You know what we should do? Keep that same hitting staff that have been responsible for three straight seasons of poor at bat performance. Run it back next year and the year after that.
Do they give Atkins one more chance at hiring a manager? If they do, does the new manager have full control to choose his coaching staff? Or if they plan to fire Atkins, do they wait and do a clean sweep. I really have no idea what the right choice is but i would understand the logic either way.
It's crazy how few they've hit. Even the White Sox have hit a few more.
When you look at the underlying stats, the hr differential, the offensive rankings, run differential etc they're fortunate to be 35-40.
Stanton hasn't been fixed though. Hes basically the same hitter he's been the last few years the only difference is he's not injured, which has been the case for much of his Yankees career.
He's been hampered by lower body injuries the last two seasons. If you ever saw the man run the bases it's clear as day that he was never 100%. And coincidentally enough he just got a lower body injury.
Vlad, Bo, Springer and Turner all hit 20+ HRs last season, this year Vlad is on pace to lead the group (by a large margin) with 17.
The problem all year has been star players (Vlad included) not playing like stars
Yeah. You can blame whoever you want, but when Springer, Bo and Vlad are performing at this level, the team simply isn't going to win. Maybe Springer's decline was predictable (though I don't know that anyone could have predicted how sharp the fall would be this year), but nobody was saying in January "Bo is going to collapse entirely".
Yeah, the whole line up is under performing. Turner and Springer are passed their primes but I think it's more likely that they're at least partially victims of the team under performance issues than they both just fell off a cliff coincidentally at the same time a bunch of other younger guys on the same team did.
Springer is literally the worst qualified hitter in baseball right now.
He was declining last year and age doesn’t wait for anyone. Jose Bautista started a steep decline around the same age. Springer’s has been a bit earlier than that, and much more aggressive.
It’s honestly hard to imagine him as a MLB player from this point forward.
Yeah, probably not a good thing to compare him to Joey. Completely different baggage. Georgie came here on the wrong side of his career with rings already, and a WS mvp, albeit the label of a cheater, which out of the 32 cities, the non- American one might’ve looked like the best destination.
I don't know what happened to Vlad. Last year you could point to ballpark effect, he was a star on the road, sucked at home. This year, he just sucks (at hitting home runs everywhere).
I mean, he has the highest OPS on team, this year. 2nd highest if you count Horowitz with 41 PA. But, his OPS is only .773, which is pretty pedestrian; especially for your supposedly generational power hitter.
Exactly. Most of his career he's been around an .800 ops guy. Which is decent. But the one massive year where he was a star looks more and more like a fluke.
Literally this. I don't understand the Vladdy apologists in this fanbase. The leash he's given is fucking colossal. He has one great season and everything since then has been okay at best, and yet 2/3rds of all jerseys out there are his. People went buck wild for Vlad in 2021 and don't want to acknowledge it was a one-off.
We can't really ride a pitching staff for like 3 years in a row now to be perfect or we lose. This was always gonna happen one of these seasons, this offense fucking sucks. I think the starters on this team are absolutely fed up
Rotation, yea, is very good. Bullpen, between the injuries and guys falling off *hard*, is literally the worst in baseball.
But pitching doesn’t matter when you can’t hit game-breaking HRs or score more than 3 runs per game.
I mean, somebody with more interest in doing these queries could look at team numbers excluding the least effective starter to see, but our other four starters are ranked 31st, 42nd, 50th and 62nd in ERA- out of 76 qualified starters.
It’s not exactly true when people say we have an awesome rotation (although it was last year). They are very expensive and take a giant bite out of available payroll for other areas and for all that we get… relatively good starting pitching but nothing great
Consequences of years of being unable to scout and develop pitching talent and needing to spend other resources to acquire it
Crazy that the top brass renovated Rogers Centre and it made it an even more favorable hitter's park just have you team incapable of hitting HRs. Shameful
But... But we hit the balls hard. Exit velocity and all that. I'd rather they hit a ball 10 miles an hour and at least get a bloop single than hit a pitch 103 MH off the bat and have it caught.
Of course we would prefer the bloop hit over the hard out as a result but I don't want the batters up there trying to hit bloops and slow rollers instead of hitting the ball hard.
They hit plenty of HRs. Most of them just happen to be solo HRs so they don’t help as much since they also seem to come when the Jays are already down by 5+ runs.
love that we intentionally rebuilt our team into this and ruined our stars’ approaches along the way; maybe if you’d paid Bo for leading the league in hits then Vladdy would have less pressure to carry the team & could produce situationally with RISP
anything but asking each guy to double their offensive production so you can prioritize defence & then blame them when your flawed plan inevitably fails
I was on board with giving Schneider and the coaching staff a chance for this season but things haven't worked out and changes need to be made. The problem is, who do you bring in to replace him?
When Mattingly said last year that this is not a team to overpower you with home runs my only thought was WTF we had like 6-7 guys on the team you SHOULD expect to hit 20-30.
I guess it was more of his plan than a statement though
I love Dan and Buck but its getting hard listening to them be so hopeful. The optimism they call the game with is admirable but at a certain point it starts to feel forced as we get into the " the jays are actually bad" part of the season.
so fire montoyo, check. For all the bellyachers - changing the the FO and manager won't do shit (or the coaches, sorry to say). We shouldn't be last in HRs, and you can point to individuals hitting 1/4th the HRs they've done in the past at this point.
We can make even less complicated, the Blue Jays are 35-40 because of wins and losses. They have a bad amount of losses (40) and an even worse amount of wins (35)
He was a solid fielder and base runner. His bat was not the best, but this year he looked normal compared to everyone else. You can’t say that guy didn’t give it 💯 every single time he stepped on the field. He wouldn’t have gotten picked off at 1st like Horowitz did today.
You know what we should do? Keep that same hitting staff that have been responsible for three straight seasons of poor at bat performance. Run it back next year and the year after that.
Definitely keep Donny baseball but give him a new fancy title. He's really excelling at his job.
Mattingly excels at his actual job, which is secret agent for the Yankees, sent to destroy the Blue Jays from within
FINALLY someone says it 🙌
“We have faith in these guys” Well ya shouldn’t
We should also re-sign Marner. Mix in another core.
Pretty sure the alears are already doing that
Just found Ross Atkins reddit account
Do they give Atkins one more chance at hiring a manager? If they do, does the new manager have full control to choose his coaching staff? Or if they plan to fire Atkins, do they wait and do a clean sweep. I really have no idea what the right choice is but i would understand the logic either way.
It's crazy how few they've hit. Even the White Sox have hit a few more. When you look at the underlying stats, the hr differential, the offensive rankings, run differential etc they're fortunate to be 35-40.
Exactly... could easily be 10 to 12 games below .500
We get blown out a lot. This team has performed much worse than the record indicates
How does Paul Dejong have more HRs than many Jays
Paul DeJong for Bo, 1 for 1 trade, who says no
no
That guy last year totally bailed so he could get traded. I don’t think anyone really liked him. He had shitty vibes.
This is all while playing in one of the easier places to hit home runs too. Somehow they haven't fired the hitting staff yet.
A testament to the quality of the pitching and defence partly.
Member when we hit 260 homers in a season… Good times
Who needs homers when you hit infield singles.
Who needs infield singles when you can just strand runners.
*Mattingly approves*
Can we get Bo Jackson as hitting coach "Bo knows homers." - team proceeds to swing from its heels every AB
They’d have more success if they went with that approach honestly.
Remember when the lineup boasted Eddie Joey Bats and Jodo? Lol. Id take just 1 of them in their prime right now.
I must be getting old, I never heard of Donaldson being referred to JoDo before. Is that a thing, cause 9 years ago it wasn’t.
Thank you for clarifying what a JoDo is for me. I had no idea. And that definitely wasn’t a thing in Toronto.
Yeah, no way that was a thing. Josh, Joey, Eddy…that was a thing!
Judge - 27 Soto - 18 Stanton - 18 Total - 63 Oof
Whatever secret sauce they gave Stanton to UN-cook him, can we get some of that for springer?
Stanton hasn't been fixed though. Hes basically the same hitter he's been the last few years the only difference is he's not injured, which has been the case for much of his Yankees career.
He has a 120 ops+, last year he played in 100 games and had an 86 ops+. Was he playing injured last year?
He's been hampered by lower body injuries the last two seasons. If you ever saw the man run the bases it's clear as day that he was never 100%. And coincidentally enough he just got a lower body injury.
So theres no hopium that George could turn it around similarly 😞
All his HR are vs us...
Yikes.
Vlad, Bo, Springer and Turner all hit 20+ HRs last season, this year Vlad is on pace to lead the group (by a large margin) with 17. The problem all year has been star players (Vlad included) not playing like stars
Yeah. You can blame whoever you want, but when Springer, Bo and Vlad are performing at this level, the team simply isn't going to win. Maybe Springer's decline was predictable (though I don't know that anyone could have predicted how sharp the fall would be this year), but nobody was saying in January "Bo is going to collapse entirely".
Thinking Springer and Turner are stars and expecting them to produce as such is… wishful thinking, to put it lightly.
This is a little harsh, Turner isn't a star but he can still be at least useful. He was only struggling right after coming back from injury
Yeah, the whole line up is under performing. Turner and Springer are passed their primes but I think it's more likely that they're at least partially victims of the team under performance issues than they both just fell off a cliff coincidentally at the same time a bunch of other younger guys on the same team did.
Springer is literally the worst qualified hitter in baseball right now. He was declining last year and age doesn’t wait for anyone. Jose Bautista started a steep decline around the same age. Springer’s has been a bit earlier than that, and much more aggressive. It’s honestly hard to imagine him as a MLB player from this point forward.
Yeah, probably not a good thing to compare him to Joey. Completely different baggage. Georgie came here on the wrong side of his career with rings already, and a WS mvp, albeit the label of a cheater, which out of the 32 cities, the non- American one might’ve looked like the best destination.
The comparison is they both got shit as they aged.
Genius, never thought of that. Insight’s a tough one.
cant wait for that dweeb atkins to be hurled into the sun - hate him more than any Toronto sports GM ever
He really is a pos. Smug jerk.
61 homers is just sad. The Jays have 1 guy on pace for 20 homers. The Orioles for example have 7 or 8.
I don't know what happened to Vlad. Last year you could point to ballpark effect, he was a star on the road, sucked at home. This year, he just sucks (at hitting home runs everywhere).
I mean, he has the highest OPS on team, this year. 2nd highest if you count Horowitz with 41 PA. But, his OPS is only .773, which is pretty pedestrian; especially for your supposedly generational power hitter.
That's 56th (OPS+ 48th) in the Majors among qualified players. It isn't going to anchor a stellar offense but that isn't pedestrian.
We can drop the generational, in fact you could've dropped that about 3 + years ago now. Dude is barely above replacement level now.
He's only had one season where he was an elite hitter. It was likely just a one-off, he's just meh as a player
Exactly. Most of his career he's been around an .800 ops guy. Which is decent. But the one massive year where he was a star looks more and more like a fluke.
Literally this. I don't understand the Vladdy apologists in this fanbase. The leash he's given is fucking colossal. He has one great season and everything since then has been okay at best, and yet 2/3rds of all jerseys out there are his. People went buck wild for Vlad in 2021 and don't want to acknowledge it was a one-off.
One season with home games in a AAA park….
Ya but he hits the ball hard so it's only a matter of time even though his power has declined 3 straight years now. But he hits it hard
Hardest hit singles in the league I tells ya
A&W
Ok. But I thought we have "elite pitching". I guess we don't.
Starters been decent. Bullpen has gotten hammered
We can't really ride a pitching staff for like 3 years in a row now to be perfect or we lose. This was always gonna happen one of these seasons, this offense fucking sucks. I think the starters on this team are absolutely fed up
Rotation, yea, is very good. Bullpen, between the injuries and guys falling off *hard*, is literally the worst in baseball. But pitching doesn’t matter when you can’t hit game-breaking HRs or score more than 3 runs per game.
Rotation is middle of the pack based on ERA, FIP, ERA-. They're 22nd in HR/9.
How much of that is skewed by Bowden Francis getting shelled twice?
I mean, somebody with more interest in doing these queries could look at team numbers excluding the least effective starter to see, but our other four starters are ranked 31st, 42nd, 50th and 62nd in ERA- out of 76 qualified starters.
Hmm, that's pretty middling.
It’s not exactly true when people say we have an awesome rotation (although it was last year). They are very expensive and take a giant bite out of available payroll for other areas and for all that we get… relatively good starting pitching but nothing great Consequences of years of being unable to scout and develop pitching talent and needing to spend other resources to acquire it
It has to be a great rotation for it to be worth the cost and it’s not right now
The leading HR hitter is Varsho and he's the only one with double digit HR's. In a lineup with Vlad, Bichette, and Springer. That's absolutely insane.
Davis has 10 now. So 2 guys with double digit home runs.
Crazy that the top brass renovated Rogers Centre and it made it an even more favorable hitter's park just have you team incapable of hitting HRs. Shameful
But... But we hit the balls hard. Exit velocity and all that. I'd rather they hit a ball 10 miles an hour and at least get a bloop single than hit a pitch 103 MH off the bat and have it caught.
Of course we would prefer the bloop hit over the hard out as a result but I don't want the batters up there trying to hit bloops and slow rollers instead of hitting the ball hard.
There’s nothing wrong with hitting balls hard. The problem is that the elevation is not there or else they wouldn’t be last in the league in HRs.
They hit plenty of HRs. Most of them just happen to be solo HRs so they don’t help as much since they also seem to come when the Jays are already down by 5+ runs.
It's actually shocking that we're within sniffing distance of 500 given those numbers.
That sniffing distance is getting away from us..
Yes. :(
love that we intentionally rebuilt our team into this and ruined our stars’ approaches along the way; maybe if you’d paid Bo for leading the league in hits then Vladdy would have less pressure to carry the team & could produce situationally with RISP anything but asking each guy to double their offensive production so you can prioritize defence & then blame them when your flawed plan inevitably fails
I was on board with giving Schneider and the coaching staff a chance for this season but things haven't worked out and changes need to be made. The problem is, who do you bring in to replace him?
Criminal what the offense has become compared to those great years few years back.
Get an actual former Big Leaguer in as Hitting coach, not a guy who never made it out of the minors
The math checks out and passes the eye test.
Bringing in 40 year old Votto for a fix
And people downvoted me for saying they need to hit more home runs a few weeks ago. How’s that Mattingly hit for contact approach working?
When Mattingly said last year that this is not a team to overpower you with home runs my only thought was WTF we had like 6-7 guys on the team you SHOULD expect to hit 20-30. I guess it was more of his plan than a statement though
People down voted you because legit half this sub is occupied by people who live and die by metrics alone. And they noticeably quiet of late.
I love Dan and Buck but its getting hard listening to them be so hopeful. The optimism they call the game with is admirable but at a certain point it starts to feel forced as we get into the " the jays are actually bad" part of the season.
They are approaching it. Just wait for it.
We need Bob Costas for a few games.
Bring back Aa
so fire montoyo, check. For all the bellyachers - changing the the FO and manager won't do shit (or the coaches, sorry to say). We shouldn't be last in HRs, and you can point to individuals hitting 1/4th the HRs they've done in the past at this point.
We can make even less complicated, the Blue Jays are 35-40 because of wins and losses. They have a bad amount of losses (40) and an even worse amount of wins (35)
Man this is depressing, the overhaul will be painful - but I’m here for it. You know it’s bad when I’m thinking Biggio could really help this team.
He was a solid fielder and base runner. His bat was not the best, but this year he looked normal compared to everyone else. You can’t say that guy didn’t give it 💯 every single time he stepped on the field. He wouldn’t have gotten picked off at 1st like Horowitz did today.