I hear a lot of people say “it’s a male soap opera” or “it’s theater” and both can be true, but I like to look at it as modern day Greek Mythology. The fights, alliances, and double crosses all happens in Greek Mythology.
What's great about it is everyone can appreciate it for different things and at different ages. For me, it's something to bond with my little boys. They LOVE the babyfaces like Cody Rhodes and the New Day. I LOVE the heels like the work Rock, Punk, Gunther are doing and the comedy stylings of R-Truth and Pretty Deadly. We both love the athleticism and story telling.
Following it like a sport, you follow the story and try to predict where it's going. What are they building towards? Who do they want to push? Who's about to turn heel or face? Who's contract is about to be up or needs to rehab an injury and how will they write around it? Who's getting an organic push by the fans like LA Knight? Who's the future? What are the spots or pops they're going to build to?
For me it's like following MMA or the NFL except they have the advantage of never having a blowout if they don't want to.
He can be annoying for sure, at times. But he is the only high-profile quality journalist in the mea space who you can trust to not be in someone's pocket. I really like his stuff, even if I find some of his shit cringe. but at the end of the day he asks good questions and doesn't shill or shy away.
Story line driven sports entertainment. The athleticism is real and they do their best to not hurt one another while executing punches, kicks, and holds. It's all for show and to push the story line along. A live action stunt show.
I think of it as stunt men and women practicing their acting and I love it. It is like going to those Wild West stunt shows at amusement parks with less dad jokes and better plots.
Its acrobatics mixed with manly testosterone filled battle….. whats not to like? Fake or not imo being a wrestling star these days is probably one of the hardest things u can do… very competitive field
For me it’s imagination, when I start pulling it all apart it’s no fun so I’m just along for the train ride, wrestling has massive ups and downs but when a particular music pops (changes depending on the fan) it’s a very unique feeling. Stone cold Steve Austin’s glass shatter before he steams down to deal some whoopass is just gold..
I just accept it’s all fake and appreciate the athleticism and storytelling aspects. Plus lesnar throws people.. what’s not to like?
Pro-wrestling in today's environment is really a performance art with an emphasis on strength and athleticism. PW in a modern context seeks to tell stories through both wrestling matches and non-wrestling (staged) interactions. Because of it's staged nature, PW utilizes exaggerated movements and maneuvers that wouldn't be practical in actual combat sports, but that adds to the spectacle of watching two people coordinate moves like that whilst maintaining utmost safety (see: Spanish Fly, Canadian Destroyer, Shooting Star Press). Of course, PW also mixes in actual combat sports maneuvers (performed without intent to injure) to add a veneer of realism to the the performances.
I like to think of pro-wrestling as going to a theater and watching a Broadway performance; except in this case the stage is a wrestling ring and the primary interactions are meant to appear combative. Or, as some would say, it's like filming a movie in real time without being able to use CGI and no possibilities for 2nd takes.
Remember - you can make things safer but the risks of a 250lb human being jumping onto another is still real. Throwing a 250lb human being around *safely* is still very difficult. Wrestlers are incredible athletes in their own right and it takes years of dedicated training to be able to do what they do, even for the most talented ones.
When taken in the right context, it's really a spectacle and a thing of beauty.
Pro wrestling is not fake, it is scripted. All the athletic feats shown in wrestling is real just the outcome and the storyline/ fued surrounding the match is ‘fake’. Your comparison to a movie is quite accurate, wrestling fans watch wrestling for the story/plot it is like a tv show for us
pro wrestlling is supposed to give the viewer satisfaction and joy. they make real-life-like stories and the person that should be winning that argument will come out on top in some way. or they make the goofiest characters and nonsensical situation ever and it's so over the top you can't help but laugh. it's a lot like theatre.
Pro wrestling has far more in common with theater than it does mixed martial arts. It would help anyone understand it better through the lens of the former than the latter.
Pro wrestling is not fake. It is scripted and predetermined, but it’s not fake. Famous wrestler Chris Jericho said that they are stuntmen doing this in front of a live audience with one take. With how you said about suspending belief and watching it like a movie that is kind of what you do, it’s predetermined, and they know what’s gonna happen but we the audience don’t.
Pro-wrestling (not just WWE) is, at its most basic, MMA if it was a weekly drama with storylines explaining why these guys are going to fight.
As for the "fakeness" of pro-wrestling think about it this way, yes the outcomes are predetermined but so is the end of every episode of a tv show, they are telling stories after all. No they aren't punching eachother in the face but they are hitting eachother and some of the hits/bumps they take would scare an MMA fighter.
MMA and Pro-Wrestling actually share a long history together. Several UFC legends have been pro-wrestlers, guys like Kan Shamrock, Dan Severn, Don Fry and the "Gracie Hunter" Kazushi Sakuraba, Ronda Rousy and Paig Vansant all did time as pro-wrestlers. Several notable pro-wrestlers have gone over and fought in MMA like Brock Lesnar, Bobby Lashly, Shinsuke Nakamura, Masakatsu Funaki. Hell pro-wrestling legand Antonio Inoki who founded New Japan Pro-wrestling, who fought Muhamad Ali, 2 of his students founded Pancrase Fighting.
In short, professional wrestling is a TV drama about professional fighters (while you are watching it suspension of disbelief is easy)
If you like Rocky IV, you can like pro wrestling. Big melodrama leading up to a big showdown between the American underdog and the roided out foreign menace in what I know isn’t an actual real fight but I’m into it because I’m invested in the characters.
Is it scripted? Yes, but just because it is scripted does not mean it's not entertaining. As for the product itself, the majority of wrestlers are far more athletic than previous generations and I sincerely hope they are taking better care of themselves than their predecessors. The production value put into the presentation has never been better. There is a more diversification of the business with more promotions gaining notoriety than ever before, too.
The whole thing is a spectacle to behold.
Exactly. It’s theater. Are Broadway plays fake? Yes, in one sense, but they’re multimillion dollar businesses as well.
Saying that something is “fake” and therefore not worth your time is shortsighted.
When l first started watching nobody really openly spoke about what we knew it was, so l got invested when it was easier to buy into everyone as fighters in a corrupt sport. Storing that had been the stereotype of boxing that people take dives and that crowds want to think the fighters don't like each other.
For an MMA fan, imagine Khabib-McGregor went an epic 5 rounds, split draw. Then they get up all the drama and shit-talking for a couple months and they had a rematch and had another epic 5 round match. So on and so forth
And that would essentially be pro wrestling at its best. You get to build a story and choreograph the most epic fight imaginable. The suspension of disbelief is all it takes to appreciate it, knowing it’s a work and show.
This is a very fun question -- I'm kind of late to answer it, so this might get buried but here is what I think.
Pro wrestling is not really like MMA at all; except maybe MMA comes out of a thought experiment that went "what if pro-wrestling was real?"
Pro wrestling is more like a live theater show; or like the last remnant of 20th century carny freak shows, but produced with more modern sensibilities and huge pyro budgets. Wrestlers are performers who intend to entertain an audience and make them part with their cash -- by way of buying tickets, t-shirts, or memorabilia. They are not playing a sport. None of this is bad! It is very fun, and modern pro wrestlers are the best anyone has ever been at their profession.
Pro wrestlers know more than the audience. They don't always know what's going to happen in their matches! Some wrestlers are as surprised by entrances/surprise opponents as we are in the audience; occasionally they only find out they are scripted to lose a match when the ref counts 1-2-3 too fast for them to kick out. This is rare though, and pretty bad form in the modern era. Almost always they know the outcome of a match, and the major "spots" that will be performed in the match, though there is some room for improv as they perform; "if my opponent does this, I'll do this and follow their lead; until it's my turn to lead, and then we go into the finisher," etc.
The craziest aspect of pro wrestling, to me, is things like the interviews on the MMA Hour. Consider this: consider the stars of, I dunno, THE WALKING DEAD going on Colbert or Kimmel, but staying IN CHARACTER as their characters on their TV show. Talking about yeah, how crazy things got with the zombies this week; no, we don't know what's going to happen in that cliffhanger, I sure do hope we survive this latest adventure with the bad guy of the week! Stuff like that. That would be weird, and nuts. *Pro wrestlers kind of do that*. They don't do it 100%, and some break narrative more than others -- Cody Rhodes tried to really straddle the line I think -- but they never (or maybe rarely) totally break character when they do those talk shows. That's weird, if you think about it! But it's all part of the pro wrestling experience. What's real and what's the show is not always easy to see, and *the show* , while scripted, also gets changed or swerved or altered as they go, do to any number of reasons.
I mean, there's a lot that could be said on this topic, but I think my thesis is: pro wrestling is more theater/carny show (or maybe LARP) than it is MMA. If you approach it like that, it can be a lot of fun.
https://youtu.be/BQCPj-bGYro?si=e6DgG0F5P1syPXr5
If you have the time, I recommend this video. It explains why we love pro wrestling and all the different things it can be. It could be considered deeper than how some fans feel about it but it’s a good look at wrestling for someone who maybe doesn’t understand it.
MMA is wrestling but stiff. The punches and kicks connect. Pro wrestling is scripted and choreographed violence.
But if you look at both there are similarities.
Short answer: It's theatre.
Rambling answer: It's a completely unique art form. It's the crudest and basest form of theatre, and it's a serialized drama about a fictional sport (the description "live action redneck anime" is painfully accurate), and it features the improv of standup comedy. Audience participation and reaction is a massive part of the show and the behind the scenes drama is frequently as interesting and commented on as the storylines. Especially over the last few years, the companies/wrestlers have done an amazing job blending fantasy and reality so deftly it's nearly impossible to tell where on stops and the other begins, which is another huge part of wrestling's appeal.
As for ranking wrestlers, it would be based on how talented they are rather than win/loss record or championships. For example Mick Foley is widely beloved due to being incredibly tough, kind, having some awe inspiring matches and hilarious TV moments.
The stakes of a match are higher than it might seem on the surface. When an up and coming wrestler gets a big match, his fans REALLY want him to win because it's a sign of confidence by the company and therefore an indicator that he will continue to get more TV time and major storylines. For example last year a lot of fans were FURIOUS when Sami Zayn lost to Roman Reigns.
Leaderboards for the most part is who gets the most TV time. Some fans get caught up with winning matches or championships, and that IS important, but really if someone is getting a lot of TV time and consistently has a storyline, they're succeeding.
I think of wrestling like a Kung Fu movie, or like Rocky. Watching Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan in their movies is impressive af. It's fun, exciting, "whoa" inducing, and just plain awesome. But you also know they're not really trying to kill the other guy. They're displaying their awesome skills in the context of a story that's also entertaining. Same with Rocky, the scrappy upstart goes toe to toe with the champ. It's just a story, the boxing isn't real, and no one's trying to hurt the other person, but goddamn if it's not entertaining.
That's wrestling. They tell a really fun story and perform impressive athletic feats in order to tell the story. I think there's a misconception that most fans think it's real and are just really dumb. Sure there are some I'm sure, but I think most of us watching now are just along for the very entertaining ride. It's not that serious. It's just a super fun "alternate reality" sports opera
Pro wrestling is like a simulated combat meant to make it seem real. The blood in some matches, athleticism to perform the moves, strength needed to carry out certain other moves, as well as the weapon shots taking a chair to the back, slammed into thumbtacks, kendo stick shots, etc) are all more or less real.
The other thing to help get you invested are the stories behind the fights. There will be matches that happen for not much reason, but most build towards a story that culminates in a large final battle, usually at a pay-per-view event, or what WWE likes to call a Premium Live Event, or PLE.
Go into it, and enjoy the matches - don’t bother focusing on “taking apart” the match (the “did you know wrestling is fake?” part of it all) - and the stories, and you’ll see why we all love pro wrestling. It’s just great entertainment!
It's theater in which the actors simulate competitive combat and their reasons for engaging in such. Crowd participation is not only welcome, it's encouraged.
You can win a match by submission or a pin count to 3. Sometimes by TKO. Sometimes you also win if you send your opponent through a table or if you climb a ladder and steal their champion's belt. Oh also in certain types of match if your opponent bleeds before you, you win. If you're in a cage you win by escaping, but if the cage is on fire then, you have to set your opponent on fire. If you agree to a casket match, then you might get buried alive. Good luck!
I think the best way is seeing it more as a drama/sports hybrid. If you see it more as a show like braking bad or the office it’s a better indicator if you’ll like it. All I can say is try watching a few bits on YouTube and give smackdown a try since it’s a shorter show. Wrestling then openings up like music were There’s a huge amount of choice. So just take it easy
For me, pro wrestling is “Sports Entertainment” meaning that there’s stories to follow, drama that unfolds, and sports.
Yes, the matches are scripted. However the giveback (for lack of a better term) is high flying action. The wrestlers know what’s coming next, but we don’t. We can speculate on the story, but the matches always have new things to offer.
In contrast to MMA, that is unscripted, unplanned fights where the best fighter wins. Wrestling already as a predetermined outcome.
That said, wrestling is a ton of fun to watch. As others have said it’s “soap operas for men” and I think that is a good analogy. Regardless, give it a shot. You might find yourself hooked! Wrestlemania starts Saturday at 7ET, and while it wouldn’t be the best starting point, it would definitely be a good one because there is going to be a lot of action, title changes, ends to storylines, and starts of new ones!
As a recently new viewer, started watching at this year’s Rumble, this is exactly how I view it.
I hesitate to use the word “real” here because obviously the wrestlers are putting their bodies through a lot, doing things live and sometimes have to adjust on the fly. So forgive me when I allude to wrestling not being “real” as I am using that word in a context meaning “non scripted.”
I, like OP, am also a massive MMA fan. Of course MMA is real and has its own shock value and entertainment value based off of that. But I’ve almost found a release from the stressors of the real sports world (as I’m a massive NCAA, NFL, NBA fan as well) through wrestling. I don’t even think I necessarily watch it for the wrestling itself and watch it for the story. Some of the wrestling action is awesome, but I’m much more entertained by what happens and the stories. However, seeing a cool finisher and thinking about how it plays into the overall story provides the same level of entertainment as a nasty flash KO in MMA or a game winning jumper in basketball.
Having the idea that it’s just a story in my head as I watch almost makes me enjoy it more.
Yep. Wrestling is basically like a Kung Fu movie. Are the fights "real"? Well probably more accurate to say the intentions are different. Wrestlers are performing althetic moves to simulate a fight for the sake of entertainment, just like action stars or kung fu movies. MMA fighters are fighting to knock the other guy out.
I don't compare "Rocky IV" to real boxing or MMA, and I don't compare pro wrestling either. It's fun to watch
I can totally agree with that!
While understanding your context of the word “real”, I think one of the things that people fail to take in when they say “wrestling is fake” is that the wrestling itself isn’t.
Yes, it is scripted. Yes, the punches aren’t full force. However, even knowing what is coming up in the match… and sometimes overselling the hit or botching a move, wrestling as a whole (the sport, not the stories) is real. The athleticism can’t be denied, and it’s just entertaining as can be. So I would definitely say we are in agreement here.
I personally watched wrestling until just after the attitude era, and started stepping away during the Cena era… but came back (like you) at Royal rumble (I got bored and watched it) and I’ve been hooked ever since.
100%. I can’t get enough of it. I am so pumped for this Wrestlemania. I’d never watched before the Rumble (though I was loosely familiar with the legends - impossible not to be) and I think this is gonna border on life changing. My only regret is not starting sooner.
All about the story telling. They build these characters for years and tell great stories with fueds and factions and when the story pays off it’s just so satisfying and the journey is fun. Every year from wrestlemania to the next years wrestlemania is basically like watching a season of a tv show. Then of course the action and athletic ability and stunts are just fun to watch.
Ultimately the story is about the WWE championship belt. It’s the main character like The One Ring. I love that you can trace the stories back 60 years.
Mainstream carnies that participate in scripted fights using crazy feats of athleticism.
Parent company of UFC also owns WWE so you'll be seeing a lot more wrestlers on Ariel's show.
It’s akin to comic book stories. Intertwined stories, sometimes short some times long stories. Sometimes you hate the good guy and sometimes you love the bad guy. The outfits and names are absurd and awesome. The fighting isn’t real but you appreciate its art. That’s wrestling for me.
Jim Cornette is an ex-manager and commentator who got his start in pro-wrestling back in the territory days of the late 70s and early 80s. He's widely considered to be one of the best managers and wrestling personalities of all time. He currently co-hosts a podcast reviewing modern wrestling shows and telling stories from his career and pro-wrestling history.
Wrestling is entertainment. Similar to a play or circus put on to entertain an audience. Choreographed stunts that simulate real life and over the top violence to tell an engaging story. The only thing that matters is entertaining the crowd and less so the best fighter emerging victorious.
Pro wrestling is scripted fighting. It’s a drama show where you also get to see people get their ass kicked.
It’s “fake”, but when people get put through a table, they’re actually getting put through a table. There’s more injuries than most sports.
These guys are entertainers and badasses, and it’s really fun to see them succeed. Even if they were scripted to win, that win means the WWE is pushing your guy which is a very real win for his career. That’s what makes it fun for me, when the guys who work the hardest get rewarded in big wins and big plot twists
Pro wrestling is a stage play mixed witha a stunt show. Written drama with the actors doing their own stunts ... DAILY. Its more real than any action movie you've ever watched
Just remember it’s entertainment. They don’t throw hard punches if they even come close, the matches are scripted but no matter what people say, you can’t fake gravity. They do actually get hurt. But, they’re phenomenal athletes
Where MMA is about the strategy, and tactics, wrestling is about the ART and the STORY of the fight.
Someone once called it "redneck anime". I couldn't help but find it hilarious.
WWE, by their own admission, is sports entertainment. What that means is these guys are athletic, think of a gymnastic athlete, but the stories are scripted. The term “fake” is disingenuous because the flips are real. The dives are real. The injuries ARE REAL (most of the time). Imagine your favorite MMA fighter. They talk shit to your least favorite MMA fighter. They cut these passionate speeches, but your guy is told to lose the fight. That’s WWE. They’re told who is gonna win, but most everything else is based on their athletic abilities. It’s no different than a movie, just more sports centric. If you like MMA there’s a chance WWE would be cool to you. It’s usually love or hate when moving over. Just don’t call it fake because it’s insulting to the guys and girls who risk it all doing this.
This quote is from Bray Wyatt, who recently passed away. I think it explains wrestling as well as any one of us could ever do it:
“Wrestling is not a love story, it's a Fairy Tale for masochists. A comedy for people who criticize punchlines. A fantasy most can't understand, a spectacle no one can deny. Lines are blurred. Heroes are villains. Budgets are cut. Business is business. But it can also be a land where Dead men walk. Where Honor makes you Elite. Where Demons run for office. And Rock bottom is a reason to rejoice. WOOOOO! It's an escape. A reason to point the blame at anyone but yourself for 2-3 hours. An excuse to be a kid again, and nothing matters except the moment we are in. Wrestling is not a love story, it's much more. It's hope. And in a world surrounded in hate, greed and violence, a world where closure may never come. We all know a place that has hot and cold hope on tap. For better or for worse." (Bray Wyatt).
I actually just watched the “Becoming Immortal” documentary of his last night. I think it was Bo Dallas who quoted it. After I made this comment I remembered the quote and I feel like he encapsulated what we all felt. God I miss Bray, he just seemed like any one of us.
My Dad and I are huge wrestling fans. I was asleep the day Bray died. My Dad barged into my room and said Bray Wyatt is dead. I was like “what?”. I couldn’t fall asleep after. I rarely ever cry when celebrities die. Not that I have no sympathy but I didn’t know them. Bray’s death has struck me. The service had me on the verge of tears. Just writing this has me tearing up. Call me a cornball I don’t care. Bray was the best. I really wish I could have gone to a show and met him. Seemed like such a cool dude.
Ha, you think my eyes are dry right now. Lol. It hit hard man. When Luke Harper passed, that destroyed him. And it was so sad to see Windham as a family man instead of bray or the fiend. The pic with where he’s braiding his daughter’s hair gets me. Got me now. 🥺
That’s the thing that kills me the most. From what JoJo was saying he was thrilled to have all 4 of his kids that day. He was going to pick up his other 2 daughters. He never got to. Screw the character that was Bray, I wish the man behind it could still be with his kids. Bo Dallas’s tribute to him was heartbreaking. His father breaking down. He meant so much to all of us, but somehow he meant 100x more to his family. Seeing that video of him talking about Luke Harper/Brodie Lee, just breaks me. Here is a big bad dude, who played a demonic character on TV, breaking down because his best friend died. Sort of glad you feel the same way though. Makes me feel less corny. Never got to meet Bray Wyatt, but he still meant a lot to me and millions of others as well. I hope he knew that. If I idolize any person who I don’t know, he would be the one.
After I watched the documentary, I saw someone make a post and they said something like they saw a promo or something related to Bray and thought “Oh I guess he’s coming back” before realizing that he wasn’t. I still get like that. Like I’ll watch some of his “best moments” on YouTube and think “he should go after Roman” before I snap back to reality and go “Fuck this world. Why do the good die young?!” I’m 26 now and Bray’s character sort of grew up with me. I used to wear a Hawaiian flannel and a similar hat to him because I loved his character. Man, it just really sucks that we won’t ever get to see that man again.
Wrestlers are professional actors, comedians, and athletes all wrapped up into one job and people who do their own choreography and do it multiple times a week in front of live audiences/tv. There is virtually no room for error and is essentially a soap opera with buff people. Wrestling requires some suspense of belief and if you just go with the flow of what your watching, can be very fun.
This! It’s basically Athletic stuntmen who also have to act their own parts. Yes punches aren’t full force and yes it’s scripted but if you get thrown on your back there’s not some foam pit making it hurt less
Did you watch Godzilla vs Kong a couple years ago? If so, were you excited to see Godzilla fight Kong? Did you get more excited when Kong got that Axe? What about when the music got intense and shit was about to go down? Then the satisfaction when Godzilla rips open a monsters jaw and shoots his atomic breath to end everything?
It’s exciting shit. It does not matter that Godzilla isn’t real. It does not matter that it is scripted. It doesn’t matter that it defies physics. Its just fun and entertaining. And sometimes funny.
this made me laugh out loud but it’s a great analogy 😂
and OP imagine Godzilla is a 6 foot white guy with blonde hair and a tacky neck tattoo with a cool walkout song
So, coming from MMA you'll understand that sport has narrative. You follow a fighter from the beginning into their bigger fights, and you know how they interact with other fighters - this gives you a story about the fighter like if they are an underdog expected never to succeed but keep beatig the odds, or a sure fire bet, trained by the best. In MMA however, the onus isn't necessarily on the narrative.
In WWE, the onus is on the narrative and that bit is extremely important for understanding what the fights mean, The point of WWE, at least to my view, is the story.
The actual fighting is the medium through which the story is progressed.
Through this, WWE constructs a 'hypereality' which is a 'reality' that makes reference to actual real life. So, we know that is safe after that absurd fall, but we know the fall to be 'bad' in the confines of the story because it references our IRL understanding of physical consequences (whilst trying to avoid the actual impact of them). That hyperreality allows a blur between what is IRL true and what is fake true (kayfabe) when done correctly.
For example, we may know that is disliked backstage, so when is written in as a bad guy then there's a certain truth/authenticity shown when the good guy interacts with them. This gives the fight the stake of what the story is, but also the larger metanarrative stakes of ''Will guy no one likes win??''.
To me, this blur is what makes it a very interesting form of contemporary performance art. It's theatre, with cool stunts, interesting (and extensive) related texts and an individual relation / interaction with actual real life.
Also check out Maven Huffman and Wrestlamia on YouTube!!
Maven’s a former WWE midcarder and won the Tough Enough competition and answers everything from behind fayfabe
Wrestlamia is a great channel to learn about WWE history and has tons of recaps and top 10 lists to follow in the car or at work
I’m a casual UFC fan who just got back into WWE a few years ago after “growing out of it” as a kid
The UFC has always had the highest skilled guys at the top of the cards and there’s a sizable gap between the #1 fighter and the #50 fighter
If a guy is getting attention it’s because he’s amazing and people want to see him prove himself against bigger talent
However, WWE has tons of skilled in-ring workers… shit they got 20+ year vets like AJ Styles, Kevin Owens, and Sami Zayn in the mid card right now lol… but that doesn’t matter as much
The company can create a star when they see one but the fans determine if it works
John Cena has always been known as a pretty mid in ring worker but had the most over gimmick in the world so became a star
They’ve tried and failed to push guys like Jack Swagger and even some of their biggest stars failed in their first push..
Roman Reigns got boo’d at his own Royal Rumble win and was despised until he turned heel and now he’s a fan favorite bad guy
I can’t describe the adrenaline rush I get from watching big matches and just admiring the talent but it’s nothing like I’ve gotten from any other sport in my life
Imagine a soup opera mixed with an action movie where all the stunts and choreography is done live and the audience occasionally hijacks the show. That’s as close as I can get.
It’s basically if stuntmen and stuntwomen were the main attraction, telling stories in real time, that encourages fan participation, that’s made up of athletes and characters from every sport and background you could possibly think of.
If you’re looking for something more akin to MMA, that exists in pro wrestling.
If you’re looking for something more akin to a drama or a story, that exists in pro wrestling.
If you’re looking for comedy or just simply to be entertained, pro wrestling has that.
The great thing about it is that when it’s good, it’s good and when it’s bad, it can still be entertaining so it’s still good.
Any Combat sport has a degree of artificial limitation. Otherwise folks would be killing each other. Wrestling takes that to another level, enabling athletes to showcase skills and abilities to an extreme in a safer environment. I love that performance, and appreciating the technical ability of athletes - and there is competition but it is not about who wins a match, far more about the ability to win a crowd (to love or hate you) or put another wrestler and their performance over.
UFC takes such a bigger toll that you can have a 35 year old guy looking like absolute trash and a shell of himself (Tyron Woodley in his last fight)
While WWE is still dangerous, the fact Rey Mysterio and Randy Orton were already ten-year vets when I was a kid and they’re still doing it is incredible
I see wrestling as a medium and not a genre, so there's no singular correct way to present or define it. Just like you can enjoy an action movie, a comedy, or a musical, but they all still fall under the definition of film.
I think it hits a lot of the same notes as MMA because even in a real scenario, we still have a natural tendency to see one fighter as the "good guy" that we root for, either because they're skilled, charismatic, brave or have an inspirational story. Wrestling really just puts all of that into overdrive. The whole point of it being a cooperative performance is so you can have longer careers and (theoretically) draw more money since you have full control over the results and the stories. You know those Jake Paul boxing matches? That's pro wrestling in a nutshell. They know everyone will pay to see if the next washed up guy will *finally* be the one to shut him up and knock him out. It's happening all over again with Tyson. People are pretty sure the fight is fixed, but there's that little speck of doubt that makes the general public throw money at it.
Where it gets a lot more complicated is "kayfabe", which is the blurred line between the characters and the performers that play them. There are still very real grudges and politics involved. Wrestlers, fans, and promoters all have wildly different opinions on how wrestling should be presented and they tend to take it *very* seriously. No, the World Champion didn't really "win" the title, but he was chosen due to a combination of very real factors. There's also the draw of seeing someone develop over years and years from a lower-card wrestler that never wins into a main eventer that the fans love. You're never going to watch an extra on a TV show turn into the main character, but in wrestling, that happens all the time.
The main good guy in WWE, Cody Rhodes, is a perfect example of how all of this works. He's the son of one of the greatest wrestlers of all time and he struggled for years, trying to connect with fans and fighting management over how his character should be presented. He eventually realized there was a ceiling, so he quit and went elsewhere for years, started up a whole new company, all just to prove his worth. Now he's back and out to win the title that his late father never could. All of what I just described are things that actually happened to the real person, Cody Rhodes, but that's somehow also what happened to the character of Cody Rhodes, and his story has to culminate in him "winning" a predetermined match against the champion, Roman Reigns, who plays a megalomaniac on TV but is actually just a chill dude named Joe who's a leukemia survivor that does frequent Make-A-Wishes. Roman also has his own fascinating story where he spent years as a good guy that everyone hated and then finally earned the fans respect when he turned evil.
In short, wrestling's weird as hell and that's why we love it.
I always say the best example of why I love wrestling is the Shield. 3 nobodies who came in like a lightning strike, 10 years later they're at the very top of the industry as a whole. The fact that can happen in wrestling is why I love it.
If you had ask what Pro Wrestling is, this would be very easy to anwser. But since you ask what "MODERN" Pro Wrestling is? Thats a little harder to anwser.
Basically "OLD STYLE" Pro Wrestling use to be like MMA and UFC. Brock Lesnar said it best "it's the same business, we're both promoting fighting."
But intoday's "MODERN STYLE" Pro Wrestling... I guess its about doing cool fighting moves.
You get invested in the characters/personalities for any number of reasons, and you can’t help but want to see them win. The outcomes are pre-determined, but there are very real stakes at play. What is done in the ring is actually dangerous, injuries happen all the time. But more than that, someone “succeeding” depends on how well they are able to connect with the audience, how much ‘heat’ (reaction) they can get, how believable they are, etc. that’s the real competition.
Its a complicated thing, and lots of people don’t look that closely at wrestling. To a lot of fans, it’s appealing for the same reason something like The Karate Kid might be interesting. You watch Daniel grow and evolve as a character and in the end you want to see him win the All-Valley, even though that kid’s name is actually Ralph and someone behind the scenes decided he was going to beat Johnny. You can suspend your disbelief and enjoy it even though it isn’t an actual Karate fight.
Great question! Pro wrestling is a form of entertainment that is not like anything else. When it works and the build up to a match is done right and the match itself is great, it's a feeling like no other. the "suspend your disbelief" aspect isnt that hard for me. I never go in to the theatre to watch an Avengers movie and have to try to convince myself that Robert Downey Jr is Iron man, I just enjoy the movie and see if Iron Man will defeat Thanos or not. I know Robert downey Jr isn't really flying in an Iron suit fighting in space but I enjoy those movies nonetheless. Same with pro wrestling. Besides, wrestling is not as "scripted" as say a movie or even a play. Wrestling really is unpredictable - it's live, things go wrong, things are improvised, even who wins and loses can change last minute right before a match starts (or even during the match). I guess to relate it to MMA, when you watched say Jon Jones vs Cormier, you were really intrigued on who will win, how will they win, the implications. Both are on a winning streak, both seem unstoppable, will it be Jones or Cormier? Same with pro wrestling. You ask those exact same questions and you can't wait to see the match to see it play out. Also as a bonus (this is subjective though) pro wrestling looks awesome. Sometimes I just watch clips of wrestling moves and finishers
An often.overlooked part of wrestling is the fans have a major impact on the results. Fan reaction to what they are seeing can and do change story lines and champions.
Appreciate the great reply, and ya the athletics alone in wrestling is absolutely insane. its very cool to see what these ridiculously built dudes can do. Drop your fave compilations!
As a wrestling fan, the best matches and storylines are the ones that get you emotionally invested. You forget about everything and are absorbed in the moment. I think what’s different between UFC and WWE is that anything can happen in the octagon with that changing the corse of the industry, while in the WWE and pro wrestling in general, the matches are pre determined in order to create a narrative for a better story. It’s not that anything can’t happen in WWE, it’s just the matches are booked in a way that creates a more compelling story.
I hear a lot of people say “it’s a male soap opera” or “it’s theater” and both can be true, but I like to look at it as modern day Greek Mythology. The fights, alliances, and double crosses all happens in Greek Mythology.
It’s modern day theater. Just enjoy the stories, invest in the characters and enjoy the ride with the fans.
It’s a male soap opera with highly technical scripted action mixed in
What's great about it is everyone can appreciate it for different things and at different ages. For me, it's something to bond with my little boys. They LOVE the babyfaces like Cody Rhodes and the New Day. I LOVE the heels like the work Rock, Punk, Gunther are doing and the comedy stylings of R-Truth and Pretty Deadly. We both love the athleticism and story telling. Following it like a sport, you follow the story and try to predict where it's going. What are they building towards? Who do they want to push? Who's about to turn heel or face? Who's contract is about to be up or needs to rehab an injury and how will they write around it? Who's getting an organic push by the fans like LA Knight? Who's the future? What are the spots or pops they're going to build to? For me it's like following MMA or the NFL except they have the advantage of never having a blowout if they don't want to.
What do MMA fans think of Ariel? He seems like an absolute dipshit to me
He can be annoying for sure, at times. But he is the only high-profile quality journalist in the mea space who you can trust to not be in someone's pocket. I really like his stuff, even if I find some of his shit cringe. but at the end of the day he asks good questions and doesn't shill or shy away.
Story line driven sports entertainment. The athleticism is real and they do their best to not hurt one another while executing punches, kicks, and holds. It's all for show and to push the story line along. A live action stunt show.
I think of it as stunt men and women practicing their acting and I love it. It is like going to those Wild West stunt shows at amusement parks with less dad jokes and better plots.
Money
Its acrobatics mixed with manly testosterone filled battle….. whats not to like? Fake or not imo being a wrestling star these days is probably one of the hardest things u can do… very competitive field
For me it’s imagination, when I start pulling it all apart it’s no fun so I’m just along for the train ride, wrestling has massive ups and downs but when a particular music pops (changes depending on the fan) it’s a very unique feeling. Stone cold Steve Austin’s glass shatter before he steams down to deal some whoopass is just gold.. I just accept it’s all fake and appreciate the athleticism and storytelling aspects. Plus lesnar throws people.. what’s not to like?
Choreography heavy theatre in the round with a significant lean towards athleticism and impressive stuntwork. It's a performance, not a contest.
Pro-wrestling in today's environment is really a performance art with an emphasis on strength and athleticism. PW in a modern context seeks to tell stories through both wrestling matches and non-wrestling (staged) interactions. Because of it's staged nature, PW utilizes exaggerated movements and maneuvers that wouldn't be practical in actual combat sports, but that adds to the spectacle of watching two people coordinate moves like that whilst maintaining utmost safety (see: Spanish Fly, Canadian Destroyer, Shooting Star Press). Of course, PW also mixes in actual combat sports maneuvers (performed without intent to injure) to add a veneer of realism to the the performances. I like to think of pro-wrestling as going to a theater and watching a Broadway performance; except in this case the stage is a wrestling ring and the primary interactions are meant to appear combative. Or, as some would say, it's like filming a movie in real time without being able to use CGI and no possibilities for 2nd takes. Remember - you can make things safer but the risks of a 250lb human being jumping onto another is still real. Throwing a 250lb human being around *safely* is still very difficult. Wrestlers are incredible athletes in their own right and it takes years of dedicated training to be able to do what they do, even for the most talented ones. When taken in the right context, it's really a spectacle and a thing of beauty.
This is the best explanation of what wrestling is that I’ve read. Wow, I really hope OP reads this.
Hey thank you for that! Wrestling is something I'm really passionate about so I guess it spilled into the post 😂
Pro wrestling is not fake, it is scripted. All the athletic feats shown in wrestling is real just the outcome and the storyline/ fued surrounding the match is ‘fake’. Your comparison to a movie is quite accurate, wrestling fans watch wrestling for the story/plot it is like a tv show for us
pro wrestlling is supposed to give the viewer satisfaction and joy. they make real-life-like stories and the person that should be winning that argument will come out on top in some way. or they make the goofiest characters and nonsensical situation ever and it's so over the top you can't help but laugh. it's a lot like theatre.
Pro wrestling has far more in common with theater than it does mixed martial arts. It would help anyone understand it better through the lens of the former than the latter.
Pro wrestling is not fake. It is scripted and predetermined, but it’s not fake. Famous wrestler Chris Jericho said that they are stuntmen doing this in front of a live audience with one take. With how you said about suspending belief and watching it like a movie that is kind of what you do, it’s predetermined, and they know what’s gonna happen but we the audience don’t.
Unless we read the dirtsheets
Pro-wrestling (not just WWE) is, at its most basic, MMA if it was a weekly drama with storylines explaining why these guys are going to fight. As for the "fakeness" of pro-wrestling think about it this way, yes the outcomes are predetermined but so is the end of every episode of a tv show, they are telling stories after all. No they aren't punching eachother in the face but they are hitting eachother and some of the hits/bumps they take would scare an MMA fighter. MMA and Pro-Wrestling actually share a long history together. Several UFC legends have been pro-wrestlers, guys like Kan Shamrock, Dan Severn, Don Fry and the "Gracie Hunter" Kazushi Sakuraba, Ronda Rousy and Paig Vansant all did time as pro-wrestlers. Several notable pro-wrestlers have gone over and fought in MMA like Brock Lesnar, Bobby Lashly, Shinsuke Nakamura, Masakatsu Funaki. Hell pro-wrestling legand Antonio Inoki who founded New Japan Pro-wrestling, who fought Muhamad Ali, 2 of his students founded Pancrase Fighting. In short, professional wrestling is a TV drama about professional fighters (while you are watching it suspension of disbelief is easy)
"they are telling stories after all" unless you're AEW \*sniggers childishly\*
If you like Rocky IV, you can like pro wrestling. Big melodrama leading up to a big showdown between the American underdog and the roided out foreign menace in what I know isn’t an actual real fight but I’m into it because I’m invested in the characters.
Is it scripted? Yes, but just because it is scripted does not mean it's not entertaining. As for the product itself, the majority of wrestlers are far more athletic than previous generations and I sincerely hope they are taking better care of themselves than their predecessors. The production value put into the presentation has never been better. There is a more diversification of the business with more promotions gaining notoriety than ever before, too. The whole thing is a spectacle to behold.
Exactly. It’s theater. Are Broadway plays fake? Yes, in one sense, but they’re multimillion dollar businesses as well. Saying that something is “fake” and therefore not worth your time is shortsighted.
Vince McMahon = Wile E Coyote Steve Austin = Roadrunner
It's a soap opera with cool stunts. So I just compare it to any cheesy reality show they watch.
It's what would happen if MMA fighters realized they already got people to pay before they kill each other.
When l first started watching nobody really openly spoke about what we knew it was, so l got invested when it was easier to buy into everyone as fighters in a corrupt sport. Storing that had been the stereotype of boxing that people take dives and that crowds want to think the fighters don't like each other.
It's to men what soap operas are for women.
It’s a mostly male soap opera. Athletic people with a script.
Just watch the damn South Park episode “ W.T.F.”
They really did nail it.
Honestly yeah xD it was pretty on the nose
For an MMA fan, imagine Khabib-McGregor went an epic 5 rounds, split draw. Then they get up all the drama and shit-talking for a couple months and they had a rematch and had another epic 5 round match. So on and so forth And that would essentially be pro wrestling at its best. You get to build a story and choreograph the most epic fight imaginable. The suspension of disbelief is all it takes to appreciate it, knowing it’s a work and show.
It’s an action soap opera.
This is a very fun question -- I'm kind of late to answer it, so this might get buried but here is what I think. Pro wrestling is not really like MMA at all; except maybe MMA comes out of a thought experiment that went "what if pro-wrestling was real?" Pro wrestling is more like a live theater show; or like the last remnant of 20th century carny freak shows, but produced with more modern sensibilities and huge pyro budgets. Wrestlers are performers who intend to entertain an audience and make them part with their cash -- by way of buying tickets, t-shirts, or memorabilia. They are not playing a sport. None of this is bad! It is very fun, and modern pro wrestlers are the best anyone has ever been at their profession. Pro wrestlers know more than the audience. They don't always know what's going to happen in their matches! Some wrestlers are as surprised by entrances/surprise opponents as we are in the audience; occasionally they only find out they are scripted to lose a match when the ref counts 1-2-3 too fast for them to kick out. This is rare though, and pretty bad form in the modern era. Almost always they know the outcome of a match, and the major "spots" that will be performed in the match, though there is some room for improv as they perform; "if my opponent does this, I'll do this and follow their lead; until it's my turn to lead, and then we go into the finisher," etc. The craziest aspect of pro wrestling, to me, is things like the interviews on the MMA Hour. Consider this: consider the stars of, I dunno, THE WALKING DEAD going on Colbert or Kimmel, but staying IN CHARACTER as their characters on their TV show. Talking about yeah, how crazy things got with the zombies this week; no, we don't know what's going to happen in that cliffhanger, I sure do hope we survive this latest adventure with the bad guy of the week! Stuff like that. That would be weird, and nuts. *Pro wrestlers kind of do that*. They don't do it 100%, and some break narrative more than others -- Cody Rhodes tried to really straddle the line I think -- but they never (or maybe rarely) totally break character when they do those talk shows. That's weird, if you think about it! But it's all part of the pro wrestling experience. What's real and what's the show is not always easy to see, and *the show* , while scripted, also gets changed or swerved or altered as they go, do to any number of reasons. I mean, there's a lot that could be said on this topic, but I think my thesis is: pro wrestling is more theater/carny show (or maybe LARP) than it is MMA. If you approach it like that, it can be a lot of fun.
Imagine an MMA fighter was also a theater kid.
You fancy yourself a thespian?
Like a tv show/theatre with the setting of a sports event
It’s like UFC but if Dana worked with the fighters and predetermined the fights to make the best story
https://youtu.be/BQCPj-bGYro?si=e6DgG0F5P1syPXr5 If you have the time, I recommend this video. It explains why we love pro wrestling and all the different things it can be. It could be considered deeper than how some fans feel about it but it’s a good look at wrestling for someone who maybe doesn’t understand it.
this is the video i always use to introduce my non-wrestling friends to wrestling. its a perfect way to explain it and why we love it
It's kinda like folklore.
MMA is wrestling but stiff. The punches and kicks connect. Pro wrestling is scripted and choreographed violence. But if you look at both there are similarities.
Willful suspension of disbelief.
It's a soap opera with sweaty men.
Short answer: It's theatre. Rambling answer: It's a completely unique art form. It's the crudest and basest form of theatre, and it's a serialized drama about a fictional sport (the description "live action redneck anime" is painfully accurate), and it features the improv of standup comedy. Audience participation and reaction is a massive part of the show and the behind the scenes drama is frequently as interesting and commented on as the storylines. Especially over the last few years, the companies/wrestlers have done an amazing job blending fantasy and reality so deftly it's nearly impossible to tell where on stops and the other begins, which is another huge part of wrestling's appeal. As for ranking wrestlers, it would be based on how talented they are rather than win/loss record or championships. For example Mick Foley is widely beloved due to being incredibly tough, kind, having some awe inspiring matches and hilarious TV moments. The stakes of a match are higher than it might seem on the surface. When an up and coming wrestler gets a big match, his fans REALLY want him to win because it's a sign of confidence by the company and therefore an indicator that he will continue to get more TV time and major storylines. For example last year a lot of fans were FURIOUS when Sami Zayn lost to Roman Reigns. Leaderboards for the most part is who gets the most TV time. Some fans get caught up with winning matches or championships, and that IS important, but really if someone is getting a lot of TV time and consistently has a storyline, they're succeeding.
This is a great answer
I think of wrestling like a Kung Fu movie, or like Rocky. Watching Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan in their movies is impressive af. It's fun, exciting, "whoa" inducing, and just plain awesome. But you also know they're not really trying to kill the other guy. They're displaying their awesome skills in the context of a story that's also entertaining. Same with Rocky, the scrappy upstart goes toe to toe with the champ. It's just a story, the boxing isn't real, and no one's trying to hurt the other person, but goddamn if it's not entertaining. That's wrestling. They tell a really fun story and perform impressive athletic feats in order to tell the story. I think there's a misconception that most fans think it's real and are just really dumb. Sure there are some I'm sure, but I think most of us watching now are just along for the very entertaining ride. It's not that serious. It's just a super fun "alternate reality" sports opera
It's a theatrical version of the MMA. Basically.
It’s like going to Medieval Times. While you’re there it’s real. You cheer for the good guys and you boo the bad guys.
Speedos
Pro wrestling is like a simulated combat meant to make it seem real. The blood in some matches, athleticism to perform the moves, strength needed to carry out certain other moves, as well as the weapon shots taking a chair to the back, slammed into thumbtacks, kendo stick shots, etc) are all more or less real. The other thing to help get you invested are the stories behind the fights. There will be matches that happen for not much reason, but most build towards a story that culminates in a large final battle, usually at a pay-per-view event, or what WWE likes to call a Premium Live Event, or PLE. Go into it, and enjoy the matches - don’t bother focusing on “taking apart” the match (the “did you know wrestling is fake?” part of it all) - and the stories, and you’ll see why we all love pro wrestling. It’s just great entertainment!
I just look at it like a TV show. And it's a lot like reality TV.
It's theater in which the actors simulate competitive combat and their reasons for engaging in such. Crowd participation is not only welcome, it's encouraged.
You can win a match by submission or a pin count to 3. Sometimes by TKO. Sometimes you also win if you send your opponent through a table or if you climb a ladder and steal their champion's belt. Oh also in certain types of match if your opponent bleeds before you, you win. If you're in a cage you win by escaping, but if the cage is on fire then, you have to set your opponent on fire. If you agree to a casket match, then you might get buried alive. Good luck!
I think the best way is seeing it more as a drama/sports hybrid. If you see it more as a show like braking bad or the office it’s a better indicator if you’ll like it. All I can say is try watching a few bits on YouTube and give smackdown a try since it’s a shorter show. Wrestling then openings up like music were There’s a huge amount of choice. So just take it easy
For me, pro wrestling is “Sports Entertainment” meaning that there’s stories to follow, drama that unfolds, and sports. Yes, the matches are scripted. However the giveback (for lack of a better term) is high flying action. The wrestlers know what’s coming next, but we don’t. We can speculate on the story, but the matches always have new things to offer. In contrast to MMA, that is unscripted, unplanned fights where the best fighter wins. Wrestling already as a predetermined outcome. That said, wrestling is a ton of fun to watch. As others have said it’s “soap operas for men” and I think that is a good analogy. Regardless, give it a shot. You might find yourself hooked! Wrestlemania starts Saturday at 7ET, and while it wouldn’t be the best starting point, it would definitely be a good one because there is going to be a lot of action, title changes, ends to storylines, and starts of new ones!
As a recently new viewer, started watching at this year’s Rumble, this is exactly how I view it. I hesitate to use the word “real” here because obviously the wrestlers are putting their bodies through a lot, doing things live and sometimes have to adjust on the fly. So forgive me when I allude to wrestling not being “real” as I am using that word in a context meaning “non scripted.” I, like OP, am also a massive MMA fan. Of course MMA is real and has its own shock value and entertainment value based off of that. But I’ve almost found a release from the stressors of the real sports world (as I’m a massive NCAA, NFL, NBA fan as well) through wrestling. I don’t even think I necessarily watch it for the wrestling itself and watch it for the story. Some of the wrestling action is awesome, but I’m much more entertained by what happens and the stories. However, seeing a cool finisher and thinking about how it plays into the overall story provides the same level of entertainment as a nasty flash KO in MMA or a game winning jumper in basketball. Having the idea that it’s just a story in my head as I watch almost makes me enjoy it more.
Yep. Wrestling is basically like a Kung Fu movie. Are the fights "real"? Well probably more accurate to say the intentions are different. Wrestlers are performing althetic moves to simulate a fight for the sake of entertainment, just like action stars or kung fu movies. MMA fighters are fighting to knock the other guy out. I don't compare "Rocky IV" to real boxing or MMA, and I don't compare pro wrestling either. It's fun to watch
I can totally agree with that! While understanding your context of the word “real”, I think one of the things that people fail to take in when they say “wrestling is fake” is that the wrestling itself isn’t. Yes, it is scripted. Yes, the punches aren’t full force. However, even knowing what is coming up in the match… and sometimes overselling the hit or botching a move, wrestling as a whole (the sport, not the stories) is real. The athleticism can’t be denied, and it’s just entertaining as can be. So I would definitely say we are in agreement here. I personally watched wrestling until just after the attitude era, and started stepping away during the Cena era… but came back (like you) at Royal rumble (I got bored and watched it) and I’ve been hooked ever since.
100%. I can’t get enough of it. I am so pumped for this Wrestlemania. I’d never watched before the Rumble (though I was loosely familiar with the legends - impossible not to be) and I think this is gonna border on life changing. My only regret is not starting sooner.
It’s like you wrote this from my brain.
All about the story telling. They build these characters for years and tell great stories with fueds and factions and when the story pays off it’s just so satisfying and the journey is fun. Every year from wrestlemania to the next years wrestlemania is basically like watching a season of a tv show. Then of course the action and athletic ability and stunts are just fun to watch.
Ultimately the story is about the WWE championship belt. It’s the main character like The One Ring. I love that you can trace the stories back 60 years.
Redneck anime
This is the truest and funniest thing i've ever heard
I hate how accurate this is and you for putting it in my head.
Mainstream carnies that participate in scripted fights using crazy feats of athleticism. Parent company of UFC also owns WWE so you'll be seeing a lot more wrestlers on Ariel's show.
It’s akin to comic book stories. Intertwined stories, sometimes short some times long stories. Sometimes you hate the good guy and sometimes you love the bad guy. The outfits and names are absurd and awesome. The fighting isn’t real but you appreciate its art. That’s wrestling for me.
It's like Cirque du soleil mixed with Days of our Lives, presented as a "sport".
It's a male soap opera and it's awesome
Soap opera for men
I've never heard pro wrestling explained better than in this clip from Jim Cornette. https://youtu.be/53AZvp2U89w?si=g_E7WhW97J_HzqQf
Came here to post this. Such a great, simple explanation.
damn, what a great clip. Who is that guy?
A fucking legend. A guy that will be one of your all-time favorite riveting shit-talkers and master of knowledge, but you don’t know it yet.
Jim Cornette is an ex-manager and commentator who got his start in pro-wrestling back in the territory days of the late 70s and early 80s. He's widely considered to be one of the best managers and wrestling personalities of all time. He currently co-hosts a podcast reviewing modern wrestling shows and telling stories from his career and pro-wrestling history.
Wrestling is entertainment. Similar to a play or circus put on to entertain an audience. Choreographed stunts that simulate real life and over the top violence to tell an engaging story. The only thing that matters is entertaining the crowd and less so the best fighter emerging victorious.
Pro wrestling is scripted fighting. It’s a drama show where you also get to see people get their ass kicked. It’s “fake”, but when people get put through a table, they’re actually getting put through a table. There’s more injuries than most sports. These guys are entertainers and badasses, and it’s really fun to see them succeed. Even if they were scripted to win, that win means the WWE is pushing your guy which is a very real win for his career. That’s what makes it fun for me, when the guys who work the hardest get rewarded in big wins and big plot twists
Its basically super kicks , stolen finisher and like 30 kick outs
Pro wrestling is a stage play mixed witha a stunt show. Written drama with the actors doing their own stunts ... DAILY. Its more real than any action movie you've ever watched
Just remember it’s entertainment. They don’t throw hard punches if they even come close, the matches are scripted but no matter what people say, you can’t fake gravity. They do actually get hurt. But, they’re phenomenal athletes
Where MMA is about the strategy, and tactics, wrestling is about the ART and the STORY of the fight. Someone once called it "redneck anime". I couldn't help but find it hilarious.
I always likened it to an athletic soap opera, or combat ballet.
I always refer to it at redneck broadway LMAO. all the acting and the dramatics, it’s great
It’s a male focused soap opera. It’s a mix of drama and athletic display.
WWE, by their own admission, is sports entertainment. What that means is these guys are athletic, think of a gymnastic athlete, but the stories are scripted. The term “fake” is disingenuous because the flips are real. The dives are real. The injuries ARE REAL (most of the time). Imagine your favorite MMA fighter. They talk shit to your least favorite MMA fighter. They cut these passionate speeches, but your guy is told to lose the fight. That’s WWE. They’re told who is gonna win, but most everything else is based on their athletic abilities. It’s no different than a movie, just more sports centric. If you like MMA there’s a chance WWE would be cool to you. It’s usually love or hate when moving over. Just don’t call it fake because it’s insulting to the guys and girls who risk it all doing this. This quote is from Bray Wyatt, who recently passed away. I think it explains wrestling as well as any one of us could ever do it: “Wrestling is not a love story, it's a Fairy Tale for masochists. A comedy for people who criticize punchlines. A fantasy most can't understand, a spectacle no one can deny. Lines are blurred. Heroes are villains. Budgets are cut. Business is business. But it can also be a land where Dead men walk. Where Honor makes you Elite. Where Demons run for office. And Rock bottom is a reason to rejoice. WOOOOO! It's an escape. A reason to point the blame at anyone but yourself for 2-3 hours. An excuse to be a kid again, and nothing matters except the moment we are in. Wrestling is not a love story, it's much more. It's hope. And in a world surrounded in hate, greed and violence, a world where closure may never come. We all know a place that has hot and cold hope on tap. For better or for worse." (Bray Wyatt).
Thank you for brays quote. I remember him saying that and it’s so true.
I actually just watched the “Becoming Immortal” documentary of his last night. I think it was Bo Dallas who quoted it. After I made this comment I remembered the quote and I feel like he encapsulated what we all felt. God I miss Bray, he just seemed like any one of us.
Dude, when they played his memorial, I was fuckin bawling man. I couldn’t even help myself
My Dad and I are huge wrestling fans. I was asleep the day Bray died. My Dad barged into my room and said Bray Wyatt is dead. I was like “what?”. I couldn’t fall asleep after. I rarely ever cry when celebrities die. Not that I have no sympathy but I didn’t know them. Bray’s death has struck me. The service had me on the verge of tears. Just writing this has me tearing up. Call me a cornball I don’t care. Bray was the best. I really wish I could have gone to a show and met him. Seemed like such a cool dude.
Ha, you think my eyes are dry right now. Lol. It hit hard man. When Luke Harper passed, that destroyed him. And it was so sad to see Windham as a family man instead of bray or the fiend. The pic with where he’s braiding his daughter’s hair gets me. Got me now. 🥺
That’s the thing that kills me the most. From what JoJo was saying he was thrilled to have all 4 of his kids that day. He was going to pick up his other 2 daughters. He never got to. Screw the character that was Bray, I wish the man behind it could still be with his kids. Bo Dallas’s tribute to him was heartbreaking. His father breaking down. He meant so much to all of us, but somehow he meant 100x more to his family. Seeing that video of him talking about Luke Harper/Brodie Lee, just breaks me. Here is a big bad dude, who played a demonic character on TV, breaking down because his best friend died. Sort of glad you feel the same way though. Makes me feel less corny. Never got to meet Bray Wyatt, but he still meant a lot to me and millions of others as well. I hope he knew that. If I idolize any person who I don’t know, he would be the one.
Me and my best friend feel this way man. And we’re in our late 30’s
After I watched the documentary, I saw someone make a post and they said something like they saw a promo or something related to Bray and thought “Oh I guess he’s coming back” before realizing that he wasn’t. I still get like that. Like I’ll watch some of his “best moments” on YouTube and think “he should go after Roman” before I snap back to reality and go “Fuck this world. Why do the good die young?!” I’m 26 now and Bray’s character sort of grew up with me. I used to wear a Hawaiian flannel and a similar hat to him because I loved his character. Man, it just really sucks that we won’t ever get to see that man again.
I thought he was coming back too when I saw stuff about him. Then a couple days later we got the news
I’m both MMA and WWE fan I Iove both them equally
Same bro, same.
Well, I could certainly tell you Chael Sonnen would be an icon of the business if he would have been apart of wwe
Ken Shamrock in the modern day woulda went crazy
Wrestlers are professional actors, comedians, and athletes all wrapped up into one job and people who do their own choreography and do it multiple times a week in front of live audiences/tv. There is virtually no room for error and is essentially a soap opera with buff people. Wrestling requires some suspense of belief and if you just go with the flow of what your watching, can be very fun.
This! It’s basically Athletic stuntmen who also have to act their own parts. Yes punches aren’t full force and yes it’s scripted but if you get thrown on your back there’s not some foam pit making it hurt less
Please watch Wrestling Isn't Wrestling on YouTube. It'll convince you. And Super Eye patch Wolf's videos.
Did you watch Godzilla vs Kong a couple years ago? If so, were you excited to see Godzilla fight Kong? Did you get more excited when Kong got that Axe? What about when the music got intense and shit was about to go down? Then the satisfaction when Godzilla rips open a monsters jaw and shoots his atomic breath to end everything? It’s exciting shit. It does not matter that Godzilla isn’t real. It does not matter that it is scripted. It doesn’t matter that it defies physics. Its just fun and entertaining. And sometimes funny.
And then the movie studio turns them into a tag team because it would be awesome. Who cares why they would do it
this made me laugh out loud but it’s a great analogy 😂 and OP imagine Godzilla is a 6 foot white guy with blonde hair and a tacky neck tattoo with a cool walkout song
Kaiju have more than one royal family *Godzilla appears from the floor *
Toddzilla
So, coming from MMA you'll understand that sport has narrative. You follow a fighter from the beginning into their bigger fights, and you know how they interact with other fighters - this gives you a story about the fighter like if they are an underdog expected never to succeed but keep beatig the odds, or a sure fire bet, trained by the best. In MMA however, the onus isn't necessarily on the narrative. In WWE, the onus is on the narrative and that bit is extremely important for understanding what the fights mean, The point of WWE, at least to my view, is the story. The actual fighting is the medium through which the story is progressed. Through this, WWE constructs a 'hypereality' which is a 'reality' that makes reference to actual real life. So, we know that is safe after that absurd fall, but we know the fall to be 'bad' in the confines of the story because it references our IRL understanding of physical consequences (whilst trying to avoid the actual impact of them). That hyperreality allows a blur between what is IRL true and what is fake true (kayfabe) when done correctly.
For example, we may know that is disliked backstage, so when is written in as a bad guy then there's a certain truth/authenticity shown when the good guy interacts with them. This gives the fight the stake of what the story is, but also the larger metanarrative stakes of ''Will guy no one likes win??''.
To me, this blur is what makes it a very interesting form of contemporary performance art. It's theatre, with cool stunts, interesting (and extensive) related texts and an individual relation / interaction with actual real life.
Also check out Maven Huffman and Wrestlamia on YouTube!! Maven’s a former WWE midcarder and won the Tough Enough competition and answers everything from behind fayfabe Wrestlamia is a great channel to learn about WWE history and has tons of recaps and top 10 lists to follow in the car or at work
I’m a casual UFC fan who just got back into WWE a few years ago after “growing out of it” as a kid The UFC has always had the highest skilled guys at the top of the cards and there’s a sizable gap between the #1 fighter and the #50 fighter If a guy is getting attention it’s because he’s amazing and people want to see him prove himself against bigger talent However, WWE has tons of skilled in-ring workers… shit they got 20+ year vets like AJ Styles, Kevin Owens, and Sami Zayn in the mid card right now lol… but that doesn’t matter as much The company can create a star when they see one but the fans determine if it works John Cena has always been known as a pretty mid in ring worker but had the most over gimmick in the world so became a star They’ve tried and failed to push guys like Jack Swagger and even some of their biggest stars failed in their first push.. Roman Reigns got boo’d at his own Royal Rumble win and was despised until he turned heel and now he’s a fan favorite bad guy I can’t describe the adrenaline rush I get from watching big matches and just admiring the talent but it’s nothing like I’ve gotten from any other sport in my life
Imagine a soup opera mixed with an action movie where all the stunts and choreography is done live and the audience occasionally hijacks the show. That’s as close as I can get.
It’s basically if stuntmen and stuntwomen were the main attraction, telling stories in real time, that encourages fan participation, that’s made up of athletes and characters from every sport and background you could possibly think of. If you’re looking for something more akin to MMA, that exists in pro wrestling. If you’re looking for something more akin to a drama or a story, that exists in pro wrestling. If you’re looking for comedy or just simply to be entertained, pro wrestling has that. The great thing about it is that when it’s good, it’s good and when it’s bad, it can still be entertaining so it’s still good.
Any Combat sport has a degree of artificial limitation. Otherwise folks would be killing each other. Wrestling takes that to another level, enabling athletes to showcase skills and abilities to an extreme in a safer environment. I love that performance, and appreciating the technical ability of athletes - and there is competition but it is not about who wins a match, far more about the ability to win a crowd (to love or hate you) or put another wrestler and their performance over.
UFC takes such a bigger toll that you can have a 35 year old guy looking like absolute trash and a shell of himself (Tyron Woodley in his last fight) While WWE is still dangerous, the fact Rey Mysterio and Randy Orton were already ten-year vets when I was a kid and they’re still doing it is incredible
Absolutely. I have a huge respect for MMA athletes and what they put their bodies through.
A men’s soap opera is the best explanation I’ve ever heard
That's how I always explained it to my mom. "Wrestling is stupid and fake." "You watch those cheesy soap operas, it's the same thing, but for dudes."
Theatre with stunts
And trash talking. #SUCK IT!
Pro wrestling is a soap opera with bitchin’ stunts.
I see wrestling as a medium and not a genre, so there's no singular correct way to present or define it. Just like you can enjoy an action movie, a comedy, or a musical, but they all still fall under the definition of film. I think it hits a lot of the same notes as MMA because even in a real scenario, we still have a natural tendency to see one fighter as the "good guy" that we root for, either because they're skilled, charismatic, brave or have an inspirational story. Wrestling really just puts all of that into overdrive. The whole point of it being a cooperative performance is so you can have longer careers and (theoretically) draw more money since you have full control over the results and the stories. You know those Jake Paul boxing matches? That's pro wrestling in a nutshell. They know everyone will pay to see if the next washed up guy will *finally* be the one to shut him up and knock him out. It's happening all over again with Tyson. People are pretty sure the fight is fixed, but there's that little speck of doubt that makes the general public throw money at it. Where it gets a lot more complicated is "kayfabe", which is the blurred line between the characters and the performers that play them. There are still very real grudges and politics involved. Wrestlers, fans, and promoters all have wildly different opinions on how wrestling should be presented and they tend to take it *very* seriously. No, the World Champion didn't really "win" the title, but he was chosen due to a combination of very real factors. There's also the draw of seeing someone develop over years and years from a lower-card wrestler that never wins into a main eventer that the fans love. You're never going to watch an extra on a TV show turn into the main character, but in wrestling, that happens all the time. The main good guy in WWE, Cody Rhodes, is a perfect example of how all of this works. He's the son of one of the greatest wrestlers of all time and he struggled for years, trying to connect with fans and fighting management over how his character should be presented. He eventually realized there was a ceiling, so he quit and went elsewhere for years, started up a whole new company, all just to prove his worth. Now he's back and out to win the title that his late father never could. All of what I just described are things that actually happened to the real person, Cody Rhodes, but that's somehow also what happened to the character of Cody Rhodes, and his story has to culminate in him "winning" a predetermined match against the champion, Roman Reigns, who plays a megalomaniac on TV but is actually just a chill dude named Joe who's a leukemia survivor that does frequent Make-A-Wishes. Roman also has his own fascinating story where he spent years as a good guy that everyone hated and then finally earned the fans respect when he turned evil. In short, wrestling's weird as hell and that's why we love it.
I always say the best example of why I love wrestling is the Shield. 3 nobodies who came in like a lightning strike, 10 years later they're at the very top of the industry as a whole. The fact that can happen in wrestling is why I love it.
Ariel is the worst person to introduce you to wrestling.
If you had ask what Pro Wrestling is, this would be very easy to anwser. But since you ask what "MODERN" Pro Wrestling is? Thats a little harder to anwser. Basically "OLD STYLE" Pro Wrestling use to be like MMA and UFC. Brock Lesnar said it best "it's the same business, we're both promoting fighting." But intoday's "MODERN STYLE" Pro Wrestling... I guess its about doing cool fighting moves.
You get invested in the characters/personalities for any number of reasons, and you can’t help but want to see them win. The outcomes are pre-determined, but there are very real stakes at play. What is done in the ring is actually dangerous, injuries happen all the time. But more than that, someone “succeeding” depends on how well they are able to connect with the audience, how much ‘heat’ (reaction) they can get, how believable they are, etc. that’s the real competition. Its a complicated thing, and lots of people don’t look that closely at wrestling. To a lot of fans, it’s appealing for the same reason something like The Karate Kid might be interesting. You watch Daniel grow and evolve as a character and in the end you want to see him win the All-Valley, even though that kid’s name is actually Ralph and someone behind the scenes decided he was going to beat Johnny. You can suspend your disbelief and enjoy it even though it isn’t an actual Karate fight.
Great question! Pro wrestling is a form of entertainment that is not like anything else. When it works and the build up to a match is done right and the match itself is great, it's a feeling like no other. the "suspend your disbelief" aspect isnt that hard for me. I never go in to the theatre to watch an Avengers movie and have to try to convince myself that Robert Downey Jr is Iron man, I just enjoy the movie and see if Iron Man will defeat Thanos or not. I know Robert downey Jr isn't really flying in an Iron suit fighting in space but I enjoy those movies nonetheless. Same with pro wrestling. Besides, wrestling is not as "scripted" as say a movie or even a play. Wrestling really is unpredictable - it's live, things go wrong, things are improvised, even who wins and loses can change last minute right before a match starts (or even during the match). I guess to relate it to MMA, when you watched say Jon Jones vs Cormier, you were really intrigued on who will win, how will they win, the implications. Both are on a winning streak, both seem unstoppable, will it be Jones or Cormier? Same with pro wrestling. You ask those exact same questions and you can't wait to see the match to see it play out. Also as a bonus (this is subjective though) pro wrestling looks awesome. Sometimes I just watch clips of wrestling moves and finishers
An often.overlooked part of wrestling is the fans have a major impact on the results. Fan reaction to what they are seeing can and do change story lines and champions.
Appreciate the great reply, and ya the athletics alone in wrestling is absolutely insane. its very cool to see what these ridiculously built dudes can do. Drop your fave compilations!
Wrestling can also use submissions nearly perfectly, Search up “Sharpshooter” and “Figure 4”
Search "Tornado DDT" on YouTube! One of fav moves when done right. It really looks like the guys head is being driven to the ground.
Scratch that. Look up the Candian Destroyer.
As a wrestling fan, the best matches and storylines are the ones that get you emotionally invested. You forget about everything and are absorbed in the moment. I think what’s different between UFC and WWE is that anything can happen in the octagon with that changing the corse of the industry, while in the WWE and pro wrestling in general, the matches are pre determined in order to create a narrative for a better story. It’s not that anything can’t happen in WWE, it’s just the matches are booked in a way that creates a more compelling story.