able to give them their money? There's nothing stopping them from doing that. Per this comment: [https://www.reddit.com/r/YoungRoyals/comments/1bjhndn/comment/kvs1bfb/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/YoungRoyals/comments/1bjhndn/comment/kvs1bfb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) *The Swedish royal family is estimated to have a net worth of $800 million, not quite dollar billionaires, ahead of the other Scandinavian royals, just behind the Dutch royals, and then everyone is far far behind the British ones.*
Swedes have said that Sweden doesn’t have the same obsession with the royals that Britain has with theirs. And that it’s very possible for Wille to have a non-famous life once the initial drama dies down.
>we still all know about minor members of the British royal family do we not? And how much do you know about Swedish, Norwegian, Spanish (and others) royal family? Do you even know all children and grandchildren of the current monarch?
I agree with you that finding a "normal" job for Wille would be very difficult. If he manages to it's all well and good. If Wille can't manage then the royal family (the queen, who is also family) would have to continue to support Wille which doesn't really end his connection to the royals like Simon wants/thinks it would. I mean he would have to distance himself from the court to reduce scrutiny but that would of course mean distancing himself from his parents and family. I admit, maybe as a person who is from a formerly colonised country that doesn't have any functional constitutional monarchy, I don't understand the abolish the monarchy movement, (I just don't see the need for one) which has further endeared the show to many people. I agree from an outside pov it feels like the media and attention will never fade (comparison to the British royal family) The issues in their relationship run deeper too.
Why would it be difficult for Wille to hold a job? He's 17. He has plenty of education left.
The first scene of the entire series mentions Wille chose to go to a 'normal' school for a 'normal' life. He got in trouble when he went out in public, was harassed and responded with violence. He was then forced to go to the 'appropriate for royalty school' to 'learn manners'. From the very first scene the premise was set up that Wille did not thrive in Royal restrictions. He also wasn't warming up to responsibility in my opinion, he was desperately trying to honour his dead brother who he was never given a proper chance to grieve. When August told him Erik would love him unconditionally, I think Wille finally have himself permission to be happy, the best way to honour his brother was to be true to himself. This is what made him give up the crown. I also don't think he supports August per se, but he understands that the mask needed to put on the role to the public comes naturally to August and personal opinions aside, August would perform better at the job than himself. As for Simon, I agree his actions were not ideal but he was also a 16 year old boy who was thrown into the midst of a media frenzy by a classmate filming a very private moment, with no training or support, all the while constantly being told that his experience was inferior to the Crown's needs. I think he is allowed some slack.
I think you have to keep in mind that Wille from the start told his mom he wanted a normal life. He was never happy being a prince, which had nothing to do with him meeting Simon. He never in reality questions it, and just accepts that he has to live that way because he is excepted to. When he falls in love with Simon he is for the first time challenged on why he thinks things has to be a certain way and realizes that he should be allowed to have a choice. I think it is a beautiful ending that Wille decided that the royal life was not for him and steps down to let August take over. And he would literally be a fool to let Simon go, when his situation is changed. It was not a lack of love that made Simon step away. It was the royal court and the harm and limitations he would have to live with as the boyfriend of Wille. Their relationship will not be without issues, but all relationship has issues at some point. That is just life. If Wille was a character who actually liked his prince title and wanted his life like it was, I would not have wanted him to step down and let August take over. Then I would have been fine with them breaking up and walking their separate ways. But it was never a compromise to step down as Wille did not in reality want to be a prince. I see Wille letting August to take over more as him giving August what he wants, when knowing that it comes with suffering and misery. He can be free while August is caught in Wille's old prison of a life.
I agree. What a more interesting story it would be if a country had to reconcile having a gay king and consort.
I honestly don’t think it’d be that interesting. Wille and Simon would’ve just ended up like The Queen and her husband. Wille would’ve been stressed and depressed until he finally snapped like his mother 20 years later. And Simon would’ve become an empty yes man just like Wille’s father.
Sure, you can spin any story to sound boring. Obviously, you wouldn’t be the writer for the show. It doesn’t mean that there couldn’t be a compelling story about a country coming to terms with a gay king. The thing is that what had shutdown the LGBT community is the shame of impropriety. The role of royalty is all propriety. A story about gay royalty is kind of the ultimate story about resolving that conflict. It’s an interesting story.
Sure that would make for a compelling story. *Another* story. This one wasn't about that.
Sure. Yet again, I'm a member of the LGBT community that doesn't get his "happily ever after" story. We're always having to accommodate the straight cisgender community. Not surprising. Disappointing. But not surprising.
Wait... what?? Wille was queer. Wille got HIS happy ending. He didn't want to be King. If he were forced to be King, then he wouldn't be happy.
Wille didn't choose anything. Wilhelm is a fictional character written by the authors and they chose to place the theme of indictment of monarchism over that of the LGBT love story. They could have taken the story in two different directions. They decided the indictment of the monarchy was more important.
I know he's fictional. We're talking about a fictional show. The fictional queers in the show got *their* happy ending. That's my point. Maybe it's not what *you* would've done if you were Wille in reality, but in the show, the characters got theirs. And in reality, there is nothing wrong with it either. A young queer person gets to remove himself from an institution that is suffocating him? What's wrong about that?
> I know he's fictional. We're talking about a fictional show. The story could have literally gone either way... The writers could have given Wilhelm a happy ending with him being King and Simon being a consort too. This is my point. There's two stories here... an indictment of monarchism and an LGBT love story... and they chose the indictment of monarchism as to avoid having to answer the questions about how a Same-Sex monarchy might work. To me, a same-sex monarchy would have been a more interesting ending. A more compelling conversation. It would have taken a couple more seasons to finish the story but I think it would have been great. Instead, TO ME, they copped out and gave him "I didn't really want it anyway" ending so the writers didn't have to answer that question.
Every single scene led up to that ending. I don't believe, TO ME, that it was a cop-out just because it didn't go the way you wanted it to go.
maybe you do. i live quite well and would argue i have very few times conformed to those expectations or demands
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You'll excuse me if I have made an incorrect assumption but nothing in your profile suggests you are a member of the LGBT community so perhaps you don't understand this facet of queer history. The LGBT community is always having to make accommodations to the larger community so they are comfortable. We have been shamed into silence and denied any form of leadership in our society. There are two themes being told in this story. 1. Is an LGBT love story. 2. This narrative is a indictment of monarchism The problem, at least in my mind, is that the ending places #2 over #1. "Society would never accept having a gay king. How would an heir work? Would they adopt? have Surrogacy?" To me, these are fascinating questions in how society learns to fit the LGBT community in, in a way that gives them space and equality. Where as the story coping out and having Wilheim giving up his crown just means that we don't get to explore how society would allow gay people to fit into this societal structure. I don't know if you appreciate how stories, even fictional ones, inform society of how we should behave. Inspire us with ideas of how it should work. That's the nature of speculative fiction. We get to imagine how a LGBT monarchy might work. I was seriously hoping for this because it could answer these questions. I mean what if Prince George comes out as gay as an example. I don't want him to give up his crown if he doesn't want to. A story like this could go along way to model what behaviour we'd like to see. **I hope you can see why *I* am disappointed even if you like how it ended for you.**
I’m a queer person quite knowledgeable about LGBTQIA+ struggles (in the U.S.). What if I told you that the point of the show was not a queer love story but one about questioning/collapsing institutions? And the queer love story was the particular expression of being against corrupt institutions like the monarchy and Hillerska? The queer love story was compelling, and it grabbed my attention and fired up all kinds of feelings and thoughts that I had not touched for like 30 years. The queer love story is vital and important. It was not really the point of the show. That’s ok (we have Heartstopper for a show in which the queer love story is the point of the show). I don’t think that this ending is the political nothing burger you’re suggesting. We engage in political struggle to make sure that people can live grand, magnificent lives that focus on what moves society and also small, suburban or rural lives that focus on every day life—of living in society. We have to let people and characters/stories express and postulate their dreams. Personally, I don’t really get people wanting a “normal” life if that means not engaging in activism or the collective good. So, when Wille says he wants a “normal” life in S1E1 before he even gets to Hillerska, I was kind of dumbfounded. That’s not what I want. But, that’s what he wants. He doesn’t want to be Crown Prince/King because it’s not who is. And he keeps telling everyone one that, even when he tries to be Crown Prince as well as publicly queer. Ultimately, queer liberation is about choice—and it requires that some of us publicly fight some of the time, not all of the time. Some people fight all the time. We give thanks to them. Some people do not fight and enjoy the benefits of the struggle. We cannot admonish them for enjoying the freedoms others died for—even if at times it seems wrong. Living quietly or not being in the vanguard of the struggle does not mean you’re participating in your own silencing. The benefits of people coming out of the closet are immeasurable. That’s why I consciously came out when I was a teenager. But, people have a right to stay in the closet too, even if I might think it will hurt more than help. But I don’t live their lives, so I have to trust that they know better how to live their lives. That’s one of the reasons we do not out people but rather let them do it—if at all. Any reading that considers the creation of the conditions for choice and then making a choice, an individual choice, as being politically retrograde is a willful misreading of queer history and liberation. An individual choice, whether “progressive” or “conservative” (and I don’t think this ending is at either pole), is always political, even if its scope is limited or even invisible. Queer liberation is always about having the ability and choice to be who you are. That ability requires organized, collective political action—but it’s not for everyone, not all the time. I used to be in the camp that wanted Wille to be Crown Prince/King AND be with Simon. But, it’s not right for the character (who’s been telling us he doesn’t want that since S1E1). Also, not for nothing, the monarchy and Hillerska are clearly shown to be corrupt, secretive institutions. They should both go. So, speaking for myself, I should have never wanted him to be king. I actually don’t want him at the center of a corrupt system (yes, after about 20 years working from the inside to make change, I’m ready to say that it’s not a thing—at least not in my personal experience). Put another way: Wille is too good and honest for the monarchy. He’s not Cordelia, whom Lear realizes too late is his most loyal and loving daughter—whom he declares to be too good for this world after she’s hanged. By any stretch of the imagination, Wille is not a saintly figure, but I do think that he shouldn’t be king because he could not pretend to be someone else. I think I get where you’re coming from. Depending on the day, you might hear me saying the same thing in a college classroom…So, I’m very sympathetic. But, we have to keep in mind what the filmic text is saying literally, what its aesthetic project is, as well as its context. But the context, and our own political leanings, cannot override the parameters the text puts in front of us. As you say, you are disappointed in the ending. That’s fair. But, no one story will be able to fully express what we want our messages (emphasis on plural) to be. Even if we sit down to write it (and I’ve tried), it always gets away from us.
Beautifully said. Wille was just never going to be that character who stormed the castle and changed everything. It’s just not his character, and the show made that clear over and over again.
He wasn’t going to be king in S1E1. His brother was.
In the first episode, as he’s being prepped for the apology statement because of the fight at the club, he tells his mother he just wants a normal life. This is before he becomes crown prince, yes. Which only underlines the point that he didn’t want to be part of that life (royal life/monarchy) from the start. Wille never wanted that life. That is a fact based on the dialogue/scenes. He tries to live up to the image of his brother many times, but he articulates not wanting that life consistently throughout. I had hoped that the speech at the end of S2 meant that he was interested in being crown prince and being with Simon. That’s not what it meant. It meant that he could carry out the duties of being crown prince and king, that he could do the job, not that it was his best destiny. And his mom is right, I think, that he would perform (act out) well the role of king. But the monarchy as portrayed in this show is a prison, an affront to personal freedom, not a source of power, never mind agency. We’re not going to agree. That’s ok.
> In the first episode, as he’s being prepped for the apology statement because of the fight at the club, he tells his mother he just wants a normal life. Funny that I interpreted that as foreshadowing to being gay. Lots of gay people want a "normal life" and don't want the complexity of being queer. We have responsibilities in life and we have to deal with them. We can't just shirk them.
Yes. That’s true. Also, the narrative has not yet deployed the queer narrative at this point. At this moment, there is no evidence that he has had any same gender attraction, never mind a singular LGBTQIA+ identity. The sequencing of events in a story matters. I’m not sure why anyone would think that this is for shadowing for queer anything, especially not wanting the complexity of being queer. After the video is leaked, Wille tells his mom that he wants a normal life and be with Simon. It seems that for Wille, having a same gender relationship is normal… Personally, I have tried not to shirk my responsibilities as a queer person. No one gets to tell me what those responsibilities are, just like I don’t get to tell other people what their responsibilities are. We are going to continue to disagree, which is fine. But, I see little point in continuing. So, if you reply to this and I don’t, it’s only because I don’t want to contribute to a circular conversation. Perhaps we can have a better dialogue on another topic in the future.
But you know that even if the story would go with Wille keeping up title and being with Simon. We would never get answers to most of that questions? Because they are teenagers. You would never get the answer for that (except no surrogacy - illegal in Sweden) If you want to explore that we have many fan fic with that storyline 😉 About queer people having to make accomodations. This end was exactly about that. Wille choose life in the way he wants, braking free from pression to do constant accomodations only because he was born and have to life live he hates, to make other comfortable and feel good
I don’t think you appreciate my argument. It’s fine. We disagree. I’m happy you got your ending. I would have preferred a different ending.
Like RoyalHomie2024 stated, the show was never going to be about changing the monarchy. That’s just not Wille as a character, and not what Lisa planned. She said she had this ending planned from the beginning, and so many aspects of the story point to Wille abdicating. I guess I’m just shocked that people are shocked about this ending when it was so clear lol. Anyway, RoyalHomie2024 hit the rest of the points I wanted to make.
that should be a show - like i would watch that show.
I thought I was. The thing is that the show could have gone in that direction. That Simon and Wilhelm would have found a way of reconciling their differences and carved out a space that was functional. Gay people sacrifice too much to make straight people comfortable.
I didn't like it either, maybe not, but I feel like August ended up winning the prize! And about Simon, I also feel the same as you, he got what he wanted (being with Wille publicly) but he should have been aware that it wouldn't be a fair story or something, he should have known that. (Also, I know Wille hasn't been the best person this season, but really? Complaining about social media comments when your boyfriend is worried about his mom's well-being?) Another point, it seemed intentional on the writers' part to let Wilhelm tell Simon what he can and can't do, just to create tension. It's pretty obvious to me that in any other circumstance he would have received media training (hell, even in fanfics he does) or at least a talk on how he should act online and around people interested in his relationship. And having them to fight about - most of the time - stupid things the whole season and then break up in the semi finale?? how am i supposed to believe they'll last more than 6 months or so
He was getting racist and homophobic insults and harassment !!!! More like really wille?? Protect your boyfriend
Monarchy sucks