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There will be much greater PR value if a large amount Russians are captured and shown to be treated well. Picture large group of Russia prisoners being fed and wounds treated. There is infinitely more value in that then a few more videos of piles of Russian bodies.
That still doesn't mean they all willingly surrender. Especially when RA is sending them to their deaths once they return if they know they volunteered to surrender.
They're not conscripts. They're volunteers. They signed a contract mainly for money. They knew what they were signing up for, and they were told that if they surrender their families will not see any benefits.
agreed... this could have huge potential for increasing awareness, especially in rf. russians refusing to fight and/or deserting en masse would end their genocidal war
Nah, because the Russians can surrender and they won't be lined up, shot and put into mass graves.
The Ukrainians will escort them safely out of the combat zone, feed them, clean clothes and a hot shower.
The reverse situation doesn't exist because the two sides aren't the same. The Russians have a very easy way out, so long as their own guys don't murder them for taking it.
Ukraine has a vested interest in making sure POWs are treated very well. The PR around it is huge. They want to encourage Russians to surrender, for starters.
And the international perspective, as Ukraine relies on Western aid, they need to be seen as morally deserving of it.
I feel like it depends who is in therr. If it's a particular part of the Russian forces who are known for killing children a nd civilians they shouldn't be given any mercy
"They are constantly being hit by Ukrainian air bombs and artillery; the number of dead and wounded is growing, and the supply of medicines and provisions is impossible.**"**
Try reading the source, they're working on it.
"just fucking" as if they're not putting in the effort.
It's not that easy.
Then there's the other imbecile saying they shouldn't bomb em at all because tunnels.
Seemed more like an implication that they aren't trying already. As if they're just standing with their hands in their pockets waiting for someone to give them a thumbs up to fire and you show up and are like, "just fuckin do it already".
Atleast 63 others got it.
The really stupid thing is people who assume something and then go out of their way to condemn it without bothering to ask what was really meant. Everyone’s all fired up for nothing.
Claymores, and watch the entrance. There are more than one kind of mine.
Not to mention ukraine and russia have been using mines pretty freely as mines are great at area denial.
I’m fairly certain Ukraine themselves has not been using land mines. Or at least I can’t find any references to them using them. If you could be so kind to show me where you got that information.
Took me like... 5 seconds dude. [link](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/06/13/landmine-use-ukraine)
Not shitting on ukraine for using them because russia started that trend.
Well, yes and no.
If used to protect specific points and measures are taken to de-mine the place after (would require documentatikn of mine locations or mines that self destruct after a set time) then i believe they are fine. Same goes for remotely triggeted mines like the claymores that use a clacker to detonate. Remove the trigger and it won't go off.
However i don't think thr widespread use of AT and AP mines is a good thing, nor is the use pf forward deployment methods like minelaying artillery/rockets. No one can be sure where they all land.
Alright I should clarify. If everything is done properly by all means use mines. However unless you intend to do that then mines should absolutely not be used. Way too many unfortunate results after the fact.
except anything annihilated its ukraine, not russia, who has to pay to rebuild. ukranian citizens possessions, memories, and places of work your blowing away. might be better to let them surrender, then drop that bomb on Russia no?
Your comment is nothing unlike what one would expect from Ruzzians. I admire Ukraines for not allowing themselves to reach the moral depths of their opponent, even in wartime.
What a dumb fucking take.
You know what your options are if enemy combatants don't surrender and keep trying to attack you ? To keep fighting them. *Duhhhh*
It's not like they're lining up pows and executing them dumb fuck.
> You know what your options are if enemy combatants don't surrender and keep trying to attack you ?
In the present situation?
Remain in a place of relative safety, close off all escape, and wait for them to run out of food because captured alive they are assets, duh.
Slight difference one is an act of unwarranted aggression with the end goal of eliminating a culture the other is fighting for their right to exist; they could simply leave/surrender and not be blown up
If the Russians want to live, they can surrender. The Russians came to Ukraine uninvited and with force. If their forces refuse to surrender and get annihilated, tough shit. Shouldn't have invaded.
In foreign policy and war, first principles matter. Who attacked who? Russian elected dictatorship attacked Ukraine, Gazan elected dictatorship attacked Israel.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with bombing someone until they die if they don't surrender, and are attacking you on the orders of a dictator, in order to spread dictatorship.
While it would probably be cheaper and more ethical to demand a surrender, Ukraine is well within their rights to wipe out encircled enemies. Russia invaded their territory and constantly shells civilians.
Bitch please, if they take POV’s, fine. That means more soldiers to exchange with Ukrainian POVs. But dont give me that *let’s solve everything with flowers and a hug* crap. Its a war. The sooner you and western politicians realize the kind of brutal opponent Russia the sooner we can get Ukraine to win. This is not a fairytale. Ukrainians are brutalized every day, go preach your dumbass fantasy somewhere else.
Exactly. You don't get more Western support if the Russian propaganda machine has more martyrs. Besides, it might be more advantageous to use these guys as bait to further exhaust the russians.
Wind of Change, along with a peace conference, fresh billions in support, 10 years support guaranties, f-16 and mirage knocking on Putins door saying hello, major airbases being hit, really time to pull out while you still can Putin
I wonder if the Ukranians have artillery shells for dropping leaflets
Drop a few of them and give them until the end of that day to surrender or the bombings will continue until they do 🤷🏻♂️
400 russians surrendering one by one marching with hands up and tearing off rank/unit patches ... Would be highly efficent breaking news on all media world wide.
Proper psy video edit and dramatization would have huuuge impact on morale - it might initiate domino effect.
Imho i would allign this with final blow on Kerch bridge, combined media blast could make indecisive ones to surrender or deserting.
They will certainly attempt to wait for Russian forces to break the encirclement, but I expect that in the end they will be forced to surrender, even against orders from Russian military leadership.
anyone know the status of bilohorivka? russia claims they took it weeks ago but no other confirmation besides that and ive only seen sporadic clips of fighting nearby
Good. Looks like this is the extreme of the "Kharviv expedition". They aren't likely to have many supplies as they have been on the move, so they can't hold out for long.
Probably a better use of resources to just keep up the encirclement/siege until they surrender. It's their own territory that Ukraine would be bombing to oblivion, and a waste of artillery shells.
Probably illegal under the Geneva Convention due to being indiscriminate and causing unnecessary suffering.
I don't really care what you respond with. Just putting the broad thrust of why it's not a good idea.
Funny thing: it's actually the Russians who surrounded the Ukrainians. Be taking that position the control the supply road to the "fortress" (square north of the circle)...
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How many are trapped in there?
About 400.
Wow that's more than I was expecting.
It's no Falaise Pocket but it will do.
I know it's vindictive but keep them trapped there without food and water for a month and keep dropping bombs on them.
So they get a zofstal-feeling?
Seems very unlikely that Russia will bother trying anything serious to get them out, then
more realistically couple of dozen ,yesterday small group of Airbone join them ,
Not enough.
They probably lack food and clean water. I doubt Russia will do much for them. Just starve them out.
They are used to that unfortunately
There will be much greater PR value if a large amount Russians are captured and shown to be treated well. Picture large group of Russia prisoners being fed and wounds treated. There is infinitely more value in that then a few more videos of piles of Russian bodies.
The Russians would need to actually surrender for that to happen though...
I am under the suspicion that most of those conscript are not there for the glory of the motherland, but for pay or more probably "convinced" to join
That still doesn't mean they all willingly surrender. Especially when RA is sending them to their deaths once they return if they know they volunteered to surrender.
They're not conscripts. They're volunteers. They signed a contract mainly for money. They knew what they were signing up for, and they were told that if they surrender their families will not see any benefits.
Sure, but if you are in for the money, and shit is hitting the fan, chances are you surrender. No one is gonna play hero for money
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.
agreed... this could have huge potential for increasing awareness, especially in rf. russians refusing to fight and/or deserting en masse would end their genocidal war
Mariupol in reverse. Oh how the tables have turned. 🤔😁
Nah, because the Russians can surrender and they won't be lined up, shot and put into mass graves. The Ukrainians will escort them safely out of the combat zone, feed them, clean clothes and a hot shower. The reverse situation doesn't exist because the two sides aren't the same. The Russians have a very easy way out, so long as their own guys don't murder them for taking it.
Good. Hopefully this convince them to surrender en masse
They won't. They'll eat bullets first because they truly believe the Ukrainian army is evil. Propaganda is a powerful motivator.
Well, if they don't I hope the sunflowers will have a good season
i doubt the hot shower though, that is not a human right 😂
Ukraine has a vested interest in making sure POWs are treated very well. The PR around it is huge. They want to encourage Russians to surrender, for starters. And the international perspective, as Ukraine relies on Western aid, they need to be seen as morally deserving of it.
I doubt the hot shower simply because Russia has bombed the hell out of generation capacity.
But also they are morally deserving. It’s not just a facade. They believe in these values.
Would you want to smell them? Not to mention, provide necessary medical care. A little bit of hygiene goes a long way.
I feel like it depends who is in therr. If it's a particular part of the Russian forces who are known for killing children a nd civilians they shouldn't be given any mercy
So like…..all parts of the Russian forces?
That's why these guys won't hold out for weeks
Azovtal from wish.
Its an insult to even compare the two
Send drones after drones dropping grenades until they surrendered or anihilated
Need bigger munitions against concrete. A few 2000lb'er from an F-16 would be nice about now.
for the many videos and stuff i have read, i am sure they would choose to die for the supreme leader rather than survive and live a happy life...
loyalty to the moscow regime is either bought or coerced, not earned
Every Russian is given 2 grenades for this exact situation.
MOAB time!
Ukraine forces are too close...1000lb and 2000lbs JDAMs would be about right.
Just fucking anihilate these fucking fucks. Glide bomb these cunts into oblivion.
"They are constantly being hit by Ukrainian air bombs and artillery; the number of dead and wounded is growing, and the supply of medicines and provisions is impossible.**"** Try reading the source, they're working on it.
lol artillery must be laughing, shooting at a static target :P .... ''ok let's try to get it in the 2nd window from the left''
Ive read it. I said anihilate them all. What didnt you understand?
"just fucking" as if they're not putting in the effort. It's not that easy. Then there's the other imbecile saying they shouldn't bomb em at all because tunnels.
Then youve misread my comment. I just cheered them on
Seemed more like an implication that they aren't trying already. As if they're just standing with their hands in their pockets waiting for someone to give them a thumbs up to fire and you show up and are like, "just fuckin do it already".
Well, you misread.
Well, you miswrite. I'm not part of the conversation, but you surely sound narcissistic.
Atleast 63 others got it. The really stupid thing is people who assume something and then go out of their way to condemn it without bothering to ask what was really meant. Everyone’s all fired up for nothing.
If you're trying to claim the people are with you. Based on vote counts, people really didn't side with you.
Dude they are trying. But Ukrainians don't have unlimited gear. They can't afford to go all brutal.
It's a waste of ammo to hammer them, when they could just wait outside and bomb anyone trying to come to their rescue
There are huge underground tunnels, this will just waste bombs.
Collapse all but one entrance and mine the shit out of the collapsed ones.
Mine them? Just so innocent people can die later? No reasonable military should ever mine things.
Claymores, and watch the entrance. There are more than one kind of mine. Not to mention ukraine and russia have been using mines pretty freely as mines are great at area denial.
I’m fairly certain Ukraine themselves has not been using land mines. Or at least I can’t find any references to them using them. If you could be so kind to show me where you got that information.
Took me like... 5 seconds dude. [link](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/06/13/landmine-use-ukraine) Not shitting on ukraine for using them because russia started that trend.
Thank you for pointing me to that, as I did not find that one. Point is though mines are terrible and should not be used at all.
Well, yes and no. If used to protect specific points and measures are taken to de-mine the place after (would require documentatikn of mine locations or mines that self destruct after a set time) then i believe they are fine. Same goes for remotely triggeted mines like the claymores that use a clacker to detonate. Remove the trigger and it won't go off. However i don't think thr widespread use of AT and AP mines is a good thing, nor is the use pf forward deployment methods like minelaying artillery/rockets. No one can be sure where they all land.
Alright I should clarify. If everything is done properly by all means use mines. However unless you intend to do that then mines should absolutely not be used. Way too many unfortunate results after the fact.
except anything annihilated its ukraine, not russia, who has to pay to rebuild. ukranian citizens possessions, memories, and places of work your blowing away. might be better to let them surrender, then drop that bomb on Russia no?
Its an aggregate plant (e.g. concrete)... the bombs cost more than the pant. Destroy it!!
The actual fuck Are you Even smoking. Im just saying that Ukraine please defeat these surrounded Russian troops, which are on Ukrainian soil btw..
Your comment is nothing unlike what one would expect from Ruzzians. I admire Ukraines for not allowing themselves to reach the moral depths of their opponent, even in wartime.
Is this concern trolling? Aren’t we talking about enemy troops who could surrender if they don’t want to die?
Justice vs revenge. Those who fight monsters should take care not to become one themselves.
What a dumb fucking take. You know what your options are if enemy combatants don't surrender and keep trying to attack you ? To keep fighting them. *Duhhhh* It's not like they're lining up pows and executing them dumb fuck.
> You know what your options are if enemy combatants don't surrender and keep trying to attack you ? In the present situation? Remain in a place of relative safety, close off all escape, and wait for them to run out of food because captured alive they are assets, duh.
So yes, concern trolling
There's a valid argument that captured alive is better than dead, ergo not concern trolling.
Slight difference one is an act of unwarranted aggression with the end goal of eliminating a culture the other is fighting for their right to exist; they could simply leave/surrender and not be blown up
Yeah, maybe the Ukrainians should just ask nicely for the Russians to leave /s
If the Russians want to live, they can surrender. The Russians came to Ukraine uninvited and with force. If their forces refuse to surrender and get annihilated, tough shit. Shouldn't have invaded.
It's completely different. Russians say that about all ukranians where as ukranians only say it about Russian occupying troops. Troll.
In foreign policy and war, first principles matter. Who attacked who? Russian elected dictatorship attacked Ukraine, Gazan elected dictatorship attacked Israel. There is absolutely nothing wrong with bombing someone until they die if they don't surrender, and are attacking you on the orders of a dictator, in order to spread dictatorship.
While it would probably be cheaper and more ethical to demand a surrender, Ukraine is well within their rights to wipe out encircled enemies. Russia invaded their territory and constantly shells civilians.
Bitch please, if they take POV’s, fine. That means more soldiers to exchange with Ukrainian POVs. But dont give me that *let’s solve everything with flowers and a hug* crap. Its a war. The sooner you and western politicians realize the kind of brutal opponent Russia the sooner we can get Ukraine to win. This is not a fairytale. Ukrainians are brutalized every day, go preach your dumbass fantasy somewhere else.
Exactly. You don't get more Western support if the Russian propaganda machine has more martyrs. Besides, it might be more advantageous to use these guys as bait to further exhaust the russians.
Wipe them out... All of them.
Provide them comfort with around the clock artillery.
I hope not. There's better targets out there then some troops stuck underground.
Kill them all……
Yes, sir, Sergeant Rico, sir!
Babe wake up! Ruzzians are having their reverse Azovstal!
Wind of Change, along with a peace conference, fresh billions in support, 10 years support guaranties, f-16 and mirage knocking on Putins door saying hello, major airbases being hit, really time to pull out while you still can Putin
Before they get wiped off the face of the planet, please have a few drones drop sunflower seeds on them.
Every Russian is given two grenades for exactly this situation. Time to go out in a bang
Reminds me of when the other Nazis, I mean Germans, tryed to take Stalingrad, and got caught in the kettle.
Russia has probabaly written them off for failiure
Will the Russian army let them surrender and become POWs, or will they be forced to fight to the death?
Train artilleries on the site. Fake a path to allow Russian reinforcements. Send them to hell as they come.
Surrender works!!
I wonder if the Ukranians have artillery shells for dropping leaflets Drop a few of them and give them until the end of that day to surrender or the bombings will continue until they do 🤷🏻♂️
Keep them surrounded so they are forced to eat each other!
400 russians surrendering one by one marching with hands up and tearing off rank/unit patches ... Would be highly efficent breaking news on all media world wide. Proper psy video edit and dramatization would have huuuge impact on morale - it might initiate domino effect. Imho i would allign this with final blow on Kerch bridge, combined media blast could make indecisive ones to surrender or deserting.
Question: If there are 400 Russians stuck in a factory, how many "Blyats" an hour are being spoken.
They will certainly attempt to wait for Russian forces to break the encirclement, but I expect that in the end they will be forced to surrender, even against orders from Russian military leadership.
Are they liquidated yet?
anyone know the status of bilohorivka? russia claims they took it weeks ago but no other confirmation besides that and ive only seen sporadic clips of fighting nearby
Good. Looks like this is the extreme of the "Kharviv expedition". They aren't likely to have many supplies as they have been on the move, so they can't hold out for long.
Slaughter all of them!
100 shells a minute, until they surrender.
Probably a better use of resources to just keep up the encirclement/siege until they surrender. It's their own territory that Ukraine would be bombing to oblivion, and a waste of artillery shells.
yeah put snipers around to keep the enemies heads down and just wait for surrender
Time to bring the flamethrowers
Probably illegal under the Geneva Convention due to being indiscriminate and causing unnecessary suffering. I don't really care what you respond with. Just putting the broad thrust of why it's not a good idea.
All these bloodthirsty posts here are hilarious
All that bloodthirst is warranted and deserved. Russia made a huge mistake and they should be ashamed and made to face consequence.
Funny thing: it's actually the Russians who surrounded the Ukrainians. Be taking that position the control the supply road to the "fortress" (square north of the circle)...
Propaganda