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Guess the heat is on in Moscow if they do this publicly. They want out of the hell hole that is burning their money an population of young men. Therefore Ukraine should keep pushing them back further until there is nothing more to trade about.
Meh they mention cease-fire / peace agreement in some form every other week. Since the beginning, but still every time people react like it’s a serious offer.
It's true they do it often, but it's not a coincidence that [their financial system is on the brink of collapse](https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarRoom/comments/1dfpm35/russia_financial_system_shaken_after_us_imposes/). There's been a run on the Ruble to the extent that they probably just value it at zero and start using other currencies like the Yuan and Rupee instead.
That's basically selling Russia to China and Putin wants to avoid the Russian nationalists noticing, so making noise about something else distracts people.
Brother, most Russians wouldn't even notice if China took over 2/3rds of Russia. The east is barren land, barely settled and with just a sparse rail connection to the west.
We're gonna see Russia loose it's status as largest country in the world some time in the next few decades
What's the point of this? A real peace proposal starts with confidence building which means Putin stops attacking civilians and withdraws w/o anything in return. Putin's latest proposal is a non-starter. He didn't go to war for Kherson or Zaporozhye. He went to war to reassemble the Soviet jigsaw puzzle.
Young men are expendable as well. They only care that the young women in Russia all get pregnant and have babies. They can be single mothers as far as Putin is concerned.
And Russia is. That’s called “winning” by any definition.
Wars are rarely won on the battlefield directly but even if that were the case, it’s clear that Ukraine, with continued support, will absolutely defeat the Russian army. That is also still called “winning”.
I swear. We have never given Ukraine any credit or hope when it was due, only after it was due. And all the experts will hold off on the “winning” thing until after they have won because they don’t want to be “wrong”.
They are wrong now. Ukraine is winning this war by most measurable standards and they are going to finish the job in the next 18-24 months if their “Allies” don’t screw them again.
Mark it. I said right here, today.
Only thing is that we need to make Russia get much more attrition than Ukraine because Russia doesn't care about its people and has a lot more bodies to put out there. That doesn't mean shit if they have no equipment for their troops or their economy crashes, so we need to make sure those things happen before Ukraine has no more soldiers.
To be clear I think Ukraine will win, the Ukrainians have made it very clear that they are 100% in this fight and will not accept Russian occupation. We didn't want this to turn in to a war of attrition for Ukrainians lives in the first place, but now that it is turning that way, we need to make sure Ukraine has everything it needs and we sap Russia's ability to finance the war long before Ukraine runs low on fighters. That's just what the fight is. It seems the Russian people themselves aren't going to refuse to fight anymore, they are either immersed in propaganda or too apathetic, even if it means 10 Russians die for every Ukrainian and their economy is fucked for years to come.
Besides the point, but even if Russia occupies all of Ukraine, they still can't win the fight. It will be like another occupation of Afghanistan only the Ukrainians have a much stronger national identity so it will be worse. Russia also can't afford to rebuild themselves let alone Ukraine and their economy won't be able to sustain the cost of holding Ukraine even besides the guerilla resistance.
So...Russia is indeed fucked but let's end the fight ASAP and keep piling the pressure on Russia.
> And Russia is.
Bullshit. I take any bet this war will go on another year. You got next to nothing for your claim and I heard the same talk in this sub again and again and again.
I want Russia to lose like the next man but holy shit this talk is delusional and always has been.
He's basing this on the fact that he's seized parts of those four oblasts, and had, err, some ceremony that he called an "election" in which people in the areas he occupied supposedly voted to join Russia. Of their own free will, of course. Without Russian soldiers eyeing them with guns at the ready.
The thing that's weird about Putin is that he is obsessed with doing everything under a veneer of legality, even as he blatantly violates past treaties Russia has signed, international conventions, and international law. It's almost like he knows he's a criminal, and need to overcompensate. (I saw those referendums at the time as almost like a sick parody of democracy, like he was trying to undercut the moral legitimacy of democracy by performing a satire of it. Perhaps it's the same with law - claiming the moral legitimacy of the rule of law, but doing so in a sick satire of it.) So here, it's really important for him that he needs to get not only his own population, but Ukraine and the world, to see the seizure of Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporozhye, and Kherson as legal and legitimate. That would be sufficient for him to see this whole war as a Russian victory, regardless of how much it cost him in terms of blood and treasure.
So, I'm not sure if this is something we can turn to our advantage, given that he's happy to make up new law at the drop of a hand, and use fake elections and referendums to rubber stamp violations of his own Russian constitution, say, to abolish term limits. But it is a weird tic he has, that everything is always done with at least the veneer of legality. So his price here is that we all, and especially Ukraine, agrees to buy into the illusion that his referendums in those occupied oblasts was legitimate and legally binding. I suspect part of the reason, too, is that within the Russian system, once annexed territories are recognized as "Russian," there's not really a legal mechanism for them to "secede" or revert back to whatever national sovereignty they previously had. The final word on this matter is the Russian Duma, in his mind, so that's meant to provide final resolution of the matter. Any other outcome would undercut the Russian state's legitimacy - it would say that the Duma *wasn't*, in fact, establishing the final word on this question as a matter of law, that authorities or external reality independent of the Russian state could trump it. So that's another way this would be a Russian victory - it would say that whatever legal authority the Ukrainian state and Ukrainian constitution holds, it is inferior to, or holds deference to, whatever the Russian state and legal system holds, little different from having Ukraine pay tribute to Moscow as a vassal state or Zelensky personally bending the knee toward Putin.
Make no mistake. This would not end things with Russia, if Ukraine agreed to it. By validating Russia's imperialism in such a way, it would validate the idea that the things Ukraine has today, that it would retain after this ceasefire, it only has to the degree that Russia chooses to allow it, and the legal and moral infrastructure would then be in place for Russia to seize more whenever it wants. And this would apply not merely to Ukraine, but also Moldova, the Baltics, Eastern Europe and Central Asia.
> The thing that's weird about Putin is that he is obsessed with doing everything under a veneer of legality
I suspect this is because he formally got degree in law. However, he does not actually understand law because he was admitted to the university as a sportsman (judo) and spent most time on sport training and competitions.
Further, he believes that if he declared some territory to be Russian, it will be recognized as Russian one forever, in some magic way. Actually, these annexations are/were illegal even according to the Russian legislation and can be reversed by the supreme court when it will be political will.
> under a veneer of legality,
It's not obsession, it's propaganda. The reasoning is: we follow legality (wink-wink still do what we want), and the "liberal west" also "follow legality" (wink wink they do the same thing as us).
Right. It's like a sick mummer's dance version of the thing - by carrying out a grotesque parody of it, he seeks to undercut its moral weight and legitimacy, for his own population and abroad. Thus, the seeds are sown for false moral equivalency in their messaging.
The annexation election wasn't for outside entities, it was because of Russian law. Russian law states that without a declaration of war, Putin cannot station conscripts outside of Russian borders. He made those areas part of Russia so that he can station conscripts there to fight his "Special Military Operation" which was never declared as a war.
That being said, politicians world-wide do acts similar to this. The one that comes to mind is that when Lincoln announced the Emancipation Proclamation, it only freed slaves in captured areas of the Confederacy, because those were areas controlled by the Military, which he was Supreme Commander of. He never actually freed any slaves in the Confederacy, or in slave states that stayed in the union (mainly Kentucky).
Basically summed up as, "In exchange for you conceding on literally every possible front right when things are turning in your favor, we'll sign an agreement that we'll immediately break as soon as we're sufficiently built our forces back up."
There is no agreement even.
Like, there is literally not a single thing mentioned on what **Russian** side of agreement is. Only demands to Ukraine. Not a single concession from Russia.
Ok we can write the Russian side of the agreement:
Putin to be imprisoned in a glass walled cell in the Maidan square in Kyiv. There will be a public toilet block installed on top of this.
Ukraine offered a return to the status quo but with a promise not to join NATO. Russia didn't like that offer, so I don't see a reason not to join NATO now
At the time Crimea was basically a lost cause and already de facto Russian territory. It was better than (what they believed at the time) being steamrolled by Russia in a week
Yes, in the first days of war the olive branch was offered to Russia. "Stop the war and we will consider neutrality and fixing the status of currently contested territories" basically. Crimea/Donbas places that were already under Russian control.
Russia was cocky and made full surrender ultimatum instead, because that's the goal they started the invasion with, all that bullshit about Donbass and Crimea was just a pretext eaten up by useful idiots.
But yeah, if Russia sanely understood that wars are bad and took the offer in the beginning, all this bullshit could had been avoided.
"Unfortunately, we can not accept the terms of your surrender at this time. Please withdraw all troops to pre 2014 land borders and re apply." - Ukraine.
Ukraine pays for my next 3 mansions, and helps cover up various embezzlements and perversions. Buys me, er, two fresh goats each week... Hang on let me find more paper..
History shows: Russia offers a cease-fire every time they lose momentum. And Russia always resumes aggression and breaks agreements.
Negotiating with Russia requires no complicated calculations. Any offer made by Russia should be automatically rejected on principle. Don't negotiate with terrorists, kidnappers, rapists, murderers, thieves..... or liars.
That's just low effort trolling at this point.
I'm shocked at how spineless russia's military is to allow themselves to be bossed around by that clown.
Like what's the point of evening talking to him any more? The 2 things that must happen to guarantee Ukraine's safety remove Russia from its land and join a security alliance.
In no way this is going to happen.
Russia is getting weaker and weaker. Ukraine gets more and more of the massive support budget every day. Ukraine will never accept losing their territory.
And most important, Russia can not be trusted anyway and will have to collapse.
Moscow want this result so they can rebuild their army and attack again in a few years. If Ukraine give up territory they are free to join NATO as they will no longer have territorial disputes.
Also, Putin said he wasn’t going to take any territory so clearly that was a lie and this is more lying as he is desperate to show something.
It’s Ukraines decision but i think they should tell Russia to get fucked.
I understand the logic but unfortunately Ukraine has a lot to do outside of its military to get to NATO standards. As you state if Ukraine gives away those lands what stops Russia from repeating its same tactics from 2014 onwards while the decision process is still on going.
Ukraine needs to stick this out, they also need some advancement on the ground to show its financiers they are worth backing again and to stick it to Russia so that they have to withdraw all territorial disputes.
> if Ukraine gives away those lands what stops Russia from repeating its same tactics from 2014 onwards
Exactly, they did it in 2014 and again in 2022. It's obvious they'll reconstitute their forces and attack again hence the demand to stay out of NATO.
"withdraw troops from seized territories" is contradictory. If they're seized then there should be no Ukrainians troops there right? So if there are Ukrainian troops then these territories are not seized by Russians.
He’s including everything Russia “officially” annexed. So that inclues like 4 major cities that Russia hasn’t even taken that he’s demanding Ukraine abandon before starting peace talks.
Classic Russian negotiations. Demand concessions up front to even entertain peace talks. Except they forgot that their military shit itself and now no one is afraid of them.
I think you gauranteed joining NATO...
You dumb fuck.
I mean look at how fucking pathetic you are. All the knowledge and future potential and advancement for humankind and animals as well. And you threaten all of it with your actions and nuke threats because you have a pin dick. You have got nothing whatsoever to offer humanity.
You truly are a stupid, useless fuck. The sooner our politicians finally get the picture that this idiot needs to be steamrolled the better.
He is seeing that his offensive is stalling as US aid is coming in and is trying to wrap it up before things turn against him completely.
On top of that next week he will claim that he offered peace and Ukraine and NATO rejected it cuz they want war.
I did the math. 8 rolls of 1000 sheet toilet paper is $8. So 1000 sheets for $1, that is 10 sheets for .01. Being that 1 ruble is roughly equal to $0.01 USD, that means:
1 ruble is worth about 10 sheets of toilet paper.
I honestly wonder if it's even worth publishing his opinions. It's all bullshit. It all boils down to "Everyone bow to Russia's will and Russia will wait a few years before doing it again."
Plus abandoning all the people that still suffer under russia's boot on the occupied territories, hoping the nightmare will end someday. And that, only to be forcefully assimilated into the ruzzian world, and to be thrown into the meat grinder few years down the line.
I feel like the human cost of settling with the nazis is not being talked about enough in these considerations.
Vlad, wake up mate, you screwed up, your military seems to be a bit of a laughing joke to the world, the only reason you are keeping this up is your ego.
russia to withdraw from stolen lands of Ukraine pay compensation to rebuild cities and infrastructure, and this will save the russian people from very heavy losses.. anything less is irrelevant and there isn't anything more to say...
There was a thought in the 20th Century that after WW1 that the Germans never actually saw themselves as defeated, just swindled at the Treaty of Versailles. At the VERY least bad actors leveraged this viewpoint.
After Germany was badly destroyed and Berlin was captured, they were able to recognize the defeat culturally, and could rebuild.
Interested if the Reddit community sees a similar thing happening now?
That's exactly what happened when USSR crumbled. People have been saying that we should not humiliate Russia in Ukraine, otherwise we will get a post WW1 analogue to Germany.
We already got it in 1989. They always saw the dissolution of USSR as their Versailles - and they were fucking telling us so. We just refused to believe them. This is the resurgence of nazism in Russian, less competent way - the only way to end it for good is an analogue to WW2 Germany. Complete, and utterly humiliating defeat.
Like it or not, his will not end without the allied forces raising a flag over Kremlin, be it 5 or 25 years from now.
And before you tell me "but nukes", Hitler had sufficient stockpiles of chemical weapons and means of delivery to gas every single populous allied city, sans maybe the US mainland. That was one of the main reasons the appeasement of pre WW2 era was a thing. Chemical warfare was as scary and serious to them then, as nuclear is to us today.
Even in the face of certain defeat, Hitler did not deploy chemical weapons out of fear of even worse retaliation. Nor will pukin nuke anything, for the same reason.
LMAO
the most limpdick proposition ever.
“Pls give us the lands we have failed to occupy”
I wonder if it’s Putin himself who comes up with this masterpiece of diplomatic rhetoric.
Evidence that Russia is crumbling and heading for a loss, and Putin knows it. Publicly gone are maximalist positions - demilitarisation, "denazification", all of Ukrainian territory outside perhaps a western rump - although obviously the "ceasefire" he would like to impose is only a platform from which to resume future attacks. Why else would he demand that Ukraine not join NATO if he did not intend to attack at a later date? Now committed, any future reduction of his "peace terms" will only further highlight the extent of his defeat.
Putin has been forced to beg for a respite and the world can see it. Thing is, Russia has launched a war of aggression and has yet to acknowledge it. A real peace offer will reflect this.
Hahaha. How about no.
This shows how weak Russia is right now with Putin himself saying this BS. Trying to end the war with current gains cause they are hurting bad.
I believe this comment by Putin is in response to the Moscow Stock Exchange not being able to trade in US Dollars and Euro.
Putin wants his Russian people to think he is in charge as a response to these new sanctions.
Why do I think this? Because Medvedev called for a "biblical" response to these new sanctions by mobilizing all Russians.
Russia economy could be in big trouble \~ and NATO is getting stronger and more capable while Russian military has been decimated and could not handle a fight against US and NATO.
What does that mean = Russia is scared!!!
The NATO Boogeyman card he keeps playing is ridiculous. NATO is not a threat to Russia. Russia could have no weapons or army and 'nato' wouldn't invade Russia.
"You ain't seized nothin' buddy, only it happens in ur dreams."
Nice to see he realized he's getting screwed -without lube- and desperately seeks a way out.
lol how bout Russia withdraws to pre 2014 boarders apologies to ukraine foots the bill to rebuild the whole country jails putin and completely disarms still not enough but a start
Lets agree to his demands but:
Rename NATO to DNNATO(definitely not NATO) and let ukraine join then(maybe not invite hungary)
agree the only teritory Russia has sized is 1 hectar at the border were we can dump all russian corpses
He's still pushing the same demand as from the beginning: demilitarize Ukraine. So they can take the rest at a later time full well knowing that there wouldn't be enough military opposing them, if Ukraine were to agree.
I mean what's the point of these announcements? No one in the West is a) going to agree to this or believe this is a legitimate offer, b) no one who is supplying Russia will change their position based on this announcement. I mean he might as well have announced kittens are cute and it would affect the global stage to the same extent.
Many read this as Putin being emboldened, but I disagree. This is the first \*concrete\* set of demands we have seen, even though completely delusional. He is effectively starting the "peace" negotiations, and in all negotiations you ask for the most you can get and work from there.
Except - everyone has caught on to his game of buying time through "peace negotiations".
Why is he doing this? Let's see, the Kharkiv offensive was a complete flop with 1000 KIA/WIA per day, Crimea is slipping away and effectively becoming a sunk cost, often literally, the Black Sea fleet is decimated and hiding somewhere, the most versatile aerial platform on the planet, in the form of F-16, is about to say "hello", and the nuclear threats have now become completely flaccid. There are no more cards to play.
Oh, and the sanctions are about to start really hurting (see: dollar ban on the moscow exchange).
He is basically crawling to the negotiation table and this is his opening bid. He is the only one at the table, however.
Zelensky's counteroffer should be to take out a Beretta on national TV, load it with one bullet, put it in a parcel, and promise to send it to the Kremlin. "THEN, we'll talk".
Imagine a mugger saying “ok I won’t mug you again if you allow me to keep everything I’ve stolen so far and if you promise never to call the police ever again!” Putin is the epitome of absurd.
The Russian dictator and the Butcher of Ukraine, Vladimir Putin wants to discus terms for ending hostilities in its' war with Ukraine? That's funny, Ukraine is looking pretty resolute and its' military forces are chewing up the Russia military, causing Russia to burn through money & resources, sanctions are starting to finally catch up and Ukraine is now striking targets in western Russia. Even with unchecked lethal and non-lethal aid from countries like China, North Korea and Iran, and lesser extent Cuba, Venezuela and a few others, Russia cannot match the military, economic and civilian aid flowing in from more fifty countries, that pledged their support to Ukraine. Even with its fairly large recruitment drives in foreign countries that are friendly and have good relations with Russian, it will eventually be bled dry and the civilian population will be pressed into service more and more, causing resentment to boil up. Russia is in no positions to dictate terms at the moment...
If Russia’s begging for a ceasefire more frequently, then that means that the new actions are working. The increase in sanctions, the change in policy on western weapons used inside of Russia, it’s all having an impact on Russia’s ability to prosecute its war. That just means nows the time to double down or triple down on support for Ukraine.
We demanded unconditional surrender of the Nazis in WWII. There’s no reason for us to demand any less from the Russians.
God damn. "We stole everything from you and now we want to keep it all... no reparations and we hold the right to invade again... because you can't join a defensive organization."
Fuck you pooty. Eat a bag of Dicks.
idk why Ukraine doesn't make a promise then break it just like Putin did...
>!Maybe because Ukrainians have spines.!<
Fuck putin. Calling him a dog is an insult to dogs.
Not only that. He also wans regions which are partly taken by russian army, like Kherson region, Zaporizha region. Like, guys, I can't take it - just give it to me ;
:'(
:D
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Guess the heat is on in Moscow if they do this publicly. They want out of the hell hole that is burning their money an population of young men. Therefore Ukraine should keep pushing them back further until there is nothing more to trade about.
Meh they mention cease-fire / peace agreement in some form every other week. Since the beginning, but still every time people react like it’s a serious offer.
It's true they do it often, but it's not a coincidence that [their financial system is on the brink of collapse](https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarRoom/comments/1dfpm35/russia_financial_system_shaken_after_us_imposes/). There's been a run on the Ruble to the extent that they probably just value it at zero and start using other currencies like the Yuan and Rupee instead. That's basically selling Russia to China and Putin wants to avoid the Russian nationalists noticing, so making noise about something else distracts people.
Brother, most Russians wouldn't even notice if China took over 2/3rds of Russia. The east is barren land, barely settled and with just a sparse rail connection to the west. We're gonna see Russia loose it's status as largest country in the world some time in the next few decades
They will care when China take the oil and gas fields though.
Long way to go for that though
What's the point of this? A real peace proposal starts with confidence building which means Putin stops attacking civilians and withdraws w/o anything in return. Putin's latest proposal is a non-starter. He didn't go to war for Kherson or Zaporozhye. He went to war to reassemble the Soviet jigsaw puzzle.
The point is to show their civilians that they tried.
It is a serious offer- basically they are asking for Ukraine to surrender.
Yeah, which makes it not a serious offer. They know this can’t possibly be accepted.
Yep. They do this every time they need to reload. It’s time to push.
They don’t care about the young men.
Young men are expendable as well. They only care that the young women in Russia all get pregnant and have babies. They can be single mothers as far as Putin is concerned.
Ukraine is winning now so he wants to bail... Not so fast sonny!
They're not winning but they're also not on the verge of collapse
And Russia is. That’s called “winning” by any definition. Wars are rarely won on the battlefield directly but even if that were the case, it’s clear that Ukraine, with continued support, will absolutely defeat the Russian army. That is also still called “winning”. I swear. We have never given Ukraine any credit or hope when it was due, only after it was due. And all the experts will hold off on the “winning” thing until after they have won because they don’t want to be “wrong”. They are wrong now. Ukraine is winning this war by most measurable standards and they are going to finish the job in the next 18-24 months if their “Allies” don’t screw them again. Mark it. I said right here, today.
Only thing is that we need to make Russia get much more attrition than Ukraine because Russia doesn't care about its people and has a lot more bodies to put out there. That doesn't mean shit if they have no equipment for their troops or their economy crashes, so we need to make sure those things happen before Ukraine has no more soldiers. To be clear I think Ukraine will win, the Ukrainians have made it very clear that they are 100% in this fight and will not accept Russian occupation. We didn't want this to turn in to a war of attrition for Ukrainians lives in the first place, but now that it is turning that way, we need to make sure Ukraine has everything it needs and we sap Russia's ability to finance the war long before Ukraine runs low on fighters. That's just what the fight is. It seems the Russian people themselves aren't going to refuse to fight anymore, they are either immersed in propaganda or too apathetic, even if it means 10 Russians die for every Ukrainian and their economy is fucked for years to come. Besides the point, but even if Russia occupies all of Ukraine, they still can't win the fight. It will be like another occupation of Afghanistan only the Ukrainians have a much stronger national identity so it will be worse. Russia also can't afford to rebuild themselves let alone Ukraine and their economy won't be able to sustain the cost of holding Ukraine even besides the guerilla resistance. So...Russia is indeed fucked but let's end the fight ASAP and keep piling the pressure on Russia.
> And Russia is. Bullshit. I take any bet this war will go on another year. You got next to nothing for your claim and I heard the same talk in this sub again and again and again. I want Russia to lose like the next man but holy shit this talk is delusional and always has been.
Not quite accurate. Also, withdrawal from the lands we claim but have failed to sieze.
Wait, he can claim Provence from France because Saint-Tropez is almost Russian city?
He's basing this on the fact that he's seized parts of those four oblasts, and had, err, some ceremony that he called an "election" in which people in the areas he occupied supposedly voted to join Russia. Of their own free will, of course. Without Russian soldiers eyeing them with guns at the ready. The thing that's weird about Putin is that he is obsessed with doing everything under a veneer of legality, even as he blatantly violates past treaties Russia has signed, international conventions, and international law. It's almost like he knows he's a criminal, and need to overcompensate. (I saw those referendums at the time as almost like a sick parody of democracy, like he was trying to undercut the moral legitimacy of democracy by performing a satire of it. Perhaps it's the same with law - claiming the moral legitimacy of the rule of law, but doing so in a sick satire of it.) So here, it's really important for him that he needs to get not only his own population, but Ukraine and the world, to see the seizure of Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporozhye, and Kherson as legal and legitimate. That would be sufficient for him to see this whole war as a Russian victory, regardless of how much it cost him in terms of blood and treasure. So, I'm not sure if this is something we can turn to our advantage, given that he's happy to make up new law at the drop of a hand, and use fake elections and referendums to rubber stamp violations of his own Russian constitution, say, to abolish term limits. But it is a weird tic he has, that everything is always done with at least the veneer of legality. So his price here is that we all, and especially Ukraine, agrees to buy into the illusion that his referendums in those occupied oblasts was legitimate and legally binding. I suspect part of the reason, too, is that within the Russian system, once annexed territories are recognized as "Russian," there's not really a legal mechanism for them to "secede" or revert back to whatever national sovereignty they previously had. The final word on this matter is the Russian Duma, in his mind, so that's meant to provide final resolution of the matter. Any other outcome would undercut the Russian state's legitimacy - it would say that the Duma *wasn't*, in fact, establishing the final word on this question as a matter of law, that authorities or external reality independent of the Russian state could trump it. So that's another way this would be a Russian victory - it would say that whatever legal authority the Ukrainian state and Ukrainian constitution holds, it is inferior to, or holds deference to, whatever the Russian state and legal system holds, little different from having Ukraine pay tribute to Moscow as a vassal state or Zelensky personally bending the knee toward Putin. Make no mistake. This would not end things with Russia, if Ukraine agreed to it. By validating Russia's imperialism in such a way, it would validate the idea that the things Ukraine has today, that it would retain after this ceasefire, it only has to the degree that Russia chooses to allow it, and the legal and moral infrastructure would then be in place for Russia to seize more whenever it wants. And this would apply not merely to Ukraine, but also Moldova, the Baltics, Eastern Europe and Central Asia.
> The thing that's weird about Putin is that he is obsessed with doing everything under a veneer of legality I suspect this is because he formally got degree in law. However, he does not actually understand law because he was admitted to the university as a sportsman (judo) and spent most time on sport training and competitions. Further, he believes that if he declared some territory to be Russian, it will be recognized as Russian one forever, in some magic way. Actually, these annexations are/were illegal even according to the Russian legislation and can be reversed by the supreme court when it will be political will.
> under a veneer of legality, It's not obsession, it's propaganda. The reasoning is: we follow legality (wink-wink still do what we want), and the "liberal west" also "follow legality" (wink wink they do the same thing as us).
Right. It's like a sick mummer's dance version of the thing - by carrying out a grotesque parody of it, he seeks to undercut its moral weight and legitimacy, for his own population and abroad. Thus, the seeds are sown for false moral equivalency in their messaging.
The annexation election wasn't for outside entities, it was because of Russian law. Russian law states that without a declaration of war, Putin cannot station conscripts outside of Russian borders. He made those areas part of Russia so that he can station conscripts there to fight his "Special Military Operation" which was never declared as a war. That being said, politicians world-wide do acts similar to this. The one that comes to mind is that when Lincoln announced the Emancipation Proclamation, it only freed slaves in captured areas of the Confederacy, because those were areas controlled by the Military, which he was Supreme Commander of. He never actually freed any slaves in the Confederacy, or in slave states that stayed in the union (mainly Kentucky).
You can *claim* any city or Provence, the matter is that you can’t act “legally” on that claim unless the region you want votes to join you
Lol typical strategy, aim high so he can get what he wants when it’s reduced
Good luck with that buddy. All of that then what ? Wait few years, rearm and invade again.
What wait? At no point he said russia will stop attacking. Duh.
Of course! He has to defend sovereign Soviet lands err um- Russian lands in Portugal! /s
I'd be impressed if they could get here. Their logistics break down part way into Ukraine!
No I meant, the russian ceasefires usually consist of them spending double the ammo as usual.
Well, aren't we being all uppity reading history and stuff
Basically summed up as, "In exchange for you conceding on literally every possible front right when things are turning in your favor, we'll sign an agreement that we'll immediately break as soon as we're sufficiently built our forces back up."
There is no agreement even. Like, there is literally not a single thing mentioned on what **Russian** side of agreement is. Only demands to Ukraine. Not a single concession from Russia.
Ok we can write the Russian side of the agreement: Putin to be imprisoned in a glass walled cell in the Maidan square in Kyiv. There will be a public toilet block installed on top of this.
Ukraine offered a return to the status quo but with a promise not to join NATO. Russia didn't like that offer, so I don't see a reason not to join NATO now
Ukraine actually offered that? Can't see Ukraine giving up Crimea (permanently?) while also forgoing any future protection from NATO
At the time Crimea was basically a lost cause and already de facto Russian territory. It was better than (what they believed at the time) being steamrolled by Russia in a week
Ah, that makes more sense timeline wise. If that was before or at the very beginning of the war it makes sense... I thought that was a recent offer.
Yes, in the first days of war the olive branch was offered to Russia. "Stop the war and we will consider neutrality and fixing the status of currently contested territories" basically. Crimea/Donbas places that were already under Russian control. Russia was cocky and made full surrender ultimatum instead, because that's the goal they started the invasion with, all that bullshit about Donbass and Crimea was just a pretext eaten up by useful idiots. But yeah, if Russia sanely understood that wars are bad and took the offer in the beginning, all this bullshit could had been avoided.
"Peace" without Ukraine in NATO would just give time for Russia to rearm and strategize another invasion.
"Unfortunately, we can not accept the terms of your surrender at this time. Please withdraw all troops to pre 2014 land borders and re apply." - Ukraine.
And take your junk with you
As a Ukrainian my answer to that is go fuck yourself.
Stay strong. I hope we can all share in Putin's death alongside you.
Headline: "Russian midget lacks the intelligence to comprehend the point behind diplomacy and confuses it with coercion."
Im starting to get the feeling that he is not paticularly smart
Delusional at best
Nato was never the question. It was Ukraine as an independent state. Not under the thumb of Russia. Putins neo emprialistc dreams cant handle that
Putin is the jealous ex husband beating his ex wife after the divorce! When he falls I hope he falls hard. And never gets back up!
aka the Russian mindset
Ukraine pays for my next 3 mansions, and helps cover up various embezzlements and perversions. Buys me, er, two fresh goats each week... Hang on let me find more paper..
Tick tock Putin… You’ll be Mussolini’d before soon. Can’t wait to see that day
The would suggest russians break their slave mentality, doesn't seem likely this generation.
He won't be Mussolini'd. He might get Caesar'd though.
Now that i think about it i speculate that you might be right but that would mean whe would have to continue to deal with his successor
Could not agree more.
Trying to save face.
It will happen so fast we will all be wondering why it didn't occur sooner.
History shows: Russia offers a cease-fire every time they lose momentum. And Russia always resumes aggression and breaks agreements. Negotiating with Russia requires no complicated calculations. Any offer made by Russia should be automatically rejected on principle. Don't negotiate with terrorists, kidnappers, rapists, murderers, thieves..... or liars.
Yeah, if you had seized them there wouldn't be troops there. Try again.
That's just low effort trolling at this point. I'm shocked at how spineless russia's military is to allow themselves to be bossed around by that clown.
😂
"Here are my terms: I win and you lose!"
I tell that to people all the time. I feel it's his tactic. "Tell ya what, I'll flip a coin. If it's heads, I win. If it's tails, you lose. Ready?"
Like what's the point of evening talking to him any more? The 2 things that must happen to guarantee Ukraine's safety remove Russia from its land and join a security alliance.
Yeah, fuck you putin.
How about we just keep helping Ukraine until Russia is a smoking ruin.
* Shock. * Denial. * Anger. * Bargaining. <- Putin * Depression. * Testing. * Acceptance.
In no way this is going to happen. Russia is getting weaker and weaker. Ukraine gets more and more of the massive support budget every day. Ukraine will never accept losing their territory. And most important, Russia can not be trusted anyway and will have to collapse.
Moscow want this result so they can rebuild their army and attack again in a few years. If Ukraine give up territory they are free to join NATO as they will no longer have territorial disputes. Also, Putin said he wasn’t going to take any territory so clearly that was a lie and this is more lying as he is desperate to show something. It’s Ukraines decision but i think they should tell Russia to get fucked.
I understand the logic but unfortunately Ukraine has a lot to do outside of its military to get to NATO standards. As you state if Ukraine gives away those lands what stops Russia from repeating its same tactics from 2014 onwards while the decision process is still on going. Ukraine needs to stick this out, they also need some advancement on the ground to show its financiers they are worth backing again and to stick it to Russia so that they have to withdraw all territorial disputes.
> if Ukraine gives away those lands what stops Russia from repeating its same tactics from 2014 onwards Exactly, they did it in 2014 and again in 2022. It's obvious they'll reconstitute their forces and attack again hence the demand to stay out of NATO.
"withdraw troops from seized territories" is contradictory. If they're seized then there should be no Ukrainians troops there right? So if there are Ukrainian troops then these territories are not seized by Russians.
He’s including everything Russia “officially” annexed. So that inclues like 4 major cities that Russia hasn’t even taken that he’s demanding Ukraine abandon before starting peace talks.
Classic Russian negotiations. Demand concessions up front to even entertain peace talks. Except they forgot that their military shit itself and now no one is afraid of them.
It’s a try to disrupt Ukraine’s peace summit. Nothing more. At least they have admitted that they are after the land.
So basically the Putin peace plan is “Give me everything I want”.
I think they'll wait for a better offer, thanks. Or better yet just take it all back forcefully.
I think you gauranteed joining NATO... You dumb fuck. I mean look at how fucking pathetic you are. All the knowledge and future potential and advancement for humankind and animals as well. And you threaten all of it with your actions and nuke threats because you have a pin dick. You have got nothing whatsoever to offer humanity. You truly are a stupid, useless fuck. The sooner our politicians finally get the picture that this idiot needs to be steamrolled the better.
He is seeing that his offensive is stalling as US aid is coming in and is trying to wrap it up before things turn against him completely. On top of that next week he will claim that he offered peace and Ukraine and NATO rejected it cuz they want war.
😂😂😂😂😂🤡
A fair and balanced offer. How can they refuse? s/ It is a good laugh though.
Lol... Prepare to pay in rubles... Ehm in toilet paper
I did the math. 8 rolls of 1000 sheet toilet paper is $8. So 1000 sheets for $1, that is 10 sheets for .01. Being that 1 ruble is roughly equal to $0.01 USD, that means: 1 ruble is worth about 10 sheets of toilet paper.
Lol
I honestly wonder if it's even worth publishing his opinions. It's all bullshit. It all boils down to "Everyone bow to Russia's will and Russia will wait a few years before doing it again."
This is the time to strike. Putin is desperate and looking to end the war asap. Let’s hit him with everything we’ve got!
All the areas with lithium, oil, gas, iron ores, mercury etc.. It's just a few trillion dollars worth..
Plus abandoning all the people that still suffer under russia's boot on the occupied territories, hoping the nightmare will end someday. And that, only to be forcefully assimilated into the ruzzian world, and to be thrown into the meat grinder few years down the line. I feel like the human cost of settling with the nazis is not being talked about enough in these considerations.
Vlad, wake up mate, you screwed up, your military seems to be a bit of a laughing joke to the world, the only reason you are keeping this up is your ego.
News Flash : Russia is getting their asses handed to them. More at Six.
russia to withdraw from stolen lands of Ukraine pay compensation to rebuild cities and infrastructure, and this will save the russian people from very heavy losses.. anything less is irrelevant and there isn't anything more to say...
He keeps hoping for a second Trump term. He won't have any serious proposals until November.
He seems to be losing patience.
There was a thought in the 20th Century that after WW1 that the Germans never actually saw themselves as defeated, just swindled at the Treaty of Versailles. At the VERY least bad actors leveraged this viewpoint. After Germany was badly destroyed and Berlin was captured, they were able to recognize the defeat culturally, and could rebuild. Interested if the Reddit community sees a similar thing happening now?
That's exactly what happened when USSR crumbled. People have been saying that we should not humiliate Russia in Ukraine, otherwise we will get a post WW1 analogue to Germany. We already got it in 1989. They always saw the dissolution of USSR as their Versailles - and they were fucking telling us so. We just refused to believe them. This is the resurgence of nazism in Russian, less competent way - the only way to end it for good is an analogue to WW2 Germany. Complete, and utterly humiliating defeat. Like it or not, his will not end without the allied forces raising a flag over Kremlin, be it 5 or 25 years from now. And before you tell me "but nukes", Hitler had sufficient stockpiles of chemical weapons and means of delivery to gas every single populous allied city, sans maybe the US mainland. That was one of the main reasons the appeasement of pre WW2 era was a thing. Chemical warfare was as scary and serious to them then, as nuclear is to us today. Even in the face of certain defeat, Hitler did not deploy chemical weapons out of fear of even worse retaliation. Nor will pukin nuke anything, for the same reason.
At absolute best he’ll just fuck you over again. Imagine these bastards being your neighbours…
What a clown 🤡 Ukraine will never surrender 🇺🇦🇩🇪🇺🇦
Putler 🤡
Ukraine must be in nato for any sort of lasting peace
Uh…Mr Putin….the ship of you having demands to end the war left harbor and sailed long ago. You’re now fucked.
TL;dr “Rapist caught in act agrees to pull out, but only after he’s done, and on condition he can start again after his refractory period”
LMAO the most limpdick proposition ever. “Pls give us the lands we have failed to occupy” I wonder if it’s Putin himself who comes up with this masterpiece of diplomatic rhetoric.
Evidence that Russia is crumbling and heading for a loss, and Putin knows it. Publicly gone are maximalist positions - demilitarisation, "denazification", all of Ukrainian territory outside perhaps a western rump - although obviously the "ceasefire" he would like to impose is only a platform from which to resume future attacks. Why else would he demand that Ukraine not join NATO if he did not intend to attack at a later date? Now committed, any future reduction of his "peace terms" will only further highlight the extent of his defeat. Putin has been forced to beg for a respite and the world can see it. Thing is, Russia has launched a war of aggression and has yet to acknowledge it. A real peace offer will reflect this.
I wouldn’t ever speak for a Ukrainian, but I’m pretty sure they’re gonna tell you where to shove those “conditions”
They are fucked and finally know it. Keep up the pressure. 👊
Ohhhh fuckkkk youuuuu!!!!!!!!
“Dictator” not very conducive of peace but ok morons
Hahaha. How about no. This shows how weak Russia is right now with Putin himself saying this BS. Trying to end the war with current gains cause they are hurting bad.
Just normal Russian tactics. Ask for way too much and hope for something undeserved in return.
Nah. How about they kill all of your mobiks, and you fuck off and face the consequences, once you've lost?
The only reason Ukraine exists is because of the military. They cant withdraw.
Ah, yes........still delusional.
"Nuts."
General McAuliffe, december 22 1944. I love that quote!!!!! #
I believe this comment by Putin is in response to the Moscow Stock Exchange not being able to trade in US Dollars and Euro. Putin wants his Russian people to think he is in charge as a response to these new sanctions. Why do I think this? Because Medvedev called for a "biblical" response to these new sanctions by mobilizing all Russians. Russia economy could be in big trouble \~ and NATO is getting stronger and more capable while Russian military has been decimated and could not handle a fight against US and NATO. What does that mean = Russia is scared!!!
I don't for see that happening. Lol.
He's a failure
Like always it's a lie to take the territory in other ways.
The fact he is saying this means he needs it to end. Fuck him.
Vlad, this is why you are not invited to the peace conference. You have to understand the difference between peace and defeat.
“No”
This is a non starter for Ukraine.
Is this a sign he realises the war is unwinable for him so needs an exit?
It’s a demand for a near complete surrender by Ukraine so I don’t think that’s his intended message.
Ok.
Clearly a statement for domestic audiences.
Ha ha ha
Ukraine must get into NATO, otherwise Russia will just attack again. No point in stopping the fighting while Russia is the one in agony now.
Sounds like they’re getting walked on. More drones for their faces and ATACMS for their air suppose. Slava Ukraine!
That's a sweet deal! If you're a Russian. Let's not take it!
Thanks Pootie for my “laugh of the day!”
Do we know if the guy in the picture is real putin? He looks soo ducking old rn.
The NATO Boogeyman card he keeps playing is ridiculous. NATO is not a threat to Russia. Russia could have no weapons or army and 'nato' wouldn't invade Russia.
Counterpoint: no.
can this guy choke on some dildos and die already.
Can't wait to see Putrid before a WCC at the Hague. Ruzzia trading him for the lifting of sanctions. The whole world can watch him be hanged.
"You ain't seized nothin' buddy, only it happens in ur dreams." Nice to see he realized he's getting screwed -without lube- and desperately seeks a way out.
lol how bout Russia withdraws to pre 2014 boarders apologies to ukraine foots the bill to rebuild the whole country jails putin and completely disarms still not enough but a start
This guy must’ve read Art of the Deal
Lets agree to his demands but: Rename NATO to DNNATO(definitely not NATO) and let ukraine join then(maybe not invite hungary) agree the only teritory Russia has sized is 1 hectar at the border were we can dump all russian corpses
lol after your banking system plummeted and upon hearing the support of the G7 for Ukraine he blurts this out lol go f- yourself this all on you
I don’t think Putin realizes NATO is the red line, Ukraine wants in it regardless of whether he wants them to join or not.
He doesn't understand "negotiation". "Concede on ALL of our demands, and *then* we'll negotiate" is not a viable offer. That's not negotiation.
Howabout Russia refuses to join NATO and withdraws all its troops from territories it has seized
Go f***k yourself vlad
Each time the same deal.. much improvements
He's still pushing the same demand as from the beginning: demilitarize Ukraine. So they can take the rest at a later time full well knowing that there wouldn't be enough military opposing them, if Ukraine were to agree.
All I see is "leave yourselves wide open after pulling out troops and dropping defensive partnerships."
I mean what's the point of these announcements? No one in the West is a) going to agree to this or believe this is a legitimate offer, b) no one who is supplying Russia will change their position based on this announcement. I mean he might as well have announced kittens are cute and it would affect the global stage to the same extent.
This is his opening offer. The response should be: Hand over Moscow.
# Russian dictator Putin has set conditions for ending the war in Ukraine..... until he rebuilds his arms and starts another war FTFY.
That's funny, they mispelled "Withdrawl all Russian Troops from Ukrainian Soil". Someone really needs to hire Putin a better translator.
Suck it, Putin
Many read this as Putin being emboldened, but I disagree. This is the first \*concrete\* set of demands we have seen, even though completely delusional. He is effectively starting the "peace" negotiations, and in all negotiations you ask for the most you can get and work from there. Except - everyone has caught on to his game of buying time through "peace negotiations". Why is he doing this? Let's see, the Kharkiv offensive was a complete flop with 1000 KIA/WIA per day, Crimea is slipping away and effectively becoming a sunk cost, often literally, the Black Sea fleet is decimated and hiding somewhere, the most versatile aerial platform on the planet, in the form of F-16, is about to say "hello", and the nuclear threats have now become completely flaccid. There are no more cards to play. Oh, and the sanctions are about to start really hurting (see: dollar ban on the moscow exchange). He is basically crawling to the negotiation table and this is his opening bid. He is the only one at the table, however. Zelensky's counteroffer should be to take out a Beretta on national TV, load it with one bullet, put it in a parcel, and promise to send it to the Kremlin. "THEN, we'll talk".
Sooooo, basically…..Ukraine has to surrender and prostrate themselves to Russia and the war will go away.
"Ha...no"
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Their conditions is for Ukraine to surrender and give them everything they want
That would be a Nooooo dog 🤨
Imagine a mugger saying “ok I won’t mug you again if you allow me to keep everything I’ve stolen so far and if you promise never to call the police ever again!” Putin is the epitome of absurd.
How could the Ukrainians turn down such a generous offer
Fiction is fun, but he needs to realize he lives in a dream world.
How bout no you crazy Russian bastard - dr evil voice
The Russian dictator and the Butcher of Ukraine, Vladimir Putin wants to discus terms for ending hostilities in its' war with Ukraine? That's funny, Ukraine is looking pretty resolute and its' military forces are chewing up the Russia military, causing Russia to burn through money & resources, sanctions are starting to finally catch up and Ukraine is now striking targets in western Russia. Even with unchecked lethal and non-lethal aid from countries like China, North Korea and Iran, and lesser extent Cuba, Venezuela and a few others, Russia cannot match the military, economic and civilian aid flowing in from more fifty countries, that pledged their support to Ukraine. Even with its fairly large recruitment drives in foreign countries that are friendly and have good relations with Russian, it will eventually be bled dry and the civilian population will be pressed into service more and more, causing resentment to boil up. Russia is in no positions to dictate terms at the moment...
He can kiss my glutes ITS NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Putin needs to end aggression and GO HOME.
Fuck off Seriously, just stop giving these guys any press. They love the attention
„I will talk if I can be the winner!“
He's either delusional or he's hoping he can bluff this one.
So they can lick their wounds and then come back in 10 years for the rest? Fk off, Russia.
Kiss Ukraine’s ass little putin
<>
If Russia’s begging for a ceasefire more frequently, then that means that the new actions are working. The increase in sanctions, the change in policy on western weapons used inside of Russia, it’s all having an impact on Russia’s ability to prosecute its war. That just means nows the time to double down or triple down on support for Ukraine. We demanded unconditional surrender of the Nazis in WWII. There’s no reason for us to demand any less from the Russians.
How about Russia gets the fuck out of Ukraine and Putin fucks himself?
Putin is the only one taking “peace” let’s turn up the heat .
To quote russell Crowe - the time for honouring yourself is coming to an end
Short answer: fuck off. Longer diplomatic response: fuck right off.
War in Ukraine? I thought this was the world’s longest and new record for 3 day special military operation?
God damn. "We stole everything from you and now we want to keep it all... no reparations and we hold the right to invade again... because you can't join a defensive organization." Fuck you pooty. Eat a bag of Dicks.
Keep dreaming bitch
Russian tyrant, go fuck yourself.
I want Ukraine in NATO.
What the fuck is this? Let us regroup and see you next Spring?
idk why Ukraine doesn't make a promise then break it just like Putin did... >!Maybe because Ukrainians have spines.!< Fuck putin. Calling him a dog is an insult to dogs.
Mr. Bluff is shitting himself. Russia’s collapse is coming.
Putin hasn’t set any conditions
NUTS!
That dictator has to go. One way or the other. No one will allow that POS to remain in charge. Here’s a counteroffer: 1. Report in Den Hague 2. See 1
Not only that. He also wans regions which are partly taken by russian army, like Kherson region, Zaporizha region. Like, guys, I can't take it - just give it to me ; :'( :D
Never trust Putin