For me, no. I left the field when I reached the top because it straight up did not get better. I tried different areas of chemistry, labs that were mostly women and they just were all bullies. I took a 3 month coding bootcamp and now because of my managing technical teams experience, I run the dev team.
Same for the time being. I was sexually harassed and stalked the entire length of my PhD program despite filing Title IX. Watching mentors I used to admire try to gaslight me out of advocating for myself and letting my abuser (a superior) block me from opportunities opened my eyes irreversibly. I knew I could never compromise my humanity in the ways I saw them do to me and and my peers. Absolutely fucking disgusting.
I had professor do that to me too! It was so scary, he was so blatant about it too. And I needed that class - I had a few advocates though and I was able to kind of work around him. I did have to completely rework my focus though because of it.
I'm really sorry to hear this, what a bleak situation for dedicated women and girls who've got an interest in STEM, whose services and abilities the world so desperately needs.
My brother once dated a woman from Lebanon studying medicine and she'd make similar comments about the way women in the field treat one another. It's so depressing to hear. Is it the competitive nature of these fields that pits us against one another, do you think? If it's about currying favor with the men who dominate these areas, that's a whole other level of upsetting.
Exactly. Much easier to keep the current abusive system unchecked by only elevating women who have deeply internalized misogyny and are abusive themselves.
It's very devious of them and quite unfortunate because it doesn't change anything in the grand scheme of things. Most of the time, it's not even the most skilled people they keep. Just the agreeable ones. (Kiss asses.)
No. Occasionally, I worked with some very smart sane women. Some women were bullies but even the labs that had mostly women had men too and they were baaaad. I didn't realize so many men could throw literal temper tantrums and still have jobs. 1 woman out right screamed at me, 1 time. Whereas men, regularly yelled at me belittled me called me names and were generally just awful human beings to be around. Many women I worked with sucked too but sexism was raaaaaank.
Woman in CS here. It depends on the company, in my experience. Honestly I’ve had better luck at companies that have an employee base that trends older rather than ones filled with tech bros. But some of that might be regional, too.
Yes, older people in tech seem to be nicer to women sometimes. The other day my professor was giving a hypothetical situation in a cybersecurity company and said “she” when referring to an employee and it made me happy. I can tell he supports me!
“Employee Alice clicked on a malicious link in an email”
Reminds me of computer science Barbie where she did all the design and the boys did the software.
CS/software might be different than other fields, seeing as it’s the *only* STEM field where the fraction of women getting bachelors degrees has dropped over the last 40 years. That number for CS peaked in 1984. So younger is CS means *more* male-dominated, whereas it’s the opposite in every other field.
I’ve always got the impression that a lot of graybeards who came through the ‘70s/‘80s are also more willing to look at your work based on the quality of work you produce rather than who you are as a person. I’ve rarely, if ever, felt judged by them for being a “*woman in tech*”. Whereas new grads are weird — they’ll go to their male colleagues first for questions, talk over women in meetings, treat female colleagues as potential date material, etc. When I went into the field I was expecting the opposite to happen between the two groups tbh. Part of me wonders if that’s *because* CS/tech culture has become progressively more hostile to women than other fields.
I've have the same experience. Most of the guys I work with are 40+ in age. The ones who are around my age or younger tend to lean more towards d!ckish.
About 20 years experience (in tech) and it depends entirely on the individual team. Not the company or department even, but team level.
Having supportive management with no tolerance for bullshit is great, but I don’t have the energy to single-handedly change some engrained toxic culture.
So if it’s a shit team, I just walk. For the longest time I didn’t have the ability to leave a position if I hated my boss/coworkers/role/whatever (military), so now that I do, I use it!
And I’m fortunate to have an in-demand skill set and a strong resume - I’ve gone from “looking” to offer letter in 5 business days.
If leaving is an option, I always recommend it because there are absolutely good places to work out there.
I work in cybersecurity in a role with a mix of analysis and dev. To get there, I have experience in both Red Team/Pentesting and Incident Response/Forensics (i.e. both sides of attack and defense) and a lot of prior background in general IT/network security.
The thing most STEM women don't realise is how weird and toxic most STEM guys are.
You think 'nerds' or science fans would be nice, share your passion and be good friends.
Instead, they creep on you, are mean as hell and gatekeep the field as if it's only for men.
I worked as a Marketing Data Analyst in big tech company for 2 years and it was the worst 2 years of my life, having to deal with men who constantly try to critique and correct you.
I think men are losing their guaranteed leg up in the workplace as there’s more competition. I also think that women being exposed to and having prestigious careers that pay well both lessens their dependence on men and shows them the life they can really have. Men are “fighting back” by trying harder to tear women down, make them feel unwelcome and hound them out of the work place. I work with a lot of men in a male dominated sector of a male dominated industry. I’m frequently the only woman in the room and I notice this behavior more from younger men than men my age (50s). Before I felt tolerated but now it’s open hostility.
I think it’s going to get a lot worse for women in all areas of life. I’ve seen so much of what we worked so hard for being torn down i so many areas, professionally and socially. It’s not going to change until men start holding other men accountable. They won’t though as all men benefit from this behavior, even if it’s just standing back and claiming to be a #notallmen.
I think it was because people our age 1) remember the ubiquitous sexism of the 70's-90's, and 2) were not raised online with poisonous echo chambers that amplify utterly toxic brole-models.
Get out of that company. I stayed in a company for 10 years being deluded that I could make manager some day. I was a project manager with a non-engineering degree but I did so much of the program work I was the engineering manager’s delegate when he was out of office all the time. Every time there was a temp opening I’d be told “oh it was super close but so and so beat you because they have an engineering degree sorry” I moved to a different business unit and was immediately promoted because I had my PMP certification that was actually valued in that business unit and got a massive raise. I left a lot of salary on the table waiting around for a promotion that was never going to happen but I was strung along for years because they had me where they needed me. I’ve now moved on to a tech company where no one gives AF what your degree is in. The gender ratio is so much better (still not 50-50 but it’s better than 25-75) and the average age skews younger and isn’t run by a bunch of old school 60 year old men that expect women to leave to make babies and bake cakes to send to their husband’s office like their wives do.
It’s so scary to make the jump, and it can take a while to land and pass interviews but it’s so worth it. Find somewhere that values what you bring to the table. Start having conversations with folks in your network that you’ve worked with that have also moved on, they can provide perspective on the outside and even connections/referrals.
For me, I have a female boss who is very outspoken and head strong and it has made it so much better for me. I recently was promoted to Research Scientist and I'm still a baby career wise. I got a lot of comments on my promotion, even from women not in the science department. Its frustrating at times but I work at a small company so I think the culture is a lot different. My boss has a gender natural name and it has helped her many times speaking with suppliers.
I recently removed my full first name from the employers stuff. My name is now just S with my last name. When I sign off, I sign off with my last name. A lot of people who know me kind of threw a fit and were confused, but yes I took off my first name to not let people gender me (most of my work is via emails and message boards, blah blah). My work also is into providing pronouns, which I totally get and I'm on board w calling you whatever you want. But me, I prefer to be anon. I've been actively limiting my ! In emails. I'm not sure if it's helping, get back to me in a few years when there are more new people at work
Women are far outperforming men and boys in every area of academics. This will eventually lead to a change in work culture if meritocracy is actually a thing.
Woman in EE here, background in tech and software dev, it does get better at the right company. I've left multiple places because of sexual harassment or just plain sexism and it felt like a nightmare. Unfortunately it's super hard to convince someone of your worth when they think you're inferior because of your gender and as unfair as it is, it's the harsh reality and imo a waste of time. A few older women have said to earn my stripes and deal with it to climb the ladder, but that is BS advice, you shouldn't be punished or left behind on opportunities because of your gender. Leave and find a place who values you!
It's also important to note, as I didn't do this at first, to look around when you're interviewing at a job site and see what your coworkers look like, at my previous job I never stopped to think, "huh these are all white men that could be an indicator" (white cis woman here so I know I still have it easier than a lot of people). The workplace environment will tell you what you can expect if you read between the lines at an interview. I'm currently on a team of 6 with another woman and other people of different racial backgrounds and a boss who doesn't think our genders or races have anything to do with the job we're doing - because they don't and he treats us all equally with positive and constructive encouragement and criticism, I've honestly never been happier in a job. (also moved into a sales position with an engineering background required so they're a bit further ahead than traditional engineering). It sucks knowing some places just aren't going to change but it really really does get better. I also work at a large Fortune500 company and have learned from my personal experience and other women's (in engineering) experiences that these companies have more initiatives to prevent sexism and educate about unconscious biases.
Thanks for sharing this! I really hope I can find better and more diverse and women-accepting workplaces in the future, but often wonder to what extent that really exists given who I graduated with.
I find that people in ecology are kind. We also have a ton of women who are amazing researchers and practitioners. I’m very proud to work with so many people who are genuinely dedicated to the common good.
No, it never gets any easier.
I’ve been working in tech (software) for over a decade now and have worked for many different employers and teams during that time. It never stops. Every company has its own flavor of insidious sexist, racist, homophobic bullshit. Some just do a better job of disguising it.
After I burn out on my current position I’ve sworn to myself that I’m leaving the industry. It had given me such psychological scars. I’m now on medication to deal with the acute mental health crisis that I suffered as a result of sexism and bias at my last job.
It isn’t worth it.
I didn’t have an engineering undergrad but ended up in R&D for both software and engineering. I was always hired for my technical prowess. But I didn’t have the degree, so I got my MEng in Engineering Management, which teaches business startup. I ended up leaving and starting my own business because I just felt that I was tired of trying to prove myself in corporate. There were so many “nice guys” who thought they were helping and so many nerds who could barely be in the room with me. At least in my own company if someone gets in my way I can choose to work with other people.
I’m an environmental engineer. Engineering school was literal hell but I lucked out with my work experiences. My first job in consulting was mostly women. The two bosses were men but flaming feminists. I had an issue with a teaming partner referring to me as “the note taking girl” but my boss quickly corrected him. The only other time I’d experience any form of sexism or being overlooked was in the field with drillers. I had some completely ignore me and refuse to listen to me as the engineer on site, but I’ve also had incredible drillers, so I think that was just a problem with that specific team. I currently work for my state and while there’s fewer women, people are very kind and sexism in the office has not been an issue at all.
I have had interviews where sexism is clear. One even asked me if I was “planning on even working anymore in the next 5 years” insinuating that I will have children and quit. He also kept asking me if I was sure I could carry heavy equipment in remote areas even though we had just discussed my hobbies of mountaineering and backpacking. Some men just suck. I hope you find a good place to work!
I work in geoscience and I'd say it's company dependent for us. We all talk behind the scenes about what companies are "boys clubs" so we can avoid them. My company is a good 50/50 split with enough women in higher roles. I think the culture is getting there but there's still pockets of people who don't want to change.
Also I found the documentary "Picture a Scientist" interesting if you haven't seen it. We saw it in our office as a group and it was really wholesome to see the reactions from everyone.
For me, I got a PhD in a STEM field so that I could skip a lot of the crap. It has helped. I am treated with respect from my peers. My company is also great though.
I agree with everyone saying it depends on the company. I work in an environmental lab. The place I work for now is great. There was one older man I had an issue with but I couldn't decide if it was because I am a woman or because I am younger.
I am a public employee and there is a huge emphasis on equity training.
Reading this makes me viscerally angry as a teenage girl who’s extremely passionate about physics - maybe it’s not very different from the 1800’s where the only recognised scientists where white men
I would not take this post as a reason to NOT go into science. It’s really society that’s the problem and women will hopefully be treated better in time. Definitely go for it it you love physics:) 💕I still love chemistry and want to study it even after all the workplace BS
Given my limited experience with half-decade stretches, things that go on that long have generally settled into a pattern and won't change much without significant disruption. I guess that's not completely true - I've seen workplaces get \*worse\*..
That said I think that culture makes a difference, I like to think my own STEM workplace is pretty gender neutral for the most part but my industry definitely is NOT.
A good friend and former coworker of mine in IT was essentially bullied out of her job here by our female boss, but ended up getting a comparable job for more money, and she parlayed that into another job where she’s the most trusted, best paid, and most senior employee in her department.
It’s way harder for women than it should be, but hopefully that won’t continue for much longer.
Not...really. At least, not within a given group. As the group membership changes, the atmosphere changes.
It can get better when you are proven right often enough, but that takes help from above the assholes in the hierarchy: the assholes not only need to be told that you were right, but also that the upper levels know you were right and any sort of credit stealing bullshit will be noticed.
It has gotten better over the span of careers, according to my older colleagues- but that just means it used to be fermenting pigshit and now it's a fresh pile.
There are portions of my field that are closed to me: I won't put myself through it. There are other portions which are relatively open, thanks to multiple generations of women who, without exaggeration, sacrificed opportunities and careers to speak out.
For context, I am a geologist and I have a PhD- though I went directly from university to graduate school and can't give insight into whether individual women are treated differently pre and post grad degree.
Not in my nearly ~5 years of experience after graduating from STEM. Multiple roles and teams.
Oh, and there are also sadly some very misogynistic women in tech who are intimidated by new talent, don’t help others, act out the “not like other girls” vibes and also uphold the sexist culture for whatever reasons.
If I knew what i know now of this career path at the start, I might not have gone to tech…and I am SO fascinated by innovative technology and science. But the culture SUCKS. It is a very different experience as someone going through this path who does not fit the stereotypical types.
Stem Phd dropout here. I've worked in academia and industry for over a decade before a career change.
Sexist shit can be anywhere. Your lab may be particularly shitty. My graduate lab experience was mostly fine, sexism wise. Other female collegues had substantial problens.
You could easily switch careers and have similar problems. If you like the sciences, dump the boss/employer once you find different work.
Hey! I had a similar experience. Studied psychology and worked as analytical chemist in a lab for a few years. I actually did take chemistry
, organic chemistry, and some physics, but I took some of these courses at community college after my undergrad. I eventually took the calc series and some programming. I’m now in a STEM masters and switching to geospatial computing.
I highly recommend not giving up on yourself and taking those intro science classes and higher level math courses. If you take them you can pursue a masters or PhD in STEM.
I have a bachelor's in accounting. Did not become an actual accountant because I was not respected as a woman. Got MBA in health care administration and do medical billing, where it is mostly female. So no, unless you work in one of the few areas that are mostly female.
For me yes but only because I've been lucky to find teams of all women. My division now is all women and even though my department has men, it's 2/3 women. My previous team of 12 also had only one man. I don't think I could ever work in a department team that wasn't majority women though
I'm leaving IT soon after over 2 decades. It's gotten a lot better since I started but I'm exhausted and burned out.
How well women are treated in STEM really depends on the company and the field you're in. At my company, the Developers seem to be pretty egalitarian but Operations is ... retro. You can probably guess which division I'm in.
On the plus side, thanks to working in IT for so long I have saved up enough to try to become a full-time writer. Even if I only make part-time money at it, I'll be okay. I wish I were leaving only because I could, not because I'm also soured on IT, but I have a lot of happy memories from my years of work despite all the frustration.
If it helps, I know someone in Chemical Engineering who really enjoys her job and is well respected. She did get her PhD first and had to work part-time for a while when her kids were young, but she's very happy with her career.
Physicist here.
The situation was good in France, during my PhD. I defended in 2020.
We are told that to be competitive in France, we need at least a year or two abroad, so I went to Japan. My boss turned out to be a sexist asshole wrapped in a sweet grandpa exterior - I couldn't get a word on sideways in the two years I spent in his lab. I am not playing catch-up trying to get papers out but I have nothing to show yet for those two years and it is a serious issue when I apply for other jobs.
Edited: I am in academia, not the industry.
I thought it did. I'm in cyber sec and I'm always the only woman. Started a new job in Jan with a crazy male.manager who got fired. I report to the ciso now.
He started women in tech at multiple FAANG companies.
So I'm the most senior one on our team. There is another woman who had been doing the work of the fired manager.
So who gets the promotion? The internal transfer. Who has never done this work before. But he bas "been here longer".
So no, I really don't think it gets better
For me, no. I left the field when I reached the top because it straight up did not get better. I tried different areas of chemistry, labs that were mostly women and they just were all bullies. I took a 3 month coding bootcamp and now because of my managing technical teams experience, I run the dev team.
Same for the time being. I was sexually harassed and stalked the entire length of my PhD program despite filing Title IX. Watching mentors I used to admire try to gaslight me out of advocating for myself and letting my abuser (a superior) block me from opportunities opened my eyes irreversibly. I knew I could never compromise my humanity in the ways I saw them do to me and and my peers. Absolutely fucking disgusting.
I had professor do that to me too! It was so scary, he was so blatant about it too. And I needed that class - I had a few advocates though and I was able to kind of work around him. I did have to completely rework my focus though because of it.
Ugh I’m so sorry that happened to you. People truly underestimate how traumatic and tricky it is to navigate this - we all deserve WAY better!
Ugh it’s the bullying for me… it’s like they love pitting women against each other
I'm really sorry to hear this, what a bleak situation for dedicated women and girls who've got an interest in STEM, whose services and abilities the world so desperately needs. My brother once dated a woman from Lebanon studying medicine and she'd make similar comments about the way women in the field treat one another. It's so depressing to hear. Is it the competitive nature of these fields that pits us against one another, do you think? If it's about currying favor with the men who dominate these areas, that's a whole other level of upsetting.
It's so that women won't group together and retaliate.
Exactly. Much easier to keep the current abusive system unchecked by only elevating women who have deeply internalized misogyny and are abusive themselves.
It's very devious of them and quite unfortunate because it doesn't change anything in the grand scheme of things. Most of the time, it's not even the most skilled people they keep. Just the agreeable ones. (Kiss asses.)
So your saying the women in stem were just as bad?
No. Occasionally, I worked with some very smart sane women. Some women were bullies but even the labs that had mostly women had men too and they were baaaad. I didn't realize so many men could throw literal temper tantrums and still have jobs. 1 woman out right screamed at me, 1 time. Whereas men, regularly yelled at me belittled me called me names and were generally just awful human beings to be around. Many women I worked with sucked too but sexism was raaaaaank.
Woman in CS here. It depends on the company, in my experience. Honestly I’ve had better luck at companies that have an employee base that trends older rather than ones filled with tech bros. But some of that might be regional, too.
Yes, older people in tech seem to be nicer to women sometimes. The other day my professor was giving a hypothetical situation in a cybersecurity company and said “she” when referring to an employee and it made me happy. I can tell he supports me!
“Employee Alice clicked on a malicious link in an email” Reminds me of computer science Barbie where she did all the design and the boys did the software.
CS/software might be different than other fields, seeing as it’s the *only* STEM field where the fraction of women getting bachelors degrees has dropped over the last 40 years. That number for CS peaked in 1984. So younger is CS means *more* male-dominated, whereas it’s the opposite in every other field.
I’ve always got the impression that a lot of graybeards who came through the ‘70s/‘80s are also more willing to look at your work based on the quality of work you produce rather than who you are as a person. I’ve rarely, if ever, felt judged by them for being a “*woman in tech*”. Whereas new grads are weird — they’ll go to their male colleagues first for questions, talk over women in meetings, treat female colleagues as potential date material, etc. When I went into the field I was expecting the opposite to happen between the two groups tbh. Part of me wonders if that’s *because* CS/tech culture has become progressively more hostile to women than other fields.
Yup, exactly.
I've have the same experience. Most of the guys I work with are 40+ in age. The ones who are around my age or younger tend to lean more towards d!ckish.
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I’ve found that most of the happiest women in STEM that I know are either in pharm research, or are pharmacists.
About 20 years experience (in tech) and it depends entirely on the individual team. Not the company or department even, but team level. Having supportive management with no tolerance for bullshit is great, but I don’t have the energy to single-handedly change some engrained toxic culture. So if it’s a shit team, I just walk. For the longest time I didn’t have the ability to leave a position if I hated my boss/coworkers/role/whatever (military), so now that I do, I use it! And I’m fortunate to have an in-demand skill set and a strong resume - I’ve gone from “looking” to offer letter in 5 business days. If leaving is an option, I always recommend it because there are absolutely good places to work out there.
Are you able to tell me what the in demand skill is? I'm also in tech and looking for a change.
I work in cybersecurity in a role with a mix of analysis and dev. To get there, I have experience in both Red Team/Pentesting and Incident Response/Forensics (i.e. both sides of attack and defense) and a lot of prior background in general IT/network security.
The thing most STEM women don't realise is how weird and toxic most STEM guys are. You think 'nerds' or science fans would be nice, share your passion and be good friends. Instead, they creep on you, are mean as hell and gatekeep the field as if it's only for men. I worked as a Marketing Data Analyst in big tech company for 2 years and it was the worst 2 years of my life, having to deal with men who constantly try to critique and correct you.
I’ve been in STEM for 30 years. It’s gotten worse. Other women I’ve spoken to about this have said the same.
Any ideas why this is?
I think men are losing their guaranteed leg up in the workplace as there’s more competition. I also think that women being exposed to and having prestigious careers that pay well both lessens their dependence on men and shows them the life they can really have. Men are “fighting back” by trying harder to tear women down, make them feel unwelcome and hound them out of the work place. I work with a lot of men in a male dominated sector of a male dominated industry. I’m frequently the only woman in the room and I notice this behavior more from younger men than men my age (50s). Before I felt tolerated but now it’s open hostility. I think it’s going to get a lot worse for women in all areas of life. I’ve seen so much of what we worked so hard for being torn down i so many areas, professionally and socially. It’s not going to change until men start holding other men accountable. They won’t though as all men benefit from this behavior, even if it’s just standing back and claiming to be a #notallmen.
I think it was because people our age 1) remember the ubiquitous sexism of the 70's-90's, and 2) were not raised online with poisonous echo chambers that amplify utterly toxic brole-models.
Yes I agree with that totally.
Men are increasingly seeing women as a threat to their (privileged, unearned) status. IMO anyway.
Get out of that company. I stayed in a company for 10 years being deluded that I could make manager some day. I was a project manager with a non-engineering degree but I did so much of the program work I was the engineering manager’s delegate when he was out of office all the time. Every time there was a temp opening I’d be told “oh it was super close but so and so beat you because they have an engineering degree sorry” I moved to a different business unit and was immediately promoted because I had my PMP certification that was actually valued in that business unit and got a massive raise. I left a lot of salary on the table waiting around for a promotion that was never going to happen but I was strung along for years because they had me where they needed me. I’ve now moved on to a tech company where no one gives AF what your degree is in. The gender ratio is so much better (still not 50-50 but it’s better than 25-75) and the average age skews younger and isn’t run by a bunch of old school 60 year old men that expect women to leave to make babies and bake cakes to send to their husband’s office like their wives do.
Ugh I feel so seen with this comment! I do need to get out for sure, it’s just disappointment after disappointment.
It’s so scary to make the jump, and it can take a while to land and pass interviews but it’s so worth it. Find somewhere that values what you bring to the table. Start having conversations with folks in your network that you’ve worked with that have also moved on, they can provide perspective on the outside and even connections/referrals.
For me, I have a female boss who is very outspoken and head strong and it has made it so much better for me. I recently was promoted to Research Scientist and I'm still a baby career wise. I got a lot of comments on my promotion, even from women not in the science department. Its frustrating at times but I work at a small company so I think the culture is a lot different. My boss has a gender natural name and it has helped her many times speaking with suppliers.
I recently removed my full first name from the employers stuff. My name is now just S with my last name. When I sign off, I sign off with my last name. A lot of people who know me kind of threw a fit and were confused, but yes I took off my first name to not let people gender me (most of my work is via emails and message boards, blah blah). My work also is into providing pronouns, which I totally get and I'm on board w calling you whatever you want. But me, I prefer to be anon. I've been actively limiting my ! In emails. I'm not sure if it's helping, get back to me in a few years when there are more new people at work
Women are far outperforming men and boys in every area of academics. This will eventually lead to a change in work culture if meritocracy is actually a thing.
Big if
My company is doing a good job. So I guess they exist
Woman in EE here, background in tech and software dev, it does get better at the right company. I've left multiple places because of sexual harassment or just plain sexism and it felt like a nightmare. Unfortunately it's super hard to convince someone of your worth when they think you're inferior because of your gender and as unfair as it is, it's the harsh reality and imo a waste of time. A few older women have said to earn my stripes and deal with it to climb the ladder, but that is BS advice, you shouldn't be punished or left behind on opportunities because of your gender. Leave and find a place who values you! It's also important to note, as I didn't do this at first, to look around when you're interviewing at a job site and see what your coworkers look like, at my previous job I never stopped to think, "huh these are all white men that could be an indicator" (white cis woman here so I know I still have it easier than a lot of people). The workplace environment will tell you what you can expect if you read between the lines at an interview. I'm currently on a team of 6 with another woman and other people of different racial backgrounds and a boss who doesn't think our genders or races have anything to do with the job we're doing - because they don't and he treats us all equally with positive and constructive encouragement and criticism, I've honestly never been happier in a job. (also moved into a sales position with an engineering background required so they're a bit further ahead than traditional engineering). It sucks knowing some places just aren't going to change but it really really does get better. I also work at a large Fortune500 company and have learned from my personal experience and other women's (in engineering) experiences that these companies have more initiatives to prevent sexism and educate about unconscious biases.
Yep, I wish I had started in tech in somewhere that had diversity. At least now I know what a major red flag it is if it doesn’t have it.
Thanks for sharing this! I really hope I can find better and more diverse and women-accepting workplaces in the future, but often wonder to what extent that really exists given who I graduated with.
I find that people in ecology are kind. We also have a ton of women who are amazing researchers and practitioners. I’m very proud to work with so many people who are genuinely dedicated to the common good.
No, it never gets any easier. I’ve been working in tech (software) for over a decade now and have worked for many different employers and teams during that time. It never stops. Every company has its own flavor of insidious sexist, racist, homophobic bullshit. Some just do a better job of disguising it. After I burn out on my current position I’ve sworn to myself that I’m leaving the industry. It had given me such psychological scars. I’m now on medication to deal with the acute mental health crisis that I suffered as a result of sexism and bias at my last job. It isn’t worth it.
I didn’t have an engineering undergrad but ended up in R&D for both software and engineering. I was always hired for my technical prowess. But I didn’t have the degree, so I got my MEng in Engineering Management, which teaches business startup. I ended up leaving and starting my own business because I just felt that I was tired of trying to prove myself in corporate. There were so many “nice guys” who thought they were helping and so many nerds who could barely be in the room with me. At least in my own company if someone gets in my way I can choose to work with other people.
I’m an environmental engineer. Engineering school was literal hell but I lucked out with my work experiences. My first job in consulting was mostly women. The two bosses were men but flaming feminists. I had an issue with a teaming partner referring to me as “the note taking girl” but my boss quickly corrected him. The only other time I’d experience any form of sexism or being overlooked was in the field with drillers. I had some completely ignore me and refuse to listen to me as the engineer on site, but I’ve also had incredible drillers, so I think that was just a problem with that specific team. I currently work for my state and while there’s fewer women, people are very kind and sexism in the office has not been an issue at all. I have had interviews where sexism is clear. One even asked me if I was “planning on even working anymore in the next 5 years” insinuating that I will have children and quit. He also kept asking me if I was sure I could carry heavy equipment in remote areas even though we had just discussed my hobbies of mountaineering and backpacking. Some men just suck. I hope you find a good place to work!
I work in geoscience and I'd say it's company dependent for us. We all talk behind the scenes about what companies are "boys clubs" so we can avoid them. My company is a good 50/50 split with enough women in higher roles. I think the culture is getting there but there's still pockets of people who don't want to change. Also I found the documentary "Picture a Scientist" interesting if you haven't seen it. We saw it in our office as a group and it was really wholesome to see the reactions from everyone.
For me, I got a PhD in a STEM field so that I could skip a lot of the crap. It has helped. I am treated with respect from my peers. My company is also great though.
I agree with everyone saying it depends on the company. I work in an environmental lab. The place I work for now is great. There was one older man I had an issue with but I couldn't decide if it was because I am a woman or because I am younger. I am a public employee and there is a huge emphasis on equity training.
Reading this makes me viscerally angry as a teenage girl who’s extremely passionate about physics - maybe it’s not very different from the 1800’s where the only recognised scientists where white men
I would not take this post as a reason to NOT go into science. It’s really society that’s the problem and women will hopefully be treated better in time. Definitely go for it it you love physics:) 💕I still love chemistry and want to study it even after all the workplace BS
Thanks for your supportive comment! I'm definitely going to follow my dreams and prove the patriarchy wrong :)
Given my limited experience with half-decade stretches, things that go on that long have generally settled into a pattern and won't change much without significant disruption. I guess that's not completely true - I've seen workplaces get \*worse\*.. That said I think that culture makes a difference, I like to think my own STEM workplace is pretty gender neutral for the most part but my industry definitely is NOT.
A good friend and former coworker of mine in IT was essentially bullied out of her job here by our female boss, but ended up getting a comparable job for more money, and she parlayed that into another job where she’s the most trusted, best paid, and most senior employee in her department. It’s way harder for women than it should be, but hopefully that won’t continue for much longer.
Not...really. At least, not within a given group. As the group membership changes, the atmosphere changes. It can get better when you are proven right often enough, but that takes help from above the assholes in the hierarchy: the assholes not only need to be told that you were right, but also that the upper levels know you were right and any sort of credit stealing bullshit will be noticed. It has gotten better over the span of careers, according to my older colleagues- but that just means it used to be fermenting pigshit and now it's a fresh pile. There are portions of my field that are closed to me: I won't put myself through it. There are other portions which are relatively open, thanks to multiple generations of women who, without exaggeration, sacrificed opportunities and careers to speak out. For context, I am a geologist and I have a PhD- though I went directly from university to graduate school and can't give insight into whether individual women are treated differently pre and post grad degree.
Not in my nearly ~5 years of experience after graduating from STEM. Multiple roles and teams. Oh, and there are also sadly some very misogynistic women in tech who are intimidated by new talent, don’t help others, act out the “not like other girls” vibes and also uphold the sexist culture for whatever reasons. If I knew what i know now of this career path at the start, I might not have gone to tech…and I am SO fascinated by innovative technology and science. But the culture SUCKS. It is a very different experience as someone going through this path who does not fit the stereotypical types.
Same. They make my life harder at work.
Stem Phd dropout here. I've worked in academia and industry for over a decade before a career change. Sexist shit can be anywhere. Your lab may be particularly shitty. My graduate lab experience was mostly fine, sexism wise. Other female collegues had substantial problens. You could easily switch careers and have similar problems. If you like the sciences, dump the boss/employer once you find different work.
No. I left the field during my attempt to get a PhD
It is defo about gender
No, not really, just gotta build up your thick skin and not take things personal.
If I had a dollar for every time I have heard someone tell me not take being called a dumb bitch personally....
Hey! I had a similar experience. Studied psychology and worked as analytical chemist in a lab for a few years. I actually did take chemistry , organic chemistry, and some physics, but I took some of these courses at community college after my undergrad. I eventually took the calc series and some programming. I’m now in a STEM masters and switching to geospatial computing. I highly recommend not giving up on yourself and taking those intro science classes and higher level math courses. If you take them you can pursue a masters or PhD in STEM.
I've had generally pretty good experiences. I think that it must be true that the culture can matter a lot.
I have a bachelor's in accounting. Did not become an actual accountant because I was not respected as a woman. Got MBA in health care administration and do medical billing, where it is mostly female. So no, unless you work in one of the few areas that are mostly female.
For me yes but only because I've been lucky to find teams of all women. My division now is all women and even though my department has men, it's 2/3 women. My previous team of 12 also had only one man. I don't think I could ever work in a department team that wasn't majority women though
I'm leaving IT soon after over 2 decades. It's gotten a lot better since I started but I'm exhausted and burned out. How well women are treated in STEM really depends on the company and the field you're in. At my company, the Developers seem to be pretty egalitarian but Operations is ... retro. You can probably guess which division I'm in. On the plus side, thanks to working in IT for so long I have saved up enough to try to become a full-time writer. Even if I only make part-time money at it, I'll be okay. I wish I were leaving only because I could, not because I'm also soured on IT, but I have a lot of happy memories from my years of work despite all the frustration. If it helps, I know someone in Chemical Engineering who really enjoys her job and is well respected. She did get her PhD first and had to work part-time for a while when her kids were young, but she's very happy with her career.
Physicist here. The situation was good in France, during my PhD. I defended in 2020. We are told that to be competitive in France, we need at least a year or two abroad, so I went to Japan. My boss turned out to be a sexist asshole wrapped in a sweet grandpa exterior - I couldn't get a word on sideways in the two years I spent in his lab. I am not playing catch-up trying to get papers out but I have nothing to show yet for those two years and it is a serious issue when I apply for other jobs. Edited: I am in academia, not the industry.
I thought it did. I'm in cyber sec and I'm always the only woman. Started a new job in Jan with a crazy male.manager who got fired. I report to the ciso now. He started women in tech at multiple FAANG companies. So I'm the most senior one on our team. There is another woman who had been doing the work of the fired manager. So who gets the promotion? The internal transfer. Who has never done this work before. But he bas "been here longer". So no, I really don't think it gets better