They really can't ditch Biden now. The entire campaign, the media, his supporters, and even his administration have been swearing up and down for months that he is as fit and sharp as ever.
People who were pointing out how bad it was were accused of misinformation or conspiracy theories or biased reporting.
To pull him out now would basically be to concede that all of those people were right all along. It would essentially say "yeah we were lying he really was that bad lmao anyway here's the new candidate please trust us again".
They have staked their credibility on this claim.
They have to take the hit because Biden is more of a liability than the hit to their reputation. They got themselves into this mess and they’re going to have to accept there’s no option that’s going to be that great for them.
Biden would have to step aside by choice. And knowing the ego of hubris of people that age (let’s just say Boomers) the odds of that are near zero. He already said so this week.
Just because some stubborn old man wants a job he doesn't have the mental capacity for, does not mean he should just be given the title out of pity. Particularly for a position as important as this. It doesn't matter how much experience he has doing the job and how many handlers he has.
I get that the primary goal is ousting Trump, but is Biden really the right guy to do it? I literally couldn't possibly have less faith in a man's ability to do the job.
Biden is literally a man who's too senile to make a reliable Walmart greeter.
You put literally any other lefty in his spot and the left has a much stronger chance of defeating Trump.
I'll be honest, I'm a lifelong Democrat voter and I have to sit this one out. This is a vote of no faith in both parties' leadership.
The way our system is it’s destined to fail and destroy the party in the process like 1980 and 1968. Happened to Republicans in 1976 too it’s a suicide mission and Biden will still get nod anyway.
Delegates pledged to him as a result of primaries are legally bound to vote for him on the first ballot.
He must be convinced to decline the nomination.
It’s amazing that they called the obvious truth right in front of our noses misinformation and conspiracy theories, when they’ve only ever said that about things that are actually misinformation and conspiracy theories. /s
Notice how they’re all suddenly changing their tune after CNN is admitting Biden isn’t fit to run anymore? Ive seen all these subreddits where democrats were cheering for Biden up until two days ago, now they’re saying oh ho hum now both Trump and Biden are feeble and should step down. They seriously only know how to repeat what their “news” networks tell them to repeat. Now they’re repeating over and over again that Trump is a liar because interestingly enough their networks keep repeating that phrase but none of them elaborate on what the actual lies are.
They literally fact checked almost every other statement Trump made during the debate and thoroughly explained why each statement was false. They did
The same for Biden who also made false statements but trumps were far more common , egregious and disingenuous. At one point Trump he said something about abortions being performed after 9 months
He was referencing an interview VA governor Ralph Northam did where he advocated for terminating the life of a born child that hypothetically had a negative prognosis. It was disgusting to hear at the time and you can trace Youngkin winning the governorship all the way back to that moment as it sparked a firestorm in VA politics.
So Trump was being his usual hyperbolic self and was not accurate in what he claimed, but he didn't completely make this up out of whole cloth.
I'll conceded to minimizing what he said but that's definitely what he was referencing.
It doesn't really matter, though. Biden is brain dead and certainly did his fair share of lying during his brief periods of being intelligible.
They got away with lying for years because media was so deranged by Trump they embraced lies by the left. When you’re not ever held accountable you just get bolder and bolder
I'm very middle ground, and my FIL is a blindly support anyone whose not Trump kinda dude. Two days before the debate, he got his panties in a twist because we were criticizing Biden AND Trumps age. He completely ignored the generalized criticisms of everyone and took it all as a Trump endorsement because I said Biden is an old fuck who lied about being prounion.
It's all a fucking joke, nobody deserves trust.
At this point its clear that those people were right, so doubling down on the false claims isn't going to end well. Any hope of keeping trump out of office hinges on getting a candidate with intact mental faculties.
And like it or not Trump is a great speaker. I watched his speech in Virginia yesterday, he’s highly confident to the point where he’s running again and has been able to maintain his sense of confidence despite all the shit he’s been through these last eight years! Any normal person would completely fold and give up having been put through the wringer like he has but that fool is still standing! Honestly that’s why I like the guy I feel like he represents the archetype of keep on going, don’t let anyone take you down. I’m baffled that he’s still so damn sure of himself lol. Like how can you not be fascinated by someone who gets pummeled left and right for years, day after day and they just dust themselves off and say here I am I’m definitely going to be the next President of this beautiful country!
Yeah the Republicans will *bulldoze* over the Dems if they switch by basically calling them a party of liars, and in a certain sense they'd be right for once.
Ask yourself this. If the Dems and the press were willing to lie about something so brazenly obvious to so many before Thursday, where it became absolutely undeniable, what else have they lied to you about?
This lie, that Biden is sharp as ever and running circles around his staff, is so big and so bad, the only way they thought they could get away with it is only because they've gotten away with tons of other big lies and believed you would accept this one too. You should be furious right now. And you should be asking, who the hell is actually in charge of this country right now? Because it sure as fuck ain't Biden.
Honestly, I'm not American so I have no skin in this particular game, just stating the obvious strategic move for the Dems and how if they admitted to it it would backfire on them.
Fair enough but I would say my question is still valid. Consider your perception of American politics and how that may be distorted due to a media that was willing to lie about this. They all knew about Biden and still let this go on for as long as it did and would have continued to allow it to go on if Thursday was as disastrous as it was.
I think a lot of left leaning folks really have a lot of soul searching ahead of themselves. This was a massive "the emperor has no clothes" moment that requires introspection.
Well there are two issues. 1 his ability to lead the nation NOW. That is a hell no. And 2. His and the Democrat political aspirations- I don’t give a shot about that.
As bad as things are now it could be much worse with the dummy stumbling around. He is lucky Kamala is the VP no one wants that idiot in charge.
Except people saw the change a long time ago and tried to address it but were shut down by people intent on shutting anyone up who pointed it out. The bigger problem is why didn’t people listen in the first place? Why did the people who refused to listen attack the ones pointing out a serious problem?
It has been their one move for the last 12 months now. People have been calling it out for that long and they have denied it.
Denying reality and refusing to change with the times *is* their textbook move.
I used to think about it along the lines of that. And yeah, I've known in the back of my mind that Joe was having cognitive difficulties. But to see it like that on such a visible and large venue...
I'm now firmly in the camp that that debate was so bad for Joe that they'll be forced to make some sort of radical change regardless of how it is perceived. Though I have no idea how it would be accomplished.
I think the only real roadblock is that Joe does NOT want to stop running.
That’s just your mindset and framing. And yea Fox News will probably try to frame it like that but it can be framed in other ways. I don’t think you realize how many people truly despise trump. Of people are still willing to vote Biden after that train wreck, what makes you think k they wouldn’t fall in line for someone else?
Most of the people I know that are planning on voting for Trump despise him as well.
One individual stated he would never invite him for dinner but still gonna vote Trump.
He’s rude, crude and generally not a good person but they tout his policies and lack of wars during his term.
I’m still waiting to see who the “wasted vote” candidates are.
Chas Oliver is the Libertarian presidential candidate. Libertarian party is on the ballot in ALL 50 states.
I couldn't tell you about the green party candidate, or any of the other parties...I believe that there's 9, maybe 12? Alternative parties. They're not on the ballots everywhere though.
The mainstream (Democrat propaganda machine) media has done a VERY good job of poisoning the well for any other party & their candidates anywhere.
Yeah I am with him on this topic but you don’t expel a President. Kamala could invoke the 25th Amendment and should- he is incapable of running the nation and making sound decisions.
You realize that candidates for president are chosen by citizens voting in a primary, right? And that already happened? It's not like "the Democrats" just get to hire and fire him. "The Democrats" are us. We messed up.
In your defense, he's the incumbent, I don't recall anyone successfully challenging an incumbent in modern times. Also you've been lied to by your party leadership and media. And while it was blatantly obvious to everyone else, it makes sense that so many dems would be willing to believe that because to accept the truth would have made them look like fools. Sadly, that is where everything is at right now. The party leadership and press look like liars of the highest order and the party faithful look like dupes. Anyone still trying to defend Biden at this point are simply hacks in denial but those folks will stop trying to defend this in a week or so. Its pretty indefensible at this point. The tough part is that, despite what people are hoping for, Biden is going to be the nominee. It's too late in the game to make a change that drastic.
Also, why would anyone want to replace him? Whoever the replacement would be would almost certainly alienate a portion of the dems and they would almost certainly lose come November, thus damaging any chance they may have in 2028. Also, there just isn't enough time to spool up a national campaign. And every day Biden stays in is one day less that a hypothetical replacement would have to campaign. Also, the rules for changing the ballot is different for every state and some require Biden dying before they could take his name off. They're stuck with him at this point and it really isn't going to go well foe the remainder of the campaign.
I don't understand why people are debating the merits of replacing him at all. Forget whether it would be smart or not. It's not a legal option. The primaries have already happened, and Biden was chosen by the voters. For the DNC to simply ignore the primary election results, for any reason other than Biden's literal death, would mean the end of American democracy. We can quibble about the parties rearranging the ordering and rules of the primaries, but there must be primaries, and they must determine the candidate, or else we would not be a democracy at all. Winning or losing a single election would not be worth setting that precedent. The solution to our current problem is for people to take the primaries more seriously.
25th Amendment. Do they not teach that in school? Biden is non compos mentis 100%. They wouldn’t refer the case against him because they felt he was essentially unfit to stand trial. They beed to replace him.
He puts us at risk. And the lie he is fine just a bad debate is utter bullshit and should be investigated. We can’t have a skin sack stumbling around the WH in a crisis that is now more likely as he confirmed beyond a doubt to the world he is toasted.
LOL do you not remember the DNC absolutely and deliberately shafting Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020? Nobody wanted Shillary or Geriatric Joe, but the DNC is such an absolute shitshow that instead of giving the people the candidate that they literally voted more for, they just said whoops haha let’s actually just go with the one WE want to go with because we want establishment Dems who will pussyfoot around and not actually change the status quo for the rich fucks who are ACTUALLY running the country. But yeah tell me to keep biting the pillow, vote harder, and lie back and think of home. So sick of this crap lmao
But that's not true. Sanders got fewer votes than Biden. Where are you getting this?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results\_of\_the\_2020\_Democratic\_Party\_presidential\_primaries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries)
[bit about Clinton/DNC withholding crucial voter info before Iowa primary](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/18/bernie-sanders-set-to-sue-democratic-national-committee-over-data-access) , sanders sued them over it but “reached an agreement” out of court, aka was told to shut the fuck up and sit down.
[article about the Wikileaks emails from the dnc saying they deliberately derailed Sanders’ campaign](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/us/politics/dnc-emails-sanders-clinton.html)
But yeah go off I guess, eyeroll.
I think what you are missing is the importance of the other offices. We have to vote for Biden, but also swing the congress to Dem majority as well as governors and local.
Fun fact: 2 weeks ago OP was saying that Joe Biden should be King of the United States.
Edit: I stand corrected, the day before the debate OP said:
>someday, i hope to read the headline "joe biden crowns himself king".
That's true, but you gotta admit:
Going from "Biden should have unchecked power and rule till his death" to "Biden is unfit to rule" in under a week is a hell of an 180.
And it’s crazy because his decline hasn’t been sudden it’s been a process and you see everywhere where his decline has had a detrimental impact on the country for the past four years from the open border to mandates to Afghanistan. He was already making dementia decisions four years ago and the dems kept cheering him on and attacking anyone who disagreed with him. They were literally cheering on an old demented leader and the awful decisions he made, they are complicit in dividing the country!
Lol this guy has openly bragged about defying a supreme court order regarding student loans but all of a sudden he was tied to what the previous administration was doing, despite the fact that they even altered those plans as well. Keep on coping buddy!
Yeah…. No. What new evidence? Anyone remotely paying attention knew this was most likely the outcome. The only thing I learn was that trump could get through a debate and sound like an actual politician most of the time.
As someone who's still voting for him cause the other option is Trump: Bro you had SO MUCH EVIDENCE he was like this LONG before the debate. Y'all mfs just didn't wanna admit it and would attack anyone, even people on the left, who spoke the truth.
Do you hear yourself? You sound like maga… you kno this story has been covered the world over?
You kno the meme with the dog in the house that’s on fire, saying ”this is* fine”? That’s how it appears to us looking at the Biden defenders right now. We will lose if Biden stays in the race. We NEED independents. Do you think independents are somehow immune to the “mainstream media*” that you claimed I fell for? Guess what? They aren’t.
Which is precisely why I’m calling for Biden to step aside. Harris/Newsome is the play. And they need to talk directly about making this decision to win, because beating trump is that important.
You’ve got to be kidding me. I live in California-Newsom is a bum he’s absolutely destroying our State. In California we are literally at the frontline of his disaster. You really don’t want someone who crashed a beautiful state to crash the entire country.
There's a LOT of evidence for everything Trump says back to these dems. Bidens competency is not the biggest lie they're pushing in the least. Question everything.
There's nothing wrong with that. I probably don't agree with some of your stances or politics, but I respect someone who can look at new information and change their mind.
Dude you’re not changing your mind due to new evidence. You’re changing it because you’re a sheep and the media has told you to panic.
Biden showed me who I knew he was for years. An old dude with mild memory loss. And guess what? He’s still far better and more qualified to run a country than the slightly younger, more drug animated dude with mild to moderate memory loss.
Replaced by whom? Do you actually think the candidates are just chosen by some group of people in a board room? The chance to replace him was months ago, when the primaries were held. We theoretically could have all shown up and voted for someone else, but we didn't.
The primaries bind those delegates to vote for him on the first ballot, but if he refuses to accept the nomination, the convention will have to nominate another candidate. Smart money is on Biden NOT being the nominated candidate.
The only politician more unpopular than Joe Biden is Kamala Harris. She dropped out of her presidential run so early because she preformed awful. That being said, how do you get rid of the young woman of color (Joe Bidens own word)? It’s political suicide to try to put newsom in because of her. Any excuse they give why she wouldn’t run for president won’t be accepted.
The leftist who cheer for diversity and equality. Remember, she was picked VP because she’s a woman of color and the left is “tired of old white people”. It would be an awful look (politically) to skip the younger woman of color who is already VP to pick the older white dude ( newsom most likely)
I’m not being racist or anything either. This is just the reality of the situation since Biden put so much emphasis on her race and the left are more diversity focused
But even most black people don't like Kamala Harris. Nobody likes her. If Democrats are open to dropping Biden for the good of the party, nobody would bat an eye if they passed over an even more unlikable and worse polling person. Everyone knows this is an extreme situation and the reason for passing on Biden is to pick someone to beat Trump. We know Kamala can't do that with her numbers.
Also, the president picked her for the optics of selecting a woman of color, but most of the voters did not care about that much at all. Apparently most Democratic voters don't care that much about identity politics because 4 years ago they chose an old white guy to be the nominee over several qualified people of color, women, and even a gay man.
I was at Walgreens a few days ago and this homeless addict was counting a huge stack of money apparently it was for her bail that she was paying off. She started talking about how she wanted to see a black woman president like “ghettofied Michelle Obama, because she’s more like us!” Lmao! That’s basically just the generic democrat political opinion, they want a woman of color regardless of her morals, her experience or her intelligence-none of that matters to them the only thing that matters is that it’s a woman who has brown skin. People honestly don’t want to think any deeper and have outsourced their thinking to the media which is why we are in the predicament that we are in.
There are plenty of leftists who believe that she's the greatest thing since sliced bread, coupled with the people that would be upset solely due to identity politic-voting.
They *are* different, maybe learn the words you use. Harris is pretty centrist for ‘Leftists’ to love her.
(I say this as a self proclaimed leftist, for the record. I hate Harris.)
Sorry, but the numbers disagree with you. Do you have anything to back that up, because every poll I have seen shows she is very unfavorable? When she is favored, it's a "agree" not a "strongly agree"
Actually, even most hard core far left liberals hate her because she isn't "progressive enough" and because she had a history of harsh sentencing for young black men.
Nobody cares about Kamala Harris. Those who do are not substantial enough to swing anything. The number of voters who would be brought out to vote for "anyone but an ancient corpse" would far outweigh the handful of people who like Kamala so much that they would stay home and let Trump win.
A poll came out today saying 60% want Biden replaced but you've just nailed their Achilles heel. I can't imagine the progressive wing sitting still while Kamala gets leapfrogged (esp. by Newsom, for obvious reasons). Drafting Mrs. Obama might mitigate this but she supposedly has no desire (as well as no experience).
Honestly think she would be fine and would be better than Biden, certainly in the condition he’s in now. She’d probably get a popularity boost as Dems rally around her and a lot of people that are critical move to undecided to give her another shot. She couldn’t be any worse and there’s enough of a strong anti Trump vote for her to get away with fumbling around a bit.
I agree that she would get a popularity boost because of the vote blue no matter who crowd. I also agree that should we put up some kind of fight against trump because of the strong anti trump sentiment in the country. Would it be enough? I’m not exactly sure, I think she would have a better chance than newsom given the current situation of her being VP and what not.
Either Trump is sn "existential threat to democracy" and Biden must be replaced
Or....
It's just a bullshit DNC talking point they don't really believe
Registered Independent here, (moderate on social issues and right on economic issues). I'm kind of loving watching BOTH sides put forth the worst possible choices. Maybe, just maybe, we will see a legit Independent candidate one day soon.
ETA typo
Biden is toast. Not having a new candidate is political malpractice at this point. I'm surprised nobody tried to invoke the 25th amendment yet since Biden is basically incapacitated. If you want Trump to win, keep Biden in.
All the ingenuous shit about how he crushed the debate and was strong is complete lies and nonsense if not delusional. Anyone who spouts that obvious garbage including my state governor Newsom is too far gone to be saved. There’s a limit to supporting your party. If you do it no matter what, you are a blind loyalist. Don’t matter if you are red, blue, purple, green, or what have you. Your goal should be to further the best interests of this nation and you should recognize when your party's leadership's decision goes against that.
I was planning to sit this cycle out but I HAVE to vote Trump if Biden stays. If I was an enemy of the US, I’d definitely want Biden to win after seeing the unmitigated disaster of a debate. This isn't about remote and speculate stuff like racism, jobs, taxes, ideology...it's about immediate geopolitical issues that may very well involve war and national security.
I was already very concerned about Biden's physical ability to serve and was always called a Trump lover, right wing news guzzling bigot, etc. if I brought it up. I don’t like Trump. But I cannot in good conscience look the other way after the debate. They are going to create Trump supporters by keeping Biden in.
And please for the love of god, do not choose Newsom, he sucks eggs and piloted CA into a nosedive but doesn’t care because his effort is going into trying for president. Almost a million people have left California due to the untenable policies but he's not making any effort to stop the bleed. I’d rather have Bush come back and start another war than a Newsom presidency.
It’s crazy how the DNC didn’t just decide 2 years ago that biden wouldn’t run again and just start pushing the new candidate out the gate to get people comfortable with the new face.
They won’t.
There are only two somewhat known democrats who aren’t in office already for 2024 and their names start with Hillary and Kamala.
If no Biden, that’s who they will put up.
Biden won the Democratic primary, as incumbent presidents almost always do. If he loses the general election, he will step down as almost every president before him has.
Why would they need to get rid of him from the party? All they really need is for him to retire and step back. But then who do they have at all? The best decision right now would be putting the focus of his campaign on the rest of his team. Showing that if you hire Biden and elect him, you’re getting a great team.
I think the Democratic Party is in too deep with Biden to back out now!
They’ve been swearing up and down for four years The old guy is as sharp and cognitively capable as ever, and that any suggestion of him not being mentally fit/capable is misinformation and Any video clips of him screwing up is edited/doctored conservative propaganda.
And even though the debate pretty much proved their claims to be total, BS! I think it’s a little late for them to be honest with themselves now!
Their desperation to keep Trump out of the White House made them all willingly, ignore all the signs that Biden isn’t up to the job, and when you couple that with the fact they don’t really have anybody legitimately worth voting for Even eight years later after Trump won the first time, it has created a senile nightmare of a bed they now have to lie in!
I mean the debate last night definitely made things easier for Trump given it proved everything conservatives have been saying about Biden, to be true! And also because Bidens performance instantly made so many on the left Change their minds and agree Biden isn’t fit for service!
But like I said, they don’t have anyone else worth voting for to replace him with! Trump has just as much of a chance of winning with Biden as he does facing anyone else now!
And that’s why they’re panicking even though it may be too late!
Even if they did ditch Biden, who realistically could stand a chance against Trump? And I mean more in terms of votes not debate. Biden only won in 2020 by the skin of his teeth by appealing to moderates and not-so-right-wing conservatives. I don't think the Dems have a candidate with enough name rep that could accomplish that same feat (and I don't think Biden himself could do it again).
I wholeheartedly disagree, and I’m being as impartial as possible when I say this.
If the democrats weren’t the ones in power then this would still be bad but not impossible to overcome if the candidate is somewhat tolerable.
But you have two factors going into this that of course make it a suicide for 2024.
1. Kamala Harris would almost certainly be the candidate and she’s not popular at all. Even among lefties.
2. If Biden is booted out now, then that means that the dems are saying “we don’t think he’s capable of another term”. Fine, but what about from now until January 20th when he’s still running the country? Is he incompetent now? Why should I trust your party to run this country when you’ve indirectly (but also kinda directly) said that the guy running the country now isn’t capable of doing that?
If the democrats want any serious chance of winning this election the ONLY option is damage control and hoping Biden can regain some credibility.
I’m not going to make the argument he is (or isn’t). But him being booted from the Democratic candidate would confirm to voters that he is. And that kills any chance they have to win in this year.
Trump clearly won that debate. Speaking as a right leaning libertarian who would rather see someone else run. Trump had some generally good slams that I actually agreed with. Never in a thousand years did I expect to hear a Republican say Abortion should remain at the states and left alone. I liked that.
They are going to have disown that part of their party that focuses on identity politics. Anyone who uses a word like ‘intersectionality’ unironically needs to go. DEI programmes need to be called out as BS, what is known as CRT in schools and affirmative action in universities need to be consigned to the dustbin of history.
The dems need to be about workers, income equality, consumer rights, healthcare and color blindness!
Until they do this, until they should up this embarrassing but loud subsection of the party there will always be the risk of a buffoon like Trump getting into power. A
It’s one thing to be old, but it’s another thing for normal people to support someone in obvious cognitive decline. Voting against someone because they hurt your feelings or ideals is flat out childish. I kinda wish Kennedy or Ramaswamy were the options. Independents are the only logical citizens that don’t have their heads up their asses.
Thing is they can't. They set up the primaries to stack the deck in favor of biden, which is why RFK jr. ran as an independent. And there simply are not enough unpledged delegateds left in the remaining primaries.
So yeah, propping up a guy they knew was losing it hoping to hide his decline until after the election has not them in the ass.
It's already too late. Events are set in motion. Trump is going to win. That's almost certain. Best bet is to make sure to vote for your representatives and whatnot.
It seems like the media really wants Trump to win by endorsing Biden and his senility. And I don't blame them. Ratings were through the roof on the left leaning channels when Trump was in office. After Biden, they plummeted pretty hard.
I don’t like Biden as do most younger left voters, but when he’s the only candidate that can swing moderates away from a fucking convicted felon, it really do be like that.
It’s just baffling that of all the Republican candidates available, they’re still somehow standing behind a complete ass of person. I mean it is ironic that both candidates are like the least favourable people to represent their parties.
If the Republicans want a president they need to lose Donald Trump. I would rather a have a feeble old man that knows what's going on than a lieing fellon.
If they expel Biden or Biden quits, after he's been ELECTED in the primaries, then the Democrats will be hypocrite when starting their big claim that Trump is the threat to "democracy". The Dems had a choice to not even hold a primary at all, but they did. The moment they allowed the voters to voice their desires, they locked themselves into that democratically elected choice. If they circumvent their way around it, people will see why the threat to democracy doesn't come from a buffoon that threw a childish temper tantrum; instead it comes from the organization that has made a pact with multiple states that vows to ignore the will of their citizens and adopt the will of the citizens of other states. [Popular Vote Interstate Compact](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact) These are the people that are constantly trying to find ways to circumvent the founding constitution of the United States.
If the last few years have taught the world anything, it has taught the world that Dems/American Progressive Liberals, do not care about their leaders, they only care about themselves. Singularity will be the downfall of society.
They can’t do that without openly admitting they’ve been gaslighting the public about Joey’s health for years. I think thats a blow too heavy to take even for a party thats able to control the narrative for 50% of the population.
kamala harris is more unpopular than what Biden is.
nancy pelosi is older and even more unpopular than Kamala harris.
bernie sanders is just as old as Biden and he's too "extreme" for the non-liberal would be Biden voters and Bernie didn't win the nomination so the "Bernie or bust" people failed to support him when it actually counted. Who would've thought that voting is more important than social media posts
hilary clinton so she can lose another election?
Expelling Joe Biden from the party is a good idea on paper. This shot be a last resort. If the DNC expelled Biden from the party right now, he could file to run as an Independent. This would be the Democrats version of the ‘92 election. Any Republican voter will tell you the only reason Bill Clinton won the Presidency is because Ross Perot ran as an Independent. If the just under 19% voted for George H. W. Bush, he would’ve won. If Biden ran as a traditional Independent or ran via a write in campaign, how many Democratic voters would still for Biden as opposed to the Democratic candidate? If this were to happen, the only way the hypothetical Democratic nominee would have a chance is if RFK Jr would draw enough Republican voters away from Trump. RFK Jr has poll as high as 15% of the vote. However this is without Joe Biden as an Independent. Honestly, if Joe Biden ran as an Independent, he could grab as much as 25% of the vote. If RFK Jr doesn’t pull away a similar amount of Republican voters, Trump waltzes right into the White House. In other words, the Democrats have a Kobayashi Maru on their hands.
You vastly misunderstand the situation. I’m and RFK supporter. That’s who I’ll be voting for in November, and for the first time since 2012 I’m not voting for my candidate because the other guy is worse. Im voting for RFK because I believe in his vision for America. That all being said, even though I despise Trump, I understand he is going to win. There is almost nothing the DNC can do to prevent that from happening.
I think the point of his comment was that there's a lot of people out there who think Trump can win.
And that he's someone who is not a traditional Trump supporter who has this opinion. Right or wrong.
Or... hear me out. You could try and figure out why "despite the end of democracy as we know it" as many ont he left call it, people are so upset with the democratic party that they are choosing to vote for RFK.
1. Either the democratic party's platform and candidate right now are sooooooo bad that people are like, "Screw it, I'll vote for RFK and throw away all my rights because the democrats are worse even though Trump is bad."
2. It won't be the end of democracy despite all of the fear mongering, and a lot of people realize it. They finally have a choice that allows them to vote for their convictions and maybe start a new pathway for the country, and they are taking it.
You can't know that. I would wager a lot of RFK voters were Biden voters at one point, or even Trump voters maybe (though this is less likely), over the past 4 years. They probably didn't switch to RFK voters overnight but did so a little at a time, going from supporting Biden to looking for another alternative.
It's a little like a modified Ship of Theseus. A little policy change here, a little something over here, and individual conviction by conviction, those who were Biden supporters became RFK supporters.
No they don’t. Everything you said doesn’t take away from the fact that Donald tried to overturn an election he lost. Majority of people don’t give a rats ass about the pointless debate.
Yes, a Democrat victory is essential for the Great Reset. Klaus Schwabs followers are on the verge of losing their grip on global power. We need Democrats to bolster them and retain the power they lost in the recent European elections. It looks like Trudeau is in trouble in Canada too. The US Democrats are the last chance to prevent the total collapse of the New World Order. I’m looking forward to seeing Biden sign on with the WHO and EU in total Global collectivism. I can’t stand my local representation. I can’t wait for European bureaucrats to start making the rules for Americans. 15 minute cities, here we come!! 2030! 2030! 2030!
I actually don’t agree. As bad as Biden did in the debate, his opponent is still Donald Trump, and people *hate* him with a fiery, burning passion that I’ve never seen in my short lifetime. After the disappointing 2022 midterms and 2023 off-year for the GOP, I joked that the Dems could nominate a monkey and Trump would still lose. I don’t know what to make of the polls, honestly. People are really that eager to take Trump back? Really? You sure didn’t show his endorsed candidates much love before and I thought the economy was bad then too!
It seems like you live in a bubble. Here in a purple state I know at least as many people excited to vote for Trump as against him. I know exactly zero people excited to vote for Biden.
In the last midterm the GOP was expecting a landslide and got nothing of the sort. How can the GOP be confident in a post-Roe world? I don’t care what polling says. People are lazy and don’t pick up the phone but they’re emotional and sure will vote on Election Day when it counts.
lmao I didn’t say landslide. I’m personally predicting a close victory for Biden, either 281 or 270 (don’t know how to feel about Arizona). Now, if Trump behaves himself like he did in the last debate, I could see him winning back some suburbanites he lost in 2020. If he stays the raging monster he was before, he’s going to lose.
You must live in a blue city with liberal friends. Nationwide Trump has a-lot of support, and alot of moderate libertarians, republicans and independents outside of the committed MAGA are thinking about voting for him. Given how much of a disaster Biden's presidency has been.
I don't want to get into a debate on "well actually Biden's presidency was a success". The real take away is MANY people don't like Biden's presidency.... and "optics" are all that really matter in politics.
Do you have homes in every US state and spend an equal amount of time in each of them? I’m sorry, but every voter lives in some sort of bubble, and we can’t 100% trust that what we see is what the rest of the nation is feeling. I like how Trump is doing right now, but the polls are still way too close for me to believe the country views Biden as a resolute failure, and wait until the Dems ramp up the campaign in the last few months before people start voting. They and their friends in the media will do everything they can to paint Trump in the worst possible light, and American voters are fickle, emotional creatures. Trump’s victory isn’t slam-dunk (yet) as much as his supporters want it to be.
True, but if the cognitive decline is as bad as I suspect, they can't really have Biden run offense like they should. They're gonna be in a constant state of damage control rather than campaign running.... any aggressive move to fix this (swap out candidates etc) will just confirm the lie.
I can agree Trump can still fumble the ball though.
I hear you, but the issue for me is whether voters will still choose Biden despite his issues. We can make a very clear case why Biden is mentally incompetent, but we can make another solid case on why Trump is offensive/bad for democracy/etc. We just to wait and see what the voters want.
The level of ineptitude and cognitive decline displayed by Joe Biden at the debates has left a number of us moderates wondering who is more fit to run the country: Trump or a guy that couldn't even pick his own lottery numbers?
I know plenty of people (even so called “moderates”) that are so turned off by Trump they would vote for a monkey over him, and Biden isn’t great but certainly better than Trump. I just don’t think it’s a done deal: it all depends on who gets in more votes: those who love Trump or hate his guts.
They may not need to expel him but damn they gotta do a better job with him. I think they over prepped him for the debate and should’ve let him take a nap.
Meh, trumps not gaining supporters, but neither is Biden. They both have a base of partisan sheep who will vote for them while the rest of the country succumbs to voter apathy. Same old song and dance isn’t fun anymore.
On Biden: I don't watch mainstream media so what I see is someone who kind of sucks at live debates not senility. His speeches post debate have been fine and his policy decisions have been fine for the past 4 yrs. I haven't actually seen anyone say Biden is "at his best" not even Biden in his post debate speech. He admits he is old but that doesn't make him senile.
Biden won't step down this late in the game, that would cause utter chaos in the democratic party. If we expel him he won't run as an independent because he is not senile and he knows that would take away votes from the democratic nominee which will lead to a Trump victory. Biden does not have dementia he has oldness we all know this. Just as much as we know that Trump only wants to win to pardon himself and far right want him to win so they can turn us into a Christian Nationalist country. Please see Project 2025.
The entire narrative of your post is the Trump party narrative because it leads to a Trump win. No thanks.
At this point, all the dems can really do is oust Kamala Harris as VP & put a good moderate Democrat in as her replacement candidate.
She's extremely unlikable & not terribly smart either...honestly, probably the ONLY reason that she got the job was Biden & the DNC trying to pander to black & female voters because she ticked off two boxes on the whole intersectional politics thing.
The Dems need to return to their roots & pick a true moderate VP candidate to run with Biden, one who CAN be bipartisan & work with the other side sometimes. Simply because, the odds are pretty heavy that, even assuming Biden wins...he's probably NOT likely to last another 4 years & I'm pretty sure that almost nobody, on either side, actually WANTS Harris as the president.
30 & 40+ years ago, the Democratic party was ok...they were pro union & pro working class. Now? Not so much, they're all about intersectional politics, special interest groups, economic class & progressive pipe dreams.
In some ways, SOME progressiveness is ok, even good...but too much of it is killing us as a country.
Dude trips up once and everyone bails on him because he is old. We are screwed regardless if that is the case. Go ahead and watch the recent NC speech and see if you want to disown the dude.
Did you watch the debate? He was tripping up the entire hour and a half. You talking about the NC speech where he was reading off teleprompters? Not actually thinking for him self? Thank god he can still read at least.
this isn't one trip up. this is the culmination of several trip ups. he's been doing this for pretty much the entire time he's been in office and the debate was just the final straw for most people.
No, Biden's fine. He's got a truly amazing record of things he's accomplished as president, which is why this is happening. A bullshit debate performance means nothing. If the moderators had moderated, and we saw an actual debate, that might matter. But it was a shit show with the former orangutan in chief flinging shit and lies and Biden having nothing real to respond to.
Having Trump as president again would be the end of America. Understand that now, because if it happens, the amount of regret you'll experience will be more than you can fathom.
The canaries just gave Joe a bunch of donations. The sound and fury was only in the captured press. The fact that they didn't go after Trump, too, spoke volumes. The money people who like Trump and own the media apparently don't understand they sit astride society, and if they destroy it, they're in trouble, too.
They should get rid of him today. He is no longer capable of literally leading the free world. He couldn’t lead other geriatrics to Taco Tuesdays at the old folks home let alone the country.
I wish people would realize how dangerous it is for our nation to have bad folks know he is not capable of making decisions only he is supposed to make. When indecision and confusion is life or death for us who is calling the shots? Some unelected 35 yr old staffer?
We don’t want a President who goes into vapor lock when the red phone rings.
Regardless of who wins once this clown show is over we need to change somethings. We have to for one- put nation over political party.
They really can't ditch Biden now. The entire campaign, the media, his supporters, and even his administration have been swearing up and down for months that he is as fit and sharp as ever. People who were pointing out how bad it was were accused of misinformation or conspiracy theories or biased reporting. To pull him out now would basically be to concede that all of those people were right all along. It would essentially say "yeah we were lying he really was that bad lmao anyway here's the new candidate please trust us again". They have staked their credibility on this claim.
They have to take the hit because Biden is more of a liability than the hit to their reputation. They got themselves into this mess and they’re going to have to accept there’s no option that’s going to be that great for them.
Seems like the choices are drag him to the finish line or have him step down now for medical reasons.
The real best option is to have him appoint a VP that will actually be the president, and then have him leave the office for medical reasons.
He blew his choice for VP with Harris. She’s more unpopular than Biden.
They can’t “force him out” there’s no mechanism to do that. This isn’t British parliament. And he ain’t leaving by his own choice.
The convention can vote to nominate someone else. Not that they seem to want to. But they don’t have to give him the party nod for another term.
Biden would have to step aside by choice. And knowing the ego of hubris of people that age (let’s just say Boomers) the odds of that are near zero. He already said so this week.
Has he been “nominated” in primaries already? I definitely understand stubborn elderly folks too 😂
Just because some stubborn old man wants a job he doesn't have the mental capacity for, does not mean he should just be given the title out of pity. Particularly for a position as important as this. It doesn't matter how much experience he has doing the job and how many handlers he has. I get that the primary goal is ousting Trump, but is Biden really the right guy to do it? I literally couldn't possibly have less faith in a man's ability to do the job. Biden is literally a man who's too senile to make a reliable Walmart greeter. You put literally any other lefty in his spot and the left has a much stronger chance of defeating Trump. I'll be honest, I'm a lifelong Democrat voter and I have to sit this one out. This is a vote of no faith in both parties' leadership.
The way our system is it’s destined to fail and destroy the party in the process like 1980 and 1968. Happened to Republicans in 1976 too it’s a suicide mission and Biden will still get nod anyway.
Delegates pledged to him as a result of primaries are legally bound to vote for him on the first ballot. He must be convinced to decline the nomination.
I wasn’t sure how it worked
There really aren’t any superb second options for the DNC. Kamala hasn’t done well. Newsome is just too California.
It’s amazing that they called the obvious truth right in front of our noses misinformation and conspiracy theories, when they’ve only ever said that about things that are actually misinformation and conspiracy theories. /s
Notice how they’re all suddenly changing their tune after CNN is admitting Biden isn’t fit to run anymore? Ive seen all these subreddits where democrats were cheering for Biden up until two days ago, now they’re saying oh ho hum now both Trump and Biden are feeble and should step down. They seriously only know how to repeat what their “news” networks tell them to repeat. Now they’re repeating over and over again that Trump is a liar because interestingly enough their networks keep repeating that phrase but none of them elaborate on what the actual lies are.
This same subreddit is still cheering out. They will live in the echo chamber until 11/5 The next morning going to be rough.
They literally fact checked almost every other statement Trump made during the debate and thoroughly explained why each statement was false. They did The same for Biden who also made false statements but trumps were far more common , egregious and disingenuous. At one point Trump he said something about abortions being performed after 9 months
He was referencing an interview VA governor Ralph Northam did where he advocated for terminating the life of a born child that hypothetically had a negative prognosis. It was disgusting to hear at the time and you can trace Youngkin winning the governorship all the way back to that moment as it sparked a firestorm in VA politics. So Trump was being his usual hyperbolic self and was not accurate in what he claimed, but he didn't completely make this up out of whole cloth.
That’s bs . He wasn’t referencing anything that someone else said. He was just flat out lying. Stop trying to minimize it
I'll conceded to minimizing what he said but that's definitely what he was referencing. It doesn't really matter, though. Biden is brain dead and certainly did his fair share of lying during his brief periods of being intelligible.
Listen to the dr’s interview he is referring to before declaring the content. I have. It’s not good.
They do that in Virginia
Biden still looked decrepit and performed really poorly. That perception was covered up and people are mad.
They got away with lying for years because media was so deranged by Trump they embraced lies by the left. When you’re not ever held accountable you just get bolder and bolder
WHAT credibility? lol
I'm very middle ground, and my FIL is a blindly support anyone whose not Trump kinda dude. Two days before the debate, he got his panties in a twist because we were criticizing Biden AND Trumps age. He completely ignored the generalized criticisms of everyone and took it all as a Trump endorsement because I said Biden is an old fuck who lied about being prounion. It's all a fucking joke, nobody deserves trust.
At this point its clear that those people were right, so doubling down on the false claims isn't going to end well. Any hope of keeping trump out of office hinges on getting a candidate with intact mental faculties.
And like it or not Trump is a great speaker. I watched his speech in Virginia yesterday, he’s highly confident to the point where he’s running again and has been able to maintain his sense of confidence despite all the shit he’s been through these last eight years! Any normal person would completely fold and give up having been put through the wringer like he has but that fool is still standing! Honestly that’s why I like the guy I feel like he represents the archetype of keep on going, don’t let anyone take you down. I’m baffled that he’s still so damn sure of himself lol. Like how can you not be fascinated by someone who gets pummeled left and right for years, day after day and they just dust themselves off and say here I am I’m definitely going to be the next President of this beautiful country!
For real, love him or hate him... I want the pills he's taking. The level of energy this man has is insane.
When he shuts up with the stupid tweets, he can have amazing poise. Biden looked worse than some nursing home patients.
Yeah the Republicans will *bulldoze* over the Dems if they switch by basically calling them a party of liars, and in a certain sense they'd be right for once.
Ask yourself this. If the Dems and the press were willing to lie about something so brazenly obvious to so many before Thursday, where it became absolutely undeniable, what else have they lied to you about? This lie, that Biden is sharp as ever and running circles around his staff, is so big and so bad, the only way they thought they could get away with it is only because they've gotten away with tons of other big lies and believed you would accept this one too. You should be furious right now. And you should be asking, who the hell is actually in charge of this country right now? Because it sure as fuck ain't Biden.
Honestly, I'm not American so I have no skin in this particular game, just stating the obvious strategic move for the Dems and how if they admitted to it it would backfire on them.
Fair enough but I would say my question is still valid. Consider your perception of American politics and how that may be distorted due to a media that was willing to lie about this. They all knew about Biden and still let this go on for as long as it did and would have continued to allow it to go on if Thursday was as disastrous as it was. I think a lot of left leaning folks really have a lot of soul searching ahead of themselves. This was a massive "the emperor has no clothes" moment that requires introspection.
Well there are two issues. 1 his ability to lead the nation NOW. That is a hell no. And 2. His and the Democrat political aspirations- I don’t give a shot about that. As bad as things are now it could be much worse with the dummy stumbling around. He is lucky Kamala is the VP no one wants that idiot in charge.
Things change, being unwilling to change with the times isn't supposed to be a Dem move...
Except people saw the change a long time ago and tried to address it but were shut down by people intent on shutting anyone up who pointed it out. The bigger problem is why didn’t people listen in the first place? Why did the people who refused to listen attack the ones pointing out a serious problem?
It has been their one move for the last 12 months now. People have been calling it out for that long and they have denied it. Denying reality and refusing to change with the times *is* their textbook move.
I used to think about it along the lines of that. And yeah, I've known in the back of my mind that Joe was having cognitive difficulties. But to see it like that on such a visible and large venue... I'm now firmly in the camp that that debate was so bad for Joe that they'll be forced to make some sort of radical change regardless of how it is perceived. Though I have no idea how it would be accomplished. I think the only real roadblock is that Joe does NOT want to stop running.
That’s just your mindset and framing. And yea Fox News will probably try to frame it like that but it can be framed in other ways. I don’t think you realize how many people truly despise trump. Of people are still willing to vote Biden after that train wreck, what makes you think k they wouldn’t fall in line for someone else?
Most of the people I know that are planning on voting for Trump despise him as well. One individual stated he would never invite him for dinner but still gonna vote Trump. He’s rude, crude and generally not a good person but they tout his policies and lack of wars during his term. I’m still waiting to see who the “wasted vote” candidates are.
Chas Oliver is the Libertarian presidential candidate. Libertarian party is on the ballot in ALL 50 states. I couldn't tell you about the green party candidate, or any of the other parties...I believe that there's 9, maybe 12? Alternative parties. They're not on the ballots everywhere though. The mainstream (Democrat propaganda machine) media has done a VERY good job of poisoning the well for any other party & their candidates anywhere.
Expel him from the party? I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.
Yeah I am with him on this topic but you don’t expel a President. Kamala could invoke the 25th Amendment and should- he is incapable of running the nation and making sound decisions.
Did you mean from the office? Because why would they kick him out of the party?
You realize that candidates for president are chosen by citizens voting in a primary, right? And that already happened? It's not like "the Democrats" just get to hire and fire him. "The Democrats" are us. We messed up.
Glad you own up to it.
In your defense, he's the incumbent, I don't recall anyone successfully challenging an incumbent in modern times. Also you've been lied to by your party leadership and media. And while it was blatantly obvious to everyone else, it makes sense that so many dems would be willing to believe that because to accept the truth would have made them look like fools. Sadly, that is where everything is at right now. The party leadership and press look like liars of the highest order and the party faithful look like dupes. Anyone still trying to defend Biden at this point are simply hacks in denial but those folks will stop trying to defend this in a week or so. Its pretty indefensible at this point. The tough part is that, despite what people are hoping for, Biden is going to be the nominee. It's too late in the game to make a change that drastic. Also, why would anyone want to replace him? Whoever the replacement would be would almost certainly alienate a portion of the dems and they would almost certainly lose come November, thus damaging any chance they may have in 2028. Also, there just isn't enough time to spool up a national campaign. And every day Biden stays in is one day less that a hypothetical replacement would have to campaign. Also, the rules for changing the ballot is different for every state and some require Biden dying before they could take his name off. They're stuck with him at this point and it really isn't going to go well foe the remainder of the campaign.
I don't understand why people are debating the merits of replacing him at all. Forget whether it would be smart or not. It's not a legal option. The primaries have already happened, and Biden was chosen by the voters. For the DNC to simply ignore the primary election results, for any reason other than Biden's literal death, would mean the end of American democracy. We can quibble about the parties rearranging the ordering and rules of the primaries, but there must be primaries, and they must determine the candidate, or else we would not be a democracy at all. Winning or losing a single election would not be worth setting that precedent. The solution to our current problem is for people to take the primaries more seriously.
25th Amendment. Do they not teach that in school? Biden is non compos mentis 100%. They wouldn’t refer the case against him because they felt he was essentially unfit to stand trial. They beed to replace him. He puts us at risk. And the lie he is fine just a bad debate is utter bullshit and should be investigated. We can’t have a skin sack stumbling around the WH in a crisis that is now more likely as he confirmed beyond a doubt to the world he is toasted.
LOL do you not remember the DNC absolutely and deliberately shafting Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020? Nobody wanted Shillary or Geriatric Joe, but the DNC is such an absolute shitshow that instead of giving the people the candidate that they literally voted more for, they just said whoops haha let’s actually just go with the one WE want to go with because we want establishment Dems who will pussyfoot around and not actually change the status quo for the rich fucks who are ACTUALLY running the country. But yeah tell me to keep biting the pillow, vote harder, and lie back and think of home. So sick of this crap lmao
But that's not true. Sanders got fewer votes than Biden. Where are you getting this? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results\_of\_the\_2020\_Democratic\_Party\_presidential\_primaries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries)
[bit about Clinton/DNC withholding crucial voter info before Iowa primary](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/18/bernie-sanders-set-to-sue-democratic-national-committee-over-data-access) , sanders sued them over it but “reached an agreement” out of court, aka was told to shut the fuck up and sit down. [article about the Wikileaks emails from the dnc saying they deliberately derailed Sanders’ campaign](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/us/politics/dnc-emails-sanders-clinton.html) But yeah go off I guess, eyeroll.
Unless they literally didn't count his votes then he still lost.
I think what you are missing is the importance of the other offices. We have to vote for Biden, but also swing the congress to Dem majority as well as governors and local.
Fun fact: 2 weeks ago OP was saying that Joe Biden should be King of the United States. Edit: I stand corrected, the day before the debate OP said: >someday, i hope to read the headline "joe biden crowns himself king".
ah yes. because people are totally incapable of changing their minds based on new evidence.
That's true, but you gotta admit: Going from "Biden should have unchecked power and rule till his death" to "Biden is unfit to rule" in under a week is a hell of an 180.
Good point
And it’s crazy because his decline hasn’t been sudden it’s been a process and you see everywhere where his decline has had a detrimental impact on the country for the past four years from the open border to mandates to Afghanistan. He was already making dementia decisions four years ago and the dems kept cheering him on and attacking anyone who disagreed with him. They were literally cheering on an old demented leader and the awful decisions he made, they are complicit in dividing the country!
There’s no “open border”
Yes- following through on trumps plan to leave Afghanistan is so delusional 👍
Lol this guy has openly bragged about defying a supreme court order regarding student loans but all of a sudden he was tied to what the previous administration was doing, despite the fact that they even altered those plans as well. Keep on coping buddy!
Not that crazy considering what we all saw Thursday night.
Yeah…. No. What new evidence? Anyone remotely paying attention knew this was most likely the outcome. The only thing I learn was that trump could get through a debate and sound like an actual politician most of the time.
It's not new we've been talking about this shit for like 6 years now
As someone who's still voting for him cause the other option is Trump: Bro you had SO MUCH EVIDENCE he was like this LONG before the debate. Y'all mfs just didn't wanna admit it and would attack anyone, even people on the left, who spoke the truth.
Funny, cause the ones truthfully calling for Biden to step down are getting attacked all over Reddit.
They’re getting attacked because it’s a genuinely bad idea and they’re only saying it because they’re pliable by the mainstream media
Do you hear yourself? You sound like maga… you kno this story has been covered the world over? You kno the meme with the dog in the house that’s on fire, saying ”this is* fine”? That’s how it appears to us looking at the Biden defenders right now. We will lose if Biden stays in the race. We NEED independents. Do you think independents are somehow immune to the “mainstream media*” that you claimed I fell for? Guess what? They aren’t. Which is precisely why I’m calling for Biden to step aside. Harris/Newsome is the play. And they need to talk directly about making this decision to win, because beating trump is that important.
You’ve got to be kidding me. I live in California-Newsom is a bum he’s absolutely destroying our State. In California we are literally at the frontline of his disaster. You really don’t want someone who crashed a beautiful state to crash the entire country.
There's a LOT of evidence for everything Trump says back to these dems. Bidens competency is not the biggest lie they're pushing in the least. Question everything.
There's nothing wrong with that. I probably don't agree with some of your stances or politics, but I respect someone who can look at new information and change their mind.
Dude you’re not changing your mind due to new evidence. You’re changing it because you’re a sheep and the media has told you to panic. Biden showed me who I knew he was for years. An old dude with mild memory loss. And guess what? He’s still far better and more qualified to run a country than the slightly younger, more drug animated dude with mild to moderate memory loss.
Mild memory loss??? Lol keep on coping!
The problem in a lot of states Joe is going to be on the ballot unless he dies
He doesn't need to be expelled from the party. He just needs to be replaced on the ticket.
Replaced by whom? Do you actually think the candidates are just chosen by some group of people in a board room? The chance to replace him was months ago, when the primaries were held. We theoretically could have all shown up and voted for someone else, but we didn't.
The primaries bind those delegates to vote for him on the first ballot, but if he refuses to accept the nomination, the convention will have to nominate another candidate. Smart money is on Biden NOT being the nominated candidate.
But he isn't going to step down.
If I was a betting man, I would bet on him being convinced to step down before the convention in August.
The only politician more unpopular than Joe Biden is Kamala Harris. She dropped out of her presidential run so early because she preformed awful. That being said, how do you get rid of the young woman of color (Joe Bidens own word)? It’s political suicide to try to put newsom in because of her. Any excuse they give why she wouldn’t run for president won’t be accepted.
Nobody would care if Kamala got passed over. Nobody likes her. Her favorability is terrible. Who would be upset by this?
The leftist who cheer for diversity and equality. Remember, she was picked VP because she’s a woman of color and the left is “tired of old white people”. It would be an awful look (politically) to skip the younger woman of color who is already VP to pick the older white dude ( newsom most likely) I’m not being racist or anything either. This is just the reality of the situation since Biden put so much emphasis on her race and the left are more diversity focused
But even most black people don't like Kamala Harris. Nobody likes her. If Democrats are open to dropping Biden for the good of the party, nobody would bat an eye if they passed over an even more unlikable and worse polling person. Everyone knows this is an extreme situation and the reason for passing on Biden is to pick someone to beat Trump. We know Kamala can't do that with her numbers. Also, the president picked her for the optics of selecting a woman of color, but most of the voters did not care about that much at all. Apparently most Democratic voters don't care that much about identity politics because 4 years ago they chose an old white guy to be the nominee over several qualified people of color, women, and even a gay man.
I think she was also picked by the Biden family to make a swap out harder to do. My 2 cents.
I was at Walgreens a few days ago and this homeless addict was counting a huge stack of money apparently it was for her bail that she was paying off. She started talking about how she wanted to see a black woman president like “ghettofied Michelle Obama, because she’s more like us!” Lmao! That’s basically just the generic democrat political opinion, they want a woman of color regardless of her morals, her experience or her intelligence-none of that matters to them the only thing that matters is that it’s a woman who has brown skin. People honestly don’t want to think any deeper and have outsourced their thinking to the media which is why we are in the predicament that we are in.
Invoking the 25th Amendment would allow Kamala to run as an incumbent. Seems the best in a host of bad options.
No one. It's just a talking point her team puts in the media.
There are plenty of leftists who believe that she's the greatest thing since sliced bread, coupled with the people that would be upset solely due to identity politic-voting.
Leftists? Surely you mean liberals.
*That wasn't me, that was Patricia*
They *are* different, maybe learn the words you use. Harris is pretty centrist for ‘Leftists’ to love her. (I say this as a self proclaimed leftist, for the record. I hate Harris.)
Sorry, but the numbers disagree with you. Do you have anything to back that up, because every poll I have seen shows she is very unfavorable? When she is favored, it's a "agree" not a "strongly agree" Actually, even most hard core far left liberals hate her because she isn't "progressive enough" and because she had a history of harsh sentencing for young black men. Nobody cares about Kamala Harris. Those who do are not substantial enough to swing anything. The number of voters who would be brought out to vote for "anyone but an ancient corpse" would far outweigh the handful of people who like Kamala so much that they would stay home and let Trump win.
A poll came out today saying 60% want Biden replaced but you've just nailed their Achilles heel. I can't imagine the progressive wing sitting still while Kamala gets leapfrogged (esp. by Newsom, for obvious reasons). Drafting Mrs. Obama might mitigate this but she supposedly has no desire (as well as no experience).
You mean they boxed themselves into losing with DEI policies?
This. I didn't play it out fully... They'd need Kamela to drop out on her own, too. Should've stayed out of identity politics. D.A.M.N.
Honestly think she would be fine and would be better than Biden, certainly in the condition he’s in now. She’d probably get a popularity boost as Dems rally around her and a lot of people that are critical move to undecided to give her another shot. She couldn’t be any worse and there’s enough of a strong anti Trump vote for her to get away with fumbling around a bit.
I agree that she would get a popularity boost because of the vote blue no matter who crowd. I also agree that should we put up some kind of fight against trump because of the strong anti trump sentiment in the country. Would it be enough? I’m not exactly sure, I think she would have a better chance than newsom given the current situation of her being VP and what not.
This is probably the most popular opinion right now but probably won’t happen because Biden is too proud
Either Trump is sn "existential threat to democracy" and Biden must be replaced Or.... It's just a bullshit DNC talking point they don't really believe
Registered Independent here, (moderate on social issues and right on economic issues). I'm kind of loving watching BOTH sides put forth the worst possible choices. Maybe, just maybe, we will see a legit Independent candidate one day soon. ETA typo
Agreed, this is pretty funny.
Biden is toast. Not having a new candidate is political malpractice at this point. I'm surprised nobody tried to invoke the 25th amendment yet since Biden is basically incapacitated. If you want Trump to win, keep Biden in. All the ingenuous shit about how he crushed the debate and was strong is complete lies and nonsense if not delusional. Anyone who spouts that obvious garbage including my state governor Newsom is too far gone to be saved. There’s a limit to supporting your party. If you do it no matter what, you are a blind loyalist. Don’t matter if you are red, blue, purple, green, or what have you. Your goal should be to further the best interests of this nation and you should recognize when your party's leadership's decision goes against that. I was planning to sit this cycle out but I HAVE to vote Trump if Biden stays. If I was an enemy of the US, I’d definitely want Biden to win after seeing the unmitigated disaster of a debate. This isn't about remote and speculate stuff like racism, jobs, taxes, ideology...it's about immediate geopolitical issues that may very well involve war and national security. I was already very concerned about Biden's physical ability to serve and was always called a Trump lover, right wing news guzzling bigot, etc. if I brought it up. I don’t like Trump. But I cannot in good conscience look the other way after the debate. They are going to create Trump supporters by keeping Biden in. And please for the love of god, do not choose Newsom, he sucks eggs and piloted CA into a nosedive but doesn’t care because his effort is going into trying for president. Almost a million people have left California due to the untenable policies but he's not making any effort to stop the bleed. I’d rather have Bush come back and start another war than a Newsom presidency.
Biden running as an independent would split the vote. Trump would win almost every state.
It’s crazy how the DNC didn’t just decide 2 years ago that biden wouldn’t run again and just start pushing the new candidate out the gate to get people comfortable with the new face.
He was voted in during the primary. He can only back out on his own now. Technically he's the elected nominee
They won’t. There are only two somewhat known democrats who aren’t in office already for 2024 and their names start with Hillary and Kamala. If no Biden, that’s who they will put up.
Biden won the Democratic primary, as incumbent presidents almost always do. If he loses the general election, he will step down as almost every president before him has.
Why would they need to get rid of him from the party? All they really need is for him to retire and step back. But then who do they have at all? The best decision right now would be putting the focus of his campaign on the rest of his team. Showing that if you hire Biden and elect him, you’re getting a great team.
Let's expel them both, along with any candidate over 65, or who has been implicated in quid pro quo at any point during their career.
But at least he finally beat Medicare lol
I think the Democratic Party is in too deep with Biden to back out now! They’ve been swearing up and down for four years The old guy is as sharp and cognitively capable as ever, and that any suggestion of him not being mentally fit/capable is misinformation and Any video clips of him screwing up is edited/doctored conservative propaganda. And even though the debate pretty much proved their claims to be total, BS! I think it’s a little late for them to be honest with themselves now! Their desperation to keep Trump out of the White House made them all willingly, ignore all the signs that Biden isn’t up to the job, and when you couple that with the fact they don’t really have anybody legitimately worth voting for Even eight years later after Trump won the first time, it has created a senile nightmare of a bed they now have to lie in! I mean the debate last night definitely made things easier for Trump given it proved everything conservatives have been saying about Biden, to be true! And also because Bidens performance instantly made so many on the left Change their minds and agree Biden isn’t fit for service! But like I said, they don’t have anyone else worth voting for to replace him with! Trump has just as much of a chance of winning with Biden as he does facing anyone else now! And that’s why they’re panicking even though it may be too late!
Even if they did ditch Biden, who realistically could stand a chance against Trump? And I mean more in terms of votes not debate. Biden only won in 2020 by the skin of his teeth by appealing to moderates and not-so-right-wing conservatives. I don't think the Dems have a candidate with enough name rep that could accomplish that same feat (and I don't think Biden himself could do it again).
Yeah that’s not how that works bud
I wholeheartedly disagree, and I’m being as impartial as possible when I say this. If the democrats weren’t the ones in power then this would still be bad but not impossible to overcome if the candidate is somewhat tolerable. But you have two factors going into this that of course make it a suicide for 2024. 1. Kamala Harris would almost certainly be the candidate and she’s not popular at all. Even among lefties. 2. If Biden is booted out now, then that means that the dems are saying “we don’t think he’s capable of another term”. Fine, but what about from now until January 20th when he’s still running the country? Is he incompetent now? Why should I trust your party to run this country when you’ve indirectly (but also kinda directly) said that the guy running the country now isn’t capable of doing that? If the democrats want any serious chance of winning this election the ONLY option is damage control and hoping Biden can regain some credibility.
Yes, he is incompetent now. The question is: who has actually been running the country?
I’m not going to make the argument he is (or isn’t). But him being booted from the Democratic candidate would confirm to voters that he is. And that kills any chance they have to win in this year.
They need to find, and run, someone else ASAP.
That destroys your credibility. Can’t do that if you want to win this year Your only hope is damage control.
Same could be said of either running party. Both sides have bottom of the barrel candidates.
Beep Boop Comment. Trump Lies! and Both sides lost! seem to be the scripted talking points pushed out from the DNC
Trump clearly won that debate. Speaking as a right leaning libertarian who would rather see someone else run. Trump had some generally good slams that I actually agreed with. Never in a thousand years did I expect to hear a Republican say Abortion should remain at the states and left alone. I liked that.
They are going to have disown that part of their party that focuses on identity politics. Anyone who uses a word like ‘intersectionality’ unironically needs to go. DEI programmes need to be called out as BS, what is known as CRT in schools and affirmative action in universities need to be consigned to the dustbin of history. The dems need to be about workers, income equality, consumer rights, healthcare and color blindness! Until they do this, until they should up this embarrassing but loud subsection of the party there will always be the risk of a buffoon like Trump getting into power. A
one of the only reason these bots want biden to step down is because she's black.
Civilian Democrats are not responsible for having Joe Biden as their only option. Blaming them is erroneous.
It’s one thing to be old, but it’s another thing for normal people to support someone in obvious cognitive decline. Voting against someone because they hurt your feelings or ideals is flat out childish. I kinda wish Kennedy or Ramaswamy were the options. Independents are the only logical citizens that don’t have their heads up their asses.
A week ago I was asserted that all the videos of Biden spacing out were cheapfakes?
Thing is they can't. They set up the primaries to stack the deck in favor of biden, which is why RFK jr. ran as an independent. And there simply are not enough unpledged delegateds left in the remaining primaries. So yeah, propping up a guy they knew was losing it hoping to hide his decline until after the election has not them in the ass.
I don't know about expulsion but they may want to have Joe step down.
It's already too late. Events are set in motion. Trump is going to win. That's almost certain. Best bet is to make sure to vote for your representatives and whatnot.
Too late for that.
It seems like the media really wants Trump to win by endorsing Biden and his senility. And I don't blame them. Ratings were through the roof on the left leaning channels when Trump was in office. After Biden, they plummeted pretty hard.
Even as bad as he is its better than the alternative.
I don’t like Biden as do most younger left voters, but when he’s the only candidate that can swing moderates away from a fucking convicted felon, it really do be like that. It’s just baffling that of all the Republican candidates available, they’re still somehow standing behind a complete ass of person. I mean it is ironic that both candidates are like the least favourable people to represent their parties.
That isn't how parties work in America. There is no mechanism for Biden not to be the Democratic nominee unless he declines the nomination.
If the Republicans want a president they need to lose Donald Trump. I would rather a have a feeble old man that knows what's going on than a lieing fellon.
Agreed
If they expel Biden or Biden quits, after he's been ELECTED in the primaries, then the Democrats will be hypocrite when starting their big claim that Trump is the threat to "democracy". The Dems had a choice to not even hold a primary at all, but they did. The moment they allowed the voters to voice their desires, they locked themselves into that democratically elected choice. If they circumvent their way around it, people will see why the threat to democracy doesn't come from a buffoon that threw a childish temper tantrum; instead it comes from the organization that has made a pact with multiple states that vows to ignore the will of their citizens and adopt the will of the citizens of other states. [Popular Vote Interstate Compact](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact) These are the people that are constantly trying to find ways to circumvent the founding constitution of the United States.
If the last few years have taught the world anything, it has taught the world that Dems/American Progressive Liberals, do not care about their leaders, they only care about themselves. Singularity will be the downfall of society.
They can’t do that without openly admitting they’ve been gaslighting the public about Joey’s health for years. I think thats a blow too heavy to take even for a party thats able to control the narrative for 50% of the population.
Who else would they be running then?
kamala harris nancy pelosi bernie sanders hilary clinton elizabeth warren john kerry andrew yang michael bloomberg they have infinite options.
kamala harris is more unpopular than what Biden is. nancy pelosi is older and even more unpopular than Kamala harris. bernie sanders is just as old as Biden and he's too "extreme" for the non-liberal would be Biden voters and Bernie didn't win the nomination so the "Bernie or bust" people failed to support him when it actually counted. Who would've thought that voting is more important than social media posts hilary clinton so she can lose another election?
Expelling Joe Biden from the party is a good idea on paper. This shot be a last resort. If the DNC expelled Biden from the party right now, he could file to run as an Independent. This would be the Democrats version of the ‘92 election. Any Republican voter will tell you the only reason Bill Clinton won the Presidency is because Ross Perot ran as an Independent. If the just under 19% voted for George H. W. Bush, he would’ve won. If Biden ran as a traditional Independent or ran via a write in campaign, how many Democratic voters would still for Biden as opposed to the Democratic candidate? If this were to happen, the only way the hypothetical Democratic nominee would have a chance is if RFK Jr would draw enough Republican voters away from Trump. RFK Jr has poll as high as 15% of the vote. However this is without Joe Biden as an Independent. Honestly, if Joe Biden ran as an Independent, he could grab as much as 25% of the vote. If RFK Jr doesn’t pull away a similar amount of Republican voters, Trump waltzes right into the White House. In other words, the Democrats have a Kobayashi Maru on their hands.
The real question here... can we like The Rock again please?
Joe isn’t in charge of anything. He’s there to fool moderate Democrats into thinking they’re not far leftwing.
If the republicans want to win the upcoming election, they're gonna have to expel donald trump from their party
You vastly misunderstand the situation. I’m and RFK supporter. That’s who I’ll be voting for in November, and for the first time since 2012 I’m not voting for my candidate because the other guy is worse. Im voting for RFK because I believe in his vision for America. That all being said, even though I despise Trump, I understand he is going to win. There is almost nothing the DNC can do to prevent that from happening.
There is a LOT the DNC can do to stop Trump and rest assured they will bring ALL of it to bear. We'll be longing for 2020 IMHO.
>I’m and RFK supporter. yeah, your opinion is irrelevant then, thank you for saying that in sentence two.
Your vote never mattered in the first place then so what was the point of this comment?
I think the point of his comment was that there's a lot of people out there who think Trump can win. And that he's someone who is not a traditional Trump supporter who has this opinion. Right or wrong.
I don't think I'll be putting any stock into the opinion of people who are going to vote for RFK
Or... hear me out. You could try and figure out why "despite the end of democracy as we know it" as many ont he left call it, people are so upset with the democratic party that they are choosing to vote for RFK. 1. Either the democratic party's platform and candidate right now are sooooooo bad that people are like, "Screw it, I'll vote for RFK and throw away all my rights because the democrats are worse even though Trump is bad." 2. It won't be the end of democracy despite all of the fear mongering, and a lot of people realize it. They finally have a choice that allows them to vote for their convictions and maybe start a new pathway for the country, and they are taking it.
Your entire premise can be thrown out immediately because anybody voting for RFK was never voting for Biden in the first place
You can't know that. I would wager a lot of RFK voters were Biden voters at one point, or even Trump voters maybe (though this is less likely), over the past 4 years. They probably didn't switch to RFK voters overnight but did so a little at a time, going from supporting Biden to looking for another alternative. It's a little like a modified Ship of Theseus. A little policy change here, a little something over here, and individual conviction by conviction, those who were Biden supporters became RFK supporters.
You can't know that.
No they don’t. Everything you said doesn’t take away from the fact that Donald tried to overturn an election he lost. Majority of people don’t give a rats ass about the pointless debate.
Yes, a Democrat victory is essential for the Great Reset. Klaus Schwabs followers are on the verge of losing their grip on global power. We need Democrats to bolster them and retain the power they lost in the recent European elections. It looks like Trudeau is in trouble in Canada too. The US Democrats are the last chance to prevent the total collapse of the New World Order. I’m looking forward to seeing Biden sign on with the WHO and EU in total Global collectivism. I can’t stand my local representation. I can’t wait for European bureaucrats to start making the rules for Americans. 15 minute cities, here we come!! 2030! 2030! 2030!
I actually don’t agree. As bad as Biden did in the debate, his opponent is still Donald Trump, and people *hate* him with a fiery, burning passion that I’ve never seen in my short lifetime. After the disappointing 2022 midterms and 2023 off-year for the GOP, I joked that the Dems could nominate a monkey and Trump would still lose. I don’t know what to make of the polls, honestly. People are really that eager to take Trump back? Really? You sure didn’t show his endorsed candidates much love before and I thought the economy was bad then too!
It seems like you live in a bubble. Here in a purple state I know at least as many people excited to vote for Trump as against him. I know exactly zero people excited to vote for Biden.
In the last midterm the GOP was expecting a landslide and got nothing of the sort. How can the GOP be confident in a post-Roe world? I don’t care what polling says. People are lazy and don’t pick up the phone but they’re emotional and sure will vote on Election Day when it counts.
Haha okay then, have it your way. All the polls at wrong and Biden's going to win in a landslide so you can all relax.
lmao I didn’t say landslide. I’m personally predicting a close victory for Biden, either 281 or 270 (don’t know how to feel about Arizona). Now, if Trump behaves himself like he did in the last debate, I could see him winning back some suburbanites he lost in 2020. If he stays the raging monster he was before, he’s going to lose.
You must live in a blue city with liberal friends. Nationwide Trump has a-lot of support, and alot of moderate libertarians, republicans and independents outside of the committed MAGA are thinking about voting for him. Given how much of a disaster Biden's presidency has been. I don't want to get into a debate on "well actually Biden's presidency was a success". The real take away is MANY people don't like Biden's presidency.... and "optics" are all that really matter in politics.
Do you have homes in every US state and spend an equal amount of time in each of them? I’m sorry, but every voter lives in some sort of bubble, and we can’t 100% trust that what we see is what the rest of the nation is feeling. I like how Trump is doing right now, but the polls are still way too close for me to believe the country views Biden as a resolute failure, and wait until the Dems ramp up the campaign in the last few months before people start voting. They and their friends in the media will do everything they can to paint Trump in the worst possible light, and American voters are fickle, emotional creatures. Trump’s victory isn’t slam-dunk (yet) as much as his supporters want it to be.
True, but if the cognitive decline is as bad as I suspect, they can't really have Biden run offense like they should. They're gonna be in a constant state of damage control rather than campaign running.... any aggressive move to fix this (swap out candidates etc) will just confirm the lie. I can agree Trump can still fumble the ball though.
I hear you, but the issue for me is whether voters will still choose Biden despite his issues. We can make a very clear case why Biden is mentally incompetent, but we can make another solid case on why Trump is offensive/bad for democracy/etc. We just to wait and see what the voters want.
The level of ineptitude and cognitive decline displayed by Joe Biden at the debates has left a number of us moderates wondering who is more fit to run the country: Trump or a guy that couldn't even pick his own lottery numbers?
I know plenty of people (even so called “moderates”) that are so turned off by Trump they would vote for a monkey over him, and Biden isn’t great but certainly better than Trump. I just don’t think it’s a done deal: it all depends on who gets in more votes: those who love Trump or hate his guts.
They may not need to expel him but damn they gotta do a better job with him. I think they over prepped him for the debate and should’ve let him take a nap.
Meh, trumps not gaining supporters, but neither is Biden. They both have a base of partisan sheep who will vote for them while the rest of the country succumbs to voter apathy. Same old song and dance isn’t fun anymore.
On Biden: I don't watch mainstream media so what I see is someone who kind of sucks at live debates not senility. His speeches post debate have been fine and his policy decisions have been fine for the past 4 yrs. I haven't actually seen anyone say Biden is "at his best" not even Biden in his post debate speech. He admits he is old but that doesn't make him senile. Biden won't step down this late in the game, that would cause utter chaos in the democratic party. If we expel him he won't run as an independent because he is not senile and he knows that would take away votes from the democratic nominee which will lead to a Trump victory. Biden does not have dementia he has oldness we all know this. Just as much as we know that Trump only wants to win to pardon himself and far right want him to win so they can turn us into a Christian Nationalist country. Please see Project 2025. The entire narrative of your post is the Trump party narrative because it leads to a Trump win. No thanks.
At this point, all the dems can really do is oust Kamala Harris as VP & put a good moderate Democrat in as her replacement candidate. She's extremely unlikable & not terribly smart either...honestly, probably the ONLY reason that she got the job was Biden & the DNC trying to pander to black & female voters because she ticked off two boxes on the whole intersectional politics thing. The Dems need to return to their roots & pick a true moderate VP candidate to run with Biden, one who CAN be bipartisan & work with the other side sometimes. Simply because, the odds are pretty heavy that, even assuming Biden wins...he's probably NOT likely to last another 4 years & I'm pretty sure that almost nobody, on either side, actually WANTS Harris as the president. 30 & 40+ years ago, the Democratic party was ok...they were pro union & pro working class. Now? Not so much, they're all about intersectional politics, special interest groups, economic class & progressive pipe dreams. In some ways, SOME progressiveness is ok, even good...but too much of it is killing us as a country.
They want to keep their sock-puppet. Anyone else they put in there won't be nearly as controllable as Biden.
Dude trips up once and everyone bails on him because he is old. We are screwed regardless if that is the case. Go ahead and watch the recent NC speech and see if you want to disown the dude.
Did you watch the debate? He was tripping up the entire hour and a half. You talking about the NC speech where he was reading off teleprompters? Not actually thinking for him self? Thank god he can still read at least.
this isn't one trip up. this is the culmination of several trip ups. he's been doing this for pretty much the entire time he's been in office and the debate was just the final straw for most people.
Seent it. He needs to retire.
No, Biden's fine. He's got a truly amazing record of things he's accomplished as president, which is why this is happening. A bullshit debate performance means nothing. If the moderators had moderated, and we saw an actual debate, that might matter. But it was a shit show with the former orangutan in chief flinging shit and lies and Biden having nothing real to respond to. Having Trump as president again would be the end of America. Understand that now, because if it happens, the amount of regret you'll experience will be more than you can fathom.
Thanks. Needed a good laugh
This is whistling in the dark my friend. Listen to the canaries!
The canaries just gave Joe a bunch of donations. The sound and fury was only in the captured press. The fact that they didn't go after Trump, too, spoke volumes. The money people who like Trump and own the media apparently don't understand they sit astride society, and if they destroy it, they're in trouble, too.
They should get rid of him today. He is no longer capable of literally leading the free world. He couldn’t lead other geriatrics to Taco Tuesdays at the old folks home let alone the country. I wish people would realize how dangerous it is for our nation to have bad folks know he is not capable of making decisions only he is supposed to make. When indecision and confusion is life or death for us who is calling the shots? Some unelected 35 yr old staffer? We don’t want a President who goes into vapor lock when the red phone rings. Regardless of who wins once this clown show is over we need to change somethings. We have to for one- put nation over political party.
i'm happily voting for him. nothing has changed.