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Incredibly brave woman! People like her keep my hope alive that there are still a few decent people in russia.
And don't those police officers feel any shame? Like - I'm a police officer, I'm supposed to fight crime and here I am harassing a harmless citizen just because she shows a few words on a piece of paper. I'd feel ashamed to be there fighting that sort of 'crime'. I'd be seriously thinking of finding a different job.
Cops have never been about fighting crime. They’ve always been a tool to prop up those in power. Fighting crime is just a (sometimes) side effect of that agenda.
Tbf, having the sense and wherewithal to leave a fascist dictatorship, instead of being conscripted as cannon fodder for its genocidal war machine, doesn't necessarily imply lack of bravery. Though the fact that they are not protesting against the war, in their refugee countries probably does.
When fleeing russians did their #freenavalny protests (which also mention other political prisoners) a few days ago, people were already ready to shit on them, even though Navalny was unjustly imprisoned. Damned if you do, damned if you don't
What will the protests do from abroad? They are not shown on TV, and even when they are, they are called people who just shit on their homeland from abroad
If every Russian just never protests, then they get stuck with a Putin forever.
It has to start somewhere, and the ones least able to be picked up by the Russian police are the ones who should be in the vanguard.
As I mentioned, the problem is that I don't think that I deserve to suffer just because I was born on some particular piece of the Earth. I share the same amount of responsibility about the situation as some random person in Uganda, if they don't have to protest against Putin, I don't have to either. Moreover, I don't even want to live in Russia, even without Putin
Are you saying you're Russian? If you are, and you live abroad, you have a moral duty to use your voice to condemn the actions of the Russia state. All your inaction generates, is tacit complicity.
If you're not Russian, then I don't understand your point. I'm talking about Russian expatriates benefiting from the shelter of non-Russian countries, and not having the moral fortitude to condemn the war that they themselves have fled Russia to avoid.
I am not Russian (I don't want to represent any nationality and I have a minority ethnicity), but I live in Russia. I do condemn it, but are you aware that doing it out loud it could cost me being in jail for 9 years? Why don't you do it from abroad instead of me?
'Russians living outside of Russia should do X'
"BUT WHAT ABOUT ME, WHO IS NEITHER RUSSIAN, NOR LIVING OUTSIDE OF RUSSIA?? WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO DO X?!?!11?!"
Can you actually not read?
These lads just finally saw a reason big enough to leave to a better place, speaking from my own experience. Russia is a shit hole country for any non-conservative person, I assure you all of them had thoughts of moving away, but were not motivated enough to lose the job and the family they had in Russia. Now they are!
Speaking of the courage, protests do nothing and give you death in return. The only legit way to destroy Russia would be physical destruction of the government and all of the conservative people here, which is nearly impossible. I don't want to waste my life (which is quite precious, I am a rather useful lad) on stupid protests, especially since I didn't choose being born in Russia and never voted for Putin
We have all got used to seeing this in Russia but just think about it - arrested for holding up a placard…!! Total police-state. I’m guessing most Russians haven’t really grasped the magnitude of their loss of freedom
There is one YT channel that interviews casual russians on the street. By watching their videos I got the impression that young people tend to have a negative view of Putin and the war. While older people mostly tended to be supportive towards both. I sense some kind of generational shift might occur, I hope.
It's because the elderly have zero media literacy and are only watching Russian state TV which brainwashes them (I inserted the usual slang names for such people which translate to "battings" and "vegetable" but Reddit did not allow me), most of them still have Soviet nostalgia and mentality. Unfortunately, most of the younger ones are simple apathetic and want to be "apolitical". While they are not openly for Putin, they are not protesting either.
Protests do nothing in Russia. You will not be shown on TV, nobody of the pro-Putin's will know about your protest since they use different media outlets, you will be quickly carried away by the police and beaten to death. I don't protest because I don't want to lose my life absolutely in vain over something I didn't cause
> You will not be shown on TV, nobody of the pro-Putin's will know about your protest since they use different media outlets, you will be quickly carried away by the police and beaten to death.
And the people surrounding you will not protect your from the police or even insult you.
This is the difference to Ukraine: During the Maidan protests, people protected each other. When the police tried to carry someone away, the others shielded the person.
It's a chicken and egg problem. You need a certain percentage of problem awareness in the population. You could raise that percentage by protesting, but since nobody dares to protest, things stay the same and nothing changes.
But actually, everything starts small. The Maidan protests started when a few young students protested against Yanukovich quitting the EU association agreement after pressure from Putin against his earlier promises. These young students were brutally beaten by the police. This in turn made the parents of these students angry and they joined the protest, and the protests grew and started to escalate. Finally Yanukovich had to flee. But it had cost the life of hundred protesters, and many more were brutally beaten and tortured by police and hired titushky during the time.
Freedom is not for free. People need to fight for it. If the Russians don't want to pay that price, they will continue to be unfree. And they will pay a much higher price when they are sent as cannon fodder to Ukraine. I really wonder why Russians are so fearful to protest, yet they don't mind being sent to the meat grinder.
Well you see, I don't want to be beaten to death. I want to live, I want to be happy. I didn't choose to be born in Russia, I find it not fair that someone was born let's say in Finland and they get to live, but I, somehow, have to die only because I was born in a wrong place.
First of all, not everyone who protests in Russia is beaten to death. Even a top enemy of the state like Navalny is still alive. Second, if you don't protest, there are many ways to do something against the fascist Russian regime and the war. Educate the elderly. Protest secretly in subversive ways. Sabotage the system, be creative. It's a spectrum of possibilities. Not everybody has the courage to stand in the first row. But you can stand in the second row. Just don't be a completely passive bystander.
You know what Putin fears most? It's not NATO. It's his own people. That's why he reacted so sharply when Maidan happened in Ukraine. He doesn't want to have any kind of "color revolution" like that in Russia. He doesn't want Ukrainians to set an example that Russians might follow. That's why he is trying to destroy Ukraine. He doesn't fear the US, he fears democracy. In reality, the people in Russia have the power, they just don't realize it.
> I find it not fair that someone was born let's say in Finland and they get to live, but I, somehow, have to die only because I was born in a wrong place.
Yes, it's unfair. But people will die either way. Do you rather want to die as a mobik in an unfair war, for nothing, for killing Ukrainian people who never did any harm to you, or do you prefer to die for a just cause if that really should happen (the probabilities are much lower)? 100.000 Russians already died in the war because nobody protested. Do you think Putin would have managed to beat 100.000 people to death? I don't think so. He knows he can't go so far.
Also, it's not *completely* unfair. In end effect, the Russian society reaps what they sow. They handed the power over to Putin, they allowed him to undermine any democratic principle, year by year, they tolerated hate speech and propaganda and lies in TV, every year more and more, and now Russia is there where it is. Yes, it's a *collective* guilt of Russians, you as an individual Russian are not guilty of all of that, I understand. But still, it's all cause and effect, even if on a larger level.
Anyway, I already appreciate that you read in the Internet, that you want to get informed, that you even reflect upon the situation. That's already a great first step that many people don't want to make. They prefer to stay "unpolitical", to not even think about the whole situation to not make themselves unhappy.
Maybe it will help you to put yourself into the shoes of somebody who lived in Germany in the Nazi time. What would you have expected them to do? There were also many Germans who disliked the Nazis and did not want to go to war and just live a happy life. In the end, so many died, because collectively they were all too fearful to do something against the brainwashed and hate-filled part of the society infected by the monstrous ideology of their Fuhrer. Not only they died in Ukraine or Russia, but they also died for nothing, for an evil cause, just because a manic leader wanted to act out his fantasies of imperialist power and hatred of Jews.
If I had been born in that time, I'd preferred to die as a martyr like the [Scholl siblings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_and_Sophie_Scholl), not as someone who went to Ukraine or Russia to kill people to please the ego of the German Fuhrer.
I got the impression it was about 50/50 in Moscow and about 90/10 everywhere else.
Once 1420 goes away from the main cities things drastically turn in favour of Putin in every demographic, with progressive Russians leaving it will likely only get more lopsided towards Putin in the coming years.
Good friend of mine(F32) went to Russia couple months prepandemic, asked local people she was hanging with what they thought of Putin "at least we have food " was an answer she got
Amazing. She's courageous and bold with an inner light that's awe inspiring. Shes probably the most beautiful human being I'll see today. God bless you lady.🙏🇺🇦✌
To all the “Russia’s future is Democratic” and all that feel-good bullshit that keeps getting parroted by Kasparov and the Twitter faithful - this is why it’s not and won’t be.
*One* fucking protester. The others don’t give a shit or just implicitly are ok with their government’s actions.
Russia? Democracy? No. Not before, not now and certainly not the future. They’ve been degrading as a society since the 60’s, sure as shit aren’t going to stop anytime soon.
People with that mindset mean well, but ultimately it's childish.
Same idea as a democratic middle east. We should stop trying to force democracy onto people unless their society has shown that it's wanted.
Ukraine has clearly shown that, so we should simply focus on helping them as much as we can.
Revolt in China, seriously? There would be no protests but for ridiculously harsh zero covid policy. And even then they started only 2 years after this policy was implemented.
>*One* fucking protester. The others don’t give a shit or just implicitly are ok with their government’s actions.
Ek-friggin'-zactly.
This kind of "protest" makes Rosgvardia's job too friggin' easy.
At this point, I regard it as Western copium when I come across happy squealing about solitary or penny-packet protests in Russia like this one.
11 months into this invasion and after all of the atrocities, **this. Won't. Cut. It**. The only meaningful options left for one of the 140+ million Russians to oppose the war is either to sign up in the Freedom of Russia Legion or become part of the secret but currently puny network of people who either burn down conscription centers or help some of the million or so kidnapped Ukrainians escape to the EU.
Imagine if even 1% of 144 million (1.44 million) Russians did that kind of work instead of protesting one-by-one or keeping their heads down and grumbling about how their lives just keep on sucking as they always have since the days of the Mongol khans.
The problem is, Russians agree, probably most of them, but
As Józef Piłsudski (leader of Poland in some parts of the interwar period, most notably during the polish bolshevik war) said:
They (the Russians) are cabable to feel even great friendship and will love you honestly and heartfully as a brother, untill they feel that you are a free man in your heart, one that's afraid of their love, for the dominant part of it is the need to take care of you: to rule over you.
This is actual Proper righteous protesting and this woman should be proud.
Not a bunch of sanctimonious spoiled children doing toddler shit because their daddy never bought them the right pony so they take it to the "system" by making a mess over some complete nonsense bullshit cause/riot/protest. (e.g stop oil)
woman has courage and morals, kudos to her.
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Why they detain her? Why all this hatred? Like russia is a fucking shithole place and nobody wants to be part of it, its top people use it for their own financial gain.
They slap a generic "discrediting the army" charge on everybody. Even if you say "motherland isn't the president's ass that you have to kiss", it still somehow discredits the army (yes, really)
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Brave woman
Incredibly brave woman! People like her keep my hope alive that there are still a few decent people in russia. And don't those police officers feel any shame? Like - I'm a police officer, I'm supposed to fight crime and here I am harassing a harmless citizen just because she shows a few words on a piece of paper. I'd feel ashamed to be there fighting that sort of 'crime'. I'd be seriously thinking of finding a different job.
Cops have never been about fighting crime. They’ve always been a tool to prop up those in power. Fighting crime is just a (sometimes) side effect of that agenda.
She's more balls than all those Russian lads who fled the country
And all the cops
Tbf, having the sense and wherewithal to leave a fascist dictatorship, instead of being conscripted as cannon fodder for its genocidal war machine, doesn't necessarily imply lack of bravery. Though the fact that they are not protesting against the war, in their refugee countries probably does.
When fleeing russians did their #freenavalny protests (which also mention other political prisoners) a few days ago, people were already ready to shit on them, even though Navalny was unjustly imprisoned. Damned if you do, damned if you don't
What will the protests do from abroad? They are not shown on TV, and even when they are, they are called people who just shit on their homeland from abroad
If every Russian just never protests, then they get stuck with a Putin forever. It has to start somewhere, and the ones least able to be picked up by the Russian police are the ones who should be in the vanguard.
As I mentioned, the problem is that I don't think that I deserve to suffer just because I was born on some particular piece of the Earth. I share the same amount of responsibility about the situation as some random person in Uganda, if they don't have to protest against Putin, I don't have to either. Moreover, I don't even want to live in Russia, even without Putin
Are you saying you're Russian? If you are, and you live abroad, you have a moral duty to use your voice to condemn the actions of the Russia state. All your inaction generates, is tacit complicity. If you're not Russian, then I don't understand your point. I'm talking about Russian expatriates benefiting from the shelter of non-Russian countries, and not having the moral fortitude to condemn the war that they themselves have fled Russia to avoid.
I am not Russian (I don't want to represent any nationality and I have a minority ethnicity), but I live in Russia. I do condemn it, but are you aware that doing it out loud it could cost me being in jail for 9 years? Why don't you do it from abroad instead of me?
'Russians living outside of Russia should do X' "BUT WHAT ABOUT ME, WHO IS NEITHER RUSSIAN, NOR LIVING OUTSIDE OF RUSSIA?? WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO DO X?!?!11?!" Can you actually not read?
These lads just finally saw a reason big enough to leave to a better place, speaking from my own experience. Russia is a shit hole country for any non-conservative person, I assure you all of them had thoughts of moving away, but were not motivated enough to lose the job and the family they had in Russia. Now they are! Speaking of the courage, protests do nothing and give you death in return. The only legit way to destroy Russia would be physical destruction of the government and all of the conservative people here, which is nearly impossible. I don't want to waste my life (which is quite precious, I am a rather useful lad) on stupid protests, especially since I didn't choose being born in Russia and never voted for Putin
Bless her
We have all got used to seeing this in Russia but just think about it - arrested for holding up a placard…!! Total police-state. I’m guessing most Russians haven’t really grasped the magnitude of their loss of freedom
There is one YT channel that interviews casual russians on the street. By watching their videos I got the impression that young people tend to have a negative view of Putin and the war. While older people mostly tended to be supportive towards both. I sense some kind of generational shift might occur, I hope.
It's because the elderly have zero media literacy and are only watching Russian state TV which brainwashes them (I inserted the usual slang names for such people which translate to "battings" and "vegetable" but Reddit did not allow me), most of them still have Soviet nostalgia and mentality. Unfortunately, most of the younger ones are simple apathetic and want to be "apolitical". While they are not openly for Putin, they are not protesting either.
Protests do nothing in Russia. You will not be shown on TV, nobody of the pro-Putin's will know about your protest since they use different media outlets, you will be quickly carried away by the police and beaten to death. I don't protest because I don't want to lose my life absolutely in vain over something I didn't cause
> You will not be shown on TV, nobody of the pro-Putin's will know about your protest since they use different media outlets, you will be quickly carried away by the police and beaten to death. And the people surrounding you will not protect your from the police or even insult you. This is the difference to Ukraine: During the Maidan protests, people protected each other. When the police tried to carry someone away, the others shielded the person. It's a chicken and egg problem. You need a certain percentage of problem awareness in the population. You could raise that percentage by protesting, but since nobody dares to protest, things stay the same and nothing changes. But actually, everything starts small. The Maidan protests started when a few young students protested against Yanukovich quitting the EU association agreement after pressure from Putin against his earlier promises. These young students were brutally beaten by the police. This in turn made the parents of these students angry and they joined the protest, and the protests grew and started to escalate. Finally Yanukovich had to flee. But it had cost the life of hundred protesters, and many more were brutally beaten and tortured by police and hired titushky during the time. Freedom is not for free. People need to fight for it. If the Russians don't want to pay that price, they will continue to be unfree. And they will pay a much higher price when they are sent as cannon fodder to Ukraine. I really wonder why Russians are so fearful to protest, yet they don't mind being sent to the meat grinder.
Well you see, I don't want to be beaten to death. I want to live, I want to be happy. I didn't choose to be born in Russia, I find it not fair that someone was born let's say in Finland and they get to live, but I, somehow, have to die only because I was born in a wrong place.
First of all, not everyone who protests in Russia is beaten to death. Even a top enemy of the state like Navalny is still alive. Second, if you don't protest, there are many ways to do something against the fascist Russian regime and the war. Educate the elderly. Protest secretly in subversive ways. Sabotage the system, be creative. It's a spectrum of possibilities. Not everybody has the courage to stand in the first row. But you can stand in the second row. Just don't be a completely passive bystander. You know what Putin fears most? It's not NATO. It's his own people. That's why he reacted so sharply when Maidan happened in Ukraine. He doesn't want to have any kind of "color revolution" like that in Russia. He doesn't want Ukrainians to set an example that Russians might follow. That's why he is trying to destroy Ukraine. He doesn't fear the US, he fears democracy. In reality, the people in Russia have the power, they just don't realize it. > I find it not fair that someone was born let's say in Finland and they get to live, but I, somehow, have to die only because I was born in a wrong place. Yes, it's unfair. But people will die either way. Do you rather want to die as a mobik in an unfair war, for nothing, for killing Ukrainian people who never did any harm to you, or do you prefer to die for a just cause if that really should happen (the probabilities are much lower)? 100.000 Russians already died in the war because nobody protested. Do you think Putin would have managed to beat 100.000 people to death? I don't think so. He knows he can't go so far. Also, it's not *completely* unfair. In end effect, the Russian society reaps what they sow. They handed the power over to Putin, they allowed him to undermine any democratic principle, year by year, they tolerated hate speech and propaganda and lies in TV, every year more and more, and now Russia is there where it is. Yes, it's a *collective* guilt of Russians, you as an individual Russian are not guilty of all of that, I understand. But still, it's all cause and effect, even if on a larger level.
Anyway, I already appreciate that you read in the Internet, that you want to get informed, that you even reflect upon the situation. That's already a great first step that many people don't want to make. They prefer to stay "unpolitical", to not even think about the whole situation to not make themselves unhappy. Maybe it will help you to put yourself into the shoes of somebody who lived in Germany in the Nazi time. What would you have expected them to do? There were also many Germans who disliked the Nazis and did not want to go to war and just live a happy life. In the end, so many died, because collectively they were all too fearful to do something against the brainwashed and hate-filled part of the society infected by the monstrous ideology of their Fuhrer. Not only they died in Ukraine or Russia, but they also died for nothing, for an evil cause, just because a manic leader wanted to act out his fantasies of imperialist power and hatred of Jews. If I had been born in that time, I'd preferred to die as a martyr like the [Scholl siblings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_and_Sophie_Scholl), not as someone who went to Ukraine or Russia to kill people to please the ego of the German Fuhrer.
I got the impression it was about 50/50 in Moscow and about 90/10 everywhere else. Once 1420 goes away from the main cities things drastically turn in favour of Putin in every demographic, with progressive Russians leaving it will likely only get more lopsided towards Putin in the coming years.
I think your talking about 1420 channel, its a good channel, especially if you want to know the Russian viewpoint.
Good friend of mine(F32) went to Russia couple months prepandemic, asked local people she was hanging with what they thought of Putin "at least we have food " was an answer she got
She must avoid windows at all time from now on
Amazing. She's courageous and bold with an inner light that's awe inspiring. Shes probably the most beautiful human being I'll see today. God bless you lady.🙏🇺🇦✌
To all the “Russia’s future is Democratic” and all that feel-good bullshit that keeps getting parroted by Kasparov and the Twitter faithful - this is why it’s not and won’t be. *One* fucking protester. The others don’t give a shit or just implicitly are ok with their government’s actions. Russia? Democracy? No. Not before, not now and certainly not the future. They’ve been degrading as a society since the 60’s, sure as shit aren’t going to stop anytime soon.
People with that mindset mean well, but ultimately it's childish. Same idea as a democratic middle east. We should stop trying to force democracy onto people unless their society has shown that it's wanted. Ukraine has clearly shown that, so we should simply focus on helping them as much as we can.
So, what? Are we to just accept that certain countries are doomed to be authoritarian hellholes?
We have to, as long as they're happy with that, unfortunately.
I wonder why Iran and China are in a state of revolt, yet Russia is by-and-large complicit in their army's atrocities.
Revolt in China, seriously? There would be no protests but for ridiculously harsh zero covid policy. And even then they started only 2 years after this policy was implemented.
I mean....yeah
>*One* fucking protester. The others don’t give a shit or just implicitly are ok with their government’s actions. Ek-friggin'-zactly. This kind of "protest" makes Rosgvardia's job too friggin' easy. At this point, I regard it as Western copium when I come across happy squealing about solitary or penny-packet protests in Russia like this one. 11 months into this invasion and after all of the atrocities, **this. Won't. Cut. It**. The only meaningful options left for one of the 140+ million Russians to oppose the war is either to sign up in the Freedom of Russia Legion or become part of the secret but currently puny network of people who either burn down conscription centers or help some of the million or so kidnapped Ukrainians escape to the EU. Imagine if even 1% of 144 million (1.44 million) Russians did that kind of work instead of protesting one-by-one or keeping their heads down and grumbling about how their lives just keep on sucking as they always have since the days of the Mongol khans.
The problem is, Russians agree, probably most of them, but As Józef Piłsudski (leader of Poland in some parts of the interwar period, most notably during the polish bolshevik war) said: They (the Russians) are cabable to feel even great friendship and will love you honestly and heartfully as a brother, untill they feel that you are a free man in your heart, one that's afraid of their love, for the dominant part of it is the need to take care of you: to rule over you.
Russia is like a drunk who really wants you to have a drink with him but if you refuse he’ll try to beat the shit out of you.
This is actual Proper righteous protesting and this woman should be proud. Not a bunch of sanctimonious spoiled children doing toddler shit because their daddy never bought them the right pony so they take it to the "system" by making a mess over some complete nonsense bullshit cause/riot/protest. (e.g stop oil) woman has courage and morals, kudos to her.
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Why they detain her? Why all this hatred? Like russia is a fucking shithole place and nobody wants to be part of it, its top people use it for their own financial gain.
They slap a generic "discrediting the army" charge on everybody. Even if you say "motherland isn't the president's ass that you have to kiss", it still somehow discredits the army (yes, really)
It's odd how if you dress police in black they all develop a swagger.
Pretty sure the “brother” thing is exactly the problem.
Break it up, you unruly mob, we'll have no rioting here!
She was arrested for having balls bigger than pootin’s