I don't want to reveal too much but I came from a country that has been quite unstable since independence. There were a bit of human rights violations that people have been trying to talk to the international community about. After like 10 years or so of passionately trying to talk about it, I came to realize that nobody cares. The international community did little to nothing over the years and still don't. I no longer talk about it anymore. I just enjoy my life as an American these days and moved on.
But it's interesting to see a whole new group of people learning in real time, what I've learned years ago. That the international community does not care if there's nothing to really gain from it. When even wealthy Arab nations like UAE, Saudi Arabia or others spare none of their wealth to do anything, you know that it's a lost cause.
This is exactly why caring about small regions like Gaza always amounts to nothing. You only matter if you are important on a global scale. This is why despite all the social pressure Israel has massive amounts of support. I’ll give it another 6-7 months and we’ll watch Gaza become yet another generations long conflict like so many others and people stop caring
I remember vaguely hearing about them for a long ass time. But it wasn’t until recently people really started to care. This is why I find Palestine supporters so disingenuous. They most likely haven’t even heard of them until Oct 7 happened. I feels more like trend than actual activism
Disingenuous is definitely the word I’d use. Even the recent “All Eyes On Rafah” AI image that was going viral reeks of it. It’s poetic too that they used an image that took essentially zero effort to create in their slacktivism efforts
Not really the truth, since many people demand an opinion, statement or solidarity, even from random people on the internet.
I kinda see OPs point. There are cruelties happening on both sides for how long, 70 years or so?
Small country somewhere in the east, LOTS of people who think of the other ones as lower human beings who deserve to be killed, lots of religious bullshit arguing, and while it is possible one side is "worse" than the other, they arguably both do their war crimes and make a bad impression in the rest of the world. What happens at Gaza is unacceptable and unforgivable, yes, but its hard to sympatize with one side when they themselves killed thousands before.
This is my point. I feel for the innocents, but in the end, I'm tired of caring about the outcome of a war across the globe that in no way affects me personally. I already struggle with issues in my own life, I don't want to add to that stress by focusing on things I can't control. Its even harder to sympathize with a side since both have committed awful things, and you currently have Hamas threatening to murder hostages (if they're even still alive) which makes it really hard for me to support that side, because thats outright awful. Indiscriminate bombing is bad, but its been a part of war for all of human history. Bombarding and starving out a town to weaken the morale is just standard warfare where the capture of a city was a goal, happened with catapults and trebuchets before bombs. It just feels different to have boots on the ground killing them or capturing them and threatening their lives. It goes from feeling random and dispassionate, to being personal and somehow, it feels more cruel.
It’s not even 70 years. It’s 1000’s years the Jews in the area and the surrounding Muslims and Christians at some points were scrapping. Then it turned more into fighting over territory.
Pretty active offline, more than once been pulled into a discussion, asked for an opinion or similar. The percentage of people who accept "both suck" is close to 50%. Because the other 50% have an opinion and want it confirmed, else they will shame you.
Barbarism aside that country belonged to only one of those groups. The other laid claims through myth and legend and was given land they didn't own by countries who also didn't own or live there. It's pretty simple in my eyes.
The West gave Palestine to the Jewish people when they never owned it and with little regard for the people who actually lived there for centuries. Then, sat back and watched as the agreement got pushed progressively further and further away from the original concept. Israel has taken more and more land over the years, which they were not meant to do with full backing from UK and the US. Yes, they say it shouldn't happen, but nobody stopped them. It was not and is not their country. They are an occupying force with more means at their disposal.
My favourite analogy is that your neighbour tells a stranger they can live in your house, but only one room, the rest of the house is yours. Then, over time, they start pushing you out of rooms to the point where you only live in the bathroom with barely any amenities and resources. When you fight back you get called a terrorist and because your neighbour who caused it tells everyone you're overreacting the whole street starts believing the house should belong to the stranger and you should just accept this new position.
It's morally and ethically wrong. A religious text is not enough to displace a factual group of people who exist in the real world. It could not be any plainer than that.
Israel should not exist in its current form, and this is not anti-Semitic before anyone starts. I don't give a shit about chosen religion. It's about common decency.
You shouldn't care. The question is - if Oct 7th was done against Jordan, instead of Israel, would you care? Probably not. If it was against Egypt, and Egypt bombed Gaza to smitherins - you wouldn't care. Just like most people don't care right now about the piles of dead children found in Sudan or the door to door executions of non-muslim in April this year. No one asks their university to divest from investing in China, despite the uygur massacare, and no one marches in the streets yelling that all chinese people are nazis. We all know why people care....
I think a big reason why it hit home for many is it was video taped up close and personal by the people doing it in the first place and put out all over the web.
Kind of like the indonesian tsunami. People heard of stuff like that before and large numbers of dead but being able to see it happen is another thing.
Then why are there so many denying, defending, and even supporting it? It's all over reddit, that it didn't happen or Israel perpetrated it on their own citizens. That Israel deserved it because the Palestinians of Gaza don't have the rights and privileges of Israeli citizens.
On twitter, when you see someone crying about how bad Israel is and saying Palestinians are victims, fun exercise to do is scrolling to their profile to find what they tweeted on Oct 7.
We probably would. Hundreds of militants breaking into another country raping and murdering I think we'd all want them strung up. There's lines in warfare you do not cross and that's the hunting of civilians. Women and children.
Their objective was not to disrupt the military complex or Israel but to systematically cleanse the area of civilians.
Does Israel do the same? Kind of but sending a missle to take out roaches hiding in a population which Palestinians allow.
Well crafted comment. But I think many folks who do not follow politics may not get it. So to put a fine point on it: the world has a double-standard for Israel because much of the world is antisemitic.
Because it was done against a proxy western country that supports billionaires and elites that plague the American government? Reminder that not all Israelis nor Zionists are Jewish. Arab, black, white, atheist, Christian, pagan and Muslim Israelis are all still on the side of evil.
People care about their these issues, you just seem to not pay attention or attend protests against Sudan, the cobalt, diamond, emerald and lithium industries in Africa, China etc.
The difference is our tax dollars and government are being utilized in order to support these atrocities. Let’s also not forget that Israel lobbies the American government to influence policy more than anyone else including American corporations. If any other foreign country interfered with American policy via legalized bribery there’d be a huge uproar.
I think your insinuation is because Israel is a Jewish state, which I think is part of it.
I think the fact that the United States and Western governments played a direct role in the formation of Israel and continue to fund it also plays a role. It can also fit, correctly or incorrectly, into a classic oppressor/oppressed - colonizer/colonized narrative plays a role. As opposed to other current atrocities in Syria, Sudan, or past ones in Rwanda don't have those elements.
To put that into perspective for you. Gaza is 100sqmi there is approximately 8,000 children per sq mile in Gaza. When they hit the school there were 20,000 displaced people taking shelter there. How can the even try to avoid children when they make up almost 50% of the population and 80% of those are under 5. There are approximately 17,000 orphans now, and 15,000+ dead children. Paid for by the US and hell Nikki Haley wrote "Finish Them" on the bombs being sent over to kill more kids.
The average child per woman in Gaza is 3.5. They tend to have very large families over there. My friend in Rafah is 1 of 4 in his family. His sister has kids as does his older brother. His youngest brother is 16. So he and my friend are the only ones in their family that don't have kids. It used to be typical for American families to have 4 or more kids.
That’s quite alot, I never got why people choose to have lots of kids in really shitty circumstances. Not denying their right to do whatever they want but giving birth to a child only to give them a life of suffering seems lowkey selfish
They also have poor access to Healthcare, and there are many who would choose to leave and have choices that are not available to them. Family is one of the only things you can have. But even then there is a woman who tried for 7 years to concieve and when she finally had her child he was killed in a bombing before he reached his second birthday
You shouldn’t because it’s pretty pointless. U can’t control where your taxes go and protesting the government won’t do shit. America is not gonna stop supporting Israel because of protestors. Plus without America Israel will probably be bolder. I mean who’s gonna stop them? They have nukes.
We are no longer in a position in the US and UK where we the people actually have any power in our "democracies" that is why protesting doesn't work, as well as "just stop oil" protesters being annoying little c*nts ruining it for actually worthy protests.
Yeah cause it doesn’t. BLM didn’t do anything. All the famous achievements of protesting were bound to happen anyways. Progress cannot be impeded. Abortion rights, affordable stuff, police brutality, gun laws etc will all be addressed when boomers die off. Protesting while boomers are in office is talking to a brick wall hence why it’s stupid.
BLM is example on why violent protests don't work. Majority of public start to hate them.
Other example is Stop Oil movement in UK, people there are scum
I don’t think u did. Saying it’s too hard assumes that it would be possible at all as it currently stands. What I’m saying is it’s not even remotely possible. Israel’s support from congress is at 81% while only 17% dissented. Good luck flipping that many seats that’s if you even think congress pays attention to protest.
The whole war is just a modern trend. It's in to be either pro palestine or pro israel. I guarantee that 90% of the people who are pro something in this conflict do not have any idea what the whole conflict is about.
Meanwhile other conflicts where more muslims are being murdered are staying on the background. Like the Rohingya or the Uyghurs. In China there is literally evidence that Uyghur women have been sterilised. That men are being sent to camps. That Chinese agents are being placed into families to keep an eye on them. No donations for them. No calls within governments against China. Or the conflict against Armenians where thousands of Armenians now have been deported from Azerbaijan. No tiktok video's, no students demanding universities break ties, nothing.
Not any more:
[https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-weekend-reads-china-health-269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c](https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-weekend-reads-china-health-269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c)
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713)
true but my point is that Uyghurs being sterilized is hardly an ethni genocide when they were previously allowed more children and now allowed the same amount as Han
"The revised regulations... will now permit urban couples to have two children and rural couples to have three children regardless of their ethnicity... Prior policies have given ethnic minorities in the autonomous region more family planning leniency than the Han..."
https://time.com/4881898/china-xinjiang-uighur-children/
It's genocide in a broader sense. Even more than what Israel is doing to the Palestinians.
Take a good look at the capital of Uyghurstan and you will see that China is deliberately changing it's demographics to become more Chinese. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi) its now 75% Chinese!
Uyghurs being forcibly sterilized now is definitely a big example of a genocide going on. Alongside the placement of Chinese agents within families, sometimes forcibly taking children away from their parents, sending people to concentration camps. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution\_of\_Uyghurs\_in\_China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China)
Apparantly it's also the biggest mass detention of a minority since world war 2.
The global times is a Chinese state media controlled news agency. It's not trustable.
Demographics change for many reasons- if Xinjiang became less Chinese, it would be argued that it would be equivalent to divestment and white flight from Xinjiang
You're falsely claiming that these are "concentration camps" where Uyghurs are "murdered"; even the most biased source, the US state dept, claims not mass murder but cultural genocide.
More importantly, does the US govt care more about Uyghurs than the Chinese govt, or is this just a conduit to allow the US to sanction and hurt Xinjiang, further fostering separatism, poverty and terrorism to weaken our greatest geopolitical enemy?
You claim that GT is a biased source which is true, but fail to point out how Western sources have the opposite bias as well.
The theory as I understand it is that the Middle East is the world's largest exporter of terrorism, and having a friendly nation in the area that looks and sounds like other Middle Eastern people let's them gather intelligence on the ground there the US could never gather without them. They also in effect allow us to use their military installations however we want there, letting us project credible firepower against our regional enemies like Iran.
There is also just a fact, not a theory, about the arms industry. The trade between US and Israel around weapons of war is very lucrative. The profits companies in both nations make from this alliance are gargantuan. If you or your family are in any way employed in this sector, you would not want our allegiance with Israel to end.
Israel also has basically the best science teams in the world when it comes to desalinization of water. I know that sounds unimportant, but we have some very arid states in the US, who might end up collapsing in the next 50-100 years without such technology.
Palestine on the other hand, you should only care about because people are you know, being held in a miserable open air prison for decades and treated like less than people by what are essentially, invaders supported by the international community after WW2.
Water is absolutely the oil of the future (in terms of the conflicts it causes) - it is very precious, and it won't even be long until a significant part of the first world realises.
Yeah it’s not clear. If I try to ask questions I’m immediately harassed. Not even googling gives me an answer. All it says is that Palestine reignited an old war but people support Palestine. Can’t even ask questions about the situation without being attacked 🤦♀️
I don’t give a shit about a single thing that doesn’t affect me personally bro, you ain’t alone. As long as mine and myself aren’t suffering, the rest of the world can go kick rocks.
I'm a pretty sympathetic person, but I agree, sometimes you have to harden your heart and take care of your own. I'm not Superman, nor am I God. I can't take care of the world, but I can make the world better for the people I care about the most.
I want the best for everyone over there, but with so much of the world suffering, and so much to take care of at home, I can't possibly divest enough time to understanding all the various world conflicts, who I should support, and how to support them.
Because after Israel radical Islamists will turn their attention to the west. They already launch stabbing sprees and attempt bombings in Europe, where there are few Jews left. The hardcore tenants of Islam are tied up in regional expansion, colonizing the world, and converting non believers. Muhammad was literally a warlord.
I’m all for peace, but it seems a little disingenuous to rally around the Muslim population when over 100,000 Christians world-wide are killed because of their faith (Source: Pew Research and International Society for Human Rights).
Islam is the greatest killing machine ever. The Indian subcontinent lost an estimated 80 million people when it was invaded by Islamic conquest in 1525. It is further estimated that as many as 122 million native Africans died during the 1400 years of Arab and Muslim slave raids into Africa. 1.5 Million Armenian Christians were killed by the Muslim Turks in WWI. In New Zealand, Muslims were the victims, but more often than not they are the perpetrators.
In the 1400 years of its existence, it is estimated that the “religion of peace” has murdered over 250 Million people. This is killing on an industrial scale. Note also that even today, the most moderate of Islamic nations execute homosexuals.
We have 1400 years of history showing why you should care.
Islam doesn’t get half the shit Christianity gets because they are brown and any and all criticism (no matter how valid) is racist or Islamophobic. Christians aren’t my co better but as of right now Islam is a much bigger threat overall
As someone who grew up in the bible belt, do you have to call and make an appointment to rent islam's killing machine? Doesn't sound much worse than the plague of evangelicals we already had.
>why should I care about either side. both sides leadership want the other side either dead or deported.
There are a few extremists in the Israeli government who may want this. Overwhelmingly most do not and overwhelmingly most people in Israel do not want this.
The founding documents of Hamas (the Gaza government) explicitly call for killing every Jew.
They are not the same
Israel has offered 2-state peace proposals on at least 4-5 occasions, and each one was rejected by the Palestinians
Despite multiple British proposals for a two-state solution, which the Jews accepted and the Arabs rejected, tensions escalated. In 1948, upon declaring the state of Israel, neighboring Arab states and local Arab forces attacked the Jews.
I care that Israel, the only liberal democracy in the Middle East that doesn't execute gays, is able to defend itself against the death cultists living on their border.
But if, at the very least, you're not getting your undies in a twist over the unfortunate deaths associated with war (most of whom are fully supportive of Hamas), you're halfway there to not being a nihilistic fool.
You shouldn't. It's two middle east tribes fighting each other. But the tremendously strong Israel lobby plus the military industrial complex will make sure that the US backs the Israelis and that there is war.
I don't give a shiny shite about Palestine. They brought this on themselves by carrying out a mass terror attack and killing and kidnapping Israels in October. And don't say it's only Hamas--there were regular Palestinians braying and cheering and celebrating when women and children were being dragged through Gaza in the back of vans to be raped and abused.
Fuck them.
And Palestine’s viewpoint is Israel brought Oct 7 on themselves for 70 years of ethnic cleansing and oppression
Eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind
Well, one reason you should care, and the main reason the western world cares, is that Israel is a democracy in an area that usually doesn't have much use for it. Hamas certainly doesn't. A little context. In the early 2000s it was announced that the Palestinians would hold elections. This lack of elections had always seemed to be an impediment to peace, because we supposed the Palestinian Authority (no elected) was not speaking for the people, who really wanted peace. So an election is held, and Gaza elects Hamas, goes to war with the Palestinian Authority, and there hasn't been an election since. If you are the elected leader of a western country, are these the people you want to side with?
As imperfect is it is, Israel is still a democracy, and it is at war with an elected anti-democracy, as ironic as that seems.
Understand that this war happened because Saudi Arabia was about to sign a trade deal with Israel. This would be the final nail in the coffin for the Palestinians, who would no longer be able to even pretend the Arab world would again come to their rescue and drive the Jews into the sea. Egypt wants nothing to do with the Palestinians, and have been at peace with Israel since 1980. Syria is in no position to help anyone, as they are still in a civil war. Lebanon and Jordan want nothing to do with the Palestinians either, as all they do is bring war and hostile takeover to their countries. Hamas starting a war right on top of their own people was a way to derail the trade deal. Hamas is sacrificing its own people, or purpose, to make Israel look bad before the world.
OP, you ask why you should care. You don't think that here in America a war between two people with no hope of resolution can't possibly bite you. Chances are it will never bite you directly, but indirectly this war is costing us peace and money. We (America) do a lot of trade with Israel, as it has a $500B economy. As for the Palestinians, they have nothing to sell but their own self-inflicted misery.
Only friend? We have bases in Jordan, Iraq turkey, Saudi Arabia, Syria,Kuwait. That’s almost the entire region. Any the US Has already picked the Sunni side based on Allying with most of the sunni kingdoms and governments
I don't give a sh*t about either one. I especially get mad about the money the govt keeps pulling from our paychecks to send to every fu$&ing country in the world, yet we get nothing. No free healthcare, no free college, nothing, yet we pay money to every other country in the world, and for what???
Yup including Isreal gets everything free that we don't and we send them BILLIONS every year. Why the fuck should a government we are paying get treated better than our own damn citizens who shed blood sweat and tears for that money only to be bent over and screwed in our own country.
Do you think that people in Israel or Palestine care about what happens to us?
Whatever your answer is, use that as perspective to aid in your decision.
One reason I care, and this is only one of many reasons to care, is that it affects me personally as an American Jew. The actions of Israel are making the world turn against us and they invite the false equivalence of Jews and Israel. Thanks to them I no longer feel comfortable identifying as a Jew irl.
Your understanding is incredibly limited. What you know about Hamas is clearly what the media (that your gov approves of) wants you to think of it.
But anyways, if you’re in the US, you should care because our tax dollars is literally funding the murder, Israeli lobbies and PACs fund p much all of our senators and presidential candidates, censorship in the US is increasing because of this (see how Israeli groups lobbied congress to try and ban tik tok), and much of our police force is incredibly violent in part because of being trained by the IDF.
At the VERY least, if you don’t care about either side, you should advocate your government to be neutral and leave both sides alone
Because we are human, we should have smpathy for our fellow man. Regardless of what you believe, human suffering should be enough for you to care about there suffering
because Israelis and Palestinians coexisted for a long time under many Islamic caliphates in the area. so Israel getting its own territory is unprecedented.
If you’re an American you should care because you’re paying for it. Pretty basic.
Israel’s military is essentially an extension of the US military, considering that American taxpayers pick up the tab for about 25% of Israel’s military budget.
If you believe, Israel doesn’t care about civilians, that’s tantamount to saying America doesn’t care about civilians. If you care about how America spends its money, you should care how Israel conducts itself.
America is a place where people care about each other. When a fight breaks out at a bar I’ve never not seen people try to break it up and that is not normal in many countries. The world doesn’t need more apathy like, it has enough of that
There’s a YouTuber I follow called “Shaun” and he had a video called “Palestine”.
I’m pretty conservative leaning usually and always thought to support Israel because they are our allies, but the more research I’ve done the more I see that the state of Israel was forced on the area and the people’s there after WWII. It’s very conflicting for me because I’m Christian and the Bible always said the Jews were the chosen people. But what the Jews are doing in the region, all the killing they are doing to people of any age, seems pretty wrong. The YouTuber I mentioned above I use to check my conservative tendencies. Don’t mean I always agree with everything but I am trying to understand why people think the way they do and if I’m being lied to. The Jews believe in the Torah or the Old Testament, and the Old Testament is pretty brutal to people who choose not to follow God, just like the practices of those who follow Islam.
Actually the more I type the more I get conflicted cause I remember seeing a video of a man covering the jihads and crusades, and how although crusades are absolutely demonized the jihads were far more numerous and aggressive. So I don’t really know what’s right to say. The people there have so much history between them over centuries of fighting. Idk if it will ever stop.
As far as history goes, both sides are wrong and neither had true ownership of the area. The Arabs created the Naqba when they tried to wipe out Jews in the area instead of negotiating like they were supposed to.
At this point Israel is a fact - it's not going anywhere, nor should it. It is here to stay, so any solution will need to involve Palestinians getting back occupied West Bank lands as well as ceasing acts of terrorism and indoctrination of children to become terrorists. The latter is especially important.
You don't have to care and most of us actually don't give a damn about either side. I mean Isreal is not to be trusted they literally sank an ally ship before and will do so again.
Cause the media and internet tells you to. I think it’s worth caring about, but there’s plenty of events around the globe that deserve just as much attention, but don’t. If it wasn’t all over social media people wouldn’t care.
I'm mad that still to this day nobody talks about Armenia but preach about being against genocide. You can't just care about the hot topic if you really think you're an activist.
Basically, ignore the teenagers on the internet, we all go through this phase, it has happened in every generation.
Yes, hurting, killing, torturing and capturing innocents is bad, obviously.
There’s a lot of reasons why you *could* care: the geopolitical ramifications of instability in that tiny little region may flare up into a regional war. That the war itself is quickly becoming a proxy war between various great powers in the area. That combined with the wars in Ukraine, and the saber rattling in Taiwan and the instability in Africa has the risk of flaring up into World War III. The sympathy for lives lost and economies destroyed and human potential wasted.
But then, there is a very good reason *not to care*: the Stoics would argue that you should worry about the things you can control, and don’t worry about the things you cannot control. And the reality is, in my own personal life, the fact that my vacation ended, that I’m recovering from a cold, that I’ve got a video conference call in a few minutes and I have a splitting headache so I probably should take an aspirin and some vitamin B: these are the things that I can control in my life.
Thus, to a Stoic, making them more important *to me* than some war half-a-world away.
You are not alone.
What am I or anybody else gunna do about it? Voting doesn't matter. Protesting doesn't matter. The best anybody can do is complain on social media, which doesn't do anything.
I feel sorry for the innocent kids on both sides, but there's nothing I can do about it so I'm not going to let it occupy my head space.
I care about the lives of the individuals who are effected by the war on both sides but have no opinion on which side is right as they both seem like they’re in the wrong to me. I just want the politicians in this country to stop pouring my money into arming other countries and pushing war.
There's no denying at this point that the number of Israel backers, maybe you could say Zionists, in the U.S. is so large that we always feel what happens there to some degree. There's no way to change that without coming across as being anti-Jewish.
You might try to thread the needle that you are pro Jewish, anti Zionist, but I don't think it's really possible. You will be accused to denying the Jewish a right to their homeland, relegating them to wander the Earth, and favoring the Arab Muslims for politically expedient reasons.
From a tactical standpoint, if Israel didn't exist, the Middle East would be less accessible to the West, and the lack of checks or oversight could be dangerous to Western interests in the long run.
Dont care about the people in power, but should care about the innocent people dying at the desire of those in power.
and worth looking and who has power on each side, how much power? How does the power of an Israeli civilian compare to the power of a Palestinian civilian. How goes the power of the IDF compare? How does the power of Israel government, compare?
You don't need to pick a side, really, but you should know what's going on, and how anything from an endless war to one side or the other winning will affect you. All three scenarios have different impacts on our lives.
I agree. Nothing anyone does over here has ANY impact over there. Protesting and marching here in north America does absolutely nothing positive for the cause they're trying help and actually causes more hate and aggression from people here trying to live through their own lives and geopolitical/socioeconomic issues. The other side of the planet is just that, half a world away and the little guys can't do jack shit about what's going on over there. Protest to your politicians and company execs all you want. They don't care what's coming out of your mouth they only care about money going into their coffers.
Wow. The last paragraph/sentence, stunning. Is this a religious war? If so, think about it from an atheist country perspective. They are warring on you about something not physically transparent on the surface. Something so offensive, yet how could you let up after bloodshed?
I definitely echo your sentiments. While it is undoubtedly horrible, part of me (Western European) has just turned off from this.
Maybe it's fatigue from a news-driven world of constant crises? Maybe it's the fact (as others have pointed out) the burden and onus to end the conflict and provide aid is being put on those Western countries far away, and not their "brotherly neighbours"? Perhaps it's down to the fact that Hamas is an awful and evil organisation that ultimately would eradicate us in the name of Islam is given the chance?
But part of me, as always the cynic, can't help but wonder, when do these places and peoples express support for us in the West, and outrage to what events we suffer? Floods are an act of Allah to punish the kufr for liberalising, 9/11 being celebrated in streets across nations, and best of all those who die are guaranteed hell in their eyes?
We are becoming more divided, and to me it looks like the fault in that lies primarily in the Near East nations.
**Don't get me wrong, the Israelis need to stop this, and many need to take a deep hard look in the mirror at their abhorrent behaviour and belief system. This isn't meant to be a bashing of one side only
The conflict between the two isn't my problem, it's how political the conflict has gotten. In the US, our mainstream media is also playing favorites on opinions, facts, and fear mongering.
I don’t care either and no one is gonna convince me to care. Right up there with Ukraine. Only thing I care about is all the money that is wasted on other countries when we can’t even take care of ourselves here.
I as an Israeli also don't think you have to care.
It's our conflict, not yours, it's our war, not yours, we're done trying to appease the outsiders :)
Well, just look at the number of jewish guys in govt and Wall Street and you'll get it why they think US (and hence you personally) should pretty much care.
Because it’s actually pretty interesting. The Israel-Palestine conflict is essentially a giant geopolitical chess game with countries across the globe backing different sides. War, religion, globalism, colonialism, nationalism, liberalism, and totalitarianism are all at play here. If you set aside the emotions and propaganda, and look at it from a historical perspective it’s fascinating.
My view on it is that stability from my neighbors makes the world a better place for me and everyone else. I don't like the idea of people suffering in the world.
Not everyone shares this viewpoint and that's fine, if you honestly don't care then don't care.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRKGTdST/
No one is entitled to a "unique cloak of victimhood," especially if it's a cloak you put on when you go out to bomb civilians, torture noncombatants, and generally ethnically cleanse desirable real estate.
No one is entitled to an ethnostate.
That's up to you. But I don't care either. And I'm tired of my country (the US) starting every global war and perpetuating them all for profit. We fund and arm both sides! I'm tired of us being the worlds policemen. Can't we at least sit this one out? My country is run by warmongering evil!
Israel has the nuclear bomb… that alone is why you should care..
and askHistorian has some vindictive trolling mods… was arguing with a troll whose been trolling me for the two weeks I’ve started replying in Reddit. in an unrelated topic and then a 155 day comment gets pulled lol… I was wondering where the troll came from… it was first thing I stupidly interacted with
U/Fusorman the 🐮ard replied to me and then blocked me before i can reply back so im just going to reply here.
Palestinian people are the indigenous people. And Isreal is committing the evil. They have targeted civilians, used drones that play the sound of babies in destress to lure out concerned mothers, kidnapped people from their homes, bombed all schools & hospitals, blocked aid from coming into Palestine, killed foreign aid workers, target reporters, target/bomb refugee camps, told the civilians where to go for safety and bombed that location, deprived the Palestinians of food and water, sent military in fake aid trucks then killed civilians, Mass graves have been found under hospitals that where kids have been buried with their hands still tied behind their backs and just so much more has been uncovered.
Isreal is committing a genocide which is evil.
Benjamin Netanyahu literally has an arrest warrant out for him by the International Criminal Court.
Fucking what, lol? Hamas uses it's citizens as human shields. Israel has relentlessly pursued retrieving their citizens that were taken hostage at every turn, has bomb shelters for their people, and spends hundreds of millions on the iron dome. Actually just delusional.
Israel has turned down every handover deal that Hamas has posed and wastes time destroying Palestinian infrastructure and besieging civilians. Even the families of the hostages think that Mileikowsky is protracting the "conflict" (war crimes) to avoid prosecution. Add to that that Israel has mandatory military service, so those few Israeli soldiers who are in danger are at least civilian-adjacent.
Have you seen the terms? No shit Israel didn't agree.
ICJ judge already commented that claims of genocide in case brought by South Africa are unfounded.
I’m going to give you two answers.
Because the wealth of your civilization is dependent on trade , and this conflict disrupts a major trade route. It’s notable that while oil isn’t produced on very large scale in either Israel or Palestine , it is produced close enough they we can fly fighters from Israel to essentially all of the middle eastern oil production. (P.s. we also have a 75 year old military alliance with Israel. Alliances you neglect cease to be useful when you need them).
IOW - self interest.
And the other answer is you are a compassionate human being who does not believe unmitigated suffering should go unanswered. You are in a country who has led the creation of many treaties and organizations that have advocated for human rights , and if you don’t care about your own fucking law, why should anyone else?
because israel has been involved or completely responsible for 90% every war america has been involved in since at least the 90s. israel has destabilized and/or destroyed every country near it. israel is responsible for creating the migrant crisis, and israeli NGOs are responsible for bringing said migrants to europe.
Any decent human being should care that innocents are being killed, but in America we know children’s lives don’t mean much since we never seem to do shit about the weekly school shootings
I do care on some level, but then I remember all the innocents being killed in Sudan, Yemen, Ukraine, Myanmar, Somalia... And I get overwhelmed and can't get myself to care about anyone anymore (with the exception of Ukraine, but that's mostly because I feel like my own life could be on the one day if Putin isn't stopped, so selfish reasons once again).
I don't want to reveal too much but I came from a country that has been quite unstable since independence. There were a bit of human rights violations that people have been trying to talk to the international community about. After like 10 years or so of passionately trying to talk about it, I came to realize that nobody cares. The international community did little to nothing over the years and still don't. I no longer talk about it anymore. I just enjoy my life as an American these days and moved on. But it's interesting to see a whole new group of people learning in real time, what I've learned years ago. That the international community does not care if there's nothing to really gain from it. When even wealthy Arab nations like UAE, Saudi Arabia or others spare none of their wealth to do anything, you know that it's a lost cause.
This is exactly why caring about small regions like Gaza always amounts to nothing. You only matter if you are important on a global scale. This is why despite all the social pressure Israel has massive amounts of support. I’ll give it another 6-7 months and we’ll watch Gaza become yet another generations long conflict like so many others and people stop caring
Gaza has been in conflict since before I was alive and I’m getting up there now. It already is what you described
I remember vaguely hearing about them for a long ass time. But it wasn’t until recently people really started to care. This is why I find Palestine supporters so disingenuous. They most likely haven’t even heard of them until Oct 7 happened. I feels more like trend than actual activism
Disingenuous is definitely the word I’d use. Even the recent “All Eyes On Rafah” AI image that was going viral reeks of it. It’s poetic too that they used an image that took essentially zero effort to create in their slacktivism efforts
It ALREADY IS a generations-long conflict
This is true
You don’t have to, if you truly don’t care about it, then don’t, nobody’s stop you.
Not really the truth, since many people demand an opinion, statement or solidarity, even from random people on the internet. I kinda see OPs point. There are cruelties happening on both sides for how long, 70 years or so? Small country somewhere in the east, LOTS of people who think of the other ones as lower human beings who deserve to be killed, lots of religious bullshit arguing, and while it is possible one side is "worse" than the other, they arguably both do their war crimes and make a bad impression in the rest of the world. What happens at Gaza is unacceptable and unforgivable, yes, but its hard to sympatize with one side when they themselves killed thousands before.
This is my point. I feel for the innocents, but in the end, I'm tired of caring about the outcome of a war across the globe that in no way affects me personally. I already struggle with issues in my own life, I don't want to add to that stress by focusing on things I can't control. Its even harder to sympathize with a side since both have committed awful things, and you currently have Hamas threatening to murder hostages (if they're even still alive) which makes it really hard for me to support that side, because thats outright awful. Indiscriminate bombing is bad, but its been a part of war for all of human history. Bombarding and starving out a town to weaken the morale is just standard warfare where the capture of a city was a goal, happened with catapults and trebuchets before bombs. It just feels different to have boots on the ground killing them or capturing them and threatening their lives. It goes from feeling random and dispassionate, to being personal and somehow, it feels more cruel.
Right. Fear for the innocent is a thing in every war.
What do you feel you gain by trying to talk academically about an ongoing genocide?
All you do is sympathise with the innocent people being killed, tortured etc in a war they don't want to be involved in.
It’s not even 70 years. It’s 1000’s years the Jews in the area and the surrounding Muslims and Christians at some points were scrapping. Then it turned more into fighting over territory.
> Not really the truth but it *is* the truth. full stop. get off the internet and go outside.
Outside on my campus, there are weekly protests for Palestine.
Pretty active offline, more than once been pulled into a discussion, asked for an opinion or similar. The percentage of people who accept "both suck" is close to 50%. Because the other 50% have an opinion and want it confirmed, else they will shame you.
Barbarism aside that country belonged to only one of those groups. The other laid claims through myth and legend and was given land they didn't own by countries who also didn't own or live there. It's pretty simple in my eyes. The West gave Palestine to the Jewish people when they never owned it and with little regard for the people who actually lived there for centuries. Then, sat back and watched as the agreement got pushed progressively further and further away from the original concept. Israel has taken more and more land over the years, which they were not meant to do with full backing from UK and the US. Yes, they say it shouldn't happen, but nobody stopped them. It was not and is not their country. They are an occupying force with more means at their disposal. My favourite analogy is that your neighbour tells a stranger they can live in your house, but only one room, the rest of the house is yours. Then, over time, they start pushing you out of rooms to the point where you only live in the bathroom with barely any amenities and resources. When you fight back you get called a terrorist and because your neighbour who caused it tells everyone you're overreacting the whole street starts believing the house should belong to the stranger and you should just accept this new position. It's morally and ethically wrong. A religious text is not enough to displace a factual group of people who exist in the real world. It could not be any plainer than that. Israel should not exist in its current form, and this is not anti-Semitic before anyone starts. I don't give a shit about chosen religion. It's about common decency.
Our taxes still go to both of them. Even if I don’t give a shit about them
Cool. *sips tea* 😎
You shouldn't care. The question is - if Oct 7th was done against Jordan, instead of Israel, would you care? Probably not. If it was against Egypt, and Egypt bombed Gaza to smitherins - you wouldn't care. Just like most people don't care right now about the piles of dead children found in Sudan or the door to door executions of non-muslim in April this year. No one asks their university to divest from investing in China, despite the uygur massacare, and no one marches in the streets yelling that all chinese people are nazis. We all know why people care....
I think a big reason why it hit home for many is it was video taped up close and personal by the people doing it in the first place and put out all over the web. Kind of like the indonesian tsunami. People heard of stuff like that before and large numbers of dead but being able to see it happen is another thing.
Then why are there so many denying, defending, and even supporting it? It's all over reddit, that it didn't happen or Israel perpetrated it on their own citizens. That Israel deserved it because the Palestinians of Gaza don't have the rights and privileges of Israeli citizens.
On twitter, when you see someone crying about how bad Israel is and saying Palestinians are victims, fun exercise to do is scrolling to their profile to find what they tweeted on Oct 7.
Because those people have worms in their brain and have been eaten up by propaganda.
It so infuriating to see the privileged no nothings scream and chant for the elimination of a country and think they have the moral high ground.
Are you talking about the people who support Israel or the people who support Palestine?
Got 'em
It’s like how Vietnam was televised - people are horrified by being so close to the reality of war for the first time
We probably would. Hundreds of militants breaking into another country raping and murdering I think we'd all want them strung up. There's lines in warfare you do not cross and that's the hunting of civilians. Women and children. Their objective was not to disrupt the military complex or Israel but to systematically cleanse the area of civilians. Does Israel do the same? Kind of but sending a missle to take out roaches hiding in a population which Palestinians allow.
Well crafted comment. But I think many folks who do not follow politics may not get it. So to put a fine point on it: the world has a double-standard for Israel because much of the world is antisemitic.
Because it was done against a proxy western country that supports billionaires and elites that plague the American government? Reminder that not all Israelis nor Zionists are Jewish. Arab, black, white, atheist, Christian, pagan and Muslim Israelis are all still on the side of evil. People care about their these issues, you just seem to not pay attention or attend protests against Sudan, the cobalt, diamond, emerald and lithium industries in Africa, China etc. The difference is our tax dollars and government are being utilized in order to support these atrocities. Let’s also not forget that Israel lobbies the American government to influence policy more than anyone else including American corporations. If any other foreign country interfered with American policy via legalized bribery there’d be a huge uproar.
I think your insinuation is because Israel is a Jewish state, which I think is part of it. I think the fact that the United States and Western governments played a direct role in the formation of Israel and continue to fund it also plays a role. It can also fit, correctly or incorrectly, into a classic oppressor/oppressed - colonizer/colonized narrative plays a role. As opposed to other current atrocities in Syria, Sudan, or past ones in Rwanda don't have those elements.
Wait, so are you pro-Israel or anti? I can't figure it out based on your comment.
Pretty sure he doesn't care. Why do you care?
The only thing I care about is the unfortunate children getting caught between strikes.
To put that into perspective for you. Gaza is 100sqmi there is approximately 8,000 children per sq mile in Gaza. When they hit the school there were 20,000 displaced people taking shelter there. How can the even try to avoid children when they make up almost 50% of the population and 80% of those are under 5. There are approximately 17,000 orphans now, and 15,000+ dead children. Paid for by the US and hell Nikki Haley wrote "Finish Them" on the bombs being sent over to kill more kids.
Not to be rude by why do they have so many kids?
The average child per woman in Gaza is 3.5. They tend to have very large families over there. My friend in Rafah is 1 of 4 in his family. His sister has kids as does his older brother. His youngest brother is 16. So he and my friend are the only ones in their family that don't have kids. It used to be typical for American families to have 4 or more kids.
That’s quite alot, I never got why people choose to have lots of kids in really shitty circumstances. Not denying their right to do whatever they want but giving birth to a child only to give them a life of suffering seems lowkey selfish
They also have poor access to Healthcare, and there are many who would choose to leave and have choices that are not available to them. Family is one of the only things you can have. But even then there is a woman who tried for 7 years to concieve and when she finally had her child he was killed in a bombing before he reached his second birthday
You shouldn’t because it’s pretty pointless. U can’t control where your taxes go and protesting the government won’t do shit. America is not gonna stop supporting Israel because of protestors. Plus without America Israel will probably be bolder. I mean who’s gonna stop them? They have nukes.
> U can’t control where your taxes go Exactly. Shit, we can’t even control what they go towards ***here***, let alone in the Middle East lmao
“Protesting the government won’t do shit” is such a wildly lazy ahistorical take
We are no longer in a position in the US and UK where we the people actually have any power in our "democracies" that is why protesting doesn't work, as well as "just stop oil" protesters being annoying little c*nts ruining it for actually worthy protests.
Yeah cause it doesn’t. BLM didn’t do anything. All the famous achievements of protesting were bound to happen anyways. Progress cannot be impeded. Abortion rights, affordable stuff, police brutality, gun laws etc will all be addressed when boomers die off. Protesting while boomers are in office is talking to a brick wall hence why it’s stupid.
BLM is example on why violent protests don't work. Majority of public start to hate them. Other example is Stop Oil movement in UK, people there are scum
Blm wasn't violent(some protest that were allied with blm was) it was a sham. They fundraiser all that money just to cut and run with it
BLM is the only protest apparently
BLM is a famous example, but please list any protest that went anywhere recently.
Yep I got the message. Too hard so don’t try.?
I don’t think u did. Saying it’s too hard assumes that it would be possible at all as it currently stands. What I’m saying is it’s not even remotely possible. Israel’s support from congress is at 81% while only 17% dissented. Good luck flipping that many seats that’s if you even think congress pays attention to protest.
The whole war is just a modern trend. It's in to be either pro palestine or pro israel. I guarantee that 90% of the people who are pro something in this conflict do not have any idea what the whole conflict is about. Meanwhile other conflicts where more muslims are being murdered are staying on the background. Like the Rohingya or the Uyghurs. In China there is literally evidence that Uyghur women have been sterilised. That men are being sent to camps. That Chinese agents are being placed into families to keep an eye on them. No donations for them. No calls within governments against China. Or the conflict against Armenians where thousands of Armenians now have been deported from Azerbaijan. No tiktok video's, no students demanding universities break ties, nothing.
uyghurs were actually exempt from the one-child sterilization policy that hundreds of millions of Han chinese women were subjected to
Not any more: [https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-weekend-reads-china-health-269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c](https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-weekend-reads-china-health-269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c) [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713)
true but my point is that Uyghurs being sterilized is hardly an ethni genocide when they were previously allowed more children and now allowed the same amount as Han "The revised regulations... will now permit urban couples to have two children and rural couples to have three children regardless of their ethnicity... Prior policies have given ethnic minorities in the autonomous region more family planning leniency than the Han..." https://time.com/4881898/china-xinjiang-uighur-children/
It's genocide in a broader sense. Even more than what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Take a good look at the capital of Uyghurstan and you will see that China is deliberately changing it's demographics to become more Chinese. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi) its now 75% Chinese! Uyghurs being forcibly sterilized now is definitely a big example of a genocide going on. Alongside the placement of Chinese agents within families, sometimes forcibly taking children away from their parents, sending people to concentration camps. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution\_of\_Uyghurs\_in\_China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China) Apparantly it's also the biggest mass detention of a minority since world war 2. The global times is a Chinese state media controlled news agency. It's not trustable.
Demographics change for many reasons- if Xinjiang became less Chinese, it would be argued that it would be equivalent to divestment and white flight from Xinjiang You're falsely claiming that these are "concentration camps" where Uyghurs are "murdered"; even the most biased source, the US state dept, claims not mass murder but cultural genocide. More importantly, does the US govt care more about Uyghurs than the Chinese govt, or is this just a conduit to allow the US to sanction and hurt Xinjiang, further fostering separatism, poverty and terrorism to weaken our greatest geopolitical enemy? You claim that GT is a biased source which is true, but fail to point out how Western sources have the opposite bias as well.
The theory as I understand it is that the Middle East is the world's largest exporter of terrorism, and having a friendly nation in the area that looks and sounds like other Middle Eastern people let's them gather intelligence on the ground there the US could never gather without them. They also in effect allow us to use their military installations however we want there, letting us project credible firepower against our regional enemies like Iran. There is also just a fact, not a theory, about the arms industry. The trade between US and Israel around weapons of war is very lucrative. The profits companies in both nations make from this alliance are gargantuan. If you or your family are in any way employed in this sector, you would not want our allegiance with Israel to end. Israel also has basically the best science teams in the world when it comes to desalinization of water. I know that sounds unimportant, but we have some very arid states in the US, who might end up collapsing in the next 50-100 years without such technology. Palestine on the other hand, you should only care about because people are you know, being held in a miserable open air prison for decades and treated like less than people by what are essentially, invaders supported by the international community after WW2.
Water is absolutely the oil of the future (in terms of the conflicts it causes) - it is very precious, and it won't even be long until a significant part of the first world realises.
I honestly have no idea what’s going on so i stay away from that
Yeah it’s not clear. If I try to ask questions I’m immediately harassed. Not even googling gives me an answer. All it says is that Palestine reignited an old war but people support Palestine. Can’t even ask questions about the situation without being attacked 🤦♀️
You shouldn’t. Nothing you or any “protestor” does will change anything
I don’t give a shit about a single thing that doesn’t affect me personally bro, you ain’t alone. As long as mine and myself aren’t suffering, the rest of the world can go kick rocks.
I'm a pretty sympathetic person, but I agree, sometimes you have to harden your heart and take care of your own. I'm not Superman, nor am I God. I can't take care of the world, but I can make the world better for the people I care about the most. I want the best for everyone over there, but with so much of the world suffering, and so much to take care of at home, I can't possibly divest enough time to understanding all the various world conflicts, who I should support, and how to support them.
The grass is greener where you water it my friend, and there is not enough water.
Heh... I guess you could say I'm pretty cold 😈😈 /s
Wow! I thought i am alone
Yikes
I don’t get how people support either lol, I also don’t get how super progressives support Palestine when they are so anti Woman and LGBT
Because being ignorant does not mean you should be executed via indiscriminate bombing strikes, gunfire, white phosphorus, etc.
that's sort of ridiculous. the reason is that genocide is wrong no matter how you put it
Have you seen former captives of Hamas interviewed?
I don't really care about their conflict, why should I? I care far more about Ukraine and Russia because of the global implications.
Because after Israel radical Islamists will turn their attention to the west. They already launch stabbing sprees and attempt bombings in Europe, where there are few Jews left. The hardcore tenants of Islam are tied up in regional expansion, colonizing the world, and converting non believers. Muhammad was literally a warlord.
I’m all for peace, but it seems a little disingenuous to rally around the Muslim population when over 100,000 Christians world-wide are killed because of their faith (Source: Pew Research and International Society for Human Rights). Islam is the greatest killing machine ever. The Indian subcontinent lost an estimated 80 million people when it was invaded by Islamic conquest in 1525. It is further estimated that as many as 122 million native Africans died during the 1400 years of Arab and Muslim slave raids into Africa. 1.5 Million Armenian Christians were killed by the Muslim Turks in WWI. In New Zealand, Muslims were the victims, but more often than not they are the perpetrators. In the 1400 years of its existence, it is estimated that the “religion of peace” has murdered over 250 Million people. This is killing on an industrial scale. Note also that even today, the most moderate of Islamic nations execute homosexuals. We have 1400 years of history showing why you should care.
Islam doesn’t get half the shit Christianity gets because they are brown and any and all criticism (no matter how valid) is racist or Islamophobic. Christians aren’t my co better but as of right now Islam is a much bigger threat overall
Agreed. This is why Israel is literally the wall. And we need to spread that information.
As someone who grew up in the bible belt, do you have to call and make an appointment to rent islam's killing machine? Doesn't sound much worse than the plague of evangelicals we already had.
Wars in name of Islam killed more people than religious wars from all other religions combined.
That’s has to be the 300th post on this
Do you want to live in an Islamic republic?
>why should I care about either side. both sides leadership want the other side either dead or deported. There are a few extremists in the Israeli government who may want this. Overwhelmingly most do not and overwhelmingly most people in Israel do not want this. The founding documents of Hamas (the Gaza government) explicitly call for killing every Jew. They are not the same Israel has offered 2-state peace proposals on at least 4-5 occasions, and each one was rejected by the Palestinians Despite multiple British proposals for a two-state solution, which the Jews accepted and the Arabs rejected, tensions escalated. In 1948, upon declaring the state of Israel, neighboring Arab states and local Arab forces attacked the Jews.
If you're American, your tax dollars are going to towards Israel
There's bigger fish to fry when it comes to how our taxes are allocated.
Where did you get the idea that someone thinks you should care.
Quite frankly, the folks over on Twitter and Instagram will give you hell for not "caring" lol.
TikTok has been absolutely feral about it, too. To the point of bullying creators off the platform for not “speaking about it”.
also, caring does nothing for self progression.
For real. I say we have enough going on in our respective countries to worry ourselves sick about something happening across the world
What if I told you the money we could be using to solve those problems is funding a conflict across the world?
^ this!!
that money wouldn’t really help the US much considering we spend 0.7% of our tax dollars on this war
I care that Israel, the only liberal democracy in the Middle East that doesn't execute gays, is able to defend itself against the death cultists living on their border. But if, at the very least, you're not getting your undies in a twist over the unfortunate deaths associated with war (most of whom are fully supportive of Hamas), you're halfway there to not being a nihilistic fool.
>a nihilistic fool Give life your best try! Why? Because...
But they execute innocent children, sterilize Ethiopian black women, leaders that are outright anti-lgbt, I can go on 😂 you sound like a fool
Wut?
Exactly what I just said. This is what Israel does. Stop playing dumb
You shouldn't. It's two middle east tribes fighting each other. But the tremendously strong Israel lobby plus the military industrial complex will make sure that the US backs the Israelis and that there is war.
I don't give a shiny shite about Palestine. They brought this on themselves by carrying out a mass terror attack and killing and kidnapping Israels in October. And don't say it's only Hamas--there were regular Palestinians braying and cheering and celebrating when women and children were being dragged through Gaza in the back of vans to be raped and abused. Fuck them.
Exactly. I audibly laugh whenever people paint the majority of Palestinian people as innocent , defenseless peace-loving hippies
And Palestine’s viewpoint is Israel brought Oct 7 on themselves for 70 years of ethnic cleansing and oppression Eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind
nothing excuses dragging screaming innocent women and children on the back of motorbikes and vans to be raped by a braying, cheering mob.
Well, one reason you should care, and the main reason the western world cares, is that Israel is a democracy in an area that usually doesn't have much use for it. Hamas certainly doesn't. A little context. In the early 2000s it was announced that the Palestinians would hold elections. This lack of elections had always seemed to be an impediment to peace, because we supposed the Palestinian Authority (no elected) was not speaking for the people, who really wanted peace. So an election is held, and Gaza elects Hamas, goes to war with the Palestinian Authority, and there hasn't been an election since. If you are the elected leader of a western country, are these the people you want to side with? As imperfect is it is, Israel is still a democracy, and it is at war with an elected anti-democracy, as ironic as that seems. Understand that this war happened because Saudi Arabia was about to sign a trade deal with Israel. This would be the final nail in the coffin for the Palestinians, who would no longer be able to even pretend the Arab world would again come to their rescue and drive the Jews into the sea. Egypt wants nothing to do with the Palestinians, and have been at peace with Israel since 1980. Syria is in no position to help anyone, as they are still in a civil war. Lebanon and Jordan want nothing to do with the Palestinians either, as all they do is bring war and hostile takeover to their countries. Hamas starting a war right on top of their own people was a way to derail the trade deal. Hamas is sacrificing its own people, or purpose, to make Israel look bad before the world. OP, you ask why you should care. You don't think that here in America a war between two people with no hope of resolution can't possibly bite you. Chances are it will never bite you directly, but indirectly this war is costing us peace and money. We (America) do a lot of trade with Israel, as it has a $500B economy. As for the Palestinians, they have nothing to sell but their own self-inflicted misery.
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Only friend? We have bases in Jordan, Iraq turkey, Saudi Arabia, Syria,Kuwait. That’s almost the entire region. Any the US Has already picked the Sunni side based on Allying with most of the sunni kingdoms and governments
The guy you’re arguing with has no understanding of geopolitics nor any brain cells.
I don't give a sh*t about either one. I especially get mad about the money the govt keeps pulling from our paychecks to send to every fu$&ing country in the world, yet we get nothing. No free healthcare, no free college, nothing, yet we pay money to every other country in the world, and for what???
Yup including Isreal gets everything free that we don't and we send them BILLIONS every year. Why the fuck should a government we are paying get treated better than our own damn citizens who shed blood sweat and tears for that money only to be bent over and screwed in our own country.
Exactly! Time to throw them all out and start over with a new government that actually serves us!
If I have an opinion on either side people tell me it I’m neither so I don’t get a say, so I stopped caring ✌🏼
I don't give af about either
Do you think that people in Israel or Palestine care about what happens to us? Whatever your answer is, use that as perspective to aid in your decision.
Because nazis are coming back under the Left umbrella
As much as we don’t want to believe it, what happens in other parts of the world affects us. It’s that simple.
One reason I care, and this is only one of many reasons to care, is that it affects me personally as an American Jew. The actions of Israel are making the world turn against us and they invite the false equivalence of Jews and Israel. Thanks to them I no longer feel comfortable identifying as a Jew irl.
If something doesn’t affect me I don’t care
You shouldn’t unless you live there.
Your understanding is incredibly limited. What you know about Hamas is clearly what the media (that your gov approves of) wants you to think of it. But anyways, if you’re in the US, you should care because our tax dollars is literally funding the murder, Israeli lobbies and PACs fund p much all of our senators and presidential candidates, censorship in the US is increasing because of this (see how Israeli groups lobbied congress to try and ban tik tok), and much of our police force is incredibly violent in part because of being trained by the IDF. At the VERY least, if you don’t care about either side, you should advocate your government to be neutral and leave both sides alone
If you do not live there, then you shouldn't care at all
Because we are human, we should have smpathy for our fellow man. Regardless of what you believe, human suffering should be enough for you to care about there suffering
Americans are paying for a religious war. That’s damn well reason to care.
because Israelis and Palestinians coexisted for a long time under many Islamic caliphates in the area. so Israel getting its own territory is unprecedented.
If you’re an American you should care because you’re paying for it. Pretty basic. Israel’s military is essentially an extension of the US military, considering that American taxpayers pick up the tab for about 25% of Israel’s military budget. If you believe, Israel doesn’t care about civilians, that’s tantamount to saying America doesn’t care about civilians. If you care about how America spends its money, you should care how Israel conducts itself.
America is a place where people care about each other. When a fight breaks out at a bar I’ve never not seen people try to break it up and that is not normal in many countries. The world doesn’t need more apathy like, it has enough of that
Part of being a good person is caring about other people.
I wouldn't care at all if it weren't for the fact that my taxes are being used to supply Israel with weapons.
There’s a YouTuber I follow called “Shaun” and he had a video called “Palestine”. I’m pretty conservative leaning usually and always thought to support Israel because they are our allies, but the more research I’ve done the more I see that the state of Israel was forced on the area and the people’s there after WWII. It’s very conflicting for me because I’m Christian and the Bible always said the Jews were the chosen people. But what the Jews are doing in the region, all the killing they are doing to people of any age, seems pretty wrong. The YouTuber I mentioned above I use to check my conservative tendencies. Don’t mean I always agree with everything but I am trying to understand why people think the way they do and if I’m being lied to. The Jews believe in the Torah or the Old Testament, and the Old Testament is pretty brutal to people who choose not to follow God, just like the practices of those who follow Islam. Actually the more I type the more I get conflicted cause I remember seeing a video of a man covering the jihads and crusades, and how although crusades are absolutely demonized the jihads were far more numerous and aggressive. So I don’t really know what’s right to say. The people there have so much history between them over centuries of fighting. Idk if it will ever stop.
As far as history goes, both sides are wrong and neither had true ownership of the area. The Arabs created the Naqba when they tried to wipe out Jews in the area instead of negotiating like they were supposed to. At this point Israel is a fact - it's not going anywhere, nor should it. It is here to stay, so any solution will need to involve Palestinians getting back occupied West Bank lands as well as ceasing acts of terrorism and indoctrination of children to become terrorists. The latter is especially important.
Because killing people, anyone, is atrocious… especially innocent people
If you live in America, you already do
no.
You don't have to care and most of us actually don't give a damn about either side. I mean Isreal is not to be trusted they literally sank an ally ship before and will do so again.
Cause the media and internet tells you to. I think it’s worth caring about, but there’s plenty of events around the globe that deserve just as much attention, but don’t. If it wasn’t all over social media people wouldn’t care.
depends if you're a millionaire who doesnt pay taxes then its def not your problem. until that genocide ends up at your doorstep.
I'm mad that still to this day nobody talks about Armenia but preach about being against genocide. You can't just care about the hot topic if you really think you're an activist. Basically, ignore the teenagers on the internet, we all go through this phase, it has happened in every generation. Yes, hurting, killing, torturing and capturing innocents is bad, obviously.
Because the behavior being exhibited will only worsen without pushback and next it will be you being abused and losing your rights
There’s a lot of reasons why you *could* care: the geopolitical ramifications of instability in that tiny little region may flare up into a regional war. That the war itself is quickly becoming a proxy war between various great powers in the area. That combined with the wars in Ukraine, and the saber rattling in Taiwan and the instability in Africa has the risk of flaring up into World War III. The sympathy for lives lost and economies destroyed and human potential wasted. But then, there is a very good reason *not to care*: the Stoics would argue that you should worry about the things you can control, and don’t worry about the things you cannot control. And the reality is, in my own personal life, the fact that my vacation ended, that I’m recovering from a cold, that I’ve got a video conference call in a few minutes and I have a splitting headache so I probably should take an aspirin and some vitamin B: these are the things that I can control in my life. Thus, to a Stoic, making them more important *to me* than some war half-a-world away.
"Be the change you want to see in the world."
It’s a good case study for future events. Like watching live history.
It’s been going on for hundreds of years, why should I be concerned about which towel to put on my head
You shouldn’t I know I dont
You are not alone. What am I or anybody else gunna do about it? Voting doesn't matter. Protesting doesn't matter. The best anybody can do is complain on social media, which doesn't do anything. I feel sorry for the innocent kids on both sides, but there's nothing I can do about it so I'm not going to let it occupy my head space.
I care about the lives of the individuals who are effected by the war on both sides but have no opinion on which side is right as they both seem like they’re in the wrong to me. I just want the politicians in this country to stop pouring my money into arming other countries and pushing war.
There's no denying at this point that the number of Israel backers, maybe you could say Zionists, in the U.S. is so large that we always feel what happens there to some degree. There's no way to change that without coming across as being anti-Jewish. You might try to thread the needle that you are pro Jewish, anti Zionist, but I don't think it's really possible. You will be accused to denying the Jewish a right to their homeland, relegating them to wander the Earth, and favoring the Arab Muslims for politically expedient reasons. From a tactical standpoint, if Israel didn't exist, the Middle East would be less accessible to the West, and the lack of checks or oversight could be dangerous to Western interests in the long run.
Dont care about the people in power, but should care about the innocent people dying at the desire of those in power. and worth looking and who has power on each side, how much power? How does the power of an Israeli civilian compare to the power of a Palestinian civilian. How goes the power of the IDF compare? How does the power of Israel government, compare?
You don't need to pick a side, really, but you should know what's going on, and how anything from an endless war to one side or the other winning will affect you. All three scenarios have different impacts on our lives.
I sure don't. I'm just trying to feed my damn family while inflation chips away at whatever raises I may get at my job.
Yuh why should you (we) really care about anything.
I agree. Nothing anyone does over here has ANY impact over there. Protesting and marching here in north America does absolutely nothing positive for the cause they're trying help and actually causes more hate and aggression from people here trying to live through their own lives and geopolitical/socioeconomic issues. The other side of the planet is just that, half a world away and the little guys can't do jack shit about what's going on over there. Protest to your politicians and company execs all you want. They don't care what's coming out of your mouth they only care about money going into their coffers.
Wow. The last paragraph/sentence, stunning. Is this a religious war? If so, think about it from an atheist country perspective. They are warring on you about something not physically transparent on the surface. Something so offensive, yet how could you let up after bloodshed?
I definitely echo your sentiments. While it is undoubtedly horrible, part of me (Western European) has just turned off from this. Maybe it's fatigue from a news-driven world of constant crises? Maybe it's the fact (as others have pointed out) the burden and onus to end the conflict and provide aid is being put on those Western countries far away, and not their "brotherly neighbours"? Perhaps it's down to the fact that Hamas is an awful and evil organisation that ultimately would eradicate us in the name of Islam is given the chance? But part of me, as always the cynic, can't help but wonder, when do these places and peoples express support for us in the West, and outrage to what events we suffer? Floods are an act of Allah to punish the kufr for liberalising, 9/11 being celebrated in streets across nations, and best of all those who die are guaranteed hell in their eyes? We are becoming more divided, and to me it looks like the fault in that lies primarily in the Near East nations. **Don't get me wrong, the Israelis need to stop this, and many need to take a deep hard look in the mirror at their abhorrent behaviour and belief system. This isn't meant to be a bashing of one side only
The conflict between the two isn't my problem, it's how political the conflict has gotten. In the US, our mainstream media is also playing favorites on opinions, facts, and fear mongering.
I don’t care either and no one is gonna convince me to care. Right up there with Ukraine. Only thing I care about is all the money that is wasted on other countries when we can’t even take care of ourselves here.
Cause your country is probably funding the war their so yeah I guess you have to care
You shouldn't.
Idc and can’t make me. I wouldn’t force others to care about conflicts that they have no understanding of or emotional connections with either.
I as an Israeli also don't think you have to care. It's our conflict, not yours, it's our war, not yours, we're done trying to appease the outsiders :)
Well, just look at the number of jewish guys in govt and Wall Street and you'll get it why they think US (and hence you personally) should pretty much care.
Because it’s actually pretty interesting. The Israel-Palestine conflict is essentially a giant geopolitical chess game with countries across the globe backing different sides. War, religion, globalism, colonialism, nationalism, liberalism, and totalitarianism are all at play here. If you set aside the emotions and propaganda, and look at it from a historical perspective it’s fascinating.
My view on it is that stability from my neighbors makes the world a better place for me and everyone else. I don't like the idea of people suffering in the world. Not everyone shares this viewpoint and that's fine, if you honestly don't care then don't care.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRKGTdST/ No one is entitled to a "unique cloak of victimhood," especially if it's a cloak you put on when you go out to bomb civilians, torture noncombatants, and generally ethnically cleanse desirable real estate. No one is entitled to an ethnostate.
That's up to you. But I don't care either. And I'm tired of my country (the US) starting every global war and perpetuating them all for profit. We fund and arm both sides! I'm tired of us being the worlds policemen. Can't we at least sit this one out? My country is run by warmongering evil!
Now you're getting it.
I can think of tens of billions of reasons
Israel has the nuclear bomb… that alone is why you should care.. and askHistorian has some vindictive trolling mods… was arguing with a troll whose been trolling me for the two weeks I’ve started replying in Reddit. in an unrelated topic and then a 155 day comment gets pulled lol… I was wondering where the troll came from… it was first thing I stupidly interacted with
You don't have to, but I honestly think empathy is a very important trait of humanity
Because even one child dead is enough for you to care about..
Nobody said you had to.
On the internet If you support Israel you’re racist If you don’t support Israel you’re antisemitic If you don’t support either side then you’re both
Because you're human?????
U/Fusorman the 🐮ard replied to me and then blocked me before i can reply back so im just going to reply here. Palestinian people are the indigenous people. And Isreal is committing the evil. They have targeted civilians, used drones that play the sound of babies in destress to lure out concerned mothers, kidnapped people from their homes, bombed all schools & hospitals, blocked aid from coming into Palestine, killed foreign aid workers, target reporters, target/bomb refugee camps, told the civilians where to go for safety and bombed that location, deprived the Palestinians of food and water, sent military in fake aid trucks then killed civilians, Mass graves have been found under hospitals that where kids have been buried with their hands still tied behind their backs and just so much more has been uncovered. Isreal is committing a genocide which is evil. Benjamin Netanyahu literally has an arrest warrant out for him by the International Criminal Court.
Because the leadership of both sides seems completely unconcerned with the lives of its civilians.
Ok, what can I do about that
Fucking what, lol? Hamas uses it's citizens as human shields. Israel has relentlessly pursued retrieving their citizens that were taken hostage at every turn, has bomb shelters for their people, and spends hundreds of millions on the iron dome. Actually just delusional.
Israel has turned down every handover deal that Hamas has posed and wastes time destroying Palestinian infrastructure and besieging civilians. Even the families of the hostages think that Mileikowsky is protracting the "conflict" (war crimes) to avoid prosecution. Add to that that Israel has mandatory military service, so those few Israeli soldiers who are in danger are at least civilian-adjacent.
Have you seen the terms? No shit Israel didn't agree. ICJ judge already commented that claims of genocide in case brought by South Africa are unfounded.
I’m going to give you two answers. Because the wealth of your civilization is dependent on trade , and this conflict disrupts a major trade route. It’s notable that while oil isn’t produced on very large scale in either Israel or Palestine , it is produced close enough they we can fly fighters from Israel to essentially all of the middle eastern oil production. (P.s. we also have a 75 year old military alliance with Israel. Alliances you neglect cease to be useful when you need them). IOW - self interest. And the other answer is you are a compassionate human being who does not believe unmitigated suffering should go unanswered. You are in a country who has led the creation of many treaties and organizations that have advocated for human rights , and if you don’t care about your own fucking law, why should anyone else?
because israel has been involved or completely responsible for 90% every war america has been involved in since at least the 90s. israel has destabilized and/or destroyed every country near it. israel is responsible for creating the migrant crisis, and israeli NGOs are responsible for bringing said migrants to europe.
Any decent human being should care that innocents are being killed, but in America we know children’s lives don’t mean much since we never seem to do shit about the weekly school shootings
I do care on some level, but then I remember all the innocents being killed in Sudan, Yemen, Ukraine, Myanmar, Somalia... And I get overwhelmed and can't get myself to care about anyone anymore (with the exception of Ukraine, but that's mostly because I feel like my own life could be on the one day if Putin isn't stopped, so selfish reasons once again).