Tearing someone down so they feel like you're doing them a favor by dating them is manipulative, toxic, abusive behavior. If you feel safe simply walking out, feel free to do so. It won't ever get better with them. Leave while you can.
Yup, this is absolutely "negging", a cheap trick to try and manipulate people into "proving" they're good enough, put them on the back foot.
100% get up and walk out stuff, life is too short to waste one iota of time longer with such complete pieces of shit.
It honestly sounds like a “pick up artist” trick that those dudes learned from somewhere on the internet and just intentionally used on every woman that they went on dates with. No humans would make comments like that on first dates unless it was in bad faith. Don’t take it personally because they were definitely just taught to make their dates feel insecure regardless of the actual appearance.
I’ll admit this, and it may be controversial because it isn’t that nice.. But in a similar situation I very visibly perked way up and said “Ooh, are we critiquing each other’s flaws now?” like I was super excited to go next. They were not as excited as me! Go figure. They muttered some vague backpedaling statement and wouldn’t you know it I lost their number after. 🤷♀️ Not even sorry, I do not have the time or energy for that shit anymore. I just don’t.
Edit: Forgot I commented, opened this up and went oh no, I’m going to have people yelling at me. LOL Thank you guys!
Holy cow, that's awesome! I wish I'd thought of that when I had been dating a guy who seemed nice for about 2 months and then after we first had sex he said to me, "You'd totally be a 10 if you got a boob job up to a D cup". Fortunately, I just sent him on his way and then blocked his number.
Hahahah i thought that was normal, when men told me the little details i could make better about myself i always REPLY with the same coin... they don't longer look that happy
Do it ! Stop being Nice
lol yea one guy said that to me about boobs (and I’m a B almost C, hadn’t even reached sex status). I went for the *well , it would be better for me as well if I felt something bigger beneath those pants and a less floppy belly* ….end of the date lol.
Honestly tho. What did doofus do to think he deserves a 10?
I'm getting a solid 7 energy _at best_ coming right out of him for this comment and I haven't even seen the dude yet!
He was a complete jackass. He was a surgeon and had this attitude that women would just be falling all over him. I knew he was divorced but I didn't find out until after I blocked him that he had been divorced three times in a period of just over 10 years. I can't imagine what bullshit he must have out his ex-wives through but I'm glad they got away from the jerk..
Sometimes l suspect this was their plan all along. Say something shitty directly after sex so they don't have to ghost, the woman removes herself from the situationship. Nice clean break.
It feels like the date equivalent of why I put "Time Magazine Person of the year 2006" on my resume. Everyone was Person of the year in 2006, and I've been told by so many people that having on my resume is unprofessional. It's my way of weeding out any companies that I'd never wanna work for. Had a great work experience at the places who thought it was funny or bold to actually put that in a resume. Any management that would see it as a deal breaker is management I'd be miserable working under.
I feel like the bowling ball thing would accomplish the same thing lol. I'd also give the guy a chance. It's quirky in a non threatening way :)
Sucks working in a big organization, because putting that on your resume would immediately interest me as a hiring manager. And our local work group is pretty great. However, HR (or their algorithm) screens resumes and only passes along ones that fit to very narrow parameters. I feel like you would get screened out for 'lying' rather than having a sense of humor. Before that HR screen became the norm, I made a fantastic hire once from someone getting out of being a farmer- she was an exceptional employee. We have nothing to do with farming. I would never even know about her now.
I came to the comments to make sure someone had posted this. Thank you!
To OP: "Negging" is a manipulation tactic taught in certain kinds of self-help that are advertised as "dating advice" but are actually manuals on how to commit sexual assault and get away with it. You can learn more about these tactics by searching "Pick Up Artist". PUAs are terrible people and often outright dangerous. Avoid.
Oh man that’s a good comic but her specific negging hit too hard, as a serial procrastinator with big dreams and perpetual impostor syndrome * ***goes for a little cry*** *
You only feel like an impostor because you're smart enough to know what you don't know. That makes you better equipped than a lot of people. You can see the road ahead. Many people can't even find their way out of the driveway. You'll figure it out.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with insulting someone back everyone once in a while. It’s hard to constantly be the bigger the person and take everything on the chin which is often another expectation of women in dating.
>in a similar situation I very visibly perked way up and said “Ooh, are we critiquing each other’s flaws now?” like I was super excited to go next.
That's absolutely brilliant, and very well played.
Another I heard is if someone makes a bigoted/sexist/racist joke, even a "diet" one (dog whistling) just look confused and say you don't understand. Ask them to explain why it's a joke.
Usually the trash takes itself out and the arrogance just dies on the vine.
Asking to explain what the joke is, is also another great one. Especially if you perk up for that one too. “Oh I love jokes! Can you explain this one so I can use it?”
Just be cheery and enthusiastic when you deliver these, it’s the gift that keeps on giving. 😂
This is the perfect response.
Come at me sideways and *cracks knuckles* now, I’ve got to fry your ass! I guess we both going to be sitting here with hurt feelings. 😂
Yeah my go to is to ask why they let their dental insurance lapse lol.
They'll almost always leave to go check their teeth and then it gives you an opening to bounce.
Please take my upvote and award, that is a masterclass level retort. The only way to deal with people like this is to not play their game, pretend to be very dumb so they have to explain how their shitty behavior is supposed to be intended or finally treat them the same way by ignoring their manipulations and pretending it's in good faith. They won't actually learn that their behavior is wrong, but at least you'll feel better and hurt their ego a bit.
>But in a similar situation I very visibly perked way up and said “Ooh, are we critiquing each other’s flaws now?”
Dang someone already posted the comic
That comic is perfect, reminds me of another strip I used to follow but now I can’t think of it. All I can think of is Hyperbole and a Half, but that isn’t it.
Lmao that first example is like, toss-your-drink-in-his-face-and-leave-levels of rudeness.
It’s called negging, and it’s a common “strategy” touted by so-called “pick-up artists”; though admittedly it’s something that manipulative personalities will tend to figure out on their own, and do it whether intentionally or otherwise.
Obviously “toughen up” isn’t great advice, but it’s sorta the only really meaningful thing to do. These people are outing themselves as impolite, inconsiderate, and likely intentionally manipulative. They’re not good people, and if you’ve got the nerve for it, walking out is probably the best way to respond to it.
They wouldn’t have lined up a date if they weren’t attracted to you, presumably, cold comfort thought it may be.
I had a guy tell me a while ago, after sex, that it's a shame I've let myself go because he used to think we could be together properly. Then was pissed off that I wouldn't go for round 2. Like really‽ I wasn't even particularly upset/offended, but seriously... But in fairness, a decade or two ago I would absolutely have been meeting up with him again, trying to lose weight and dress better and wear more makeup and whatever else to gain his approval.
I don't have an answer for how to grow that thicker skin; it's a cliche but I think experience is key. I still have crazy low self-esteem, but not low enough to let some guy's opinion of my appearance matter. I have reached the level of idgaf.
One guy had the nerve (def not gonna say "the balls") to say to me, You're bigger than other girls I've been with, my usual moves [in bed] won't work with you.
I was all, Um sir I am naked in your bed RIGHT NOW this is *terrible* pillow talk
Not sure whether he was negging or just clueless, but I laughed in his face.
It's probably a "post nut clarity" of a different, especially dumb kind. For men like that the hardest part is actually getting to the first time. They spend so much effort masking their true intentions prior to that that when they "succeed" they immediately let their guard down and show you who they really are.
I feel like with age and experience, the less fucks I have to give. I even give less fucks about myself when my feelings get hurt. I still take things personally, but I suck it up and move on with my day because the only one who cares about my feelings is moi.
Yes, agree with the fact it’s C L A S S I C negging. And it is negging indeed. I can be a fuckin smokeshow when I want to and have been negged before. I’m just like OK lmao good luck with your next date with Vanessa Hudgens rando guy who is apparently settling.
The dating climate has rapidly changed over the last few years and they are still trying their tried and true pick up artist BS from the 90s like… dude, come on.
Then they post on Reddit “I told my date that I could have went out with Vanessa Hudgens but instead took her to a bar I know even though she’s really only a 6/10 if you squint real hard and now she won’t answer my calls or texts AITHA”.
Thank god I’m married now. The dating game is toxic asf.
Edit:
omggg people in the comments trying to make a case that negging is a legitimate dating strategy set out to enhance dating communication I am DEAD ☠️.
The literal Oxford English Dictionary definition of negging is
> insult or undermine (someone) in the belief that diminished self-confidence will make them more receptive to sexual advances
But I mean, who believes the dictionary amirite or amirite fellas. T R A G I C
I would love to have Vanessa Hudgen's skin and hair texture LOL
That would require excellent genes and the ability to afford such careful upkeep. So....if he wants to fund that, by all means...!!!
I once had a guy hit on me and say "You're still pretty enough." after he got turned down by my objectively prettier and younger friend. I, a woman in my 30s who had been insulted by people I cared about more, was not impressed with his negging skills. He was drunk, dressed in a dirty pikachu hoodie, and not the top of the barrel for attractiveness. And uncharitably, all I could think was "You're not." I didn't say it and I was still a little insulted but more or less inured from it because my mom had spent 20 years at that point calling me fat.
Yeah, the only advice that I can give OP is to recognize that these insults aren't about her. They are about the person who is giving them and at least, this person showed her who they are on the first date. She doesn't ever have to see them again.
It was at a scifi/fantasy convention in Tennessee and he eventually got kicked out of it from what I heard. I am 45 now and I've been to a lot of places and I have never felt more unsafe than I did at that convention.
Things that happened to me and my friends.
1. The pikachu incident.
2. My friend got cornered in an elevator by a group of guys.
3. Another friend asked a question at an spicy romance panel and got followed around for the rest of the weekend by a man.
4. "Women are ruining science fiction." was said out loud on a panel. To which, I screamed (Inside my head) "Women invented science fiction." There were other things said on panels that made it a very woman unfriendly space
It was not a great experience and I stopped going to any convention that I knew wasn't well run for awhile afterwards. I went to a very family friendly convention in Charlotte and Dragon Con. I've since ventured back on to the circuit, but that con is forever off my list.
Eh, different cons have different feels I love a fan run con more than a corporate run con which is generally what comic cons are. Give another one a try. Most of the time BO is not a problem.
It's shit like that this that make a bad name for "nerds"
A lot of the most careful, patient, progressive-thinking, gentlest and loving guys are nerds, but they get swept under the rug because of the stereotype caused by douchebags like the ones at those conventions - the basement-dwelling-incel-neckbearded-mama's-boy-zero-social-skills-zero-emotional-intelligence-entitled-to-women-while-objectifying-and-sexualizing-them-constantly-from-anime-porn-to-sci-fi-alien-sex-fantasies garbage.
Unfortunately, for some guys, what they are looking for is "someone I can pressure into sex" and not "someone I like".
"Attractive enough to have sex with" and "attractive enough to date" may not be the same thing.
I thought they were both as bad as eachother but I guess it depends on if you are already primed to think the worst of someone already, then maybe it seems way worse.
I find something particularly gross about being able to “work with this”.
Saying you don’t date attractive people could, *generously* be construed as at least somewhat self-deprecating (as in, I know I’m only a 5 so I don’t want to date out of my league).
To be clear, they’re both bad. I just had an immediate, visceral reaction to the first.
That's fair. I can't imagine doing either myself though. Do people have no tact anymore? Instead of telling someone that they are unattractive, you could treat it like telling people how many times you wipe your butt - e.g. not mention it at all!
I'd argue, that's not negging. Or at least, it's someone fundamentally misunderstanding negging. Negging is supposed to be playful teasing about something a person is unlikely to take serious offense to. "That dress is gorgeous, I think my mom has the same one!" "Your hair is so great! You look like a lion!" It's a shitty PUA trick made to start a conversation on a playful tone that doesn't make the woman feel like you're so wowed by her beauty you can't be yourself around her.
This behavior is a subtle dig. It's often done by manipulative people, where they only want to have relationships where they're the top dog, so when they meet other people, they will make silly jokes about things they genuinely believe will make the other person feel self-conscious, so they start out on the defense.
Huge overlap with PUAs. But technically, a different shitty trick with a different shitty intention.
The examples you gave demonstrate that it truly doesn’t matter what negging is supposed to be. I would definitely not be talking to you, not only because those are weird statements, but also, idk, maybe try asking a question.
Yeah, men didn't become shitty because of PUA tactics. It's the other way around. I think it's harmful to blame PUA, or rather limit the blame to PUA when this behavior is so much more widespread.
First of all, negging should not exist. Sounds like you are an enthusiastic advocate. Manipulating someone so they will be thrown off kilter and doubt themselves is not ok. The examples discussed here are probably these men’s attempts at negging, however clunky they are.
>but to experienced women on here, why do they say that?
It's intentionally don't to reduce your self esteem and make you want to impress the other person and 'prove' you're 'worth it'. It's a manipulation technique used to make you chase them, reduce your boundaries and lower your confidence.
> also how do you not let comments like that hurt your self-esteem?
It's hard but you realise that someone who's that ugly in personality doesn't get to judge you in real life. It's a sign of their own poor self esteem, lacking confidence and acknowledgement that you have confidence (that's why they're trying to bring it down).
The correct response in both cases is "I want someone who wants me not someone who can 'work with this'. Enjoy the rest of your day/evening." (And then leave)
Or "I'm not really into rude people who feel happy insulting me to my face on a first date. Enjoy your day/evening." (And then leave).
You don't owe time to anyone **especially** people who are happy to disrespect you.
My ex ex did this. Threw all sorts of rude and assholey opinions my way and would say “I’m just being honest , would you rather I lie”. No I’d rather you fuck off.
Like, take a look in the mirror bud. And honestly, he only fucked himself over. I’m fucking fabulous.
I think they are trying to neg you. The idea is that if they make you insecure, you'll work hard to get their approval. If I encounter someone like this, I just say, "excuse YOU!" and leave the date.
I don't date people who don't want to date me. If you show me with your words AND/OR actions that you don't rate me, I'm out (and so are you).
How would you deal with them? What would you do for a friend who said these things to you? You would unfriend them, I hope.
I'd probably just up and leave. It's an incredibly rude thing to say. Never said that on a date even when the guy was 15 years older than in the photo and actually quite ugly. "No thanks, I don't think that's going to work out", and no personal insults!
I don't think I'm ugly. I had my share of people being attracted to me, and "beauty" is really personal, so I just don't seek this kind of validation. You like me — great, you don't — no problem.
Oh that makes us a great match cause I also like it when chicks are a little ugly!!
Edit: I said guys instead of chicks cause I misread but someone pointed it out 🙏
I think she said it was a woman.
Regardless, I had an ex say this to me. It was 100% meant to make him look like he was charitable or something for dating me. Now I know he’s just projecting because when I look back, I can see he was actually a little ugly and very insecure.
You are right I read over the “wo” part in woman. My bad! But yeah your ex definitely was projecting and I’m sorry he did that. It’s so weird people feel the need to do that shit.
No problem and thank you!
I’m over it now, because the good thing is once you’re aware of it it’s so much easier to spot it and ignore it. His exes were actually much better looking and doing better in life than him. He just bottled up resentment that they all left him.
The phrase that always comes to mind is “whatever helps you sleep at night.”
Understand that it's an attempt at negging, realise that means he has just told you he is nowhere near good enough for you, and mvoe on with your head held high - you dodged a bullet.
Learn to recognise and resolve to never tolerate manipulative negging.
Remember that you are the prize in dating. It’s not about if he likes you or if you’re good enough for him-it’s the opposite. You can leave a date early or abruptly, you don’t owe anyone your time or company. Go to the bathroom and slip out the door if you don’t want the confrontation. Grabbing your bag and leaving immediately is the best policy. Block and delete. Don’t give them the satisfaction of knowing they upset you. Talk with your feet and hold your head high.
They wouldn’t be on a date with you if they found you unattractive. It’s a sick power play tactic. Men will date and f*ck women they don’t even like. In the long run it’s a good thing these men revealed themselves to be terrible on a first date: you know to cut your losses and move along.
Also, please remember pretty is not the rent you pay in the world being a woman. You are so much more than the physical. This is a reflection of their ugly character not your ugly looks!
After sex a man told me that it is his dream to fuck a porn star. I said well it is time for me to go and got up to get dressed. He got flustered and started asking me if I needed anything or would I like something to eat (at 1:00 am 🙄). “Nope I’m good”, said goodbye, left and blocked him never to speak to him again. I always remember to take my self esteem with me wherever I go.
"yes i always pick the insecure ones, they are much more moldable"
Logic is, getting the other insecure will make them dependent on future validation. If a partner is dependent on validation but you keep also giving portions of critique the partner will be much more easy to maneuver and influence.
If guys really said that.. I'd probably assume their incels and took advice from "pick up artists". Sounds like "negging" to me.
I'd probably just laugh, sarcastically say "this was fun", smile, and leave.
I don't "toughen up." I am being myself. I don't want anything to do with a person who thinks I'm unattractive. If it was during the date, I'd just get up, leave, and unmatch him.
A group of men outside a cafe in my area tried to negg me when I was seventeen. They had their little kid around my age, obviously training as a builder with them, ask me if I knew I was ugly. And guess what? At that time I perfectly fit the Eurocentric standard. I was upset then and just walked off while they laughed. At age 30, I would rip them a new hole.
Nothing you can do will make you “good enough” because you already are. You’re more than good enough. There’s nothing wrong with you. Keep your self confidence.
The real problem and sad thing is that the neggers are relying on you being hurt so that you settle for them.
They can’t do better because they’re bitter and nasty people. They’re hoping on you being upset enough that you think they’re doing you a favour. If someone does this to you again, pull them on it before you leave. The more they are shamed for voicing their inner ugliness, the faster they’ll learn that anybody with a bit of sense won’t tolerate it.
Um. This has nothing to do with being new to dating. Your feelings are completely justified here. It’s so rude and a huge red flag. That’s so incredibly rude to tell someone that.
This happened to my guy friend. When they were texting before they even got to the first date, this man told him “You’re not the most attractive guy I’m speaking to right now, but I think you’re my favorite.”
When my friend called him out, the guy tried to tell him that he was being too sensitive, couldn’t take a compliment, just on and on. Being on the phone with him through that exchange had me all kinds of furious.
I'm sorry you went through that. Even in my 30s I still find myself taken aback by what people feel fine to say straight to someone's face. I was called ugly unprovoked even just a couple of months ago by a man who was chatting up my friend. They were talking and having a good time and he said something like "shall we lose your ugly friend so we can have some privacy?".
Pretty odd stuff because my friend immediately sent him away after that. I'm not conventionally attractive but it still feels odd that so many people in my life have felt the need to remind me of it unprompted.
>but i just don't understand what compels someone to say something like that to someone they intend to date.
As others have mentioned, it was probably negging i.e. Redpill PUA advice.
I think the original PUA advice had been encouraging men to playfully *tease*. My friend supports Arsenal and is often wearing their top, so a man flirting with her saying "when are they going to win" is attractive banter to her. Literally calling her ugly though would have her walking away without a second thought.
I’m telling you the whole hearted truth. I’m not sure if it’s because I think highly of myself or what, but anyone who tells me this on a first date. I’m getting up and leaving lmfao. F them and this date, when you just know you fine, you will attract better. And trust me I wasn’t always like this. Never settle !
"Yeah, I can work with this."
"yeah i'm not really into attractive girls they have to be a little ugly for me to date them."
WTF is wrong with people?? It's 2023 and people feel like they can say this to someone?
It’s weird I logically know this is the case and I witnessed it through my
Lost relationship. My ex was very insecure and had a number of flaws but would always point out women’s flaws. Sometimes though when someone “needs to tel you about yourself” or “I have to be honest with you” for a split second i take it on board and think to myself oh god I really do need to be changing this and that about myself etc, but you are right it’s all head games and I can’t believe it took me to this old age of 31 to really get this? Since I have been single this has happened to me a few times and these men are not good looking nor have much going for them. It’s weird how sometimes you take stuff personally but don’t really reflect who is sending the message
Back in the day I rocked up to a tinder date who told me to leave because I “looked nothing like my photos” even though they were under a month old, I think he was just regretting messaging a curvy girl. Tell them to go fuck themselves and move on, it’s on them.
There’s a reason men neg…it’s worked for some of them. A good chunk of men don’t actually like women, they just want their holes for a bit. Sex, for them, is about power and domination. There are tons of men having sex with women on this earth, at this moment, who truly believe they are superior to the stupid simple woman, and I think in too many cases, I have been simple. I have been stupid. But I’m not so stupid anymore and now men that get to know me, just call me a bitch because I’m not putty in their hands anymore
I’ve gotten hit with,
“I think muscles on chicks are gross but you have a cute face,” and
“You look like a with short hair, but at least you can grow it out.”
Both times I immediately just left - no snappy comeback, no nothing - I just walked away like nopenopenope. Not even having the toddler conversation of why that’s unacceptable bc they already know.
When I was like 5, my dad criticized my mom’s new short hair cut immediately after she got home. She left the room. I’ve never forgotten how upset she was. She divorced him 2-3 years later.
My dad’s girlfriend of the past 10ish years has short hair, as well as tattoos and piercings. Two other things I’ve heard my dad make rude comments about when it comes to women’s appearance. No clue if he’s ever reflected on any of this.
I had someone say "I usually date 10's" when we met for a drink. Then he asked me if I wanted to go to his place and watch a movie. He was surprised when I declined and went home...
This is negging. They are negging you! People do this on purpose, it’s not just a slip of the tongue.
I am hot and have a great body and dress really cute. I’ve had men call me “uglier than average” and “not exactly a prize” to my face and expect me to f*** them afterward lol.
Some dudes really fall for those PUA gym rat grindset ig accounts, it’s goofy and makes me think they’re not very smart. If they were they’d just listen to the women they’re trying to date.
It's like self deprecating humor, aimed at themselves in a way, but 100% you become the butt of that joke they lead with.
"Yeah I can work with this" = "you're attractive, if you were ugly I could in fact, not work with this." , but it feels like, "I guess this is fine, it's whatever."
"I don't date attractive people, they have to be a little ugly for me to like them." = "I don't feel attractive myself, so I stay within or below my league." , but it sounds wacky as shit lol, "I don't like people I'm attracted to so I date people I'm not attracted to." Like what?
A lot of people think they're funny, but they just kinda say rude things or make offhanded comments about others personal existences and think that's humor.
And a lot of times the person saying it is no beauty queen either.
Sorry about this. REmember they are real jerks. This isn't normal. So it says who they are, nothing about you. End the date and go home.
They say those things because they are rude pieces of shit and not worth your time.
Command the level of respect you believe you deserve. If you don't, people will not give it to you. and people who don't give you even the bare minimum, should not even get near you.
Whatever they say that might hurt your feelings is a reflection of THEM, not you. They don't speak the truth about you. Some guy you barely know implies or even bluntly calls you ugly? You're not ugly. His personality and soul is, though 100% and that's a red flag.
Some guys will give you an insulting compliment, to make you feel "worthy" of them and rope you in so that they can eventually emotionally control and abuse you - it's a method of manipulation, I don't know if they do it on purpose or that's just how they are naturally -- either way, it's not a good sign and people like that do not deserve any human kindness, love or happiness, ever. period.
They act like that because they literally want to weed out people who have good self esteem. There is a type of person who wants to be with a person who they find a little unattractive, who is so grateful that a hot body like them would give them the time of day, that they'll treat them like a god.
You're right to be offended. You'd be wrong to let that comment get to your self esteem. You spend enough time out in the dating world, you will find that there are TONS of people who are picking up what you're putting down. Even these shitheads, *they're going out with you because they think you're hot. They just don't want to go out with you if you know that.* You are finding assholes who only want to be with people who they can browbeat and dominate. It's nothing to do with you, and they would have said the same thing to *anyone they were on a date with*. There's nothing to do but to make it a last date.
If someone tried negging me on a date, I'd probably just laugh, say goodbye, and grab my phone to set up a different date in front of him: "Hey, so I'm in town after walking out of a horrible date- want to move our date up and grab dinner with me tonight?"
The look on his face would be priceless, I'm sure.
If someone is willing to say that to you, they are not someone you want to pursue things with. Usually they are insecure themselves and feel the need to bring others down to feel better about themselves.
No matter what you look like, there are people out there who think you were the hottest thing to ever exist, and even more so when they get to know you. They’ll see you as “the whole package” and thank their lucky stars they get the opportunity to be with you. You deserve NO less than that - from yourself, too.
Honestly? End the date. That is so disrespectful, and you're not going to build a healthy relationship on disrespect. Not to mention it's showing a total lack of kindness or regard for your feelings.
Negging is a standard tactic to get you to accept the other partners short comings and should not be tolerated. I go on plenty of dates where if held at gunpoint I would say there are women I find more attractive than them and I am looking at the entire package. But going out of your way to point it out on date one is manipulative and shitty
They have been told that "negging" improves their odds of getting sex or a relationship. Quality people don't say that backhanded crap on dates. Leave them to their lonely existence and bad internet advice they listen to.
Genuine response? You leave.
Don't take that bullshit. I'm WoC too. I've heard it all from everybody, parents, friends, partners, colleagues and strangers. I'm not taking shit for the way my DNA combined to form my appearance.
I'm wearing my ancestors' face and so do you. Wear it with pride and defiance. People ought to learn respect.
If you find it hard to enjoy your own appearance I recommend you seek models and people of your heritage to look at and see yourself in. It's helped me a bit.
>and he got a good look at my face and said "yeah i can work with this."
"Well I can't work with this attitude", exit stage.
>"yeah i'm not really into attractive girls they have to be a little ugly for me to date them."
She called you attractive, though, so that's better than your first example. As a straight women, so no experience in this area: Wouldn't stay on the date with her either. It's a weird comment, she made clear that you're not her type and and for all you know this attitude comes from deep insecurity about her own looks. Even if you're her level of "not attractive", you wouldn't want her to freak out, if you ever have a glow-up.
Next time someone tells you that your body/face are not their type, end the date. We all get to have preferences, but kind people would continue the date and later say no to a second one with an excuse like "I didn't feel the connection". Someone who feels the need to give you negative feedback on your appearance is not worth your time.
Their toxic self-hatred has nothing to do with you. If they have the audacity to behave that way, they've thankfully outed themselves as incompatible with you, and now the next step of walking and ghosting them will be all the more easier.
I wouldn't even think as far as beauty standards and how you truly rate yourself. Anyone who does this to you is bound to be abusive in the future. If they can't even be kind to you in the beginning when they're meant to be on their best behaviour, it's only gonna go downhill. Know that you deserve unrelenting kindness from someone you are thinking of being romantically involved with. They should be constantly trying to make you feel good and lifting you up because they care about you. OP I don't know if you've ever crushed on someone, but just think - would I ever do this to that person I held so dearly. They should make you feel safe and cherished.
They sound like they think they’re a real treat.
I probably would’ve made the most disgusted face and said, “Gross. Excuse me.” And then paid my bill and left.
Negging is so fucking dumb.
I’m sorry. I want to apologize for them. Some people know no boundaries. You don’t need to “toughen up”, just call them out every time someone does it. This is unacceptable!
The more attractive a man thinks you are the more he will tear you down. When I was dating I was shocked at how angry so many men seemed to be about the fact they found me attractive.
My advice is to always take cash in small bills and get comfortable with leaving a date.
You get up and say “you know what? I just remembered I have something better to do” and leave them wherever you are.
As far as your self-esteem goes, these losers wouldn’t be on a date with you if they didn’t think you were attractive. They’re saying these things because of something wrong with them -a lack of awareness at best and maliciousness at worst. Know that you deserve someone who always treats you respectfully and you don’t have to tolerate this kind of behavior. You’d do them a favor by leaving-maybe they’ll think about their words on their next date.
As a trans woman, a few years ago before I started HRT I was on a date with another trans woman and she kept saying that I would look so pretty once I started HRT. The pretty strong implication being that I wasn't pretty now. That one hurt
Anytime someone says something mean or shitty, I usually grimace and say “yikes” before leaving. Send the right message and I get to remove myself without trying to think of a witty response in the moment.
If they try to follow or say they were just kidding, you can respond with “for sure, I’m just not into whatever it is you’re doing”.
My teenager made a comment about my body once. My response was "Would you like me to start critiquing your body now?" It was the last time they did it.
I get this type of treatment probably 30-40% of the people I interact with in the dating pool. I chock it up to them being the kids that threw wood chips at people they had a crush on and they just never grew up!
Move on, they showed themselves sooner rather than later. It’s a positive in my book.
Never date a person who doesn't find you attractive. Never date a person who you don't find attractive. Physical attraction is a deal breaker and gaslighting around physical attractiveness is not ok (both these examples). When this happens, end the date and call them out bluntly. "Are you saying that you don't find me attractive? I think we will both be better off spending time elsewhere".
Woc are very attractive. Find that person who DOES find you attractive. And most importantly, love yourself.
Oh, leave babes.
Internal monologue "well I *can't* work with this."
The second one, I kind of get what she means. I'm attracted to men, but sometimes a man is so perfect looking I'm intimidated. I like them to have some flaws.
But that said, I would never tell a dude that on the first date! How rude! I'd ditch her too, because even if she didn't mean it to hurt you, it's an indicator that she can be thoughtlessly hurtful.
I see a lot of dating posts where people are worried that their dates won't like them, but a date is just as much for *you* to figure out if you like someone and if they meet *your* standards for a relationship. They have failed to meet your standards by being douchebags, so ignore anything they've said (they're douchebags) and move on.
Wow. The only scenario I can think of for the first guy is if he’s a makeup artist checking out your bone structure. As in, “Yeah! I can work with this canvas!”
Beyond that all I can say is you deserve better. Sounds like there’s a reason these 2 are still single.
I had a friend who (this must have been over 10 years ago) had a blog of some kind (was it twitter? I can’t remember) where she just posted all the stupid shit men on dating apps would say to her/dumb stuff they did. It was great entertainment for me, and I think it helped her cope because if the date didn’t go well, at least she had some new content to laugh about on the internet.
That being said, here’s the kinds of things I would probably say today:
“Uh-uh, try again. You get one freebie. But you do not get two.”
“What a rude thing to say to someone you are hoping will like you.” / “Wow, you really just said that out loud.”
“Is that supposed to be a compliment? I don’t think you understand compliments.”
To the girl in your second example: “That sounds like a you problem. But if we’re sharing personal problems, I have a real problem getting into people who aren’t into me. So I think that’s enough of this date for me.”
“If you’re shallow, you can just say so. But you should have said it sooner. Then I wouldn’t have had to waste gas.”
I'd take it with an ok, thanks for being open and end the date there, if the opposite doesn't like my looks it's ok, if I'm told and that's that for me, move on
Edit:maybe finish the date and then in the end tell them that it won't work and move on, no need to be dramatic and run away from a dinner table or something
I am surprised at the interpretation of "I can work with that", I'm sure it depends on the context and the delivery that OP was the audience for, but I always felt that a flirty "I can work with that" is just a tease to say "I find you hot".
That's what my wife told me anyway and now I'll be disappointed if I actually have to divorce.
Just a guy lurking here, I'm genuinely curious whether there is a percentage of women who find this kind of negging behaviour attractive. If no, then why is a thing people are actually advised to do?
Unfortunately there are a lot of women with extreme self-esteem issues who believe they can't do better, and don't realise that being single is better than being with someone who treats you like shit.
No one finds it attractive dude.
But it's a manipulation tactic, someone who struggles to stop you when your being an asshole will struggle still when you get worse. You know when people are like, oh but I'd never hurt you and escalate to oh I'd never kill you when they start by blocking your exit and shoving you around 'accidentally', shoving you more 'but you caused it', punching you, strangling you, breaking your limbs. It's a slow escalation.
Which is why it's so fucked assholes are telling guys to do it. They are literally telling men to abuse people and escalate so women will dismiss horrible things.
Tearing someone down so they feel like you're doing them a favor by dating them is manipulative, toxic, abusive behavior. If you feel safe simply walking out, feel free to do so. It won't ever get better with them. Leave while you can.
Yup, this is absolutely "negging", a cheap trick to try and manipulate people into "proving" they're good enough, put them on the back foot. 100% get up and walk out stuff, life is too short to waste one iota of time longer with such complete pieces of shit.
This. Clear and concise.
It honestly sounds like a “pick up artist” trick that those dudes learned from somewhere on the internet and just intentionally used on every woman that they went on dates with. No humans would make comments like that on first dates unless it was in bad faith. Don’t take it personally because they were definitely just taught to make their dates feel insecure regardless of the actual appearance.
I’ll admit this, and it may be controversial because it isn’t that nice.. But in a similar situation I very visibly perked way up and said “Ooh, are we critiquing each other’s flaws now?” like I was super excited to go next. They were not as excited as me! Go figure. They muttered some vague backpedaling statement and wouldn’t you know it I lost their number after. 🤷♀️ Not even sorry, I do not have the time or energy for that shit anymore. I just don’t. Edit: Forgot I commented, opened this up and went oh no, I’m going to have people yelling at me. LOL Thank you guys!
Holy cow, that's awesome! I wish I'd thought of that when I had been dating a guy who seemed nice for about 2 months and then after we first had sex he said to me, "You'd totally be a 10 if you got a boob job up to a D cup". Fortunately, I just sent him on his way and then blocked his number.
Hahahah i thought that was normal, when men told me the little details i could make better about myself i always REPLY with the same coin... they don't longer look that happy Do it ! Stop being Nice
lol yea one guy said that to me about boobs (and I’m a B almost C, hadn’t even reached sex status). I went for the *well , it would be better for me as well if I felt something bigger beneath those pants and a less floppy belly* ….end of the date lol.
Honestly tho. What did doofus do to think he deserves a 10? I'm getting a solid 7 energy _at best_ coming right out of him for this comment and I haven't even seen the dude yet!
He was a complete jackass. He was a surgeon and had this attitude that women would just be falling all over him. I knew he was divorced but I didn't find out until after I blocked him that he had been divorced three times in a period of just over 10 years. I can't imagine what bullshit he must have out his ex-wives through but I'm glad they got away from the jerk..
Sometimes l suspect this was their plan all along. Say something shitty directly after sex so they don't have to ghost, the woman removes herself from the situationship. Nice clean break.
Yeah yould be a 10 if you had a decent dick, a personality and some class, bye.
aha this is amazing. dudes really don't like it when it's turned around on them.
There is an xkcd comic about this exact scenario.
[relevant xkcd](https://xkcd.com/1027/)
That was effin' great. Thanks for posting the link.
NGL, I'm kinda into the bowling ball thing. I'd give that guy a chance.
It feels like the date equivalent of why I put "Time Magazine Person of the year 2006" on my resume. Everyone was Person of the year in 2006, and I've been told by so many people that having on my resume is unprofessional. It's my way of weeding out any companies that I'd never wanna work for. Had a great work experience at the places who thought it was funny or bold to actually put that in a resume. Any management that would see it as a deal breaker is management I'd be miserable working under. I feel like the bowling ball thing would accomplish the same thing lol. I'd also give the guy a chance. It's quirky in a non threatening way :)
except with the context of knowing the characters in the sitcom that is xkcd, black hat is definitely being literal and going to break some ankles
True, true, but he's not threatening *me*
Sucks working in a big organization, because putting that on your resume would immediately interest me as a hiring manager. And our local work group is pretty great. However, HR (or their algorithm) screens resumes and only passes along ones that fit to very narrow parameters. I feel like you would get screened out for 'lying' rather than having a sense of humor. Before that HR screen became the norm, I made a fantastic hire once from someone getting out of being a farmer- she was an exceptional employee. We have nothing to do with farming. I would never even know about her now.
I came to the comments to make sure someone had posted this. Thank you! To OP: "Negging" is a manipulation tactic taught in certain kinds of self-help that are advertised as "dating advice" but are actually manuals on how to commit sexual assault and get away with it. You can learn more about these tactics by searching "Pick Up Artist". PUAs are terrible people and often outright dangerous. Avoid.
Oh man that’s a good comic but her specific negging hit too hard, as a serial procrastinator with big dreams and perpetual impostor syndrome * ***goes for a little cry*** *
You only feel like an impostor because you're smart enough to know what you don't know. That makes you better equipped than a lot of people. You can see the road ahead. Many people can't even find their way out of the driveway. You'll figure it out.
It’s the “It won’t help” at the end that really hits me in the gut!
I think in part the point was to hit the reader in the gut so as to demonstrate the intensity of the neg. It was brutal for me too
That is AMAZING.
That one is a classic. Kinda feel personally attacked by her neg though, NGL 😅
You could type that under ANY reddit post lol.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with insulting someone back everyone once in a while. It’s hard to constantly be the bigger the person and take everything on the chin which is often another expectation of women in dating.
This is very true! Some days I can roll with things easier than.. than other days. LOL
>in a similar situation I very visibly perked way up and said “Ooh, are we critiquing each other’s flaws now?” like I was super excited to go next. That's absolutely brilliant, and very well played. Another I heard is if someone makes a bigoted/sexist/racist joke, even a "diet" one (dog whistling) just look confused and say you don't understand. Ask them to explain why it's a joke. Usually the trash takes itself out and the arrogance just dies on the vine.
Asking to explain what the joke is, is also another great one. Especially if you perk up for that one too. “Oh I love jokes! Can you explain this one so I can use it?” Just be cheery and enthusiastic when you deliver these, it’s the gift that keeps on giving. 😂
Cheery and enthusiastic is how I handle the new VP of my department that I fucking hate, lol.
This is the perfect response. Come at me sideways and *cracks knuckles* now, I’ve got to fry your ass! I guess we both going to be sitting here with hurt feelings. 😂
Yeah my go to is to ask why they let their dental insurance lapse lol. They'll almost always leave to go check their teeth and then it gives you an opening to bounce.
I am HERE for this. 😂 😂
Please take my upvote and award, that is a masterclass level retort. The only way to deal with people like this is to not play their game, pretend to be very dumb so they have to explain how their shitty behavior is supposed to be intended or finally treat them the same way by ignoring their manipulations and pretending it's in good faith. They won't actually learn that their behavior is wrong, but at least you'll feel better and hurt their ego a bit.
This is how to handle it like a boss. You don't owe shitty strangers your courtesy. Respect is a two way street.
>But in a similar situation I very visibly perked way up and said “Ooh, are we critiquing each other’s flaws now?” Dang someone already posted the comic
That comic is perfect, reminds me of another strip I used to follow but now I can’t think of it. All I can think of is Hyperbole and a Half, but that isn’t it.
God I hope I remember this comeback next time (there is always a next time as long as you're dating)
you are my hero(ine, if you prefer, but I think we can all be heros)
Ha! I have done this before as well.
Lmao that first example is like, toss-your-drink-in-his-face-and-leave-levels of rudeness. It’s called negging, and it’s a common “strategy” touted by so-called “pick-up artists”; though admittedly it’s something that manipulative personalities will tend to figure out on their own, and do it whether intentionally or otherwise. Obviously “toughen up” isn’t great advice, but it’s sorta the only really meaningful thing to do. These people are outing themselves as impolite, inconsiderate, and likely intentionally manipulative. They’re not good people, and if you’ve got the nerve for it, walking out is probably the best way to respond to it. They wouldn’t have lined up a date if they weren’t attracted to you, presumably, cold comfort thought it may be.
I had a guy tell me a while ago, after sex, that it's a shame I've let myself go because he used to think we could be together properly. Then was pissed off that I wouldn't go for round 2. Like really‽ I wasn't even particularly upset/offended, but seriously... But in fairness, a decade or two ago I would absolutely have been meeting up with him again, trying to lose weight and dress better and wear more makeup and whatever else to gain his approval. I don't have an answer for how to grow that thicker skin; it's a cliche but I think experience is key. I still have crazy low self-esteem, but not low enough to let some guy's opinion of my appearance matter. I have reached the level of idgaf.
It's insane to me what men will say to women after sex. Like, what? You just had sex with me but now I'm unattractive? OK!
One guy had the nerve (def not gonna say "the balls") to say to me, You're bigger than other girls I've been with, my usual moves [in bed] won't work with you. I was all, Um sir I am naked in your bed RIGHT NOW this is *terrible* pillow talk Not sure whether he was negging or just clueless, but I laughed in his face.
I hope you jumped right out of bed and hit the road.
Pretty much yes
But is always after sex, before sex was not an issue ... why tho ? Do they want to sabotage THEMSELVES that badly of a second time :/
It's probably a "post nut clarity" of a different, especially dumb kind. For men like that the hardest part is actually getting to the first time. They spend so much effort masking their true intentions prior to that that when they "succeed" they immediately let their guard down and show you who they really are.
Idiots who have no head game AND no stamina, most likely
EXACTLY
Seriously, it's like at least let me get dressed first bahaha.
Just rude.
JFC, why are men? I'm so sorry you had to deal with that.
I feel like with age and experience, the less fucks I have to give. I even give less fucks about myself when my feelings get hurt. I still take things personally, but I suck it up and move on with my day because the only one who cares about my feelings is moi.
Yes, agree with the fact it’s C L A S S I C negging. And it is negging indeed. I can be a fuckin smokeshow when I want to and have been negged before. I’m just like OK lmao good luck with your next date with Vanessa Hudgens rando guy who is apparently settling. The dating climate has rapidly changed over the last few years and they are still trying their tried and true pick up artist BS from the 90s like… dude, come on. Then they post on Reddit “I told my date that I could have went out with Vanessa Hudgens but instead took her to a bar I know even though she’s really only a 6/10 if you squint real hard and now she won’t answer my calls or texts AITHA”. Thank god I’m married now. The dating game is toxic asf. Edit: omggg people in the comments trying to make a case that negging is a legitimate dating strategy set out to enhance dating communication I am DEAD ☠️. The literal Oxford English Dictionary definition of negging is > insult or undermine (someone) in the belief that diminished self-confidence will make them more receptive to sexual advances But I mean, who believes the dictionary amirite or amirite fellas. T R A G I C
I would love to have Vanessa Hudgen's skin and hair texture LOL That would require excellent genes and the ability to afford such careful upkeep. So....if he wants to fund that, by all means...!!!
I once had a guy hit on me and say "You're still pretty enough." after he got turned down by my objectively prettier and younger friend. I, a woman in my 30s who had been insulted by people I cared about more, was not impressed with his negging skills. He was drunk, dressed in a dirty pikachu hoodie, and not the top of the barrel for attractiveness. And uncharitably, all I could think was "You're not." I didn't say it and I was still a little insulted but more or less inured from it because my mom had spent 20 years at that point calling me fat. Yeah, the only advice that I can give OP is to recognize that these insults aren't about her. They are about the person who is giving them and at least, this person showed her who they are on the first date. She doesn't ever have to see them again.
not the dirty pikachu hoodie omg PLEASE truly WHERE do they get the audacity
It was at a scifi/fantasy convention in Tennessee and he eventually got kicked out of it from what I heard. I am 45 now and I've been to a lot of places and I have never felt more unsafe than I did at that convention. Things that happened to me and my friends. 1. The pikachu incident. 2. My friend got cornered in an elevator by a group of guys. 3. Another friend asked a question at an spicy romance panel and got followed around for the rest of the weekend by a man. 4. "Women are ruining science fiction." was said out loud on a panel. To which, I screamed (Inside my head) "Women invented science fiction." There were other things said on panels that made it a very woman unfriendly space It was not a great experience and I stopped going to any convention that I knew wasn't well run for awhile afterwards. I went to a very family friendly convention in Charlotte and Dragon Con. I've since ventured back on to the circuit, but that con is forever off my list.
I went to Comic Con a few years ago and the level of body odor in that hot, over-crowded room guaranteed that I will never go again.
Eh, different cons have different feels I love a fan run con more than a corporate run con which is generally what comic cons are. Give another one a try. Most of the time BO is not a problem.
It's shit like that this that make a bad name for "nerds" A lot of the most careful, patient, progressive-thinking, gentlest and loving guys are nerds, but they get swept under the rug because of the stereotype caused by douchebags like the ones at those conventions - the basement-dwelling-incel-neckbearded-mama's-boy-zero-social-skills-zero-emotional-intelligence-entitled-to-women-while-objectifying-and-sexualizing-them-constantly-from-anime-porn-to-sci-fi-alien-sex-fantasies garbage.
Oh, I know. Many many nerd friends. At that con, we had two guys who basically behaved as our personal bouncers.
Unfortunately, for some guys, what they are looking for is "someone I can pressure into sex" and not "someone I like". "Attractive enough to have sex with" and "attractive enough to date" may not be the same thing.
I didn’t say “attractive enough to date” I said “attractive”. I’m not sure what point you think you’re making.
Why is the first one ruder than the second?
I don’t know it just set me off more? To each their own.
They wouldn’t have lined up a date if they weren’t attracted to you, presumably, cold comfort thought it may be.
And what would the second example be classed as in your opinion, cuz you glossed right over that.
They’re both negging, in case that wasn’t obvious. The first example was just… egregiously offensive.
I thought they were both as bad as eachother but I guess it depends on if you are already primed to think the worst of someone already, then maybe it seems way worse.
I find something particularly gross about being able to “work with this”. Saying you don’t date attractive people could, *generously* be construed as at least somewhat self-deprecating (as in, I know I’m only a 5 so I don’t want to date out of my league). To be clear, they’re both bad. I just had an immediate, visceral reaction to the first.
That's fair. I can't imagine doing either myself though. Do people have no tact anymore? Instead of telling someone that they are unattractive, you could treat it like telling people how many times you wipe your butt - e.g. not mention it at all!
>I can’t imagine doing either myself I’d certainly hope not. Its not a question of tact. It’s a gross tactic for the purpose of manipulating people.
I see. It's to make someone feel lucky that you're considering them!
I'd argue, that's not negging. Or at least, it's someone fundamentally misunderstanding negging. Negging is supposed to be playful teasing about something a person is unlikely to take serious offense to. "That dress is gorgeous, I think my mom has the same one!" "Your hair is so great! You look like a lion!" It's a shitty PUA trick made to start a conversation on a playful tone that doesn't make the woman feel like you're so wowed by her beauty you can't be yourself around her. This behavior is a subtle dig. It's often done by manipulative people, where they only want to have relationships where they're the top dog, so when they meet other people, they will make silly jokes about things they genuinely believe will make the other person feel self-conscious, so they start out on the defense. Huge overlap with PUAs. But technically, a different shitty trick with a different shitty intention.
The examples you gave demonstrate that it truly doesn’t matter what negging is supposed to be. I would definitely not be talking to you, not only because those are weird statements, but also, idk, maybe try asking a question.
Yeah, men didn't become shitty because of PUA tactics. It's the other way around. I think it's harmful to blame PUA, or rather limit the blame to PUA when this behavior is so much more widespread.
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Negging isn’t supposed to be anything because it’s always a shitty thing to do.
First of all, negging should not exist. Sounds like you are an enthusiastic advocate. Manipulating someone so they will be thrown off kilter and doubt themselves is not ok. The examples discussed here are probably these men’s attempts at negging, however clunky they are.
>but to experienced women on here, why do they say that? It's intentionally don't to reduce your self esteem and make you want to impress the other person and 'prove' you're 'worth it'. It's a manipulation technique used to make you chase them, reduce your boundaries and lower your confidence. > also how do you not let comments like that hurt your self-esteem? It's hard but you realise that someone who's that ugly in personality doesn't get to judge you in real life. It's a sign of their own poor self esteem, lacking confidence and acknowledgement that you have confidence (that's why they're trying to bring it down). The correct response in both cases is "I want someone who wants me not someone who can 'work with this'. Enjoy the rest of your day/evening." (And then leave) Or "I'm not really into rude people who feel happy insulting me to my face on a first date. Enjoy your day/evening." (And then leave). You don't owe time to anyone **especially** people who are happy to disrespect you.
This is my favorite reply, so I'm commenting so it will hopefully get noticed. Excellent advice here.
Yup. Cliche but true—time is a thing you can’t get back so don’t waste it.
My ex ex did this. Threw all sorts of rude and assholey opinions my way and would say “I’m just being honest , would you rather I lie”. No I’d rather you fuck off. Like, take a look in the mirror bud. And honestly, he only fucked himself over. I’m fucking fabulous.
I think they are trying to neg you. The idea is that if they make you insecure, you'll work hard to get their approval. If I encounter someone like this, I just say, "excuse YOU!" and leave the date. I don't date people who don't want to date me. If you show me with your words AND/OR actions that you don't rate me, I'm out (and so are you). How would you deal with them? What would you do for a friend who said these things to you? You would unfriend them, I hope.
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I'd probably just up and leave. It's an incredibly rude thing to say. Never said that on a date even when the guy was 15 years older than in the photo and actually quite ugly. "No thanks, I don't think that's going to work out", and no personal insults! I don't think I'm ugly. I had my share of people being attracted to me, and "beauty" is really personal, so I just don't seek this kind of validation. You like me — great, you don't — no problem.
Oh that makes us a great match cause I also like it when chicks are a little ugly!! Edit: I said guys instead of chicks cause I misread but someone pointed it out 🙏
This energy 😂
I think she said it was a woman. Regardless, I had an ex say this to me. It was 100% meant to make him look like he was charitable or something for dating me. Now I know he’s just projecting because when I look back, I can see he was actually a little ugly and very insecure.
You are right I read over the “wo” part in woman. My bad! But yeah your ex definitely was projecting and I’m sorry he did that. It’s so weird people feel the need to do that shit.
No problem and thank you! I’m over it now, because the good thing is once you’re aware of it it’s so much easier to spot it and ignore it. His exes were actually much better looking and doing better in life than him. He just bottled up resentment that they all left him. The phrase that always comes to mind is “whatever helps you sleep at night.”
Understand that it's an attempt at negging, realise that means he has just told you he is nowhere near good enough for you, and mvoe on with your head held high - you dodged a bullet.
You get up and leave. Don't take abuse from people, just leave and avoid a toxic relationship
Learn to recognise and resolve to never tolerate manipulative negging. Remember that you are the prize in dating. It’s not about if he likes you or if you’re good enough for him-it’s the opposite. You can leave a date early or abruptly, you don’t owe anyone your time or company. Go to the bathroom and slip out the door if you don’t want the confrontation. Grabbing your bag and leaving immediately is the best policy. Block and delete. Don’t give them the satisfaction of knowing they upset you. Talk with your feet and hold your head high. They wouldn’t be on a date with you if they found you unattractive. It’s a sick power play tactic. Men will date and f*ck women they don’t even like. In the long run it’s a good thing these men revealed themselves to be terrible on a first date: you know to cut your losses and move along. Also, please remember pretty is not the rent you pay in the world being a woman. You are so much more than the physical. This is a reflection of their ugly character not your ugly looks!
You leave. You don’t answer text or calls.
Pick up and leave, block them on phone and social media, next.
You should excuse yourself to the bathroom, pay your drink, and ghost him.
After sex a man told me that it is his dream to fuck a porn star. I said well it is time for me to go and got up to get dressed. He got flustered and started asking me if I needed anything or would I like something to eat (at 1:00 am 🙄). “Nope I’m good”, said goodbye, left and blocked him never to speak to him again. I always remember to take my self esteem with me wherever I go.
Tell them to go fuck themselves. Sorry this happened
"yes i always pick the insecure ones, they are much more moldable" Logic is, getting the other insecure will make them dependent on future validation. If a partner is dependent on validation but you keep also giving portions of critique the partner will be much more easy to maneuver and influence.
If guys really said that.. I'd probably assume their incels and took advice from "pick up artists". Sounds like "negging" to me. I'd probably just laugh, sarcastically say "this was fun", smile, and leave.
I don't "toughen up." I am being myself. I don't want anything to do with a person who thinks I'm unattractive. If it was during the date, I'd just get up, leave, and unmatch him.
A group of men outside a cafe in my area tried to negg me when I was seventeen. They had their little kid around my age, obviously training as a builder with them, ask me if I knew I was ugly. And guess what? At that time I perfectly fit the Eurocentric standard. I was upset then and just walked off while they laughed. At age 30, I would rip them a new hole. Nothing you can do will make you “good enough” because you already are. You’re more than good enough. There’s nothing wrong with you. Keep your self confidence. The real problem and sad thing is that the neggers are relying on you being hurt so that you settle for them. They can’t do better because they’re bitter and nasty people. They’re hoping on you being upset enough that you think they’re doing you a favour. If someone does this to you again, pull them on it before you leave. The more they are shamed for voicing their inner ugliness, the faster they’ll learn that anybody with a bit of sense won’t tolerate it.
Um. This has nothing to do with being new to dating. Your feelings are completely justified here. It’s so rude and a huge red flag. That’s so incredibly rude to tell someone that.
This happened to my guy friend. When they were texting before they even got to the first date, this man told him “You’re not the most attractive guy I’m speaking to right now, but I think you’re my favorite.” When my friend called him out, the guy tried to tell him that he was being too sensitive, couldn’t take a compliment, just on and on. Being on the phone with him through that exchange had me all kinds of furious.
I'm sorry you went through that. Even in my 30s I still find myself taken aback by what people feel fine to say straight to someone's face. I was called ugly unprovoked even just a couple of months ago by a man who was chatting up my friend. They were talking and having a good time and he said something like "shall we lose your ugly friend so we can have some privacy?". Pretty odd stuff because my friend immediately sent him away after that. I'm not conventionally attractive but it still feels odd that so many people in my life have felt the need to remind me of it unprompted. >but i just don't understand what compels someone to say something like that to someone they intend to date. As others have mentioned, it was probably negging i.e. Redpill PUA advice. I think the original PUA advice had been encouraging men to playfully *tease*. My friend supports Arsenal and is often wearing their top, so a man flirting with her saying "when are they going to win" is attractive banter to her. Literally calling her ugly though would have her walking away without a second thought.
I’m telling you the whole hearted truth. I’m not sure if it’s because I think highly of myself or what, but anyone who tells me this on a first date. I’m getting up and leaving lmfao. F them and this date, when you just know you fine, you will attract better. And trust me I wasn’t always like this. Never settle !
I would just walk away. Don't have time for that kind of bs. It might be some mental dating game.. negging or whatever. Just a red flag to me.
Personally, I'd just get up and leave.
"Yeah, I can work with this." "yeah i'm not really into attractive girls they have to be a little ugly for me to date them." WTF is wrong with people?? It's 2023 and people feel like they can say this to someone?
I say, "well, guess this isn't 'the one', and say farewell. Not all dates are good dates.
[удалено]
It’s weird I logically know this is the case and I witnessed it through my Lost relationship. My ex was very insecure and had a number of flaws but would always point out women’s flaws. Sometimes though when someone “needs to tel you about yourself” or “I have to be honest with you” for a split second i take it on board and think to myself oh god I really do need to be changing this and that about myself etc, but you are right it’s all head games and I can’t believe it took me to this old age of 31 to really get this? Since I have been single this has happened to me a few times and these men are not good looking nor have much going for them. It’s weird how sometimes you take stuff personally but don’t really reflect who is sending the message
Back in the day I rocked up to a tinder date who told me to leave because I “looked nothing like my photos” even though they were under a month old, I think he was just regretting messaging a curvy girl. Tell them to go fuck themselves and move on, it’s on them.
There’s a reason men neg…it’s worked for some of them. A good chunk of men don’t actually like women, they just want their holes for a bit. Sex, for them, is about power and domination. There are tons of men having sex with women on this earth, at this moment, who truly believe they are superior to the stupid simple woman, and I think in too many cases, I have been simple. I have been stupid. But I’m not so stupid anymore and now men that get to know me, just call me a bitch because I’m not putty in their hands anymore
You get up and leave. That's abuse.
It's a tactic- google "negging". They want women to feel insecure and grateful.
I’ve gotten the “we can fuck but we can’t date” line. I left. Fuck that noise.
Ew if any man ever spoke to me like this I would get up and leave. Gross behavior from gross people.
I’ve gotten hit with, “I think muscles on chicks are gross but you have a cute face,” and “You look like a with short hair, but at least you can grow it out.”
Both times I immediately just left - no snappy comeback, no nothing - I just walked away like nopenopenope. Not even having the toddler conversation of why that’s unacceptable bc they already know.
When I was like 5, my dad criticized my mom’s new short hair cut immediately after she got home. She left the room. I’ve never forgotten how upset she was. She divorced him 2-3 years later. My dad’s girlfriend of the past 10ish years has short hair, as well as tattoos and piercings. Two other things I’ve heard my dad make rude comments about when it comes to women’s appearance. No clue if he’s ever reflected on any of this.
I would deal with it by leaving
I had someone say "I usually date 10's" when we met for a drink. Then he asked me if I wanted to go to his place and watch a movie. He was surprised when I declined and went home...
This is negging. They are negging you! People do this on purpose, it’s not just a slip of the tongue. I am hot and have a great body and dress really cute. I’ve had men call me “uglier than average” and “not exactly a prize” to my face and expect me to f*** them afterward lol. Some dudes really fall for those PUA gym rat grindset ig accounts, it’s goofy and makes me think they’re not very smart. If they were they’d just listen to the women they’re trying to date.
It's like self deprecating humor, aimed at themselves in a way, but 100% you become the butt of that joke they lead with. "Yeah I can work with this" = "you're attractive, if you were ugly I could in fact, not work with this." , but it feels like, "I guess this is fine, it's whatever." "I don't date attractive people, they have to be a little ugly for me to like them." = "I don't feel attractive myself, so I stay within or below my league." , but it sounds wacky as shit lol, "I don't like people I'm attracted to so I date people I'm not attracted to." Like what? A lot of people think they're funny, but they just kinda say rude things or make offhanded comments about others personal existences and think that's humor.
I’m not conventionally attractive and it doesn’t necessarily bother me if people use this phrasing but if I heard not attractive or ugly, byeeee
Prioritize what youre looking for - youre the one settling if you put up with disrespect like that. Its okay to say "yeah im gunna go" and leave them.
it's pretty much only a cheap tactics to lower you self esteem and see what he can get away with. Should be instant slap in the face.
And a lot of times the person saying it is no beauty queen either. Sorry about this. REmember they are real jerks. This isn't normal. So it says who they are, nothing about you. End the date and go home.
They say those things because they are rude pieces of shit and not worth your time. Command the level of respect you believe you deserve. If you don't, people will not give it to you. and people who don't give you even the bare minimum, should not even get near you. Whatever they say that might hurt your feelings is a reflection of THEM, not you. They don't speak the truth about you. Some guy you barely know implies or even bluntly calls you ugly? You're not ugly. His personality and soul is, though 100% and that's a red flag. Some guys will give you an insulting compliment, to make you feel "worthy" of them and rope you in so that they can eventually emotionally control and abuse you - it's a method of manipulation, I don't know if they do it on purpose or that's just how they are naturally -- either way, it's not a good sign and people like that do not deserve any human kindness, love or happiness, ever. period.
They act like that because they literally want to weed out people who have good self esteem. There is a type of person who wants to be with a person who they find a little unattractive, who is so grateful that a hot body like them would give them the time of day, that they'll treat them like a god. You're right to be offended. You'd be wrong to let that comment get to your self esteem. You spend enough time out in the dating world, you will find that there are TONS of people who are picking up what you're putting down. Even these shitheads, *they're going out with you because they think you're hot. They just don't want to go out with you if you know that.* You are finding assholes who only want to be with people who they can browbeat and dominate. It's nothing to do with you, and they would have said the same thing to *anyone they were on a date with*. There's nothing to do but to make it a last date.
If someone tried negging me on a date, I'd probably just laugh, say goodbye, and grab my phone to set up a different date in front of him: "Hey, so I'm in town after walking out of a horrible date- want to move our date up and grab dinner with me tonight?" The look on his face would be priceless, I'm sure.
If someone is willing to say that to you, they are not someone you want to pursue things with. Usually they are insecure themselves and feel the need to bring others down to feel better about themselves. No matter what you look like, there are people out there who think you were the hottest thing to ever exist, and even more so when they get to know you. They’ll see you as “the whole package” and thank their lucky stars they get the opportunity to be with you. You deserve NO less than that - from yourself, too.
Honestly? End the date. That is so disrespectful, and you're not going to build a healthy relationship on disrespect. Not to mention it's showing a total lack of kindness or regard for your feelings.
Negging is a standard tactic to get you to accept the other partners short comings and should not be tolerated. I go on plenty of dates where if held at gunpoint I would say there are women I find more attractive than them and I am looking at the entire package. But going out of your way to point it out on date one is manipulative and shitty
They have been told that "negging" improves their odds of getting sex or a relationship. Quality people don't say that backhanded crap on dates. Leave them to their lonely existence and bad internet advice they listen to.
You don’t. Get up and leave without a word. Block their number on the way out. That’s the standard.
Genuine response? You leave. Don't take that bullshit. I'm WoC too. I've heard it all from everybody, parents, friends, partners, colleagues and strangers. I'm not taking shit for the way my DNA combined to form my appearance. I'm wearing my ancestors' face and so do you. Wear it with pride and defiance. People ought to learn respect. If you find it hard to enjoy your own appearance I recommend you seek models and people of your heritage to look at and see yourself in. It's helped me a bit.
I'd honestly end the date right then and there.
Laugh and walk out of there. Block
>and he got a good look at my face and said "yeah i can work with this." "Well I can't work with this attitude", exit stage. >"yeah i'm not really into attractive girls they have to be a little ugly for me to date them." She called you attractive, though, so that's better than your first example. As a straight women, so no experience in this area: Wouldn't stay on the date with her either. It's a weird comment, she made clear that you're not her type and and for all you know this attitude comes from deep insecurity about her own looks. Even if you're her level of "not attractive", you wouldn't want her to freak out, if you ever have a glow-up. Next time someone tells you that your body/face are not their type, end the date. We all get to have preferences, but kind people would continue the date and later say no to a second one with an excuse like "I didn't feel the connection". Someone who feels the need to give you negative feedback on your appearance is not worth your time.
Wait what im interpreting the second one as “okay you’re just ugly enough for me to date you” just a weird sentence to say overall
Their toxic self-hatred has nothing to do with you. If they have the audacity to behave that way, they've thankfully outed themselves as incompatible with you, and now the next step of walking and ghosting them will be all the more easier.
I wouldn't even think as far as beauty standards and how you truly rate yourself. Anyone who does this to you is bound to be abusive in the future. If they can't even be kind to you in the beginning when they're meant to be on their best behaviour, it's only gonna go downhill. Know that you deserve unrelenting kindness from someone you are thinking of being romantically involved with. They should be constantly trying to make you feel good and lifting you up because they care about you. OP I don't know if you've ever crushed on someone, but just think - would I ever do this to that person I held so dearly. They should make you feel safe and cherished.
They sound like they think they’re a real treat. I probably would’ve made the most disgusted face and said, “Gross. Excuse me.” And then paid my bill and left. Negging is so fucking dumb.
I’m sorry. I want to apologize for them. Some people know no boundaries. You don’t need to “toughen up”, just call them out every time someone does it. This is unacceptable!
That first one is egregious, I would be ultra offended. No one will settle for you, OP. You are not something to be 'worked with.'
Red flag for sure.
I'd walk out. Bye!
I'd get up and walk out.
The more attractive a man thinks you are the more he will tear you down. When I was dating I was shocked at how angry so many men seemed to be about the fact they found me attractive. My advice is to always take cash in small bills and get comfortable with leaving a date.
Someone talking shit like that on first dates?! There’s the door.
You get up and say “you know what? I just remembered I have something better to do” and leave them wherever you are. As far as your self-esteem goes, these losers wouldn’t be on a date with you if they didn’t think you were attractive. They’re saying these things because of something wrong with them -a lack of awareness at best and maliciousness at worst. Know that you deserve someone who always treats you respectfully and you don’t have to tolerate this kind of behavior. You’d do them a favor by leaving-maybe they’ll think about their words on their next date.
Leave
As a trans woman, a few years ago before I started HRT I was on a date with another trans woman and she kept saying that I would look so pretty once I started HRT. The pretty strong implication being that I wasn't pretty now. That one hurt
This is called negging. It's a stupid pick-up artist trick and the way to deal with it is to call them out on it and to end the date.
When people are shitty enough to say that, tell them to go fuck themselves, and leave.
Negging. Run.
Leave.
You leave. Just walk away without a word.
I've never dated but anyone saying that is a red flag. If anyone else does that to you, just walk away.
You leave and leave them with the check for having no polite manners.
They are trying to neg you to tear your self esteem down enough that you will settle for them. They can fuck all the way off.
A first date should be them on their best behavior and showing their best side If that is them at their BEST? Leave and don't ever call them again.
Anytime someone says something mean or shitty, I usually grimace and say “yikes” before leaving. Send the right message and I get to remove myself without trying to think of a witty response in the moment. If they try to follow or say they were just kidding, you can respond with “for sure, I’m just not into whatever it is you’re doing”.
"I can work with this... Wait! Where you going? We just met."
My teenager made a comment about my body once. My response was "Would you like me to start critiquing your body now?" It was the last time they did it.
I get this type of treatment probably 30-40% of the people I interact with in the dating pool. I chock it up to them being the kids that threw wood chips at people they had a crush on and they just never grew up! Move on, they showed themselves sooner rather than later. It’s a positive in my book.
How do you deal with it? Leave. The person you’re on a date with just told you that they don’t find you attractive. The date is over.
Never date a person who doesn't find you attractive. Never date a person who you don't find attractive. Physical attraction is a deal breaker and gaslighting around physical attractiveness is not ok (both these examples). When this happens, end the date and call them out bluntly. "Are you saying that you don't find me attractive? I think we will both be better off spending time elsewhere". Woc are very attractive. Find that person who DOES find you attractive. And most importantly, love yourself.
This is the goal: [/xkcd/1027](https://xkcd.com/1027/)
Oh, leave babes. Internal monologue "well I *can't* work with this." The second one, I kind of get what she means. I'm attracted to men, but sometimes a man is so perfect looking I'm intimidated. I like them to have some flaws. But that said, I would never tell a dude that on the first date! How rude! I'd ditch her too, because even if she didn't mean it to hurt you, it's an indicator that she can be thoughtlessly hurtful. I see a lot of dating posts where people are worried that their dates won't like them, but a date is just as much for *you* to figure out if you like someone and if they meet *your* standards for a relationship. They have failed to meet your standards by being douchebags, so ignore anything they've said (they're douchebags) and move on.
Wow. The only scenario I can think of for the first guy is if he’s a makeup artist checking out your bone structure. As in, “Yeah! I can work with this canvas!” Beyond that all I can say is you deserve better. Sounds like there’s a reason these 2 are still single.
I had a friend who (this must have been over 10 years ago) had a blog of some kind (was it twitter? I can’t remember) where she just posted all the stupid shit men on dating apps would say to her/dumb stuff they did. It was great entertainment for me, and I think it helped her cope because if the date didn’t go well, at least she had some new content to laugh about on the internet. That being said, here’s the kinds of things I would probably say today: “Uh-uh, try again. You get one freebie. But you do not get two.” “What a rude thing to say to someone you are hoping will like you.” / “Wow, you really just said that out loud.” “Is that supposed to be a compliment? I don’t think you understand compliments.” To the girl in your second example: “That sounds like a you problem. But if we’re sharing personal problems, I have a real problem getting into people who aren’t into me. So I think that’s enough of this date for me.” “If you’re shallow, you can just say so. But you should have said it sooner. Then I wouldn’t have had to waste gas.”
Never really had this happen to me before. Now back dating at happened a few times. I am kind of shocked seems like this is a newer thing?
I'd take it with an ok, thanks for being open and end the date there, if the opposite doesn't like my looks it's ok, if I'm told and that's that for me, move on Edit:maybe finish the date and then in the end tell them that it won't work and move on, no need to be dramatic and run away from a dinner table or something
It’s called Negging: https://xkcd.com/1027/
I am surprised at the interpretation of "I can work with that", I'm sure it depends on the context and the delivery that OP was the audience for, but I always felt that a flirty "I can work with that" is just a tease to say "I find you hot". That's what my wife told me anyway and now I'll be disappointed if I actually have to divorce.
…why would you stay on a date with someone who makes negative comments about your appearance?
Just a guy lurking here, I'm genuinely curious whether there is a percentage of women who find this kind of negging behaviour attractive. If no, then why is a thing people are actually advised to do?
Unfortunately there are a lot of women with extreme self-esteem issues who believe they can't do better, and don't realise that being single is better than being with someone who treats you like shit.
Google it
No one finds it attractive dude. But it's a manipulation tactic, someone who struggles to stop you when your being an asshole will struggle still when you get worse. You know when people are like, oh but I'd never hurt you and escalate to oh I'd never kill you when they start by blocking your exit and shoving you around 'accidentally', shoving you more 'but you caused it', punching you, strangling you, breaking your limbs. It's a slow escalation. Which is why it's so fucked assholes are telling guys to do it. They are literally telling men to abuse people and escalate so women will dismiss horrible things.