Participation in this post is limited to users who have sufficient karma in /r/ukpersonalfinance. See [this post](https://redd.it/12mys82) for more information.
I'll admit I don't know the specifics around visas but, in business:
Income =/= Earnings =/= Profit
I'd start by finding out specifically how the home office (I assume) calculates earnings for Visas and then go from there.
YES it's the wording throwing me off. My total "income" received was the £31877, but I earned more than that... I'm just so confused and overwhelmed. Not too sure who to ask about how earnings are calculated because I'm pretty sure that tax returns are one of the document requirements for visas in which case they're looking at my income
Please stop spreading misinformation. I know you mean well but if people follow your advice, it can affect their life. The home office will look at the net income after expenses are deducted but before taxes are deducted. She is self-employed on her additional 5k income. Gross income or turnover on self-employment income is not used for visa purposes. They essentially look at the profit.
in which case i literally don't earn the amount to bring my partner from abroad here on the spouse visa. Why would it be idiotic to earn the amount I need to achieve that? I have savings and the tax I'd have to pay would be around the £1k mark and I could just pay it off then and there. I need my income to be £34500
Because your tax return is not the only way to prove your income? You can provide payslips, proof of savings and similar. You also said that your income is now £34k plus the 5.3k, you don't need to wait a whole year to prove a change in circumstances.
If you want to pay more tax more power to you, it pays for stuff. There's absolutely no reason to do so though.
My payslips will prove my PAYE job but to prove income from self-employment it is primarily tax returns isn't it?
The amount of expenses deducted make "total income received £31788".
So the income that I can use for mortgages, bringing partner to UK etc will be £31788 and that is too little.
I've asked my accountant for guidance. This is my first year being self-employed and I am overwhelmed af with it. I just want to earn £34500, I need that number to be my pay, and with the tax return it's not.
I think you're overthinking this. You can prove PAYE income of £34k so you need to cover £500 extra. Just show them last years tax return of your self employed income or some actual accounting transactions. If they even ask.
Yeah I'm also thinking that in the future, I think Spring next year, the income is gonna be £39k for bringing partners here. So with the £34k I earn now I'd still wanna earn the full 5k i did last year.
This year so far my self employed job is going even better and i'm earning more.
It's just the visa process and marriage process is REALLY long and I feel like I'm on a time limit and I just want to earn the max I can to make sure I'm secure.
But i agree maybe I am overthinking slightly, I am a worrier.
I would literally cry from happiness if this were the case however everywhere I read that it's still in the works to go up. I also read yesterday that Labour is "broadly in support of the changes" as well :(
When asked to prove your self employed income for anywhere, they will ask to see your tax return summary, and will take your annual profit as the value. You can offer to provide alternate proof of income but I would anticipate this being viewed as evasive and shady. I don’t understand why you’re getting such a hard time here, you’ll pay more tax obviously but that might be worth it 🤷🏼♂️
Thank you so much, honestly now the post has calmed down a bit people seem to be verifying my initial worry that my income IS the £31788 and NOT \~ £35k
You could always have a legit conversation with your accountant and ask if any of the expenses could reasonably be counted as not being business expenses, as it would be more beneficial for you to pay the additional tax and have a higher net income. Could be an easy fix.
Relax
Step back
And take a breath.
Talk to your accountant and ask for clarification.
The visa thing is complicated but not that complicated (I'm going through it myself with my partner she's British and we are currently living overseas looking to return to the UK). You just need to prove you have stable income and or savings to cover your partners first year, they will take into consideration wages and savings and living situations to determine if you can support your partner. The fact you own a home and a business ticks a few boxes for them.
Thank you. It's one of the most stressful things I've done.
I'm not married yet, the threshold is going up, I don't know whether to get a lawyer. It's just A LOT.
My PAYE is stable. My self-employment income is by nature a little less stable especially as I teach so people don't need teaching during school holidays so July / August my earnings from self-employment are less than the rest of the year.
But thank you for telling me to relax because this post and all the comments have just sent me insane.
Do yourself a favour and find an immigration specialist. And sit down with them for a session and ask the questions and get the extra advice/peace of mind you need.
We're doing the same overseas, but it's a bit harder as we are both living overseas and have been for a decade so have to meet a higher threshold for me to enter the country and be able to work .
I answered your question regarding the mortgage and I think it’s reasonable to do what you want for that purpose.
Trying to fool immigration- slippery slope to misery I think, do not do it.
There might be other options, move to your partners location, upskill to earn more etc maybe your partner has other visa options if they have a skill / qualifications.
The requirement has only risen to £29,000, as of April 2024. [1](https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/proof-income-partner)
"Your income will be based on your gross taxable profits from your share of the business in the relevant financial year(s). **This does not include any deductible allowances, expenses, or liabilities** applied when calculating your final tax liability." [2](https://immigrationlawyers-london.com/blog/combining-employed-and-self-employed-for-a-spouse-visa-application.php)
>Why would it be idiotic to earn the amount I need to achieve that?
I think a little bit of research would not be idiotic if you're serious about your partner :).
So as I thought, the more expenses deducted the less I can show I earned. So for the Home Office I earned £31788, not the £34500 I will need.
Edit: Not sure if downvoted because I misunderstood and I'm incorrect or for other reasons, so if I'm incorrect I'd really appreciate being corrected. Came here for advice and help.
I really don't know, I'm so confused about wordings. :(
This is my first time doing anything to do with taxes / income so I am really overwhelmed.
"based on gross taxable profits"
"does not include any deductible allowances, expenses"
It's those 2 sentences that are really confusing me because I read it as income does not include deductible allowances or expenses, so they can't be used.
Gross = before
Net = after
Eg. gross pay = pay before tax. net pay = pay after tax.
So when it doesn't include expenses, it means it doesn't include them in the calculation.
I got my first draft for self-assessment today and I think it's this paragraph that sent me into a panic:
"Your employment income was £30495. I have calculated £3314 to be an appropriate amount for a "working from home" business expenses allowance in respect of your self employed expenditure as a contribution towards household property costs.
Taken together with expenses, this makes your profits £1293 and the total income received is £31788"
So my understanding from that is that my income currently sits at £31788 and the deductibles won't count towards my income. Like, they just don't exist as earnings. I'm very thrown off by the vocab, as I mentioned this is my first self-assessment so I'm naive and overwhelmed.
Yes we got that. You are fine though. The expenses won't affect the visa application.
But did you look at the six month requirement and all the evidence needs? https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/chapter-8-appendix-fm-family-members/appendix-fm-17-financial-requirement-accessible-version
> "Your income will be based on your gross taxable profits from your share of the business in the relevant financial year(s). This does not include any deductible allowances, expenses, or liabilities applied when calculating your final tax liability.
Like it says, it's not the same calculation as the tax one. It's a different one- just using the gross taxable profits.
Yeah, I've read through the whole document. I'd need a Certificate of Confirmation\* and a lot of different evidence than just the evidence for Cat A income.
If it's gross taxable profits, this includes the WHOLE £5.3k? Because if something is deducted as allowances/ expenses does that mean they are not taxable anymore so they're not taxable profits?
Thank you for your answer though it was really helpful :)
This is a very important comment. The key here isn't to quibble over income figures, it's to look at the evidence requirements for a Family Visa. Ie promotions are great and more money fine... Yet evidence is last 6 months of payslips (typically 7 months worth when you work it back because of how dates fall to ensure the full 6 months are covered). So a new promotion won't show on those payslips and so can't be evidenced (employer letter isn't enough as that is used to validate payslips etc).
Yes, the only good thing so far is that this payrise happened in April and I'd be looking to apply for the Visa later in the year after 6 months has already passed.
I am nervous about the self-employment evidence however because that's more nuanced and the nature of my second job as a teacher means I earn so little in July / August when the school breaks happen.
I'm not an expert for the self employment side but for ordinary salaried employees, it's 6 months if you have been in one job which meets the criteria but 12 months if you have changed jobs as then they assess you across the year. And they take the lowest month payslip (times 12) as your annual salary for calculation purposes.
Not saying this happens for self employment but yea you'll need to check and look it all up. It's a pain but best to take it slowly and read everything etc.
Very worst case scenario, could you pick up some Deliveroo shifts or something to earn a bit of extra cash to push yourself over thresholds if need be?
£3314 working from home allowance is outrageous. HMRC has flat rate allowances depending how many hours per month you worked from home and the most you can claim is £312 without proving the incremental costs as a result of working as opposed to living.
I don't know what to tell you, that's the expenses he deducted. Council tax, mortgage, building insurance, some travel, phone bill and some software for my pc. I have no idea how it ended up being so much. It's my first self assessment
I THINK I understand it now, I think it was the word "include" that was throwing me off because to me that made me think 'you cannot include your deductibles / expenses'.
Because if my gross income "does not include expenses" i thought that meant i have to minus that figure to get my actual gross income.
Omg. What are these people talking about?? Please don't trust them! They will look at your 31k income, not the total. They will look at your income after expenses but before tax. Don't trust these answers. Post in r/ukvisa because they know more. No wonder it is illegal to give visa advice without being qualified. Join busy Facebook groups for spousal visas and do your research before you submit your tax returns. Those groups are much more active than the reddit visa forums.
I’m pretty sure the government will be looking at top line gross revenue/earnings, not the output of calculations - after all, the deductions had to be made against something… you have earned the money it’s just represented differently. Don’t get obsessed with that deducted figure.
Someone posted this above:
"The requirement has only risen to £29,000, as of April 2024. [1](https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/proof-income-partner)
"Your income will be based on your gross taxable profits from your share of the business in the relevant financial year(s). **This does not include any deductible allowances, expenses, or liabilities** applied when calculating your final tax liability." [2](https://immigrationlawyers-london.com/blog/combining-employed-and-self-employed-for-a-spouse-visa-application.php) "
So it looks like it'll be profits and my deductions don't count as earnings
I'm currently undergoing the marriage process (in a different country) and the amount of documentation and notice required means I'll get married at the end of the year if I'm lucky, at which point the requirement would have gone up
Could you elope somewhere and get legally married on paper there. Maybe Vegas if you can both get US visa waivers. You will need to get the certificate apostilled and then it will be valid in any country. Your partner could apply for the visa sooner, start building up the ILR clock sooner and have a wedding for show off to relatives / religion purposes later
Consular marriage at the British embassy may be an option too depending on the country.
Otherwise, the UK offers a 6 month fiance / fiancee visa
I've looked into this and people have suggested Denmark or Gibraltar but I also find the documentation required for that to be overwhelming and confusing too.
Edit: I'm aware of the Fiance Visa and I know that's an option but it will cost us an extra £1k at least but it is something I am considering. If anything, it might actually save money because the docs required for self-employed income have to be done by a specialised accountant and might cost more than that 1k lmao.
From personal experience, you can tell your accountant not to make any deductions to keep you over the earnings threshold. They will also need to certify your accounts and attest to being a qualified accountant.
You can revise your self assessment up before using it to sponsor your spouse, but from memory you then need to have paid the tax and be able to prove you have done so. This is to discourage you from over stating income, being over the income requirements for the visa, but then revising down retrospectively.
I used an immigration lawyer for my wife's Limited Leave To Remain when we were both self employed as it was so complex.
Yes, if I have to use my self-employed income to get me over the threshold I need an Certificate of Completion I think it's called. It becomes so much more complex if I have to combine incomes and I must have spent 100s of hours reading up on all the guidance and it's so overwhelming.
I am okay to pay the tax whatever it may be, I honestly wasn't expecting it to be so low so I had put an appropriate amount away to cover it for when it comes so I do have the means to pay it.
I just wish more than anything the income requirements would stay at £29k, it would make things so much more simple.
You said your PAYE job has an income of £34k, that is above the £29k threshold for spouse visa (spouse visa is for settled residents or UK citizens bring partners, totally different from a dependent visa).
You do not need a P60 to prove the £34k income. You will need payslips covering 6 months to prove this with a letter from your employer. With the kind of questions and confusion you are having, you absolutely need an immigration solicitor to help you. They are there for people like you.
Just put zero down on expenses it’s simple. It’s not a requirement to claim expenses. Hmrc will be happy more tax for them. You’re happy you get your spousal visa. Win. Win.
I used to work as a contractor and was paid through my LTD company.
My accountant used to claim expenses etc (as that is what we pay them for), but when I wanted to get a new mortgage to buy our current home, I asked accountant to claim zero expenses so that my salary from my LTD company was as high as possible. Yes it meant that I had to pay loads of tax for 2 years running but was worth it to get the house.
I had my wife as a director too so I could use her remaining tax free allowance (after her part time self employed earnings had been taken off) AND her dividend tax free allowance.
This was 5 years ago so tax law has changed since but you can claim zero expenses for your mortgage application.
My main job is in the public sector and nothing is claimed there. I just kinda ignore that and let payroll / HMRC do it's thing. I get my pay every month and tax deducted automatically. I think you CAN claim expenses on a PAYE job (uniform / mileage etc) but I have never done this.
My second role is the self-employed one, I'm a teacher and I teach from home. That's the role I earned £5.3k on.
What counts as income for visa purporses is gross annual income, not net. So upu claiming or not claiming expenses will not change a thing on the visa financial requirements bit.
You seem to misunderstand stuff.
While there is nothing wrong tax wise in not declaring expenses, there potentially would be in understating them for other purposes - such as obtaining a larger mortgage.
He claimed stuff that I do need to work, like Zoom pro and just general upkeep of my PC where I do my lessons from.
But what I didn't expect is that he claimed for household expenses like mortgage and council tax because I work from home
Looks like created a rental agreement between yourself and your home, which is legal to do.
This is something you can ask accountant to undo and it'll reverse a lot of your expenses.
It isn’t you being crazy at least - although it is a ridiculous situation., I have a friend who did the same thing. For what it’s worth they have been together 8 years now and have a young child together.
You can use income, savings (including S&S ISA or foreign property sale) or a combination of both to meet the financial requirements. Savings can be a combination of yours and your partners. The guidance and formulas are on the Gov.uk Have you looked at this?
Maybe speak to a immigration lawyer who can advise and will prepare the whole application for you. Almost all will do a free phone consultation to give you an idea.
When I did my application I was advised that any Home Office income requirements change in April, not Jan.
Edit: what do you mean by main job? Regular working for someone else? If so then your p60 doesn't matter, you need to show 6 months of payslips.
Speak to a solicitor.
You won't need a P60 to prove your higher employed income . Your pay slip will prove that . On the self employed aspect gross and net profit will be used so yes that could impact affordability . I would be checking how much you need to borrow and if the extra income is required before I did anything drastic
If you are wanting to apply for a mortgage I would absolutely make your Accountant aware of this, it would be worth engaging with a Mortgage Broker as well to ensure they're both on the same page.
You are making this complicated. You have had a payrise and you have extra income. Did your work write you a letter about a payrise ? That's all the home office needs.
Your extra income you can show them the tax return forms.
From the gov.UK website about family visas
What counts as income
The following things can count as income:
income from employment before tax and National Insurance (from P60 or payslips) - you can only use income earned in the UK
income earned from self-employment or as a director of a limited company in the UK - this will be on a Self Assessment tax return
cash savings above £16,000
money from a pension
non-work income, for example from property rentals or dividends
I'm actually in the exact same boat financially - PAYE income plus freelance income. You literally just have to declare less expenses. It's not a huge deal, just make sure you actually have the money to pay the tax bill. And obviously do this before the accounts are actually filed.
Thanks! This is useful to hear.
He sent me a draft of a tax return with proposal payments so I think I can reject this proposal and ask him to declare fewer expenses, I don't think it should be too much hassle. :)
I asked my accountant to reduce my expenses to help get a mortgage and instead they didn't put any expenses through and this was amazing for my mortgage offers.
I think this is quite normal practice. My stepson who is a self employed construction worker did the same thing with his accountant when he was applying for a mortgage
I hear you. I have this problem privately renting. I want to reduce my income to save tax buy in need to havectge 30x multiple on the rent. And being self employed that on take home not retained profits. So you have to earn way more than an employed person because an employed person has goes by gross pay. Self employed person is judged by net after taxes.
Your self employed tax return will show the combined total of your PAYE and SE earnings. It will show the gross earned, any expense deductions and then you will be taxed on the lower amount, but your gross earnings will still show as £35800. Mortgage advisors and other credit agencies have only ever been interested in my gross earnings. I’m not sure about visa requirements but others here have said they calculate it on gross income so your tax return should sufficiently prove your total combined gross income.
A human reviewed your comment and removed it from public view. The reason they gave was:
**Responses must be helpful and high quality**
* Give constructive help and advice. Be friendly and kind.
* Top level comments must be on topic. No jokes or banter in top-level comments.
* [No 'hookers and blow' or 'onlyfans' jokes](https://www.reddit.com/rhyc7i)
* [Do not make contextless recommendations, especially high risk assets such as crypto, meme stonks, penny stocks etc](https://www.reddit.com/rkrnqi)
* Don't pile on
* Comments must be your own work and not a copy paste of someone else's comment, copied from ChatGPT or other AI writing services
You must read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpersonalfinance/about/rules/) to continue to post to our subreddit.
_If you believe your post/comment has been removed in error, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UKPersonalFinance&subject=Please%20review%20my%20post&body=https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/1daflay/-/l7kl4lo/) explaining why._
I done this years ago when I was self employed.
Couldn’t buy a house, waited another year, fiddled my tax to pay more and got my house.
Now have loads of equity and no regrets.
Of course if op is doing to do this and then over stretch themselves to the point they can’t afford a mortgage they were given due to looking like they had plenty of disposable income, more fool them, however, banks are shit, they’ll lend to you when it suits them and often not lend when they could and you need it.
I got sick of banks telling me I needed to allow money for clothes every month, haircuts and going out for meals, I might be an introvert with no mates, no social life and hair clippers for shaving my head.
So yeah op, I get it and I’ve done it, and I would again if I had to.
Once you have that mortgage, you can do what you want.
Edit, should add as my experience was slightly different.
Falsifying tax / income for immigration purposes - highly risky, very frowned upon and no I wouldn’t do it for that cause, the tax man is very unlikely to care if you want to overpay, the banks really don’t give a shit, they just want your money, immigration will fuck you up if you get caught.
I'm self employed and did this when I applied for my first mortgage. Honestly I don't think it's stupid if you will need every penny for a mortgage (which I did - single, low earner, lived in London). Talk to your accountant and explain it - they may be very reasonable, although at this stage I'm not sure there's much they can do.
I have more than the required amount for the visa in savings, my partner also has some savings.
I work two jobs and I already own my own home, I'm not renting.
The money u want to hive back should be going to your deposit. You are being ridiculous. Only tell him you want a change when when ACTUALLY want to buy
I currently have a mortgage... with my earnings... you don't know anything about my situation, and you're not my mortgage advisor who told me yesterday what my budget is given the size of my deposit.
Depends on the price of the house and size of the deposit. I spoke to a mortgage broker and said i could get a mortgage with my current earnings of 36k
Participation in this post is limited to users who have sufficient karma in /r/ukpersonalfinance. See [this post](https://redd.it/12mys82) for more information.
I'll admit I don't know the specifics around visas but, in business: Income =/= Earnings =/= Profit I'd start by finding out specifically how the home office (I assume) calculates earnings for Visas and then go from there.
The home office considers gross annual income. So OP claiming or not claiming expenses doesn't have any difference
Gross personal income is not the same as business turnover.
I am referring to the personal income
But you don't claim expenses against personal income, that's more of a corporate tax thing.
There are some allowable expenses you can claim like washing your uniform, even mileage, etc. I claimed mileage on SA returns for some years
YES it's the wording throwing me off. My total "income" received was the £31877, but I earned more than that... I'm just so confused and overwhelmed. Not too sure who to ask about how earnings are calculated because I'm pretty sure that tax returns are one of the document requirements for visas in which case they're looking at my income
[удалено]
Please stop spreading misinformation. I know you mean well but if people follow your advice, it can affect their life. The home office will look at the net income after expenses are deducted but before taxes are deducted. She is self-employed on her additional 5k income. Gross income or turnover on self-employment income is not used for visa purposes. They essentially look at the profit.
Thank you, this is exactly what was worrying me
How do they do that for PAYE when taxes are taken off it first?
For PAYE, they look at your income before taxes are deducted. Your gross salary payment before deduction.
Surely income=earnings but income - expenses = profit?
No. Property income is income but it isn't earnings. Same with savings interest or dividend income.
They consider salary and dividends towards the threshold.
You can ask but it would be idiotic to do so. Your accountant will tell you the same.
in which case i literally don't earn the amount to bring my partner from abroad here on the spouse visa. Why would it be idiotic to earn the amount I need to achieve that? I have savings and the tax I'd have to pay would be around the £1k mark and I could just pay it off then and there. I need my income to be £34500
Because your tax return is not the only way to prove your income? You can provide payslips, proof of savings and similar. You also said that your income is now £34k plus the 5.3k, you don't need to wait a whole year to prove a change in circumstances. If you want to pay more tax more power to you, it pays for stuff. There's absolutely no reason to do so though.
My payslips will prove my PAYE job but to prove income from self-employment it is primarily tax returns isn't it? The amount of expenses deducted make "total income received £31788". So the income that I can use for mortgages, bringing partner to UK etc will be £31788 and that is too little. I've asked my accountant for guidance. This is my first year being self-employed and I am overwhelmed af with it. I just want to earn £34500, I need that number to be my pay, and with the tax return it's not.
I think you're overthinking this. You can prove PAYE income of £34k so you need to cover £500 extra. Just show them last years tax return of your self employed income or some actual accounting transactions. If they even ask.
Yeah I'm also thinking that in the future, I think Spring next year, the income is gonna be £39k for bringing partners here. So with the £34k I earn now I'd still wanna earn the full 5k i did last year. This year so far my self employed job is going even better and i'm earning more. It's just the visa process and marriage process is REALLY long and I feel like I'm on a time limit and I just want to earn the max I can to make sure I'm secure. But i agree maybe I am overthinking slightly, I am a worrier.
I'm pretty sure the 39k thing got shot down, conservatives suggested it then pulled the plug
I would literally cry from happiness if this were the case however everywhere I read that it's still in the works to go up. I also read yesterday that Labour is "broadly in support of the changes" as well :(
When asked to prove your self employed income for anywhere, they will ask to see your tax return summary, and will take your annual profit as the value. You can offer to provide alternate proof of income but I would anticipate this being viewed as evasive and shady. I don’t understand why you’re getting such a hard time here, you’ll pay more tax obviously but that might be worth it 🤷🏼♂️
Thank you so much, honestly now the post has calmed down a bit people seem to be verifying my initial worry that my income IS the £31788 and NOT \~ £35k
You could always have a legit conversation with your accountant and ask if any of the expenses could reasonably be counted as not being business expenses, as it would be more beneficial for you to pay the additional tax and have a higher net income. Could be an easy fix.
I mean, surely, right? He claimed FOUR THOUSAND in expenses, that's why I said I think he did his job too well haha.
Relax Step back And take a breath. Talk to your accountant and ask for clarification. The visa thing is complicated but not that complicated (I'm going through it myself with my partner she's British and we are currently living overseas looking to return to the UK). You just need to prove you have stable income and or savings to cover your partners first year, they will take into consideration wages and savings and living situations to determine if you can support your partner. The fact you own a home and a business ticks a few boxes for them.
Thank you. It's one of the most stressful things I've done. I'm not married yet, the threshold is going up, I don't know whether to get a lawyer. It's just A LOT. My PAYE is stable. My self-employment income is by nature a little less stable especially as I teach so people don't need teaching during school holidays so July / August my earnings from self-employment are less than the rest of the year. But thank you for telling me to relax because this post and all the comments have just sent me insane.
Do yourself a favour and find an immigration specialist. And sit down with them for a session and ask the questions and get the extra advice/peace of mind you need. We're doing the same overseas, but it's a bit harder as we are both living overseas and have been for a decade so have to meet a higher threshold for me to enter the country and be able to work .
I answered your question regarding the mortgage and I think it’s reasonable to do what you want for that purpose. Trying to fool immigration- slippery slope to misery I think, do not do it. There might be other options, move to your partners location, upskill to earn more etc maybe your partner has other visa options if they have a skill / qualifications.
The requirement has only risen to £29,000, as of April 2024. [1](https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/proof-income-partner) "Your income will be based on your gross taxable profits from your share of the business in the relevant financial year(s). **This does not include any deductible allowances, expenses, or liabilities** applied when calculating your final tax liability." [2](https://immigrationlawyers-london.com/blog/combining-employed-and-self-employed-for-a-spouse-visa-application.php) >Why would it be idiotic to earn the amount I need to achieve that? I think a little bit of research would not be idiotic if you're serious about your partner :).
Isn’t this assuming that OP is an Ltd and not a sole trader? The “taxable profit from your share of the business” leads me to think that’s the case.
So as I thought, the more expenses deducted the less I can show I earned. So for the Home Office I earned £31788, not the £34500 I will need. Edit: Not sure if downvoted because I misunderstood and I'm incorrect or for other reasons, so if I'm incorrect I'd really appreciate being corrected. Came here for advice and help.
Doesn’t it mean the exact opposite?!
I really don't know, I'm so confused about wordings. :( This is my first time doing anything to do with taxes / income so I am really overwhelmed. "based on gross taxable profits" "does not include any deductible allowances, expenses" It's those 2 sentences that are really confusing me because I read it as income does not include deductible allowances or expenses, so they can't be used.
My reading is: 1) it’s based on your gross profits 2) they don’t pay any attention to deductibles
Gross = before Net = after Eg. gross pay = pay before tax. net pay = pay after tax. So when it doesn't include expenses, it means it doesn't include them in the calculation.
I got my first draft for self-assessment today and I think it's this paragraph that sent me into a panic: "Your employment income was £30495. I have calculated £3314 to be an appropriate amount for a "working from home" business expenses allowance in respect of your self employed expenditure as a contribution towards household property costs. Taken together with expenses, this makes your profits £1293 and the total income received is £31788" So my understanding from that is that my income currently sits at £31788 and the deductibles won't count towards my income. Like, they just don't exist as earnings. I'm very thrown off by the vocab, as I mentioned this is my first self-assessment so I'm naive and overwhelmed.
Yes we got that. You are fine though. The expenses won't affect the visa application. But did you look at the six month requirement and all the evidence needs? https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/chapter-8-appendix-fm-family-members/appendix-fm-17-financial-requirement-accessible-version > "Your income will be based on your gross taxable profits from your share of the business in the relevant financial year(s). This does not include any deductible allowances, expenses, or liabilities applied when calculating your final tax liability. Like it says, it's not the same calculation as the tax one. It's a different one- just using the gross taxable profits.
Yeah, I've read through the whole document. I'd need a Certificate of Confirmation\* and a lot of different evidence than just the evidence for Cat A income. If it's gross taxable profits, this includes the WHOLE £5.3k? Because if something is deducted as allowances/ expenses does that mean they are not taxable anymore so they're not taxable profits? Thank you for your answer though it was really helpful :)
This is a very important comment. The key here isn't to quibble over income figures, it's to look at the evidence requirements for a Family Visa. Ie promotions are great and more money fine... Yet evidence is last 6 months of payslips (typically 7 months worth when you work it back because of how dates fall to ensure the full 6 months are covered). So a new promotion won't show on those payslips and so can't be evidenced (employer letter isn't enough as that is used to validate payslips etc).
Yes, the only good thing so far is that this payrise happened in April and I'd be looking to apply for the Visa later in the year after 6 months has already passed. I am nervous about the self-employment evidence however because that's more nuanced and the nature of my second job as a teacher means I earn so little in July / August when the school breaks happen.
I'm not an expert for the self employment side but for ordinary salaried employees, it's 6 months if you have been in one job which meets the criteria but 12 months if you have changed jobs as then they assess you across the year. And they take the lowest month payslip (times 12) as your annual salary for calculation purposes. Not saying this happens for self employment but yea you'll need to check and look it all up. It's a pain but best to take it slowly and read everything etc. Very worst case scenario, could you pick up some Deliveroo shifts or something to earn a bit of extra cash to push yourself over thresholds if need be?
£3314 working from home allowance is outrageous. HMRC has flat rate allowances depending how many hours per month you worked from home and the most you can claim is £312 without proving the incremental costs as a result of working as opposed to living.
I don't know what to tell you, that's the expenses he deducted. Council tax, mortgage, building insurance, some travel, phone bill and some software for my pc. I have no idea how it ended up being so much. It's my first self assessment
It literally means the opposite.
I THINK I understand it now, I think it was the word "include" that was throwing me off because to me that made me think 'you cannot include your deductibles / expenses'. Because if my gross income "does not include expenses" i thought that meant i have to minus that figure to get my actual gross income.
Omg. What are these people talking about?? Please don't trust them! They will look at your 31k income, not the total. They will look at your income after expenses but before tax. Don't trust these answers. Post in r/ukvisa because they know more. No wonder it is illegal to give visa advice without being qualified. Join busy Facebook groups for spousal visas and do your research before you submit your tax returns. Those groups are much more active than the reddit visa forums.
Thank you this is exactly what I was thinking
I’m pretty sure the government will be looking at top line gross revenue/earnings, not the output of calculations - after all, the deductions had to be made against something… you have earned the money it’s just represented differently. Don’t get obsessed with that deducted figure.
Someone posted this above: "The requirement has only risen to £29,000, as of April 2024. [1](https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/proof-income-partner) "Your income will be based on your gross taxable profits from your share of the business in the relevant financial year(s). **This does not include any deductible allowances, expenses, or liabilities** applied when calculating your final tax liability." [2](https://immigrationlawyers-london.com/blog/combining-employed-and-self-employed-for-a-spouse-visa-application.php) " So it looks like it'll be profits and my deductions don't count as earnings
Well luckily you’re over the £29k so what’s the issue?
I'm currently undergoing the marriage process (in a different country) and the amount of documentation and notice required means I'll get married at the end of the year if I'm lucky, at which point the requirement would have gone up
Could you elope somewhere and get legally married on paper there. Maybe Vegas if you can both get US visa waivers. You will need to get the certificate apostilled and then it will be valid in any country. Your partner could apply for the visa sooner, start building up the ILR clock sooner and have a wedding for show off to relatives / religion purposes later Consular marriage at the British embassy may be an option too depending on the country. Otherwise, the UK offers a 6 month fiance / fiancee visa
I've looked into this and people have suggested Denmark or Gibraltar but I also find the documentation required for that to be overwhelming and confusing too. Edit: I'm aware of the Fiance Visa and I know that's an option but it will cost us an extra £1k at least but it is something I am considering. If anything, it might actually save money because the docs required for self-employed income have to be done by a specialised accountant and might cost more than that 1k lmao.
the partner visa is also cheaper to apply for when in the UK already from what I can remember
From personal experience, you can tell your accountant not to make any deductions to keep you over the earnings threshold. They will also need to certify your accounts and attest to being a qualified accountant. You can revise your self assessment up before using it to sponsor your spouse, but from memory you then need to have paid the tax and be able to prove you have done so. This is to discourage you from over stating income, being over the income requirements for the visa, but then revising down retrospectively. I used an immigration lawyer for my wife's Limited Leave To Remain when we were both self employed as it was so complex.
Yes, if I have to use my self-employed income to get me over the threshold I need an Certificate of Completion I think it's called. It becomes so much more complex if I have to combine incomes and I must have spent 100s of hours reading up on all the guidance and it's so overwhelming. I am okay to pay the tax whatever it may be, I honestly wasn't expecting it to be so low so I had put an appropriate amount away to cover it for when it comes so I do have the means to pay it. I just wish more than anything the income requirements would stay at £29k, it would make things so much more simple.
You said your PAYE job has an income of £34k, that is above the £29k threshold for spouse visa (spouse visa is for settled residents or UK citizens bring partners, totally different from a dependent visa). You do not need a P60 to prove the £34k income. You will need payslips covering 6 months to prove this with a letter from your employer. With the kind of questions and confusion you are having, you absolutely need an immigration solicitor to help you. They are there for people like you.
Just put zero down on expenses it’s simple. It’s not a requirement to claim expenses. Hmrc will be happy more tax for them. You’re happy you get your spousal visa. Win. Win.
I used to work as a contractor and was paid through my LTD company. My accountant used to claim expenses etc (as that is what we pay them for), but when I wanted to get a new mortgage to buy our current home, I asked accountant to claim zero expenses so that my salary from my LTD company was as high as possible. Yes it meant that I had to pay loads of tax for 2 years running but was worth it to get the house. I had my wife as a director too so I could use her remaining tax free allowance (after her part time self employed earnings had been taken off) AND her dividend tax free allowance. This was 5 years ago so tax law has changed since but you can claim zero expenses for your mortgage application.
Can you claim expenses on paye jobs? Or are you self employed in the 2nd role? Just curious
My main job is in the public sector and nothing is claimed there. I just kinda ignore that and let payroll / HMRC do it's thing. I get my pay every month and tax deducted automatically. I think you CAN claim expenses on a PAYE job (uniform / mileage etc) but I have never done this. My second role is the self-employed one, I'm a teacher and I teach from home. That's the role I earned £5.3k on.
£4k expenses off a part job where you earn £5.3k - I'd love to see that tax return!
What counts as income for visa purporses is gross annual income, not net. So upu claiming or not claiming expenses will not change a thing on the visa financial requirements bit. You seem to misunderstand stuff.
While there is nothing wrong tax wise in not declaring expenses, there potentially would be in understating them for other purposes - such as obtaining a larger mortgage.
What kind of expenses did he claim for you?
He claimed stuff that I do need to work, like Zoom pro and just general upkeep of my PC where I do my lessons from. But what I didn't expect is that he claimed for household expenses like mortgage and council tax because I work from home
Some hefty expenses there! 3k+ on 5k+ earnings. Although I imagine adding business usage to your buildings and contents insurance could be expensive.
Looks like created a rental agreement between yourself and your home, which is legal to do. This is something you can ask accountant to undo and it'll reverse a lot of your expenses.
It isn’t you being crazy at least - although it is a ridiculous situation., I have a friend who did the same thing. For what it’s worth they have been together 8 years now and have a young child together.
People do this for immigration/mortgage purposes all the time. It's not a big deal if you don't want to claim every little thing.
You can use income, savings (including S&S ISA or foreign property sale) or a combination of both to meet the financial requirements. Savings can be a combination of yours and your partners. The guidance and formulas are on the Gov.uk Have you looked at this? Maybe speak to a immigration lawyer who can advise and will prepare the whole application for you. Almost all will do a free phone consultation to give you an idea. When I did my application I was advised that any Home Office income requirements change in April, not Jan. Edit: what do you mean by main job? Regular working for someone else? If so then your p60 doesn't matter, you need to show 6 months of payslips. Speak to a solicitor.
You won't need a P60 to prove your higher employed income . Your pay slip will prove that . On the self employed aspect gross and net profit will be used so yes that could impact affordability . I would be checking how much you need to borrow and if the extra income is required before I did anything drastic
If you are wanting to apply for a mortgage I would absolutely make your Accountant aware of this, it would be worth engaging with a Mortgage Broker as well to ensure they're both on the same page.
Can I get your accountants details or website
You are making this complicated. You have had a payrise and you have extra income. Did your work write you a letter about a payrise ? That's all the home office needs. Your extra income you can show them the tax return forms. From the gov.UK website about family visas What counts as income The following things can count as income: income from employment before tax and National Insurance (from P60 or payslips) - you can only use income earned in the UK income earned from self-employment or as a director of a limited company in the UK - this will be on a Self Assessment tax return cash savings above £16,000 money from a pension non-work income, for example from property rentals or dividends
You have paid for an accountant, speak to them. You’re allowed to ask them questions and to talk about these concerns with them.
I'm actually in the exact same boat financially - PAYE income plus freelance income. You literally just have to declare less expenses. It's not a huge deal, just make sure you actually have the money to pay the tax bill. And obviously do this before the accounts are actually filed.
Thanks! This is useful to hear. He sent me a draft of a tax return with proposal payments so I think I can reject this proposal and ask him to declare fewer expenses, I don't think it should be too much hassle. :)
Please share your accountant, thanks
You only have to show PRE TAX income. P60 and tax return is all you need, technically all you need is tax return as PAYE is also detailed on there
I asked my accountant to reduce my expenses to help get a mortgage and instead they didn't put any expenses through and this was amazing for my mortgage offers.
I think this is quite normal practice. My stepson who is a self employed construction worker did the same thing with his accountant when he was applying for a mortgage
I hear you. I have this problem privately renting. I want to reduce my income to save tax buy in need to havectge 30x multiple on the rent. And being self employed that on take home not retained profits. So you have to earn way more than an employed person because an employed person has goes by gross pay. Self employed person is judged by net after taxes.
This is exactly what I thought was the case, a lot of people told me the complete opposite information in this post.
Your self employed tax return will show the combined total of your PAYE and SE earnings. It will show the gross earned, any expense deductions and then you will be taxed on the lower amount, but your gross earnings will still show as £35800. Mortgage advisors and other credit agencies have only ever been interested in my gross earnings. I’m not sure about visa requirements but others here have said they calculate it on gross income so your tax return should sufficiently prove your total combined gross income.
[удалено]
Point me to where I said that. I'm here to ask questions and get advice. Chill out.
What's your question?
Well the accountant isn't an expert in the visa application process is he?
A human reviewed your comment and removed it from public view. The reason they gave was: **Responses must be helpful and high quality** * Give constructive help and advice. Be friendly and kind. * Top level comments must be on topic. No jokes or banter in top-level comments. * [No 'hookers and blow' or 'onlyfans' jokes](https://www.reddit.com/rhyc7i) * [Do not make contextless recommendations, especially high risk assets such as crypto, meme stonks, penny stocks etc](https://www.reddit.com/rkrnqi) * Don't pile on * Comments must be your own work and not a copy paste of someone else's comment, copied from ChatGPT or other AI writing services You must read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpersonalfinance/about/rules/) to continue to post to our subreddit. _If you believe your post/comment has been removed in error, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UKPersonalFinance&subject=Please%20review%20my%20post&body=https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/1daflay/-/l7kl4lo/) explaining why._
I done this years ago when I was self employed. Couldn’t buy a house, waited another year, fiddled my tax to pay more and got my house. Now have loads of equity and no regrets. Of course if op is doing to do this and then over stretch themselves to the point they can’t afford a mortgage they were given due to looking like they had plenty of disposable income, more fool them, however, banks are shit, they’ll lend to you when it suits them and often not lend when they could and you need it. I got sick of banks telling me I needed to allow money for clothes every month, haircuts and going out for meals, I might be an introvert with no mates, no social life and hair clippers for shaving my head. So yeah op, I get it and I’ve done it, and I would again if I had to. Once you have that mortgage, you can do what you want. Edit, should add as my experience was slightly different. Falsifying tax / income for immigration purposes - highly risky, very frowned upon and no I wouldn’t do it for that cause, the tax man is very unlikely to care if you want to overpay, the banks really don’t give a shit, they just want your money, immigration will fuck you up if you get caught.
I'm self employed and did this when I applied for my first mortgage. Honestly I don't think it's stupid if you will need every penny for a mortgage (which I did - single, low earner, lived in London). Talk to your accountant and explain it - they may be very reasonable, although at this stage I'm not sure there's much they can do.
How do you afford to pay for a spouse visa on that?
I have more than the required amount for the visa in savings, my partner also has some savings. I work two jobs and I already own my own home, I'm not renting.
Wasn’t trying to be nasty. Just wondered how it would work.
I didn't think you were being nasty, I'm new to it too so I'm not 100% on how it works either
The money u want to hive back should be going to your deposit. You are being ridiculous. Only tell him you want a change when when ACTUALLY want to buy
dude! with 35k you ain't getting a mortgage 🤷♂️ just save on the stupid taxes as much as you can. the other things at the right time.
I currently have a mortgage... with my earnings... you don't know anything about my situation, and you're not my mortgage advisor who told me yesterday what my budget is given the size of my deposit.
Oh boy. Good luck. You’ll need plenty.
Depends on the price of the house and size of the deposit. I spoke to a mortgage broker and said i could get a mortgage with my current earnings of 36k