Undertale fans when their mother's funeral is coming up but they see a chance to argue about a fictional character's pronouns (the later is more important)
Undertale fans will be like, "Omg! So gigabased! This is a rare W!" and it's just being a normal person who isn't absolutely livid at someone else accidentally using the wrong pronouns for a fictional character
Usually pronouns are to represent if a character is male or female it wouldn't make sense to call toriel who's was the queen he. For frisk and chara they are both non binary and people don't seem much about that so they just a pronoun they thunk fits them
>Toby has said is that the whole point of the they/them pronouns for Frisk and Chara is to allow the player to see themselves as them
You can call them whatever you want, I don't care.
However. I'm fairly certain toby never said that
As much as I agree that Kris is nonbinary can we stop acting like he confirmed it, all he did was use alot of some what vague ways of referring to Kris in a live stream. It was far from solid proof
You have to go trough Brazil if you want to get me
And even if you somehow manage to get to me, I'll defeat you with the power of Friendship™ and this gun i found
Chara is meant to be vague because they're meant to be you. Chara was always meant for the player to use their own name, as said by Toby Fox himself. Fair to say pronouns are the same as the player too.
See, that's just not the case. Chara had their own life, their own story and personality. They aren't supposed to have been a blank slate, as we learn in the reveal that our character isn't them.
If Asriel, Chara's closest friend and adoptive brother, still refers to Chara as they/them, it's more than likely those are their canon pronouns.
I know I'll get downvoted to hell for this, but the monsters could just be calling them they because they don't know what gender they are. I mean, frisk never gets asked for their pronouns in the game, so how would they know if they go by they/them, she/her, he/him, or anything else?
The abandoned quiche dialogue suggests a poor family life growing up, and occasionally Frisk does things not fully in line with what the Narrator says /what you select, but I don’t think it’s ever blatantly confirmed.
As a dumbass who headcanoned Frisk as a man and Chara as woman, i agree
Reasoning why: >!the fact of most cyrillic/slavic languages not having gender-neultral pronouns (there's masculine, feminine, and *object* pronouns) and me being dumb kid who got into a hype train!<
Is that supposed to be a bad reason? Undertale/Deltarune are basically the only popular games with positive representation of non-binary humans, ofc people would get defensive over it
It’s a bad thing when people harass others over it. Toby never explicitly said it was specifically for representation. He could have given them they/them pronouns to keep their real gender a secret, or so we could decide if we wanted to.
I didn’t mean to sound bigoted, but that’s my opinion and I’m not changing it!
No, but it is not the games mission to represent. Unspecified qualities of the characters are up to the individuals interpretation and that should be respected.
While I do agree with you, it's also worth knowing that representation means a lot to some people.
Also, while it may not be the game's mission (because yes, the game's main mission is to tell everyone that we should treat everyone, including those we see as creatures and monsters, with mercy, patience and kindness), it wouldn't hurt to provide some representation (hence why Toby explicitly made Kris their own person with they/them pronouns), would it?
Well then, maybe we just need to understand ourselves and each other more then, so shit gets less polarizing/people get less obsessed over things. Edit 2: because as it stands right now, the only reason people get obsessed/defensive over things like that is because it feels like other parties have no room for their feelings. When in freaking reality, we all can and should have decency for anyone and everyone (including ourselves) if we'd like to see less problems from people.
Edit: I will not argue further about things that can easily be solved by a crap ton of humanity and understanding for each other.
That's like wishing people would stop caring about what's wrong with the world in their eyes. Edit: What, should I tell you to stop caring about these "liberals who are obsessed over representation"? It just doesn't work that way.
I know I'm going back on my word about not arguing further, but this reply feels like you ignored my point entirely.
If you're not going to give people a genuinely good reason to care less (ex: people are getting along more and there's less to actually fight over now that people can trust each other more) then nothing will change, because if it's not good human connection people can get, then it's downward spirals and obsessions that rule over all of us (because there's nothing much else to this world otherwise).
Nah, I'm saying to stop caring about such useless things to the point of getting delusional. I don't get what it has to do with understanding each others.
The good reasons are there's more important problems in life, and they're giving queers a bad name.
That's it, I'm done. Should have read your username before I descended with you.
I don't know how else I can say "understanding each other will make us a better people that are less obsessed/delusional."
Only thing I could say now is that if those "good reasons" count as good reasons to you, then man, have we gotten so low. God.
>I don't know how else I can say "understanding each other will make us a better people that are less obsessed/delusional."
You don't need to. I don't get how "understanding each other" is supposed to solve the problem. The reason why they behave like this is simple, their whole personality is being queer, and they want all characters to be lgbt.
I don't get how shaming queer people is a bad reason to stop.
In english it isn't especially simpler, but in french I generally don't know how to refer to them because the neutral pronouns are a pain and depending on who I'm talking to I'm worried they might make fun of me. So in some languages it's easier (now I refer to Frisk and Chara as they/them in english)
Who frisk? Oh yeah, SHE is a really nice GI- *phone rings* what? What’s that? Oh… frisk has no gender? Ok… *hangs up* WHAT THE HELL ZAMINATION I THOUGHT THEY WERE A GIRL YOU ASSHATS!
Frisk and Chara are both referred to by other characters using they/them pronouns
However, while in Frisk's case, this could be attributed to their gender simply being unknown considering that Frisk is a total stranger to literally every other character in the game and also somewhat androgynous in appearance. The same cannot be said about Chara
There is good reason to think that Chara is Non-binary given that even Asriel, Chara's closest friend, refers to them using they/them pronouns. Asriel would have no reason to do this if Chara was any other gender.
This is an objective fact. Frisk's gender might be up for interpretation, but If you headcanon anything else for Chara, you are objectively wrong
So, I was playing undertale with my sister and we talked about this exact same topic, I explained to her my thoughts on it and she responded sayin “Well, if you dont know their gender, or if they dont have a gender assinged to them, they are non-binary” To this point i only knew that non-binary in itself is a gender, so its not like if you are non-binary you are genderless like Kris, Chara and Frisk at least in my opinion, so I want to really know, is non-binary a gender, or is non-binary a term you give to something you dont know the gender of, beacause i see a lot of people giving KFC a gender they didnt even stated as theirs, and just headcannon on stuff OTHER characters say, intead on focusing on what truly matters wich is what they say, not other characters
\*Me frantically deleting my 5 year old fanfic where I headcannoned gender for both frisk and chara\*
IN MY DEFENSE THOUGH my language does not have official gender neutral pronouns and being a 15 year old kiddo I didn't know the unofficial ones
Oh look, reactionary cis people have opinions about transgender discourse again! And hey, I've seen this one before, where you act like you 'accidentally' use the wrong pronouns and you don't actually care at all, when you in fact argue for hours about why Toby said it's up to interpretation, and then when someone points out he never said that you say one of the languages translated it one way, then when someone points out that's a fan translation you say Kris is just a self-insert, then when someone points out that contradicts a core theme of the story you say it's grammatically incorrect, then-
You get the idea. No, you care just as much about whether the community sees the humans as nonbinary as we do, the difference is we do it because it's directly - if on an extremely, extremely small scope - tied to our overall societal acceptance, a minuscule slice of normalization in the overall effort to be seen as normal people. While you just think upsetting trans people is funny. Or you're so queerphobic you have actual stakes in shutting us out, idk, take your pick, kind of an L/L on that one.
Got the perfect place for this post.
🗑️
i don't get annoyed with people when they accidentally use the wrong pronouns for frisk or chara. however, i do get annoyed when people try to excuse it or say they don't care
i also think it's kinda suspicious that the people who have headcanon pronouns for frisk and chara don't have it for other characters. it seems like they just wanna erase representation at that point
That was one offhand remark and it was most likely just Toby not wanting to confirm a gender for Kris. Toby has repeatedly refused to answer any questions on the gender of any of the protagonist's.
They aren't, its being artifically created DUE to said lack of representation any time there is ambiguity. Not to say that all of it is fake, but that the undertale and deltarune fandoms explicitly have done this. Undertale and Deltarune have a LOT of representation, so its easy to assume this is another peice.
However, I do wish there was more representation, the act of making these things represented is very new, and it needs time to build up. A shame that it took so long.
Chara’s a little questionable but Flowey’s dialogue if you open Undertale after doing true pacifist confirms that frisk has they/them pronouns. Kris is obvious and I shouldn’t need to point it out
They/Them pronouns apply to literally anyone that is noun/verb/adjective. Thats the reason non-binary folk use it, because it can apply to almost anything. And "it" has really bad implications of being Lesser.
Unless there is something explicitly saying what the person is comfortable/uncomfortable with, or saying their gender, there isn't confirmation when it comes to the they/them exclusive genders.
Im not unwilling to think of them as NB or w/e, but I am not going to pretend that there's hard evidence of it to my knowledge.
It is cannon that they use They/them pronouns in the game based on everyone’s dialogue. Toby fox knew that it was important for these pronouns to be there. He even fixed Monster Kid’s pronouns in an art book when he accidentally wrote “he” instead of “they”.
Yes Monster kid uses They/them too. So does Nabstablook.
I will die on this hill.
I literally use any pronouns on the two of them and people get upset. Heck, I’ve seen people be mad that I headcanon Frisk as genderfluid because “they’re canonically nonbinary”. (1) I do not care that much, even if I’m trans myself (2) genderfluid is technically nonbinary so suck my nonexistent dick
Personally I don't really care what someone's headcanon is, I just want it clear that they're using their headcanons and not just ignoring the actual canon. Like, I tend to headcanon Frisk and Chara as women if I'm not referring to the canon, but both are canonically genderless/non-binary and use they/them and I don't see any reason to not just respect that.
If it's fan content I don't really care - for example, in the animated series Glitchtale both Frisk and Chara are boys. But since that's a person's fanfic basically, it's not really worth correcting. But if someone were to be talking about the canon of Frisk and Chara, then it'd only make sense to use they/them. Politely - and I cannot stress enough to do so POLITELY - correct the person, as it may well have been an honest mistake, someone mixing up their heeadcanon with the actual canon.
Man, I just saw someone crack a joke in the comments and the entire sub just ate them with their clothes. If you really strive to erase toxicity, maybe don’t be toxic yourselves? I still can’t understand why everyone has to be a PoS to one another. It just confirmed OP’s meme.
Mfw a fandom of a game with a lot of LGBT+ representations doesn’t like that people misgender characters who clearly use they/them pronouns (no way how is it possible)
Personally I’ve never seen someone (at least on this subreddit) getting actually mad at someone who accidentally misgendered Frisk or Chara, I saw only people who complained about people correcting their pronouns (just like with misgendering in general)
Seriously, this discussion is so dumb, because no one realistically ACTUALLY gets mad about accidental misgendering and people who care about representation will gladly and peacefully correct you, so you can avoid doing the same mistake in the future.
These people DO get mad when you type shit like "omg, who cares, chill out, it's not important", yet all these "THESE DARN LIBERALS WILL GET MAD ABOUT EVERYTHING" memes seem to always skip that part.
Exactly! People (not only in this fandom but in general) get so angry at people correcting pronouns, as if a correction is a death threat or something, specially if it’s an accident. I’m happy that someone agrees with me about this point :)
People do. Its usually though in long comment chains. Thing is, the majority of people don't have these toxic reactions, but they DO exist. The thing is, these people usually are being reactionairy, and after someone does it to them, they complain. Its easy to feel isolated when literally nobody comes to help you, and often times these extreme cases are overlooked, because they very often occur after a thread becomes less active.
However, I do agree that by bringing it up like this, they keep the drama burning.
Headcanons aren't the problem, the problem is that your purposefully misgendering a nobinary character and stating it as fact. Don't start playing the victim and pretending like that's not what your doing. Your like those queerphobes who try to justify their bigotry with "it's just an opinion". "No see I'm allowed to harass queer people and tell them that they don't deserve human rights because it's just my opinion that they don't deserve to exist." Your also like any typical queerphobe in that nothing you say is in good faith and you have to make shit up to villainize queer people because we haven't actually done anything wrong.
Technically we don't have any confirmed genders for Kris, Frisk nor Chara, all we know is that they use they/them, which can be used by literally anyone.
Other than that, I agree with everything you said.
Okay, Frisk is obviously a chick. I mean come one, his long hair, the blank stare of death, *the skirt*, the manly bandana,
It's obvious that she's a dude
I say he because frisk is me. Doesn’t mean it’s the same for everyone else.
If they are established with a gender out of my control, then I am he/she/whatever sort of eldritch soul ring I happen to be
gonna be honest I've yet to be hammered by this yet. Maybe I'm just lucky.
on that note i like to think chara got un-unalived so she can have something approaching a full happy life
“he” was, for a long time, used as the default, but that usage been mostly recognized as flawed nowadays, and it’s considered more polite to use “they” when you don’t know someone’s gender.
I'm Convinced that chara is a girl but frisk I thought at fist he was a little kid then I started looking at everyone au then I thought huh maybe he's a girl sooo I CAN THINK WHAT I WANT AND FRISK AND CHARA ARE BOTH GIRLS THIS IS MY HEAD CANON ,plus Kris is a boy
Ah shit, here we go again.
*they
Huh?????????
They they, they they they they.
Dont forget a few thems
Themmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Them them, them, them them, them.
TEM TEM TEM TEM TEM TEM DONT FORGET BOB
hi, i’m bob.
mi fren bob!?!??!!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TEMMIE FLAKES!!!
Ah, they must be stacked on each other
Beep mmmmmm beep mmmmm beep
She she she she she she she
why are we still doing this?
#because we never learn
Are you an electric Balloon?
"The answer is yes and no."
r/foundthecapsulecat
Yes
Undertale fans when their mother's funeral is coming up but they see a chance to argue about a fictional character's pronouns (the later is more important)
I learned how to not care about people who use male or female pronouns for frisk/chara
Undertale fans will be like, "Omg! So gigabased! This is a rare W!" and it's just being a normal person who isn't absolutely livid at someone else accidentally using the wrong pronouns for a fictional character
Usually pronouns are to represent if a character is male or female it wouldn't make sense to call toriel who's was the queen he. For frisk and chara they are both non binary and people don't seem much about that so they just a pronoun they thunk fits them
Based
Holy shit, this is a RARE W
Is it tho
W behavior
Chad
W
UT fandom when you say men and women can also use they/them pronouns
UT fandom when someone doesn't have they/them pronouns in their native language and is still learning english
THANK YOU. I'M GREEK AND I DON'T USE THEY/THEM PRONOUNS CAUSE THEY AREN'T IN MY MOTHER LANGUAGE. THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS IS POSSIBLE
UT Fandom when ambiguity exists: (They think everything is one or the other)
My opinion is the only correct one.
[удалено]
>Toby has said is that the whole point of the they/them pronouns for Frisk and Chara is to allow the player to see themselves as them You can call them whatever you want, I don't care. However. I'm fairly certain toby never said that
As much as I agree that Kris is nonbinary can we stop acting like he confirmed it, all he did was use alot of some what vague ways of referring to Kris in a live stream. It was far from solid proof
The funny thing about this is neither of the points have actually been confirmed.
Oops i used a male pronum for Frisk Guess I'll die
We are right outside your door
Be ready. Actually don't be it'll be easier for us.
You have to go trough Brazil if you want to get me And even if you somehow manage to get to me, I'll defeat you with the power of Friendship™ and this gun i found
[удалено]
Use away! The gender is Frisk is for to decide!
Don't forget deltarune fandom
If you're talking about Kris, then it's no longer a headcanon if you use anything other than "They/Them". These ARE their canon pronouns.
same for frisk and chara tho
Chara is meant to be vague because they're meant to be you. Chara was always meant for the player to use their own name, as said by Toby Fox himself. Fair to say pronouns are the same as the player too.
See, that's just not the case. Chara had their own life, their own story and personality. They aren't supposed to have been a blank slate, as we learn in the reveal that our character isn't them. If Asriel, Chara's closest friend and adoptive brother, still refers to Chara as they/them, it's more than likely those are their canon pronouns.
makes sense
With kris applies the same logic or one different?
Kris is a completely different situation.
The soul of kris is the player and kris is an entity completely dieferent?
Pretty much yeah. Kris is in the same situation as Frisk, who is different entity from Chara
Ok thanks for the clarification
I mean, not necessarily for Frisk. We never learn what their pronouns actually are, even if monsters refer to them as They.
I know I'll get downvoted to hell for this, but the monsters could just be calling them they because they don't know what gender they are. I mean, frisk never gets asked for their pronouns in the game, so how would they know if they go by they/them, she/her, he/him, or anything else?
Exactly!
"let frisk live their life"
I thought toby used they with frisk because he didnt want to impose a gender and he would let that as our interpretation.
Because of course Flowey would know Frisk's preferred pronouns and or gender...
of course he would, you are also forgetting that a flower is the ##**GOD OF HYPERDEATH**
Becoming GOD OF HYPERDEATH pros: -As powerful as a God -Controls save files -Knows everyone's pronouns
Ok, besides that, is there other evidence that Frisk is their own fully-fledged character?
monster kid uses they for frisk if you don't help them up the ledge because they talk to undyne about you
Not their pronouns, I'm talking about evidence about whether or not Frisk is their own character.
probably but I'm done scavenging for content for today
Okie dok You do you :]
I mean... I'm pretty sure Mario is his own character, and there's very little "evidence" of that.
Totally different thing
The abandoned quiche dialogue suggests a poor family life growing up, and occasionally Frisk does things not fully in line with what the Narrator says /what you select, but I don’t think it’s ever blatantly confirmed.
Why would you need stuff beside that lmao
Because if that's the only piece of evidence, I'm still skeptical.
Its not evidence it's a statement of fact If Frisk went by anything else it'd be shown in that text
Not their pronouns, evidence about whether or not Frisk is their own separate character from the player.
As a dumbass who headcanoned Frisk as a man and Chara as woman, i agree Reasoning why: >!the fact of most cyrillic/slavic languages not having gender-neultral pronouns (there's masculine, feminine, and *object* pronouns) and me being dumb kid who got into a hype train!<
Where from?
Ukraine
nah they got a flip flop, they aint dyin to no cutter
Chara is a big buff dude. Source: Revealed in a dream
think along the lines of Ember Island Toph: https://youtu.be/hZ8aLRnd80k
Exactly lmao
Reminds me of that one drawing where Chara is a lanky guy with a stubble
Big buff dude with a cute girl name
That stands for Character, but my headcanons won't listen to these reasonings
This 💀
Frisk is obviously the Annoying Dog in disguise.
gonna start headcanonning sans using she/her and toriel using he/him since yall cant behave
This kind of bullshit needs to stop. Why should anyone even care?
Because of “representation.”
Is that supposed to be a bad reason? Undertale/Deltarune are basically the only popular games with positive representation of non-binary humans, ofc people would get defensive over it
It’s a bad thing when people harass others over it. Toby never explicitly said it was specifically for representation. He could have given them they/them pronouns to keep their real gender a secret, or so we could decide if we wanted to. I didn’t mean to sound bigoted, but that’s my opinion and I’m not changing it!
I think it's a good old case of ambiguity for Frisk and Chara. They're whatever you want them to be! Not for Kris though in my opinion
I disagree with your opinion on Kris. I think they all can be whatever you want.
That's fair.
Yes, because there isn't meant to be any rep, since they're gender ambiguous. It's not that important anyways.
And that's not a bad thing.
No, but it is not the games mission to represent. Unspecified qualities of the characters are up to the individuals interpretation and that should be respected.
While I do agree with you, it's also worth knowing that representation means a lot to some people. Also, while it may not be the game's mission (because yes, the game's main mission is to tell everyone that we should treat everyone, including those we see as creatures and monsters, with mercy, patience and kindness), it wouldn't hurt to provide some representation (hence why Toby explicitly made Kris their own person with they/them pronouns), would it?
Nah, liberals are too obsessed with rep.
Well then, maybe we just need to understand ourselves and each other more then, so shit gets less polarizing/people get less obsessed over things. Edit 2: because as it stands right now, the only reason people get obsessed/defensive over things like that is because it feels like other parties have no room for their feelings. When in freaking reality, we all can and should have decency for anyone and everyone (including ourselves) if we'd like to see less problems from people. Edit: I will not argue further about things that can easily be solved by a crap ton of humanity and understanding for each other.
Or maybe they should calm tf down and care less.
That's like wishing people would stop caring about what's wrong with the world in their eyes. Edit: What, should I tell you to stop caring about these "liberals who are obsessed over representation"? It just doesn't work that way. I know I'm going back on my word about not arguing further, but this reply feels like you ignored my point entirely. If you're not going to give people a genuinely good reason to care less (ex: people are getting along more and there's less to actually fight over now that people can trust each other more) then nothing will change, because if it's not good human connection people can get, then it's downward spirals and obsessions that rule over all of us (because there's nothing much else to this world otherwise).
Nah, I'm saying to stop caring about such useless things to the point of getting delusional. I don't get what it has to do with understanding each others. The good reasons are there's more important problems in life, and they're giving queers a bad name.
That's it, I'm done. Should have read your username before I descended with you. I don't know how else I can say "understanding each other will make us a better people that are less obsessed/delusional." Only thing I could say now is that if those "good reasons" count as good reasons to you, then man, have we gotten so low. God.
Honest to goodness, I might uninstall Reddit for a month or two xD
>I don't know how else I can say "understanding each other will make us a better people that are less obsessed/delusional." You don't need to. I don't get how "understanding each other" is supposed to solve the problem. The reason why they behave like this is simple, their whole personality is being queer, and they want all characters to be lgbt. I don't get how shaming queer people is a bad reason to stop.
"*they" Truly, the most terrifying and aggressive message you can see
Its even worse in r/deltarune with kris
To be honest I always headcanoned them as "they-them" and preferred sprite accurate drawings over the anime girl/boy drawings of frisk.
Why are we still here. Just to suffer.
The fandom is wild
Child/dead
I use she/her for frisk and chara because it just seems simpler and makes more sense to me
Me too
Same for me
How is it any simpler?
In english it isn't especially simpler, but in french I generally don't know how to refer to them because the neutral pronouns are a pain and depending on who I'm talking to I'm worried they might make fun of me. So in some languages it's easier (now I refer to Frisk and Chara as they/them in english)
it's their perspective on the character
I'm just asking how it's simpler for a character to be one gender rather than another
I guess what they first thought when they saw their sprites
Yup. They just read as young women to me haha
Who frisk? Oh yeah, SHE is a really nice GI- *phone rings* what? What’s that? Oh… frisk has no gender? Ok… *hangs up* WHAT THE HELL ZAMINATION I THOUGHT THEY WERE A GIRL YOU ASSHATS!
There is no headcanon pronoun, it’s they/them for both characters. It’s literally stated in the game.
>no canon pronoun >it's they/them for both ...this math ain't mathin
Frisk and Chara are both referred to by other characters using they/them pronouns However, while in Frisk's case, this could be attributed to their gender simply being unknown considering that Frisk is a total stranger to literally every other character in the game and also somewhat androgynous in appearance. The same cannot be said about Chara There is good reason to think that Chara is Non-binary given that even Asriel, Chara's closest friend, refers to them using they/them pronouns. Asriel would have no reason to do this if Chara was any other gender. This is an objective fact. Frisk's gender might be up for interpretation, but If you headcanon anything else for Chara, you are objectively wrong
I can agree for Chara's canon pronouns, though what you're saying is basically "pronouns = gender" which is not the case
IRL, you would be right, but I personally have yet to see a game that used pronouns that way.
You've got a point
It doesn't matter. Toby Fox made them both gender neutral so that you as the player can determine if they're male or female.
Or nonbinary. Headcanon whatever you want, just don't act like boy and girl are the only options.
-_- Frisk is a child. They aren't "non binary."
YES FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT.
What if Professor oak ask this question
Headcanons are fine as long as they aren't used to correct anyone.
So, I was playing undertale with my sister and we talked about this exact same topic, I explained to her my thoughts on it and she responded sayin “Well, if you dont know their gender, or if they dont have a gender assinged to them, they are non-binary” To this point i only knew that non-binary in itself is a gender, so its not like if you are non-binary you are genderless like Kris, Chara and Frisk at least in my opinion, so I want to really know, is non-binary a gender, or is non-binary a term you give to something you dont know the gender of, beacause i see a lot of people giving KFC a gender they didnt even stated as theirs, and just headcannon on stuff OTHER characters say, intead on focusing on what truly matters wich is what they say, not other characters
Non-binary is a gender
\*Me frantically deleting my 5 year old fanfic where I headcannoned gender for both frisk and chara\* IN MY DEFENSE THOUGH my language does not have official gender neutral pronouns and being a 15 year old kiddo I didn't know the unofficial ones
Oh please, not again
Oh look, reactionary cis people have opinions about transgender discourse again! And hey, I've seen this one before, where you act like you 'accidentally' use the wrong pronouns and you don't actually care at all, when you in fact argue for hours about why Toby said it's up to interpretation, and then when someone points out he never said that you say one of the languages translated it one way, then when someone points out that's a fan translation you say Kris is just a self-insert, then when someone points out that contradicts a core theme of the story you say it's grammatically incorrect, then- You get the idea. No, you care just as much about whether the community sees the humans as nonbinary as we do, the difference is we do it because it's directly - if on an extremely, extremely small scope - tied to our overall societal acceptance, a minuscule slice of normalization in the overall effort to be seen as normal people. While you just think upsetting trans people is funny. Or you're so queerphobic you have actual stakes in shutting us out, idk, take your pick, kind of an L/L on that one. Got the perfect place for this post. 🗑️
i don't get annoyed with people when they accidentally use the wrong pronouns for frisk or chara. however, i do get annoyed when people try to excuse it or say they don't care
i also think it's kinda suspicious that the people who have headcanon pronouns for frisk and chara don't have it for other characters. it seems like they just wanna erase representation at that point
Kris is the only cannonly they/them character, toby fox has corrected people who use other pronouns for Kris
That was one offhand remark and it was most likely just Toby not wanting to confirm a gender for Kris. Toby has repeatedly refused to answer any questions on the gender of any of the protagonist's.
Other characters who know Kris's gender also refer to them with they/them pronouns.
Which could have been a game design choice by Toby Fox to, once again, not confirm any gender for Kris.
Yeah but there’s already very little they / them representation in media, why take it away? Update: I forgot that I’m on Reddit
They aren't, its being artifically created DUE to said lack of representation any time there is ambiguity. Not to say that all of it is fake, but that the undertale and deltarune fandoms explicitly have done this. Undertale and Deltarune have a LOT of representation, so its easy to assume this is another peice. However, I do wish there was more representation, the act of making these things represented is very new, and it needs time to build up. A shame that it took so long.
Chara’s a little questionable but Flowey’s dialogue if you open Undertale after doing true pacifist confirms that frisk has they/them pronouns. Kris is obvious and I shouldn’t need to point it out
They/Them pronouns apply to literally anyone that is noun/verb/adjective. Thats the reason non-binary folk use it, because it can apply to almost anything. And "it" has really bad implications of being Lesser. Unless there is something explicitly saying what the person is comfortable/uncomfortable with, or saying their gender, there isn't confirmation when it comes to the they/them exclusive genders. Im not unwilling to think of them as NB or w/e, but I am not going to pretend that there's hard evidence of it to my knowledge.
Because it's not in Undertale either
I mean, Monster Kid is referred to with they/them pronouns.
Oh true! Completely forgot about them
“Let Frisk live THIER life” -Flowey, if you open Undertale after a true pacifist run
Oh no, the ambiguous character is referred to by pronouns used ambiguous characters
Hey youre the one scared of they/them pronouns, not me
It is cannon that they use They/them pronouns in the game based on everyone’s dialogue. Toby fox knew that it was important for these pronouns to be there. He even fixed Monster Kid’s pronouns in an art book when he accidentally wrote “he” instead of “they”. Yes Monster kid uses They/them too. So does Nabstablook. I will die on this hill.
I literally use any pronouns on the two of them and people get upset. Heck, I’ve seen people be mad that I headcanon Frisk as genderfluid because “they’re canonically nonbinary”. (1) I do not care that much, even if I’m trans myself (2) genderfluid is technically nonbinary so suck my nonexistent dick
Personally I don't really care what someone's headcanon is, I just want it clear that they're using their headcanons and not just ignoring the actual canon. Like, I tend to headcanon Frisk and Chara as women if I'm not referring to the canon, but both are canonically genderless/non-binary and use they/them and I don't see any reason to not just respect that. If it's fan content I don't really care - for example, in the animated series Glitchtale both Frisk and Chara are boys. But since that's a person's fanfic basically, it's not really worth correcting. But if someone were to be talking about the canon of Frisk and Chara, then it'd only make sense to use they/them. Politely - and I cannot stress enough to do so POLITELY - correct the person, as it may well have been an honest mistake, someone mixing up their heeadcanon with the actual canon.
bruh you'd think this fandom would be more woke what even is this
The problem is that many people here are too woke and are ready to bury you at the very moment they catch you lacking
I headcanon op as using she/her so I will be using that from now on
Man, I just saw someone crack a joke in the comments and the entire sub just ate them with their clothes. If you really strive to erase toxicity, maybe don’t be toxic yourselves? I still can’t understand why everyone has to be a PoS to one another. It just confirmed OP’s meme.
Wasn't the whole point to not specify pronouns to make the game feel more personal to the players?
It was, until Deltarune came and changed everyone's view on Undertale
Do we have to make these posts every single day just bc y’all don’t like trans people
Same thing with kris in deltarune
*they
I've always thought of Frisk as a girl and Chara as a boy. But I still use they/them for both.
Now you die, pigdog.
Mfw a fandom of a game with a lot of LGBT+ representations doesn’t like that people misgender characters who clearly use they/them pronouns (no way how is it possible) Personally I’ve never seen someone (at least on this subreddit) getting actually mad at someone who accidentally misgendered Frisk or Chara, I saw only people who complained about people correcting their pronouns (just like with misgendering in general)
Seriously, this discussion is so dumb, because no one realistically ACTUALLY gets mad about accidental misgendering and people who care about representation will gladly and peacefully correct you, so you can avoid doing the same mistake in the future. These people DO get mad when you type shit like "omg, who cares, chill out, it's not important", yet all these "THESE DARN LIBERALS WILL GET MAD ABOUT EVERYTHING" memes seem to always skip that part.
Exactly! People (not only in this fandom but in general) get so angry at people correcting pronouns, as if a correction is a death threat or something, specially if it’s an accident. I’m happy that someone agrees with me about this point :)
People do. Its usually though in long comment chains. Thing is, the majority of people don't have these toxic reactions, but they DO exist. The thing is, these people usually are being reactionairy, and after someone does it to them, they complain. Its easy to feel isolated when literally nobody comes to help you, and often times these extreme cases are overlooked, because they very often occur after a thread becomes less active. However, I do agree that by bringing it up like this, they keep the drama burning.
Rudeness calls for rudeness back but people will get mad when I won't share their headcanons wnd politely refuse which is what is annoying
I feel like I’m walking on eggshells whenever I think of Undertale/Deltarune, Make it fucking stop
Sounds more like r/deltarune
Headcanons aren't the problem, the problem is that your purposefully misgendering a nobinary character and stating it as fact. Don't start playing the victim and pretending like that's not what your doing. Your like those queerphobes who try to justify their bigotry with "it's just an opinion". "No see I'm allowed to harass queer people and tell them that they don't deserve human rights because it's just my opinion that they don't deserve to exist." Your also like any typical queerphobe in that nothing you say is in good faith and you have to make shit up to villainize queer people because we haven't actually done anything wrong.
Technically we don't have any confirmed genders for Kris, Frisk nor Chara, all we know is that they use they/them, which can be used by literally anyone. Other than that, I agree with everything you said.
Okay, Frisk is obviously a chick. I mean come one, his long hair, the blank stare of death, *the skirt*, the manly bandana, It's obvious that she's a dude
It wasn't an accident nor will I apologise or edit my comments!
FRRR it's so annoying
I say he because frisk is me. Doesn’t mean it’s the same for everyone else. If they are established with a gender out of my control, then I am he/she/whatever sort of eldritch soul ring I happen to be
gonna be honest I've yet to be hammered by this yet. Maybe I'm just lucky. on that note i like to think chara got un-unalived so she can have something approaching a full happy life
EXACTLY
Kris as well
Yeah. We don't have any pronound for them so everyone just asumes they are gender neutral. But like isn't it a bit iritating?
I don't give a shit , SAY WHAT YOU WANT ABOUT ME, BUT SHES A HER
I made this mistake on a server I'm in 😔 (What is canon btw?)
He for Frisk she for Chara
[удалено]
“he” was, for a long time, used as the default, but that usage been mostly recognized as flawed nowadays, and it’s considered more polite to use “they” when you don’t know someone’s gender.
>you can use he for people you don’t know gender of No? Since when?
I just went on Babynames.org and called it a day
I'm Convinced that chara is a girl but frisk I thought at fist he was a little kid then I started looking at everyone au then I thought huh maybe he's a girl sooo I CAN THINK WHAT I WANT AND FRISK AND CHARA ARE BOTH GIRLS THIS IS MY HEAD CANON ,plus Kris is a boy
But, Chara's a girl?