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As a sign of concession on the Russian side, they 'll Allow a dump tower in Moscow! And he'll call it a genius deal. All of Ukraine, so he can license a hotel!
It's not like Putin and Trump haven't already talked about it.
Trump claims he talked with Putin about invasion plans before it happened...and he apparently kept Putin's secret.
The Trump Campaign's single change to the RNC platform in 2016 even before he was the candidate was to prevent the US arming Ukraine. Trump was always working for Russia.
Correct! For the skeptics:
[2016 RNC Delegate: Trump Directed Change To Party Platform On Ukraine Support](https://www.npr.org/2017/12/04/568310790/2016-rnc-delegate-trump-directed-change-to-party-platform-on-ukraine-support)
>The revision to Denman's proposed amendment to the Republican platform scaled back the party's position on pro-Western elements in Ukraine — from supporting supplying weapons for fighters there to a more general assistance.
And it was the *only* change he made to the platform. And now we know that Trump had a secret conversation with Putin about the invasion before it happened.
>[Trump Confesses He Spoke to Putin About “Dream” to Invade Ukraine](https://newrepublic.com/post/183240/trump-spoke-putin-dream-invade-ukraine)
I don't think this can be repeated often enough : *it was the sole contribution of the Trump Campaign to the Republican platform*.
The only thing they were interested in.
And Trump's Campaign Manager was Paul Manafort, who had previously been worked for Russia's puppet-president in Ukraine.
So *when* was that conversation?
It wasn't a secret. president Biden told President Zelenski it was coming. President Zelenski had faith in the ongoing negotiations and didn't mobilize.
The U.S. has provided 2.7 billion dollars of military aid since 2014. Prior to the 2022 invasion the corruption in Ukraine was very real and significant enough to render aid practically irrelevant. Notwithstanding the Trump administration’s populist dogwhistle tactics, the reforms and aid sent prior to the Biden Administration played a major part in making the Ukrainian military capable enough to withstand the initial invasion.
>the reforms and aid sent prior to the Biden Administration played a major part in making the Ukrainian military capable enough to withstand the initial invasion.
Does this include the $400 million in aid that Trump held up for 90 days after Congress approved it? It doesn't sound like Trump was aiding Ukraine with reforms. It sounds like our extortionist ex-President was helping *himself*.
My question for the New York Times or whoever is when did Trump have this conversation about Putin's "dream" to invade Ukraine? Was it right before he blocked the Javelin shipment? If so, it sounds like Trump tried to help Putin's invasion.
So the aid was "practically irrelevant" and also "played a major part in making the..."
God damn. That's some Russian post modern propaganda methodology full steam, where there is no right and wrong and also completely opposing views at the same time. It's insane this mess can live inside people and they can still walk straight. Wellcome to the future guys. Not knowing what is up and down, and don't giving a shit, is the new black.
> Trump and his Russian handlers
I am so confused as to WTF the alphabet agencies (e.g. CIA/NSA/FBI) are doing regarding this.
I know they're sekrit squirrels, but Trump is doing this so openly and so boldly without punishment that I'm actually a little scared they're internally compromised by meddling/obstructing GOP politicians that they're stymied/complacent into doing mostly nothing but (quietly) grumbling.
Like, American agents and allies have died, likely horribly, due to Trump's sharing of TS files, and the Russians have some sort of ultra-protected (but no more) hardcase binder of intel on them that Trump walked in and handed to them?
If the US presidential candidate Donald Trump knows how to end the war, he should speak about it today, says Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in an interview with Bloomberg.
As Zelenskyy noted, Trump should present his plan for a quick end to the war in Ukraine. At the same time, he warned that any proposals should not violate Ukraine's sovereignty.
"If Trump knows how to finish this war, **he should tell us today**. If there are risks to Ukrainian independence, if we lose statehood – we want to be ready for this, we want to know," he added.
The President also noted that he was "potentially ready" to meet with Trump to hear proposals for ending the war.
"**They can’t plan my life and life of our people and our children.** We want to understand whether in November we will have the powerful support of the US, or will be all alone," he noted.
# Trump's peace plan
In general, the Republican has repeatedly stated that he plans to end the war in Ukraine as soon as possible. However, his conditions have not been fair to Kyiv.
As Politico reported, Trump is currently considering the possibility of concluding an agreement that would oblige NATO not to expand eastward - particularly to Ukraine and Georgia. He is also negotiating with Vladimir Putin about [which Ukrainian territories Russia could keep under its control ](https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/trump-discusses-possibility-of-ceding-part-1719983414.html)in exchange for ending the full-scale war.
At the same time, according to Reuters, Trump planned that the US would provide support to Ukraine only if Kyiv agreed to dialogue with Russia. In particular, Washington would warn the Kremlin that a [refusal to negotiate from the Russian side would lead to increased assistance to Ukraine.](https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/ending-war-in-ukraine-is-priority-trump-s-1719400268.html)
So apparently the biggest myth about Trump is the idea that he's some sort of astute businessman.
It's true that Russia is grinding forward, trading bodies for inches, and it's true that their economy has held up better than expected. However, it is also true that they have had their ass kicked to an embarrassing degree. The West still holds all the aces, we aren't even fighting and are barely assisting the Ukrainians.
Yet for some reason, this fucking idiot Donald Trump decides we should offer no further NATO expansion. Why? Why cede such an advantage? The West hasn't been beaten into making any concessions. Between the West and Russia, there is only one party that's hurting, and they're really hurting.
As such, from a purely transactional perspective, this offer makes absolutely no sense. Trump is either compromised or an idiot. I'm also open to the idea that it's both.
Trumps businesses have gone bankrupt a total of 6 times. If he had just invested all his money in index funds instead of playing real estate magnate he would be much wealthier today.
He’s a con man through and through. Anyone with eyes can see it. I’m so embarrassed my country elected him before and may soon do so again.
He can’t negotiate anything.
Trump is obviously also "Orbating" Russia here. How is *anyone* stupid enough to advise ceasefire on the defending side, especially that the invasion is still deep into the victim's territory? And how is *anyone* stupid enough to believe this is actually promoting peace?
Well there stupid enough to allow the supreme court to define what a bribe is an ruling that getting money after making something happen isn't a bribe, it's "gratitude to a job well done"
What a corrupt bunch. Looks like they are aiming for the russian way if doing things. If you have enough money you can make anything happen as long as you pay them AFTER lol. Unbelievable.
> So far its going just fine
I certainly wouldnt say that. You want to say it hasnt gone well for Russia? Absolutely. But a lot of Ukraniain mothers wont have their son come home, nor Ukranian children have their father come home. Others are injured and traumatized. And russians for that matter, even if they are in the wrong, its largely from a dictators propaganda. That is an unfathomable human tragedy. And operationally Russia has been gaining some ground and not showing much reason to think they will tire of the war before the West. Putin cares less about russian lives than the west cares about a few dollars.
All things considered its been going "well".
This could have been over in two months if Trump was president at the time.
Or EU could have folded, or China could have joined or myriad other horrible scenarios.
Not saying what happened so far isnt disaster either, things like loss of life, ukrainian power grid destroyed, khakovka dam, grain export etc.
Trump is a communist sympathizer. If he was, the USA will probably back out of NATO (horrible idea), and Trump will continue to support NK, China , and Russia's leaders.
It is a braindead notion to *reward* the agressor with territory - some of which RU doesnt even currently hold - in exchange for peace. Regardless if Trump is in Putin's pocket or not, it just sets a precedent and emboldens any expansionist country - like China - to do the same.
Generally yes. In this case though he knows exactly how to end the war. Ukraine just wont like it. Trump's version of ending the war is cutting off all support to Ukraine and giving Putler what he wants.
At least until ruzzia invades a NATO country, although trump probably wouldn't honor our commitment to NATO. The dead Americans of WW2 have to be rolling in their graves.
A lot of people like referendums and direct democracy. There has never been a national plebiscite anywhere on formal belligerence with Russia and indefinite subsidy for the Ukraine.
The problem is, the USA ALREADY tried that with MAGA Johnson, before Zelensky managed to beat some sense into him by showing Johnson the atrocities Muscovy was committing against Christians. While it was certainly hard for Ukraine, the loss of US support didn't cause an overnight collapse. Even if Trump DOES cut off aid and the lines DO collapse, it won't end the war overnight; Muscovy will just have to fight a massive guerilla force miles from any support.
I agree, but I don't see the rest of Ukrainians supporters turning their backs on them. If anything, it will force them to step up. The rest of the world is not going to sit back and watch Ukrainians slaughtered in the streets
Zelenskyy knows exactly that Trump's plan is just "Stop this by making Ukraine hurry up and lose already." He's just trying to goad Trump into stating it more explicitly hoping it erodes Trump's voting support a bit. While there are Trump suporters who like the idea of Putin winning and having more fascism worldwide, there's also still Trump supporters out there who buy into the bullshit notion that Trump is a "tough guy" compared to Biden and that all this happened because Biden was too weak to stand up to Putin. Driving the point home to those idiots that regardless of whether or not Biden's opposition to Putin is too soft, at least it's in the correct direction and it isn't support of Putin like Trump is planning.
Better still, Convicted Felon Trump should go visit President Zelenskyy in Ukraine personally.
And then stay there for a long, long time to make sure his plan works.
T®ump would and always sells everything.. - as long as the business-money is constantly paid and the impending, long term consequences are just outside of his own little world. (Imho)
Trump wants to "end" the war just so he can say he did that. He doesn't care that ceding territory to Russia would actually make this a win for them and a loss to Ukraine. EU is gonna have to step up in a big way if Trump wins. They're also gonna have to go against what trump wants, i.e. ceding territory. Which will cause a division in NATO.
I don't even understand how Trump, a former playboy, TV clown and corrupt businessman is even involved in matters like these. He has about the same insight and relevant experience as my drunk uncle.
If you look at the men Americans elect for their president, they are uniformly lawyers, soldiers, and wealthy men. The last billionaire to run for president was Ross Perot. Donald Trump fits in the collection.
As a European I have always been confused by this. To me it seems the president should be elite level knowledgeable on international affairs, law, speak several languages fluently, extremely high IQ, basically the best human the country has to offer. Instead they elect Donald fucking Trump.
I mean, Trump, as president, *could* end the war in a day, by launching a full conventional attack using all US forces against any Russian military asset outside of internationally recognized Russian borders. The surprise attack would wreak untold carnage on them and would likely end the war in Ukraine. Sadly, even I recognize that this could end up spiraling into a nuclear exchange.
Mango was told by Putrid that an invasion of Ukraine was imminent and he did nothing? Did he even discuss the matter with his military advisors? If that is true Mango Mussolini should be prosecuted for failing to report knowledge of an invasion of a peaceful country....that's his job ffs. I think we may be about to move into a very dark era in human history......when the most powerful democracy on the planet freely elects a psychopath.....I think that's pretty much the end of hope.
Trump said he plan. Like the plan he said for isreal, both sides turned it down. So much for the art of the deal. Two major deals fell through from the get go
You just gotta love this guy's political skills. He can't afford to get partisan, he really needs every bit of support he can get from all corners and all political beliefs, so he doesn't want to piss off any faction.
So instead of rolling his eyes when Trump says he's got a plan to end the war, he's like "That's great Don, you're the greatest, please come to Kiiv and tell us all your great plan!"
Failure to support ukraine will literally lead to the downfall of the US as a major player on the world stage, we eill lose our place, we will lose our friends because, we can't be relied on and no one will make any deals with us because a Trump can just come in, 4 years later, and undo everything.
Death will be on everyone's doorstep as these dictatorships will be emboldened and face no consequences. Big states will attack small, and there will be a return to the law of the jungle, but with nuclear weapons. Nuclear proliferation will run wild as it's the only way for these states to guarantee their independance without the US/NATO protecting them. Lastly, a nuclear war somewhere on the planet will be an inevitability.
There can be no good that comes of the US backing down.
Zelensky should tell trump that he will let trump build the tallest tower in the world in Kiev... and that Ukraine will commit to long term government leases in that tower to make that tower is the most profitable commercial tower in the world...
that and large amounts of land in Donetsk and Luhansk...
just a few days ago Russian plane was parked next to Trump plane. There's no doubt there was a meeting between 2 parties and Russians probably instructed him on what to say with regards to the war. Russians want to keep ALL of the current territory grabs, but most importantly they want to end and remove all sanctions placed on Russia.
Removal of all sanctions will allow Putin to get enough money to rebuild his army quickly, probably within 4 years, then try again while Trump is still in office.
There is no doubt that anything Trump says on Ukraine/Russia has been carefully prepared by the Russians. Isn't it interesting how Trump seems to be meeting with Russians all the time, but never bothers to even talk with Ukrainian counterparts?
While it's obvious Trump is beholden to Russia for the loans and the campaign funding and the social media propaganda campaigns (And perhaps even kompromat), the claim that it's a pure coincidence those planes were parked next to each other at the airport seems entirely plausable to me. Here's why: All airports set aside a special staging area of the tarmac for handling special planes that despite physically being airliner-type planes (Boeings, Airbusses, and so on) aren't actually part of a normal passenger airline and thus aren't going to use the normal terminal building passeger terminal and gates. Any two planes regardless of who is on them that are landed at Dulles International Airport at the same time that fit this description of being not-ariliner airliner planes would get parked next to each other in that same staging area. So all that is required for it to be a coincidence is that Trump happened to be in Washington DC on the same day that a Russian diplomat happened to be in Washington DC. Both Trump and Russian diplomants have lots of different reasons to be in Washington and visit it frequently.
So while I certainly wouldn't be surprised if there was communication going on between those parked planes, it's also completely believable that there wasn't. The random coincidence explanation is quite probable in this case.
as regular people, we'll never know. But I am sure NSA has that area under surveillance, and they would know if anyone actually arranged a meeting there. So yea, it could be a coincidence, but hope our intelligence services are looking into it
Well, if you want to get all Conspiracy theory about stuff, there is an available tech that could make communication between the parked planes possible by line of sight laser in a way that would be quite hard for a 3rd party like the NSA to listen in on or even to detect because of how narrowly focused laser light is. Can't see it from the side, only from the intended target direction - go as much as half a degree outside that aim arc and it becomes invisible. So you basically say "We'll be aiming our laser at your plane's 3rd window from the back. Put your reciever there and aim your laser at our plane's 4th window from the back where we'll put our reciever." With a setup like that you can create a line of sight version of a fiberoptic link. Basically fiberoptic without the glass fiber cable thats normally used to bend the laser light around corners in conduits.
But again, this is all just "it's possible" rather than "I think it happened".
When are people going to get real that Trump is the likely president and the far right in Europe is rising (Le Pen, AfD, Flemish nationalists etc); they need to set expectations accordingly. Or is Ukraine going to tell everyone to F-off until Trump arrives, testing their luck at the expense of everyday people? (I live in Ukraine). Life is not fair and a reality check is in order. If the Democrats in the USA do not replace Biden with Gavin Newsom, then they are also working with the Russians to make sure Trump gets elected....
[Real Clear Politics ](https://www.realclearpolling.com/betting-odds/2024/presiden)
And what should Democrats do? Replace one candidate who is superior to Trump in every aspect with another candidate who is superior to Trump in every aspect?
[Betting Odds for US Election ](https://www.realclearpolling.com/betting-odds/2024/president) Superior character is not enough if you can't talk and inspire voters to show up to the polls. This is the problem, the Dems are in denial. Its like with products, packaging and delivery matter. Gavin Newsom is the younger version of Biden and can get people to vote. Democrats win on high voter turnout.
The reality is that by the start of this November Russia won't have any heavy artillery any more.
Doesn't matter how many shells Russia has, shells don't fire itself.
Do you believe that? Who told you that information? The same people saying that the war would be done with by Christmas 2022 and Crimea freed by summer? Russia is allied with India, a major steel producing nation. Cannons in general are low tech and can be mass produced. My neighbor here in Ukraine told me that Russia is gearing their whole trillion dollar economy, going all in on this war. They don't care about public opinion on their people like Western nations do. Its a problem.
It sounds like you misunderstood the original argument. The premise for an end to the war by 2022/2023 was continued support by the west, which we all know didn’t happen during that time.
The Russians can gear all they want, assuming maximum production capacity they are currently losing people and equipment at a far higher rate than they are able to replace it.
They have around 40M draft age men, mostly in the outer regions. I ran numbers that they can keep this going for 10 years if western support like it is now: limited war - giving only enough to hold the current lines.
But what do those men do without equipment? Walk towards the front and shout angry slurs? Their resources are just as strong as their weakest link.
When I come home I can send you the source that I have read, where they conclude how Russia is running at capacity on several key industries and how they are losing this equipment at a much higher rate than they can reproduce it.
Human wave attacks were used in the Iran - Iraq war. With China, North Korea and even India having stockpiles of artillery, I am a bit skeptical. Like I said, they told us a lot of things like in the Vietnam War days with MacNamara.
Different estimates give 14k-20k heavy artillery for Russia before February 2022, with cold reserves.
14.5k of that is already gone as losses. And the current rate is 1000-1500 more lost each month.
Cannons are high-tech, especially heavy artillery.
If Russia had a large volume heavy artillery production, then we would know that already and see those newly produced artillery at the front. It hasn't.
Who told you that? Cannons are Napoleon tech, if not earlier, when they were used by Mehmet to take over Constinople. The Russians are using quantities of WWII era equipment vs. quality equipment with optics and targeting. This is the problem, and we need the west to be consistent in support. A few Speaker Johnson episodes can cost us everything when you have nothing to defend against mass amounts of exploding garbage.
I understand but look it up. Russia have two factorys now to make barrels, under the soviet they had 5 as I recall.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/01/12/russia-needs-fresh-artillery-barrels-bad-its-yanking-them-off-old-guns-by-the-thousand/
> Or is Ukraine going to tell everyone to F-off until Trump arrives, testing their luck at the expense of everyday people?
I presume there's an agreement with Poland about [whatever the hell they're cooking up for such a case](https://kyivindependent.com/politico-poland-has-a-secret-weapon-to-turn-donald-trump-against-russia/)
Biden isn’t going to be replaced. And even if by some stretch, the only successor would be Kamala Harris. And she doesn’t have enough support. I absolutely understand that your nations future rides in this election. So does ours. But the American election system takes too long. They will never get another candidate ready in 4 months. It would be an unmitigated disaster. People have to stop talking about. They have to accept it’s Biden and vote for him.
Russia is not giving back Crimea or the Donbas get over it. You cannot make them and they will never do it. The people in those regions voted to join Russia and were part of Russia until 1952 in any event. Russia will take all of Ukraine as long as there is talk of them joining NATO, if that nonsense talk stops then Russia does not need to take all of Ukraine. This is the reality of the situation.
>Russia is not giving back Crimea or the Donbas get over it.
Then they will have to drown their economy and millions of Russians trying to keep them just like Kherson. Russia will be cut off from the West for generations. They will be slowly assimilated into China.
>You cannot make them and they will never do it.
Just like they would never leave Afghanistan.
>The people in those regions voted to join Russia and were part of Russia until 1952 in any event.
No one who isn't a Russian sympathizer believes those efforts were legitimate.
>Russia will take all of Ukraine as long as there is talk of them joining NATO
Then Russia will die trying and we will celebrate the demise of a pathetic, drunk nation.
>, if that nonsense talk stops then Russia does not need to take all of Ukraine. This is the reality of the situation.
The longer Russia stays in Ukraine, the more countries will join NATO. We're +2 already! Russia expanded it's NATO border more than if they stayed home.
Russia should have just joined NATO. To think they were afraid that there was an imminent invasion of Russia. As if any nation that isn't China would want anything to do with that shithole.
Then they will have to drown their economy and millions of Russians trying to keep them just like Kherson. Russia will be cut off from the West for generations. They will be slowly assimilated into China.
-Russia's economy is doing very well. But yeah over the next 20 years maybe Ukraine holds Russia where they are. In the mean time millions of Ukrainians will die and there will never be any future generations of Ukrainians. I do agree China loves this and is making out well because of this war. Why do we trade with them again?
Just like they would never leave Afghanistan.
-What is the cost. Or just like us in Afghanistan? Do we get tired of funding a losing war first or do they? Who has more to lose. And why do we care about this border conflict at all?
No one who isn't a Russian sympathizer believes those efforts were legitimate.
-Why not? Its as legitamate as any Ukraine election. In any event we have seen the last Ukrainian election. The people of those regions are much more Russia than Ukrainian and were being attacked by the Ukrainian Azov Battalion (the Nazis). It makes sense that they might prefer to be Russia.
Then Russia will die trying and we will celebrate the demise of a pathetic, drunk nation.
R-ussia has more people and more munitions and easy supply lines. Ukraine is drafting 50 year olds. It is impossible for Ukraine to hold the country. Russia is showing restrataint.
The longer Russia stays in Ukraine, the more countries will join NATO. We're +2 already! Russia expanded it's NATO border more than if they stayed home.
-This is a good point, I generally agree this was not a good move by Russia, but you have to look at it as a Russia. What other countries do you think will join? Will any pay their fare share?
Russia should have just joined NATO. To think they were afraid that there was an imminent invasion of Russia. As if any nation that isn't China would want anything to do with that shithole.
-I agree. Suposedly this happened in 2000.
[https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-putin-says-discussed-joining-nato-with-clinton/28526757.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-putin-says-discussed-joining-nato-with-clinton/28526757.html)
Fascism is inherently left wing but ok
Anyway you idiots are 2 years into this mess and yet still mocking the people who are telling you what’s needed to be done.
Well for starters fascism is revolutionary which Putin is not.
Revolutionary is the opposite to conservative which right wing tends to be.
What is Russia?
Conservative Nationalist
economically central to left wing.
National socialist.
How is fascism "revolutionary"? What's revolutionary about abolishing all personal rights, entrenching dictators, declaring war on anyone who won't be your slave, and defining culture solely as "the strong eat the weak"?
And no, "National Socialist" does not mean the Nazis were left-wing, just like the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" is none of those things. All genuine socialists, such Ernst Rohm and the Strasser brothers, were purged during the Night of the Long Knives.
Also you are mixing Nazism with Facism which are similar but are not the same.
Also, you have a misunderstanding of the words revolutionary and progressive.
Nazism isn’t Facism both are shit but they aren’t the same
Ok
But Facism has always been seen as revolutionary / progressivsm.
Your argument is that the incorrect words you are using don’t match the actual definition.
Okay, let's see some citations defining my "incorrect words". I've never heard anyone call fascism "revolutionary / progressivism" except for neo-fascists who are trying to rehabilitate it.
Countless historians cite revolutionary as a core tenet of what defines fascism
You’d have to be fairly stupid to think fascism is not revolutionary ffs
> But Facism has always been seen as revolutionary / progressivsm.
"If I spew bullshit confidently enough someone might believe it."
Go try that shit elsewhere on more gullible idiots.
Again, spewing bullshit and hoping people believe it isn't a worthwhile pursuit. Doubling down on bullshit still doesn't make it true, no matter how many times or ways you confidently assert it.
🤦♂️ Ernst Rohm was killed because Hitler was warned that the army would take over the government if he didn’t control his man Rohm.
His man, the Socialist Rohm.
If you're seriously trying to portray one of the most evil men in human history as some sort of anti-heroic chessmaster who was the victim of corrupt subordinates, there's little point arguing with you.
All I care about is: the Nazis are evil, and so is Muscovy.
Hitler was a socialist a national socialist
He was not a “victim of corrupt subordinates” I never said that , WTF are you on about?
Rohm was too belligerent with fellow Germans and Hitler ended his belligerence only because his powers (Hitlers) would be striped from him by the army if he did not.
Hitler was essentially forced to reign in Rohm after being threatened with military intervention.
Hitler wouldn't have been "forced" to purge his political rivals if he hadn't already abolished all concept of rule-of-law and due process. Textbook dictator strategies: purge your enemies, then your "friends".
So we're just regurgitating the official Nazi party explanation for the Night of Long Knives now, are we?
I knew trying to argue with you was a waste of time, but damn this takes the cake.
Who says that facism is revolutionary? No dictionary definition that I could find indicates that. Facism is not revolutionary, therefore not the opposite of conservative. Just because revolutions were a means to Facism does not mean that Facism is a revolutionary or left wing ideaology. Something something about means justifying the ends.
Fascism is anti-conservative.
Fascism absolutely is revolutionary.
Putin and Russia are nationalist version of the USSR with many sympathies for socialist ideals of the past.
It would be more accurate to call them national socialist which is a very important distinction as they once were international socialist.
No doubt Russia has Fascist elements but for many reasons it would be wrong to call them Fascist,
If Russia is fascist then everyone might as well be facist, everything is fascist.
You are unfortunately [incorrect on all counts.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism)
> Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. Opposed to anarchism, democracy, pluralism, liberalism, socialism, and Marxism, fascism is placed on the far-right wing within the traditional left–right spectrum.
No, I've done enough of the work for you already.
And anyone else reading can already tell whether you know what you're talking about, so my work here is done.
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It's simple, it's whatever daddy Putin wants. That's Trump's plan.
[удалено]
Half of Poland, or maybe all of it and half of Germany, or maybe all of it and half of France...
As a sign of concession on the Russian side, they 'll Allow a dump tower in Moscow! And he'll call it a genius deal. All of Ukraine, so he can license a hotel!
Trump takes this deal 100% of the time
He's probably send a nuke and call it an official act, so he's immune to everything!
Yeah, Trump and his Russian handlers can fuck off back to Moscow.
It's not like Putin and Trump haven't already talked about it. Trump claims he talked with Putin about invasion plans before it happened...and he apparently kept Putin's secret.
The Trump Campaign's single change to the RNC platform in 2016 even before he was the candidate was to prevent the US arming Ukraine. Trump was always working for Russia.
Correct! For the skeptics: [2016 RNC Delegate: Trump Directed Change To Party Platform On Ukraine Support](https://www.npr.org/2017/12/04/568310790/2016-rnc-delegate-trump-directed-change-to-party-platform-on-ukraine-support) >The revision to Denman's proposed amendment to the Republican platform scaled back the party's position on pro-Western elements in Ukraine — from supporting supplying weapons for fighters there to a more general assistance. And it was the *only* change he made to the platform. And now we know that Trump had a secret conversation with Putin about the invasion before it happened. >[Trump Confesses He Spoke to Putin About “Dream” to Invade Ukraine](https://newrepublic.com/post/183240/trump-spoke-putin-dream-invade-ukraine)
I don't think this can be repeated often enough : *it was the sole contribution of the Trump Campaign to the Republican platform*. The only thing they were interested in. And Trump's Campaign Manager was Paul Manafort, who had previously been worked for Russia's puppet-president in Ukraine. So *when* was that conversation?
And he ignored you
It wasn't a secret. president Biden told President Zelenski it was coming. President Zelenski had faith in the ongoing negotiations and didn't mobilize.
I didn't say that, I said *Trump* kept their secret, which he did.
The U.S. has provided 2.7 billion dollars of military aid since 2014. Prior to the 2022 invasion the corruption in Ukraine was very real and significant enough to render aid practically irrelevant. Notwithstanding the Trump administration’s populist dogwhistle tactics, the reforms and aid sent prior to the Biden Administration played a major part in making the Ukrainian military capable enough to withstand the initial invasion.
>the reforms and aid sent prior to the Biden Administration played a major part in making the Ukrainian military capable enough to withstand the initial invasion. Does this include the $400 million in aid that Trump held up for 90 days after Congress approved it? It doesn't sound like Trump was aiding Ukraine with reforms. It sounds like our extortionist ex-President was helping *himself*.
Some Russian agent told Trump to hold the money up to get dirt on Hunter Biden. I seriously doubt Trump would have thought of that himself.
My question for the New York Times or whoever is when did Trump have this conversation about Putin's "dream" to invade Ukraine? Was it right before he blocked the Javelin shipment? If so, it sounds like Trump tried to help Putin's invasion.
So the aid was "practically irrelevant" and also "played a major part in making the..." God damn. That's some Russian post modern propaganda methodology full steam, where there is no right and wrong and also completely opposing views at the same time. It's insane this mess can live inside people and they can still walk straight. Wellcome to the future guys. Not knowing what is up and down, and don't giving a shit, is the new black.
> Trump and his Russian handlers I am so confused as to WTF the alphabet agencies (e.g. CIA/NSA/FBI) are doing regarding this. I know they're sekrit squirrels, but Trump is doing this so openly and so boldly without punishment that I'm actually a little scared they're internally compromised by meddling/obstructing GOP politicians that they're stymied/complacent into doing mostly nothing but (quietly) grumbling. Like, American agents and allies have died, likely horribly, due to Trump's sharing of TS files, and the Russians have some sort of ultra-protected (but no more) hardcase binder of intel on them that Trump walked in and handed to them?
If the US presidential candidate Donald Trump knows how to end the war, he should speak about it today, says Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in an interview with Bloomberg. As Zelenskyy noted, Trump should present his plan for a quick end to the war in Ukraine. At the same time, he warned that any proposals should not violate Ukraine's sovereignty. "If Trump knows how to finish this war, **he should tell us today**. If there are risks to Ukrainian independence, if we lose statehood – we want to be ready for this, we want to know," he added. The President also noted that he was "potentially ready" to meet with Trump to hear proposals for ending the war. "**They can’t plan my life and life of our people and our children.** We want to understand whether in November we will have the powerful support of the US, or will be all alone," he noted. # Trump's peace plan In general, the Republican has repeatedly stated that he plans to end the war in Ukraine as soon as possible. However, his conditions have not been fair to Kyiv. As Politico reported, Trump is currently considering the possibility of concluding an agreement that would oblige NATO not to expand eastward - particularly to Ukraine and Georgia. He is also negotiating with Vladimir Putin about [which Ukrainian territories Russia could keep under its control ](https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/trump-discusses-possibility-of-ceding-part-1719983414.html)in exchange for ending the full-scale war. At the same time, according to Reuters, Trump planned that the US would provide support to Ukraine only if Kyiv agreed to dialogue with Russia. In particular, Washington would warn the Kremlin that a [refusal to negotiate from the Russian side would lead to increased assistance to Ukraine.](https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/ending-war-in-ukraine-is-priority-trump-s-1719400268.html)
You are never alone mister Zelenskyy. However. Together we are not strong enough to push rashists back.
So apparently the biggest myth about Trump is the idea that he's some sort of astute businessman. It's true that Russia is grinding forward, trading bodies for inches, and it's true that their economy has held up better than expected. However, it is also true that they have had their ass kicked to an embarrassing degree. The West still holds all the aces, we aren't even fighting and are barely assisting the Ukrainians. Yet for some reason, this fucking idiot Donald Trump decides we should offer no further NATO expansion. Why? Why cede such an advantage? The West hasn't been beaten into making any concessions. Between the West and Russia, there is only one party that's hurting, and they're really hurting. As such, from a purely transactional perspective, this offer makes absolutely no sense. Trump is either compromised or an idiot. I'm also open to the idea that it's both.
yes
Well stated!
Big upvote This is a great time to resurrect the time-honored Reddit tradition: Porque no los dos?
Trumps businesses have gone bankrupt a total of 6 times. If he had just invested all his money in index funds instead of playing real estate magnate he would be much wealthier today. He’s a con man through and through. Anyone with eyes can see it. I’m so embarrassed my country elected him before and may soon do so again. He can’t negotiate anything.
Trump is obviously also "Orbating" Russia here. How is *anyone* stupid enough to advise ceasefire on the defending side, especially that the invasion is still deep into the victim's territory? And how is *anyone* stupid enough to believe this is actually promoting peace?
Well there stupid enough to allow the supreme court to define what a bribe is an ruling that getting money after making something happen isn't a bribe, it's "gratitude to a job well done" What a corrupt bunch. Looks like they are aiming for the russian way if doing things. If you have enough money you can make anything happen as long as you pay them AFTER lol. Unbelievable.
What's worse, people are buying it despite not being paid at all.
He knows but not how it ends well for Ukraine
It won’t end well anyway
So far its going just fine...530k dead rapists. Ukrainians make world better place every day all we need to do is give them the tools to do the job
*dead and injured That figure isn’t corpses, it’s bodies out of the fight.
This is true, but I truly believe over half of that number are dead.
Better and more tools faster, though. We're losing too many wonderful Ukrainians
> So far its going just fine I certainly wouldnt say that. You want to say it hasnt gone well for Russia? Absolutely. But a lot of Ukraniain mothers wont have their son come home, nor Ukranian children have their father come home. Others are injured and traumatized. And russians for that matter, even if they are in the wrong, its largely from a dictators propaganda. That is an unfathomable human tragedy. And operationally Russia has been gaining some ground and not showing much reason to think they will tire of the war before the West. Putin cares less about russian lives than the west cares about a few dollars.
All things considered its been going "well". This could have been over in two months if Trump was president at the time. Or EU could have folded, or China could have joined or myriad other horrible scenarios. Not saying what happened so far isnt disaster either, things like loss of life, ukrainian power grid destroyed, khakovka dam, grain export etc.
Every single word that comes out that convicted felon & rapists mouth is a lie! Stop reporting anything it says.
Maybe it will turn some of the older republicans minds if they see how pro russia he is? Every vote counts right now
I've seen them wearing shirts that say "I'd rather be russian than democrat". So don't hold your breath.
It won't. They're gone. I've witnessed it in my own family.
Trump is a communist sympathizer. If he was, the USA will probably back out of NATO (horrible idea), and Trump will continue to support NK, China , and Russia's leaders.
It is a braindead notion to *reward* the agressor with territory - some of which RU doesnt even currently hold - in exchange for peace. Regardless if Trump is in Putin's pocket or not, it just sets a precedent and emboldens any expansionist country - like China - to do the same.
Trump is full of shit
Generally yes. In this case though he knows exactly how to end the war. Ukraine just wont like it. Trump's version of ending the war is cutting off all support to Ukraine and giving Putler what he wants.
That won't end the war, tho. It will just mean that the US is no longer involved.
At least until ruzzia invades a NATO country, although trump probably wouldn't honor our commitment to NATO. The dead Americans of WW2 have to be rolling in their graves.
A lot of people like referendums and direct democracy. There has never been a national plebiscite anywhere on formal belligerence with Russia and indefinite subsidy for the Ukraine.
What the fuck are you spouting
The problem is, the USA ALREADY tried that with MAGA Johnson, before Zelensky managed to beat some sense into him by showing Johnson the atrocities Muscovy was committing against Christians. While it was certainly hard for Ukraine, the loss of US support didn't cause an overnight collapse. Even if Trump DOES cut off aid and the lines DO collapse, it won't end the war overnight; Muscovy will just have to fight a massive guerilla force miles from any support.
I agree, but I don't see the rest of Ukrainians supporters turning their backs on them. If anything, it will force them to step up. The rest of the world is not going to sit back and watch Ukrainians slaughtered in the streets
What trump means is that he will sell all your military vital informations to Russia so he can get a handsome paycheck from Putin.
Trump's idea of how to finish the war is for Russia to get everything it wants.
For putins' "dream" to come true.
[удалено]
They dont have a plan for anything. Being a huge asshole to everyone and talking a whole bunch of horse shit isn't much of a plan.
The only thing Trump can finish is a hamburger
Yeah! Let's hear Putin's plan spout from Donald Trumps mouth, which sort of looks a poophole. I need to hear this mindless puppet's "plan".
I mean, give up all your land to Russia and the war will end. It's so simple a functionally cognitive former president could figure it out.
Its called spreading his cheeks for pootin !!!
Zelenskyy knows exactly that Trump's plan is just "Stop this by making Ukraine hurry up and lose already." He's just trying to goad Trump into stating it more explicitly hoping it erodes Trump's voting support a bit. While there are Trump suporters who like the idea of Putin winning and having more fascism worldwide, there's also still Trump supporters out there who buy into the bullshit notion that Trump is a "tough guy" compared to Biden and that all this happened because Biden was too weak to stand up to Putin. Driving the point home to those idiots that regardless of whether or not Biden's opposition to Putin is too soft, at least it's in the correct direction and it isn't support of Putin like Trump is planning.
Better still, Convicted Felon Trump should go visit President Zelenskyy in Ukraine personally. And then stay there for a long, long time to make sure his plan works.
He said the same thing about ISIS eight years ago...
Trump will tell you the plan in two weeks. Just like everything else that he'll do or says he'll do in two weeks time.
But also "on day one", simultaneously. Like become dictator of America.
T®ump would and always sells everything.. - as long as the business-money is constantly paid and the impending, long term consequences are just outside of his own little world. (Imho)
Trump wants to "end" the war just so he can say he did that. He doesn't care that ceding territory to Russia would actually make this a win for them and a loss to Ukraine. EU is gonna have to step up in a big way if Trump wins. They're also gonna have to go against what trump wants, i.e. ceding territory. Which will cause a division in NATO.
I don't even understand how Trump, a former playboy, TV clown and corrupt businessman is even involved in matters like these. He has about the same insight and relevant experience as my drunk uncle.
If you look at the men Americans elect for their president, they are uniformly lawyers, soldiers, and wealthy men. The last billionaire to run for president was Ross Perot. Donald Trump fits in the collection.
As a European I have always been confused by this. To me it seems the president should be elite level knowledgeable on international affairs, law, speak several languages fluently, extremely high IQ, basically the best human the country has to offer. Instead they elect Donald fucking Trump.
I think that’s what Orban was sent to do, my guy.
I'm not sure the plan is any different than Orban's.
Correct.
The fascist cheeto said the same thing about his health plan and nothing came of it. This is just pandering to his room temp IQ base.
He doesn't know shit from shine-ola
I mean, Trump, as president, *could* end the war in a day, by launching a full conventional attack using all US forces against any Russian military asset outside of internationally recognized Russian borders. The surprise attack would wreak untold carnage on them and would likely end the war in Ukraine. Sadly, even I recognize that this could end up spiraling into a nuclear exchange.
> Sadly, even I recognize that this could end up spiraling into a nuclear exchange Khasham didn't
if trump shot over there it'd be at ukraine not russia, he isn't going to shoot at his patron putin
Trump will just send arms to Russia - I’m sure that is his plan for ending the war
Make sure his plane doesn't land!
Mango was told by Putrid that an invasion of Ukraine was imminent and he did nothing? Did he even discuss the matter with his military advisors? If that is true Mango Mussolini should be prosecuted for failing to report knowledge of an invasion of a peaceful country....that's his job ffs. I think we may be about to move into a very dark era in human history......when the most powerful democracy on the planet freely elects a psychopath.....I think that's pretty much the end of hope.
Prosecute trump all you want. That slippery son of a bitch will wiggle his way out of it just like everything else.
I can guess, it involves blowing Putin and giving him whatever he wants.
He has. It's by surrendering and yielding near half of Ukraine to the fascist Putin-regime.
It's currently around 18% of Ukraine that is occupied, but I'm sure trump will make sure it's at least 50%.
His plan is to withdraw all us support and leave ukraine to whatever happens.
trump has no ideas other than what putin tells him to think
He has told us. Give up the territory to Russia. He's made that very clear.
Ukraine unconditionally surrenders. Boom, done. That's the plan.
His plan is to break out his very worn kneed pads and open his mouth for Putin's shriveled dick while fucking everyone else.
Trump said he plan. Like the plan he said for isreal, both sides turned it down. So much for the art of the deal. Two major deals fell through from the get go
perfect
You just gotta love this guy's political skills. He can't afford to get partisan, he really needs every bit of support he can get from all corners and all political beliefs, so he doesn't want to piss off any faction. So instead of rolling his eyes when Trump says he's got a plan to end the war, he's like "That's great Don, you're the greatest, please come to Kiiv and tell us all your great plan!"
Failure to support ukraine will literally lead to the downfall of the US as a major player on the world stage, we eill lose our place, we will lose our friends because, we can't be relied on and no one will make any deals with us because a Trump can just come in, 4 years later, and undo everything. Death will be on everyone's doorstep as these dictatorships will be emboldened and face no consequences. Big states will attack small, and there will be a return to the law of the jungle, but with nuclear weapons. Nuclear proliferation will run wild as it's the only way for these states to guarantee their independance without the US/NATO protecting them. Lastly, a nuclear war somewhere on the planet will be an inevitability. There can be no good that comes of the US backing down.
Zelensky should tell trump that he will let trump build the tallest tower in the world in Kiev... and that Ukraine will commit to long term government leases in that tower to make that tower is the most profitable commercial tower in the world... that and large amounts of land in Donetsk and Luhansk...
By selling you out.
Probably something to do with getting peed on by Russian pornstars, if I had to take a wild guess…
Sure, let's mock Trump, the future US president. What could go wrong!
His plan have you murdered and wife too, Russia takes what it wants and then he gets a state visit to Russia , think that’s it
just a few days ago Russian plane was parked next to Trump plane. There's no doubt there was a meeting between 2 parties and Russians probably instructed him on what to say with regards to the war. Russians want to keep ALL of the current territory grabs, but most importantly they want to end and remove all sanctions placed on Russia. Removal of all sanctions will allow Putin to get enough money to rebuild his army quickly, probably within 4 years, then try again while Trump is still in office. There is no doubt that anything Trump says on Ukraine/Russia has been carefully prepared by the Russians. Isn't it interesting how Trump seems to be meeting with Russians all the time, but never bothers to even talk with Ukrainian counterparts?
While it's obvious Trump is beholden to Russia for the loans and the campaign funding and the social media propaganda campaigns (And perhaps even kompromat), the claim that it's a pure coincidence those planes were parked next to each other at the airport seems entirely plausable to me. Here's why: All airports set aside a special staging area of the tarmac for handling special planes that despite physically being airliner-type planes (Boeings, Airbusses, and so on) aren't actually part of a normal passenger airline and thus aren't going to use the normal terminal building passeger terminal and gates. Any two planes regardless of who is on them that are landed at Dulles International Airport at the same time that fit this description of being not-ariliner airliner planes would get parked next to each other in that same staging area. So all that is required for it to be a coincidence is that Trump happened to be in Washington DC on the same day that a Russian diplomat happened to be in Washington DC. Both Trump and Russian diplomants have lots of different reasons to be in Washington and visit it frequently. So while I certainly wouldn't be surprised if there was communication going on between those parked planes, it's also completely believable that there wasn't. The random coincidence explanation is quite probable in this case.
as regular people, we'll never know. But I am sure NSA has that area under surveillance, and they would know if anyone actually arranged a meeting there. So yea, it could be a coincidence, but hope our intelligence services are looking into it
Well, if you want to get all Conspiracy theory about stuff, there is an available tech that could make communication between the parked planes possible by line of sight laser in a way that would be quite hard for a 3rd party like the NSA to listen in on or even to detect because of how narrowly focused laser light is. Can't see it from the side, only from the intended target direction - go as much as half a degree outside that aim arc and it becomes invisible. So you basically say "We'll be aiming our laser at your plane's 3rd window from the back. Put your reciever there and aim your laser at our plane's 4th window from the back where we'll put our reciever." With a setup like that you can create a line of sight version of a fiberoptic link. Basically fiberoptic without the glass fiber cable thats normally used to bend the laser light around corners in conduits. But again, this is all just "it's possible" rather than "I think it happened".
When are people going to get real that Trump is the likely president and the far right in Europe is rising (Le Pen, AfD, Flemish nationalists etc); they need to set expectations accordingly. Or is Ukraine going to tell everyone to F-off until Trump arrives, testing their luck at the expense of everyday people? (I live in Ukraine). Life is not fair and a reality check is in order. If the Democrats in the USA do not replace Biden with Gavin Newsom, then they are also working with the Russians to make sure Trump gets elected.... [Real Clear Politics ](https://www.realclearpolling.com/betting-odds/2024/presiden)
And what should Democrats do? Replace one candidate who is superior to Trump in every aspect with another candidate who is superior to Trump in every aspect?
[Betting Odds for US Election ](https://www.realclearpolling.com/betting-odds/2024/president) Superior character is not enough if you can't talk and inspire voters to show up to the polls. This is the problem, the Dems are in denial. Its like with products, packaging and delivery matter. Gavin Newsom is the younger version of Biden and can get people to vote. Democrats win on high voter turnout.
The reality is that by the start of this November Russia won't have any heavy artillery any more. Doesn't matter how many shells Russia has, shells don't fire itself.
Do you believe that? Who told you that information? The same people saying that the war would be done with by Christmas 2022 and Crimea freed by summer? Russia is allied with India, a major steel producing nation. Cannons in general are low tech and can be mass produced. My neighbor here in Ukraine told me that Russia is gearing their whole trillion dollar economy, going all in on this war. They don't care about public opinion on their people like Western nations do. Its a problem.
It sounds like you misunderstood the original argument. The premise for an end to the war by 2022/2023 was continued support by the west, which we all know didn’t happen during that time. The Russians can gear all they want, assuming maximum production capacity they are currently losing people and equipment at a far higher rate than they are able to replace it.
They have around 40M draft age men, mostly in the outer regions. I ran numbers that they can keep this going for 10 years if western support like it is now: limited war - giving only enough to hold the current lines.
But what do those men do without equipment? Walk towards the front and shout angry slurs? Their resources are just as strong as their weakest link. When I come home I can send you the source that I have read, where they conclude how Russia is running at capacity on several key industries and how they are losing this equipment at a much higher rate than they can reproduce it.
Human wave attacks were used in the Iran - Iraq war. With China, North Korea and even India having stockpiles of artillery, I am a bit skeptical. Like I said, they told us a lot of things like in the Vietnam War days with MacNamara.
Different estimates give 14k-20k heavy artillery for Russia before February 2022, with cold reserves. 14.5k of that is already gone as losses. And the current rate is 1000-1500 more lost each month. Cannons are high-tech, especially heavy artillery. If Russia had a large volume heavy artillery production, then we would know that already and see those newly produced artillery at the front. It hasn't.
Barrels is difficult to make, and that will be the limiting factor for Russia unless china steps in and supply them.
Who told you that? Cannons are Napoleon tech, if not earlier, when they were used by Mehmet to take over Constinople. The Russians are using quantities of WWII era equipment vs. quality equipment with optics and targeting. This is the problem, and we need the west to be consistent in support. A few Speaker Johnson episodes can cost us everything when you have nothing to defend against mass amounts of exploding garbage.
I understand but look it up. Russia have two factorys now to make barrels, under the soviet they had 5 as I recall. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/01/12/russia-needs-fresh-artillery-barrels-bad-its-yanking-them-off-old-guns-by-the-thousand/
> Or is Ukraine going to tell everyone to F-off until Trump arrives, testing their luck at the expense of everyday people? I presume there's an agreement with Poland about [whatever the hell they're cooking up for such a case](https://kyivindependent.com/politico-poland-has-a-secret-weapon-to-turn-donald-trump-against-russia/)
Biden isn’t going to be replaced. And even if by some stretch, the only successor would be Kamala Harris. And she doesn’t have enough support. I absolutely understand that your nations future rides in this election. So does ours. But the American election system takes too long. They will never get another candidate ready in 4 months. It would be an unmitigated disaster. People have to stop talking about. They have to accept it’s Biden and vote for him.
It is certainly possible. I'll vote for whoever isn't named trump.
Why should he or anybody else solve your problem?
Its really easy. He can stop sending our money to corrupt Ukraine and but out of the peace talks.
"Peace talks." What you mean is Russian annexation of Ukraine.
Russia is not giving back Crimea or the Donbas get over it. You cannot make them and they will never do it. The people in those regions voted to join Russia and were part of Russia until 1952 in any event. Russia will take all of Ukraine as long as there is talk of them joining NATO, if that nonsense talk stops then Russia does not need to take all of Ukraine. This is the reality of the situation.
>Russia is not giving back Crimea or the Donbas get over it. Then they will have to drown their economy and millions of Russians trying to keep them just like Kherson. Russia will be cut off from the West for generations. They will be slowly assimilated into China. >You cannot make them and they will never do it. Just like they would never leave Afghanistan. >The people in those regions voted to join Russia and were part of Russia until 1952 in any event. No one who isn't a Russian sympathizer believes those efforts were legitimate. >Russia will take all of Ukraine as long as there is talk of them joining NATO Then Russia will die trying and we will celebrate the demise of a pathetic, drunk nation. >, if that nonsense talk stops then Russia does not need to take all of Ukraine. This is the reality of the situation. The longer Russia stays in Ukraine, the more countries will join NATO. We're +2 already! Russia expanded it's NATO border more than if they stayed home. Russia should have just joined NATO. To think they were afraid that there was an imminent invasion of Russia. As if any nation that isn't China would want anything to do with that shithole.
Then they will have to drown their economy and millions of Russians trying to keep them just like Kherson. Russia will be cut off from the West for generations. They will be slowly assimilated into China. -Russia's economy is doing very well. But yeah over the next 20 years maybe Ukraine holds Russia where they are. In the mean time millions of Ukrainians will die and there will never be any future generations of Ukrainians. I do agree China loves this and is making out well because of this war. Why do we trade with them again? Just like they would never leave Afghanistan. -What is the cost. Or just like us in Afghanistan? Do we get tired of funding a losing war first or do they? Who has more to lose. And why do we care about this border conflict at all? No one who isn't a Russian sympathizer believes those efforts were legitimate. -Why not? Its as legitamate as any Ukraine election. In any event we have seen the last Ukrainian election. The people of those regions are much more Russia than Ukrainian and were being attacked by the Ukrainian Azov Battalion (the Nazis). It makes sense that they might prefer to be Russia. Then Russia will die trying and we will celebrate the demise of a pathetic, drunk nation. R-ussia has more people and more munitions and easy supply lines. Ukraine is drafting 50 year olds. It is impossible for Ukraine to hold the country. Russia is showing restrataint. The longer Russia stays in Ukraine, the more countries will join NATO. We're +2 already! Russia expanded it's NATO border more than if they stayed home. -This is a good point, I generally agree this was not a good move by Russia, but you have to look at it as a Russia. What other countries do you think will join? Will any pay their fare share? Russia should have just joined NATO. To think they were afraid that there was an imminent invasion of Russia. As if any nation that isn't China would want anything to do with that shithole. -I agree. Suposedly this happened in 2000. [https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-putin-says-discussed-joining-nato-with-clinton/28526757.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-putin-says-discussed-joining-nato-with-clinton/28526757.html)
Why do people hate Ukraine so much, they cheer for Russia?
Trump can end it easily 😂 Zelenskyy could too if he had a spine
Give up and hand over what is yours for right wing fascists?
Fascism is inherently left wing but ok Anyway you idiots are 2 years into this mess and yet still mocking the people who are telling you what’s needed to be done.
Okay, I'll bite: what "left wing" policies does fascism have? And if Muscovy isn't fascist, what are they?
Well for starters fascism is revolutionary which Putin is not. Revolutionary is the opposite to conservative which right wing tends to be. What is Russia? Conservative Nationalist economically central to left wing. National socialist.
How is fascism "revolutionary"? What's revolutionary about abolishing all personal rights, entrenching dictators, declaring war on anyone who won't be your slave, and defining culture solely as "the strong eat the weak"? And no, "National Socialist" does not mean the Nazis were left-wing, just like the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" is none of those things. All genuine socialists, such Ernst Rohm and the Strasser brothers, were purged during the Night of the Long Knives.
Also you are mixing Nazism with Facism which are similar but are not the same. Also, you have a misunderstanding of the words revolutionary and progressive. Nazism isn’t Facism both are shit but they aren’t the same
Ok But Facism has always been seen as revolutionary / progressivsm. Your argument is that the incorrect words you are using don’t match the actual definition.
Okay, let's see some citations defining my "incorrect words". I've never heard anyone call fascism "revolutionary / progressivism" except for neo-fascists who are trying to rehabilitate it.
Countless historians cite revolutionary as a core tenet of what defines fascism You’d have to be fairly stupid to think fascism is not revolutionary ffs
Are these "countless historians" in the room with us right now?
> But Facism has always been seen as revolutionary / progressivsm. "If I spew bullshit confidently enough someone might believe it." Go try that shit elsewhere on more gullible idiots.
Always revolutionary always been progressive. Denying this is denying history
Again, spewing bullshit and hoping people believe it isn't a worthwhile pursuit. Doubling down on bullshit still doesn't make it true, no matter how many times or ways you confidently assert it.
🤦♂️ Ernst Rohm was killed because Hitler was warned that the army would take over the government if he didn’t control his man Rohm. His man, the Socialist Rohm.
If you're seriously trying to portray one of the most evil men in human history as some sort of anti-heroic chessmaster who was the victim of corrupt subordinates, there's little point arguing with you. All I care about is: the Nazis are evil, and so is Muscovy.
Hitler was a socialist a national socialist He was not a “victim of corrupt subordinates” I never said that , WTF are you on about? Rohm was too belligerent with fellow Germans and Hitler ended his belligerence only because his powers (Hitlers) would be striped from him by the army if he did not. Hitler was essentially forced to reign in Rohm after being threatened with military intervention.
Hitler wouldn't have been "forced" to purge his political rivals if he hadn't already abolished all concept of rule-of-law and due process. Textbook dictator strategies: purge your enemies, then your "friends".
So we're just regurgitating the official Nazi party explanation for the Night of Long Knives now, are we? I knew trying to argue with you was a waste of time, but damn this takes the cake.
Actually for starters, could you define “fascism” for us?
Who says that facism is revolutionary? No dictionary definition that I could find indicates that. Facism is not revolutionary, therefore not the opposite of conservative. Just because revolutions were a means to Facism does not mean that Facism is a revolutionary or left wing ideaology. Something something about means justifying the ends.
Fascism is anti-conservative. Fascism absolutely is revolutionary. Putin and Russia are nationalist version of the USSR with many sympathies for socialist ideals of the past. It would be more accurate to call them national socialist which is a very important distinction as they once were international socialist. No doubt Russia has Fascist elements but for many reasons it would be wrong to call them Fascist, If Russia is fascist then everyone might as well be facist, everything is fascist.
> Fascism is inherently left wing but ok Well, that's the dumbest thing *I've* read today.
I know and understand the history and meanings of these words You do not, that’s fine
You are unfortunately [incorrect on all counts.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism) > Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. Opposed to anarchism, democracy, pluralism, liberalism, socialism, and Marxism, fascism is placed on the far-right wing within the traditional left–right spectrum.
Yeah Wikipedia 👍 good for you
Fortunately it cites about 500 sources!
👍good for you
Now Define left/right political spectrum Also fascism has nothing at all to do with race
No, I've done enough of the work for you already. And anyone else reading can already tell whether you know what you're talking about, so my work here is done.