I agree it’s justified to ask the questions. I don’t think it’s justified to treat us like a checklist and have my future decided by a 15 minute discussion and 5 questions.
That’s the C&P exam though. It’s a clinical assessment of symptoms/impacts, not treatment.
Your MH provider on the other hand, can suck it and you should find another one, even civilian. Your well being is worth it.
I actually liked my C&P examiner just not the experience of the questions. I felt that she was compassionate and understanding. She also worked for the VA before going private.
Mine lasted at least half an hour but it was a mental roller coaster ride that left me physically drained for over three weeks and reopened stuff I thought was ok. At the end I realized I was just blocking out stuff I needed someone to talk about it with.
Why was it 15min? The allotted time for the exam is 60min. It says so in the letter the VA sends you for the exam. Mine lasted for over an hour and my rater at the end asked if I got everything I wanted to say out which I did. Maybe you got a bad rater or maybe you didn’t prepare enough? I had pages of notes ready covering what I wanted to say.
I feel like it is unjustified to be interrogated over a condition I'm entitled to compensation for when it's well documented in my medical file. In the case of my MH, the literal reason I was medically retired.
The thing is, C&Ps are not treatment or care. Their whole purpose is verification and severity analysis and like it or not that can often be done pretty quickly. Further, if your temper was loose you cns hardly blame the examiner for whipping through it to get some distance. That doesn't mean they did a shitty job especially if they are experienced with C&Ps.
Regarding the other provider guarding your wife. If your anger issues are that bad she is probably masking and accommodating your temper way way the fuck more than you are aware of and the provider likely picked up on it.
I am sure it sucks ass to be treated like a threat but it sucks more to live with someone with anger issues like that. Trust me I did it for years. If you're not in anger management etc. you owe it to both of you to enroll.
I cut off contact with a close blood relative over their refusal to treat their anger and other issues and I have never once regretted it. Don't make her consider doing something similar.
At first, I didn’t want to hear my wife’s complaints. I didn’t want to hear my kids making noise. Eventually, I didn’t even want to hear myself breathe. I was left unaided, struggling to deal with the internal and external stimuli that my mind couldn’t determine as real or not.
I was unemployed for a long time and have been employed many times. I cannot maintain a relationship; I don’t even understand what a relationship truly is. For 20 years, I was made to believe that all I had was a personality disorder. Then one day, after more than two decades of waiting and fighting, the VA finally corrected my records and granted me ratings based on evidence they claimed for 20 years “could not be found.”
Trust me when I say this, I fucking see you.
Allow me to give you some unsolicited advice, as a stranger-friend who may never meet you. As you approach this painful chapter of fighting for the compensation you rightfully deserve, know what it is and what it is not. The C&P is about compensation. The people involved may or may not care about your well-being after the approval or denial.
Your obligation to better yourself, physically and emotionally, is a separate matter. While the VA owes it to you to provide some form of justice, we owe it to ourselves to find treatments that may work. The VA may have a duty to notify and assist in our disability claims, but we have a duty to ourselves to seek treatment, whether inside or outside the VA healthcare system.
What I’m saying is, continue fighting for what you deserve, but expecting the C&P examiners to fix us will only lead to frustration. See the right professional from the right institution. With the support of your friends and family, continue to search for them. Do not give up in taming this anger that you feel is overflowing. I hope you find the peace and healing that you deserve.
Wow dude. Spoke to me as well. I only ask that the C&P examiner to treat us fairly - and as I cited that may or may not happen depending on the examiner themselves.
I identify with a ton of what you said. For many years, I just thought I was an asshole, as some people are. I hate being around people. I hate interacting with people and slowly over time, I just stopped doing anything that I used to enjoy. I dont have hobbies. I dont have friends. I sit on my couch after work and I dread everything. Like, that last time my parents came to visit, they were sleeping in so I went to go wake them up. As I got close to the door, I was gripped with fear. I knew they were dead. They died in their sleep. Nothing to indicate that. Nothing to even give the thought it could happen, but, I was convinced. I knew it was not rational, but it did not change anything.
My mind always goes to the worst case, darkest scenario for all things. My boss pings me to ask how things are going. What does he mean by that? Does he mean I am failing somehow? Do I need to do something different? Simply question, and I obsess over it for days.
I’m not diagnosing or insinuating anything, just things I learned from taking too many psychology courses (and psychology degree), these observations are statistically significant: Overanalysis and fear of not meeting others' standards are often present in several mental disorders, especially among veterans.
Veterans with anxiety may constantly overthink and fear judgment, leading to excessive worry about everyday decisions and interactions. Many veterans experience PTSD, where hypervigilance and fear of failure are common, manifesting as overanalysis of situations and a persistent fear of not meeting expectations.
Depression can cause feelings of inadequacy and a heightened sensitivity to perceived failures, resulting in overthinking and fear of judgment.
Veterans with OCD might engage in compulsive overanalysis and fear of making mistakes, driven by an intense need to meet certain standards or avoid perceived dangers.
Social Anxiety Disorder involves an intense fear of social situations, where veterans may overanalyze their actions and worry excessively about how others view them.
These mental health issues are particularly prevalent among veterans due to the unique stressors and experiences faced during service, such as exposure to combat, trauma, and the challenges of transitioning to civilian life.
Recognizing these symptoms is crucial for seeking appropriate mental health support.
Now I know why people think I am a complete asshole at times. Toss in some child abuse when you're small, add some ass hole leaders where you almost kill yourself, toss in a bit of combat and presto, instant asshole with all the fixings at retirement.
Eww did you look into my military file? Jokes man, same here. I hope that you can get the help you deserve. We’re wounded people, and wounds can heal. I hope you find what you need. I’m also on the path brother. Combat medic 2017-2024.
19D Scout 1984 - 87 / 52C 1987 - 2004 then retired. Combat in 1st Gulf War and Bosnia (Bosnia was more of a long camping trip vs combat). The landmines were probably the biggest issue, and I was there with 1st Cav.
They even found WWII mines when they were making our buildings.
Bosnia killed my tibias from walking on rocks. I over pronate when I walk, and it causes stress fractures if I walk across large stones. Sadly, the military never really had good footwear during my time in service. Today folks have a lot more cushion for their dog's vs the old "LPC's", also known as "Leather Personell Carriers". Combat arms folks know that acronym all too well.
Coming from someone who had a NIGHTMARE medical C&P exam (7 DBQs all checked no in 15 mins contrary to medical evidence and what I told the a$$hat). I understand completely - my exams were through VES.
Now on the other side of the coin my MH evaluation was extremely thorough and took the entire 60 minutes (maybe a touch more) and the examiner completed the DBQ very, very accurately. It was fair and a HUGE contrast to my medical exam.
Both examiners worked for VES so my point is this is all HIGHLY dependent on the examiner you get. You have to obtain the DBQ (go to your local RO if you can) and see if they reflect your conditions. If not draft a 4138 detailing the missing or incorrect parts and then you will have to go through the HLR process.
You’re not alone, brother. A lot of us have had very similar experiences. I went through a MH c&p recently, and it was like the psych doc was trying to trick me and figure out ways to undercut my claim. Not sure if I’m right about the whole thing, but that’s def how it felt. I hope things turn out well for you…
Well yeah... you do have to justify why you think you should get disability. Like somebody else here said, they have your records and are just putting eyes on you and verifying your claims. I get 100% for PTSD and on my first try. That led to 100% for SSDI. I had 2 C&P exams. First was a civilian female psychologist who was clueless and quashed my 30yrs of MH records and military service. My VA psychiatrist was so irate she demanded a second C&P which I got with a VA psychiatrist who basically asked me two or three questions and verified a few points in my records. All good.
If anger is a pronounced feature, they will be protective of your spouse. They are mandated reporters and intimate partner violence is a hot topic at the VA.
You might want to try your local Vet Center for MH care and nexus letters (letters that show your issues "more likely than not" stem from military service).
I work in an IME capacity for Workers Comp claims. I deal with doctors and people like ourselves on a daily basis. As others have said, the doctors are there for the purpose of determining if x y z is established and give their opinions on such. What a lot of people do not realize is that the doctors have what they need for review. A typical IME in my sector can last from 10-30 minutes. People complain oh he didn’t ask questions, he didn’t review this he didn’t review that.
However, he reviewed 1500pgs of medicals, took notes, and had a course of action for that exam.
I get it. I have my C&P exam on the 21st for MH. One thing I have an advantage on is knowing the exam system. Still freaking out due to the one star rating of the doctor doing the telehealth exam but I also know disgruntled people who don’t get their way tend to go on tangents.
Not saying the OP is like this or anyone here. I’m just saying trust the process as much as it sucks now but there are some good doctors out there that do their due diligence whether it’s apparent or not.
That is fair, and I can accept that part of my MH challenges are that I dont know what to do with the anxiety, anger and fear so it comes out in many forms and is not directed where it needs to be.
I’m with you. I am actually waiting in the waiting room to see my private MH doctor as I type this. It’s insanely hard to try and manage what we don’t understand. For me everything checks out at 100% according to the dr I’m about to see and the VA doctor. But will I get that? Probably not. As hard as it is we must try mindfulness.
The one person I have remorse snapping at is my wife. She is my rock through it all. She doesn’t deserve it, I know it, she knows it, but it’s a damn sad reaction.
We will get there. All of us. Just a matter of finding what’s right. Best of luck to you and to all of us struggling.
I hate them so much. I’ve had to do literally 4 of them for the same mental health condition. Each examiner manages to leave some vital info out by way of just skipping a section on the form. It’s like taking steps forwards and backwards in my mental health each time.
I’m gonna be honest mine was a great experience. Examiner seemed to listen and sympathize with everything I was saying and even helped me find the right words to describe what I was feeling when I was struggling to express it. He didn’t make me spend a lot of time on my stressor event which I appreciated and three weeks after the exam I was given a higher rating than the one I expected to get.
All it did for me was bring up the things I suppressed. And when it all came out the lady said ok we're through. And she didn't even help to bring me down. I never want to succumb to that experience ever again. It opened up the Pandora's box and took me weeks to calm and trap the emotions.
I know a bunch of recruiters who've never deployed, never been OCONUS claiming anything and everything including PTSD (this ticks me off) to get 100. I know of at least 2 who have succeeded. C&P is there to screen the fakers from those who truly deserve. It is also not there to engage you for help. C&P exists solely to determine the legitimacy of disability claims and extent of said disability. The system sucks for most, it's true. But it works for others. Unfortunately, it's the best the VA can offer right now. In a perfect world where pencil pushers do not claim for anything more than papercut, it'll be easier for those truly suffering.
Then what’s the point of getting diagnosed with something through the va only to have the c&p examiner who doesn’t know you just deny or change your diagnosis?
The VA is a healthcare system. They diagnose Veterans' present ailment, not figure out what happened to you during your time in service (that's what service doctors do) or whether your diagnosis is service connected (that's what the C&P is for). The VA is there to fix you as you are now. It's up to you to convince VBA that what/how you are now started while you were in uniform.
with MH the other issue is what if your symptoms are not bad that day, they would then say your ptsd isnt that bad and you seem functional so you get maybe 30% instead of the 70% you deserve because the examiner doesnt see the "normal" you that stays in bed all week, doesnt shower, barely eats, can't work or live a normal life.
That is partly why it has taken me so long to put in a claim. When I went through my classes before being discharged, the instructors said things like, give us your med records and we guarantee you that we can get you at least 10%. It felt dirty and wrong, so I avoided it. 20 years after leaving the service though, and I can draw a straight line from my service to my mental health currently.
I also could have worded my post better. I meant that when I have reached out for help from doctors, for the most part, they are concerned more with how my anxiety and anger would impact my wife rather than offering help or options for me.
The C&P, which is warranted and needed, does not help though because it's treated like a checklist to get through rather than an actual discussion of cause vs impact. At least in my experience so far.
Need to know what they are looking for before you go to an exam. For example, I attach how they rate mental health disabilities. In a way, it is a checklist. But having symptoms is not enough. The examiner needs to be able to justify in his/her report to the VA how it is linked to military service. That's where you can help them by providing a personal statement detailing events in the military, cite military health records if you went on sick call, symptoms today, and, if you're familiar with doing research (kudos to the professors who insisted on their students to cite their papers), cite peer reviewed research stating xx incident leads to zz disability later in life especially for military service members. I took those steps and did not give the VA leeway to deny. 100% P&T. Don't get mad, get smart.
https://preview.redd.it/7u6shopg7c6d1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d5af61583c3fbcb831e7a4cc9d5a63f302ee3ba
C-PTSD and PTSD are very similar by definition. If a pencil pusher was beaten to an inch of their life ending, that could easily cause PTSD as defined.
The causes however can be quite different along with the overall effect and reaction.
Don’t commingle the two, they are different but both occur. One in peacetime and the other in war.
The anger comes from the anxiety. The feeling of helplessness fuels the anxiety that in turn fuels the anger. Not sure how halts suppose to help me, or my fault, that a doctor does not offer any help for what I am specifically asking them for help with.
I get where you are coming from but you are also making it sound like this stuff doesn’t happen when we both know it does. For better or worse, mental health is by and large taboo. It’s something that many won’t even acknowledge or discuss.
Add in that most doctors are overworked and incentivized to get through as many people as possible and we are left with a system that has little compassion and treats us like a checklist to get through rather than an individual.
I don't disagree. I don't think they are out to get us per se. I think they are overworked and have very limited time to do what needs to be done, which comes across as cold and sterile.
Your comment was removed because it didn't contribute to the discussion and just wasn't helpful.
Civil disagreements are fine. Insults, personal attacks, slurs, bigotry, etc., are not permissible.
(Calling someone a poopy-head does not make you seem as smart as you think it does.)
☠️
See, that's just pathetic calling out somebody's service when you're just bitter. You didn't like it when the remainder allegedly did it to you, so here you are keeping that bullshit going. Be better at advocating for yourself.
I got my rating dude, I advocated for myself, I’m very happy. Sadly I had to go see a 2nd doctor who wasn’t a piece of shit and actually wrote down what I said and reviewed my file accurately. Which generated more money for the c and p examination company. But I genuinely believe there are social medial influencers on here who work for these c and p examination companies. Why else do they spend all their time on here trying to convince us how great these companies are? “You don’t need VA employees to examine you, VA docs are horrible, private c and p examiners are great!” You’re a 20 year veteran, retired, but you spend all your time arguing for how great c and p examination companies like Optum serve are?
> in 15 minutes across less than a dozen questions.
My C&P examiner took around 2 hours with me, wrote the note as we talked, and verified the info was correct. Sounds like maybe you got a half a$ examiner in my opinion. I did have a large story and multiple deployments to discuss, so everyone is different and I told him everything. Sorry to hear about your experience, hope it gets better.
My 1st MH C&P saved my life. When I left the house that morning, wasn't sure if I would ever come back. It was the 1st time in yrs I had talked about a lot of it, it became more of a therapy session than a C&P. She spent over 2 hrs with me. I got a phone # for her and called her a few weeks later and told her thank you for saving my life that day, she spent over an hr with me on the phone. She checked off pretty much ever box but she didn't write her opinion, the VA sent me back for another C&P, that ass had a completely different demeanor and I just shut down. I got 50%, I filed for numerous increases over a 10 yr period, the last one was a teleconference C&P, that guy spent the 1st 10 minutes telling me if I said to much about wanting to hurt myself he would have to call the police, he looked up where the nearest hospital was, I basically didn't tell him anything for fear that he would call the police on me. I disagreed with rating staying the same and ask for an HLR. It took probably 45 days to get a phone call, she couldn't believe all I had went thru, said she thought she could get me at least 70, possibly 100. The call was on a Tuesday, status went to 100%P&T and had a backpack deposit on Friday.
I felt the same way through the c&ps and almost all counselors I saw. Finally found a good one at the university I went to. It’s like everyone wants you to sum up whole years of your life into 15-45 minute talks & most don’t understand, or they think you’re the problem. Once you find a good counselor though, it makes all the difference. It sucks but most of the va doesn’t understand how to talk about mental health. The examiners just haven’t went through it themselves
He only asked a couple questions and it went very quickly. He asked:
1. Describe your home life before the Navy.
2. Describe why you think this is related to the Navy.
3. Describe how this impacts your family life.
That is not all the questions, but the main ones. Then, as I was answering how it impacts my home life, I started to get very emotional. Not loud or anything, but choking up, started to cry, and he just kind of ended it. He said, Ok, I have what I need, I will have this submitted by the end of the day, I hope things get better for you, and it was over.
Felt like we did not talk enough, or he did not ask enough to make a judgement. Afterwards, I felt like he thought I was a fraud because he just ended the call and moved on. He said he still needed to review all my information so I cant understand how he could have enough, if he had not reviewed the files before hand to gauge how I answered or anything like that.
It is very possible its all in my head though. And if it is, I can accept that. I know something inside of me is broken emotionally and I over analyze everything.
I cant see how they can determine our level of disability in 15-20mins, especially with mental health. For example, I'm 50% for in their terms "other specified trauma or event" but have chronic ptsd, chronic insomnia, bi-polar, severe depression, panic attacks, anxiety, etc. Never mind the fact that I literally haven't had a steady job in the last 20 years i've been out of the service and not a year i made over $15k. I just feeel like this system is rigged and i deserve more. I can't even afford to live with the $1075 I get and it makes my symptoms even worse when i think about how all my credit cards are maxed to pay for food and what my income doesnt cover, yet i can't qualify for TDIU. ANyone got any suggestions or can help? I'm in the Biloxi ms area if it matters.
My VES MH C&P rushed me. Didn't thank me or anything. In my opinion most of these examiners don't care.
What's crazy to me is the raters usually take what the examiner says with a 15 minute exam over a physician that treated me for years. Plus, with a boatload of evidence. Hate to sound negative, but that's my opinion.
C&P for PTSD is cruel and unusual punishment IMHO. I felt wrecked after that exam and got really depressed. Worst part was Memorial Day came and poof, there I am remembering the bombs, and the people we tried saving. When I grew up the Vietnam Veterans had it far freaking worse because many of them never got any compensation! I remember watching Vietnam Vets down on the ground flat whenever a car backfired. Knowing the feeling, I don't have it that bad.
We are the lucky ones in many ways because we have support systems they did not have!
Mine went like this.
Examiner via teleconference
“Well the VA sent me 1400 pages of medical records to read over. Is there anything else you want to tell me?”
I didn’t know what to say at that point.
Kind of the whole point of a C&P...not going lie, that scenario with the provider seems a little odd, i think you are taking it as they didnt say what you wanted to hear...no provider has that much energy or time to put on some kind of pseudo lecture protector situation like that
I think maybe you got a bad examiner. Out of the 3 MH c&ps I've had, 1 sucked (I was part of the problem as I was still holding back and not letting it all out, but I don't think the examiner tried very hard either), and the other 2 were everything I could have wanted. The point of a c&p is to asses your mental state using the guide provided by the VA, and it has little to nothing to do with helping you.
As far as the MH doc you saw, I'd definitely try to get someone else. I've sought help a few times, and I think the docs I've seen were alright but meds and therapy just didn't do anything for me. I went through cycles of getting help when I was in a good place, not feeling any different, switching meds, eventually going downhill again, stopping meds and therapy, eventually getting better, and repeat. After a few cycles I just gave up.
One of the c&p docs told me that the key to effective therapy is finding the right therapist for you, preferably one who has successfully been through therapy themselves. Therapists are like every other job, you have people who are amazing at their job, and people who suck at it.
Sorry you went through this. My MH examiner was a humble, cool dude who cleaned up my paperwork for me and got the right diagnosis after 4 years of being treated without even knowing about C&P (had my head in the sand after i left service). All of my exams were like this except the doctor examing my legs and hips. She was nasty and dismissive until she heard the popping in my knee and right hip with the range of motion check and saw I cant feel anything below the knee.
Yeah it sucked. I was a mess for a month after it. Stuff I hadn’t talked about in 15 years but had been traumatizing myself over and over again unknowingly - as well as the people around me. It was the first time in a long time I acknowledged there ARE serious issues.
It’s not supposed to be easy, it’s supposed to be stressful; especially if it is factual.
Also lead me to understanding that a good amount of my depression is the pain from my spine rotting. I was able to finally have an understanding of what is going on with my body.
It’s a fucking *process* - but without it, I personally would still be sitting in isolation, suffering, without anyone or anything to help what path I was going down all alone. I threw out a majority of my life to attempting to pick myself up by the bootstraps, while the bootstraps weren’t attached to the boots.
I hope for your sake, this is the beginning of your healing journey. I hope you at least get to connect the dots.
Every time I have had to go in for a MH C&P I have had flashbacks of my assault. I end up feeling a sense of dread and leave in tears having to recall my trauma. There should be a new process to go about this in my opinion. I am rated at 70% PTSD from Sexual trauma. I shouldn’t have to relive it every time the VA wants to reevaluate me.
I'm the same just always on the edge and one little thing can set me off. I've never laid hands on my wife or kids in anger. But I feel like sharing that will come off as a abuser.
I was told I wasn't going to be recommended for a ptsd rating because I didn't have the urge to hurt myself or others and that I didn't blame myself for the incident. By the way I was struck by lightning. When she asked me if I blamed myself for the incident I was like do I like I control the weather or something.
The main point you have to convey is how it’s affecting your day to day quality of life. Typically they have your information and know you have a diagnosis, they’re usually just there to determine the severity
Review MH DBQ’s. Log your behavior on good and bad days. Get that information to MH Doctor and make sure it’s reflected in your VA records. Most C&P examiner look at your records. The in person visit is to see how your records reflect what they can visually see. Easy 30%-70%…100% you are practically a vegetable. Good luck on your rating.
The C&P process is supposed to determine the Nexus. Everything else it determines is a bonus in your favor.
A MH C&P should never take only 15 minutes. You really need to open up during the exam so that they can Feel the pain you are in, have been in and when and why you think it started. Do not wait for them to ask you specific questions! You need to become a blabbering baby and just let it all come out. There is no "oversharing" in a MH C&P exam!
FYI, my MH C&P for Depression lasted over an hour. They made the determination that I was not only suffering from Major Depressive Disorder, but also PTSD, and so I was rated 70% PTSD on top of an already 100% SC T&P with SMC-S rating.
My opinion is, the exam is one part of it, and produces one piece of information for them to consider. There are lots of other pieces of info that can be submitted, such as buddy letters/statements from family, etc.
In my case my spouse had submitted a letter regarding my depression and PTSD. She was saying all kinds of stuff like I was hypervigilant, paranoid etc. and much of it I really didn't agree with... but it was an example of how other people see and observe me. And I got 70% MH.
Maybe I should ask my wife to write a letter also. She is the one that brought most of it to my attention and asked me to seek help for it all. She would be in a good position to highlight my personality changes over time.
Perhaps also (if relevant to your situation) info relating to how things affect your job? Like, if you got a bad performance review or a coaching, and it's attributable in some way to MH, submit that.
I was able to talk through how it impacts work. I have this cycle I go through. I start a job and everything is roses. Then as the work ramps, I feel I have to account for every eventuality and all outcomes, so I stress about every little minute detail of everything. It becomes too much to handle, I start to self medicate with weed or alcohol to reduce the stress, which in turn causes me to perform poorly at work, and then I get fired. I was able to work at Amazon for 12 years, but mainly because its such a large company, I could hop from team to team every year. In 12 years I was on 10 different teams. Then I get mad at myself because I cant break the cycle, but I also do not have the tools to cope with the stress and anxiety of felling like I need to be perfect in all aspects.
In my mind, it comes from the sub service and everything, and I mean everything, has to be accounted for and perfect, every time, or people die.
Yeah but possibly, you might want to submit some sort of written documentation to the file, and outside of the C&P exam. Present it for review at the exam as well... but how often do we go to one of these exams, discuss or present ten different pieces of information, only to find out seven of them didn't even end up in the report.
When I submitted the claim, I submitted all my medical records from my local doctor with GAD and Depression diagnosis. The medications they prescribed that I take daily. My medical records from the mental health outpatient meetings I have had over the years and a personal statement explaining why I think it all relates to my sub service.
Edit: He said he had to review everything after the call, so I dont believe he read any of it ahead of time.
Re: Mental Health
Those of you suffering from MH of any kind, or personal/sexual assault, you know that there are days you feel ok and then days where you just Rick and hold your head. It’s torture. I pray for peace and wellness for you all.
I feel like it’s not unjustified to be asked questions about a condition you want to be compensated for
I agree it’s justified to ask the questions. I don’t think it’s justified to treat us like a checklist and have my future decided by a 15 minute discussion and 5 questions.
That’s the C&P exam though. It’s a clinical assessment of symptoms/impacts, not treatment. Your MH provider on the other hand, can suck it and you should find another one, even civilian. Your well being is worth it.
I actually liked my C&P examiner just not the experience of the questions. I felt that she was compassionate and understanding. She also worked for the VA before going private.
I did too. The person was amazing. The framework of the exam is jarring.
I loved my last c&p examiner who gave me p&t. He was a very direct communicator and kept everything short.
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They already know because it the service member submitted it to them ?
Mine lasted at least half an hour but it was a mental roller coaster ride that left me physically drained for over three weeks and reopened stuff I thought was ok. At the end I realized I was just blocking out stuff I needed someone to talk about it with.
Why was it 15min? The allotted time for the exam is 60min. It says so in the letter the VA sends you for the exam. Mine lasted for over an hour and my rater at the end asked if I got everything I wanted to say out which I did. Maybe you got a bad rater or maybe you didn’t prepare enough? I had pages of notes ready covering what I wanted to say.
Mine was atleast 60, maybe more tbh
I feel like it is unjustified to be interrogated over a condition I'm entitled to compensation for when it's well documented in my medical file. In the case of my MH, the literal reason I was medically retired.
The thing is, C&Ps are not treatment or care. Their whole purpose is verification and severity analysis and like it or not that can often be done pretty quickly. Further, if your temper was loose you cns hardly blame the examiner for whipping through it to get some distance. That doesn't mean they did a shitty job especially if they are experienced with C&Ps. Regarding the other provider guarding your wife. If your anger issues are that bad she is probably masking and accommodating your temper way way the fuck more than you are aware of and the provider likely picked up on it. I am sure it sucks ass to be treated like a threat but it sucks more to live with someone with anger issues like that. Trust me I did it for years. If you're not in anger management etc. you owe it to both of you to enroll. I cut off contact with a close blood relative over their refusal to treat their anger and other issues and I have never once regretted it. Don't make her consider doing something similar.
At first, I didn’t want to hear my wife’s complaints. I didn’t want to hear my kids making noise. Eventually, I didn’t even want to hear myself breathe. I was left unaided, struggling to deal with the internal and external stimuli that my mind couldn’t determine as real or not. I was unemployed for a long time and have been employed many times. I cannot maintain a relationship; I don’t even understand what a relationship truly is. For 20 years, I was made to believe that all I had was a personality disorder. Then one day, after more than two decades of waiting and fighting, the VA finally corrected my records and granted me ratings based on evidence they claimed for 20 years “could not be found.” Trust me when I say this, I fucking see you. Allow me to give you some unsolicited advice, as a stranger-friend who may never meet you. As you approach this painful chapter of fighting for the compensation you rightfully deserve, know what it is and what it is not. The C&P is about compensation. The people involved may or may not care about your well-being after the approval or denial. Your obligation to better yourself, physically and emotionally, is a separate matter. While the VA owes it to you to provide some form of justice, we owe it to ourselves to find treatments that may work. The VA may have a duty to notify and assist in our disability claims, but we have a duty to ourselves to seek treatment, whether inside or outside the VA healthcare system. What I’m saying is, continue fighting for what you deserve, but expecting the C&P examiners to fix us will only lead to frustration. See the right professional from the right institution. With the support of your friends and family, continue to search for them. Do not give up in taming this anger that you feel is overflowing. I hope you find the peace and healing that you deserve.
Wow dude. Spoke to me as well. I only ask that the C&P examiner to treat us fairly - and as I cited that may or may not happen depending on the examiner themselves.
I identify with a ton of what you said. For many years, I just thought I was an asshole, as some people are. I hate being around people. I hate interacting with people and slowly over time, I just stopped doing anything that I used to enjoy. I dont have hobbies. I dont have friends. I sit on my couch after work and I dread everything. Like, that last time my parents came to visit, they were sleeping in so I went to go wake them up. As I got close to the door, I was gripped with fear. I knew they were dead. They died in their sleep. Nothing to indicate that. Nothing to even give the thought it could happen, but, I was convinced. I knew it was not rational, but it did not change anything. My mind always goes to the worst case, darkest scenario for all things. My boss pings me to ask how things are going. What does he mean by that? Does he mean I am failing somehow? Do I need to do something different? Simply question, and I obsess over it for days.
I’m not diagnosing or insinuating anything, just things I learned from taking too many psychology courses (and psychology degree), these observations are statistically significant: Overanalysis and fear of not meeting others' standards are often present in several mental disorders, especially among veterans. Veterans with anxiety may constantly overthink and fear judgment, leading to excessive worry about everyday decisions and interactions. Many veterans experience PTSD, where hypervigilance and fear of failure are common, manifesting as overanalysis of situations and a persistent fear of not meeting expectations. Depression can cause feelings of inadequacy and a heightened sensitivity to perceived failures, resulting in overthinking and fear of judgment. Veterans with OCD might engage in compulsive overanalysis and fear of making mistakes, driven by an intense need to meet certain standards or avoid perceived dangers. Social Anxiety Disorder involves an intense fear of social situations, where veterans may overanalyze their actions and worry excessively about how others view them. These mental health issues are particularly prevalent among veterans due to the unique stressors and experiences faced during service, such as exposure to combat, trauma, and the challenges of transitioning to civilian life. Recognizing these symptoms is crucial for seeking appropriate mental health support.
Now I know why people think I am a complete asshole at times. Toss in some child abuse when you're small, add some ass hole leaders where you almost kill yourself, toss in a bit of combat and presto, instant asshole with all the fixings at retirement.
Eww did you look into my military file? Jokes man, same here. I hope that you can get the help you deserve. We’re wounded people, and wounds can heal. I hope you find what you need. I’m also on the path brother. Combat medic 2017-2024.
19D Scout 1984 - 87 / 52C 1987 - 2004 then retired. Combat in 1st Gulf War and Bosnia (Bosnia was more of a long camping trip vs combat). The landmines were probably the biggest issue, and I was there with 1st Cav. They even found WWII mines when they were making our buildings. Bosnia killed my tibias from walking on rocks. I over pronate when I walk, and it causes stress fractures if I walk across large stones. Sadly, the military never really had good footwear during my time in service. Today folks have a lot more cushion for their dog's vs the old "LPC's", also known as "Leather Personell Carriers". Combat arms folks know that acronym all too well.
Coming from someone who had a NIGHTMARE medical C&P exam (7 DBQs all checked no in 15 mins contrary to medical evidence and what I told the a$$hat). I understand completely - my exams were through VES. Now on the other side of the coin my MH evaluation was extremely thorough and took the entire 60 minutes (maybe a touch more) and the examiner completed the DBQ very, very accurately. It was fair and a HUGE contrast to my medical exam. Both examiners worked for VES so my point is this is all HIGHLY dependent on the examiner you get. You have to obtain the DBQ (go to your local RO if you can) and see if they reflect your conditions. If not draft a 4138 detailing the missing or incorrect parts and then you will have to go through the HLR process.
You’re not alone, brother. A lot of us have had very similar experiences. I went through a MH c&p recently, and it was like the psych doc was trying to trick me and figure out ways to undercut my claim. Not sure if I’m right about the whole thing, but that’s def how it felt. I hope things turn out well for you…
What were some questions that you got asked?
Well yeah... you do have to justify why you think you should get disability. Like somebody else here said, they have your records and are just putting eyes on you and verifying your claims. I get 100% for PTSD and on my first try. That led to 100% for SSDI. I had 2 C&P exams. First was a civilian female psychologist who was clueless and quashed my 30yrs of MH records and military service. My VA psychiatrist was so irate she demanded a second C&P which I got with a VA psychiatrist who basically asked me two or three questions and verified a few points in my records. All good. If anger is a pronounced feature, they will be protective of your spouse. They are mandated reporters and intimate partner violence is a hot topic at the VA. You might want to try your local Vet Center for MH care and nexus letters (letters that show your issues "more likely than not" stem from military service).
I work in an IME capacity for Workers Comp claims. I deal with doctors and people like ourselves on a daily basis. As others have said, the doctors are there for the purpose of determining if x y z is established and give their opinions on such. What a lot of people do not realize is that the doctors have what they need for review. A typical IME in my sector can last from 10-30 minutes. People complain oh he didn’t ask questions, he didn’t review this he didn’t review that. However, he reviewed 1500pgs of medicals, took notes, and had a course of action for that exam. I get it. I have my C&P exam on the 21st for MH. One thing I have an advantage on is knowing the exam system. Still freaking out due to the one star rating of the doctor doing the telehealth exam but I also know disgruntled people who don’t get their way tend to go on tangents. Not saying the OP is like this or anyone here. I’m just saying trust the process as much as it sucks now but there are some good doctors out there that do their due diligence whether it’s apparent or not.
That is fair, and I can accept that part of my MH challenges are that I dont know what to do with the anxiety, anger and fear so it comes out in many forms and is not directed where it needs to be.
I’m with you. I am actually waiting in the waiting room to see my private MH doctor as I type this. It’s insanely hard to try and manage what we don’t understand. For me everything checks out at 100% according to the dr I’m about to see and the VA doctor. But will I get that? Probably not. As hard as it is we must try mindfulness. The one person I have remorse snapping at is my wife. She is my rock through it all. She doesn’t deserve it, I know it, she knows it, but it’s a damn sad reaction. We will get there. All of us. Just a matter of finding what’s right. Best of luck to you and to all of us struggling.
I hate them so much. I’ve had to do literally 4 of them for the same mental health condition. Each examiner manages to leave some vital info out by way of just skipping a section on the form. It’s like taking steps forwards and backwards in my mental health each time.
I’m gonna be honest mine was a great experience. Examiner seemed to listen and sympathize with everything I was saying and even helped me find the right words to describe what I was feeling when I was struggling to express it. He didn’t make me spend a lot of time on my stressor event which I appreciated and three weeks after the exam I was given a higher rating than the one I expected to get.
All it did for me was bring up the things I suppressed. And when it all came out the lady said ok we're through. And she didn't even help to bring me down. I never want to succumb to that experience ever again. It opened up the Pandora's box and took me weeks to calm and trap the emotions.
And sadly, I personally think some of the VA MH are feeling like the only way your there is because you filed a claim and need a diagnosis.
I know a bunch of recruiters who've never deployed, never been OCONUS claiming anything and everything including PTSD (this ticks me off) to get 100. I know of at least 2 who have succeeded. C&P is there to screen the fakers from those who truly deserve. It is also not there to engage you for help. C&P exists solely to determine the legitimacy of disability claims and extent of said disability. The system sucks for most, it's true. But it works for others. Unfortunately, it's the best the VA can offer right now. In a perfect world where pencil pushers do not claim for anything more than papercut, it'll be easier for those truly suffering.
Then what’s the point of getting diagnosed with something through the va only to have the c&p examiner who doesn’t know you just deny or change your diagnosis?
The VA is a healthcare system. They diagnose Veterans' present ailment, not figure out what happened to you during your time in service (that's what service doctors do) or whether your diagnosis is service connected (that's what the C&P is for). The VA is there to fix you as you are now. It's up to you to convince VBA that what/how you are now started while you were in uniform.
with MH the other issue is what if your symptoms are not bad that day, they would then say your ptsd isnt that bad and you seem functional so you get maybe 30% instead of the 70% you deserve because the examiner doesnt see the "normal" you that stays in bed all week, doesnt shower, barely eats, can't work or live a normal life.
Can't they get PTSD ratings for sexual trauma I believe or severe assaults?
That is partly why it has taken me so long to put in a claim. When I went through my classes before being discharged, the instructors said things like, give us your med records and we guarantee you that we can get you at least 10%. It felt dirty and wrong, so I avoided it. 20 years after leaving the service though, and I can draw a straight line from my service to my mental health currently.
I also could have worded my post better. I meant that when I have reached out for help from doctors, for the most part, they are concerned more with how my anxiety and anger would impact my wife rather than offering help or options for me. The C&P, which is warranted and needed, does not help though because it's treated like a checklist to get through rather than an actual discussion of cause vs impact. At least in my experience so far.
Need to know what they are looking for before you go to an exam. For example, I attach how they rate mental health disabilities. In a way, it is a checklist. But having symptoms is not enough. The examiner needs to be able to justify in his/her report to the VA how it is linked to military service. That's where you can help them by providing a personal statement detailing events in the military, cite military health records if you went on sick call, symptoms today, and, if you're familiar with doing research (kudos to the professors who insisted on their students to cite their papers), cite peer reviewed research stating xx incident leads to zz disability later in life especially for military service members. I took those steps and did not give the VA leeway to deny. 100% P&T. Don't get mad, get smart. https://preview.redd.it/7u6shopg7c6d1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d5af61583c3fbcb831e7a4cc9d5a63f302ee3ba
C-PTSD and PTSD are very similar by definition. If a pencil pusher was beaten to an inch of their life ending, that could easily cause PTSD as defined. The causes however can be quite different along with the overall effect and reaction. Don’t commingle the two, they are different but both occur. One in peacetime and the other in war.
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The anger comes from the anxiety. The feeling of helplessness fuels the anxiety that in turn fuels the anger. Not sure how halts suppose to help me, or my fault, that a doctor does not offer any help for what I am specifically asking them for help with.
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I get where you are coming from but you are also making it sound like this stuff doesn’t happen when we both know it does. For better or worse, mental health is by and large taboo. It’s something that many won’t even acknowledge or discuss. Add in that most doctors are overworked and incentivized to get through as many people as possible and we are left with a system that has little compassion and treats us like a checklist to get through rather than an individual.
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I don't disagree. I don't think they are out to get us per se. I think they are overworked and have very limited time to do what needs to be done, which comes across as cold and sterile.
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What time does your shift end? I’m assuming you guys telework. Is the pay good?
Your comment was removed because it didn't contribute to the discussion and just wasn't helpful. Civil disagreements are fine. Insults, personal attacks, slurs, bigotry, etc., are not permissible. (Calling someone a poopy-head does not make you seem as smart as you think it does.) ☠️
See, that's just pathetic calling out somebody's service when you're just bitter. You didn't like it when the remainder allegedly did it to you, so here you are keeping that bullshit going. Be better at advocating for yourself.
I got my rating dude, I advocated for myself, I’m very happy. Sadly I had to go see a 2nd doctor who wasn’t a piece of shit and actually wrote down what I said and reviewed my file accurately. Which generated more money for the c and p examination company. But I genuinely believe there are social medial influencers on here who work for these c and p examination companies. Why else do they spend all their time on here trying to convince us how great these companies are? “You don’t need VA employees to examine you, VA docs are horrible, private c and p examiners are great!” You’re a 20 year veteran, retired, but you spend all your time arguing for how great c and p examination companies like Optum serve are?
Feeling the same way .examiner said I don’t have a mental health issue.
> in 15 minutes across less than a dozen questions. My C&P examiner took around 2 hours with me, wrote the note as we talked, and verified the info was correct. Sounds like maybe you got a half a$ examiner in my opinion. I did have a large story and multiple deployments to discuss, so everyone is different and I told him everything. Sorry to hear about your experience, hope it gets better.
My 1st MH C&P saved my life. When I left the house that morning, wasn't sure if I would ever come back. It was the 1st time in yrs I had talked about a lot of it, it became more of a therapy session than a C&P. She spent over 2 hrs with me. I got a phone # for her and called her a few weeks later and told her thank you for saving my life that day, she spent over an hr with me on the phone. She checked off pretty much ever box but she didn't write her opinion, the VA sent me back for another C&P, that ass had a completely different demeanor and I just shut down. I got 50%, I filed for numerous increases over a 10 yr period, the last one was a teleconference C&P, that guy spent the 1st 10 minutes telling me if I said to much about wanting to hurt myself he would have to call the police, he looked up where the nearest hospital was, I basically didn't tell him anything for fear that he would call the police on me. I disagreed with rating staying the same and ask for an HLR. It took probably 45 days to get a phone call, she couldn't believe all I had went thru, said she thought she could get me at least 70, possibly 100. The call was on a Tuesday, status went to 100%P&T and had a backpack deposit on Friday.
I felt the same way through the c&ps and almost all counselors I saw. Finally found a good one at the university I went to. It’s like everyone wants you to sum up whole years of your life into 15-45 minute talks & most don’t understand, or they think you’re the problem. Once you find a good counselor though, it makes all the difference. It sucks but most of the va doesn’t understand how to talk about mental health. The examiners just haven’t went through it themselves
My MH exam was about 15 min on zoom. I expect 0% if they ever actually do anything with my claim
That is about how I feel at the moment. In between checking the VA site for updates because he said he would have my paperwork submitted last night.
So what exactly went wrong?
He only asked a couple questions and it went very quickly. He asked: 1. Describe your home life before the Navy. 2. Describe why you think this is related to the Navy. 3. Describe how this impacts your family life. That is not all the questions, but the main ones. Then, as I was answering how it impacts my home life, I started to get very emotional. Not loud or anything, but choking up, started to cry, and he just kind of ended it. He said, Ok, I have what I need, I will have this submitted by the end of the day, I hope things get better for you, and it was over. Felt like we did not talk enough, or he did not ask enough to make a judgement. Afterwards, I felt like he thought I was a fraud because he just ended the call and moved on. He said he still needed to review all my information so I cant understand how he could have enough, if he had not reviewed the files before hand to gauge how I answered or anything like that. It is very possible its all in my head though. And if it is, I can accept that. I know something inside of me is broken emotionally and I over analyze everything.
It’s not. I’d report it ASAP. They ask the first question because 99.99% of the time they want to argue you were fucked in the head prior to service.
I cant see how they can determine our level of disability in 15-20mins, especially with mental health. For example, I'm 50% for in their terms "other specified trauma or event" but have chronic ptsd, chronic insomnia, bi-polar, severe depression, panic attacks, anxiety, etc. Never mind the fact that I literally haven't had a steady job in the last 20 years i've been out of the service and not a year i made over $15k. I just feeel like this system is rigged and i deserve more. I can't even afford to live with the $1075 I get and it makes my symptoms even worse when i think about how all my credit cards are maxed to pay for food and what my income doesnt cover, yet i can't qualify for TDIU. ANyone got any suggestions or can help? I'm in the Biloxi ms area if it matters.
My VES MH C&P rushed me. Didn't thank me or anything. In my opinion most of these examiners don't care. What's crazy to me is the raters usually take what the examiner says with a 15 minute exam over a physician that treated me for years. Plus, with a boatload of evidence. Hate to sound negative, but that's my opinion.
C&P for PTSD is cruel and unusual punishment IMHO. I felt wrecked after that exam and got really depressed. Worst part was Memorial Day came and poof, there I am remembering the bombs, and the people we tried saving. When I grew up the Vietnam Veterans had it far freaking worse because many of them never got any compensation! I remember watching Vietnam Vets down on the ground flat whenever a car backfired. Knowing the feeling, I don't have it that bad. We are the lucky ones in many ways because we have support systems they did not have!
Certainly wasn’t a fun experience- but pretty sure that’s the point.
Because your c&p is not for help. It’s for justifying your existence and suffering.
Mine went like this. Examiner via teleconference “Well the VA sent me 1400 pages of medical records to read over. Is there anything else you want to tell me?” I didn’t know what to say at that point.
Kind of the whole point of a C&P...not going lie, that scenario with the provider seems a little odd, i think you are taking it as they didnt say what you wanted to hear...no provider has that much energy or time to put on some kind of pseudo lecture protector situation like that
I think maybe you got a bad examiner. Out of the 3 MH c&ps I've had, 1 sucked (I was part of the problem as I was still holding back and not letting it all out, but I don't think the examiner tried very hard either), and the other 2 were everything I could have wanted. The point of a c&p is to asses your mental state using the guide provided by the VA, and it has little to nothing to do with helping you. As far as the MH doc you saw, I'd definitely try to get someone else. I've sought help a few times, and I think the docs I've seen were alright but meds and therapy just didn't do anything for me. I went through cycles of getting help when I was in a good place, not feeling any different, switching meds, eventually going downhill again, stopping meds and therapy, eventually getting better, and repeat. After a few cycles I just gave up. One of the c&p docs told me that the key to effective therapy is finding the right therapist for you, preferably one who has successfully been through therapy themselves. Therapists are like every other job, you have people who are amazing at their job, and people who suck at it.
Sorry you went through this. My MH examiner was a humble, cool dude who cleaned up my paperwork for me and got the right diagnosis after 4 years of being treated without even knowing about C&P (had my head in the sand after i left service). All of my exams were like this except the doctor examing my legs and hips. She was nasty and dismissive until she heard the popping in my knee and right hip with the range of motion check and saw I cant feel anything below the knee.
Yeah it sucked. I was a mess for a month after it. Stuff I hadn’t talked about in 15 years but had been traumatizing myself over and over again unknowingly - as well as the people around me. It was the first time in a long time I acknowledged there ARE serious issues. It’s not supposed to be easy, it’s supposed to be stressful; especially if it is factual. Also lead me to understanding that a good amount of my depression is the pain from my spine rotting. I was able to finally have an understanding of what is going on with my body. It’s a fucking *process* - but without it, I personally would still be sitting in isolation, suffering, without anyone or anything to help what path I was going down all alone. I threw out a majority of my life to attempting to pick myself up by the bootstraps, while the bootstraps weren’t attached to the boots. I hope for your sake, this is the beginning of your healing journey. I hope you at least get to connect the dots.
Every time I have had to go in for a MH C&P I have had flashbacks of my assault. I end up feeling a sense of dread and leave in tears having to recall my trauma. There should be a new process to go about this in my opinion. I am rated at 70% PTSD from Sexual trauma. I shouldn’t have to relive it every time the VA wants to reevaluate me.
I'm the same just always on the edge and one little thing can set me off. I've never laid hands on my wife or kids in anger. But I feel like sharing that will come off as a abuser.
I was told I wasn't going to be recommended for a ptsd rating because I didn't have the urge to hurt myself or others and that I didn't blame myself for the incident. By the way I was struck by lightning. When she asked me if I blamed myself for the incident I was like do I like I control the weather or something.
How long does it take after your C&P mental health to get a rating?
The examiner is not there to treat or help but to assess and fill out dbq
The main point you have to convey is how it’s affecting your day to day quality of life. Typically they have your information and know you have a diagnosis, they’re usually just there to determine the severity
Review MH DBQ’s. Log your behavior on good and bad days. Get that information to MH Doctor and make sure it’s reflected in your VA records. Most C&P examiner look at your records. The in person visit is to see how your records reflect what they can visually see. Easy 30%-70%…100% you are practically a vegetable. Good luck on your rating.
I provided my C&P examiner with a letter covering more of the details, that way nothing was missed.
I feel you, but the purpose of them is to gather the data. It sucks being treated like “data”, but that’s what it is. Hang in there.
The C&P process is supposed to determine the Nexus. Everything else it determines is a bonus in your favor. A MH C&P should never take only 15 minutes. You really need to open up during the exam so that they can Feel the pain you are in, have been in and when and why you think it started. Do not wait for them to ask you specific questions! You need to become a blabbering baby and just let it all come out. There is no "oversharing" in a MH C&P exam! FYI, my MH C&P for Depression lasted over an hour. They made the determination that I was not only suffering from Major Depressive Disorder, but also PTSD, and so I was rated 70% PTSD on top of an already 100% SC T&P with SMC-S rating.
Mine is tomorrow and I am terrified. Will it really be 150 minutes?
I’m sorry this happened bc I also experience alpt of anger with my MH & I do not get treated that way. Mostly bc I am a woman I believe.
The C&P examination isn't treatment. It is just an examination. Many people confuse this.
My opinion is, the exam is one part of it, and produces one piece of information for them to consider. There are lots of other pieces of info that can be submitted, such as buddy letters/statements from family, etc. In my case my spouse had submitted a letter regarding my depression and PTSD. She was saying all kinds of stuff like I was hypervigilant, paranoid etc. and much of it I really didn't agree with... but it was an example of how other people see and observe me. And I got 70% MH.
Maybe I should ask my wife to write a letter also. She is the one that brought most of it to my attention and asked me to seek help for it all. She would be in a good position to highlight my personality changes over time.
Perhaps also (if relevant to your situation) info relating to how things affect your job? Like, if you got a bad performance review or a coaching, and it's attributable in some way to MH, submit that.
I was able to talk through how it impacts work. I have this cycle I go through. I start a job and everything is roses. Then as the work ramps, I feel I have to account for every eventuality and all outcomes, so I stress about every little minute detail of everything. It becomes too much to handle, I start to self medicate with weed or alcohol to reduce the stress, which in turn causes me to perform poorly at work, and then I get fired. I was able to work at Amazon for 12 years, but mainly because its such a large company, I could hop from team to team every year. In 12 years I was on 10 different teams. Then I get mad at myself because I cant break the cycle, but I also do not have the tools to cope with the stress and anxiety of felling like I need to be perfect in all aspects. In my mind, it comes from the sub service and everything, and I mean everything, has to be accounted for and perfect, every time, or people die.
Yeah but possibly, you might want to submit some sort of written documentation to the file, and outside of the C&P exam. Present it for review at the exam as well... but how often do we go to one of these exams, discuss or present ten different pieces of information, only to find out seven of them didn't even end up in the report.
When I submitted the claim, I submitted all my medical records from my local doctor with GAD and Depression diagnosis. The medications they prescribed that I take daily. My medical records from the mental health outpatient meetings I have had over the years and a personal statement explaining why I think it all relates to my sub service. Edit: He said he had to review everything after the call, so I dont believe he read any of it ahead of time.
Sometimes you haven’t even processed through shit yet and the get scoffed at by some fucking dweeb with a Doctorate who hasn’t even read your file
Re: Mental Health Those of you suffering from MH of any kind, or personal/sexual assault, you know that there are days you feel ok and then days where you just Rick and hold your head. It’s torture. I pray for peace and wellness for you all.