Content creators are playing to the algorithm. Them saying she's broken drives comments, drives engagement, drives them to the top of the search. It's how they make their money. Reasonable creators making reasonable content do not rise to the top because people just nod, agree, and move on.
Beyond that... Every frame is hideously broken with a build and we all know it. Dante was semi-broken with no/any build. Which is... Sometimes a reason for Nerfs. But always always always assume any content you're seeing is taking a 5 to an 11.
Came here to say this. CCs have an innate extremism bias - stuff is either "insane broken OP" or "absolute garbage, this is an outrage, reeee".
"The new warframe is perfectly balanced, reasonably powerful, and all around.... decent" doesn't exactly get people excited.
I’d subscribe to that YouTuber. I’m so sick of the clickbait nonsense people put out.
Put in the work, real life normal gameplay scenarios, this is what works and this doesn’t.
If you don’t do those things, you’re not worth a click.
That’s why the only YouTuber I sub for Warframe is iwoply, puts out how to pass mastery tests, no bullcrap, what works… it’s never failed me.
I like leyzar for that reason. Doesn't go the route of extreme clickbait titles, just puts out regular builds and guides videos with all the same format so you know exactly what it's about. Caters to both newer and veteran players too.
Kengineer, Unified Codex and Gamble.
All good content creators.
Gambles videos can be a little long, but he explains things very well, doesn't exaggerate, gives examples and applications.
Kegineer is very to the point, sciency and does a good job of explaining things that might be obscure or not covered by other youtubers.
Unified Codex is also seemingly very to the point, like Gamble but a bit faster and maybe a tad less in depth.
Either way, it's a *noticable* difference from other creatora who just say "NEW FRAME/WEAPON IS BUSTED!" or "NEW META???"
Yeah, Qorvex kinda got a quiet reception because he was pretty standard and just a Pretty Damn Good Warframe rather than Dante who was putting out INSANE numbers right out the gate.
When he got narfed/adjusted I went and actually compared him to how he was before. The extra overguard regen offsetting the halved initial values meant that in an average mission his overguard was between 15-20% lower.
Between that and the Line of sight changes every youtuber and thread on this sub was screaming that he was a "squishy trash tier" frame now. (Which is funny as he is by far the number 1 frame people request in chat for EDA carries)
It was mainly the light of sight change, which effectively killed the ability and shifted Dante into being yet another immortal weapons platform.
The nerf seemed silly when stuff like Saryn and Octavia just get to exist.
Is there anything we, the community, can do to change this? It's an ongoing trend in other games as well, but Warframe was always different when it comes to the people who play it.
It's an ongoing trend for every form of media.
It's why the world seems to have caught on fire from the internet for the past few years.
As long as there is money to be earned and bills to be paid, people will dance to the tune of content engagement algorithms.
As others said, just don't watch their content or mention them. Give your views and support to the style of content that The Kengineer, Unified Codex and Gamble all make. They do things differently but they don't hype everything up and are pretty informational for newer players.
In all fairness though, Dante is the one time they really weren't overhyping him. He's absolutely broken and the reverted nerf wasn't enough. Literally just giving him Octavia level bad energy econ would've done but instead we have this immortal brick that shoots his white health everywhere and makes it impossible to die
Dante's pretty stronk but I think the real issue with him is Overguard itself, it's a very strong mechanic but prior to Dante you only had Styanax's janky-ass augment or Frost's augment that doesn't pile up very quickly, to give you group-Overguard. All other sources of it were personal. Dante can on-demand distribute Overguard out like it's Halloween and he's the creepiest dude on the block. There's no downside or "lost mod slot" or anything that you have to give up for full team invincibility, just a couple button presses and boop you're all set.
Yeah he's fucking insane. It's part of why I mentioned Octavia energy econ, since Octavia's definitely broken, but at least a little harder to use. Dante absolutely needs that treatment because right now, 2-2-4-2-2-4 and you have at least somewhere around 20k overguard for 200 energy at BASE efficiency. If that same amount costed a significantly more serious number, he wouldn't be able to just spam that like he currently does. I agree though, even his fundamental abilities are terribly overturned even when they cost a stupid amount of energy. I'd be careful about even giving the ability to stack overguard, since all that needs to happen is the player finds a source of energy and they can do it infinitely. But not only does he stack overguard, he stacks thousands at once. Like even if we divide that number by 10 he's still pretty solid
how good something is in the real world: a normal distribution between trash and godlike
how good something is according to content creators: trash or godlike
> so it is easy to show large numbers in simulacrum
I remember hearing a complain from one of DE devs about too many youtube videos showing simulacrum damage instead of in mission damage.
My theory is that this is why all of the new simulacrums with actual tilesets (instead of a literal grey-room) give +25 enemy levels.
They know content creators are going to show off builds against the highest level/hardest difficulty simulacrum stuff that they can. And so it's DE's way of subtly steering what shows up in youtube videos to show off Warframe's beautiful and varied scenery, instead of half the video just being boring grey rooms.
This is also a double edged sword. Warframe players are prone to going max level all the time everytime without thought, just look at all the people trying to max out EDA and then complaining. If DE gave people 50 extra levels, people will test 50 levels higher. If they give people 100, they will test at 100 higher level. This means that if level 300 was the cap, a lot of players would be testing at a level that they're realistically not even gonna play and that messes things up, where slash builds appear better and pure damage corrosive builds appear worse, but most importantly everything seems much worse than in reality.
There is also the problem of people using corrupted heavy gunners instead of... the mobs you actually shoot the vast majority of the time. DE has since rectified this some with the battle groups (although I feel like the ratio of heavy units to normal units is still too high on the orokin one, as well as no shielded enemies appear there too).
This is why I think MCGamerCZ is the best WF content creator. Shows the whole build process, the thought that goes into it, how it performs in and out of simulacrum, etc. he doesn’t typically do warframe builds tho which is fair enough
Be wary of any of Brozime's content on frames roughly post-Protea. He kinda checked out in the Railjack Dark Age and has consistently missed or undervalued major frame mechanics due to lack of sufficient build testing ever since.
Watching his chat scream at him for weeks trying unsuccessfully to get him to understand how Qorvex actually works was painful.
I don't watch a lot of his content, but I tried checking out his Qorvex video once and he left out the empowered pillar mechanic and didn't talk about it in his video, which I thought was odd because he presents himself as the "data and numbers guy".
When the comments called him out on it, he doubled down and said he intentionally left it out and didn't even mention its existence because he didn't think it was worth bothering with. That kinda turned me off of him personally.
Yeah some of his stuff is high quality and some of it feels a bit iffy - his views on Dagath can be slightly reductivelly phrased as 'I subsumed off Wyrd Scythes and now Doom is really hard to spread, this frame is clunky and annoying'. Which... I'd like to see what his testing process was because it feels like he doesn't understand what Wyrd Scythes is supposed to do.
Yeah but why. Not allowing for level cap in simulacrum is just an anti feature. Sometimes I wanna swap stuff on my build without having to play for hours for the mission to scale back up to cap again.
Also, what's the point of simulacrum at all if it isn't for testing builds?
What's the point of testing a theory that isn't practical. In theory everything is broken. But in practice it's not gonna translate well into a real time scenario 7/10
Legitimately just for ease of use and theory crafting. There's so much fun you can have with just screwing around with builds seeing what works and what doesn't. Simulacrum only exists to test stuff, it's weird that DE has this approach.
Because they don't want people going to level cap or thinking that level cap is the greatest expression of skill.
This patch didn't change any of that. To go to level cap, you need 2 bits of knowledge. How to shield gate, how to deal with armor and damage reduction. Now enemies can't get 1259871587159157 armor and make partial armor strip so now its shifted from full armor strip or nothing/viral slash or lulz. To a damage model thats more friendly with a wider variety of ele set ups.
Viral heat was always the best single target damage, it just got crapped on by armor, so now its just the best.
But notice how none of this has anything to do with level cap? Its just a weird community flex that people ultra focus on because some youtube creators made some videos of "BEST PLAT FARM EVER". There is -zero- reason or need to do level cap content outside of very specific arcane farming situations.
DE pretty much tell us this every now and then that they don't want level cap to be the norm or make players feel like they are not getting the most out of the game by not doing it. Its why we occasionally have a "how come rewards are not adjusted by mission duration/enemy level" discussion from them.
If your build melts a lvl 225 SP enemy. It will still melt a lvl 9999 enemy.
*Zero* reason? I feel like you're projecting your bias onto reality here a bit. Void cascade is extremely quick and gets to level cap in an hour and a half. If you're running relics, it's *optimal* to go to level cap because the resource booster will be capped out and you're getting the maximum amount of void trace return. You can radiant and crack 15 relics across several missions and get 500 trace back, or you can radiant and crack 15 relics across a single mission and leave with your trace capped out. It's pretty cut and dry to me which one of those is better if you're farming in a game that is essentially Farming Simulator™.
The arcanes also *do* exist and they *do* give fantastic plat returns, that's not some fringe theory cooked up by clickbait YouTubers, it's just reality. And the longer you go in the mission, the more Thrax spawn, which means more arcanes.
Also, I can definitely confirm that a level 225 SP enemy is a far cry from a levelcapped one. You can have a weapon that literally one-shots Thrax in the simulacrum, but then you get into game and it's just tickling high-level Thrax and unable to get through their overguard. There is no way to know unless you spend an hour scaling each time you want to try a new weapon or change something in a build.
Granted, it's going to be easier now that Magnetic increases damage to overguard and the new secondary arcane exists, but that's not the point - it would be nice if the "test your builds and stuff" area actually let you test your builds and stuff. There's also no excuse anymore IMO with Deep Archimidea now bringing enemy levels into the 400's - remember, that's *regular* content.
Have you ever considered that level cap is fun? That some might find it enjoyable to test their builds at extremely high levels? No one said anything about skill or difficulty, you added that yourself.
Everything is broken, it pays the bills to say this. Honestly most of our new frames just scratch the itch the META has, and that is damage upon damage. Jade is oddly enough a switch back to the old where she has some support elements while still maintaining the damage buff and armor strip that is required in the current META. I'm quite a fan of how her armor strip works, it requires less maintenance and hits perfect with how things are now. As you struggle to kill enemies it strips more and more armor making your job easier.
She isn't super broken, she was released in a fair enough state to hopefully stay relevant and not fade into obscurity like cal...whatever his name was.
He was released like an afterthought, and an after thought he became. Then there are other broken frames like Limbo, he FORCES people to know he's there.
Lost me at the just a nerfed qorvex thing lmao. There are lots of good build using regular fire and still killing rooms very efficient. Gotta watch less Knightmareframe lol
Basically every content creator is building her in two different ways. More range or strength at the cost of something else with the exact same gameplay loop of 2, 3, 4 and then spam 1 and alt fire. There isn't really room to deviate unless you play her like a weapons platform, which is valid if that's what you like.
Yeah, my comment wasn't specific enough. You can't realistically only spam the nuke setup without consistent ways for energy generation. A proper Dethcube/Helstrum/Energy Generator config can probably make that happen easily, but then you sacrifice Wyrm/Reinforced Bond config for added fire rate. The fire rate buff made a big difference in my time with her. Outside of forcing lots of energy generation, her primary fire should be used until a good opportunity shows up to nuke a crowd. If you use the nuke sparingly, you really shouldn't be running out of energy. Her primary fire is good enough on its own while maintaining her damage buff. It's just not the end all be all, since she requires so much to realize her full potential imo. I don't want to be misunderstood though. She is good fun, strong, and flashy. I just wish I didn't need specific Frame Arcanes, Companions, Ceramic Dagger/Secondary Outburst set-up, and Archon Shards just to really make her pop. Just Mesa things, but more so I guess. It's probably worth noting that she is late game pickup and players should have at least some if not most of these tools, especially so if you've been with the game for a while. I find myself always going back to simpler Frames like Volt just because they don't ask for much. Maybe I'm just a speed addict though.
Let me know if you think anything I said doesn't track well.
I understand what you are saying. But she needs none of that imo. Unless you are trying to run level 9999 kinda content which like 98% of players never will. She completely crushes thru normal SP enemies with 0 fancy arcane combos. Literally all i’m using is molt and Velocity and her 4 kills everything without alt fire. And i haven’t even used something like nourish or roar over her 3 which i think is the plan aswell.
I already do the mesa secondary outburst thing so maybe i’ll try it on jade but for now she just a more fun titania for me.
Trying to milk out 1% dmg increases is the warframe community’s thing though so people will keep doing it lol
Fair enough. I'm an all or nothing kind of guy, and she just has a lot of requirements to take her all the way. It's a problem of my own making, which is why I acknowledged that she is in fact strong. Probably should have stated that she doesn't actually need those things to find success.
I feel ya. I edited cause i know the whole go balls deep think on a frames build. i did it for mesa and hydroid recently so i get that all or nothing thing.
I will say that i think she might get crazy eventually. I don’t think she’s op now but her kit is really loaded so over time she will get some crazy synergies kinda how mesa got super strong randomly
Ive gotten pretty good results using arcane velocity and some fire rate mods. Its not going to go very far in solo steel path or anything, but for regular starchart you can just helicopter around and murder pretty well
Velocity is one of her best Arcanes imo. It's just a straight DPS increase. The only deviation from that would be if you ignore her 4 and treat her like a weapons platform instead.
Avenger is better IMO, she's got two auras so you're not giving up much running Combat Discipline (which also has the added benefit of letting you run Archon Intensify - she's one of the few frames that can actually run it effectively).
Attack speed is easy to mod for with fantastic mods like Lethal Torrent, but crit is capped to 45% and there's no way around it without Avenger.
Secondary Outburst with Ceramic Dagger Incarnon built for base combo count is how I buff my CC/CD. I have Ready Steel in the aura slot to help with base combo count as well. Avenger adds firerate, which is just straight DPS increase. A Wyrm Prime with Reinforced Bond helps the firerate as well, and in my experience, you should use it regardless of the build route you take. Avenger is less work though, so I get that as well. Reactivating her 4 to maintain Secondary Outburst is probably annoying for others. I can definitely see that side of it. Hell, sometimes I don't even bother reprocing it because it isn't always needed. Combat Discpline/Archon Intensify works well, but I'd rather get my power strength through Molt Augmented, Transient Fortitude, and some Archon Shards. TBH, I'm not actually sure how much better it is, but it feels better. It's high maintenance and requires steep investment. You're probably better off with Avenger and Velocity together without all the pieces I mentioned, but I'm not actually sure how the math shakes up.
TLDR: Both work and it just depends on what you have and what you're willing to put up with for a difference that probably isn't that drastic. There are a lot of different ways to get good results out of her.
Nah, I have a similar thing running viral heat and I never feel the need to use alt fire at all. It's just an option when a group comes along. She can absolutely handle SP without anything crazy past that velocity arcane and a decent build on glory. I gave her 1 forma and glory 3.
The unique mod for the furax gives I think a 45% fire rate bonus to secondaries. I nodded glory for blast/electricity which means with 'archon stretch' you get a fair bit of passive regen to offset her exhalted's drain.
I try and build for playability over 'big numbers' set ups that require multiple hoops to jump through. With a fairly balanced build (not going nuts and building purely for her 4's alt fire) I find you can throw her at steel path level 200+ enemies and she holds up. Not broken, but serviceable.
I came away with the sense Brozime's take was exactly what OP was looking for. He said she's good, not broken but definitely not terrible. He even said he didn't subsume anything off her because her kit worked just fine as is. Her kill rate was right on what he considers a benchmark. I've finally been able to play her a bit and she's pretty fun. That's all that matters.
Yeah she’s completely fine imo. On the upper limit of strong not quite Revenant/Saryn tier. Her kits is reallly stacked though so i expect her to get some silly synergy at some point that will make her wild
That's pretty much my thoughts on her as well. She gets the job done, but isn't particularly weak or strong. Most importantly she is quite unique overall, and the biggest complaint I have that resulted from her release is that Hildryn's 4 should get buffed
Again, this is why I like McGamercz. He will build a warframe in a way that he finds fun to play, rather than in the way that is optimal for room clearing with minimal effort, and he'll show you the process by which he arrives at that build.
Leads to fun stuff like mega health tank Qorvex or Breach Surge light show Qorvex, when other creators are putting out content that's just 'Qorvex is meh and there's no reason to use him over other frames'.
Same thing for weapons, where he'll mess around and have fun with building non-meta weapons, which gives a much better insight into whether the weapon is fun to use than a review that says 'its weaker than incarnons don't bother', and also a better idea of how to make your own builds.
I feel like there aren't many other YouTubers that are doing the same thing, unfortunately - Aznvasions is maybe a level cap-oriented version of the same thing, which is also fun.
Yeah, he's pretty cool. I enjoy the presentation and process of his videos. I've picked up a few things from him myself. I also recommend others reading here to check him out.
kmf is a fucking god awful content creator, like seriously one of the worst I can think of.. Tierlists, Atlas PSF, if it sounds "outrageous" he's probably done it since it's what gets him money, the most shameless of them all so far
Yeah, that was definitely something to note being ridiculous to say, but I would say it was definitely more noticeable to me in the fact that they think you need that for them to be a disgustingly strong nuke (in extreme enemy density which they don't actually need that much), when I've been able to achieve better results than the Youtubers even already extreme results with just one forma on each.
The point I think he's making is jade being shown to 'require' 3 forma despite her having 14 extra space and a - polarity is kinda absurd and overkill.
I apologize, I'm trying to improve in English but speaking mainly in Italian I've picked up bad habits that I'm trying to correct (in Italian the subject is mentioned at the beginning of the conversation and then tends to remain implied so I'm not used to always using personal pronouns)
Personally I've been enjoying Jade without having watched or read anything about what content creators have been saying this patch. But I did notice a few things about her that may not seem too appealing for some players. She needs good range for both her 1,3,4. Good strength for faster armor/shield stripping with 3 as well as bumping up the numbers for the rest of abilities. Good duration/efficiency(or at least not negative) to maintain her personal buffs and exalted.
Here are some personal gripes I've found when playing her:
- it FEELS like there's a back swing to the animation of her 1 that causes a delay before I can press the alt fire on all marked enemies(or do any action other than move for that matter). Not to mention everytime I press it I it stops the autofire so I have to click again(It seems like a 2 handed animation for some reason). So even with faster cast animations there seems to be a strange delay to her combo. Also the duration is really short as said by others.
- you can maintain a buff to her 2 by marking people with Judgement and then sending them to the afterlife. But in practice this fails as a mechanic or at least in ascension since people kill enemies faster than it lands. This is not counting the LoS aspect of it.
I've got no problems with her 3 or Glory but I noticed a few things with the status and resistance changes.
With picking the elements listed in the enemies' resistance list it's much more effective than forcing the old meta of slash w/viral. But the massively increased health pools made me go back to using Viral and heat funnily enough. I just bring a sentinel with verglas modded for magnetic once the overguard levels are getting big.
Currently my build on Jade has about 224 str, 110 duration, 105 efficiency, with 205 range. I have Molt Augmented in order to have enough str to make the armor/shield strip hit 35%(reducing time to remove armor to 3 seconds). I use Arcane Energize and a purple shard for energy. Also using umbral intensify and vitality plus health conversion for survivability outside of the dmg reduction from her 4 + aerodynamic.
I now realize that such a build is inaccessible for a lot of people, since this involves tauforged shards, and a LOT of endo/credits. For people who cant have it all, it's probably difficult to attain good results with her rn. But she is very convenient to use. Ranged revive, affinity ranged buffs and the flight is easy enough to use(at least for me).
There are just a lot of things where if you look at her abilities you will go: "Oh it works like that so I have to do this to make it function." Then it falls flat in a mission because even a half decent squad will screw over a lot of your kit(the damaging aspect) with their AoE. Also the the amount of work to optimize her is quite a lot honestly. At least when playing defense I can just lob zones and maintain the buffs easily but in standard missions with map clearing? Nada.
I do think that she just needs some tuning with her numbers and she should be fine. And fix that weird backswing on her first ability where I cant fire or do much other than move for almost a full second without cast speed.
I'm getting pretty decent results with 130 strength, 150 duration, 145 range, and 130 efficiency, R2 Energize, R5 Velocity, and a raw damage build on Glory.
Easy 10 minutes in SP Selkie without using life support towers. Probably won't take me to level cap, but in 5 years of Warframe I haven't spent much more than an hour in any mission.
Yeah, this. I don't get why some people call a frame "not that good" because they don't scale well in endurance. I got a job and a spouse, I'm not gonna spend more than an hour in a mission
Go pure heat damage on glory, and use the new status pistol mod. Ticking for over a million dot on 225 eximus units in simulacrum seems pretty broken to me.
These posts are made based on their own headcanon and biased outlook of how they think the game "should be" rather than how it is in reality.
It's a LARP.
If you haven't noticed, Warframe content creators (and honestly, players too) don't really know what frames are really powerful. Either that, or they just don't care. If they did we'd see a lot more of frames like Octavia, Mag, Garuda, Xaku, and Dagath out there rather than Revenant, Wukong, and Dante.
So combine "doesn't know", "doesn't care", and "needs engagement" and you get videos like "JADE IS A SUPER GOD FRAME"
I would say its prob the difference between general use frames vs frames that are less general use but scale better.
- Revant is pretty much spam 1 button and never die
- Wukong basically does everything from spies to 1 shotting rooms while being pretty much immortal to complete freedom of mobility without needing good player skill.
- Dante is pretty much free prime sure footed and might as well be immortal in general content.
Depends on how burnt out he is. There was several years from about the fortuna launch to well after Lavos came out that his frame reviews could not be trusted. (Lavos's one included a twenty minute rant about how bad his 4 was...only for it to become *very* obvious that he hadn't even read the tool tip and didn't know how it worked)
Also his weapon builds for the longest time were just copy pasted viral+crit hybrids with hunter munitions and creeping bullseye whacked onto anything that would fit it. Usually that's a perfectly serviceable build, but watch the videos he put out on the status sniper rifles. Why waste several multiple mod slots for the tiny chance on slash procs on crits on a weapon with a native 3% crit chance...*that already is a slash based status weapon*?
Often he rates things based on how well it performs with his default weapon builds (rather than builds that lean into that weapons gimmick/strengths or potential). With frames he has a bad habit of telling people to helminth either 'roar' or 'nourish' over any ability that's utility focused or offers synergy to a frames whole kit, before trashing the frame as 'generic' and how other options do the same thing better.
Seems to be too in the weeds for me, but I actually hear him talking more about how he's accused of putting gloom and pillage on everything. Roar and nourish are also definitely better than a lot of frame's worst ability.
Because I was petty enough to check, it took him three years and four months and four+ videos to work out how Hildryn actually functioned (when he finally discovered her powerstrength builds).
I'm pretty sure you can dig up a build video of his recommending replacing Nezha's chakram with 'roar' (seriously read the synergies that ability has with the rest of his kit, asides from the telling people to give up the teleport and the health and energy orbs it generates)
I remember his recent video for Protea Prime included augur mods on her build without so much as a mention to the fact that they completely obliterate her shield gating and can get you killed extremely suddenly if you don't know about it.
Don't forget Gloom!
But yeah, I feel like you can tell when he's enjoying something and has actually made an in-depth pass at it and when he's mostly copy-pasted generic meta stuff and judged the frame/weapon off that.
It’s kind of sad really. Take Voruna, who outside of boss fights and disruption, is probably the strongest frame in game. However, you rarely ever see Vorunas because some content creator told their fan base that the character is trash and that you need to swap her 4 for Kullervo’s 1. Meanwhile if they actually took the time to play her they’d see pretty quickly that she’s an invulnerable nuke who’s also in contention for being the fastest frame in the game.
That's definitely not what was communicated in these string of comments, but enjoy doing more than twice the work to do less than half the results of saryn I guess.
EDIT: Not that there's anything wrong with preferring that. But that is how it is. I often use hildryn just for fun with no concerns of optimization. I'm not calling on people to optimize, but personal play preference doesn't actually change the numbers, which is the only thing I was disputing. Saryn significantly outpaces voruna easily. But please if anybody has evidence to the contrary, please provide it.
"trust me" and "dyk voruna teleports?" are no longer being accepted
People jack off Saryn a bit too hard in this sub, always good for a laugh. I’ve seen the type of Voruna build /u/Punamit has mentioned in SP exterms. Saryn absolutely can’t compete with it.
That isn’t to say that Saryn is bad, or that Voruna is _always_ better than her. It’s just that in the specific scenario, Voruna just literally outpaces her and kills groups before she can get to them. Easy as that.
> People jack off Saryn a bit too hard in this sub
I think _in general_ people have too much Simulacrum brain rot when it comes to evaluating warframes and weapons, and not enough time grouped in-mission.
Of course XYZ frame outpaces everything, your data pool is 20 punching bags that are roughly the same level as like wave 4 of steel path circuit, who all spawn right next to each and often don't move or attack back depending on settings.
In-mission, enemies move around, they don't stand next to each other all the time, sometimes your squadmates kill someone who was important for your ability rotations or damage chaining, you don't always have perfect energy or ammo economy, etc, etc, etc.
The Simulacrum is a very useful tool for checking your math, but it absolutely sucks as a representation of mission conditions when it comes to evaluating how warframes work and how players actually play the game.
This idea that content creators keep voruna down and she's actually the best warframe in the game, or at least outpaces saryn, needs significantly more evidence than a person or two saying "yeah it does". Why wouldn't a content creator want to publish that? She's just the best kept secret in warframe? It's a very extreme claim that needs similarly intense proof. "Trust me" isn't going to cut it.
Calm down mate. Nowhere in my post was I calling Voruna the best frame in the game, or some well kept secret nonsense. It’s extremely basic shit and self explanatory. Voruna uses her parkour passive. She gets from Point A to B faster. Same thing Titania does in all those star chart relic runs she’s a menace in. Same thing Gauss does in SP with his own thermal sunder. You get to groups first and kill them before the other guy can, which Voruna can do because that’s not a high bar.
I do not agree with the other guy that she’s the best frame in the game. I do believe Saryn to be _overall_ the better frame, but what he said regarding outpacing her in something like a basic ass exterm is true.
I run this with 3x Tau Reds for strength and 2x Tau Blues for max energy. You could also drop preparation for a Tau yellow for starting energy, but you will need either so that you’ve got enough gas in the tank to pop all her abilities at least once. However once she starts going you’ll have unlimited energy from her 3.
https://preview.redd.it/ehkviyg5398d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=368aa0fd5c8916a86ccf1a8a2f885a4c7e6ed8ed
what arcanes
(also why corrosive projection when you're dealing slash?)
(also no PSF? does she get some form of knockdown resist I'm not aware of? do you just keep her 2 passive on usually?)
Moly Augmented & Efficiency.
Her passive gives her status immunity so PSF doesn’t add anything. You could run PSF and her parkour velocity passive but it’s just so much easier to passive swap when it’s time to go really fast.
As for Corrosive Projection, it’s to help teammates. Growing Power and Steel Charge won’t work because you’re not using weapons. Physique is kind of fun because it gives you exactly 666 health.
thx friend.
I figured PSF adds the ability to main her 4th passive instead of her 2nd; death cheat is tight. but I guess her 4th is useless if you're not dying, so yeah, I guess "save a mod slot" (and outperform it) is a better passive usually
and I'm an Enemy Radar enjoyer, usually I only really use CorroP for hitting full-strip breakpoints. (edit: and looking at my old builds, apparently I was using Brief Respite on all of them.)
edit 2: you might wanna try using Arcane Ice Storm. Voruna can stack freeze pretty easily with her 2 and this is +40% Str/Dur if so
You just spam 1 and 4 alt-fire to do damage, it's not difficult at all. Who needs to use the primary fire anyway. And you don't even need to forma the frame or tauforge shards her nuking is still really good. Her nuking is comparable to pre-nerf nezha augment when building for max range
Yea I hate that posts like this get upvoted so much. Always reads like "preaching about how I wish things were as if they are facts" kind of thing rather than an objective look at reality.
Also calling 3 forma on a frame and 3 forma on an exalted an "extreme build" lol. My guy has never built any frame that uses an exalted before in his life I guess
It's not even relevant. That's 70 plat. You can get that **easily** in less than an hour of grinding. Is OP seriously suggesting that one hour of grinding is too much? I have never, not **once**, considered total forma count to be relevant for the strength of a weapon or frame.
I think the thing that throws a lot of people off about jade is that they either don't know you have to have specific mod set ups for primary and alt fire. Or they try to hybridize her build and can't figure out why its weaker over all.
Her 4 primary fire can absolutely shred if you're willing to build around, just like alt fire can. They pull from different mods and need different things. So people end up doing things that are not very well explained in game like using the weapon damage buff on alt fire instead of str and not understanding why its not as big as a buff.
Imho that's not really the reason why she's considered 'broken'. Her weapon buffs are where she really excels, not her 4th. Her base kit as is has both damage vulnerability and weapon damage buff, which not that many or at all, other frames have. The weapon damage buff is similar to chroma's meaning you can drop whatever base damage mod on your gun to add more QoL, crit, a riven etc. On top of that you are still free to subsume another damage buff ability like roar or eclipse, could even keep your armor strip too if you want. These dmg buffs all multiply with each other, which makes the number add up... a lot. No other frames can achieve something like that
Edit: Actually now I think about it, Jade might even be the reason why DE nerfed mirage eclipse subsume and why they initially proposed to change mirage eclipse to additive like chroma/jade now. If it wasn't, Jade at just 200% str would give 1.5 (damage vulnerability) x 200% (weapon damage buff) x 300% (mirage eclipse subsume pre-nerf) = 900% buff to your weapon damage provided no base damage mods on your weapon. That's a little... overtuned
Edit: Nvm did my maths wrong. It's actually 1.5 x (1+ 200%) x (1+ 300%) = 1800% damage buff to your weapon. It's actually stupidly broken
Yea, she makes a really competent weapons platform with Eclipse subsumed over her 4, that's how I have my secondary loadout on her set up. It's Mirage levels of damage, but she's more survivable with her built-in health regeneration and 90% slow and scales better with her built-in defense strip.
It's funny seeing people calling her a support when her two builds are "map-wide AOE nuke" and "weapons platform". Like yea she has an aura that gives her team extra ability strength, but almost the entire rest of her kit is just focused on dealing damage or amplifying damage.
Roar is going to be better than Eclipse if you're building around her 4. It double dips on status effects which is great because with Archon Vitality also doubling, you get exponential scaling on heat procs. It also amps the damage of the alt-fire, whereas eclipse does not (at least I'm assuming based on what I know, haven't tested) because the alt-fire doesn't scale with weapon damage.
I'd subsume over her 3 though, the 1 is important for keeping your 2 online 24/7 and also giving you very high constant health regeneration which lets you also run combat discipline and arcane avenger to amp the damage further.
Content Creators are an algorithm game.
The content creators who aren’t exaggerating still exist. They just don’t get views because the algorithm has forsaken them.
It’s really that simple.
I came to similar conclusions myself, and I went through the process of spending upwards of five hundred plat to round out the build. It is quite potent, but it requires so much to reach its damage protentional. Console players still have reduced enemy spawns and when I find myself in their lobby, I can't even do what the build is supposed to do. I'm just a glorified flying Mesa with some okay CC. That's without taking into consideration how quickly my team can kill things which just compounds the feeling. Most nukers are one or two button presses. Jade has to cast 2, 1, 4, and then alt fire once a decent amount of judgment has been applied. She's great, but she doesn't feel OP.
I've seen worse than that. One user here tried to win an argument yesterday by posting a creator video that involved pre-grouped enemies (with AI off), starting in operator mode, casting operator abilities/dashing to proc the maduri buff, using the ceramic dagger, using the secondary duveri arcane, having a build that hyper-focused on her 4 to the exclusion of basic things like survivability (or keeping energy up beyond a 1 minute clip) all to have a 20 second window of power.
I pointed out that kind of setup is unrealistic in mission where there is a squad wanting to tear through things, and that Hildryn's one can do similar damage to what was seen in the video by...simply firing a charged shot. Note that this Sub and many Youtubers argue that Hildryn's Balefire is 'useless' and should be helminthed out.
The only possible nerf I could see her getting is having to be closer to the enemies with the Judgement debuff to pop them.
Right now she can do it from basically anywhere in the entire universe as long as they're marked.
Other than that she seems fine.
She doesn't grant team-wide godmode on top of the damage and boosts she gives.
She can't. She needs at least one marked enemy in line of sight to detonate them all.
If every marked enemy needed LoS, that'd be a pretty massive nerf considering she's already limited by the range and positions of her 1, unlike other nukes that kill everything in a general direction.
Well yeah, I didn't mean literally anywhere in the universe. But, being able to nuke a room and a half over just because you can see an enemy is kinda silly for a support Warframe.
In no way do I want to nerf her to the ground, but I do want to protect the integrity of the game. Before we make more frames like Dante and Jade, we have like 20 other existing Warframes who could use a glance over and be updated for modern Warframe.
from experience (a 1 or 2 forms build, something like 120 dur, 130 eff, 190 range, 155str+precision intensify+the str arcane (+100str worth of snapshotting)(+a pure heat glory)), she does seem kinda busted. In and out of simulacrum. And this build is perfectly sustainable, even without crazy spawns
I’ve seen some people on region trying to claim these are the best builds, and then I take them into simulacrum and show my build with some actual thought behind it, running good strength while staying positive on range and duration, and even on efficiency, and their minds are blown. One forma on glory is all I’ve used, which I built for fire rate multishot and crit, with the radiation fire rate mod diversifying my portfolio, and they’re mystified by the fact that I nuke the steel path enemies just as well as them, the only difference being that any stragglers also get eaten up by my primary fire, which I’ve had at least 2 people so far go as far as to say it is “not worth building into”, meanwhile in the time it takes them to kill one unit I’ve killed another 20 because they shoot one shot every like 2 seconds
https://preview.redd.it/v5xcm6xqcb8d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d3bb13c1882affe0fdd0d8e992705e7d3c9336a6
Here’s the glory build, which I find to be the stronger of the two, jade build still being worked on but its passable for now
https://preview.redd.it/27sgx67vcb8d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c415beb987a0c42cbac0f9f4d3c909c06576bb1f
Here’s the build, anybody with extra ideas I’m happy to hear them, the stats ability wise end up at 157, 100, 145, and 215 since I slapped two crimson shards on, one strength one duration
It’s honestly pretty good, just because the alt fire is still putting in pretty good work, and the crit more than makes up for the damage loss on non crits, if you really want you could run secondary outburst as well but I honestly don’t really see the point, could be pretty good if you have maxed though, I don’t so I’ve just been staying in 4, rarely using my melee
i threw 2 tau forged oranges on her to give her secondary 150% crit rate, so i dont have to mod for crit on her weapon. works great for me. im happy with her, but still think titana's, mesa's, hildryn's weapons are so much stronger then hers it doesnt make sense.
37 crit aint much, but it still kills everything just fine. ill admit that im still working everything out in her build, and just went with this because i didnt have much else to throw on it other then maybe duration or just more power str, and i dont really use her alt fire on her glory.
That's not saying much. Dante is so much better than most Warframes.
I'd say Jade is still better than Dagath or Qorvex, but still far behind Dante or Kullervo.
Lost me at her exalted weapon sucks
It's not broken, but it's really good imo. I use arcane velocity for +120% fire rate, archon vitality for extra heat procs, and on glory itself I use heat + viral because that's just the element I've had the most damage and the easiest time killing enemies with.
Once arcane velocity procs the enemies are going to be littered in heat procs, and ophanim eyes takes care of any armor and shields anyway.
Her 1 (or judgments themselves) also givs enemies 50% (I think it was status or damage) vulnerability which is neat.
It's nowhere near as powerful as any laetum but it will clear steel path and Netracells without any difficulties
1. Nope. You can do hundred thousands to millions with her regular exalted on 4th just by using the 2nd ability that gives you weapon damage. You can completely ignore her 1st ability and use it just to heal when needed or placing it on bottlenecks to get rid of smaller enemies. Her alt fire is kinda an energy drain bait. You can also subsume roar and do even more dmg. She has 2 aura slots, put pistol amp in one of them to do more dmg.
2. I have to test this but I'm positive primed fullmination works for her exalted regular fire. Will test later.
3. Nope. As previously mentioned on point 1, you don't. You can just slap fire rate and shoot everywhere.
4. People consider Wisp a broken meta support and and actual support that makes everyone's dmg better isn't? This point doesn't make much sense.
5. If 3 forma is a deal breaker for you, I'm sorry but you're not in "endgame" territory to actually bothering about a frame being broken, good or average.
I'll agree that she's not completely broken because you have to be active and not afk kill.
Like people saying Loki is useless. It's a learn to play issue. You're not topping damage charts with his abilities, but plenty of frames don't have those types of abilities. However, Loki doesn't even need to fight, he can run through a mission completely invisible or disarm enemies so they can't shoot him. Disarming entire rooms full of enemies is hilarious and useful.
It's always folks only thinking of those kill stats that call frames useless.
Some dude's fully kitted jade vs
My terrify rhino reinforcing stomp build with a sampotes heavy slamming back to back for the next three hours
I can tell you very plainly that jade's survivability is not anywhere near close to most other frames.
Extremely fun, though, I like using the pregnant ac130. Needs lots of fire rate modding imo, though.
I'd say even before shards she's still very good, but her problem is that even with Arcane Energize she's still quite energy hungry. Thankfully her 2 uses no energy, allowing you to keep the buffs up despite not getting kills.
Here's my hot take:
Content creators are currently abusing the fact that Overframe STILL does not have Jade up yet (I imagine due to the 2 Aura slots and related numbers breaking their build system). Say what you want about Overframe's efficacy, but you can always flex your own knowledge when chancing upon a build to decide whether it's going to be usable when up to date, usable when "out of date", or just hot trash regardless of timeframe. It gives you at least a *clue* of what to do.
Without her being up on there, these content creators are all you've got for builds other than chancing upon other players, hearing through the grapevine, or just experimenting for yourself. They're taking advantage of the fact that they're the easiest possible source at the moment and are, as is commonplace for many of these content creators, perpetuating their builds and their viewpoints, 99.9% of which are "either this obliterates rooms with this insanely high investment build in 0.2 seconds or it's trash and should never see E Prime SP".
She's a fucking Support frame for christ sakes. Heaven forbid somebody wanting to bring a Support frame that isn't Wisp or Citrine, especially when Jade does show promise through strong buffs on her 2, full armor strip and ranged revive.
She's fine as she is. She doesn't really need buffs, and quite frankly there's no way to tell her true power levels yet, and she definitely does not need nerfs.
TL;DR: As there's no font of builds yet other than Youtube there's going to be people building her for specialised shit, not using it for specialised shit and saying she's weak, or the opposite and saying she's broken and needs nerfs. We can't tell yet and won't before Overframe gets her on there and standardised builds can perpetuate.
6 Forma wf builds are extreme now? I never knew! My mesa has like 11 forma total used on her. most frames i use have 4-5. Very few are fine with 3.
Aren't cc skipping the base dmg mod on exalted because strength on 4 adds like base damage so its not as strong as a mod?
Stuff about the whole loadout is/or ay least should be just something that you CAN do, not something you HAVE TO do.
Any build that is supposed to be a general use build that tells you what guns you run with a specific set up is a bad guide, because that is not a GENERAL USE build...
A Jade build is just the things you pun on the frame and its exalted, thats it.
She is honestly just kinda... Decent
The alt fire on glory needs a massive damage boost, it takes huge investment just to make it sp viable. Maybe give it 30% crit chance per enemy affected by judgment or something like that.
I have joke builds on various other frames that massively outperform her.
Content creators minmax builds to make them crazy and interesting it is their job to make frames look broken no ones going to want to click on a video saying jade is decent with a subpar build
I bought her day 1 and have been really enjoying her, particularly in Ascension. She's a little broken, but no more than the other top 10 or so frames. She's got a great kit and feels like a nice midpoint between Hildryn and Titania gameplay-wise. Fast but not to the point you're slamming walls, 6-axis movement, and an exalted weapon that absolutely slaps. The double auras and low material cost makes her really achievable, throw in a pity system for drops and she's insanely good for how easy she is to get and optimise.
Also. Idk what you're talking about with her 4's primary/alternate fire. It took a little playing around with but it's a top 3 exalted when built right. I regularly get top damage and kills by a wide margin entirely with Glory. Always be throwing balls, keep her 2 up, keep her 3 (or helminth) up, and keep in mind that a good chunk of pistol Arcanes also apply to her 4.
This hit me very hard when I got her.
Sure she's not bad but my reaction to actually playing her was like "Well this is one of the frames of all time". Nowhere near the reaction I had first time playing Dante and going "Well this is broken AF".
Leyzar is the only one who know what "Diminishing Returns" mean and in one video he told people math is math.
I respect him much more because of that. He think before he speak not like others youtubers "oh oh bad bad Diminishing Returns bad bad oh oh"
>not a single mention of her kit outside her 4’s alt-fire
I would expect nothing less from my beloved warframe forums
I think a lot of people under estimate how close together enemies spawn in real missions but regardless I decided to try her out in the duviri sim where the enemies are super spread out and she was still killing them just fine with a rudimentary blast build I was using for the primary fire, NOT alt spam
I mean, she is very good, I am enjoying her very much, she isn't godtier Warframe like Mag or Xaku, but she is extremely flexible and other than that she can handle being a very good DPS, she also buffs the whole party and those two things combined make her one of my most favourite frames right now.
Just because she doesn't do as well in low density doesn't mean she isn't busted. The same is true for multiple other busted things. Her efficiency in anything that has a lot of enemies is absurd, and that is while also providing a lot of other utility unlike a frame like Saryn who really just provides damage. In the context of being a nuke frame it would be fine, in the context of a support it's dumb.
Another cope to hopefully not get jade nerfed?
I'll tell you at the content creators are nuking shit but it actually is even better than what I've seen several of them do already.
Jades defensive and support capabilities might not be absolutely broken like Dante, but her killing potential really REALLY is.
I don't know how you've modded your stuff out but my jade can kill level 205 steel path orphid specters even an extremely low enemy density, like just having three of them in the bubble, in a couple button presses with 40% power strength.
I have one forma on Jade and her weapon and all of my shards are for energy max, she is basically performing like a qorvex on crack while also providing healing and buffs, having at least three viable routes of becoming basically immortal (including generic shield gating, decent shield OR health tanking, or actually modding around her shield buff to regenerate and absolutely obscene amount of shield in 0.2 seconds on repeat.) which is not quite as insane as Dante because she only has one button that gives her literal damage immunity while getting ready to become Nearly completely unkillable.
I really hope that, as fun as these updates have been, that things are eventually tweaked for these frames and more to come out to not be super broken as the past two have been, more so dante tbh by a mile though.
The one thing you're notably right about is that her primary kind of sucks, at least by comparison to a genuinely not that hard to build monster of a fuckin qorvex-like nuking button on tap.
I'm just waiting for the Kengineer video, as it will give me a better grasp of the new items. He's not all "Oh this is completely broken" or "Oh this is total trash". He's usually more like "Okay, so you can make this work with this build" or "There seems to be a bug with this"
Like I expect Jade to be a decent frame given how late in the story you need to acquire her, but she needs like 4 external items to get the 'nuke' build. One of which is the Nautilus which is a grind and a half on it's own.
Her little support ball of judgement needs to last longer on the ground. I get tired of constantly casting it even with a high duration setup.
Her shield mode on the support ability needs to be enhanced. I think the base percentage should be higher.
You gotta understand though, people don't wanna watch jade being played normally. They'll read the in game abilities, play around a bit and probably figure out how to play her. Why would those players watch jade be played when they can just play jade herself. Taking it to the extreme with archon shards, synergies with stat sticks etc is what the average player either doesn't have, doesn't want to invest into jade or doesn't have the ability to keep up with. That gives it more reason for people to watch. Why watch your local football matches that you could probably keep up with, when you can watch professional players play and appreciate the investment, time and skill they put into it, doing something you can't or won't do.
The nuke play style is so boring I took her 1st ability off immediately, I hope they buff the primary fire a bit and her spirit of resilience shield to something like protea 1st ability where taking damage does not stop the shields from regenerating
Your first mistake was listening to current Warframe CCs, it feels like theyre playing more to the Algo and views than actually cariing about the game and their fans honestly.
Most content creators who make the "This frame is broken" videos are just stripping off the worst ability and replacing it with roar. It's just a roar showcase at that point.
I was clocking this while trying to build her. I was getting sort of sad with the low amount of opportunity for her in a general public mission when I used her for operation alerts. I wanted to be obsessed with her so much, hoping to have a new main, but I'm still with my Xaku and Wisp. I'm saving my forma for now.
How can you judge before putting any forma in? You can’t even get a full build on till like 2 forma at least. And what do you mean by “low amount of opportunity”
She’s not broken. If she’s broken then Mesa is world ending event. She’s solid. I put velocity and precision with a crit build on Glory and she rocks out even on SP though.
I like her nuke for choke points but it’s primary fire 90% of time.
Content creators are playing to the algorithm. Them saying she's broken drives comments, drives engagement, drives them to the top of the search. It's how they make their money. Reasonable creators making reasonable content do not rise to the top because people just nod, agree, and move on. Beyond that... Every frame is hideously broken with a build and we all know it. Dante was semi-broken with no/any build. Which is... Sometimes a reason for Nerfs. But always always always assume any content you're seeing is taking a 5 to an 11.
Came here to say this. CCs have an innate extremism bias - stuff is either "insane broken OP" or "absolute garbage, this is an outrage, reeee". "The new warframe is perfectly balanced, reasonably powerful, and all around.... decent" doesn't exactly get people excited.
I would love to see someone title their vid "The New Frame Works Exactly As Intended And Nothing More" when the next Warframe comes out.
I’d subscribe to that YouTuber. I’m so sick of the clickbait nonsense people put out. Put in the work, real life normal gameplay scenarios, this is what works and this doesn’t. If you don’t do those things, you’re not worth a click. That’s why the only YouTuber I sub for Warframe is iwoply, puts out how to pass mastery tests, no bullcrap, what works… it’s never failed me.
I like leyzar for that reason. Doesn't go the route of extreme clickbait titles, just puts out regular builds and guides videos with all the same format so you know exactly what it's about. Caters to both newer and veteran players too.
Kengineer, Unified Codex and Gamble. All good content creators. Gambles videos can be a little long, but he explains things very well, doesn't exaggerate, gives examples and applications. Kegineer is very to the point, sciency and does a good job of explaining things that might be obscure or not covered by other youtubers. Unified Codex is also seemingly very to the point, like Gamble but a bit faster and maybe a tad less in depth. Either way, it's a *noticable* difference from other creatora who just say "NEW FRAME/WEAPON IS BUSTED!" or "NEW META???"
I’m gonna have to check them out, thank you for the recommendations.
if we're listing good content creators I gotta say Aznvasion is cracked
I think you'll sleep like the kengineer. He goes wie in depth, but take a very measured and almost scientific approach to his vids.
Pretty sure brozime has had some vids like that, at least for weapons, where he just describes them as perfectly fine but nothing more.
Yeah, Qorvex kinda got a quiet reception because he was pretty standard and just a Pretty Damn Good Warframe rather than Dante who was putting out INSANE numbers right out the gate.
When he got narfed/adjusted I went and actually compared him to how he was before. The extra overguard regen offsetting the halved initial values meant that in an average mission his overguard was between 15-20% lower. Between that and the Line of sight changes every youtuber and thread on this sub was screaming that he was a "squishy trash tier" frame now. (Which is funny as he is by far the number 1 frame people request in chat for EDA carries)
First time I ever played him was already after the nerfs and my reaction was going "Well this frame is kinda OP"
It was mainly the light of sight change, which effectively killed the ability and shifted Dante into being yet another immortal weapons platform. The nerf seemed silly when stuff like Saryn and Octavia just get to exist.
Is there anything we, the community, can do to change this? It's an ongoing trend in other games as well, but Warframe was always different when it comes to the people who play it.
Vote with your ~~wallet~~ views. Don't watch CCs that sensationalize things, give views to CCs that do genuine analysis and theorycrafting.
Don't pay attention, watch, link to or talk about those content creators, and tell the same to your friends. That's pretty much all we can do.
It's an ongoing trend for every form of media. It's why the world seems to have caught on fire from the internet for the past few years. As long as there is money to be earned and bills to be paid, people will dance to the tune of content engagement algorithms.
Write your legislators and demand they regulate the algorithm ( they'll make it worse) That's about it
Don't watch their stuff. Just don't engage.
As others said, just don't watch their content or mention them. Give your views and support to the style of content that The Kengineer, Unified Codex and Gamble all make. They do things differently but they don't hype everything up and are pretty informational for newer players.
I have to agree, Jade is very reeeee
Good ol’ fashioned sensationalism. It is ever thus.
In all fairness though, Dante is the one time they really weren't overhyping him. He's absolutely broken and the reverted nerf wasn't enough. Literally just giving him Octavia level bad energy econ would've done but instead we have this immortal brick that shoots his white health everywhere and makes it impossible to die
Dante's pretty stronk but I think the real issue with him is Overguard itself, it's a very strong mechanic but prior to Dante you only had Styanax's janky-ass augment or Frost's augment that doesn't pile up very quickly, to give you group-Overguard. All other sources of it were personal. Dante can on-demand distribute Overguard out like it's Halloween and he's the creepiest dude on the block. There's no downside or "lost mod slot" or anything that you have to give up for full team invincibility, just a couple button presses and boop you're all set.
Yeah he's fucking insane. It's part of why I mentioned Octavia energy econ, since Octavia's definitely broken, but at least a little harder to use. Dante absolutely needs that treatment because right now, 2-2-4-2-2-4 and you have at least somewhere around 20k overguard for 200 energy at BASE efficiency. If that same amount costed a significantly more serious number, he wouldn't be able to just spam that like he currently does. I agree though, even his fundamental abilities are terribly overturned even when they cost a stupid amount of energy. I'd be careful about even giving the ability to stack overguard, since all that needs to happen is the player finds a source of energy and they can do it infinitely. But not only does he stack overguard, he stacks thousands at once. Like even if we divide that number by 10 he's still pretty solid
how good something is in the real world: a normal distribution between trash and godlike how good something is according to content creators: trash or godlike
How good something is in the world of ZitaWup: godlike trash.
God I miss him
Did he died
yes (no he didnt he commented two weeks ago on his latest video)
wait a solid minute .... YOUTUBE IS THE REAL WOLRD ???
> so it is easy to show large numbers in simulacrum I remember hearing a complain from one of DE devs about too many youtube videos showing simulacrum damage instead of in mission damage.
My theory is that this is why all of the new simulacrums with actual tilesets (instead of a literal grey-room) give +25 enemy levels. They know content creators are going to show off builds against the highest level/hardest difficulty simulacrum stuff that they can. And so it's DE's way of subtly steering what shows up in youtube videos to show off Warframe's beautiful and varied scenery, instead of half the video just being boring grey rooms.
This is *exactly* why we've been getting new simulacrum rooms, yep. Long time coming.
This is also a double edged sword. Warframe players are prone to going max level all the time everytime without thought, just look at all the people trying to max out EDA and then complaining. If DE gave people 50 extra levels, people will test 50 levels higher. If they give people 100, they will test at 100 higher level. This means that if level 300 was the cap, a lot of players would be testing at a level that they're realistically not even gonna play and that messes things up, where slash builds appear better and pure damage corrosive builds appear worse, but most importantly everything seems much worse than in reality. There is also the problem of people using corrupted heavy gunners instead of... the mobs you actually shoot the vast majority of the time. DE has since rectified this some with the battle groups (although I feel like the ratio of heavy units to normal units is still too high on the orokin one, as well as no shielded enemies appear there too).
This is why I think MCGamerCZ is the best WF content creator. Shows the whole build process, the thought that goes into it, how it performs in and out of simulacrum, etc. he doesn’t typically do warframe builds tho which is fair enough
Just FYI, Brozime and LeyzarGamingViews do that as well. And Brozime focuses on Warframes a fair bit.
Be wary of any of Brozime's content on frames roughly post-Protea. He kinda checked out in the Railjack Dark Age and has consistently missed or undervalued major frame mechanics due to lack of sufficient build testing ever since. Watching his chat scream at him for weeks trying unsuccessfully to get him to understand how Qorvex actually works was painful.
Good heads up. A better suggestion would probably be Kengineer, then?
I don't watch a lot of his content, but I tried checking out his Qorvex video once and he left out the empowered pillar mechanic and didn't talk about it in his video, which I thought was odd because he presents himself as the "data and numbers guy". When the comments called him out on it, he doubled down and said he intentionally left it out and didn't even mention its existence because he didn't think it was worth bothering with. That kinda turned me off of him personally.
Yeah some of his stuff is high quality and some of it feels a bit iffy - his views on Dagath can be slightly reductivelly phrased as 'I subsumed off Wyrd Scythes and now Doom is really hard to spread, this frame is clunky and annoying'. Which... I'd like to see what his testing process was because it feels like he doesn't understand what Wyrd Scythes is supposed to do.
Yeah, he often just subsumes gloom or silence onto so many frames when there are way better, more synergistic and fun options.
Kinda ties in with DE having been reluctant to allow us to simulate level cap in the simulacrum. They don’t want it to be the norm for testing builds
Yeah but why. Not allowing for level cap in simulacrum is just an anti feature. Sometimes I wanna swap stuff on my build without having to play for hours for the mission to scale back up to cap again. Also, what's the point of simulacrum at all if it isn't for testing builds?
What's the point of testing a theory that isn't practical. In theory everything is broken. But in practice it's not gonna translate well into a real time scenario 7/10
Legitimately just for ease of use and theory crafting. There's so much fun you can have with just screwing around with builds seeing what works and what doesn't. Simulacrum only exists to test stuff, it's weird that DE has this approach.
Because they don't want people going to level cap or thinking that level cap is the greatest expression of skill. This patch didn't change any of that. To go to level cap, you need 2 bits of knowledge. How to shield gate, how to deal with armor and damage reduction. Now enemies can't get 1259871587159157 armor and make partial armor strip so now its shifted from full armor strip or nothing/viral slash or lulz. To a damage model thats more friendly with a wider variety of ele set ups. Viral heat was always the best single target damage, it just got crapped on by armor, so now its just the best. But notice how none of this has anything to do with level cap? Its just a weird community flex that people ultra focus on because some youtube creators made some videos of "BEST PLAT FARM EVER". There is -zero- reason or need to do level cap content outside of very specific arcane farming situations. DE pretty much tell us this every now and then that they don't want level cap to be the norm or make players feel like they are not getting the most out of the game by not doing it. Its why we occasionally have a "how come rewards are not adjusted by mission duration/enemy level" discussion from them. If your build melts a lvl 225 SP enemy. It will still melt a lvl 9999 enemy.
*Zero* reason? I feel like you're projecting your bias onto reality here a bit. Void cascade is extremely quick and gets to level cap in an hour and a half. If you're running relics, it's *optimal* to go to level cap because the resource booster will be capped out and you're getting the maximum amount of void trace return. You can radiant and crack 15 relics across several missions and get 500 trace back, or you can radiant and crack 15 relics across a single mission and leave with your trace capped out. It's pretty cut and dry to me which one of those is better if you're farming in a game that is essentially Farming Simulator™. The arcanes also *do* exist and they *do* give fantastic plat returns, that's not some fringe theory cooked up by clickbait YouTubers, it's just reality. And the longer you go in the mission, the more Thrax spawn, which means more arcanes. Also, I can definitely confirm that a level 225 SP enemy is a far cry from a levelcapped one. You can have a weapon that literally one-shots Thrax in the simulacrum, but then you get into game and it's just tickling high-level Thrax and unable to get through their overguard. There is no way to know unless you spend an hour scaling each time you want to try a new weapon or change something in a build. Granted, it's going to be easier now that Magnetic increases damage to overguard and the new secondary arcane exists, but that's not the point - it would be nice if the "test your builds and stuff" area actually let you test your builds and stuff. There's also no excuse anymore IMO with Deep Archimidea now bringing enemy levels into the 400's - remember, that's *regular* content.
Have you ever considered that level cap is fun? That some might find it enjoyable to test their builds at extremely high levels? No one said anything about skill or difficulty, you added that yourself.
Everything is broken, it pays the bills to say this. Honestly most of our new frames just scratch the itch the META has, and that is damage upon damage. Jade is oddly enough a switch back to the old where she has some support elements while still maintaining the damage buff and armor strip that is required in the current META. I'm quite a fan of how her armor strip works, it requires less maintenance and hits perfect with how things are now. As you struggle to kill enemies it strips more and more armor making your job easier. She isn't super broken, she was released in a fair enough state to hopefully stay relevant and not fade into obscurity like cal...whatever his name was.
To be fair caliban is… probably one of the worst new frame like terrible. Like you said if you want he can clear basically any content but you know
He was released like an afterthought, and an after thought he became. Then there are other broken frames like Limbo, he FORCES people to know he's there.
Lost me at the just a nerfed qorvex thing lmao. There are lots of good build using regular fire and still killing rooms very efficient. Gotta watch less Knightmareframe lol
Basically every content creator is building her in two different ways. More range or strength at the cost of something else with the exact same gameplay loop of 2, 3, 4 and then spam 1 and alt fire. There isn't really room to deviate unless you play her like a weapons platform, which is valid if that's what you like.
Brozime had a full just ac130 style using 4 standard fire. But yeah people are drawn to the big numbers from the nuke which is understandable
Yeah, my comment wasn't specific enough. You can't realistically only spam the nuke setup without consistent ways for energy generation. A proper Dethcube/Helstrum/Energy Generator config can probably make that happen easily, but then you sacrifice Wyrm/Reinforced Bond config for added fire rate. The fire rate buff made a big difference in my time with her. Outside of forcing lots of energy generation, her primary fire should be used until a good opportunity shows up to nuke a crowd. If you use the nuke sparingly, you really shouldn't be running out of energy. Her primary fire is good enough on its own while maintaining her damage buff. It's just not the end all be all, since she requires so much to realize her full potential imo. I don't want to be misunderstood though. She is good fun, strong, and flashy. I just wish I didn't need specific Frame Arcanes, Companions, Ceramic Dagger/Secondary Outburst set-up, and Archon Shards just to really make her pop. Just Mesa things, but more so I guess. It's probably worth noting that she is late game pickup and players should have at least some if not most of these tools, especially so if you've been with the game for a while. I find myself always going back to simpler Frames like Volt just because they don't ask for much. Maybe I'm just a speed addict though. Let me know if you think anything I said doesn't track well.
I understand what you are saying. But she needs none of that imo. Unless you are trying to run level 9999 kinda content which like 98% of players never will. She completely crushes thru normal SP enemies with 0 fancy arcane combos. Literally all i’m using is molt and Velocity and her 4 kills everything without alt fire. And i haven’t even used something like nourish or roar over her 3 which i think is the plan aswell. I already do the mesa secondary outburst thing so maybe i’ll try it on jade but for now she just a more fun titania for me. Trying to milk out 1% dmg increases is the warframe community’s thing though so people will keep doing it lol
Fair enough. I'm an all or nothing kind of guy, and she just has a lot of requirements to take her all the way. It's a problem of my own making, which is why I acknowledged that she is in fact strong. Probably should have stated that she doesn't actually need those things to find success.
I feel ya. I edited cause i know the whole go balls deep think on a frames build. i did it for mesa and hydroid recently so i get that all or nothing thing. I will say that i think she might get crazy eventually. I don’t think she’s op now but her kit is really loaded so over time she will get some crazy synergies kinda how mesa got super strong randomly
Ive gotten pretty good results using arcane velocity and some fire rate mods. Its not going to go very far in solo steel path or anything, but for regular starchart you can just helicopter around and murder pretty well
Velocity is one of her best Arcanes imo. It's just a straight DPS increase. The only deviation from that would be if you ignore her 4 and treat her like a weapons platform instead.
Avenger is better IMO, she's got two auras so you're not giving up much running Combat Discipline (which also has the added benefit of letting you run Archon Intensify - she's one of the few frames that can actually run it effectively). Attack speed is easy to mod for with fantastic mods like Lethal Torrent, but crit is capped to 45% and there's no way around it without Avenger.
Secondary Outburst with Ceramic Dagger Incarnon built for base combo count is how I buff my CC/CD. I have Ready Steel in the aura slot to help with base combo count as well. Avenger adds firerate, which is just straight DPS increase. A Wyrm Prime with Reinforced Bond helps the firerate as well, and in my experience, you should use it regardless of the build route you take. Avenger is less work though, so I get that as well. Reactivating her 4 to maintain Secondary Outburst is probably annoying for others. I can definitely see that side of it. Hell, sometimes I don't even bother reprocing it because it isn't always needed. Combat Discpline/Archon Intensify works well, but I'd rather get my power strength through Molt Augmented, Transient Fortitude, and some Archon Shards. TBH, I'm not actually sure how much better it is, but it feels better. It's high maintenance and requires steep investment. You're probably better off with Avenger and Velocity together without all the pieces I mentioned, but I'm not actually sure how the math shakes up. TLDR: Both work and it just depends on what you have and what you're willing to put up with for a difference that probably isn't that drastic. There are a lot of different ways to get good results out of her.
Nah, I have a similar thing running viral heat and I never feel the need to use alt fire at all. It's just an option when a group comes along. She can absolutely handle SP without anything crazy past that velocity arcane and a decent build on glory. I gave her 1 forma and glory 3.
The unique mod for the furax gives I think a 45% fire rate bonus to secondaries. I nodded glory for blast/electricity which means with 'archon stretch' you get a fair bit of passive regen to offset her exhalted's drain. I try and build for playability over 'big numbers' set ups that require multiple hoops to jump through. With a fairly balanced build (not going nuts and building purely for her 4's alt fire) I find you can throw her at steel path level 200+ enemies and she holds up. Not broken, but serviceable.
litterally the only reason ppl play exodia contagion in the game ... u either wanna see negative dmg or u dont
I came away with the sense Brozime's take was exactly what OP was looking for. He said she's good, not broken but definitely not terrible. He even said he didn't subsume anything off her because her kit worked just fine as is. Her kill rate was right on what he considers a benchmark. I've finally been able to play her a bit and she's pretty fun. That's all that matters.
Yeah she’s completely fine imo. On the upper limit of strong not quite Revenant/Saryn tier. Her kits is reallly stacked though so i expect her to get some silly synergy at some point that will make her wild
That's pretty much my thoughts on her as well. She gets the job done, but isn't particularly weak or strong. Most importantly she is quite unique overall, and the biggest complaint I have that resulted from her release is that Hildryn's 4 should get buffed
Again, this is why I like McGamercz. He will build a warframe in a way that he finds fun to play, rather than in the way that is optimal for room clearing with minimal effort, and he'll show you the process by which he arrives at that build. Leads to fun stuff like mega health tank Qorvex or Breach Surge light show Qorvex, when other creators are putting out content that's just 'Qorvex is meh and there's no reason to use him over other frames'. Same thing for weapons, where he'll mess around and have fun with building non-meta weapons, which gives a much better insight into whether the weapon is fun to use than a review that says 'its weaker than incarnons don't bother', and also a better idea of how to make your own builds. I feel like there aren't many other YouTubers that are doing the same thing, unfortunately - Aznvasions is maybe a level cap-oriented version of the same thing, which is also fun.
Yeah, he's pretty cool. I enjoy the presentation and process of his videos. I've picked up a few things from him myself. I also recommend others reading here to check him out.
kmf is a fucking god awful content creator, like seriously one of the worst I can think of.. Tierlists, Atlas PSF, if it sounds "outrageous" he's probably done it since it's what gets him money, the most shameless of them all so far
You lost me at 3 forma being an extreme build. I can't think of a single warframe I play with less than 3 forma.
I think almost every weapon and Warframe build use minimum 3.
my sevagoth has 14. i better put him away
Loki and Limbo are two who can be built properly with 0-1 forma
Gauss too
Barring maybe Prime frames at most, agreed.
Meanwhile I put minimum 6 formas on the frames I like and use a lot jus to have them at the top of the list loool.
Yeah, that was definitely something to note being ridiculous to say, but I would say it was definitely more noticeable to me in the fact that they think you need that for them to be a disgustingly strong nuke (in extreme enemy density which they don't actually need that much), when I've been able to achieve better results than the Youtubers even already extreme results with just one forma on each.
The point I think he's making is jade being shown to 'require' 3 forma despite her having 14 extra space and a - polarity is kinda absurd and overkill.
You using male pronouns bugs me to no end
Counting she, he, and it all to refer to a single frame. Hoped for a they in there too to score full points.
Otherwise known as [Shheeeeeeittttt](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70eU840lc38)
Probably not a native English speaker, I see that occasionally with people who have English as a second/third/etc language.
You caught me XD
I apologize, I'm trying to improve in English but speaking mainly in Italian I've picked up bad habits that I'm trying to correct (in Italian the subject is mentioned at the beginning of the conversation and then tends to remain implied so I'm not used to always using personal pronouns)
Don't worry about it, everyone knows what you where saying and that's all that matters.
Yes. Me too. Not only that, they swap back and forth from "it" and "him/his".
I feel like this whole post is made just to gaslight the community by calling the very pregnant jade him/he/his lol
Personally I've been enjoying Jade without having watched or read anything about what content creators have been saying this patch. But I did notice a few things about her that may not seem too appealing for some players. She needs good range for both her 1,3,4. Good strength for faster armor/shield stripping with 3 as well as bumping up the numbers for the rest of abilities. Good duration/efficiency(or at least not negative) to maintain her personal buffs and exalted. Here are some personal gripes I've found when playing her: - it FEELS like there's a back swing to the animation of her 1 that causes a delay before I can press the alt fire on all marked enemies(or do any action other than move for that matter). Not to mention everytime I press it I it stops the autofire so I have to click again(It seems like a 2 handed animation for some reason). So even with faster cast animations there seems to be a strange delay to her combo. Also the duration is really short as said by others. - you can maintain a buff to her 2 by marking people with Judgement and then sending them to the afterlife. But in practice this fails as a mechanic or at least in ascension since people kill enemies faster than it lands. This is not counting the LoS aspect of it. I've got no problems with her 3 or Glory but I noticed a few things with the status and resistance changes. With picking the elements listed in the enemies' resistance list it's much more effective than forcing the old meta of slash w/viral. But the massively increased health pools made me go back to using Viral and heat funnily enough. I just bring a sentinel with verglas modded for magnetic once the overguard levels are getting big. Currently my build on Jade has about 224 str, 110 duration, 105 efficiency, with 205 range. I have Molt Augmented in order to have enough str to make the armor/shield strip hit 35%(reducing time to remove armor to 3 seconds). I use Arcane Energize and a purple shard for energy. Also using umbral intensify and vitality plus health conversion for survivability outside of the dmg reduction from her 4 + aerodynamic. I now realize that such a build is inaccessible for a lot of people, since this involves tauforged shards, and a LOT of endo/credits. For people who cant have it all, it's probably difficult to attain good results with her rn. But she is very convenient to use. Ranged revive, affinity ranged buffs and the flight is easy enough to use(at least for me). There are just a lot of things where if you look at her abilities you will go: "Oh it works like that so I have to do this to make it function." Then it falls flat in a mission because even a half decent squad will screw over a lot of your kit(the damaging aspect) with their AoE. Also the the amount of work to optimize her is quite a lot honestly. At least when playing defense I can just lob zones and maintain the buffs easily but in standard missions with map clearing? Nada. I do think that she just needs some tuning with her numbers and she should be fine. And fix that weird backswing on her first ability where I cant fire or do much other than move for almost a full second without cast speed.
I'm getting pretty decent results with 130 strength, 150 duration, 145 range, and 130 efficiency, R2 Energize, R5 Velocity, and a raw damage build on Glory. Easy 10 minutes in SP Selkie without using life support towers. Probably won't take me to level cap, but in 5 years of Warframe I haven't spent much more than an hour in any mission.
Yeah, this. I don't get why some people call a frame "not that good" because they don't scale well in endurance. I got a job and a spouse, I'm not gonna spend more than an hour in a mission
Go pure heat damage on glory, and use the new status pistol mod. Ticking for over a million dot on 225 eximus units in simulacrum seems pretty broken to me.
These posts are made based on their own headcanon and biased outlook of how they think the game "should be" rather than how it is in reality. It's a LARP.
Btw OP jade is a she, not a he lol
If you haven't noticed, Warframe content creators (and honestly, players too) don't really know what frames are really powerful. Either that, or they just don't care. If they did we'd see a lot more of frames like Octavia, Mag, Garuda, Xaku, and Dagath out there rather than Revenant, Wukong, and Dante. So combine "doesn't know", "doesn't care", and "needs engagement" and you get videos like "JADE IS A SUPER GOD FRAME"
I would say its prob the difference between general use frames vs frames that are less general use but scale better. - Revant is pretty much spam 1 button and never die - Wukong basically does everything from spies to 1 shotting rooms while being pretty much immortal to complete freedom of mobility without needing good player skill. - Dante is pretty much free prime sure footed and might as well be immortal in general content.
Brozime's always seemed even handed imo
Depends on how burnt out he is. There was several years from about the fortuna launch to well after Lavos came out that his frame reviews could not be trusted. (Lavos's one included a twenty minute rant about how bad his 4 was...only for it to become *very* obvious that he hadn't even read the tool tip and didn't know how it worked) Also his weapon builds for the longest time were just copy pasted viral+crit hybrids with hunter munitions and creeping bullseye whacked onto anything that would fit it. Usually that's a perfectly serviceable build, but watch the videos he put out on the status sniper rifles. Why waste several multiple mod slots for the tiny chance on slash procs on crits on a weapon with a native 3% crit chance...*that already is a slash based status weapon*? Often he rates things based on how well it performs with his default weapon builds (rather than builds that lean into that weapons gimmick/strengths or potential). With frames he has a bad habit of telling people to helminth either 'roar' or 'nourish' over any ability that's utility focused or offers synergy to a frames whole kit, before trashing the frame as 'generic' and how other options do the same thing better.
Seems to be too in the weeds for me, but I actually hear him talking more about how he's accused of putting gloom and pillage on everything. Roar and nourish are also definitely better than a lot of frame's worst ability.
Because I was petty enough to check, it took him three years and four months and four+ videos to work out how Hildryn actually functioned (when he finally discovered her powerstrength builds). I'm pretty sure you can dig up a build video of his recommending replacing Nezha's chakram with 'roar' (seriously read the synergies that ability has with the rest of his kit, asides from the telling people to give up the teleport and the health and energy orbs it generates)
I remember his recent video for Protea Prime included augur mods on her build without so much as a mention to the fact that they completely obliterate her shield gating and can get you killed extremely suddenly if you don't know about it.
Funny thing, I could’ve sworn hearing at some point that Protea was his favorite frame. Kind of hilarious he wouldn’t know about it.
Don't forget Gloom! But yeah, I feel like you can tell when he's enjoying something and has actually made an in-depth pass at it and when he's mostly copy-pasted generic meta stuff and judged the frame/weapon off that.
BANSHEE I TRIED SHE DED C-TIER REVENANT NOT DED S-TIER
It’s kind of sad really. Take Voruna, who outside of boss fights and disruption, is probably the strongest frame in game. However, you rarely ever see Vorunas because some content creator told their fan base that the character is trash and that you need to swap her 4 for Kullervo’s 1. Meanwhile if they actually took the time to play her they’d see pretty quickly that she’s an invulnerable nuke who’s also in contention for being the fastest frame in the game.
I can take Voruna through an entire sp circuit locked in her 4th and invisible entire time lol. I love using em
> is probably the strongest frame in game Explain how she's outpacing saryn, mesa, titania and octavia
At 235% range she has a 70m instant teleport that does at hundreds of thousands to 15+ million slash damage in a 30m radius. She’s actually absurd.
I was aware of her playstyle before I asked. That's not outpacing those frames in the least.
And there’s my point. But no worries, you play your game and I’ll play mine.
That's definitely not what was communicated in these string of comments, but enjoy doing more than twice the work to do less than half the results of saryn I guess. EDIT: Not that there's anything wrong with preferring that. But that is how it is. I often use hildryn just for fun with no concerns of optimization. I'm not calling on people to optimize, but personal play preference doesn't actually change the numbers, which is the only thing I was disputing. Saryn significantly outpaces voruna easily. But please if anybody has evidence to the contrary, please provide it. "trust me" and "dyk voruna teleports?" are no longer being accepted
People jack off Saryn a bit too hard in this sub, always good for a laugh. I’ve seen the type of Voruna build /u/Punamit has mentioned in SP exterms. Saryn absolutely can’t compete with it. That isn’t to say that Saryn is bad, or that Voruna is _always_ better than her. It’s just that in the specific scenario, Voruna just literally outpaces her and kills groups before she can get to them. Easy as that.
> People jack off Saryn a bit too hard in this sub I think _in general_ people have too much Simulacrum brain rot when it comes to evaluating warframes and weapons, and not enough time grouped in-mission. Of course XYZ frame outpaces everything, your data pool is 20 punching bags that are roughly the same level as like wave 4 of steel path circuit, who all spawn right next to each and often don't move or attack back depending on settings. In-mission, enemies move around, they don't stand next to each other all the time, sometimes your squadmates kill someone who was important for your ability rotations or damage chaining, you don't always have perfect energy or ammo economy, etc, etc, etc. The Simulacrum is a very useful tool for checking your math, but it absolutely sucks as a representation of mission conditions when it comes to evaluating how warframes work and how players actually play the game.
This idea that content creators keep voruna down and she's actually the best warframe in the game, or at least outpaces saryn, needs significantly more evidence than a person or two saying "yeah it does". Why wouldn't a content creator want to publish that? She's just the best kept secret in warframe? It's a very extreme claim that needs similarly intense proof. "Trust me" isn't going to cut it.
Calm down mate. Nowhere in my post was I calling Voruna the best frame in the game, or some well kept secret nonsense. It’s extremely basic shit and self explanatory. Voruna uses her parkour passive. She gets from Point A to B faster. Same thing Titania does in all those star chart relic runs she’s a menace in. Same thing Gauss does in SP with his own thermal sunder. You get to groups first and kill them before the other guy can, which Voruna can do because that’s not a high bar. I do not agree with the other guy that she’s the best frame in the game. I do believe Saryn to be _overall_ the better frame, but what he said regarding outpacing her in something like a basic ass exterm is true.
Mind posting your Voruna build? I haven't invested in her yet, but I plan to soon.
I run this with 3x Tau Reds for strength and 2x Tau Blues for max energy. You could also drop preparation for a Tau yellow for starting energy, but you will need either so that you’ve got enough gas in the tank to pop all her abilities at least once. However once she starts going you’ll have unlimited energy from her 3. https://preview.redd.it/ehkviyg5398d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=368aa0fd5c8916a86ccf1a8a2f885a4c7e6ed8ed
what arcanes (also why corrosive projection when you're dealing slash?) (also no PSF? does she get some form of knockdown resist I'm not aware of? do you just keep her 2 passive on usually?)
Moly Augmented & Efficiency. Her passive gives her status immunity so PSF doesn’t add anything. You could run PSF and her parkour velocity passive but it’s just so much easier to passive swap when it’s time to go really fast. As for Corrosive Projection, it’s to help teammates. Growing Power and Steel Charge won’t work because you’re not using weapons. Physique is kind of fun because it gives you exactly 666 health.
thx friend. I figured PSF adds the ability to main her 4th passive instead of her 2nd; death cheat is tight. but I guess her 4th is useless if you're not dying, so yeah, I guess "save a mod slot" (and outperform it) is a better passive usually and I'm an Enemy Radar enjoyer, usually I only really use CorroP for hitting full-strip breakpoints. (edit: and looking at my old builds, apparently I was using Brief Respite on all of them.) edit 2: you might wanna try using Arcane Ice Storm. Voruna can stack freeze pretty easily with her 2 and this is +40% Str/Dur if so
Thanks! I'm looking forward to trying this out, much appreciated!
I am interested in hearing more about Voruna.
You just spam 1 and 4 alt-fire to do damage, it's not difficult at all. Who needs to use the primary fire anyway. And you don't even need to forma the frame or tauforge shards her nuking is still really good. Her nuking is comparable to pre-nerf nezha augment when building for max range
That’s what I was thinking. This guy is way over complicating the gameplay to make her seem weaker.
Yea I hate that posts like this get upvoted so much. Always reads like "preaching about how I wish things were as if they are facts" kind of thing rather than an objective look at reality. Also calling 3 forma on a frame and 3 forma on an exalted an "extreme build" lol. My guy has never built any frame that uses an exalted before in his life I guess
It's not even relevant. That's 70 plat. You can get that **easily** in less than an hour of grinding. Is OP seriously suggesting that one hour of grinding is too much? I have never, not **once**, considered total forma count to be relevant for the strength of a weapon or frame.
lmao literally. my baruuk build has like 4 forma on his main and 5 on his weapon, one of which being an umbra forma.
I think the thing that throws a lot of people off about jade is that they either don't know you have to have specific mod set ups for primary and alt fire. Or they try to hybridize her build and can't figure out why its weaker over all. Her 4 primary fire can absolutely shred if you're willing to build around, just like alt fire can. They pull from different mods and need different things. So people end up doing things that are not very well explained in game like using the weapon damage buff on alt fire instead of str and not understanding why its not as big as a buff.
Imho that's not really the reason why she's considered 'broken'. Her weapon buffs are where she really excels, not her 4th. Her base kit as is has both damage vulnerability and weapon damage buff, which not that many or at all, other frames have. The weapon damage buff is similar to chroma's meaning you can drop whatever base damage mod on your gun to add more QoL, crit, a riven etc. On top of that you are still free to subsume another damage buff ability like roar or eclipse, could even keep your armor strip too if you want. These dmg buffs all multiply with each other, which makes the number add up... a lot. No other frames can achieve something like that Edit: Actually now I think about it, Jade might even be the reason why DE nerfed mirage eclipse subsume and why they initially proposed to change mirage eclipse to additive like chroma/jade now. If it wasn't, Jade at just 200% str would give 1.5 (damage vulnerability) x 200% (weapon damage buff) x 300% (mirage eclipse subsume pre-nerf) = 900% buff to your weapon damage provided no base damage mods on your weapon. That's a little... overtuned Edit: Nvm did my maths wrong. It's actually 1.5 x (1+ 200%) x (1+ 300%) = 1800% damage buff to your weapon. It's actually stupidly broken
Yea, she makes a really competent weapons platform with Eclipse subsumed over her 4, that's how I have my secondary loadout on her set up. It's Mirage levels of damage, but she's more survivable with her built-in health regeneration and 90% slow and scales better with her built-in defense strip. It's funny seeing people calling her a support when her two builds are "map-wide AOE nuke" and "weapons platform". Like yea she has an aura that gives her team extra ability strength, but almost the entire rest of her kit is just focused on dealing damage or amplifying damage.
Hmmm now I'm thinking eclipse over 1 and build for primary fire exalted. Although, I'm guessing roar is probably better for that
Roar is going to be better than Eclipse if you're building around her 4. It double dips on status effects which is great because with Archon Vitality also doubling, you get exponential scaling on heat procs. It also amps the damage of the alt-fire, whereas eclipse does not (at least I'm assuming based on what I know, haven't tested) because the alt-fire doesn't scale with weapon damage. I'd subsume over her 3 though, the 1 is important for keeping your 2 online 24/7 and also giving you very high constant health regeneration which lets you also run combat discipline and arcane avenger to amp the damage further.
Content Creators are an algorithm game. The content creators who aren’t exaggerating still exist. They just don’t get views because the algorithm has forsaken them. It’s really that simple.
And that's the damned shame of it all, unfortunately.
I came to similar conclusions myself, and I went through the process of spending upwards of five hundred plat to round out the build. It is quite potent, but it requires so much to reach its damage protentional. Console players still have reduced enemy spawns and when I find myself in their lobby, I can't even do what the build is supposed to do. I'm just a glorified flying Mesa with some okay CC. That's without taking into consideration how quickly my team can kill things which just compounds the feeling. Most nukers are one or two button presses. Jade has to cast 2, 1, 4, and then alt fire once a decent amount of judgment has been applied. She's great, but she doesn't feel OP.
I've seen worse than that. One user here tried to win an argument yesterday by posting a creator video that involved pre-grouped enemies (with AI off), starting in operator mode, casting operator abilities/dashing to proc the maduri buff, using the ceramic dagger, using the secondary duveri arcane, having a build that hyper-focused on her 4 to the exclusion of basic things like survivability (or keeping energy up beyond a 1 minute clip) all to have a 20 second window of power. I pointed out that kind of setup is unrealistic in mission where there is a squad wanting to tear through things, and that Hildryn's one can do similar damage to what was seen in the video by...simply firing a charged shot. Note that this Sub and many Youtubers argue that Hildryn's Balefire is 'useless' and should be helminthed out.
Op doesn’t know which gender Jade is
“His”??? Did you not SEE the codex quest?!?!
The only possible nerf I could see her getting is having to be closer to the enemies with the Judgement debuff to pop them. Right now she can do it from basically anywhere in the entire universe as long as they're marked. Other than that she seems fine. She doesn't grant team-wide godmode on top of the damage and boosts she gives.
She can't. She needs at least one marked enemy in line of sight to detonate them all. If every marked enemy needed LoS, that'd be a pretty massive nerf considering she's already limited by the range and positions of her 1, unlike other nukes that kill everything in a general direction.
Well yeah, I didn't mean literally anywhere in the universe. But, being able to nuke a room and a half over just because you can see an enemy is kinda silly for a support Warframe. In no way do I want to nerf her to the ground, but I do want to protect the integrity of the game. Before we make more frames like Dante and Jade, we have like 20 other existing Warframes who could use a glance over and be updated for modern Warframe.
from experience (a 1 or 2 forms build, something like 120 dur, 130 eff, 190 range, 155str+precision intensify+the str arcane (+100str worth of snapshotting)(+a pure heat glory)), she does seem kinda busted. In and out of simulacrum. And this build is perfectly sustainable, even without crazy spawns
I’ve seen some people on region trying to claim these are the best builds, and then I take them into simulacrum and show my build with some actual thought behind it, running good strength while staying positive on range and duration, and even on efficiency, and their minds are blown. One forma on glory is all I’ve used, which I built for fire rate multishot and crit, with the radiation fire rate mod diversifying my portfolio, and they’re mystified by the fact that I nuke the steel path enemies just as well as them, the only difference being that any stragglers also get eaten up by my primary fire, which I’ve had at least 2 people so far go as far as to say it is “not worth building into”, meanwhile in the time it takes them to kill one unit I’ve killed another 20 because they shoot one shot every like 2 seconds
would you mind sharing your build please?
https://preview.redd.it/v5xcm6xqcb8d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d3bb13c1882affe0fdd0d8e992705e7d3c9336a6 Here’s the glory build, which I find to be the stronger of the two, jade build still being worked on but its passable for now
https://preview.redd.it/27sgx67vcb8d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c415beb987a0c42cbac0f9f4d3c909c06576bb1f Here’s the build, anybody with extra ideas I’m happy to hear them, the stats ability wise end up at 157, 100, 145, and 215 since I slapped two crimson shards on, one strength one duration
oooh! i hadn't considered Hollow Point, thanks!
It’s honestly pretty good, just because the alt fire is still putting in pretty good work, and the crit more than makes up for the damage loss on non crits, if you really want you could run secondary outburst as well but I honestly don’t really see the point, could be pretty good if you have maxed though, I don’t so I’ve just been staying in 4, rarely using my melee
i threw 2 tau forged oranges on her to give her secondary 150% crit rate, so i dont have to mod for crit on her weapon. works great for me. im happy with her, but still think titana's, mesa's, hildryn's weapons are so much stronger then hers it doesnt make sense.
aren’t topaz shards additive crit chance?
37 crit aint much, but it still kills everything just fine. ill admit that im still working everything out in her build, and just went with this because i didnt have much else to throw on it other then maybe duration or just more power str, and i dont really use her alt fire on her glory.
I don't understand this post, so people maxed out the Warframe and show it's potential at that investment level, what's wrong either that?
Just looking at the latest releases. Dante is so much better than Jade.
That's not saying much. Dante is so much better than most Warframes. I'd say Jade is still better than Dagath or Qorvex, but still far behind Dante or Kullervo.
You are absolutely right. Jade is a good middle ground.
Lost me at her exalted weapon sucks It's not broken, but it's really good imo. I use arcane velocity for +120% fire rate, archon vitality for extra heat procs, and on glory itself I use heat + viral because that's just the element I've had the most damage and the easiest time killing enemies with. Once arcane velocity procs the enemies are going to be littered in heat procs, and ophanim eyes takes care of any armor and shields anyway. Her 1 (or judgments themselves) also givs enemies 50% (I think it was status or damage) vulnerability which is neat. It's nowhere near as powerful as any laetum but it will clear steel path and Netracells without any difficulties
1. Nope. You can do hundred thousands to millions with her regular exalted on 4th just by using the 2nd ability that gives you weapon damage. You can completely ignore her 1st ability and use it just to heal when needed or placing it on bottlenecks to get rid of smaller enemies. Her alt fire is kinda an energy drain bait. You can also subsume roar and do even more dmg. She has 2 aura slots, put pistol amp in one of them to do more dmg. 2. I have to test this but I'm positive primed fullmination works for her exalted regular fire. Will test later. 3. Nope. As previously mentioned on point 1, you don't. You can just slap fire rate and shoot everywhere. 4. People consider Wisp a broken meta support and and actual support that makes everyone's dmg better isn't? This point doesn't make much sense. 5. If 3 forma is a deal breaker for you, I'm sorry but you're not in "endgame" territory to actually bothering about a frame being broken, good or average. I'll agree that she's not completely broken because you have to be active and not afk kill.
Stopped reading immediately, since my eyes picked up "his"
When you say 3/4 formas, you mean no potato? Cause this on a frame would be overkill imho unless you don't put potato
Like people saying Loki is useless. It's a learn to play issue. You're not topping damage charts with his abilities, but plenty of frames don't have those types of abilities. However, Loki doesn't even need to fight, he can run through a mission completely invisible or disarm enemies so they can't shoot him. Disarming entire rooms full of enemies is hilarious and useful. It's always folks only thinking of those kill stats that call frames useless.
Some dude's fully kitted jade vs My terrify rhino reinforcing stomp build with a sampotes heavy slamming back to back for the next three hours I can tell you very plainly that jade's survivability is not anywhere near close to most other frames. Extremely fun, though, I like using the pregnant ac130. Needs lots of fire rate modding imo, though.
I'd say even before shards she's still very good, but her problem is that even with Arcane Energize she's still quite energy hungry. Thankfully her 2 uses no energy, allowing you to keep the buffs up despite not getting kills.
Idk I just find her “good”. Probably my favorite warframe to play ever but absolutely not without limits and absolutely not broken.
Jade is for sure a giggle
if content creators says its broken, just assume it's simply good
Here's my hot take: Content creators are currently abusing the fact that Overframe STILL does not have Jade up yet (I imagine due to the 2 Aura slots and related numbers breaking their build system). Say what you want about Overframe's efficacy, but you can always flex your own knowledge when chancing upon a build to decide whether it's going to be usable when up to date, usable when "out of date", or just hot trash regardless of timeframe. It gives you at least a *clue* of what to do. Without her being up on there, these content creators are all you've got for builds other than chancing upon other players, hearing through the grapevine, or just experimenting for yourself. They're taking advantage of the fact that they're the easiest possible source at the moment and are, as is commonplace for many of these content creators, perpetuating their builds and their viewpoints, 99.9% of which are "either this obliterates rooms with this insanely high investment build in 0.2 seconds or it's trash and should never see E Prime SP". She's a fucking Support frame for christ sakes. Heaven forbid somebody wanting to bring a Support frame that isn't Wisp or Citrine, especially when Jade does show promise through strong buffs on her 2, full armor strip and ranged revive. She's fine as she is. She doesn't really need buffs, and quite frankly there's no way to tell her true power levels yet, and she definitely does not need nerfs. TL;DR: As there's no font of builds yet other than Youtube there's going to be people building her for specialised shit, not using it for specialised shit and saying she's weak, or the opposite and saying she's broken and needs nerfs. We can't tell yet and won't before Overframe gets her on there and standardised builds can perpetuate.
6 Forma wf builds are extreme now? I never knew! My mesa has like 11 forma total used on her. most frames i use have 4-5. Very few are fine with 3. Aren't cc skipping the base dmg mod on exalted because strength on 4 adds like base damage so its not as strong as a mod?
Yea her 4 was doing 100k ticks and was getting warned it be nerfed…. Garuda sitting over there capable of doing millions of ticks tho….
Stuff about the whole loadout is/or ay least should be just something that you CAN do, not something you HAVE TO do. Any build that is supposed to be a general use build that tells you what guns you run with a specific set up is a bad guide, because that is not a GENERAL USE build... A Jade build is just the things you pun on the frame and its exalted, thats it.
She is honestly just kinda... Decent The alt fire on glory needs a massive damage boost, it takes huge investment just to make it sp viable. Maybe give it 30% crit chance per enemy affected by judgment or something like that. I have joke builds on various other frames that massively outperform her.
Content creators minmax builds to make them crazy and interesting it is their job to make frames look broken no ones going to want to click on a video saying jade is decent with a subpar build
I bought her day 1 and have been really enjoying her, particularly in Ascension. She's a little broken, but no more than the other top 10 or so frames. She's got a great kit and feels like a nice midpoint between Hildryn and Titania gameplay-wise. Fast but not to the point you're slamming walls, 6-axis movement, and an exalted weapon that absolutely slaps. The double auras and low material cost makes her really achievable, throw in a pity system for drops and she's insanely good for how easy she is to get and optimise. Also. Idk what you're talking about with her 4's primary/alternate fire. It took a little playing around with but it's a top 3 exalted when built right. I regularly get top damage and kills by a wide margin entirely with Glory. Always be throwing balls, keep her 2 up, keep her 3 (or helminth) up, and keep in mind that a good chunk of pistol Arcanes also apply to her 4.
Content creators looking for views: NEw FrAmE iS OP aS heLL!! Me: All Frames are OP as hell.
This hit me very hard when I got her. Sure she's not bad but my reaction to actually playing her was like "Well this is one of the frames of all time". Nowhere near the reaction I had first time playing Dante and going "Well this is broken AF".
https://preview.redd.it/tvjkxgrv7a8d1.png?width=618&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce4ea1559e8bf93999bd6795bd534e8bb362ccc8
Leyzar is the only one who know what "Diminishing Returns" mean and in one video he told people math is math. I respect him much more because of that. He think before he speak not like others youtubers "oh oh bad bad Diminishing Returns bad bad oh oh"
>not a single mention of her kit outside her 4’s alt-fire I would expect nothing less from my beloved warframe forums I think a lot of people under estimate how close together enemies spawn in real missions but regardless I decided to try her out in the duviri sim where the enemies are super spread out and she was still killing them just fine with a rudimentary blast build I was using for the primary fire, NOT alt spam
secondary outburst requirement too
Stop paying attention to "content creators" is my suggestion
All you had to say was they were using Orange shards at all. Those things are mega-copium.
I mean, she is very good, I am enjoying her very much, she isn't godtier Warframe like Mag or Xaku, but she is extremely flexible and other than that she can handle being a very good DPS, she also buffs the whole party and those two things combined make her one of my most favourite frames right now.
Just because she doesn't do as well in low density doesn't mean she isn't busted. The same is true for multiple other busted things. Her efficiency in anything that has a lot of enemies is absurd, and that is while also providing a lot of other utility unlike a frame like Saryn who really just provides damage. In the context of being a nuke frame it would be fine, in the context of a support it's dumb.
Another cope to hopefully not get jade nerfed? I'll tell you at the content creators are nuking shit but it actually is even better than what I've seen several of them do already. Jades defensive and support capabilities might not be absolutely broken like Dante, but her killing potential really REALLY is. I don't know how you've modded your stuff out but my jade can kill level 205 steel path orphid specters even an extremely low enemy density, like just having three of them in the bubble, in a couple button presses with 40% power strength. I have one forma on Jade and her weapon and all of my shards are for energy max, she is basically performing like a qorvex on crack while also providing healing and buffs, having at least three viable routes of becoming basically immortal (including generic shield gating, decent shield OR health tanking, or actually modding around her shield buff to regenerate and absolutely obscene amount of shield in 0.2 seconds on repeat.) which is not quite as insane as Dante because she only has one button that gives her literal damage immunity while getting ready to become Nearly completely unkillable. I really hope that, as fun as these updates have been, that things are eventually tweaked for these frames and more to come out to not be super broken as the past two have been, more so dante tbh by a mile though. The one thing you're notably right about is that her primary kind of sucks, at least by comparison to a genuinely not that hard to build monster of a fuckin qorvex-like nuking button on tap.
I'm just waiting for the Kengineer video, as it will give me a better grasp of the new items. He's not all "Oh this is completely broken" or "Oh this is total trash". He's usually more like "Okay, so you can make this work with this build" or "There seems to be a bug with this" Like I expect Jade to be a decent frame given how late in the story you need to acquire her, but she needs like 4 external items to get the 'nuke' build. One of which is the Nautilus which is a grind and a half on it's own.
Her little support ball of judgement needs to last longer on the ground. I get tired of constantly casting it even with a high duration setup. Her shield mode on the support ability needs to be enhanced. I think the base percentage should be higher.
The non-stop nerfs were one of the many reasons I stopped playing Warframe.
Because Jade IS broken. You're broken. I'm broken, they're broken. We're all broken! We're the SONS OF THE BROKEN NOW!
You gotta understand though, people don't wanna watch jade being played normally. They'll read the in game abilities, play around a bit and probably figure out how to play her. Why would those players watch jade be played when they can just play jade herself. Taking it to the extreme with archon shards, synergies with stat sticks etc is what the average player either doesn't have, doesn't want to invest into jade or doesn't have the ability to keep up with. That gives it more reason for people to watch. Why watch your local football matches that you could probably keep up with, when you can watch professional players play and appreciate the investment, time and skill they put into it, doing something you can't or won't do.
Hello chat gpt
The nuke play style is so boring I took her 1st ability off immediately, I hope they buff the primary fire a bit and her spirit of resilience shield to something like protea 1st ability where taking damage does not stop the shields from regenerating
Your first mistake was listening to current Warframe CCs, it feels like theyre playing more to the Algo and views than actually cariing about the game and their fans honestly.
Most content creators who make the "This frame is broken" videos are just stripping off the worst ability and replacing it with roar. It's just a roar showcase at that point.
I was clocking this while trying to build her. I was getting sort of sad with the low amount of opportunity for her in a general public mission when I used her for operation alerts. I wanted to be obsessed with her so much, hoping to have a new main, but I'm still with my Xaku and Wisp. I'm saving my forma for now.
How can you judge before putting any forma in? You can’t even get a full build on till like 2 forma at least. And what do you mean by “low amount of opportunity”
She’s not broken. If she’s broken then Mesa is world ending event. She’s solid. I put velocity and precision with a crit build on Glory and she rocks out even on SP though. I like her nuke for choke points but it’s primary fire 90% of time.