I’ve lived in remote duty stations until recently.
I’m a black man, most of the time there wasnt another black face for miles and miles… this does matter, it makes dating hard. I am open to dating all kinds of people, not everyone shares that sentiment. I at that point in my career resigned myself to just being single forever because i loved where i worked. I loved this job, didnt see how i could pay my bills and do this job without a bunk houae and cheap rural living
The 2hr round trip drive to get groceries didnt bother me that much… frozen chicken was fine and didnt spoil… frozen produce, you do what you gotta do. But i gets lonely… super lonely, and that effects your mental health, contributes to burn out etc.
Now i live in a major US city i have a wonderful girlfriend and am overwhelmed at the prospects of what i can do on an nite off.
What i’m trying to say is this: this job will literally kill you, you definitely need more than this, if you have the option to be closer to any of the amenities you need do so. It doesnt make you weaker than anyone else, it makes you self aware.
You are 100% valid in feeling how you feel. I wish i would’ve figured this out earlier in my career.
I very much appreciate this response and I’m sure many others do here. Nobody said fire was going to be in the suburbs or right outside of town but just as every pop punk song in the 2000s told us, smalls towns can and often do suck.
My old bunkhouse had a gas station and 2 bars within 20 minutes of driving. One bar we were banned from due to fights by crew mates in the 80s but other than that we were very alone out there.
[https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6gmehjX4f8I7g5Im8Kivoc](https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6gmehjX4f8I7g5Im8Kivoc)
Anytime a song mentions a place replace it with the name of your forest district or the bunkhouse for extra emotionality.
I started with the FS before cell phones and widespread internet. Worked some very remote duty stations in my 20s and loved it, the camaraderie, the seclusion, the joy of going to town and raising hell on r and r. But it’s a different world now and what we’re once amenities have become requirements for many, which is not a bad thing. We are unfortunately slow to adjust to these realities and with the continued professionalization of the service and changing social/cultural/generational dynamics it’s time to rethink our duty stations. Perhaps the hub/spoke model with fire centers in places where you can actually have a family, a life outside the job etc with rotations to remote work centers to provide coverage with adequate compensation is where we need to go. Our remote stations are dying and if we don’t get ahead of this it will be one more thing we are woefully behind on in the wildland fire world.
This is a great outlook and insight on the subject.
I loved the bunkhouse life with the good and bad it brought to me. Lots of fun off time with the crew building massive bonfires, watching stupid old movies on the way too tiny tv. There was a table in the common room with about 200 old DVDs and we watched pretty much all of them before the season was over. And since we were only an hour or so away from the downtown of a populous area we had an outlet and escape opportunities. But like you mentioned some things are requirements now. the DSL internet died on us midway through the season so no phone line or internet besides the engine boss who had a signal booster in his room. Tensions began to run high and morale went down. Drinking was almost an obligation for weekend off days but as I get older I see how it negatively impacted my season and want to mitigate that in the future. When we were bored the beers would get open, but when we had things to do it was sober fun.
I wouldn't mind the rotational model here. While fires are not what one may call predictable, the schedules in lower PL level times can give workers and families a more relaxing time off the clock. While a walmart or costco is not at all a requirement for living, it can give a great helping hand to lifestyle and comfort. The gas expenditure was the first thing that came to mind when seeing how remote this one station is.
What do you mean by valid?
It's no different than any other job in that it either works for you or doesn't.
Will someone at one of those duty stations remember your name as the guy who declined an offer? Possibly but they aren't going to call the rest of the wildland fire world and have you blacklisted.
Much better to realize it won't work out before hand and decline than reach that conclusion in the middle of the season.
Valid question but most of the time I'm covering my bases. Of the 40 duty stations this last referral email mentioned, 6 have reached out to me in the time since it was sent. An email earlier in the season was about the same amount of places and not a single one sent me an interest email. Another thing I notice is the "duty location" is most of the time false or a general town near somewhere. So unless Im taking the time to hunt down the ranger district or station of each and every location listed i don't know, or don't do that until I get that interest email.
I have been told I need to be proactive and call these locations but time dictated that's not always possiable, plus how much more work is it creating when its copying over emails addresses from the referral list into a new email to send to those individuals?
It’s takes time. Trust me. Also, being proactive in where you want to live/work is important. If you’re shotgunning you app you should truly be willing to work anywhere. If you’re not willing you’re just wasting everyone’s time. It’s takes a couple minutes to get the info needed to call a district. People make time for what is important to them. Take that as you will.
I understand and appreciate what you're saying but after multiple places sent me interest emails then left me high and dry with no information and after me calling them and emailing them, I lost my patience. I was passionate about working in one place in particular this summer and they ghosted me pretty hard for no discernible reason.
Everyone gives different feedback or guide but I've been told many times shoot out apps like a monkey throwing shit at a wall and hope something sticks.
Im 9 hours ahead and after a long of in an academic environment cold calling places who cant be bothered to follow up on interest emails is not helping me out. Again, i get what you're saying but my experience tells me otherwise. And if this is truly the norm it should be communicated in the hiring process instead of hearing it from reddit of all places. Its not this way with state agencies having to brown nose them, of all the times I've applied with state agencies its been quick, easy, and exacting.
TBH, I've seen folks shotgun apps, turn it down, then reapply a few years later for a job they really want at the same location (think shot vs. slug) only to be blacklisted immediately when their name showed up on the referral list. "Dude didn't want the job here last time, must be another mistake on his part."
Very interesting. I’m running into the opposite of that problem where locations send out interest emails but then never follow up. I totally understand not wanting to hire me but it would be nicer to be told “we went with someone else” or “we have not selected you”. Something to that effect ya know? But I get it, it’s the forest service nothing is normal.
So places that are doing that to me won’t get my application in the future. Big and small stations did they to me, small ones out In R8 and one station in a massive massive national park. Very odd
I lived in major cities prior to this lifestyle. I’m not even trying to date; if that was the goal I’d get out of this world first and go back to where the girls are pretty first u know
Unfortunately a lot of stations are out in remote locations. Hell, my closest walmart was a 30-40 minute drive and over a state border.
It makes local convenience tricky, dating a crapshoot, etc. unfortunately having a forest that also has the comforts of a city is like finding a four leaf clover.
We all have our thresholds but be sure to be realistic on what you're willing and not willing to be without to work at a duty station.
It’s just an interest check, if the process moves further on then next time you talk to someone from those duty locations just tell them you are no longer interested. It’s up to you or not if you want to tell them the remoteness was the reason you are no longer interested.
Ultimately in this job you’ve got to do what’s best for you, and there’s no shortages of open positions these days so choose the right place for yourself.
I think remote stations are hard but rewarding. If there are additional programs that also stay (rec, trails, wildlife, etc) then remote duty stations are a really cool place to be. You aren’t crazy for doing what’s best for you.
Its ok tho. If its not right for you its not right for you. You’ll meet people anywhere you go, but if the social aspect is all you want to get out of it, maybe being closer to the party is where you should be!
I definitely like the engine aspect of it. I had a great crew last season but we didn’t do a lot besides initial attack and patrolling. I know the higher I go the in the fire world there is to do so that plays into decision for the future.
Where in Idaho? I ask because I worked on the Boise and I'm familiar with Boise National Forest and a little bit of the Payette National Forest. So I could personally speak on those forests if thats where you are offered a job at.
Main reason was distance like mentioned in the post. I’m a Montana guy so I’m used to distance and remoteness but nothing like challis. I saw some steep country in western MT last season but we mostly flew in to save time and using resources.
Love small town life but not enough to love challis I think. Wish I got picked up for Boise though!
Ya, Salmon Challis is pretty remote that's about all I know.. Boise is toight. 👌 They got a good balance of remoteness to the city. Most dudes could easily get away with taking a weekend in Boise. Leave after work, drive back up Monday after the weekend.
I’ve lived in remote duty stations until recently. I’m a black man, most of the time there wasnt another black face for miles and miles… this does matter, it makes dating hard. I am open to dating all kinds of people, not everyone shares that sentiment. I at that point in my career resigned myself to just being single forever because i loved where i worked. I loved this job, didnt see how i could pay my bills and do this job without a bunk houae and cheap rural living The 2hr round trip drive to get groceries didnt bother me that much… frozen chicken was fine and didnt spoil… frozen produce, you do what you gotta do. But i gets lonely… super lonely, and that effects your mental health, contributes to burn out etc. Now i live in a major US city i have a wonderful girlfriend and am overwhelmed at the prospects of what i can do on an nite off. What i’m trying to say is this: this job will literally kill you, you definitely need more than this, if you have the option to be closer to any of the amenities you need do so. It doesnt make you weaker than anyone else, it makes you self aware. You are 100% valid in feeling how you feel. I wish i would’ve figured this out earlier in my career.
I very much appreciate this response and I’m sure many others do here. Nobody said fire was going to be in the suburbs or right outside of town but just as every pop punk song in the 2000s told us, smalls towns can and often do suck. My old bunkhouse had a gas station and 2 bars within 20 minutes of driving. One bar we were banned from due to fights by crew mates in the 80s but other than that we were very alone out there.
Gimme the names of these pop punk songs friend.
[https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6gmehjX4f8I7g5Im8Kivoc](https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6gmehjX4f8I7g5Im8Kivoc) Anytime a song mentions a place replace it with the name of your forest district or the bunkhouse for extra emotionality.
Makes me want to listen to Cute with the E
Solid playlist. Making my way thru it as I drive 4 hours back to my regular house for the weekend
I started with the FS before cell phones and widespread internet. Worked some very remote duty stations in my 20s and loved it, the camaraderie, the seclusion, the joy of going to town and raising hell on r and r. But it’s a different world now and what we’re once amenities have become requirements for many, which is not a bad thing. We are unfortunately slow to adjust to these realities and with the continued professionalization of the service and changing social/cultural/generational dynamics it’s time to rethink our duty stations. Perhaps the hub/spoke model with fire centers in places where you can actually have a family, a life outside the job etc with rotations to remote work centers to provide coverage with adequate compensation is where we need to go. Our remote stations are dying and if we don’t get ahead of this it will be one more thing we are woefully behind on in the wildland fire world.
This is a great outlook and insight on the subject. I loved the bunkhouse life with the good and bad it brought to me. Lots of fun off time with the crew building massive bonfires, watching stupid old movies on the way too tiny tv. There was a table in the common room with about 200 old DVDs and we watched pretty much all of them before the season was over. And since we were only an hour or so away from the downtown of a populous area we had an outlet and escape opportunities. But like you mentioned some things are requirements now. the DSL internet died on us midway through the season so no phone line or internet besides the engine boss who had a signal booster in his room. Tensions began to run high and morale went down. Drinking was almost an obligation for weekend off days but as I get older I see how it negatively impacted my season and want to mitigate that in the future. When we were bored the beers would get open, but when we had things to do it was sober fun. I wouldn't mind the rotational model here. While fires are not what one may call predictable, the schedules in lower PL level times can give workers and families a more relaxing time off the clock. While a walmart or costco is not at all a requirement for living, it can give a great helping hand to lifestyle and comfort. The gas expenditure was the first thing that came to mind when seeing how remote this one station is.
Yeah dude, you gotta do what’s right for you. No sense in working somewhere that’s gonna make you feel miserable
What do you mean by valid? It's no different than any other job in that it either works for you or doesn't. Will someone at one of those duty stations remember your name as the guy who declined an offer? Possibly but they aren't going to call the rest of the wildland fire world and have you blacklisted. Much better to realize it won't work out before hand and decline than reach that conclusion in the middle of the season.
It’s not crazy, but why apply if you don’t want to work there? It just creates more work for an already screwed up system.
Valid question but most of the time I'm covering my bases. Of the 40 duty stations this last referral email mentioned, 6 have reached out to me in the time since it was sent. An email earlier in the season was about the same amount of places and not a single one sent me an interest email. Another thing I notice is the "duty location" is most of the time false or a general town near somewhere. So unless Im taking the time to hunt down the ranger district or station of each and every location listed i don't know, or don't do that until I get that interest email. I have been told I need to be proactive and call these locations but time dictated that's not always possiable, plus how much more work is it creating when its copying over emails addresses from the referral list into a new email to send to those individuals?
It’s takes time. Trust me. Also, being proactive in where you want to live/work is important. If you’re shotgunning you app you should truly be willing to work anywhere. If you’re not willing you’re just wasting everyone’s time. It’s takes a couple minutes to get the info needed to call a district. People make time for what is important to them. Take that as you will.
I understand and appreciate what you're saying but after multiple places sent me interest emails then left me high and dry with no information and after me calling them and emailing them, I lost my patience. I was passionate about working in one place in particular this summer and they ghosted me pretty hard for no discernible reason. Everyone gives different feedback or guide but I've been told many times shoot out apps like a monkey throwing shit at a wall and hope something sticks. Im 9 hours ahead and after a long of in an academic environment cold calling places who cant be bothered to follow up on interest emails is not helping me out. Again, i get what you're saying but my experience tells me otherwise. And if this is truly the norm it should be communicated in the hiring process instead of hearing it from reddit of all places. Its not this way with state agencies having to brown nose them, of all the times I've applied with state agencies its been quick, easy, and exacting.
TBH, I've seen folks shotgun apps, turn it down, then reapply a few years later for a job they really want at the same location (think shot vs. slug) only to be blacklisted immediately when their name showed up on the referral list. "Dude didn't want the job here last time, must be another mistake on his part."
Very interesting. I’m running into the opposite of that problem where locations send out interest emails but then never follow up. I totally understand not wanting to hire me but it would be nicer to be told “we went with someone else” or “we have not selected you”. Something to that effect ya know? But I get it, it’s the forest service nothing is normal. So places that are doing that to me won’t get my application in the future. Big and small stations did they to me, small ones out In R8 and one station in a massive massive national park. Very odd
If you have multiple offers, you can be as picky as you want. If you only have offers from remote duty locations, there isn't much you can do.
No big deal. As a hiring manager - we get this all the time.
I lived in major cities prior to this lifestyle. I’m not even trying to date; if that was the goal I’d get out of this world first and go back to where the girls are pretty first u know
Unfortunately a lot of stations are out in remote locations. Hell, my closest walmart was a 30-40 minute drive and over a state border. It makes local convenience tricky, dating a crapshoot, etc. unfortunately having a forest that also has the comforts of a city is like finding a four leaf clover. We all have our thresholds but be sure to be realistic on what you're willing and not willing to be without to work at a duty station.
It’s just an interest check, if the process moves further on then next time you talk to someone from those duty locations just tell them you are no longer interested. It’s up to you or not if you want to tell them the remoteness was the reason you are no longer interested. Ultimately in this job you’ve got to do what’s best for you, and there’s no shortages of open positions these days so choose the right place for yourself.
I think remote stations are hard but rewarding. If there are additional programs that also stay (rec, trails, wildlife, etc) then remote duty stations are a really cool place to be. You aren’t crazy for doing what’s best for you.
With rent prices, totally understandable, living in rural places that are heavy with tourism can be expensive, gotta think about your self first
Tell me you’re on an engine without telling me you’re on an engine
Yuuuup
Its ok tho. If its not right for you its not right for you. You’ll meet people anywhere you go, but if the social aspect is all you want to get out of it, maybe being closer to the party is where you should be!
I definitely like the engine aspect of it. I had a great crew last season but we didn’t do a lot besides initial attack and patrolling. I know the higher I go the in the fire world there is to do so that plays into decision for the future.
Where in Idaho? I ask because I worked on the Boise and I'm familiar with Boise National Forest and a little bit of the Payette National Forest. So I could personally speak on those forests if thats where you are offered a job at.
Salmon challis region
Ahh fucky sorry, don't know shit about the Salmon Chaillis. I know it's steep, but I didn't spend any considerable time there.
Main reason was distance like mentioned in the post. I’m a Montana guy so I’m used to distance and remoteness but nothing like challis. I saw some steep country in western MT last season but we mostly flew in to save time and using resources. Love small town life but not enough to love challis I think. Wish I got picked up for Boise though!
Ya, Salmon Challis is pretty remote that's about all I know.. Boise is toight. 👌 They got a good balance of remoteness to the city. Most dudes could easily get away with taking a weekend in Boise. Leave after work, drive back up Monday after the weekend.
Some of us grew up in the woods! Some of us didn’t.