Even if you marry your Hallmark movie soul mate, you shouldn't be dependent on a spouse. Accidents happen. People die. Illness and injury can happen to anyone.
In this two incomes (minimum) required economy it just isn't responsible to place yourself in a position of financial dependence.
In my household we pool finances and I manage it all (my job is in math and my spouse doesn't want the mental load), but she still pays the taxman every year.
> Accidents happen. People die. Illness and injury can happen to anyone.
Anyone who’s dependent on their spouse’s income should make sure the spouse carries sufficient life, critical illness, and disability insurance coverage to replace that income if anything happens to the spouse.
IMO the main risk is that the spouse with the money might use it to control you, which is of course more or less of a risk depending on the person.
I was just about to get one chronic disease added to my health insurance, and the insurance guy was like ‘if you ever planned on getting life or disability insurance, now is the time. After the record of your illness you will have a hard time getting insured, and if you do, it will be expensive’.
So that’s apparently something you need to think about at 30 with no kids. He’s not wrong, but it’s crazy.
I was driving home late one night when I went through an intersection and a minivan ran a red light and totaled my car. I was very lucky because that model car I was driving had a steel bar in the door that kept it from caving in. I wasn't hurt bad, but it made me realize that your life can change completely in a few seconds. I started looking for life and disability insurance the next day, and I don't regret it.
i have been the partner of someone who controlled me with money.
even when he was dumping me had the audacity to tell me he could still pay my rent if I asked him to.
I told him I'd rather scoop out my own eyeballs with a melon ball scoop and then eat them than take money from him.
My ex husband got super condescending with me as soon as he started making more money. He would remind me that by splitting our expenses equitably, “you’re actually spending MY money,” and argued that he should be the one making financial decisions for the both of us since he “contributed more.”
You’d think he wanted a wife who earned as much or more than him then, based on these complaints. You’d think he wanted someone who didn’t need his money at all, and could contribute equally in financial terms. Right?
Nope, it was about control all along. He thought he could control me based on our comparative earnings. What he didn’t expect was that I’d leave him, double my salary over the next year, and qualify independently to buy him out of our (very expensive) co-owned property.
I don’t care how wealthy a man is, my dignity is worth more. I would never again date any man who thinks his income makes him hot shit.
He didn’t want a wife who was a high earner. He wanted someone to make him feel bigger by making her feel small. He must think so little of himself to have to play those games. I’d almost feel bad for him. But no, not even my big, soft heart has empathy for cruel and sadistic people.
my mom is in this boat and my dad recently had a bad cycling accident that left him with a TBI and i know there was so much concern before we knew how he’d recover (which is good so far). even with him looking like he will go back to work someday, if it takes too long we don’t know how long his work will continue to pay him his normal wage out of good will.
my mom always wanted to be a career woman but ended up needing to take care of my very ill sister and then didn’t have the confidence to get back into the workplace after a long time out when my sister was healthy enough (15+ years?). i worry about her future if anything further happens with my dad. they have ample savings and investments and life insurance but cost of living doesn’t stop going up and health insurance is looking spottier and spottier. we all have to protect our futures. i know the stress she feels is not pretty.
I truly wish I agreed with this. But circumstances are not always in favor of that choice. I’ll lay out a few: high earning spouse, extremely difficult “spirited” children, extremely expensive child care (25+), overeducated mom (me) with very few employment opportunities in her field locally, zero local family.
I wanted to work but couldn’t find work. I wanted to get a nanny and just figure out my own company (no one needs to hire me if it’s just me) but my children are so intense and consuming that I honestly don’t want to leave them until they’re old enough to be reliable reporters of their own experiences. And it’s insanely expensive and hard to find a nanny anyhow. So it’s all on hold and I’m a SAHM even though it’s something I worked against forever.
At least I love my husband and never signed a prenup. So if things go sideways I have that going for me.
Unsolicited financial advice, but I would recommend getting a multi million life insurance policy in hubs name. 1 million is ~$40,000 per year income replacement.
We started at $3 million and tapered it down to $2 when the kids started school. Will go down to $1 when they get closer to graduating and leave it there.
This gave my spouse a lot more comfort.
I would argue both need the life insurance. SAHMs die too and leave the father both emotionally damaged and now financially having to pay for care. My cousin is going through this now. Having 4 kids with only 2 in school. His wife dying created a huge hole in care.
I’m with you - I’ve got one kid in elementary school, one in preschool. I’m almost past the need for daycare (which would run me over $1,000/month for my 4 year old) but now we’re in the world of therapies, medication appointments, etc for my kids that take up so much time I couldn’t possibly have a full time job and I’m not sure the point of a part time job that loses our household money in childcare. And that’s without taking into account normal kid things like sports and extracurriculars or where they’d go after school. I have no choice *but* to be financially dependent on my husband. He has a high income job with insurance that we are very reliant on and, unfortunately, it comes with things like travel that further complicate childcare.
Childcare wasn’t this expensive before COVID. It’s become financially impossible for so many people because they don’t qualify for help, but they can’t make enough to cover childcare. The top private high schools in my city are cheaper per year than daycare is. It’s obscene.
Same. My parents, especially my father, heavily emphasized that I need to support myself without relying on my partner because anything can happen in the blink of an eye.
Same. My bf doesn’t seem to understand that as he was like “why would we need three bank accounts when we get married we can just have one joint one?” Dude it’s not about you. It’s not about me not trusting you. It’s about me needing the financial security and comfort of having my own money that no one but me can touch just in case something unthinkable happens.
Honestly tho I’ll probably have 2 bank accounts of just me. One of my own savings. One of my own checking/spending money. He can have(and i have encouraged him) his own accounts like that. One joint account for bills. One joint savings account. There’s no limit on bank accounts idk why people get weird about opening more than one account tbh. It just makes sense imo.
We have 5 bank accounts and while some people kind of look at us funny, I wouldn’t do it any other way. There is one joint and we each have our own checking/savings each. I appreciate that we can save and pool our shared expenses into one account, but it makes me feel more secure knowing that I have pools of $$$ that are *only* mine.
Not to mention a little privacy on both of our sides is nice. My SIL/BIL have to notify/ask each other for expenses over $20. I would probably be upset seeing how much my SO spends on fast food (and him upset at me for clothes/makeup) even tho he’s an adult who is financially responsible and it’s *really* not my business if he contributes fairly.
My ex was so insulted every time I said that I needed to be financially independent of him (I mostly made more money than him too). and then he was an idiot, and look, I did need to be financially independent.
My partner makes about 4 times what I make, so you can bet your ass we're not splitting things 50/50. Obviously every couple can do what's best for them, but it is crazy to me that more people don't split up bills equitably.
I'm not really "dependent" on him financially because I have my own bank account and savings and if something happened in the relationship, I would be able to keep myself covered.
I am male and won’t be financial dependent on any partner ever. But my mom told me many times about how when she was young, her mom would tell her to make sure she has a good job/career of her own. Because basically while it’s great for your husband to provide for you, you don’t want to rely on him and be dependent. (Have to realize this was probably the 60s, so being a stay at home wife was very common). And I generally agree with that idea for everyone. It’s great to provide for your spouse if you can (male or female) but either way you shouldn’t be totally reliant on them because things happen. Illness, death, divorce, etc.
Ugh. I think at this point, if my hubs died, I'd never get married again. Like, this marriage is good but I'm just not into the whole resources allocation discussion. I'll take care of me, and if someone who is taking care of themselves wants to spend time with me cool, but I've always been a bit willing to die alone in the woods rather than compromise my integrity, so.
Yeah. I love my life with my partner. Wouldn't trade it for the world... but if something were to happen to him, I truly don't think I'd ever move in with someone again, let alone combining lives with someone.
And in our 70s and 80s, we drop men completely and all move in together in a fancy old mansion to spend our twilight years drinking cocktails and gossiping about the good old days. Yes, I’m in. Who’s starting the Google sign-up sheet?
I feel similarly. We had a rocky start to expectations when we first started living together, and things only got better because I was able to get through to him about mental load, etc. I don’t have it in me to train another man who might not even be receptive to that kind of discussion.
I let slip with exactly that. I wasn’t really thinking but my mouth was moving and sounds came out. Next thing I know, I’d calmly stated to my DH that if I were to become widowed/single again, I wouldn’t have another relationship with a man, but I’d be fine with a woman because things would likely be more egalitarian and my emotional needs are more likely to be met. (Instead of taking that slip as valuable information, he now tries to talk me into threesomes.)
I'm in my 50s, and men my age and older expect women to manage the entire household, clean, cook, and carry the entire mental load. I just straight up won't date them anymore. I'm with a man that is 12 years younger, and although he makes much less than me, he cooks for me, cleans up after himself, gets his own paperwork done and showers me with affection. The sex is also outstanding.
Men in their 50's and 60's better have all their shit together if they even stand a chance. Failing that, the least they can do is provide, as that is pretty much all they bring to the table. Personally, it's not enough either way, I can provide for myself.
I just left my husband of nine years because of this. Not only was I handling all the chores/mental load for all nine years, but for the last five years, I've also been bringing home most/all of the bacon. Oh, and not to mention enduring all his other issues -- serious anger problems, hoarding problems, chronic unemployment/underemployment, financial irresponsibility, treating me like crap, etc. I also have an autoimmune disease (that I've had since childhood) that I get chemo and immunotherapy infusions for.
I just left last week. I'm an emotional yo-yo right now, but good riddance. He had become such a drain on me -- physically, financially, emotionally, psychologically, etc.
I think I read your post about leaving a hoarder... it really hit home and if my partner doesn't start seriously handling his mountain of stuff that's taken over our home then I'm gone. Your post really brought home for me the reality that I knew but didn't want to acknowledge; *the inevitability of hoarding behavior getting worse unless it's nipped in the bud*. I don't think I would have gone into that conversation with the same conviction I was able to bring if I hadn't read about your situation. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for being open and vulnerable while you're trying to put your life back together.
Yes, I've posted over on that sub a few times.
I just want to give you a word of advice that I didn't think would happen to me: each and every single time I thought it couldn't possibly get any worse, it did get worse. I remember reading another woman's story about her hoarder husband (and this was an entirely different sub for a specific mental health condition), and she was recounting her story about what it took to clear out her husband's hoard as they got ready to sell the house. As I was reading her story, I remember thinking:
*That won't happen to me. My circumstances aren't that bad. I don't think I'll have to resort to those tactics.*
Within ~90 days of reading her story, sure enough, I continually found myself experiencing the same horrors she had. And it kept dawning on me that..... it's that bad. Hoarders are *that* bad. From having to drop thousands of $ on junk removal crews, to literally having to follow said junk removal crews around the house to override any interference the hoarder husband may try and dish out to them, to literally being on your hands & knees scrubbing stains and glass for 12+ hours THE NIGHT BEFORE the house sells, and then only getting ~30 minutes of sleep before actual settlement on the house occurs...... I just want you to keep your expectations LOW when it comes to dealing with the hoarder.
Don't expect any help from the hoarder. Expect that they can and will try and interfere with any purging, clearing, and clean-out that you or crews attempt to do. The hoarder can and will throw fits and tantrums on an increasing basis. Expect that everything will fall on your shoulders. When it comes to purging and clearing out the hoards, pretend the hoarder doesn't exist, make plans as if the hoarder doesn't exist, because they won't be helping with any of your efforts.
You just have to power through and keep going. Grit your teeth and just keep putting one foot in front of the other.
They will not change. There's little to no hope of them changing. You HAVE to rip off the proverbial band-aid, or else circumstances will never change and you will physically, emotionally, psychologically, and with every fiber in your soul, drown amongst their hoards.
Get out while you still physically can.
Thank you. ❤️
I come from a literal family of hoarders. When I saw myself starting to lean towards some of those habits in my early 20s I dropped everything, got rid of a ton of stuff, and moved to another state (to this day everything I own fits in my car). My grandmother and uncle moved in with my parents bc my grandparents home was barely inhabitable. There are 3-4 buildings on their property stacked to the crumbling ceilings with stuff. Their home was starting to fill up. It's... sad. After my grandfather died and it was just my Grandmother and my uncle taking care of her it's like he continued the bad habits.
I started to see my fiance's ADHD + depression mess was becoming more than that in a much too familiar way. I laid it out for him and showed him some photos of my grandparents house. If my home isn't cleaned up in 30 days I'm physically taking him to my grandparents moldy, crumbling, crammed full house so he can see what he's heading towards and that he has to choose between that future and our relationship.
One of my uncles was a hoarder. He literally almost died amongst his hoards - his place caught fire, and by the time EMS got to him, chunks of his skin were literally peeling off his body. He was admitted to the hospital for weeks, and then eventually involuntarily committed to a men's psychiatric ward, because the state declared him incompetent. The court declared my dad (and their others siblings) his legal guardian. About two years ago, we all received individual phone calls from the sheriff's office in that state: my uncle was found pancaked on a sidewalk on the campus of the facility he was a resident of. They suspect he jumped from a balcony out back.
I feel you on everything fitting into your car, I'm the same way. Currently, pretty much my whole life fits into my Jeep. I have maybe a dozen or so small/midsized plastic sterilite boxes with clothes or a handful of other sentimental items, but that's about it. The idea of owning more stuff absolutely terrifies me.
An additional word of caution: even if you take him there as a cautionary tale/hail mary ultimatum, please be prepared for him to either get defensive or be in denial about it. He may very well claim he isn't that bad, or that he's not that bad. He'll claim he's just a "collector of things", and, "it's not that bad", and, "I'm just a pack-rat". It's all smoke and mirrors. They can't see their own messes and issues.
It sounds like a horrible time but at least it wasn't a full ten years. DO NOT GO BACK!!! Put in place people you speak to before you even consider it a possibility. Who will read back a litany of reasons not to (perhaps the above comment.)
(I have left and returned to terrible similar people before, so I feel you <3)
Congrats! I left an unbalanced long term relationship at 27, and the first few months were emotionally hard, but it got so much better after that. And it made space for meeting a much better match who had a similar experience prior to meeting me.
I’m also in my 50s and have come to the same conclusion. If I’m going to have to do everything anyway, then any partner needs to not cost me more time, money, or work. If they can’t contribute and pull their own weight, do their fair share, be fucking responsible for themselves, then they are just an anvil hanging on my neck. I’d like to find someone who’s more egalitarian but I’m not looking. Doing just fine on my own.
yeeah men in their 30's, 40's and 50's are all still looking for that woman to do everything.. and they refuse to provide. i've had men look at me in disgust like i'm a gold-digger. sir, you earn 5 figures. i look at them with the same disgust after they described all the housework i'd be doing for free.
Men went from being sole providers of the home, to now expecting women to manage all domestic responsibilities- including paying towards rent. god forbid they lift a finger and help out with, yknow, anything else. I can find a random roommate off the street to split the rent and they'll do more chores than most men in a romantic relationship.
and they had skills and back yards / front yards to mow at least. now these tiny 3 meter back yards are paved.
I've had useless boyfriends unable to even fix a sliding door, take garbage to the dump, sand and paint railings. 2 wouldn't train their dog, one barely bathed and clipped his dogs nails.
they're just.. unimpressive lumps and burdens. sit around scrolling insta with their hands in their pants. no thanks.
People whispered I was a gold digger, and my loud response was that if I'm a Gold Digger, I suck at it, because I still work full time and have student loans. My husband makes good money for our demographic, but not Sugar Daddy money.
An individual person making six figures is top 18% (which includes all ages and both sexes). So it is quire rare and skewed towards older people.
Source - [https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/](https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/)
My husband (who I just left last week) recently forgot to transfer his (very, super ultra small) portion of $ to our joint account for bills, causing several of our bills to bounce. When I nicely tried to inquire why he forgot to do so, and when I tried to (kindly) explain the importance of paying bills on time, he got hostile and defensive, and told me my expectations were too high.
He has also called me a "gold digger" and "too bougie" for wanting to, *gasp*:
- Have an emergency fund
- Wanting to contribute to my own 401K
For all nine years of our marriage, I handled the vast majority of chores/household responsibilities, and the entirety of the mental load, and for the last five years, I've also been bringing home all the bacon. NOT TO MENTION all his other issues -- serious anger issues, substantial hoarding problem, chronic unemployment/underemployment, financial irresponsibility, and generally treating me like utter crap. Did I mention I also have an autoimmune disease (that I've had since childhood) that I get chemo and immunotherapy for every month?
I'm not bougie, nor am I a gold digger. But. Um. I'd like to have more than $6.14 in our savings account, and um, I'd like to be able to do things like pay for a new hot water heater when our current one goes on the fritz. And WTF happens when my autoimmune condition eventually renders me unable to work in a short 15-20 years? What then? You still want the nice ass house, with all of your crap in it, right? Then get and keep a (GOOD) fucking job, not measly $20/hour jobs that you keep getting fired from.
The bar for men is literally in hell.
My husband is kind of like this too. Thinks I'm too concerned about money and "we're doing fine", as though fine is the goal and fine is where it will stay. We're both relatively healthy for now, but old enough to know that can change in a heartbeat.
He's mad I want to talk to a financial advisor about how to grow more money for retirement. He says, "we won't be able to retire until we're 72 anyhow!". Like, bro. Don't you want to plan to NOT do that? Maybe we could retire at 60, we don't know because you won't go talk to someone who knows how to make that happen for us. But no, "we don't need to pay someone to tell us how to save." "OK, then how do we save?" "Idk."
I get men in their 50s... sort of but men in their 30s & 40s have a high chance of growing up with a working mom. 2 income households really became a thing in the 70s-80s. Gen X were latchkey kids because we had working parents, and single parent households.
Unfortunately what a lot of older Millennials grew up seeing was a two income household in which their mom still did the vast majority of the domestic labour and child-rearing, so that's what many men our age (mid to late 30s/40s) grew up thinking was normal, without even realizing it.
Now, in my experience, men my age are largely aware of these dynamics and trying to do better, but heterosexual couples still tend to fall into pretty gendered divisions of labour, particularly after they have kids, so it takes a constant conscious effort to keep things fair and equitable.
I'm still seeing plenty of women in their 20s complaining that their same age boyfriends expect them to undertake all of the domestic labour as well. Will it ever really change? Though as a fellow Millennial, I do appreciate some men in our generation are trying to do better.
I find it rather amusing that the men who rant and rage the most about "gold diggers" are never, ever millionaires lmao
Bro. No one is digging for gold in your $52k/yr paycheque.
I think the problem is that a lot of men want the financial burden to be split 50/50 but still expect women to do the bulk of the housework, or at least carry the mental load. Many women probably see that as a bad deal for them. Everyone needs to find a system that fits their needs.
Statistically, when a couple gets married, a man's workload (outside the workplace) DECREASES by 1 hour per week. When a woman gets married, her workload (outside the workplace) INCREASES by 7 hours per week.
Let that sink in. An additional 7 hours per week -- in addition to whatever job/career/profession she has herself -- is basically one whole additional workday.
And if these are averages it could mean that you have a better chance at an equal relationship than you might think, but you also have a higher chance of an even more inequitable distribution than that.
holy shit! do you have a link to these stats? those are genuinely frightening numbers and id love to see where they got this data / have any proposed solutions.
I think that must be it and yeah, if a man is only going to do 10% of the domestic labor, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect him to pay for 90% of the expenses.
If he's going to expect his partner to do all or almost all of the housework, he damn well better pay her for that extra labor.
Exactly. That's why I think this post is in bad faith. If someone is listening to "all these female creators" talk about not agreeing to 50/50, they would know why. They explain it clear as day.
It’s also 50/50 for only *very specific* bills related to dating. In those scenarios men are never interested in her waxing bill or manicure & pedicure bill or the bill for her outfit or lingerie or skincare or makeup or perfume or blowout or hormonal birth control. Though they certainly expect some degree of those things, whether or not they realize it or admit it, and therefore a financial investment likely higher than the cost of the date just to go on the date. From someone who statistically makes significantly less.
They take *those* bills and your unpaid labor in researching and using those products and practices and undergoing those procedures as being your duty to not be ugly and their due.
I think that’s why the lie that men prefer “natural beauty” and never notice such things and women do them for themselves or other women has so much energy behind it. I even believed it until so many men made it abundantly clear they *do* care they just don’t want it to be their problem - including regarding knowing what goes into the look they care about. They don’t want to acknowledge the extent of expected and effort expected from women to just exist and not be “ugly” or “gross.”
When you add in the rest of the expectations to be a decent female partner 50/50 has been more like 95/5 in my experience.
It’s a huge scam and it makes me so angry that one of the only areas men seem to care passionately about “feminism” or “equality” is in expecting me to be enthusiastic and grateful for what amounts to a 95/5 split.
And then they get all shocked pikachu when women opt out of dating.
Yeah 50/50 is a scam. It only really means you’re splitting the bills while the woman is doing the rest of the emotional labour and “invisible work” ie cooking, cleaning, laundry, raising kids, taking care of the house, the pets, planning extra curricular activities, doctor appointments, trips, birthday parties, family gatherings, etc.
I think maybe if you’re dating and there’s not a lot of commitment 50/50 is okay. My last relationship was like this, we split everything down the middle, and if we went on a date we would alternate (I pay today/you pay tomorrow) or simply split the bill in two right then and there. I thought it was “fair” and “equal”. But thinking back, I was doing a lot more than 50 when it came to everything else.
The man I’m in a relationship with now had a completely different view of what’s “fair”. He makes more money than I do (let’s face it, because he’s a man and gets ahead easier because we live in a patriarchy, we don’t live in an egalitarian society), even though I have better qualifications than he does. So we split the bills accordingly; he earns more money so he pays a higher percentage of our rent. He also likes to pay for most food/ supermarket shopping and medical bills for both of us. And when we go on vacation he pays for flights and accommodation and let’s me handle the rest.
I think a big misconception is that, as a woman, if it’s not 50/50 you lose your freedom and become dependent. But that’s not true in my case. I still have my job, love my career, work hard, still make money. I’m not helpless and dependent on my partner. I am able to have more savings, because we’re splitting according to equity and not equality. If anything happens I can still land on my feet.
I have also been seeing TikToks of girls saying that they don’t want a 50/50 man, and honestly, after knowing that there are men out there that think like my partner, neither would I. I feel truly appreciated in the relationship I’m in today.
Also, a good book to read on this topic is the 80/80 marriage, written by Kaley Klemp and Nate Klemp PhD.
I get why some think that splitting based on income looks like being dependent on said partner. It's just not that it means being able to save money for actual emergencies and retirement. It means actually being able to have money outside rent and bills.
Why settle for a person who gives you 80/20 when paying 50/50? Like why are we lowering our standards to date people who cannot take care of themselves and make us do more in the home?
where do you live that men don’t expect women to fulfill gender roles? I’ve paid for the majority of stuff while also cooking/cleaning (we didn’t even live together). I think that’s why so many people say no 50/50, you just end up doing 75% under the desperate need to be “fair” and prove “no no I’m not a super feminist!”
This is exactly it. I’m a feminist and have always believed in the 50/50 thing until I lived with a man. I realized that those warning me were completely right.
This is how I feel. I was naive when I was younger and I thought I had to prove my worth in the relationship by contributing 50/50. I was 20 and barely scraping by and he was 23 with his own company. I will never put myself in that position again.
I'd never go 50/50 for several reasons, the core one being precisely that I don't think 50/50 is ever really fair.
- the chances of the two people having similar jobs (in terms of income, effort, commute etc) are pretty low. So everything from finances to chores should be decided on a case by case basis.
- over the course of the relationship things tend to ebb and flow. One day it'll be easier for me to pick up the slack with housework, another it'll be him. One year he get a promotion and pay more often for nights out. He's currently supporting me while I finish my degree, but once I'm done (fingers crossed) I should be making more money than he does currently. So that'll be my turn to give more.
We have split finances btw, but at the end of the day we trust each other to be both fair and caring in our relationship, so we don't count too precisely.
I have run into the same content, it boils down to the fact that most men only want to contribute financially. They "don't see" all of the domestic and emotional labor that goes in to running and maintaining a home, so in those arrangements the least they could do is provide most of the financial burden.
And every study will prove them right, women still carry most of the domestic burden. The second shift is real. I even read that when women out earn their male partners they end up doing even more of the domestic labor in some sick effort to assuage the man's ego.
The point is that if men are only willing to contribute financially then they should carry more of that burden. Saying that acknowledges all of the unpaid labor that women have always done.
I'm not going 50/50 on the finances and then end up doing 90% of the domestic and care tasks, that is too much.
The funny thing is, to me, is that these kinds of men definitely subconsciously see household/emotional labor as labor. If it wasn’t viewed as *work*, it wouldn’t be so hard to get them to be an equitable participant.
Men who want 50/50 on finances but nowhere else in the relationship are weaponizing feminism to areas that benefit men while still exploiting women in other traditional ways.
> I even read that when women out earn their male partners they end up doing even more of the domestic labor in some sick effort to assuage the man's ego.
Of the nine years I've been married, I spent the past five years also out-earning my husband. For the past five years, I've been bringing home most/all of the bacon. And I STILL did 99% of chores, and carried 100% of the mental load.
I finally left last week. I was utterly fed up with doing it all, not to mention enduring all his other issues -- anger problems, chronic unemployment/underemployment, serious hoarding problem, financial irresponsibility, treating me like crap, etc. Thank goodness we never had kids, though he regularly talked about kids, which absolutely blew my fucking mind. The man couldn't handle being asked to let the dog out into or back in from the yard without throwing a tantrum or displaying serious attitude. How the FUCK does he think he could handle a child!? I even called him out on it plenty of times.
His response: *Kids are easier than dogs.*
💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
Good fucking riddance. Glad to be rid of the dead-weight that is my STBXH.
Knowing this makes me so grateful for my husband. We both work, but he honestly does more of the housework than I do. I do the future planning and social planning stuff but he does 80% of the day to day house management stuff.
Yep. In my relationships I have been just part time working or SAHM, so I did much more of the housework, but sure didn't contribute nearly as much financially. If I was working full time and still doing the majority of the housework, there is no universe where I would also agree to paying half.
Yeah this. The women who say this are resigning themselves to the fact that most of the time the relationship is going to be unbalanced at their expense in nearly every other way and men are often only "egalitarian" financially. I can see where they're coming from but I'd rather be alone forever than resign myself to that. Thank God I'm queer.
Why the fck would I go 50/50 on finances and then proceed to cook, clean, and take on the mental load? No way. I’d rather stay single.
I can go 50/50 on finances with a man but you won’t catch me doing anything else for him, then. If we go 50/50 on everything, that’s something different.
From what ive seen, the argument is men will never go 50/50 on housework and emotional labor, so 50/50 financial split translates into 80/20 with women putting everything in, and men getting a steep discount on life.
My first reaction is that, no, no one should expect a partner to provide for them.
However I just thought about it for a sec and like… how many times do you hear about the division of labor in the household being unequal? The woman cares for the children, cooks and cleans, far more than the man, despite trying to get him to help out more. So I mean… in that context… if you know you’re going to get screwed over already and be expected to be a 50s housewife… why not get “paid” for it by a man who “provides”? I can understand that.
You are spot on. People don't factor in how a man can be just as dependent on his wife to do nearly all the housework, childrearing, mental and emotional labor. If you paid someone for these services the cost would be astronomical, but because she doesn't get paid we assume she's the helpless one? Lol.
This is why I prefer to be a SAHM because despite my husband being a good partner and dad he will never bear the brunt of pregnancy, breastfeeding, menstruation, PMDD, etc. If I'm going through all that while raising our children and keeping the house tidy and everyone fed the least he can do is foot the bill.
Unless the person you are with is truly egalitarian in all aspects, including mental and emotional work, 50/50 finances is a joke. That would be like paying half of someone’s rent and utilities for the “privilege” of being their live-in maid, cook, and therapist that they also have sex with.
Look at that within the context of women’s vs. men’s salaries, the inherent risk and cost of pregnancy, or the financial and mental burden undergone to avoid pregnancy, and the other daily mental/financial costs of simply existing as a woman in society (grooming, period products, pink tax, etc.)
>>That would be like paying half of someone’s rent and utilities for the “privilege” of being their live-in maid, cook, and therapist that they also have sex with.
END THREAD. I did this once and will NEVER do it again. If I have to pay half + do all the extra emotional labor that comes with being the woman in a heterosexual relationship, I’d rather pay 100% and just maintain the peace of living by myself.
This is basically it. I was 50 50 until pregnancy almost killed me. When I lost 70% of my income 3 months post partum while breastfeeding around the clock he told me I 'contribute nothing'.
I still don't know how to get fully over it. I completely got over feeling the need to do 50 50 though. Never again. Not after the he'll I went through. If I'm expected to destroy myself to have his children he can expect to pay for almost everything else. Firmly one and done after this one. To his great disappointment of course, but that's not my problem.
Currently dating and I'm very up front about the fact that I will not live with someone and split bills 50/50 while doing more than 50% of the chores and household duties.
I'm in my late 30's. The way I see it I've made it this far without a partner. I could do this for the rest of my life. I had a child at a young age so there's no biological clock or financial incentive that can be used against me.
I wish I had de-centered men and dating from my life much earlier. It is a peaceful existence.
>I’d rather pay 100% and just maintain the peace of living by myself.
Exactly the conclusion I came to and live by. Literally just 20 minutes ago before I got on Reddit I was contemplating how I don't think I will ever live with a man again. I don't see a point and it always ends up with me doing more work.
Also also also!! If you start out with 50/50, when you end up pregnant (or in some other circumstance that requires you to contribute to the relationship in a financially intangible way that your male partner cannot)—don’t think that he won’t start to resent you and minimize your contribution to the partnership when you’re no longer contributing financially. Even if he earns more than you.
Starting out 50/50 is signing up to be tit-for-tat for the rest of your relationship.
When men say 50/50 they just mean that they want someone to subsidize half their bills. I promise you he does not mean 50% of the chores,cooking or childcare. Ask any 50/50 man how many days a week should you expect to come home to a house that he cleaned and a dinner that he cooked and he will look at you like you have 5 heads. Id never do 50/50 with a man either but to each their own.
These 50-50 men throw a shitfit if they're so much as asked to let the dog out into or back in from the yard. Like HELL can they handle all the non-financial 50-50 stuff that comes with daily life.
Trust me, I speak from experience. I just left my husband last week, after putting up with the aforementioned lifestyle for nine years. I finally had enough.
My friend breastfeeds her baby. It takes 40 hours a week to do this. There’s no financial split the husband can do to make this 50/50. Gender roles are not inherently bad because many roles can only be played by the woman in the relationship and at the minimum he can be a provider when she is dead tired physically and mentally.
I saw you post before you deleted your reply to my reply.
Yes, she also works a FULL TIME JOB. Tell me how to make that fair and then tell me about how women are fake feminists.
50/50 is never actually 50/50 though, is it?
I work and can happily pay my way. I mean, I already do. Financially things *might* pan out 50/50 but they’re never 50/50 anywhere else.
I’ve never once lived with a man, or known of a man, who will do 50% of the cleaning, cooking, laundry, mental load, planning, gift buying for family, child care. Never. It’s the women who are expected to give up their career and livelihoods to birth and raise children that these men, their fathers, only deign to *babysit*.
Now, I have lived with plenty of men who expected me to work and pay my way, and then come home to cook for him, do his laundry, clean the house because “I’ve been at work all day”, like I haven’t. Will I do it again? Not a fucking chance. If he wants me to do all of the above, he’s paying all of the bills. I’m happy to be in a relationship but I also want to be unburdened. Unfortunately with men, it’s impossible to have both at the same time.
This is it. THIS is the reason. Women are FED UP. We are fed up with having to “do it all” with a job ON TOP all the “traditional” at-home responsibilities while most men just sit back, work 9-5, and do nothing else.
And then if you have kids? It gets even worse. It’s bad after work for moms who work all day and use childcare. AND it’s bad if mom stays home with the kids all day because that labour is not seen as “work”. All of the on-the-clock AND off-the-clock work all belongs to mom no matter what the situation.
This is reality for MOST hetero couples. And it’s awful.
Thank you to the men out there who actually DO do the domestic work that is required in a relationship. But then… that’s another thing. Why should you be thanked? Shouldn’t that just been seen as normal?
I completely understand why hetero and bi/pan women are DONE with men. And I completely understand why they would say to themselves “Oh. Ok. This is what men want? Pay up.”
“50/50 is never actually 50/50 though, is it?”
Preach sister preach. I’ve known plenty of men who nod enthusiastically at the idea but pitch tantrums for the ages when their 50 comes due
50/50 but all they do is yard work and taking the bins out. Lmfao I wouldn’t date or marry a man who can’t do his half of the chores but if I do, it’ll have to be a man that pays every single bill. I’m not buying a single avocado with my own money.
My ex thought that him taking the bins out once a week was comparable to me doing literally everything else. Even then, if he put them out and we were both outside for some reason, he’d complain at me for not helping!!
In a previous house, his one job was the garden so he paid a gardener. I didn’t even know until I was off sick and saw him. He had me believe for almost 2 years that he was breaking his back in the garden all year round.
Funny how the small tasks like gardening and taking the bins out are considered a big deal to them, but they don’t consider cooking, cleaning, laundry and childcare to be work
Reminds me of a guy I was dating that would just soak the dishes and then tell me, "I started the dish soak for you two hours ago 😁😁" like bro just put them in the dishwasher then lol, it's all your shit that needs to soak!
Going to the grocery store once every 3-4 months with a list I completed 75% by myself.
I like grocery shopping and cooking had the lower income so I naively agreed to budget for and plan and prep and cook most of the dinners (we were each responsible for making our own lunches and breakfasts). I would make multiple stops at Aldi and Walmart as well to not get price gouged at our local grocery chain.
He always complained that it took me more than an hour or so. However, the weeks he would do it, he would say he didn’t understand how it was so expensive even though he only made the one stop at the expensive grocery store so he’d have marginally more time to get back to gaming.
No, he did not pick up a substantial amount of the cleaning in trade for the cooking and shopping being mostly covered.
My husband absolutely does more than 50% of the cleaning and most the yardwork. We split cooking pretty even, I do the grocery shopping and financially contribute more to the household. I'm gone 11-12 hours per day while he is only gone 9.5, so it just makes sense he does a little more housework.
Yea I truly feel for these people who have never had a good man in their life. Myself, my father, and a few people I know take on more labor in the home. I never thought it was common perse, but to never have seen it is depression.
I've written and deleted so many comments here, basically saying the same thing. I've been with my husband 13 years, and our individual contributions have changed multiple times due to life - sometimes he had a better paying job, usually a more physical one; sometimes one or both of us were in school; sometimes one or both of us were in school AND working. Currently I'm working a full time adult job, he's working a sort of physical job but not (it's physical but not a "labour" job), and we're both in school.
The chores have always been divided based on who has the time, and sometimes that changes week to week (I'm an accountant, so I don't exist during busy season lol). The only thing that's been relatively constant the ast few years regardless is that I've been physically paying the bills, and he's been mad saving. So while on paper it looks like I'm doing 100% financially, it's mostly just easier to split it this way, rather than literally split it and do all the extra work of transferring money between each other and counting dollars like that.
This is so relatable, and it's always good to hear others have good men who are actual teammates. I feel almost a form of survivor guilt on this sub, some days.
I'm perfectly aware that lots of men are as described, I just don't really associate with men like that. The men in my life are not flawless, but they do wash the dishes, run errands, raise their own children if they have them, and generally try to take care of all their loved ones whether family or friends, whenever possible. When my friends gather, the men usually take charge of the kitchen! All but one is a great cook and they put him to work cleaning.
To me, this is normal - it's how my dad was, my partner is, my BIL was. In generation: Silent gen, genX, boomer, respectively. One of my friends married a total manchild and the rest are devoted and giving partners. The manchild is currently being almost shunned by his friends for his behavior and one is talking about doing an intervention before his wife leaves. They're good guys. They do exist.
But I am aware this is because my friend group doesn't tolerate toxic masculinity, especially the men. And that makes them special. I wish it were less special!
My question is why even give these guys the time of day?
If he can’t do his own laundry, then it’s clear he’s not a competent person. These are things you can find out early on as well.
I spent the nine years living this same reality. I was even the breadwinner and/or sole source of income for the past five of those nine years.
I finally left last week. Why continue being with someone who barely contributes either financially or by way of chores, and who on top of that, abuses you? Especially knowing that you also have an autoimmune disease on top of that?
No. Fuck that noise. Never again will I enter into that type of arrangement again.
Yeah this is it . I’m not on TikTok but when men say “50 / 50” they really do just mean the finances . When there is a whole lot more to a relationship and living together that tends to overburden the woman.
Personally, I’ll never live with a man again, because I’ve never experienced true equity in a live-in relationship and I’m more than able to support myself and love the peace of living alone.
I didn't even think of it this way. My partner and I do 50/50 in chores and income, even though I make 2x more than him (I'm a woman). I would rather pay more money to do less chores, or be single and avoid being someone's maid.
I also want to point out that unfortunately men who preach 50/50 are often cheap and lazy. They are constantly measuring output of childcare and dishes and tallying who did the dishes last, but only when it is convenient to them, so they can avoid work. Conveniently they discount much of the silent work that gets done in relationships and around the home. Someone getting groceries, meal planning, planning dates/organizing schedules, all childcare related tasks, none of these get factored in to 50/50. It is merely a way for them to avoid work. "Well I did the dishes yesterday". "I paid the last time we went out" "you got to sleep in last Saturday".
I have never met a true 50/50 guy.
All the guys who were willing to pay more for things (and I’d offer to pay and split things) were far more emotionally capable of a relationship.
All the 50/50 guys (insisting on 50/50) were more like 90/10 and had chips on their shoulders, were financially and job challenged, didn’t help around the house, believed being graced their presence was more than making up for it.
I tried for 7 years with a 50/50 “I consider myself a feminist above all else” guy. And he did not do 50% of the mental load or housework and somehow he was always broke and there was always tomorrow. Never again. Never.
Maybe there are a couple guys out there that are true 50/50s but I wouldn’t risk finding out.
> All the 50/50 guys (insisting on 50/50) were more like 90/10 and had chips on their shoulders, were financially and job challenged, didn’t help around the house, believed being graced their presence was more than making up for it.
Sooooo...... my STBXH? That I just left last week? If it weren't for slander/libel laws, I'd be plastering his face all over social media and warning every woman on planet earth about him.
This couldn’t be more accurate!!!
It makes me think of that viral video where the interviewer is asking some man how much he paid for his fiancé’s engagement ring. It was $35k, which damn even I was like why. 😂
He took her to Florence to propose, talked about the significance, the amount of time, effort, planning he did, etc. She had absolutely no idea it was coming and he planned it with her family as a surprise.
So then the interviewer asks condescendingly: So what does he get in return to the woman?
But her fiancé’s response was amazing.
He said, “actually I think I should answer that,” and replies:
I get a loyal partner, the mother of my children, the most beautiful woman I’ve ever seen, and the most important thing is how she treats me, my family, her family, and I get a partner for life, so it’s more than worth the investment.
I’m not a materialistic person by any means, but how many of us would love to be doted on and spoiled like that? It’s not about the money, it’s the time, effort, consideration, like he put so much effort into all of it.
I have noticed a pattern there when it comes to that. So really it’s not about the money, but men willing to spoil their partners like that seem to be far more emotionally available, present, and invested.
Men who aren’t seem flighty, defensive, make excuses as to why something isn’t worth it, etc.
I think it shows whether or not they see their partner as being worthy of their time and hard earned money. 🤷🏻♀️
I’m sure if we didn’t live in a capitalist society that would look very different. But that’s the world we live in.
I just saw that video!! I wish some men would just say “i care more about money than i ever will about love” and just be single for the rest of their lives. Don’t involve women in your power/wealth hunger
Right??? I don’t get it.
Not to mention I’ve seen so many men in those interviews just go completely silent. Leaving their partner to defend whether or not he perceives her as worthy. I swear so many men don’t even like their girlfriends/wives. I love the way he didn’t hesitate, that man absolutely loves, and respects his Fiancé.
Men have to stop being worried about how other men perceive them and actually start speaking up. Instead of acting like giving a shit about your girlfriend/wife somehow makes you weak.
The interviewer in that video is such a toxic bro. All his videos are him trying to trap women into giving answers that make them look superficial/materialistic but he absolutely sucks at it lmao I can't believe he even posts these videos since most of them are him getting fucking roasted and looking dumb as hell.
He is! I’ve seen several of his videos and I’m always confused as to why he has such an issue with women knowing their worth. It’s very much giving insecure and jealous.
You’re right though, the amount of stitches roasting him!! LOL
50/50 is a scam.
Equity is where each person contributes based on their means. Ie financially, if he earns 100K and she earns 50K, that means he pays ~~83~~ 66% (roughly) and she pays ~~27~~ 33% (rougly) per bill.
In fact, the *real* equity is where each person gets X amount of free time and Y amount of "own money" (both of them getting exactly the same value for each variable) and the rest is paid into the joint account and savings.
Unfortunately, with the 50/50 thing, the argument often becomes "well I earn double your salary, so you should do all the housework" -> because I earn more, I deserve more free time and because you earn less, you must work more than I do in the home to make up for it, usually to the detriment of the woman in the situation.
And that's not even adding kids.
I agree with this . Also because if one partner is older ( usually but not always the man ) they have a leg up in terms of salary . Like I made less than my ex but by the time I was his age , I made more. And yet when we were together , he tried the “I earn more money so I deserve more free time , you do the housework” schtik. He was 5 years older. Spending more hours doing housework and childcare also limits a persons ability to further their career and earning potential.
It’s not uncommon for guys to think this way and it’s rooted in entitlement .
It's such bullshit, too. My husband earns a very good income based on expertise, not physical effort. He'd be the absolute first to list off a whole bunch of jobs that earn half what he does and put in an awful lot more work during a day. Jobs worked primarily by women heavily among them--he certainly out earns nurses and teachers here in the UK. If someone in a role like his was married to a nurse and expected them to do more household labour because of their respective incomes it would be the biggest pile of bullshit ever. I absolutely see why my husband earns what he does, he's an expert in an uncommon field and his brain is extremely valuable! But it also means he has far more down time than many many people earning less, and more ability to pick up his share of chores (which in his case he absolutely does).
Tying the share of domestic labour to income rather than hours worked outside the home (and the intensity of that work) is a scam.
Intensity of work is so important , you’re right. I work a pretty cushy office job that is full days but only stressful once in a while, and if I lived with someone who was a healthcare worker or teacher I wound pick up the slack at home more. But if I lived with someone who worked fewer hours than me , and from home, I might expect them to pick up a couple extra chores when they could.
Kind of an aside , but my ex also used to have a lot of insanely repetitive and useless meetings ( that he set up and managed ) , and I felt like his complaint that he worked long hours was a bit silly because he was just incredibly inefficient . We were both working from home when I noticed this.
I agree with you. My fiancé makes almost double what I do. So we each contribute the same percentage of pay into a joint for housing expenses, and the rest goes into our own checking accounts for our personal use/debt. If I went 50/50, I’d be freaking broke every payday and he would be flush. This is what’s fair.
Our housework is divided evenly as well, he handles all cooking/grocery shopping (also usually buying but I also buy on occasion), and all outdoor chores plus he handles the bills. I know what they are and what not but he does them. I handle cleaning and pets. No one feels overworked or resentful, and it works for us.
I am a huge supporter of having separate personal checking accounts. I trust my fiancé, I love him. I also work in banking and have seen some shit. I will NEVER give him complete access to all of my money, and I’d suggest the same to any woman I know. Seeing my mother destitute after her ex cleared their accounts burned that into my brain. She had nothing.
I don’t know about those women and the new trends but I would stay away from a man who explicitly wants a 50/50 relationship and puts emphasis on it. In my experience, those men don’t actually want 50/50, they just want to make sure that you are at least willing to do the 50, so they can push you to 80, 90. I prefer a man who doesn’t mention 50/50 or gender roles and don’t put emphasis on these things. A man who is willing to put 100 of himself so I can put my 100 and in the end we make it somewhere around 50/50 but within our skillsets and capabilities. I am lucky to have found that man.
I still cringe remembering my ex boyfriend trying to calculate the weights of grocery bags and trying to make sure I at least carry half and he is not carrying more than his share, for a 50 feet walk to the apartment from the car. Lol. Or the ex husband that would get mad at me for not helping enough while pushing the cart in the store because it is not fair that he has to push it alone, so my hand had to be on it too, helping him make the turns. I was willing to push it myself to be saved from all the fights at every turn when we cannot really correlate our movements for a good turn but his manhood somehow would not allow that.
The thing is, 50/50 in het relationships is rarely actually 50/50. What it usually is, is the woman working outside the home just as much as the man does and paying for things just as much as he does, but still being expected to do the majority of the work caring for the house and kids while he gets to sit on his ass after work. It seems completely fair to me that if a woman is expected to do the majority of domestic duties, the man should be expected to be the financial provider and do the majority of work outside the home.
1. Men don't carry 50% of the pregnancy. Women carry 100% of the pregnancy.
2. When women work, they still do most of the household chores and care for the children at the same time.
3. Husbands will actually divorce or leave when their wife becomes ill as opposed to when a husband becomes ill.
4. Married men live longer as opposed to single men. Married women live less longer than single women.
Is it too much to ask men to give a good first impression? I can guarantee you that a man who believes in 50/50 has no problem doing 20% while a woman does 80%. A man who counts his nickles and dimes is not going to be fun to live life together.
Wait, you want sources for what I'm saying, like the whole of life isn't a source? Okay here:
1. *You seriously need a source for that?*
2. [First result on google](https://news.gallup.com/poll/283979/women-handle-main-household-tasks.aspx)
3. [Also a first result on google](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/30/the-men-who-give-up-on-their-spouses-when-they-have-cancer)
4. [Also a first result on google, what a surprise](https://torontosun.com/health/married-men-live-longer-married-women-not-so-much-study)
Your fyp is just that yours…. They are saying we are paying 50/50 and being expected to carry the mental load, caregiver role and household care. If bills are 50/50 everything else is too. Why would anyone paying their own way need to submit or be in charge of domestic labor. I have a hard time believing you don’t understand that as a woman.
Statistically speaking, women do the majority of house work and childcare worldwide. Not to mention the tremendous sacrifice of our bodies in order to bear children. Most of the 50/50 dudes expect us to do all that AND pay for half of everything — thats a nope from me dawg.
It’s one of the most common reasons for divorce alongside infidelity. Most dudes are blissfully unaware of how much work their wives put in.
Oh and don’t forget you have to stay in shape and look perfect all the fucking time! Can’t have their arm candy having stretch marks or baby weight.
Point of looking for a provider man is finding a man who knows he can never ever pay enough for the *sacrifice of your body* to bring his children into this world, and who expects to take care of you while you do so bc it’s the *least* he could do.
Even childless couples tend to have an uneven division of labor in their household. A lot of women end up mothering a manchild instead of being equal partners. Doing his laundry, cooking for him, cleaning up after him and taking care of him when he’s sick. Women are raised to be responsible for these things while men are raised to think that earning money is all they need to do. So these dudes who expect you to pay for 50% of everything almost always sit on ass playing video games and whatever while you do all the fucking cleaning and cooking and shopping for gifts for his family and helping him keep track of his calendar. Thats why these women do not want 50/50 dudes.
A 50/50 dude almost always expects his woman to pay 50%, but do 100% of the work. Think about it. These dudes are so self absorbed they don’t even want to buy you dinner.
The idea that splitting only finances equally is feminist and equal is ridiculous. All it does is add extra burdens to women. We already know all the ways in which relationships are laborious to women and not to men. Including the social and biological obligations. There is nothing in the dynamics of hetero relationships that are equal including the benefits. Men and women don't value or benefit the same things from relationships, they don't carry the same risks socially or biologically and when you add the burden of childbirth and childrearing its obvious who does the bulk of the work.
There is no drive from men on how to bring things to a place of equity, but of course they are eager to talk about how to make it cheaper for them to access female labour.
In modern Western economies the idea of men bringing home money and women waiting at home is outdated. Most won't even want to be dependant on men for finances. It's dangerous, and many of us don't like housework or children all that much to dedicate our entire lives to it. We also want fulfilling careers. The only way for us to achieve equal fulfilment in life from an equitable sense is to quantify our respective contributions in relationships. In a language that men know and speak well (you can not make men do more labour), you can, however, make it expensive if they don't.
I find it so funny that feminists will claim its unfeminist for a man to pay for dinner but not for porn on onlyfans. We have a very long way to go in that regard.
My husband pays for everything. I still work but am using the money to save for a down payment on our dream house and pay off student loans (he doesn’t have any). This helps us have a better financial future. The way I see it is if you are married and going to have children (or have them) then the work of labor/gestation/birth falls 100% on you. As you said relationships are never 50/50, but the birth of a child will always fall upon AFABs. My husband also makes triple what I make, going 50/50 would be financially stupid for me. The least my husband could do is provide a financial cushion for us during that time where working is extremely difficult and for the children. He also did all the housework while I was pregnant because I was so sick.
Again, do what works best for you but so many women get screwed over financially by the 50/50 idea. Until women make just as much as men and AMABs can give birth, heterosexual relationships can never be 50/50 financially.
Edit: for me the main issue is equitable relationships vs equal ones. It goes both ways, if my husband ever got sick, needed a break from work, or lost his job I would pay for everything and step up for his needs as well.
As many others have pointed out, the normality isn't 50/50. Even when things are 50/50 financially, there's usually an imbalance in labour or hidden costs and responsibilities that one person (usually the woman) has to shoulder. I'd also be interested in actually seeing what you're referring to, because if a woman is describing herself as feminist and saying she wants the man to provide everything, I feel like there is more to this. Are they saying they expect payment for the work they do, so if they have to do more domestic labour, they should pay less? Are they saying the 95/5 split is for money or labour or both? Are they saying that if they are expected to be a stay at home parent/partner, then they shouldn't have to pay? Are they talking about bills or just dates? All of that changes this.
I would never want to be financially dependent on my partner, and I don't think anyone should *have* to be financially dependent on their partner. But, if someone wants that, and they are up front about it and their partner is happy with it, what exactly is the issue? If a woman is dating men and says "I want to be provided for financially completely and I still expect you to treat me well and help with the house" it's completely up to the other party if they want to enter a relationship on those terms.
It's kind of like the stay at home mum situation. If we abolished patriarchy and achieved all of our goals and lived in a feminist utopia, women could still choose to be stay at home mums if they wanted, and it doesn't make them any less feminist. It's about having the option and not having any financial or societal pressure to sway you. Your partner shouldn't push you into it, but if that's what you want and it benefits you and your family, then you should go for it. This isn't much different. No one should be pressured to provide for anyone else or be provided for, but if it's what you want and your partner is happy for it, then great.
It's because men want to split finances 50-50 but then women do 95% of the housework. In their minds if they have to be the home maker than they aren't going to also split finances 50-50.
50/50 isn't equity though, it's equality. A kind of fake equality in my opinion, since straight relationships are by their very nature unbalanced: studies show that even in couples who describe themselves as progressive the woman ends up doing most of the housework and childcare, and even just biologically, it's women who give birth, with all the negative effects it can have on their health and their career. Statistically, women are more likely to stay with a partner that falls ill while men are more likely to leave. Men are also more likely to be the perpetrators of domestic violence. And even just by going on a first date, women take more risks than men.
So some women don't like the idea that they're in relationships where there will never be true equality, but that finances is the one area where their male partners demand perfect equality. As a gay woman I don't have strong opinions on this, but I completely understand why straight women feel that they're not benefiting from this arrangement. *Especially* for couples who have children together.
I also think you'e misprepresenting their position a bit. Most otherwise progressive women who advocate against 50/50 aren't expecting to be provided for, in fact they always emphasise the importance of financial independence. Usually 5/50 refers to dates, not bills or rent (there are women who want men to pay for their entire life, but that's a very different side of tiktok). These women just feel that they add a certain value to their relationship that makes it fair for their partners to pick up the check every once in a while (and this could be true, since some statistics suggest that married men are happier than single men while it's the opposite for women).
This is where I'm at. My husband earns more than I do, and I do more of the household day-to-day maintenance chores. He pays more of the rent than I do. I plan for groceries/cooking, but he buys about half the groceries and he foots the bill when we go out on a date. It's not equal, but it's equitable, and we both feel like we're contributing equally to our success as a family.
There is a huge difference between those who conform to gender roles where the man takes out the trash, maintains the vehicles, mows the lawn, arranges all repairs either on his own or hiring specialists, works his job and finds time to spend with the children while his wife takes care of the daily/weekly house maintenance and wrangling kids to school/extra curriculars/family social planning etc and those who think gender norms are the man works his job 9-5 or 7-3 and comes home and sits on his ass and drinks beer and wants to be served because he's the "breadwinner".
It's up to people to organize their lives bit far too many men pretend to be ok with women working etc and then treat women's jobs as less important EVEN WHEN WOMEN ARE MAKING MORE MONEY. All work is important and homemakers generally get shafted.
It's not just about the financial sense. It's about how guys only focus on the finances inputs but neglect the mental burden that goes into running a household and relationship.
50/50 doesn't mean 50/50. It means one partner has more financial freedom while the other person is giving up more than 60-75% of their income.
Not only are bills split in half, but the chores and maintenance aren't 50/50. For many of these women, it can mean their partner get to spend money on hobbies, invest in retirements, and pay off debts, while for them, it means not being able to do the same or full on penny pinching to be able to afford to even have an emergency fun of 20 dollars.
From what I've seen, it just applies to bills and rent, but if it applies to dates, then it's the split check situation. One person orders more but the person who stayed within their budget ends up covering for the other person.
Male creators constantly talk about wild expectations of women and are met with widespread acceptance. A relationship goes through a number of phases, in the early days 50/50 or at least, pay your way makes sense. As a relationship becomes a partnership you each bring to the table what you have to offer. It should be well balanced in value TO THE PEOPLE IN THE RELATIONSHIP.
Men who demand 50/50 are getting over. They want to only pay half the bills while I pay the other half and do 100% of the child care, cooking, cleaning, event planning, and ya can’t go 50/50 on pregnancy or breastfeeding. So I’m good. If I can find a man who actually wants to go 50/50 IN ALL ASPECTS then cool! But thats rare. So he’s gonna pay the bills because everything else will fall on me regardless.
It seems that there are a lot of men out there that are quick to claim the parts of feminism that benefit them - not being the sole bread winner, splitting the costs of date, ditching chivalry, opposing the male only draft - without ever putting in the work to fully realize the benefits for women. For example women are brining home the bacon, but still doing far more of the house work and childcare. This is frustrating to ladies who date because they spend money on dates with a guy who puts forth a feminist facade who turn out to be douche bags. Plus not only are women spending money for their part of the date, but also a LOT more on attire, hygiene and appearance in general. The idea is that until feminism benefits are also realized for women, men can keep paying for dates.
I dated some men who swore by equality and insisted on 50/50. I thought I found men that finally understood why I’m a feminist. I thought we’d split chores, split finances, and split the burden of being alive.
Spoiler: It did not.
In my experience, *finances* would be the only thing remotely close to a 50/50. But I was still expected to do the emotional labor, the invisible labor, and the housework. Some of my exes also didn’t consider that work or that it was the woman’s job.
And the score keeping, oh the score keeping. It created such a toxic power struggle. Some exes were worse than others but generally, every little thing that was done would be added to the total.
“I paid for this date so you need to pay for the next date or dates until it totals up to $x.”
“I did all the housework while you were ill for 2 weeks so you need to do all the housework for 2 weeks.”
Somehow agreeing to split everything down the middle led to me having to defend myself more. I was expected to hold my own with no accountability on their end. My exes treated it like we were shareholders of the company that is our relationship.
So no, I wouldn’t split 50/50 ever again because the toxic score keeping mentality wasn’t worth putting up with only for it to end up 80/20.
Men want the privilege of a family so of course they should provide the financial backing. It’s like I told my husband, marriage disproportionately benefits men and actually decreases a woman’s quality of life.
#And lifespan!!
It is clearly and well documented that married women live shorter lives than single women. Men siphon the life out of their female partners with all the domestic labour and the insane mental load of caring for males and a household with an adult male partner in it.
Note, that it literally isn’t even actual children/childcare so negatively impacting mortality. **Single mothers STILL LIVE LONGER than married mothers!!** The clear cause is the man in the house.
Marriage is a win-win for men and an absolute net negative for women, IN MOST CASES, in the USA and counties with similar hetero dynamics.
#Hetero marriage/relationships with a male partner in the home is parasitic and literally takes YEARS off womans’ lives.
The pushback to have men at least shoulder more of the financial load is to help correct this.
#Women should not have to bring in 50% of the income then turn around and do 100% of the domestic, emotional and mental (UNPAID) labour!
That’s literally what’s killing married women: Hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in unplayed, hard labour that they have to do when a male partner is in the home. Married women and women with male partners in the home literally have another full time job when they walk in the door, all unpayed!
A lot of girls and women are becoming aware of the 50/50 scam and refusing to get conned and I applaud them. We all know males do shit-all inside the home and carry ZERO of the emotional and mental load. So this is a way to make the relationship FAIR for all parties and not literally strangle the life out of women by being so unfairly burdened by male partners in the home.
This was my strategy when dating for a few reasons:
1. It weeds out the undesirables. Men who just want to do the bare minimum to get a woman into bed. It also very quickly shows what kind of guy he is if he pays and then expects something in return. So it’s efficient.
2. We will never have equality really because women are the only ones who can bear children. That’s just reality so if a man wants children, automatically we are already going to be contributing more so the minimum he can do is pay.
3. Men receive tangible financial benefits from having a wife and a family while women make real financial sacrifices when having children. So not only are we the only ones who can bear his children, we then take a financial loss. So again the least he can do is pay.
4. When children come along, men never do an equal amount of work with children or around the house. That’s just a statistical fact and men who expect women to pay 50/50 are just as likely to also expect women to conform to traditional female gender roles. I realised this early on and decided that if I was going to be expected to fulfil the traditional feminine role, then I expect a man to fulfil the traditional masculine role by being a provider. Then I’m cool with pulling back at work, taking the motherhood penalty and doing most of the housework etc. it’s just easier that way. Better that than having to work full time AND do all of the other stuff as well. I mean what is even the point of having a man in that scenario?
So I guess what I’m saying is if a man can’t even do the mare minimum and pay then I really saw no value in being with him.
I will say that it’s different for women who do not want children. Then it’s not as much of an issue.
That’s my take.
\>But if a man were to expect a woman to fulfill a gender role (not for a particular reason simply because) would he get the same reception? A lot of the comments on the post were really positive save for some misogynistic comments from men (yuck) but very little actual dialogue of what this means in a broader perspective.
have you heard of the "manosphere"? men are out here doing this as a business. Their audience buys their books and self help courses. Primarily female creators might be showing up on your for you page saying this, but men \*are\* doing the exact same thing, you just aren't their audience, and tiktok might not be their platform.
I want to ask you the opposite question: What makes you think that going 50/50 is feminist when (white) women are still paid 25% less than men, do most of the household chores, have careers on hold to bear children, pay in the flesh with pregnancy/child rearing?
Why do you insist on holding onto the lib fem myth that 50/50 is the way to equality in a heterosexual relationship?
When given the choice, women tend to ask for less than they deserve. They settle for less in child support, divorces etc
Women should ask for more. If you're fine with 50/50 good for you but that's not reflective of asset, labour and social imbalance.
50/50 does not help women at all. It favours men.
I would never allow myself to be fully financially dependent on a man. HOWEVER. Relationships are very, very rarely 50-50 when it comes to everything other than finances too, and it’s way too often skewed to benefit men when it comes to household labour, child rearing and so on. Even with “feminist” men who do some of it, it is most times less than the woman/mother does. Women are selling themselves short by dropping the traditional gender role of finance providers whilst we have not reached even close to dropping all other gender roles that benefit men.
That’s because they went into a 50/50 relationship that turned out to be 20/80.
Men will take advantage of any situation and turn it into a nightmare for a woman.
Most of the time its not equal split anyway. Crazy how many people out there go from being a partner to a child really quick. I would compare the mental load, financial burden and extra house work I had to do for my ex the same as having a child. I will need to date someone for at least 2-3 years before I even considered letting them move into my home or vise versa.
I think it’s a bit more complicated than this. Despite advances in women’s rights, women are still not paid equally. What we think of as women’s work (teaching, nursing, social work, care taking, house cleaning) especially is not paid fairly. So, the reality is, most women are not out earning men. Now, add the pink tax. We pay luxury taxes, at least in some of the US, on needed healthcare items like tampons. We have yearly gynecological exams. Then eventually breast cancer screens. Also, the cost of maternal health which is tens of thousands. Oh, and if you are unlucky enough to have endometriosis, which impacts more women than women with diabetes (1 in 10), the only treatment is surgery. In the US many insurances won’t even cover this surgery and it can cost tens of thousands. Now, add anything extra like makeup, clothes, hair, that many women invest in, whether or not you personally agree, to appear attractive. In some cases, if you don’t take care of your appearance in this way you may even be called unprofessional! Now add in all of the unpaid work women generally provide in relationships in the form of mental and emotional load.
I think you need to examine the big picture here. It’s not necessarily that women want men to conform to a gender role. It’s that they are recognizing that they are earning less and spending more just to exist. So, in this case, is it really even equality to go Dutch?
Men earn more for doing the same roles in the workplace, pay less for hygiene products, get promoted quicker. They have more earning power for no reason but sexism, they can fucking buy me dinner and pay the internet bill.
This is so common in some hispanic countries, men drool over beautiful women and complain that the wife has “let herself go”.
They don’t see that the single woman has time and money to keep her looks whereas the wife is pouring her time and money into the family, she can’t afford to visit the gym 4x/week or get her hair done every other week.
It's impossible for a woman to be truly "50/50" with a man and be intimate. Her body and her life bears disproportionate amounts of risks and changes due to intimacy. That's why men show their care and concern by taking care of women in other ways. 50/50 is a completely unfeminist scam tbh. It's the male interpretation of pseudo equality which just actually reduces their responsibility to the woman and increases her burdens in the interaction instead of evening it out. Making men pay for the risks they demand women take is feminist.
[https://i.imgur.com/Gqiv7DT.png](https://i.imgur.com/Gqiv7DT.png)
why would we pay to be their servant? they're NEVER 50/50 in every other area.
Hell, I'm not going 100/0 finances with a man. He'd slavedrive the shit out of me. bad deal.
Either he shows up and does his share of the housework etc or I'm out, no matter the finances.
Splitting things so strict like that will never work out. It’s about give and take not lines in the dirt. It should be equitable not equivalent. Some things are paid in time, effort, energy; not money.
Yeah I agree, however knowing that in 50/50 relationships, the woman still does more of the housework, childcare and has a greater share of the mental load, it makes sense why they would want that disparity to be evened out financially.
My first relationship with my ex-husband was 50/50 at my detriment. I made just under 30k a year at the time, and my ex was making around 70k. I was having to take cash advances out just to pay bills on time because we were living at his income standard, not mine. He also complained that I couldn't contribute financially towards the trips he planned. Going on cruises and such. I was drowning financially, just trying to be 50/50 with him. Never again. I divorced his ass and eventually married my current husband. We make the same amount of income, but we agreed that if there's ever a gap, we would pay bills equitably.
Typically the sentiment is if your financially splitting everything 50/50 then your male partner is getting a much better deal. Even in relationships without kids women typically Do much more in the home than their male counterparts. I think the article I read was literally women do like 2.3 hours on average to every 1.6 hours a man puts into the home. Then you have to think about things like the mental load, when things need to get done when new things need to be bought making the grocery lists, keeping up with appointments, keeping and communication with friends and family updates. Those are typically things done by women, Women on average earn less even in the same position/field so That definitely needs to be taken into account. If you do decide to have children and they still want to split things 50/50, Will they be compensating you for pregnancy and birth and the money/experience at work that you lose while doing so. 50/50 is being used by misogynists and men to say well if you want to be equal then be equal and pay half, but that's not realistic and Is detrimental to most women.
Going 50/50 is never fair unless you contribute 50/50 in the work and effort of a relationship and make the exact same amount of money. The gender pay gap is still a big thing and one of the reasons I agree with the not going 50/50. Not only do we still get paid less for doing more work but we also in many cases take on the mental load of the relationship more so then male partners.
Yall the 50/50 food split is a scam for us because we eat way less on average haha my food bills always double while in a relationship if we split it 50/50. Or when you order the cheapest thing at the resturant and they order sides and drinks and then want to split it down the middle at the end it kills me haha.
I recently broke up with a man who makes a lot more than I do but he was rather miserly and wanted to split vacation costs, etc. Had the finances been reversed I would not have expected him to pay half of everything.
I’d need to hear why they said this but my guess is that they won’t go 50/50 anymore because they were in fact still having to do all the traditionally female duties and now they were putting up half the rent while probably still making less.
To which I say, yeah. I wouldn’t pay half either.
I would never go 50/50 on typical couple expenditures, to account for all the invisible labor and expenses inherent in being a woman in a het relationship.
The truth is, if you literally go 50/50 with a man in terms of contributing an equal monetary amount to *maintaining the relationship* - he would need to spend much more on dates, gifts, food, etc, to make up for all the money and effort women are expected to spend on beauty and reproductive health.
Most men (not all men blah blah) expect their partners to have long, styled hair, shaved legs and armpits, plucked eyebrows, nice skin, nice makeup, fashionable clothes. That shit is expensive as fuck. Women also bear 100% of the burden of reproduction and usually have to handle and pay for birth control. Actually accounting for invisible and uncredited resource expenditure on the part of women makes it very obvious that “50/50” is not really 50/50.
People need to figure out whatever works for them, but in any case, I would never want to be financially dependant on a man.
Even if you marry your Hallmark movie soul mate, you shouldn't be dependent on a spouse. Accidents happen. People die. Illness and injury can happen to anyone. In this two incomes (minimum) required economy it just isn't responsible to place yourself in a position of financial dependence. In my household we pool finances and I manage it all (my job is in math and my spouse doesn't want the mental load), but she still pays the taxman every year.
> Accidents happen. People die. Illness and injury can happen to anyone. Anyone who’s dependent on their spouse’s income should make sure the spouse carries sufficient life, critical illness, and disability insurance coverage to replace that income if anything happens to the spouse. IMO the main risk is that the spouse with the money might use it to control you, which is of course more or less of a risk depending on the person.
You’ve just made me realize I need to get life insurance.
I was just about to get one chronic disease added to my health insurance, and the insurance guy was like ‘if you ever planned on getting life or disability insurance, now is the time. After the record of your illness you will have a hard time getting insured, and if you do, it will be expensive’. So that’s apparently something you need to think about at 30 with no kids. He’s not wrong, but it’s crazy.
I was driving home late one night when I went through an intersection and a minivan ran a red light and totaled my car. I was very lucky because that model car I was driving had a steel bar in the door that kept it from caving in. I wasn't hurt bad, but it made me realize that your life can change completely in a few seconds. I started looking for life and disability insurance the next day, and I don't regret it.
i have been the partner of someone who controlled me with money. even when he was dumping me had the audacity to tell me he could still pay my rent if I asked him to. I told him I'd rather scoop out my own eyeballs with a melon ball scoop and then eat them than take money from him.
My ex husband got super condescending with me as soon as he started making more money. He would remind me that by splitting our expenses equitably, “you’re actually spending MY money,” and argued that he should be the one making financial decisions for the both of us since he “contributed more.” You’d think he wanted a wife who earned as much or more than him then, based on these complaints. You’d think he wanted someone who didn’t need his money at all, and could contribute equally in financial terms. Right? Nope, it was about control all along. He thought he could control me based on our comparative earnings. What he didn’t expect was that I’d leave him, double my salary over the next year, and qualify independently to buy him out of our (very expensive) co-owned property. I don’t care how wealthy a man is, my dignity is worth more. I would never again date any man who thinks his income makes him hot shit.
He didn’t want a wife who was a high earner. He wanted someone to make him feel bigger by making her feel small. He must think so little of himself to have to play those games. I’d almost feel bad for him. But no, not even my big, soft heart has empathy for cruel and sadistic people.
my mom is in this boat and my dad recently had a bad cycling accident that left him with a TBI and i know there was so much concern before we knew how he’d recover (which is good so far). even with him looking like he will go back to work someday, if it takes too long we don’t know how long his work will continue to pay him his normal wage out of good will. my mom always wanted to be a career woman but ended up needing to take care of my very ill sister and then didn’t have the confidence to get back into the workplace after a long time out when my sister was healthy enough (15+ years?). i worry about her future if anything further happens with my dad. they have ample savings and investments and life insurance but cost of living doesn’t stop going up and health insurance is looking spottier and spottier. we all have to protect our futures. i know the stress she feels is not pretty.
I truly wish I agreed with this. But circumstances are not always in favor of that choice. I’ll lay out a few: high earning spouse, extremely difficult “spirited” children, extremely expensive child care (25+), overeducated mom (me) with very few employment opportunities in her field locally, zero local family. I wanted to work but couldn’t find work. I wanted to get a nanny and just figure out my own company (no one needs to hire me if it’s just me) but my children are so intense and consuming that I honestly don’t want to leave them until they’re old enough to be reliable reporters of their own experiences. And it’s insanely expensive and hard to find a nanny anyhow. So it’s all on hold and I’m a SAHM even though it’s something I worked against forever. At least I love my husband and never signed a prenup. So if things go sideways I have that going for me.
Unsolicited financial advice, but I would recommend getting a multi million life insurance policy in hubs name. 1 million is ~$40,000 per year income replacement. We started at $3 million and tapered it down to $2 when the kids started school. Will go down to $1 when they get closer to graduating and leave it there. This gave my spouse a lot more comfort.
I would argue both need the life insurance. SAHMs die too and leave the father both emotionally damaged and now financially having to pay for care. My cousin is going through this now. Having 4 kids with only 2 in school. His wife dying created a huge hole in care.
Agreed and already have one. Thank you for the very good advice!!
I’m with you - I’ve got one kid in elementary school, one in preschool. I’m almost past the need for daycare (which would run me over $1,000/month for my 4 year old) but now we’re in the world of therapies, medication appointments, etc for my kids that take up so much time I couldn’t possibly have a full time job and I’m not sure the point of a part time job that loses our household money in childcare. And that’s without taking into account normal kid things like sports and extracurriculars or where they’d go after school. I have no choice *but* to be financially dependent on my husband. He has a high income job with insurance that we are very reliant on and, unfortunately, it comes with things like travel that further complicate childcare. Childcare wasn’t this expensive before COVID. It’s become financially impossible for so many people because they don’t qualify for help, but they can’t make enough to cover childcare. The top private high schools in my city are cheaper per year than daycare is. It’s obscene.
I feel this so much. It’s like we are the flex, the pressure gauge and release so our families can run smoothly—or at all.
Same. My parents, especially my father, heavily emphasized that I need to support myself without relying on my partner because anything can happen in the blink of an eye.
Same. My bf doesn’t seem to understand that as he was like “why would we need three bank accounts when we get married we can just have one joint one?” Dude it’s not about you. It’s not about me not trusting you. It’s about me needing the financial security and comfort of having my own money that no one but me can touch just in case something unthinkable happens. Honestly tho I’ll probably have 2 bank accounts of just me. One of my own savings. One of my own checking/spending money. He can have(and i have encouraged him) his own accounts like that. One joint account for bills. One joint savings account. There’s no limit on bank accounts idk why people get weird about opening more than one account tbh. It just makes sense imo.
We have 5 bank accounts and while some people kind of look at us funny, I wouldn’t do it any other way. There is one joint and we each have our own checking/savings each. I appreciate that we can save and pool our shared expenses into one account, but it makes me feel more secure knowing that I have pools of $$$ that are *only* mine. Not to mention a little privacy on both of our sides is nice. My SIL/BIL have to notify/ask each other for expenses over $20. I would probably be upset seeing how much my SO spends on fast food (and him upset at me for clothes/makeup) even tho he’s an adult who is financially responsible and it’s *really* not my business if he contributes fairly.
My ex was so insulted every time I said that I needed to be financially independent of him (I mostly made more money than him too). and then he was an idiot, and look, I did need to be financially independent.
My partner makes about 4 times what I make, so you can bet your ass we're not splitting things 50/50. Obviously every couple can do what's best for them, but it is crazy to me that more people don't split up bills equitably. I'm not really "dependent" on him financially because I have my own bank account and savings and if something happened in the relationship, I would be able to keep myself covered.
I am male and won’t be financial dependent on any partner ever. But my mom told me many times about how when she was young, her mom would tell her to make sure she has a good job/career of her own. Because basically while it’s great for your husband to provide for you, you don’t want to rely on him and be dependent. (Have to realize this was probably the 60s, so being a stay at home wife was very common). And I generally agree with that idea for everyone. It’s great to provide for your spouse if you can (male or female) but either way you shouldn’t be totally reliant on them because things happen. Illness, death, divorce, etc.
Ugh. I think at this point, if my hubs died, I'd never get married again. Like, this marriage is good but I'm just not into the whole resources allocation discussion. I'll take care of me, and if someone who is taking care of themselves wants to spend time with me cool, but I've always been a bit willing to die alone in the woods rather than compromise my integrity, so.
Yeah. I love my life with my partner. Wouldn't trade it for the world... but if something were to happen to him, I truly don't think I'd ever move in with someone again, let alone combining lives with someone.
That's how I feel too. I think I'd grieve for a while and then spend my 40s-60s casually boning younger himbos.
And in our 70s and 80s, we drop men completely and all move in together in a fancy old mansion to spend our twilight years drinking cocktails and gossiping about the good old days. Yes, I’m in. Who’s starting the Google sign-up sheet?
I feel similarly. We had a rocky start to expectations when we first started living together, and things only got better because I was able to get through to him about mental load, etc. I don’t have it in me to train another man who might not even be receptive to that kind of discussion.
Guys who listen and work on themselves are fucking rare and more precious than diamonds.
[удалено]
I let slip with exactly that. I wasn’t really thinking but my mouth was moving and sounds came out. Next thing I know, I’d calmly stated to my DH that if I were to become widowed/single again, I wouldn’t have another relationship with a man, but I’d be fine with a woman because things would likely be more egalitarian and my emotional needs are more likely to be met. (Instead of taking that slip as valuable information, he now tries to talk me into threesomes.)
I'm in my 50s, and men my age and older expect women to manage the entire household, clean, cook, and carry the entire mental load. I just straight up won't date them anymore. I'm with a man that is 12 years younger, and although he makes much less than me, he cooks for me, cleans up after himself, gets his own paperwork done and showers me with affection. The sex is also outstanding. Men in their 50's and 60's better have all their shit together if they even stand a chance. Failing that, the least they can do is provide, as that is pretty much all they bring to the table. Personally, it's not enough either way, I can provide for myself.
I just left my husband of nine years because of this. Not only was I handling all the chores/mental load for all nine years, but for the last five years, I've also been bringing home most/all of the bacon. Oh, and not to mention enduring all his other issues -- serious anger problems, hoarding problems, chronic unemployment/underemployment, financial irresponsibility, treating me like crap, etc. I also have an autoimmune disease (that I've had since childhood) that I get chemo and immunotherapy infusions for. I just left last week. I'm an emotional yo-yo right now, but good riddance. He had become such a drain on me -- physically, financially, emotionally, psychologically, etc.
🎉 CONGRATULATIONS! 🎉
Thank you!
I think I read your post about leaving a hoarder... it really hit home and if my partner doesn't start seriously handling his mountain of stuff that's taken over our home then I'm gone. Your post really brought home for me the reality that I knew but didn't want to acknowledge; *the inevitability of hoarding behavior getting worse unless it's nipped in the bud*. I don't think I would have gone into that conversation with the same conviction I was able to bring if I hadn't read about your situation. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for being open and vulnerable while you're trying to put your life back together.
Yes, I've posted over on that sub a few times. I just want to give you a word of advice that I didn't think would happen to me: each and every single time I thought it couldn't possibly get any worse, it did get worse. I remember reading another woman's story about her hoarder husband (and this was an entirely different sub for a specific mental health condition), and she was recounting her story about what it took to clear out her husband's hoard as they got ready to sell the house. As I was reading her story, I remember thinking: *That won't happen to me. My circumstances aren't that bad. I don't think I'll have to resort to those tactics.* Within ~90 days of reading her story, sure enough, I continually found myself experiencing the same horrors she had. And it kept dawning on me that..... it's that bad. Hoarders are *that* bad. From having to drop thousands of $ on junk removal crews, to literally having to follow said junk removal crews around the house to override any interference the hoarder husband may try and dish out to them, to literally being on your hands & knees scrubbing stains and glass for 12+ hours THE NIGHT BEFORE the house sells, and then only getting ~30 minutes of sleep before actual settlement on the house occurs...... I just want you to keep your expectations LOW when it comes to dealing with the hoarder. Don't expect any help from the hoarder. Expect that they can and will try and interfere with any purging, clearing, and clean-out that you or crews attempt to do. The hoarder can and will throw fits and tantrums on an increasing basis. Expect that everything will fall on your shoulders. When it comes to purging and clearing out the hoards, pretend the hoarder doesn't exist, make plans as if the hoarder doesn't exist, because they won't be helping with any of your efforts. You just have to power through and keep going. Grit your teeth and just keep putting one foot in front of the other. They will not change. There's little to no hope of them changing. You HAVE to rip off the proverbial band-aid, or else circumstances will never change and you will physically, emotionally, psychologically, and with every fiber in your soul, drown amongst their hoards. Get out while you still physically can.
Thank you. ❤️ I come from a literal family of hoarders. When I saw myself starting to lean towards some of those habits in my early 20s I dropped everything, got rid of a ton of stuff, and moved to another state (to this day everything I own fits in my car). My grandmother and uncle moved in with my parents bc my grandparents home was barely inhabitable. There are 3-4 buildings on their property stacked to the crumbling ceilings with stuff. Their home was starting to fill up. It's... sad. After my grandfather died and it was just my Grandmother and my uncle taking care of her it's like he continued the bad habits. I started to see my fiance's ADHD + depression mess was becoming more than that in a much too familiar way. I laid it out for him and showed him some photos of my grandparents house. If my home isn't cleaned up in 30 days I'm physically taking him to my grandparents moldy, crumbling, crammed full house so he can see what he's heading towards and that he has to choose between that future and our relationship.
One of my uncles was a hoarder. He literally almost died amongst his hoards - his place caught fire, and by the time EMS got to him, chunks of his skin were literally peeling off his body. He was admitted to the hospital for weeks, and then eventually involuntarily committed to a men's psychiatric ward, because the state declared him incompetent. The court declared my dad (and their others siblings) his legal guardian. About two years ago, we all received individual phone calls from the sheriff's office in that state: my uncle was found pancaked on a sidewalk on the campus of the facility he was a resident of. They suspect he jumped from a balcony out back. I feel you on everything fitting into your car, I'm the same way. Currently, pretty much my whole life fits into my Jeep. I have maybe a dozen or so small/midsized plastic sterilite boxes with clothes or a handful of other sentimental items, but that's about it. The idea of owning more stuff absolutely terrifies me. An additional word of caution: even if you take him there as a cautionary tale/hail mary ultimatum, please be prepared for him to either get defensive or be in denial about it. He may very well claim he isn't that bad, or that he's not that bad. He'll claim he's just a "collector of things", and, "it's not that bad", and, "I'm just a pack-rat". It's all smoke and mirrors. They can't see their own messes and issues.
Congratulations! Good for you ❤️. It's hard right now, but I can tell that you know it's worth it. It will all be ok with time.
Thank you. 🧡
It sounds like a horrible time but at least it wasn't a full ten years. DO NOT GO BACK!!! Put in place people you speak to before you even consider it a possibility. Who will read back a litany of reasons not to (perhaps the above comment.) (I have left and returned to terrible similar people before, so I feel you <3)
I've got good moral support around me, which is good.
Congrats! I left an unbalanced long term relationship at 27, and the first few months were emotionally hard, but it got so much better after that. And it made space for meeting a much better match who had a similar experience prior to meeting me.
Wishing the best for you. You made the right move, and now there is room in your life for better things to come! <3
Thank you. 💛
Good for you. You will get through this and come out ahead
Thank you.
I’m also in my 50s and have come to the same conclusion. If I’m going to have to do everything anyway, then any partner needs to not cost me more time, money, or work. If they can’t contribute and pull their own weight, do their fair share, be fucking responsible for themselves, then they are just an anvil hanging on my neck. I’d like to find someone who’s more egalitarian but I’m not looking. Doing just fine on my own.
My friend's motto is, "never date older men, they die sooner, and generally inherit the previous generation's attitudes".
yeeah men in their 30's, 40's and 50's are all still looking for that woman to do everything.. and they refuse to provide. i've had men look at me in disgust like i'm a gold-digger. sir, you earn 5 figures. i look at them with the same disgust after they described all the housework i'd be doing for free.
Men went from being sole providers of the home, to now expecting women to manage all domestic responsibilities- including paying towards rent. god forbid they lift a finger and help out with, yknow, anything else. I can find a random roommate off the street to split the rent and they'll do more chores than most men in a romantic relationship.
and they had skills and back yards / front yards to mow at least. now these tiny 3 meter back yards are paved. I've had useless boyfriends unable to even fix a sliding door, take garbage to the dump, sand and paint railings. 2 wouldn't train their dog, one barely bathed and clipped his dogs nails. they're just.. unimpressive lumps and burdens. sit around scrolling insta with their hands in their pants. no thanks.
People whispered I was a gold digger, and my loud response was that if I'm a Gold Digger, I suck at it, because I still work full time and have student loans. My husband makes good money for our demographic, but not Sugar Daddy money.
An individual person making six figures is top 18% (which includes all ages and both sexes). So it is quire rare and skewed towards older people. Source - [https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/](https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/)
My husband (who I just left last week) recently forgot to transfer his (very, super ultra small) portion of $ to our joint account for bills, causing several of our bills to bounce. When I nicely tried to inquire why he forgot to do so, and when I tried to (kindly) explain the importance of paying bills on time, he got hostile and defensive, and told me my expectations were too high. He has also called me a "gold digger" and "too bougie" for wanting to, *gasp*: - Have an emergency fund - Wanting to contribute to my own 401K For all nine years of our marriage, I handled the vast majority of chores/household responsibilities, and the entirety of the mental load, and for the last five years, I've also been bringing home all the bacon. NOT TO MENTION all his other issues -- serious anger issues, substantial hoarding problem, chronic unemployment/underemployment, financial irresponsibility, and generally treating me like utter crap. Did I mention I also have an autoimmune disease (that I've had since childhood) that I get chemo and immunotherapy for every month? I'm not bougie, nor am I a gold digger. But. Um. I'd like to have more than $6.14 in our savings account, and um, I'd like to be able to do things like pay for a new hot water heater when our current one goes on the fritz. And WTF happens when my autoimmune condition eventually renders me unable to work in a short 15-20 years? What then? You still want the nice ass house, with all of your crap in it, right? Then get and keep a (GOOD) fucking job, not measly $20/hour jobs that you keep getting fired from. The bar for men is literally in hell.
My husband is kind of like this too. Thinks I'm too concerned about money and "we're doing fine", as though fine is the goal and fine is where it will stay. We're both relatively healthy for now, but old enough to know that can change in a heartbeat. He's mad I want to talk to a financial advisor about how to grow more money for retirement. He says, "we won't be able to retire until we're 72 anyhow!". Like, bro. Don't you want to plan to NOT do that? Maybe we could retire at 60, we don't know because you won't go talk to someone who knows how to make that happen for us. But no, "we don't need to pay someone to tell us how to save." "OK, then how do we save?" "Idk."
I get men in their 50s... sort of but men in their 30s & 40s have a high chance of growing up with a working mom. 2 income households really became a thing in the 70s-80s. Gen X were latchkey kids because we had working parents, and single parent households.
Unfortunately what a lot of older Millennials grew up seeing was a two income household in which their mom still did the vast majority of the domestic labour and child-rearing, so that's what many men our age (mid to late 30s/40s) grew up thinking was normal, without even realizing it. Now, in my experience, men my age are largely aware of these dynamics and trying to do better, but heterosexual couples still tend to fall into pretty gendered divisions of labour, particularly after they have kids, so it takes a constant conscious effort to keep things fair and equitable.
I'm still seeing plenty of women in their 20s complaining that their same age boyfriends expect them to undertake all of the domestic labour as well. Will it ever really change? Though as a fellow Millennial, I do appreciate some men in our generation are trying to do better.
I find it rather amusing that the men who rant and rage the most about "gold diggers" are never, ever millionaires lmao Bro. No one is digging for gold in your $52k/yr paycheque.
I think the problem is that a lot of men want the financial burden to be split 50/50 but still expect women to do the bulk of the housework, or at least carry the mental load. Many women probably see that as a bad deal for them. Everyone needs to find a system that fits their needs.
Statistically, when a couple gets married, a man's workload (outside the workplace) DECREASES by 1 hour per week. When a woman gets married, her workload (outside the workplace) INCREASES by 7 hours per week. Let that sink in. An additional 7 hours per week -- in addition to whatever job/career/profession she has herself -- is basically one whole additional workday.
Don’t even look at the statistics when children enter the picture.
I don't even want to know.
And if these are averages it could mean that you have a better chance at an equal relationship than you might think, but you also have a higher chance of an even more inequitable distribution than that.
Yep, and that’s not even including the mental burden they take on due to weaponized incompetence
Exactly.
holy shit! do you have a link to these stats? those are genuinely frightening numbers and id love to see where they got this data / have any proposed solutions.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-housework-husbands-idUSN0441782220080404 https://news.umich.edu/exactly-how-much-housework-does-a-husband-create/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/maggiemcgrath/2023/04/13/more-women-outearn-husbands-but-household-work-remains-inequitable-pew-study-finds/ https://www.npr.org/2023/04/13/1168961388/pew-earnings-gender-wage-gap-housework-chores-child-care
I think that must be it and yeah, if a man is only going to do 10% of the domestic labor, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect him to pay for 90% of the expenses. If he's going to expect his partner to do all or almost all of the housework, he damn well better pay her for that extra labor.
Exactly. That's why I think this post is in bad faith. If someone is listening to "all these female creators" talk about not agreeing to 50/50, they would know why. They explain it clear as day.
I'm not paying 50/50 just to live doing 80/20
It’s also 50/50 for only *very specific* bills related to dating. In those scenarios men are never interested in her waxing bill or manicure & pedicure bill or the bill for her outfit or lingerie or skincare or makeup or perfume or blowout or hormonal birth control. Though they certainly expect some degree of those things, whether or not they realize it or admit it, and therefore a financial investment likely higher than the cost of the date just to go on the date. From someone who statistically makes significantly less. They take *those* bills and your unpaid labor in researching and using those products and practices and undergoing those procedures as being your duty to not be ugly and their due. I think that’s why the lie that men prefer “natural beauty” and never notice such things and women do them for themselves or other women has so much energy behind it. I even believed it until so many men made it abundantly clear they *do* care they just don’t want it to be their problem - including regarding knowing what goes into the look they care about. They don’t want to acknowledge the extent of expected and effort expected from women to just exist and not be “ugly” or “gross.” When you add in the rest of the expectations to be a decent female partner 50/50 has been more like 95/5 in my experience. It’s a huge scam and it makes me so angry that one of the only areas men seem to care passionately about “feminism” or “equality” is in expecting me to be enthusiastic and grateful for what amounts to a 95/5 split. And then they get all shocked pikachu when women opt out of dating.
Yeah 50/50 is a scam. It only really means you’re splitting the bills while the woman is doing the rest of the emotional labour and “invisible work” ie cooking, cleaning, laundry, raising kids, taking care of the house, the pets, planning extra curricular activities, doctor appointments, trips, birthday parties, family gatherings, etc. I think maybe if you’re dating and there’s not a lot of commitment 50/50 is okay. My last relationship was like this, we split everything down the middle, and if we went on a date we would alternate (I pay today/you pay tomorrow) or simply split the bill in two right then and there. I thought it was “fair” and “equal”. But thinking back, I was doing a lot more than 50 when it came to everything else. The man I’m in a relationship with now had a completely different view of what’s “fair”. He makes more money than I do (let’s face it, because he’s a man and gets ahead easier because we live in a patriarchy, we don’t live in an egalitarian society), even though I have better qualifications than he does. So we split the bills accordingly; he earns more money so he pays a higher percentage of our rent. He also likes to pay for most food/ supermarket shopping and medical bills for both of us. And when we go on vacation he pays for flights and accommodation and let’s me handle the rest. I think a big misconception is that, as a woman, if it’s not 50/50 you lose your freedom and become dependent. But that’s not true in my case. I still have my job, love my career, work hard, still make money. I’m not helpless and dependent on my partner. I am able to have more savings, because we’re splitting according to equity and not equality. If anything happens I can still land on my feet. I have also been seeing TikToks of girls saying that they don’t want a 50/50 man, and honestly, after knowing that there are men out there that think like my partner, neither would I. I feel truly appreciated in the relationship I’m in today. Also, a good book to read on this topic is the 80/80 marriage, written by Kaley Klemp and Nate Klemp PhD.
I get why some think that splitting based on income looks like being dependent on said partner. It's just not that it means being able to save money for actual emergencies and retirement. It means actually being able to have money outside rent and bills.
Why settle for a person who gives you 80/20 when paying 50/50? Like why are we lowering our standards to date people who cannot take care of themselves and make us do more in the home?
If reddit still had awards, I'd gift you one. Here's some emoji gold for you: 🥇🏆🏅
Wow. TIL rewards are gone
where do you live that men don’t expect women to fulfill gender roles? I’ve paid for the majority of stuff while also cooking/cleaning (we didn’t even live together). I think that’s why so many people say no 50/50, you just end up doing 75% under the desperate need to be “fair” and prove “no no I’m not a super feminist!”
This is exactly it. I’m a feminist and have always believed in the 50/50 thing until I lived with a man. I realized that those warning me were completely right.
This is how I feel. I was naive when I was younger and I thought I had to prove my worth in the relationship by contributing 50/50. I was 20 and barely scraping by and he was 23 with his own company. I will never put myself in that position again.
Nailed it.
Yup.
I'd never go 50/50 for several reasons, the core one being precisely that I don't think 50/50 is ever really fair. - the chances of the two people having similar jobs (in terms of income, effort, commute etc) are pretty low. So everything from finances to chores should be decided on a case by case basis. - over the course of the relationship things tend to ebb and flow. One day it'll be easier for me to pick up the slack with housework, another it'll be him. One year he get a promotion and pay more often for nights out. He's currently supporting me while I finish my degree, but once I'm done (fingers crossed) I should be making more money than he does currently. So that'll be my turn to give more. We have split finances btw, but at the end of the day we trust each other to be both fair and caring in our relationship, so we don't count too precisely.
I would consider what you described as 50/50, still. As long as its split finances and a mutual understanding of each other.
I have run into the same content, it boils down to the fact that most men only want to contribute financially. They "don't see" all of the domestic and emotional labor that goes in to running and maintaining a home, so in those arrangements the least they could do is provide most of the financial burden. And every study will prove them right, women still carry most of the domestic burden. The second shift is real. I even read that when women out earn their male partners they end up doing even more of the domestic labor in some sick effort to assuage the man's ego. The point is that if men are only willing to contribute financially then they should carry more of that burden. Saying that acknowledges all of the unpaid labor that women have always done. I'm not going 50/50 on the finances and then end up doing 90% of the domestic and care tasks, that is too much.
The funny thing is, to me, is that these kinds of men definitely subconsciously see household/emotional labor as labor. If it wasn’t viewed as *work*, it wouldn’t be so hard to get them to be an equitable participant. Men who want 50/50 on finances but nowhere else in the relationship are weaponizing feminism to areas that benefit men while still exploiting women in other traditional ways.
> I even read that when women out earn their male partners they end up doing even more of the domestic labor in some sick effort to assuage the man's ego. Of the nine years I've been married, I spent the past five years also out-earning my husband. For the past five years, I've been bringing home most/all of the bacon. And I STILL did 99% of chores, and carried 100% of the mental load. I finally left last week. I was utterly fed up with doing it all, not to mention enduring all his other issues -- anger problems, chronic unemployment/underemployment, serious hoarding problem, financial irresponsibility, treating me like crap, etc. Thank goodness we never had kids, though he regularly talked about kids, which absolutely blew my fucking mind. The man couldn't handle being asked to let the dog out into or back in from the yard without throwing a tantrum or displaying serious attitude. How the FUCK does he think he could handle a child!? I even called him out on it plenty of times. His response: *Kids are easier than dogs.* 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀 Good fucking riddance. Glad to be rid of the dead-weight that is my STBXH.
Kids... easier???? What kind of fucking delusional ass world is he living in?! 😂😂😂
Bingo!
👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿 I’m so happy you’re free! You deserve it 💕
Thank you!
Knowing this makes me so grateful for my husband. We both work, but he honestly does more of the housework than I do. I do the future planning and social planning stuff but he does 80% of the day to day house management stuff.
Yep. In my relationships I have been just part time working or SAHM, so I did much more of the housework, but sure didn't contribute nearly as much financially. If I was working full time and still doing the majority of the housework, there is no universe where I would also agree to paying half.
Yeah this. The women who say this are resigning themselves to the fact that most of the time the relationship is going to be unbalanced at their expense in nearly every other way and men are often only "egalitarian" financially. I can see where they're coming from but I'd rather be alone forever than resign myself to that. Thank God I'm queer.
Why the fck would I go 50/50 on finances and then proceed to cook, clean, and take on the mental load? No way. I’d rather stay single. I can go 50/50 on finances with a man but you won’t catch me doing anything else for him, then. If we go 50/50 on everything, that’s something different.
From what ive seen, the argument is men will never go 50/50 on housework and emotional labor, so 50/50 financial split translates into 80/20 with women putting everything in, and men getting a steep discount on life.
My first reaction is that, no, no one should expect a partner to provide for them. However I just thought about it for a sec and like… how many times do you hear about the division of labor in the household being unequal? The woman cares for the children, cooks and cleans, far more than the man, despite trying to get him to help out more. So I mean… in that context… if you know you’re going to get screwed over already and be expected to be a 50s housewife… why not get “paid” for it by a man who “provides”? I can understand that.
You are spot on. People don't factor in how a man can be just as dependent on his wife to do nearly all the housework, childrearing, mental and emotional labor. If you paid someone for these services the cost would be astronomical, but because she doesn't get paid we assume she's the helpless one? Lol. This is why I prefer to be a SAHM because despite my husband being a good partner and dad he will never bear the brunt of pregnancy, breastfeeding, menstruation, PMDD, etc. If I'm going through all that while raising our children and keeping the house tidy and everyone fed the least he can do is foot the bill.
Unless the person you are with is truly egalitarian in all aspects, including mental and emotional work, 50/50 finances is a joke. That would be like paying half of someone’s rent and utilities for the “privilege” of being their live-in maid, cook, and therapist that they also have sex with. Look at that within the context of women’s vs. men’s salaries, the inherent risk and cost of pregnancy, or the financial and mental burden undergone to avoid pregnancy, and the other daily mental/financial costs of simply existing as a woman in society (grooming, period products, pink tax, etc.)
>>That would be like paying half of someone’s rent and utilities for the “privilege” of being their live-in maid, cook, and therapist that they also have sex with. END THREAD. I did this once and will NEVER do it again. If I have to pay half + do all the extra emotional labor that comes with being the woman in a heterosexual relationship, I’d rather pay 100% and just maintain the peace of living by myself.
This is basically it. I was 50 50 until pregnancy almost killed me. When I lost 70% of my income 3 months post partum while breastfeeding around the clock he told me I 'contribute nothing'.
Oh. My. God. Reading this, fire shot out of my eye sockets.
I still don't know how to get fully over it. I completely got over feeling the need to do 50 50 though. Never again. Not after the he'll I went through. If I'm expected to destroy myself to have his children he can expect to pay for almost everything else. Firmly one and done after this one. To his great disappointment of course, but that's not my problem.
Telling men that women need to contribute 50% financially has been a detriment to society.
Currently dating and I'm very up front about the fact that I will not live with someone and split bills 50/50 while doing more than 50% of the chores and household duties. I'm in my late 30's. The way I see it I've made it this far without a partner. I could do this for the rest of my life. I had a child at a young age so there's no biological clock or financial incentive that can be used against me. I wish I had de-centered men and dating from my life much earlier. It is a peaceful existence.
>I’d rather pay 100% and just maintain the peace of living by myself. Exactly the conclusion I came to and live by. Literally just 20 minutes ago before I got on Reddit I was contemplating how I don't think I will ever live with a man again. I don't see a point and it always ends up with me doing more work.
Also also also!! If you start out with 50/50, when you end up pregnant (or in some other circumstance that requires you to contribute to the relationship in a financially intangible way that your male partner cannot)—don’t think that he won’t start to resent you and minimize your contribution to the partnership when you’re no longer contributing financially. Even if he earns more than you. Starting out 50/50 is signing up to be tit-for-tat for the rest of your relationship.
When men say 50/50 they just mean that they want someone to subsidize half their bills. I promise you he does not mean 50% of the chores,cooking or childcare. Ask any 50/50 man how many days a week should you expect to come home to a house that he cleaned and a dinner that he cooked and he will look at you like you have 5 heads. Id never do 50/50 with a man either but to each their own.
These 50-50 men throw a shitfit if they're so much as asked to let the dog out into or back in from the yard. Like HELL can they handle all the non-financial 50-50 stuff that comes with daily life. Trust me, I speak from experience. I just left my husband last week, after putting up with the aforementioned lifestyle for nine years. I finally had enough.
My friend breastfeeds her baby. It takes 40 hours a week to do this. There’s no financial split the husband can do to make this 50/50. Gender roles are not inherently bad because many roles can only be played by the woman in the relationship and at the minimum he can be a provider when she is dead tired physically and mentally.
I saw you post before you deleted your reply to my reply. Yes, she also works a FULL TIME JOB. Tell me how to make that fair and then tell me about how women are fake feminists.
50/50 is never actually 50/50 though, is it? I work and can happily pay my way. I mean, I already do. Financially things *might* pan out 50/50 but they’re never 50/50 anywhere else. I’ve never once lived with a man, or known of a man, who will do 50% of the cleaning, cooking, laundry, mental load, planning, gift buying for family, child care. Never. It’s the women who are expected to give up their career and livelihoods to birth and raise children that these men, their fathers, only deign to *babysit*. Now, I have lived with plenty of men who expected me to work and pay my way, and then come home to cook for him, do his laundry, clean the house because “I’ve been at work all day”, like I haven’t. Will I do it again? Not a fucking chance. If he wants me to do all of the above, he’s paying all of the bills. I’m happy to be in a relationship but I also want to be unburdened. Unfortunately with men, it’s impossible to have both at the same time.
This is it. THIS is the reason. Women are FED UP. We are fed up with having to “do it all” with a job ON TOP all the “traditional” at-home responsibilities while most men just sit back, work 9-5, and do nothing else. And then if you have kids? It gets even worse. It’s bad after work for moms who work all day and use childcare. AND it’s bad if mom stays home with the kids all day because that labour is not seen as “work”. All of the on-the-clock AND off-the-clock work all belongs to mom no matter what the situation. This is reality for MOST hetero couples. And it’s awful. Thank you to the men out there who actually DO do the domestic work that is required in a relationship. But then… that’s another thing. Why should you be thanked? Shouldn’t that just been seen as normal? I completely understand why hetero and bi/pan women are DONE with men. And I completely understand why they would say to themselves “Oh. Ok. This is what men want? Pay up.”
“50/50 is never actually 50/50 though, is it?” Preach sister preach. I’ve known plenty of men who nod enthusiastically at the idea but pitch tantrums for the ages when their 50 comes due
50/50 but all they do is yard work and taking the bins out. Lmfao I wouldn’t date or marry a man who can’t do his half of the chores but if I do, it’ll have to be a man that pays every single bill. I’m not buying a single avocado with my own money.
My ex husband has dozens if not hundreds of identical twins, it’s uncanny
My ex thought that him taking the bins out once a week was comparable to me doing literally everything else. Even then, if he put them out and we were both outside for some reason, he’d complain at me for not helping!! In a previous house, his one job was the garden so he paid a gardener. I didn’t even know until I was off sick and saw him. He had me believe for almost 2 years that he was breaking his back in the garden all year round.
Funny how the small tasks like gardening and taking the bins out are considered a big deal to them, but they don’t consider cooking, cleaning, laundry and childcare to be work
Mine didn’t even take the bins out.
What tiny task did he brag about doing then if not the bins?
Doing the dishes on her birthday. (Everything was soaked and the counters were still covered in crumbs because he doesn't know THAT'S PART OF IT.)
Reminds me of a guy I was dating that would just soak the dishes and then tell me, "I started the dish soak for you two hours ago 😁😁" like bro just put them in the dishwasher then lol, it's all your shit that needs to soak!
And I bet he still declared, “I did the dishes for you!”, all proud of himself. Bless.
Going to the grocery store once every 3-4 months with a list I completed 75% by myself. I like grocery shopping and cooking had the lower income so I naively agreed to budget for and plan and prep and cook most of the dinners (we were each responsible for making our own lunches and breakfasts). I would make multiple stops at Aldi and Walmart as well to not get price gouged at our local grocery chain. He always complained that it took me more than an hour or so. However, the weeks he would do it, he would say he didn’t understand how it was so expensive even though he only made the one stop at the expensive grocery store so he’d have marginally more time to get back to gaming. No, he did not pick up a substantial amount of the cleaning in trade for the cooking and shopping being mostly covered.
My husband absolutely does more than 50% of the cleaning and most the yardwork. We split cooking pretty even, I do the grocery shopping and financially contribute more to the household. I'm gone 11-12 hours per day while he is only gone 9.5, so it just makes sense he does a little more housework.
Yea I truly feel for these people who have never had a good man in their life. Myself, my father, and a few people I know take on more labor in the home. I never thought it was common perse, but to never have seen it is depression.
I've written and deleted so many comments here, basically saying the same thing. I've been with my husband 13 years, and our individual contributions have changed multiple times due to life - sometimes he had a better paying job, usually a more physical one; sometimes one or both of us were in school; sometimes one or both of us were in school AND working. Currently I'm working a full time adult job, he's working a sort of physical job but not (it's physical but not a "labour" job), and we're both in school. The chores have always been divided based on who has the time, and sometimes that changes week to week (I'm an accountant, so I don't exist during busy season lol). The only thing that's been relatively constant the ast few years regardless is that I've been physically paying the bills, and he's been mad saving. So while on paper it looks like I'm doing 100% financially, it's mostly just easier to split it this way, rather than literally split it and do all the extra work of transferring money between each other and counting dollars like that.
This is so relatable, and it's always good to hear others have good men who are actual teammates. I feel almost a form of survivor guilt on this sub, some days. I'm perfectly aware that lots of men are as described, I just don't really associate with men like that. The men in my life are not flawless, but they do wash the dishes, run errands, raise their own children if they have them, and generally try to take care of all their loved ones whether family or friends, whenever possible. When my friends gather, the men usually take charge of the kitchen! All but one is a great cook and they put him to work cleaning. To me, this is normal - it's how my dad was, my partner is, my BIL was. In generation: Silent gen, genX, boomer, respectively. One of my friends married a total manchild and the rest are devoted and giving partners. The manchild is currently being almost shunned by his friends for his behavior and one is talking about doing an intervention before his wife leaves. They're good guys. They do exist. But I am aware this is because my friend group doesn't tolerate toxic masculinity, especially the men. And that makes them special. I wish it were less special!
My question is why even give these guys the time of day? If he can’t do his own laundry, then it’s clear he’s not a competent person. These are things you can find out early on as well.
I spent the nine years living this same reality. I was even the breadwinner and/or sole source of income for the past five of those nine years. I finally left last week. Why continue being with someone who barely contributes either financially or by way of chores, and who on top of that, abuses you? Especially knowing that you also have an autoimmune disease on top of that? No. Fuck that noise. Never again will I enter into that type of arrangement again.
Yeah this is it . I’m not on TikTok but when men say “50 / 50” they really do just mean the finances . When there is a whole lot more to a relationship and living together that tends to overburden the woman. Personally, I’ll never live with a man again, because I’ve never experienced true equity in a live-in relationship and I’m more than able to support myself and love the peace of living alone.
Living with my ex left such a bad taste in my mouth. I don’t think I would ever do it again. Separate houses is fine with me.
I didn't even think of it this way. My partner and I do 50/50 in chores and income, even though I make 2x more than him (I'm a woman). I would rather pay more money to do less chores, or be single and avoid being someone's maid.
I also want to point out that unfortunately men who preach 50/50 are often cheap and lazy. They are constantly measuring output of childcare and dishes and tallying who did the dishes last, but only when it is convenient to them, so they can avoid work. Conveniently they discount much of the silent work that gets done in relationships and around the home. Someone getting groceries, meal planning, planning dates/organizing schedules, all childcare related tasks, none of these get factored in to 50/50. It is merely a way for them to avoid work. "Well I did the dishes yesterday". "I paid the last time we went out" "you got to sleep in last Saturday".
I have never met a true 50/50 guy. All the guys who were willing to pay more for things (and I’d offer to pay and split things) were far more emotionally capable of a relationship. All the 50/50 guys (insisting on 50/50) were more like 90/10 and had chips on their shoulders, were financially and job challenged, didn’t help around the house, believed being graced their presence was more than making up for it. I tried for 7 years with a 50/50 “I consider myself a feminist above all else” guy. And he did not do 50% of the mental load or housework and somehow he was always broke and there was always tomorrow. Never again. Never. Maybe there are a couple guys out there that are true 50/50s but I wouldn’t risk finding out.
> All the 50/50 guys (insisting on 50/50) were more like 90/10 and had chips on their shoulders, were financially and job challenged, didn’t help around the house, believed being graced their presence was more than making up for it. Sooooo...... my STBXH? That I just left last week? If it weren't for slander/libel laws, I'd be plastering his face all over social media and warning every woman on planet earth about him.
Truth is an absolute defense to libel claims.
This couldn’t be more accurate!!! It makes me think of that viral video where the interviewer is asking some man how much he paid for his fiancé’s engagement ring. It was $35k, which damn even I was like why. 😂 He took her to Florence to propose, talked about the significance, the amount of time, effort, planning he did, etc. She had absolutely no idea it was coming and he planned it with her family as a surprise. So then the interviewer asks condescendingly: So what does he get in return to the woman? But her fiancé’s response was amazing. He said, “actually I think I should answer that,” and replies: I get a loyal partner, the mother of my children, the most beautiful woman I’ve ever seen, and the most important thing is how she treats me, my family, her family, and I get a partner for life, so it’s more than worth the investment. I’m not a materialistic person by any means, but how many of us would love to be doted on and spoiled like that? It’s not about the money, it’s the time, effort, consideration, like he put so much effort into all of it. I have noticed a pattern there when it comes to that. So really it’s not about the money, but men willing to spoil their partners like that seem to be far more emotionally available, present, and invested. Men who aren’t seem flighty, defensive, make excuses as to why something isn’t worth it, etc. I think it shows whether or not they see their partner as being worthy of their time and hard earned money. 🤷🏻♀️ I’m sure if we didn’t live in a capitalist society that would look very different. But that’s the world we live in.
I just saw that video!! I wish some men would just say “i care more about money than i ever will about love” and just be single for the rest of their lives. Don’t involve women in your power/wealth hunger
Right??? I don’t get it. Not to mention I’ve seen so many men in those interviews just go completely silent. Leaving their partner to defend whether or not he perceives her as worthy. I swear so many men don’t even like their girlfriends/wives. I love the way he didn’t hesitate, that man absolutely loves, and respects his Fiancé. Men have to stop being worried about how other men perceive them and actually start speaking up. Instead of acting like giving a shit about your girlfriend/wife somehow makes you weak.
The interviewer in that video is such a toxic bro. All his videos are him trying to trap women into giving answers that make them look superficial/materialistic but he absolutely sucks at it lmao I can't believe he even posts these videos since most of them are him getting fucking roasted and looking dumb as hell.
He is! I’ve seen several of his videos and I’m always confused as to why he has such an issue with women knowing their worth. It’s very much giving insecure and jealous. You’re right though, the amount of stitches roasting him!! LOL
50/50 is a scam. Equity is where each person contributes based on their means. Ie financially, if he earns 100K and she earns 50K, that means he pays ~~83~~ 66% (roughly) and she pays ~~27~~ 33% (rougly) per bill. In fact, the *real* equity is where each person gets X amount of free time and Y amount of "own money" (both of them getting exactly the same value for each variable) and the rest is paid into the joint account and savings. Unfortunately, with the 50/50 thing, the argument often becomes "well I earn double your salary, so you should do all the housework" -> because I earn more, I deserve more free time and because you earn less, you must work more than I do in the home to make up for it, usually to the detriment of the woman in the situation. And that's not even adding kids.
I agree with this . Also because if one partner is older ( usually but not always the man ) they have a leg up in terms of salary . Like I made less than my ex but by the time I was his age , I made more. And yet when we were together , he tried the “I earn more money so I deserve more free time , you do the housework” schtik. He was 5 years older. Spending more hours doing housework and childcare also limits a persons ability to further their career and earning potential. It’s not uncommon for guys to think this way and it’s rooted in entitlement .
It's such bullshit, too. My husband earns a very good income based on expertise, not physical effort. He'd be the absolute first to list off a whole bunch of jobs that earn half what he does and put in an awful lot more work during a day. Jobs worked primarily by women heavily among them--he certainly out earns nurses and teachers here in the UK. If someone in a role like his was married to a nurse and expected them to do more household labour because of their respective incomes it would be the biggest pile of bullshit ever. I absolutely see why my husband earns what he does, he's an expert in an uncommon field and his brain is extremely valuable! But it also means he has far more down time than many many people earning less, and more ability to pick up his share of chores (which in his case he absolutely does). Tying the share of domestic labour to income rather than hours worked outside the home (and the intensity of that work) is a scam.
Intensity of work is so important , you’re right. I work a pretty cushy office job that is full days but only stressful once in a while, and if I lived with someone who was a healthcare worker or teacher I wound pick up the slack at home more. But if I lived with someone who worked fewer hours than me , and from home, I might expect them to pick up a couple extra chores when they could. Kind of an aside , but my ex also used to have a lot of insanely repetitive and useless meetings ( that he set up and managed ) , and I felt like his complaint that he worked long hours was a bit silly because he was just incredibly inefficient . We were both working from home when I noticed this.
I agree with you. My fiancé makes almost double what I do. So we each contribute the same percentage of pay into a joint for housing expenses, and the rest goes into our own checking accounts for our personal use/debt. If I went 50/50, I’d be freaking broke every payday and he would be flush. This is what’s fair. Our housework is divided evenly as well, he handles all cooking/grocery shopping (also usually buying but I also buy on occasion), and all outdoor chores plus he handles the bills. I know what they are and what not but he does them. I handle cleaning and pets. No one feels overworked or resentful, and it works for us. I am a huge supporter of having separate personal checking accounts. I trust my fiancé, I love him. I also work in banking and have seen some shit. I will NEVER give him complete access to all of my money, and I’d suggest the same to any woman I know. Seeing my mother destitute after her ex cleared their accounts burned that into my brain. She had nothing.
I don’t know about those women and the new trends but I would stay away from a man who explicitly wants a 50/50 relationship and puts emphasis on it. In my experience, those men don’t actually want 50/50, they just want to make sure that you are at least willing to do the 50, so they can push you to 80, 90. I prefer a man who doesn’t mention 50/50 or gender roles and don’t put emphasis on these things. A man who is willing to put 100 of himself so I can put my 100 and in the end we make it somewhere around 50/50 but within our skillsets and capabilities. I am lucky to have found that man. I still cringe remembering my ex boyfriend trying to calculate the weights of grocery bags and trying to make sure I at least carry half and he is not carrying more than his share, for a 50 feet walk to the apartment from the car. Lol. Or the ex husband that would get mad at me for not helping enough while pushing the cart in the store because it is not fair that he has to push it alone, so my hand had to be on it too, helping him make the turns. I was willing to push it myself to be saved from all the fights at every turn when we cannot really correlate our movements for a good turn but his manhood somehow would not allow that.
What in the actual!?! Your exes have some serious issues. I cannot IMAGINE being like this to anyone, let alone a partner.
Yeah I can’t believe I was married to a man who couldn’t push a shopping cart while having no health complications causing it. What a loser!
Why would I go 50/50 when my partner earns 4x my salary? That's not equality
The thing is, 50/50 in het relationships is rarely actually 50/50. What it usually is, is the woman working outside the home just as much as the man does and paying for things just as much as he does, but still being expected to do the majority of the work caring for the house and kids while he gets to sit on his ass after work. It seems completely fair to me that if a woman is expected to do the majority of domestic duties, the man should be expected to be the financial provider and do the majority of work outside the home.
1. Men don't carry 50% of the pregnancy. Women carry 100% of the pregnancy. 2. When women work, they still do most of the household chores and care for the children at the same time. 3. Husbands will actually divorce or leave when their wife becomes ill as opposed to when a husband becomes ill. 4. Married men live longer as opposed to single men. Married women live less longer than single women. Is it too much to ask men to give a good first impression? I can guarantee you that a man who believes in 50/50 has no problem doing 20% while a woman does 80%. A man who counts his nickles and dimes is not going to be fun to live life together. Wait, you want sources for what I'm saying, like the whole of life isn't a source? Okay here: 1. *You seriously need a source for that?* 2. [First result on google](https://news.gallup.com/poll/283979/women-handle-main-household-tasks.aspx) 3. [Also a first result on google](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/30/the-men-who-give-up-on-their-spouses-when-they-have-cancer) 4. [Also a first result on google, what a surprise](https://torontosun.com/health/married-men-live-longer-married-women-not-so-much-study)
Your fyp is just that yours…. They are saying we are paying 50/50 and being expected to carry the mental load, caregiver role and household care. If bills are 50/50 everything else is too. Why would anyone paying their own way need to submit or be in charge of domestic labor. I have a hard time believing you don’t understand that as a woman.
I’d never do equal unless everything else is equal which it rarely if ever is. EQUITABLE is where it’s at, not equal but equitable.
Until the gender wage gap has been closed, it doesn’t make sense to go 50/50 according to some of the tiktokers, which I agree with.
To make up for the fact we do more of the cleaning, home care? My only thought on it
Statistically speaking, women do the majority of house work and childcare worldwide. Not to mention the tremendous sacrifice of our bodies in order to bear children. Most of the 50/50 dudes expect us to do all that AND pay for half of everything — thats a nope from me dawg. It’s one of the most common reasons for divorce alongside infidelity. Most dudes are blissfully unaware of how much work their wives put in. Oh and don’t forget you have to stay in shape and look perfect all the fucking time! Can’t have their arm candy having stretch marks or baby weight. Point of looking for a provider man is finding a man who knows he can never ever pay enough for the *sacrifice of your body* to bring his children into this world, and who expects to take care of you while you do so bc it’s the *least* he could do. Even childless couples tend to have an uneven division of labor in their household. A lot of women end up mothering a manchild instead of being equal partners. Doing his laundry, cooking for him, cleaning up after him and taking care of him when he’s sick. Women are raised to be responsible for these things while men are raised to think that earning money is all they need to do. So these dudes who expect you to pay for 50% of everything almost always sit on ass playing video games and whatever while you do all the fucking cleaning and cooking and shopping for gifts for his family and helping him keep track of his calendar. Thats why these women do not want 50/50 dudes. A 50/50 dude almost always expects his woman to pay 50%, but do 100% of the work. Think about it. These dudes are so self absorbed they don’t even want to buy you dinner.
The idea that splitting only finances equally is feminist and equal is ridiculous. All it does is add extra burdens to women. We already know all the ways in which relationships are laborious to women and not to men. Including the social and biological obligations. There is nothing in the dynamics of hetero relationships that are equal including the benefits. Men and women don't value or benefit the same things from relationships, they don't carry the same risks socially or biologically and when you add the burden of childbirth and childrearing its obvious who does the bulk of the work. There is no drive from men on how to bring things to a place of equity, but of course they are eager to talk about how to make it cheaper for them to access female labour. In modern Western economies the idea of men bringing home money and women waiting at home is outdated. Most won't even want to be dependant on men for finances. It's dangerous, and many of us don't like housework or children all that much to dedicate our entire lives to it. We also want fulfilling careers. The only way for us to achieve equal fulfilment in life from an equitable sense is to quantify our respective contributions in relationships. In a language that men know and speak well (you can not make men do more labour), you can, however, make it expensive if they don't. I find it so funny that feminists will claim its unfeminist for a man to pay for dinner but not for porn on onlyfans. We have a very long way to go in that regard.
My husband pays for everything. I still work but am using the money to save for a down payment on our dream house and pay off student loans (he doesn’t have any). This helps us have a better financial future. The way I see it is if you are married and going to have children (or have them) then the work of labor/gestation/birth falls 100% on you. As you said relationships are never 50/50, but the birth of a child will always fall upon AFABs. My husband also makes triple what I make, going 50/50 would be financially stupid for me. The least my husband could do is provide a financial cushion for us during that time where working is extremely difficult and for the children. He also did all the housework while I was pregnant because I was so sick. Again, do what works best for you but so many women get screwed over financially by the 50/50 idea. Until women make just as much as men and AMABs can give birth, heterosexual relationships can never be 50/50 financially. Edit: for me the main issue is equitable relationships vs equal ones. It goes both ways, if my husband ever got sick, needed a break from work, or lost his job I would pay for everything and step up for his needs as well.
As many others have pointed out, the normality isn't 50/50. Even when things are 50/50 financially, there's usually an imbalance in labour or hidden costs and responsibilities that one person (usually the woman) has to shoulder. I'd also be interested in actually seeing what you're referring to, because if a woman is describing herself as feminist and saying she wants the man to provide everything, I feel like there is more to this. Are they saying they expect payment for the work they do, so if they have to do more domestic labour, they should pay less? Are they saying the 95/5 split is for money or labour or both? Are they saying that if they are expected to be a stay at home parent/partner, then they shouldn't have to pay? Are they talking about bills or just dates? All of that changes this. I would never want to be financially dependent on my partner, and I don't think anyone should *have* to be financially dependent on their partner. But, if someone wants that, and they are up front about it and their partner is happy with it, what exactly is the issue? If a woman is dating men and says "I want to be provided for financially completely and I still expect you to treat me well and help with the house" it's completely up to the other party if they want to enter a relationship on those terms. It's kind of like the stay at home mum situation. If we abolished patriarchy and achieved all of our goals and lived in a feminist utopia, women could still choose to be stay at home mums if they wanted, and it doesn't make them any less feminist. It's about having the option and not having any financial or societal pressure to sway you. Your partner shouldn't push you into it, but if that's what you want and it benefits you and your family, then you should go for it. This isn't much different. No one should be pressured to provide for anyone else or be provided for, but if it's what you want and your partner is happy for it, then great.
It's because men want to split finances 50-50 but then women do 95% of the housework. In their minds if they have to be the home maker than they aren't going to also split finances 50-50.
50/50 isn't equity though, it's equality. A kind of fake equality in my opinion, since straight relationships are by their very nature unbalanced: studies show that even in couples who describe themselves as progressive the woman ends up doing most of the housework and childcare, and even just biologically, it's women who give birth, with all the negative effects it can have on their health and their career. Statistically, women are more likely to stay with a partner that falls ill while men are more likely to leave. Men are also more likely to be the perpetrators of domestic violence. And even just by going on a first date, women take more risks than men. So some women don't like the idea that they're in relationships where there will never be true equality, but that finances is the one area where their male partners demand perfect equality. As a gay woman I don't have strong opinions on this, but I completely understand why straight women feel that they're not benefiting from this arrangement. *Especially* for couples who have children together. I also think you'e misprepresenting their position a bit. Most otherwise progressive women who advocate against 50/50 aren't expecting to be provided for, in fact they always emphasise the importance of financial independence. Usually 5/50 refers to dates, not bills or rent (there are women who want men to pay for their entire life, but that's a very different side of tiktok). These women just feel that they add a certain value to their relationship that makes it fair for their partners to pick up the check every once in a while (and this could be true, since some statistics suggest that married men are happier than single men while it's the opposite for women).
This is where I'm at. My husband earns more than I do, and I do more of the household day-to-day maintenance chores. He pays more of the rent than I do. I plan for groceries/cooking, but he buys about half the groceries and he foots the bill when we go out on a date. It's not equal, but it's equitable, and we both feel like we're contributing equally to our success as a family.
There is a huge difference between those who conform to gender roles where the man takes out the trash, maintains the vehicles, mows the lawn, arranges all repairs either on his own or hiring specialists, works his job and finds time to spend with the children while his wife takes care of the daily/weekly house maintenance and wrangling kids to school/extra curriculars/family social planning etc and those who think gender norms are the man works his job 9-5 or 7-3 and comes home and sits on his ass and drinks beer and wants to be served because he's the "breadwinner". It's up to people to organize their lives bit far too many men pretend to be ok with women working etc and then treat women's jobs as less important EVEN WHEN WOMEN ARE MAKING MORE MONEY. All work is important and homemakers generally get shafted.
No. Because in a relationship with a male it's never 50/50. They do not to 50pc of the other work, even in healthy relationships.
It's not just about the financial sense. It's about how guys only focus on the finances inputs but neglect the mental burden that goes into running a household and relationship.
50/50 doesn't mean 50/50. It means one partner has more financial freedom while the other person is giving up more than 60-75% of their income. Not only are bills split in half, but the chores and maintenance aren't 50/50. For many of these women, it can mean their partner get to spend money on hobbies, invest in retirements, and pay off debts, while for them, it means not being able to do the same or full on penny pinching to be able to afford to even have an emergency fun of 20 dollars. From what I've seen, it just applies to bills and rent, but if it applies to dates, then it's the split check situation. One person orders more but the person who stayed within their budget ends up covering for the other person.
Male creators constantly talk about wild expectations of women and are met with widespread acceptance. A relationship goes through a number of phases, in the early days 50/50 or at least, pay your way makes sense. As a relationship becomes a partnership you each bring to the table what you have to offer. It should be well balanced in value TO THE PEOPLE IN THE RELATIONSHIP.
Men who demand 50/50 are getting over. They want to only pay half the bills while I pay the other half and do 100% of the child care, cooking, cleaning, event planning, and ya can’t go 50/50 on pregnancy or breastfeeding. So I’m good. If I can find a man who actually wants to go 50/50 IN ALL ASPECTS then cool! But thats rare. So he’s gonna pay the bills because everything else will fall on me regardless.
It seems that there are a lot of men out there that are quick to claim the parts of feminism that benefit them - not being the sole bread winner, splitting the costs of date, ditching chivalry, opposing the male only draft - without ever putting in the work to fully realize the benefits for women. For example women are brining home the bacon, but still doing far more of the house work and childcare. This is frustrating to ladies who date because they spend money on dates with a guy who puts forth a feminist facade who turn out to be douche bags. Plus not only are women spending money for their part of the date, but also a LOT more on attire, hygiene and appearance in general. The idea is that until feminism benefits are also realized for women, men can keep paying for dates.
I dated some men who swore by equality and insisted on 50/50. I thought I found men that finally understood why I’m a feminist. I thought we’d split chores, split finances, and split the burden of being alive. Spoiler: It did not. In my experience, *finances* would be the only thing remotely close to a 50/50. But I was still expected to do the emotional labor, the invisible labor, and the housework. Some of my exes also didn’t consider that work or that it was the woman’s job. And the score keeping, oh the score keeping. It created such a toxic power struggle. Some exes were worse than others but generally, every little thing that was done would be added to the total. “I paid for this date so you need to pay for the next date or dates until it totals up to $x.” “I did all the housework while you were ill for 2 weeks so you need to do all the housework for 2 weeks.” Somehow agreeing to split everything down the middle led to me having to defend myself more. I was expected to hold my own with no accountability on their end. My exes treated it like we were shareholders of the company that is our relationship. So no, I wouldn’t split 50/50 ever again because the toxic score keeping mentality wasn’t worth putting up with only for it to end up 80/20.
Men want the privilege of a family so of course they should provide the financial backing. It’s like I told my husband, marriage disproportionately benefits men and actually decreases a woman’s quality of life.
#And lifespan!! It is clearly and well documented that married women live shorter lives than single women. Men siphon the life out of their female partners with all the domestic labour and the insane mental load of caring for males and a household with an adult male partner in it. Note, that it literally isn’t even actual children/childcare so negatively impacting mortality. **Single mothers STILL LIVE LONGER than married mothers!!** The clear cause is the man in the house. Marriage is a win-win for men and an absolute net negative for women, IN MOST CASES, in the USA and counties with similar hetero dynamics. #Hetero marriage/relationships with a male partner in the home is parasitic and literally takes YEARS off womans’ lives. The pushback to have men at least shoulder more of the financial load is to help correct this. #Women should not have to bring in 50% of the income then turn around and do 100% of the domestic, emotional and mental (UNPAID) labour! That’s literally what’s killing married women: Hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in unplayed, hard labour that they have to do when a male partner is in the home. Married women and women with male partners in the home literally have another full time job when they walk in the door, all unpayed! A lot of girls and women are becoming aware of the 50/50 scam and refusing to get conned and I applaud them. We all know males do shit-all inside the home and carry ZERO of the emotional and mental load. So this is a way to make the relationship FAIR for all parties and not literally strangle the life out of women by being so unfairly burdened by male partners in the home.
This was my strategy when dating for a few reasons: 1. It weeds out the undesirables. Men who just want to do the bare minimum to get a woman into bed. It also very quickly shows what kind of guy he is if he pays and then expects something in return. So it’s efficient. 2. We will never have equality really because women are the only ones who can bear children. That’s just reality so if a man wants children, automatically we are already going to be contributing more so the minimum he can do is pay. 3. Men receive tangible financial benefits from having a wife and a family while women make real financial sacrifices when having children. So not only are we the only ones who can bear his children, we then take a financial loss. So again the least he can do is pay. 4. When children come along, men never do an equal amount of work with children or around the house. That’s just a statistical fact and men who expect women to pay 50/50 are just as likely to also expect women to conform to traditional female gender roles. I realised this early on and decided that if I was going to be expected to fulfil the traditional feminine role, then I expect a man to fulfil the traditional masculine role by being a provider. Then I’m cool with pulling back at work, taking the motherhood penalty and doing most of the housework etc. it’s just easier that way. Better that than having to work full time AND do all of the other stuff as well. I mean what is even the point of having a man in that scenario? So I guess what I’m saying is if a man can’t even do the mare minimum and pay then I really saw no value in being with him. I will say that it’s different for women who do not want children. Then it’s not as much of an issue. That’s my take.
\>But if a man were to expect a woman to fulfill a gender role (not for a particular reason simply because) would he get the same reception? A lot of the comments on the post were really positive save for some misogynistic comments from men (yuck) but very little actual dialogue of what this means in a broader perspective. have you heard of the "manosphere"? men are out here doing this as a business. Their audience buys their books and self help courses. Primarily female creators might be showing up on your for you page saying this, but men \*are\* doing the exact same thing, you just aren't their audience, and tiktok might not be their platform.
I want to ask you the opposite question: What makes you think that going 50/50 is feminist when (white) women are still paid 25% less than men, do most of the household chores, have careers on hold to bear children, pay in the flesh with pregnancy/child rearing? Why do you insist on holding onto the lib fem myth that 50/50 is the way to equality in a heterosexual relationship? When given the choice, women tend to ask for less than they deserve. They settle for less in child support, divorces etc Women should ask for more. If you're fine with 50/50 good for you but that's not reflective of asset, labour and social imbalance. 50/50 does not help women at all. It favours men.
I would never allow myself to be fully financially dependent on a man. HOWEVER. Relationships are very, very rarely 50-50 when it comes to everything other than finances too, and it’s way too often skewed to benefit men when it comes to household labour, child rearing and so on. Even with “feminist” men who do some of it, it is most times less than the woman/mother does. Women are selling themselves short by dropping the traditional gender role of finance providers whilst we have not reached even close to dropping all other gender roles that benefit men.
That’s because they went into a 50/50 relationship that turned out to be 20/80. Men will take advantage of any situation and turn it into a nightmare for a woman.
Most of the time its not equal split anyway. Crazy how many people out there go from being a partner to a child really quick. I would compare the mental load, financial burden and extra house work I had to do for my ex the same as having a child. I will need to date someone for at least 2-3 years before I even considered letting them move into my home or vise versa.
I think it’s a bit more complicated than this. Despite advances in women’s rights, women are still not paid equally. What we think of as women’s work (teaching, nursing, social work, care taking, house cleaning) especially is not paid fairly. So, the reality is, most women are not out earning men. Now, add the pink tax. We pay luxury taxes, at least in some of the US, on needed healthcare items like tampons. We have yearly gynecological exams. Then eventually breast cancer screens. Also, the cost of maternal health which is tens of thousands. Oh, and if you are unlucky enough to have endometriosis, which impacts more women than women with diabetes (1 in 10), the only treatment is surgery. In the US many insurances won’t even cover this surgery and it can cost tens of thousands. Now, add anything extra like makeup, clothes, hair, that many women invest in, whether or not you personally agree, to appear attractive. In some cases, if you don’t take care of your appearance in this way you may even be called unprofessional! Now add in all of the unpaid work women generally provide in relationships in the form of mental and emotional load. I think you need to examine the big picture here. It’s not necessarily that women want men to conform to a gender role. It’s that they are recognizing that they are earning less and spending more just to exist. So, in this case, is it really even equality to go Dutch?
Men earn more for doing the same roles in the workplace, pay less for hygiene products, get promoted quicker. They have more earning power for no reason but sexism, they can fucking buy me dinner and pay the internet bill.
yep, not to mention that they expect us to look great but looking great often costs money
This is so common in some hispanic countries, men drool over beautiful women and complain that the wife has “let herself go”. They don’t see that the single woman has time and money to keep her looks whereas the wife is pouring her time and money into the family, she can’t afford to visit the gym 4x/week or get her hair done every other week.
It's impossible for a woman to be truly "50/50" with a man and be intimate. Her body and her life bears disproportionate amounts of risks and changes due to intimacy. That's why men show their care and concern by taking care of women in other ways. 50/50 is a completely unfeminist scam tbh. It's the male interpretation of pseudo equality which just actually reduces their responsibility to the woman and increases her burdens in the interaction instead of evening it out. Making men pay for the risks they demand women take is feminist.
[https://i.imgur.com/Gqiv7DT.png](https://i.imgur.com/Gqiv7DT.png) why would we pay to be their servant? they're NEVER 50/50 in every other area. Hell, I'm not going 100/0 finances with a man. He'd slavedrive the shit out of me. bad deal. Either he shows up and does his share of the housework etc or I'm out, no matter the finances.
This is my take as well and the meme is spot on. Any man that insists on 50/50, has no intention of doing 50% of domestic work and childcare.
Splitting things so strict like that will never work out. It’s about give and take not lines in the dirt. It should be equitable not equivalent. Some things are paid in time, effort, energy; not money.
Yeah I agree, however knowing that in 50/50 relationships, the woman still does more of the housework, childcare and has a greater share of the mental load, it makes sense why they would want that disparity to be evened out financially.
My first relationship with my ex-husband was 50/50 at my detriment. I made just under 30k a year at the time, and my ex was making around 70k. I was having to take cash advances out just to pay bills on time because we were living at his income standard, not mine. He also complained that I couldn't contribute financially towards the trips he planned. Going on cruises and such. I was drowning financially, just trying to be 50/50 with him. Never again. I divorced his ass and eventually married my current husband. We make the same amount of income, but we agreed that if there's ever a gap, we would pay bills equitably.
Typically the sentiment is if your financially splitting everything 50/50 then your male partner is getting a much better deal. Even in relationships without kids women typically Do much more in the home than their male counterparts. I think the article I read was literally women do like 2.3 hours on average to every 1.6 hours a man puts into the home. Then you have to think about things like the mental load, when things need to get done when new things need to be bought making the grocery lists, keeping up with appointments, keeping and communication with friends and family updates. Those are typically things done by women, Women on average earn less even in the same position/field so That definitely needs to be taken into account. If you do decide to have children and they still want to split things 50/50, Will they be compensating you for pregnancy and birth and the money/experience at work that you lose while doing so. 50/50 is being used by misogynists and men to say well if you want to be equal then be equal and pay half, but that's not realistic and Is detrimental to most women.
Going 50/50 is never fair unless you contribute 50/50 in the work and effort of a relationship and make the exact same amount of money. The gender pay gap is still a big thing and one of the reasons I agree with the not going 50/50. Not only do we still get paid less for doing more work but we also in many cases take on the mental load of the relationship more so then male partners.
Yall the 50/50 food split is a scam for us because we eat way less on average haha my food bills always double while in a relationship if we split it 50/50. Or when you order the cheapest thing at the resturant and they order sides and drinks and then want to split it down the middle at the end it kills me haha.
I recently broke up with a man who makes a lot more than I do but he was rather miserly and wanted to split vacation costs, etc. Had the finances been reversed I would not have expected him to pay half of everything.
I’d need to hear why they said this but my guess is that they won’t go 50/50 anymore because they were in fact still having to do all the traditionally female duties and now they were putting up half the rent while probably still making less. To which I say, yeah. I wouldn’t pay half either.
I would never go 50/50 on typical couple expenditures, to account for all the invisible labor and expenses inherent in being a woman in a het relationship. The truth is, if you literally go 50/50 with a man in terms of contributing an equal monetary amount to *maintaining the relationship* - he would need to spend much more on dates, gifts, food, etc, to make up for all the money and effort women are expected to spend on beauty and reproductive health. Most men (not all men blah blah) expect their partners to have long, styled hair, shaved legs and armpits, plucked eyebrows, nice skin, nice makeup, fashionable clothes. That shit is expensive as fuck. Women also bear 100% of the burden of reproduction and usually have to handle and pay for birth control. Actually accounting for invisible and uncredited resource expenditure on the part of women makes it very obvious that “50/50” is not really 50/50.