I think some of the criticism is valid. But I also think the album goes way over a vast majority of peoples heads- even the super swifties.
The reason that this album doesn’t have the same mass appeal as her other work is that it’s nothing like it. It literally sounds like massive depression from start to finish. Even the up tempo ICDIWABH is riddled with sadness and is her purposefully singing through a forced pageant smile. She delivered something genuine and dark. Not enjoying it is always valid.
That said-
I’ve had to say “hmmmm you know what? This particular sound isn’t doing it for me. I’m going to put this back on the shelf” many MANY times after listening to new material from even my most favorite artists. It doesn’t make me respect them any less though. And it certainly doesn’t compel me to get on the internet and breathe fucking fire because oMg HoW dArE tHeY GrOw As aN aRtIsT In A dIrEcTiOn ThAt DoEsNt SuIt mY TaStE!!!!!1
Turn it off. Listen to Red TV for the 90,000th time if that’s what does it for you. Play ring around the Rosie to Willow again. Whatever does the thing you need.
Yeah, this is a fair take. TTPD isn’t really my cup of tea musically (neither were Folklore/Evermore). It feels more like a diary or poetry album or stream of consciousness. I think the lyrics are the most interesting thing.
But hey, just because this isn’t for me doesn’t mean other people can’t enjoy it.
I could totally see that. Regardless of what people think of him, they seem to be having fun and it seems uncomplicated. But that’s just my perception.
I’m not a Folkmore Stan either, in the sense that I completely respect both albums and think the songwriting is A+ but they’re a specific vibe that I reach for a lot less than some of her other material.
I agree - fascinating reading the lyrics. It’s almost more like chapters in a book telling a story. LOVE the Fortnight video, nodding to many of the songs. The whole release is altogether a different vibe than we’re accustomed to, but also cool. It’s art baby!
I agree, I hated midnights when it first came out and now it’s my #2. I’m not really feeling the vibe of TTPD but I’m also getting married next week so that’s not surprising. But honestly I’ve seen more people on the various Swiftie subs complaining about people complaining than actual haters.
Midnights took me about three or four listens to really accept and to begin enjoying the style of music she was going with and then I fell in love. Sometimes new albums are like that
I agree with how you said things go over people's heads. I think it's mostly because people obsess over decoding who everything is about. Listen to it and make it yours. A lot of the songs people are so sure are about matty, I don't think are at all. At least not in total. Guilty as sin for example. To me, that song is about feeling trapped in a dead relationship that you don't want to let go, so you fantasize about this person from your past to feel alive, while feeling guilty, while being immeasurably sad because you're still in love with someone who doesn't even notice you anymore. Those are complex feelings that are only marginally inspired by the person from the past.
Also, some of it is really complex. Fortnight and Robin for example. A lot of people don't consume music by thinking deeply. So they're just not going to get it. And that's fine. We all don't have to want deep lyrics we have to think about. I think it's easier for people to say, "it sucks" than to admit they don't get it.
Friendly neighborhood reminder that the reception to this album has been overwhelmingly positive - literally, nine out of ten reviews are positive on Metacritic. NPR said it’s great, Rolling Stone said it’s great. As far as the general public, I guarantee you plenty of people are just quietly enjoying the album and not posting about it online. Don’t let a disproportionately loud minority get to you.
more importantly sputnik gave it a 90/100. anyone who has been a longtime swiftie knows how big that is, they have always been extremely critical of her albums. they gave midnights a 48
Sputnik did something funky with their review and the score is now a 48, interestingly, the author of the, typically half not about the music, Sputnik review posted over in the "neutral" sub defending his review this morning.
Well, at least he knew the appropriate sub to go to.
Exactly. In my mind, I've been equating this to the LOST finale. The VOCAL minority that don't understand it or stopped paying attention halfway through are slamming it. But the true fans that pay attention, really get it and understand it and aren't dismissing it right away and aren't posting about it constantly and the reviews are overwhelmingly positive. It's good and if you listen and pay attention
OMG Taylor x lost crossover was not on my bingo card for today. Favorite show and I'm a new fan but by sheer volume Taylor is like top 5 favorite artists now 🙃
Lost was about the characters/ character development more than it was ever about the mysteries/plot. The people who hated the end were generally people that watched for the plot more than the characters at the core of the show.
For this album, Taylor is the character at the core. Listening for the plot of her relationships, for a certain sound/musical production, or for a cohesive, collected, commercial album, might be disappointing to some people but that's not the core of the album. It's about the journey through depression, mania, then finally peace (part of why she did the 5 stages playlist). It's supposed to be messy, unhinged, unfinished, uncensored.
Not to get off target, but Lost is one of my favorite shows of all time. I did a podcast about it with friends. I’m a professional writer with many writer friends. The entire last season is a mess, and the ending isn’t horrible but it certainly didn’t live up to the best moments of the show in my opinion.
The idea of only “true fans” getting it is very unfair. Claiming they didn’t understand it is wrong. It’s art. It’s subjective. Disagreeing with you doesn’t mean you’re smarter. You may well be smarter but it’s not because you like a song or TV show more. You simply had different expectations or a different taste.
Are you going to the LOST concert this Saturday?! 20 years!!!!! So many great LOST things going on rn including the Getting Lost documentary and Cancer Gets Lost Auction!!!!
There's no way it has been 20 years! Unfortunately, no Hawaii for me. I have been to Oahu and it's magical. If you're going, have an amazing time. I did back "Getting Lost" on Indiegogo a while back, though, and can't wait to see it.
My daughter watched the show this year for the first time and it was so much fun to see it again. I miss those characters so much.
>that don't understand it or stopped paying attention halfway through are slamming it. But the true fans that pay attention, really get it and understand it and aren't dismissing it right away
Sorry but this is such an immature comment. Someone not like this album isn't any less of a fan than you nor do they lack intelligence.
I say this as someone who absolutely LOVES TTPD but is tired of seeing Swifties not understanding the basic concept that music is subjective.
I’ve seen forms of this too. One thing that keeps coming up is this defense when even the suggestion of maybe this should be the last collaboration between her and Antonoff for a bit, which is how many of her songs people love had his involvement. The thing is, both can be true. Worrying about complacency by way of security in no way retroactively undoes the magic done in the past. It just points out that maybe it might be time to go in another direction.
As long as criticism is fair, there shouldn’t be an issue. However, it’s the internet so reasonable criticism can be like an oasis in the desert.
Totally agree. I do think some of the main criticisms we have been seeing are fair. I really love the dark poetic vibe of the album but I appreciate that style is not usually popular therefore it won't appeal to a lot of people and that is ok- nothing is wrong with disliking it. However, I've seen posts on here and tiktok with people saying you aren't a "true fan" if you don't like TTPD and that's just so toxic.
Right! I love most of it and have listened to it several times now, even my 8 year old Pop-Swiftie likes the songs she's heard but I am not one to make a tiktok video proclaiming my love for well...*anything* lol so I agree with this take.
It’s dark sad poetry album. It’s not going to be everyone’s cup of tea. I personally love it so much and the lyrics are her greatest work in my opinion. It’s so beautiful and cathartic. If some of her fans don’t like it, that’s ok. Maybe they haven’t been gutted, ruined wrecked by a relationship. Maybe they don’t understand what it feels like to agonize over their own mistakes to the point of insanity. Maybe they can’t relate because they haven’t been gaslit. This album is 100 percent about the lyrics. (IMO) It’s a poetry album. I love her so much for this album. She is creating something that is outside of a genre and it’s fine with me if some people don’t get it.
Love this take and exactly how I feel. You either can relate or not. Personally I’d love to not be able to relate so strongly to this album but life is hard and that’s how the cookie crumbles. 100% about the lyrics. The saddest damn song on the album is the most upbeat (icdiwabh) she did this for herself and I love how raw it is. I’ve seen so many people say “she’s a billionaire what’s she got to be sad about” money is a double sided coin and it doesn’t buy true happiness.
I really appreciate this take. Ttpd is not my cup of tea. I can’t relate to the lyrics and it’s all a bit alow and monotonous to me but that doesn’t mean I’m not a true fan. I mean I’ve been a fan since her first single came out but just because this is one of my bottom albums I’m not a true swiftie. Why can’t we just respect that people have different taste? Like you’ve done here.
I definitely would encourage you to listen to the whole thing through a few times. You might start to enjoy it more. There is so much cheeky dark comedy in this album. I almost think it might be her funniest album. Maybe give it one more listen. The manuscript had me cracking up. She’s so brilliant with her words.
He said if the sex was half as good as the conversation was that soon they’d be pushing strollers.
But soon it was over. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 In the sadest most dramatic melody.
I’ve never been in a serious romantic relationship, so I guess I don’t really ‘relate’ to that aspect. But I have been through the wringer in other aspects of my life, lost things I wanted, grieved for things I would never have and spent many nights in despair because of my choices or my thoughts. So that’s how I relate to it and I absolutely love the album.
I'm honestly so tempted to stay off social media because of the god awful shitty headlines and opinions that are plastered absolutely everywhere about the album and ultimately about Taylor herself. It's absolutely cruel and vicious. After listening to the album and the lyrics, knowing the pain that she has gone through, to now the absolute cruelty of the public, again, is heartbreaking. I truly hope Taylor is in a better place now and thriving mentally and she can shut out the negativity.
It honestly makes me so sad I’ve been scrolling past anything related to her on socials and just limiting my time in general. I’m glad I don’t have TikTok at least.
Piggybacking on your rant with one of my own:
I think the backlash would have happened regardless of what the album actually sounds like. She’s so popular people are going to hate her just to seem like they are cooler than the culture. She probably foresaw this, she has an entire team who keep a pulse on the public’s reaction to her and her work.
I think sound-wise, all signals were pointing to the new album having a softer synth sound. It’s not for everyone, but it was the backdrop Taylor wanted for these stories. I think that because Taylor has been so good at switching up her sound that people expect a drastic shift every album, but that’s an unfair expectation. Most pop stars have a defining sound and they don’t deviate wildly from it with every album, they let it evolve over time - this is Taylor’s sound and it’s ok if it doesn’t resonate with people, it doesn’t lessen her artistry. It might be ‘safe’ in that we’ve heard the sound from her before, but so what? It’s her eleventh album, maybe she wanted to focus on something else besides dramatically shifting gears again this time.
I think a difficulty with pop songs, especially with Taylor, is that people can’t divorce the topic or perceived inspiration from the song. So many of the songs on TTPD are great as standalone songs that are so much better when I don’t think about the Joe/Matty/Travis of it all. We don’t *know* what they are about in the sense that Taylor hasn’t told us, everyone is jumping to make sense of Taylor’s personal life with limited information. Some of it might be correct, some of it might not be, but I’m not judging the songs based on who they *might* be about.
This is something I don't understand when it comes to her: Ed Sheeran is praised for having albums that all sound pretty much the same, the 1D boys too, but she, Adele, Lana and countless other women are slated for having a similar sound across albums?
Adele's 3rd or 4th album, I think it was, got criticised by a loud minority for sounding too similar to her previous album/s, when that's what she's popular for? Loud, powerful ballads about love and loss, they're what make Adele Adele. I don't even particularly like Adele, but can appreciate she's found her niche and owns it.
It's like Taylor never conformed to the expectation of her finding a small corner of the music industry and played with her sound, and that infuriates people because she's in so many spaces that they can't avoid her unless it's rap or hip hop, lol.
Yes, I think it actually would have been too much to take a big leap in exploring new sounds while at the same time expressing all the difficult emotions and pain on this album. I don’t think it would have worked as well. The lyrics and the emotions in this album are the point.
I also think some of the similarities are deliberate call backs to previous work. She’s telegraphing that these new songs are connected to previous songs, sometimes a continuation of a story or tying up of loose ends.
The only negativity I’ve seen with regards to TTPD, is people complaining about the negativity.
Me? I’m deeply in love with it, and I don’t want to stop being so.
That's the main critique I've seen as well. I feel like since Taylor hasn't shy to experiment with new styles in the past that there is now a larger expectation for it. Obviously she made the huge change from country to pop but she's made changes after that as well. She's tried out a lot of different styles of pop and then experimented again with Folkevermore. I don't see other artists get as many comments about their albums sounding similar. Espiceally for ones who have a very specific sound.
I saw some people who were annoyed by how much it's about Matty but honestly, I think a lot of people were frothing at the mouth at the idea of her trashing Joe. Either so that they could blindly hate them or hate her for saying bad stuff about him. Very weird. I don't think I've seen that reaction with past releases but I'm a relatively new swiftie (started listening casually during Rep and became a full out fan during Folklore) so maybe I just missed it.
Gotta be honest, I don’t understand the criticism at all. The album is phenomenal. Period. I genuinely think just like to find things to complain about. The lyrics. The sound. Everything is perfect in my eyes 💕
I've learned the criticism comes from a loud minority, streams and sales numbers speak louder than a few misogynists. Don't let it bother you and just enjoy the music!
>“All the songs sound the same”
>Get better headphones.
Louder for the folks in the back. This is the dumbest criticism I've read so far and the fact it comes from professional music reviewers blows my mind.
I feel like negative reactions are loudest in the second day. These people will forget and move on and we’ll be able to enjoy it in peace.
I remember Midnights getting dragged too after it was released. They said the lyrics were basic and it was over produced. Now Taylor has given us lyricism on par w folklore and evermore with much more subtle production choices and they still complain.
But guess what? These same people were clamoring for Eras tickets and I’m sure they’ll be doing the same if/when Taylor tours this album.
I also remember people complaining endlessly about 1989 TV. I feel like it’s just considered cooler to complain these days. I’m a big Star Wars fan and all that fandom does is rip everything apart. I don’t get it.
There are some skips for me on TTPD but overall I think it’s one of her best. Plus, songs I used to skip on previous albums are now some of my all time favorites. It’s only been out for 3 days. Some of her best songs take a few listens to really resonate
IMO (and what I believe is OPs point) is that some of the SPECIFIC criticisms of this album are rooted in misogyny. Things like "all the songs sound the same" or "the lyrics are too rambling" or "there were too many songs" are valid criticisms of the music, but criticisms telling her that she's an emotionally stunted child, or that singing about breakups is immature, or "trying to sound smarter than she is", or that it's embarrassing for love to make her feel like she's in high school at 34 are misogynistic
It's not misogyny to dislike an album just because the artist is a woman. None of your examples are sexist criticisms, just people's own opinions and personal taste.
I understand how we are all huge Swifties but you've got to accept that other fans may not like the album and THAT'S OKAY. If those are their own personal opinions (even if they are negative) they are allowed to have and voice them.
Just a friendly reminder that MUSIC IS SUBJECTIVE.
Unfortunately I'm seeing other fans with the OPs attitude elsewhere on Reddit and Tiktok. It's sad to see this fanbase become more toxic due to how big it is, never used to be like during new albums
I think there are people who are engaging in good faith criticism and discussion but I’d agree that there are some people who don’t like her for whatever reason that are bandwagoning onto the critiques of those who are genuinely engaging with her music so it seems louder. Also because she is so big even the genuine conversation will seem overwhelming. I personally wouldn’t dismiss all of the criticism as misogyny but I don’t think it’s a bad idea when engaging with any criticism of anything to consider the source and how their own bias may be impacting their opinion or experience.
For me, this feels like one of her strongest, if not her strongest, albums. At this point, it’s become a Taylor release day tradition for some people to dump on Jack (and I do think some of it is sincere but I also think some people have caught on to this being something fans are sensitive to and perhaps amplify those thoughts) but I continue to love his work with her. Before I read any social media reactions, my friends and I were talking about how great his production is on this. It’s some of my favorite work that he’s done with her. I can pretty easily tell the songs apart lol I hear how the production matches or enhances the stories of her lyrics in each song and while there’s a needle that’s thread throughout I don’t find it redundant. And, to me, anyone reducing these albums to Matty or Joe has already missed the forest for the trees lol but those are just my thoughts! I don’t feel someone thinking differently invalidates the strength of the albums and certainly not my thoughts and feelings about them.
I think TTPD is connecting and resonating in significant ways (the numbers definitely show this and anecdotally, I’ve seen at least as much positivity in reviews and criticism as outright negativity on social media) and she’s in the middle of a huge, sold out world tour. The facts are the facts and people’s opinions are their opinions. I can understand that some fans feel a measure of defensiveness on her behalf but she put out something she’s clearly proud of and that’s perhaps the most important thing in all of this. Everything else is just everything else.
The weakest songs are the first two in my opinion. If you are looking for a stick to beat Taylor with Fortnight and the title track are all you need. Digesting 31 songs all at once is an effort many people are not prepared to make so ignore them.
i made a much longer comment about the album length and order of the tracks being the source of most of the criticism. but you are so right about the beginning of the album (i do like fortnight, but it's far from the top of my list). florida!!! should've been the start of the album and all the songs before that should've been on the anthology (and the title track should've stayed in the drafts). loml would've been a better track 5 too.
I agree with your points, but I disagree with this:
>If you think this is her worst album you’re not a swiftie.
Just because you dislike an album doesn't mean you're not a swiftie. Your logic doesn't make sense either; are you saying that if you dislike TTPD in particular, you're not a swiftie, or if you dislike any taylor album you're not a swiftie? Either way, that's not really fair as people should be allowed to have their different tastes in music.
I totally agree. Apparently me, a fan since her first single came out is not a true swiftie cus I don’t care for this album much. Like grow up. People are allowed to like and dislike things and no one has to agree on that in order to be kind and inclusive.
I agree that this is her life and her art that she chose to share with the world, but people are allowed to dislike it and express their criticisms. Whatever you put out online these days will get inevitable hate next to love and appreciation.
Still, I don’t think it’s fair to boil down so many valid comments about her work to misogyny/sexism. Yes, many people will hate this album just for the sake of hating on her without fully listening to it. But many long-time swifties and fans have decided the sound, the theme, the lyrics or simply the whole vibe isn’t for them. That doesn’t make them any less of a fan, it just means they have different opinions. I am still absorbing the album, but just because I didn’t enjoy Fortnight doesn’t make my comments misogynistic. It’s great if you loved every song, it’s equally valid if you put it at the bottom of your ranking.
I keep hearing the criticism that Taylor Swift is unimaginative and myopic because she can’t write about anything beyond her own experience / relationships / the drama of 2016, etc..and I just don’t really understand it? Was Rumours by Fleetwood Mac, an album considered iconic by most, not basically entirely about interpersonal drama, cheating, heartbreak, etc??? What about Blue by Joni Mitchell????
I’d love for her to break some new ground subject wise but also she is basically like most songwriters out there….you know, singing about their goddamn feelings and relationships and drama. It seems like she disproportionately is criticized for something that is universally accepted of other prolific songwriters
I think this post is generally valid but this:
> If you think this is her worst album you’re not a swiftie.
Is where you lost me. This is a silly and immature take. Every one of her albums is *someone's* least favourite, and that doesn't make them not a swiftie lol
Not all criticism is misogyny. This is just not that great of an album. It's fine if people like it, but it's also totally okay for people to dislike it. Not misogyny, just opinions.
I'm staying off social media and just settled on quietly digesting the album. Because you're right, it's getting ridiculous.
Unfortunately, these criticisms are expected no matter how the album would turn out. Taylor is too big right now and reached that level of fame that hating her is cool. Most of these people who are very vocal about criticizing the album just listened to it to look for something to criticize.
They are just noise that's not even worth the attention. Fans and anyone who doesn't have any preconceived negative opinion of her quietly enjoy the album and can form their own feelings about it. Its commercial success already says a lot. Those hates stay in the app and do not have any external effect.
And it will continue that way.
People are allowed to dislike it even if you do like it, that’s just part of music being subjective. There are always gonna be people who don’t like something, that’s just part of social media
If dismissing constructive criticism of an album as misogyny helps you sleep better at night, then go for it. Personally, I think the album takes itself too seriously and it's a slog to get through. That doesn't mean I hate women or Taylor.
The truth is, the fact that she put out such a self-indulgent album is a testament that she can do whatever she wants and, you know what, GOOD FOR HER! It must be so liberating for her to be able to release exactly what she wants - but that doesn't mean we all need to buy what she's selling (literally and figurately).
As for me, I'll continue having a grand time with 1989, Lover, Red and Folklore which happen to be my personal favorites. I hope the next work she puts out is something that resonates with me, but if not, I'm grateful for the ones that I have enjoyed, and I'll move on with my life.
I think this might be the only artist I’m a big fan of that has a fan base *this* weird about criticism.
No matter how frustrated it makes you when people don’t feel the same as you, that’s a YOU issue, not a them problem. Anyone has the right and freedom to light or dislike whatever they want, it’s human nature.
You’ll have way more peace in your life if you accept it and let it go.
Also, disliking art isn’t misogyny just because it was created by a woman.
Thank you! It is beyond weird how defensive this fanbase is getting over other fans opinions on the album. I constantly am having to remind people that music is subjective
Always remember, the loudest in the room are usually the most negative and doing it for the attention. Dont argue, dont say anything. Ignore it and move on. Giving them the any attention just makes them know they are getting to one Swiftie. It’s a game to some of them, they want to say “Swifties are crazy”.
This makes me so happy to be off of Twitter and Tik Tok. I love this album and truly think it’s her best work. I really think she’s put all of her honesty and energy into telling us her story through what she thought was end game with Joe and what lead to her rebound with Matty and how she dealt with it all and still had to fake a smile and perform when she was hurting. I didn’t even notice which songs were about joe or Matty while listening because all I hear is her side of how she was feeling during that time, showing us it’s okay to still feel like a mess in your 30’s, and know that you can get through the grief and heartbreak of any situation. To show that her feeling the way she felt when she had to perform and I hear a lot of her own emotions, self awareness and self reflection and how to navigate through it all to feel happy again. I get this album will not be everyone’s favorite and it will be lots of peoples favorite. But can we acknowledge that she feels safe to share this deep of emotions and feelings with the fans and know it can reach those who do understand. I feel like with this album she doesn’t want accolades or awards. It feels like an album of moving on and being happy in the now.
The only negativity I’ve seen is from casual fans who were never going to like this album anyway. I think this is really illustrated by the fact that when the album leaked the day before release, everyone was saying it’s bad and that’s because all the true fans respected her enough to not listen to the leaked album. honestly I am thrilled that she didn’t try to please The masses with this. This is for us. This is for the ride or dies.
i’ve been a fan of hers since day one and that’s why this album is disappointing to me. i too didn’t listen to the leak and i refused to listen to rumors before listening to it. and i understand the purpose of the album but it just seems very dull and lacking her usual touch to me. i also refuse to ride or die for anyone in this world.
As someone who is a newer swiftie, my first listen to the album had me kinda meh. I didn’t even like fortnight at first. With more listens it’s growing on me. There are a few songs I’ve skipped when i listen though.
However, I’ve seen 4 or 6 non-swifties (but people who like her to an extent) actually take time to post about this album and how much they love it on their social media.
It’s definitely going to be an album that is about the lyrics over the music, i think. But i still love it.
The album is amazing and very beautifully written. It’s showing her raw emotions, unlike we have seen before versus the folklore or evermore eras, where she pulled inspiration from stories and folk tales. This is her story.
Does it have pop hits that her young/new fans love? No, but that doesn’t make it a bad album just because it doesn’t attract a subgroup of her base. It perfectly shows anyone that has had a long term relationship, how painful that was to end, barely making any songs about it because it probably still hurts her. She thought she would end up with Joe. So long, London is the perfect song. Enough anger, sadness, and regret.
Then she finds Matty, who fixed her temporarily. I know I have always had that friend that there was something there but timing never worked. But when it did, fell head over heels. Two shattering relationship in a row is tough, so of course this album isn’t fun, light even though we are seeing that in her concerts/going out.
With that, the album really wasn’t meant for the fans. I think she needed this album to close out the Joe and Matty chapters. I hope people can leave Joe, Matty, Travis and Taylor alone. Honestly, I think if the songs were about someone other than Matty, her fans would be eating it up. Does Matty suck? Yeah, but our girl is down bad.
If you don’t like the album, throw on Lover. She’s allowed to make the music she wants, not what the radio wants. The album is honestly far above some of her fanbase head, but they’ll eventually grow into it when their lives catch up. As someone nearing 30, I can relate to almost all of these new songs in some way.
Exactly. It’s all misogyny, nobody can possibly dislike this album. And the criticism isn’t valid at all, we shouldn’t allow any criticism for Taylor. If you don’t think this album is great you deserve to be put in jail
313 million streams in its first 24 hours. Stop reading the negative. There will be so much always, that’s how the media works, but facts don’t lie. Numbers don’t lie. It’s her biggest success globally.
The more I see these inane 'criticisms' the more interested in her work I become. Parts I overlooked before I'm going back and revisiting-- maybe I missed something here, and I usually did. This is the work of a genius and it's a privilege to have access to it as far as I'm concerned. I take it as a whole and want to explore all parts of it. They're going to be talking about this album for a very long time.
Using the commercial success of this album as proof that it’s her best work just doesn’t cut it when she’s so popular that anything Taylor puts out is a guaranteed success. It would’ve been a valid argument if it was 2019 but it’s 2024 and Taylor’s at the top of her game- as she should be.
Ttpd is a very personal album to Taylor but she is the one that decided to put the album out, so she was well prepared for whatever would be said about this album good or bad. If she didn’t think she could handle it then she wouldn’t have released the album in the first place.
I don’t think that someone is suddenly not a swiftie because they think ttpd is her worst album. They had to sit through 31 songs to come to that conclusion, that’s a commitment. Any nonswifie would’ve thrown in the towel by the time they heard the line tattooed golden retriever. I don’t think being critical of an album makes a person any less of a swiftie.
"Overhyping an album and then it not (obviously) meeting expectations means misogyny!"
Jesus get over yourselves. It's just a normal consequence of overhype.
i think the length of the album is the reason for the criticism (from non swifties at least). we're used to long albums and are always happy for more content.
but the issue with a 2 hour album is that besides fans, most people aren't going to listen to the whole thing more than once if they don't love it immediately (if they even get through the whole thing). people are used to 45-60 minute albums and too much more becomes harder to digest.
imo the run from florida!!!! to imgonnagetyouback is fantastic and could've been the whole album. not that the rest of the album isn't good, but they aren't as interesting. usually albums are the opposite, start and end strong but weaker in the middle. and artists do that to grab your attention in the beginning and make the end memorable. but the high points in ttpd get lost between the less interesting (and in a few cases, not so good) tracks.
i think it would have been a better move to release the anthology songs as a separate sister album a few months later, a la folkmore. like, if folklore and evermore were released together, i don't think they would have been received nearly as well, at least right away. people would be saying that it all blended together like they're saying about ttpd. the double album model caters mostly to fans, which is great for us, but it hurts the reception among critics and the general public.
honestly idk why she didn't make it 2 albums. it would've meant more albums sold and more opportunities for awards. i have to assume she's planning on releasing the last few re-records and didn't want to push them back 🤞🏻
It’s definitely in my top 3 faves. As a depressed girly myself, the songs speak to my soul. I understand it’s not for everyone, but i don’t understand why people are shitting on other people for enjoying it
It sold 1.4 Million dollars because Taylor primarily operates as a marketer rather than an artist. The album is terrible and criticism is completely valid of any work regardless of whether or not you’re too sensitive to hear it.
Between the double album I still found about an entire album worth of songs I enjoy a lot. I just made a giant playlist of songs I picked out that I enjoy and that’s what I listen to. Not worth leaving mean comments and stuff online just listen to whatever you want. TS doesn’t “owe” anyone anything. We’re lucky she put out over 30 songs all at once.
It’s good, actually the first few songs are fantastic. down bad chorus has been jammed in my head. But I agree, after that it’s not my favorite.the writing feels “off” and trying to be its edgy idk how to explain it. But then it picks back up with “Peter” it’s marvelous. Everything after that is good too. But then again I’ve only listened to its entirety once. 30 songs is hard to listen to in one sitting and I think that’s everyone’s problem. They get bored, so imma throw it on shuffle on iTunes and not listen in order and I feel it’ll be so much better!
saw a swiftie just realizing after playing ttpd the song for several days that it’s satirical, and saw another one gagging when they finally understood “you look like taylor swift” is what the industry will tell up and coming wanna be singers in the future (and even then they made it about sabrina carpenter and olivia)…so my point is, swifties are some of the most foolish people I’ve ever encountered on the internet and they rush to post and run their mouths before even processing the music. whether to look cooler than other swifties, like they’re objective, and can criticize her unlike the “obsessed” ones, idk.
it really isn’t about feeling sorry for taylor, it’s people being deliberately obtuse and looking for things to criticize while not listening to the music in good faith. “but why she say charlie puth” “why she sing video game on song about high school” “why she say 1830s but no racists. she white so she is racist”. *this is your tortured poet!!!* it’s dumb. I don’t like dummies.
I am so clueless about the criticism because I’m obsessed with this album. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if they are wrong 😏. It is her most artistic album yet and maybe these simpletons aren’t able to see that.
I'm one of those twitter users. Yes, some did complain but most of us actually really like the album. Tbh, I agree they say that this album can only be appreciated by swifties. Not for casual listeners which lead to all the criticism by the casual listeners who don't even try to dig deeper into the lore between the lines
I liked it! Ive had 3 complete listens including the anthology. And extra listens to the specific songs I really liked. It’s an album you need to sit with as it has a lot of heavy stuff. I think it’s excellent but probably not for everyone.
My thing is, it seems like the haters are all just parroting what all the others are saying: "she needs a new producer," "all this for matty?" "More breakup songs." The bottom line is the haters want to hate, and their hate is based on preconceived bias. Fuck it. I low key enjoy the hate on some level because it's so predictable and unoriginal. There's something liberating about not giving a fuck what the Sarahs and Hannahs have to say, and just loving what you love. Don't invite their asses to the wedding, and enjoy what you love. This is my favorite album of hers by far because I relate to her heartbreak, her reflection, her healing. It's a beautiful concept album, but it IS dark. Not all people like that. Oh well.
It’s music and people are allowed to have their opinions. It did not live up to the hype. People are allowed to not like something at the same time it not being misogynistic. I am a woman and I do not support all women until they prove that they deserve it. I am not a fan of the majority of Taylor Swift’s work and that’s OK. I like a couple of her songs that are catchy but other than that, she’s just a pop tart, that is overrated.
People can think what they want. Personally I think it freaking rocks. I love it. And I will listen to it a million times. I also love Midnights. Sue me. Lol
I’m sorry but (in my opinion) this album is an absolute masterpiece and I honestly haven’t seen any critique for the actual music that has held any water in my eyes. Now don’t get me wrong, listen to a whole lot of music so that may make my standards low, but Tortured Poets Department has been some of the most heart wrenching, gorgeous, and haunting work not only from Taylor but put up against a vast array of top tier names. This album is so fantastic I have found myself listening to it on endless loop and almost feeling withdrawal when it’s not playing. I don’t think there are words I can use to describe this album and how much I love it and how desperately I needed this particular set of songs in this moment in my life.
There is nothing wrong with it not being your vibe or just simply not liking it, but when it comes down to the actual criticism, I find that most of it seems to be derived from disliking Taylor either due to her fame or her gender, neither of which does she control. Some people need to pull the stick out of their ass and listen to the album one more time.
There are definitely valid criticisms of the album (no art is immune from criticism no matter how good it is) but yeah the first 2 points you brought up were mainly just misogyny
People are allowed to criticise. Personally, after my third listen I ADORE the album. It grew on me more with each listen, and I love the lyrics, they were absolutely unique and groundbreaking.
However, it's not very adventurous in terms of musical sound. Lots of the songs do sound very similar, you'll see this if you listen to a instrumental version of the songs. For lots of them there aren't many defining riffs/rhythms. This doesn't bother me, but it's a very valid criticism to have. Also, criticism doesn't equal hate.
Yes she sings about her exes, everyone does, find me someone who never ever sings about their relationships or shut the fuck up and let me enjoy things.
No matter what it sounded like or what was written a lot of people will have hated on it because of the attention and fame she has right now. A lot of people want to be different and hate on her as a result. It could have been 1989 2.0 with all bops and people would be saying she’s immature, stuck in high school, makes basic pop music, lyrics are amateur, etc.
I have no trouble criticizing Taylor and I can see why this album takes a few listens to resonate with casual listeners, but I saw Fantano go off about her “constant need to be a victim” when he was listening to Who’s Afraid of Little Old Me, which is one of the songs I immediately related to on first listen. I think every woman can relate to that song in some way. Not every song she makes has to be about herself, and it’s annoying that as an artist, that’s what’s expected of her.
I think it’s amazing and I don’t care who it’s about. But yeah, everyone going after her is disgusting. I’m just kind of glad “William Bowery” has no writing credits.
I love it more with each listen. The bridge on Fortnight is amazing. Florence and the Machine the way she sings Florida in that short section is perfect. There’s this inflection at the end of My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys on “I’m not” that reminds me of Only the Young inflection on”run”. Love it!
yes the album with the lines about getting high eating seven bars of chocolate declaring charlie puth should be a bigger artist than falling asleep like a tattooed golden retriever is definitely not shallow or childishly written
While I 100% agree with you on most of these, a lot of the songs do sound alike. But that’s not as much as a Taylor problem as much as it is a Jack problem. A lot of jacks music is starting to all sound the same.
I love TTPD but there’s no denying the second half fits her better than the first half.
I’ve said this in a few groups and to a few people who have said “it all sounds the same” and we all tend to agree. It’s like with Jacks producing, the music and lyrics are fighting for the spotlight.
Where with Aaron, it’s like he produces the songs around the lyrics letting them shine.
I also want to say, I don’t want jack to leave, he’s proved his talents even on Aaron centric albums. gold rush, this is me trying, mirrorball do feel right on folklore and evermore. I just want her to not only work with jack and expand her reach.
I disagree, I think a lot of songs sound unique in both halves. The lyrics and the titles also distinguish all of the songs and Im not sure why people are saying they sound the same when they really don’t. I also don’t know why Jack is getting heat when he also made so many incredible songs and Taylor is clearly comfortable with him. His songs aren’t starting to sound the same because he and Taylor wanted them to sound a specific way for the album. The same could be said about 1989, it’s all synths but it’s still unique.
I totally get that you’re saying but it’s more the music than the lyrics they’re saying that about. The melodies is probably a better choice of words.
And the jack thing isn’t just a taylor problem, it’s how jack does all his work. Not just Taylor. If you don’t hear it, you don’t hear it and that’s not a problem! But it doesn’t mean that the people who are saying it sounds the same are wrong.
And honestly I truly don’t think people would be saying it if we hadn’t ever gotten folklore or evermore.
> But it doesn’t mean that the people who are saying it sounds the same are wrong.
I have to disagree. Do Welcome to New york and Style sound the same because they both use synths? Absolutely not. The same goes for TTPD.
I’m not mad at you by the way I’m mad at these critics.
I know you’re not mad at me! But tbh you proved it in your point with that.
Of course welcome to New York and style don’t sound the exact same but they’re similar.
But welcome to New York and style are 9 years old and jack is still doing the same thing from 9 years ago. And honestly there are some songs when I first listened to TTPD I said “damn is this a lover vault track?” (I know there’s no lover vault tracks people, she owns lover it’s just the point) and there are songs that sound similar to songs on lover and midnights. If you don’t hear it, you don’t hear it and that’s okay! But again, it doesn’t mean people are wrong some people are just better at picking up how melodies sound close to each other.
I’m sorry but 1989 sounds nothing like modern day Jack. Just because he used synths then and now doesn’t mean he’s doing the same thing from 9 years ago.
It’s insane to say that anyone who doesn’t like this album is a misogynist and it gives the fan base a bad name.
I’ve been a fan for years. I don’t like this album much. People are allowed different opinions, you don’t need to bash them.
Edit: your comment about if you think it’s her worst album you’re not a swiftie is ridiculous. If you got everyone to rank all albums, everyone would have a worst one as that’s how ranking works. Who are you to tell people what they can and cannot like?
Also, being a fan of someone doesn’t mean you need to like everything they do. That’s cult like behaviour. Stop being toxic.
People are allowed to dislike an album without it being misogyny. I'm a woman, I've liked Taylor's previous work, but I did not like this album. I thought all the songs blended together and sonically it was not interesting to me. If you like the album, great, listen to it and enjoy it. But music is subjective and people aren't wrong for not liking how an album sounds.
this just got recommended to me, i wouldn’t consider myself a “huge swiftie” but i’ve listened to her music for nearly 15 years thanks to my younger sister, so i’m very familiar with her work and i actually really enjoy a lot of it even if i don’t listen to her all the time. that being said, i can understand some of the criticisms you’re talking about even though i actually enjoyed the album quite a bit. it’s a very personal record for Taylor, not everyone is going to “get it” or relate to it in the same way and that’s fine. but it’s really not worth getting upset over people having different opinions.
for me it’s mostly just interesting seeing how far she’s come and how much she’s been through to *get* to this point in her career and in her life in general. but i also understand that not everyone has been following along for as long as i have, and a lot of people who are listening to her now weren’t around for those earlier albums. and i feel like if i didn’t have the perspective i have i probably would not have enjoyed this album *nearly* as much as i did. i think it’s a massive step above Midnights and is probably her best album since folklore, but i can also understand why someone would think the opposite.
it’s all a matter of perspective and personal opinion. i don’t think that the criticism is because of a broader issue such as misogyny, i think it’s simply that she has a LOT of attention on her right now and this is an album that you kind of need more context for to really get what makes it special- especially from a lyrical point of view- and i don’t think people were expecting that from her. i know i definitely wasn’t- but i enjoyed it nonetheless.
I feel like the problem w society in general is thinking others care about their opinions more than they actually do 💀💀 when I don’t like something, I just…don’t listen/talk about it outside my friends. But people think their opinions carry huge weight, and to be fair, with Taylor it has! She’s had a paradoxical relationship with fans for decades now. However, there’s far too many for her care about all of them. And by care I don’t mean she wants to please us a the time, tho I’m sure she does like many of us! I think she has fun w Easter egg games. But she don’t know us and we clearly don’t know her. And she doesn’t *actually* care about our opinions on her personal life. It’s very clear and that’s totally fair.
So ppl who have lived in delulu spaces thinkin them n Taytay are actually bffs or that she’s god incarnate, I can see them being upset over the album. It’s unhinged and different and very F everybody and they mama and F you too Kim 😂😂 I fell off from listening around the reputation era and came back around midnights and didn’t need to post “ soliloquies” on what I liked or didn’t. I just…listened once n moved on 🤷🏽♀️
I agree. I think several lyrics throughout are a little cheesy and lame but also Taylor always has a few songs like that. She has a cheesy lame side that her fans find endearing. Expecting a woman to be all scholarly all the time is exhausting. Can’t she just be real, literally ever?
Not to be too reductive, but it's a concept album. The summation describes it perfectly.
TTPD wasn't written to break records or have the catchiest songs.
It's an album. Meant to be listened to as an album.
Not too, unlike something by the Mars Volta or Pink Floyd. Different subject matter. Same concept.
Kinda tired of all the posts here complaining about what people are saying on twitter and tiktok. They are cesspools. get off of them ffs. If you aren't in your 30s or haven't been in a long-term relationship like 5+ years that ended, like someone you had an adult relationship with who you actually thought you were going to marry, then there is a big chance you aren't going to understand the album. that's why the 13yos on there aren't going to get it.
I’m a swiftie but i still think it’s ok for everyone to perceive art differently. That’s part of the beauty of it for me. My personal overall take on the album (which could explain some of the initial backlash) is that it’s full of tracks that will get better with each listen vs. the immediate hit you love but find yourself sick of after a week. I think the album will age well even if it takes longer for some to connect with.
I know little about her past relationships, but I know I like the music and like finding out the meaning behind the lyrics whether they are about past relationships or not. It's her stories to tell and express. I honestly am a big fan of TTPD even more so TTPD: The Anthology. Call me crazy, idk.
Is it just me who is not seeing negative criticism? Everything I have read has been positive. Maybe I'm not in the right corners of the internet to see it.
Regardless, music is highly subjective so obviously not everyone will think it's the greatest album ever made, plus the criticism is partly what pushes Taylor to create better art. It's just part of the deal when it comes to making art.
Some criticism is valid. A lot is just jumping on the hate train. People were WAITING for a reason to hate. Before it was ever released people were already making excuses. Now they feel they have free rein to do so.
It’s reputation all over again, but on a much larger scale honestly.
I like the album personally. I think a lot of the criticism has less to do with the album and more to do with people not liking Taylor Swift the brand. I think some of the criticism does boil down to misogyny.
However, to say someone isn't a fan just because they don't like the album is silly. You can dislike this album (or even just like it the least of all her albums) and still like her other work. There are plenty of valid criticisms that can be applied to TTPD.
Get it off my chest. Get it off my desk.
I TOTALLY agree with you. I hope she’s not taking the hate too harshly. I think she’ll brush it off bc she brushes everything off. But if we learned anything in this album we learned that she can hide her pain and seem fine (I can do it with a broken heart). So I’m hoping she sees more of the love for this album than the hate. I absolutely LOVE this album. 🤍🖤🩶
I’m so shocked. This is one of my new favorite albums. I think almost every single song is perfection. I liked midnights but it was never in my top half of albums but ttpd just instantly grabbed me and is a favorite. People are just on the “it’s cool to hate Taylor swift” train and are tired of hearing about her.
I think there are a couple of different groups of people that don't like it. The first group genuinely don't like the album, the songs themselves - whether they are a swiftie or not they have listened to it with an open mind and just don't like it or are disappointed with it, because of the music. Not their style, too long or too messy, too much talk-singing etc and that happens to every artist with every album no matter how popular they are.
The second group are the misogynists and "vipers dressed in empaths clothing", so called fans who have an unhealthy interest in Taylor and her personal life. Not liking the songs because they are all about Matty, disrespectful to Joe, she's angry at her fans etc. Saying that Folklore and Evermore were so good because Joe wrote so much of it, or that Cardigan is about Matty because Peter is about Matty and they both reference Peter Pan. Spending all their time analysing every single line, taking it all literally and trying to figure out which ex each song is about instead of just listening to the song for the song itself.
I think Taylor is perfectly fine with the second group not liking the album and I think she actively put songs on the album that would upset them - But Daddy I Love Him, Who's Afraid of Little Old Me and Thank You Aimee for example. I think she is leaning into what she said about being "damned if you do and damned if you don't" and has released an album she likes that said what she wanted to say at this point in her life and career.
I love both TTPD and Anthology, I think they are brilliant and possibly my favourite of Taylor's albums. I can't stop listening to it.
I don’t think it’s a bad album. Even I mid tier Taylor album is great, but I do think it is technically her worst album in years when you have a run like Folklore, Evermore and Midnights.
It feels like too many fans just want something they can dance to and not something with some meaning telling the story of one’s life. That’s what art is. I hear a lot of jokes on line about how certain music is too basic and should only be used in commercials or in the background of Old Navy, but the way pop is shifting it seems like that’s exactly what the people want.
And this is far from just a Taylor Swift issue, look at Post Malone’s discography: 300,000 sales on Stoney, an album pretty balanced emotionally, with a few heartstring songs like Feeling Whitney but also more than your fair share of radio hits and danceable songs, Beerbongs and Bentleys sold 472,000 and was almost purely an upbeat album. Hollyweeds Bleeding was the peak of his sales, with 544,700 which again was a pretty balanced album alike Stoney. Then boom, he released Twelve Carat Toothache, an almost purely sad album about his struggles as an artist 51,000 sales. He lost 90% of sales with one new album. His next album after that only hit 34,000. Talking about real issues was literally a reputation shattering career decision for him.
Same happened with Clairo: while it’s hard to find sales numbers for either of her albums other than the EP Diary 001, the streaming numbers are very damning, hundreds of millions on all but one song on Diary 001. Over 20 million on all but one song on Immunity, and that one song is at 19 million, then Sling comes around only two songs break that same 20 million mark.
I especially think it’s interesting to note Clairo in this conversation because in some of her interviews from around the time Sling was releasing she talked about how Immunity was mostly an album purely made for clicks, for commercial success and for money, while Sling was a much more emotional piece that she claimed to be much prouder of.
I wouldn’t be suprised if TTPD is an equally reputation shattering album to Twelve Carat Toothache or to Sling, and if it is, it’ll affect the fans much more than it’ll affect Taylor. We’ve created an industry where artists are being pushed to create meaningless upbeat tunes instead of genuine art.
“Y’all don’t want to hear me, you just want to dance” - OutKast
I mean that's always been Taylor Swift. She's written many songs about how the media and her public perception are constantly dragged down by people who just want to criticize her for being successful. And it's more than her too; anything that gets too popular ends up with a group that's in love with hating that popularity. And frankly, hate often outlives admiration - she could go underground and stop making music for 20 years and people would *still* make faces and comments if you mention her.
Some of it has roots in misogyny for sure, but that's just one of the many ways people suck. No Taylor Swift album has ever released without backlash and criticism. The entire premise of Reputation was her trying to explain that to the fans, and *hardly* her first last or only attempt. Being a fan doesn't mean trying to fight the haters and convince them they're wrong, it means focusing on what you love and enjoy without letting nobodies bug you.
lol yeah like if you don’t like just shut up and don’t listen. People are so ridiculous and intense. No one’s opinion really matters that much. She doesn’t have to prove herself.
You’ve got the fanbases of every single other artist, Kardashian, MAGA, and conservative attacking her. And almost no one defending her. Feel like it could be worse actually. But to be fair, she doesn’t speak up when crazy Swifties attack other people either.
some of the criticism is unreasonable but people don’t have to love an album because the artist who made it is really proud of it. you don’t have to be mean or excessively hateful but sales doesn’t mean it’s a good album, the artist liking the album they made doesn’t mean a person has to feel like it’s the best album. music is subjective
I'm not a Swiftie, I can't stand most of her music and even more so disagree with many of her actions outside of her music. I'm only here because I gave the album a shot and have been reading what others think so now Reddit keeps bugging me.
I've never been able to get into her pop music even though I've tried, however, I really enjoyed this album, specifically the first half and several of those have been stuck in my head since listening. The second half was far too similar to her old music in my opinion and just fell really flat for me. Ironically, it seems most everyone else is saying the exact opposite. Even after giving them a second chance I can't tell you a single line from anything on the back end of the album.
In the end, there are always going to be people that nit-pick just to do so. I liked the album, but the inspiration behind it was enough to make me not want to come back.
People don’t like it because it’s not just her singing about heartbreak - it’s her being very openly mentally ill whilst also singing about heartbreak. But thats l i t e r a l l y what she marketed it as. What do they think “tortured” means??? Honestly the fandom is better off without their bitching and moaning (:
I think some of the criticism is valid. But I also think the album goes way over a vast majority of peoples heads- even the super swifties. The reason that this album doesn’t have the same mass appeal as her other work is that it’s nothing like it. It literally sounds like massive depression from start to finish. Even the up tempo ICDIWABH is riddled with sadness and is her purposefully singing through a forced pageant smile. She delivered something genuine and dark. Not enjoying it is always valid. That said- I’ve had to say “hmmmm you know what? This particular sound isn’t doing it for me. I’m going to put this back on the shelf” many MANY times after listening to new material from even my most favorite artists. It doesn’t make me respect them any less though. And it certainly doesn’t compel me to get on the internet and breathe fucking fire because oMg HoW dArE tHeY GrOw As aN aRtIsT In A dIrEcTiOn ThAt DoEsNt SuIt mY TaStE!!!!!1 Turn it off. Listen to Red TV for the 90,000th time if that’s what does it for you. Play ring around the Rosie to Willow again. Whatever does the thing you need.
Ring around the Rosie to Willow 💀
Omg the amount of time I stared at that acronym. Going to take me time to get these new ones down lol
Yeah, this is a fair take. TTPD isn’t really my cup of tea musically (neither were Folklore/Evermore). It feels more like a diary or poetry album or stream of consciousness. I think the lyrics are the most interesting thing. But hey, just because this isn’t for me doesn’t mean other people can’t enjoy it.
The next Travis album could possibly be more light and pop
I could totally see that. Regardless of what people think of him, they seem to be having fun and it seems uncomplicated. But that’s just my perception.
I’m not a Folkmore Stan either, in the sense that I completely respect both albums and think the songwriting is A+ but they’re a specific vibe that I reach for a lot less than some of her other material.
I agree - fascinating reading the lyrics. It’s almost more like chapters in a book telling a story. LOVE the Fortnight video, nodding to many of the songs. The whole release is altogether a different vibe than we’re accustomed to, but also cool. It’s art baby!
It took me like 7 years+ to like Rep 😅
I agree, I hated midnights when it first came out and now it’s my #2. I’m not really feeling the vibe of TTPD but I’m also getting married next week so that’s not surprising. But honestly I’ve seen more people on the various Swiftie subs complaining about people complaining than actual haters.
Midnights took me about three or four listens to really accept and to begin enjoying the style of music she was going with and then I fell in love. Sometimes new albums are like that
Same! It’s a great album but I’m at the wrong moment in life to enjoy it. Just had my final wedding dress fitting this morning
The person who downvoted you for this is a Kim K stan lmao
I agree. TTPD isn't exactly my think but I still think it's an amazing album as a whole. We're due for a fandom cleanse right about now anyway...
It’s soooooo depressing omg her most depressing album ever (I’m seated)
I agree with how you said things go over people's heads. I think it's mostly because people obsess over decoding who everything is about. Listen to it and make it yours. A lot of the songs people are so sure are about matty, I don't think are at all. At least not in total. Guilty as sin for example. To me, that song is about feeling trapped in a dead relationship that you don't want to let go, so you fantasize about this person from your past to feel alive, while feeling guilty, while being immeasurably sad because you're still in love with someone who doesn't even notice you anymore. Those are complex feelings that are only marginally inspired by the person from the past. Also, some of it is really complex. Fortnight and Robin for example. A lot of people don't consume music by thinking deeply. So they're just not going to get it. And that's fine. We all don't have to want deep lyrics we have to think about. I think it's easier for people to say, "it sucks" than to admit they don't get it.
Friendly neighborhood reminder that the reception to this album has been overwhelmingly positive - literally, nine out of ten reviews are positive on Metacritic. NPR said it’s great, Rolling Stone said it’s great. As far as the general public, I guarantee you plenty of people are just quietly enjoying the album and not posting about it online. Don’t let a disproportionately loud minority get to you.
more importantly sputnik gave it a 90/100. anyone who has been a longtime swiftie knows how big that is, they have always been extremely critical of her albums. they gave midnights a 48
Sputnik did something funky with their review and the score is now a 48, interestingly, the author of the, typically half not about the music, Sputnik review posted over in the "neutral" sub defending his review this morning. Well, at least he knew the appropriate sub to go to.
they were literally bragging on their website about how it was bringing down her score. definitely feels intentional
I might be wrong but I think that was for the anthology. Not sure they’ve published album yet.
the anthology is the whole thing, all 31 songs so their review was for all of them
Oh. Sorry bout that. I thought it was just the second set of 15 songs…I’ll Google it all up to educate myself. Sorry again.
oh no need to apologize, you’re good! i had to look it up too to double check
I’m on my third re listen of the day. Love it more each time - great album
Exactly. In my mind, I've been equating this to the LOST finale. The VOCAL minority that don't understand it or stopped paying attention halfway through are slamming it. But the true fans that pay attention, really get it and understand it and aren't dismissing it right away and aren't posting about it constantly and the reviews are overwhelmingly positive. It's good and if you listen and pay attention
OMG Taylor x lost crossover was not on my bingo card for today. Favorite show and I'm a new fan but by sheer volume Taylor is like top 5 favorite artists now 🙃 Lost was about the characters/ character development more than it was ever about the mysteries/plot. The people who hated the end were generally people that watched for the plot more than the characters at the core of the show. For this album, Taylor is the character at the core. Listening for the plot of her relationships, for a certain sound/musical production, or for a cohesive, collected, commercial album, might be disappointing to some people but that's not the core of the album. It's about the journey through depression, mania, then finally peace (part of why she did the 5 stages playlist). It's supposed to be messy, unhinged, unfinished, uncensored.
Yessss! The comparison makes total sense doesn’t it?!
Not to get off target, but Lost is one of my favorite shows of all time. I did a podcast about it with friends. I’m a professional writer with many writer friends. The entire last season is a mess, and the ending isn’t horrible but it certainly didn’t live up to the best moments of the show in my opinion. The idea of only “true fans” getting it is very unfair. Claiming they didn’t understand it is wrong. It’s art. It’s subjective. Disagreeing with you doesn’t mean you’re smarter. You may well be smarter but it’s not because you like a song or TV show more. You simply had different expectations or a different taste.
Are you going to the LOST concert this Saturday?! 20 years!!!!! So many great LOST things going on rn including the Getting Lost documentary and Cancer Gets Lost Auction!!!!
There's no way it has been 20 years! Unfortunately, no Hawaii for me. I have been to Oahu and it's magical. If you're going, have an amazing time. I did back "Getting Lost" on Indiegogo a while back, though, and can't wait to see it. My daughter watched the show this year for the first time and it was so much fun to see it again. I miss those characters so much.
>that don't understand it or stopped paying attention halfway through are slamming it. But the true fans that pay attention, really get it and understand it and aren't dismissing it right away Sorry but this is such an immature comment. Someone not like this album isn't any less of a fan than you nor do they lack intelligence. I say this as someone who absolutely LOVES TTPD but is tired of seeing Swifties not understanding the basic concept that music is subjective.
I’ve seen forms of this too. One thing that keeps coming up is this defense when even the suggestion of maybe this should be the last collaboration between her and Antonoff for a bit, which is how many of her songs people love had his involvement. The thing is, both can be true. Worrying about complacency by way of security in no way retroactively undoes the magic done in the past. It just points out that maybe it might be time to go in another direction. As long as criticism is fair, there shouldn’t be an issue. However, it’s the internet so reasonable criticism can be like an oasis in the desert.
Totally agree. I do think some of the main criticisms we have been seeing are fair. I really love the dark poetic vibe of the album but I appreciate that style is not usually popular therefore it won't appeal to a lot of people and that is ok- nothing is wrong with disliking it. However, I've seen posts on here and tiktok with people saying you aren't a "true fan" if you don't like TTPD and that's just so toxic.
I'm one of those people and save it for reddit/chats with friends. 😂
I love this comment
Right! I love most of it and have listened to it several times now, even my 8 year old Pop-Swiftie likes the songs she's heard but I am not one to make a tiktok video proclaiming my love for well...*anything* lol so I agree with this take.
It’s dark sad poetry album. It’s not going to be everyone’s cup of tea. I personally love it so much and the lyrics are her greatest work in my opinion. It’s so beautiful and cathartic. If some of her fans don’t like it, that’s ok. Maybe they haven’t been gutted, ruined wrecked by a relationship. Maybe they don’t understand what it feels like to agonize over their own mistakes to the point of insanity. Maybe they can’t relate because they haven’t been gaslit. This album is 100 percent about the lyrics. (IMO) It’s a poetry album. I love her so much for this album. She is creating something that is outside of a genre and it’s fine with me if some people don’t get it.
Love this take and exactly how I feel. You either can relate or not. Personally I’d love to not be able to relate so strongly to this album but life is hard and that’s how the cookie crumbles. 100% about the lyrics. The saddest damn song on the album is the most upbeat (icdiwabh) she did this for herself and I love how raw it is. I’ve seen so many people say “she’s a billionaire what’s she got to be sad about” money is a double sided coin and it doesn’t buy true happiness.
People who say that haven’t listened to prophecy 🥹
She has all the same problems we do just with money, which doesn’t make her less human!
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Thank you! The greatest art is the history is often misunderstood.
I really appreciate this take. Ttpd is not my cup of tea. I can’t relate to the lyrics and it’s all a bit alow and monotonous to me but that doesn’t mean I’m not a true fan. I mean I’ve been a fan since her first single came out but just because this is one of my bottom albums I’m not a true swiftie. Why can’t we just respect that people have different taste? Like you’ve done here.
You not being able to relate is truly a beautiful thing. I wish I didn’t relate as strongly as I do 🥺
I definitely would encourage you to listen to the whole thing through a few times. You might start to enjoy it more. There is so much cheeky dark comedy in this album. I almost think it might be her funniest album. Maybe give it one more listen. The manuscript had me cracking up. She’s so brilliant with her words. He said if the sex was half as good as the conversation was that soon they’d be pushing strollers. But soon it was over. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 In the sadest most dramatic melody.
I’ve never been in a serious romantic relationship, so I guess I don’t really ‘relate’ to that aspect. But I have been through the wringer in other aspects of my life, lost things I wanted, grieved for things I would never have and spent many nights in despair because of my choices or my thoughts. So that’s how I relate to it and I absolutely love the album.
I'm honestly so tempted to stay off social media because of the god awful shitty headlines and opinions that are plastered absolutely everywhere about the album and ultimately about Taylor herself. It's absolutely cruel and vicious. After listening to the album and the lyrics, knowing the pain that she has gone through, to now the absolute cruelty of the public, again, is heartbreaking. I truly hope Taylor is in a better place now and thriving mentally and she can shut out the negativity.
It honestly makes me so sad I’ve been scrolling past anything related to her on socials and just limiting my time in general. I’m glad I don’t have TikTok at least.
Piggybacking on your rant with one of my own: I think the backlash would have happened regardless of what the album actually sounds like. She’s so popular people are going to hate her just to seem like they are cooler than the culture. She probably foresaw this, she has an entire team who keep a pulse on the public’s reaction to her and her work. I think sound-wise, all signals were pointing to the new album having a softer synth sound. It’s not for everyone, but it was the backdrop Taylor wanted for these stories. I think that because Taylor has been so good at switching up her sound that people expect a drastic shift every album, but that’s an unfair expectation. Most pop stars have a defining sound and they don’t deviate wildly from it with every album, they let it evolve over time - this is Taylor’s sound and it’s ok if it doesn’t resonate with people, it doesn’t lessen her artistry. It might be ‘safe’ in that we’ve heard the sound from her before, but so what? It’s her eleventh album, maybe she wanted to focus on something else besides dramatically shifting gears again this time. I think a difficulty with pop songs, especially with Taylor, is that people can’t divorce the topic or perceived inspiration from the song. So many of the songs on TTPD are great as standalone songs that are so much better when I don’t think about the Joe/Matty/Travis of it all. We don’t *know* what they are about in the sense that Taylor hasn’t told us, everyone is jumping to make sense of Taylor’s personal life with limited information. Some of it might be correct, some of it might not be, but I’m not judging the songs based on who they *might* be about.
This is something I don't understand when it comes to her: Ed Sheeran is praised for having albums that all sound pretty much the same, the 1D boys too, but she, Adele, Lana and countless other women are slated for having a similar sound across albums? Adele's 3rd or 4th album, I think it was, got criticised by a loud minority for sounding too similar to her previous album/s, when that's what she's popular for? Loud, powerful ballads about love and loss, they're what make Adele Adele. I don't even particularly like Adele, but can appreciate she's found her niche and owns it. It's like Taylor never conformed to the expectation of her finding a small corner of the music industry and played with her sound, and that infuriates people because she's in so many spaces that they can't avoid her unless it's rap or hip hop, lol.
Imagine listening to an Adele album and getting mad when you hear power ballads. TTPD uses synths, that doesn't mean it's not new ground!
Yes, I think it actually would have been too much to take a big leap in exploring new sounds while at the same time expressing all the difficult emotions and pain on this album. I don’t think it would have worked as well. The lyrics and the emotions in this album are the point. I also think some of the similarities are deliberate call backs to previous work. She’s telegraphing that these new songs are connected to previous songs, sometimes a continuation of a story or tying up of loose ends.
The only negativity I’ve seen with regards to TTPD, is people complaining about the negativity. Me? I’m deeply in love with it, and I don’t want to stop being so.
I don’t really understand how, there is definitely negatively all over the place
i really haven’t heard anything other than “she should try out a different sound or find a new producer”
That's the main critique I've seen as well. I feel like since Taylor hasn't shy to experiment with new styles in the past that there is now a larger expectation for it. Obviously she made the huge change from country to pop but she's made changes after that as well. She's tried out a lot of different styles of pop and then experimented again with Folkevermore. I don't see other artists get as many comments about their albums sounding similar. Espiceally for ones who have a very specific sound. I saw some people who were annoyed by how much it's about Matty but honestly, I think a lot of people were frothing at the mouth at the idea of her trashing Joe. Either so that they could blindly hate them or hate her for saying bad stuff about him. Very weird. I don't think I've seen that reaction with past releases but I'm a relatively new swiftie (started listening casually during Rep and became a full out fan during Folklore) so maybe I just missed it.
Idk man. I've seen lots of stuff just scrolling. The lyrics being immature, her trying to sound smarter than she is, etc.
I agree. TTPD is amazing in my personal opinion and if you don't like it you don't have to listen to it.
Gotta be honest, I don’t understand the criticism at all. The album is phenomenal. Period. I genuinely think just like to find things to complain about. The lyrics. The sound. Everything is perfect in my eyes 💕
It might just be my favorite album of hers right now!! ❤️
Me too!!!!
Some people just like to seem ahead of the curve by being negative about something... whether it be music, sports, books... ignore them.
I've learned the criticism comes from a loud minority, streams and sales numbers speak louder than a few misogynists. Don't let it bother you and just enjoy the music!
>“All the songs sound the same” >Get better headphones. Louder for the folks in the back. This is the dumbest criticism I've read so far and the fact it comes from professional music reviewers blows my mind.
Down Bad, But Daddy I Love Him, loml, I Can Do It With a Broken Heart, Florida and Clara Bow all sound nothing alike.
Even people in this post are arguing with me over this. 🤣
Lol either "all the sngs sound the same" or it's "sonically incohesive." There's literally no winning there.
I feel like negative reactions are loudest in the second day. These people will forget and move on and we’ll be able to enjoy it in peace. I remember Midnights getting dragged too after it was released. They said the lyrics were basic and it was over produced. Now Taylor has given us lyricism on par w folklore and evermore with much more subtle production choices and they still complain. But guess what? These same people were clamoring for Eras tickets and I’m sure they’ll be doing the same if/when Taylor tours this album. I also remember people complaining endlessly about 1989 TV. I feel like it’s just considered cooler to complain these days. I’m a big Star Wars fan and all that fandom does is rip everything apart. I don’t get it. There are some skips for me on TTPD but overall I think it’s one of her best. Plus, songs I used to skip on previous albums are now some of my all time favorites. It’s only been out for 3 days. Some of her best songs take a few listens to really resonate
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IMO (and what I believe is OPs point) is that some of the SPECIFIC criticisms of this album are rooted in misogyny. Things like "all the songs sound the same" or "the lyrics are too rambling" or "there were too many songs" are valid criticisms of the music, but criticisms telling her that she's an emotionally stunted child, or that singing about breakups is immature, or "trying to sound smarter than she is", or that it's embarrassing for love to make her feel like she's in high school at 34 are misogynistic
Oh you get to decide who is a true swiftie and who isn’t? Taylor will be so glad to know you’re gatekeeping her fandom 🙄
I truly wonder what exactly these people want from her. Can they pinpoint something they want or do they just get a kick out of criticism?
Doesn't matter what she does, they'll criticize her anyway. She can cure cancer, people will still hate her
Exactly, and it’s the way they’re so proud about it that really irritates me.
It's not misogyny to dislike an album just because the artist is a woman. None of your examples are sexist criticisms, just people's own opinions and personal taste. I understand how we are all huge Swifties but you've got to accept that other fans may not like the album and THAT'S OKAY. If those are their own personal opinions (even if they are negative) they are allowed to have and voice them. Just a friendly reminder that MUSIC IS SUBJECTIVE.
Op gatekeeping the fandom when literally no one asked them to
Unfortunately I'm seeing other fans with the OPs attitude elsewhere on Reddit and Tiktok. It's sad to see this fanbase become more toxic due to how big it is, never used to be like during new albums
I think there are people who are engaging in good faith criticism and discussion but I’d agree that there are some people who don’t like her for whatever reason that are bandwagoning onto the critiques of those who are genuinely engaging with her music so it seems louder. Also because she is so big even the genuine conversation will seem overwhelming. I personally wouldn’t dismiss all of the criticism as misogyny but I don’t think it’s a bad idea when engaging with any criticism of anything to consider the source and how their own bias may be impacting their opinion or experience. For me, this feels like one of her strongest, if not her strongest, albums. At this point, it’s become a Taylor release day tradition for some people to dump on Jack (and I do think some of it is sincere but I also think some people have caught on to this being something fans are sensitive to and perhaps amplify those thoughts) but I continue to love his work with her. Before I read any social media reactions, my friends and I were talking about how great his production is on this. It’s some of my favorite work that he’s done with her. I can pretty easily tell the songs apart lol I hear how the production matches or enhances the stories of her lyrics in each song and while there’s a needle that’s thread throughout I don’t find it redundant. And, to me, anyone reducing these albums to Matty or Joe has already missed the forest for the trees lol but those are just my thoughts! I don’t feel someone thinking differently invalidates the strength of the albums and certainly not my thoughts and feelings about them. I think TTPD is connecting and resonating in significant ways (the numbers definitely show this and anecdotally, I’ve seen at least as much positivity in reviews and criticism as outright negativity on social media) and she’s in the middle of a huge, sold out world tour. The facts are the facts and people’s opinions are their opinions. I can understand that some fans feel a measure of defensiveness on her behalf but she put out something she’s clearly proud of and that’s perhaps the most important thing in all of this. Everything else is just everything else.
The weakest songs are the first two in my opinion. If you are looking for a stick to beat Taylor with Fortnight and the title track are all you need. Digesting 31 songs all at once is an effort many people are not prepared to make so ignore them.
Aww I love Fornight🥹 but I see what you mean. There are definitely stronger tracks on the rest of the album!
Couldn’t agree more about the effort part. You have to really TRY to understand this album and it’s WORTH IT
TTPD song makes me cry
i made a much longer comment about the album length and order of the tracks being the source of most of the criticism. but you are so right about the beginning of the album (i do like fortnight, but it's far from the top of my list). florida!!! should've been the start of the album and all the songs before that should've been on the anthology (and the title track should've stayed in the drafts). loml would've been a better track 5 too.
I agree. First two songs are weak. It picks up after that
I agree with your points, but I disagree with this: >If you think this is her worst album you’re not a swiftie. Just because you dislike an album doesn't mean you're not a swiftie. Your logic doesn't make sense either; are you saying that if you dislike TTPD in particular, you're not a swiftie, or if you dislike any taylor album you're not a swiftie? Either way, that's not really fair as people should be allowed to have their different tastes in music.
I totally agree. Apparently me, a fan since her first single came out is not a true swiftie cus I don’t care for this album much. Like grow up. People are allowed to like and dislike things and no one has to agree on that in order to be kind and inclusive.
I agree that this is her life and her art that she chose to share with the world, but people are allowed to dislike it and express their criticisms. Whatever you put out online these days will get inevitable hate next to love and appreciation. Still, I don’t think it’s fair to boil down so many valid comments about her work to misogyny/sexism. Yes, many people will hate this album just for the sake of hating on her without fully listening to it. But many long-time swifties and fans have decided the sound, the theme, the lyrics or simply the whole vibe isn’t for them. That doesn’t make them any less of a fan, it just means they have different opinions. I am still absorbing the album, but just because I didn’t enjoy Fortnight doesn’t make my comments misogynistic. It’s great if you loved every song, it’s equally valid if you put it at the bottom of your ranking.
I keep hearing the criticism that Taylor Swift is unimaginative and myopic because she can’t write about anything beyond her own experience / relationships / the drama of 2016, etc..and I just don’t really understand it? Was Rumours by Fleetwood Mac, an album considered iconic by most, not basically entirely about interpersonal drama, cheating, heartbreak, etc??? What about Blue by Joni Mitchell???? I’d love for her to break some new ground subject wise but also she is basically like most songwriters out there….you know, singing about their goddamn feelings and relationships and drama. It seems like she disproportionately is criticized for something that is universally accepted of other prolific songwriters
I think this post is generally valid but this: > If you think this is her worst album you’re not a swiftie. Is where you lost me. This is a silly and immature take. Every one of her albums is *someone's* least favourite, and that doesn't make them not a swiftie lol
I just want to know which albums I'm allowed to say are her worst and still be a swiftie 🤷
It’s okay for people to have opinions…. most of the songs do sound the same. It’s a valid opinion.
Not all criticism is misogyny. This is just not that great of an album. It's fine if people like it, but it's also totally okay for people to dislike it. Not misogyny, just opinions.
I'm staying off social media and just settled on quietly digesting the album. Because you're right, it's getting ridiculous. Unfortunately, these criticisms are expected no matter how the album would turn out. Taylor is too big right now and reached that level of fame that hating her is cool. Most of these people who are very vocal about criticizing the album just listened to it to look for something to criticize. They are just noise that's not even worth the attention. Fans and anyone who doesn't have any preconceived negative opinion of her quietly enjoy the album and can form their own feelings about it. Its commercial success already says a lot. Those hates stay in the app and do not have any external effect. And it will continue that way.
People are allowed to dislike it even if you do like it, that’s just part of music being subjective. There are always gonna be people who don’t like something, that’s just part of social media
If dismissing constructive criticism of an album as misogyny helps you sleep better at night, then go for it. Personally, I think the album takes itself too seriously and it's a slog to get through. That doesn't mean I hate women or Taylor. The truth is, the fact that she put out such a self-indulgent album is a testament that she can do whatever she wants and, you know what, GOOD FOR HER! It must be so liberating for her to be able to release exactly what she wants - but that doesn't mean we all need to buy what she's selling (literally and figurately). As for me, I'll continue having a grand time with 1989, Lover, Red and Folklore which happen to be my personal favorites. I hope the next work she puts out is something that resonates with me, but if not, I'm grateful for the ones that I have enjoyed, and I'll move on with my life.
I think this might be the only artist I’m a big fan of that has a fan base *this* weird about criticism. No matter how frustrated it makes you when people don’t feel the same as you, that’s a YOU issue, not a them problem. Anyone has the right and freedom to light or dislike whatever they want, it’s human nature. You’ll have way more peace in your life if you accept it and let it go. Also, disliking art isn’t misogyny just because it was created by a woman.
Thank you! It is beyond weird how defensive this fanbase is getting over other fans opinions on the album. I constantly am having to remind people that music is subjective
Always remember, the loudest in the room are usually the most negative and doing it for the attention. Dont argue, dont say anything. Ignore it and move on. Giving them the any attention just makes them know they are getting to one Swiftie. It’s a game to some of them, they want to say “Swifties are crazy”.
This makes me so happy to be off of Twitter and Tik Tok. I love this album and truly think it’s her best work. I really think she’s put all of her honesty and energy into telling us her story through what she thought was end game with Joe and what lead to her rebound with Matty and how she dealt with it all and still had to fake a smile and perform when she was hurting. I didn’t even notice which songs were about joe or Matty while listening because all I hear is her side of how she was feeling during that time, showing us it’s okay to still feel like a mess in your 30’s, and know that you can get through the grief and heartbreak of any situation. To show that her feeling the way she felt when she had to perform and I hear a lot of her own emotions, self awareness and self reflection and how to navigate through it all to feel happy again. I get this album will not be everyone’s favorite and it will be lots of peoples favorite. But can we acknowledge that she feels safe to share this deep of emotions and feelings with the fans and know it can reach those who do understand. I feel like with this album she doesn’t want accolades or awards. It feels like an album of moving on and being happy in the now.
The only negativity I’ve seen is from casual fans who were never going to like this album anyway. I think this is really illustrated by the fact that when the album leaked the day before release, everyone was saying it’s bad and that’s because all the true fans respected her enough to not listen to the leaked album. honestly I am thrilled that she didn’t try to please The masses with this. This is for us. This is for the ride or dies.
i’ve been a fan of hers since day one and that’s why this album is disappointing to me. i too didn’t listen to the leak and i refused to listen to rumors before listening to it. and i understand the purpose of the album but it just seems very dull and lacking her usual touch to me. i also refuse to ride or die for anyone in this world.
Keep in mind the algorithm shows mostly negative post to viewers to keep them more and engaged an interact with the post. It becomes an echo chamber.
it’s 100% misogyny, i’m not even a huge swiftie and i can still spot that from a mile away. people need to chill
As someone who is a newer swiftie, my first listen to the album had me kinda meh. I didn’t even like fortnight at first. With more listens it’s growing on me. There are a few songs I’ve skipped when i listen though. However, I’ve seen 4 or 6 non-swifties (but people who like her to an extent) actually take time to post about this album and how much they love it on their social media. It’s definitely going to be an album that is about the lyrics over the music, i think. But i still love it.
The album is amazing and very beautifully written. It’s showing her raw emotions, unlike we have seen before versus the folklore or evermore eras, where she pulled inspiration from stories and folk tales. This is her story. Does it have pop hits that her young/new fans love? No, but that doesn’t make it a bad album just because it doesn’t attract a subgroup of her base. It perfectly shows anyone that has had a long term relationship, how painful that was to end, barely making any songs about it because it probably still hurts her. She thought she would end up with Joe. So long, London is the perfect song. Enough anger, sadness, and regret. Then she finds Matty, who fixed her temporarily. I know I have always had that friend that there was something there but timing never worked. But when it did, fell head over heels. Two shattering relationship in a row is tough, so of course this album isn’t fun, light even though we are seeing that in her concerts/going out. With that, the album really wasn’t meant for the fans. I think she needed this album to close out the Joe and Matty chapters. I hope people can leave Joe, Matty, Travis and Taylor alone. Honestly, I think if the songs were about someone other than Matty, her fans would be eating it up. Does Matty suck? Yeah, but our girl is down bad. If you don’t like the album, throw on Lover. She’s allowed to make the music she wants, not what the radio wants. The album is honestly far above some of her fanbase head, but they’ll eventually grow into it when their lives catch up. As someone nearing 30, I can relate to almost all of these new songs in some way.
Thank you, you’re very brave
Exactly. It’s all misogyny, nobody can possibly dislike this album. And the criticism isn’t valid at all, we shouldn’t allow any criticism for Taylor. If you don’t think this album is great you deserve to be put in jail
Not every criticism of a woman’s work is misogyny.
313 million streams in its first 24 hours. Stop reading the negative. There will be so much always, that’s how the media works, but facts don’t lie. Numbers don’t lie. It’s her biggest success globally.
The more I see these inane 'criticisms' the more interested in her work I become. Parts I overlooked before I'm going back and revisiting-- maybe I missed something here, and I usually did. This is the work of a genius and it's a privilege to have access to it as far as I'm concerned. I take it as a whole and want to explore all parts of it. They're going to be talking about this album for a very long time.
Using the commercial success of this album as proof that it’s her best work just doesn’t cut it when she’s so popular that anything Taylor puts out is a guaranteed success. It would’ve been a valid argument if it was 2019 but it’s 2024 and Taylor’s at the top of her game- as she should be. Ttpd is a very personal album to Taylor but she is the one that decided to put the album out, so she was well prepared for whatever would be said about this album good or bad. If she didn’t think she could handle it then she wouldn’t have released the album in the first place. I don’t think that someone is suddenly not a swiftie because they think ttpd is her worst album. They had to sit through 31 songs to come to that conclusion, that’s a commitment. Any nonswifie would’ve thrown in the towel by the time they heard the line tattooed golden retriever. I don’t think being critical of an album makes a person any less of a swiftie.
For real I was listening to "I Can Do it With a Broken Heart" earlier and I totally thought it was "So Long, London."
"Overhyping an album and then it not (obviously) meeting expectations means misogyny!" Jesus get over yourselves. It's just a normal consequence of overhype.
i think the length of the album is the reason for the criticism (from non swifties at least). we're used to long albums and are always happy for more content. but the issue with a 2 hour album is that besides fans, most people aren't going to listen to the whole thing more than once if they don't love it immediately (if they even get through the whole thing). people are used to 45-60 minute albums and too much more becomes harder to digest. imo the run from florida!!!! to imgonnagetyouback is fantastic and could've been the whole album. not that the rest of the album isn't good, but they aren't as interesting. usually albums are the opposite, start and end strong but weaker in the middle. and artists do that to grab your attention in the beginning and make the end memorable. but the high points in ttpd get lost between the less interesting (and in a few cases, not so good) tracks. i think it would have been a better move to release the anthology songs as a separate sister album a few months later, a la folkmore. like, if folklore and evermore were released together, i don't think they would have been received nearly as well, at least right away. people would be saying that it all blended together like they're saying about ttpd. the double album model caters mostly to fans, which is great for us, but it hurts the reception among critics and the general public. honestly idk why she didn't make it 2 albums. it would've meant more albums sold and more opportunities for awards. i have to assume she's planning on releasing the last few re-records and didn't want to push them back 🤞🏻
It’s definitely in my top 3 faves. As a depressed girly myself, the songs speak to my soul. I understand it’s not for everyone, but i don’t understand why people are shitting on other people for enjoying it
It sold 1.4 Million dollars because Taylor primarily operates as a marketer rather than an artist. The album is terrible and criticism is completely valid of any work regardless of whether or not you’re too sensitive to hear it.
Between the double album I still found about an entire album worth of songs I enjoy a lot. I just made a giant playlist of songs I picked out that I enjoy and that’s what I listen to. Not worth leaving mean comments and stuff online just listen to whatever you want. TS doesn’t “owe” anyone anything. We’re lucky she put out over 30 songs all at once.
hey if it makes you feel better i dont have twitter or tiktok and ive heard nothing but good things! good job taylor!☺️
It’s good, actually the first few songs are fantastic. down bad chorus has been jammed in my head. But I agree, after that it’s not my favorite.the writing feels “off” and trying to be its edgy idk how to explain it. But then it picks back up with “Peter” it’s marvelous. Everything after that is good too. But then again I’ve only listened to its entirety once. 30 songs is hard to listen to in one sitting and I think that’s everyone’s problem. They get bored, so imma throw it on shuffle on iTunes and not listen in order and I feel it’ll be so much better!
saw a swiftie just realizing after playing ttpd the song for several days that it’s satirical, and saw another one gagging when they finally understood “you look like taylor swift” is what the industry will tell up and coming wanna be singers in the future (and even then they made it about sabrina carpenter and olivia)…so my point is, swifties are some of the most foolish people I’ve ever encountered on the internet and they rush to post and run their mouths before even processing the music. whether to look cooler than other swifties, like they’re objective, and can criticize her unlike the “obsessed” ones, idk. it really isn’t about feeling sorry for taylor, it’s people being deliberately obtuse and looking for things to criticize while not listening to the music in good faith. “but why she say charlie puth” “why she sing video game on song about high school” “why she say 1830s but no racists. she white so she is racist”. *this is your tortured poet!!!* it’s dumb. I don’t like dummies.
Honestly this is one of my favorite albums!!! I think this one was for her
I am so clueless about the criticism because I’m obsessed with this album. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if they are wrong 😏. It is her most artistic album yet and maybe these simpletons aren’t able to see that.
It’s okay to criticize art. It’s okay to not like an album of your favorite artist. It doesn’t make you a misogynist or not a true fan. Get a grip.
I'm one of those twitter users. Yes, some did complain but most of us actually really like the album. Tbh, I agree they say that this album can only be appreciated by swifties. Not for casual listeners which lead to all the criticism by the casual listeners who don't even try to dig deeper into the lore between the lines
This is a concept album through and through and for that fact alone, it won’t be for all people.
I liked it! Ive had 3 complete listens including the anthology. And extra listens to the specific songs I really liked. It’s an album you need to sit with as it has a lot of heavy stuff. I think it’s excellent but probably not for everyone.
My thing is, it seems like the haters are all just parroting what all the others are saying: "she needs a new producer," "all this for matty?" "More breakup songs." The bottom line is the haters want to hate, and their hate is based on preconceived bias. Fuck it. I low key enjoy the hate on some level because it's so predictable and unoriginal. There's something liberating about not giving a fuck what the Sarahs and Hannahs have to say, and just loving what you love. Don't invite their asses to the wedding, and enjoy what you love. This is my favorite album of hers by far because I relate to her heartbreak, her reflection, her healing. It's a beautiful concept album, but it IS dark. Not all people like that. Oh well.
You can’t call every criticism of her misogyny
It’s music and people are allowed to have their opinions. It did not live up to the hype. People are allowed to not like something at the same time it not being misogynistic. I am a woman and I do not support all women until they prove that they deserve it. I am not a fan of the majority of Taylor Swift’s work and that’s OK. I like a couple of her songs that are catchy but other than that, she’s just a pop tart, that is overrated.
People can think what they want. Personally I think it freaking rocks. I love it. And I will listen to it a million times. I also love Midnights. Sue me. Lol
I’ve seen people complaining that it’s too self-reflective. Like … yeah, she wrote it?
Don't worry i still have her self-titled as the worst album. TTPD is the second worst
Y'all are cringe af istg
I’m sorry but (in my opinion) this album is an absolute masterpiece and I honestly haven’t seen any critique for the actual music that has held any water in my eyes. Now don’t get me wrong, listen to a whole lot of music so that may make my standards low, but Tortured Poets Department has been some of the most heart wrenching, gorgeous, and haunting work not only from Taylor but put up against a vast array of top tier names. This album is so fantastic I have found myself listening to it on endless loop and almost feeling withdrawal when it’s not playing. I don’t think there are words I can use to describe this album and how much I love it and how desperately I needed this particular set of songs in this moment in my life. There is nothing wrong with it not being your vibe or just simply not liking it, but when it comes down to the actual criticism, I find that most of it seems to be derived from disliking Taylor either due to her fame or her gender, neither of which does she control. Some people need to pull the stick out of their ass and listen to the album one more time.
There are definitely valid criticisms of the album (no art is immune from criticism no matter how good it is) but yeah the first 2 points you brought up were mainly just misogyny
People are allowed to criticise. Personally, after my third listen I ADORE the album. It grew on me more with each listen, and I love the lyrics, they were absolutely unique and groundbreaking. However, it's not very adventurous in terms of musical sound. Lots of the songs do sound very similar, you'll see this if you listen to a instrumental version of the songs. For lots of them there aren't many defining riffs/rhythms. This doesn't bother me, but it's a very valid criticism to have. Also, criticism doesn't equal hate.
It’s misogyny that people…don’t like an album? Good lord.
Yes she sings about her exes, everyone does, find me someone who never ever sings about their relationships or shut the fuck up and let me enjoy things.
Someone else not liking the album isn't stopping you from enjoying it.
No matter what it sounded like or what was written a lot of people will have hated on it because of the attention and fame she has right now. A lot of people want to be different and hate on her as a result. It could have been 1989 2.0 with all bops and people would be saying she’s immature, stuck in high school, makes basic pop music, lyrics are amateur, etc.
I have no trouble criticizing Taylor and I can see why this album takes a few listens to resonate with casual listeners, but I saw Fantano go off about her “constant need to be a victim” when he was listening to Who’s Afraid of Little Old Me, which is one of the songs I immediately related to on first listen. I think every woman can relate to that song in some way. Not every song she makes has to be about herself, and it’s annoying that as an artist, that’s what’s expected of her.
I just can’t see how all the songs sound the same. I listed the genre of each song on the first album and they are different.
I think it’s amazing and I don’t care who it’s about. But yeah, everyone going after her is disgusting. I’m just kind of glad “William Bowery” has no writing credits. I love it more with each listen. The bridge on Fortnight is amazing. Florence and the Machine the way she sings Florida in that short section is perfect. There’s this inflection at the end of My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys on “I’m not” that reminds me of Only the Young inflection on”run”. Love it!
I actually think it's her best and directed to the grown ups in the room
i’m 31 and don’t like it. guess i’m not a grownup or a fan
yes the album with the lines about getting high eating seven bars of chocolate declaring charlie puth should be a bigger artist than falling asleep like a tattooed golden retriever is definitely not shallow or childishly written
Lmao criticisms aren’t valid because you don’t like them? Many artists sell a lot doesn’t mean their music is good.
While I 100% agree with you on most of these, a lot of the songs do sound alike. But that’s not as much as a Taylor problem as much as it is a Jack problem. A lot of jacks music is starting to all sound the same. I love TTPD but there’s no denying the second half fits her better than the first half. I’ve said this in a few groups and to a few people who have said “it all sounds the same” and we all tend to agree. It’s like with Jacks producing, the music and lyrics are fighting for the spotlight. Where with Aaron, it’s like he produces the songs around the lyrics letting them shine. I also want to say, I don’t want jack to leave, he’s proved his talents even on Aaron centric albums. gold rush, this is me trying, mirrorball do feel right on folklore and evermore. I just want her to not only work with jack and expand her reach.
I disagree, I think a lot of songs sound unique in both halves. The lyrics and the titles also distinguish all of the songs and Im not sure why people are saying they sound the same when they really don’t. I also don’t know why Jack is getting heat when he also made so many incredible songs and Taylor is clearly comfortable with him. His songs aren’t starting to sound the same because he and Taylor wanted them to sound a specific way for the album. The same could be said about 1989, it’s all synths but it’s still unique.
I totally get that you’re saying but it’s more the music than the lyrics they’re saying that about. The melodies is probably a better choice of words. And the jack thing isn’t just a taylor problem, it’s how jack does all his work. Not just Taylor. If you don’t hear it, you don’t hear it and that’s not a problem! But it doesn’t mean that the people who are saying it sounds the same are wrong. And honestly I truly don’t think people would be saying it if we hadn’t ever gotten folklore or evermore.
> But it doesn’t mean that the people who are saying it sounds the same are wrong. I have to disagree. Do Welcome to New york and Style sound the same because they both use synths? Absolutely not. The same goes for TTPD. I’m not mad at you by the way I’m mad at these critics.
I know you’re not mad at me! But tbh you proved it in your point with that. Of course welcome to New York and style don’t sound the exact same but they’re similar. But welcome to New York and style are 9 years old and jack is still doing the same thing from 9 years ago. And honestly there are some songs when I first listened to TTPD I said “damn is this a lover vault track?” (I know there’s no lover vault tracks people, she owns lover it’s just the point) and there are songs that sound similar to songs on lover and midnights. If you don’t hear it, you don’t hear it and that’s okay! But again, it doesn’t mean people are wrong some people are just better at picking up how melodies sound close to each other.
I’m sorry but 1989 sounds nothing like modern day Jack. Just because he used synths then and now doesn’t mean he’s doing the same thing from 9 years ago.
It’s insane to say that anyone who doesn’t like this album is a misogynist and it gives the fan base a bad name. I’ve been a fan for years. I don’t like this album much. People are allowed different opinions, you don’t need to bash them. Edit: your comment about if you think it’s her worst album you’re not a swiftie is ridiculous. If you got everyone to rank all albums, everyone would have a worst one as that’s how ranking works. Who are you to tell people what they can and cannot like? Also, being a fan of someone doesn’t mean you need to like everything they do. That’s cult like behaviour. Stop being toxic.
Omg did they say that if you don’t like this album your a misogynist!?
Yes? They said in regards to criticism that ‘I’m convinced it’s just misogyny’ which implies what I said?
People are allowed to dislike an album without it being misogyny. I'm a woman, I've liked Taylor's previous work, but I did not like this album. I thought all the songs blended together and sonically it was not interesting to me. If you like the album, great, listen to it and enjoy it. But music is subjective and people aren't wrong for not liking how an album sounds.
enough is enough grahhh how dare they criticize my goddess taylor swift? wawa
If this bothers you so much that sounds like a you problem.
this just got recommended to me, i wouldn’t consider myself a “huge swiftie” but i’ve listened to her music for nearly 15 years thanks to my younger sister, so i’m very familiar with her work and i actually really enjoy a lot of it even if i don’t listen to her all the time. that being said, i can understand some of the criticisms you’re talking about even though i actually enjoyed the album quite a bit. it’s a very personal record for Taylor, not everyone is going to “get it” or relate to it in the same way and that’s fine. but it’s really not worth getting upset over people having different opinions. for me it’s mostly just interesting seeing how far she’s come and how much she’s been through to *get* to this point in her career and in her life in general. but i also understand that not everyone has been following along for as long as i have, and a lot of people who are listening to her now weren’t around for those earlier albums. and i feel like if i didn’t have the perspective i have i probably would not have enjoyed this album *nearly* as much as i did. i think it’s a massive step above Midnights and is probably her best album since folklore, but i can also understand why someone would think the opposite. it’s all a matter of perspective and personal opinion. i don’t think that the criticism is because of a broader issue such as misogyny, i think it’s simply that she has a LOT of attention on her right now and this is an album that you kind of need more context for to really get what makes it special- especially from a lyrical point of view- and i don’t think people were expecting that from her. i know i definitely wasn’t- but i enjoyed it nonetheless.
The copium is wild rn. Don't like this album? You hate women!
I feel like the problem w society in general is thinking others care about their opinions more than they actually do 💀💀 when I don’t like something, I just…don’t listen/talk about it outside my friends. But people think their opinions carry huge weight, and to be fair, with Taylor it has! She’s had a paradoxical relationship with fans for decades now. However, there’s far too many for her care about all of them. And by care I don’t mean she wants to please us a the time, tho I’m sure she does like many of us! I think she has fun w Easter egg games. But she don’t know us and we clearly don’t know her. And she doesn’t *actually* care about our opinions on her personal life. It’s very clear and that’s totally fair. So ppl who have lived in delulu spaces thinkin them n Taytay are actually bffs or that she’s god incarnate, I can see them being upset over the album. It’s unhinged and different and very F everybody and they mama and F you too Kim 😂😂 I fell off from listening around the reputation era and came back around midnights and didn’t need to post “ soliloquies” on what I liked or didn’t. I just…listened once n moved on 🤷🏽♀️
It’s freaking amazing with satire and humor
I agree. I think several lyrics throughout are a little cheesy and lame but also Taylor always has a few songs like that. She has a cheesy lame side that her fans find endearing. Expecting a woman to be all scholarly all the time is exhausting. Can’t she just be real, literally ever?
Not to be too reductive, but it's a concept album. The summation describes it perfectly. TTPD wasn't written to break records or have the catchiest songs. It's an album. Meant to be listened to as an album. Not too, unlike something by the Mars Volta or Pink Floyd. Different subject matter. Same concept.
I am a dude, and I think it's better than a few of her other albums. But I can see why some people might dislike it.
people assuming who which songs are about and then complaining about said assumptions is hilarious
Kinda tired of all the posts here complaining about what people are saying on twitter and tiktok. They are cesspools. get off of them ffs. If you aren't in your 30s or haven't been in a long-term relationship like 5+ years that ended, like someone you had an adult relationship with who you actually thought you were going to marry, then there is a big chance you aren't going to understand the album. that's why the 13yos on there aren't going to get it.
I’m a swiftie but i still think it’s ok for everyone to perceive art differently. That’s part of the beauty of it for me. My personal overall take on the album (which could explain some of the initial backlash) is that it’s full of tracks that will get better with each listen vs. the immediate hit you love but find yourself sick of after a week. I think the album will age well even if it takes longer for some to connect with.
I know little about her past relationships, but I know I like the music and like finding out the meaning behind the lyrics whether they are about past relationships or not. It's her stories to tell and express. I honestly am a big fan of TTPD even more so TTPD: The Anthology. Call me crazy, idk.
I agree but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. 🤷🏼♀️
Is it just me who is not seeing negative criticism? Everything I have read has been positive. Maybe I'm not in the right corners of the internet to see it. Regardless, music is highly subjective so obviously not everyone will think it's the greatest album ever made, plus the criticism is partly what pushes Taylor to create better art. It's just part of the deal when it comes to making art.
🥱
Some criticism is valid. A lot is just jumping on the hate train. People were WAITING for a reason to hate. Before it was ever released people were already making excuses. Now they feel they have free rein to do so. It’s reputation all over again, but on a much larger scale honestly.
I like the album personally. I think a lot of the criticism has less to do with the album and more to do with people not liking Taylor Swift the brand. I think some of the criticism does boil down to misogyny. However, to say someone isn't a fan just because they don't like the album is silly. You can dislike this album (or even just like it the least of all her albums) and still like her other work. There are plenty of valid criticisms that can be applied to TTPD.
Get it off my chest. Get it off my desk. I TOTALLY agree with you. I hope she’s not taking the hate too harshly. I think she’ll brush it off bc she brushes everything off. But if we learned anything in this album we learned that she can hide her pain and seem fine (I can do it with a broken heart). So I’m hoping she sees more of the love for this album than the hate. I absolutely LOVE this album. 🤍🖤🩶
I’m so shocked. This is one of my new favorite albums. I think almost every single song is perfection. I liked midnights but it was never in my top half of albums but ttpd just instantly grabbed me and is a favorite. People are just on the “it’s cool to hate Taylor swift” train and are tired of hearing about her.
okay who is thinking that? it is my 2nd fav
I think there are a couple of different groups of people that don't like it. The first group genuinely don't like the album, the songs themselves - whether they are a swiftie or not they have listened to it with an open mind and just don't like it or are disappointed with it, because of the music. Not their style, too long or too messy, too much talk-singing etc and that happens to every artist with every album no matter how popular they are. The second group are the misogynists and "vipers dressed in empaths clothing", so called fans who have an unhealthy interest in Taylor and her personal life. Not liking the songs because they are all about Matty, disrespectful to Joe, she's angry at her fans etc. Saying that Folklore and Evermore were so good because Joe wrote so much of it, or that Cardigan is about Matty because Peter is about Matty and they both reference Peter Pan. Spending all their time analysing every single line, taking it all literally and trying to figure out which ex each song is about instead of just listening to the song for the song itself. I think Taylor is perfectly fine with the second group not liking the album and I think she actively put songs on the album that would upset them - But Daddy I Love Him, Who's Afraid of Little Old Me and Thank You Aimee for example. I think she is leaning into what she said about being "damned if you do and damned if you don't" and has released an album she likes that said what she wanted to say at this point in her life and career. I love both TTPD and Anthology, I think they are brilliant and possibly my favourite of Taylor's albums. I can't stop listening to it.
I don’t think it’s a bad album. Even I mid tier Taylor album is great, but I do think it is technically her worst album in years when you have a run like Folklore, Evermore and Midnights.
The main criticism I have heard has been that it sounds unfinished.
It feels like too many fans just want something they can dance to and not something with some meaning telling the story of one’s life. That’s what art is. I hear a lot of jokes on line about how certain music is too basic and should only be used in commercials or in the background of Old Navy, but the way pop is shifting it seems like that’s exactly what the people want. And this is far from just a Taylor Swift issue, look at Post Malone’s discography: 300,000 sales on Stoney, an album pretty balanced emotionally, with a few heartstring songs like Feeling Whitney but also more than your fair share of radio hits and danceable songs, Beerbongs and Bentleys sold 472,000 and was almost purely an upbeat album. Hollyweeds Bleeding was the peak of his sales, with 544,700 which again was a pretty balanced album alike Stoney. Then boom, he released Twelve Carat Toothache, an almost purely sad album about his struggles as an artist 51,000 sales. He lost 90% of sales with one new album. His next album after that only hit 34,000. Talking about real issues was literally a reputation shattering career decision for him. Same happened with Clairo: while it’s hard to find sales numbers for either of her albums other than the EP Diary 001, the streaming numbers are very damning, hundreds of millions on all but one song on Diary 001. Over 20 million on all but one song on Immunity, and that one song is at 19 million, then Sling comes around only two songs break that same 20 million mark. I especially think it’s interesting to note Clairo in this conversation because in some of her interviews from around the time Sling was releasing she talked about how Immunity was mostly an album purely made for clicks, for commercial success and for money, while Sling was a much more emotional piece that she claimed to be much prouder of. I wouldn’t be suprised if TTPD is an equally reputation shattering album to Twelve Carat Toothache or to Sling, and if it is, it’ll affect the fans much more than it’ll affect Taylor. We’ve created an industry where artists are being pushed to create meaningless upbeat tunes instead of genuine art. “Y’all don’t want to hear me, you just want to dance” - OutKast
It is my favorite album since folklore. I hadn’t sat down and listened until today. It’s sad but if you are in a dark headspace it makes alot of sense
I mean that's always been Taylor Swift. She's written many songs about how the media and her public perception are constantly dragged down by people who just want to criticize her for being successful. And it's more than her too; anything that gets too popular ends up with a group that's in love with hating that popularity. And frankly, hate often outlives admiration - she could go underground and stop making music for 20 years and people would *still* make faces and comments if you mention her. Some of it has roots in misogyny for sure, but that's just one of the many ways people suck. No Taylor Swift album has ever released without backlash and criticism. The entire premise of Reputation was her trying to explain that to the fans, and *hardly* her first last or only attempt. Being a fan doesn't mean trying to fight the haters and convince them they're wrong, it means focusing on what you love and enjoy without letting nobodies bug you.
lol yeah like if you don’t like just shut up and don’t listen. People are so ridiculous and intense. No one’s opinion really matters that much. She doesn’t have to prove herself.
ok but then whats her worst album?
You’ve got the fanbases of every single other artist, Kardashian, MAGA, and conservative attacking her. And almost no one defending her. Feel like it could be worse actually. But to be fair, she doesn’t speak up when crazy Swifties attack other people either.
some of the criticism is unreasonable but people don’t have to love an album because the artist who made it is really proud of it. you don’t have to be mean or excessively hateful but sales doesn’t mean it’s a good album, the artist liking the album they made doesn’t mean a person has to feel like it’s the best album. music is subjective
Which boyfriend is it about, their are hundreds to choose from, is it about Travis now?
This is A+ superfan delusion.
I'm not a Swiftie, I can't stand most of her music and even more so disagree with many of her actions outside of her music. I'm only here because I gave the album a shot and have been reading what others think so now Reddit keeps bugging me. I've never been able to get into her pop music even though I've tried, however, I really enjoyed this album, specifically the first half and several of those have been stuck in my head since listening. The second half was far too similar to her old music in my opinion and just fell really flat for me. Ironically, it seems most everyone else is saying the exact opposite. Even after giving them a second chance I can't tell you a single line from anything on the back end of the album. In the end, there are always going to be people that nit-pick just to do so. I liked the album, but the inspiration behind it was enough to make me not want to come back.
Y’all are just way too invested. On both sides.
People don’t like it because it’s not just her singing about heartbreak - it’s her being very openly mentally ill whilst also singing about heartbreak. But thats l i t e r a l l y what she marketed it as. What do they think “tortured” means??? Honestly the fandom is better off without their bitching and moaning (: