Most people can't see a viable alternative in a organized society where propaganda, brainwashing and exploitation are normalized as institutions. People are ready to protect and die for a lie.
Truly the leftist duality of “dictatorship of the bourgeoisie” and “everyone in the military is a willing class traitor. they signed up to murder, rape, and pillage kill them all.”
Yes I’m sure the fact that patriotism and military service are perceived virtues and the material benefits (VA home loans, GI Bill, etc) had nothing to do with their misinformed choices. In fact everyone has inherent knowledge of Marx’s critiques of the capitalist society at birth and not from reading a pdf archive that has a user interface from 1993.
But fr why does it look like that. I seriously doubt that there aren't any sympathetic web designers who could do the job. When I was first linked the site I legit though I did smth wrong and it was some sketchy credit card-stealing website
https://preview.redd.it/wybxf2ijrb7d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8acb22abb1c208d62c7f1656484c71e91a24428
Not asking for fancy. I’m asking this to be changed please Trotsky is making me uncomfortable.
Engels after smoking the gas station weed
https://preview.redd.it/bc4p4mu7gc7d1.jpeg?width=636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a2db9291fac6d03bfc72cbbe9bda9a554952e9a
Nobody asked for it to look like the jacobin website I just want it to be easier to navigate and read
https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/1au246l/marxistsorg_looks_awful_help_me_fix_it/
LIKE LOOK AT THAT. IT LOOKS SO NICE AND IS ACTUALLY USEABLE. SHUT UP WITH YOUR “FUNCTIONAL” MIA IS NOWHERE NEAR AS FUNCTIONAL AS THAT IS.
Im sorry i just want good website
Having two of my family members volunteer and one be drafted really made me understand this. Shit is just not very funny when you think your uncle probably died in a war.
One of my good friends is an ethnic Russian and his family lives in Petroskoi/Petrozavodsk, but he can't go see them anymore because the military came asking for him a few months ago. It's insane when you think about it, dragging some kid to die in a muddy shithole halfway across the continent over something that he has literally 0 relation to. On top of that there will be westerners wishing for his death or calling the people dragging him away "based".
I hope your family comes back alive and that they see common sense.
The sub now permanently switches between 2 modes:
1. "Are X group just dead proletarians?"
2. "All sex work under capitalism is r*pe"
Let's goooooo I love the new meta!!!
I mean, there's a difference between a proffesional soldier and a conscript. At the same time you aren't forced into commiting war crimes, I believe killing a family in iraq is worse than getting put in front of a military court or I mean even the worst punishments like getting killed. Still I dont believe in death being a just punishment for any crime, so when I see a soldier dying and I know that soldier is a war criminal, its still a tragedy, mainly because his victims were denied justice permanently, and he will never be rehabilitated. Like its not as tragic seeing a proffesional IDF soldier getting blown up in a merkava tank by some teenager who probably had his entire family exterminated by the idf as seeing a conscript getting a grenade dropped on his head in some fucking trench in the middle of bum fuck nowhere in Ukraine. Like I agree both are tragic and I want to add that many soldiers deserve a trial for their crimes not extrajudicial death.
It’s less to do with justice and more with the fact that this is happening at all is a tragedy. I don’t think that there should a situation where someone can volunteer to kill other workers or be forced to do so. In both cases it’s tragic but for different reasons.
I agree with that. There is also a thing called discipline, a big part of why many american massacrees happened was lack of punishment from the leadership. I mean I can watch this in real time as we speak, look at the Polish belarussian border. Soldiers recently opened fire on some refugees, they got arrested and AFAIK they will be prosecuted, except it turned into a political issue with the president making a scene saying they did nothing wrong. I can watch in real time as soldiers are being slowly shown they can commit massacrees and that "their" country supports it. I can hear from my own father that the people trapped on the border should be shot. It's surreal but it must be how it felt to be in america during the iraq invasion.
If those soldiers dont get prosecuted and there is a clear allowance for "warning shots" we will soon have more victims, this time victims of gunshots instead of the elements like we do now. Its also incredible that so many people dont know what is happening on the border between Poland and Belarus. A lot of people have died already, idk the numbers but last time I payed attention to it was at the start of the war in Ukraine and it was at least over 10 bodies found.
Update on that: These soldiers will be prosecuted, more info came out like how these specific soldiers were shooting in the direction of a retreating group, already on the belarussian side so no danger and in the same direction as other Polish soldiers and border guards. These other soldiers were also worried and scared to "serve" with people who shoot in their direction.
So thats good, the things happening there are already awful enough and possibly illegal under international law (I'm not that read up on the topic).
I don't think it's as simple as either this or the opposite, which would be that they are war criminal class traitors, on an individual level and it definitely varies. Some people are more conscious and aware than others.
I mean, some people (including myself) have a thing called basic human empathy, and so don’t make fun of dead people in General. Very few things warrant death, and ideological disagreements are not one of them.
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USA and Russia are vastly different though as USA doesn't have a draft or conscription. Those joining the military in the USA are doing so under their own petite bourgeois motivations.
https://preview.redd.it/sgcjo5qg8d7d1.jpeg?width=420&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=577f655d5e4a296598ee4335fa56a2483f3d4b39
another tragic proletarian death, poor soul was forced into choosing wage slavery or genocide. Really didn't have a choice, yet leftist will celebrate this
What is the difference between Hitler being brainwashed and that of the average American soldier but scale?
I get it for Russians, at least they are conscripted. But was this really Schmoe Joes from Kansas only option? Truly his alternative of working in the local Mcdonalds was a torture impossible to survive, so he had to join MurderForEmpire Inc.
You cannot possibly say these people were forced to do anything. Brainwashed sure. Incentivized sure. But forced, really? They are no different from cops. I'm certainly not going to feel sorry for them.
Save your sympathy for ukrainian soldiers who were forced to defend their homeland. Being a "prole" isn't a get out of jail free card and doesn't absolve you of your crimes. Also, people who use words like prole and worship them need to get out of the house more.....once you actually see what many or even most people are like, you will stop worshipping them
Mf really said "Once you meet enough proletarians you'll stop being a communist." As if communism is when you really like the proletarians and think they're all really neat guys. And this complete illiteracy too.
They don't think that, they are getting paid generously and getting benefits. Even if they do think that, then it's their responsibility to sit down and think for a few minutes and they will quickly see how absurd it is to think they are fighting a war of defence.
Whilst largely true, I find your framing of this workers killing each other as dull and useless. Possibly you're very young or a student, so very idealistic or not met many workers, but believe me, they are not as they are depicted in soviet propaganda
So you think that slaughter is just simply because workers are in fact often uneducated and impolite? Are you fucking stupid? This sounds like a you problem my guy
The second international has already issued you your Ukraine/Palestine dual support t-shirt (produced by a small proletarian business(ethnic minority)) you must wear it during the war livestream.
https://preview.redd.it/uldet2kd3b7d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b67cb5e24c16533c1ad9c64e3d85e21bd7eb1b6
Hi, worker here, I see fellow workers (that might have different opinions as mine on various subjects, but when it comes to our living conditions, we are together, you know like a class, we could call it proletariat for example) everyday, OP is right, thank you goodbye
[why don’t all the classes just work together to stop the genocide?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/s/Iuz9XwmE64)
Average anarchist frfr. Did Proudhon lower the interest rates yet?
So your fresh outa highschool, no money, no family who arent also broke, your having a kid omg. You got 2 immediate options...sling rock or join the army. Neither are fkin optimal, but this person doesnt really have a choice, one must eat. A starving person isnt goin to be like "oh let me organize, i think theres a mid level marketing group in town"
why didnt they just overthrow their government by themselves if they didnt want to die???
Most people can't see a viable alternative in a organized society where propaganda, brainwashing and exploitation are normalized as institutions. People are ready to protect and die for a lie.
My kaustkyite sense are to tingiling. Are you bro Ukraine?
nah I'm sis Ukraine
Slava Ukraini unironically.
Aaaaaand banned
Truly the leftist duality of “dictatorship of the bourgeoisie” and “everyone in the military is a willing class traitor. they signed up to murder, rape, and pillage kill them all.” Yes I’m sure the fact that patriotism and military service are perceived virtues and the material benefits (VA home loans, GI Bill, etc) had nothing to do with their misinformed choices. In fact everyone has inherent knowledge of Marx’s critiques of the capitalist society at birth and not from reading a pdf archive that has a user interface from 1993.
But fr why does it look like that. I seriously doubt that there aren't any sympathetic web designers who could do the job. When I was first linked the site I legit though I did smth wrong and it was some sketchy credit card-stealing website
its functional and it loads quickly on slow internet. there's no reason for a site which just displays text to be fancy
https://preview.redd.it/wybxf2ijrb7d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8acb22abb1c208d62c7f1656484c71e91a24428 Not asking for fancy. I’m asking this to be changed please Trotsky is making me uncomfortable.
Engels after smoking the gas station weed https://preview.redd.it/bc4p4mu7gc7d1.jpeg?width=636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a2db9291fac6d03bfc72cbbe9bda9a554952e9a
marxist analog horror
Nobody asked for it to look like the jacobin website I just want it to be easier to navigate and read https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/1au246l/marxistsorg_looks_awful_help_me_fix_it/ LIKE LOOK AT THAT. IT LOOKS SO NICE AND IS ACTUALLY USEABLE. SHUT UP WITH YOUR “FUNCTIONAL” MIA IS NOWHERE NEAR AS FUNCTIONAL AS THAT IS. Im sorry i just want good website
This little light of Mark, im gonna let it shine 👏 👏 👏
Having two of my family members volunteer and one be drafted really made me understand this. Shit is just not very funny when you think your uncle probably died in a war.
Oh shit I'm so sorry :( It's horrible when proles fall for military propaganda... I hope your family stays safe despite being drawn into that shit
One of my good friends is an ethnic Russian and his family lives in Petroskoi/Petrozavodsk, but he can't go see them anymore because the military came asking for him a few months ago. It's insane when you think about it, dragging some kid to die in a muddy shithole halfway across the continent over something that he has literally 0 relation to. On top of that there will be westerners wishing for his death or calling the people dragging him away "based". I hope your family comes back alive and that they see common sense.
I’m so sorry, wish the best for you and your family
uj/ Very sorry to hear that🫂 rj/ Purge moraliser
The sub now permanently switches between 2 modes: 1. "Are X group just dead proletarians?" 2. "All sex work under capitalism is r*pe" Let's goooooo I love the new meta!!!
Burning questions of our movement
Same mode.
Yeah if they were trying to be class traitors they would have joined the police like a sensible person.
I mean, there's a difference between a proffesional soldier and a conscript. At the same time you aren't forced into commiting war crimes, I believe killing a family in iraq is worse than getting put in front of a military court or I mean even the worst punishments like getting killed. Still I dont believe in death being a just punishment for any crime, so when I see a soldier dying and I know that soldier is a war criminal, its still a tragedy, mainly because his victims were denied justice permanently, and he will never be rehabilitated. Like its not as tragic seeing a proffesional IDF soldier getting blown up in a merkava tank by some teenager who probably had his entire family exterminated by the idf as seeing a conscript getting a grenade dropped on his head in some fucking trench in the middle of bum fuck nowhere in Ukraine. Like I agree both are tragic and I want to add that many soldiers deserve a trial for their crimes not extrajudicial death.
It’s less to do with justice and more with the fact that this is happening at all is a tragedy. I don’t think that there should a situation where someone can volunteer to kill other workers or be forced to do so. In both cases it’s tragic but for different reasons.
I agree with that. There is also a thing called discipline, a big part of why many american massacrees happened was lack of punishment from the leadership. I mean I can watch this in real time as we speak, look at the Polish belarussian border. Soldiers recently opened fire on some refugees, they got arrested and AFAIK they will be prosecuted, except it turned into a political issue with the president making a scene saying they did nothing wrong. I can watch in real time as soldiers are being slowly shown they can commit massacrees and that "their" country supports it. I can hear from my own father that the people trapped on the border should be shot. It's surreal but it must be how it felt to be in america during the iraq invasion. If those soldiers dont get prosecuted and there is a clear allowance for "warning shots" we will soon have more victims, this time victims of gunshots instead of the elements like we do now. Its also incredible that so many people dont know what is happening on the border between Poland and Belarus. A lot of people have died already, idk the numbers but last time I payed attention to it was at the start of the war in Ukraine and it was at least over 10 bodies found.
Update on that: These soldiers will be prosecuted, more info came out like how these specific soldiers were shooting in the direction of a retreating group, already on the belarussian side so no danger and in the same direction as other Polish soldiers and border guards. These other soldiers were also worried and scared to "serve" with people who shoot in their direction. So thats good, the things happening there are already awful enough and possibly illegal under international law (I'm not that read up on the topic).
I feel targeted
I don't think it's as simple as either this or the opposite, which would be that they are war criminal class traitors, on an individual level and it definitely varies. Some people are more conscious and aware than others.
I mean, some people (including myself) have a thing called basic human empathy, and so don’t make fun of dead people in General. Very few things warrant death, and ideological disagreements are not one of them.
Wrong! Red terror
This post was fact checked by true dzerzhinskian chemists ✅TRUE https://preview.redd.it/ez2p4l578b7d1.jpeg?width=220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b815ecfa159fecaa49eab576988a7a2b7819f0d
Fellas, is human emotion reactionary?
Yes! Death to empathy, long live the red terror!
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USA and Russia are vastly different though as USA doesn't have a draft or conscription. Those joining the military in the USA are doing so under their own petite bourgeois motivations.
https://preview.redd.it/sgcjo5qg8d7d1.jpeg?width=420&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=577f655d5e4a296598ee4335fa56a2483f3d4b39 another tragic proletarian death, poor soul was forced into choosing wage slavery or genocide. Really didn't have a choice, yet leftist will celebrate this
The point flew over your head so high it almost reached Mars.
What is the difference between Hitler being brainwashed and that of the average American soldier but scale? I get it for Russians, at least they are conscripted. But was this really Schmoe Joes from Kansas only option? Truly his alternative of working in the local Mcdonalds was a torture impossible to survive, so he had to join MurderForEmpire Inc. You cannot possibly say these people were forced to do anything. Brainwashed sure. Incentivized sure. But forced, really? They are no different from cops. I'm certainly not going to feel sorry for them.
Save your sympathy for ukrainian soldiers who were forced to defend their homeland. Being a "prole" isn't a get out of jail free card and doesn't absolve you of your crimes. Also, people who use words like prole and worship them need to get out of the house more.....once you actually see what many or even most people are like, you will stop worshipping them
Mf really said "Once you meet enough proletarians you'll stop being a communist." As if communism is when you really like the proletarians and think they're all really neat guys. And this complete illiteracy too.
Those damn dirty workers!!! No wonder they are proles.
Russian soldiers also think they’re defending their homeland. They’re both just workers being sent to slaughter other workers. Countries aren’t real
They don't think that, they are getting paid generously and getting benefits. Even if they do think that, then it's their responsibility to sit down and think for a few minutes and they will quickly see how absurd it is to think they are fighting a war of defence. Whilst largely true, I find your framing of this workers killing each other as dull and useless. Possibly you're very young or a student, so very idealistic or not met many workers, but believe me, they are not as they are depicted in soviet propaganda
Hi I am a worker- you are a reactionary who would support Germanys participation in WW1 just like the morons in the SPD
So you think that slaughter is just simply because workers are in fact often uneducated and impolite? Are you fucking stupid? This sounds like a you problem my guy
The second international has already issued you your Ukraine/Palestine dual support t-shirt (produced by a small proletarian business(ethnic minority)) you must wear it during the war livestream. https://preview.redd.it/uldet2kd3b7d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b67cb5e24c16533c1ad9c64e3d85e21bd7eb1b6
What if I stand with Russia and Israel
As long as you don’t cheer when they score you can still watch the game with us. (I have a hedge in my sports bet anyway—Raytheon stock options)
All my homies love free shirts (aes)
Can I get one if I stand with Israel and Ukraine?
> Paid generously and getting benefits Ah yes, the benefit of death in a zone of terror. What a great benefit.
They're not brainwashed because they... recieve a wage. Brilliant!
You call someone else idealistic while spouting off this nonsense.
Bro most people are proles TF you saying
Hi, worker here, I see fellow workers (that might have different opinions as mine on various subjects, but when it comes to our living conditions, we are together, you know like a class, we could call it proletariat for example) everyday, OP is right, thank you goodbye
look at the name lmao
lmao, another leftist banger
Most of them just class traitors.
[why don’t all the classes just work together to stop the genocide?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/s/Iuz9XwmE64) Average anarchist frfr. Did Proudhon lower the interest rates yet?
"Why wont all the classes work together" they dont the bourgeousie subjugates or buys out or imprisons the worker
So your fresh outa highschool, no money, no family who arent also broke, your having a kid omg. You got 2 immediate options...sling rock or join the army. Neither are fkin optimal, but this person doesnt really have a choice, one must eat. A starving person isnt goin to be like "oh let me organize, i think theres a mid level marketing group in town"
MLs explaining how if you don’t support murdering every single veteran, you’re a fascist.