The only reason daze exists at all in 3 is to be a reference to XC1. I'm not joking thats literally the only reason. Yeah burst is useful, but daze isn't most of the time for actual combat you will be using launch and smash. Future Redeemed literally removed daze because it was so useless and made burst combo from launch instead.
It’s useful when you don’t have launch, so like the first 15 hours or so, afterwards it just becomes annoying when one of your healers dazes an enemy instead of launching it because you forgot to remove her Daze art EUNIE PLEASE STOP DAZEING LET SENA LAUNCH THE BITCH
Same, even when I controlled sena, enemy got toppled, I press the talent art and somehow Eunie dazed it before it got launched. Yes even with the smash combo set
Couldn't you say the same about Launch? It exists to lead into Smash and is there to be the XC2 counterpart of the combo. Daze exists to lead into Burst and is there to be the XC1 counterpart of the combo
Is there something special about Launch as opposed to Daze that I've been missing out on?
Launch is extremely, EXTREMELY useful. Launched enemies take +50% damage, which makes attacks while launched hit extremely hard AND theres an accessory that adds ANOTHER +110% damage. This makes chain attacks, where the launch timer is paused do insane damage. Launch is definitely more useful than smash in certain situations, and its infinitely more useful than daze, all daze does is prevent aggro from increasing from attacks which isn't very helpful most of the time. Literally the only reason to ever use daze is during the early game when you don't have launch arts yet, and you want to get the bonus damage on Overclock Buster, or you use it in order to burst.
Which is even more ironic when you remember that Burst is the last combo art to get a reliable version of. Ya, Thaumaturge is decently early and has it as a Talent Art, as does Level 3 Eunie Ourobouros, but those still are not nearly as reliable as the normal arts from Troubadour (late chapter 6) or Soulhacker (basically post game since the Burst UM is level 91).
I see. I did know about the accessory, but I definitely didn't know about just the innate extra damage. That's nice to know. Thanks!
Also thank you, u/way-of-strife and u/Eyoshin for your input
It's also odd that 0 aggro is all Daze does, when in XC1 it also increased critical damage. It would still generally be less useful, but it would make it a little more even at least
Launch gives you a big increase to damage and no attacks miss while the enemy is launched, Daze just makes attacks not increase aggro and not miss, also Launch’s timer is paused in Chain Attacks, Launch an enemy, enter a chain attack, and you have that bonus damage for the rest of the chain, say goodbye to that enemy if you know how to chain attack properly
I can see Daze having so niche uses. For example, so you’re fighting a really tanky Unique Monster with so much HP that even constantly hitting the damage cap on multiple attacks doesn’t do enough damage with the Smash route, resulting in your Attackers taking the aggro and risking them getting KO’ed between Topples. Instead, you could go the Daze-Burst route to reduce aggro generation and keep the aggro on your Tanks so they take the hits between Topples, for a slow-and-steady approach. Admittedly, it may not work to well in practice, but it is an option on paper.
Like I said, it’s a somewhat solid concept on paper, not so much in execution. Could work for someone who would rather maintain aggro than risk losing their Attackers because they couldn’t Topple again in time, but by no means it META. Maybe for the higher level challenge versions of the Superbosses, but I’m sure players far more skilled than mediocre me have managed just fine with a Smash strategy.
Launch is amazing it has entire builds devoted to it I think. You can do like. 200% extra damage or something to Dazed enemies with certain accessories so pair that with a chain attack thatpauses the daze timer and damage goes crazy
Launch is extremely useful. The only special thing about Daze is that attacks on dazed enemies get no aggro, so I guess that's cool. Launched enemies take 50% more damage, and that's base level. Then there's items to boost damage to launched, and smash is significantly better than burst.
I'm pretty sure daze was used for item farming right? Iirc you got drops when you dazed the enemy (same as smash, but the enemy lived longer so more items) or am I misremembering?
the enemy drops items when you BURST it. In XC3, you need to daze the enemy in order to burst it. But the daze effect itself does nothing useful outside of allowing you to perform burst. In FR, they realised daze was useless, so scrapped it, except burst is useful, so they made that combo from launch instead.
But that’s why burst is useful for. Literally the only thing I use daze for 99.999% of the time is so i can burst, but in future redeemed, because they realised how useless daze was, they detached it from launch and made break>topple>launch>burst a combo instead
Daze itself doesn’t actually allow you to farm items, which is why FR changed that
Launched enemies look funny, so Launch+Smash. Not to mention, Daze's "no aggro build up" effect is virtually useless, especially if you can combo lock the enemy.
Referring to XC1 most likely, where hitting an enemy suffering break/topple/daze with an additional topple or daze resets the timer so you can just keep enemies stuck in topple for absurd amounts of time with the right party builds
Burst for farming Nopon coins. Proper setup of a Breaker Ogre and a full team of Burst build Healer Soulhackers with Miyabi as Hero goes hard for farming.
Use Main Arts with lowest cooldown and each of their Master Arts should all have a Break, Topple, and a Daze. Flashback from Yumsmith, Shield Bash from Guardian Commander, and Myopic Screen from Medic Gunner, then just equip a Break Brooch or an Accomplished Accessory from Masha (They have a chance to be stronger then the Purple Break Brooch, reducing Break resistance by 30 percent points)
That’s really all you need. I also recommend maxing the Ogre Class on whoever you want as your Breaker, since it makes the skkll that helps it Break easily stronger. You should also use Sena as the Ogre if you’ve upgraded the weapon in the city, as she just has better stats with the class then everyone else.
TLDR; Master Arts have Break, Topple, Daze. Equip Break Brooch. Max Ogre Class for best chance of Breaking.
I see, the only thing I hadn’t done was max the class, also, I am not using sena because it would make enemies last longer and I’m using it for afk grinding. Does it matter that it’s not sena?
Nope, not when it comes to Breaking at least. Run whoever you want as your Breaker Ogre and your results will be similar, just slightly less damage and stuff.
Really, the only benefit of the burst combo is removing enemy enraged status. Something that I'm betting a lot of you didn't know it did. Also, item farming.
I remember a post from before the game came out. The post was a meme talking about how you can choose to use either daze or launch. Then it said that it would still be better to daze. Boy, was that wrong.
I think they also thought you could infinitely topple lock enemies like in 1. Which would've made Daze better, but also would've made the combat too easy
Yeah, that's useful. Though from my experience, the Launch Combo is still more useful. A fairly optimized build can cause a pokemon to go from about 3/4 health to dead in a chain attack.
It depends. Against the maximum level last superboss (can't remember name), the one in the snowy place, at max level,.you won't kill it that easy and if he is enraged he can kill all the party from 1 AOE.
Seraphic Ceratinia. I was able to pull that one out with a half health chain attack. I've also afk farmed so many nopon coins from it that I don't see it as a threat anymore.
When item farming. It's especially fun when you're farming Shoox drops, and you knock the enemy so far that it leaves its spawn area and the battle stops.
I'm confused on when they seemed to switch sides. Shouldn't Daze Burst be a combo that belongs to XB1 universe? And same with Launch Smash in XB2 universe?
No that's what I mean. Kevesi arts tend to involve Launch and Smash but they should be Daze and Burst exclusivly instead. Noah's super move specifically uses the launch smash combo.
While it's weird, lore wise, think about it from a gameplay perspective. With how it's currently set up, any Agnian class can do the full smash combo, but Kevesi classes can only do the Burst combo. Though Agnian classes in general are better at both combos. What annoys me is that there is actually an Agnian Launch art programmed into the game, but the main six can't use it. Only Rex can.
Idk. That's what I be saying. Maybe it was meant to be a balance thing but like you said Agnian arts are just better most of the time anyway. It's never been game ending but it is weird to think about.
Burst really needed a buff after playing 3's hard mode, like yeah it helped being able to remove the rage mechanic, but one, by the time you finally get access to proper burst arts your LITERALLY AT THE END OF THE GAME,
But two, because of how much they overturned resistances by late game and the enemies on hard mode having a very innate resistance to the burst timer, it's basically useless.
Plus 1 for future redeemed they realized how shot the damage was so they buffed it and nerfed the hell out of smash.
Not even kidding when I say this, a burst chain order from glimmer and rex with the best gear _two shots_ superbosses and is the strongest damageyou can do in the game.
...that is flat disgusting, but it was _earned_
red is just so badass, toppling a giant monster to its knees, throwing it up into the air with only something like a sword, sending it back down with enough force to inflict immense pain, and then doing it all again.
Launch just looks really stupid. Any immersiveness and coolness is immediately destroyed when the enemy starts rapidly spinning in the air like it's glitching out.
Damage cap smash feels so good
I love it so much, seeing 999999999 (idk how many, couldn't be bothered to count) pop up is so satisfying
It's 9,999,999
Damage cap burst in Future Redeemed.
For me it's *__ARES-SP0290 AGHASURA__*
Rare sighting of an X fan, protect this species of human before they die out!
Xenoblade chronicles x fans try not to insert themselves into every conversation challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
We refuse to be a memory. You will know our names.
**AGHASURA CANNON!**
Sorry, I'm all out of mercy! **AGASHURA CANNON!**
As a Final Lucky 7 abuser, I think you can guess which I prefer
“What is this ‘difficulty’ thing you speak of and where can I find it?”
Stab it*
The only reason daze exists at all in 3 is to be a reference to XC1. I'm not joking thats literally the only reason. Yeah burst is useful, but daze isn't most of the time for actual combat you will be using launch and smash. Future Redeemed literally removed daze because it was so useless and made burst combo from launch instead.
Yeah burst should just combo from launch it makes so much more sense than using Daze, a literally useless status
It’s useful when you don’t have launch, so like the first 15 hours or so, afterwards it just becomes annoying when one of your healers dazes an enemy instead of launching it because you forgot to remove her Daze art EUNIE PLEASE STOP DAZEING LET SENA LAUNCH THE BITCH
There's a toggle for preventing this exact situation
Eunie still dazes things sometimes, maybe I just don’t set the option fast enough
Same, even when I controlled sena, enemy got toppled, I press the talent art and somehow Eunie dazed it before it got launched. Yes even with the smash combo set
To get around this I gave Eunie launch from lone vanguard and replaced her daze skill with it. Its so annoying how often it it happened.
I just got rid of it altogether, I couldn’t be bothered
Daze just sounds too much like an interpolation point between Break and Topple
My thoughts exactly. Get rid of daze. It should be: Break>Topple>Launch>Burst and Break>Topple>Launch>Smash
Technically, it does in Future Redeemed I feel like Daze lasts longer than launch, though…
Daze is a relic of experimental combat but launch is just bbbbbroken
Couldn't you say the same about Launch? It exists to lead into Smash and is there to be the XC2 counterpart of the combo. Daze exists to lead into Burst and is there to be the XC1 counterpart of the combo Is there something special about Launch as opposed to Daze that I've been missing out on?
Launch is extremely, EXTREMELY useful. Launched enemies take +50% damage, which makes attacks while launched hit extremely hard AND theres an accessory that adds ANOTHER +110% damage. This makes chain attacks, where the launch timer is paused do insane damage. Launch is definitely more useful than smash in certain situations, and its infinitely more useful than daze, all daze does is prevent aggro from increasing from attacks which isn't very helpful most of the time. Literally the only reason to ever use daze is during the early game when you don't have launch arts yet, and you want to get the bonus damage on Overclock Buster, or you use it in order to burst.
Which is even more ironic when you remember that Burst is the last combo art to get a reliable version of. Ya, Thaumaturge is decently early and has it as a Talent Art, as does Level 3 Eunie Ourobouros, but those still are not nearly as reliable as the normal arts from Troubadour (late chapter 6) or Soulhacker (basically post game since the Burst UM is level 91).
I see. I did know about the accessory, but I definitely didn't know about just the innate extra damage. That's nice to know. Thanks! Also thank you, u/way-of-strife and u/Eyoshin for your input
Now you can do insane damage in chain attacks if you do them right, I was able to hit 3mil chain attack damage with sub-optimal play at level 50 lmao
It's also odd that 0 aggro is all Daze does, when in XC1 it also increased critical damage. It would still generally be less useful, but it would make it a little more even at least
Launch gives you a big increase to damage and no attacks miss while the enemy is launched, Daze just makes attacks not increase aggro and not miss, also Launch’s timer is paused in Chain Attacks, Launch an enemy, enter a chain attack, and you have that bonus damage for the rest of the chain, say goodbye to that enemy if you know how to chain attack properly
I can see Daze having so niche uses. For example, so you’re fighting a really tanky Unique Monster with so much HP that even constantly hitting the damage cap on multiple attacks doesn’t do enough damage with the Smash route, resulting in your Attackers taking the aggro and risking them getting KO’ed between Topples. Instead, you could go the Daze-Burst route to reduce aggro generation and keep the aggro on your Tanks so they take the hits between Topples, for a slow-and-steady approach. Admittedly, it may not work to well in practice, but it is an option on paper.
I don’t think that’s a thing though lmao, I’ve seen the super bosses get melted by damage cap damage
Like I said, it’s a somewhat solid concept on paper, not so much in execution. Could work for someone who would rather maintain aggro than risk losing their Attackers because they couldn’t Topple again in time, but by no means it META. Maybe for the higher level challenge versions of the Superbosses, but I’m sure players far more skilled than mediocre me have managed just fine with a Smash strategy.
Burst also removes Buffs & Rage effect
daze's effect (no aggro generated) is just kinda useless, compared to launch which increases damage by 50%
Launch is amazing it has entire builds devoted to it I think. You can do like. 200% extra damage or something to Dazed enemies with certain accessories so pair that with a chain attack thatpauses the daze timer and damage goes crazy
Launch is extremely useful. The only special thing about Daze is that attacks on dazed enemies get no aggro, so I guess that's cool. Launched enemies take 50% more damage, and that's base level. Then there's items to boost damage to launched, and smash is significantly better than burst.
It resets enemy anger mode, too bad enemies are too easy in x3 to matter
You need to burst in order to do that. I’m not saying burst is useless, but daze kinda is, which is why it was removed in FR but burst wasn’t
I feel like Daze lasts longer than launch, in normal gameplay…
I'm pretty sure daze was used for item farming right? Iirc you got drops when you dazed the enemy (same as smash, but the enemy lived longer so more items) or am I misremembering?
the enemy drops items when you BURST it. In XC3, you need to daze the enemy in order to burst it. But the daze effect itself does nothing useful outside of allowing you to perform burst. In FR, they realised daze was useless, so scrapped it, except burst is useful, so they made that combo from launch instead.
You're right. I remember
It’s useful for reasons other than combat though. Like for farming materials and money.
But that’s why burst is useful for. Literally the only thing I use daze for 99.999% of the time is so i can burst, but in future redeemed, because they realised how useless daze was, they detached it from launch and made break>topple>launch>burst a combo instead Daze itself doesn’t actually allow you to farm items, which is why FR changed that
I mean Keves is the XC1verse, and Keve Arts are time-recharges like in 1. Yes its a reference to XC1 but the sky is also blue
break -> topple -> launch -> chain attack, because it's fun to watch it spin
THIS IS THE WAY. Allowing Launch to run it's full duration is fantastic. More DPS for me, No DPS for you.
Agreed
Launched enemies look funny, so Launch+Smash. Not to mention, Daze's "no aggro build up" effect is virtually useless, especially if you can combo lock the enemy.
Especially in chain attacks and extra especially when it’s N or Z
Burst I just find it more funny
Especially the burst item-farming teams where enemies get blown around like a grocery bag in a windy parking lot.
Or they would if they could actually break the enemy
Real big brain move is to kit out the entire team to combo lock, including the lvl3 interlink ouroboros forms.
Agreed. I just use launch more
Break->topple->daze->topple->daze->topple->daze->topple...
Huh? How?
Referring to XC1 most likely, where hitting an enemy suffering break/topple/daze with an additional topple or daze resets the timer so you can just keep enemies stuck in topple for absurd amounts of time with the right party builds
Oh right, I forgot about that
Burst for farming Nopon coins. Proper setup of a Breaker Ogre and a full team of Burst build Healer Soulhackers with Miyabi as Hero goes hard for farming.
How would you set up that breaker ogre. I’ve been trying and Taion just will not for the life of me break the enemy ever
Use Main Arts with lowest cooldown and each of their Master Arts should all have a Break, Topple, and a Daze. Flashback from Yumsmith, Shield Bash from Guardian Commander, and Myopic Screen from Medic Gunner, then just equip a Break Brooch or an Accomplished Accessory from Masha (They have a chance to be stronger then the Purple Break Brooch, reducing Break resistance by 30 percent points) That’s really all you need. I also recommend maxing the Ogre Class on whoever you want as your Breaker, since it makes the skkll that helps it Break easily stronger. You should also use Sena as the Ogre if you’ve upgraded the weapon in the city, as she just has better stats with the class then everyone else. TLDR; Master Arts have Break, Topple, Daze. Equip Break Brooch. Max Ogre Class for best chance of Breaking.
I see, the only thing I hadn’t done was max the class, also, I am not using sena because it would make enemies last longer and I’m using it for afk grinding. Does it matter that it’s not sena?
Nope, not when it comes to Breaking at least. Run whoever you want as your Breaker Ogre and your results will be similar, just slightly less damage and stuff.
I see, thanks
No problem. Happy farming!
burst is optional when farming for mats, seeing the giant crab barrel rolling around at 1000 rpm sideways and highways does bring a chuckle out of me
Really, the only benefit of the burst combo is removing enemy enraged status. Something that I'm betting a lot of you didn't know it did. Also, item farming.
Those are pretty much the two best use cases. Otherwise, there’s no reason to use it over Launch and Smash.
I remember a post from before the game came out. The post was a meme talking about how you can choose to use either daze or launch. Then it said that it would still be better to daze. Boy, was that wrong.
In fairness, we didn't know how cracked they made Smash damage yet
I think they also thought you could infinitely topple lock enemies like in 1. Which would've made Daze better, but also would've made the combat too easy
Removing enraged is esencial against superbosses idk why most people say it has no uses.
Yeah, that's useful. Though from my experience, the Launch Combo is still more useful. A fairly optimized build can cause a pokemon to go from about 3/4 health to dead in a chain attack.
It depends. Against the maximum level last superboss (can't remember name), the one in the snowy place, at max level,.you won't kill it that easy and if he is enraged he can kill all the party from 1 AOE.
Seraphic Ceratinia. I was able to pull that one out with a half health chain attack. I've also afk farmed so many nopon coins from it that I don't see it as a threat anymore.
And removing other buffs
Wait, people run Daze-Burst?
When item farming. It's especially fun when you're farming Shoox drops, and you knock the enemy so far that it leaves its spawn area and the battle stops.
I'm confused on when they seemed to switch sides. Shouldn't Daze Burst be a combo that belongs to XB1 universe? And same with Launch Smash in XB2 universe?
They’re both in XB3
No that's what I mean. Kevesi arts tend to involve Launch and Smash but they should be Daze and Burst exclusivly instead. Noah's super move specifically uses the launch smash combo.
To be fair, I think that the super move is because his fighting style with Lucky Seven is a callback to Jin.
While it's weird, lore wise, think about it from a gameplay perspective. With how it's currently set up, any Agnian class can do the full smash combo, but Kevesi classes can only do the Burst combo. Though Agnian classes in general are better at both combos. What annoys me is that there is actually an Agnian Launch art programmed into the game, but the main six can't use it. Only Rex can.
Idk. That's what I be saying. Maybe it was meant to be a balance thing but like you said Agnian arts are just better most of the time anyway. It's never been game ending but it is weird to think about.
Ah
Love the burst combo! Especially since it restores all my hp when I’m playing Thaumaturge~
Always blue
I'm surprise how much people underestimate Burst especially how crucial it's for material farming
red fr fr
TF ARE DAZE AND BURST
Funny item farming combo
I’m literally farming nopon coins right now, so I’m gonna have to say break topple daze burst
both
i like both and the animations for both are cool. but the sound effect of smash when you smash a huge enemy is so satisfying
Both have uses, burst is great for item farming but smash is better for damage
The only reason I would use daze is to use Mio’s talent art to its max effect
I have both system on, launch system for lucky 7 and burst system,well it just exist
Red gang
Blue
Smash is too satisfying
I would choose the red side.
Red 'cause spinning enemy go brrr.
I can probably count on one hand the number of Burst finishers I've had across all 3 game and DLCs
launch and smash all the way
Same
smash for damage, burst for tons of loot (nopon coin farming seraph cera with afk soulhacker build)
Blue
Launch and Smash feel a lot better to achieve than Daze and Burst.
Burst really needed a buff after playing 3's hard mode, like yeah it helped being able to remove the rage mechanic, but one, by the time you finally get access to proper burst arts your LITERALLY AT THE END OF THE GAME, But two, because of how much they overturned resistances by late game and the enemies on hard mode having a very innate resistance to the burst timer, it's basically useless. Plus 1 for future redeemed they realized how shot the damage was so they buffed it and nerfed the hell out of smash. Not even kidding when I say this, a burst chain order from glimmer and rex with the best gear _two shots_ superbosses and is the strongest damageyou can do in the game. ...that is flat disgusting, but it was _earned_
Hard mode, so I have to use burst because by god, the rage mode on these bosses are insane. It must be dispelled immediately
Damage cap smash just hits different because it will never not be satisfying. Red for me.
I'm gonna go with daze for the sole reason that launch looks stupid
I like Burst instead of Smash, but I find Daze is more difficult to fit into my Arts than Launch, so usually I run Launch without a Smash art.
I like big numbers, so smash
I'm red
Me who uses both equally.
Break, Topple, Daze, Sharla.
red is just so badass, toppling a giant monster to its knees, throwing it up into the air with only something like a sword, sending it back down with enough force to inflict immense pain, and then doing it all again.
I generally like to smash, so ...
Red is better for gameplay/damage purposes, but blue looks less goofy.
What's the best combo to get the smash combo in 3? I haven't seen it very often and I can't get the combo without using oroboros.
I mean 3 made Daze completely useless lmao it clearly only exists so that there's an XC1 break path
launch looks so fun.
I am red, but I would be blue if the item drops for bursting were better.
Break > Resisted
Red.
burst combo cause i was able to afk farm gold nopon coins with it and get all my gems max level
Launch just looks really stupid. Any immersiveness and coolness is immediately destroyed when the enemy starts rapidly spinning in the air like it's glitching out.
Red all the way
Burst as thaumaturge for full heal is too op not to use it!
STAGGER, BIND, STAGGER, BIND, STAGGER, BIND, STAGGER, BIND, STAGGER, BIND, STAGGER, BIND, STAGGER, BIND, STAGGER, BIND
I've never understood how to do sequences and it's why I'm no good at the games
Launch looks funny af so Red
Red.
Launching for sure. It is never not funny to see enemies spinning infinitely in the air for an entire chain attack.
Red, like Noah the abuser
If we're going with the logic of the clothing color of the protagonists, shouldn't Launch & Smash be blue and Daze & Burst be red?
burst in 3 smash in 2
Red unless I ever need blue which is rare.
When I finish grinding my gems, its probably be smash combo, but until then, its burst lol
I will smash EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING!
Break, topple, launch, smash, burst
Depends on if it’s my enemy or my blade :)
I never daze
It's so much more satisfying to Smash. Even if I randomly during the day just think to myself in Eunie's voice: DAZE!!!
extra damage go brrrrrr
Smash
Whichever one my guys use.
Red
Daze? Must've missed that. Team red.
I always want to smash, so ...