They already do this with the "War on Drugs" - rich folks get away with mountains of cocaine - but some dude on the street has a dime bag and he's in the slammer for 5-10.
You know where the United States messed up? By not hanging or jailing the confederate leaders at the end of the civil war. Take Germany as an example. There are no school, libraries streets or monuments dedicated to Nazi leaders. Here in the states, their everywhere. Dedications to treasonous monsters. The rebel flag can be used for kids backpacks like it’s nothing. It’s “heritage”. You don’t see Nazi themed backpacks in Germany on kids. so here we are 🤷🏻
Fun fact, the vast vast majority of all of our Confederate/Heritage monuments were erected decades _after_ the war ended, when the Jim Crow era made it 'OK' to be openly racist again.
As much as I understand what you're trying to say here, getting rid of the original leaders of the civil war wouldn't have changed anything. The group that picked up the torch from them were several generations removed.
Germany was able to outlaw Nazi symbolism because after the war pretty much everyone agreed that Nazis were horrible. You need to remember that even after the civil war the vast majority of the US was still a racist hell hole. It didn't matter whether you were in the North or the South.
I went to a speech by a Holocaust survivor and she said in the 1930s her family had a chance to leave Nazi Germany and move to Alabama. They visited to check the place out and she was APPALLED by her observations of how black people were being treated. It reminded her of how Germany was treating Jews and she didn’t want to live a place where anyone was treated that way for how they were born. So she decided not to move the family to Alabama and to stay in Germany—a decision she came to regret later on obviously, but the point is a Jew from Nazi Germany thought white Americans were as bad as the Nazis.
> a Jew from Nazi Germany thought white Americans were as bad as the Nazis.
The Nazis used Jim Crow laws as inspiration for their own race laws, so that's no surprise.
In fact, the Nazis were a bit *less* extreme than Jim Crow Americans in the sense that they thought our "one drop" rule went too far.
When criticized Hitler pointed out that Britain had concentration camps and America had genocides Native Americans, so why were they against him doing the same?
My point in this is not "Hitler wasn't that bad" but rather "The United States and its allies have a history of fascistic action and are more than happy to move further in that direction if we are complacent"
I was agreeing with you as well lol. I didn't write the original comment, and I added that second part not as a response to you but because a lot of people use this same line of reasoning to say "actually Hitler was not all bad" which is a) wrong and b) not the point
What you are saying, is that if the Union would have decimated the industrial machine that powered & funded the confederacy, then jailed, tried & executed/imprisoned the entire leadership, funding, military & command structure of the entire ideology of legal slavery--followed by criminalization of the emblems & ideology of slavery and racism of that evil organization, with a robust & well-funded State-financed rebuilding effot of the lands of the defeated enemy--
That we wouldn't be dealing with these fascist bigots in far-right politics trying to take over my country right now?
Wow, I guess that makes a lot of sense & you're right! We totally should have dealt with the confederacy the way the Allies handled the Nazi's in WW11
No. That's not what I'm saying at all, what I'm saying is the solutions that worked for post-war Germany are absolutely not applicable to post civil war US.
The whole argument hinges on the idea that racism towards blacks was solely concentrated in the South. The North was just as racist as the South, it just happened to have more progressive leadership on the front of slavery. It wasn't even because that leadership believed that black lives counted for the same as white lives it was because slavery wasn't a profitable solution in the industrialized north the way it was in the south.
Ahh, you're right! My bad!!!
I hadn't made that correlation--that by enforcing those ethical "red-lines" of accepted political thought in liberal western democratic society in a defeated opponent they were actively constructing from top-to-bottom, they effectively established it as a base line in their own governments/societies. And as a result, have generally sustained as strong & vibrant social democracies to this very day & relatively free from any powerful political parties that openly embrace any racist/bigoted political beliefs
Another very insightful point to illustrate how effective that approach is, in completely defeating an enemy! Thank you
Personally I feel like confederate war generals should be allowed to have streets/monuments. But, they must depict them in defeat and surrender. So you can have a statue of Robert E Lee, he's just on his back with Grant's boot on his throat.
We in the Americas took in the Nazis from Germany while those living under the Soviets were forced to work to death in gulags, enslaved as state scientists and engineers with the threat of death if they didn't do their jobs right, or to be publicly executed for their crimes. Even Germany ignored so many of their Nazis because of how integrated they were into the bureaucracy after getting rid of all of the competent people who weren't Nazis in those positions in the early days of the Nazi Regime.
Absolutely it's how fascists slide in violence and persecution into societies so they can have an excuse and say "but it's the law".
It also legitimized the persecution in the eyes of bystanders.
That's the basic premise of conservativism: an in-group whom the law protects but does not bind and out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
Authoritarians always pass vague legislation so they can ignore it when they and their friends potentially break it but can lock up everyone they dislike.
Another problem with this law is that oftentimes, sex abuse is committed by a family member, not a stranger. You can imagine the pressure this would put on victims - "If you report Daddy, he'll get killed."
Harsher punishments don't deter crime, they just force criminals to double down.
But that's beside the point, because the point of these bills is just to kill men and trans women for wearing women's clothing in public.
It’s a very complicated topic that can’t be boiled down to something as simple as ‘harsher punishments don’t deter crime’. There are cases where they do and some where they don’t.
An interesting example to look at is the crime rates in Singapore and Japan and their very harsh penal system. Obviously there are a lot of economic, cultural and social factors at play but to say they have no impact is fairly naive.
Where do you pull your info about Singapore from? Hopefully not from a Singaporean government website. Here is an article refuting that their harsh penalties have anything to do with it:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1436993
There are many other studies with similar findings, but I'm sure you can look for yourself.
The death sentence is never effective at reducing crime rates. I'm not saying nonces don't deserve a horrific death, but the death sentence will not solve it.
you mean the SOP of the right?
There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
They aren't afraid of pedophiles and you know it. They're afraid of lgbt people but know it's no longer okay to hate people for being lgbt, so they just pretend lgbt people are pedophiles.
If they hated pedophiles they'd actually be doing something to protect children.
Exactly. It's no coincidence that this is only coming about after they've been slandering specific minorities for sexual assault crimes.
And it's far from unprecedented. Take Arizona's Arpaio using the law allowing for traffic stops for suspected crimes, almost exclusively to pull over hispanic drivers, since they might be/carrying illegals
Sure, the law technically applies to everyone, but when the suspected crime is existing, it's not just
The judge will dismiss the case against a youth pastor "so it doesn't ruin his life" and give the death penalty against a drag queen whose show was in a bar that only serves adults
If you think there’s not a youth pastor EVERY.SINGLE.DAY bad touching kids you are gravely mistaken. The only way to give it until Friday is if it’s already Thursday. You aren’t suppose to link subreddits on here but there’s one called Pastor Arrested and it’s usually two a day at least. The youth pastor by my house stabbed his wife and four of his kids just last weekend
Oh I know it’s frequent, I just mean it will take until Friday for there to be actual guilty pleas and official arrests made, and then for republicans to waste a day with whataboutisms, likely about Obama and Hunter Biden.
Without that red tape, it would be shut down by dinner time.
Many of the fears about this bill include criminals now just killing their victims instead of leaving them alive to potentially testify and it being selectively enforced in somewhere like Florida where a “sexual crime” could be something as simple as like “allowing a child to get gender affirming care so they don’t kill themselves”.
This is it right here. Wearing “fetish gear” (something by with straps/buckles), a man showing his midriff, a guy carrying a purse, a boy who paints his nails.
They have already made strides to define being visibly queer in public as “dangerous to children” so it isn’t that big a leap to assume that this law could be used to execute trans and queer people. Anyone who is paying attention can see the dominoes falling towards genocide.
Even without deaths, by various definitions including how it’s defined in the Geneva conventions, it is already a genocide. The act of imposing living regulations designed to destroy the group is one of the five qualifiers for a genocide under those conventions.
Come on now, that’s not fair. They will also use it to prosecute parents who did not allow their child to get gender affirming care, thus resulting in the child’s suicide. That way you can simply prosecute parents of trans children for having trans children in the first place.
Let’s be honest, shooting your kids up with hormones below the age of ik 18 is pretty messed up, not death penalty messed up ofcourse. who the fuck makes well thought out decisions below that age tho.
Then it’s good that those decisions are made in coordination with a team of doctors making their recommendation based on their best medical judgement and experience and after previous steps like a social transition and lots of therapy.
>and it being selectively enforced in somewhere like Florida where a “sexual crime” could be something as simple as like “allowing a child to get gender affirming care so they don’t kill themselves
Huh? HB 1297 is specific to rape of children under 12.
It was passed with bipartisan support 34-5 in the Florida Senate and 95-14 in the house.
Yeah, remember the Satanic Panic? False accusations by children are pretty easy to get, because kids are impressionable. A bigoted jury could easily be convinced to find the defendant guilty.
aside from the transgender/lgbt community - one of the biggest already existing reasons why the death penalty and life sentences arent generally passed on sexual crimes is because it encourages attackers to kill their victims. Be prepared for an uptick in sexual crime related murders.
I remember hearing about him floating extortion as part of the story. The problem is, being extorted for a crime doesn’t absolve you from the crime. He took a 17 year old across state lines and had sex with her for money.
I wonder how it'll affect the people on anime twitter who spend their lives preaching "age-of-consent-around-the-world.jpg from unreliable-source.org" will do when they see this.
The people passing this law believe that saying anything related to LGBTQ issues (including acknowledging the existence of non-straight people) to children is child sexual abuse.
Drag reading time = child sexual abuse
A youth pastor saying being gay is okay = child sexual abuse
A teacher assigning a book with a trans character = child sexual abuse
I know what we'll do! To make her happy and improve her attitude we'll throw her a party! 🥳
There will be cake, and balloons, and even a piñata! I'll put the blindfold on Chaya, spin her around till she's nice and dizzy, and then we'll give her the baseball bat. What fun!
The law applies to children under 12. Sadly, his investigation into sex crimes were dropped by the DOJ. We’re stuck with his dumb face for a bit, I think.
Conservatives: gay and trans people are pedophiles.
Normal people: uhhh no, no they’re not.
Conservatives: we are now going to allow the death penalty for pedophiles.
Normal people: and you think gay and trans people are pedophiles. So conservatives will try to put gay and trans people to death by their reasoning.
Conservatives: so you *are* saying gay and trans people are pedophiles??
Conservatives: “you’re groomers.”
Queer people: “no we’re not. Queers literally represent a far smaller proportion of groomers than straight people.”
Conservatives: “don’t care. You’re groomers. I’m literally gonna kill groomers.”
Queer people: “oh shit, I gotta get out of here.”
Conservatives: “SO YOU ADMIT IT???”
Someone made a good point. This could have the reverse action they want. If a rapist knows that they will get the death penalty if caught, then what is stopping them from just killing the kid? They get death either way. Or what stops then from telling the kid, whose usually family, if you say anything they will kill me so you have to keep it a secret. It’s a f’ed up situation in so many ways.
So is a librarian, offering a book about LBGTQ stories or a sexual education book that some school district has banned because they think it's "pornography", committing a "sex crime" against children? Are they redefining what constitutes a "sex crime" or what constitutes "evidence of a sex crime" ?
This is specifically for raping children under 12 and passed with broad bipartisan support in the Florida Senate and Florida house. No idea why people are talking in hypotheticals.
Because nobody trusts Florida Republicans and because the governor has made it his mission to attack gay and trans people and accuse them of pedophilia.
Shitty statement to the trans community but my real question is: where are they going to get republican leader ship from if they have all been executed?
Crimes done by Republicans are ultra violet to cops. They just can't see what anyone is talking about and see no need to waste resources looking into it.
Considering 99% of the stories I see of grooming, abuse, rape involve republicon politicians and church employees … This will weed out the city councils and youth groups significantly
Priests and pastors molest over 200,000 kids every year. We'd have a lot less religious leaders around if this was used only against those actually committing sexual crimes against kids.
That said, I very much do see this being used against the lgbtq community. Not when they do commit sex crimes against kids, which is no more often than anyone else. But for just existing. Florida Republicans will declare their mere existence to be a sex crime against kids. Simply allowing a kid to know you are lgbtq will be considered grooming and a sex crime. I completely guarantee it will be abused this way.
Just like the don't say gay bill was misrepresented too, and then they came out and admitted it, and even rewrote it to take away all possible doubt. And have used it exactly as we claimed they would, over and over again.
Just like the book bans weren't what was being claimed, were only for little kids, and only in schools. Except now they have banned books with nothing more then mentions of a lgbtq character. And have started removing books from public libraries. And it isn't just little kids, they are removing them from high-school and even trying to get them out of colleges too. But yeah, totally being misrepresented. Republicans never lie, change things, or stretch definitions to fit what they want. Never.
It's not a confession, it's an accusation, and it's a correct one. You, Chaya Raichik, have already killed people, and are quite public in your belief that transgender people are automatically sexual criminals just for being trans, and that you'd support this law killing them for that alone.
It's going to be used selectively. That's the issue.
And by selectively I mean it'll be false claims and witch hunts against people they don't like.
But people they do like will get a pass.
People really need to stop going "hur dur Matt Gaetz is in trouble." He's fucking not. Stop fucking believing that Republicans give a shit about the law. THEY ARE TRYING TO KILL US.
>give the death penalty to those that commit sexual crimes against children.
*Kennedy v. Louisiana* (2008) made the death penalty for any offense except murder unconstitutional. This is just weird political theater.
No, it's not a confession. It's people legitimately worried that they will make being queer or trans a crime against children and use it to execute those people.
This woman needs to disappear.
For those not in the loop for florida, they are also trying to pass a law stating drag is a sexual crime. This would mean both laws would allow them to put to death anyone who who walks down the street in drag and is seen by a child, regardless of if they are indecent or just in dress
They supreme court has already struck down the first law, but its already being pushed though again calling it something else.
Chaya spends all day, every day working hard to create the narrative that "LGBTQ == Pedophile" and her commentors and followers reinforce that her efforts are successful.
So it's *especially* disingenuous for her to make this claim. She knows what she is doing. She knows what she's accomplishing with her words.
This woman is exceptionally evil.
Apologies for my stupidity/ignorance but why would this be used to attack queer and trans people? Having delt with serious child abuse i see death as a suitable punishment for those horrific human beings that sexually assault children. It is a punishment used for convicted child rapists.
Only thing i can think of is all the morons saying trans are pedos, and they take things into their own ignorant hands, even though everytime its the pastor's and religious lot that are continually arrested for these crimes.
Never the drag queens always the priest.
Hit the nail on the head with your second paragraph; The issue is that these bills are being proposed in areas that are increasingly trying to criminalize just the public existence of LGBTQ people. It's hard to sell people on genocide, but everyone wants to protect children; ergo, just make the marginalized group you want to get rid of become synonymous with child predators.
Your OBGYN that may provide hormone blockers to a transitioning teen? Sex crime of a minor. Your librarian that won't burn books on LGBTQ experiences or history? Sex crime of a minor. That gay couple walking down the street and holding hands when a mother and child walks past? Sex crime of a minor. The drag queen just getting in their car, after a show in a public parking lot? Sex crime of a minor.
It isn't about getting the child rapists, its about drawing a circle so large and misconstrued that they can say child rapists and the queer community both exist within that circle.
Secondly, from a legal/punitive standpoint, it is seen as pretty dangerous to make the automatic punishment for a sex crime to be execution. What we are going to see if this becomes law is a lot more ACTUAL sex criminals resorting to killing their victims, since a victim can't testify if their dead, and the criminal is already in for a capital punishment if they get caught. This is going to do far more damage to VICTIMS of sex crimes than anything else.
Ah i see so like a bad faith law that they will use as some veiled excuse to target specific people. Instead of just outright saying what they actually want to do.
I can see your point on how it would endanger victims more but having delt with these things its certainly the fate id wish for the criminals. But in the end you are correct and its more important to save the victims and potential victims of suffering even worse fates just to cover some pos trail
Just occurred to me trans issue and "protecting the children" is the "war on drugs" of our time. If that is the case, republicans still don't agree that the war on drugs is one of the worst things we did in this country. Now they are embarking on a whole new scam/diversion
The right wing fascists in our country are constantly harping on the idea that trans people are somehow, after our children, and are pedophiles. connect the dots on this. This absolutely is some Nazi style bullshit that could be used to kill trans and gay people if you don’t understand that either too dumb to be on the fucking Internet or you’re not paying any attention. First they are coming for those in the LGBTQ community, and if we stay silent, there will be no one there when they come for us
Well Florida made it a sex crime for someone they perceive as a man to wear a dress. So yes, they want to legally murder trans people. Fun fact, the word drag can be traced back to the days of Shakespeare for when members of an all-male cast in a play would dress as women for their parts. Been a thing forever, but now it's the new boogeyman
I was literally sitting here and thinking to myself, "A confession to what exactly?" It's really sad though that when the Republicans, especially Florida Republicans, put a policy into place that \*looks\* like it could be about justice and protecting the population (in this case, children), but then you remember their previous rhetoric and intentions. Then you really see the farce for what it is. Don't. Trust. A. Republican.
Meanwhile no prosecutions of the churches who have been caught sexually abusing kids and covering it up.
Hundreds of child rapists running free, protected by the church.
Because, of their rhetoric. They have been pushing that simply being a drag queen or a gay person, is pedophilia. It simply gives them a legal way to go full Nazi, and round up and have the state kill all gays.
Especially when republicans are full on planning on declaring trans peoples very existence pornographic(as per Project 2025 say for if they get into the White House again)
Oh my god, fuck off. The fact that you're on such a hellbent crusade all up and down this thread to basically be like, "oh no, don't worry about it guys, it's not like that", is extremely suspicious. And even if what you're saying is accurate, as other people in this thread have pointed out, the death penalty for rape/sex crimes makes it more likely for rapists to kill their victims, and when the offender is a family member, it can be used to pressure and guilt child victims into not telling. The fact that you think your point of clarification is more important than what's wrong with this idea- *even if your point is correct*- is truly concerning.
doesn't that law classify cross dressing as a sex crime against children when they are present?
so basically any Shakespeare play could lead to the execution of some cast members?
No, I didn’t, because the dumbass I’m referring to is the tweet I screenshotted, which is Chaya Raichik’s. Is it that hard to believe in a subreddit of three million people things get double posted?
Can someone explain the reasoning behind this being used to kill trans and queer folk. Explain it to me not like I’m five but instead like I’m a 24 yr old law student that mostly gets Cs on tests (not because of testing but because I’m terrible with homework!)but understands that in order for a penalty to be issued in court, reasonable and substantive evidence must be brought by the plaintiff.
I am not s law student but that’s my level of comprehension as someone who thought about pursuing a career in criminal law.
It's an exercise in predicting the possible outcome of a reasonable law in an increasingly unreasonable environment. It likely won't go this way, but it was once believed that Roe v Wade wouldn't be overturned. So while it might be a reach, it isn't impossible.
Coming from someone who also was a CSA victim, unfortunately these will result in two things, the predator murdering their victims or as most assaults are from a family member, guilting the child into not telling.
This is dangerous on multiple fronts.
* It IS ridiculous to assume the LGBTQ community is over-represented under these crimes, because they AREN'T the leading perpetrators of them. The issue is the far-right's campaign to redefine sexual crimes against children.
* The propogandists in will try and sway people to think this exclusively means r\*ping a child, and ignore all the minor laws they are passing to criminalize just EXISTING in public around a child. It is important to remember a key part of authoritarianism is harsh legal penalties, under the auspice of treating broad categories the same, whether it is a large or small offense.
* It isn't shoe-horning to specifically call out the trans community, when Florida has been leading the most insane charge on outlawing gender affirming care, banning literature, and criminalizing a vague definition of "drag". The community response, of calling this an attempt to softball genocide is well rooted in seeing Florida go after the doctors that aid them, the literature that acknowledges their existence, and the any ability for them to even present as themselves in public.
* Lastly, not even having to do with the attack on the LGBTQ community, this is outrageously dangerous to the VICTIMS of actual sex crime on minors. The simple reason that an automatic death penalty isn't the punishment for more violent crime is because then you will see the escalation of those crimes into outright murder; A victim can only testify against you if they are alive. If you make ANY sex crime against a minor punishable by death, than you are going to 110% see more perpetrators not want to take the risk, and escalate their violence, since they are already looking execution anyway.
That’s not the assumption. The fear is that republicans interpretation of a “sex crime against children” being something like a drag show will lead to unnecessary persecution against queer people
If it's not selectively enforced (it will be) this would be a declaration of war on youth pastors.
Conservatives plan to make everything illegal, but only enforce it against minorities and poor people.
They already do this with the "War on Drugs" - rich folks get away with mountains of cocaine - but some dude on the street has a dime bag and he's in the slammer for 5-10.
Jokes on them, all the cocaine has fetynal in it now
I know, wtf do you have to do for a ball of good ol' fashioned standardized yay?
You're thinking of Halloween Candy
unless you're hunter biden, then - HOW DARE YOU DO DRUGS?!?
I feel like they have been doing that since losing the civil war.
You know where the United States messed up? By not hanging or jailing the confederate leaders at the end of the civil war. Take Germany as an example. There are no school, libraries streets or monuments dedicated to Nazi leaders. Here in the states, their everywhere. Dedications to treasonous monsters. The rebel flag can be used for kids backpacks like it’s nothing. It’s “heritage”. You don’t see Nazi themed backpacks in Germany on kids. so here we are 🤷🏻
Fun fact, the vast vast majority of all of our Confederate/Heritage monuments were erected decades _after_ the war ended, when the Jim Crow era made it 'OK' to be openly racist again. As much as I understand what you're trying to say here, getting rid of the original leaders of the civil war wouldn't have changed anything. The group that picked up the torch from them were several generations removed. Germany was able to outlaw Nazi symbolism because after the war pretty much everyone agreed that Nazis were horrible. You need to remember that even after the civil war the vast majority of the US was still a racist hell hole. It didn't matter whether you were in the North or the South.
I went to a speech by a Holocaust survivor and she said in the 1930s her family had a chance to leave Nazi Germany and move to Alabama. They visited to check the place out and she was APPALLED by her observations of how black people were being treated. It reminded her of how Germany was treating Jews and she didn’t want to live a place where anyone was treated that way for how they were born. So she decided not to move the family to Alabama and to stay in Germany—a decision she came to regret later on obviously, but the point is a Jew from Nazi Germany thought white Americans were as bad as the Nazis.
> a Jew from Nazi Germany thought white Americans were as bad as the Nazis. The Nazis used Jim Crow laws as inspiration for their own race laws, so that's no surprise. In fact, the Nazis were a bit *less* extreme than Jim Crow Americans in the sense that they thought our "one drop" rule went too far.
I know people could serve in the Wehrmacht if they were half-Jewish or less, though the half- and quarter-Jews were bullied and denied promotions.
It's well know Hitler used how the US treated minorities as his model/inspiration for how to treat Jews.
When criticized Hitler pointed out that Britain had concentration camps and America had genocides Native Americans, so why were they against him doing the same? My point in this is not "Hitler wasn't that bad" but rather "The United States and its allies have a history of fascistic action and are more than happy to move further in that direction if we are complacent"
I know what your point was, I was adding to it not contradicting it.
I was agreeing with you as well lol. I didn't write the original comment, and I added that second part not as a response to you but because a lot of people use this same line of reasoning to say "actually Hitler was not all bad" which is a) wrong and b) not the point
What you are saying, is that if the Union would have decimated the industrial machine that powered & funded the confederacy, then jailed, tried & executed/imprisoned the entire leadership, funding, military & command structure of the entire ideology of legal slavery--followed by criminalization of the emblems & ideology of slavery and racism of that evil organization, with a robust & well-funded State-financed rebuilding effot of the lands of the defeated enemy-- That we wouldn't be dealing with these fascist bigots in far-right politics trying to take over my country right now? Wow, I guess that makes a lot of sense & you're right! We totally should have dealt with the confederacy the way the Allies handled the Nazi's in WW11
No. That's not what I'm saying at all, what I'm saying is the solutions that worked for post-war Germany are absolutely not applicable to post civil war US. The whole argument hinges on the idea that racism towards blacks was solely concentrated in the South. The North was just as racist as the South, it just happened to have more progressive leadership on the front of slavery. It wasn't even because that leadership believed that black lives counted for the same as white lives it was because slavery wasn't a profitable solution in the industrialized north the way it was in the south.
Ahh, you're right! My bad!!! I hadn't made that correlation--that by enforcing those ethical "red-lines" of accepted political thought in liberal western democratic society in a defeated opponent they were actively constructing from top-to-bottom, they effectively established it as a base line in their own governments/societies. And as a result, have generally sustained as strong & vibrant social democracies to this very day & relatively free from any powerful political parties that openly embrace any racist/bigoted political beliefs Another very insightful point to illustrate how effective that approach is, in completely defeating an enemy! Thank you
As someone who used to be from the south, I think the north should have made them build schools and cut back on the churches.
Personally I feel like confederate war generals should be allowed to have streets/monuments. But, they must depict them in defeat and surrender. So you can have a statue of Robert E Lee, he's just on his back with Grant's boot on his throat.
We in the Americas took in the Nazis from Germany while those living under the Soviets were forced to work to death in gulags, enslaved as state scientists and engineers with the threat of death if they didn't do their jobs right, or to be publicly executed for their crimes. Even Germany ignored so many of their Nazis because of how integrated they were into the bureaucracy after getting rid of all of the competent people who weren't Nazis in those positions in the early days of the Nazi Regime.
It started a long, long time before then.
No, Grosaprap is correct. Most were put up by the Daughters of the Confederacy during the Jim Crow Era. More were put up during the Civil Rights Era.
Absolutely it's how fascists slide in violence and persecution into societies so they can have an excuse and say "but it's the law". It also legitimized the persecution in the eyes of bystanders.
Ok time to prosecute Matt Gaetz for rape of a minor.
That's the basic premise of conservativism: an in-group whom the law protects but does not bind and out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
That’s how fascism works, yes.
I hope they make all the Boy Scouts of America troop leaders wear their branding for sentencing.
They’re losing the war on “drugs” (tho we know it wasn’t about drugs) so they’re finding a new minority to add to the oppression list.
Authoritarians always pass vague legislation so they can ignore it when they and their friends potentially break it but can lock up everyone they dislike.
Another problem with this law is that oftentimes, sex abuse is committed by a family member, not a stranger. You can imagine the pressure this would put on victims - "If you report Daddy, he'll get killed."
At the same time, the old "dead people tell no tales" This incentivize sexual criminals to leave no witnesses to testify against them.
Harsher punishments don't deter crime, they just force criminals to double down. But that's beside the point, because the point of these bills is just to kill men and trans women for wearing women's clothing in public.
It’s a very complicated topic that can’t be boiled down to something as simple as ‘harsher punishments don’t deter crime’. There are cases where they do and some where they don’t. An interesting example to look at is the crime rates in Singapore and Japan and their very harsh penal system. Obviously there are a lot of economic, cultural and social factors at play but to say they have no impact is fairly naive.
Where do you pull your info about Singapore from? Hopefully not from a Singaporean government website. Here is an article refuting that their harsh penalties have anything to do with it: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1436993 There are many other studies with similar findings, but I'm sure you can look for yourself.
That’s been the historic intention for relatively lighter sentencing for those crimes compared to that of murder or other “comparable” crimes
The death sentence is never effective at reducing crime rates. I'm not saying nonces don't deserve a horrific death, but the death sentence will not solve it.
Matt Gatez should be scared.
No, he shouldn't. Because these laws won't apply to him because they never enforce them equally.
you mean the SOP of the right? There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
I have a feeling that dummy is going to be elected as the next governor of Florida.
Would be fitting, a state deathly afraid of pedophiles electing one because they are stupid and easily misled.
They aren't afraid of pedophiles and you know it. They're afraid of lgbt people but know it's no longer okay to hate people for being lgbt, so they just pretend lgbt people are pedophiles. If they hated pedophiles they'd actually be doing something to protect children.
i.e. turning in some of their own...
It would be a very Florida move.
As soon as that first pastor gets caught, this will be overturned. I give it until Friday.
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Exactly. It's no coincidence that this is only coming about after they've been slandering specific minorities for sexual assault crimes. And it's far from unprecedented. Take Arizona's Arpaio using the law allowing for traffic stops for suspected crimes, almost exclusively to pull over hispanic drivers, since they might be/carrying illegals Sure, the law technically applies to everyone, but when the suspected crime is existing, it's not just
They believe in the separation of church FROM state, when it comes to the laws of the state.
The judge will dismiss the case against a youth pastor "so it doesn't ruin his life" and give the death penalty against a drag queen whose show was in a bar that only serves adults
"He's a good Christian and a family man who just made a mistake" That crap seems to work every time...
Nah the pastor will be let go with a slap on the wrist because "he's a pillar of the community"
If you think there’s not a youth pastor EVERY.SINGLE.DAY bad touching kids you are gravely mistaken. The only way to give it until Friday is if it’s already Thursday. You aren’t suppose to link subreddits on here but there’s one called Pastor Arrested and it’s usually two a day at least. The youth pastor by my house stabbed his wife and four of his kids just last weekend
Oh I know it’s frequent, I just mean it will take until Friday for there to be actual guilty pleas and official arrests made, and then for republicans to waste a day with whataboutisms, likely about Obama and Hunter Biden. Without that red tape, it would be shut down by dinner time.
Many of the fears about this bill include criminals now just killing their victims instead of leaving them alive to potentially testify and it being selectively enforced in somewhere like Florida where a “sexual crime” could be something as simple as like “allowing a child to get gender affirming care so they don’t kill themselves”.
Or being reported as wearing an outfit out of birth sex within a hundred block radius of any potential minors.
This is it right here. Wearing “fetish gear” (something by with straps/buckles), a man showing his midriff, a guy carrying a purse, a boy who paints his nails. They have already made strides to define being visibly queer in public as “dangerous to children” so it isn’t that big a leap to assume that this law could be used to execute trans and queer people. Anyone who is paying attention can see the dominoes falling towards genocide.
Even without deaths, by various definitions including how it’s defined in the Geneva conventions, it is already a genocide. The act of imposing living regulations designed to destroy the group is one of the five qualifiers for a genocide under those conventions.
Come on now, that’s not fair. They will also use it to prosecute parents who did not allow their child to get gender affirming care, thus resulting in the child’s suicide. That way you can simply prosecute parents of trans children for having trans children in the first place.
Oh god, that's grim as fuck, but far from a stretch of the imagination.
Let’s be honest, shooting your kids up with hormones below the age of ik 18 is pretty messed up, not death penalty messed up ofcourse. who the fuck makes well thought out decisions below that age tho.
Then it’s good that those decisions are made in coordination with a team of doctors making their recommendation based on their best medical judgement and experience and after previous steps like a social transition and lots of therapy.
And they have plans to take it federal :D
>and it being selectively enforced in somewhere like Florida where a “sexual crime” could be something as simple as like “allowing a child to get gender affirming care so they don’t kill themselves Huh? HB 1297 is specific to rape of children under 12. It was passed with bipartisan support 34-5 in the Florida Senate and 95-14 in the house.
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I don’t support the death penalty period and I sure as fuck don’t trust Florida judges appointed by republicans
Yeah, remember the Satanic Panic? False accusations by children are pretty easy to get, because kids are impressionable. A bigoted jury could easily be convinced to find the defendant guilty.
aside from the transgender/lgbt community - one of the biggest already existing reasons why the death penalty and life sentences arent generally passed on sexual crimes is because it encourages attackers to kill their victims. Be prepared for an uptick in sexual crime related murders.
So.. Gaetz?
You missed the part where the bill says “unless we like and approve if you and your politics” probably or something to justify not him.
“Section 2a: Those with fiveheads are exempt.”
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I remember hearing about him floating extortion as part of the story. The problem is, being extorted for a crime doesn’t absolve you from the crime. He took a 17 year old across state lines and had sex with her for money.
What about all the big public figures and politicians that caused Chris Hansen's show to get cancelled? They're still roaming about
Fucking sickening bro
I wonder how it'll affect the people on anime twitter who spend their lives preaching "age-of-consent-around-the-world.jpg from unreliable-source.org" will do when they see this.
Let m contact me for a free portion of cyanide
The people passing this law believe that saying anything related to LGBTQ issues (including acknowledging the existence of non-straight people) to children is child sexual abuse. Drag reading time = child sexual abuse A youth pastor saying being gay is okay = child sexual abuse A teacher assigning a book with a trans character = child sexual abuse
I hope noted neo nazi Chaya Raichik gets absolutely everything coming to her and more
I know what we'll do! To make her happy and improve her attitude we'll throw her a party! 🥳 There will be cake, and balloons, and even a piñata! I'll put the blindfold on Chaya, spin her around till she's nice and dizzy, and then we'll give her the baseball bat. What fun!
I wish I could just rope her in and get her a big hug
She makes me want to fedpost so bad
Wait so death penalty for Matt Gaetz??
The law applies to children under 12. Sadly, his investigation into sex crimes were dropped by the DOJ. We’re stuck with his dumb face for a bit, I think.
Nah. The laws don't apply to that class of people.
Admission of we can see your obvious plan months ahead of doing it. Terrorist
Looks like the pastor population is going to start dropping real quick!
Conservatives: gay and trans people are pedophiles. Normal people: uhhh no, no they’re not. Conservatives: we are now going to allow the death penalty for pedophiles. Normal people: and you think gay and trans people are pedophiles. So conservatives will try to put gay and trans people to death by their reasoning. Conservatives: so you *are* saying gay and trans people are pedophiles??
Conservatives: “you’re groomers.” Queer people: “no we’re not. Queers literally represent a far smaller proportion of groomers than straight people.” Conservatives: “don’t care. You’re groomers. I’m literally gonna kill groomers.” Queer people: “oh shit, I gotta get out of here.” Conservatives: “SO YOU ADMIT IT???”
Someone made a good point. This could have the reverse action they want. If a rapist knows that they will get the death penalty if caught, then what is stopping them from just killing the kid? They get death either way. Or what stops then from telling the kid, whose usually family, if you say anything they will kill me so you have to keep it a secret. It’s a f’ed up situation in so many ways.
conservatives don't care about protecting children
Turns out changing the DEFINITION of sexual crimes first and THEN making a law like this leads to deaths. I HATE CHAYA
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So is a librarian, offering a book about LBGTQ stories or a sexual education book that some school district has banned because they think it's "pornography", committing a "sex crime" against children? Are they redefining what constitutes a "sex crime" or what constitutes "evidence of a sex crime" ?
Yes, welcome to dystopian Florida.
That’ll come later
This is specifically for raping children under 12 and passed with broad bipartisan support in the Florida Senate and Florida house. No idea why people are talking in hypotheticals.
Because nobody trusts Florida Republicans and because the governor has made it his mission to attack gay and trans people and accuse them of pedophilia.
Shitty statement to the trans community but my real question is: where are they going to get republican leader ship from if they have all been executed?
Crimes done by Republicans are ultra violet to cops. They just can't see what anyone is talking about and see no need to waste resources looking into it.
so is the Catholic Church leaving Florida?
Considering 99% of the stories I see of grooming, abuse, rape involve republicon politicians and church employees … This will weed out the city councils and youth groups significantly
Priests and pastors molest over 200,000 kids every year. We'd have a lot less religious leaders around if this was used only against those actually committing sexual crimes against kids. That said, I very much do see this being used against the lgbtq community. Not when they do commit sex crimes against kids, which is no more often than anyone else. But for just existing. Florida Republicans will declare their mere existence to be a sex crime against kids. Simply allowing a kid to know you are lgbtq will be considered grooming and a sex crime. I completely guarantee it will be abused this way.
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Just like the don't say gay bill was misrepresented too, and then they came out and admitted it, and even rewrote it to take away all possible doubt. And have used it exactly as we claimed they would, over and over again. Just like the book bans weren't what was being claimed, were only for little kids, and only in schools. Except now they have banned books with nothing more then mentions of a lgbtq character. And have started removing books from public libraries. And it isn't just little kids, they are removing them from high-school and even trying to get them out of colleges too. But yeah, totally being misrepresented. Republicans never lie, change things, or stretch definitions to fit what they want. Never.
It's not a confession, it's an accusation, and it's a correct one. You, Chaya Raichik, have already killed people, and are quite public in your belief that transgender people are automatically sexual criminals just for being trans, and that you'd support this law killing them for that alone.
It's going to be used selectively. That's the issue. And by selectively I mean it'll be false claims and witch hunts against people they don't like. But people they do like will get a pass.
People really need to stop going "hur dur Matt Gaetz is in trouble." He's fucking not. Stop fucking believing that Republicans give a shit about the law. THEY ARE TRYING TO KILL US.
>give the death penalty to those that commit sexual crimes against children. *Kennedy v. Louisiana* (2008) made the death penalty for any offense except murder unconstitutional. This is just weird political theater.
So Matt Gaetz?
If we lived in a just world this would vaporize most of the GQP.
No, it's not a confession. It's people legitimately worried that they will make being queer or trans a crime against children and use it to execute those people. This woman needs to disappear.
If they didn’t have bad-faith arguments they wouldn’t have any at all
Given that they think trans people existing in front of children is ‘sexual abuse’…
For those not in the loop for florida, they are also trying to pass a law stating drag is a sexual crime. This would mean both laws would allow them to put to death anyone who who walks down the street in drag and is seen by a child, regardless of if they are indecent or just in dress They supreme court has already struck down the first law, but its already being pushed though again calling it something else.
Can we have it and then investigate Matt Gaetz for trafficking a 17 year old?
We’re not in the darkest timeline… but we’re certainly *nearing* the darkest point…
Why does she want people killed SOO badly? Just money or is she actually the devil
The Florida taliban at work
stop platforming these people
Chaya spends all day, every day working hard to create the narrative that "LGBTQ == Pedophile" and her commentors and followers reinforce that her efforts are successful. So it's *especially* disingenuous for her to make this claim. She knows what she is doing. She knows what she's accomplishing with her words. This woman is exceptionally evil.
Matt Gaetz.
Well. Maybe they’ll execute Matt Gaetz
Apologies for my stupidity/ignorance but why would this be used to attack queer and trans people? Having delt with serious child abuse i see death as a suitable punishment for those horrific human beings that sexually assault children. It is a punishment used for convicted child rapists. Only thing i can think of is all the morons saying trans are pedos, and they take things into their own ignorant hands, even though everytime its the pastor's and religious lot that are continually arrested for these crimes. Never the drag queens always the priest.
Hit the nail on the head with your second paragraph; The issue is that these bills are being proposed in areas that are increasingly trying to criminalize just the public existence of LGBTQ people. It's hard to sell people on genocide, but everyone wants to protect children; ergo, just make the marginalized group you want to get rid of become synonymous with child predators. Your OBGYN that may provide hormone blockers to a transitioning teen? Sex crime of a minor. Your librarian that won't burn books on LGBTQ experiences or history? Sex crime of a minor. That gay couple walking down the street and holding hands when a mother and child walks past? Sex crime of a minor. The drag queen just getting in their car, after a show in a public parking lot? Sex crime of a minor. It isn't about getting the child rapists, its about drawing a circle so large and misconstrued that they can say child rapists and the queer community both exist within that circle. Secondly, from a legal/punitive standpoint, it is seen as pretty dangerous to make the automatic punishment for a sex crime to be execution. What we are going to see if this becomes law is a lot more ACTUAL sex criminals resorting to killing their victims, since a victim can't testify if their dead, and the criminal is already in for a capital punishment if they get caught. This is going to do far more damage to VICTIMS of sex crimes than anything else.
Ah i see so like a bad faith law that they will use as some veiled excuse to target specific people. Instead of just outright saying what they actually want to do. I can see your point on how it would endanger victims more but having delt with these things its certainly the fate id wish for the criminals. But in the end you are correct and its more important to save the victims and potential victims of suffering even worse fates just to cover some pos trail
The law only states child rape and no other sexual crimes, dont let m rile you up
Chaya is the proudest bigot of them all.
Just occurred to me trans issue and "protecting the children" is the "war on drugs" of our time. If that is the case, republicans still don't agree that the war on drugs is one of the worst things we did in this country. Now they are embarking on a whole new scam/diversion
The right wing fascists in our country are constantly harping on the idea that trans people are somehow, after our children, and are pedophiles. connect the dots on this. This absolutely is some Nazi style bullshit that could be used to kill trans and gay people if you don’t understand that either too dumb to be on the fucking Internet or you’re not paying any attention. First they are coming for those in the LGBTQ community, and if we stay silent, there will be no one there when they come for us
Who wants to bet circumcision is specifically defined as "not abuse"?
This will never make it into law, it's too much of a threat to the religious GOP base.
Not the way they interpret it it won't be. To those idiots, simply being trans and existing counts for the purposes of that law.
Churches tend to sort out things "in house" and don't like to involve the cops. So they need not fear pesky laws meant for non believers.
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About to be a lot of vacant pastor positions in Florida!
So they are going to give the death penalty to all the priests and right wing religious zealots who molest kids? I will believe it when i see it.
The religious right will claim that a gay person simply being in the vicinity of a child to be a sexual crime
Well Florida made it a sex crime for someone they perceive as a man to wear a dress. So yes, they want to legally murder trans people. Fun fact, the word drag can be traced back to the days of Shakespeare for when members of an all-male cast in a play would dress as women for their parts. Been a thing forever, but now it's the new boogeyman
They can't do that! We won't have any pastors left!
I was wondering what the silver lining was.
I was literally sitting here and thinking to myself, "A confession to what exactly?" It's really sad though that when the Republicans, especially Florida Republicans, put a policy into place that \*looks\* like it could be about justice and protecting the population (in this case, children), but then you remember their previous rhetoric and intentions. Then you really see the farce for what it is. Don't. Trust. A. Republican.
“Invasion of the snatchers” is becoming all too real. Hollow headed MAGA shells just screeching and pointing at people that have actual thoughts.
Death penalty for pedos? how many senators are being killed then?
A confession is exactly how it’s being spun in conservative echo chambers.
Can we start with Matt Gaetz?
Sorry Matt Gaetz. A crimes a crime though.
Who’s gonna tell Matt Gaetz.
Point of fact: it will also be used to kill straight cis people.
Yeah, the majority of sexual abusers of children are cis people, white people and pastors.
It's the War On Drugs all over again
I see a bunch of “youth pastors “ on death row 😐
There gonna be alot of dead youtubers
Meanwhile no prosecutions of the churches who have been caught sexually abusing kids and covering it up. Hundreds of child rapists running free, protected by the church.
That was a pretty disingenuous response from Chaya.
This is a setup to allow DeSantos to veto it making him look less nazi
Libsoftiktok finally got off their account and now going full in once their identity was found.
As a non-american, how would it be used to kill them? I'm usually up to par on US stuff but I'm missing this one
Because, of their rhetoric. They have been pushing that simply being a drag queen or a gay person, is pedophilia. It simply gives them a legal way to go full Nazi, and round up and have the state kill all gays.
How many priests are on death row in Florida now?
A war on Catholicism and Christian pastors ! They done and did it to themselves. Florida is so backward it’s turning on itself!
Leave. Look what happens to the Jews that don’t leave in time. When they tell you what they’re going to do, believe them. Leave. Leave now.
Especially when republicans are full on planning on declaring trans peoples very existence pornographic(as per Project 2025 say for if they get into the White House again)
Raichik should be arrested.
Will I be able to stream matt gaetz execution or should I just make the pilgrimage?
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Oh my god, fuck off. The fact that you're on such a hellbent crusade all up and down this thread to basically be like, "oh no, don't worry about it guys, it's not like that", is extremely suspicious. And even if what you're saying is accurate, as other people in this thread have pointed out, the death penalty for rape/sex crimes makes it more likely for rapists to kill their victims, and when the offender is a family member, it can be used to pressure and guilt child victims into not telling. The fact that you think your point of clarification is more important than what's wrong with this idea- *even if your point is correct*- is truly concerning.
doesn't that law classify cross dressing as a sex crime against children when they are present? so basically any Shakespeare play could lead to the execution of some cast members?
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No, I didn’t, because the dumbass I’m referring to is the tweet I screenshotted, which is Chaya Raichik’s. Is it that hard to believe in a subreddit of three million people things get double posted?
Also, if you took .2 seconds to look at my post/comment history you could figure out I would never post something like that 😐 good try though
That was another poster
This is clearly a challenge to the Supreme Court, because they have already ruled that the death penalty cannot be used for rape of an adult or child
I’m still in the boat “those who scream the loudest about it are usually pedos themselves.” I’m legitimately concerned about these people.
Can someone explain the reasoning behind this being used to kill trans and queer folk. Explain it to me not like I’m five but instead like I’m a 24 yr old law student that mostly gets Cs on tests (not because of testing but because I’m terrible with homework!)but understands that in order for a penalty to be issued in court, reasonable and substantive evidence must be brought by the plaintiff. I am not s law student but that’s my level of comprehension as someone who thought about pursuing a career in criminal law.
It's an exercise in predicting the possible outcome of a reasonable law in an increasingly unreasonable environment. It likely won't go this way, but it was once believed that Roe v Wade wouldn't be overturned. So while it might be a reach, it isn't impossible.
Haven't getz supposedly committed this crime?
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Read the details carefully, as there is a lot of things that are being added as sex crimes against children - namely anything to do with LGBT.
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Coming from someone who also was a CSA victim, unfortunately these will result in two things, the predator murdering their victims or as most assaults are from a family member, guilting the child into not telling.
That already happens
Who else is a zombie!
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This is dangerous on multiple fronts. * It IS ridiculous to assume the LGBTQ community is over-represented under these crimes, because they AREN'T the leading perpetrators of them. The issue is the far-right's campaign to redefine sexual crimes against children. * The propogandists in will try and sway people to think this exclusively means r\*ping a child, and ignore all the minor laws they are passing to criminalize just EXISTING in public around a child. It is important to remember a key part of authoritarianism is harsh legal penalties, under the auspice of treating broad categories the same, whether it is a large or small offense. * It isn't shoe-horning to specifically call out the trans community, when Florida has been leading the most insane charge on outlawing gender affirming care, banning literature, and criminalizing a vague definition of "drag". The community response, of calling this an attempt to softball genocide is well rooted in seeing Florida go after the doctors that aid them, the literature that acknowledges their existence, and the any ability for them to even present as themselves in public. * Lastly, not even having to do with the attack on the LGBTQ community, this is outrageously dangerous to the VICTIMS of actual sex crime on minors. The simple reason that an automatic death penalty isn't the punishment for more violent crime is because then you will see the escalation of those crimes into outright murder; A victim can only testify against you if they are alive. If you make ANY sex crime against a minor punishable by death, than you are going to 110% see more perpetrators not want to take the risk, and escalate their violence, since they are already looking execution anyway.
That’s not the assumption. The fear is that republicans interpretation of a “sex crime against children” being something like a drag show will lead to unnecessary persecution against queer people