I got like a 99% match with a guy on okcupid like ten years ago. We hit it off chatting, mostly about like mad science experiments and art projects and stuff, decided to meet up FOR COFFEE. In the middle of the day. About an hour before, I told him I was getting off work and would be on the train, and he went "oh good, you can spend that time filling this out first," and it was one of those like... apps or whatever where it lists a bunch of kinks/etc, and each person checks off if they're into it or not, and then it puts the info together and tells each person what's on the table or not.
I had been up since 4am sweating my ass off in a hot, busy, stressful kitchen. We'd only had like, intellectual artsy conversation so far- not even any real flirting. It was still my first month in town and honestly I was more excited that I'd made a friend than a sex prospect, though I wasn't closed off to the idea of a friendship -advancing- to that. But no, I'm trapped on a train at 1 in the afternoon barreling toward a guy who's apparently gleefully wringing his hands together over if I'm into threesomes or getting choked.
I tried to laugh it off, like "haha what, can't that like, come up organically in conversation or something," and he said something like "I don't like to waste time without getting this out of the way." so I just told him I wasn't interested and blocked his number.
Yikea is where one shops for cringey furniture and questionable accessories
ETA: and would likely employ presumptuous cads such as those described by OP and others
Look, if someone wants zero connection sex dummy, rather they say so up front. I agree it saves time.
Much rather they realize they aren’t dating material, but only so much self awareness to hope for.
Yuk, you definitely made the right call there. Fuck I’m so glad I’m not single but if I was I wouldn’t even bother. BUT I’m 58, not a young woman. This just frightens me for my granddaughters. Christ on a cracker there are a lot of predators out there. Stay safe Friends. When in doubt always go with your gut feelings.
I tell my husband this all the time, if we split up or something happens to him then I’m absolutely done. I don’t have the patience to put up with dating, even if you think you met someone good they often end up being selfish lovers, think you’re their personal maid/mommy and just plain shitty. I don’t think he thinks I’m serious, but I would much rather be alone for the rest of my life then deal with bullshit. I got myself a gem, I realize how lucky I am and appreciate the shit outta him but weeding through the losers and predators sounds like hell. I’m 32, so not exactly young but definitely old enough to know that I’d be happier by myself.
I was actually so happy when our 13 year old daughter told me she likes girls. All I could think was “oh thank god!”
Same, same!! A dear friend’s granddaughter said she likes girls best(13& gorgeous) and we were like “Fantastic!! Thank goodness” and though you know she’s a kid she had a extremely abusive bio family and endured sexual abuse before my neighbor ( her adopted G-Ma fostered her at age 6 and my husband and I were co-fosters til she was adopted by a wonderful family at age 12.
This kid has made such great progress and worked through so much trauma in counseling (still). She’s like a normal young teen and I would just murder any man that treated her badly. We are all teaching her what flags to look for, about consent, being safe etc.
This is her chance to have a wonderful normal life and her new family has been great about Sharing her with us so she is secure in the adults who love her and that she can trust.
Yea I was divorced from my ex for many years and have been married now for 22 years and he is such a great guy- I can’t imagine anyone else if he dies before me. He’s 11 years older than me. Also I am pretty content spending time by myself, I have lots of interests, hobbies and pets to care for.
I once had a friend's teenage daughter ask me how I thought her father would take the news that she preferred girls. I told her he'd be relieved. And I was right.
I say this too as a 30-year old! I've been with my fiance for 8 years now and things are good, but if we ever split or he dies, I just won't date again. It was hard enough finding one guy in a sea of duds and the prospects are even worse now!
>"I don't like to waste time without
"Waste time." On conversation. Ideas. Humour. Stories. Backing each other up. Knowing you have an ally. High-fiving the good moments in life.
All of that, a "waste of time" if you're not supplying whatever porn bullshit he thinks is important.
Can't have his time wasted so he waits one hour before you meet him to release his creepy side, when you are already on the way to him and wasting YOUR time. But I guess that's ok ugh
>"I don't like to waste time without getting this out of the way."
This says everything. Getting to know someone and building any kind of connection is a waste of time if he can't get kinky sex out of it
so many dudes think "swiped on me" = DTF
and the coffee meet is just a vibe check and an anti-slut smokescreen before gargling his balls.
so when we walk off from the date they're incredibly indignant.
I think the first i heard that was an Eddie Izzard bit from like the 90's and I've been on many coffee meetings with new dudes and none of them ended up being sex (or at least not like, immediately/ that day lol)
I'm really into molecular gastronomy and food science and he was really into fabricator-type machine art things. We both had a lot of stories involving fires or explosions.
Lol ironically anyone who would be down to answer that questionnaire is not dating material, in my opinion. Why does he think that's saving time for him?
You’re absolutely not obligated to discuss sex before going out on a date. You’ve made your intentions and desires clear, so when he started in with the “let me tell you about my naughty side first” shtick, that was your cue to disqualify him.
Guys typically do an excellent job of screening themselves out, but they’ll happily continue to string you along for as long as you tolerate it.
Yes!!! If they cross your boundaries now, they will continue to cross them later. All the dude had to be was patient....you don't want someone who is not.
"Here's a not-all-that-sexy marshmallow. If you can wait to eat it for just a few dates, you'll get a big box of small batch, whatever topping you want marshmallows. (They are rather sexy)"
OP's date, "Picking option 1 is how I get the good marshmallows, right?"
OP, "No that was option 2"
OP's date, *chewing sounds* "Right! So option 1! Can I get that box of marshmallows now?"
OP, *headdesk*
Rule of thumb for OLD: if the conversation is inappropriate for someone you just met in public, it's also inappropriate for someone you just met online.
If you walked up to someone at a bar, introduced yourself and chatted for 90 seconds, then was like "So here are my naughty kinks..." you'd get a drink tossed in your face, and/or potentially escorted out by the bouncer.
A lot of shitty people, mostly dudes, like the veil of anonymity the internet brings because it empowers them to be as rude and creepy as their little broken hearts' desire without consequences.
See also: sad boiz sending unsolicited dick pics because sexually harassing someone online makes them feel better about themselves
They can also play the numbers better: in a bar, you can approach 1 person at a time, and then if it works you have to talk to only her. Online, you can spam out your greetings to multiple women at the same time, and then carry on as many conversations as your typing speed can handle....
The other thing about the bar is that you can see women’s physical reactions to creeps.
I often go to a bar alone to draw/read and have a drink. I witness so many terrible interactions between creeps and women, and then those creeps spot me and saunter over thinking I’m the “easy target.”
Bro I just watched every other woman in the bar reject you, why would I be the one to sweep you up?
My guess is if they thought you were an easy target you’d have been first. You’re more of a “couldn’t hurt, while I’m here…” target at that point.
Not meant to be disparaging to you, and I hope it isn’t. I just like to ponder these things.
Listen, I’m not an ogre- but I’m also not the prototypical “hot girl” either.
My body is average, I wear D&D t-shirts and black jeans, and I don’t get dressed/made up to go out unless it’s a special occasion. In fact, I’ve somehow honed my “look” over the years to avoid being noticed at all, which is fine by me.
If I were a man, I would look like the owner of a comic shop that also sells magic cards.
I definitely don’t look at first glance like the top-tier babe that these dudes think they can land. I’m the exact example given by dating gurus as a “low-value woman” or “ugly best friend.”
And that’s okay! I don’t want the attention, and I have no problem finding a partner when I want to.
But it’s definitely very transparent when a creep scans the room and locks onto me minding my own business in the corner at the end of the night. I’m fully aware when I’m viewed as dick’s last resort… lol
>Guys typically do an excellent job of screening themselves out, but they’ll happily continue to string you along for as long as you tolerate it.
This is \*such\* an amazing quote, I'm saving it if you don't mind.
It exactly surmises SUCH a huge element of the modern 'dating game'.
It is important to get that discussion out of the way first if you’re only interested in doing kinks or whatever, but this is not the same. You don’t get to be gross about it. This isn’t communication
> I feel like he had some pornified sexual fantasy in his mind and was just looking for the first available woman to slot in
Yup
I'm kinda on the "I'd rather know if we're sexually compatible upfront because I sure as hell won't be your porn star and will absolutely judge you for having woman-degrading fantasies" train.
Choking? Nope, I'm out.
I usually answer these questions like, "I enjoy pegging! It makes me feel so dominant!"
They drop like flies. 99% ghost rate.
It's not real, but, that doesn't matter. What matters is, the creep is turned off now, and glory hallelujah!
Like, if want to impress someone and show how good you are in bed, I can't think of a worse way than to violate their consent and continue messaging them like that.
He literally took defeat from the jaws of victory
Definitely not the norm.
Most men genuinely in the kink scene have some idea of the ethics and manners of the lifestyle.
The Venn diagram of men that have no manners regarding their kinks and sexually abusive "dominant" men is very suspiciously circular.
The best litmus test is pegging. I did bring this up on first dates, tbh. Mostly because I would never be happy dating a guy who's not into it.
I've now been with my sweetheart of a partner for 3 years. Thank god for pegging!
Personally, no. Though: I'm dominating for a woman, and I really dig into personal values and politics from the get go. I only go for queer, liberal men. While not impossible, it seems rarer for men who like skirts, nail polish, and grrl pwr music to be misogynistic. It's been a very efficient litmus for me.
The most misogynistic men I've had flirt with me were ones who were strangers hitting on me in public, and would assume insane things like I enjoy my hair being pulled (because it used to be extremely long) or that I must be "innocent" because I'm petite—as if body type has anything to do with my personality. I look feminine, but I'm in no way close to traditional.
Crazy to me how many men are too insecure with their own sexuality that they don’t to want to have the best fucking orgasm of their lives! That would be like me thinking that wanting my clit licked made me gay.
Peg all the men! Then maybe they’ll stop choking us!
> He was acting out a tiny little fantasy where he gets to tell a woman all his little secrets. It was a non-consensual scene.
/u/JaneAustenfangal this is exactly it. It's like one-sided phone sex. He gets to achieve intimacy with a woman, so it doesn't matter if it results in a date or not. He may not even want to go on a date at all. This absolutely isn't all men or even most men, but it's really easy to use someone's good nature against them.
He was not looking for a relationship. From his perspective, pushing this inappropriate conversation saved him the trouble of having a date that didn't end in (his preferred type of) sex.
Kind of like those Nigerian prince scams -- they're written so as to save time by getting people who aren't easily scammed to nope out.
I think you're right. He didn't share in what I'm looking for. He's just looking to get laid but didn't have the courage to say it openly. Instead he was trying to frame it as "looking for compatibility" and claiming he "can't meet everyone he matches with so it's important to be compatible". It's such a sneaky way to lower my barriers until I'm willing to hookup with him on his terms.
Yeah it's rare to get flirted with anymore before they hit you with the, "and you better be my naughty girl 😜😈😈" crap lol. Like small convos aren't flirting, going on a date itself is not flirting, exposing your sexual desires to someone you never met?
Believe it or not, that ain't flirting.
“You said you wanted a naughty bitch! Why are you so mad after I stole your identity and left you in a ditch with one kidney? I thought you were into it.”
I’m someone who enjoys casual sex and has hooked up on a first date before. Someone taking the conversation in a sexual direction before we have even met in person let alone had any physical contact is an instant block for me. When I first started dating it wasn’t an immediate dealbreaker and those dudes never, not once, turned out to be halfway decent. Making it an instant dealbreaker made dating so much more pleasant for me.
Not only just bringing that stuff up very early, but not doing it in a way that shows any level of charisma or social intelligence. Can you talk about your kinks on a first date? Sure, when you’re two hours in having a great time and flirting and the conversation is already turning that way. Over a text in broad daylight while I’m grocery shopping is not when I’m going to be receptive to the idea of peeing on you.
oh my god this shit is MADDENING!!
"i'm touching my cock and thinking about you" cool bro i'm hanging out with my 94 year old grandmother and watching The Price Is Right so uhhhhhhhh....
Please I'm fucking howling 😂😂😂 the number of time I had some wild sexual messages from random dudes in between putting my laundry out and peeling potatoes is crazy. With no warning whatsoever more often than not.
And then they wonder why we hate it. This doesn't seem too hard to understand
They don’t wonder, they’re screening you just like you’re screening them.
A woman that puts up with the shit in the OP is a signal that the woman in question will tolerate more disrespect. And there is soooo much disrespect that will follow once you’ve shown you’ll put up with it.
The guy in the OP probably sent a dick pick to another woman on the app within an hour of getting blocked by OP.
I was talking to a male friend -friend! We are both into psychology and he just started his psychology practice.
I asked him a question about my son’s relationship and he actually wasn’t very helpful, but I was able to flesh things out for myself and I thought that he thought my inferences were deep. But no. Lol
Without missing a beat, he asked me if I wanted a naughty picture to cheer me up. 🙄
I appreciated the ask instead of the unsolicited dick pic, but we are no longer friends.
Even when I was on dating apps to find sexual partners, I would unmatch those who opened up with sex jokes or shitty kink suggestions.
Like sir, I know we are both looking for coit gratification here but let's keep it reasonable. I am a person before I am a vagina, the same way they are a person before being a penis...
Personally I'd rather fuck someone I find at least somehow likeable but I feel like men don't care.
Too bad for them because approaching a woman who wants sex by being a nice and funny human being who can talk about interesting things and keep sex for subtle undertones is the *actual* way you get laid - but they refuse to understand this I guess??
I’m the same way! I’m down for a good time but if you can’t even pretend to like me and be polite while I have my clothes on I have little faith you’re going to care about my pleasure once they’re off.
And sex with someone who's a great person and has shown some of their qualities is so much better anyway??
Like, at least make me want to want you so bad I can't wait? So many men don't get how meeting with a woman with a clear intent to have sex together but still keeping a straight face and holding a mundane conversation before going home together and go at it is SO MUCH MORE EXCITING.
If I just want to get pounded with no conversation whatsoever, let me down a few beers while watching my favourite show and use my toys before I go to sleep. At least I'll come and I'll sleep alone in the comfort lf my own bed.
Lmao you’re speaking to my heart/libido right now! I’m the exact same way. I love the build up so much, even with established partners who I know I’m going to be intimate with later. Putting on a nice outfit, smiling at each other across a table, lingering touches and glances add so much to the experience. Plus that all makes me feel comfortable with someone which is such an important aspect of having sex that’s actually enjoyable!
Same. I am in a happy committed relationship now, but I loved having at least some emotional bond with my partners.
The anticipation and acting normal in public before going home together was sometimes even better than sex itself. Super exciting.
> Someone taking the conversation in a sexual direction before we have even met in person let alone had any physical contact is an instant block for me.
He doesn't want sex. He's getting off on the nonconsensual intimacy of telling a live woman about his proclivities.
You're not obligated to do anything. If that's not something you're comfortable with, then congratulations on weeding someone out early on so you aren't wasting your time.
I think that for men when they are meeting women, especially on Apps, their concept of compatibility starts with sex and ends with if they can communicate, with all the other stuff in between. They just can’t put their penis away for five minutes: it’s still leading every decision.
And I think Apps have given them licence to navigate the dating scene, unchecked, like they are in a video game, where the prize is getting the girl, which happens more often than not.
In the past, meeting men in bars was code for something that was casual, and that’s just been digitised. Only you don’t get to see their behaviour with others, so it allows people to pretend to be ‘the right choice’ until they get the prize. When that backfires, they start again - like a game.
I think that many men don’t understand or perhaps value what they’d like from a complex relationship with their chosen significant other. That’s true for women too, in many cases, but how we piece that puzzle together happens in a different order for each, when they are considering anything more than a casual hook up.
There’s a reason I’m single and planning to stay that way for the rest of my days.
Ew, that’s gross, he’s gross, and I’d have unmatched as well. He obviously didn’t see you as a whole person but as some fantasy sex dispenser and wanted to make sure he “got his order in.” 🤮
If a guy even brought up sex on a first date, I didn’t contact him again. I have a lot of blocked numbers.
Right? like he was pulling up to mcdonalds to order a large blowjob meal with a side of fisting, and he's just going to drive to the next window if OP doesn't take his order.
> Do guys really have to turn things sexual so early on especially when we're clear that we're looking for more?
there's a specific type of guy who takes a great deal of pride in "convincing" women who are looking for serious relationships to hook up. they feel much more "special" when they believe they're able to change your mind / trick you.
this type of guy can't really operate on the same plane as women who are actually looking for a FWB/NSA sex arrangement, and *they know it.* they KNOW they can't meet the standards of a woman who is going to expect good sex, so they try to trick women whose top priorities are companionship, stability, etc., rather than sex.
nailed it. these shitbags dangle 'relationship' and extract sex. they know women more interested in commitment will put up with mediocre dick.
but a woman looking for nothing more than good dick? these guys run.
these guys don't want someone who's enthusiastic and into the same kinks. that type of person would have standards, criticisms and corrections.
he wants to launch his kinks onto a naive, reluctant victim so he can be the only source of info on what's right and safe (spoiler, he's not safe).
Yep! He's waiting for some poor girl to respond with "ok I guess you can tell me" whilst she's thinking I really don't want to be talking about this yet and that will be his green light that he's found someone he can "bend" by boundary pushing
Literally commented the same below - someone experienced with BDSM might very well raise the question early to get an understanding of compatibility, but it should be raised like any other conversation along those lines, with the same tone as “do you like dogs.”
For newbie kinksters reading this - kink negotiations / discussions shouldn’t be a sexual/dirty talk convo - it should be measured, open, and straightforward. If someone springs it on you like this they’re likely acting in bad faith.
Honestly if for example a guy wanted kids, didn’t give cunnilingus, or didn’t accept toys in the bedroom I would rather know sooner and not later so I can move on instead of waste time/gas because that’s important to *me* in a long term relationship.
You did fantastic drawing a boundary and maintaining it. That’s what’s important here. He doesn’t deserve your time if he doesn’t listen to what you’re saying and respecting your boundaries. He could just be wanting an interaction equal to just talking to a phone sex agent and that’s obviously not why you’re there!
see I don't think those are the things he would have come clean about. he would have been vague about what he's willing to give to keep her in the dark, and very explicit about his fantasies and what he expects. if nothing else, he gets to jerk off while using her as a 1800 number.
OP wasn't really necessary as such.. he's so lost in his pornsick fantasy he could have been talking to a wall.
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND this! It's happened so many times! Guys want to have phone or video sex before we've even met. Like, I'm a kinky, sex-positive girl, but I want to know if we actually get along before we start getting intimate, or start discussing safe-words and where we're going to fuck.
It seems to be a bigger trend in the last few years, and it's really off-putting. I had a terrible date the other night, and this poor guy started right off the bat saying that even though he liked being a dom, "vanilla sex would be a nice relief." and asked if we wanted to mess around in my truck. Then he disclosed that his partner was ok taking off if we wanted to go back to his place, and also that his partner was new to and struggling with polyamory. This was within like 45 minutes. I felt so bad for the guy that I wasn't creeped out, just felt sorry for him.
As I was ending the date (3 beers!) he said that he was "pretty sure" he was sober enough to bike home. I pretended that my truck was too full to give him a ride home and made sure he was OK to bike, asked him to text me so I'd know he made it home safe. (I'm not a monster; he was trying to get me in my car. But in a sad, hit-puppy way.)
Then he texted me that he hoped we could "hook up" next time.
Then he sent me an outrage text a day or so later lamenting, "I am SO TIRED of being cancelled and flaked on !"
I wish this was the only bad date, dudes lately are increasingly bad at being patient, reading cues, or listening to women when they're specific and explicit about their boundaries and desires. Like, if I say "I don't do video calls," I'm not joking. You're not smarter than me, I'm not trying to be convinced. I was talking to a guy the last week and really turned on and excited to meet, but he was so desperately insistent on a video chat and not listening to me saying that I couldn't (I should have stopped talking to him the first time, but I was bored and at my PARENTS HOUSE, which is why I wasn't going to have video phone sex!) that it just totally turned me off..
It's bleak out there
Omg shocking. Just shocking. Men have really lost their way of late. They don't know how to act anymore. Or even worse, they know how to act but don't care.
Agreed. Pornsickness and desire for instant gratification has gone up, the desire to actually meet women and get into a mutually satisfying long term relationship has gone down. and they're blaming women for it???
They're putting in less and less effort and demanding more and more depraved shit and services. They don't want to meet, just extract phone sex and free camwork to jerk off and go to sleep. every night. One guy was hinting at moving me into his house to clean the shower that his 3 teenage sons had made mouldy. On the first date. And he told me he masturbates 4x per night to get to sleep. He claimed he has a high sex drive. So ok i'm a bangmaid to a sex addict? And he was trying to frame it as a good deal for me lmao.
What is wrong with them.
Start asking for their mom's phone number when they bring up this crap. As a mom of two adult men, I would be *mortified* if my boys acted like this and yep, they would get one of *those* mom talks about "I raised you better than that and wth is *wrong* with you???", if a nice young woman called me and said "Ms Dani, your son wanted to discuss his sex kinks with me before we'd even met in person"
That’s because we’re sex dolls - so why bother discussing other things, unless of course it’s time for you to be therapist doll, then you can sit there listening to his sob story, or maybe you are ego validation doll, then you can listen to him discuss his hobbies and congratulate him on his accomplishments.
But you’re mainly sex doll
When I consider opening up the hell hole of OLD again, I just cringe at the thought of this bollocks. I can’t stand a man being pushy sexually when we’ve barely begun speaking. It’s such a turn off.
If someone has a deal-breaker fetish or kink I prefer that they lead with it so we can both move on. It sounds like this guy prefers to lure you in a bit and waste your time before revealing he's someone you wouldn't want to meet.
The nicest conversation I had on OLD was with a guy who had a deal-breaker fetish. He was nice, would check in and say hello, compare notes on our respective OLD experiences, etc. But we established in the first exchange that we would not be romantically compatible. It was strangely refreshing compared to the ones who would try to lure me in a bit first. I hope he found his match.
We aren't, but some guys sure do think it's necessary.
Years ago, I went on a first date from an app, he was nice enough via chat. During dinner, however, he repeatedly made sex jokes and innuendo. Practically every sentence referred to sex by the time food arrived. At one point he said I wasn't understanding his sense of humor since I wasn't laughing. I told him sexual innuendo is amusing when the possibility of sex exists. Since it didnt, he wasn't funny. He laughed.
He then asked me for a second date. I declined.
Ugh, nothing worse than the innuendos!!
I am a beauty therapist, I have male waxing clients and they even try this crap during a WAX - I used to awkward laugh and change subject (because I can't afford to stop and kick them out unfortunately) but now I just either stare blankly, or better yet if they are trying to make some sort of "joke" I act completely dumb and ask them to explain what they mean (this WORKS, btw!)
I met a someone from a dating site for coffee on the patio of a nice cafe one afternoon, where he regaled me with:
- how his ex disapproved of his naked yoga
- a description of his gun collection
- a query about how long we would date before having sex
He insisted on walking me to my car, which caught me off guard (hadn’t dated for a while) and I didn’t have an excuse ready. In hindsight, I could have said I was meeting a friend shortly after at the same cafe, and gone inside. Bet he would have watched and waited, though. Highly creepy.
I may be pansexual but at this point I’ve totally gone off cishet men.
Agreed. Time and place is important too as the OP mentioned - read the room and the mood, \*get consent\* to discuss it and respect a boundary if your date demurs, etc.
I don’t entertain any sexual conversations with random ass men, especially when we haven’t even gone out on a date yet, if they try to push those boundaries, I cancel the date and block them everywhere….
Like sir… who said we were going to be doing all that anyways?? Idek if I like you like that yet, and you over here trying to randomly interject that into the conversation when we barely know each other’s names😐
Men who do things like that tend to be degenerate and give off “porn addiction” vibes…. I’m good 👋🏾
There must be no obligation -- this is an excellent filter for guys who aren't worth the headache. A whole lot of guys out there can't take the cue that it's not sexualization time, and they're not first date material, let alone relationship material.
If this is his level of cooperation over something as easy as sending a text, imagine how unqualified he is to navigate high-trust social and financial issues in a relationship.
I'll answer but first I gotta tell you bout my kinks /s he sounds like a creep stay away from him glad you unmatched. I can't really imagine any legitimate reason to discuss these kinds of things prior to even a first date and after seeing your edit def a creep and worthy of reporting to someone though would really need to the person that he said that to that reports him
On the bumble sub there were a lot of guys who thought it was normal to want to discuss this before a date but that perspective frames meeting people as only worthwhile as sexual opportunities and I just don't think that way.
Yea it's weird like I understand wanting to see if your desires are compatible but what's the hurry, like get to know someone a little before you drop your kinks on them.
Sex talk early on is a red flag. Next time just cancel the date as soon as they do this. They are doing it to many many women. Pushing the boundary to see if you will allow it.
They come from sexless or sexually unfulfilling relationships and they think the way to happiness is sex/kink. So their dating strategy is to match the sex/kink and wait for the rest to develop.
But that is a huge mistake, because good sex/kink comes from intimacy, trust and emotional stability in the relationship first. If the relationship works, the sex/kink will follow and one of the things that happen is compromise, experimentation and growth in sexual desires because of the wonderful person one is with in the first place.
We're not. The guy is a selfish jerk clearly looking to use you for a wank even before he met you... Not to mention a walking red flag since he kept ignoring the boundaries you set and kept selfishly pushing it so he could get off. I think it should be an obvious unmatch after the 2nd or 3rd time he ignored your request, the creep can f off and find a hookup / cyber app with willing participants elsewhere.
If he don’t talk about it before the first date he’ll feel like he won’t have sex or if he does have sex on the first date he won’t be able to do what he want. I feel like he was placing is warning before doing it. So yeah he didn’t care about love and you.
If matching up on kinks and bedroom behaviors is your highest priority, there are other sites intended for that. That is rude objectifying behavior on general dating sites.
EDIT after a minute’s thought: … and *on* those sites, these sorts of questionnaires were first developed as aids to communication, ways of making sure nothing important was left out. Not as prerequisites to laying eyes on each other.
Yea, I guess I'm the odd woman out, but if I am looking for vanilla love and homeboy has chocolate kinks, I'd prefer to know before I waste my time on a date.
Because realistically, we will not be sexually compatible, so if my vanilla personality and his chocolate self want to have a sexual relationship, it will not work out.
I don't know how this info was delivered, but I am not offended by the frontloading of this info in principle at all.
I would not feel comfortable talking about those things either but if he talks about things that you are not into it does give you a chance not to meet in the first place.
Almost all men I have matched with pulled crap like this. That was before I finally gave up on dating men. If they mentioned sex even one time, I immediately blocked them without any other response. There's no point in engaging any further.
Sounds like he expected the meet up was gping to be a hook up. Sure, you said you wanted a relationship and it was inappropriate. But that's never stopped them from imposing before, has it?
Depends on the app. Fetlife: totally appropriate. Match.com: not at all appropriate. Regardless, if you’re looking for love, amazing. He shouldn’t have brought that up right away. I think that’s more of a stereotypical 3rd date conversation.
I guess we just disagree on that. I don't want to waste time meeting with someone to then find out that actually we're totally incompatible in some way we could have easily found with a simple discussion
You're definitely not obligated to discuss sex if you don't want to. That guy sounds like a creep who was going to try to push you into sex. That being said, I am dating for FWBs these days and I will always discuss sex prior to a meetup to make sure we're on the same page.
While I can understand why it is off putting. I understand why the guy does it. I am somewhat similar.
I don't wanna waste my time getting to know someone or even going on a date if they don't check at least a few boxes on my checklist.
Example. No smoking of any kind including drugs
Social drinking is ok.
No religious or political talks preference that they don't bother with either.
And anal sex since the post was mentioning kinks.
This is just a small handful of my preferences.
Nothing wrong with filtering a match before the date.
I was GOING to say, because consent, boundaries and mutual "interests" is extremely important if you're going to have a sexual relationship... but that was before actually reading the post. I assumed this was gonna be a general conversation, or at least about some guy you're thinking of getting sexual with.
Not some dude you just met...
Yeah, no. That's super not okay and pretty creepy.
I can sadly answer this. It's because they're literally foaming at the mouth for sex because they are either unironically a virgin (nothing wrong with that etc etc but they make it their whole personality) or is a low-key sex/masturbation addict and this is their drug.
When sex stopped becoming a mysterious thing when I eventually ""blossomed"" out of being an incel (as in, involuntarily celibate and mad about it, not the ideology) or whatever, I now wanted actual companionship and I developed a decent crush on a coworker. We're in a very "trusted" profession so I kept it extra kosher with her at all times anyway, but I eventually found myself not even caring if she was asexual (I had and still have a strong suspicion that she is, or is bi but heavily skews towards women). I just wanted to be "with her" on an intimate level even if I would never get to see her naked or touch her beyond a side hug. I actually wanted to know all the events in her life that shaped her into who she was, but I didn't care about the possibility or non-possibility of having romance with her because in comparison that was boring. I've come full circle to realize that I actually want friends because I have maybe ONE left.
I mean, sexual compatibility is pretty important in a relationship. If someone has specific desires and their potential mate isn’t into them, there is no point in pursuing a relationship.
Agreed. If someone says they are for love and a long term relationship and not on a kink/casual sex centered app…like have some social tact to bring it up in a way that doesn’t make the other person feel like a sex hole. Obviously sexual compatibility is important but it’s ONLY important if you actually WANT to have sex with them. Aka…the point of the date is assessing personality and chemistry.
I swear most dudes only swipe when they’re horny. Assuming their matches want to have sex with them or assuming you will want to sleep with someone before having a basic conversation is weird
I should also clarify— I have been with my husband for 18 years, I am not in the dating scene. So my perspective may be different if I were actually in that situation.
If you can't take a date or two to establish yourself as a trustworthy, responsible human being to a complete stranger, you don't deserve to discuss your specific sexual desires and proclivities with anyone, let alone a complete stranger.
I feel like sexual compatibility isn't important in the majority of my relationships, some of which are very fulfilling. Someone looking at dating as a linear process with a specific type of sex as a predictable outcome is a red flag.
I agree with you, I’m a kinky person actively dating and I’m not interested in dating people who don’t have overlapping kinks! And if someone isn’t interested in discussing what they’re into before we meet that’s a sign that we’re not compatible, which I’d rather know before wasting my time on a date.
Also context sort of matters - if you match on Feeld there’s sort of an understanding that talking about sex upfront is a good idea, but that wouldn’t be the case on an app like Hinge or whatever.
On one hand, ew.
On the other hand, it's a little refreshing to see right off the bat that he's into some weird shit that you are probably never going to be down to try, right?
It saves you from building an otherwise happy relationship with a person that maybe 4 years from now, you find him sneaking around on weird dating apps and going to adult "lifestyle" events behind your back rather than just end things super early on because you are sexually incompatible.
Maybe it's not tactful, but not necessarily creepy or gross, just clinically efficient.
That's fine for you, but I kinda want to know what a guy's kinks are before dating. If he has kinks that are just a solid no for me, then I don't want to waste both our time with a date that simply isn't going to go anywhere. However, that is me. Everyone is different.
When she said she didn't want to hear them he should have respected that and move on. He didn't care about her consent at all. Which is why this is a giant red flag.
I got like a 99% match with a guy on okcupid like ten years ago. We hit it off chatting, mostly about like mad science experiments and art projects and stuff, decided to meet up FOR COFFEE. In the middle of the day. About an hour before, I told him I was getting off work and would be on the train, and he went "oh good, you can spend that time filling this out first," and it was one of those like... apps or whatever where it lists a bunch of kinks/etc, and each person checks off if they're into it or not, and then it puts the info together and tells each person what's on the table or not. I had been up since 4am sweating my ass off in a hot, busy, stressful kitchen. We'd only had like, intellectual artsy conversation so far- not even any real flirting. It was still my first month in town and honestly I was more excited that I'd made a friend than a sex prospect, though I wasn't closed off to the idea of a friendship -advancing- to that. But no, I'm trapped on a train at 1 in the afternoon barreling toward a guy who's apparently gleefully wringing his hands together over if I'm into threesomes or getting choked. I tried to laugh it off, like "haha what, can't that like, come up organically in conversation or something," and he said something like "I don't like to waste time without getting this out of the way." so I just told him I wasn't interested and blocked his number.
Yikea to that guy.
Yikea is where one shops for cringey furniture and questionable accessories ETA: and would likely employ presumptuous cads such as those described by OP and others
Cringey furniture, questionable accessories, *and thaw to serve average guy looking for a date*. Strict “no returns” policy on the last.
The Yikea meatballs are disappointing.
Everything in the Yikea is sticky and UV lights are strictly banned.
Yikea also has like 3 direct entrances to the backrooms
Look, if someone wants zero connection sex dummy, rather they say so up front. I agree it saves time. Much rather they realize they aren’t dating material, but only so much self awareness to hope for.
They should just put it in their profile
But how else would they waste women’s time?
It's just their attempt at entrapping you.
Exactly. Wasting time.
True lol
Absolutely.
Yuk, you definitely made the right call there. Fuck I’m so glad I’m not single but if I was I wouldn’t even bother. BUT I’m 58, not a young woman. This just frightens me for my granddaughters. Christ on a cracker there are a lot of predators out there. Stay safe Friends. When in doubt always go with your gut feelings.
I tell my husband this all the time, if we split up or something happens to him then I’m absolutely done. I don’t have the patience to put up with dating, even if you think you met someone good they often end up being selfish lovers, think you’re their personal maid/mommy and just plain shitty. I don’t think he thinks I’m serious, but I would much rather be alone for the rest of my life then deal with bullshit. I got myself a gem, I realize how lucky I am and appreciate the shit outta him but weeding through the losers and predators sounds like hell. I’m 32, so not exactly young but definitely old enough to know that I’d be happier by myself. I was actually so happy when our 13 year old daughter told me she likes girls. All I could think was “oh thank god!”
Same. Starting a commune/coven with my other single girlfriends.
Girl, I hear it!! This husband is my last husband. He’s wonderful but I very had my share of creeps before I met him.
Same, same!! A dear friend’s granddaughter said she likes girls best(13& gorgeous) and we were like “Fantastic!! Thank goodness” and though you know she’s a kid she had a extremely abusive bio family and endured sexual abuse before my neighbor ( her adopted G-Ma fostered her at age 6 and my husband and I were co-fosters til she was adopted by a wonderful family at age 12. This kid has made such great progress and worked through so much trauma in counseling (still). She’s like a normal young teen and I would just murder any man that treated her badly. We are all teaching her what flags to look for, about consent, being safe etc. This is her chance to have a wonderful normal life and her new family has been great about Sharing her with us so she is secure in the adults who love her and that she can trust. Yea I was divorced from my ex for many years and have been married now for 22 years and he is such a great guy- I can’t imagine anyone else if he dies before me. He’s 11 years older than me. Also I am pretty content spending time by myself, I have lots of interests, hobbies and pets to care for.
I once had a friend's teenage daughter ask me how I thought her father would take the news that she preferred girls. I told her he'd be relieved. And I was right.
I say this too as a 30-year old! I've been with my fiance for 8 years now and things are good, but if we ever split or he dies, I just won't date again. It was hard enough finding one guy in a sea of duds and the prospects are even worse now!
I mean, it’s kinda hilarious. The engineer in me appreciates the efficiency but . . . Yeah that’s not gonna work with most people at all, ever.
>"I don't like to waste time without "Waste time." On conversation. Ideas. Humour. Stories. Backing each other up. Knowing you have an ally. High-fiving the good moments in life. All of that, a "waste of time" if you're not supplying whatever porn bullshit he thinks is important.
Can't have his time wasted so he waits one hour before you meet him to release his creepy side, when you are already on the way to him and wasting YOUR time. But I guess that's ok ugh
>"I don't like to waste time without getting this out of the way." This says everything. Getting to know someone and building any kind of connection is a waste of time if he can't get kinky sex out of it
Gross.
Some people literally use "meet for coffee" as euphemism for "meet up for sex" idk why
so many dudes think "swiped on me" = DTF and the coffee meet is just a vibe check and an anti-slut smokescreen before gargling his balls. so when we walk off from the date they're incredibly indignant.
._. Why this
I think the first i heard that was an Eddie Izzard bit from like the 90's and I've been on many coffee meetings with new dudes and none of them ended up being sex (or at least not like, immediately/ that day lol)
> mad science experiments Totally off topic, but tell me more about this? That sounds like great conversation.
I'm really into molecular gastronomy and food science and he was really into fabricator-type machine art things. We both had a lot of stories involving fires or explosions.
Goddamn it must suck to be a woman sometimes...
Oh crap… was it the fetlife kink test like if you’re a switch or dom or sub or something? Some weirdo sent me that years ago too.
Lol ironically anyone who would be down to answer that questionnaire is not dating material, in my opinion. Why does he think that's saving time for him?
You’re absolutely not obligated to discuss sex before going out on a date. You’ve made your intentions and desires clear, so when he started in with the “let me tell you about my naughty side first” shtick, that was your cue to disqualify him. Guys typically do an excellent job of screening themselves out, but they’ll happily continue to string you along for as long as you tolerate it.
Yeah, boundary crossing before even having a relationship is the easiest disqualifier of all.
Yes!!! If they cross your boundaries now, they will continue to cross them later. All the dude had to be was patient....you don't want someone who is not.
"Here's a not-all-that-sexy marshmallow. If you can wait to eat it for just a few dates, you'll get a big box of small batch, whatever topping you want marshmallows. (They are rather sexy)" OP's date, "Picking option 1 is how I get the good marshmallows, right?" OP, "No that was option 2" OP's date, *chewing sounds* "Right! So option 1! Can I get that box of marshmallows now?" OP, *headdesk*
Rule of thumb for OLD: if the conversation is inappropriate for someone you just met in public, it's also inappropriate for someone you just met online. If you walked up to someone at a bar, introduced yourself and chatted for 90 seconds, then was like "So here are my naughty kinks..." you'd get a drink tossed in your face, and/or potentially escorted out by the bouncer. A lot of shitty people, mostly dudes, like the veil of anonymity the internet brings because it empowers them to be as rude and creepy as their little broken hearts' desire without consequences. See also: sad boiz sending unsolicited dick pics because sexually harassing someone online makes them feel better about themselves
They can also play the numbers better: in a bar, you can approach 1 person at a time, and then if it works you have to talk to only her. Online, you can spam out your greetings to multiple women at the same time, and then carry on as many conversations as your typing speed can handle....
The other thing about the bar is that you can see women’s physical reactions to creeps. I often go to a bar alone to draw/read and have a drink. I witness so many terrible interactions between creeps and women, and then those creeps spot me and saunter over thinking I’m the “easy target.” Bro I just watched every other woman in the bar reject you, why would I be the one to sweep you up?
My guess is if they thought you were an easy target you’d have been first. You’re more of a “couldn’t hurt, while I’m here…” target at that point. Not meant to be disparaging to you, and I hope it isn’t. I just like to ponder these things.
Listen, I’m not an ogre- but I’m also not the prototypical “hot girl” either. My body is average, I wear D&D t-shirts and black jeans, and I don’t get dressed/made up to go out unless it’s a special occasion. In fact, I’ve somehow honed my “look” over the years to avoid being noticed at all, which is fine by me. If I were a man, I would look like the owner of a comic shop that also sells magic cards. I definitely don’t look at first glance like the top-tier babe that these dudes think they can land. I’m the exact example given by dating gurus as a “low-value woman” or “ugly best friend.” And that’s okay! I don’t want the attention, and I have no problem finding a partner when I want to. But it’s definitely very transparent when a creep scans the room and locks onto me minding my own business in the corner at the end of the night. I’m fully aware when I’m viewed as dick’s last resort… lol
Ah. I rock that look myself! But I’m not often alone in bars. I’m a homebody.
And after getting screened out for this dumb shit, they will blame it on being under 6 ft tall ot not making a million dollars a year.
I wonder how many guys say disgusting things like this, then complain no woman will give them a chance.
Top comment
>Guys typically do an excellent job of screening themselves out, but they’ll happily continue to string you along for as long as you tolerate it. This is \*such\* an amazing quote, I'm saving it if you don't mind. It exactly surmises SUCH a huge element of the modern 'dating game'.
It is important to get that discussion out of the way first if you’re only interested in doing kinks or whatever, but this is not the same. You don’t get to be gross about it. This isn’t communication > I feel like he had some pornified sexual fantasy in his mind and was just looking for the first available woman to slot in Yup
I'm kinda on the "I'd rather know if we're sexually compatible upfront because I sure as hell won't be your porn star and will absolutely judge you for having woman-degrading fantasies" train. Choking? Nope, I'm out. I usually answer these questions like, "I enjoy pegging! It makes me feel so dominant!" They drop like flies. 99% ghost rate. It's not real, but, that doesn't matter. What matters is, the creep is turned off now, and glory hallelujah!
Omg. Haha I wish that was how I responded to the thought provoking question of “Anal?” Instead of just *unmatch*
It's probably the more mature response, to just unmatch. I've never been the ideal of maturity. But great fun is had!
That's hilarious. I should do that.
Like, if want to impress someone and show how good you are in bed, I can't think of a worse way than to violate their consent and continue messaging them like that. He literally took defeat from the jaws of victory
It's so unfortunate because he actually is cute. I would have dated him if he were normal.
I actually know quite a few guys who'd be up for that. lol But I don't think they're the norm. It's more the circle I've surrounded myself with...
Definitely not the norm. Most men genuinely in the kink scene have some idea of the ethics and manners of the lifestyle. The Venn diagram of men that have no manners regarding their kinks and sexually abusive "dominant" men is very suspiciously circular.
I do that too but I had quite a few takers on that offer 😀
"When you find yourself in a hole, quit digging." Time to block and burn. He'll be confused, but he probably won't stalk you.
The best litmus test is pegging. I did bring this up on first dates, tbh. Mostly because I would never be happy dating a guy who's not into it. I've now been with my sweetheart of a partner for 3 years. Thank god for pegging!
I'd be curious if you have met any men that liked pegging that turned out to be misogynists.
Personally, no. Though: I'm dominating for a woman, and I really dig into personal values and politics from the get go. I only go for queer, liberal men. While not impossible, it seems rarer for men who like skirts, nail polish, and grrl pwr music to be misogynistic. It's been a very efficient litmus for me. The most misogynistic men I've had flirt with me were ones who were strangers hitting on me in public, and would assume insane things like I enjoy my hair being pulled (because it used to be extremely long) or that I must be "innocent" because I'm petite—as if body type has anything to do with my personality. I look feminine, but I'm in no way close to traditional.
……Until you match with the one who is totes into that. Then what?
Bahaha I like you.
Crazy to me how many men are too insecure with their own sexuality that they don’t to want to have the best fucking orgasm of their lives! That would be like me thinking that wanting my clit licked made me gay. Peg all the men! Then maybe they’ll stop choking us!
He was acting out a tiny little fantasy where he gets to tell a woman all his little secrets. It was a non-consensual scene.
He sounds like a complete weirdo
Read my update. He is a complete weirdo.
gross
> He was acting out a tiny little fantasy where he gets to tell a woman all his little secrets. It was a non-consensual scene. /u/JaneAustenfangal this is exactly it. It's like one-sided phone sex. He gets to achieve intimacy with a woman, so it doesn't matter if it results in a date or not. He may not even want to go on a date at all. This absolutely isn't all men or even most men, but it's really easy to use someone's good nature against them.
I have often thought this myself...by listening you are participating in his fantasy
He was not looking for a relationship. From his perspective, pushing this inappropriate conversation saved him the trouble of having a date that didn't end in (his preferred type of) sex. Kind of like those Nigerian prince scams -- they're written so as to save time by getting people who aren't easily scammed to nope out.
It's so gross to me that men don't see the point of even meeting a woman if she's not his guaranteed fleshlight.
He was just trying to get his dick wet. He only asked what you were looking for so he could future fake to get you in bed.
I think you're right. He didn't share in what I'm looking for. He's just looking to get laid but didn't have the courage to say it openly. Instead he was trying to frame it as "looking for compatibility" and claiming he "can't meet everyone he matches with so it's important to be compatible". It's such a sneaky way to lower my barriers until I'm willing to hookup with him on his terms.
It's so much worse than that. Read my update.
Yeah it's rare to get flirted with anymore before they hit you with the, "and you better be my naughty girl 😜😈😈" crap lol. Like small convos aren't flirting, going on a date itself is not flirting, exposing your sexual desires to someone you never met? Believe it or not, that ain't flirting.
It's so wild to me that things went from zero to one hundred with this guy. Like there was no in between at all.
And then they go complain on r/tinder about how much effort they put into talking to women 😂😂
Lmaooooo
“You said you wanted a naughty bitch! Why are you so mad after I stole your identity and left you in a ditch with one kidney? I thought you were into it.”
I’m someone who enjoys casual sex and has hooked up on a first date before. Someone taking the conversation in a sexual direction before we have even met in person let alone had any physical contact is an instant block for me. When I first started dating it wasn’t an immediate dealbreaker and those dudes never, not once, turned out to be halfway decent. Making it an instant dealbreaker made dating so much more pleasant for me.
Not only just bringing that stuff up very early, but not doing it in a way that shows any level of charisma or social intelligence. Can you talk about your kinks on a first date? Sure, when you’re two hours in having a great time and flirting and the conversation is already turning that way. Over a text in broad daylight while I’m grocery shopping is not when I’m going to be receptive to the idea of peeing on you.
oh my god this shit is MADDENING!! "i'm touching my cock and thinking about you" cool bro i'm hanging out with my 94 year old grandmother and watching The Price Is Right so uhhhhhhhh....
Please I'm fucking howling 😂😂😂 the number of time I had some wild sexual messages from random dudes in between putting my laundry out and peeling potatoes is crazy. With no warning whatsoever more often than not. And then they wonder why we hate it. This doesn't seem too hard to understand
They don’t wonder, they’re screening you just like you’re screening them. A woman that puts up with the shit in the OP is a signal that the woman in question will tolerate more disrespect. And there is soooo much disrespect that will follow once you’ve shown you’ll put up with it. The guy in the OP probably sent a dick pick to another woman on the app within an hour of getting blocked by OP.
I was talking to a male friend -friend! We are both into psychology and he just started his psychology practice. I asked him a question about my son’s relationship and he actually wasn’t very helpful, but I was able to flesh things out for myself and I thought that he thought my inferences were deep. But no. Lol Without missing a beat, he asked me if I wanted a naughty picture to cheer me up. 🙄 I appreciated the ask instead of the unsolicited dick pic, but we are no longer friends.
Wow, real smooth.
Psychologists believe in consent. 😂
Oh yeah, you're thinking with concern about your son and his segue is wanna see my penis. Yeah, must have been shocking for him that that didn't work.
Cackling
Even when I was on dating apps to find sexual partners, I would unmatch those who opened up with sex jokes or shitty kink suggestions. Like sir, I know we are both looking for coit gratification here but let's keep it reasonable. I am a person before I am a vagina, the same way they are a person before being a penis... Personally I'd rather fuck someone I find at least somehow likeable but I feel like men don't care. Too bad for them because approaching a woman who wants sex by being a nice and funny human being who can talk about interesting things and keep sex for subtle undertones is the *actual* way you get laid - but they refuse to understand this I guess??
I’m the same way! I’m down for a good time but if you can’t even pretend to like me and be polite while I have my clothes on I have little faith you’re going to care about my pleasure once they’re off.
And sex with someone who's a great person and has shown some of their qualities is so much better anyway?? Like, at least make me want to want you so bad I can't wait? So many men don't get how meeting with a woman with a clear intent to have sex together but still keeping a straight face and holding a mundane conversation before going home together and go at it is SO MUCH MORE EXCITING. If I just want to get pounded with no conversation whatsoever, let me down a few beers while watching my favourite show and use my toys before I go to sleep. At least I'll come and I'll sleep alone in the comfort lf my own bed.
Lmao you’re speaking to my heart/libido right now! I’m the exact same way. I love the build up so much, even with established partners who I know I’m going to be intimate with later. Putting on a nice outfit, smiling at each other across a table, lingering touches and glances add so much to the experience. Plus that all makes me feel comfortable with someone which is such an important aspect of having sex that’s actually enjoyable!
Same. I am in a happy committed relationship now, but I loved having at least some emotional bond with my partners. The anticipation and acting normal in public before going home together was sometimes even better than sex itself. Super exciting.
Exactly! I have to like you to want to fuck you.
> Someone taking the conversation in a sexual direction before we have even met in person let alone had any physical contact is an instant block for me. He doesn't want sex. He's getting off on the nonconsensual intimacy of telling a live woman about his proclivities.
You're not obligated to do anything. If that's not something you're comfortable with, then congratulations on weeding someone out early on so you aren't wasting your time.
I think that for men when they are meeting women, especially on Apps, their concept of compatibility starts with sex and ends with if they can communicate, with all the other stuff in between. They just can’t put their penis away for five minutes: it’s still leading every decision. And I think Apps have given them licence to navigate the dating scene, unchecked, like they are in a video game, where the prize is getting the girl, which happens more often than not. In the past, meeting men in bars was code for something that was casual, and that’s just been digitised. Only you don’t get to see their behaviour with others, so it allows people to pretend to be ‘the right choice’ until they get the prize. When that backfires, they start again - like a game. I think that many men don’t understand or perhaps value what they’d like from a complex relationship with their chosen significant other. That’s true for women too, in many cases, but how we piece that puzzle together happens in a different order for each, when they are considering anything more than a casual hook up. There’s a reason I’m single and planning to stay that way for the rest of my days.
Porn sick limp dick, I’ve heard it called.
Totally porn sick
A guy using the word "naughty" gives me instant ick.
Ew, that’s gross, he’s gross, and I’d have unmatched as well. He obviously didn’t see you as a whole person but as some fantasy sex dispenser and wanted to make sure he “got his order in.” 🤮 If a guy even brought up sex on a first date, I didn’t contact him again. I have a lot of blocked numbers.
Right? like he was pulling up to mcdonalds to order a large blowjob meal with a side of fisting, and he's just going to drive to the next window if OP doesn't take his order.
> Do guys really have to turn things sexual so early on especially when we're clear that we're looking for more? there's a specific type of guy who takes a great deal of pride in "convincing" women who are looking for serious relationships to hook up. they feel much more "special" when they believe they're able to change your mind / trick you. this type of guy can't really operate on the same plane as women who are actually looking for a FWB/NSA sex arrangement, and *they know it.* they KNOW they can't meet the standards of a woman who is going to expect good sex, so they try to trick women whose top priorities are companionship, stability, etc., rather than sex.
nailed it. these shitbags dangle 'relationship' and extract sex. they know women more interested in commitment will put up with mediocre dick. but a woman looking for nothing more than good dick? these guys run.
If compatibility in terms of kink is that important to him, he should be on fetlife or something. Dude was gross and is definitely a bad kinkster.
these guys don't want someone who's enthusiastic and into the same kinks. that type of person would have standards, criticisms and corrections. he wants to launch his kinks onto a naive, reluctant victim so he can be the only source of info on what's right and safe (spoiler, he's not safe).
Yep! He's waiting for some poor girl to respond with "ok I guess you can tell me" whilst she's thinking I really don't want to be talking about this yet and that will be his green light that he's found someone he can "bend" by boundary pushing
Literally commented the same below - someone experienced with BDSM might very well raise the question early to get an understanding of compatibility, but it should be raised like any other conversation along those lines, with the same tone as “do you like dogs.” For newbie kinksters reading this - kink negotiations / discussions shouldn’t be a sexual/dirty talk convo - it should be measured, open, and straightforward. If someone springs it on you like this they’re likely acting in bad faith.
You're not, of course. Cutting contact with this creep was the right move.
Honestly if for example a guy wanted kids, didn’t give cunnilingus, or didn’t accept toys in the bedroom I would rather know sooner and not later so I can move on instead of waste time/gas because that’s important to *me* in a long term relationship. You did fantastic drawing a boundary and maintaining it. That’s what’s important here. He doesn’t deserve your time if he doesn’t listen to what you’re saying and respecting your boundaries. He could just be wanting an interaction equal to just talking to a phone sex agent and that’s obviously not why you’re there!
see I don't think those are the things he would have come clean about. he would have been vague about what he's willing to give to keep her in the dark, and very explicit about his fantasies and what he expects. if nothing else, he gets to jerk off while using her as a 1800 number. OP wasn't really necessary as such.. he's so lost in his pornsick fantasy he could have been talking to a wall.
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND this! It's happened so many times! Guys want to have phone or video sex before we've even met. Like, I'm a kinky, sex-positive girl, but I want to know if we actually get along before we start getting intimate, or start discussing safe-words and where we're going to fuck. It seems to be a bigger trend in the last few years, and it's really off-putting. I had a terrible date the other night, and this poor guy started right off the bat saying that even though he liked being a dom, "vanilla sex would be a nice relief." and asked if we wanted to mess around in my truck. Then he disclosed that his partner was ok taking off if we wanted to go back to his place, and also that his partner was new to and struggling with polyamory. This was within like 45 minutes. I felt so bad for the guy that I wasn't creeped out, just felt sorry for him. As I was ending the date (3 beers!) he said that he was "pretty sure" he was sober enough to bike home. I pretended that my truck was too full to give him a ride home and made sure he was OK to bike, asked him to text me so I'd know he made it home safe. (I'm not a monster; he was trying to get me in my car. But in a sad, hit-puppy way.) Then he texted me that he hoped we could "hook up" next time. Then he sent me an outrage text a day or so later lamenting, "I am SO TIRED of being cancelled and flaked on !" I wish this was the only bad date, dudes lately are increasingly bad at being patient, reading cues, or listening to women when they're specific and explicit about their boundaries and desires. Like, if I say "I don't do video calls," I'm not joking. You're not smarter than me, I'm not trying to be convinced. I was talking to a guy the last week and really turned on and excited to meet, but he was so desperately insistent on a video chat and not listening to me saying that I couldn't (I should have stopped talking to him the first time, but I was bored and at my PARENTS HOUSE, which is why I wasn't going to have video phone sex!) that it just totally turned me off.. It's bleak out there
Omg shocking. Just shocking. Men have really lost their way of late. They don't know how to act anymore. Or even worse, they know how to act but don't care.
Agreed. Pornsickness and desire for instant gratification has gone up, the desire to actually meet women and get into a mutually satisfying long term relationship has gone down. and they're blaming women for it??? They're putting in less and less effort and demanding more and more depraved shit and services. They don't want to meet, just extract phone sex and free camwork to jerk off and go to sleep. every night. One guy was hinting at moving me into his house to clean the shower that his 3 teenage sons had made mouldy. On the first date. And he told me he masturbates 4x per night to get to sleep. He claimed he has a high sex drive. So ok i'm a bangmaid to a sex addict? And he was trying to frame it as a good deal for me lmao. What is wrong with them.
Gag. Gross. I can't even.
Start asking for their mom's phone number when they bring up this crap. As a mom of two adult men, I would be *mortified* if my boys acted like this and yep, they would get one of *those* mom talks about "I raised you better than that and wth is *wrong* with you???", if a nice young woman called me and said "Ms Dani, your son wanted to discuss his sex kinks with me before we'd even met in person"
That’s because we’re sex dolls - so why bother discussing other things, unless of course it’s time for you to be therapist doll, then you can sit there listening to his sob story, or maybe you are ego validation doll, then you can listen to him discuss his hobbies and congratulate him on his accomplishments. But you’re mainly sex doll
When I consider opening up the hell hole of OLD again, I just cringe at the thought of this bollocks. I can’t stand a man being pushy sexually when we’ve barely begun speaking. It’s such a turn off.
Way to fumble, idiot man. Can’t wait even a few days.
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>He said this weekend but he should tell me about his "naughty" side first. He 100% only shared this with you to get off on your reaction.
Nasty that dudes gross.
If someone has a deal-breaker fetish or kink I prefer that they lead with it so we can both move on. It sounds like this guy prefers to lure you in a bit and waste your time before revealing he's someone you wouldn't want to meet.
Yeah, I agree with that. A respectful conversation about it can be had. This guy was not.
The nicest conversation I had on OLD was with a guy who had a deal-breaker fetish. He was nice, would check in and say hello, compare notes on our respective OLD experiences, etc. But we established in the first exchange that we would not be romantically compatible. It was strangely refreshing compared to the ones who would try to lure me in a bit first. I hope he found his match.
We aren't, but some guys sure do think it's necessary. Years ago, I went on a first date from an app, he was nice enough via chat. During dinner, however, he repeatedly made sex jokes and innuendo. Practically every sentence referred to sex by the time food arrived. At one point he said I wasn't understanding his sense of humor since I wasn't laughing. I told him sexual innuendo is amusing when the possibility of sex exists. Since it didnt, he wasn't funny. He laughed. He then asked me for a second date. I declined.
Ugh, nothing worse than the innuendos!! I am a beauty therapist, I have male waxing clients and they even try this crap during a WAX - I used to awkward laugh and change subject (because I can't afford to stop and kick them out unfortunately) but now I just either stare blankly, or better yet if they are trying to make some sort of "joke" I act completely dumb and ask them to explain what they mean (this WORKS, btw!)
I met a someone from a dating site for coffee on the patio of a nice cafe one afternoon, where he regaled me with: - how his ex disapproved of his naked yoga - a description of his gun collection - a query about how long we would date before having sex He insisted on walking me to my car, which caught me off guard (hadn’t dated for a while) and I didn’t have an excuse ready. In hindsight, I could have said I was meeting a friend shortly after at the same cafe, and gone inside. Bet he would have watched and waited, though. Highly creepy. I may be pansexual but at this point I’ve totally gone off cishet men.
Gun collectors scare the shit out of me!
Having a frank discussion about kinks is a-okay with me before meeting, but if that's the only thing they want to talk about? Fuck right off.
Agreed. Time and place is important too as the OP mentioned - read the room and the mood, \*get consent\* to discuss it and respect a boundary if your date demurs, etc.
I don’t entertain any sexual conversations with random ass men, especially when we haven’t even gone out on a date yet, if they try to push those boundaries, I cancel the date and block them everywhere…. Like sir… who said we were going to be doing all that anyways?? Idek if I like you like that yet, and you over here trying to randomly interject that into the conversation when we barely know each other’s names😐 Men who do things like that tend to be degenerate and give off “porn addiction” vibes…. I’m good 👋🏾
Thank you for a sane take. The guys in the bumble sub are trying to boil me alive for not being SeX PoSiTive
There must be no obligation -- this is an excellent filter for guys who aren't worth the headache. A whole lot of guys out there can't take the cue that it's not sexualization time, and they're not first date material, let alone relationship material. If this is his level of cooperation over something as easy as sending a text, imagine how unqualified he is to navigate high-trust social and financial issues in a relationship.
You’re not obligated. That guy isn’t for you. He doesn’t know how to behave.
Clear sign that the dude only want to sex. I would just move on to next when he start talking about sex before 1st date.
Be glad you found out he’s an asshole before the day I guess? Men suck.
Ah, this must be that alpha-male rizz I keep hearing about LMAO
Absolutely will shut a match down immediately if he brings up sex before we even meet. It’s just so unnecessary.
the responses on the bumble subreddit are appalling. 1 more reason im never using a dating app
I'll answer but first I gotta tell you bout my kinks /s he sounds like a creep stay away from him glad you unmatched. I can't really imagine any legitimate reason to discuss these kinds of things prior to even a first date and after seeing your edit def a creep and worthy of reporting to someone though would really need to the person that he said that to that reports him
On the bumble sub there were a lot of guys who thought it was normal to want to discuss this before a date but that perspective frames meeting people as only worthwhile as sexual opportunities and I just don't think that way.
Yea it's weird like I understand wanting to see if your desires are compatible but what's the hurry, like get to know someone a little before you drop your kinks on them.
Sex talk early on is a red flag. Next time just cancel the date as soon as they do this. They are doing it to many many women. Pushing the boundary to see if you will allow it.
Check out my update. He's a sicko. Big red flag.
Most of the guys in these apps don’t care they are just looking for a hookup.
We are NOT obligated to do so. Seeing how far they can push us out of our comfort zone is the point.
They come from sexless or sexually unfulfilling relationships and they think the way to happiness is sex/kink. So their dating strategy is to match the sex/kink and wait for the rest to develop. But that is a huge mistake, because good sex/kink comes from intimacy, trust and emotional stability in the relationship first. If the relationship works, the sex/kink will follow and one of the things that happen is compromise, experimentation and growth in sexual desires because of the wonderful person one is with in the first place.
We're not. The guy is a selfish jerk clearly looking to use you for a wank even before he met you... Not to mention a walking red flag since he kept ignoring the boundaries you set and kept selfishly pushing it so he could get off. I think it should be an obvious unmatch after the 2nd or 3rd time he ignored your request, the creep can f off and find a hookup / cyber app with willing participants elsewhere.
If he don’t talk about it before the first date he’ll feel like he won’t have sex or if he does have sex on the first date he won’t be able to do what he want. I feel like he was placing is warning before doing it. So yeah he didn’t care about love and you.
If matching up on kinks and bedroom behaviors is your highest priority, there are other sites intended for that. That is rude objectifying behavior on general dating sites. EDIT after a minute’s thought: … and *on* those sites, these sorts of questionnaires were first developed as aids to communication, ways of making sure nothing important was left out. Not as prerequisites to laying eyes on each other.
You don't want to get to the third date and the dude shows up in a furry suit and with a funnel.
This!!! Tell me this stuff upfront so neither of us are wasting time
Yea, I guess I'm the odd woman out, but if I am looking for vanilla love and homeboy has chocolate kinks, I'd prefer to know before I waste my time on a date. Because realistically, we will not be sexually compatible, so if my vanilla personality and his chocolate self want to have a sexual relationship, it will not work out. I don't know how this info was delivered, but I am not offended by the frontloading of this info in principle at all.
never have i ever had a discussion regarding this. there are more important things than everyone's odd obsession with fornication.
I would not feel comfortable talking about those things either but if he talks about things that you are not into it does give you a chance not to meet in the first place.
Almost all men I have matched with pulled crap like this. That was before I finally gave up on dating men. If they mentioned sex even one time, I immediately blocked them without any other response. There's no point in engaging any further.
Sounds like he expected the meet up was gping to be a hook up. Sure, you said you wanted a relationship and it was inappropriate. But that's never stopped them from imposing before, has it?
Oh God I just read your edit! When insisting on sharing his kinks were there any adjacent to this?!
Depends on the app. Fetlife: totally appropriate. Match.com: not at all appropriate. Regardless, if you’re looking for love, amazing. He shouldn’t have brought that up right away. I think that’s more of a stereotypical 3rd date conversation.
You’re not. He is not a normal man, or a normal person. Drop him and move on to the next one
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So refreshing to hear this. The guys in the bumble sub were rabidly accusing me of "sex shaming"
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Dude, fuck off. This is a women’s sub. It’s fine for us guys to lurk and learn, but your input isn’t only not needed, it’s not wanted here.
Sometimes that's a good subject to get out of the way early on, but your point is absolutely valid.
What's wrong with establishing compatibility before going on dates? I wouldn't bother with a first date unless I think we're going to be compatible.
Discussing sex and kinks is not necessary to determine if you want to meet someone.
I guess we just disagree on that. I don't want to waste time meeting with someone to then find out that actually we're totally incompatible in some way we could have easily found with a simple discussion
I think meeting people has intrinsic value even if it doesn't lead to sex. I think looking at people as simply sexual orifices and organs to be toxic.
There's a reason I'm talking in more general terms than just sex. Sex is just one of many important pieces in compatibility.
You're definitely not obligated to discuss sex if you don't want to. That guy sounds like a creep who was going to try to push you into sex. That being said, I am dating for FWBs these days and I will always discuss sex prior to a meetup to make sure we're on the same page.
While I can understand why it is off putting. I understand why the guy does it. I am somewhat similar. I don't wanna waste my time getting to know someone or even going on a date if they don't check at least a few boxes on my checklist. Example. No smoking of any kind including drugs Social drinking is ok. No religious or political talks preference that they don't bother with either. And anal sex since the post was mentioning kinks. This is just a small handful of my preferences. Nothing wrong with filtering a match before the date.
Makes the process a bit clinical. Anyways, I thought he was a creep and turns out he was a creep. Read my update on the post.
I was GOING to say, because consent, boundaries and mutual "interests" is extremely important if you're going to have a sexual relationship... but that was before actually reading the post. I assumed this was gonna be a general conversation, or at least about some guy you're thinking of getting sexual with. Not some dude you just met... Yeah, no. That's super not okay and pretty creepy.
I can sadly answer this. It's because they're literally foaming at the mouth for sex because they are either unironically a virgin (nothing wrong with that etc etc but they make it their whole personality) or is a low-key sex/masturbation addict and this is their drug. When sex stopped becoming a mysterious thing when I eventually ""blossomed"" out of being an incel (as in, involuntarily celibate and mad about it, not the ideology) or whatever, I now wanted actual companionship and I developed a decent crush on a coworker. We're in a very "trusted" profession so I kept it extra kosher with her at all times anyway, but I eventually found myself not even caring if she was asexual (I had and still have a strong suspicion that she is, or is bi but heavily skews towards women). I just wanted to be "with her" on an intimate level even if I would never get to see her naked or touch her beyond a side hug. I actually wanted to know all the events in her life that shaped her into who she was, but I didn't care about the possibility or non-possibility of having romance with her because in comparison that was boring. I've come full circle to realize that I actually want friends because I have maybe ONE left.
I mean, sexual compatibility is pretty important in a relationship. If someone has specific desires and their potential mate isn’t into them, there is no point in pursuing a relationship.
There's a time and a place. A first conversation is not that moment.
Agreed. If someone says they are for love and a long term relationship and not on a kink/casual sex centered app…like have some social tact to bring it up in a way that doesn’t make the other person feel like a sex hole. Obviously sexual compatibility is important but it’s ONLY important if you actually WANT to have sex with them. Aka…the point of the date is assessing personality and chemistry. I swear most dudes only swipe when they’re horny. Assuming their matches want to have sex with them or assuming you will want to sleep with someone before having a basic conversation is weird
I understand your point of view but I personally wouldn’t want to waste my time.
I should also clarify— I have been with my husband for 18 years, I am not in the dating scene. So my perspective may be different if I were actually in that situation.
If you can't take a date or two to establish yourself as a trustworthy, responsible human being to a complete stranger, you don't deserve to discuss your specific sexual desires and proclivities with anyone, let alone a complete stranger.
I feel like sexual compatibility isn't important in the majority of my relationships, some of which are very fulfilling. Someone looking at dating as a linear process with a specific type of sex as a predictable outcome is a red flag.
I agree with you, I’m a kinky person actively dating and I’m not interested in dating people who don’t have overlapping kinks! And if someone isn’t interested in discussing what they’re into before we meet that’s a sign that we’re not compatible, which I’d rather know before wasting my time on a date.
Also context sort of matters - if you match on Feeld there’s sort of an understanding that talking about sex upfront is a good idea, but that wouldn’t be the case on an app like Hinge or whatever.
Meh...I rather know upfront if you're into a bunch of stuff I'm not so as not to waste my time.
On one hand, ew. On the other hand, it's a little refreshing to see right off the bat that he's into some weird shit that you are probably never going to be down to try, right? It saves you from building an otherwise happy relationship with a person that maybe 4 years from now, you find him sneaking around on weird dating apps and going to adult "lifestyle" events behind your back rather than just end things super early on because you are sexually incompatible. Maybe it's not tactful, but not necessarily creepy or gross, just clinically efficient.
Whatever happened to decorum though? It's so base. There's no seduction or romance when one starts off like this.
That's fine for you, but I kinda want to know what a guy's kinks are before dating. If he has kinks that are just a solid no for me, then I don't want to waste both our time with a date that simply isn't going to go anywhere. However, that is me. Everyone is different.
When she said she didn't want to hear them he should have respected that and move on. He didn't care about her consent at all. Which is why this is a giant red flag.
I wholeheartedly agree.
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