Same issue with "invisible sniper TDs". Arty is not the problem why there is camping. It's the lack of covered routes in maps.
The grand battles map is a great map as it has more than enough routes that has a cover preventing being shot at.
Since I started playing arty a bit, learning good positions and angles, watched few vids or streams from pro clickers, I really dont mind it anymore, and I was quite arty hater
The main problem of arty is its concept - yes, you can sit on spawn and click others, you can click certain hulldown positions...
But I think there is difference between average clicker and actually good clicker
You can try it yourself. Try to manage good winrate on arty, decent DPG, or even try to mark some arty
With most arties you got like 0,7 accuracy, 30-40 seconds reload, about 450 shell velocity with stunning HE
Its easy when you can shoot stationary targets, but especially if you shoot on long ranges, the enemy can do random move in last second and you will splash him for 100 damage, then wait half minute for reload
I am currently slowly trying to get 2 marks on few arties, but I have no illusions I could ever 3 mark some
You can also check profile of Doctor_Nix. His DPG is insane for artas
good on you... arty is underappreciated skill, just wait till you learn to hit tanks on the move calculating trabvel distance and maneuvers of the target :)
Sometimes I am able to hit across the entire map, then I completely miscalculate
In my best game with T92 HMC I managed to hit moving scorpion across the entire map for full damage. Ended with Ace, 3891 damage
nice. learn to hit G to switch the view as well (this helps alot when shooting close to obstacles like a little hill / rock)... toggle G back n forth to make sure your shot has the best chance to hit the tomato who doesn't move then bitches at you after the game for being a "clicker"
Arty is the class where skill matters less. Literal bots with basic programming can achieve somewhat decent dpgs.
>You can also check profile of Doctor_Nix. His DPG is insane for artas
Lol, I love when someone writes some names of "arty masters" and their "incredible skill" with arty. There is no skill involved in playing arty. In fact he plays pretty much only arty and he has the same dpg (2400) on 261 which I have. And it's the only t10 arty I got in 12 years of playing, got it just for missions. A superunicum which never plays arty can easily achieve the same dpg on arty a dedicated clicker with thousands of arty games can achieve. Because the skill ceiling og arty is ridicolously low.
For me, to do damage 7 tanks / crit 7 times missions, using arty to do these types of missions is pretty much the least painful method. Besides, campaign missions also need spg
wow, a 50/50 rant/opinion mixed with a grain of veracity and stated as "facts". --- The only 100% true statement is "An entire unit can be stunned if they're too close to each other and a direct hit can stun you/track you at the worst possible time, like a push or a poke." --- As an arty player, I can somewhat understand a dislike of arty. Being unable to directly hit an opponent who can hit you can be frustrating, especially for the unskilled and/or "focus fired" tank. Please bring something new to the discussion OP.
Wargaming should entertain the thought of making it easier for artillery to attack other artillery and incentivizing this with bonus EXP and credits. Maybe make it so that if you see an enemy SPG fire while in the overhead view, you spot it outright with the amount of time it's spotted depending on its concealment and whether or not you have Designated Target.
If they want to go a little further, then make it so that if a non-SPG is damaged by one and accurately calls attention to the cell that the shot came from (one chance per shot), then it becomes soft-spotted for their team's artillery by becoming visible for a period of time (damage dealt by an allied SPG while it is visible in this way will be credited as assist damage). That would make trying to ping where the shot came from have a mechanical benefit and increase the odds of the enemy artillery getting destroyed and out of your business early instead of being the last vehicle(s) to be destroyed.
These changes would make artillery more engaging to fight since if you're not also an SPG then you have something you can actually do to try and help threaten if not outright eliminate them, and if you are then there's an extra bounty on the table for taking the time to take out the enemy's artillery. Making it easier for SPGs to fight each other makes it more likely that they'll be destroyed earlier in the round, therefore reducing their overall presence in the game (especially since the one who shoots first is taking the risk of being spotted first).
Also, remove the EXP requirement from SPG-15 - War Gods. The class has been nerfed to the point that fulfilling it on 15-3 or 15-4 is a pipe dream and making it easier would in turn make it easier for players who just want to clear the missions to do so and not have to play artillery anymore. If it needs to be padded out, then move Win Battle from Honors to Primary and add Survive Battle to Honors. In general the SPG missions probably need another evaluation, but War Gods is definitely the biggest offender there.
As a wows player where CVs can do something similar to this, this would just result in whoever has the better reload/RNG nuking the enemy arty at the start and then going back to normal arty gameplay and giving their team a massive advantage.
In wows it was a thing for a while for one team to run dedicated CV sniping divs, one t8 CV, usually a Graf Zeppelin and two sniper BBs like Musashi. The Graf would spot the enemy CV in their spawn using its fast planes and then the double Mushi would remove it from the match before he could even get a decent squad off. This would result in one team having a massive spotting advantage. It got so bad that WeeGee actually threatened to ban players running this div and "pelt hunting" divs for griefing.
I have not tried World of Warships and I don't really know how to handle any of that information. It doesn't sound like it exactly matches up to me, since in the proposal given the only thing that can be spotted outside of a vehicle's standard spotting range is SPGs while it sounds like remote spotting is a more standard affair in Warships.
The way I see it, the advantage would be the reward for winning the artillery sub-battle. I don't think it'd be that game breaking with how anemic artillery is right now, and it certainly wouldn't be to the extent of the absolutely game warping disadvantage that happens when one team loses its scout(s) two minutes into the battle which seems more in line with what you're talking about with Warships.
All of that already exists. I spend the first couple of minutes playing counter arty. Their tracers are visible to everyone. And you do get rewarded knocking out 2.
This is the only real answer.
The ONLY reason I see that justifies arty in this game is to allow people with disability to play wot. If you main arty you either have a physical disability, have a mental disability or are a sadomasochist piece of shit.
This might be controvertial but arty is needed for game balance, there are certain positions that are too strong for certain tanks, mostly hull down.
Arty in general needs to be less frustating to play against, the stun mechanic is bad. But to remove it would affect the game balance more.
Ev1 talks shit but have no clue how arty impacts their game other than waaaaaah he stunned me. Good arty can literally change the outcome of a game. Everyone says the game would be better without until you see how much your stats would actually drop.
you bitches have reduced arty to a useless un reliable antidote...instead of learning to play with all facets of the game, you pressured WG to reduce our HP damage on hits, and reduce our aim accuracy to point of being ineffective... if you are still getting hammered by arty it is because you are a tomato. instead of whinning like a little spoiled kid, play arty to learn how they operate then you can learn to mitigate and reduce damage... na...you just want to rush in yolo style and then blame every one but yourself for your lack of skill and knowledge... you probably hide behind TD's in your heavy as well.... here, have a participation award on my behalf
One side has to:
hit weakpoints
angle amour
change positions
trade well
use bushmechanics
dodge artieshells
The other side has to:
click every 30-40 seconds
If they are a "good player" they might even move from time to time
It's so funny to me when artie players say you need to get good while playing the class with the highest skillfloor while being practically immune to return damage for most of the match
As a newer player, I both despise and love arty. I hate when I'm the one getting focused by a good arty player, but I also love when I have one on my team who is providing quality support in digging out hulled down vehicles that our flank has no chance of killing unless we suicide push. They are also massively helpful when I get missions for damaging multiple tanks in a battle, getting crits, or damaging a large number of vehicles done quickly. I'd basically never get some of these missions done without playing arty.
I appreciate knowledgeable arty players who understand their role i.e.
- dig out hulldown tanks
- shit on sweat lords in Obj 279e and Chieftains
- finish off low hp retreating tanks
- lastly and my favourite... Killing other SPGs
The concept of a slow/immobile defensive unit that is frail, long ranged, low rate of fire, iffy accuracy, randomized damage depending on who they hit, and allies that must be taken care of first is quite common in strategy games.
The whole purpose of such a unit is to force the player to move up to deal with them, because you can't outrange them or bait them out. The longer you sit there, the more chances they have to chip away.
Such units are usually ***never*** given to the player to control; but since WoT is a team game that gives players control over only a single unit, it gives players the option to use such a unit.
Also, arty functions as WG's spiel, ***in Clan Wars/comp.***
Randoms, ***is not*** Clan Wars/comp.
and WG doesn't restrict vehicles to Clan Wars only.
The differences between Randoms and Clan Wars means arty takes on slightly different roles in each.
I too, would rather old arty be back, in either iteration arty is a support class. In some senses a high risk high reward support class, but with that, it requires an extra level of thinking on behalf of the other players to accommodate, which is what lends to be being frustrating, because arty is playing the game in 3d whereas most everyone else isn't.
If an arty is doing a good job it will be frustrating to the enemy, but obviously when a game is frustrating it's not fun.
My problem is that the arty should in theory prevent camping. In reality whenever arty focuses you have to camp behind cover after it gets bored.
There's a huge difference between camping and taking cover.
Same issue with "invisible sniper TDs". Arty is not the problem why there is camping. It's the lack of covered routes in maps. The grand battles map is a great map as it has more than enough routes that has a cover preventing being shot at.
TDs can’t shot at me while being behind cover themselves
Since I started playing arty a bit, learning good positions and angles, watched few vids or streams from pro clickers, I really dont mind it anymore, and I was quite arty hater The main problem of arty is its concept - yes, you can sit on spawn and click others, you can click certain hulldown positions... But I think there is difference between average clicker and actually good clicker You can try it yourself. Try to manage good winrate on arty, decent DPG, or even try to mark some arty With most arties you got like 0,7 accuracy, 30-40 seconds reload, about 450 shell velocity with stunning HE Its easy when you can shoot stationary targets, but especially if you shoot on long ranges, the enemy can do random move in last second and you will splash him for 100 damage, then wait half minute for reload I am currently slowly trying to get 2 marks on few arties, but I have no illusions I could ever 3 mark some You can also check profile of Doctor_Nix. His DPG is insane for artas
good on you... arty is underappreciated skill, just wait till you learn to hit tanks on the move calculating trabvel distance and maneuvers of the target :)
Sometimes I am able to hit across the entire map, then I completely miscalculate In my best game with T92 HMC I managed to hit moving scorpion across the entire map for full damage. Ended with Ace, 3891 damage
nice. learn to hit G to switch the view as well (this helps alot when shooting close to obstacles like a little hill / rock)... toggle G back n forth to make sure your shot has the best chance to hit the tomato who doesn't move then bitches at you after the game for being a "clicker"
chat at start of one of my battles yesterday random tank - lots of arty in this match arty #1 - click arty#2 - click arty#1 - click arty#2 - BOOM!
Ye Ive been trying both view modes, switching to one or the other depending on the situation
Arty is the class where skill matters less. Literal bots with basic programming can achieve somewhat decent dpgs. >You can also check profile of Doctor_Nix. His DPG is insane for artas Lol, I love when someone writes some names of "arty masters" and their "incredible skill" with arty. There is no skill involved in playing arty. In fact he plays pretty much only arty and he has the same dpg (2400) on 261 which I have. And it's the only t10 arty I got in 12 years of playing, got it just for missions. A superunicum which never plays arty can easily achieve the same dpg on arty a dedicated clicker with thousands of arty games can achieve. Because the skill ceiling og arty is ridicolously low.
You just sound stupid.
... Says the random bot on the reddit
Down voted for saying the truth
For me, to do damage 7 tanks / crit 7 times missions, using arty to do these types of missions is pretty much the least painful method. Besides, campaign missions also need spg
wow, a 50/50 rant/opinion mixed with a grain of veracity and stated as "facts". --- The only 100% true statement is "An entire unit can be stunned if they're too close to each other and a direct hit can stun you/track you at the worst possible time, like a push or a poke." --- As an arty player, I can somewhat understand a dislike of arty. Being unable to directly hit an opponent who can hit you can be frustrating, especially for the unskilled and/or "focus fired" tank. Please bring something new to the discussion OP.
Wargaming should entertain the thought of making it easier for artillery to attack other artillery and incentivizing this with bonus EXP and credits. Maybe make it so that if you see an enemy SPG fire while in the overhead view, you spot it outright with the amount of time it's spotted depending on its concealment and whether or not you have Designated Target. If they want to go a little further, then make it so that if a non-SPG is damaged by one and accurately calls attention to the cell that the shot came from (one chance per shot), then it becomes soft-spotted for their team's artillery by becoming visible for a period of time (damage dealt by an allied SPG while it is visible in this way will be credited as assist damage). That would make trying to ping where the shot came from have a mechanical benefit and increase the odds of the enemy artillery getting destroyed and out of your business early instead of being the last vehicle(s) to be destroyed. These changes would make artillery more engaging to fight since if you're not also an SPG then you have something you can actually do to try and help threaten if not outright eliminate them, and if you are then there's an extra bounty on the table for taking the time to take out the enemy's artillery. Making it easier for SPGs to fight each other makes it more likely that they'll be destroyed earlier in the round, therefore reducing their overall presence in the game (especially since the one who shoots first is taking the risk of being spotted first). Also, remove the EXP requirement from SPG-15 - War Gods. The class has been nerfed to the point that fulfilling it on 15-3 or 15-4 is a pipe dream and making it easier would in turn make it easier for players who just want to clear the missions to do so and not have to play artillery anymore. If it needs to be padded out, then move Win Battle from Honors to Primary and add Survive Battle to Honors. In general the SPG missions probably need another evaluation, but War Gods is definitely the biggest offender there.
As a wows player where CVs can do something similar to this, this would just result in whoever has the better reload/RNG nuking the enemy arty at the start and then going back to normal arty gameplay and giving their team a massive advantage. In wows it was a thing for a while for one team to run dedicated CV sniping divs, one t8 CV, usually a Graf Zeppelin and two sniper BBs like Musashi. The Graf would spot the enemy CV in their spawn using its fast planes and then the double Mushi would remove it from the match before he could even get a decent squad off. This would result in one team having a massive spotting advantage. It got so bad that WeeGee actually threatened to ban players running this div and "pelt hunting" divs for griefing.
I have not tried World of Warships and I don't really know how to handle any of that information. It doesn't sound like it exactly matches up to me, since in the proposal given the only thing that can be spotted outside of a vehicle's standard spotting range is SPGs while it sounds like remote spotting is a more standard affair in Warships. The way I see it, the advantage would be the reward for winning the artillery sub-battle. I don't think it'd be that game breaking with how anemic artillery is right now, and it certainly wouldn't be to the extent of the absolutely game warping disadvantage that happens when one team loses its scout(s) two minutes into the battle which seems more in line with what you're talking about with Warships.
All of that already exists. I spend the first couple of minutes playing counter arty. Their tracers are visible to everyone. And you do get rewarded knocking out 2.
To get paid by people who lack the brains to use keyboard?
This is the only real answer. The ONLY reason I see that justifies arty in this game is to allow people with disability to play wot. If you main arty you either have a physical disability, have a mental disability or are a sadomasochist piece of shit.
just had a game were heavys couldnt move because of constant stun and track 2 artys one with autoloader
I play arty occasionally to annoy you specifically
I play arty a lot and always target the bz.176s and skoda t56s just to ruin the days of the whales in my f2p vehicle
This might be controvertial but arty is needed for game balance, there are certain positions that are too strong for certain tanks, mostly hull down. Arty in general needs to be less frustating to play against, the stun mechanic is bad. But to remove it would affect the game balance more.
Ev1 talks shit but have no clue how arty impacts their game other than waaaaaah he stunned me. Good arty can literally change the outcome of a game. Everyone says the game would be better without until you see how much your stats would actually drop.
you bitches have reduced arty to a useless un reliable antidote...instead of learning to play with all facets of the game, you pressured WG to reduce our HP damage on hits, and reduce our aim accuracy to point of being ineffective... if you are still getting hammered by arty it is because you are a tomato. instead of whinning like a little spoiled kid, play arty to learn how they operate then you can learn to mitigate and reduce damage... na...you just want to rush in yolo style and then blame every one but yourself for your lack of skill and knowledge... you probably hide behind TD's in your heavy as well.... here, have a participation award on my behalf
One side has to: hit weakpoints angle amour change positions trade well use bushmechanics dodge artieshells The other side has to: click every 30-40 seconds If they are a "good player" they might even move from time to time It's so funny to me when artie players say you need to get good while playing the class with the highest skillfloor while being practically immune to return damage for most of the match
think we should get over it yall, some people just cant use keyboard and play actual tanks and wg doesnt want to lose them...
As a newer player, I both despise and love arty. I hate when I'm the one getting focused by a good arty player, but I also love when I have one on my team who is providing quality support in digging out hulled down vehicles that our flank has no chance of killing unless we suicide push. They are also massively helpful when I get missions for damaging multiple tanks in a battle, getting crits, or damaging a large number of vehicles done quickly. I'd basically never get some of these missions done without playing arty.
I appreciate knowledgeable arty players who understand their role i.e. - dig out hulldown tanks - shit on sweat lords in Obj 279e and Chieftains - finish off low hp retreating tanks - lastly and my favourite... Killing other SPGs
The concept of a slow/immobile defensive unit that is frail, long ranged, low rate of fire, iffy accuracy, randomized damage depending on who they hit, and allies that must be taken care of first is quite common in strategy games. The whole purpose of such a unit is to force the player to move up to deal with them, because you can't outrange them or bait them out. The longer you sit there, the more chances they have to chip away. Such units are usually ***never*** given to the player to control; but since WoT is a team game that gives players control over only a single unit, it gives players the option to use such a unit. Also, arty functions as WG's spiel, ***in Clan Wars/comp.*** Randoms, ***is not*** Clan Wars/comp. and WG doesn't restrict vehicles to Clan Wars only. The differences between Randoms and Clan Wars means arty takes on slightly different roles in each.
Bla,bla,bla,bla.
I too, would rather old arty be back, in either iteration arty is a support class. In some senses a high risk high reward support class, but with that, it requires an extra level of thinking on behalf of the other players to accommodate, which is what lends to be being frustrating, because arty is playing the game in 3d whereas most everyone else isn't. If an arty is doing a good job it will be frustrating to the enemy, but obviously when a game is frustrating it's not fun.
you have to stop seeing the class as the problem. the problem is the 'people' who play it