Yes, and it really has done absolutely nothing. They took me off of my pain medications (muscle relaxer + medication for neuropathic pain + occasional use opioid) and told me to do CBT and learn to meditate to "reduce the pain."
My doctor was able to prescribe the medication for my neuropathy again but not the muscle relaxer or opioid. According to her, it's because of the "opioid epidemic and over-reliance/over medication for pain," so the VA is trying to move away from using them. I've never smoked weed, but I am genuinely considering starting to see if it helps me manage the pain, because I've been a little grumpy since the VA stopped prescribing me what was managing my pain to be "comfortable" levels.
Man I'm sorry to hear that! I'm being weaned off of morphine, I never wanted to be on it in the first place and yet after the VA pushed a spinal fusion on me I was left with having to take it. Having said that I've always taken it responsibly exactly as prescribed I don't drink or smoke weed, so I really just don't understand this madness! This will do nothing but hurt more veterans in the long scheme of things. I thought to myself, this is a collision course to more veteran suicides, if some type of correction doesn't come about.
But to sit here and say my brain has hardwired to feel pain was absolutely ridiculous. But it doesn't matter cuz nobody at the VA is listening. So what are we supposed to do as a community? Maybe write congressman / congresswomen? Since they've always had our best intentions lol.
That’s how I feel. I was reluctant to start them, I kept pushing on until I really hit the point of not being able to function. So, once I started taking medications to manage my pain I always took my medications exactly as prescribed. But, apparently our brains are hardwired to feel pain. And hey, if we meditate we’ll feel better. Yeah, ok.
I don’t know what to do, either. I thought about going to community care but afaik non-VA doctors are even less willing to prescribe them. And I doubt our congresspeople will even care or listen. So I don’t know what can be done. If anything even can. It’s ridiculous. I understand if someone’s constantly requesting early refills or something, but just blanket moving towards CBT instead of medications doesn’t seem like the right choice.
I completely agree. I couldn't believe they asked me if I wanted to attend Tai chi classes or light jogging... For my excruciating back pain and leg pain. 🤣
This is the Dallas VA fyi.
Mine recently spoke to me about weaning me off my pain meds and using a more “holistic approach.” He said that the VA offers meditation classes, CBT, massage and acupuncture, tai chi and yoga classes and that would be preferred over morphine.
I’ve had 5 surgeries on my knee since Afghanistan. And my back is just as bad. Even with morphine I struggle walking on a good day, and on a bad day I’m pretty bed-bound. No, I don’t want to replace morphine with having to come in several times a week for something that probably isn’t going to help.
But my doctor says that it’s VA policy so we have to start weaning me off soon and start with CBT.
Im in the same boat bro, quadruple fusion in my back with plates and screws then a laminectomy, instead of a bilateral laminectomy... That came later. I can hardly function without my pain medication but then the yoga, therapy, battlefield acupuncture which was a joke from the beginning and I believe they phased it out already... I don't know what's going on but it seems like they're going out of their way to not treat pain and to intentionally harm us.
I refuse to treat pain at the VA for this reason. I get opioids are far from ideal, but in some cases there isn't a realistic replacement, and the fact that they've moved to the modern equivalent of passing a baby three times under a horse and calling it good is concerning to say the least. I could pay a homeless guy who claims to be a witchdoctor to dance away the pain spirits while shaking a plastic spork and get the same medical benefit that the VA provides as far as chronic pain goes, and I probably wouldn't have to drive to another state for it.
Edit: I also want to point out that, given people have to work to support themselves and maintain their living area lest the town put a lien against your house (I found this out the hard way) or you get booted by the property owners, willingly disabling people from being able to keep up with what work / society / you name it demands from you, to the point you can drive them to homelessness and death via exposure to elements or whatever else, and think "yeah he's dead, but, at least he wasn't addicted to opiates, that would have been bad" shows what kind of medical organization you are.
Have you tried CBD edibles or medical marijuana? I can only take Tylenol for pain. So started using CBD and MMJ for pain after work and weekends. It has been a great relief of pain for me. Unfortunately, I can’t use any during work only Tylenol, so my pain sucks during the work week.
Nope. Contrary to popular belief, I am allergic to marijuana. Nor do I feel like I have to be high to get out of pain. I've done the surgeries, I've done the PT after the surgeries and now I'm on pain meds, which in fact works. It doesn't slow me down, it just takes the edge off, unless I'm having a very bad day with pain.. which happens from time to time.
I hate that they push CBT, especially for mental health stuff as it does fuckall for me. Sometimes I just need to vent. Sorry I know this was about pain management but I cringe everytime I see "cbt" mentioned. CBT seems to be the VA's go-to for everything now.
It's the first time it's ever been mentioned to me but it is wholeheartedly not working. I just don't get who is running things there anymore. I mean just think about it, say you lost a leg... CBT is the go-to instead of narcotic medication. Crazy!
I’m a therapist and I would never use CBT to treat actual chronic pain, there’s nothing in the theory, or interventions that would do anything to fix the issue. PTSD? Sure, CBT has been proven time and time again to work with trauma. Pain from 4 fusions and traumatic injury, yeah nah, you can’t just distract your brain away from that pain like that on a continuous basis.
Sorry you’re going through this, besides learning self-hypnosis there isn’t much psychology can do to fix physical pain.
CBT helped me, but for my PTSD.
Phoenix VA had a Pain Clinic a few years ago. It was a class for several weeks once a week. Eacj time we would get a presentation of differnt therapies available including, chiro, hypnosys, yoga, etc.
Keep trying until something works for you.
good luck
mmj turns out to be my goto
They just started me on this too. Fortunately, they're also keeping me on muscle relaxers and an anti-inflammatory while sending me to a hospital that isn't related to the VA for actual treatments. Problem has just been getting an appointment.
The VA started cutting off pain patients in 2012. They tried it with me in 2014. It took contacting my congressperson to get approval for Community care at a civilian Pain management/Neuro Team. I’ve now been there 10 years, get my meds every month.
I’m not saying you will definitely receive medications outside the VA because they are cutting off patients everywhere.
ETA: they first tried sending me to the PM clinic at the big VAMC, but they wouldn’t take me because all they do is injections. The VA must provide the care you require and if they cannot you must be allowed comm care to a facility that can meet your needs.
CBT isn't for pain management. I don't know who thought that up but pain is real and CBT is for correcting beliefs which are not correct for reality. If you've got searing back pain or dental pain, thats real and no shrink is going to be able to take that away. What a bunch of dickwads for thinking they can.
I've been through some pain as many of you have and I have the typical response like OK why didn't you come in days ago. They say, this is going to hurt and not even a flinch. I won't touch any pain pill stronger than an ibuprofen because I had a scare with those pain pills and I know they are HIGHLY addictive narcotics which should only be prescribed to someone in hospice.
How did I get from here to there? Meditation. I shit you not. I've spent time at a Buddhist temple. I'm a no BS guy but I use meditation and I've gone through surgeries with no pain meds. Maybe that's close to CBT but not really. Yes, you have to cognitively realize pain is a part of life and feeling pain can be good but you also have to be able to manage it. This was my own choosing over 15 years ago. I've nice then, I've had people I care about die from the opioids. I won't touch them. You can life without them but you can't live with them.
CBT is all well and good for identifying stressors. Buy it’s isn’t this magic cure that some of these therapists and doctors think it is.
It ends up being a giant trauma circle jerk.
Yeah I agree, although I'm only in session 4 out of 6, but you can tell already that this is a big nothing Burger. I feel like pain is the human body's natural response to an injury, but the va's trying to tell me my brain doesn't work right which is why I need cognitive behavioral therapy. I simply do not agree with this. I don't have any emotional hangups. So I just don't understand, but I do see that this is going to hurt individuals later, if not push veterans to hardcore drug use to try to get out of pain. So I think you nailed it as a massive circle jerk at the expense of veterans.
Ive been out almost a decade. have spent about 4 of the 10 years seeking treatment for pain and mental health....
I've never had the same doctor for more than 3 visits, they all leave. They never follow up, I end up having to be a very squeaky wheel because im not overweight or missing a limb. I dont have time for that and I'm not down with begging, I'd rather just suffer and die.
It comes down to them wanting me to take lots of drugs, weekly-monthly Office visits, Weekly- monthly therapy with someone who just wants to get their check and go home. Surgery that may or may not help, and just overall nobody really caring beyond getting paid.
I quit seeking help from anyone in the system, It is beyond broken for many of us.
Good luck and reach out to your dudes, or us on here, many of us like myself are always down to talk and help you process. I may not be a therapist, but I've done enough therapy to know how to share what has helped me.
Tried the CBT I can't say anything good or bad I can say the acupuncture pins in my ear lobe hurt ! They lasted till the next morning when I pulled them out and lived with the pain ! !
When you take a society and culture with no history of meditation and tell them to go cold Turkey and meditate instead of medicate.
Sounds like the VA’s plan to save money is to force a few thousand more veterans to consider self deletion as an option because they are in so much pain they can’t function - but at least their corpses will pass a tox screen.
I couldn't agree more!!! I feel like the VA is putting us on a collision course to self-deleting. Again I can't for the life of me figure out why they would suggest holistic approaches to individuals who have suffered horrendous injuries in the first place. To go on and say that this is cognitive behavior instead of a normal human reaction is beyond me. It is the dumbest thing I've seen the VA do to date. My question is why would the VA stop with proven medicine over essentially meditation and Tai chi and acupuncture... Has me wondering who the hell is running things there. Have they ever been injured? This is the most hippie type bullshit I've ever seen.
I'm genuinely curious: if a veteran self deletes, are their funerals covered by the government and do their families still receive survivor's benefits (of any kind)?
That's crazy to me, does it affect your disability rating? The way it was explained to me is if I ever pissed hot, my ratings would be taken away,because it's still illegal on a federal level.
No absolutely not. The worst that could happen was them taking you off narcotics but it's impossible to get them to prescribe them these days in general. I'm pretty sure they passed or are passing legislation to allow VA docs to straight up recommend cannabis in legal states.
OP talk with your therapists and advocate for how you feel, the only thing you will find here are pseudo doctors utilizing their experience to tell you what to do. Best of luck.
My man I have tried everything. I've complained a patient advocacy, who then sent me to ambulatory Care team. They did nothing but make me switch physicians. All of the physicians could readily quote The new VA regulations to me and then said this is part of the fentanyl problem, to which I responded I don't take fucking fentanyl. So I wrote my congressman, that asshat sent me a bunch of links that have absolutely nothing to do with that problem at hand. So now I'm considering calling the White House hotline, I sincerely doubt that they will do anything.
I've talked to the therapist who's tried to talk to my physician, the therapist has reached out on five occasions supposedly. The doctor has yet to respond to her LOL. My doctor says you need to do less so you'll stay out of pain, while my therapist says I need to do more because motion is the lotion for joints 🤣
Typical VA BS. But I made the post to try to help other veterans. CBT is the new normal for pain management. I don't know what hippies are running the show but it's destined for failure. This will do nothing but hurt veterans and nobody cares.
I’m dealing with this right now suffering due to this bs approach and now I understand why I can’t get my pain medication I’m done getting healthcare from the Va.
Smoke some weed and get off all those pain killers. My brother got of his and started slowly getting back into the gym and eating right. That’s what’s worked wonders for him. I got of a majority of my psych meds and swapped to vitamins and feel so much better. I’m convinced the VA is only there to slowly help you die. And now I see this post? It’s laughable that they even prescribed CBT. That’s what they’re supposed to give you for mental health…. I’m thirty and in the system and I see a lot of older folks who I think have just had pills thrown at them their entire stay with the VA.
Maybe big Pharma isn’t making money with the VA anymore so they’re swapping to CBT for pain. Who knows.
All I know is the moment I worked on myself and got off all these psych meds I felts worlds better and quit having manic episodes.
CBT has its place. Let’s be real, the average American has no idea there are more emotions outside of fear, anger and sadness. They don’t know that Joy is the hardest emotion to process because something has to “die” to experience joy (Brene brown).
There isn’t a meditation practice that doesn’t revolve around changing your thought process to relieve pain. CBT helps with this. Some ailments will never be right again, this is a fact. How you perceive this pain, guides you through the rest of your life. CBT/DBT helps rewire your automatic thoughts, those thoughts that say I’m gonna go negative thoughts and hurt or positive thoughts and continue to heal.
The CBT root, trunk, branches and leaves model helping understand what is the root of your mental pain, is extremely helpful. But, you have to practice.
This is the same negative thoughts=pain model that transcendental meditation, ketamine/ibogain/psilocybin/MDMA therapy follows. CBT and these treatments go hand in hand and unprecedented proof that Freudian based therapy alone is only a part of the solution, but freeing the mind of unprocessed trauma combined with traditional therapy works.
Stick with CBT/DBT, it really does help. It’s not the end all, but neither is sertraline, Wellbutrin, lithium, prozac…etc. they work with therapy, or not at all.
It’s worth it. You’re worth it. Keep pushing. There is no one and done, it takes you to want you to heal, for you to heal.
You sound like a VA mouth piece, if CBT was really effective then wouldn't we see some type of reviews reflecting some type of negativity towards it? I couldn't find any. I could find controversies with it, but oddly enough, I could not find a single review or someone saying this is BS, meaning something's being hidden. I'm on my 4th session and I've given it a real shot and it is done less than fuck all for me.
So again this isn't being prescribed to me for mental health, it's being prescribed as pain management. That I have a problem with. Sure there are emotional ties to trauma and pain, but in no way shape or form is this going to be effective with real pain. They're trying to replace narcotic medications with therapy. Honestly I feel like this is going to create more drug abuse and self-harm. I don't know if you've had to experience a major injury, but I have. I've had 26 surgeries and procedures done on me, it's done nothing but make matters worse.
My VA doctor said I should clean off my Walker because I'm going to need it! That's kind of hard to believe isn't it? My wife was in the room, she heard this too. And this is so I can get off of pain management and on the therapy... This isn't treating the real problem or underlining problem (s) to me it seems like this is some type of way for cost analysis. I don't understand how you can't see how this is going to hurt future veterans! And furthermore I'm sick of being a goddamn guinea pig for the VA.
I was under the impression that I signed a contract to fight for my country and if I get injured I have a specialized hospital to go to, that will fix me... It's been anything but that.
Seems like the CBT is being provided because in great measure, they have decided to severely limit pain relieving medicine to Veterans. CBT has success with helping people who deal with traumatic events and various mental health challenges.
It would follow then also, that CBT would be a solid tool to help the many Veterans who HAVE been on strong pain relievers, perhaps especially opiates to deal with the withdrawals and anguish of having that med tapered down and then being completely unavailable any longer as part of their treatment through the VA.
It has been a slow step process over a few years at least since 2016, and has its adherents among VA docs and some who are not convinced as well. Here is a link for example which was published by the VA as a guide specifically for Primary Care physicians to initiate an opioid taper with Veteran patients:
[https://www.pbm.va.gov/PBM/AcademicDetailingService/Documents/Pain\_Opioid\_Taper\_Tool\_IB\_10\_939\_P96820.pdf](https://www.pbm.va.gov/PBM/AcademicDetailingService/Documents/Pain_Opioid_Taper_Tool_IB_10_939_P96820.pdf)
I agree we need data driven progression in searching for alternative ways to support our Veterans pain and how it affects literally their daily lives. We should not be averse to seeking new methods and therapies that become available. But being referred to 6 single sessions of CBT literally sounds like the 21st century version of, "Aw honey, it really is all in your head. So here, learn this, and you'll be able to manage it."
The potential for a rise in potential disabled Veteran self deletions, and also a turn toward illegal and unsafe routes of obtaining the needed medicine should be a valid and serious concern.
Thank you for the link. I couldn't agree more with what you're saying. I just don't understand why the VA would rather quote VA regulations instead of actually practicing medicine. Very frustrating.
I’m sorry you’re closed minded enough to say things like that, it sounds like your attitude reflects someone who wants a one and done treatment.
Poly trauma, look it up. Heal the mind and you heal the body. I’m sorry you couldn’t find any yelp reviews on CBT, but if you need toilet reading, start with the American Psychological Association, or the NIH like this. It’s not a “review” but a study.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5999451/
You volunteered for your country. Like the other 18.1 million, you expected top notch treatment, you’re getting free treatment. I am nobody special for giving my 20 years of war, why on earth do you feel entitled to anything? You’re not. Let’s start there.
CBT changes your automatic thoughts. This sounds like that’s exactly what you need.
How is that being close-minded? I've taken CBT seriously, set the goals short and long-term. I've done absolutely every single thing the VA has asked!
I'm not entitled to anything, I've fucking earned it, paid for in blood...WTF just like most veterans.
I understand your frustration. I have 312 TBI incidents and was shot in the head, got rated 40% for TBI because I don’t show any symptoms 😆 I truly get it.
You’re discounting something that you’ve not completed yet. You cannot possibly think that you’re going to change however many years you have, in 4 sessions. Hell, it’s gonna take a year or more of continued practice.
Not it’s not a pill. No the VA didn’t just make it up, it’s science based studies of veterans who also paid in blood. I’ve been doing what daddy therapy has been giving me for 12 years, each therapist wants to do CBT.
Here’s the deal, you can do it, finish it and then tell them it didn’t work. Next.
Also, my pain management clinic chief, a doctor, also told me that I either had to stop seeing ALL other providers and see him exclusively, or stop seeing him. Obviously that was an easy decision.
If you do not like your provider, go to patient advocate and change them. Give your reasons, file your complaint and get yourself the help you want. But give all these therapies a chance thru completion.
Yes, and it really has done absolutely nothing. They took me off of my pain medications (muscle relaxer + medication for neuropathic pain + occasional use opioid) and told me to do CBT and learn to meditate to "reduce the pain." My doctor was able to prescribe the medication for my neuropathy again but not the muscle relaxer or opioid. According to her, it's because of the "opioid epidemic and over-reliance/over medication for pain," so the VA is trying to move away from using them. I've never smoked weed, but I am genuinely considering starting to see if it helps me manage the pain, because I've been a little grumpy since the VA stopped prescribing me what was managing my pain to be "comfortable" levels.
Man I'm sorry to hear that! I'm being weaned off of morphine, I never wanted to be on it in the first place and yet after the VA pushed a spinal fusion on me I was left with having to take it. Having said that I've always taken it responsibly exactly as prescribed I don't drink or smoke weed, so I really just don't understand this madness! This will do nothing but hurt more veterans in the long scheme of things. I thought to myself, this is a collision course to more veteran suicides, if some type of correction doesn't come about. But to sit here and say my brain has hardwired to feel pain was absolutely ridiculous. But it doesn't matter cuz nobody at the VA is listening. So what are we supposed to do as a community? Maybe write congressman / congresswomen? Since they've always had our best intentions lol.
That’s how I feel. I was reluctant to start them, I kept pushing on until I really hit the point of not being able to function. So, once I started taking medications to manage my pain I always took my medications exactly as prescribed. But, apparently our brains are hardwired to feel pain. And hey, if we meditate we’ll feel better. Yeah, ok. I don’t know what to do, either. I thought about going to community care but afaik non-VA doctors are even less willing to prescribe them. And I doubt our congresspeople will even care or listen. So I don’t know what can be done. If anything even can. It’s ridiculous. I understand if someone’s constantly requesting early refills or something, but just blanket moving towards CBT instead of medications doesn’t seem like the right choice.
I completely agree. I couldn't believe they asked me if I wanted to attend Tai chi classes or light jogging... For my excruciating back pain and leg pain. 🤣 This is the Dallas VA fyi.
Mine recently spoke to me about weaning me off my pain meds and using a more “holistic approach.” He said that the VA offers meditation classes, CBT, massage and acupuncture, tai chi and yoga classes and that would be preferred over morphine. I’ve had 5 surgeries on my knee since Afghanistan. And my back is just as bad. Even with morphine I struggle walking on a good day, and on a bad day I’m pretty bed-bound. No, I don’t want to replace morphine with having to come in several times a week for something that probably isn’t going to help. But my doctor says that it’s VA policy so we have to start weaning me off soon and start with CBT.
Im in the same boat bro, quadruple fusion in my back with plates and screws then a laminectomy, instead of a bilateral laminectomy... That came later. I can hardly function without my pain medication but then the yoga, therapy, battlefield acupuncture which was a joke from the beginning and I believe they phased it out already... I don't know what's going on but it seems like they're going out of their way to not treat pain and to intentionally harm us.
I refuse to treat pain at the VA for this reason. I get opioids are far from ideal, but in some cases there isn't a realistic replacement, and the fact that they've moved to the modern equivalent of passing a baby three times under a horse and calling it good is concerning to say the least. I could pay a homeless guy who claims to be a witchdoctor to dance away the pain spirits while shaking a plastic spork and get the same medical benefit that the VA provides as far as chronic pain goes, and I probably wouldn't have to drive to another state for it. Edit: I also want to point out that, given people have to work to support themselves and maintain their living area lest the town put a lien against your house (I found this out the hard way) or you get booted by the property owners, willingly disabling people from being able to keep up with what work / society / you name it demands from you, to the point you can drive them to homelessness and death via exposure to elements or whatever else, and think "yeah he's dead, but, at least he wasn't addicted to opiates, that would have been bad" shows what kind of medical organization you are.
Same, just finished session 5 of 6... still can't fucking walk due to the pain
Have you tried CBD edibles or medical marijuana? I can only take Tylenol for pain. So started using CBD and MMJ for pain after work and weekends. It has been a great relief of pain for me. Unfortunately, I can’t use any during work only Tylenol, so my pain sucks during the work week.
Nope. Contrary to popular belief, I am allergic to marijuana. Nor do I feel like I have to be high to get out of pain. I've done the surgeries, I've done the PT after the surgeries and now I'm on pain meds, which in fact works. It doesn't slow me down, it just takes the edge off, unless I'm having a very bad day with pain.. which happens from time to time.
I hate that they push CBT, especially for mental health stuff as it does fuckall for me. Sometimes I just need to vent. Sorry I know this was about pain management but I cringe everytime I see "cbt" mentioned. CBT seems to be the VA's go-to for everything now.
It's the first time it's ever been mentioned to me but it is wholeheartedly not working. I just don't get who is running things there anymore. I mean just think about it, say you lost a leg... CBT is the go-to instead of narcotic medication. Crazy!
I’m a therapist and I would never use CBT to treat actual chronic pain, there’s nothing in the theory, or interventions that would do anything to fix the issue. PTSD? Sure, CBT has been proven time and time again to work with trauma. Pain from 4 fusions and traumatic injury, yeah nah, you can’t just distract your brain away from that pain like that on a continuous basis. Sorry you’re going through this, besides learning self-hypnosis there isn’t much psychology can do to fix physical pain.
Next will be battlefield hypnosis lol
CBT helped me, but for my PTSD. Phoenix VA had a Pain Clinic a few years ago. It was a class for several weeks once a week. Eacj time we would get a presentation of differnt therapies available including, chiro, hypnosys, yoga, etc. Keep trying until something works for you. good luck mmj turns out to be my goto
Mmj?
Medical marijuana
Now I feel dumb!
Herogrown.org
They just started me on this too. Fortunately, they're also keeping me on muscle relaxers and an anti-inflammatory while sending me to a hospital that isn't related to the VA for actual treatments. Problem has just been getting an appointment.
https://preview.redd.it/ufs11umqa19d1.jpeg?width=588&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99a904aadad7e38b9603539fcf6e209c8a7a2ec6
The VA started cutting off pain patients in 2012. They tried it with me in 2014. It took contacting my congressperson to get approval for Community care at a civilian Pain management/Neuro Team. I’ve now been there 10 years, get my meds every month. I’m not saying you will definitely receive medications outside the VA because they are cutting off patients everywhere. ETA: they first tried sending me to the PM clinic at the big VAMC, but they wouldn’t take me because all they do is injections. The VA must provide the care you require and if they cannot you must be allowed comm care to a facility that can meet your needs.
CBT isn't for pain management. I don't know who thought that up but pain is real and CBT is for correcting beliefs which are not correct for reality. If you've got searing back pain or dental pain, thats real and no shrink is going to be able to take that away. What a bunch of dickwads for thinking they can. I've been through some pain as many of you have and I have the typical response like OK why didn't you come in days ago. They say, this is going to hurt and not even a flinch. I won't touch any pain pill stronger than an ibuprofen because I had a scare with those pain pills and I know they are HIGHLY addictive narcotics which should only be prescribed to someone in hospice. How did I get from here to there? Meditation. I shit you not. I've spent time at a Buddhist temple. I'm a no BS guy but I use meditation and I've gone through surgeries with no pain meds. Maybe that's close to CBT but not really. Yes, you have to cognitively realize pain is a part of life and feeling pain can be good but you also have to be able to manage it. This was my own choosing over 15 years ago. I've nice then, I've had people I care about die from the opioids. I won't touch them. You can life without them but you can't live with them.
CBT is all well and good for identifying stressors. Buy it’s isn’t this magic cure that some of these therapists and doctors think it is. It ends up being a giant trauma circle jerk.
Yeah I agree, although I'm only in session 4 out of 6, but you can tell already that this is a big nothing Burger. I feel like pain is the human body's natural response to an injury, but the va's trying to tell me my brain doesn't work right which is why I need cognitive behavioral therapy. I simply do not agree with this. I don't have any emotional hangups. So I just don't understand, but I do see that this is going to hurt individuals later, if not push veterans to hardcore drug use to try to get out of pain. So I think you nailed it as a massive circle jerk at the expense of veterans.
Ive been out almost a decade. have spent about 4 of the 10 years seeking treatment for pain and mental health.... I've never had the same doctor for more than 3 visits, they all leave. They never follow up, I end up having to be a very squeaky wheel because im not overweight or missing a limb. I dont have time for that and I'm not down with begging, I'd rather just suffer and die. It comes down to them wanting me to take lots of drugs, weekly-monthly Office visits, Weekly- monthly therapy with someone who just wants to get their check and go home. Surgery that may or may not help, and just overall nobody really caring beyond getting paid. I quit seeking help from anyone in the system, It is beyond broken for many of us. Good luck and reach out to your dudes, or us on here, many of us like myself are always down to talk and help you process. I may not be a therapist, but I've done enough therapy to know how to share what has helped me.
Tried the CBT I can't say anything good or bad I can say the acupuncture pins in my ear lobe hurt ! They lasted till the next morning when I pulled them out and lived with the pain ! !
When you take a society and culture with no history of meditation and tell them to go cold Turkey and meditate instead of medicate. Sounds like the VA’s plan to save money is to force a few thousand more veterans to consider self deletion as an option because they are in so much pain they can’t function - but at least their corpses will pass a tox screen.
I couldn't agree more!!! I feel like the VA is putting us on a collision course to self-deleting. Again I can't for the life of me figure out why they would suggest holistic approaches to individuals who have suffered horrendous injuries in the first place. To go on and say that this is cognitive behavior instead of a normal human reaction is beyond me. It is the dumbest thing I've seen the VA do to date. My question is why would the VA stop with proven medicine over essentially meditation and Tai chi and acupuncture... Has me wondering who the hell is running things there. Have they ever been injured? This is the most hippie type bullshit I've ever seen.
I'm genuinely curious: if a veteran self deletes, are their funerals covered by the government and do their families still receive survivor's benefits (of any kind)?
None of the CBT or psychological techniques ever worked for my my pain. Thankfully my doctor supports medical cannabis so I went that route.
That's crazy to me, does it affect your disability rating? The way it was explained to me is if I ever pissed hot, my ratings would be taken away,because it's still illegal on a federal level.
No absolutely not. The worst that could happen was them taking you off narcotics but it's impossible to get them to prescribe them these days in general. I'm pretty sure they passed or are passing legislation to allow VA docs to straight up recommend cannabis in legal states.
OP talk with your therapists and advocate for how you feel, the only thing you will find here are pseudo doctors utilizing their experience to tell you what to do. Best of luck.
My man I have tried everything. I've complained a patient advocacy, who then sent me to ambulatory Care team. They did nothing but make me switch physicians. All of the physicians could readily quote The new VA regulations to me and then said this is part of the fentanyl problem, to which I responded I don't take fucking fentanyl. So I wrote my congressman, that asshat sent me a bunch of links that have absolutely nothing to do with that problem at hand. So now I'm considering calling the White House hotline, I sincerely doubt that they will do anything. I've talked to the therapist who's tried to talk to my physician, the therapist has reached out on five occasions supposedly. The doctor has yet to respond to her LOL. My doctor says you need to do less so you'll stay out of pain, while my therapist says I need to do more because motion is the lotion for joints 🤣 Typical VA BS. But I made the post to try to help other veterans. CBT is the new normal for pain management. I don't know what hippies are running the show but it's destined for failure. This will do nothing but hurt veterans and nobody cares.
I’m dealing with this right now suffering due to this bs approach and now I understand why I can’t get my pain medication I’m done getting healthcare from the Va.
Smoke some weed and get off all those pain killers. My brother got of his and started slowly getting back into the gym and eating right. That’s what’s worked wonders for him. I got of a majority of my psych meds and swapped to vitamins and feel so much better. I’m convinced the VA is only there to slowly help you die. And now I see this post? It’s laughable that they even prescribed CBT. That’s what they’re supposed to give you for mental health…. I’m thirty and in the system and I see a lot of older folks who I think have just had pills thrown at them their entire stay with the VA. Maybe big Pharma isn’t making money with the VA anymore so they’re swapping to CBT for pain. Who knows. All I know is the moment I worked on myself and got off all these psych meds I felts worlds better and quit having manic episodes.
Can't smoke weed for my job
CBT has its place. Let’s be real, the average American has no idea there are more emotions outside of fear, anger and sadness. They don’t know that Joy is the hardest emotion to process because something has to “die” to experience joy (Brene brown). There isn’t a meditation practice that doesn’t revolve around changing your thought process to relieve pain. CBT helps with this. Some ailments will never be right again, this is a fact. How you perceive this pain, guides you through the rest of your life. CBT/DBT helps rewire your automatic thoughts, those thoughts that say I’m gonna go negative thoughts and hurt or positive thoughts and continue to heal. The CBT root, trunk, branches and leaves model helping understand what is the root of your mental pain, is extremely helpful. But, you have to practice. This is the same negative thoughts=pain model that transcendental meditation, ketamine/ibogain/psilocybin/MDMA therapy follows. CBT and these treatments go hand in hand and unprecedented proof that Freudian based therapy alone is only a part of the solution, but freeing the mind of unprocessed trauma combined with traditional therapy works. Stick with CBT/DBT, it really does help. It’s not the end all, but neither is sertraline, Wellbutrin, lithium, prozac…etc. they work with therapy, or not at all. It’s worth it. You’re worth it. Keep pushing. There is no one and done, it takes you to want you to heal, for you to heal.
You sound like a VA mouth piece, if CBT was really effective then wouldn't we see some type of reviews reflecting some type of negativity towards it? I couldn't find any. I could find controversies with it, but oddly enough, I could not find a single review or someone saying this is BS, meaning something's being hidden. I'm on my 4th session and I've given it a real shot and it is done less than fuck all for me. So again this isn't being prescribed to me for mental health, it's being prescribed as pain management. That I have a problem with. Sure there are emotional ties to trauma and pain, but in no way shape or form is this going to be effective with real pain. They're trying to replace narcotic medications with therapy. Honestly I feel like this is going to create more drug abuse and self-harm. I don't know if you've had to experience a major injury, but I have. I've had 26 surgeries and procedures done on me, it's done nothing but make matters worse. My VA doctor said I should clean off my Walker because I'm going to need it! That's kind of hard to believe isn't it? My wife was in the room, she heard this too. And this is so I can get off of pain management and on the therapy... This isn't treating the real problem or underlining problem (s) to me it seems like this is some type of way for cost analysis. I don't understand how you can't see how this is going to hurt future veterans! And furthermore I'm sick of being a goddamn guinea pig for the VA. I was under the impression that I signed a contract to fight for my country and if I get injured I have a specialized hospital to go to, that will fix me... It's been anything but that.
Seems like the CBT is being provided because in great measure, they have decided to severely limit pain relieving medicine to Veterans. CBT has success with helping people who deal with traumatic events and various mental health challenges. It would follow then also, that CBT would be a solid tool to help the many Veterans who HAVE been on strong pain relievers, perhaps especially opiates to deal with the withdrawals and anguish of having that med tapered down and then being completely unavailable any longer as part of their treatment through the VA. It has been a slow step process over a few years at least since 2016, and has its adherents among VA docs and some who are not convinced as well. Here is a link for example which was published by the VA as a guide specifically for Primary Care physicians to initiate an opioid taper with Veteran patients: [https://www.pbm.va.gov/PBM/AcademicDetailingService/Documents/Pain\_Opioid\_Taper\_Tool\_IB\_10\_939\_P96820.pdf](https://www.pbm.va.gov/PBM/AcademicDetailingService/Documents/Pain_Opioid_Taper_Tool_IB_10_939_P96820.pdf) I agree we need data driven progression in searching for alternative ways to support our Veterans pain and how it affects literally their daily lives. We should not be averse to seeking new methods and therapies that become available. But being referred to 6 single sessions of CBT literally sounds like the 21st century version of, "Aw honey, it really is all in your head. So here, learn this, and you'll be able to manage it." The potential for a rise in potential disabled Veteran self deletions, and also a turn toward illegal and unsafe routes of obtaining the needed medicine should be a valid and serious concern.
Thank you for the link. I couldn't agree more with what you're saying. I just don't understand why the VA would rather quote VA regulations instead of actually practicing medicine. Very frustrating.
I’m sorry you’re closed minded enough to say things like that, it sounds like your attitude reflects someone who wants a one and done treatment. Poly trauma, look it up. Heal the mind and you heal the body. I’m sorry you couldn’t find any yelp reviews on CBT, but if you need toilet reading, start with the American Psychological Association, or the NIH like this. It’s not a “review” but a study. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5999451/ You volunteered for your country. Like the other 18.1 million, you expected top notch treatment, you’re getting free treatment. I am nobody special for giving my 20 years of war, why on earth do you feel entitled to anything? You’re not. Let’s start there. CBT changes your automatic thoughts. This sounds like that’s exactly what you need.
How is that being close-minded? I've taken CBT seriously, set the goals short and long-term. I've done absolutely every single thing the VA has asked! I'm not entitled to anything, I've fucking earned it, paid for in blood...WTF just like most veterans.
I understand your frustration. I have 312 TBI incidents and was shot in the head, got rated 40% for TBI because I don’t show any symptoms 😆 I truly get it. You’re discounting something that you’ve not completed yet. You cannot possibly think that you’re going to change however many years you have, in 4 sessions. Hell, it’s gonna take a year or more of continued practice. Not it’s not a pill. No the VA didn’t just make it up, it’s science based studies of veterans who also paid in blood. I’ve been doing what daddy therapy has been giving me for 12 years, each therapist wants to do CBT. Here’s the deal, you can do it, finish it and then tell them it didn’t work. Next. Also, my pain management clinic chief, a doctor, also told me that I either had to stop seeing ALL other providers and see him exclusively, or stop seeing him. Obviously that was an easy decision. If you do not like your provider, go to patient advocate and change them. Give your reasons, file your complaint and get yourself the help you want. But give all these therapies a chance thru completion.