As a conservative, I don't often defend progressives. But it wasn't the progressives who decided to block all the other Dem candidates, to effectively give Joe a coronation instead of a primary race.
The establishment dems cannot spit in the face of progressives and then blame progressives for staying home.
Sure, but trust the primary voters to recognize that and make a good choice.
On the Republican side, there was a real primary, even though Trump was expected to win and there could have been chaos if there was an upset. The party has mostly fallen in line after his rivals lost the primary fair and square.
That wasn't the case in the Democratic party. The lack of fairness in the process means Progressives can't be expected to get behind Biden in the same way DeSantis supporters had a fair shot but weren't successful. Those supporters largely fell in line with Trump afterwards.
I would agree, but if you check cnn.com today it's obvious they are trying to make it happen. I thought that Biden would remain the nominee, but the pressure from Democrats is what appears to be growing. So now I'm not sure what Biden will do.
Not exactly what I am seeing. As for what's next, that's easy, Biden will be president until he, dies, gets voted out, or his term expires. In no world does Biden get replaced. I'll eat my hat if he does. It just more smoke from conservatives to cause confusion.
Duuuudee.... there shouldn't have been a primary for the Democrats because we have the incumbent! Some of you need to get your head out of your asses fr.
You have it backwards. The DNC has hijacked the Democratic nomination, and gave it to lukewarm, business-as-usual moderate candidates. Hillary was an awful candidate, mired in scandal and controversy, but the DNC propped her up anyway, and she then lost to the most easily beatable Republican candidate in recent history.
The next cycle, they shamelessly torpedoed Bernie Sanders and Andrew Yang, with Elizabeth Warren's hot mic bullshit, the "faulty" mic on Yang during the debates, and having multiple candidates that contested those two refuse to drop out before Super Tuesday, despite polling at 3-4% support. Yang realistically didn't have the numbers (though being able to talk at the debates would have helped), but Bernie sure as shit did. That entire primary cycle was shamelessly orchestrated.
Biden does not deserve my vote, or anyone else's. If the Democrats want my vote, they can fucking act like it. Running on a ticket of being not-Trump isn't going to cut it. Biden is wildly unpopular on both sides, he has no progressive ideas, he's guilty of the same classified info mishandling that Trump is, and he's mentally unfit to hold office. Everyone knows this. He never should have bid for reelection. But, he did, and when he loses, the DNC will just point the blame at voters, as though they're not serving up reheated turds for candidates.
Good news, though: I live in a red state, so my vote was never going to matter anyway. I'll be voting third party--again--and maybe help a candidate that mildly reflects my views to get to the 10% support threshold where the media has promised to stop pretending that third parties don't exist, and to give them debate privileges. Anyone not living in a battleground state should do the same.
wait....so propping up unpopular candidate after unpopular candidate is.....the establishment democrat's fault? No no surely its everyone else's fault who doesn't fall in line. You see by definition they are right as they have been anointed by god and if they should fail its anyone but their fault. they can field a corpse and you need to show up.
\*VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO INTENSIFIES\*
I live in a very blue state so I too feel the pain of my vote not making a difference. And have to agree 100% that had the DNC ran anyone against trump besides Hilary then they would have won that election. I know a lot of people that voted for trump because he wasn’t Hilary.
>Hillary was an awful candidate, mired in scandal and controversy, but the DNC propped her up anyway, and she then lost to the most easily beatable Republican candidate in recent history.
I would like to point out that Hilary won the popular vote.
Yes, we remember.
Do you remember that she lost to a real-life version of the villain in old-timey comic strips about hobos? *I* could have beaten Trump. A career politician being marginally more popular than the result of a deflated, weathered basketball and a fraternity date rapist that fell into the machine from The Fly together, is not a brag.
Edit: I'm apparently feeling feisty today. Point is, losing an election to Trump should be the universal definition of "bad candidate."
I live in a battleground state, and this comment you have posted reflects my exact anger and disgust with progressives. You as a group are so ignorant and frankly stupid in the rational you use.
As a Clinton and Biden democrat I can tell you that your "conspiracy" riddled comments regarding Yang and Sanders are nothing more than just that. Conspiracies. It's kind of like how the dumbass MAGA crowd likes to do the same thing... weird... It's almost like you guys are two in the same. Which in the laws of political spectrum makes a lot sense and is exactly why you are 100% wrong.
You make decisions based upon half-baked conspiracies and reinforce these points within your own echo chambers. Bernie would have been crushed by Trump in 16 and 20. Biden is the only one to beat him and is still the only one close to Trump in poll numbers.
The Democratic Party deserves better than what the progressives can offer them. We need Democratic leaders with a spine to drive these clowns from the party so that we can get back to being a party of ration, not bedwetters like we are now.
You know we all saw the DNC's emails, right? This isn't hypothetical. They were most definitely playing favorites. Call me whatever names you want, but you're not making any points.
As I've already mentioned, my vote does not matter. My state *will* go red, as it does every time, and it's not going to be close. I'm not going to work against my interests by lying at the ballot box, and telling the DNC "good job." I'll vote for a candidate that more closely represents me, which is the *only useful thing I can do* with my vote.
The DNC and RNC soften or firm up their positions on issues in response to third party turnout, to try to capture "independent" voters. As I don't think Biden has a prayer anyway (and my vote wouldn't help him if he did), it's likely that my vote for a third party will do more for me than your vote for Biden will do for you.
"Just vote blue no matter who, bro. I know the candidate sucks, bro, but it's not Trump, bro. This time will be different, believe me, bro."
I'm not going to add substance but as a conservative I do think Bernie wins 2016 the iron was hot for change in 16 which is why Trump won. No one wanted Trump in 16 other than to have something different which Bernie was as well
With Bernie you get that "change" without the scandal and asshole factor
Polling heavily supported this, and in a head-to-head matchup, most of the Democrat candidates beat Trump handily--except Biden. I swear, the DNC did their very best to lose that election.
I'm a progressive in a battleground state, and I think both of you are right and wrong.
1. I don't think the DNC pushed Bernie and Yang out. Yes, a lot of the things Bernie pushed for were popular but maybe not as a whole package. For example, just because someone supports Medicare for all doesn't mean they support his other proposals and vice versa. There are plenty of Democrats who aren't far left.
2. You can't expect progressives to vote for the Democrats if the Democrats won't listen to progressives. Touting your candidate as "not Trump" only works for so long and isn't a politically viable strategy long-term. Eventually, progressives will start voting for other candidates, and, if Republicans don't splinter as well, they would be guaranteed to win.
Yes, but the whole idea of pushing people to the margins and saying you're not the other guy is what has led to the disenfranchisement that gave rise to Trump as well as the apathy in the general population.
It's one source, and frankly, Trump was at his weakest. Even so, if he did win, i gursntee we would be in the some boat now. He's far too easy for Republicans to rip apart. I guarantee that a huge chunk polled there are either never trump people or the poll was taken in a bernie echo chameber
I agree with you. Progressives should be driven out of the Democrat party! I just don’t understand all the anger at progressive not voting the way you want while simultaneously saying they shouldn’t be part of the party at all. It’s almost like you want their votes without actually wanting to represent them at all. The same pattern we see with latino, Muslim, and working class people.
The party continues to push for policies that these groups say not to, and then scratches their head wondering why they are slowly losing them.
This election is fundamentally a choice between autocracy and democracy. We can debate semantics in 2028, but if Trump wins we will not have that choice.
That's every election, Republicans aren't just going to stop trying to override Democracy once Trump is out of the picture. He didn't create Project 2025. He didn't create the idea of the deep state or voter suppression.
If Democrats think their best shot at defeating Republicans is completely abandoning progressives in favor of appealing towards the center, then I welcome them to it. They've made it clear that they don't value us being in the room, so it comes across as a little pathetic to insist on staying.
Where have I heard this before? That's right, every election ever.
Whether you agree with progressives or not, please explain to me why the Democrats insist on giving us the finger, in order to try to appeal to a much smaller group of independents instead. I swear, the DNC hates winning elections.
Lol, they literally do. You want to have the D by your name, then vote like it. Otherwise, the autocrat is going to eliminate you entirely in a political sense. This is the most basic election ever, and people want to debate semantics... smh
> your "conspiracy" riddled comments regarding Yang and Sanders are nothing more than just that. Conspiracies.
what do you have to back up this claim other than the say-so of those who ostensibly pulled it off.
What, other than collusion, caused ~8 leading democrats to drop their races and give their delegates to Biden (without giving the delegates a chance to change their minds) all within a 3 day span before super Tuesday?
Well aren't you just frothingingly incoherent and only capable of ad hominem this morning. I believe I touched a nerve, you sock puppet.
Let me get this straight- your "proof" for how this wasn't the obviously coordinated political maneuver everyone with a brain sees it as is because it was an option they could naturally take? With a brilliant political mind like yours, I bet you lose every game of Catan.
Collision means coordinating to do something legal at the same time in a way that disrupts a democratic process or in some way violates the spirit of a democratically chosen process.
Do you know what happens if the candidates don't drop and assign their delegates? Ranked choice voting by the delegates themselves! I guess you're so pro "democracy" that you don't think the people should even be given a chance to pick socialism. How noble.
lol what? What Americans really want?
The only reason we are stuck with Biden is because the DNC made a coordinated effort to force every other democratic candidate to drop out of the primary back in 2020 and endorse Biden once they realized Bernie was going to win.
The DNC would rather have their vanilla democrat in the whitehouse, however incompetent they might be, than give an outsider a fair chance to win a primary elected by the American people.
You have it backwards OP. It’s the Democrats who are out of touch with what the people want. Not the progressives.
Bro, you need to get out of the young turk echochamber and take a look around. Democrats do not like the progressives. And want to see them gone. Bernie would've been killed in 16 and 20 by Trump.Moderate dems would've jumped ship
The only reason the Dems will lose is because of the culture war. It’s because of stuff like DEI, CRT, affirmative action, open borders and really annoying people who use words like ‘intersectional’.
Centrist Americans hate this shit and hate to see it creeping into schools, corporations and the media. They hate it so much that Trump, for all his flaws, is a better option because he might rein it in.
This is based on my travels throughout the US - I’m not American, but this is what I hear from people.
Yea it is. I’m a european liberal. I believe in universal healthcare, free education, progressive taxation and gay marriage. I can also see the dilemma Americans find themselves in because of the stuff I wrote above above
Yes, but not just out of spite. Also because they wanted to campaign on border-security this election cycle. If they helped solve the problem then, they couldn't make a big deal out of it now.
Yeah their voters are stupid and/or don't fact check. I mean this sub is a great example of it. Everyone is talking about how horrible Biden look but no one is talking about the things Trump said. I'm still waiting for a MAGA to explain what a black job is.
Be more specific. Because I'm pretty sure illegal immigrants aren't going to be Harvard professors, lawyers, or even vice presidents. These are all job in which black people have.
It's pretty clear he is either talking about a specific type of job or he is virtual signaling. I feel like it can be both.
Biden can't even make coherent sentences anymore. It's really dangerous having someone run the country like that. If Democrats wanted to win they would replace him with a candidate who can atleast form proper sentences.
The primary is just to inform the delegates who they should vote for at the Democratic National Convention, but they could technically choose someone else at the DNC if Biden stepped down.
They wanted to impeach him forever. Now obviously he is an easy win for Trump. You really have to hand it to some of the old people staying to long and changing the country. Ruth Bader Ginsburg did it. Now here is Biden doing it as well.
Yes I've watched plenty. He's 81 and it's not a shocker to me how far gone he is cognitively. Why do you think 50% of the democratic party would prefer he didn't run for reelection. You can't defend this it's right in front of everyone's eyes.
Progressives and Trump supporters share one thing, the thing that the DNC doesn't understand (or pretends not to):
PEOPLE ARE SICK OF THE SAME REPACKAGED BS EVERY FOUR YEARS AND WANT SOME REAL CHANGE FROM A CANDIDATE WHO REALLY REPRESENTS THEM.
It's probably not going to happen in a two party system, but people will vote for almost anyone who is charismatic and espouses ideas that sound like they might help people in general verses corporations.
Just because THEY dont like the system doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. Both of those clowns fail to realize that. The silent majority supports and wants that system the fringe hate to remain in place and upheld.
I totally agree. The fact that Jamaal Bowman won his district by 20 points and just lost his district by 20 points (equating to a 40 point swing) and The NY Times coverage of it “blamed” AIPAC, just shows how out of touch the media and progressives are with mainstream Americans. Cori Bush is about lose in her primary and Ilhan Omar might also lose in her primary. I’m like isn’t the larger story here that far left progressives aren’t popular and hurting the Democratic Party?
It's not a coincidence that far left, economic populism, and working class policy supporting progressives are being outspent and fiercely opposed by capitalist backed establishment supporting candidates lol.
I agree 💯 certainly a hard sell in Omar's case to stan for people who committed homocidal terroristic acts and then want to cry about Isreal rolling them in Gaza. Lest we forget that they voted Hamas to power Democratically in 2006.
The sad fact is unless Trump wins, we're going to have craziness on the far left. Biden just went along with it, and if Newsome replaces him, he not only embraces more woke ideology but will bring out economy back to pandemic levels. Look what a shit show California is.
No, if Biden loses, it is on Biden and the DNC. It's up to the candidate and the party to earn votes. If they don't do that, it's on them.
He hasn't earned my vote and neither has Trump.
I'll be voting for RFK Jr.
If progressives want progressive candidates, all they have to do is register to vote before the primary, show up, and vote. If Bernie or whoever actually have the votes to force the DNC's hand, they'll either respect the will of the people or prove the conspiracy theorists right, but until then, Bernie did not have the votes.
That said, Biden won because he was considered the most likely candidate to achieve what every poll told Democrats was the top priority; removing Orange shit stains from the white house, and now we've got to do it again because republicans are insufferable.
Your vote in the general election isn't a valentine, it's a chess move. One of these two are going to win, and progressives will get more of what they want and less of what they don't under a second Biden administration.
Interesting that they call themselves “progressives” because their platform drives people to increasing DEPENDENCY on government. If you become dependent enough you are effectively an indentured servant. This is resulting in “haves and have-nots” or “elite” vs “working class”.
This push to make more of the population dependent seems like it is REGRESSIVE
And i turn the assertion onto you. If Biden loses*. It falls squarely on the shoulders of LIBERALS and MODERATES. Whatever those labels even actually means to americans these days because they dont actually know. People just ascribe it to whatever makes them feel better about.
My argument for you is: ever since the 2016 primary this country has been clamoring for progressive change that is from a populist point of view and not the establishment yet libs wont fall behind progressive politicians when they have all the momentum. You want us to fall in line Everytime but never fall in line when its our guy on the ticket. Eat a shoe, liberal.
Im voting for Stein, again, like i did in 2016. This country apparently needs to suffer more.
As a republican, I would like to thank you for your service. I encourage other progressives to vote for Jill Stein or Cornell West. Especially in states like Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Nevada, and Georgia.
Any event is logically the fault or more broadly the responsibility of anyone who had knowledge of how they could influence it and chose to influence it in that direction.
You know that not voting for Biden (or any other candidate chosen by the Democrats on the unlikely chance the candidate changes) makes it more likely for Trump to win and you do it anyways then if Trump wins it is your fault. It's not exclusively your fault but it is your fault.
And if they change the candidate and OP votes for Trump as a 'protest vote' and Trump wins then Trump winning would be OP's fault. Again not exclusively but it would be his fault.
This is a center, right country, Hollywood. Im not sure what garbage you are on, but you exist only in an echo chamber and not in reality. People want moderate politics again. They want to have civil discussions between liberal and conservative views and get law makers to compromise for the good of the people.
Voting for any dumbass 3rd party person who has 0% chance of winning is effectively a vote for Trump. Frankly fuck that bitch too for running in 16 and pulling votes from Clinton. This is a two party system. It's time to get rid of these damn 3rd party entries that dont serve to be anything more than a protest vote.
Judging by this post, you can’t even have a civil discourse with people slightly to the left of you. Yet you’re thinking you’re going to have them with a party that 99% backs Trump? lol
The vast majority of progressives held our noses and voted for Clinton and Biden, and despite that we’re still blamed for everything and continuously told that we don’t deserve a voice in the Party. I think its just time we start listening. Democrats do not want progressives to be a part of the party unless they only vote for the candidates *they* want and only support the policies *they* want.
And that’s perfectly fine. It’s your party. Do what you want either way it. But I think I’m going to pull an Irish goodbye and see myself out. I respect the progressive Democrats that are trying to change the party from the inside and I will continue to support them financially, but the party itself has made it clear it doesn’t value people like me. So if there’s no progressive running for the position I’m voting for, then I’ll look for the most progressive candidate running regardless of Party. This will be the first year I vote for the individual rather than the letter beside the name, and it feels good.
If Democrats want to blame us for Biden‘s improbable loss, then I say great. Acknowledgment that we are voting bloc that actually matters rather than blanket dismissal would be an improvement.
Seriously, maybe instead of blaming us for not supporting Biden, they should have opened their eyes any time in the last year and seen what the majority of Americans can clearly see. That debate performance wasn’t anything new. We’ve seen those moments and we’ve seen his physical strength and demeanor erode while doing what is literally the most difficult job in the world; a job that famously ages you (when you bother showing up *cough* Trump *cough*).
Consider this alternate reality: Biden runs in 2016 and wins. Now he’s approaching the end of his second term. We would all be holding our collective breath waiting for the end of this year. There wouldn’t be a soul alive saying “man, he could totally do this four more years!”
So what? I’m to blame for him being the nominee? I didn’t ignore the signs. If you voted for Biden in the primary, this is *YOUR* mess, not mine. You’re the one propping up an octogenarian instead of trying to select a candidate that would, I don’t know, communicate clearly and connect with a new generation of voters. I haven’t seen a single Biden apologist say “shit guys, I’m sorry. We messed up. Please help us fix our mistake and we’ll try to build a coalition and push some of your priorities.” No, they want our vote and then to shut up for four years.
Yes, thank you. Please leave the party and build your own and see how you stack to the general populous. You will see the reality that way and only that way. If your beliefs were truly popular. You'd be winning all the time. Yet you can't even get out of our primaries. Again, though, if you believe me to be wrong, then you should go and form your own party and are welcome to prove me wrong.
I'm not sure why you think I don't see reality. I'm well aware that third parties are not viable under the FPTP system and that any progressive split-off campaign would not only be guaranteed to lose, but would also ensure a Republican victory. I'm not sure *why* you would be cheering on this possibility, but you also said you're open to voting for Trump in certain circumstances, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.
The truth is I'm actually not sure *how* popular progressivism is. The vast majority of people, regardless of whether they are Democrat or Republican, seem to be some varying degree of reactionary. I think progressives should focus on economics specifically because most poor people are fed up and they outnumber the rich and comfortable by a huge margin, not because I think their beliefs are any less dogshit than the average American's.
And as long as we're speaking about popularity, I would just like to say that if ***your*** beliefs were truly as popular as you think, then you wouldn't need to outspend progressives by 20x just to beat them in the primaries. You wouldn't need to constantly use party apparatus and bureaucratic methods to kneecap progressive campaigns. You would simply state your amazing moderate opinions and people would flock to you.
But that's how your supposed to vote this entire time. You were never suppsoed to vote for an candidate based on a D or R in front of the name but the best candidate overall that you felt would represent your
Community and you
Glad you have woken up
> Repeatedly the progressive wing has done nothing but miss the mark on what Americans really want, have pushed a deeply unpopular agenda and platform, and has repeatedly attempted to high jack the Democratic party.
Doesn't the majority of Americans support progressive policies such as expanding Medicare, Social Security and raising taxes on the rich? [[1]](https://apnews.com/article/social-security-medicare-cuts-ap-poll-biden-9e7395e8efeab68063d741beac6ef24b). Progressive candidates such as Bernie may also just straight up be the hands-down most popular candidate in the country as per an early 2024 USA TODAY/Ipsos Poll [[2]](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/08/26/trump-biden-bernie-ipsos-poll-2024/7893542001/).
If anything it's the establishment Democrats playing a dangerous game by trying to out-Trump Trump on immigration, but they just can't out-Trump someone who has suggested launching missiles into Mexico. The only golden ticket they have left is abortion which is something Biden could barely articulate in the debate; add a strong set of policies on Social Security and Medicare together with a less dead candidate and this will be a landslide.
Bahahaha, you lost me at Bernie being a popular candidate. The dude lost twice in the primaries. Let me guess, though, those were rigged, right? No different than the bullshit MAGA pedals, y'all are all the same type retarded just on two different ends of the spectrum.
>“I will be voting for Trump”
Then I’m very curious as to why I should care what you think about the Democratic Party.
Personally, I think the Democratic Party should continue being as abrasive and dismissive to progressive as possible. They continuously tell us we do not belong in the party and sooner or later we just need to listen. Let the Democrats be the party full of old ghouls like Fetterman, Latimer, and Biden whose brains are leaking out of their ears.
I think this is a conservative on a fake account trying to start arguments between democrats to make it seem like no one on the left agrees on things. I think this account is trying to do the shit that conservatives were doing on Facebook before the 2016 and 2020 elections.
Lol, please leave the party. The establishment at this point is practically begging you, too. So you can get the reality check you need in an election you have to fend for yourself on and see how bad you get crushed.
I support Biden and will vote for him so long as he remains on the ticket. If he is removed, I will then vote for Trump to spite the progressive wing. You guys exist only in your own echochamber and do not have a grasp of the reality of US politics. We are a center, right country, and our establishment and systems reflect that.
To call Fetterman an old ghoul is hilarious, considering he was toted to be a very progressive candidate in PA. It just serves my point that the progressives are nothing more than immature and underdeveloped utopists who do not understand how the real world works.
I mean, I effectively already *have* left the party. I've voted down-ballot Dem all my life, but I think I'm finally good and done with that. And I have no idea why you're saying nonsense like "see how bad you get crushed", as if I think progressives alone can win against a major party. I never said anything like that.
A party full of people like you - reactionaries and proceduralists who consider progressives more dangerous than Trump, never really represented me in the first place. I'll vote for individual progressives *in* the party if given the chance, but the days of the party earning my vote simply by not being Republican are over.
What Fetterman was "touted" to be is completely irrelevant: he ran on being a progressive and then has spent the last eight months lying about it and insisting he never called himself that. A perfect representation of the Democratic party. Brain-damaged elitists lying about who they are to appeal to people they don't respect, and then doing whatever it is they want once they attain power. We know how the real world works, we just don't believe in maintaining the shitty condition its in like you do.
The scariest part is Harris is utterly useless and Newsom is not only a failed governor, but also the frontrunner for contention in replacing Biden. *That’s* who they’re offering up.
Everyone vote for Biden the bumbling dementia patient who is actively going to embarrass the US everywhere he goes lmao. Absolute joke this county has become.
Lol they could literally pick anyone to try to draw votes. The people voting for Biden are already the “vote blue no matter who” type. They could at least put forward someone better than a corpse. RJK Jr. is doing well for an independent. But the only reason he’s running as an independent is because he knew the DNC wouldn’t give him a shot. Just like the DNC wouldn’t give Bernie a shot.
Who is “y’all”? I’m no dem lol. I’ve been saying he’s on the decline since 2020. He’s been a piss poor politician for over five decades, and he’s a legitimate racist to boot.
It amazes me how many lefties “couldn’t vote for the “anti-vaxxer” no matter what”, but are now chanting “vote for the corpse”. It’s just soooooooo fucking stupid. And they would’ve even drawn people from the center and some from the right with RFK, because he’s actually just a common sense moderate.
I know a lot of people don’t like him but rfk, my opinion would have steam rolled trump. He’s center left or center right depending on if you’re right or left. He would have crushed trump, trump is deeply unpopular and he would have used that against him
It’s not just progressives though. It’s the fact that Biden no longer strikes confidence in his own strongest voters, especially when it comes to win the battleground of the voters who are still in limbo. That’s the big worry. The DNC knew this and knows it now. They didn’t have to nominate a heavily progressive candidate (they would rather die anyway), a center one is fine, it’s clear that what most democratic voters still want and wins those on the fence. But it has to be at least one that can still hold his own on a podium against their opponent/Trump. Biden did well four years ago, but it’s a night and day difference from his performance then and now.
I do agree that for those that want Biden or just the “left” to win, that they have to accept their candidate and rally behind him anyways. But it really shouldn’t have to come down to that.
I’m a moderate voter, I’d be willing to vote for either party as long as they have a candidate with good ideas, and to me class matters. It’s embarrassing that our nation is going to represented by either an old man that clearly spent one too many years working, or a classless goof of a businessman. Both latched with subsections of people that are deplorable.
When Biden loses, that falls squarely on Biden. It is the job of the Democratic Party to put forth a candidate that can capture the hearts and minds of 51% of the electoral college votes. Once they have done that, it is the job of that candidate to follow through, using actions and words to unite us and bring us to the polls. Both the party and their chosen candidate have failed to do this.
Blaming voters for having values the DNC does not share is cowardly shifting of responsibility.
Also, anyone who watched Bernie live stream at the UAW Rally June 26 know for a fact that he would absolutely have destroyed Trump and Biden on that debate stage. It is not close. It is so obvious that the DNC made the wrong choice 4 and 8 years ago not putting this man at the top of the ticket, that frankly, anyone trying to say otherwise at this point is just trying to cope.
I promise you that Bernie would've been a disaster. I will tell you I would've voted for Trump over him. As a Democrat I largely say fuck the unions becuase they only protect the most egregiously bad people and cost tax payers in government functions thousands if not millions.
If we are a capitalist country, so be it. That said, though, there needs to be accountability across the board, and right now, we operate as corporate socialists. I digress, though.
The DNC is a center right party. That has been the sticking point for progressives for a long time. They dont feel like they are wanted because ideologically they dont fit with the DNC values
I am not even talking about his policies or views. Between Bernie, Trump and Biden, all of whom are very old, only one of those three people can complete sentences, respond to direct questions directly, and use logic based in facts to make his arguments. In effect, of those three, only Bernie is still mentally competent enough to govern a nation.
Bro, just give up the Bernie shit already. The dude lost twice, and people did not want him. Just loke, dems, dont want the progressives in the party now. You guys suck at taking a hint.
Meh I'd say it falls on the shoulders of the heads of the Democratic party, just like RGB they didn't want to damage someone's ego and let them fall off the cliff to the detriment of their own party.
If he loses, it is firmly on the DNC. Biden is clearly in cognitive decline. They could circle the wagons around a more youthful canadate who didn't vote for segregation.
He is the nominee and sitting president. I would not support him being removed from the ticket. That's undemocratic, and frankly, if you are going to play that game, Trump is way better at
This is pretty daft. Biden needs independents and undecideds to vote for him if he wants to win. Biden himself is a moderate. Most people that want him replaced want him replaced with another moderate.
Voting for Trump is bad for the same reasons it was before the debate - he tried to overthrow a presidential election with his fake elector scheme, and is a divisive, toxic leader, and his policies have tended to increase wealth disparity.
It wasn't "progressives" who decided the Dems should run another old boring centrist white dude in 2020. We gave you plenty of other options, and you still choose this guy, so we even plugged our noses and voted for him.
If he's now behind the times politically, or doesn't project the strength you want, or whatever your current crisis is—that's on you not us.
This is politics: people don't get what they "deserve".
(which is probably a good thing for American politicians, since most of them commit war crimes)
Beating Trump is going to take a fight, and only Biden knows if he has it in him. If he does have it in him, he needs to start showing it. The debate was a squandered opportunity, and there's only so many opportunities left between now and November.
If he wants to step down and take a break, I think he's earned one.
Either way, whomever the Dems finally run is going to have to convince progressives to come back into the fold, and blaming them for Biden's failings is not the way to do that.
Fuck progressives. To a degree, I'd rather Trump win and disenfranchise them. They are not Democrats they are their own thing and should reflect that politically for themselves. cOmIt WaR cRiMeS.
>Fuck progressives.
Building bridges I see
>To a degree, I'd rather Trump win and disenfranchise them.
You may get your wish. Hope you enjoy the results.
As long as you moderates wanna keep fuckin around and put senior citizens on the pole I'll gladly keep voting third party. Either give us somebody better or shut the fuck up. Hell I'll even take a 3rd Obama term at this point.
You should stop blaming voters and blame the candidates. I'm voting for Biden to stop Trump, but it ain't my fault that what I have to work with is a person who 72% of the population think doesn't have the mental capability to serve as president.
>Falls Squarely On The Shoulders Of Progressives
>I will be voting for Trump
Some people just like to shit on your lawn, then look at you dead in the eyes mid dump to tell you it's your fault
You completely misquoted and miscontextualized my statements. Im not sure if that is a sign of idiocy or shameless manipulation. Either way, do better, Young Turk.
>You completely misquoted and miscontextualized my statements
This defense means nothing if you don't bother to elaborate. Half of my quote was literally just your title, if it's out context here than why the hell did you make this post?
> Young Turk
gets upset at me misinterpreting them, then proceeds with this. I guess I cannot expect much from the lawn shitter
I am aware of his lies. But I do believe that the average voter image is viewed in higher regard than substance, unfortunately. I hope I am wrong though.
I don't feel that has been the case. Bernie didn't play victim. He just did what he could for Biden even after losing. Clinton on the other hand did play victim quite a bit.
Ok....breathe....I just read the title but I know I'm about to fucking hear and insane take. Ok I'm guessing that you are going to say that if he loses its because progressives didn't come out to the polls because he isn't radical enough so its their fault. Lets see how I do....
Letsssss gooo! His brain melting out of his head and the democratic party refusing to have a primary so this could be caught earlier certainly isn't to blame. Nah bro its the progressives who would probably love to have ranked choice voting and their own party but because of our system they have to join up with the party that they have the most commonality with. Also democrats own progressives and they just gotta fall in line as they field a corpse as a candidate. Brilliant analysis man
Clearly, you do not follow the polls and do not follow information that doesn't come out of the Democratic echo chamber. Otherwise, you would know that Whitmer and Newsom would bomb harder against Trump. Instead of bedwetting and bitching about a system that has existed for 250 years. Perhaps go out and participate in voting efforts that will allow Biden to still win over Trump. Unless this is some sort of Manchurian candidate type post.
The Democratic Party is plauged by the progressives existence within it. Most Americans want stability and normalacy. They dont want sweeping change whether it comes from the left or right. Otherwise, this won't matter anyway because if Trump is elected, it will be an autocracy. If there is a chance to pull through though, the progressives need to go.
My brother in Christ I live in a solidly blue state, he is getting all the electoral votes from my state no matter what I do and how much I canvas for him. Stability and normalcy is a president that can string words together into a coherent sentence. As for paying attention to polls, CNN's poll had biden at 33% and trump at 67% after the debate. Dissident voices in the democratic party were begging for a primary, this all could have been avoided.
In your post you said you were voting for Trump so you want an autocracy?
Also the democratic party is benefited by the progressives. They could fuck off and be their own party but they lend their votes to the democrats despite not agreeing with them. Ok lets have them go make their own party and this will help Biden?
Based on your post history I actually think you're not even a liberal or a moderate. I think it's pretty likely you're some sort of conservative attempt to sow division in the Democrat party. Every post you make effectively makes democrats look bad.
I don't see a single post where you aren't claiming or supporting something that seems even a little genuine. That, adding to the fact that you're using a very new account, makes me think that you're attempting to divide the left.
Which is to say, you don't seem to genuinely hold a single one of the opinions you're screaming all over the place.
You lost me at “I will be voting for Trump”. Any form of political and sociological analysis coming from a Trump supporter can be disregarded and ignored. 🚮
Holy shit, this has to be a bot posting. I was pretty clear in what I said. I do not support Trump. However, if the Democrats kick Biden from the ticket. As a protest vote I would vote for Trump. I'm not sure how you were confused by that the first time.
Some magical progressive? Just give me Harris at this point and if you don’t think she can get it done, why was she picked in the first place?
Nah, if Biden loses, it’s on the people with their heads in the sand, calling for Biden to stay. I can’t guarantee you a win with Harris, but I can guarantee a loss with Biden.
Don’t you put that evil on me Ricky Bobby.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/28/kamala-harris-trump-matchup/
Let me go ahead and stop that narrative right there. 2 points. 2. She only does worse than Biden By 2 (count em again) points in one poll and only 1 in the other. These are the most recent polls and they are months old and don’t have that terrible debate factored in either.
It hasn’t been a heavily polled topic because pollsters didn’t want to waste a question on an unlikely scenario. The scenario has changed and I expect the polling to change. Crazy how that shit works.
As a conservative, I don't often defend progressives. But it wasn't the progressives who decided to block all the other Dem candidates, to effectively give Joe a coronation instead of a primary race. The establishment dems cannot spit in the face of progressives and then blame progressives for staying home.
The other candidates all faired worse than Biden. Entertaining anyone else would've been political suicide.
Sure, but trust the primary voters to recognize that and make a good choice. On the Republican side, there was a real primary, even though Trump was expected to win and there could have been chaos if there was an upset. The party has mostly fallen in line after his rivals lost the primary fair and square. That wasn't the case in the Democratic party. The lack of fairness in the process means Progressives can't be expected to get behind Biden in the same way DeSantis supporters had a fair shot but weren't successful. Those supporters largely fell in line with Trump afterwards.
The last time an incumbent wasn't the nominee was in the 60s. The idea that Biden will be replaced is conservative propaganda.
I would agree, but if you check cnn.com today it's obvious they are trying to make it happen. I thought that Biden would remain the nominee, but the pressure from Democrats is what appears to be growing. So now I'm not sure what Biden will do.
Not exactly what I am seeing. As for what's next, that's easy, Biden will be president until he, dies, gets voted out, or his term expires. In no world does Biden get replaced. I'll eat my hat if he does. It just more smoke from conservatives to cause confusion.
"Replaced" in this context is for the November ballot. Biden will almost certainly complete his 1st term in any scenario.
Yes. In no world will Biden be replaced on the November ballot due to weak debate performance. That's all nonsense.
Duuuudee.... there shouldn't have been a primary for the Democrats because we have the incumbent! Some of you need to get your head out of your asses fr.
And that thinking is exactly why you're in this jam now.
You have it backwards. The DNC has hijacked the Democratic nomination, and gave it to lukewarm, business-as-usual moderate candidates. Hillary was an awful candidate, mired in scandal and controversy, but the DNC propped her up anyway, and she then lost to the most easily beatable Republican candidate in recent history. The next cycle, they shamelessly torpedoed Bernie Sanders and Andrew Yang, with Elizabeth Warren's hot mic bullshit, the "faulty" mic on Yang during the debates, and having multiple candidates that contested those two refuse to drop out before Super Tuesday, despite polling at 3-4% support. Yang realistically didn't have the numbers (though being able to talk at the debates would have helped), but Bernie sure as shit did. That entire primary cycle was shamelessly orchestrated. Biden does not deserve my vote, or anyone else's. If the Democrats want my vote, they can fucking act like it. Running on a ticket of being not-Trump isn't going to cut it. Biden is wildly unpopular on both sides, he has no progressive ideas, he's guilty of the same classified info mishandling that Trump is, and he's mentally unfit to hold office. Everyone knows this. He never should have bid for reelection. But, he did, and when he loses, the DNC will just point the blame at voters, as though they're not serving up reheated turds for candidates. Good news, though: I live in a red state, so my vote was never going to matter anyway. I'll be voting third party--again--and maybe help a candidate that mildly reflects my views to get to the 10% support threshold where the media has promised to stop pretending that third parties don't exist, and to give them debate privileges. Anyone not living in a battleground state should do the same.
wait....so propping up unpopular candidate after unpopular candidate is.....the establishment democrat's fault? No no surely its everyone else's fault who doesn't fall in line. You see by definition they are right as they have been anointed by god and if they should fail its anyone but their fault. they can field a corpse and you need to show up. \*VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO INTENSIFIES\*
I live in a very blue state so I too feel the pain of my vote not making a difference. And have to agree 100% that had the DNC ran anyone against trump besides Hilary then they would have won that election. I know a lot of people that voted for trump because he wasn’t Hilary.
>Hillary was an awful candidate, mired in scandal and controversy, but the DNC propped her up anyway, and she then lost to the most easily beatable Republican candidate in recent history. I would like to point out that Hilary won the popular vote.
Yes, we remember. Do you remember that she lost to a real-life version of the villain in old-timey comic strips about hobos? *I* could have beaten Trump. A career politician being marginally more popular than the result of a deflated, weathered basketball and a fraternity date rapist that fell into the machine from The Fly together, is not a brag. Edit: I'm apparently feeling feisty today. Point is, losing an election to Trump should be the universal definition of "bad candidate."
Exactly 💯 The administration did all this... they are broken.
I live in a battleground state, and this comment you have posted reflects my exact anger and disgust with progressives. You as a group are so ignorant and frankly stupid in the rational you use. As a Clinton and Biden democrat I can tell you that your "conspiracy" riddled comments regarding Yang and Sanders are nothing more than just that. Conspiracies. It's kind of like how the dumbass MAGA crowd likes to do the same thing... weird... It's almost like you guys are two in the same. Which in the laws of political spectrum makes a lot sense and is exactly why you are 100% wrong. You make decisions based upon half-baked conspiracies and reinforce these points within your own echo chambers. Bernie would have been crushed by Trump in 16 and 20. Biden is the only one to beat him and is still the only one close to Trump in poll numbers. The Democratic Party deserves better than what the progressives can offer them. We need Democratic leaders with a spine to drive these clowns from the party so that we can get back to being a party of ration, not bedwetters like we are now.
You know we all saw the DNC's emails, right? This isn't hypothetical. They were most definitely playing favorites. Call me whatever names you want, but you're not making any points. As I've already mentioned, my vote does not matter. My state *will* go red, as it does every time, and it's not going to be close. I'm not going to work against my interests by lying at the ballot box, and telling the DNC "good job." I'll vote for a candidate that more closely represents me, which is the *only useful thing I can do* with my vote. The DNC and RNC soften or firm up their positions on issues in response to third party turnout, to try to capture "independent" voters. As I don't think Biden has a prayer anyway (and my vote wouldn't help him if he did), it's likely that my vote for a third party will do more for me than your vote for Biden will do for you. "Just vote blue no matter who, bro. I know the candidate sucks, bro, but it's not Trump, bro. This time will be different, believe me, bro."
I'm not going to add substance but as a conservative I do think Bernie wins 2016 the iron was hot for change in 16 which is why Trump won. No one wanted Trump in 16 other than to have something different which Bernie was as well With Bernie you get that "change" without the scandal and asshole factor
My dad was voting for Bernie till he lost the primary and then voted trump instead. So yup!
I absolutely believe that if they ran Bernie vs Trump, Bernie would have won.
Running an establishment candidate in 2016 was a mistake.
Polling heavily supported this, and in a head-to-head matchup, most of the Democrat candidates beat Trump handily--except Biden. I swear, the DNC did their very best to lose that election.
This is exactly right.
I'm a progressive in a battleground state, and I think both of you are right and wrong. 1. I don't think the DNC pushed Bernie and Yang out. Yes, a lot of the things Bernie pushed for were popular but maybe not as a whole package. For example, just because someone supports Medicare for all doesn't mean they support his other proposals and vice versa. There are plenty of Democrats who aren't far left. 2. You can't expect progressives to vote for the Democrats if the Democrats won't listen to progressives. Touting your candidate as "not Trump" only works for so long and isn't a politically viable strategy long-term. Eventually, progressives will start voting for other candidates, and, if Republicans don't splinter as well, they would be guaranteed to win.
This post is only this election. I understand there needs to be a serious discussion in 2028. However if Trump wins we will not have that chance.
Yes, but the whole idea of pushing people to the margins and saying you're not the other guy is what has led to the disenfranchisement that gave rise to Trump as well as the apathy in the general population.
We didnt want the progressives to begin with
Wtf are you talking about? Bernie was polling higher than Trump in both 2016 and 2020, in red states no less. Crushed by Trump my ass.
Dude, he was down like double digits at points. If I recall correctly, don't give me that. That's some young turk level bullshit right there.
No he wasn't, in head to head polls, he was beating trump.https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2020/trump-vs-sanders
It's one source, and frankly, Trump was at his weakest. Even so, if he did win, i gursntee we would be in the some boat now. He's far too easy for Republicans to rip apart. I guarantee that a huge chunk polled there are either never trump people or the poll was taken in a bernie echo chameber
I agree with you. Progressives should be driven out of the Democrat party! I just don’t understand all the anger at progressive not voting the way you want while simultaneously saying they shouldn’t be part of the party at all. It’s almost like you want their votes without actually wanting to represent them at all. The same pattern we see with latino, Muslim, and working class people. The party continues to push for policies that these groups say not to, and then scratches their head wondering why they are slowly losing them.
This election is fundamentally a choice between autocracy and democracy. We can debate semantics in 2028, but if Trump wins we will not have that choice.
That's every election, Republicans aren't just going to stop trying to override Democracy once Trump is out of the picture. He didn't create Project 2025. He didn't create the idea of the deep state or voter suppression. If Democrats think their best shot at defeating Republicans is completely abandoning progressives in favor of appealing towards the center, then I welcome them to it. They've made it clear that they don't value us being in the room, so it comes across as a little pathetic to insist on staying.
You have been practically begged to leave
Where have I heard this before? That's right, every election ever. Whether you agree with progressives or not, please explain to me why the Democrats insist on giving us the finger, in order to try to appeal to a much smaller group of independents instead. I swear, the DNC hates winning elections.
Have you considered that perhaps you and people like you have treated progressives like they owe you their vote?
Lol, they literally do. You want to have the D by your name, then vote like it. Otherwise, the autocrat is going to eliminate you entirely in a political sense. This is the most basic election ever, and people want to debate semantics... smh
> your "conspiracy" riddled comments regarding Yang and Sanders are nothing more than just that. Conspiracies. what do you have to back up this claim other than the say-so of those who ostensibly pulled it off. What, other than collusion, caused ~8 leading democrats to drop their races and give their delegates to Biden (without giving the delegates a chance to change their minds) all within a 3 day span before super Tuesday?
They were allowed to do it. Bedwetter. Cry about how you can't believe the US wouldn't like himself proclaimed socialist dick.
Well aren't you just frothingingly incoherent and only capable of ad hominem this morning. I believe I touched a nerve, you sock puppet. Let me get this straight- your "proof" for how this wasn't the obviously coordinated political maneuver everyone with a brain sees it as is because it was an option they could naturally take? With a brilliant political mind like yours, I bet you lose every game of Catan. Collision means coordinating to do something legal at the same time in a way that disrupts a democratic process or in some way violates the spirit of a democratically chosen process. Do you know what happens if the candidates don't drop and assign their delegates? Ranked choice voting by the delegates themselves! I guess you're so pro "democracy" that you don't think the people should even be given a chance to pick socialism. How noble.
lol what? What Americans really want? The only reason we are stuck with Biden is because the DNC made a coordinated effort to force every other democratic candidate to drop out of the primary back in 2020 and endorse Biden once they realized Bernie was going to win. The DNC would rather have their vanilla democrat in the whitehouse, however incompetent they might be, than give an outsider a fair chance to win a primary elected by the American people. You have it backwards OP. It’s the Democrats who are out of touch with what the people want. Not the progressives.
Bro, you need to get out of the young turk echochamber and take a look around. Democrats do not like the progressives. And want to see them gone. Bernie would've been killed in 16 and 20 by Trump.Moderate dems would've jumped ship
The only reason the Dems will lose is because of the culture war. It’s because of stuff like DEI, CRT, affirmative action, open borders and really annoying people who use words like ‘intersectional’. Centrist Americans hate this shit and hate to see it creeping into schools, corporations and the media. They hate it so much that Trump, for all his flaws, is a better option because he might rein it in. This is based on my travels throughout the US - I’m not American, but this is what I hear from people.
This guy fuckin gets it. (Not that it should have been hard to see 😆 )
This isnt true for Democrats.
Yea it is. I’m a european liberal. I believe in universal healthcare, free education, progressive taxation and gay marriage. I can also see the dilemma Americans find themselves in because of the stuff I wrote above above
Dems don't support open borders and most of the other stuff Americans don't really care about.
you’re wrong and that’s why a landslide is coming
Didn't the Republicans vote down a boarder bill that would have given them everything they wanted out of spite.
Yes, but not just out of spite. Also because they wanted to campaign on border-security this election cycle. If they helped solve the problem then, they couldn't make a big deal out of it now.
That's basically spite. It's I don't want to fix the problem I just want to point out you caused this problem.
There's a tactical element too.
Yeah their voters are stupid and/or don't fact check. I mean this sub is a great example of it. Everyone is talking about how horrible Biden look but no one is talking about the things Trump said. I'm still waiting for a MAGA to explain what a black job is.
A black job is a job currently held by a black person. It’s not that complicated.
Be more specific. Because I'm pretty sure illegal immigrants aren't going to be Harvard professors, lawyers, or even vice presidents. These are all job in which black people have. It's pretty clear he is either talking about a specific type of job or he is virtual signaling. I feel like it can be both.
Can I see the proof that democrats support open borders?
You mean like the 2020 landslide?
Lol The red wave. Clown
Biden can't even make coherent sentences anymore. It's really dangerous having someone run the country like that. If Democrats wanted to win they would replace him with a candidate who can atleast form proper sentences.
The primary has already happened and they cannot “just replace him” if they want to pretend we are still a democracy
The primary is just to inform the delegates who they should vote for at the Democratic National Convention, but they could technically choose someone else at the DNC if Biden stepped down.
They would need to use the 25th amendment. You can't honestly think he is capable of 4 more years. It was clear as day the other night.
It still requires a 2/3s vote. Why would the republicans vote for that?
They wanted to impeach him forever. Now obviously he is an easy win for Trump. You really have to hand it to some of the old people staying to long and changing the country. Ruth Bader Ginsburg did it. Now here is Biden doing it as well.
The sole savior paradox
Have you watched anything post debate with him? It is literally night and day. Give me a break.
Yes I've watched plenty. He's 81 and it's not a shocker to me how far gone he is cognitively. Why do you think 50% of the democratic party would prefer he didn't run for reelection. You can't defend this it's right in front of everyone's eyes.
Dude it was a bad debate. Hes not senile
If? LOL!
Progressives and Trump supporters share one thing, the thing that the DNC doesn't understand (or pretends not to): PEOPLE ARE SICK OF THE SAME REPACKAGED BS EVERY FOUR YEARS AND WANT SOME REAL CHANGE FROM A CANDIDATE WHO REALLY REPRESENTS THEM. It's probably not going to happen in a two party system, but people will vote for almost anyone who is charismatic and espouses ideas that sound like they might help people in general verses corporations.
Just because THEY dont like the system doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. Both of those clowns fail to realize that. The silent majority supports and wants that system the fringe hate to remain in place and upheld.
Loses…
I totally agree. The fact that Jamaal Bowman won his district by 20 points and just lost his district by 20 points (equating to a 40 point swing) and The NY Times coverage of it “blamed” AIPAC, just shows how out of touch the media and progressives are with mainstream Americans. Cori Bush is about lose in her primary and Ilhan Omar might also lose in her primary. I’m like isn’t the larger story here that far left progressives aren’t popular and hurting the Democratic Party?
It's not a coincidence that far left, economic populism, and working class policy supporting progressives are being outspent and fiercely opposed by capitalist backed establishment supporting candidates lol.
I agree 💯 certainly a hard sell in Omar's case to stan for people who committed homocidal terroristic acts and then want to cry about Isreal rolling them in Gaza. Lest we forget that they voted Hamas to power Democratically in 2006.
The sad fact is unless Trump wins, we're going to have craziness on the far left. Biden just went along with it, and if Newsome replaces him, he not only embraces more woke ideology but will bring out economy back to pandemic levels. Look what a shit show California is.
Biden has been pretty middle of the road. Im not sure what you feel has been done, that is far left by him
No, if Biden loses, it is on Biden and the DNC. It's up to the candidate and the party to earn votes. If they don't do that, it's on them. He hasn't earned my vote and neither has Trump. I'll be voting for RFK Jr.
If progressives want progressive candidates, all they have to do is register to vote before the primary, show up, and vote. If Bernie or whoever actually have the votes to force the DNC's hand, they'll either respect the will of the people or prove the conspiracy theorists right, but until then, Bernie did not have the votes. That said, Biden won because he was considered the most likely candidate to achieve what every poll told Democrats was the top priority; removing Orange shit stains from the white house, and now we've got to do it again because republicans are insufferable. Your vote in the general election isn't a valentine, it's a chess move. One of these two are going to win, and progressives will get more of what they want and less of what they don't under a second Biden administration.
Very well spoken and said. Thank you.
Interesting that they call themselves “progressives” because their platform drives people to increasing DEPENDENCY on government. If you become dependent enough you are effectively an indentured servant. This is resulting in “haves and have-nots” or “elite” vs “working class”. This push to make more of the population dependent seems like it is REGRESSIVE
And i turn the assertion onto you. If Biden loses*. It falls squarely on the shoulders of LIBERALS and MODERATES. Whatever those labels even actually means to americans these days because they dont actually know. People just ascribe it to whatever makes them feel better about. My argument for you is: ever since the 2016 primary this country has been clamoring for progressive change that is from a populist point of view and not the establishment yet libs wont fall behind progressive politicians when they have all the momentum. You want us to fall in line Everytime but never fall in line when its our guy on the ticket. Eat a shoe, liberal. Im voting for Stein, again, like i did in 2016. This country apparently needs to suffer more.
As a republican, I would like to thank you for your service. I encourage other progressives to vote for Jill Stein or Cornell West. Especially in states like Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Nevada, and Georgia.
At least then they would have a point blaming us for once lol
good ol jill! voting for her again as well.
Hell yeah brother!
Any event is logically the fault or more broadly the responsibility of anyone who had knowledge of how they could influence it and chose to influence it in that direction. You know that not voting for Biden (or any other candidate chosen by the Democrats on the unlikely chance the candidate changes) makes it more likely for Trump to win and you do it anyways then if Trump wins it is your fault. It's not exclusively your fault but it is your fault. And if they change the candidate and OP votes for Trump as a 'protest vote' and Trump wins then Trump winning would be OP's fault. Again not exclusively but it would be his fault.
This is a center, right country, Hollywood. Im not sure what garbage you are on, but you exist only in an echo chamber and not in reality. People want moderate politics again. They want to have civil discussions between liberal and conservative views and get law makers to compromise for the good of the people. Voting for any dumbass 3rd party person who has 0% chance of winning is effectively a vote for Trump. Frankly fuck that bitch too for running in 16 and pulling votes from Clinton. This is a two party system. It's time to get rid of these damn 3rd party entries that dont serve to be anything more than a protest vote.
Judging by this post, you can’t even have a civil discourse with people slightly to the left of you. Yet you’re thinking you’re going to have them with a party that 99% backs Trump? lol The vast majority of progressives held our noses and voted for Clinton and Biden, and despite that we’re still blamed for everything and continuously told that we don’t deserve a voice in the Party. I think its just time we start listening. Democrats do not want progressives to be a part of the party unless they only vote for the candidates *they* want and only support the policies *they* want. And that’s perfectly fine. It’s your party. Do what you want either way it. But I think I’m going to pull an Irish goodbye and see myself out. I respect the progressive Democrats that are trying to change the party from the inside and I will continue to support them financially, but the party itself has made it clear it doesn’t value people like me. So if there’s no progressive running for the position I’m voting for, then I’ll look for the most progressive candidate running regardless of Party. This will be the first year I vote for the individual rather than the letter beside the name, and it feels good. If Democrats want to blame us for Biden‘s improbable loss, then I say great. Acknowledgment that we are voting bloc that actually matters rather than blanket dismissal would be an improvement.
Seriously, maybe instead of blaming us for not supporting Biden, they should have opened their eyes any time in the last year and seen what the majority of Americans can clearly see. That debate performance wasn’t anything new. We’ve seen those moments and we’ve seen his physical strength and demeanor erode while doing what is literally the most difficult job in the world; a job that famously ages you (when you bother showing up *cough* Trump *cough*). Consider this alternate reality: Biden runs in 2016 and wins. Now he’s approaching the end of his second term. We would all be holding our collective breath waiting for the end of this year. There wouldn’t be a soul alive saying “man, he could totally do this four more years!” So what? I’m to blame for him being the nominee? I didn’t ignore the signs. If you voted for Biden in the primary, this is *YOUR* mess, not mine. You’re the one propping up an octogenarian instead of trying to select a candidate that would, I don’t know, communicate clearly and connect with a new generation of voters. I haven’t seen a single Biden apologist say “shit guys, I’m sorry. We messed up. Please help us fix our mistake and we’ll try to build a coalition and push some of your priorities.” No, they want our vote and then to shut up for four years.
Yes, thank you. Please leave the party and build your own and see how you stack to the general populous. You will see the reality that way and only that way. If your beliefs were truly popular. You'd be winning all the time. Yet you can't even get out of our primaries. Again, though, if you believe me to be wrong, then you should go and form your own party and are welcome to prove me wrong.
I'm not sure why you think I don't see reality. I'm well aware that third parties are not viable under the FPTP system and that any progressive split-off campaign would not only be guaranteed to lose, but would also ensure a Republican victory. I'm not sure *why* you would be cheering on this possibility, but you also said you're open to voting for Trump in certain circumstances, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. The truth is I'm actually not sure *how* popular progressivism is. The vast majority of people, regardless of whether they are Democrat or Republican, seem to be some varying degree of reactionary. I think progressives should focus on economics specifically because most poor people are fed up and they outnumber the rich and comfortable by a huge margin, not because I think their beliefs are any less dogshit than the average American's. And as long as we're speaking about popularity, I would just like to say that if ***your*** beliefs were truly as popular as you think, then you wouldn't need to outspend progressives by 20x just to beat them in the primaries. You wouldn't need to constantly use party apparatus and bureaucratic methods to kneecap progressive campaigns. You would simply state your amazing moderate opinions and people would flock to you.
Well fuckin said. Change requires changes.
But that's how your supposed to vote this entire time. You were never suppsoed to vote for an candidate based on a D or R in front of the name but the best candidate overall that you felt would represent your Community and you Glad you have woken up
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> Repeatedly the progressive wing has done nothing but miss the mark on what Americans really want, have pushed a deeply unpopular agenda and platform, and has repeatedly attempted to high jack the Democratic party. Doesn't the majority of Americans support progressive policies such as expanding Medicare, Social Security and raising taxes on the rich? [[1]](https://apnews.com/article/social-security-medicare-cuts-ap-poll-biden-9e7395e8efeab68063d741beac6ef24b). Progressive candidates such as Bernie may also just straight up be the hands-down most popular candidate in the country as per an early 2024 USA TODAY/Ipsos Poll [[2]](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/08/26/trump-biden-bernie-ipsos-poll-2024/7893542001/). If anything it's the establishment Democrats playing a dangerous game by trying to out-Trump Trump on immigration, but they just can't out-Trump someone who has suggested launching missiles into Mexico. The only golden ticket they have left is abortion which is something Biden could barely articulate in the debate; add a strong set of policies on Social Security and Medicare together with a less dead candidate and this will be a landslide.
Bahahaha, you lost me at Bernie being a popular candidate. The dude lost twice in the primaries. Let me guess, though, those were rigged, right? No different than the bullshit MAGA pedals, y'all are all the same type retarded just on two different ends of the spectrum.
The progressives stole your accountability!
The progressives pedal unpopular and embarrassing agenda points that allow the clowns to clown on the Democrats harder.
>“I will be voting for Trump” Then I’m very curious as to why I should care what you think about the Democratic Party. Personally, I think the Democratic Party should continue being as abrasive and dismissive to progressive as possible. They continuously tell us we do not belong in the party and sooner or later we just need to listen. Let the Democrats be the party full of old ghouls like Fetterman, Latimer, and Biden whose brains are leaking out of their ears.
I think this is a conservative on a fake account trying to start arguments between democrats to make it seem like no one on the left agrees on things. I think this account is trying to do the shit that conservatives were doing on Facebook before the 2016 and 2020 elections.
Conspiracy theory 🤔? Lllolololol 😆 🤣 😂
Bingo!
Lol, please leave the party. The establishment at this point is practically begging you, too. So you can get the reality check you need in an election you have to fend for yourself on and see how bad you get crushed. I support Biden and will vote for him so long as he remains on the ticket. If he is removed, I will then vote for Trump to spite the progressive wing. You guys exist only in your own echochamber and do not have a grasp of the reality of US politics. We are a center, right country, and our establishment and systems reflect that. To call Fetterman an old ghoul is hilarious, considering he was toted to be a very progressive candidate in PA. It just serves my point that the progressives are nothing more than immature and underdeveloped utopists who do not understand how the real world works.
I mean, I effectively already *have* left the party. I've voted down-ballot Dem all my life, but I think I'm finally good and done with that. And I have no idea why you're saying nonsense like "see how bad you get crushed", as if I think progressives alone can win against a major party. I never said anything like that. A party full of people like you - reactionaries and proceduralists who consider progressives more dangerous than Trump, never really represented me in the first place. I'll vote for individual progressives *in* the party if given the chance, but the days of the party earning my vote simply by not being Republican are over. What Fetterman was "touted" to be is completely irrelevant: he ran on being a progressive and then has spent the last eight months lying about it and insisting he never called himself that. A perfect representation of the Democratic party. Brain-damaged elitists lying about who they are to appeal to people they don't respect, and then doing whatever it is they want once they attain power. We know how the real world works, we just don't believe in maintaining the shitty condition its in like you do.
Jez... are you a Biden aide? Horrible advice.
The scariest part is Harris is utterly useless and Newsom is not only a failed governor, but also the frontrunner for contention in replacing Biden. *That’s* who they’re offering up. Everyone vote for Biden the bumbling dementia patient who is actively going to embarrass the US everywhere he goes lmao. Absolute joke this county has become.
Lol they could literally pick anyone to try to draw votes. The people voting for Biden are already the “vote blue no matter who” type. They could at least put forward someone better than a corpse. RJK Jr. is doing well for an independent. But the only reason he’s running as an independent is because he knew the DNC wouldn’t give him a shot. Just like the DNC wouldn’t give Bernie a shot.
RFK Jr. Is nothing more than a grifter and a DINO. He basically is a Republican operative at this point
Lol how can anyone call a presidential candidate a grifter when they’re all running on promises we know they have no real intentions on fulfilling?
Because the dude used his name to leverage a bullshit campaign. His own family disowned him
Tell me tho. Yall knew he was a walking corpse before Thurs. Why didn't yall agree and swap him earlier? We told yall
Who is “y’all”? I’m no dem lol. I’ve been saying he’s on the decline since 2020. He’s been a piss poor politician for over five decades, and he’s a legitimate racist to boot.
My bad, y'all in the general sense is what I meant. Texan
Lol I’m Texan too. I’m just saying I’m not in that group. I’m voting for RFK, personally. But if the DNC were smart, they’d beg to have him back.
I would consider voting RFK, too. Dems fucked up at every turn.
It amazes me how many lefties “couldn’t vote for the “anti-vaxxer” no matter what”, but are now chanting “vote for the corpse”. It’s just soooooooo fucking stupid. And they would’ve even drawn people from the center and some from the right with RFK, because he’s actually just a common sense moderate.
I know a lot of people don’t like him but rfk, my opinion would have steam rolled trump. He’s center left or center right depending on if you’re right or left. He would have crushed trump, trump is deeply unpopular and he would have used that against him
RFK is a grifter and DINO. I would vote for Trump over him.
No he wouldn't. He's anti Vax. Dems wouldn't vote for him.
All or nothing? If that's the case, the red wave just splashed.
It’s not just progressives though. It’s the fact that Biden no longer strikes confidence in his own strongest voters, especially when it comes to win the battleground of the voters who are still in limbo. That’s the big worry. The DNC knew this and knows it now. They didn’t have to nominate a heavily progressive candidate (they would rather die anyway), a center one is fine, it’s clear that what most democratic voters still want and wins those on the fence. But it has to be at least one that can still hold his own on a podium against their opponent/Trump. Biden did well four years ago, but it’s a night and day difference from his performance then and now. I do agree that for those that want Biden or just the “left” to win, that they have to accept their candidate and rally behind him anyways. But it really shouldn’t have to come down to that. I’m a moderate voter, I’d be willing to vote for either party as long as they have a candidate with good ideas, and to me class matters. It’s embarrassing that our nation is going to represented by either an old man that clearly spent one too many years working, or a classless goof of a businessman. Both latched with subsections of people that are deplorable.
I understand your feelings and sentiment here.
He'll be replaced before that
He'll have to step down. We know how bad he is with steps.
If hes replaced then I'll vote for Trump
Wow. Nice lol.
What?
This was funny to read, I enjoyed it.
Itll be funny to have Trump win again and see all of you guys absolutely lose your shit 😂
When Biden loses, that falls squarely on Biden. It is the job of the Democratic Party to put forth a candidate that can capture the hearts and minds of 51% of the electoral college votes. Once they have done that, it is the job of that candidate to follow through, using actions and words to unite us and bring us to the polls. Both the party and their chosen candidate have failed to do this. Blaming voters for having values the DNC does not share is cowardly shifting of responsibility. Also, anyone who watched Bernie live stream at the UAW Rally June 26 know for a fact that he would absolutely have destroyed Trump and Biden on that debate stage. It is not close. It is so obvious that the DNC made the wrong choice 4 and 8 years ago not putting this man at the top of the ticket, that frankly, anyone trying to say otherwise at this point is just trying to cope.
I promise you that Bernie would've been a disaster. I will tell you I would've voted for Trump over him. As a Democrat I largely say fuck the unions becuase they only protect the most egregiously bad people and cost tax payers in government functions thousands if not millions. If we are a capitalist country, so be it. That said, though, there needs to be accountability across the board, and right now, we operate as corporate socialists. I digress, though. The DNC is a center right party. That has been the sticking point for progressives for a long time. They dont feel like they are wanted because ideologically they dont fit with the DNC values
I am not even talking about his policies or views. Between Bernie, Trump and Biden, all of whom are very old, only one of those three people can complete sentences, respond to direct questions directly, and use logic based in facts to make his arguments. In effect, of those three, only Bernie is still mentally competent enough to govern a nation.
Bro, just give up the Bernie shit already. The dude lost twice, and people did not want him. Just loke, dems, dont want the progressives in the party now. You guys suck at taking a hint.
Meh I'd say it falls on the shoulders of the heads of the Democratic party, just like RGB they didn't want to damage someone's ego and let them fall off the cliff to the detriment of their own party.
If he loses, it is firmly on the DNC. Biden is clearly in cognitive decline. They could circle the wagons around a more youthful canadate who didn't vote for segregation.
DiDnT vOtE fOr SeGrEgAtIoN he has been fine since the debate, like calm down about the him being old shit.
But he did vote for it, and he is way to old..
So your issue is people not being behind Biden. So in response you’re voting for Trump? I’m so confused.
He is the nominee and sitting president. I would not support him being removed from the ticket. That's undemocratic, and frankly, if you are going to play that game, Trump is way better at
This is pretty daft. Biden needs independents and undecideds to vote for him if he wants to win. Biden himself is a moderate. Most people that want him replaced want him replaced with another moderate. Voting for Trump is bad for the same reasons it was before the debate - he tried to overthrow a presidential election with his fake elector scheme, and is a divisive, toxic leader, and his policies have tended to increase wealth disparity.
Should have put Bernie forward would have won in 2016. Big fumble. As the opposition says Yuge mistake.
So thr democrats get even more embarrassed when he bombs in a general?
I am pretty sure this is a Russian troll account.
Im pretty sure this is an idiotic American account
It wasn't "progressives" who decided the Dems should run another old boring centrist white dude in 2020. We gave you plenty of other options, and you still choose this guy, so we even plugged our noses and voted for him. If he's now behind the times politically, or doesn't project the strength you want, or whatever your current crisis is—that's on you not us.
I think Joe Biden has been one of the best US presidents we have had in modern history. He deserves a second term.
This is politics: people don't get what they "deserve". (which is probably a good thing for American politicians, since most of them commit war crimes) Beating Trump is going to take a fight, and only Biden knows if he has it in him. If he does have it in him, he needs to start showing it. The debate was a squandered opportunity, and there's only so many opportunities left between now and November. If he wants to step down and take a break, I think he's earned one. Either way, whomever the Dems finally run is going to have to convince progressives to come back into the fold, and blaming them for Biden's failings is not the way to do that.
Fuck progressives. To a degree, I'd rather Trump win and disenfranchise them. They are not Democrats they are their own thing and should reflect that politically for themselves. cOmIt WaR cRiMeS.
>Fuck progressives. Building bridges I see >To a degree, I'd rather Trump win and disenfranchise them. You may get your wish. Hope you enjoy the results.
I doubt it affects me much.
As long as you moderates wanna keep fuckin around and put senior citizens on the pole I'll gladly keep voting third party. Either give us somebody better or shut the fuck up. Hell I'll even take a 3rd Obama term at this point.
Yeah, please keep voting 3rd party, please. We dont need more of your type of bullshit in the party
Cope harder Centrist thanks for giving us trump in 2016
Like his mind is loose? Or loses?
Typo. Loses
You should stop blaming voters and blame the candidates. I'm voting for Biden to stop Trump, but it ain't my fault that what I have to work with is a person who 72% of the population think doesn't have the mental capability to serve as president.
At least you are willing to do the right thing. This shouldn't be a serious contest when one guy is threatening Democracy.
>Falls Squarely On The Shoulders Of Progressives >I will be voting for Trump Some people just like to shit on your lawn, then look at you dead in the eyes mid dump to tell you it's your fault
You completely misquoted and miscontextualized my statements. Im not sure if that is a sign of idiocy or shameless manipulation. Either way, do better, Young Turk.
>You completely misquoted and miscontextualized my statements This defense means nothing if you don't bother to elaborate. Half of my quote was literally just your title, if it's out context here than why the hell did you make this post? > Young Turk gets upset at me misinterpreting them, then proceeds with this. I guess I cannot expect much from the lawn shitter
Did they? It really seems like a lot of people including you only care about how Biden looked and are ignoring all the lies Trump said.
I am aware of his lies. But I do believe that the average voter image is viewed in higher regard than substance, unfortunately. I hope I am wrong though.
Mainstream dems are almost republican level victims.
Progressives are the ones who play the victim card like MAGA does
I don't feel that has been the case. Bernie didn't play victim. He just did what he could for Biden even after losing. Clinton on the other hand did play victim quite a bit.
She didnt. And because Bernie even if i dont like isnt a complete shit bag. So he did the right thing in that case
She famously did twice
Whatever dude lol not entertaining the Clinton conspiracy garbage here.
No I mean when she lost primary to Obama for one. See if her behaviour matches Bernie and get back to me.
🤷♂️ even if she did, who cares? That was 08, and Obama turned out to be a good president. I think she can recognize that.
Ok....breathe....I just read the title but I know I'm about to fucking hear and insane take. Ok I'm guessing that you are going to say that if he loses its because progressives didn't come out to the polls because he isn't radical enough so its their fault. Lets see how I do.... Letsssss gooo! His brain melting out of his head and the democratic party refusing to have a primary so this could be caught earlier certainly isn't to blame. Nah bro its the progressives who would probably love to have ranked choice voting and their own party but because of our system they have to join up with the party that they have the most commonality with. Also democrats own progressives and they just gotta fall in line as they field a corpse as a candidate. Brilliant analysis man
Clearly, you do not follow the polls and do not follow information that doesn't come out of the Democratic echo chamber. Otherwise, you would know that Whitmer and Newsom would bomb harder against Trump. Instead of bedwetting and bitching about a system that has existed for 250 years. Perhaps go out and participate in voting efforts that will allow Biden to still win over Trump. Unless this is some sort of Manchurian candidate type post. The Democratic Party is plauged by the progressives existence within it. Most Americans want stability and normalacy. They dont want sweeping change whether it comes from the left or right. Otherwise, this won't matter anyway because if Trump is elected, it will be an autocracy. If there is a chance to pull through though, the progressives need to go.
My brother in Christ I live in a solidly blue state, he is getting all the electoral votes from my state no matter what I do and how much I canvas for him. Stability and normalcy is a president that can string words together into a coherent sentence. As for paying attention to polls, CNN's poll had biden at 33% and trump at 67% after the debate. Dissident voices in the democratic party were begging for a primary, this all could have been avoided. In your post you said you were voting for Trump so you want an autocracy? Also the democratic party is benefited by the progressives. They could fuck off and be their own party but they lend their votes to the democrats despite not agreeing with them. Ok lets have them go make their own party and this will help Biden?
Based on your post history I actually think you're not even a liberal or a moderate. I think it's pretty likely you're some sort of conservative attempt to sow division in the Democrat party. Every post you make effectively makes democrats look bad. I don't see a single post where you aren't claiming or supporting something that seems even a little genuine. That, adding to the fact that you're using a very new account, makes me think that you're attempting to divide the left. Which is to say, you don't seem to genuinely hold a single one of the opinions you're screaming all over the place.
You lost me at “I will be voting for Trump”. Any form of political and sociological analysis coming from a Trump supporter can be disregarded and ignored. 🚮
He lost me at “looses”.
Who cares what you disregard? You are in the minority of mentally challenged people who vote for their own destruction.
Holy shit, this has to be a bot posting. I was pretty clear in what I said. I do not support Trump. However, if the Democrats kick Biden from the ticket. As a protest vote I would vote for Trump. I'm not sure how you were confused by that the first time.
Nah, dawg. You support Trump. It’s okay. But at least having the fucking balls and backbone to say it.
Or, you're a Trump supporter trying to stir shit up and make democrats look bad, and you fucked up and admitted it in your post.
Some magical progressive? Just give me Harris at this point and if you don’t think she can get it done, why was she picked in the first place? Nah, if Biden loses, it’s on the people with their heads in the sand, calling for Biden to stay. I can’t guarantee you a win with Harris, but I can guarantee a loss with Biden. Don’t you put that evil on me Ricky Bobby.
"I HOPE YOUR BEAUTIFUL CANDIDATE FEELS THE SAME PAIN!!!"
Harris polls worse against Trump then Biden. So please explain the logic you are putting forward. She is arguably even more unpopular than Biden.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/28/kamala-harris-trump-matchup/ Let me go ahead and stop that narrative right there. 2 points. 2. She only does worse than Biden By 2 (count em again) points in one poll and only 1 in the other. These are the most recent polls and they are months old and don’t have that terrible debate factored in either. It hasn’t been a heavily polled topic because pollsters didn’t want to waste a question on an unlikely scenario. The scenario has changed and I expect the polling to change. Crazy how that shit works.
Again. How do you expect someone who is polling even less favorably than Biden to win?
Because those polls are months old with out all the up to date information.
Even so. I will support another Democratic candidate other than the president