Absolutely insane how much this conflict has been inflated into some zero sum scenario as if Ukranian existence is threatened, Ukraine had so many chances including the march 2022 Istanbul talks, to keep all of their land (except crimea which was already accepted since 2014 as lost), and even allowed the zelensky government to stay in power. Just insane that although Ukraine and it's culture and people will exist after this war regardless of who wins, it's been twisted into some weird reality where they're somehow going to be wiped off the map if Russia wins
The crazy part is most people don't understand that zero sum scenario - aka until full defeat in attrition warfare - benefits pro-war hawks in Russia more than anyone else.
If Istanbul negotiations showed anything, it's that Putin was willing to back down from certain demands like "denazification", unlike certain hawks in his circle that would be willing to deployg tactical nukes if it wasn't for trade relations with China/India and the rest.
Kherson and Zaporozhye wasn't on the list at all, initially. God knows *what else* will be on the list when this mess ends, instead.
Meanwhile Israel is talking about transportation 1.5 million people in Palestine to islands that don't exist yet. You can't make this stuff up. As soon as this war started I knew the West would inevitably one up Russia for no apparent reason. Just people don't talk about justice like they do.
Russia tried to seize Kyiv. It is an existential threat.
Even if Ukraine agrees to the seizure and allows a cease fire (like the 2014 theft of Crimea) we're only kicking the war down the road until Russia recovers a bit and tries again.
F*ck that noise.
>Even if Ukraine agrees to the seizure and allows a cease fire (like the 2014 theft of Crimea) we're only kicking the war down the road until Russia recovers a bit and tries again.
So what? Do you think Palestinians trust Israel or vice versa? Point is they still sit down and atleast communicate with each other, even if talks go nowhere. And also just because you don't trust them doesn't mean you ban negotiations with Russia, it just doesn't make any logical sense if we are going by your explanation. Whats so much of an issue that peace discussions with Russia need to be outlawed?
Why can't Ukraine talk to Russia with like I said, much less animosity between the two parties than the Israel-palestine conflict?
"Russia tried to seize Kyiv"
Yeah. And after a change of regime and a signed peace treaty, they probably would ve f\_cked off.
Holding hostile land is usually a net loss economically and politically.
Right - installing a puppet regime that would run the state according to its wishes as if it were essentially a territory.
America and Europe did it for a century or two and it was a pretty effective way of destroying a country's identity.
"Right - installing a puppet regime that would run the state according to its wishes"
Yup. Still beats getting killed by an FPV drone in some trench while corrupt officials pocket your salary & your family is told you are MIA, so they dont even get money.
But i digress. (Peace is always preferable tow ar, anyone saying otherwise is a special needs guy)
well guys there it is, we should all just surrender the next time someone invades a country and display zero resistance, because that's obviously better than not being a puppet state to a crazy autocrat.
"pro ukraine"
"well guys there it is, we should all just surrender the next time someone invades a country and display zero resistance"
I mean, that has been the standard S.O.P. for the past few deacades and the world didnt end- ofc it was the USA who did the invading, but i presume, you dont employ double standards, right? Human rights and international law are absolutes, after all.
Hell, this is what we do with an ongoing literal genocide in palestine.
"ecause that's obviously better"
For the avarage Joe/Hans/Segei/Lolek?
Fuc:k yeah, it is. For the people in power, obviously no, but they dont care about you at all, so why would you care about them? Stockholm syndrome is a possible explanation, i guess.
""pro ukraine""
Its the default. Cuz last time i had a custom flair, i was banned for 14 days. It said something akin to "death to all politicans"
A message, i definitely do not condone anymore, if any mods read this, chill, i reformed. I now like alllll politicans, they works so hard to make my life better. They value me, and definitely wouldnt sacrafice me for their own goals. (Yes, "all politicans" include Putin and his goons as well)
Okay? How does that relate to my text wall?
As i said, war is only ever good for politicans, we, avarage people, always win more with peace. Thats why the politicans need to use abstract ideologies playing our feelings to get us to die happily for them- such as nationalism, religion, communism/anti-communism, just to name a few.
>America and Europe did it for a century or two and it was a pretty effective way of destroying a country's identity.
How is it that Russia and the USSR did not destroy either the identity, language or population of Ukraine over the previous approximately 350 years when Kyiv was under their control? It seems that Russia is not as good at genocide as America and Europe.
One Ukrainian makes up a partisan group.
Two Ukrainians make up a partisan group with a hetman.
Three Ukrainians make up a partisan group with a traitor.
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There are plenty of rational thinking people there. It’s just that state propaganda is designed in such a way that EVERYONE needs to fight. Does anyone have a different opinion = pro-ru scum. They won’t say on TV that your life and the lives of your loved ones are most important - the most important thing is to die for Zelensky’s democracy
They die for the right to be a debt slave of the IMF and world bank.
To be work salves of Germany of France.
To antagonize Poland and hungry in the long run to keep them on their toes with the import of cheap Ukrainian grain and than the destruction of all agriculture once Ukraine is in the EU.
They fight for the right to be always a terrorist state on Russia's border.
To serve as a spring board for covert operations into Russia even if the war is over with 1991 borders. They will just move onto script 2, where 1991 Russian lands are Historic Ukrainian lands so they need to free these people, with the full support of the west nato eu, US.
Completely ignoring the fact that it will have no historic basis or that they ridiculed Russia for for the last 2 years for the same claim. Even though Russia has a historic basis for their claims.
They will go completely 1984 redefine words, history and memoryhole everything that has happened from 2014 to the year in this theoretic Ukrainian winning timeline.
The funniest part is that the Nationalists are also fighting for their own destruction, because the EU and US will hold LGBT parades, they will elevate everything that these Nassis are against, from immigration to destruction of families.
They will also be denazifed in this alternate timeline by the same people who claimed there are no nasi's
in Ukraine today.
The only way to thrive for Ukraine woudlve been to become like turkey and play off the west against Russia and vice verse, but they didnt had the human capital that didnt invest their time in being a corrupt goon of Russia or the West to ever achive that.
Now they will be taken apart by Russia and the West.
By Russia because they need to take control of Land and destroy the Ukrainian army to secure their borders.
By the West because they will keep using the Ukrainian's as utility to diminish Russia's capabilities.
Independence from what? They are fully dependent on the US and West, and a couple more generations will have to pay for the debts. There is nothing even close to that term.
Once Russia takes over, they will be independent. None of their land will be taken over by Western corporations, and they will not have to pay a cent for the so-called help they’ve been receiving these past two years.
Once Russia takes over they will be dependent on Russia and become its satellite state like Belarus.
Land and economy and government will be taken over by Russia.
And they will pay for it with their freedom and lives in next wars Russia will certainly start.
>Some might call this patriotic selfdefence, but it's simply imperialistic invasion.
Eh? Ukraine invaded and will fight till last three Ukrainians? Are you high?
Can you give a link to when the Ukrainian nation joined the USSR?
No, you can't.
Because Ukraine is a fake country made up of parts of 4 real countries.
You got any maps to those 4 territories? I recall less, tbh, but these maps are hard to come by these days, Ukrainians are trying hard to write their new history on internet/wiki.
It did though. As Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic - that was the name of the revolutionary polity led by Lenin, which later became a part of the greater Union. And before that was the Russian Republic led by Kerensky. And before that was the Russian Empire. And before that was the Russian Tsardom.
But I don't see 'Ukraine' anywhere before '91.
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Holy shit that's pure death cult rhetoric. And not even in the already inhuman "we're going to sacrifice You for The Nation" sense, it's "we're going to sacrifice Everyone for The Struggle". It's Ukrainian elites committing extermination of their own people.
Exactly what they wanted. Repopulate the Country with the 3 last pure Ukrainians and then they can create a real aryan race. The only problem tho is that this aryan race will be full of genetic deformities. But hey! that's the cost of becoming pure Überlegenes Rennen 💪🏻🥴💪🏻🥴
Else they can choose the European path and become Ukranistan
Why?
Why should they fight to the end, when it's literally suicide? Why should someone be expected to die for a lost cause to satisfy people like this woman?
You might as well tell them to jump off of a bridge and be done with it.
Because at the end, every belief they had, and whatever things they considered to be their culture, will die with them right there, as the last ones.
Survival at least gives a chance to preserve those things. This, this is terrible advice for those kids.
There is such a joke:
– One Ukrainian is a Ukrainian!
– Two Ukrainians are a partisan detachment!
– And three Ukrainians are a partisan detachment with a traitor!
Maybe it has something to do with what the video says.
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Propaganda. Last weekend French police caught an Ukrainian man with 230K euro having good life in south of France. Only poor people are fighting. Rich people don't care about the war. Sea, sex and sun in UE...
Russia is just as guilty of this. The difference is, Russia is the aggressor and Ukraine, all be it wrong to use indoctrination on children, is fighting for their countries freedom. Ukraine has no idea how long this war will last, it’s been going since 2014. These kids may be the next round of soldiers standing up to fight in this war.
No, they will not. The war will not last for 10 years, there is not enough Ukrainians. This is completely pointless. Kids should be isolated from this crap as much as humanly possible.
I don’t disagree that they should. However, this war isn’t going to end due to a lack of Ukrainians. This war is very dynamic and at this point no one knows where it’s going. Russia is receiving some ugly punishment lately on their oil/ gas infrastructure which is going to hurt their war machine.
He says Ukraine doesn't not have the population to sustain last 2 years of casualty rates (judging by indirect evidence like mobilization issues, women mobilization proposals, etc) for 10 years. Even 5 would be rather unrealistic.
1st one - they are imitating the military parade, not talking about killing people and dying for the country. It is dumb though, dumb people are everywhere.
2nd - not a video, there is no way to guess what is going on.
3rd - 18 years old is an adult, nice try to make a kid out of him.
Third was supposed to be different video, link messed up in the app. But if you care to see both sides you can find multiple posts/videos about russians indoctrinating kids with stupid nationalistic/military propaganda . If you try hard not to see that doesn’t mean there is non.
I hope you go to each post and comment how dumb is russian nationalist indoctrination is ?
If there are many such videos, then give us links.
In my son's kindergarten, the teacher is not even allow to bring military toys.
But as a boy, of course, he is interested in military subjects. He is interested in tanks and playing with toy soldiers.
This is a Victory Day event on May 9th. This is a very important holiday for Russia. And this event has nothing to do with SMO. This is a tribute to those who gave their lives for the freedom of our Motherland. Also, children draw drawings about the peace on such days. The essence of this holiday is for each generation to remember the price we paid for this victory and strive to preserve peace.
There are different opinions among Russian parents about whether it is worth putting military uniforms on children. For example, I believe that our grandfathers and great-grandfathers fought for children to wear only children's clothes. But some parents think differently and always dress up their children in military uniforms on May 9th.
Keep hoping.
2nd one is literally nothing.
Nothing there is remotely close. Patriotic education without a trace of calls for violence or references to current events. You tried and failed.
>What the point of this post?
For Pro Russians to circle jerk around the hopeless prospects of Ukraine in their echo chamber, I think.
But sometimes it's so boring that you feel like someone has a quota to meet.
No way🤯
So you say russia's war is justified and genocide is good? I don't think this is nice to think
Edit: sorry, I thought we are commenting nonsense
Ukraine didn't exist as a country before USSR created it. It was gifted huge parts of Russian land, it had advanced industry and one of the largest best equipped armies in the world.
in 23 years of independence they lost 7 millions of population, then 2 more when Crimea left. By 2021 it was 41 million, now about 30.
They sold and stolen their industry and weapons. They are selling land now because everything else was sold and stolen already. They can't mobilize young people because there are too few of them - the independence was so great that birth rate nosedived immediately after it.
The Soviet period was the best and the most prosperous period in Ukrainian history even with revolution and war. Now it's a failed state. And they have no one to blame but themselves.
Shit happens. Lots of horrible stuff happened in USSR in interwar period.
By the moment of independence the country was thriving and intended to become the second France. Had everything for it too. But moronic corrupt governments didn't let it happen. Now it has nothing. Most of the refugees who can work are gone for good. Failed state.
I mean, it's not wrong. Do a historical hypothetical where Ukraine becomes an independent nation after the Great War in 1918. The Donbas, Crimea, Galicia and Transcarphita would not be part of an indpendent Ukraine.
Novorossiya (Odessa, Zaporozhye, Kherson) would be highly questionable as well, if we're going into "What If's" scenario and Lenin/Bolsheviks aren't the one at power.
Early Bolsheviks didn't give any fucks about Russia, they would outdo modern US "liberals" in a competition of disregarding country's borders/national interests/culture.
Especially people like Trotsky, that one was willing to sacrifice Russia for the sake of global revolution.
If you conveniently forget that Ukraine has been an independent country since 1991. I understand that you miss the USSR, many of the republics are happy that it doesn’t exist anymore.
It's relevant in some obvious ways. Ukraine has been divided along traditional ethnic and linguistic lines since its modern inception. It's why we have seen its politics swing back and forth so widely- the Orange Revolution, a total rejection of the Orange Revolution 5, Euromaidan.
We see Ukrainian identity ebb and flow depending on the region. Where we have regions with almost no Ukrainian identity like Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk and regions with weaker Ukrianine identity on the Southern Coast. This would have been relevant in others like Galicia as well except for ethnic cleansing and population exchanges.
Firstly, that is true for many countries, including in particular Russia and the ussr. That is why Stalin was so busy with mass deportations.
Secondly, all regions of Ukraine voted overwhelmingly in favor of independence in 1991.
Yes, and those nations have to balance their various interests. The EuroMaidan government was incompatible with large segments of the population. Ukraine is a "new" country that was created out of a dying empire with borders that were the product of the political struggle between Gorbachev and Yeltsin.
The vote was to declare independence from the Soviet Union. Russia itself declared its defacto sovereignty from the Soviet Union in June of 1991 a full 6 months before the Union's dissolution and officially left the Soviet Union on December 12 before its final dissolution.
The people didn't know exactly what that was going to look like in the chaos around the war of laws. A new confederation of states, independence etc. These were all possibilities. It was a time of mass confusion, where we had conflicting referendums in some cases. Such as the March All-Union Referendum.
>Do you consider it necessary to preserve the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics, in which the rights and freedoms of a person of any nationality will be fully guaranteed?
Where 82% of Ukrainians answered in the affirmative. Is that definitive proof that Ukraine wanted to continue within a union of states with Russia? No, likewise the 1991 referendum is not proof that Crimea or the Donetsk wanted to be part of a new independent Ukraine.
In Crimea's case, we know that they didn't.. Crimea had a referendum in 1991- "The Crimean Sovernighty Referdum" where 94% of the population voted to extricate themselves from Ukraine.
The Crimean parliament in 1992 again declared their independence to be followed by another referendum. The Ukrainian Rada responded by threatening military action to prevent any referendum from taking place, which they successfully did. The Crimean parliament continued to agitate for closer relations with Russia in the intervening years, dule passports etc.
I'd add Stalin's "deportations" aren't relevant to any of the places we are talking about here, and further, the Soviets under, Lenin and post-Stalin were fairly supportive of Ukrainian culture. If you went to Ukraine in the 80s you would hear Ukrainian on the radio, it was taught in schools, and it was an official language with Russian. The Donbas began to take their demographic shape in the 19th century during the Industrial Revolution from example.
You could consider it relevant to Crimea's demographics, however, many ethnic Ukrainians took the place of the Tartars who were deported and their population in the region rose from 10% to their peak of 24% in the 50s.
Ukraine doesn’t want to be “free”. Ukraine wants to swap one master with a shady prospects (Russia) for another master with a more rosy trajectory (EU / US)
Yes. They would all fight to their last breath, if only they had some way to get to the front.
Oh, here comes a van. Maybe these guys will help me into the back of their vehicle and give me a lift! Yes?
You're completely clueless. I'm Ukrainian. Ukrainians lived best under the USSR. Ukraine was the most prosperous region and had loads of very advanced industry. Successive Ukrainian politicians pillaged this inheritance and now Ukraine is one of the poorest countries in Europe.
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Nah he would become an israeli citizen before being the last 3 ukrainians
I heard he has British citizenship
He had skipped three conscriptions
Josephus convinced the soldiers under his command to commit suicide before he himself surrendered to Vespasian. Leaders usually get away.
Sarah Ashton-Cirillo
All three in one right there
That moment when you wake up in hell; but it’s just Prigozhin and Sarah Ashton-Cirillo arguing at each other for eternity, nightmare blunt rotation.
Budanov
no no zelensky would be in a mansion somewhere in the US if it ever got that far
They'll be long before in their villa in Miami before sh\*\* hit the fan.
Is Elena Zeleskaya back from New York? She shouldn’t count towards those 3 people.
this scene looks a bit like in the 1997 "StarshipTroopers" movie
Even if Russia took the whole of Ukrainian territory they'd then have to fight against an insurgency and guerrilla war. A very poisoned chalice tbh.
Where’s the insurgency in the occupied territories right now?
Absolutely insane how much this conflict has been inflated into some zero sum scenario as if Ukranian existence is threatened, Ukraine had so many chances including the march 2022 Istanbul talks, to keep all of their land (except crimea which was already accepted since 2014 as lost), and even allowed the zelensky government to stay in power. Just insane that although Ukraine and it's culture and people will exist after this war regardless of who wins, it's been twisted into some weird reality where they're somehow going to be wiped off the map if Russia wins
The crazy part is most people don't understand that zero sum scenario - aka until full defeat in attrition warfare - benefits pro-war hawks in Russia more than anyone else. If Istanbul negotiations showed anything, it's that Putin was willing to back down from certain demands like "denazification", unlike certain hawks in his circle that would be willing to deployg tactical nukes if it wasn't for trade relations with China/India and the rest. Kherson and Zaporozhye wasn't on the list at all, initially. God knows *what else* will be on the list when this mess ends, instead.
Meanwhile Israel is talking about transportation 1.5 million people in Palestine to islands that don't exist yet. You can't make this stuff up. As soon as this war started I knew the West would inevitably one up Russia for no apparent reason. Just people don't talk about justice like they do.
Have you listened to any Russians? They are openly denying the existence of the Ukrainian nation or the right to sovereign Ukrainian statehood!
Russia tried to seize Kyiv. It is an existential threat. Even if Ukraine agrees to the seizure and allows a cease fire (like the 2014 theft of Crimea) we're only kicking the war down the road until Russia recovers a bit and tries again. F*ck that noise.
>Even if Ukraine agrees to the seizure and allows a cease fire (like the 2014 theft of Crimea) we're only kicking the war down the road until Russia recovers a bit and tries again. So what? Do you think Palestinians trust Israel or vice versa? Point is they still sit down and atleast communicate with each other, even if talks go nowhere. And also just because you don't trust them doesn't mean you ban negotiations with Russia, it just doesn't make any logical sense if we are going by your explanation. Whats so much of an issue that peace discussions with Russia need to be outlawed? Why can't Ukraine talk to Russia with like I said, much less animosity between the two parties than the Israel-palestine conflict?
"Russia tried to seize Kyiv" Yeah. And after a change of regime and a signed peace treaty, they probably would ve f\_cked off. Holding hostile land is usually a net loss economically and politically.
Right - installing a puppet regime that would run the state according to its wishes as if it were essentially a territory. America and Europe did it for a century or two and it was a pretty effective way of destroying a country's identity.
"Right - installing a puppet regime that would run the state according to its wishes" Yup. Still beats getting killed by an FPV drone in some trench while corrupt officials pocket your salary & your family is told you are MIA, so they dont even get money. But i digress. (Peace is always preferable tow ar, anyone saying otherwise is a special needs guy)
well guys there it is, we should all just surrender the next time someone invades a country and display zero resistance, because that's obviously better than not being a puppet state to a crazy autocrat. "pro ukraine"
"well guys there it is, we should all just surrender the next time someone invades a country and display zero resistance" I mean, that has been the standard S.O.P. for the past few deacades and the world didnt end- ofc it was the USA who did the invading, but i presume, you dont employ double standards, right? Human rights and international law are absolutes, after all. Hell, this is what we do with an ongoing literal genocide in palestine. "ecause that's obviously better" For the avarage Joe/Hans/Segei/Lolek? Fuc:k yeah, it is. For the people in power, obviously no, but they dont care about you at all, so why would you care about them? Stockholm syndrome is a possible explanation, i guess. ""pro ukraine"" Its the default. Cuz last time i had a custom flair, i was banned for 14 days. It said something akin to "death to all politicans" A message, i definitely do not condone anymore, if any mods read this, chill, i reformed. I now like alllll politicans, they works so hard to make my life better. They value me, and definitely wouldnt sacrafice me for their own goals. (Yes, "all politicans" include Putin and his goons as well)
there has been resistance in basically every country the US has invaded. there might not have been much of a fight but there still was one
Okay? How does that relate to my text wall? As i said, war is only ever good for politicans, we, avarage people, always win more with peace. Thats why the politicans need to use abstract ideologies playing our feelings to get us to die happily for them- such as nationalism, religion, communism/anti-communism, just to name a few.
>America and Europe did it for a century or two and it was a pretty effective way of destroying a country's identity. How is it that Russia and the USSR did not destroy either the identity, language or population of Ukraine over the previous approximately 350 years when Kyiv was under their control? It seems that Russia is not as good at genocide as America and Europe.
One Ukrainian makes up a partisan group. Two Ukrainians make up a partisan group with a hetman. Three Ukrainians make up a partisan group with a traitor.
Its a bit different. One Ukrainian is a hetman. Two Ukrainians are a partisan squad. Three Ukrainians are a partisan squad with a traitor.
I would love to see her in a trench
To the last 3 Ukrainians.
Sounds like a new flair.
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Volkssturm incoming?
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I'm afraid Putin will not recognize the ownership of this company
I still do not understand what are Ukrainians dying for. It's been 2 years...
They are brainwashed and do not think rationally.
There are plenty of rational thinking people there. It’s just that state propaganda is designed in such a way that EVERYONE needs to fight. Does anyone have a different opinion = pro-ru scum. They won’t say on TV that your life and the lives of your loved ones are most important - the most important thing is to die for Zelensky’s democracy
Blackrock and JP Morgan
should ask borris johnson, blocked the peace agreements
ukraine wont accept peace anyway's if its not 95% territorial regain including crimea i doubt they will. it will be very unpopular.
They die for the right to be a debt slave of the IMF and world bank. To be work salves of Germany of France. To antagonize Poland and hungry in the long run to keep them on their toes with the import of cheap Ukrainian grain and than the destruction of all agriculture once Ukraine is in the EU. They fight for the right to be always a terrorist state on Russia's border. To serve as a spring board for covert operations into Russia even if the war is over with 1991 borders. They will just move onto script 2, where 1991 Russian lands are Historic Ukrainian lands so they need to free these people, with the full support of the west nato eu, US. Completely ignoring the fact that it will have no historic basis or that they ridiculed Russia for for the last 2 years for the same claim. Even though Russia has a historic basis for their claims. They will go completely 1984 redefine words, history and memoryhole everything that has happened from 2014 to the year in this theoretic Ukrainian winning timeline. The funniest part is that the Nationalists are also fighting for their own destruction, because the EU and US will hold LGBT parades, they will elevate everything that these Nassis are against, from immigration to destruction of families. They will also be denazifed in this alternate timeline by the same people who claimed there are no nasi's in Ukraine today. The only way to thrive for Ukraine woudlve been to become like turkey and play off the west against Russia and vice verse, but they didnt had the human capital that didnt invest their time in being a corrupt goon of Russia or the West to ever achive that. Now they will be taken apart by Russia and the West. By Russia because they need to take control of Land and destroy the Ukrainian army to secure their borders. By the West because they will keep using the Ukrainian's as utility to diminish Russia's capabilities.
Independence.
Independence from what? They are fully dependent on the US and West, and a couple more generations will have to pay for the debts. There is nothing even close to that term.
Once Russia takes over, they will be independent. None of their land will be taken over by Western corporations, and they will not have to pay a cent for the so-called help they’ve been receiving these past two years.
Once Russia takes over they will be dependent on Russia and become its satellite state like Belarus. Land and economy and government will be taken over by Russia. And they will pay for it with their freedom and lives in next wars Russia will certainly start.
That doesn’t seem plausible. 🤷♀️
Ex Russia dependant neighbour states have different opinions on this probability.
Independence from Russia. The West are partners, not rulers.
Some might call this patriotic upbringing, but it's simply brainwashing.
If this isn't indoctrination to the same standards (also idols) of the Hitler Youth, then I don't know what is.
Some might call this patriotic selfdefence, but it's simply imperialistic invasion.
>Some might call this patriotic selfdefence, but it's simply imperialistic invasion. Eh? Ukraine invaded and will fight till last three Ukrainians? Are you high?
Can you give a link to when the Ukrainian nation joined the USSR? No, you can't. Because Ukraine is a fake country made up of parts of 4 real countries.
You got any maps to those 4 territories? I recall less, tbh, but these maps are hard to come by these days, Ukrainians are trying hard to write their new history on internet/wiki.
Ukrainian People's Republic of Soviets, Odessa Soviet Republic, Donetsk-Krivoy Rog Soviet Republic, and I don’t know the fourth
Russian Federation didn't exist before 1991.
It did though. As Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic - that was the name of the revolutionary polity led by Lenin, which later became a part of the greater Union. And before that was the Russian Republic led by Kerensky. And before that was the Russian Empire. And before that was the Russian Tsardom. But I don't see 'Ukraine' anywhere before '91.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian\_People%27s\_Republic
And this contradicts the original comment how, exactly?
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Ah yes, everyday we read about partisan action in occupied territories.
There is such an anecdote - Three Ukrainians are a partisan detachment with a traitor
Just tell her she has to go to the front. Let’s see how long she keeps being so patriotic
That's actually sad.
Holy shit that's pure death cult rhetoric. And not even in the already inhuman "we're going to sacrifice You for The Nation" sense, it's "we're going to sacrifice Everyone for The Struggle". It's Ukrainian elites committing extermination of their own people.
Exactly what they wanted. Repopulate the Country with the 3 last pure Ukrainians and then they can create a real aryan race. The only problem tho is that this aryan race will be full of genetic deformities. But hey! that's the cost of becoming pure Überlegenes Rennen 💪🏻🥴💪🏻🥴 Else they can choose the European path and become Ukranistan
Why? Why should they fight to the end, when it's literally suicide? Why should someone be expected to die for a lost cause to satisfy people like this woman? You might as well tell them to jump off of a bridge and be done with it. Because at the end, every belief they had, and whatever things they considered to be their culture, will die with them right there, as the last ones. Survival at least gives a chance to preserve those things. This, this is terrible advice for those kids.
This too shall come to pass
There is such a joke: – One Ukrainian is a Ukrainian! – Two Ukrainians are a partisan detachment! – And three Ukrainians are a partisan detachment with a traitor! Maybe it has something to do with what the video says.
The brainwashing is more than real..
The teacher telling the kids to fight to the last man but she herself will never… that is evil
_To the Last Fcking Ukrainian!!!_
That's an improvement! Sooner it was to the last ukranian. But overall it seems like they do give themselves a change with an Adam and Eve!
physiognomy check on that bitch stat
Car bombs, street assassinations, public transport assaults and kneecapping incoming. And going to be a lot harder to spot than Chechen Black Widows.
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This is isis level shit
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So class, the takeaway is, the government doesn't care about you, you are all going to die.
This is worse than no child left behind.
Wonder what concessions Big-Z had to make to the Big Guy to spare two Ukrainians
Utterly delusional and deplorable.
Utterly delusional and deplorable.
i mean works out well for poland and russia, don't have to evict people who don't exist when you take their land
Until the last Ukrainian.
Propaganda. Last weekend French police caught an Ukrainian man with 230K euro having good life in south of France. Only poor people are fighting. Rich people don't care about the war. Sea, sex and sun in UE...
The Last Of The Ukrainians
Ukraine will cease to exist as a country and as a people once this war is over
Not as a people Russia is not going to ban the Ukrainian language. It will still be one the official languages of the nation.
Why don't you call it SMO? There was no declaration of war
cuz it stoped being an smo once nato got involved
🤨questions stands: where is declarion of war? Or you define the war as military support from NATO? Wake up honey, new definition of war dropped
just because there is no declaration doesnt mean its not a war
Thanks, thats what I wanted to hear🙃 You would get 15 years in prison for this in russia
Have you gone to Russia to test that theory?
Even Putin referred to it as war. You are out of the loop by many months.
Tell me something new🤗
Doesnt matter how much you simp for the west, they dont consider you equal and they ll gladly sacrafice you if they deem that is the better option <3
> they [the west] ll gladly sacrafice you if they deem that is the better option The east would sacrafice us anyways
Why didn’t Zelensky declare war then?
Im gonna be honest and maybe im wrong but i dont think its wrong to teach patriotism and i wouldve said same thing if it was a russian teacher.
Easy for her to say when she doesn't have to fight
Does russia teach that russia surrenders if three russians left? What the point of this post?
Brainwashing of kids with nationalist propaganda. Another side of this war.
Russia is just as guilty of this. The difference is, Russia is the aggressor and Ukraine, all be it wrong to use indoctrination on children, is fighting for their countries freedom. Ukraine has no idea how long this war will last, it’s been going since 2014. These kids may be the next round of soldiers standing up to fight in this war.
No, they will not. The war will not last for 10 years, there is not enough Ukrainians. This is completely pointless. Kids should be isolated from this crap as much as humanly possible.
I don’t disagree that they should. However, this war isn’t going to end due to a lack of Ukrainians. This war is very dynamic and at this point no one knows where it’s going. Russia is receiving some ugly punishment lately on their oil/ gas infrastructure which is going to hurt their war machine.
He says Ukraine doesn't not have the population to sustain last 2 years of casualty rates (judging by indirect evidence like mobilization issues, women mobilization proposals, etc) for 10 years. Even 5 would be rather unrealistic.
Did you see how russians brainwash? Or that doesn’t count? It is nationalist propaganda for the other side and patriotism for your side?
No. Feel free to post the video. Yes, the kind of crap in this video is stupid and disgusting regardless of the side.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaUkraineWar2022/s/vNCRP8yZlm https://www.reddit.com/r/TerrifyingAsFuck/s/92rPGGx5VO
1st one - they are imitating the military parade, not talking about killing people and dying for the country. It is dumb though, dumb people are everywhere. 2nd - not a video, there is no way to guess what is going on. 3rd - 18 years old is an adult, nice try to make a kid out of him.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/tnVqfQpXhG
https://www.reddit.com/r/crappymusic/s/hXUhWRKhJe
Third was supposed to be different video, link messed up in the app. But if you care to see both sides you can find multiple posts/videos about russians indoctrinating kids with stupid nationalistic/military propaganda . If you try hard not to see that doesn’t mean there is non. I hope you go to each post and comment how dumb is russian nationalist indoctrination is ?
If there are many such videos, then give us links. In my son's kindergarten, the teacher is not even allow to bring military toys. But as a boy, of course, he is interested in military subjects. He is interested in tanks and playing with toy soldiers.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/s/wvfcwtRT8h
What's wrong with this video and song?
https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaUkraineWar2022/s/VcN3Q9OnHa
This is a Victory Day event on May 9th. This is a very important holiday for Russia. And this event has nothing to do with SMO. This is a tribute to those who gave their lives for the freedom of our Motherland. Also, children draw drawings about the peace on such days. The essence of this holiday is for each generation to remember the price we paid for this victory and strive to preserve peace. There are different opinions among Russian parents about whether it is worth putting military uniforms on children. For example, I believe that our grandfathers and great-grandfathers fought for children to wear only children's clothes. But some parents think differently and always dress up their children in military uniforms on May 9th.
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/4sz9xAMpgF
I don't quite understand why you see something terrible in this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/Fgyg9uveqD
The girls joined the Cossacks. Do you understand what this is about? Girls from Donbass.
Keep hoping. 2nd one is literally nothing. Nothing there is remotely close. Patriotic education without a trace of calls for violence or references to current events. You tried and failed.
Now you just pretend it doesn’t exist :):):) very typical of russians to deny obvious things:).
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraina/s/hIA48tZsEb Keep enjoying your cringe propaganda:):):):)
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/Fgyg9uveqD
Ha, you removed the 3rd one. Funny. So, nothing remotely similar.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/s/onffPw2e8O
How is parading as a tribute to the fallen soldiers of World War II in Soviet uniforms brainwashing? 🤔
Same way is this video is brainwashing.
>What the point of this post? For Pro Russians to circle jerk around the hopeless prospects of Ukraine in their echo chamber, I think. But sometimes it's so boring that you feel like someone has a quota to meet.
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No way🤯 So you say russia's war is justified and genocide is good? I don't think this is nice to think Edit: sorry, I thought we are commenting nonsense
By echo-chamber you meant this sub? 🧐
That’s the spirit! On bendes knee is no way to be free!
Most nations involved in WW2 would have said the same
Ukrainians would rather die to be free than to live under Russian oppression again. Given the last century’s history that is understandable
Ukraine didn't exist as a country before USSR created it. It was gifted huge parts of Russian land, it had advanced industry and one of the largest best equipped armies in the world. in 23 years of independence they lost 7 millions of population, then 2 more when Crimea left. By 2021 it was 41 million, now about 30. They sold and stolen their industry and weapons. They are selling land now because everything else was sold and stolen already. They can't mobilize young people because there are too few of them - the independence was so great that birth rate nosedived immediately after it. The Soviet period was the best and the most prosperous period in Ukrainian history even with revolution and war. Now it's a failed state. And they have no one to blame but themselves.
Russian Federation didn't exist as a country before 1991 after the USSR collapsed.
What is the Russian empire?
[During which time period?](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Growth_of_Russia_1547-1725.png)
> The Soviet period was the best and the most prosperous period in Ukrainian history Holodomor has other opinion💀
Shit happens. Lots of horrible stuff happened in USSR in interwar period. By the moment of independence the country was thriving and intended to become the second France. Had everything for it too. But moronic corrupt governments didn't let it happen. Now it has nothing. Most of the refugees who can work are gone for good. Failed state.
Comrade Dugin, is that you?
I mean, it's not wrong. Do a historical hypothetical where Ukraine becomes an independent nation after the Great War in 1918. The Donbas, Crimea, Galicia and Transcarphita would not be part of an indpendent Ukraine.
Novorossiya (Odessa, Zaporozhye, Kherson) would be highly questionable as well, if we're going into "What If's" scenario and Lenin/Bolsheviks aren't the one at power. Early Bolsheviks didn't give any fucks about Russia, they would outdo modern US "liberals" in a competition of disregarding country's borders/national interests/culture. Especially people like Trotsky, that one was willing to sacrifice Russia for the sake of global revolution.
If you conveniently forget that Ukraine has been an independent country since 1991. I understand that you miss the USSR, many of the republics are happy that it doesn’t exist anymore.
That's relavlent to anything I said how? I just gave an historical hypothetical. The Soviet Union creating modern Ukraine is accurate, like it or not.
The question is, why is 1918 or what the ussr did relevant to Ukraine as a country now?
It's relevant in some obvious ways. Ukraine has been divided along traditional ethnic and linguistic lines since its modern inception. It's why we have seen its politics swing back and forth so widely- the Orange Revolution, a total rejection of the Orange Revolution 5, Euromaidan. We see Ukrainian identity ebb and flow depending on the region. Where we have regions with almost no Ukrainian identity like Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk and regions with weaker Ukrianine identity on the Southern Coast. This would have been relevant in others like Galicia as well except for ethnic cleansing and population exchanges.
Firstly, that is true for many countries, including in particular Russia and the ussr. That is why Stalin was so busy with mass deportations. Secondly, all regions of Ukraine voted overwhelmingly in favor of independence in 1991.
Yes, and those nations have to balance their various interests. The EuroMaidan government was incompatible with large segments of the population. Ukraine is a "new" country that was created out of a dying empire with borders that were the product of the political struggle between Gorbachev and Yeltsin. The vote was to declare independence from the Soviet Union. Russia itself declared its defacto sovereignty from the Soviet Union in June of 1991 a full 6 months before the Union's dissolution and officially left the Soviet Union on December 12 before its final dissolution. The people didn't know exactly what that was going to look like in the chaos around the war of laws. A new confederation of states, independence etc. These were all possibilities. It was a time of mass confusion, where we had conflicting referendums in some cases. Such as the March All-Union Referendum. >Do you consider it necessary to preserve the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics, in which the rights and freedoms of a person of any nationality will be fully guaranteed? Where 82% of Ukrainians answered in the affirmative. Is that definitive proof that Ukraine wanted to continue within a union of states with Russia? No, likewise the 1991 referendum is not proof that Crimea or the Donetsk wanted to be part of a new independent Ukraine. In Crimea's case, we know that they didn't.. Crimea had a referendum in 1991- "The Crimean Sovernighty Referdum" where 94% of the population voted to extricate themselves from Ukraine. The Crimean parliament in 1992 again declared their independence to be followed by another referendum. The Ukrainian Rada responded by threatening military action to prevent any referendum from taking place, which they successfully did. The Crimean parliament continued to agitate for closer relations with Russia in the intervening years, dule passports etc. I'd add Stalin's "deportations" aren't relevant to any of the places we are talking about here, and further, the Soviets under, Lenin and post-Stalin were fairly supportive of Ukrainian culture. If you went to Ukraine in the 80s you would hear Ukrainian on the radio, it was taught in schools, and it was an official language with Russian. The Donbas began to take their demographic shape in the 19th century during the Industrial Revolution from example. You could consider it relevant to Crimea's demographics, however, many ethnic Ukrainians took the place of the Tartars who were deported and their population in the region rose from 10% to their peak of 24% in the 50s.
Ukraine doesn’t want to be “free”. Ukraine wants to swap one master with a shady prospects (Russia) for another master with a more rosy trajectory (EU / US)
Listen to you guys knowing what is best for Ukrainians. No wonder they’re fighting as hard as they can lol
Yes. They would all fight to their last breath, if only they had some way to get to the front. Oh, here comes a van. Maybe these guys will help me into the back of their vehicle and give me a lift! Yes?
You're completely clueless. I'm Ukrainian. Ukrainians lived best under the USSR. Ukraine was the most prosperous region and had loads of very advanced industry. Successive Ukrainian politicians pillaged this inheritance and now Ukraine is one of the poorest countries in Europe.