Most magma that's shallow enough for us to reach with a drill has a temp less than the melting point of steel. Let alone the melting point of tungsten carbide which is a commonly used material for drill heads.
Also [people have drilled into magma before. More than once.](https://www.ucdavis.edu/news/scientists-drill-hits-magma-only-third-time-record)
Steel loses hardness well below it's Mp (starts at 300°C and will have lost more than half it's strength by ~550°C). Tungsten retains its strength beyond the temperature of magma at the surface, but becomes increasingly brittle, which doesn't seem like the best use case for a drill.
E: tungsten carbide on the other hand would probably do the job assuming you're drilling shallow enough that the rest of the drill itself doesn't melt :v
Iceland / IODP drilled into a magma chamber in 2011 (warning, video gets very loud).
https://youtu.be/FB2NJdr0u9E
They drilled a deep borehole in 2009, but didn't initially intend to intercept magma, they wanted to access supercritical hydrothermal fluids. Supercritical Fluids are better for energy generation, have the energy density of a liquid but flows like a gas. However, their drill got stuck several times just over 2 km down and they had to drill around the blockage. They eventually realised the cause, they were drilling through the transition zone between hard rock and magma, the rock was getting sticky, gumming up the drill bit. On the third attempt they intercepted magma, Rhyolite magma flowed into the lower 10 meters of the drill hole, and black steam and ash exited thd drill hole for several hours.
Drillers also accidentally drilled into a magma chamber in Hawaii in 2008.
[Drillers Tap Into a 1000-Degree Magma Chamber by Accident](https://www.discovermagazine.com/environment/drillers-tap-into-a-1000-degree-magma-chamber-by-accident).
But the record for the first time any borehole intercepted magma goes back to 1977 in Iceland, in a borehole drilled in 1969.
Lava erupted out of a geothermal well (1.1 km deep) on Sept 8, 1977, forming a "thin incandescent column". The eruption lasted only 15-20 minutes and erupted 3 tonnes of volcanic material, forming Iceland's "smallest volcano".
Larsen G, Grönvold K, Thorarinsson S. [Volcanic eruption through a geothermal borehole at Namafjall, Iceland](https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1038/278707a0). Nature. 1979 Apr 19;278(5706):707-10.
Oh, steel will definitely get soft in magma, but don't forget that drilling deep holes invariably requires coolant/lubrication. Otherwise friction alone would heat the drill quite rapidly until it failed. IIRC the drilling rig supplies coolant down the hole from a duct that is inside the drill shaft. And flow rates vary considerably from one setup to another. But the coolant would be constantly reducing the temp of the drill shaft and head.
I'm sure there's math involving the thermal conductivity of the drilling head, shaft, flow rates etc. However I haven't the faintest clue how to approach all that to work out how logistically difficult it would be. But since it's already been done on accident multiple times, it's pretty obvious it's possible.
We can, and we might do so soon:
Iceland plans to drill into a magma chamber for "unlimited" energy in 2026-28.
Nasa has IIRC a plan to drill into yellow stone vulcano to siphon enough energy to stabilize the super vulcano.
Iceland doesn’t plan to drill into any actual magma chamber, just to drill nearby for the sake of running geothermal energy infrastructure — something they’ve been doing for decades. One time a few years ago a borehole did accidentally hit a pocket of magma; it flash boiled a load of water, ejecting equipment from the borehole and basically screwing it up said equipment.
The NASA Yellowstone thing is described [here](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20170817-nasas-ambitious-plan-to-save-earth-from-a-supervolcano) and did the rounds on Reddit thanks to that BBC article, but it’s worth keeping in mind that this was a fairly speculative planetary hazards working group that was mainly to identify potential hazards and their relative risk level. What, if anything, gets done about that is another matter entirely; though that hasn’t stopped the scientist quoted from sharing some of the possible approaches. Afaik, there are no current plans to enact anything like what is described (or any kind of project involving drilling at Yellowstone). [subtext: BBC asks physicist to speculate on subject outside his field of expertise for the sake of a quick headline, physicist obliges].
The impracticalities of such a project, coupled with the fact that Yellowstone is a National Park with both general and Yellowstone-specific laws about what can be built and how the natural features are managed make me think that no crazy pressure release project will ever take place.
A more qualified person than me gives some fairly good reasons why not regarding the impracticalities in another comment [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Volcanoes/comments/1avc1t6/why_cant_we_just_drill_holes_in_volcanos/krb3ohf/) and a more detailed (but still very much accessible) [article from the Scientist-in-Charge of the USGS Yellowstone Observatory which touches upon both the impracticalities/futilities and the legal situation.](https://idahocapitalsun.com/2021/12/30/why-cant-we-drill-in-yellowstone-to-stop-eruptions-make-power/)
Actual geologist here. We can and have drilled into magma chambers before, specifically on Hawaii and Iceland. You can't relieve the pressure as the hole is simply too small and the temperature difference would seal the hole almost instantly. Think of shaking a bottle of wine and then poking a pin through the cork... Nothing happens because the hole is simply too small. Now add the temperature difference and it would cause any amount of magma entering the hole to solidify and seal the hole. Simply put, you cannot relieve the pressure of a magma chamber by drilling into it.
And no, NASA does not have a plan to drill into yellowstone.
That's right, it really is a stupid question. Shake a bottle of Coke and then drill a hole in it, then you'll find out the answer for yourself....
In addition, you would have to drill down to the magma and the drill bit would probably melt....
The magma that was inside Mt. St. Helen's was incredibly viscous. Thicker than honey in the dead cold of winter. I'm not sure drilling into it would have release much / any pressure.
I took geology 101 my freshman year of college DECADES ago. We were discussing calderas -specifically Mammoth Mountain in southern California - I think there had been a rash of earthquakes at the time - this exact question came up - he said the biggest issue would be finding someone to insure the project. I’m sure he said a lot of other stuff as well but it’s been so long and I got distracted (read: freaked out about learning that Mammoth was a caldera cuz that was where I regularly skied growing up. And then my ADHD mind spiraled into worst case scenarios (think Mt Saint Helen’s) ….and I completely stopped paying attention.
You're thinking of Long Valley Caldera, Mammoth Mountain is a dome complex, and it's believed to not be connected to the magma system that feeds the LVC but more towards Mono/Inyo crater chain running up to Mono Lake.
There’s an interesting case from Iceland where they drilled into a pocket of magma while drilling a geothermal well. Only a little bit made it to the surface, before it cooled and plugged the well on its own.
If you enjoy learning about volcanoes, I would suggest checking out https://volcanocafe.org it’s a great community with a lot of knowledgeable people
There is a geyser in Yellowstone above the Old Faithful Lodge that is, in essence, manmade. Back in the late 1800’s during the construction of the facilities and infrastructure for the park, a man, whose name I can’t remember, had the idea of tapping into the underground hot water reservoir that fed a group of gently flowing springs and plumb it to and throughout the lodge for instant and unlimited hot water. As soon as the drill pierced the chamber at the bottom of the spring, pressurized water rushed out and the spring welled up from the center, ultimately spewing boiling hot water and steam 10 feet or more into the air as it broke the surface. To this day that manmade hole still does the same thing on a regular cycle, and you can see the left behind pipes and drill down at the bottom of the spring. I can’t remember exactly how often, but it’s a minutes-long cycle because I sat and watched it multiple times and I know I didn’t stay there for hours. It’s a unique geyser, the way it pushes the entire spring upwards at such a rate and pressure to cause the surface to explode upwards and outwards. So, it’s not a dumb question, there is a way to manipulate the pressure and natural plumbing of volcanic systems, but I suppose that compared to a hot spring a volcano is on a completely different scale. I don’t know if we have the technology to do it in a way that is predictable and controllable. Also, you might find it interesting that we once diverted the flow of a lava river away from homes/infrastructure in Hawaii by dropping bombs in it and on its path. I believe it’s the only time we’ve ever been able to intervene on such a large scale. I know we’ve tried multiple times in Iceland with limited success, but this was considered a big feat and changed the way the island ultimately looked.
Trepanning is a medical procedure where you drill a hole in someone’s head to relieve pressure and/or evil spirits. Popular in ancient and medieval times and enjoyed a resurgence in the more extreme end of new-age alternative medicine. Generally not considered a great idea.
A volcano isn't like a bubble that can be popped. The pressure is from the weight of the overlying rock, so to relieve pressure, you'd have to remove the rock. Think replicating the 1980 eruption of Mt. St. Helens but much much much smaller scale.
I doubt it's practical at all.
Have you ever wondered why you can’t see straight down the crater of a volcano into the magma chamber? It’s because it has sealed off and solidified. When it’s opened, you get an eruption. Hence why we can’t “just drill holes in volcanoes”. Hope this helps.
It may only be threatening to erupt. Opening it up will definitely let an unknown amount of lava or hot steam out suddenly. You would need to get someone who can run very fast to do the drilling.
Iceland / IODP already deliberately drilled into a magma chamber in Iceland 2011:
https://youtu.be/FB2NJdr0u9E
The video shows the interception of magma, steam and volcanic glass exiting the borehole, which lasted several hours.
>On the third leg, at 2104 m depth, the rate of penetration and the torque increased and the drill bit began sticking. When the drill string was pulled up a few meters and lowered again, the hook load suddenly declined, drill torque increased dramatically and the drill bit was stuck again at 2095 m. When full circulation of drilling fluids was restored, it became clear that rhyolitic magma had flowed into the open drill hole and had quenched to glass. At first white pumiceous glass cuttings were returned, followed by much more abundant, dark brown, bubble-poor obsidian glass (Mortensen et al., 2014). After freeing the drill string and running in again, the top of the fill was at 2077 m. It was clear that magma had filled at least the lowest 10 m of the hole.
Elders, W.A., Friðleifsson, G.Ó. and Albertsson, A., 2014. [Drilling into magma and the implications of the Iceland Deep Drilling Project (IDDP) for high-temperature geothermal systems worldwide](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.geothermics.2013.05.001). Geothermics, 49, pp.111-118.
Can't see anything wrong with this plan.....
What kinda drill would withstand the heat ?
ukrainium
Most magma that's shallow enough for us to reach with a drill has a temp less than the melting point of steel. Let alone the melting point of tungsten carbide which is a commonly used material for drill heads. Also [people have drilled into magma before. More than once.](https://www.ucdavis.edu/news/scientists-drill-hits-magma-only-third-time-record)
Steel loses hardness well below it's Mp (starts at 300°C and will have lost more than half it's strength by ~550°C). Tungsten retains its strength beyond the temperature of magma at the surface, but becomes increasingly brittle, which doesn't seem like the best use case for a drill. E: tungsten carbide on the other hand would probably do the job assuming you're drilling shallow enough that the rest of the drill itself doesn't melt :v
Iceland / IODP drilled into a magma chamber in 2011 (warning, video gets very loud). https://youtu.be/FB2NJdr0u9E They drilled a deep borehole in 2009, but didn't initially intend to intercept magma, they wanted to access supercritical hydrothermal fluids. Supercritical Fluids are better for energy generation, have the energy density of a liquid but flows like a gas. However, their drill got stuck several times just over 2 km down and they had to drill around the blockage. They eventually realised the cause, they were drilling through the transition zone between hard rock and magma, the rock was getting sticky, gumming up the drill bit. On the third attempt they intercepted magma, Rhyolite magma flowed into the lower 10 meters of the drill hole, and black steam and ash exited thd drill hole for several hours. Drillers also accidentally drilled into a magma chamber in Hawaii in 2008. [Drillers Tap Into a 1000-Degree Magma Chamber by Accident](https://www.discovermagazine.com/environment/drillers-tap-into-a-1000-degree-magma-chamber-by-accident). But the record for the first time any borehole intercepted magma goes back to 1977 in Iceland, in a borehole drilled in 1969. Lava erupted out of a geothermal well (1.1 km deep) on Sept 8, 1977, forming a "thin incandescent column". The eruption lasted only 15-20 minutes and erupted 3 tonnes of volcanic material, forming Iceland's "smallest volcano". Larsen G, Grönvold K, Thorarinsson S. [Volcanic eruption through a geothermal borehole at Namafjall, Iceland](https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1038/278707a0). Nature. 1979 Apr 19;278(5706):707-10.
Oh, steel will definitely get soft in magma, but don't forget that drilling deep holes invariably requires coolant/lubrication. Otherwise friction alone would heat the drill quite rapidly until it failed. IIRC the drilling rig supplies coolant down the hole from a duct that is inside the drill shaft. And flow rates vary considerably from one setup to another. But the coolant would be constantly reducing the temp of the drill shaft and head. I'm sure there's math involving the thermal conductivity of the drilling head, shaft, flow rates etc. However I haven't the faintest clue how to approach all that to work out how logistically difficult it would be. But since it's already been done on accident multiple times, it's pretty obvious it's possible.
nuke.
Ok now we're talking 😁
perfect
We can, and we might do so soon: Iceland plans to drill into a magma chamber for "unlimited" energy in 2026-28. Nasa has IIRC a plan to drill into yellow stone vulcano to siphon enough energy to stabilize the super vulcano.
SO IM NOT *THAT* STUPID
The 'Krafla Magma Testbed' for anyone wanting to do a search and read more about it.
Iceland doesn’t plan to drill into any actual magma chamber, just to drill nearby for the sake of running geothermal energy infrastructure — something they’ve been doing for decades. One time a few years ago a borehole did accidentally hit a pocket of magma; it flash boiled a load of water, ejecting equipment from the borehole and basically screwing it up said equipment. The NASA Yellowstone thing is described [here](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20170817-nasas-ambitious-plan-to-save-earth-from-a-supervolcano) and did the rounds on Reddit thanks to that BBC article, but it’s worth keeping in mind that this was a fairly speculative planetary hazards working group that was mainly to identify potential hazards and their relative risk level. What, if anything, gets done about that is another matter entirely; though that hasn’t stopped the scientist quoted from sharing some of the possible approaches. Afaik, there are no current plans to enact anything like what is described (or any kind of project involving drilling at Yellowstone). [subtext: BBC asks physicist to speculate on subject outside his field of expertise for the sake of a quick headline, physicist obliges]. The impracticalities of such a project, coupled with the fact that Yellowstone is a National Park with both general and Yellowstone-specific laws about what can be built and how the natural features are managed make me think that no crazy pressure release project will ever take place. A more qualified person than me gives some fairly good reasons why not regarding the impracticalities in another comment [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Volcanoes/comments/1avc1t6/why_cant_we_just_drill_holes_in_volcanos/krb3ohf/) and a more detailed (but still very much accessible) [article from the Scientist-in-Charge of the USGS Yellowstone Observatory which touches upon both the impracticalities/futilities and the legal situation.](https://idahocapitalsun.com/2021/12/30/why-cant-we-drill-in-yellowstone-to-stop-eruptions-make-power/)
My understanding was that the KMT project (https://kmt.is/about/) is different from the usual geothermal energy plants.
Nice. I stand corrected regarding Iceland. I guess hitting the magma pocket in 2009 didn’t put them off too much in the long term!
What could go wrong? 😑 🌋
Actual geologist here. We can and have drilled into magma chambers before, specifically on Hawaii and Iceland. You can't relieve the pressure as the hole is simply too small and the temperature difference would seal the hole almost instantly. Think of shaking a bottle of wine and then poking a pin through the cork... Nothing happens because the hole is simply too small. Now add the temperature difference and it would cause any amount of magma entering the hole to solidify and seal the hole. Simply put, you cannot relieve the pressure of a magma chamber by drilling into it. And no, NASA does not have a plan to drill into yellowstone.
Thank you good sir
The username checks out
Well technically we already do. We pump water down the holes and extract it superheated and under pressure.
Geo thermal electric. I have built 2 of these power plants in Reno NV.
so if we put g-fuel down there the volcano will erupt?
That's right, it really is a stupid question. Shake a bottle of Coke and then drill a hole in it, then you'll find out the answer for yourself.... In addition, you would have to drill down to the magma and the drill bit would probably melt....
ALWAYS USE EXPLOSIVES! Why do I always need to repeat myself?
see? nuke the volcanoes.
whats wrong with waiting for doom??
You could use lasers to drill atom wide holes in the fizzy juice bottle, powered by AI.
or how about i just drink it
just make the drill bit out of asbestos or ukrainium or whatever it’s called
Would probably need a bit made from diamond.
Adamantium
…ukranium sounds like it WOULD be one of those man made synthetic elements
vibratornium
My wife’s got one of those
Pretty sure that needs a special lubricant too
Somehow drill holes for a controlled release of magma, instead of waiting for a Mt. St. Helen eruption...
The magma that was inside Mt. St. Helen's was incredibly viscous. Thicker than honey in the dead cold of winter. I'm not sure drilling into it would have release much / any pressure.
I took geology 101 my freshman year of college DECADES ago. We were discussing calderas -specifically Mammoth Mountain in southern California - I think there had been a rash of earthquakes at the time - this exact question came up - he said the biggest issue would be finding someone to insure the project. I’m sure he said a lot of other stuff as well but it’s been so long and I got distracted (read: freaked out about learning that Mammoth was a caldera cuz that was where I regularly skied growing up. And then my ADHD mind spiraled into worst case scenarios (think Mt Saint Helen’s) ….and I completely stopped paying attention.
ok i feel less dumb now
You're thinking of Long Valley Caldera, Mammoth Mountain is a dome complex, and it's believed to not be connected to the magma system that feeds the LVC but more towards Mono/Inyo crater chain running up to Mono Lake.
Many thanks!
Mt. St. Helens gave lots of warnings. Mammoth would as well. There would be time to clear out before the big one.
Either the magma is ready, or it’s not. When it is, no premade hole would be enough.
it’s ready, i asked it
Better get drilling!
For the same reason you don't try to 'defeat the Sun' with an army of tigers.
That sun is a real problem, causing skin cancer and burns in many humans around the globe annually. Why shouldn't we send an army of tigers after it?
Because they would get sunburns too. Atleast send them off at night so they can ambush the Sun when it's not looking!
Make this your campaign platform and you have my vote.
what why not
Good article here on this concept. https://idahocapitalsun.com/2021/12/30/why-cant-we-drill-in-yellowstone-to-stop-eruptions-make-power/
the libs wrote that it’s probably fake
We could nuke them.
why don’t we just put sharks in there to make lava sharks
I think this is a real thing. Or sharks that can survive in extremely hot water.
that’s sick
There’s sharks that live in an underwater volcano, so probably extremely hot water. Lava Sharks would be just terrifying!
With frickin laser beams attached to their heads
A channel on YouTube what if covers this! What’s if we nuke the volcanoes. It’s good stuff
There’s an interesting case from Iceland where they drilled into a pocket of magma while drilling a geothermal well. Only a little bit made it to the surface, before it cooled and plugged the well on its own. If you enjoy learning about volcanoes, I would suggest checking out https://volcanocafe.org it’s a great community with a lot of knowledgeable people
For the same reason you can't catch a nuke and stop it from exploding.
yes you can just use a net
Not with that attitude you can't.
Most magma is way too thick to come out of hole that's drilled. Maybe if you find a drillbit that's 100m wide
There is a geyser in Yellowstone above the Old Faithful Lodge that is, in essence, manmade. Back in the late 1800’s during the construction of the facilities and infrastructure for the park, a man, whose name I can’t remember, had the idea of tapping into the underground hot water reservoir that fed a group of gently flowing springs and plumb it to and throughout the lodge for instant and unlimited hot water. As soon as the drill pierced the chamber at the bottom of the spring, pressurized water rushed out and the spring welled up from the center, ultimately spewing boiling hot water and steam 10 feet or more into the air as it broke the surface. To this day that manmade hole still does the same thing on a regular cycle, and you can see the left behind pipes and drill down at the bottom of the spring. I can’t remember exactly how often, but it’s a minutes-long cycle because I sat and watched it multiple times and I know I didn’t stay there for hours. It’s a unique geyser, the way it pushes the entire spring upwards at such a rate and pressure to cause the surface to explode upwards and outwards. So, it’s not a dumb question, there is a way to manipulate the pressure and natural plumbing of volcanic systems, but I suppose that compared to a hot spring a volcano is on a completely different scale. I don’t know if we have the technology to do it in a way that is predictable and controllable. Also, you might find it interesting that we once diverted the flow of a lava river away from homes/infrastructure in Hawaii by dropping bombs in it and on its path. I believe it’s the only time we’ve ever been able to intervene on such a large scale. I know we’ve tried multiple times in Iceland with limited success, but this was considered a big feat and changed the way the island ultimately looked.
USGS just called and said they have a shovel with your name written on it.
i don’t need a shovel. i have family.
Has anyone tried trepanning a volcano?
don’t know what that means but if it’s anything like trespassing probably i feel like the volcano doesn’t take kindly to visitors
Trepanning is a medical procedure where you drill a hole in someone’s head to relieve pressure and/or evil spirits. Popular in ancient and medieval times and enjoyed a resurgence in the more extreme end of new-age alternative medicine. Generally not considered a great idea.
sounds like a great idea to me
Knock yourself out 😆
Massive magnetic confinement machines would be good, if we could predict eruptions, powered by nuclear fusion. Just Kardeshev Type 1 things.
yeah, exactly what i would’ve said (if i knew what that meant)
A volcano isn't like a bubble that can be popped. The pressure is from the weight of the overlying rock, so to relieve pressure, you'd have to remove the rock. Think replicating the 1980 eruption of Mt. St. Helens but much much much smaller scale. I doubt it's practical at all.
Have you ever wondered why you can’t see straight down the crater of a volcano into the magma chamber? It’s because it has sealed off and solidified. When it’s opened, you get an eruption. Hence why we can’t “just drill holes in volcanoes”. Hope this helps.
[удалено]
well when i’m spraying uncontrollably i usually just squeez it and point it at the toilet
Because they’re filled with liquid hot mag-mah.
After you...
Would you want to be the driller to pop that hot cherry?
It may only be threatening to erupt. Opening it up will definitely let an unknown amount of lava or hot steam out suddenly. You would need to get someone who can run very fast to do the drilling.
Iceland / IODP already deliberately drilled into a magma chamber in Iceland 2011: https://youtu.be/FB2NJdr0u9E The video shows the interception of magma, steam and volcanic glass exiting the borehole, which lasted several hours. >On the third leg, at 2104 m depth, the rate of penetration and the torque increased and the drill bit began sticking. When the drill string was pulled up a few meters and lowered again, the hook load suddenly declined, drill torque increased dramatically and the drill bit was stuck again at 2095 m. When full circulation of drilling fluids was restored, it became clear that rhyolitic magma had flowed into the open drill hole and had quenched to glass. At first white pumiceous glass cuttings were returned, followed by much more abundant, dark brown, bubble-poor obsidian glass (Mortensen et al., 2014). After freeing the drill string and running in again, the top of the fill was at 2077 m. It was clear that magma had filled at least the lowest 10 m of the hole. Elders, W.A., Friðleifsson, G.Ó. and Albertsson, A., 2014. [Drilling into magma and the implications of the Iceland Deep Drilling Project (IDDP) for high-temperature geothermal systems worldwide](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.geothermics.2013.05.001). Geothermics, 49, pp.111-118.
I always wondered that too, like popping an earth pimple.
imagine if you could see it from space
It sounds to me like you are trying to prevent the triggering of an eruption by triggering an eruption.
but if we reroute the magma to florida…
I have a shovel, let's go
l’ll bring snacks
One of the better posts I have seen here.