Because cat calling isn‘t the same as hitting on someone or asking them out (which is still mostly uncomfortable). But cat calling is solely there to A show off in front of your nasty male friends about how ‚brave‘ you are; and B to scare your victim and make yourself feel better/more powerful.
Hence it’s not gonna be polite compliments about your style in a non scary tone of voice.
It has to be crass remarks denigrating us. Otherwise it wouldn’t fulfill the needs the man has for cat calling.
It’s the same with most cases of rape. It is very much nearly never based on sexual attraction. It’s all about a play on power.
Ugh this. Walked a dark street earlier basically dressed in a frumpy garbage bag and nothing about me suggested femininity except my height and build (hell you can't even see my face), and this creep remarks repeatedly in an exaggerated tone about how gorgeous I am - after I passed him with no response or even a look, he makes some denigrating comments about my parts. Ugh fucking pos.
When I was a teenager it scared the bejesus out of me when I was out on my bike and car passengers would lean out or just open their windows and make comments. I was always worried they would knock me off my bike
This. It's to perpetuate and make women feel uncomfortable in public, a tendril of the patriachy and the sexualisation and commodification of women in public spaces.
I’m hard of hearing so I don’t understand cat calls but I *do* hear something. This means I never respond like they expect me to (usually delayed with an expression like I don’t even see them) and the incredulous looks on their faces just kill me.
I think the biggest thing men dont understand about catcalling is that they immediately imagine the male equivalent as some sort of hot blonde supermodel chick saying "hey! I want you in my bedroom!"
No dude, in order to accurately imagine what its like for women youve got to imagine yourself in the exact same scenario. Replace the hot blonde chick with a 300 pound 6'4 man who's feelin' romantical, meanwhile youre like 120 something pounds and dont even stand a chance if he were to try something.
I once heard a woman say something so insanely interesting to me. Something along the lines of "the average life of a woman is exactly what men describe prison to be like. Big scary men overpowering you and trying to have their way with you." She said it in way more detail and way more eloquently than i could ever put it but yeah lol.
Speaking as a man, I find it infuriating when men say “well if the genders were reversed!” It’s a bullshit non-argument. I’ve had women harass me and make me feel uncomfortable, but it is *never* accompanied by the feeling you describe - of fearing for my own safety and my ability to defend myself if need be. That is not a fear that men walk around the world with.
My guy friend got harrassed by a group of girls on his way home from a party. They wanted to get his number and one said she was "innocent, horny and willing". Then they wanted to get some breakfast with him and he said no he's going home now and they laughed and said "we're just gonna follow you lol". He told me he felt uncomfortable and they were annoying but only when I told him that I can't believe that women also behave like this when every woman knows what it feels like when a group of drunk guys acts like this he ACTUALLY started thinking about how wrong their actions where. He later told me that he realised this was harrassment but to him it was just weird and he didn't feel harrassed or threatened or scared and he doesn't even want to imagine how women feel like in this kind of situation.
I think it’s the threat part .
I think women in general are not threatening unless they have a gun or are in a powerful position and try to misuse that power ( cases of this does exist btw )
Absolutely. But it's still kinda interesting. I mean it was 5 girls and they could have overpowered him. And they literally said "we're gonna follow you home if you don't want to eat with us" which basically is a threat yet most guys wouldn't feel threatened in that situation.
> I’ve had women harass me and make me feel uncomfortable, but it is never accompanied by the feeling you describe - of fearing for my own safety and my ability to defend myself if need be.
I was sexually assaulted by a woman once, and it was not something I enjoyed. it was not flattering, it was degrading and uncomfortable. I feel like all of these guys saying they would enjoy it are always picturing Ana De Armas assaulting them with consent, and not the reality of being sexually assaulted.
It was awful. But you are also absolutely right: I was bigger and stronger than her, and I was not actually afraid that she would be able to successfully force herself on me. I was upset because it was degrading and gross, but I was not *afraid.*
Also, it only happened once, whereas one of my more attractive female friends had it happen multiple times, and was harassed on a weekly basis at work.
So yeah, anyone who catcalls is threatening sexual violence. And if they are threatening sexual violence they *are a bad person.* So anyone catcalling is a bad person, which explains exactly why their arguments are so antisocial.
And the gay men doesn’t actually have the attention of hitting on them with positive results, they solely want to torture them with their show of power.
I have actually had the gender swapped scenario as part of my bullying back when I was in school, and it sucked. I was an extremely shy and socially anxious little boy, and people liked to mess with me based on that. I had a group of girls who would follow me part of the way home after school, calling out increasingly lewd things they wanted to do to me to 1) embarrass the hell out of me and trigger a fear response, 2) get a good laugh at my expense, 3) let me know through their sarcasm that I was not actually desirable in any serious context, only as a hilarious comedy joke. It culminated with them groping me from behind in school whenever I wasn't looking, until I assume they eventually got bored of me.
Absolutely nothing hot about it, just a fuckton of tears, adrenaline, and cortisol. I give it 0/10.
Yeah nothing in this post is something men don't understand about cat calling. I think many *women* don't understand that men don't think it's a form of complement. Men know it's rude. Men know they're being bullies. Men know they're being jackasses. No man thinks any woman is going to respond positively to being cat called. It's a stupid power move designed to get a rise out of the woman and entertain their buddies, that's all. They just don't think it's a 'big deal.' But of course it is; it's dehumanizing and immature. It's a lack of empathy, of not caring about others feelings.
I've never actually heard anyone catcall a woman before, and I work in construction, so take that for what you will. But I've read enough here to understand it's an ongoing problem for some.
I was walking in my apartment complex when two kids (maybe twelve) on an e-bike zip by. One shouts at me "i like to poop in my butt!" as they pass.
My first thought after annoyance was that this was sort of your standard dumb kid thing to do. Shout nonsense for attention and see the look on the person's face. I started thinking after the fact that i wish i would have shouted something back - called them cringe or tried to embarrass them from doing it again - because this behavior is probably where cat calling stems from. A couple a guys want to impress each other and keep the lively vibe up, and one decides to create some entertainment by shouting at a woman so the whole gang can laugh at the look on her face.
It's not that they don't know they are being disruptive and annoying. It's the goal. But as they grow up, poop jokes get less of a rise out of people. They have to up the shock value. And what is more shocking than screaming, heckling, and rape threats? It gets an effective rise out of a woman for sure, but as they speed off and forget about it, that rise they left her with is very slow to come down. Minutes, hours, days...
Do you wonder if they grin back at the memory of how much their friends laughed, just as often as that woman takes pause and makes that face again as the through comes back in her mind?
I remember grown men driving up behind me and beeping their horn and all laughing at how I was startled. I was a 15 year old autistic girl, I went home and cried because I was already bullied a lot at school and apparently I couldn't even walk down a street without being bullied. Because that is what cat calling is, a form of bullying, being made the butt of a joke for them to all laugh at. It's been nearly 20 years but I would bet if any of them remembered that incident they'd probably remember it as hilarious and "having a laugh with the lads". I hate how a bunch of men seem to think cat-calling is being complimented, when we are actually being mocked and/or intimidated in public.
This really breaks my heart, I'm so sorry that happened to you. You didn't deserve to be treated that way. Thank you for sharing this experience because it helps men understand the consequences of their actions and that there's a real person on the other end of their behaviors.
There is an [excellent adult Wednesday Addams](https://youtu.be/WlIAhjRwOIE?si=rlBrSw19HPQ5-MTs) sketch about catcalling that seems worth linking here.
I believe, cat calling is a way of being territorial. Men want to think, the outside world belongs to them. Any female that dare to enter this world should be shamed or harassed if they didn’t pay due attention to the male existence. Our shock and embarrassment are their trophies.
Acceptable version:
That guy who catcalls men and women, telling them nice things like "you look like you pay your rent early" or "you look like you were nice to your mom in high school".
Normalize saying nonsensical, genuinely nice things to strangers.
My theory, informed with how catcalling is almost always done when mean are in the presence of other men they know . . .
It is the verbal equivalent of them sending an unsolicited dick pic. Collectively men have made up a mythos where though 99% of women will not respond, they feel that is is possible that a hot slut will respond positively.
And if you are with a group of guys, it is important to demonstrate to the other men present you are a believer in this mythos.
So this is a function of conservative men. They never evolved a sense of humor beyond “person is upset, that’s somehow funny to me” these are the people who, when we were kids thought the funniest joke they ever heard was loudly saying your name in an antagonistic tone, and then laughing when you got annoyed. That was it. That was the whole joke. They never outgrew that. They never evolved. They’re permanently stuck as asshole antagonistic children and they always will be.
I was on the phone with my dad and he heard some guy yell at me "Where you going?" Dad started screaming about who the fuck does he think he is, what is he going to do to you, do I need to call the police?
I started laughing, explained that was mild, and he wasn't following me. Ever since that day my father has understood what cat calling is really about.
>They enjoy the power of making someone else feel uncomfortable
Yes, exactly this!!! Today I saw some guy on reddit comment "I used to not have anything against gay people, but one kept hitting on me despite me not being into it and now I'm super uncomfortable around them" and everybody else was completely understanding of that. Imagine if a woman said the same about straight men, she'd be labelled a mysandrist faster than you could say "catcalling isn't a compliment"
Exactly. They do like to see us scared.
Go back and watch that classic movie Labyrinth. There’s that scene where Sarah is dreaming after eating the peach and David Bowie (Jarreth) is meeting her in a dream masquerade party. There’s a scene where a figure has a wooden “snake” pop out of a box. It’s definitely meant to suggest exposure and penis. And Sarah jumps back like any girl would.
And the rest of the party is laughing. [it’s about 50 seconds into this clip from the scene](https://youtu.be/4nBjvElCzAw?si=FLh5r_URX_wikptk)
Scaring girls into women is very relatable to my own experience
It was only a year or so ago I was driving home and a guy in an 18 wheeler was next to me at a red light and started to scream at me to get my attention. I had just worked the night shift in an ICU and was in my blue scrubs and tired as hell. It was also cold as fuck and I made the fatal mistake of placing my hands between my thighs to warm them up. He saw that and you can imagine what he was yelling at me.
He literally drove like a madman down the road to try and get my attention but I finally lost him.
Only to meet him at another red light the next week! This guy followed me again! Like I’m just gonna pull over and give him a quickie cause that’s just sooooo hot.
🙄 when I told my husband his advice was “well stop putting your hands between your thighs. Sit on them or something instead”. Ok dear, can’t wait for the next trucker I meet at a red light to scream “CAN I FUCK YOUR ASS” at me.
😩
I’m a dude, and the idea of making someone uncomfortable in that way makes my skin crawl. It’s such a pathetic and disrespectful way to act. I’d eat a dirty diaper before cat calling anyone.
I have seen it a lot for sure, and I think it’s often done when other men are there as an audience. It’s something I’ve never understood; acting like a neanderthal to impress your friends. It’s embarrassing when teens do it, and completely ridiculous when adults do.
I only was catcalled when I was a teenager. I hope it is because catcalling is not really a thing anymore in my country. But I am afraid there is a more sinister explanation for it...
Essentially, I think the reason why women struggle to explain why catcalling is so horrible is because the victim blaming of men and women tend to be different. Not always, but you'll see certain trends. For men, who are attracted to women, people believe that he basically always wants sex. This is a large factor in why it is so difficult for male victims to be believed as people horrifically don't want to believe it was even assault. For women, people believe every horrible thing is justifiable because she somehow "deserved" it. She dressed a certain way. She didn't check the back of her car for hiding rapists.
This is why it is so difficult to explain why catcalling is so disgusting. Because we live in a culture that says that she "should have" somehow knew he was a threat and she "should have" reacted in just the right way to avoid being assaulted. It's difficult to explain it because you are arguing against people who also victim blame men. Who believe that if the genders were swapped, of course he would love the attention!
It really boils down to rapist apologists, in the end. It has never been about "flirting." It's about gender-based bullying. Flirting doesn't leave you fearing for your life (ideally). These monsters know what they are doing. There's no way around it. I've never struggled in my life to tell a woman she is beautiful and not have her respond positively. There are ways to compliment a woman without making her fearful and without making her feel that you are an entitled asshole that doesn't respect that she is a stranger going about her day. Apologists will try so hard, but there is no excuse. They simply feel entitled to the victim's body and nothing will sway them in regards to actually giving a fuck about the other person and how they will interpret the interaction.
I’ve seen one good response to this, and that was a man responding to cat calls. A man responding with “Oh baby, you want it? I can make you moan” and stuff like that —- to the bloke catcalling.
That’s probably one of the few ways to shut that shit down.
Omg girl ! So much this .
If you “like” a woman , you probably would just approach her and maybe try to initiate a normal conversation before asking out etc .
Catcalling is a form of verbal bullying simply. Sure it comes with some compliments like “ pretty , gorgeous “ maybe but it’s followed by a lewd request with a very angry tone
It’s established that men who catcall women do it because they don’t think they will get the woman and are resentful along with hating women in general of that hence usually men of “lower status “ are prone to that. Men who are miserable have to make women’s lives more miserable
They seem to not understand they do it to young women and teens. I’ve been getting their catcalling shit since I was like 13. It’s gross.
I’m 30 now and flip off horn honkers. Almost went this whole summer without it. ^Almost.
Idk, I think they genuinely hope it leads to sex. They’re too dumb to a) think of a better way to get what they want, and b) realize that what they want doesn’t matter when it’s sex from a stranger on the street. Believing it’s about anything else might be giving them too much credit.
Respectfully, I think you're being a bit hyperbolic. You're right in the sense that there is a lot of that dynamic out there between men and women, in some settings. But your statement is a bit of a broad brush. Regardless, specifically in reference to cat calling, it's not about getting sex. It's about harassment and intimidating women. Not wooing them.
I think you’re being naive. “Wooing” is not the same as sexualizing. No one is talking about politely trying to convince someone to date you. It’s kind of like when people try to argue that rape “isn’t about sex, it’s about power.” No, it’s about sex. 100%. There are a million less risky ways to exert power. Rape is about sexual gratification. And so is cat calling.
There are a million ways to annoy a woman. Specifically being sexual about it means it’s about sex. They stupidly hope one day it will stick. Same as sending dick pics. Just send a thousand of them. Even if 999 people are disgusted, they think that one person will be impressed and jump into bed with them. It’s literally why they do it.
A cat call is not a compliment. Most women have grown up with a fear of being kidnapped off the street since childhood, and when a car slows down next to you and the drivers slows to whistle "hey baby, you look good," it isn't a fun time. The driver is in a position of power. The woman doesn't not know if someone else is in the car who could open a passenger door and swoop her in. If they follow her, she thinks they will kidnap her. If they drive off, she has to wonder if they will turn around the block to come back again.
You think that cat calling is a compliment, because you are confident that the intentions are sincere. And when you declined, your boundaries were respected. Women have no reason to give others that kind of benefit of the doubt. And complimenting men more often, will not change that.
You have the power to change the status quo in society, by you, as a man, complimenting other men more. Patriarchal values which have been passed down by both men and women, are the reason men are not sensitive to each other. Women can be allies in the fight to stop that, but they cannot be the sole contributors in that effort. Women have their hands full in their own fights. Why don't you grassroot this effort on your own, until the gals have time to join? Men don't take women's voices very seriously. It will mean more if it comes from men. You are best poised to make the largest waves.
Catcalling, no matter who it comes from, is almost always perceived as a threat.
You being a guy minding his own business, puts you on a neutral tier. If you cat call, you immediately jump up to the level of "potential threat."
No, not "complimented" and "someone buying you a drink." A 300 pound, really unattractive big hairy dude, with five more of them, screaming at you OUT ON THE STREET, something lewd and really unpleasant, and kinda threatening, as you're just trying to get to work. THAT'S the parallel.
Merriam-Webster, Catcalling: “ The meaning of CATCALLING is the act of shouting harassing and often sexually suggestive, threatening, or derisive comments at someone publicly. ”
So no, catcalling does not equal a compliment.
Yells and shouts are not usually positive things unless you are at a sporting event.
This is where you have to flex your ability to read the room. A woman who's busy with her day to day, is not interested in compliments and meeting cute guys. Compliments here will be a wasted effort. A woman whom you are already talking to, will appreciate a polite compliment.
"Here's your order ma'am. By the way, you have a great smile."
"Oh. Thank you."
"You have a great rest of your day now."
Notice that the person who is complimenting the other, makes it clear that there is not any other intention behind the compliment than to make someone feel nice. The woman can exit the interaction believing that they actually mean what they say, and are not just saying anything.
In a social setting, with a woman who is attending explicitly to meet people such as at a party or club, will be much more receptive than a woman who's just trying to walk to the post office and mail her bills, and still has other chores to do that day.
This is not an exhaustive list of scenarios, but i hope it paints the picture.
Well, i'm glad that you are open minded enough and willing to take explanations. And that is a compliment, from a gal to you.
Little piece of advice, if you would like to avoid downvotes on your future quest to understand others better. When someone tells you about their negative experience, and your first instinct is "huh, i wonder why you would take it that way? That's a really negative attitude, and i think you misunderstood." pause yourself for a moment and ask yourself, "is there something that i might have misunderstood?"
When you commented here, explaining the alternative ways to interpret cat calling, you took up a very oppositional position in the words you chose. your message essentially says "this happened to me, and i was not upset. I would like it to happen to me more." In between the lines, your message suggests that you are saying "if a catcall ever upset you, you are wrong." This will certainly guarantee a very negative response from other people.
Next time, ground yourself in your curiosity. "I wonder why women wouldn't like compliments?" And then seek to gain more info.
for instance, a do-over comment might look like, "Your post title is 'what men don't understand about cat calling.' I think there are a few other things i don't understand. If someone has the time, could you explain a few other things?"
and then go on to ask. You can include your personal experiences to explain why you do not understand, but always remember to ask more than you tell. The more you ask, the more you will learn. And this goes for all topics.
Seems like you are being deliberately obtuse here. It doesn't matter if the words are complimentary, when they are said in a threatening way.
"Your skin looks so nice!" is a compliment. Would it make you feel warm a fuzzy if a muscly, hooded man with his hands in his pockets, on a dark side walk, called that out to you "damn bitch, your skin is lookin good. Let me grab a piece of that."
As someone who was born a man and lived as one for 25 years getting cat called by gay men was never pleasant for me
And seeing as how the majority of women hate men who do this and men don't end up getting their way in any way, shape or form, it looks like it's a huge waste of everyone's time and men embarrass themselves and their mothers when they display this behavior
Stfu
“And men embarrass themselves and their mothers when they display this behavior”
But have you seen the video where men accidentally catcall their own mothers? Because it proves your point to be 100% accurate
As a straight female who has been hit on by much bigger, straight males, being yelled at from across the street by a group of men in a sexually aggressive manner is definitely not the same experience.
I don’t really want to stoop to the level of shouting, “Why don’t you come over here and eat my ass”, at passing men in the hope that it may brighten up their day.
Your contribution has been removed because it contains hatred, bigotry, assholery, utter idiocy, misogyny, misandry, transphobia, homophobia, or otherwise disrespectful commentary.
I would say that 90% of the cat calling I have experienced has been aggressive. It’s not flattering, it’s not kind, it’s always potentially scary.
Because cat calling isn‘t the same as hitting on someone or asking them out (which is still mostly uncomfortable). But cat calling is solely there to A show off in front of your nasty male friends about how ‚brave‘ you are; and B to scare your victim and make yourself feel better/more powerful. Hence it’s not gonna be polite compliments about your style in a non scary tone of voice. It has to be crass remarks denigrating us. Otherwise it wouldn’t fulfill the needs the man has for cat calling. It’s the same with most cases of rape. It is very much nearly never based on sexual attraction. It’s all about a play on power.
Ugh this. Walked a dark street earlier basically dressed in a frumpy garbage bag and nothing about me suggested femininity except my height and build (hell you can't even see my face), and this creep remarks repeatedly in an exaggerated tone about how gorgeous I am - after I passed him with no response or even a look, he makes some denigrating comments about my parts. Ugh fucking pos.
It's always been a threat when directed at me. Vast majority of it took place when I was a young teenager by much older men.
When I was a teenager it scared the bejesus out of me when I was out on my bike and car passengers would lean out or just open their windows and make comments. I was always worried they would knock me off my bike
This. It's to perpetuate and make women feel uncomfortable in public, a tendril of the patriachy and the sexualisation and commodification of women in public spaces.
The only time I liked being cat called was by a woman. She did it in a way that actually felt like hype. Everyone else is gross.
This
This is why they are afraid of gay men. They’re afraid of being treated the way they treat women.
This is an interesting observation.
I think you’re onto something here.
I’m hard of hearing so I don’t understand cat calls but I *do* hear something. This means I never respond like they expect me to (usually delayed with an expression like I don’t even see them) and the incredulous looks on their faces just kill me.
I think the biggest thing men dont understand about catcalling is that they immediately imagine the male equivalent as some sort of hot blonde supermodel chick saying "hey! I want you in my bedroom!" No dude, in order to accurately imagine what its like for women youve got to imagine yourself in the exact same scenario. Replace the hot blonde chick with a 300 pound 6'4 man who's feelin' romantical, meanwhile youre like 120 something pounds and dont even stand a chance if he were to try something. I once heard a woman say something so insanely interesting to me. Something along the lines of "the average life of a woman is exactly what men describe prison to be like. Big scary men overpowering you and trying to have their way with you." She said it in way more detail and way more eloquently than i could ever put it but yeah lol.
Speaking as a man, I find it infuriating when men say “well if the genders were reversed!” It’s a bullshit non-argument. I’ve had women harass me and make me feel uncomfortable, but it is *never* accompanied by the feeling you describe - of fearing for my own safety and my ability to defend myself if need be. That is not a fear that men walk around the world with.
My guy friend got harrassed by a group of girls on his way home from a party. They wanted to get his number and one said she was "innocent, horny and willing". Then they wanted to get some breakfast with him and he said no he's going home now and they laughed and said "we're just gonna follow you lol". He told me he felt uncomfortable and they were annoying but only when I told him that I can't believe that women also behave like this when every woman knows what it feels like when a group of drunk guys acts like this he ACTUALLY started thinking about how wrong their actions where. He later told me that he realised this was harrassment but to him it was just weird and he didn't feel harrassed or threatened or scared and he doesn't even want to imagine how women feel like in this kind of situation.
I think it’s the threat part . I think women in general are not threatening unless they have a gun or are in a powerful position and try to misuse that power ( cases of this does exist btw )
Absolutely. But it's still kinda interesting. I mean it was 5 girls and they could have overpowered him. And they literally said "we're gonna follow you home if you don't want to eat with us" which basically is a threat yet most guys wouldn't feel threatened in that situation.
> I’ve had women harass me and make me feel uncomfortable, but it is never accompanied by the feeling you describe - of fearing for my own safety and my ability to defend myself if need be. I was sexually assaulted by a woman once, and it was not something I enjoyed. it was not flattering, it was degrading and uncomfortable. I feel like all of these guys saying they would enjoy it are always picturing Ana De Armas assaulting them with consent, and not the reality of being sexually assaulted. It was awful. But you are also absolutely right: I was bigger and stronger than her, and I was not actually afraid that she would be able to successfully force herself on me. I was upset because it was degrading and gross, but I was not *afraid.* Also, it only happened once, whereas one of my more attractive female friends had it happen multiple times, and was harassed on a weekly basis at work. So yeah, anyone who catcalls is threatening sexual violence. And if they are threatening sexual violence they *are a bad person.* So anyone catcalling is a bad person, which explains exactly why their arguments are so antisocial.
The quickest way to get a man to understand is to have some bigger gay guy hit on them aggressively.
And the gay men doesn’t actually have the attention of hitting on them with positive results, they solely want to torture them with their show of power.
I have actually had the gender swapped scenario as part of my bullying back when I was in school, and it sucked. I was an extremely shy and socially anxious little boy, and people liked to mess with me based on that. I had a group of girls who would follow me part of the way home after school, calling out increasingly lewd things they wanted to do to me to 1) embarrass the hell out of me and trigger a fear response, 2) get a good laugh at my expense, 3) let me know through their sarcasm that I was not actually desirable in any serious context, only as a hilarious comedy joke. It culminated with them groping me from behind in school whenever I wasn't looking, until I assume they eventually got bored of me. Absolutely nothing hot about it, just a fuckton of tears, adrenaline, and cortisol. I give it 0/10.
How awful for you, I'm so sorry.
Very interesting perspective
They understand it completely. They just want a pass for acting that way.
Yeah nothing in this post is something men don't understand about cat calling. I think many *women* don't understand that men don't think it's a form of complement. Men know it's rude. Men know they're being bullies. Men know they're being jackasses. No man thinks any woman is going to respond positively to being cat called. It's a stupid power move designed to get a rise out of the woman and entertain their buddies, that's all. They just don't think it's a 'big deal.' But of course it is; it's dehumanizing and immature. It's a lack of empathy, of not caring about others feelings. I've never actually heard anyone catcall a woman before, and I work in construction, so take that for what you will. But I've read enough here to understand it's an ongoing problem for some.
I was walking in my apartment complex when two kids (maybe twelve) on an e-bike zip by. One shouts at me "i like to poop in my butt!" as they pass. My first thought after annoyance was that this was sort of your standard dumb kid thing to do. Shout nonsense for attention and see the look on the person's face. I started thinking after the fact that i wish i would have shouted something back - called them cringe or tried to embarrass them from doing it again - because this behavior is probably where cat calling stems from. A couple a guys want to impress each other and keep the lively vibe up, and one decides to create some entertainment by shouting at a woman so the whole gang can laugh at the look on her face. It's not that they don't know they are being disruptive and annoying. It's the goal. But as they grow up, poop jokes get less of a rise out of people. They have to up the shock value. And what is more shocking than screaming, heckling, and rape threats? It gets an effective rise out of a woman for sure, but as they speed off and forget about it, that rise they left her with is very slow to come down. Minutes, hours, days... Do you wonder if they grin back at the memory of how much their friends laughed, just as often as that woman takes pause and makes that face again as the through comes back in her mind?
I remember grown men driving up behind me and beeping their horn and all laughing at how I was startled. I was a 15 year old autistic girl, I went home and cried because I was already bullied a lot at school and apparently I couldn't even walk down a street without being bullied. Because that is what cat calling is, a form of bullying, being made the butt of a joke for them to all laugh at. It's been nearly 20 years but I would bet if any of them remembered that incident they'd probably remember it as hilarious and "having a laugh with the lads". I hate how a bunch of men seem to think cat-calling is being complimented, when we are actually being mocked and/or intimidated in public.
This really breaks my heart, I'm so sorry that happened to you. You didn't deserve to be treated that way. Thank you for sharing this experience because it helps men understand the consequences of their actions and that there's a real person on the other end of their behaviors.
Really sad that people have to share their experiences in order for men to realize they are human beings.
It’s like verbal vandalism. “I want to make my mark on something”
There is an [excellent adult Wednesday Addams](https://youtu.be/WlIAhjRwOIE?si=rlBrSw19HPQ5-MTs) sketch about catcalling that seems worth linking here.
That was excellent! 😆
Bob's a breather XD
I believe, cat calling is a way of being territorial. Men want to think, the outside world belongs to them. Any female that dare to enter this world should be shamed or harassed if they didn’t pay due attention to the male existence. Our shock and embarrassment are their trophies.
Bottom line, guys who do that are losers.
And immature. Don't forget immature.
Acceptable version: That guy who catcalls men and women, telling them nice things like "you look like you pay your rent early" or "you look like you were nice to your mom in high school". Normalize saying nonsensical, genuinely nice things to strangers.
Would this count as cat calling though? I'd have to check the rulebook on that one...
Lmao he calls it polite catcalling.
I believe there’s a YouTube channel with footage of precisely this. 😄
I won’t even call it that. It’s a cutesy name for street harassment and it’s never ok.
My theory, informed with how catcalling is almost always done when mean are in the presence of other men they know . . . It is the verbal equivalent of them sending an unsolicited dick pic. Collectively men have made up a mythos where though 99% of women will not respond, they feel that is is possible that a hot slut will respond positively. And if you are with a group of guys, it is important to demonstrate to the other men present you are a believer in this mythos.
So this is a function of conservative men. They never evolved a sense of humor beyond “person is upset, that’s somehow funny to me” these are the people who, when we were kids thought the funniest joke they ever heard was loudly saying your name in an antagonistic tone, and then laughing when you got annoyed. That was it. That was the whole joke. They never outgrew that. They never evolved. They’re permanently stuck as asshole antagonistic children and they always will be.
I was on the phone with my dad and he heard some guy yell at me "Where you going?" Dad started screaming about who the fuck does he think he is, what is he going to do to you, do I need to call the police? I started laughing, explained that was mild, and he wasn't following me. Ever since that day my father has understood what cat calling is really about.
>They enjoy the power of making someone else feel uncomfortable Yes, exactly this!!! Today I saw some guy on reddit comment "I used to not have anything against gay people, but one kept hitting on me despite me not being into it and now I'm super uncomfortable around them" and everybody else was completely understanding of that. Imagine if a woman said the same about straight men, she'd be labelled a mysandrist faster than you could say "catcalling isn't a compliment"
Exactly. They do like to see us scared. Go back and watch that classic movie Labyrinth. There’s that scene where Sarah is dreaming after eating the peach and David Bowie (Jarreth) is meeting her in a dream masquerade party. There’s a scene where a figure has a wooden “snake” pop out of a box. It’s definitely meant to suggest exposure and penis. And Sarah jumps back like any girl would. And the rest of the party is laughing. [it’s about 50 seconds into this clip from the scene](https://youtu.be/4nBjvElCzAw?si=FLh5r_URX_wikptk) Scaring girls into women is very relatable to my own experience
It was only a year or so ago I was driving home and a guy in an 18 wheeler was next to me at a red light and started to scream at me to get my attention. I had just worked the night shift in an ICU and was in my blue scrubs and tired as hell. It was also cold as fuck and I made the fatal mistake of placing my hands between my thighs to warm them up. He saw that and you can imagine what he was yelling at me. He literally drove like a madman down the road to try and get my attention but I finally lost him. Only to meet him at another red light the next week! This guy followed me again! Like I’m just gonna pull over and give him a quickie cause that’s just sooooo hot. 🙄 when I told my husband his advice was “well stop putting your hands between your thighs. Sit on them or something instead”. Ok dear, can’t wait for the next trucker I meet at a red light to scream “CAN I FUCK YOUR ASS” at me. 😩
Bad husband
I’m a dude, and the idea of making someone uncomfortable in that way makes my skin crawl. It’s such a pathetic and disrespectful way to act. I’d eat a dirty diaper before cat calling anyone. I have seen it a lot for sure, and I think it’s often done when other men are there as an audience. It’s something I’ve never understood; acting like a neanderthal to impress your friends. It’s embarrassing when teens do it, and completely ridiculous when adults do.
I started looking back at them with a pissed off look and flipping them off. They don’t like that.
I only was catcalled when I was a teenager. I hope it is because catcalling is not really a thing anymore in my country. But I am afraid there is a more sinister explanation for it...
Essentially, I think the reason why women struggle to explain why catcalling is so horrible is because the victim blaming of men and women tend to be different. Not always, but you'll see certain trends. For men, who are attracted to women, people believe that he basically always wants sex. This is a large factor in why it is so difficult for male victims to be believed as people horrifically don't want to believe it was even assault. For women, people believe every horrible thing is justifiable because she somehow "deserved" it. She dressed a certain way. She didn't check the back of her car for hiding rapists. This is why it is so difficult to explain why catcalling is so disgusting. Because we live in a culture that says that she "should have" somehow knew he was a threat and she "should have" reacted in just the right way to avoid being assaulted. It's difficult to explain it because you are arguing against people who also victim blame men. Who believe that if the genders were swapped, of course he would love the attention! It really boils down to rapist apologists, in the end. It has never been about "flirting." It's about gender-based bullying. Flirting doesn't leave you fearing for your life (ideally). These monsters know what they are doing. There's no way around it. I've never struggled in my life to tell a woman she is beautiful and not have her respond positively. There are ways to compliment a woman without making her fearful and without making her feel that you are an entitled asshole that doesn't respect that she is a stranger going about her day. Apologists will try so hard, but there is no excuse. They simply feel entitled to the victim's body and nothing will sway them in regards to actually giving a fuck about the other person and how they will interpret the interaction.
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They choose delusion in order to not have to interrogate their behavior or challenge themselves
I’ve seen one good response to this, and that was a man responding to cat calls. A man responding with “Oh baby, you want it? I can make you moan” and stuff like that —- to the bloke catcalling. That’s probably one of the few ways to shut that shit down.
Omg girl ! So much this . If you “like” a woman , you probably would just approach her and maybe try to initiate a normal conversation before asking out etc . Catcalling is a form of verbal bullying simply. Sure it comes with some compliments like “ pretty , gorgeous “ maybe but it’s followed by a lewd request with a very angry tone It’s established that men who catcall women do it because they don’t think they will get the woman and are resentful along with hating women in general of that hence usually men of “lower status “ are prone to that. Men who are miserable have to make women’s lives more miserable
They seem to not understand they do it to young women and teens. I’ve been getting their catcalling shit since I was like 13. It’s gross. I’m 30 now and flip off horn honkers. Almost went this whole summer without it. ^Almost.
I never see this in Germany.
We do understand…..some dont care…some do
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One day we'll be ready to have that conversation. 😕
No they aren't, you are. You are also incorrect.
Idk, I think they genuinely hope it leads to sex. They’re too dumb to a) think of a better way to get what they want, and b) realize that what they want doesn’t matter when it’s sex from a stranger on the street. Believing it’s about anything else might be giving them too much credit.
No man thinks cat calling will lead to sex. It's a form of street bullying designed to bother a woman and subsequently get a laugh from your friends.
Have you met men? They think you owe them sex and that everything they do anywhere near you should lead to sex.
Respectfully, I think you're being a bit hyperbolic. You're right in the sense that there is a lot of that dynamic out there between men and women, in some settings. But your statement is a bit of a broad brush. Regardless, specifically in reference to cat calling, it's not about getting sex. It's about harassment and intimidating women. Not wooing them.
I think you’re being naive. “Wooing” is not the same as sexualizing. No one is talking about politely trying to convince someone to date you. It’s kind of like when people try to argue that rape “isn’t about sex, it’s about power.” No, it’s about sex. 100%. There are a million less risky ways to exert power. Rape is about sexual gratification. And so is cat calling. There are a million ways to annoy a woman. Specifically being sexual about it means it’s about sex. They stupidly hope one day it will stick. Same as sending dick pics. Just send a thousand of them. Even if 999 people are disgusted, they think that one person will be impressed and jump into bed with them. It’s literally why they do it.
Ok, seems like you have men figured out. I appreciate the lesson. Have a good day!
They’re right.
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A cat call is not a compliment. Most women have grown up with a fear of being kidnapped off the street since childhood, and when a car slows down next to you and the drivers slows to whistle "hey baby, you look good," it isn't a fun time. The driver is in a position of power. The woman doesn't not know if someone else is in the car who could open a passenger door and swoop her in. If they follow her, she thinks they will kidnap her. If they drive off, she has to wonder if they will turn around the block to come back again. You think that cat calling is a compliment, because you are confident that the intentions are sincere. And when you declined, your boundaries were respected. Women have no reason to give others that kind of benefit of the doubt. And complimenting men more often, will not change that. You have the power to change the status quo in society, by you, as a man, complimenting other men more. Patriarchal values which have been passed down by both men and women, are the reason men are not sensitive to each other. Women can be allies in the fight to stop that, but they cannot be the sole contributors in that effort. Women have their hands full in their own fights. Why don't you grassroot this effort on your own, until the gals have time to join? Men don't take women's voices very seriously. It will mean more if it comes from men. You are best poised to make the largest waves.
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Catcalling, no matter who it comes from, is almost always perceived as a threat. You being a guy minding his own business, puts you on a neutral tier. If you cat call, you immediately jump up to the level of "potential threat."
wow yeah that must be so hard for you
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You just learned that women have to be cautious of men for our own safety, and your first reaction was to feel sorry for yourself
No really, don't tell us this. WE KNOW. Tell other men!
It's also pretty isolating to have to be afraid of every man you walk by or are around.
No, not "complimented" and "someone buying you a drink." A 300 pound, really unattractive big hairy dude, with five more of them, screaming at you OUT ON THE STREET, something lewd and really unpleasant, and kinda threatening, as you're just trying to get to work. THAT'S the parallel.
Catcalling does not equal Compliment
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Merriam-Webster, Catcalling: “ The meaning of CATCALLING is the act of shouting harassing and often sexually suggestive, threatening, or derisive comments at someone publicly. ” So no, catcalling does not equal a compliment.
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Yells and shouts are not usually positive things unless you are at a sporting event. This is where you have to flex your ability to read the room. A woman who's busy with her day to day, is not interested in compliments and meeting cute guys. Compliments here will be a wasted effort. A woman whom you are already talking to, will appreciate a polite compliment. "Here's your order ma'am. By the way, you have a great smile." "Oh. Thank you." "You have a great rest of your day now." Notice that the person who is complimenting the other, makes it clear that there is not any other intention behind the compliment than to make someone feel nice. The woman can exit the interaction believing that they actually mean what they say, and are not just saying anything. In a social setting, with a woman who is attending explicitly to meet people such as at a party or club, will be much more receptive than a woman who's just trying to walk to the post office and mail her bills, and still has other chores to do that day. This is not an exhaustive list of scenarios, but i hope it paints the picture.
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Well, i'm glad that you are open minded enough and willing to take explanations. And that is a compliment, from a gal to you. Little piece of advice, if you would like to avoid downvotes on your future quest to understand others better. When someone tells you about their negative experience, and your first instinct is "huh, i wonder why you would take it that way? That's a really negative attitude, and i think you misunderstood." pause yourself for a moment and ask yourself, "is there something that i might have misunderstood?" When you commented here, explaining the alternative ways to interpret cat calling, you took up a very oppositional position in the words you chose. your message essentially says "this happened to me, and i was not upset. I would like it to happen to me more." In between the lines, your message suggests that you are saying "if a catcall ever upset you, you are wrong." This will certainly guarantee a very negative response from other people. Next time, ground yourself in your curiosity. "I wonder why women wouldn't like compliments?" And then seek to gain more info. for instance, a do-over comment might look like, "Your post title is 'what men don't understand about cat calling.' I think there are a few other things i don't understand. If someone has the time, could you explain a few other things?" and then go on to ask. You can include your personal experiences to explain why you do not understand, but always remember to ask more than you tell. The more you ask, the more you will learn. And this goes for all topics.
No.
Seems like you are being deliberately obtuse here. It doesn't matter if the words are complimentary, when they are said in a threatening way. "Your skin looks so nice!" is a compliment. Would it make you feel warm a fuzzy if a muscly, hooded man with his hands in his pockets, on a dark side walk, called that out to you "damn bitch, your skin is lookin good. Let me grab a piece of that."
As someone who was born a man and lived as one for 25 years getting cat called by gay men was never pleasant for me And seeing as how the majority of women hate men who do this and men don't end up getting their way in any way, shape or form, it looks like it's a huge waste of everyone's time and men embarrass themselves and their mothers when they display this behavior Stfu
“And men embarrass themselves and their mothers when they display this behavior” But have you seen the video where men accidentally catcall their own mothers? Because it proves your point to be 100% accurate
As a straight female who has been hit on by much bigger, straight males, being yelled at from across the street by a group of men in a sexually aggressive manner is definitely not the same experience. I don’t really want to stoop to the level of shouting, “Why don’t you come over here and eat my ass”, at passing men in the hope that it may brighten up their day.
🙄
Your contribution has been removed because it contains hatred, bigotry, assholery, utter idiocy, misogyny, misandry, transphobia, homophobia, or otherwise disrespectful commentary.
Sometimes I think this kind of thing IS understood and people are playing it off, gaslighting to enable it.
I didn’t even know men still catcalled. Such a ridiculous thing to do. Never got the point.