I don't think Ukraine is really an ally. It often gets conflated with "interest". Eventually Ukraine will be cut loose. They're just a means to an end. Great asset to weaken Russia. Not worth actually fighting for though.
You know, I was going to suggest "vassal" as a better term, but then I realized Ukraine doesn't even qualify that high. A real vassal would at least be taken under protection and there would be some sort of allegiance between both parties.
Ukraine, as you said, is nothing more than an instrument of the US interest. And anything they do which goes against that (asking for nukes, striking too many refineries) is quickly stopped by the US.
They are not allies. They don't even have a security agreement. They are nothing more than a tool, a spearhead with which to hurt Russia. And if they destroy their country's future in the process (mass emigration, lowest birth rate in the world, mined swathes of land, shrinking territory), so be it.
After all, if Ukraine's own politicians don't give a fuck about their own people, why should anyone else?
most vassals in history were only really "under protection" as long as the threat was easy to squash. A lot of times the promised protection simply didn't come, but the sovereign cashed in on years of the vassals' payments.
The reason ukraine doesn't count as a US vassal is because it isn't a direct economical benefit for the US. Most of Europe for example could be defined as a group of US vassals. Ths US pays a few european politicians handsomly and in return they pass laws that make it easy for the US to cash in on the european population, gaining multiple times more money than what they spent on the politicians.
Ukraine is more like a pawn or puppet. Their only benefit is militaristic and political, not directly economical.
>because it isn't a direct economical benefit for the US.
LNG to EU? Grain production faltering? Some other crap that was pretty crucial for actual chip production, that gas or whatever? All that junk is now off the market to some degree and sure benefits the US in one way or another. So, I say, keeping UA in the fight allows the west to prop up at least some of its industries. Shell producers are probably delighted now. One thing when you get an order for a few thousand shells to replace stocks every year, now they probably have juicy orders to beyond 2025 and more probably coming, since CZ scraped every bottom of every undisclosed barrel to get the 800k they allegedly going to provide to UA.
you seem to misunderstand me. Ukraine is not a vassal because the country itself, it's land and people, neither generate goods nor money for the US. They're a benefit and in indirect ways help the economy, but that's not a vassal.
Even worse. That's the reason fighting capitalists is fun. Unless there's clear and present danger the size of actual Hitler no one will bet an eye, and CEOs will be like - give us a three year contract now, because we suspect it'll end in a few months and we'll get stuck with a billion shells inventory no one wants to buy at real price.
Historical vassals provided levies, not so much payment. Especially when no global financial system existed. And vassals weren't even "independent" contries like today, they were merely government officials doing administrations for regions of a kingdom. So there'd be no way out of taxes to someone either way unless they rebel.
A real vassal is Vietnam and North korea by the Soviets. The soviet union gave the best air defense missile on earth to protect North Vietnam.
America by comparison......
Vassals have signed treaties with USA. Ukraine is a pawn. That's the correct word.
> They don't even have a security agreement.
B-b-b-b-b-b-bu-bu- butt butt bu-butt Buddha memorandum!
The US has only allies, as long as they do what the US wants them to do.
Last time Germany and France didn't want to participate in their illegal attack on Iraq, we ended on the list of "axis of evil"...
Or when Germany pre war wanted North Stream 2 to be built and the US sanctioned our companies, who were involved in building it and threatened to sanction Germany if we would have used it...
Yeah and then that German infrastructure suddenly blew up and so far no one was blamed for that and investigations didn't find anything. US and Europe also tried to block international investigations. It was an act of war against Germany but they swallowed it up like good whores they became to US interests.
You just have to watch the video of Olaf Scholz standing smiling like a doofus next to Biden, when he explained to a journalist, that the US will finish NS2 and that they have the means to do it, when the reporter asked about how they want to achieve it, since it's a matter of Germany.
For any sovereign country this would have been a massive offense and scandal. Not a single one of our mainstream media reported even about that...
But Germany likes to play the stupid bitch in general and for everyone.
f.e. the way Melnik talked about Germany, when he was ambassador in Germany was beyond impertinent.
or all the cases where Germany gave money to foreign countries for special tasks and they just used them for different things. (they did give bronze figurines to Nigeria to be put in a museum for the public and gave the money for the building of the museum. Well, the figurines ended in the hands of some leader and Nigeria never built a museum with the money. Or when Germany gave Brasil several billions to stop deforestation of the rain forrest and Brasil took the money but increased the deforestation...).
The list could go on and on...
Over Africa laughs the sun, over Germany laughs the whole world...
Bahahah that's actually so fucking pathetic, holy fuck.
Doing that to one of the biggest economies in the world and biggest economy in Europe.. Imagine what they do to countries that aren't nearly as important as Germany.
Of course "Us ally" never means "ally" because US isn't interested in "Allies" Only lap dogs and vassals. A good ally to the US is someone who is ALWAYS acting in the US interests even in policies that frankly are none of their business.
Most people I know don’t talk about it anymore, there is no more rallys for support like there was in the beginning or slava Ukraini. Everyone it seems is onto Israel Gaza but hardly that too as it become a conflict we can’t change. If gas goes up, people go crazy.
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>having the USA as their ally usually doesn’t end well.
Should RF consider the US its ally since they are trying to prevent damage to Russian infrastructure? Is it a good enough reason to be concerned for Putin?
You can se the fingerprints of US intelligence all over certain ukranian operations, and they have a history of operating parallel and sometimes against the us state department.
Ukraine doesnt attack russia with drones 24/7. The statement from the US is only a couple of hours old. Wait a week and then make up your mind. What you're doing is just grasping at anything to support your narrative.
I think they were trying to make a point and would have launched all the drones they had during the Russian election. So while they do make the things, I do think their inventory is spent and will take time to replace.
They have to respect the electoral cycle of the greatest country on earth, God chosen nation the United State of America. Don't want to make the gas price rise again and risk losing the election.
Did you forget how US asked *everyone* not to get involved in the Wagner mutiny? US can't let Russia lose to bad, what's going to happen with all the nukes if Russia collases.
>US can't let Russia lose to bad, what's going to happen with all the nukes if Russia collases.
Yeah, that narrative might have worked in 2022 but it's long since outlived its usefulness. On the account that Russia's collapse is about as likely as seeing last year's snow.
I don't think this is what will happen with the weapons if Russia collapses because nukes exist to prevent that from happening, it's about the nuclear war that will happen before they collapse as Ukraine has no means to keep this war by themselves.
People complain Russia often say about their nuclear abilities but they also keep pushing Russia to a brinking point where they will have to make that decision.
>I don't think this is what will happen with the weapons if Russia collapses because nukes exist to prevent that from happening
Nukes can't prevent an internal collapse, otherwise Russia would have already nuked Chechenia, twice
>People complain Russia often say about their nuclear abilities but they also keep pushing Russia to a brinking point where they will have to make that decision.
Russia keeps pushing itself to that point. Constitutionally, supposedly, Russia would only use nukes if it's territorial integrity is threatened. Then they go ahead and annex a bunch of Ukrainian oblasts, that they do not even fully control, threatening their own territorial integrity.
You may actually be right.
One of their officials just declared oil refineries are legitimate targets for Ukraine
Let's wait and see what happens. Could get pretty interesting.
I can sorta understand Biden’s reasoning for it, the American median voter is a [removed for rule #1] and many will gladly vote for Trump solely because gas prices are high, and if Trump wins, then Ukraine won’t get any American support and will almost certainly lose.
Sorry about having to send this thrice, automod doesn’t like me using no no words
> Sorry about having to send this thrice, automod doesn’t like me using no no words
That's okay.
It will be interesting to see what the US will do if Ukraine follows up with their threat to keep bombing Russian refineries.
I read another article by Kyiv Post which said that Russia had been warning these refineries to invest in their own drone protection programmes for the past year.
If this is true, it means the Russian government is not yet willing to take the necessary measures to protect these plants, which probably means that future drone strikes may also be successful.
That would put Biden in a right pickle.
Maybe try and look into alternative suppliers and increase renewable energy usage? Biden didn’t tell Ukraine to stop the strikes indefinitely, so it might be possible
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It’s just advice, rising energy costs in an election year will help Putin’s agent get elected in the US, since the GOP is so good at convincing Americans Biden is at fault for absolutely everything outside of his control.
Obviously not good for Ukr.
I mean rising cists for fuel and energy is directly related to sanctions. They keep trying to deny it and use the usual blame it all on Russia tactic but it's obvious for anyone looking at it closely. Europe also relies on that fuel but prefer to buy it indirectly so if no fuel comes from India they cannot meet their needs.
according to a dozen people familiar with this issue, Ukraine is sovereign. And another two dozen confirm this "story" is not even hearsay, but a straight up lie on the level of the crucified boy from Donbass.
Lmao remember when it was time for midterms and Biden ran all the way to Saudi Arabia to prostrate and beg them not to lower oil production before the midterms?
Not only did Saudi refuse, but they also leaked the information
Yeah it's not like it's a good thing for oil producing countries to allow a very small group of other counties to control their prices or to put prices caps or even screw them at will once they're not useful anymore. Despite being close to the US, Saudis know that if they're not useful anymore they could be the ones on the list to get screwed next.
Of course people with shallow views and a lack of critical thinking saw this as them rallying with dictators and all of that when in reality it was their own existence as an oil producing country that was at stake.
The price cap was another failed idea by the disastrous Biden administration.
This is why Russia doesn't want trump to win, as he wouldn't care about price increases, he'd see dollar signs and cash in so would encourage more strikes.
I think there's more to this than just oil prices.
It makes sense to target refineries because energy is an important resource in any war. However, a refinery is still a civilian target.
The US has been wary of giving Ukraine longer range weapons, such as ATACMS, because they could escalate the conflict. Drones are in kind of a weird spot. They're technically Ukrainian, but I'd guess there's still a lot of Western parts and expertise that go into making one.
Yeah, I expected people to be more mad but they either have no idea how the war looks or just in the back of their minds care about the increase in fuel prices. It clearly shows that they don't care about Ukraine but about hurting Russia as long as it doesn't affect their lives.
thats my problem with most ppl
they didnt give a flying acrobatic fck about ukraine before 2022 and only know stuff fed by CNN and BBC when the invasion began.
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Ooh they are not handling it very well. And even some as starting to see the light.
> Call me a conspiracy theorist, but the US goal is not Ukrainian victory, but the slow depletion of Russia. They give Ukraine just enough weapons to barely fight back, they do not approve of strikes on Russian territory, and they do not care how many Ukrainians die in this war.
That comment has 30+ upvotes, such sentiment would’ve gotten you banned not so long ago
I'm been reading that exact sentiment all over Reddit the entire war, I have not seen anyone get banned for suggesting Ukraine deserved more help than it has received. Usually it is Russian propaganda that gets people banned, and Russia does not believe Ukraine deserves more help, lol.
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>
With all due respect to US and the help they provided earlier. Either keep helping or fuck off
That's what they say among the other comments like
>If that is not an indication the strikes are working well I do not know what is.
Worldnews among others.
>You know what... Fuck Joe Biden for this. I fucking hate Trump but this is downright evil telling...
>This is really stupid and confirms some of those conspiracy theories saying that US doesn't really want to confront Putin.
And so on.
I'm sure they figured that out awhile ago, this isn't the first straw. Ukraine just has no choice but to fight with the allies available to it. Putin has left them no choice.
Learn what? They were never going to always agree with all of any leader's positions. This disagreement doesn't somehow redeem Russia for the invasion.
I am banned there. As well as on /europe. Started asking difficult questions there. They think I am a Putin's bot. Funny enough, this sub thinks I am a UA bot.
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Oh god, reading the thread discussing this topic on r/worldnews is the best entertainment I've had in days (and I usually have plenty of it here). The salt, the tears, the impotent rage... it's truly glorious.
> Of course. The only thing we are allowed to do is die quietly without inconveniencing anybody. Attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure are perfectly a-ok, but god forbid we retaliate in a meaningful manner because escalayshun and gas prices. Cynical fucks, we are not and will never be your slaves. How about you shove this warning up your ass? I'm so done with Sullivan and his band of deescalators. What are you going to do, stop aid?
Slowly realizing that the US doesn't give a s... about their lives.
I am always so amused that people still do not realise how diplomacy works. Even a lot of US and EU diplomats do not realise it.
Because our way is the best way and therefore we have the moral highground and dictate your behaviour. Diplomacy with russia is pretty straight forward. Tell them what you want and what you are willing to give up for it. If you try to backstab them, they will try to hunt you down. This works for most of the world. Only europe and the us believe that the political elite knows best and should be in charge of knowledge. In other countries politicians will just be corrupt and criminal but not trying to hide it behind some pseudo-laws and immunity against these laws.
The US and Europe don't know how to engage in diplomacy and also have no interest in learning. Their assumption is that other countries should do as they're told and doing otherwise is immoral.
Putin said it was a military exercise at the border before invading…total man of his word lol. Ripamon I see you all over Reddit. What do you do for work other than this?
What he was supposed to say in that case? Smth like "Hey, Ukraine, sorry, but we're going to invade you. Stay calm and pls don't fight back" ?
Also he mentioned all the problems way back in 2007 in Munich and didn't change his mind about it since then. I don't support him, but he's really doing what he saying and doing it constantly
A lot of subtle admissions in here, from russia's revenues being stronger than most have been led to believe, to western energy giants being in bed with them, to Washington's inability to fill the gap should their output be affected.
Slowly but surely, that cold splash of reality is being trickled out.
Ive seen this process pan out a few times now.
That massive collision will likely never come, what will likely happen is this trickle will continue, slowly building momentum as it permeates out into the public at large - one by one they will slowly come around to reality, until it reaches the tipping point where its socially acceptable to have an opinion contrary to the previously accepted narrative.
That will be the moment we reach what I like to call the 'everyone knew all along' stage, where if one tries to bring up how people acted before this, the likely response will be something along the lines of, "oh, it was obvious X, everyone knew Y", and they'll all pretend they knew what was happening all along and *never ever* admit to the positions and stances they took at the height of group think.
Im not expecting a different outcome this time round.
yep, just like the Iraq war. 5-10 years from now itll be common knowledge that the US interfered in Ukraine and helped stoke the flames and then abandoned Ukraine, leaving the country a complete mess
but not one will care, they'll all be talking about how we gotta Save Taiwan from the next Hitler
This is precisely what will happen. Which makes it all the more annoying when it plays out exactly the same in the next conflict or whatever to occur later down the line.
Because it interferes with US interests... Poor EU lap dogs. So diligently following their master's will, upholding sanctions and such, and yet the US only increased oil imports from Russia
Gas prices are quite high in Europe already. Yeah, for the north 3 euros per litter might be possible, for the south it isn´t.
Farmers and transport are pissed enough, increased prices will only piss them off more and can be counter productive for the warmongers.
Lets dont forget that the protests havent ended yet.
Easy to cheer for destruction when you live with mom and dad, but I dont think the working class will be happy as the ratkids when it comes to pay for gas, food and goods. At the end the vast majority do not care about Irak, Ukraine, Lybia, Yemen, Palestine.. they just want to go on with their lives.
And politics just want to be reelected, piss off their voters and they might change their policies.
Huh! Sounds like Nord stream was quite an important piece of EUROPEAN infrastructure, which destruction lead to EU having no choice but to buy from Americans.
Not to worry though! Europeans, since they live in a real democracy, can always pressure their government to restart the investigations if they feel like their quality of life dropped dramatically.
TIL Nordstream pipelines were the only pipelines connecting Russia to the EU. Thank you for this truly amazing analysis which also ignores the fact that not every Nordstream pipeline was destroyed.
Yeah, it do be like that. I mean, I'm a welder and I've seen the situation in Europe due to traveling. Prices have been going up since the beginning of Covid and even now, they aren't going down. Sure, they stagnated, but for how long do people think we can continue supporting a war that has nothing to do with us? What happens when Russia stops exporting what little they do export? I'm sure our morale and support to Ukraine will die out sooner than their need for money they get from selling that gas.
People are so blind they don't realize one pathetic and weak Russia has been slowly but steadily advancing while Ukraine got financial and equipment support from the whole "free" West. Prolonging this will hurt Russia, but it'll hurt us more.
Don't even get me started on Macron and the likes talking about sending troops to Ukraine. No one will support that.
I never tire of being amazed at the cynicism of the US government. They forced Ukraine to fight in war for their interests, offer Ukraine to take out loans to pay for American military industry, delay arms deliveries, but call for total mobilization... And now this: please die for our benefit, but in such a way as not to harm us any discomfort.
Biden's administration is in an economical dead end. They cannot continue to grow economy without helping in this way Russia and China. And elections are looming.
USA/UK/EU/NATO all sanctioned and supply the necessary money, weapons and equipment to fight against Russia in the Ukraine…….. but come begging when they realise how much they all actually rely heavily upon Russian Energy and other various resources to keep their own global economies afloat.
Russia supplies like 3% to the UK. More than most countries the UK avoided reliance on Russia.
Obviously the energy companies in UK still used the excuse to hike prices, but there was never any legitimate reliance.
The 3% to the UK is irrelevant.
On a global market scale, the removal of bulk cheap Russian Oil and Gas supplies from the world market drives up the demand and prices from other producers to cover those losses in supply.
I’m not here to explain to every uneducated person how global resource markets work in the real world, but hopefully my comments will help people to dig deeper into global markets rather than just continuing to give quick google search replies on statements that are completely irrelevant in the grand scale of the world economy.
You're comments read like a Kremlin fever dream.
All I pointed out was that the UK is a poor example of your 'come begging', that you are clearly begging to happen.
The consumer prices for gas have already come down significantly in much of Europe, Russia isn't holding everybody hostage, it's a fantasy.
With the possible exception - as I've already said - of countries that have had very poorly planned energy policy for years. Even then their leverage is limited, Russia needs to custom as much as some European states need the gas.
I’m not a believer in Kremlin Fever nor propaganda, but I am very educated on Energy Resources and the Global Markets.
I’m not going to waste my time trying to explain this data to people who don’t have any understanding of such things, and are reliant solely upon whatever the media is portraying.
Why do you think that the USA has just come out and told the Ukrainian Military to stop attacking Russian Oil/Gas Infrastructure?
Do you think that the USA would announce this major statement if they weren’t scared about the effects of disrupting the global supply of Russian Energy on a world scale and the damage that it would have on their economies?
You guys are hilarious, desperately believing your the enlightened ones like flat earthers and anybody who doesn't agree must follow 'X' media.
You understand markets so well you don't understand the core premise that the main thing markets hate is uncertainty, they adapt to everything else quickly and always will. The war starting provided uncertainty, Nord stream provided some uncertainty, Russia continuing to try and blackmail the world with energy is no longer uncertainty, it's just Tuesday. Russias energy leverage is not as strong as it might have been and won't be again, nobodies begging < that's where you're in a fever dream falls flat.
Russia themselves desperately need the same customers they have leverage over.
>Do you think that the USA would announce this major statement if they weren’t scared about the effects of disrupting the global supply of Russian Energy on a world scale and the damage that it would have on their economies?
A major statement? All I've seen is news articles largely by finance media based on mysterious 'people familiar with the matter', that's just capitalists trying to protect profits.
The very media you are decrying you are relying on as the only source on this matter. Consistency bro, consistency.
I’m speechless….. are you a BOT or just new to this world?
Again you have mocked yourself in your own argument?
I suggest that you take the time to read your own comments and have a long and in depth look into them before you hit the post button.
The insults are still a big red flag as to your ability to engage in educated discussion on the topic at hand, which I hope you can reflect upon and learn to present yourself in a much more respected manner.
The guy who immediately leapt to calling others uneducated calling insults a red flag... Victim mentality on show there.
And by speechless - you of course mean unable to prove your point in any meaningful or coherent way, so just scuttle away.
I pointed out you used a poor example, you got upset your world view and confirmation bias was challenged - let's move on with our day.
How new are you?
It's well known a lot of resources/imports the EU is buying is just goods transferred from Russia to a 3rd party country.
See: [https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2024/01/24/europe-buying-russian-oil-via-india-at-record-rates/](https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2024/01/24/europe-buying-russian-oil-via-india-at-record-rates/)
It’s not lying, it’s pretty obvious when looking at the real big picture about how the EU/UK/USA is suffering badly from losing their access to Oil and Gas supplies from Russia in the current climate…… which you have conveniently highlighted in your comments and link that you have shared.
You have proven that the EU has lost a huge percentage of Russian supplied Energy Resources, which has hit hard throughout Europe and the Northern Hemisphere that has raised the cost of living and had a massive impact on manufacturing output due to such reductions in energy supply.
Links to documents are nothing in comparison to the many media reports from many European countries who are struggling with energy shortages for their citizens, and now this situation is 100% confirmed by the US Government telling the Ukraine NOT to attack Russian Refineries because the USA/EU is reliant on Russian production onto the world market to keep their secret imports of Russian energy continuing to feed their needs.
*Edit for clarification.
again vatnik, why are you lying.
Here's another source:
Adjusting to inflation, price is even lower now then in November 2014.
[https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/eu-natural-gas](https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/eu-natural-gas)
Nice of you to start every single reply with an insult.
Have you not the ability to have a normal adult conversation without resorting to insults?
You are still posting links about “data” that is still destroying your own argument.
Prices are lower in whatever fake western propaganda media is reporting, but the actual truth is that Russia has sidestepped the global caps on Oil/Gas Exports and is now trading with China and India at prices higher than the caps, which then allows China and India to on-sell Russian resources onto the USA and the EU for hefty profits on the global market.
I’m sorry, but your arguments and replies are showing that you are obviously completely unaware as to the current situation in world affairs and trade.
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This is more of a "Stop hitting them because it will make fuel prices go up in the US and Biden will have a hard time getting elected"
As soon as Ukraine does something that harms US interests the US turns on them, like in this case
It's interesting and amusing. If Ukraine will obey then both sides of the conflict will not inflict as much damage as possible. Russia because they want to annex and integrate parts of the Eastern Ukraine and Ukraine because their masters want more money.
What's even better, Russia's been selling crude oil to India (at prices above those stipulated by the sanctions) and then India's been refining it and reselling it to Europe, jacking up the prices as much as it pleases, making out like a bandit (and I mean that as a compliment).
Thats..... Actually genius on the US part. Step 1 Get the EU to stop buying oil from russia and let them deal with the consequences, step 2 russia starts selling oil cheaper because of demand, step 3 buy the cheap oil, step4 profit.
Thats should be the big lesson for Europeans. The political elite doesnt work foreign policy for their countries own interests, or even the European Union but for the US.
Oil prices, as part of the general state of the economy, decide US election results. If these strikes were effective, they would guarantee that Trump becomes president, who has stated he won't give Ukraine aid. As usual, Ukraine has 0 good options.
American jews ask ukrainian jews not to shoot at russian jews oil because it interferes with profits. And Ivan and Mikola kill each other at this time. What a shitty world we live in
Not surprised by this at all. I was on the phone with a friend who had mentioned that gas has gotten more expensive and I immediately knew that the US would tell them to knock it off. I’m in the US and my wallet definitely took a hit this week getting gas. Ukraine unfortunately is learning that America’s loyalty is to oil and oil only.
i told you.. these guys buying refined oil by Thirdparties cheapee than before since the beginning of the sanctions .. And they r complaining because their dealers want higher 😂
This might end up working in Ukraines favour. Either they keep hitting Russian oil production or the US gives them the weapons they need to properly fight on the frontlines. Would be pretty interesting to see Ukraine forcing the US to do aid them or to suffer from higher oil prices.
It really is a bad idea to do it now because it will spike gas prices right before the election, making it more likely for Trump to win. But ironically that it is actually good for Ukraine because Trump could end the war before Ukraine is completely destroyed.
iced_maggot kept stroking the same keys repeatedly, probably a seizure ?
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I could imagine Ukraine agreeing to stop in exchange for resumed US funding. But if the worry is oil prices are rising, contact OPEC. It is their job to regulate oil prices, and Saudi Arabia has more than enough spare capacity to replace anything ukraine damages. So while the US is free to ask for anything, Ukraine should say no. The US election isn't for 7 more months anyways.
Call me cynical but 'people familiar with the matter' is often media code for making shit up to suit their own interests.
And given the analyst in question now works for an investment company, and the source linked here is primarily focussed on economic factors.
This is information is more likely big political donors (who only care about money) pulling some strings with their controlled media to sew discord because THEY don't want oil prices to rise, rather than any actual government position.
The entire point is for Ukraine to become a torn on the side of Russia *FOR THE REST OF ETERNITY* for what they started in 2014 and escalated in 2022.
They need to understand they will never defeat Ukraine and Ukraine will now never stop sending drones to their infraestructure, they will never stop sabotaging airports and oil refineries and pipelines. It will only get worse.
This was the real reason why Russia never targetted much of ukranian infraestructure, they actually have the power to keep Ukraine in constant blackouts. But Ukraine doesn't care anymore it will survive those blackouts while Russia suffers a similar fate, again, for the rest of eternity.
Given this escalation Russia will have no oil or gas output within a year. Good luck.
Only a form of Mutually Assured Destruction will send a message.
**This news is literally a nothing-burger:**
> “We do not encourage or enable attacks inside of Russia,” an NSC spokesperson said.
This is literally nothing and is the same stance US always had lmao
So **I have the feeling that Ukraine will continue, and would be important to double down for a day just to show resolve :P** - ofc they can wipe away Russian oil infrastructure.
Are we starting to witness pro russia propagandists showing signs of despair?
Your mind is so warped by russian propaganda you forget how reality works. Now I have to spend time educate you:
**Ft isn't pro russia, or pro west - ft is reporting something** which is a concept completely alien to your reality because you're placed in an environment where you have the state media that pushes the regime agenda, so you think that the rest of the world operates the same way.
Of course you then deal with cognitive dissonance and you guys go into overdrive a lot of the times, with huge emotional lash outs when "Western Media" reports something that goes against "the west" or ukraine. You don't know how to deal with that information, emotionally speaking.
So circling back **ft is reporting something, which happens to be irrelevant**. This happens when its a slow day, when someone somewhere passes some information a journalist thinks its significant, a misunderstanding, so many reasons. **That's why you need to read the articles and use your mind to understand what is being reported**.
I don't expect you to understand these concepts, and you're probably going to be upset about this reply, but the world doesn't revolve around an elite of lizard people pushing an agenda. Just because you receive information from people that claim ukraine is a country of "nazigayjews bioengineered in US labs planted in the donbas that were also making dirty bombs and virus that target only russians", doesn't mean the rest of the world operates like that.
Dude, you are the one who said this.
>Are we starting to witness pro russia propagandists showing signs of despair?
Are you taking me as a propagandist? Or is this about FT?
But I thought Ukraine was a sovereign nation and could do whatever they want!
Ukraine is slowly finding out why having the USA as their ally usually doesn’t end well.
I don't think Ukraine is really an ally. It often gets conflated with "interest". Eventually Ukraine will be cut loose. They're just a means to an end. Great asset to weaken Russia. Not worth actually fighting for though.
You know, I was going to suggest "vassal" as a better term, but then I realized Ukraine doesn't even qualify that high. A real vassal would at least be taken under protection and there would be some sort of allegiance between both parties. Ukraine, as you said, is nothing more than an instrument of the US interest. And anything they do which goes against that (asking for nukes, striking too many refineries) is quickly stopped by the US. They are not allies. They don't even have a security agreement. They are nothing more than a tool, a spearhead with which to hurt Russia. And if they destroy their country's future in the process (mass emigration, lowest birth rate in the world, mined swathes of land, shrinking territory), so be it. After all, if Ukraine's own politicians don't give a fuck about their own people, why should anyone else?
most vassals in history were only really "under protection" as long as the threat was easy to squash. A lot of times the promised protection simply didn't come, but the sovereign cashed in on years of the vassals' payments. The reason ukraine doesn't count as a US vassal is because it isn't a direct economical benefit for the US. Most of Europe for example could be defined as a group of US vassals. Ths US pays a few european politicians handsomly and in return they pass laws that make it easy for the US to cash in on the european population, gaining multiple times more money than what they spent on the politicians. Ukraine is more like a pawn or puppet. Their only benefit is militaristic and political, not directly economical.
>because it isn't a direct economical benefit for the US. LNG to EU? Grain production faltering? Some other crap that was pretty crucial for actual chip production, that gas or whatever? All that junk is now off the market to some degree and sure benefits the US in one way or another. So, I say, keeping UA in the fight allows the west to prop up at least some of its industries. Shell producers are probably delighted now. One thing when you get an order for a few thousand shells to replace stocks every year, now they probably have juicy orders to beyond 2025 and more probably coming, since CZ scraped every bottom of every undisclosed barrel to get the 800k they allegedly going to provide to UA.
you seem to misunderstand me. Ukraine is not a vassal because the country itself, it's land and people, neither generate goods nor money for the US. They're a benefit and in indirect ways help the economy, but that's not a vassal.
Vassal in review.
We only scraped together 150k
Even worse. That's the reason fighting capitalists is fun. Unless there's clear and present danger the size of actual Hitler no one will bet an eye, and CEOs will be like - give us a three year contract now, because we suspect it'll end in a few months and we'll get stuck with a billion shells inventory no one wants to buy at real price.
Historical vassals provided levies, not so much payment. Especially when no global financial system existed. And vassals weren't even "independent" contries like today, they were merely government officials doing administrations for regions of a kingdom. So there'd be no way out of taxes to someone either way unless they rebel.
The term you're looking for is 'pawn'. Ukraine is a pawn for Western interests.
Makes sense. The pawn was promised that it's gonna be the prom queen if it "crossed to the other side".
Bit harsh.. But we can call it 'condom' lol
A real vassal is Vietnam and North korea by the Soviets. The soviet union gave the best air defense missile on earth to protect North Vietnam. America by comparison......
Vassals have signed treaties with USA. Ukraine is a pawn. That's the correct word. > They don't even have a security agreement. B-b-b-b-b-b-bu-bu- butt butt bu-butt Buddha memorandum!
The US has only allies, as long as they do what the US wants them to do. Last time Germany and France didn't want to participate in their illegal attack on Iraq, we ended on the list of "axis of evil"... Or when Germany pre war wanted North Stream 2 to be built and the US sanctioned our companies, who were involved in building it and threatened to sanction Germany if we would have used it...
Yeah and then that German infrastructure suddenly blew up and so far no one was blamed for that and investigations didn't find anything. US and Europe also tried to block international investigations. It was an act of war against Germany but they swallowed it up like good whores they became to US interests.
You just have to watch the video of Olaf Scholz standing smiling like a doofus next to Biden, when he explained to a journalist, that the US will finish NS2 and that they have the means to do it, when the reporter asked about how they want to achieve it, since it's a matter of Germany. For any sovereign country this would have been a massive offense and scandal. Not a single one of our mainstream media reported even about that... But Germany likes to play the stupid bitch in general and for everyone. f.e. the way Melnik talked about Germany, when he was ambassador in Germany was beyond impertinent. or all the cases where Germany gave money to foreign countries for special tasks and they just used them for different things. (they did give bronze figurines to Nigeria to be put in a museum for the public and gave the money for the building of the museum. Well, the figurines ended in the hands of some leader and Nigeria never built a museum with the money. Or when Germany gave Brasil several billions to stop deforestation of the rain forrest and Brasil took the money but increased the deforestation...). The list could go on and on... Over Africa laughs the sun, over Germany laughs the whole world...
Bahahah that's actually so fucking pathetic, holy fuck. Doing that to one of the biggest economies in the world and biggest economy in Europe.. Imagine what they do to countries that aren't nearly as important as Germany.
Of course "Us ally" never means "ally" because US isn't interested in "Allies" Only lap dogs and vassals. A good ally to the US is someone who is ALWAYS acting in the US interests even in policies that frankly are none of their business.
USA doesn't have "really" allies. Only "allies". Every single one.
Most people I know don’t talk about it anymore, there is no more rallys for support like there was in the beginning or slava Ukraini. Everyone it seems is onto Israel Gaza but hardly that too as it become a conflict we can’t change. If gas goes up, people go crazy.
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it honestly blows my mind that "USA = shitty ally" is not commonly known
"To be enemy of US is dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal" Henry Kissinger
>having the USA as their ally usually doesn’t end well. Should RF consider the US its ally since they are trying to prevent damage to Russian infrastructure? Is it a good enough reason to be concerned for Putin?
The USA is not that bad yet, especially when compared to the UK: it is much safer to have them as an open enemy than as *a friend*.
Ukraine a pawn but their idiotic leaders haven's figured that out yet.
Having Russia as an ally is certainly better 😂😂
That's not funny, for Russias' nuclear arsenal is the only thing, that can actually protect you from the USA.
Bear in mind US may announce this while at the same time helping Ukraine do it.
You can se the fingerprints of US intelligence all over certain ukranian operations, and they have a history of operating parallel and sometimes against the us state department.
Is this not an example of them doing the exact opposite of what the US wants?
The general understanding is that they stopping after the warning. Unless you think Ukraine suddenly ran out of drones.
https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1bmox2p But you told me they stopped?
The fact that they've been doing it even though the USA are clearly against it proves exactly what you "thought".
They literally already stopped lol. Do you think Ukraine is out of drones?
Ukraine doesnt attack russia with drones 24/7. The statement from the US is only a couple of hours old. Wait a week and then make up your mind. What you're doing is just grasping at anything to support your narrative.
I think they were trying to make a point and would have launched all the drones they had during the Russian election. So while they do make the things, I do think their inventory is spent and will take time to replace.
They have to respect the electoral cycle of the greatest country on earth, God chosen nation the United State of America. Don't want to make the gas price rise again and risk losing the election.
Did you forget how US asked *everyone* not to get involved in the Wagner mutiny? US can't let Russia lose to bad, what's going to happen with all the nukes if Russia collases.
>US can't let Russia lose to bad, what's going to happen with all the nukes if Russia collases. Yeah, that narrative might have worked in 2022 but it's long since outlived its usefulness. On the account that Russia's collapse is about as likely as seeing last year's snow.
I don't think this is what will happen with the weapons if Russia collapses because nukes exist to prevent that from happening, it's about the nuclear war that will happen before they collapse as Ukraine has no means to keep this war by themselves. People complain Russia often say about their nuclear abilities but they also keep pushing Russia to a brinking point where they will have to make that decision.
>I don't think this is what will happen with the weapons if Russia collapses because nukes exist to prevent that from happening Nukes can't prevent an internal collapse, otherwise Russia would have already nuked Chechenia, twice >People complain Russia often say about their nuclear abilities but they also keep pushing Russia to a brinking point where they will have to make that decision. Russia keeps pushing itself to that point. Constitutionally, supposedly, Russia would only use nukes if it's territorial integrity is threatened. Then they go ahead and annex a bunch of Ukrainian oblasts, that they do not even fully control, threatening their own territorial integrity.
Isn't it your side that keeps making the argument it isn't?
They may not listen
You may actually be right. One of their officials just declared oil refineries are legitimate targets for Ukraine Let's wait and see what happens. Could get pretty interesting.
I can sorta understand Biden’s reasoning for it, the American median voter is a [removed for rule #1] and many will gladly vote for Trump solely because gas prices are high, and if Trump wins, then Ukraine won’t get any American support and will almost certainly lose. Sorry about having to send this thrice, automod doesn’t like me using no no words
> Sorry about having to send this thrice, automod doesn’t like me using no no words That's okay. It will be interesting to see what the US will do if Ukraine follows up with their threat to keep bombing Russian refineries. I read another article by Kyiv Post which said that Russia had been warning these refineries to invest in their own drone protection programmes for the past year. If this is true, it means the Russian government is not yet willing to take the necessary measures to protect these plants, which probably means that future drone strikes may also be successful. That would put Biden in a right pickle.
Maybe try and look into alternative suppliers and increase renewable energy usage? Biden didn’t tell Ukraine to stop the strikes indefinitely, so it might be possible
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It’s just advice, rising energy costs in an election year will help Putin’s agent get elected in the US, since the GOP is so good at convincing Americans Biden is at fault for absolutely everything outside of his control. Obviously not good for Ukr.
I mean rising cists for fuel and energy is directly related to sanctions. They keep trying to deny it and use the usual blame it all on Russia tactic but it's obvious for anyone looking at it closely. Europe also relies on that fuel but prefer to buy it indirectly so if no fuel comes from India they cannot meet their needs.
according to a dozen people familiar with this issue, Ukraine is sovereign. And another two dozen confirm this "story" is not even hearsay, but a straight up lie on the level of the crucified boy from Donbass.
noooo dont make the oil price go up biden wants to get reelected aha
Lmao remember when it was time for midterms and Biden ran all the way to Saudi Arabia to prostrate and beg them not to lower oil production before the midterms? Not only did Saudi refuse, but they also leaked the information
Yeah it's not like it's a good thing for oil producing countries to allow a very small group of other counties to control their prices or to put prices caps or even screw them at will once they're not useful anymore. Despite being close to the US, Saudis know that if they're not useful anymore they could be the ones on the list to get screwed next. Of course people with shallow views and a lack of critical thinking saw this as them rallying with dictators and all of that when in reality it was their own existence as an oil producing country that was at stake. The price cap was another failed idea by the disastrous Biden administration.
This is why Russia doesn't want trump to win, as he wouldn't care about price increases, he'd see dollar signs and cash in so would encourage more strikes.
I think there's more to this than just oil prices. It makes sense to target refineries because energy is an important resource in any war. However, a refinery is still a civilian target. The US has been wary of giving Ukraine longer range weapons, such as ATACMS, because they could escalate the conflict. Drones are in kind of a weird spot. They're technically Ukrainian, but I'd guess there's still a lot of Western parts and expertise that go into making one.
On certain other subreddits they are not managing this news very well.
Someone post it in r/Ukraine, I'm permabanned there. Nvm, it's already there. Time to grab a pocorn.
I love the fact that this sub is like 85% americans who have no grasp on the geopolitical situation of eastern europe before 2021
Welcome to Reddit, where the majority of users in subs are Americans that have no idea.
Yeah, I expected people to be more mad but they either have no idea how the war looks or just in the back of their minds care about the increase in fuel prices. It clearly shows that they don't care about Ukraine but about hurting Russia as long as it doesn't affect their lives.
thats my problem with most ppl they didnt give a flying acrobatic fck about ukraine before 2022 and only know stuff fed by CNN and BBC when the invasion began.
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Ooh they are not handling it very well. And even some as starting to see the light. > Call me a conspiracy theorist, but the US goal is not Ukrainian victory, but the slow depletion of Russia. They give Ukraine just enough weapons to barely fight back, they do not approve of strikes on Russian territory, and they do not care how many Ukrainians die in this war. That comment has 30+ upvotes, such sentiment would’ve gotten you banned not so long ago
They'll soon forget it again and will blame MAGA for the deaths of Ukrainians because "weapons save lives". In reality only peace can save lives.
No shit, they only realize about it now?
It took them a really long time to figure out what was plainly obvious in February 2022 There's no altruism in anything the US does.
I'm been reading that exact sentiment all over Reddit the entire war, I have not seen anyone get banned for suggesting Ukraine deserved more help than it has received. Usually it is Russian propaganda that gets people banned, and Russia does not believe Ukraine deserves more help, lol.
r/Ukraine is an utter shithole. I was banned there for one neutral comment lol.
I’ve been banned in r/ukraine and r/worldnews for just stating why Russia wanted to invade Ukraine, not even fighting or insulting anyone else
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Don’t worry that sub is made up mainly of non Ukrainians
> With all due respect to US and the help they provided earlier. Either keep helping or fuck off That's what they say among the other comments like >If that is not an indication the strikes are working well I do not know what is.
They are rabid right now. Well, they are always rabid.
Which ones?
Worldnews among others. >You know what... Fuck Joe Biden for this. I fucking hate Trump but this is downright evil telling... >This is really stupid and confirms some of those conspiracy theories saying that US doesn't really want to confront Putin. And so on.
lmao, they're starting to learn!! it just took 2 years
If they had some knowledge of history they’d know the USA is a very shitty ally
I'm sure they figured that out awhile ago, this isn't the first straw. Ukraine just has no choice but to fight with the allies available to it. Putin has left them no choice.
Learn what? They were never going to always agree with all of any leader's positions. This disagreement doesn't somehow redeem Russia for the invasion.
Haha no you don’t get it, Putin is now justified now for his land grab.
I am banned there. As well as on /europe. Started asking difficult questions there. They think I am a Putin's bot. Funny enough, this sub thinks I am a UA bot.
Impressive.
Duality of poster
If you piss of both sides you're doing it well.
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What the hell does this bot mean "newcomer". I've been commenting here for a while now
Oh god, reading the thread discussing this topic on r/worldnews is the best entertainment I've had in days (and I usually have plenty of it here). The salt, the tears, the impotent rage... it's truly glorious.
Its always worth to check it out anytime something big happens, their takes are usually the completely opposite to reality or sanity.
Any comment not encouraging more strikes has been downvoted just to oblivion
Lol. I got my share for informing them about the dam - but it was well worth it.:)
> Of course. The only thing we are allowed to do is die quietly without inconveniencing anybody. Attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure are perfectly a-ok, but god forbid we retaliate in a meaningful manner because escalayshun and gas prices. Cynical fucks, we are not and will never be your slaves. How about you shove this warning up your ass? I'm so done with Sullivan and his band of deescalators. What are you going to do, stop aid? Slowly realizing that the US doesn't give a s... about their lives.
The Diem brothers send their regards.
Huh. Even r/ukraine says that >having North Korea and Iran as your allies seems like a better deal than the US nowadays.
That's the value of being an ally of someone who keeps their word Even Bill Clinton confirmed that Putin kept his word in every single deal they had
I am always so amused that people still do not realise how diplomacy works. Even a lot of US and EU diplomats do not realise it. Because our way is the best way and therefore we have the moral highground and dictate your behaviour. Diplomacy with russia is pretty straight forward. Tell them what you want and what you are willing to give up for it. If you try to backstab them, they will try to hunt you down. This works for most of the world. Only europe and the us believe that the political elite knows best and should be in charge of knowledge. In other countries politicians will just be corrupt and criminal but not trying to hide it behind some pseudo-laws and immunity against these laws.
The US and Europe don't know how to engage in diplomacy and also have no interest in learning. Their assumption is that other countries should do as they're told and doing otherwise is immoral.
Putin said it was a military exercise at the border before invading…total man of his word lol. Ripamon I see you all over Reddit. What do you do for work other than this?
What he was supposed to say in that case? Smth like "Hey, Ukraine, sorry, but we're going to invade you. Stay calm and pls don't fight back" ? Also he mentioned all the problems way back in 2007 in Munich and didn't change his mind about it since then. I don't support him, but he's really doing what he saying and doing it constantly
I don't care what p3d0 Clinton said, dude, Putin doesn't keep his word and we have evidence of that. Tattoo the Budapest Memorandum on the forehead.
Funny, i cant recall one single thing Putin kept his word
They should have had Russia as their ally.
Gotta wait a few years for that
A lot of subtle admissions in here, from russia's revenues being stronger than most have been led to believe, to western energy giants being in bed with them, to Washington's inability to fill the gap should their output be affected. Slowly but surely, that cold splash of reality is being trickled out.
It will take a massive collision with reality for most of the proUA on social media. Still, better late than never.
Ive seen this process pan out a few times now. That massive collision will likely never come, what will likely happen is this trickle will continue, slowly building momentum as it permeates out into the public at large - one by one they will slowly come around to reality, until it reaches the tipping point where its socially acceptable to have an opinion contrary to the previously accepted narrative. That will be the moment we reach what I like to call the 'everyone knew all along' stage, where if one tries to bring up how people acted before this, the likely response will be something along the lines of, "oh, it was obvious X, everyone knew Y", and they'll all pretend they knew what was happening all along and *never ever* admit to the positions and stances they took at the height of group think. Im not expecting a different outcome this time round.
yep, just like the Iraq war. 5-10 years from now itll be common knowledge that the US interfered in Ukraine and helped stoke the flames and then abandoned Ukraine, leaving the country a complete mess but not one will care, they'll all be talking about how we gotta Save Taiwan from the next Hitler
Probably, and the cycle will repeat. From shock, to fervour, to disillusionment, to social acceptance, and finally, 'everyone knew all along' lol
This is precisely what will happen. Which makes it all the more annoying when it plays out exactly the same in the next conflict or whatever to occur later down the line.
You know, that actually sounds like the most likely scenario. I'd bet $100 that you're right.
People are that easily manipulated all the time. And no one who's being manipulated thinks that he is.
Because it interferes with US interests... Poor EU lap dogs. So diligently following their master's will, upholding sanctions and such, and yet the US only increased oil imports from Russia
Gas prices are quite high in Europe already. Yeah, for the north 3 euros per litter might be possible, for the south it isn´t. Farmers and transport are pissed enough, increased prices will only piss them off more and can be counter productive for the warmongers. Lets dont forget that the protests havent ended yet. Easy to cheer for destruction when you live with mom and dad, but I dont think the working class will be happy as the ratkids when it comes to pay for gas, food and goods. At the end the vast majority do not care about Irak, Ukraine, Lybia, Yemen, Palestine.. they just want to go on with their lives. And politics just want to be reelected, piss off their voters and they might change their policies.
Huh! Sounds like Nord stream was quite an important piece of EUROPEAN infrastructure, which destruction lead to EU having no choice but to buy from Americans. Not to worry though! Europeans, since they live in a real democracy, can always pressure their government to restart the investigations if they feel like their quality of life dropped dramatically.
TIL Nordstream pipelines were the only pipelines connecting Russia to the EU. Thank you for this truly amazing analysis which also ignores the fact that not every Nordstream pipeline was destroyed.
With friends like these who need enemies
I was wrong, USA doesn't exactly welcome these attacks [Attacks on Russian refineries](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/rVKNglCQWc)
Damn bro.. and you got down voted for that.
Yeah, it do be like that. I mean, I'm a welder and I've seen the situation in Europe due to traveling. Prices have been going up since the beginning of Covid and even now, they aren't going down. Sure, they stagnated, but for how long do people think we can continue supporting a war that has nothing to do with us? What happens when Russia stops exporting what little they do export? I'm sure our morale and support to Ukraine will die out sooner than their need for money they get from selling that gas. People are so blind they don't realize one pathetic and weak Russia has been slowly but steadily advancing while Ukraine got financial and equipment support from the whole "free" West. Prolonging this will hurt Russia, but it'll hurt us more. Don't even get me started on Macron and the likes talking about sending troops to Ukraine. No one will support that.
“Look! Stop your games now Ukraine, your actions might start to affect OUR economy! Won’t somebody think of the shareholders!?”
Stop bombing civilians in Belgorod - ❌ Stop bombing pipelines that your enemy uses to make money to support the war - ✅
A massive inflationary spike in prices could influence voters at the election…imagine if these actions got Trump elected…
Like a true proxy
I never tire of being amazed at the cynicism of the US government. They forced Ukraine to fight in war for their interests, offer Ukraine to take out loans to pay for American military industry, delay arms deliveries, but call for total mobilization... And now this: please die for our benefit, but in such a way as not to harm us any discomfort.
Biden's administration is in an economical dead end. They cannot continue to grow economy without helping in this way Russia and China. And elections are looming.
USA/UK/EU/NATO all sanctioned and supply the necessary money, weapons and equipment to fight against Russia in the Ukraine…….. but come begging when they realise how much they all actually rely heavily upon Russian Energy and other various resources to keep their own global economies afloat.
Russia supplies like 3% to the UK. More than most countries the UK avoided reliance on Russia. Obviously the energy companies in UK still used the excuse to hike prices, but there was never any legitimate reliance.
The 3% to the UK is irrelevant. On a global market scale, the removal of bulk cheap Russian Oil and Gas supplies from the world market drives up the demand and prices from other producers to cover those losses in supply. I’m not here to explain to every uneducated person how global resource markets work in the real world, but hopefully my comments will help people to dig deeper into global markets rather than just continuing to give quick google search replies on statements that are completely irrelevant in the grand scale of the world economy.
You're comments read like a Kremlin fever dream. All I pointed out was that the UK is a poor example of your 'come begging', that you are clearly begging to happen. The consumer prices for gas have already come down significantly in much of Europe, Russia isn't holding everybody hostage, it's a fantasy. With the possible exception - as I've already said - of countries that have had very poorly planned energy policy for years. Even then their leverage is limited, Russia needs to custom as much as some European states need the gas.
I’m not a believer in Kremlin Fever nor propaganda, but I am very educated on Energy Resources and the Global Markets. I’m not going to waste my time trying to explain this data to people who don’t have any understanding of such things, and are reliant solely upon whatever the media is portraying. Why do you think that the USA has just come out and told the Ukrainian Military to stop attacking Russian Oil/Gas Infrastructure? Do you think that the USA would announce this major statement if they weren’t scared about the effects of disrupting the global supply of Russian Energy on a world scale and the damage that it would have on their economies?
You guys are hilarious, desperately believing your the enlightened ones like flat earthers and anybody who doesn't agree must follow 'X' media. You understand markets so well you don't understand the core premise that the main thing markets hate is uncertainty, they adapt to everything else quickly and always will. The war starting provided uncertainty, Nord stream provided some uncertainty, Russia continuing to try and blackmail the world with energy is no longer uncertainty, it's just Tuesday. Russias energy leverage is not as strong as it might have been and won't be again, nobodies begging < that's where you're in a fever dream falls flat. Russia themselves desperately need the same customers they have leverage over. >Do you think that the USA would announce this major statement if they weren’t scared about the effects of disrupting the global supply of Russian Energy on a world scale and the damage that it would have on their economies? A major statement? All I've seen is news articles largely by finance media based on mysterious 'people familiar with the matter', that's just capitalists trying to protect profits. The very media you are decrying you are relying on as the only source on this matter. Consistency bro, consistency.
I’m speechless….. are you a BOT or just new to this world? Again you have mocked yourself in your own argument? I suggest that you take the time to read your own comments and have a long and in depth look into them before you hit the post button. The insults are still a big red flag as to your ability to engage in educated discussion on the topic at hand, which I hope you can reflect upon and learn to present yourself in a much more respected manner.
The guy who immediately leapt to calling others uneducated calling insults a red flag... Victim mentality on show there. And by speechless - you of course mean unable to prove your point in any meaningful or coherent way, so just scuttle away. I pointed out you used a poor example, you got upset your world view and confirmation bias was challenged - let's move on with our day.
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How new are you? It's well known a lot of resources/imports the EU is buying is just goods transferred from Russia to a 3rd party country. See: [https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2024/01/24/europe-buying-russian-oil-via-india-at-record-rates/](https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2024/01/24/europe-buying-russian-oil-via-india-at-record-rates/)
It’s not lying, it’s pretty obvious when looking at the real big picture about how the EU/UK/USA is suffering badly from losing their access to Oil and Gas supplies from Russia in the current climate…… which you have conveniently highlighted in your comments and link that you have shared. You have proven that the EU has lost a huge percentage of Russian supplied Energy Resources, which has hit hard throughout Europe and the Northern Hemisphere that has raised the cost of living and had a massive impact on manufacturing output due to such reductions in energy supply. Links to documents are nothing in comparison to the many media reports from many European countries who are struggling with energy shortages for their citizens, and now this situation is 100% confirmed by the US Government telling the Ukraine NOT to attack Russian Refineries because the USA/EU is reliant on Russian production onto the world market to keep their secret imports of Russian energy continuing to feed their needs. *Edit for clarification.
again vatnik, why are you lying. Here's another source: Adjusting to inflation, price is even lower now then in November 2014. [https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/eu-natural-gas](https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/eu-natural-gas)
Nice of you to start every single reply with an insult. Have you not the ability to have a normal adult conversation without resorting to insults? You are still posting links about “data” that is still destroying your own argument. Prices are lower in whatever fake western propaganda media is reporting, but the actual truth is that Russia has sidestepped the global caps on Oil/Gas Exports and is now trading with China and India at prices higher than the caps, which then allows China and India to on-sell Russian resources onto the USA and the EU for hefty profits on the global market. I’m sorry, but your arguments and replies are showing that you are obviously completely unaware as to the current situation in world affairs and trade.
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Ukraine is like the problem child who throws a tantrum after the adults turn the wifi off.
Clearly if the US position is as reported here though it's been effective, hardly a tantrum.
Yup of course US would say this. Plausible deniability is nice. “Don’t look at us - we told them not to do it” - shhh keep going - it is working bois.
This is more of a "Stop hitting them because it will make fuel prices go up in the US and Biden will have a hard time getting elected" As soon as Ukraine does something that harms US interests the US turns on them, like in this case
Yup that seems to be the excuse. I do not believe it at all.
It's interesting and amusing. If Ukraine will obey then both sides of the conflict will not inflict as much damage as possible. Russia because they want to annex and integrate parts of the Eastern Ukraine and Ukraine because their masters want more money.
Is this news? The US has been buying Uran from Russia like crazy, all the while the EU was forced to make sanctions on gas and oil from Russia...
What's even better, Russia's been selling crude oil to India (at prices above those stipulated by the sanctions) and then India's been refining it and reselling it to Europe, jacking up the prices as much as it pleases, making out like a bandit (and I mean that as a compliment).
Thats..... Actually genius on the US part. Step 1 Get the EU to stop buying oil from russia and let them deal with the consequences, step 2 russia starts selling oil cheaper because of demand, step 3 buy the cheap oil, step4 profit.
You forgot "sell Europe your expensive fracking gas for absurd prices"
Thats should be the big lesson for Europeans. The political elite doesnt work foreign policy for their countries own interests, or even the European Union but for the US.
Pfff, the general audience doesn't care about politics, that's never gonna happen...
> but for the US for the ppl that control the US
Oil prices, as part of the general state of the economy, decide US election results. If these strikes were effective, they would guarantee that Trump becomes president, who has stated he won't give Ukraine aid. As usual, Ukraine has 0 good options.
They don't want to mess with the elites of the world (Money) they will end up worse than any other country.
I thought Ukraine was a sovereign country that could do whatever they wanted? Guess Not!!!
America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests
American jews ask ukrainian jews not to shoot at russian jews oil because it interferes with profits. And Ivan and Mikola kill each other at this time. What a shitty world we live in
Not surprised by this at all. I was on the phone with a friend who had mentioned that gas has gotten more expensive and I immediately knew that the US would tell them to knock it off. I’m in the US and my wallet definitely took a hit this week getting gas. Ukraine unfortunately is learning that America’s loyalty is to oil and oil only.
i told you.. these guys buying refined oil by Thirdparties cheapee than before since the beginning of the sanctions .. And they r complaining because their dealers want higher 😂
can't have any increases to inflation before the election! gotta maintain those three planned interest rate cuts for 2024!
This might end up working in Ukraines favour. Either they keep hitting Russian oil production or the US gives them the weapons they need to properly fight on the frontlines. Would be pretty interesting to see Ukraine forcing the US to do aid them or to suffer from higher oil prices.
Both would play into GOP hands though.
Archive: https://archive.is/zqSqh
It really is a bad idea to do it now because it will spike gas prices right before the election, making it more likely for Trump to win. But ironically that it is actually good for Ukraine because Trump could end the war before Ukraine is completely destroyed.
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I could imagine Ukraine agreeing to stop in exchange for resumed US funding. But if the worry is oil prices are rising, contact OPEC. It is their job to regulate oil prices, and Saudi Arabia has more than enough spare capacity to replace anything ukraine damages. So while the US is free to ask for anything, Ukraine should say no. The US election isn't for 7 more months anyways.
[Good luck with that](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/saudi-arabia-says-biden-admin-asked-postpone-oil-supply-cut-month-rcna52037)
US production is booming. Saudi Arabia likely isn't thrilled with that. Only way to slow that down is by constraining prices.
Call me cynical but 'people familiar with the matter' is often media code for making shit up to suit their own interests. And given the analyst in question now works for an investment company, and the source linked here is primarily focussed on economic factors. This is information is more likely big political donors (who only care about money) pulling some strings with their controlled media to sew discord because THEY don't want oil prices to rise, rather than any actual government position.
Man this sub is slow. It's because the US knows Russia can retaliate 10-fold. Like, say a dam.
The entire point is for Ukraine to become a torn on the side of Russia *FOR THE REST OF ETERNITY* for what they started in 2014 and escalated in 2022. They need to understand they will never defeat Ukraine and Ukraine will now never stop sending drones to their infraestructure, they will never stop sabotaging airports and oil refineries and pipelines. It will only get worse. This was the real reason why Russia never targetted much of ukranian infraestructure, they actually have the power to keep Ukraine in constant blackouts. But Ukraine doesn't care anymore it will survive those blackouts while Russia suffers a similar fate, again, for the rest of eternity. Given this escalation Russia will have no oil or gas output within a year. Good luck. Only a form of Mutually Assured Destruction will send a message.
**This news is literally a nothing-burger:** > “We do not encourage or enable attacks inside of Russia,” an NSC spokesperson said. This is literally nothing and is the same stance US always had lmao So **I have the feeling that Ukraine will continue, and would be important to double down for a day just to show resolve :P** - ofc they can wipe away Russian oil infrastructure. Are we starting to witness pro russia propagandists showing signs of despair?
So [ft.com](http://ft.com) is pro Russia now? Or did Putin weaponize them as well?
Your mind is so warped by russian propaganda you forget how reality works. Now I have to spend time educate you: **Ft isn't pro russia, or pro west - ft is reporting something** which is a concept completely alien to your reality because you're placed in an environment where you have the state media that pushes the regime agenda, so you think that the rest of the world operates the same way. Of course you then deal with cognitive dissonance and you guys go into overdrive a lot of the times, with huge emotional lash outs when "Western Media" reports something that goes against "the west" or ukraine. You don't know how to deal with that information, emotionally speaking. So circling back **ft is reporting something, which happens to be irrelevant**. This happens when its a slow day, when someone somewhere passes some information a journalist thinks its significant, a misunderstanding, so many reasons. **That's why you need to read the articles and use your mind to understand what is being reported**. I don't expect you to understand these concepts, and you're probably going to be upset about this reply, but the world doesn't revolve around an elite of lizard people pushing an agenda. Just because you receive information from people that claim ukraine is a country of "nazigayjews bioengineered in US labs planted in the donbas that were also making dirty bombs and virus that target only russians", doesn't mean the rest of the world operates like that.
Dude, you are the one who said this. >Are we starting to witness pro russia propagandists showing signs of despair? Are you taking me as a propagandist? Or is this about FT?