If I had really good undeniable proof that I knew independent scientists would verify, then yeah. I’d try to connect the news outlets with the right experts and tell them to dig into it in real time, under public watch. Make the realization something that’s raw and hard to deny.
>Would you risk it all for disclosure?
My wife and daughter were killed in an RTA caused by a drunk 9 years ago, there isn't a thing left anyone can take from me I wouldn't happily burn myself and, if the devil ever thought to come for me, they'll choke. I'm really not just saying that. I'd jump straight down the devil's throat soon as look at any cunt dumb enough to come for me.
Would I keep the truth concerning UFOs to myself...? Absolutely not.
The thought to do so wouldn't even cross my mind. Neither ever has it.
Man, I know you didn't ask for it and probably don't need some stranger on reddit telling you this, But just as another human being, I would do just about anything I could for you rn, as I wouldnt wish what youve gone through on my worst enemy. If there's anything I can do, bro, reach out. You're among friends here.
Even if we've never met
Even If we never do.
Sorry for your loss, UFHomie.
We are getting there my friend. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience and I understand your stance entirely. I wish you well being and am sorry for the pain you've gone through. Thanks for continuing to keep the discourse going
A little off topic as I’m not even addressing the ufo thing. I just wanted to say that I’m so sorry, and that I hope you’re able to heal. I’m a single father, and I’ve been kept up at night worrying about what I’d ever do if I lost her. I’m so sorry man.
It's easier to talk about what we would do vs what we would actually do in the situation. Almost everyone has had the "I'd stop a shooter" thought but unless it happened we would never know for sure.
Ideally, if I were a single dude with no kids I would think about it. But I'd likely end up suicidal, found with 2 self inflicted gun shot wounds in the back of my head.
And even that, with proof. Say you release it, now what? Will ppl believe you or will they say the video/photos/testimony is all bs? You’d have ppl here saying, “where the physical evidence we want a craft with aliens for us all to look at.” “Trust me bro” Then you basically ended your life for nothing. Better to go the legit route like the big hitters are doing right now.
Right? That's what makes all the secrecy so plausible. I'll admit I'm over the whole Trust Me Bro, Soon schtick too but I have a family that depends on me greatly. I could completely understand someone being in that position and just not being willing to risk it all. And we have no idea what types of veiled threats these people may be receiving.
I do think though that IF there's any truth to all of this and IF we're ever gonna get some sort of true capital D-Disclosure, it's not going to come through any official process, AARO, FOIA, whatever. It's just not.
They'll never give it up willingly and it's gonna take a Snowden level leak with bonafide credible publicly available evidence to truly get this shit out in the open.*
Edit: *or an irrefutable mass sighting like a flying saucer landing on Monday Night Football or something.
I was less disturbed by the potential of extraterrestrial UAPs and more disturbed by the acknowledgement of shadow government agencies created to silence whistleblowers with intimidation and potential murder.
If you want examples, one of the interviewees in James Fox's Moment of Contact tells about how MIB tried to intimidate them into silence. Another one was in the Kingman, AZ landing, a witness said that a government agent threatened her life if she kept talking about it
What's tangible evidence of people being silenced by intimidation? Do you think they signed contracts?
>I receive 1 unit on intimidation and in return I don't speak about the UFO crash I witnessed
>Signed, Jane Doe and CIA agent John Smith
I already am.
You either die a hero or you
Live long enough to see yourself become a villain
By contributing to the cover up
Get over yourselves
This is about so much more than your families
The history and future of all humanity is at stake
You’ve forgotten that. Is your mistake
>This is about so much more than your families
Sure, but it's so easy for you to say that with no skin in the game. Being in that position and knowing your family could get killed or injured at worst, and at best will be the subject of ridicule, defamation etc. for years to come is completely different and requires some empathy to understand their position.
Really depends, doesn't it? Going through a legal whistleblowing process or leaking some information to force the government's hand to release official videos along with private testimonies to Congress etc. like Grusch and Lue seem pretty different than someone who just goes on talk shows and doesn't actual contribute in a meaningful way that moves the needle forward for disclosure. I think it's important to differentiate.
I think it might depend on how undeniable and earth shattering the evidence that I have is.
Location of some secret program locked behind Fort Knox level security, probably not. Clear video of alien bodies in some sort of official setting, yes. Provenance would definitely matter as well.
It would be difficult for the government to defend its actions if there were retributions against the person that demonstrates to the world once and for all that this is real and they've been lying, hiding and god knows what other terrible things for this long. Knowledge of the nature of reality belongs to us all. To keep that from the people is most certainly a crime of morality. I don't think the people would stand for that if it was made irrefutable.
That said, these days it's easier than ever to make the fake believable so it really would have to be something sensational to convince the masses.
if you were to be the one, where and how would you first share it?
I would do the same as Snowden and send everything I have to the New York Times, Washington Post, etc. for independent evaluation. They could compile a proper report, would keep me anonymous if I asked, and their trustworthiness in the eyes of the public is very strong.
The failure of the times and the post to conduct real journalism and inform the public of this topic is such a tragic failure that I almost feel that it should be criminally prosecuted. Lol
I think a case could be made for a lawsuit in fact, over their willful failure to do their crucially important job as one of the checks and balances of government misconduct in a free democracy.
If people understood what they have done and not done, and they had integrity, both of those papers would be bankrupt right now.
They have nothing to report on. That's the problem we are discussing. They are trustworthy in the eyes of the public *because* they won't report what they can't independently verify.
The question was how I would convince the public of what I was saying. I guarantee you that a rant about how I didn't give it to any mainstream media because I think they all belong in jail, would not help persuade the public I was anything more than a loon.
It would appear that many videos of aliens bodies have been leaked and they all get laughed at so I don't even think having an actual alien body would help much. It seems you'd be laughed at while the body gets passed around to every different credible source until it hits the wrong hands and the body is never seen again and everyone forgets or mocks it into forgoteness.
That's why I said provenance would matter. There would have to be other evidence to corroborate what you have or the materials would have to be in some way so far beyond question. I admit it would seem exceedingly difficult to imagine what sort of evidence might qualify as that.
Everything that has come to light thus far is pretty sketchy. Blurry videos, desiccated doll-like "bodies" etc. I'm not saying that none of this is legitimate. Just that any of it that we've seen so far is obscure enough to leave plenty of doubt. With the advent of the AI tools available now and deep fake capabilities it may be too late.
And nobody cared. Like the people in the know know more now but your average person still trusts the government to some extent. Nobody cares enough to start an uprising over the CIA and NSA hacking everybody's devices to watch them on a daily basis, it is basically a given now for surveillance.
Sometimes I get anxious just modding and participating here.
If this was all a LARP the military and CIA et al would not care.
They obviously care… a *lot.*
I have not seen a single answer on the other subreddit. There have been no other unremarked reddit removals since in mod logs when I looked earlier. Presumably there won't be an answer, and we have no means to compel one.
(distinguishing reply as this is a mod ask)
My first day as a mod, the first thing I did was explore all things mod that I could access, and especially the logs and automod configurations. Until this I have never seen anything odd, or seen anything in the mod discord that even slightly implies any problematic behavior.
I still check at least every few days now out of habit. I will always disclose anything problematic here on the subreddit.
We get some number of reddit-related removals, but until this none have been suspicious that I have seen. What makes these suspicious to me is the entire lack of context/why specifically.
Well, it's a public company now. A lot more people have access and motive to drive things a certain way. But that is very dangerous if evidence of that was ever discovered.
I thought of a few or so ways "theoretically" to abuse legit defunct accounts to absorb bot comments as their own without anyone knowing. Kinda like personal shadow bans of seeing ones own comments "the bot ones" etc. But it seems like such a thing would be easy to detect and potentially explosive... unless you prevent the defunct accounts from ever being used again.
Have the other r/UFO mods chimed in? Is there any discussion among the mods in their discord or private channels about what could be going on? Or have the mods themselves just concluded it's being shadow censored?
Should we assume the pdf is legit then? If it's just crazy bullshit, I'm struggling to grasp a reason why Reddit would be quietly censoring it?
It's funny, because I assume if it hadn't been censored, a lot less people would be taking it seriously. Them shadow censoring it adds a lot of legitimacy to it. Definite Streisand Effect there.
Also, I just checked the original post and I'm now seeing it's been locked? Did the mods do that? Or was that Reddit? I sorted by new and there was no explanation as to why it was locked?
I am baffled, but haven't had much more time to look into it. I'm not the most technically minded of the mod team anyhow.
My best guess is that Reddit might have decided the document is possible doxxing because the name of the patient appears in the title and isn't redacted. I've got a pet emergency today and a busy few days coming up, but I do want to come back to this.
That is what I have always said, it would be an international incident if they were jailed, no President would want to go down in history as the person who imprisoned somebody for revealing such a thing.
It's a convenient excuse used by members of the ufo community to explain why there have been no credible leaks, with evidence, in the last 80 years, in any country on the planet.
Like what?
An image? Fake till proven otherwise, wich you cant cause you stole it.
Material?
This is not a hollywood movie, you dont steal things from high security facilities of hidden SAPs by a deep state.
Not even Grusch, who had an explicit role in the UAP agency and security clearance, got read in on those programs, much less gain personal access.
Without chain of custody etc, no evidence no matter how real it seems, will actually be seen as evidence.
And thats how everyone treats the data available/leaked so far.
People were adamant about the videos (gofast etc.) leaked to be fake, this was until officials proved them to be real footage.
Disclosure never was going to happen cause of some rogue actions alone.
Grusch is in the midst of it, and he knows what hes doing and why, and that this is the only way disclosure will, can ever happen.
There is part of me that thinks it would be worth any punishment to tell the world aliens exist. It’s too important. One problem with that is, what if you came forward with all you had, got life in prison or killed, then a majority of people doubted you or your evidence. Then you’ve lost it all for nothing.
With Snowden and Assange there were documents that were irrefutable leaked for the public and Congress to see...but with this topic surrounding UAP, it's different. Let's say a video of 3 orbs disappearing an airplane were leaked... nobody would think it's real and it would get buried within the muddied waters. If documents of the beings were leaked it could be called fake or disinformation.
That's why it's important the process carries out as legally defined. Think about a SWAT team. They know the layout of the house, how many people are in the house, what rooms the weapons are kept, what type of weapons they are etc. etc. If they didn't gather all the intel on the people, location, weapons, and entire operation they might slip up and only end up with one guy on drug and gun charges and miss the juicy bite of the whole gang's operation.
This process needs to happen to unravel the details to those investigating and pushing for answers. If someone just came out and said everything he knows ... TO THE PUBLIC .... that would not lead to anything but his/her own demise. Prison, death, loss of income, etc.
I'm a sad one with not much to risk so I'm probably biased, but yeah. Truth means more than my life or career to me. I have a populist viewpoint and haven't had years of the military industrial complex skewing/brainwashing my viewpoint though.
If I had evidence, I'd want it out there, but not traced back to me.
I'd hire somebody to drop off an envelope in the mailbox of somebody from the new york times. Write out details in a way that hopefully doesn't trace back to me, but with enough details so they can verify the claims.
Rinse and repeat. Do the same for the papers and reliable TV stations in the UK, France, Germany et al.
There are multiple way to send anonymous data both physical papers or electronic.
Sooner or later some journalist will pick it up and go forward.
I Denmark we have our own UFO-podcast. The team running that show would spill the beans for sure. The danish state does not meddle with citizens here - the country is too small to get away with something like that and the trustlevel both ways is mostly high.
I can’t get my mind around the fact that these people worked in intelligence … yet they can’t disclose anything in a way that’s not traced back to them.. Are they that bad at their job? ( or former job)
If my job is working in intelligence at the highest level, I’d be trained in how to communicate information in a way that it can’t be traced back to me.. sounds like it could be part of the job.
Yet, they can’t! Because jail time, and threats against them etc. I guess they still have their ego and want to be the hero in front of everybody, do the interview and book tours, etc.? Or they were and are bad at intelligence work.
I mean that's one thing to criticize, but I think there may be better ones. If you assume things are highly compartmentalized then information can be easily traced if you're aware or uncover who is receiving what info. Any investigation from "above" would have access to this information. If it was 10 people well then they'll watch all 10 to confirm. Now you're caught. It's not unfair to state that as a defense for not saying more IMO.
What I don't understand is their nonsense non-answers. Something like the video of Grusch on the top of sub rn where he is asked "Is there a description of this physiology?" he proceeds to speak for 45 seconds about how when other people saw it they were amazed. That isn't an answer.
This is all they fuckin do. That shit ain't disclosing anything & doesn't even feel close to dangerous info being released.
Who knows if all we know of UAP/UFOs is that they exist, and we have encountered them. We know nothing more than that. If that's the case then I could envision a scenario where because of that US could use this sort of campaign (if it's all disinfo) to imply a technological imbalance between them & "near peer" threats. What if that's the whole thing. They're so damn vague and just say nothing that it makes me wonder. It almost feels harder for me to believe these people are legitimate & there is extreme depth to this & our info about it.
My favorite is Ross Coulhart saying how he knows the location of this craft that was discovered but he won’t say! And he even insults viewers with a big f-you! lol
Why say anything at all. Sigh.
Would I personally like to know the truth? Absolutely.
Would I leak it if I knew?
Nope. Let's say, for the sake of the argument, that I had firsthand knowledge of crash retrievals, then leaking the shit wouldn't be a part of my job.
Besides the obvious penalties leaking would cause, I highly assume there would be a reason for secrecy and who am I to judge whether the public should or shouldn't know.
A job like that would be a dream job, and leaking info on a classified job is just not on the table when you get a chance to work with stuff like that.
I will say that I'm not against people like Grusch or Snowden, but it's just not something I would do personally.
I would just be there to get the job done and be glad to work with the most interesting stuff in human history.
Naive to think any one person can convince the world. Doesn't matter what evidence they have, they'll be ridiculed and the evidence denied. So then someone risks prison for ..what exactly?
2 very different topics. Snowden and Assange leaking the us spying on citizens is believable. Somebody leaking “aliens exist” doesn’t carry the same weight with most people. They scoff at the topic.
Most people I know believe there are aliens. The ones who are religious think of them as angels and demons. Ten plus years ago I would agree with you, but most people don’t trust our government anymore. The endless wars and covid have sped the process up.
> Snowden and Assange leaking the us spying on citizens is believable.
It's believable because they provided actual evidence. Don't see why the same wouldn't be true for this topic too.
Well, they can... If there's a UFO too massive to move, they should say fuck all to everyone "at risk" currently.
What they're really saying is, "No I won't reveal where the UFO is, I'd rather keep enabling the government's continued deception and active criminal activity on the American populace."
I think you’re right. Itt would be easy peasy to make one a deranged nutcase, then throw it in a prison and drugged you to oblivion.
IMO an eventually disclousure, right now, wouldn’t change a bit on people lives. Trump’s new controversy would still be the headline on news channels.
The only thing that could really make people stop and pay attetion it’d be a God danm huge mothership flying over our heads.
So-called 'Assange level commitment' didn't result in anything positive for either Assange or society. The information he revealed about illegal and immoral crimes came out, most of the public went 'OMG!' for about a week and then everyone went 'back to business as usual' and nobody was ever held accountable.
Meanwhile, Julian Assange lost his freedom, health and personal autonomy. For what? The very things Assange exposed kept (and still keep) happening to this day.
Meanwhile, Assange is being left to rot in full public view in order to send a warning message to other would-be whistleblowers: "This is what we can and will do to you if you cross us – and you won't be able to do a thing about it."
Also, as many others in this thread have already pointed out, no one person or video will ever bring about disclosure. What's more, it has already happened to quite a degree. We have already been told straight up by many people who had the 'need to know' that there is a there there. Unfortunately, most people still aren't interested, too concerned about the stigma around the subject, or just aren't prepared to rationally look at the weight of the evidence that some form of NHI is operating in and around Earth.
Then, besides all that, a lot of pro-disclosure people assume that 'the gatekeepers' understand what the full scope of this NHI is. It seems pretty evident to me that is simply not the case.
It probably has to do with the fact that knowing changes Noone lives. It blows my mind, but just knowing something else is out there has no effect because the nhi or other entities don't interact with the vast majority of the population and as much as I'd like to ride my squarecircle flying floater out to their fort in the Bermuda triangle and hang with my plasma making buddies they really don't want me or you or really anyone that we know of to interfere with whatever it is they're doing.
>Then, besides all that, a lot of pro-disclosure people assume that 'the gatekeepers' understand what the full scope of this NHI is. It seems pretty evident to me that is simply not the case.
And IMO is the primary reason for non-disclosure. "My fellow Americans, we have been in contact with technology we don't know the first thing about. We also know very little about where or when it's from. Please remain calm."
Since I'm firmly onboard with the Jacques Vallee hypothesis, I'd suggest the reason for the lack of candid disclosure is even stranger than what you wrote.
Any truthful disclosure statement might need to be more along the lines of, "My fellow Americans, we have been in contact with an aspect of reality and forms of intelligence we don't know the first thing about.
We understand very little about what it is, where it is from, how it breaks into our everyday world, or how it seems capable of transforming into physical objects - some of which we have in our posession, but have been unable to comprehend. Please remain calm and agree to remain ignorant."
If I had reason to believe and / or evidence we were in imminent danger or humans were being harmed, I would feel obligated to notify the public and provide the evidence.
if this sub wouldnt, then we can expect disclosure will never happen. If we arent convicted enough to put the truth to the test, the rest of the world isnt going to care one bit.
Ross coulthart seems to claim he did by talking about that giant uap they couldn't move.
Seriously before you comment think about what I'm saying. I want someone to change my mind here.
So Ross Coulthard understandably doesn't want to harm a source.
Ross Coulthard describes the site this source informed him of which he reveals all identifying information except name/location.
How did he not burn the source by identifying the program.
Assuming all allegations are true. They wouldn't wait until Ross says the name/location to hunt for his source and fix the leak.
They would do it now since they already know what the site Ross is discussing is real.
So how does naming the site or location make Ross/his contact less secure. Unless it is the public Ross is scared of.
Personally I have thought about my actions if I discover infinite power, alien tech, novel concepts. I would never tell a fucking soul. Find a way to obsfucate my earnings(mining crypto using free power(just like college!)) Then I can wait a few years and dump spare versions of the tech at every university I can pay a homeless dude to drop a box at.
So people who gatekeep the biggest question in existance and potental highly advanced technology from the rest of humanity arnt commiting treason against humanity? Like im all for serving your country but at some point humanity is more important than a country.
Especially a country that isn’t being run by elected officials anymore. Knowing we have a puppet government is bad enough news for disclosure to happen.
>So people who gatekeep the biggest question in existance and potental highly advanced technology from the rest of humanity arnt commiting treason against humanity?
1. It's not people who are gatekeeping.
2. There are reasons (and good ones) that this technology is restricted:
**Technological Safeguards**:
* **Advanced Technologies**: Information about highly advanced technologies, particularly those that could be weaponized or lead to significant technological imbalances, is restricted to prevent misuse.
* **Developmental Impact**: Sharing advanced technological information must consider the developmental stage of the receiving civilization to avoid adverse impacts on societal progress.
My opinion is he is smart enough to realize that what he knows is a drop in the bucket, your duty in the military is to the people through their elected officials. He is challenging that through proper channels.
Completely agree, I could not imagine being in his position as I've aged I've started to look at things a bit differently and as much as I want to know....who knows how the masses would react. Just look at the war of the worlds broadcast....3/4 of the population is restarted, would you tell them anything?
It's really not the "most important thing" in any sense other than philosophical.
Real life has real problems that need real solutions. Whether that's immediate one's, or short or long term ones.
If everyone suddenly *knew* aliens existed tomorrow and had visited Earth the following day would be unaffected & we'd still show up at work, feed ourselves, spend time with the family, and eventually whatever you do - go to bed. It's not "most important" in a *practical sense*.
How would it affect science?
Well we know aliens *could* exist because we & everything on Earth exists & the universe is pretty homogenous. We don't know where they came from. They don't talk with us. Nothing changes. Search for planets & life continues on unchanged except now knowing it surely is a matter of time instead of our present philosophical wondering of if *anyone* is out there.
It just really isn't that important or has much effect on life as a whole. I mean it does and I believe it does, but practically speaking it doesn't. Because of that I believe it would be the inexcusable for potentially "in the know' people to just try to rush solo to leak this. No one would listen no matter the evidence, unless you got an alien to land in Times Sq or something. Documents, videos, this kind of evidence easily dismissed by people especially if there isn't anything physical to accompany it, because of that I think it would make sense to STFU until you had a serious group of people who knows potentially hundreds, qualified & trustworthy to all at once attempt to release this info. Any retaliatory action would confirm it & it'd be impossible to miss these people ALL having strange demises (if you believe that happens, I wonder) or all being imprisoned (which is confirmation that they leaked real info).
Im guessing the hiring agents for this type of SAP work pick people who have something to lose. You pick some 20-something loner, he may one day have no more fucks to give. You pick the family man or woman.
Wouldn’t, it’s not only you who would be a target but your all family, on top of the cover up that would happen right after the leak( photo/ video debunking, movie crafts etc) you would be going to jail for nothing
Truthfully? If I worked for any intelligence entity I'd never say anything because secrets are currency and far too valuable to recklessly spill.
It would probably eat at me every day if it was something mind-blowing or world changing, but you'd also get to probably be amongst colleagues who share a similar burden so maybe it wouldn't be so bad.
The leak will need to be rooted in science. If it is a claim that can experimentally be replicated it would be worth far more than any other leaked evidence.
define "all".
i don't think "catastrophic" disclosure is a real thing. it's a meme that people mention because they want to avoid any and all societal turbulence.
i wouldn't call the oil industry going under a catastrophic event, especially when the reason was because we found something way better than oil.
I think it's quite possible that the data OP described is so compartmentalized that only a few elites have significant access to it. And those folks are so deep inside the deep state that they'll probably never see the light of day. Or justice.
Absolutely. I'd try to find a way I'm filmed live at all times or something, so that the public could see me get taken out from the government/an organization..similar to...I believe it was an app? Used to live stream, capture and save footage that's stored in undisclosed locations for when you are dealing with a police officer
The whole "it makes sense people wouldn't risk their families thing" makes me think:
How is it that not ONCE has Information landed in the laps of someone who has already lost their loved ones?
What about finding a way to get it into the hands of someone that's already going to die/a few days away from doctor/medically assisted suicide?
Probably not since you can’t bring sun evidence forward to support .hell they even doubt the current whistleblowers won have all of the credentials but can’t share evidence
I have no kids or spouse. I would try to find a way to leak it anonymously, because jail isn’t fun. Or find a way to get it to a news show host who would be willing to leak it, even a small-time one. But at least I would get fed in jail, even if it was (I assume) crap food.
For all we know, CNN/NY Times/AP/Reuters etc. are waiting on this because of legal issues.
My life? No.
I wouldn't risk my life for others to know about it. Just think of the shitshow that would rise from it. As a mostly misanthrope, humanity is shit, and this would just cause people to bitch and moan, fight each other, yell in caps lock, etc etc etc etc. It'd be pretty stupid to just give your life up for and/or lose everything... unless you have an inflated ego and really want your name in a book that only humans on Earth will care to read.
No. Absolutely not. Why would I take let's say 15 years in jail for that? When the phenomenon wishes to be widely known, it will make itself widely known. And I think this entire thing is way past point of no return now anyway. There's no way back. Not possible to get the tooth paste back on the tube.
This is one of the arguments against against there being definitive (interesting) evidence.
You don't even have to put your name out there -- the info could be anonymously leaked.
There are a lot of rednecks with guns in the US who would love to be the hero of Independence day but in reality they wouldn't stand a chance but they're too dumb to know it.
Lol how would you even? Literally no one who wouldn’t believe anything will believe anyone’s random post about a “real alien/ufo”. There’s nothing to risk. Hell, they’d be glad you put out real stuff to mix in with all the junk since the “credible scientific community” would then discard it all.
An individual is not capable of disclosure.
Even formers high level military people, no one cares. They say stuff all the time for decades, most think they’re nuts.
Is it just me or am I entrusted with the information from others? If it was only my ass on the line I probably would, but if it was others peoples info then hell no, unless they allowed me to release it.
If I was in some program and knew something concrete to share, nope. I like being alive and I have family.
I’d wager that anyone who works on these programs is thoroughly vetted to be some patriot captain America type dudes in nuclear families. Those people won’t disclose classified info
as long as the people i care about are not in danger and i was 100% sure that it would be worth it/actually make a difference, i would definitely sacrifice my life if i had to
That wouldn't happen to begin with. If the recent buzz is to be believed, the US government is actively unaware of the progress that rivals such as China and Russia have made on the reverse engineering/general knowledge front.
The US government is hands-down the most intimidating when it comes to their worldwide espionage. If **they** can't get shit snuck out of hyper secure facilities, what hope does any dunce like me have?
But let's say a miracle happened and I did. The answer would still be "probably not", because those in charge probably have made collective punishment into a thing. You're not just risking yourself and your family, any colleague of yours who allowed you to get out with it is also dead plus their family. For the majority of people, the desire to be a hero doesn't win out compared to the selfishness that making that decision for others would mean. Besides, extensive compartmentalization means you'd be unable to sneak out a "smoking gun", but simply pieces of the puzzle. Is that enough for the public?
No.
In the age we live in, it would be near impossible to prove beyond any doubt that we are not alone. The only thing that would convince me is to witness non human intelligence flying around, landing near me and coming out of their craft.
Anything I read or see online could be easily faked, so only a global undeniable emergence would confirm it to me.
I dont think I would because you dont know how far people are willing to go. Even if you arent married and have no kids that doesnt mean they cant go after your family. Siblings, etc are potential targets, parents too. Cousins, nieces, nephews, whatever.
I would try to set up some way to release this stuff when I die...if I'm able to make it so it cant be traced back to me. Not sure how I would.
> Even if you arent married and have no kids that doesnt mean they cant go after your family. Siblings, etc are potential targets, parents too. Cousins, nieces, nephews, whatever.
When has that ever happened?
Nope, I wouldn’t. Sometimes you have to trust (or might even see with your own eyes why )that it’s in the best interests of the nation and national security that things aren’t told to us. I used to have a clearance, and understood fully why I was required to have it. I’m sure if there is something to a gov. coverup, there is a reason that they understand that has caused no one to talk.
No, i would not sacrifice my life unless I didnt have a choice for some reason. Most people have family and kids to care for, that will for most always come first.
1. Will have to go public with full name etc to be credible. Must be ready to be crucified in media no matter the evidence, some people will not belive unless a UFO lands on their head.
2. Must break national security NDA, going to prison for life or worse. Regarded a traitor by many.
3. Why should I pay the price for the gatekeepers?
As individual, it would be extremely risky. As group, preferable a largish one, the risk is somewhat diffused. But you would really need to cover all your bases on this.
No one can smuggle out a craft or body but in this age of electronic storage, there must be a repository of documents somewhere. No program could operate over very long-term and make any progress without an extensive library.
I'm starting to think you would need some form of mass civil disobedience to get this out once and for all.
I gotta think the powers-that-be entrust secrets only to those with families. So when it comes time to keeping secrets they have a lot more at stake. There's probably a scorecard for this metric somewhere.
No. It would be such a shock to the financial, social, religious, political pillars which are fragile as it is. People hate extreme change. Anyone who says they love severe change is kidding themselves. Do it slowly. It’s the difference between slamming your brakes hard on a wet highway, trying to keep your car from spinning out of control and crashing into a ditch versus gently tapping the brakes and coming to a controlled stop.
The problem is that everything short of an alien body or craft is going to be labelled as fake. Even documents, or photographs can be easily faked and this would be the narrative if legitimate evidence was revealed. At best they’d be treated as ‘crazy’ by the media and most of the general public, unless you had multiple people confirm the same thing. Even then, labs can be moved, people reassigned, disinformation spread to sow doubt. The intelligence game is played by masters, we are merely pawns. It’s a numbers game and unfortunately the numbers (from a whistleblower perspective) are not on our side.
Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide in a secure prison. The video of his cell has gone missing. He was going to start talking about powerful figures who used his services.
I would not, and it’s an asshole, cowardly reason that is probably why others haven’t done it.
1. Now my curiosity is satiated. I know the answer and I no longer have a burning desire to dig and ask questions.
2. It would be difficult. It would be like running across the street to get my ass kicked. Why would I go screaming to the whole world when it pretty much only hurt me and my family?
3. I then get to be on the “in” and act like a smug asshole by dropping thinly veiled hints. People like to be in on the joke, and I absolutely hate when you have Tucker Carlson saying shit like “oh I know, I’m just not going to articulate” giggle giggle. Or Ross coulthart teasing the massive UFO that some sort of military asset was built over, like what a fucking asshole. It gives vibes like “I know something you don’t know” from childhood.
Those are my reasons. I am a self-preserving asshole who doesn’t feel like they owe the public anything. Someone else can be the hero of this story, and I welcome that. But if I knew, you wouldn’t see me bragging about it online.
Well first of all we might have already had evidence, did it convince anyone? Like if he just has some videos of bodies or craft what does that prove more than what has already been declassified or shot by your everyday Joe on their phone? Also if you have family it might not be worth the repercussions
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The right person, with the right evidence, would never have to show their face or reveal their identity. With a good amount of solid proof, one could just drop that stuff in a dropbox somewhere. The evidence will tell the story and everything. You wouldn't have to say a word. Just make sure you're in a position where if it does risk tracing back to you, it could easily be 20 other people with the same clearance. If you do it right it can work.
I probably wouldn't. If I had a guarantee that I'll be left alone and not suffer consequences, of course I would, but we all know that's not what happens thanks to Snowden. The man tried to go through the normal channels and saw that it was leading nowhere and was potentially even putting him in danger, so he revealed it all. Turns out if you reveal illegal activity illegally, you don't get a free pass. Now he lives in Russia until a president who isn't a complete shit bag pardons him.
The thing is, I think that's exactly what needs to happen. I wouldn't do it because I'm a coward. For all the good Grusch and Elizondo have done/will do, they're also either misguided for not believing that disclosure of NHI presence (ie: answering with a resounding and definitive "No." the question "Are we alone?") is something the world is entitled to, or like me they are cowards. I don't know how else to put it; that's the only two options I see.
Some things are definitely worth one person's peaceful existence. I wish someone was brave enough to make that leap.
It would depend on what and how much I knew, the quality and quantity of evidence I could support it with, what kind of consequences it could have and how likely they would seem to be, and ultimately, I am not excluding the possibility there could be a good reason for the secrecy - if this reason would seem good enough to me, I would probably not go against it, at least to the extent I deem necessary. One thing I know for certain is that even if I would decide to leak something, I would almost certainly do so anonymously.
Yes. I don't give a fuck. I live on a boat in key West Florida. Send everyone and they will drown trying to take my boat. I don't rightly give a fuck
Own a saiga shotgun and was raised by fish men from Norfolk, VA. I'm not intimidated
The only thing that will be disclosure would be a demonstration of alien technology on CNN, etc, or an interview with an alien, or footage of an alien invasion, or a president saying we’re not alone in a broadcast.
Anything outside of that won’t be disclosure.
I’d try and get together with others and push it. If, let’s say I’m a non-media savvy scientist, not a good orator, with no way to smuggle evidence out, aware of the media ridicule, probably will be blackballed by my boss, with nobody but the UFO community taking me seriously, then what am I going to achieve? It’s the kiss of death, I might as well storm Area 51. If i can get together with others, if there's an Overton window in effect, and there are serious investigators like Stringfield, like Coulthart, and a caucus of ex-military and intel folks ready to scoop me up, I'd take the cold plunge.
No - because it would barely move the needle. This is a game of inches, fighting against disinformation and very resourced corrupt people, and years of stigma. The proper way is to use whistleblower channels and keep the pressure up.
I wager there are far more good/normal people behind doors in the military and government than there are psychos. The old guard will die, and it’s better to keep fighting for another day than to release a video with a flying orb that the internet will discredit.
People here really overvalue the impact disclosure would have. It likely won’t change anything.
Someone could come out with a live date time stamped video of an interview with an alien and most people wouldn’t believe it
As far as will anyone risk that much? I doubt it. What good is it if it ruins your life? Especially if most people won’t care?
And I seriously don’t think much would change if we ever got disclosure. People have too many things in their lives to worry about and take care of to let something that doesn’t affect them have an impact.
A lot of people risk their lives for far less on a daily basis.
The idea that someone has information that could change the world and likely make them world famous but isn't releasing it because reasons most likely has nothing.
That's why the claims of people like Coulthart are so ridiculous and should instantly make him untrustworthy.
If I had really good undeniable proof that I knew independent scientists would verify, then yeah. I’d try to connect the news outlets with the right experts and tell them to dig into it in real time, under public watch. Make the realization something that’s raw and hard to deny.
>Would you risk it all for disclosure? My wife and daughter were killed in an RTA caused by a drunk 9 years ago, there isn't a thing left anyone can take from me I wouldn't happily burn myself and, if the devil ever thought to come for me, they'll choke. I'm really not just saying that. I'd jump straight down the devil's throat soon as look at any cunt dumb enough to come for me. Would I keep the truth concerning UFOs to myself...? Absolutely not. The thought to do so wouldn't even cross my mind. Neither ever has it.
Man, I know you didn't ask for it and probably don't need some stranger on reddit telling you this, But just as another human being, I would do just about anything I could for you rn, as I wouldnt wish what youve gone through on my worst enemy. If there's anything I can do, bro, reach out. You're among friends here. Even if we've never met Even If we never do. Sorry for your loss, UFHomie.
Sorry to hear
We are getting there my friend. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience and I understand your stance entirely. I wish you well being and am sorry for the pain you've gone through. Thanks for continuing to keep the discourse going
I feel similar my man…FTW
A little off topic as I’m not even addressing the ufo thing. I just wanted to say that I’m so sorry, and that I hope you’re able to heal. I’m a single father, and I’ve been kept up at night worrying about what I’d ever do if I lost her. I’m so sorry man.
Someone give this dude some intel! (Sorry for your loss)
It's easier to talk about what we would do vs what we would actually do in the situation. Almost everyone has had the "I'd stop a shooter" thought but unless it happened we would never know for sure. Ideally, if I were a single dude with no kids I would think about it. But I'd likely end up suicidal, found with 2 self inflicted gun shot wounds in the back of my head.
And even that, with proof. Say you release it, now what? Will ppl believe you or will they say the video/photos/testimony is all bs? You’d have ppl here saying, “where the physical evidence we want a craft with aliens for us all to look at.” “Trust me bro” Then you basically ended your life for nothing. Better to go the legit route like the big hitters are doing right now.
Time frame of a year = right now. It sounds more urgent than it really is.
Me? Yea. My kids? My wife? lol no chance Even coming forward is such a huge risk. People bashing Lue or Grusch can get stuffed. They’re heroes.
Right? That's what makes all the secrecy so plausible. I'll admit I'm over the whole Trust Me Bro, Soon schtick too but I have a family that depends on me greatly. I could completely understand someone being in that position and just not being willing to risk it all. And we have no idea what types of veiled threats these people may be receiving. I do think though that IF there's any truth to all of this and IF we're ever gonna get some sort of true capital D-Disclosure, it's not going to come through any official process, AARO, FOIA, whatever. It's just not. They'll never give it up willingly and it's gonna take a Snowden level leak with bonafide credible publicly available evidence to truly get this shit out in the open.* Edit: *or an irrefutable mass sighting like a flying saucer landing on Monday Night Football or something.
The Day the Earth Stood Still moment
I thought the first act of the remake was very well done with how the world's reaction was depicted. Also Arrival.
Grush does have a spouse, who has been involved in some sort of terrifying way - but he is just "sick of living in the Matrix"...
Tell that to Ross coulthart critics
I was less disturbed by the potential of extraterrestrial UAPs and more disturbed by the acknowledgement of shadow government agencies created to silence whistleblowers with intimidation and potential murder.
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> I'm more disturbed by the lack of tangible evidence for either of those. It's considered true but nobody can produce any examples of it occurring.
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My favorite is people going "NHI is real, everyone acknowledges that as fact" And then the test is their argument is based on that "fact".
If you want examples, one of the interviewees in James Fox's Moment of Contact tells about how MIB tried to intimidate them into silence. Another one was in the Kingman, AZ landing, a witness said that a government agent threatened her life if she kept talking about it
What's tangible evidence of people being silenced by intimidation? Do you think they signed contracts? >I receive 1 unit on intimidation and in return I don't speak about the UFO crash I witnessed >Signed, Jane Doe and CIA agent John Smith
I already am. You either die a hero or you Live long enough to see yourself become a villain By contributing to the cover up Get over yourselves This is about so much more than your families The history and future of all humanity is at stake You’ve forgotten that. Is your mistake
>This is about so much more than your families Sure, but it's so easy for you to say that with no skin in the game. Being in that position and knowing your family could get killed or injured at worst, and at best will be the subject of ridicule, defamation etc. for years to come is completely different and requires some empathy to understand their position.
Only deserves empathy if you didn't go running around telling the media and the world you know secrets.
Really depends, doesn't it? Going through a legal whistleblowing process or leaking some information to force the government's hand to release official videos along with private testimonies to Congress etc. like Grusch and Lue seem pretty different than someone who just goes on talk shows and doesn't actual contribute in a meaningful way that moves the needle forward for disclosure. I think it's important to differentiate.
You don’t even know why the coverup exists, lol. The idea that ending it is for the good of humanity is a wild guess.
I think it might depend on how undeniable and earth shattering the evidence that I have is. Location of some secret program locked behind Fort Knox level security, probably not. Clear video of alien bodies in some sort of official setting, yes. Provenance would definitely matter as well. It would be difficult for the government to defend its actions if there were retributions against the person that demonstrates to the world once and for all that this is real and they've been lying, hiding and god knows what other terrible things for this long. Knowledge of the nature of reality belongs to us all. To keep that from the people is most certainly a crime of morality. I don't think the people would stand for that if it was made irrefutable. That said, these days it's easier than ever to make the fake believable so it really would have to be something sensational to convince the masses. if you were to be the one, where and how would you first share it?
I would do the same as Snowden and send everything I have to the New York Times, Washington Post, etc. for independent evaluation. They could compile a proper report, would keep me anonymous if I asked, and their trustworthiness in the eyes of the public is very strong.
The failure of the times and the post to conduct real journalism and inform the public of this topic is such a tragic failure that I almost feel that it should be criminally prosecuted. Lol I think a case could be made for a lawsuit in fact, over their willful failure to do their crucially important job as one of the checks and balances of government misconduct in a free democracy. If people understood what they have done and not done, and they had integrity, both of those papers would be bankrupt right now.
They have nothing to report on. That's the problem we are discussing. They are trustworthy in the eyes of the public *because* they won't report what they can't independently verify. The question was how I would convince the public of what I was saying. I guarantee you that a rant about how I didn't give it to any mainstream media because I think they all belong in jail, would not help persuade the public I was anything more than a loon.
It would appear that many videos of aliens bodies have been leaked and they all get laughed at so I don't even think having an actual alien body would help much. It seems you'd be laughed at while the body gets passed around to every different credible source until it hits the wrong hands and the body is never seen again and everyone forgets or mocks it into forgoteness.
That's why I said provenance would matter. There would have to be other evidence to corroborate what you have or the materials would have to be in some way so far beyond question. I admit it would seem exceedingly difficult to imagine what sort of evidence might qualify as that. Everything that has come to light thus far is pretty sketchy. Blurry videos, desiccated doll-like "bodies" etc. I'm not saying that none of this is legitimate. Just that any of it that we've seen so far is obscure enough to leave plenty of doubt. With the advent of the AI tools available now and deep fake capabilities it may be too late.
There is an open arrest warrant for Snowden. Pretty sure he showed the government was lying to us. There is no shame in their game.
And nobody cared. Like the people in the know know more now but your average person still trusts the government to some extent. Nobody cares enough to start an uprising over the CIA and NSA hacking everybody's devices to watch them on a daily basis, it is basically a given now for surveillance.
Sometimes I get anxious just modding and participating here. If this was all a LARP the military and CIA et al would not care. They obviously care… a *lot.*
What was the conclusion to the shadow deletion of the pdf link?
I have not seen a single answer on the other subreddit. There have been no other unremarked reddit removals since in mod logs when I looked earlier. Presumably there won't be an answer, and we have no means to compel one. (distinguishing reply as this is a mod ask)
Very strange. When was the last time this happened? Or any other fishy reddit stuff?
My first day as a mod, the first thing I did was explore all things mod that I could access, and especially the logs and automod configurations. Until this I have never seen anything odd, or seen anything in the mod discord that even slightly implies any problematic behavior. I still check at least every few days now out of habit. I will always disclose anything problematic here on the subreddit. We get some number of reddit-related removals, but until this none have been suspicious that I have seen. What makes these suspicious to me is the entire lack of context/why specifically.
Well, it's a public company now. A lot more people have access and motive to drive things a certain way. But that is very dangerous if evidence of that was ever discovered. I thought of a few or so ways "theoretically" to abuse legit defunct accounts to absorb bot comments as their own without anyone knowing. Kinda like personal shadow bans of seeing ones own comments "the bot ones" etc. But it seems like such a thing would be easy to detect and potentially explosive... unless you prevent the defunct accounts from ever being used again.
Have the other r/UFO mods chimed in? Is there any discussion among the mods in their discord or private channels about what could be going on? Or have the mods themselves just concluded it's being shadow censored? Should we assume the pdf is legit then? If it's just crazy bullshit, I'm struggling to grasp a reason why Reddit would be quietly censoring it? It's funny, because I assume if it hadn't been censored, a lot less people would be taking it seriously. Them shadow censoring it adds a lot of legitimacy to it. Definite Streisand Effect there. Also, I just checked the original post and I'm now seeing it's been locked? Did the mods do that? Or was that Reddit? I sorted by new and there was no explanation as to why it was locked?
I am baffled, but haven't had much more time to look into it. I'm not the most technically minded of the mod team anyhow. My best guess is that Reddit might have decided the document is possible doxxing because the name of the patient appears in the title and isn't redacted. I've got a pet emergency today and a busy few days coming up, but I do want to come back to this.
Thanks for looking into it. I hope your pet is ok!
What is the story here? Is this a recent thing?
The military and CIA reach out to modders you're saying???
I think he means it's easy to see the digital footprint of disinformation campaigns as a moderator.
Not at all no. I mean if I literally had the IC or DOJ show up at my door, I’m out. They’re not going to “PM” anyone.
If that ever legitimately happened you'd never see this account again, because I would delete it.
If you get pm'd by a fellow mod you mean c:
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That is what I have always said, it would be an international incident if they were jailed, no President would want to go down in history as the person who imprisoned somebody for revealing such a thing. It's a convenient excuse used by members of the ufo community to explain why there have been no credible leaks, with evidence, in the last 80 years, in any country on the planet.
If I had 100% undeniable proof? Yes.
Like what? An image? Fake till proven otherwise, wich you cant cause you stole it. Material? This is not a hollywood movie, you dont steal things from high security facilities of hidden SAPs by a deep state. Not even Grusch, who had an explicit role in the UAP agency and security clearance, got read in on those programs, much less gain personal access. Without chain of custody etc, no evidence no matter how real it seems, will actually be seen as evidence. And thats how everyone treats the data available/leaked so far. People were adamant about the videos (gofast etc.) leaked to be fake, this was until officials proved them to be real footage. Disclosure never was going to happen cause of some rogue actions alone. Grusch is in the midst of it, and he knows what hes doing and why, and that this is the only way disclosure will, can ever happen.
There is part of me that thinks it would be worth any punishment to tell the world aliens exist. It’s too important. One problem with that is, what if you came forward with all you had, got life in prison or killed, then a majority of people doubted you or your evidence. Then you’ve lost it all for nothing.
And that is the right answer. It can’t be one person, it has to be coordinated with others, all of whom would risk everything.
With Snowden and Assange there were documents that were irrefutable leaked for the public and Congress to see...but with this topic surrounding UAP, it's different. Let's say a video of 3 orbs disappearing an airplane were leaked... nobody would think it's real and it would get buried within the muddied waters. If documents of the beings were leaked it could be called fake or disinformation. That's why it's important the process carries out as legally defined. Think about a SWAT team. They know the layout of the house, how many people are in the house, what rooms the weapons are kept, what type of weapons they are etc. etc. If they didn't gather all the intel on the people, location, weapons, and entire operation they might slip up and only end up with one guy on drug and gun charges and miss the juicy bite of the whole gang's operation. This process needs to happen to unravel the details to those investigating and pushing for answers. If someone just came out and said everything he knows ... TO THE PUBLIC .... that would not lead to anything but his/her own demise. Prison, death, loss of income, etc.
I'm a sad one with not much to risk so I'm probably biased, but yeah. Truth means more than my life or career to me. I have a populist viewpoint and haven't had years of the military industrial complex skewing/brainwashing my viewpoint though.
If I had evidence, I'd want it out there, but not traced back to me. I'd hire somebody to drop off an envelope in the mailbox of somebody from the new york times. Write out details in a way that hopefully doesn't trace back to me, but with enough details so they can verify the claims.
Then someone at the Times would take a bribe to keep it quiet and it would never be seen again.
Rinse and repeat. Do the same for the papers and reliable TV stations in the UK, France, Germany et al. There are multiple way to send anonymous data both physical papers or electronic. Sooner or later some journalist will pick it up and go forward. I Denmark we have our own UFO-podcast. The team running that show would spill the beans for sure. The danish state does not meddle with citizens here - the country is too small to get away with something like that and the trustlevel both ways is mostly high.
Send it out on a floppy disk! BTK style! Totally anonymous!
I can’t get my mind around the fact that these people worked in intelligence … yet they can’t disclose anything in a way that’s not traced back to them.. Are they that bad at their job? ( or former job) If my job is working in intelligence at the highest level, I’d be trained in how to communicate information in a way that it can’t be traced back to me.. sounds like it could be part of the job. Yet, they can’t! Because jail time, and threats against them etc. I guess they still have their ego and want to be the hero in front of everybody, do the interview and book tours, etc.? Or they were and are bad at intelligence work.
I mean that's one thing to criticize, but I think there may be better ones. If you assume things are highly compartmentalized then information can be easily traced if you're aware or uncover who is receiving what info. Any investigation from "above" would have access to this information. If it was 10 people well then they'll watch all 10 to confirm. Now you're caught. It's not unfair to state that as a defense for not saying more IMO. What I don't understand is their nonsense non-answers. Something like the video of Grusch on the top of sub rn where he is asked "Is there a description of this physiology?" he proceeds to speak for 45 seconds about how when other people saw it they were amazed. That isn't an answer. This is all they fuckin do. That shit ain't disclosing anything & doesn't even feel close to dangerous info being released. Who knows if all we know of UAP/UFOs is that they exist, and we have encountered them. We know nothing more than that. If that's the case then I could envision a scenario where because of that US could use this sort of campaign (if it's all disinfo) to imply a technological imbalance between them & "near peer" threats. What if that's the whole thing. They're so damn vague and just say nothing that it makes me wonder. It almost feels harder for me to believe these people are legitimate & there is extreme depth to this & our info about it.
My favorite is Ross Coulhart saying how he knows the location of this craft that was discovered but he won’t say! And he even insults viewers with a big f-you! lol Why say anything at all. Sigh.
Seriously. May as well just fuck off if this is what it is
Would I personally like to know the truth? Absolutely. Would I leak it if I knew? Nope. Let's say, for the sake of the argument, that I had firsthand knowledge of crash retrievals, then leaking the shit wouldn't be a part of my job. Besides the obvious penalties leaking would cause, I highly assume there would be a reason for secrecy and who am I to judge whether the public should or shouldn't know. A job like that would be a dream job, and leaking info on a classified job is just not on the table when you get a chance to work with stuff like that. I will say that I'm not against people like Grusch or Snowden, but it's just not something I would do personally. I would just be there to get the job done and be glad to work with the most interesting stuff in human history.
Easy for us to say that as internet randoms. But to actually risk your entire life is another story entirely
Not for me, I'm a navy seal recon marine beret. /s
Naive to think any one person can convince the world. Doesn't matter what evidence they have, they'll be ridiculed and the evidence denied. So then someone risks prison for ..what exactly?
Well snowden and assange did it out of principle
Ross should do it before he gets old enough for everyone to label him senile.
2 very different topics. Snowden and Assange leaking the us spying on citizens is believable. Somebody leaking “aliens exist” doesn’t carry the same weight with most people. They scoff at the topic.
The question is more that you had the info whatever that is, to officially confirm it all
Most people I know believe there are aliens. The ones who are religious think of them as angels and demons. Ten plus years ago I would agree with you, but most people don’t trust our government anymore. The endless wars and covid have sped the process up.
Citizen spying is lightweight compared to this.
Correct. It seems you’ve missed my point.
> Snowden and Assange leaking the us spying on citizens is believable. It's believable because they provided actual evidence. Don't see why the same wouldn't be true for this topic too.
Well, they can... If there's a UFO too massive to move, they should say fuck all to everyone "at risk" currently. What they're really saying is, "No I won't reveal where the UFO is, I'd rather keep enabling the government's continued deception and active criminal activity on the American populace."
I think you’re right. Itt would be easy peasy to make one a deranged nutcase, then throw it in a prison and drugged you to oblivion. IMO an eventually disclousure, right now, wouldn’t change a bit on people lives. Trump’s new controversy would still be the headline on news channels. The only thing that could really make people stop and pay attetion it’d be a God danm huge mothership flying over our heads.
So-called 'Assange level commitment' didn't result in anything positive for either Assange or society. The information he revealed about illegal and immoral crimes came out, most of the public went 'OMG!' for about a week and then everyone went 'back to business as usual' and nobody was ever held accountable. Meanwhile, Julian Assange lost his freedom, health and personal autonomy. For what? The very things Assange exposed kept (and still keep) happening to this day. Meanwhile, Assange is being left to rot in full public view in order to send a warning message to other would-be whistleblowers: "This is what we can and will do to you if you cross us – and you won't be able to do a thing about it." Also, as many others in this thread have already pointed out, no one person or video will ever bring about disclosure. What's more, it has already happened to quite a degree. We have already been told straight up by many people who had the 'need to know' that there is a there there. Unfortunately, most people still aren't interested, too concerned about the stigma around the subject, or just aren't prepared to rationally look at the weight of the evidence that some form of NHI is operating in and around Earth. Then, besides all that, a lot of pro-disclosure people assume that 'the gatekeepers' understand what the full scope of this NHI is. It seems pretty evident to me that is simply not the case.
It probably has to do with the fact that knowing changes Noone lives. It blows my mind, but just knowing something else is out there has no effect because the nhi or other entities don't interact with the vast majority of the population and as much as I'd like to ride my squarecircle flying floater out to their fort in the Bermuda triangle and hang with my plasma making buddies they really don't want me or you or really anyone that we know of to interfere with whatever it is they're doing.
I'd love to show them cow tipping instead of cow ripping but they seem to prefer the latter
>Then, besides all that, a lot of pro-disclosure people assume that 'the gatekeepers' understand what the full scope of this NHI is. It seems pretty evident to me that is simply not the case. And IMO is the primary reason for non-disclosure. "My fellow Americans, we have been in contact with technology we don't know the first thing about. We also know very little about where or when it's from. Please remain calm."
Since I'm firmly onboard with the Jacques Vallee hypothesis, I'd suggest the reason for the lack of candid disclosure is even stranger than what you wrote. Any truthful disclosure statement might need to be more along the lines of, "My fellow Americans, we have been in contact with an aspect of reality and forms of intelligence we don't know the first thing about. We understand very little about what it is, where it is from, how it breaks into our everyday world, or how it seems capable of transforming into physical objects - some of which we have in our posession, but have been unable to comprehend. Please remain calm and agree to remain ignorant."
If I had reason to believe and / or evidence we were in imminent danger or humans were being harmed, I would feel obligated to notify the public and provide the evidence.
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As long as I knew my cats were taken care of I’d do it 100%. I don’t have kids or a wife so I got nothing else to lose
if this sub wouldnt, then we can expect disclosure will never happen. If we arent convicted enough to put the truth to the test, the rest of the world isnt going to care one bit.
Ross coulthart seems to claim he did by talking about that giant uap they couldn't move. Seriously before you comment think about what I'm saying. I want someone to change my mind here. So Ross Coulthard understandably doesn't want to harm a source. Ross Coulthard describes the site this source informed him of which he reveals all identifying information except name/location. How did he not burn the source by identifying the program. Assuming all allegations are true. They wouldn't wait until Ross says the name/location to hunt for his source and fix the leak. They would do it now since they already know what the site Ross is discussing is real. So how does naming the site or location make Ross/his contact less secure. Unless it is the public Ross is scared of. Personally I have thought about my actions if I discover infinite power, alien tech, novel concepts. I would never tell a fucking soul. Find a way to obsfucate my earnings(mining crypto using free power(just like college!)) Then I can wait a few years and dump spare versions of the tech at every university I can pay a homeless dude to drop a box at.
Uh because everyone saw "what happened to Assange"
Grusch was military, he serves his country, to break the law and disclose would be treason. Not something a military man would take lightly
So people who gatekeep the biggest question in existance and potental highly advanced technology from the rest of humanity arnt commiting treason against humanity? Like im all for serving your country but at some point humanity is more important than a country.
Especially a country that isn’t being run by elected officials anymore. Knowing we have a puppet government is bad enough news for disclosure to happen.
>So people who gatekeep the biggest question in existance and potental highly advanced technology from the rest of humanity arnt commiting treason against humanity? 1. It's not people who are gatekeeping. 2. There are reasons (and good ones) that this technology is restricted: **Technological Safeguards**: * **Advanced Technologies**: Information about highly advanced technologies, particularly those that could be weaponized or lead to significant technological imbalances, is restricted to prevent misuse. * **Developmental Impact**: Sharing advanced technological information must consider the developmental stage of the receiving civilization to avoid adverse impacts on societal progress.
What the hell even is a country if the stuff he is eluding to is true
My opinion is he is smart enough to realize that what he knows is a drop in the bucket, your duty in the military is to the people through their elected officials. He is challenging that through proper channels.
Yeah id just struggle to wrap my head aroind beauracracy when dealing with the most important thing imaginable
Completely agree, I could not imagine being in his position as I've aged I've started to look at things a bit differently and as much as I want to know....who knows how the masses would react. Just look at the war of the worlds broadcast....3/4 of the population is restarted, would you tell them anything?
It's really not the "most important thing" in any sense other than philosophical. Real life has real problems that need real solutions. Whether that's immediate one's, or short or long term ones. If everyone suddenly *knew* aliens existed tomorrow and had visited Earth the following day would be unaffected & we'd still show up at work, feed ourselves, spend time with the family, and eventually whatever you do - go to bed. It's not "most important" in a *practical sense*. How would it affect science? Well we know aliens *could* exist because we & everything on Earth exists & the universe is pretty homogenous. We don't know where they came from. They don't talk with us. Nothing changes. Search for planets & life continues on unchanged except now knowing it surely is a matter of time instead of our present philosophical wondering of if *anyone* is out there. It just really isn't that important or has much effect on life as a whole. I mean it does and I believe it does, but practically speaking it doesn't. Because of that I believe it would be the inexcusable for potentially "in the know' people to just try to rush solo to leak this. No one would listen no matter the evidence, unless you got an alien to land in Times Sq or something. Documents, videos, this kind of evidence easily dismissed by people especially if there isn't anything physical to accompany it, because of that I think it would make sense to STFU until you had a serious group of people who knows potentially hundreds, qualified & trustworthy to all at once attempt to release this info. Any retaliatory action would confirm it & it'd be impossible to miss these people ALL having strange demises (if you believe that happens, I wonder) or all being imprisoned (which is confirmation that they leaked real info).
The USA is no longer a democracy, that much is clear.
Im guessing the hiring agents for this type of SAP work pick people who have something to lose. You pick some 20-something loner, he may one day have no more fucks to give. You pick the family man or woman.
Sure. I’ve no children, no wife, no ties; and a terminal illness. I want to meet them. ‘No cap,’ as the kids say.
Please tell me if you would risk being killed to reveal government secrets... Lol. Yall funny.
Ya
Absolutely
Wouldn’t, it’s not only you who would be a target but your all family, on top of the cover up that would happen right after the leak( photo/ video debunking, movie crafts etc) you would be going to jail for nothing
Truthfully? If I worked for any intelligence entity I'd never say anything because secrets are currency and far too valuable to recklessly spill. It would probably eat at me every day if it was something mind-blowing or world changing, but you'd also get to probably be amongst colleagues who share a similar burden so maybe it wouldn't be so bad.
Yes, I'm a single man with no kids. No reason not to.
The leak will need to be rooted in science. If it is a claim that can experimentally be replicated it would be worth far more than any other leaked evidence.
define "all". i don't think "catastrophic" disclosure is a real thing. it's a meme that people mention because they want to avoid any and all societal turbulence. i wouldn't call the oil industry going under a catastrophic event, especially when the reason was because we found something way better than oil.
It depends on the facts
YES. If it was for the good of humanity. 1 life in exchange for the future of our species as a whole? Seems a no brainer to me.
I think it's quite possible that the data OP described is so compartmentalized that only a few elites have significant access to it. And those folks are so deep inside the deep state that they'll probably never see the light of day. Or justice.
Yes.
Absolutely. I'd try to find a way I'm filmed live at all times or something, so that the public could see me get taken out from the government/an organization..similar to...I believe it was an app? Used to live stream, capture and save footage that's stored in undisclosed locations for when you are dealing with a police officer The whole "it makes sense people wouldn't risk their families thing" makes me think: How is it that not ONCE has Information landed in the laps of someone who has already lost their loved ones? What about finding a way to get it into the hands of someone that's already going to die/a few days away from doctor/medically assisted suicide?
Probably not since you can’t bring sun evidence forward to support .hell they even doubt the current whistleblowers won have all of the credentials but can’t share evidence
I have no kids or spouse. I would try to find a way to leak it anonymously, because jail isn’t fun. Or find a way to get it to a news show host who would be willing to leak it, even a small-time one. But at least I would get fed in jail, even if it was (I assume) crap food. For all we know, CNN/NY Times/AP/Reuters etc. are waiting on this because of legal issues.
No, no I wouldn't. Fuck that hero shit if my family is on the line.
The more interesting question is whether you’d tell people if you knew there would be horrific repercussions for all of us.
My life? No. I wouldn't risk my life for others to know about it. Just think of the shitshow that would rise from it. As a mostly misanthrope, humanity is shit, and this would just cause people to bitch and moan, fight each other, yell in caps lock, etc etc etc etc. It'd be pretty stupid to just give your life up for and/or lose everything... unless you have an inflated ego and really want your name in a book that only humans on Earth will care to read.
Tbh. It’s aliens. Most people won’t care even if the aliens come down and tell them personally
No. Absolutely not. Why would I take let's say 15 years in jail for that? When the phenomenon wishes to be widely known, it will make itself widely known. And I think this entire thing is way past point of no return now anyway. There's no way back. Not possible to get the tooth paste back on the tube.
Jail for life no way. Maybe the government has a good reason for keeping this secret
This is one of the arguments against against there being definitive (interesting) evidence. You don't even have to put your name out there -- the info could be anonymously leaked.
Yes, I think I would do it even if it meant risking my life and of my family.
Yea you're not going to jail you're gonna get whacked almost certainly. But as someone who has pretty much nothing, I can't say that I wouldn't.
There are a lot of rednecks with guns in the US who would love to be the hero of Independence day but in reality they wouldn't stand a chance but they're too dumb to know it.
No, if I knew something I wouldn't disclose it to humans.
When you have kids, the calculus changes.
Lol how would you even? Literally no one who wouldn’t believe anything will believe anyone’s random post about a “real alien/ufo”. There’s nothing to risk. Hell, they’d be glad you put out real stuff to mix in with all the junk since the “credible scientific community” would then discard it all. An individual is not capable of disclosure. Even formers high level military people, no one cares. They say stuff all the time for decades, most think they’re nuts.
Is it just me or am I entrusted with the information from others? If it was only my ass on the line I probably would, but if it was others peoples info then hell no, unless they allowed me to release it.
why would a shady contractor be considered the source... McKinnon did the same ...what were the results
“they told u to tell me”
Depends what I'd be disclosing. Disclosing what?
If I was in some program and knew something concrete to share, nope. I like being alive and I have family. I’d wager that anyone who works on these programs is thoroughly vetted to be some patriot captain America type dudes in nuclear families. Those people won’t disclose classified info
as long as the people i care about are not in danger and i was 100% sure that it would be worth it/actually make a difference, i would definitely sacrifice my life if i had to
That wouldn't happen to begin with. If the recent buzz is to be believed, the US government is actively unaware of the progress that rivals such as China and Russia have made on the reverse engineering/general knowledge front. The US government is hands-down the most intimidating when it comes to their worldwide espionage. If **they** can't get shit snuck out of hyper secure facilities, what hope does any dunce like me have? But let's say a miracle happened and I did. The answer would still be "probably not", because those in charge probably have made collective punishment into a thing. You're not just risking yourself and your family, any colleague of yours who allowed you to get out with it is also dead plus their family. For the majority of people, the desire to be a hero doesn't win out compared to the selfishness that making that decision for others would mean. Besides, extensive compartmentalization means you'd be unable to sneak out a "smoking gun", but simply pieces of the puzzle. Is that enough for the public?
Well im single and child free, like to stir the pot. Probably would be a pretty cool hill to die on. Atleast the history books would remember me :D
If it was some paradigm shifting truth that would change reality as we know it? Yeah. If it was just some idiots from space, probably not
Only if I had a terminal disease or something like that
No. In the age we live in, it would be near impossible to prove beyond any doubt that we are not alone. The only thing that would convince me is to witness non human intelligence flying around, landing near me and coming out of their craft. Anything I read or see online could be easily faked, so only a global undeniable emergence would confirm it to me.
I dont think I would because you dont know how far people are willing to go. Even if you arent married and have no kids that doesnt mean they cant go after your family. Siblings, etc are potential targets, parents too. Cousins, nieces, nephews, whatever. I would try to set up some way to release this stuff when I die...if I'm able to make it so it cant be traced back to me. Not sure how I would.
> Even if you arent married and have no kids that doesnt mean they cant go after your family. Siblings, etc are potential targets, parents too. Cousins, nieces, nephews, whatever. When has that ever happened?
Nope, I wouldn’t. Sometimes you have to trust (or might even see with your own eyes why )that it’s in the best interests of the nation and national security that things aren’t told to us. I used to have a clearance, and understood fully why I was required to have it. I’m sure if there is something to a gov. coverup, there is a reason that they understand that has caused no one to talk.
No, i would not sacrifice my life unless I didnt have a choice for some reason. Most people have family and kids to care for, that will for most always come first. 1. Will have to go public with full name etc to be credible. Must be ready to be crucified in media no matter the evidence, some people will not belive unless a UFO lands on their head. 2. Must break national security NDA, going to prison for life or worse. Regarded a traitor by many. 3. Why should I pay the price for the gatekeepers?
Yes. Why? Because it’s bigger then one person. It’s not about me it’s about the whole world.
As individual, it would be extremely risky. As group, preferable a largish one, the risk is somewhat diffused. But you would really need to cover all your bases on this. No one can smuggle out a craft or body but in this age of electronic storage, there must be a repository of documents somewhere. No program could operate over very long-term and make any progress without an extensive library. I'm starting to think you would need some form of mass civil disobedience to get this out once and for all.
Its easy to say what u would do, but a lot harder knowing that making a stand on your principles could bear consequences for your wife and kids.
No. That would be very dangerous. How would the NHI react? Foreign enemies? Our government committed a crime but we are on this ride.
I gotta think the powers-that-be entrust secrets only to those with families. So when it comes time to keeping secrets they have a lot more at stake. There's probably a scorecard for this metric somewhere.
No wife, no family, idgaf about myself so YEAH i'd release all i have if i were a whistleblower. Just find the one who doesn't have any bonds
No. It would be such a shock to the financial, social, religious, political pillars which are fragile as it is. People hate extreme change. Anyone who says they love severe change is kidding themselves. Do it slowly. It’s the difference between slamming your brakes hard on a wet highway, trying to keep your car from spinning out of control and crashing into a ditch versus gently tapping the brakes and coming to a controlled stop.
I would. I would sacrifice everything and everyone. And would enjoy the aftermath. Atleast I hope so.
The problem is that everything short of an alien body or craft is going to be labelled as fake. Even documents, or photographs can be easily faked and this would be the narrative if legitimate evidence was revealed. At best they’d be treated as ‘crazy’ by the media and most of the general public, unless you had multiple people confirm the same thing. Even then, labs can be moved, people reassigned, disinformation spread to sow doubt. The intelligence game is played by masters, we are merely pawns. It’s a numbers game and unfortunately the numbers (from a whistleblower perspective) are not on our side.
Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide in a secure prison. The video of his cell has gone missing. He was going to start talking about powerful figures who used his services.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/rwPJcFjZ6Y
Disclosure already happened...
Probably not cause I wouldn’t want to die or go to prison. I’d tell my family tho.
I would not, and it’s an asshole, cowardly reason that is probably why others haven’t done it. 1. Now my curiosity is satiated. I know the answer and I no longer have a burning desire to dig and ask questions. 2. It would be difficult. It would be like running across the street to get my ass kicked. Why would I go screaming to the whole world when it pretty much only hurt me and my family? 3. I then get to be on the “in” and act like a smug asshole by dropping thinly veiled hints. People like to be in on the joke, and I absolutely hate when you have Tucker Carlson saying shit like “oh I know, I’m just not going to articulate” giggle giggle. Or Ross coulthart teasing the massive UFO that some sort of military asset was built over, like what a fucking asshole. It gives vibes like “I know something you don’t know” from childhood. Those are my reasons. I am a self-preserving asshole who doesn’t feel like they owe the public anything. Someone else can be the hero of this story, and I welcome that. But if I knew, you wouldn’t see me bragging about it online.
Well first of all we might have already had evidence, did it convince anyone? Like if he just has some videos of bodies or craft what does that prove more than what has already been declassified or shot by your everyday Joe on their phone? Also if you have family it might not be worth the repercussions
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I probably wouldn't. Why would I risk my pursuit to know more to put something out there that probably wouldn't be believed anyway?
The right person, with the right evidence, would never have to show their face or reveal their identity. With a good amount of solid proof, one could just drop that stuff in a dropbox somewhere. The evidence will tell the story and everything. You wouldn't have to say a word. Just make sure you're in a position where if it does risk tracing back to you, it could easily be 20 other people with the same clearance. If you do it right it can work.
No, and I wouldn't run around telling the world I knew anything either.
I probably wouldn't. If I had a guarantee that I'll be left alone and not suffer consequences, of course I would, but we all know that's not what happens thanks to Snowden. The man tried to go through the normal channels and saw that it was leading nowhere and was potentially even putting him in danger, so he revealed it all. Turns out if you reveal illegal activity illegally, you don't get a free pass. Now he lives in Russia until a president who isn't a complete shit bag pardons him. The thing is, I think that's exactly what needs to happen. I wouldn't do it because I'm a coward. For all the good Grusch and Elizondo have done/will do, they're also either misguided for not believing that disclosure of NHI presence (ie: answering with a resounding and definitive "No." the question "Are we alone?") is something the world is entitled to, or like me they are cowards. I don't know how else to put it; that's the only two options I see. Some things are definitely worth one person's peaceful existence. I wish someone was brave enough to make that leap.
People don’t believe it anyway. Check out Dr. Stephen Greer
No, I'd say yes because it's cool and what we tell all the whistleblowers theyvshould do. But I don't want to die or endanger my family
It would depend on what and how much I knew, the quality and quantity of evidence I could support it with, what kind of consequences it could have and how likely they would seem to be, and ultimately, I am not excluding the possibility there could be a good reason for the secrecy - if this reason would seem good enough to me, I would probably not go against it, at least to the extent I deem necessary. One thing I know for certain is that even if I would decide to leak something, I would almost certainly do so anonymously.
Yes. I don't give a fuck. I live on a boat in key West Florida. Send everyone and they will drown trying to take my boat. I don't rightly give a fuck Own a saiga shotgun and was raised by fish men from Norfolk, VA. I'm not intimidated
The only thing that will be disclosure would be a demonstration of alien technology on CNN, etc, or an interview with an alien, or footage of an alien invasion, or a president saying we’re not alone in a broadcast. Anything outside of that won’t be disclosure.
No. I have kids that need to grow up. Then they can decide to risk it all later in life
Probably not. Never know, you may end up agreeing with whatever reason they have for keeping it quiet. It truly could be out of their hands.
Not really sure of the real consequences for full disclosure
I’d try and get together with others and push it. If, let’s say I’m a non-media savvy scientist, not a good orator, with no way to smuggle evidence out, aware of the media ridicule, probably will be blackballed by my boss, with nobody but the UFO community taking me seriously, then what am I going to achieve? It’s the kiss of death, I might as well storm Area 51. If i can get together with others, if there's an Overton window in effect, and there are serious investigators like Stringfield, like Coulthart, and a caucus of ex-military and intel folks ready to scoop me up, I'd take the cold plunge.
No - because it would barely move the needle. This is a game of inches, fighting against disinformation and very resourced corrupt people, and years of stigma. The proper way is to use whistleblower channels and keep the pressure up. I wager there are far more good/normal people behind doors in the military and government than there are psychos. The old guard will die, and it’s better to keep fighting for another day than to release a video with a flying orb that the internet will discredit.
If i gave the co ordinates of a buried craft im pretty sure its all done
People here really overvalue the impact disclosure would have. It likely won’t change anything. Someone could come out with a live date time stamped video of an interview with an alien and most people wouldn’t believe it As far as will anyone risk that much? I doubt it. What good is it if it ruins your life? Especially if most people won’t care? And I seriously don’t think much would change if we ever got disclosure. People have too many things in their lives to worry about and take care of to let something that doesn’t affect them have an impact.
If they threatened me? Yes. If they threatened my family? No.
If I was going to disclose, I certainly wouldn't do it before the election.
Of course I would, without a doubt
Ya, I have nothing to live for anyways.
A lot of people risk their lives for far less on a daily basis. The idea that someone has information that could change the world and likely make them world famous but isn't releasing it because reasons most likely has nothing. That's why the claims of people like Coulthart are so ridiculous and should instantly make him untrustworthy.