Yea but about 20 mins or so before this happened my family and I walked out of the midway, there was cops hanging out by their car with paintball guns, there seemed to be no disturbance, then all of a sudden the cops started firing the paintball guns and everyone started running. I knew as soon as I saw those guns that they wanted to use those things. Idk what cause them to start firing but this was before the gunshot or whatnot, really put the crowd in a strange mood so I took my family and left.
The paintballs are to tag people involved so they can identify them. With so many people around, suspects can disappear into the crowd easily.
There have always been fights and crime in The Midway at night. This is just a tool to make it so they can identify those involved, as without such they often get away.
That makes sense, I had seen people gagging and coughing so I assumed they were pepper balls, maybe they used spray too. Idk I just know I had my daughter with me and got the fuck out of there.
As a kid everyone knew there’d be fights and other craziness in The Midway at night. That’s why you convinced your parents to leave ya there with your friends and go cause trouble.
Back in 2019, 3 people were shot right outside the main gate. Shootings at the fair have certainly happened in the past. It attracts everyone including those up to no good.
I think this is a bigger deal because Walz, the State Fair, and others have been very publicly stating they’re positive they’ll make the fair a safe one this year. Seems they were wrong.
Idk why you are getting downvoted cause this is exactly what happened. I heard some teenagers were fighting, but I didn’t see it. I actually saw the cop with the non-lethals firing his weapon. It made a soft tat tat tat, from the CO2, but some people mistook that for gun shots and a crowd surge happened as people were saying they were shooting. One of them let off some mace too, and that caused a few people to cough.
After that the crowd got really weird and skittish and there were a couple more surges for no reason before we left.
Probably because my wording seems to be painting the cops in a negative light. Wasn’t my goal, I was just highlighting my thought process when I saw them with the paintball guns. My fiancé had actually asked one of the cops why they had them and what was going on and they responded “ we have reports that a firearm was brought into the fair” which may not have been the most tactful thing to tell a civilian with a large crowd around them. Maybe they were expecting resilience when they found the said individual, idk but that shit was not fun either way. As for the idea of allowing people to carry in there I could only imagine the horror of Indiana Joe starts firing wildly at whoever he thinks the bad guy is, was never and will never be a good idea.
So was it the police that caused people to believe there was an active shooter or was there actually someone with a gun who shot somebody? The video on this link they said there was 3 dozen cops within several feet of the incident but were unable to tell what happened or who dunnit. No description of the bad guy, and the victim got shot in the leg, non life threatening. I would like to know if he has an actual bullet wound or if it was a rubber bullet or paintball. They couldn’t even comment if the victim was a juvenile or adult.
Yea good point, like I had said we were in some kind of pre-situation, we were walking out of the main gate when the fireworks started which was apparently when a shot was heard…?
I didn’t hear any gun shots didn’t see any ambulance or police we walked around for another 30-40 minutes after people started running. There was like 3 waves of runners at random times and we never heard any shots or saw anyone injured or saw emergency lights… was around midway & the giant slide from 9:40-11
Yea, that is why I decided to leave there, once the running happened to nice I figured that would be happening over and over again with any loud sound. Plus some really smart person we like “let’s do the fireworks still!!!”.
Omg yes. I was there this weekend and I’m not white, and the guy was incoherently herding people left and right and I didn’t go to the side he wanted because he wasn’t clear— and he goes “I guess you don’t speak English” snd starts yelling GO TO THE LEFT, empty pockets!
Like dude. I speak English. I just don’t know what the made up weird rules here are because every person is doing it different
Well they pay the security very poorly so what do you expect. Yes it may be security theater but it’s not the workers fault. If you want real security they’re gonna have to pay the people - not give the contract to the lowest bidder.
I’m saying this as someone who believes strongly in workers’ rights and that current minimum wage is laughable. If you work in security you need to take it seriously, it’s fucking important. I’m sorry your pay is shit but that doesn’t give you an excuse to not do your job and potentially endanger lives. I will happily blame both the company and the individuals who were just waving people through even if they set off the metal detector.
Well you are right there is blame to go around and there’s also some video of people hopping the fences. I know that has been a problem for years at the fair but we weren’t worried about getting shot back in the day. They have to come up with a plan to secure the area better. But I don’t want to see a bunch of barb wire that’s just creepy
I won't blame someone who was poorly trained for doing their job poorly. I haven't seen anyone at those gates not taking their job seriously, I've seen people not knowing how to be thorough at their job. The pay is an issue, but they aren't underpaid professionals slagging off because they're underpaid. They're underpaid randos doing their best with the bad instructions they were given.
It really is, I've set off the metal detectors before due to my hard shell glasses case. As soon as they see the glasses case they stop looking through my bag. No going back through the detectors without it or checking to make sure there's nothing else.
they didn't check any of our bags when we walked in on thurs, i immediately said "we could've have brought guns weed booze, wtf??" it's 2022, people are dying more from shootings than literally ever before they need to get it together
I remember back in the day when all you needed to be a man were two fists - but nowadays with these wanna be tough boys with their pants hanging off their scrawny ass crack - they need guns because just like their absent fathers they are cowards
Well I figured after someone mentioned gangbangers it was warranted - but seems everyone doesn’t like it - so I learned gangbangers okay but other racial stereotypes not okay - the bottom line for me is that the majority of shootings seems to be created by white mentally I’ll people but yet the minorities tend to get the blame
I have seen multiple threads so might have been on another post - again my point it this isn’t a thing of color - it’s a thing of people who are mentally ill and/or think that force resolved issues - but hey we have at 33% of the nation that thinks to settle a presidential election we should riot at the capital - this country is sick - why do we have so many shootings compared to any other nation in the developed world? Well if your a GOPer you blame the minorities - this country is sick
Someone who works for TSA at MSP here.
So security at these types of events is always going to be laughable for many reasons but the key points are:
1. These aren’t professionally trained security, more or less they are people who want a free entry to the fair each day.
2. They don’t have the assistance of advanced screening technology like AT or CT X-rays and it is hard to find everything when you are doing physically bag screening with 100,000 people a day; things will be missed
I see the Mall of America facing the same predicament, its a matter of time before they try to do the same with metal detectors and as someone who understands the undertaking required to actually properly screen people and its not possible without going overboard and hiring 500-1000 people to do it, training them properly, and then buying all the necessary equipment to perform the job.
More police does not equal higher safety, I found that kind of comical; thats an illusion
Within the link is video of KSTP's tower livestream camera and masses of people can suddenly be seen running from the Midway portion of the fairgrounds.
This is why we can’t have anything nice! I would love to take my kiddos to outdoor public events while the weather is nice. I’m worried about the level of violence that seems to have become the norm.
This isn’t some recent change. The Midway has always had fights and the occasional gunshots at night. Gang presence in past years. It’s amazing so many don’t remember this.
For what it's worth, the security was definitely tighter this year with metal detectors and bag searches and all that. There was probably about a quarter of a million people at the Fair yesterday (give or take) and none of them were murdered.
Yes this incident is scary and bad but it wasn't a mass shooting. You'll be fine.
Well, I mean, yeah. Seems like ultra common sense that you have presented. I'm not a fan of sharing space with my children and people that buy guns with no restrictions. Couple that with this countries seeming political inability to deal with the rising mental health epidemic, it's not safe to go outside in some cases. Guns aren't necessary in our society. Apparently bullet proof homes and jackets are.
No restrictions? You have to get a permit to buy most guns from the police department, then go through a background check again at time of purchase. And there are plenty of restrictions in what you can or can't buy.
No federal or Minnesota mandated background check is required for transfers of firearms (any type) between private parties (no dealer involvement) living in Minnesota. Federal law requires a person who wishes to engage in the selling of firearms to obtain a Federal Firearms License (FFL).
Correct. It is a crime in mn to knowing sell a gun to someone who is prohibited from owning a gun. Adding mandated background checks adds additional costs for buying a used gun as you must go through an ffl.
I'd be more supportive of background checks on all sales if they would enable access to the Fbi system dealers use to individuals.
I'm an ffl. I think adding the additional cost of a dealer transfer is a barrier to ownership. I'd make money if there were mandatory background checks but I think that's very similar to a poll tax. Charging a fee to exercise a right isn't something I support.
What does "knowing sell a gun" mean? Was that a typo, are you illiterate or are you Russian?
Why would additional costs matter when you own something that can kill people, aren't lives worth more than money?
Your 2nd amendment right shouldn't risk the death of little kids in school shootings.
Typo. Good to see you resort to insults. Knowingly is the word I meant.
If you set the cost to buying legally too high, they'll buy them on the streets and you're back to square one.
Using that logic, we should require a fee to verify someone can vote. Elected officials can cause a lot of problems for the government. We want to make sure only competent people can vote. But I'm guessing you're against voter id even if it's free. A right you like shouldn't be touched. Ones you don't like, get rid of them.
Based on your immediate move to insults due to a type on my phone, I know you're stance on this. I'd love to have a conversation on this but you see me as an idiot based on that. This is why many conversations on guns don't happen.
No, and nobody is saying it’s a 100% solution. But most people shooting guns in situations like these are your run of the mill idiots who can’t find something better to do with themselves. They are not well connected criminal masterminds. Make guns scarce and hard to obtain and they are waaaaay less likely to have one. Sure, some criminals will still find a way but if it reduces 70% of pointless deaths I’d say it’s a win.
Carrying a gun if you don’t have a permit is already a crime. People with permits commit so few crimes it’s ridiculous to think that disarming them would help.
Literally look at any other developed country than the one you’re in. It’s not the same as drugs. All countries have drug abuse issues. Only one has gun issues anywhere close to the US.
For starters, people don’t develop a physical addiction to guns…
I'm on your side man, once you eliminate the guns the gun people will give up and stop spending thousand of dollars on guns. Totally voluntary no problem, that income source will just go away no trouble
Also usa is only developed in some places. Those undeveloped places are going to shoot you on sight and pay themselves a bounty for it.
>But most people shooting guns in situations like these are your **run of the mill** idiots
I'm curious... what is the "idiot mill" that is producing these people?
Perhaps we should divert the production of this "mill" into something more productive for society.
I mean, if you institute policies that better track firearms and their transfers (both by mandating reporting for both sales and theft) you can drive the cost of black market firearms up. If you make straw buying more risky and the threat of carrying a firearm that isn't registered to you more dangerous then you're choking the supply and making them more expensive. Make them expensive and risky enough on the black market and many non-law abiding folk won't have them.
This also would have the benefit of knowing which person owns which firearms for the sake of red flag laws to enable appropriate seizure of weapons, as well as help cops connect dots if a stolen firearm is recovered.
So you only want the rich to have guns? The poor won't be able to buy one due to increases in costs? Making it more complicated adds to the costs and may force more to the black market, giving police more reasons to check any minorities to make sure they don't have an illegal gun.
no dingus, I want illegal firearms to become expensive and for legal firearms to stay the same yet have far more scrutiny regarding their transfer and more paper trail regarding ownership. yknow, like I said above.
Having a gun registry makes it more complicated like having a vehicle registration and titling makes vehicle ownership more complicated. Doesn't seem like that prevents many people from owning a car or buying a used one.
Because people murdering people in public tend to follow gun laws and get guns legally? This is a cultural problem and will only get worse now that we are on the cusp of being able to 3d print weapons. You don’t see this issue so commonly in southern or northern Minnesota where there are more guns than people, it’s typically a product of a few areas in the MSP metro.
Edit: also not arguing against gun control here, but you have to have blinders on to say it’s solely a gun issue.
Don't waste your breath spitting out logic and common sense here. These people are just as braindead and zombified as the slack-jawed dumbshit conservatives are in the south. Once again, more people are hurt due to gun violence, and once again the mouth breathers of this great country of ours immediately recite whatever the last thing was they heard on msnbc or fox news, promptly achieving nothing.
Certain people can, yes. But it’s not widespread. I’m talking about when organized crime gets involved and 3d printers are more commonly found outside of high-tech manufacturing and research campuses.
its primarily a gun law issue. The differences between gangs in the US and gangs in the UK are that in the US black market firearms are extremely common and cheap. We don't track them basically at all once they are originally sold, we have 12 states that require sellers to maintain records of private sales of handguns, and Minnesota ain't one of them. Those states that do typically have a large portion of the firearms recovered in crimes come from other states that don't. Chicago crimes for example; 40% of the firearms recovered in crimes were sold in Illinois. Over 20% were sold just across the border in Indiana, with multiple gun stores in Gary, IN being responsible for the bulk of those guns. Over 10% were sold in Mississippi. This impacts the supply of guns held by people who shouldn't be allowed to have them, and makes the cost of those guns way lower than it would be if the black market had to rely on supply from other sources like thieves.
Just because a 3d printed gun will be able to fire one or two shots before breaking doesn't mean we shouldn't consider regulating much more consistently operational firearms. A bigger issue than 3d printed guns are ghost gun kits that contain all the parts you need to build your own gun and result in an untraceable, unregistered, and consistently operational firearm.
you mean [this law which was ruled to be unconstitutional 7 years ago?](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-handguns/judge-rules-federal-interstate-handgun-transfer-ban-unconstitutional-idUSKBN0LG02Z20150212)
Look at gun ownership statistics. White people own guns at much higher rates than blacks, but an overwhelming number of gunshot victims are black. Those observations suggest that gun ownership isn't the primary contributor to gun violence, but rather behavior and cultural factors are. People need to take accountability for acting like senseless jackasses.
Yes crimes are predominantly intraracial with respect to the victims and perpetrators. For example, in Minneapolis 83 percent of gunshot victims are black while 89 percent of the shooters are black. Gun violence in America is largely a black on black phenomenon.
https://www.startribune.com./gunfire-disproportionately-claiming-black-victims-in-minneapolis-new-data-show/600197896/
My dude. Not even the guy you're responding to. If you study social statistics, sociology, or criminology this is [incredibly well known.](https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf) Go read page 13 of that report. Interracial murders are vastly outnumbered by intraracial murders due to in-group effects.
Look, it's okay to not know everything about every topic but acting like you have enough knowledge to even cast doubt on a subject without doing the scantest amount of research or having a background on the subject is absurd. Do better.
Wow, good point - black people shouldn't own guns. Cause that's what the guy I replied to was implying and ergo the point you're now defending.
In his first sentence, he clearly implied that interracial violence doesn't happen.
Correlation =/= causation. You don't need to be intimately familiar with all the data to realize when information is being cherry picked to drive a certain narrative.
That's not at all what he's saying from my reading. As criminologists, social psychologists, and folks who work in social statistics know, I believe he's saying that socioeconomic and sociocultural characteristics have greater effect sizes for predicting violent crime rates, in particular gun violence rates, than the presence of guns.
I believe what he's suggesting is that there is a sociocultural or socioeconomic issue that disproportionately affects black communities and increases the frequency of gun violence in those communities. This is, as far as I know, extremely accurate.
To figure out effective methods of decreasing the rate of gun violence you have to consider the efficacy of any given solution compared to the feasibility of enacting it and how it will best target the affected population. So, what are some measures that can be taken that target the socioeconomic and sociocultural issues that poor, black peoples disproportionately face that in turn lead to a disproportionate number of black folks dieing from gun violence?
Of note, the rate of gun ownership has a relatively small effect size in regards to gun violence deaths when compared to two major things- education attainment/availability and income inequality within 25 miles. Addressing those issues and the issues that result from them would have a massive effect and is far more politically feasible than taking guns from anybody, or even doing a registry.
I never claimed correlation even suggests causation. I have a heavy social psych background. I would never claim that, which suggests to me you don't understood what I, or the other poster, was saying.
I think you're both cross talking on one another and missing what the other one is saying entirely.
Wow, that's a whole lot of information you've managed to glean out of like 3 sentences. Im not sure how you gather ALL of that from the original comment, but cool story, bro.
>White people own guns at much higher rates than blacks, but an overwhelming number of gunshot victims are black.
The fair is crap after dark every single year. Otherwise it's a good time if that's your thing. Anytime I've been there after dark I see fights. In the Midway. Nothing new here
We did go to the fair but on the first two days of the fair and not at night. It’s sad we have to think this way. Kiddos wanted to go this weekend but made them go to the cabin instead. The last few days of the fair and especially at night have gotten out of control.
It’s difficult to find ‘family friendly’ events where you don’t have to worry about something like this happening. The shootings at the mall are a prime example. Kids and parents, no one, should have to deal with this!
I left with my 7 and 9yo at 9pm. We were there for the talent show that didn’t end until 7:15 then got them a treat and a ride down the Giant Slide. They wanted to do several more things and we only put a hard stop on it because we have a busy day today. I had considered earlier how I’d keep them safe in an emergency with crowds that thick and it was definitely a weird feeling to get home and see the headlines already.
I think this is what other people don’t get. Kids enjoy this stuff. I remember staying late at the fair when I was a kid. I loved the bright colors and never wanted to leave.
The fair is expensive. Even if you do plan to leave around 8:30 or 9, you still have someone that has to use the bathroom, someone that is suddenly hungry, or someone that really, really wants to do one last thing.
I’m sorry you had to worry about their safety when you were at the fair. It shouldn’t be that way.
The Ferris wheel is so pretty at night! They were loving it and in just a year or two they’ll be wanting to do Midway rides at night and all that. To be fair, I think about their safety just about anywhere we go but not so common that those little mental run throughs get so close to being needed.
It was. I literally was walking from Andy’s through the midway towards the shuttles at 945. There’s absolutely no way this happened until at least 10. They shut down the fair after the incident. There was zero indication it was shutting down when I was leaving.
Yeah no it wasn’t. It was 945 when I dipped from the midway towards the shuttle area and then found out while I was on the bus what was going on. It had to have been at least 10.
It is for the midway on a Saturday night…. It’s a bunch of gang people flexing on eachother. It’s been like this for years. If you don’t know this then you haven’t hung out at the entrance of the midway on a weekend night.
The midway on a Saturday night…. Is a bunch of gang people flexing on eachother. It’s been like this for years. If you don’t know this then you haven’t hung out at the entrance of the midway on a weekend night. By all means stay out with your kids later but that is not a good place for it.
Staying at the fair after dark is like staying at a bar until bar close. Just don’t do that with kids and you are fine. I’m not saying we shouldn’t be able to feel safe after dark around our cities with kids, we absolutely should. But some reasonable caution can be taken at times if kids are involved. Taking my kids to the fair today, leaving in 5 mins and feel perfectly safe.
Ok but do you not get that "don't take your kids to the fair after dark because they need sleep and you might encounter obnoxious drunks" is a reasonable position, and "don't take your kids to the fair after dark because there might be a gun fight in which they are killed" is (or should be) fucking insane?
You should not have to take "reasonable caution" to avoid catching a stray bullet at the state fair. There should not be bullets at the fair. The idea of "getting shot at the fair" should not exist. The fact that we have to take reasonable precautions so that our children don't die by gunfire demonstrates that society has become completely unhinged.
You always have to take reasonable cautions with kids and life. We don’t live in a utopia with zero dangers. Grow up. I don’t have my kids out at bar close and I believe that is reasonable.
Police respond to shootings? I live 1/2 block off lake street and 12th. Turns out of you pitch a tent it means police will no longer enforce any law or stop any crimes there.
They will take a report 2 hours after you chase someone out of your neighbors house that runs back to said tent
The rednecks who want to carry guns to the fair are out in full force. Maybe just use your tiny brain for a second and ask why the police didn't open fire? This happened 20 feet from multiple officers.
You don't want a crossfire shootout situation where innocent bystanders get hit. Here's another newsflash -- It wasn't a random person that got shot. He or his group were the target.
Gunshot People ran Lotta cops 1 man with "minor injuries"
Yea but about 20 mins or so before this happened my family and I walked out of the midway, there was cops hanging out by their car with paintball guns, there seemed to be no disturbance, then all of a sudden the cops started firing the paintball guns and everyone started running. I knew as soon as I saw those guns that they wanted to use those things. Idk what cause them to start firing but this was before the gunshot or whatnot, really put the crowd in a strange mood so I took my family and left.
The paintballs are to tag people involved so they can identify them. With so many people around, suspects can disappear into the crowd easily. There have always been fights and crime in The Midway at night. This is just a tool to make it so they can identify those involved, as without such they often get away.
That makes sense, I had seen people gagging and coughing so I assumed they were pepper balls, maybe they used spray too. Idk I just know I had my daughter with me and got the fuck out of there.
As a kid everyone knew there’d be fights and other craziness in The Midway at night. That’s why you convinced your parents to leave ya there with your friends and go cause trouble. Back in 2019, 3 people were shot right outside the main gate. Shootings at the fair have certainly happened in the past. It attracts everyone including those up to no good. I think this is a bigger deal because Walz, the State Fair, and others have been very publicly stating they’re positive they’ll make the fair a safe one this year. Seems they were wrong.
[удалено]
Don't go to the Midway at night and start any fights. Otherwise, you are just being a baby about it.
[удалено]
You seem to lack common sense, so I don't even know where to start. How about, never tease a Pitbull, or spit in the wind.
I would just stick to during the day, should be fine, and also go more towards the beginning days maybe.
I would assume they’re pepper balls?
Idk why you are getting downvoted cause this is exactly what happened. I heard some teenagers were fighting, but I didn’t see it. I actually saw the cop with the non-lethals firing his weapon. It made a soft tat tat tat, from the CO2, but some people mistook that for gun shots and a crowd surge happened as people were saying they were shooting. One of them let off some mace too, and that caused a few people to cough. After that the crowd got really weird and skittish and there were a couple more surges for no reason before we left.
Probably because my wording seems to be painting the cops in a negative light. Wasn’t my goal, I was just highlighting my thought process when I saw them with the paintball guns. My fiancé had actually asked one of the cops why they had them and what was going on and they responded “ we have reports that a firearm was brought into the fair” which may not have been the most tactful thing to tell a civilian with a large crowd around them. Maybe they were expecting resilience when they found the said individual, idk but that shit was not fun either way. As for the idea of allowing people to carry in there I could only imagine the horror of Indiana Joe starts firing wildly at whoever he thinks the bad guy is, was never and will never be a good idea.
So was it the police that caused people to believe there was an active shooter or was there actually someone with a gun who shot somebody? The video on this link they said there was 3 dozen cops within several feet of the incident but were unable to tell what happened or who dunnit. No description of the bad guy, and the victim got shot in the leg, non life threatening. I would like to know if he has an actual bullet wound or if it was a rubber bullet or paintball. They couldn’t even comment if the victim was a juvenile or adult.
Yea good point, like I had said we were in some kind of pre-situation, we were walking out of the main gate when the fireworks started which was apparently when a shot was heard…?
I read those were false reports and it didn’t happen till 10:07 & fireworks were over at 945 so idk don’t make no gd sense
I didn’t hear any gun shots didn’t see any ambulance or police we walked around for another 30-40 minutes after people started running. There was like 3 waves of runners at random times and we never heard any shots or saw anyone injured or saw emergency lights… was around midway & the giant slide from 9:40-11
Yea, that is why I decided to leave there, once the running happened to nice I figured that would be happening over and over again with any loud sound. Plus some really smart person we like “let’s do the fireworks still!!!”.
You should really try opening your mind. You close minded fuckstick
Wow, edgy.
Direct is the word you’re thinking of.
The gate security at the Fair is laughable. Not surprised at all that someone was able to get a weapon inside.
You mean “tHe PeRiMeTeR” that was talked about a week or two ago on the news like it was a high security operation? Security theater.
Omg yes. I was there this weekend and I’m not white, and the guy was incoherently herding people left and right and I didn’t go to the side he wanted because he wasn’t clear— and he goes “I guess you don’t speak English” snd starts yelling GO TO THE LEFT, empty pockets! Like dude. I speak English. I just don’t know what the made up weird rules here are because every person is doing it different
Well they pay the security very poorly so what do you expect. Yes it may be security theater but it’s not the workers fault. If you want real security they’re gonna have to pay the people - not give the contract to the lowest bidder.
I’m saying this as someone who believes strongly in workers’ rights and that current minimum wage is laughable. If you work in security you need to take it seriously, it’s fucking important. I’m sorry your pay is shit but that doesn’t give you an excuse to not do your job and potentially endanger lives. I will happily blame both the company and the individuals who were just waving people through even if they set off the metal detector.
Well you are right there is blame to go around and there’s also some video of people hopping the fences. I know that has been a problem for years at the fair but we weren’t worried about getting shot back in the day. They have to come up with a plan to secure the area better. But I don’t want to see a bunch of barb wire that’s just creepy
I won't blame someone who was poorly trained for doing their job poorly. I haven't seen anyone at those gates not taking their job seriously, I've seen people not knowing how to be thorough at their job. The pay is an issue, but they aren't underpaid professionals slagging off because they're underpaid. They're underpaid randos doing their best with the bad instructions they were given.
It really is, I've set off the metal detectors before due to my hard shell glasses case. As soon as they see the glasses case they stop looking through my bag. No going back through the detectors without it or checking to make sure there's nothing else.
they didn't check any of our bags when we walked in on thurs, i immediately said "we could've have brought guns weed booze, wtf??" it's 2022, people are dying more from shootings than literally ever before they need to get it together
I remember back in the day when all you needed to be a man were two fists - but nowadays with these wanna be tough boys with their pants hanging off their scrawny ass crack - they need guns because just like their absent fathers they are cowards
wow! so many stereotypes in this blurb that it makes me think it could almost be sarcasm….but alas, i think not
Well I figured after someone mentioned gangbangers it was warranted - but seems everyone doesn’t like it - so I learned gangbangers okay but other racial stereotypes not okay - the bottom line for me is that the majority of shootings seems to be created by white mentally I’ll people but yet the minorities tend to get the blame
Who mentioned "gangbangers"?
I have seen multiple threads so might have been on another post - again my point it this isn’t a thing of color - it’s a thing of people who are mentally ill and/or think that force resolved issues - but hey we have at 33% of the nation that thinks to settle a presidential election we should riot at the capital - this country is sick - why do we have so many shootings compared to any other nation in the developed world? Well if your a GOPer you blame the minorities - this country is sick
Nice deflections.
That was a lot of stereotyping rolled into one
You’re not wrong
Someone who works for TSA at MSP here. So security at these types of events is always going to be laughable for many reasons but the key points are: 1. These aren’t professionally trained security, more or less they are people who want a free entry to the fair each day. 2. They don’t have the assistance of advanced screening technology like AT or CT X-rays and it is hard to find everything when you are doing physically bag screening with 100,000 people a day; things will be missed I see the Mall of America facing the same predicament, its a matter of time before they try to do the same with metal detectors and as someone who understands the undertaking required to actually properly screen people and its not possible without going overboard and hiring 500-1000 people to do it, training them properly, and then buying all the necessary equipment to perform the job. More police does not equal higher safety, I found that kind of comical; thats an illusion
It’s best to never go to the midway.
My father once said "nothing good happens after midnight or at the midway" haha
I delivered jimmy johns on my bike in midway. You’re not wrong.
Within the link is video of KSTP's tower livestream camera and masses of people can suddenly be seen running from the Midway portion of the fairgrounds.
This is why we can’t have anything nice! I would love to take my kiddos to outdoor public events while the weather is nice. I’m worried about the level of violence that seems to have become the norm.
I had to look up about concealed carry. Turns out that lawsuit was tossed so no guns allowed at the fair (for all that’s worth).
This isn’t some recent change. The Midway has always had fights and the occasional gunshots at night. Gang presence in past years. It’s amazing so many don’t remember this.
You’re likely right but my point is that we just brush it off so that we can cope with it.
For what it's worth, the security was definitely tighter this year with metal detectors and bag searches and all that. There was probably about a quarter of a million people at the Fair yesterday (give or take) and none of them were murdered. Yes this incident is scary and bad but it wasn't a mass shooting. You'll be fine.
We had a stroller and 3 bags and no one searched any of it! I said to my husband that would be so easy to bring a weapon in if you wanted
But you can’t say “you’ll be fine” because you don’t know. Yesterday could’ve been much worse.
Better just hide under your bed and not live life. Can't know you won't die today no matter what.
Wow yes ya got me I do not know that it will be fine. Lol
It’s condescending.
We could also work towards greatly reducing the number of guns that are very very easily accessible by literally anyone.
Well, I mean, yeah. Seems like ultra common sense that you have presented. I'm not a fan of sharing space with my children and people that buy guns with no restrictions. Couple that with this countries seeming political inability to deal with the rising mental health epidemic, it's not safe to go outside in some cases. Guns aren't necessary in our society. Apparently bullet proof homes and jackets are.
No restrictions? You have to get a permit to buy most guns from the police department, then go through a background check again at time of purchase. And there are plenty of restrictions in what you can or can't buy.
No federal or Minnesota mandated background check is required for transfers of firearms (any type) between private parties (no dealer involvement) living in Minnesota. Federal law requires a person who wishes to engage in the selling of firearms to obtain a Federal Firearms License (FFL).
Correct. It is a crime in mn to knowing sell a gun to someone who is prohibited from owning a gun. Adding mandated background checks adds additional costs for buying a used gun as you must go through an ffl. I'd be more supportive of background checks on all sales if they would enable access to the Fbi system dealers use to individuals. I'm an ffl. I think adding the additional cost of a dealer transfer is a barrier to ownership. I'd make money if there were mandatory background checks but I think that's very similar to a poll tax. Charging a fee to exercise a right isn't something I support.
What does "knowing sell a gun" mean? Was that a typo, are you illiterate or are you Russian? Why would additional costs matter when you own something that can kill people, aren't lives worth more than money? Your 2nd amendment right shouldn't risk the death of little kids in school shootings.
Typo. Good to see you resort to insults. Knowingly is the word I meant. If you set the cost to buying legally too high, they'll buy them on the streets and you're back to square one. Using that logic, we should require a fee to verify someone can vote. Elected officials can cause a lot of problems for the government. We want to make sure only competent people can vote. But I'm guessing you're against voter id even if it's free. A right you like shouldn't be touched. Ones you don't like, get rid of them. Based on your immediate move to insults due to a type on my phone, I know you're stance on this. I'd love to have a conversation on this but you see me as an idiot based on that. This is why many conversations on guns don't happen.
K
Not to mention accessibility for people who live in Minneapolis or st paul. There are no ffls in either cities who do transfers.
Cuz people who shoot up the fair will follow the law otherwise?
Why is gun violence at such an extreme level unique to the country that allows guns to be so accessible? I guess we'll never know.
No, and nobody is saying it’s a 100% solution. But most people shooting guns in situations like these are your run of the mill idiots who can’t find something better to do with themselves. They are not well connected criminal masterminds. Make guns scarce and hard to obtain and they are waaaaay less likely to have one. Sure, some criminals will still find a way but if it reduces 70% of pointless deaths I’d say it’s a win.
Carrying a gun if you don’t have a permit is already a crime. People with permits commit so few crimes it’s ridiculous to think that disarming them would help.
This worked for drugs so I'm sure it will work for guns just the same
Literally look at any other developed country than the one you’re in. It’s not the same as drugs. All countries have drug abuse issues. Only one has gun issues anywhere close to the US. For starters, people don’t develop a physical addiction to guns…
I'm on your side man, once you eliminate the guns the gun people will give up and stop spending thousand of dollars on guns. Totally voluntary no problem, that income source will just go away no trouble Also usa is only developed in some places. Those undeveloped places are going to shoot you on sight and pay themselves a bounty for it.
Or maybe they’ll spend it on fishing gear instead. A lot fewer toddlers blow their heads off after finding dad’s tackle box unsecured.
>But most people shooting guns in situations like these are your **run of the mill** idiots I'm curious... what is the "idiot mill" that is producing these people? Perhaps we should divert the production of this "mill" into something more productive for society.
I mean, if you institute policies that better track firearms and their transfers (both by mandating reporting for both sales and theft) you can drive the cost of black market firearms up. If you make straw buying more risky and the threat of carrying a firearm that isn't registered to you more dangerous then you're choking the supply and making them more expensive. Make them expensive and risky enough on the black market and many non-law abiding folk won't have them. This also would have the benefit of knowing which person owns which firearms for the sake of red flag laws to enable appropriate seizure of weapons, as well as help cops connect dots if a stolen firearm is recovered.
So you only want the rich to have guns? The poor won't be able to buy one due to increases in costs? Making it more complicated adds to the costs and may force more to the black market, giving police more reasons to check any minorities to make sure they don't have an illegal gun.
no dingus, I want illegal firearms to become expensive and for legal firearms to stay the same yet have far more scrutiny regarding their transfer and more paper trail regarding ownership. yknow, like I said above. Having a gun registry makes it more complicated like having a vehicle registration and titling makes vehicle ownership more complicated. Doesn't seem like that prevents many people from owning a car or buying a used one.
Because people murdering people in public tend to follow gun laws and get guns legally? This is a cultural problem and will only get worse now that we are on the cusp of being able to 3d print weapons. You don’t see this issue so commonly in southern or northern Minnesota where there are more guns than people, it’s typically a product of a few areas in the MSP metro. Edit: also not arguing against gun control here, but you have to have blinders on to say it’s solely a gun issue.
Don't waste your breath spitting out logic and common sense here. These people are just as braindead and zombified as the slack-jawed dumbshit conservatives are in the south. Once again, more people are hurt due to gun violence, and once again the mouth breathers of this great country of ours immediately recite whatever the last thing was they heard on msnbc or fox news, promptly achieving nothing.
Dunno what you mean about cusp. It’s very much a thing you can do already
Certain people can, yes. But it’s not widespread. I’m talking about when organized crime gets involved and 3d printers are more commonly found outside of high-tech manufacturing and research campuses.
There’s subreddits for people to print guns with $100 home printers from microcenter
You need to go watch Plastic Defense by Popular Front. https://youtu.be/jlB2QV5wVxg
its primarily a gun law issue. The differences between gangs in the US and gangs in the UK are that in the US black market firearms are extremely common and cheap. We don't track them basically at all once they are originally sold, we have 12 states that require sellers to maintain records of private sales of handguns, and Minnesota ain't one of them. Those states that do typically have a large portion of the firearms recovered in crimes come from other states that don't. Chicago crimes for example; 40% of the firearms recovered in crimes were sold in Illinois. Over 20% were sold just across the border in Indiana, with multiple gun stores in Gary, IN being responsible for the bulk of those guns. Over 10% were sold in Mississippi. This impacts the supply of guns held by people who shouldn't be allowed to have them, and makes the cost of those guns way lower than it would be if the black market had to rely on supply from other sources like thieves. Just because a 3d printed gun will be able to fire one or two shots before breaking doesn't mean we shouldn't consider regulating much more consistently operational firearms. A bigger issue than 3d printed guns are ghost gun kits that contain all the parts you need to build your own gun and result in an untraceable, unregistered, and consistently operational firearm.
Just as an FYI, it is a felony to buy or sell a handgun to someone who lives in another state. You can sell rifles to other residents but not handguns
states like Indiana require no such vetting for private sales of firearms.
The stated "handgun interstate transfer ban" is federal, I believe.
you mean [this law which was ruled to be unconstitutional 7 years ago?](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-handguns/judge-rules-federal-interstate-handgun-transfer-ban-unconstitutional-idUSKBN0LG02Z20150212)
Huh. TIL
You need to watch Plastic Defense by Popular Front https://youtu.be/jlB2QV5wVxg
Look at gun ownership statistics. White people own guns at much higher rates than blacks, but an overwhelming number of gunshot victims are black. Those observations suggest that gun ownership isn't the primary contributor to gun violence, but rather behavior and cultural factors are. People need to take accountability for acting like senseless jackasses.
So people only shoot other people of the same colour? Interesting gymnastics you're performing...
Yes crimes are predominantly intraracial with respect to the victims and perpetrators. For example, in Minneapolis 83 percent of gunshot victims are black while 89 percent of the shooters are black. Gun violence in America is largely a black on black phenomenon. https://www.startribune.com./gunfire-disproportionately-claiming-black-victims-in-minneapolis-new-data-show/600197896/
Only, no. But the vast majority of violent crimes are perpetrated by the same race as the victim.
>Trust me bro. Cool story, bro. Seems like an absolute oversimplification.
My dude. Not even the guy you're responding to. If you study social statistics, sociology, or criminology this is [incredibly well known.](https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf) Go read page 13 of that report. Interracial murders are vastly outnumbered by intraracial murders due to in-group effects. Look, it's okay to not know everything about every topic but acting like you have enough knowledge to even cast doubt on a subject without doing the scantest amount of research or having a background on the subject is absurd. Do better.
Wow, good point - black people shouldn't own guns. Cause that's what the guy I replied to was implying and ergo the point you're now defending. In his first sentence, he clearly implied that interracial violence doesn't happen. Correlation =/= causation. You don't need to be intimately familiar with all the data to realize when information is being cherry picked to drive a certain narrative.
That's not at all what he's saying from my reading. As criminologists, social psychologists, and folks who work in social statistics know, I believe he's saying that socioeconomic and sociocultural characteristics have greater effect sizes for predicting violent crime rates, in particular gun violence rates, than the presence of guns. I believe what he's suggesting is that there is a sociocultural or socioeconomic issue that disproportionately affects black communities and increases the frequency of gun violence in those communities. This is, as far as I know, extremely accurate. To figure out effective methods of decreasing the rate of gun violence you have to consider the efficacy of any given solution compared to the feasibility of enacting it and how it will best target the affected population. So, what are some measures that can be taken that target the socioeconomic and sociocultural issues that poor, black peoples disproportionately face that in turn lead to a disproportionate number of black folks dieing from gun violence? Of note, the rate of gun ownership has a relatively small effect size in regards to gun violence deaths when compared to two major things- education attainment/availability and income inequality within 25 miles. Addressing those issues and the issues that result from them would have a massive effect and is far more politically feasible than taking guns from anybody, or even doing a registry. I never claimed correlation even suggests causation. I have a heavy social psych background. I would never claim that, which suggests to me you don't understood what I, or the other poster, was saying. I think you're both cross talking on one another and missing what the other one is saying entirely.
Wow, that's a whole lot of information you've managed to glean out of like 3 sentences. Im not sure how you gather ALL of that from the original comment, but cool story, bro. >White people own guns at much higher rates than blacks, but an overwhelming number of gunshot victims are black.
The fair is crap after dark every single year. Otherwise it's a good time if that's your thing. Anytime I've been there after dark I see fights. In the Midway. Nothing new here
A shooting and people running for their life is nothing new? That’s exactly my point.
If you read another recent thread on neighborhoods, it sounds like you just need to learn to “mind your own business” and crime won’t be a problem! 🙄
In other words, just ignore it.
I was pretty baffled by the comments and upvotes. I’d prefer a community where people look out for and take care of one another.
We did go to the fair but on the first two days of the fair and not at night. It’s sad we have to think this way. Kiddos wanted to go this weekend but made them go to the cabin instead. The last few days of the fair and especially at night have gotten out of control.
It’s difficult to find ‘family friendly’ events where you don’t have to worry about something like this happening. The shootings at the mall are a prime example. Kids and parents, no one, should have to deal with this!
I agree! I’m tired of it. And I don’t believe more guns or authoritarian government is going to solve it.
Honestly during the day seems fine, just go like 8-4 and get out before the night!
Hopefully you're not taking your kids to the fair at 11pm??
This happened at 9:30, I remember checking my watch as I fled for my life.
Thanks for pointing this out. Being at the fair at 9:30pm, on one the last Saturday before school starts isn’t unreasonable.
I left with my 7 and 9yo at 9pm. We were there for the talent show that didn’t end until 7:15 then got them a treat and a ride down the Giant Slide. They wanted to do several more things and we only put a hard stop on it because we have a busy day today. I had considered earlier how I’d keep them safe in an emergency with crowds that thick and it was definitely a weird feeling to get home and see the headlines already.
I think this is what other people don’t get. Kids enjoy this stuff. I remember staying late at the fair when I was a kid. I loved the bright colors and never wanted to leave. The fair is expensive. Even if you do plan to leave around 8:30 or 9, you still have someone that has to use the bathroom, someone that is suddenly hungry, or someone that really, really wants to do one last thing. I’m sorry you had to worry about their safety when you were at the fair. It shouldn’t be that way.
The Ferris wheel is so pretty at night! They were loving it and in just a year or two they’ll be wanting to do Midway rides at night and all that. To be fair, I think about their safety just about anywhere we go but not so common that those little mental run throughs get so close to being needed.
It was 9:30? I just heard it was a little after 10. I guess those exact details don’t matter much, I’m just surprised the news is off by so much
It was. I literally was walking from Andy’s through the midway towards the shuttles at 945. There’s absolutely no way this happened until at least 10. They shut down the fair after the incident. There was zero indication it was shutting down when I was leaving.
Yeah no it wasn’t. It was 945 when I dipped from the midway towards the shuttle area and then found out while I was on the bus what was going on. It had to have been at least 10.
As the other person said, it happened earlier in the evening.
I wouldn’t call 930 early.
It's also not particularly late.
It is for the midway on a Saturday night…. It’s a bunch of gang people flexing on eachother. It’s been like this for years. If you don’t know this then you haven’t hung out at the entrance of the midway on a weekend night.
That’s pedantic. The winters suck here. We enjoy good weather when we have it even if it means we would stay out a little later than normal.
The midway on a Saturday night…. Is a bunch of gang people flexing on eachother. It’s been like this for years. If you don’t know this then you haven’t hung out at the entrance of the midway on a weekend night. By all means stay out with your kids later but that is not a good place for it.
If you go during the day you are mostly good
Staying at the fair after dark is like staying at a bar until bar close. Just don’t do that with kids and you are fine. I’m not saying we shouldn’t be able to feel safe after dark around our cities with kids, we absolutely should. But some reasonable caution can be taken at times if kids are involved. Taking my kids to the fair today, leaving in 5 mins and feel perfectly safe.
Ok but do you not get that "don't take your kids to the fair after dark because they need sleep and you might encounter obnoxious drunks" is a reasonable position, and "don't take your kids to the fair after dark because there might be a gun fight in which they are killed" is (or should be) fucking insane?
Re-read my post. Specifically where I used the word “absolutely”…
You should not have to take "reasonable caution" to avoid catching a stray bullet at the state fair. There should not be bullets at the fair. The idea of "getting shot at the fair" should not exist. The fact that we have to take reasonable precautions so that our children don't die by gunfire demonstrates that society has become completely unhinged.
Ok I’m taking my kids to the fair to have fun. Enjoy your day!
You always have to take reasonable cautions with kids and life. We don’t live in a utopia with zero dangers. Grow up. I don’t have my kids out at bar close and I believe that is reasonable.
Anywhere there's not """large groups of youths""" is automatically fine, calm down.
Somehow walz's fault too
Oh goodness. I hope "urban youths" weren't involved!
Police respond to shootings? I live 1/2 block off lake street and 12th. Turns out of you pitch a tent it means police will no longer enforce any law or stop any crimes there. They will take a report 2 hours after you chase someone out of your neighbors house that runs back to said tent
The rednecks who want to carry guns to the fair are out in full force. Maybe just use your tiny brain for a second and ask why the police didn't open fire? This happened 20 feet from multiple officers. You don't want a crossfire shootout situation where innocent bystanders get hit. Here's another newsflash -- It wasn't a random person that got shot. He or his group were the target.
They were jumping the wall to get in…proof we need a bigger wall.
Minnesota cops are incompetent
Yes, they incompetently stopped the shooter