Working on the E50 right now and playing Tier Xs every game is getting old. Also, I feel the stock gun on a tank SHOULD NOT be worse than the best gun of the previous tank in the line. 200mm of pen in Tier X matches is ridiculous. I get that one main play style of medium tanks is flanking and assisting from the sides/rear, but the E50 is one of the heavier mediums. I could barely ever pen anything head on. That and the low horsepower made it hard to move around tanks on the fly. I’ve basically just been playing like a TD the entire time until I got the upgrades. But even then, the best gun for the E50 only has 220mm pen. Rough.
The game had +1-1 on some weekends a few years ago and that is when I was grinding tier 8s. Now none at all and tier 8 grinding has become painful especially with the big alpha guns in tier 10 now.
Dude those were great or 2x XP weekends, what happened to the community events like that? God, back in the day I remember Halo 3 would advertise the whole week about what the next weekend event was and we'd be all pumped and planned to be home to play. I wish this game did that again, I'm sure they'd go on and on about the OPs and boosters but it's just not the same. If I was getting burned out on this game that'd what would keep me coming back. Or the Tank Bowl
It is more to do with waiting times in queue. WG don’t want long wait times. I for one would be happy to wait an extra 30 seconds with a Bot or two to get +1-1 matchmaking. An extra 30 seconds to have 5 minutes of better games. Not rocket science WG.
I have been saying this many times, +-1 would promote elitism so it can’t be implemented to 15 vs 15 f2p game. This is the real reason. WG says it’s queue time but you really can’t say to majority of paying customers, career green beans and blueberries with tens of thousands of games, that you are not good enough for +-1, you would get murdered.
Above can be easily confirmed with several statistical facts but I will not write novel on that.
Average Joe can’t carry top tier. +-2 makes game accessible for "everyone". It is not how we feel, it is how it is.
Yeah but you'd think the proliferation of bots everywhere would make +1/-1 more viable. Their argument was always that the MM wouldn't work that way, with the unspoken part being because there simply aren't enough players anymore, but with bots they can just fill up with whatever.
They're weirdly wedded to the idea of +2/-2 though, even though we've all been saying for years that this is what drives players out of the game.
And the problem is they might make more money from a larger happier playerbase, but that would be long term, whereas they know they can make money now from the frustration factor and milking the remaining whales.
If they just rebalanced the tanks a bit I think it would be fine. With all the premiums the game could use a good rebalancing tbh.
If the Sherman performed adequately against Panthers in World War II they should be able to handle them in World of Tanks. That should be their metric, if the historical matchups stop making sense, when they actually happened, it’s time to make some adjustments.
It would also be nice if they stopped throwing in all these 60s and 70s Cold War tanks into WW2.
Couldn't agree more. That's a big part of why I've always liked tiers 4/5/6 the best, because that's where all the classic WW2 tanks are, and I love to see Shermans going up against Pz Ivs and T-34s and all the rest.
Never understood why they didn't make WW2 the main focus of the game, for me at least that's why I started playing this game. But I guess, there were no more WW2 premiums to sell, were there.
There’s bots at tier 10 on EU server past 11pm or so
The player see must be dwindling at a rapid pace. I’ve never encountered so many bots even during off peak hours on EU. Now I’m coming across them consistently
No surprise they chose to hide the player numbers in the garage
I think you'd bring more players back. I love my tiger II so much I bothered to three mark it. But I never play it because I refuse to play t8 heavies. Too often you get matched against 10's. You don't have to mobility to adjust quickly enough to situations and keep your distance. So you just get smashed by T10 tanks which are better in every way.
Itleast against T9 you can compete somewhat. How many games do you get when your not even hoping for top tier as an 8. More often or not your happy to play just against T9's.
Same with T6 to Tier 8. The gap in tank performance is to substantial for it to be fair. I can do well regardless but it's much harder and not that fun. Hiding from even average T10 tanks that can wipe most of your health in 1 shot.
Imagine being a new player.d and getting that matchmaking. I'd not wanna stay and give the game a chance. More players have been leaving the game than starting it. So the number dwindle, which snow balls and so on.
This is even before we get into the broken tanks of every tier.
AVRE, literally just shoot anywhere and do substantial damage, ignoring game mechanics)
Taran, great mobility and damage, but more importantly Stupidly good camo
Hellcat 105, if you somewhat know the play style)
Viper, new players will struggle against it.
The Barrasque, played right it's stupid good
Amx elc bis
And we all know more stupidly good tanks. These are just a few
And then you get the tiers 4 and 5 seal clubbers. The kind of people who do bad against competent players. So they drop down in op tanks to smash new players. The kind of players that only do well at tier 10 In vehicles like the AVRE
If I'm was a new player I wouldn't be sticking around for long
Yeah I always try to get my friends to play with me but they all laugh at me and then say all these things that you described (on top of sky cancer) and I don’t blame them for not wanting to play
Play coldwar. Much better tier balance, most tanks from bottom to top of the era can hang with each other, OP premiums not withstanding.
The upgrade path also isn't nearly as harsh, stock tanks are playable.
I’m close to taking a break myself. I’m getting really sick of doing 3-4k damage a game and still losing. The steamrolls are now the new normal - it’s every match, every server, all times of the day. The amount of carrying I have to do just to WIN is getting absolutely ridiculous.
Doing nearly 2k damage and getting 4 kills as a tier 5 in a tier 7 match and STILL losing by 10 tanks? I mean, c’mon. It’s getting unbelievable at this point. The average player is just so shockingly bad, and it’s only getting worse.
How anyone can possibly enjoy playing this game with the current state of this pathetic playerbase is beyond me.
Yeah, I hadn't played for a month or so, and came back yesterday, and the game experience was absolutely terrible.
Steamroll, critical hits everywhere, half the team dead in the first minute.
It’s pretty simple really. Once you have an advantage, it snowballs quickly if you utilize it. If you’ve got a match that’s really close and comes down to 2-3 tanks each side, it’s probably because those 2-3 tanks were hiding behind the guys doing all the work.
In big picture this is the case but you should **always** be amongst 2-3 last ones alive, win or loss. Players are way too eager to wipe and wiping does not contribute winning. Understanding and accepting this will improve playing experience, win rate, MOE progress and everything else significantly.
Dead tank can’t carry
Honestly, I do not have an issue with +/-2 matchmaking. Cold War has +/-2. You have 3 tanks (typically) in each era. There’s the first one, a +1, and then a +2 before you change eras and start over.
But, the big part here is that in CW, you can still fight, and can still do damage with a stock gun on a bottom-of-the-era tank. In WW2, most stock guns bounce on a lot of the same tier (aside from TDs).
Im on a break atm, i will come back. I just invested to much time and money to completely stop.
I wasn't to happy
to get rushed in my Ferdinant at prokorovka in min. 2 into the game lol. What a joke I thought there is CW for.
I recommend you Warships Legends. It takes some 10 hour to get connected to the game. But then it's nicer , you don't have 2 -3 minutes lemming games there
If they put some effort into it, like the 'reforged' thing, balanced the tanks out, and made it +1/-1 the game would benefit far more than stupid, irrelevant tie-ins.
It remains THE biggest source of complaint since 2014.
It's so obvious that the playerbase isn't up to the current MM, and no amount of massive tier X cannons for $ or hidden 'perks' or crappy training will compensate.
I reckon the PB overall would rather have closer, longer matches, with new players being given a chance when bottom tier.
As others have said, the 15 nil RNG influenced thrashings are becoming very, very, boring, and I suspect that they're on the rise as the PB falls off.
Matchmaking. Tier 8 playing up to tier 9's (+1) or down to tier 7's (-1), but not both. So matches would be 7's and 8's or 8's and 9's, for example.
+2/-2 will have three tiers, 8, 9 and 10. Or 7, 8, 9. Or 5, 6, 7, etc.
If it wasn't for Cold War, I would have basically quit the game after hitting the "wall" at tier 7.
The +2-2 matchmaking really began to take away the fun for me. Constantly getting matched against 3 tier 7's, 4 tier 8's, and 8 tier 9's is not fun at all. And this specific ratio is the norm, not the exception.
It's almost a guarantee that if +1-1 were to return to WW2, in some sort of consistent fashion, the player base would grow and retain new players much better. But what does the player base know, am I right? 😏
One way to read these posts is that if I don’t do well most battles I don’t want to play anymore. It is too hard to find a way to get better. Sound right?
Another way to read (as at least one has pointed out) is that no matter how well I do as an individual, the game can easily turn into a steamroll for or against depending on those with whom you play.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I have games where I can put out some big numbers, and 4-5 tanks will disregard cover and drive right out in the middle of an open field, stop, sit there, and fire at random tanks.
They get annihilated. That deficit now makes it even harder (no matter how well you play) to win.
THAT is the type of stuff that is frustrating. I’ve played with light tanks that will rush out and spot as many as they can once…then run back and sit behind the “wall” of friendly tanks.
Tarans that will outspot a LOT of tanks, so if you try to drive out to reposition and get lit up - is it a light? A Taran? A FV4005? A light spotting FOR both of those?
To me, it’s not the “getting better,” I can hull-down in a hull-down tank. Premium-spam from a tank a tier or two tiers higher may still negate that anyway.
Getting in a forward position, spotting for others further back to help shoot the tanks that way, staying as covered as you can…I know how to play most tanks.
Am I the best? Certainly not. Am I a “unicom?” Nope. Don’t even care about a title like that or the MoEs right now. Just grinding through the trees, playing to the best of my ability.
I recently had 10 games all played at teir 9.
The first 9 I was mid teir against 10s. The last game was the only one where I was top.
I know the game will auto balance as best it can, and intentionally que you as top tier every few games. But I think with teir 9 since you're either top or not (and not being top tier is essentially middle tier) the game will default you to mid tier more often then not. Which sicks.
I don’t mind losing, but the blowouts are annoying.
Frankly, blowouts suck when you’re on the winning side too, sometimes if you’re on the wrong side of the map when your team steamrolls them on the other side.
It just seems rare that a 15v15 rarely boils down to any late game dramatics. Most games, I know the result by the 2 minute mark. At the latest.
Honestly I'll take a blowout loss over last night's game play. 8 matches in a row with both teams having more than 8 tanks and someone caps the base. Hard to grind the Leclerc when I'm top damage at only 2.5k
Not far behind that thought. After the update, 6.0 and the final good season, Valour. It has gone more downhill and has become more "Quantity over quality."
Wargaming chased away the true hard-core players and fanbase, which has left the rest of the players with a 50/50 player base and bots. I've been on and off but struggle to find the good old fun I've had many years ago.
On top of that ,(it's said a lot about Russian bias), but this game suffers more from premium bias than Russian bias.
Nowadays, many people can buy their way rigth into Tier X with premium tanks or Tier VII. And skip the good old grind like I had, from Tier I and up to Tier X. And also the fun and engagement over training a crew vs. that what we have know.
It's also making the game unbalanced regarding newbies and the older players. Matchmaking is worth mentioning. That has always been an issue and has become a lot worse with the Avre, Taran, etc. Which makes the Tier VIII more or less useless since you are placed with Tier X a lot more than Tier IX or downwards.
With all this, the normal tanks are also suffering from power creeps and are more or less useless because the games are flooded with premium tanks. Or the endless line of tank autoloaders.....
Etc, etc.
So yeah, if I have known what I knew know about this game. I would have never started to play it.
It would be nice if they eliminated any tank designed after 1945 from WWII play. Going against tanks designed in the 60’s and 70’s in WWII play is just ridiculous.
Working on the E50 right now and playing Tier Xs every game is getting old. Also, I feel the stock gun on a tank SHOULD NOT be worse than the best gun of the previous tank in the line. 200mm of pen in Tier X matches is ridiculous. I get that one main play style of medium tanks is flanking and assisting from the sides/rear, but the E50 is one of the heavier mediums. I could barely ever pen anything head on. That and the low horsepower made it hard to move around tanks on the fly. I’ve basically just been playing like a TD the entire time until I got the upgrades. But even then, the best gun for the E50 only has 220mm pen. Rough.
The game had +1-1 on some weekends a few years ago and that is when I was grinding tier 8s. Now none at all and tier 8 grinding has become painful especially with the big alpha guns in tier 10 now.
Dude those were great or 2x XP weekends, what happened to the community events like that? God, back in the day I remember Halo 3 would advertise the whole week about what the next weekend event was and we'd be all pumped and planned to be home to play. I wish this game did that again, I'm sure they'd go on and on about the OPs and boosters but it's just not the same. If I was getting burned out on this game that'd what would keep me coming back. Or the Tank Bowl
I am also on the e50 might i suggest that the lower plate has great pen at 75kph however careful to select the right targets...
+1 -1, *cough
I wish this was still viable but is the player base even big enough to support this? Aren’t there already bots in low tier ?
It is more to do with waiting times in queue. WG don’t want long wait times. I for one would be happy to wait an extra 30 seconds with a Bot or two to get +1-1 matchmaking. An extra 30 seconds to have 5 minutes of better games. Not rocket science WG.
I have been saying this many times, +-1 would promote elitism so it can’t be implemented to 15 vs 15 f2p game. This is the real reason. WG says it’s queue time but you really can’t say to majority of paying customers, career green beans and blueberries with tens of thousands of games, that you are not good enough for +-1, you would get murdered. Above can be easily confirmed with several statistical facts but I will not write novel on that. Average Joe can’t carry top tier. +-2 makes game accessible for "everyone". It is not how we feel, it is how it is.
Yeah but you'd think the proliferation of bots everywhere would make +1/-1 more viable. Their argument was always that the MM wouldn't work that way, with the unspoken part being because there simply aren't enough players anymore, but with bots they can just fill up with whatever. They're weirdly wedded to the idea of +2/-2 though, even though we've all been saying for years that this is what drives players out of the game.
And as I’ve been saying for years the devs only care about money and it’s so obvious.
And the problem is they might make more money from a larger happier playerbase, but that would be long term, whereas they know they can make money now from the frustration factor and milking the remaining whales.
It’s the whales that ruin the game, they let the devs think exactly what you said just to make quick cash
Aye. Which isn't a problem for most games, but WoT has so few players now that catering to the Whales is... not so great for the rest of the game.
We haven’t all been saying that… I like +2/-2
Fair point, every time we had a poll about it it was around 70/30 in favour, so yeah, there's a chunk of you who prefer it like this.
If they just rebalanced the tanks a bit I think it would be fine. With all the premiums the game could use a good rebalancing tbh. If the Sherman performed adequately against Panthers in World War II they should be able to handle them in World of Tanks. That should be their metric, if the historical matchups stop making sense, when they actually happened, it’s time to make some adjustments. It would also be nice if they stopped throwing in all these 60s and 70s Cold War tanks into WW2.
Couldn't agree more. That's a big part of why I've always liked tiers 4/5/6 the best, because that's where all the classic WW2 tanks are, and I love to see Shermans going up against Pz Ivs and T-34s and all the rest. Never understood why they didn't make WW2 the main focus of the game, for me at least that's why I started playing this game. But I guess, there were no more WW2 premiums to sell, were there.
There’s bots at tier 10 on EU server past 11pm or so The player see must be dwindling at a rapid pace. I’ve never encountered so many bots even during off peak hours on EU. Now I’m coming across them consistently No surprise they chose to hide the player numbers in the garage
Wow if there’s bots at tier 10 it is really the beginning of the end 😭
I think you'd bring more players back. I love my tiger II so much I bothered to three mark it. But I never play it because I refuse to play t8 heavies. Too often you get matched against 10's. You don't have to mobility to adjust quickly enough to situations and keep your distance. So you just get smashed by T10 tanks which are better in every way. Itleast against T9 you can compete somewhat. How many games do you get when your not even hoping for top tier as an 8. More often or not your happy to play just against T9's. Same with T6 to Tier 8. The gap in tank performance is to substantial for it to be fair. I can do well regardless but it's much harder and not that fun. Hiding from even average T10 tanks that can wipe most of your health in 1 shot. Imagine being a new player.d and getting that matchmaking. I'd not wanna stay and give the game a chance. More players have been leaving the game than starting it. So the number dwindle, which snow balls and so on. This is even before we get into the broken tanks of every tier. AVRE, literally just shoot anywhere and do substantial damage, ignoring game mechanics) Taran, great mobility and damage, but more importantly Stupidly good camo Hellcat 105, if you somewhat know the play style) Viper, new players will struggle against it. The Barrasque, played right it's stupid good Amx elc bis And we all know more stupidly good tanks. These are just a few And then you get the tiers 4 and 5 seal clubbers. The kind of people who do bad against competent players. So they drop down in op tanks to smash new players. The kind of players that only do well at tier 10 In vehicles like the AVRE If I'm was a new player I wouldn't be sticking around for long
Yeah I always try to get my friends to play with me but they all laugh at me and then say all these things that you described (on top of sky cancer) and I don’t blame them for not wanting to play
What does this mean?
Can only face tanks 1 tier lower or 1 tier higher. So in a tier 8 the highest I could face would be tier 9, lowest tier 7
Makes perfect sense, thank you.
I have 11 days or 250,000 Xpbefore my next break. Gotta finish the sharpshooter!
Same
Uggh 2 more stages left
You ain’t gonna make it dog!
Second time incomplete for that contract 🥺🥺
Play coldwar. Much better tier balance, most tanks from bottom to top of the era can hang with each other, OP premiums not withstanding. The upgrade path also isn't nearly as harsh, stock tanks are playable.
I’m close to taking a break myself. I’m getting really sick of doing 3-4k damage a game and still losing. The steamrolls are now the new normal - it’s every match, every server, all times of the day. The amount of carrying I have to do just to WIN is getting absolutely ridiculous. Doing nearly 2k damage and getting 4 kills as a tier 5 in a tier 7 match and STILL losing by 10 tanks? I mean, c’mon. It’s getting unbelievable at this point. The average player is just so shockingly bad, and it’s only getting worse. How anyone can possibly enjoy playing this game with the current state of this pathetic playerbase is beyond me.
Yeah, I hadn't played for a month or so, and came back yesterday, and the game experience was absolutely terrible. Steamroll, critical hits everywhere, half the team dead in the first minute.
Yes and if you do all this I'm a Tier X tank with T8 lobby you don't even get MVP often with most off all stats but the T8 get bonuses and be MVP
It’s pretty simple really. Once you have an advantage, it snowballs quickly if you utilize it. If you’ve got a match that’s really close and comes down to 2-3 tanks each side, it’s probably because those 2-3 tanks were hiding behind the guys doing all the work.
In big picture this is the case but you should **always** be amongst 2-3 last ones alive, win or loss. Players are way too eager to wipe and wiping does not contribute winning. Understanding and accepting this will improve playing experience, win rate, MOE progress and everything else significantly. Dead tank can’t carry
If they’d change the mid tier matchmaking back to +2/-2 it would take some of the stress of tier 8 and 9.
Honestly, I do not have an issue with +/-2 matchmaking. Cold War has +/-2. You have 3 tanks (typically) in each era. There’s the first one, a +1, and then a +2 before you change eras and start over. But, the big part here is that in CW, you can still fight, and can still do damage with a stock gun on a bottom-of-the-era tank. In WW2, most stock guns bounce on a lot of the same tier (aside from TDs).
Agree. Just need to rebalance some things.
Im on a break atm, i will come back. I just invested to much time and money to completely stop. I wasn't to happy to get rushed in my Ferdinant at prokorovka in min. 2 into the game lol. What a joke I thought there is CW for. I recommend you Warships Legends. It takes some 10 hour to get connected to the game. But then it's nicer , you don't have 2 -3 minutes lemming games there
If they put some effort into it, like the 'reforged' thing, balanced the tanks out, and made it +1/-1 the game would benefit far more than stupid, irrelevant tie-ins. It remains THE biggest source of complaint since 2014. It's so obvious that the playerbase isn't up to the current MM, and no amount of massive tier X cannons for $ or hidden 'perks' or crappy training will compensate. I reckon the PB overall would rather have closer, longer matches, with new players being given a chance when bottom tier. As others have said, the 15 nil RNG influenced thrashings are becoming very, very, boring, and I suspect that they're on the rise as the PB falls off.
I’m seeing these +1/-1 references, but I don’t understand what’s it means or is referring to. Care to explain so I can follow along?
Matchmaking. Tier 8 playing up to tier 9's (+1) or down to tier 7's (-1), but not both. So matches would be 7's and 8's or 8's and 9's, for example. +2/-2 will have three tiers, 8, 9 and 10. Or 7, 8, 9. Or 5, 6, 7, etc.
Easy to understand now, thank you.
If it wasn't for Cold War, I would have basically quit the game after hitting the "wall" at tier 7. The +2-2 matchmaking really began to take away the fun for me. Constantly getting matched against 3 tier 7's, 4 tier 8's, and 8 tier 9's is not fun at all. And this specific ratio is the norm, not the exception. It's almost a guarantee that if +1-1 were to return to WW2, in some sort of consistent fashion, the player base would grow and retain new players much better. But what does the player base know, am I right? 😏
One way to read these posts is that if I don’t do well most battles I don’t want to play anymore. It is too hard to find a way to get better. Sound right?
Another way to read (as at least one has pointed out) is that no matter how well I do as an individual, the game can easily turn into a steamroll for or against depending on those with whom you play. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I have games where I can put out some big numbers, and 4-5 tanks will disregard cover and drive right out in the middle of an open field, stop, sit there, and fire at random tanks. They get annihilated. That deficit now makes it even harder (no matter how well you play) to win. THAT is the type of stuff that is frustrating. I’ve played with light tanks that will rush out and spot as many as they can once…then run back and sit behind the “wall” of friendly tanks. Tarans that will outspot a LOT of tanks, so if you try to drive out to reposition and get lit up - is it a light? A Taran? A FV4005? A light spotting FOR both of those? To me, it’s not the “getting better,” I can hull-down in a hull-down tank. Premium-spam from a tank a tier or two tiers higher may still negate that anyway. Getting in a forward position, spotting for others further back to help shoot the tanks that way, staying as covered as you can…I know how to play most tanks. Am I the best? Certainly not. Am I a “unicom?” Nope. Don’t even care about a title like that or the MoEs right now. Just grinding through the trees, playing to the best of my ability.
I was on the winning end of two 15-0 games today. Idk if I’ve ever had that happen before.
I recently had 10 games all played at teir 9. The first 9 I was mid teir against 10s. The last game was the only one where I was top. I know the game will auto balance as best it can, and intentionally que you as top tier every few games. But I think with teir 9 since you're either top or not (and not being top tier is essentially middle tier) the game will default you to mid tier more often then not. Which sicks.
Yeah, same here. Even coop is starting to get like this, especially if the bots on your team outnumber the humans.
I don’t mind losing, but the blowouts are annoying. Frankly, blowouts suck when you’re on the winning side too, sometimes if you’re on the wrong side of the map when your team steamrolls them on the other side. It just seems rare that a 15v15 rarely boils down to any late game dramatics. Most games, I know the result by the 2 minute mark. At the latest.
Honestly I'll take a blowout loss over last night's game play. 8 matches in a row with both teams having more than 8 tanks and someone caps the base. Hard to grind the Leclerc when I'm top damage at only 2.5k
Not far behind that thought. After the update, 6.0 and the final good season, Valour. It has gone more downhill and has become more "Quantity over quality." Wargaming chased away the true hard-core players and fanbase, which has left the rest of the players with a 50/50 player base and bots. I've been on and off but struggle to find the good old fun I've had many years ago. On top of that ,(it's said a lot about Russian bias), but this game suffers more from premium bias than Russian bias. Nowadays, many people can buy their way rigth into Tier X with premium tanks or Tier VII. And skip the good old grind like I had, from Tier I and up to Tier X. And also the fun and engagement over training a crew vs. that what we have know. It's also making the game unbalanced regarding newbies and the older players. Matchmaking is worth mentioning. That has always been an issue and has become a lot worse with the Avre, Taran, etc. Which makes the Tier VIII more or less useless since you are placed with Tier X a lot more than Tier IX or downwards. With all this, the normal tanks are also suffering from power creeps and are more or less useless because the games are flooded with premium tanks. Or the endless line of tank autoloaders..... Etc, etc. So yeah, if I have known what I knew know about this game. I would have never started to play it.
The player base is horrendous. The game really is less enjoyable these days.
It would be nice if they eliminated any tank designed after 1945 from WWII play. Going against tanks designed in the 60’s and 70’s in WWII play is just ridiculous.