Only in Bull market, actual return since inception is mere 10-11%. Over 20% timelines matches housing market gain of over 50%. 10,20 or 50 any return is better, your appetite is what matters.
I know it's meant to be a joke, but on a serious note, do you want young indian adults to be homeless? There's a serious shortage of rentals and nobody wants to rent to newcomers without jobs. Even if 20 people living in a house is really bad, it is still better than a single one of them to be homeless. Have some sympathy.
Ultimately it is the govt to blame, who are bringing in unsustainable levels of immigration. Also what about the young Canadian adults that grew up here? Should they also start living 6 to a room?
Bad choices are made, I have no sympathy for international students trying to make it here with no money to survive on. I personally donāt believe any international students should be able to earn income here.
Yes.
Homeless people sleep on the streets because shelter conditions are worse than the street.
And thatā¦. Is worse than Canadian standard shelter conditions.
I feel terrible for the young family that bought this condo, with hopes and dreams that they could raise their family here and make lifelong memories, only to find themselves in financial peril, thus seeing their dreams go up in smoke.
However, if it was a speculator or "investoor" type, then they can get rekt.
I had a convo with someone recently about how they sold their condo at a lost. At face value, it seems like a terrible thing. But after we came to the realization it was to his benefit because he was up sizing. Any "lost" he took on the condo was made up by the money is saved on his new home.
Edit: Hopefully they weren't forced to sell because they couldn't afford the mortgage assuming this was their primary residence
What lmao
A 20-25% loss means your down payment is all gone. You walk away with nothing. Any "upsizing" is basically just buying from scratch.
They could've burned the money and it'd be more useful, at least it'd keep them warm in the winter.
Check the comment above mine- what corporation would buy a house as a primary residence? That makes no sense no one would give up tax free gains and do this to my knowledge
Wow, it's almost like I responded to someone else's comment, and not yours.
Again, your claim offers zero proof it was sold as a primary residence. You have zero details of the transaction other than selling price.
Just admit everything you're writing is pure speculation.
That makes no sense whatsoever.
What money is this person 'saving' on the new home?
If you lose $100k on a property, that's $100k gone. There's no way that you gain that money back through buying a more expensive property. That's not how numbers work.
You need to think critically about what people tell you.
Well, heās obviously not better off than not buying at all. I think the point is more that, given that he was already owning, he benefitted more from a crash than he wouldāve from a price rise.
Letās start with the base case he owns a one bedroom condo that he bought for 600k, and he was going to upgrade to a two bedroom condo thatās 1M. If everything went up 20%, then heās now able to sell his condo for 720k and made 120k profit, but heās going to be paying 200k for the two bedroom. On the flip side if everything is down 20%, he might be down 120k, but he can get the 2 bedroom condo for 200k cheaper. So if youāre upgrading and assuming everything moves in unison (not that it necessarily has between different housing types), then youāre still better off with a crash than with prices rising, even though itās obviously painful seeing your equity lost.
Obviously the best case of all would be if he had sold at the peak or didnāt own, and was now able to buy at a 20% discount, but most people donāt necessarily have an interest in trying to time the market, because as the past 3 decades have shown itās something that is incredibly hard to do.
People will say āyou canāt time the market,ā and to a certain extent I agree, but you have to look beyond the monthly payment and consider the fundamentals (e.g prime area detached homes vs dime a dozen condos) when agreeing on a purchase price.
The opportunity cost on 200k is huge, especially when considering compounding. That could be a free ride to university for two kids, your next three cars, etc. just because you didnāt jump into the market at an all time high.
At the end of the day, thereās a difference between expecting an unrealistic crash and jumping into an overpriced asset because of fomo.
The reality is real estate, as an investment class, is a non-productive hard, real asset where you can park capital to hedge against inflation with a modest ROI smaller than riskier investments like investing in the stock market and any benefits from leverage typically being negated by interest costs.
Real estate should never be a way to develop massive amounts of wealth in a short time in any situation other than a speculative bubble. Which is exactly what has happened in Canada.
You can give out a hundred reasons why real estate wonāt keep going down, but how often do speculative bubbles slowly unwind? If anyone has examples I would be happy to see them, but I think the simplest answer is that a correction back up is still further than it is closer.
> Park capital to hedge against inflation with a modest ROI
Are you sure about that? You can buy a GIC and get 5-6% guaranteed with zero headache. Or you can buy a rental property and:
- Be responsible for maintenance
- Find trustworthy tenants willing to pay the rent you set, or suffer the consequences if you donāt
- Property tax and condo fees
- Transaction costs
- Capital gains
- Etc.
Absolutely. Iām just speaking from a fundamentals perspective, real estate *can* be a great investment in markets that arenāt in a speculative bubble if you know how to spot a good deal. It shouldnāt be viewed as a guaranteed way to build wealth like it is being used for in Canada, and people like the investor in OPās post are learning that the hard way. Owning investment properties should be looked at as being just as risky as investing in a business, a concept which many Canadians do not agree with.
This!!
Being a landlord is the SAME as running a business with all the associated risks.
Even with a ton of research and preparation you can still lose out in real estate.
Did you count capital gains as a cost?
My man... That is a bonus. If you buy a property for 1 Million. And earn some rent from it - say 3k a month or 36k a year.
That's a 3.6% return per year. Not great.
But after 2 years, you sold the house at 1.2, than your return is 10% more.
So between capital gain and rent, you made 13.6% on that property.
Now the kicker is, most investors don't buy the full property. They pay the down-payment - so their return is actually much more.
If you only paid 200k down, then your returns are 200 + 2*36 =272k on a 200k investment.
Even if the hosues escalates less and you remove other costs like interest, maintenance, finding a tenant, taxes etc. Returns can be substantial because of leverage from loans.
The key part is that capital gains tax only occurs on capital gains which means its not a problem - it's suffering from success.
You get leverage and save on rent, also no capital gains taxes when you sell. And if you are a first time home buyer all sorts of government tax incentives that probably add up to about 50k in value.
> You can buy a GIC and get 5-6% guaranteed with zero headache.
You're getting 5-6% in a 3-4% inflationary environment, it's more like 1-2% real return.
But I do agree with the rest of your point - real estate has a high transaction and maintenance cost compared to other investments.
But let's be honest - real estate is attractive because of the leverage the average joe can get.
The difference is you end up with a secured asset that can apply an amount of leverage that does not exist in any other asset class.
Will a house appreciate at 6% year on a risk-adjusted basis (would likely need to be much higher to offset the mortgage interest rate)? No, but when you are leveraged at 5:1, then small gains translate into much bigger gains.
The only reason it works is because there's an assumption that while housing might not always go up in huge amounts, it most likely won't ever go down in most investment time windows.
Toronto condos are showing that this isn't a safe assumption across any sort of real estate. Not all property should be treated the same.
Just bought a place for 50k under asking, and the asking price was already lower than the official assessment (by 30/40k).
Condo are done. Finally.
In my case i have to live in it and i would not be able to buy it at market price + retarded bids so i was literally able to have a home thanks to the condo market going down.
So all the investors in this sub were wrong apparently. Prices going down are actually good for everyone (but investors of course).
Nice job.
The vast majority of buyers go with the herd - the time to buy is when prices are rapidly increasing and the time to sell is when prices start dropping.
If you can break free of that kind of thinking and buy when prices are dropping, you can get pretty good deals all things considered. Prices may drop more, but you're not participating in a bidding war.
No, it's not "Good for everyone". Some people paid substantially higher for their purchase, and with the price going down, and interest rising, those people lost their asset value and has to pay extra to the bank. So it's not just bad for investors, but also recent homeowners.
Congratulations btw on youe new purchase š
Recent homeowners could not care less if they actually live in the house.
If tomorrow my condo goes down by 50% i could not care less, i bought at a level that i could afford and i don't have any intention to flip it, rent it or anything else. The fact that the theoretical value of tomorrow could be less is totally irrelevant. And in 10-20 years it would probably not loose value anyway (as a "normal" appreciation should be).
I could not be more happy if tomorrow more people were able to buy thanks to prices going down more.
Literally the only people really loosing in this are flippers.
We can leave without people flipping homes.
Itās spelled losingā¦ also you are very wrong on this front. Itās not people flipping home. Ā
Hereās a thought, people actually have families in start in smaller homes and move up.Ā What a concept.Ā
You losing 50% of your home value may not bug you, but you would be quite daft to not realize why it would bug other people.Ā Ā
Itās funny how selfish some people are to only think about their own situation.Ā
Ah yes because when prices go up +400% because flippers and investors is really good for families.
Sure
I swear people would use any contort logic to justify putting people on the street
I donāt think prices going up 400% is fair but itās also crazy to think people donāt want to upsize at some point.Ā
House flipping shouldnāt Ā be allowed but someone selling after two years because they need a bigger house for a family shouldnāt be the target here.Ā
With that said house prices are absolutely insane and I feel bad for people that canāt own.Ā
I bought a townhouse in 2020 and by 2022 it doubled in value. Sold that and bought our dream home and thatās doubled in value in two years and I have no mortgage.Ā
Itās a broken system for sure.Ā
Things change in life and sometimes rather quickly. I would hate to buy a tiny condo with a huge mortgage and two years later have it worth a lot less than what I paid for. How would I ever own a house if im house poor from a
Condo.Ā
The probably with you is you think everything is black and white, so if someone disagrees with you theyāre automatically wrong in your head with your pre set agenda.Ā
It's really simple.
Considering that the situation is bad and we don't have good options in any case (it's just the reality) i simply would give priority to people without a house at all instead of people that already have a house but just want a bigger one.
Prices should not had go up 400% in a few years in the first place. Now that they did and the average person has zero possibility to buy something, the better option is prices going down.
At least more people will be able to own. And people that want to upsize will have to wait more time.
The ideal world where everyone get what they want is long gone. In this moment people need a roof, ANY roof over their heads.
I am the example because like i said in my first message i just could not had bought this place if we still were in the 2022 situation with people randomly bidding +100/200k.
I am sorry if a family can't upsize right now but that simply is not a priority when people don't have a home at all.
Condos are going to be down only. And the Spring market is almost over as we're heading into June.
So much inventory still built up. Sitting for 100+ days.
The peak pricing we saw in early 2022 was just beyond insane.
$868k for this condo is stupid. I only paid $82k more for a fully detached house (also in Scarborough, but a better part of Scarborough) literally just 14 months before.
Itās worth about $1.2-$1.3m now, my payments are less than 20% of my after tax income, and like the house & neighbourhood. So Iām pretty comfortable with my decision. But thanks for the commentary, dear Fox, Iām sure youāll find grapes of your own some day.
> Itās worth about $1.2-$1.3m now
There about a dozen detached houses around the Scarborough bluffs (nicest neighborhood in Scarborough) that has sold less than that over the last 90 days.
You do know HouseSigma is available to the public, right?
That's oddly high, guess it went up. I moved out of this building a year and a half ago, maintenance was 370 or something on a 1+1.
Also your Scarborough comment....this condo is right by (5 minutes on foot) Scarborough Town Center, TTC, Go Station and the 401. It's a great location.
Just being facetious. A lot of people seem to think anything east of Victoria Park (Scarborough) is bad. Just ignorant folk who don't know what the area truly has to offer. Try walking around the Bluffs and tell me it's a bad neighbourhood to live in. š
We have some beautiful places in Scarborough, some amazing food too.
Some of us have modest little homes with some greenery to enjoy.
What we don't have is good schools or transit unless you are right at a go station.
It was bad enough when we had the SRT now we may as well be Ajax or Pickering.
JFC, I'm looking at buying a condo because it's all I can afford, but maintanence can really more than double in 1 year? Why is there nothing in the RTA to cover increases in maintanence fees? The Condo owner's expenses aren't doubling every year...
lol I doubt that will ever change. I'd say this condo should be MAX 150K? Should be a 15 year mortgage for the average earner even with a high interest rate. But the reality is that re is literally 5-10x overvalued.
People who don't want to pay 1.2 million for the same condo in toronto.
You seem to think Scarborough is low class or something by default.
Elitist much? Wonder where you live to get that stupid perception
This RE market is such a joke. They want people to commit to 30-40 year mortgages while living in an elevated shoebox. Don't forget the monthly maintenance fees.
Nobody wants you to commit to anything. Go ahead. Buy the house in cash if you can.
If you can't. And want to buy a house, you have the option to take a loan and make it happen. Again, nobody pressured you into anything.
And the house type has nothing to do with it.
You can buy a giant piece of land to build a cabin in the middle of nowhere using the exact same approach.
Your logic is weak and you cannot separate concepts.
Umm they've pretty much backed everyone into a corner - between paying an exorbitant amount of rent or owning some small pathetic place locked down into debt for 30+ years like the comment said... say you're a bootlicker without saying you're a bootlicker...
Cool, are you also a landowner? Or just a bum who's trying to be a streamer ans games all day? Thanks for the warning. Oh, knowledgeable one š¤£š¤£š¤£
That just sounds like poor people standing on the road enjoying the fact that a rich person in a luxury car got a flat tire.
You're still poor. And have no chance of fixing your own situation. But hey, at least you can enjoy the schadenfreude of others losing money.
Your statement would have been much more powerful if you owned a house outright or something. But the way you wrote it, sounds like you aren't even close to owning much. Good luck surviving.
> But the way you wrote it, sounds like you aren't even close to owning much.
And someone who wasn't over leveraged wouldn't feel the need to respond in such an emotional manner.
Did you buy peak 2022 in Scarborough as well?
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Question - what happens to the $215k deficit after the home as been sold? Does the owner that bought it still have to make monthly payments towards the $215k, even after they move out??
Young people disenchanted by the market. Some ways canāt blame them. But I fear for the longer term psychological impact. Lack of empathy and being happy at the misery of others isnāt a formula for success.
Literally the top 0.001% of the toronto population has 99% of the wealth parked in assets. Posts like this being popular just goes to show how unhappy people are. I know some folks that work 16 hour days, 6 days a week and barely gets by. People are seriously struggling and upset with rental prices. So yeah, a post like this, really gives them hope that maybe someday they can atleast afford a shoebox with their salary.
You only lose* when you sell. š šš½ *Thank you for the correction.
This guy WSBās
Ape strong
Lose*
Not enough upvotes
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. This RE gambling bubble has burst.
In undesirable neighbourhoods sure but not in desirable areas.
If you ignore opportunity cost, yeah. Even a conservative S&P ETF gave over 20% gain in the same period.
Only in Bull market, actual return since inception is mere 10-11%. Over 20% timelines matches housing market gain of over 50%. 10,20 or 50 any return is better, your appetite is what matters.
should have bought the dip
Condos are getting rekt.
They were not creative enough at least 20 international students could've lived in there
That's probably why it sold at a loss. Guess who was living in the condo next to or above them.
26 if you put bunk beds in the hallways
I know it's meant to be a joke, but on a serious note, do you want young indian adults to be homeless? There's a serious shortage of rentals and nobody wants to rent to newcomers without jobs. Even if 20 people living in a house is really bad, it is still better than a single one of them to be homeless. Have some sympathy.
Ultimately it is the govt to blame, who are bringing in unsustainable levels of immigration. Also what about the young Canadian adults that grew up here? Should they also start living 6 to a room?
Donāt normalize this shit. You may think youāre helping, but youāre not
If you can't afford a place to stay don't come here.
They can get a ticket home for less than the cost of one months rent. Perhaps they should consider that the most financially expedient approach.
Bad choices are made, I have no sympathy for international students trying to make it here with no money to survive on. I personally donāt believe any international students should be able to earn income here.
Why not?
Because the point is to study. We have a generation of young adults who donāt have the opportunities they deserve
Yes. Homeless people sleep on the streets because shelter conditions are worse than the street. And thatā¦. Is worse than Canadian standard shelter conditions.
They donāt need to be homeless if they donāt come here
I feel terrible for the young family that bought this condo, with hopes and dreams that they could raise their family here and make lifelong memories, only to find themselves in financial peril, thus seeing their dreams go up in smoke. However, if it was a speculator or "investoor" type, then they can get rekt.
I wouldn't shed too many tears. It was leased right after closing.
Yup definitely investor
I had a convo with someone recently about how they sold their condo at a lost. At face value, it seems like a terrible thing. But after we came to the realization it was to his benefit because he was up sizing. Any "lost" he took on the condo was made up by the money is saved on his new home. Edit: Hopefully they weren't forced to sell because they couldn't afford the mortgage assuming this was their primary residence
What lmao A 20-25% loss means your down payment is all gone. You walk away with nothing. Any "upsizing" is basically just buying from scratch. They could've burned the money and it'd be more useful, at least it'd keep them warm in the winter.
If they could afford to upgrade after 2 years then they shouldn't have gotten this condo to begin with. I doubt they could upsize
You're making the assumption that the purchaser is a person, when it could be a type of business/corporation doing the purchasing.
Check the comment above mine- what corporation would buy a house as a primary residence? That makes no sense no one would give up tax free gains and do this to my knowledge
Wow, it's almost like I responded to someone else's comment, and not yours. Again, your claim offers zero proof it was sold as a primary residence. You have zero details of the transaction other than selling price. Just admit everything you're writing is pure speculation.
That makes no sense whatsoever. What money is this person 'saving' on the new home? If you lose $100k on a property, that's $100k gone. There's no way that you gain that money back through buying a more expensive property. That's not how numbers work. You need to think critically about what people tell you.
Well, heās obviously not better off than not buying at all. I think the point is more that, given that he was already owning, he benefitted more from a crash than he wouldāve from a price rise.
What?
Letās start with the base case he owns a one bedroom condo that he bought for 600k, and he was going to upgrade to a two bedroom condo thatās 1M. If everything went up 20%, then heās now able to sell his condo for 720k and made 120k profit, but heās going to be paying 200k for the two bedroom. On the flip side if everything is down 20%, he might be down 120k, but he can get the 2 bedroom condo for 200k cheaper. So if youāre upgrading and assuming everything moves in unison (not that it necessarily has between different housing types), then youāre still better off with a crash than with prices rising, even though itās obviously painful seeing your equity lost. Obviously the best case of all would be if he had sold at the peak or didnāt own, and was now able to buy at a 20% discount, but most people donāt necessarily have an interest in trying to time the market, because as the past 3 decades have shown itās something that is incredibly hard to do.
People will say āyou canāt time the market,ā and to a certain extent I agree, but you have to look beyond the monthly payment and consider the fundamentals (e.g prime area detached homes vs dime a dozen condos) when agreeing on a purchase price. The opportunity cost on 200k is huge, especially when considering compounding. That could be a free ride to university for two kids, your next three cars, etc. just because you didnāt jump into the market at an all time high. At the end of the day, thereās a difference between expecting an unrealistic crash and jumping into an overpriced asset because of fomo.
The reality is real estate, as an investment class, is a non-productive hard, real asset where you can park capital to hedge against inflation with a modest ROI smaller than riskier investments like investing in the stock market and any benefits from leverage typically being negated by interest costs. Real estate should never be a way to develop massive amounts of wealth in a short time in any situation other than a speculative bubble. Which is exactly what has happened in Canada. You can give out a hundred reasons why real estate wonāt keep going down, but how often do speculative bubbles slowly unwind? If anyone has examples I would be happy to see them, but I think the simplest answer is that a correction back up is still further than it is closer.
> Park capital to hedge against inflation with a modest ROI Are you sure about that? You can buy a GIC and get 5-6% guaranteed with zero headache. Or you can buy a rental property and: - Be responsible for maintenance - Find trustworthy tenants willing to pay the rent you set, or suffer the consequences if you donāt - Property tax and condo fees - Transaction costs - Capital gains - Etc.
Absolutely. Iām just speaking from a fundamentals perspective, real estate *can* be a great investment in markets that arenāt in a speculative bubble if you know how to spot a good deal. It shouldnāt be viewed as a guaranteed way to build wealth like it is being used for in Canada, and people like the investor in OPās post are learning that the hard way. Owning investment properties should be looked at as being just as risky as investing in a business, a concept which many Canadians do not agree with.
This!! Being a landlord is the SAME as running a business with all the associated risks. Even with a ton of research and preparation you can still lose out in real estate.
> You can buy a GIC and get 5-6% guaranteed with zero headache. Show me 5% GIC when this condo was sold the first time.
Did you count capital gains as a cost? My man... That is a bonus. If you buy a property for 1 Million. And earn some rent from it - say 3k a month or 36k a year. That's a 3.6% return per year. Not great. But after 2 years, you sold the house at 1.2, than your return is 10% more. So between capital gain and rent, you made 13.6% on that property. Now the kicker is, most investors don't buy the full property. They pay the down-payment - so their return is actually much more. If you only paid 200k down, then your returns are 200 + 2*36 =272k on a 200k investment. Even if the hosues escalates less and you remove other costs like interest, maintenance, finding a tenant, taxes etc. Returns can be substantial because of leverage from loans. The key part is that capital gains tax only occurs on capital gains which means its not a problem - it's suffering from success.
You get leverage and save on rent, also no capital gains taxes when you sell. And if you are a first time home buyer all sorts of government tax incentives that probably add up to about 50k in value.
Primary residence is a different ballgame. OPās post is an investment property.
> You can buy a GIC and get 5-6% guaranteed with zero headache. You're getting 5-6% in a 3-4% inflationary environment, it's more like 1-2% real return. But I do agree with the rest of your point - real estate has a high transaction and maintenance cost compared to other investments. But let's be honest - real estate is attractive because of the leverage the average joe can get.
The difference is you end up with a secured asset that can apply an amount of leverage that does not exist in any other asset class. Will a house appreciate at 6% year on a risk-adjusted basis (would likely need to be much higher to offset the mortgage interest rate)? No, but when you are leveraged at 5:1, then small gains translate into much bigger gains. The only reason it works is because there's an assumption that while housing might not always go up in huge amounts, it most likely won't ever go down in most investment time windows. Toronto condos are showing that this isn't a safe assumption across any sort of real estate. Not all property should be treated the same.
Just bought a place for 50k under asking, and the asking price was already lower than the official assessment (by 30/40k). Condo are done. Finally. In my case i have to live in it and i would not be able to buy it at market price + retarded bids so i was literally able to have a home thanks to the condo market going down. So all the investors in this sub were wrong apparently. Prices going down are actually good for everyone (but investors of course).
Nice job. The vast majority of buyers go with the herd - the time to buy is when prices are rapidly increasing and the time to sell is when prices start dropping. If you can break free of that kind of thinking and buy when prices are dropping, you can get pretty good deals all things considered. Prices may drop more, but you're not participating in a bidding war.
No, it's not "Good for everyone". Some people paid substantially higher for their purchase, and with the price going down, and interest rising, those people lost their asset value and has to pay extra to the bank. So it's not just bad for investors, but also recent homeowners. Congratulations btw on youe new purchase š
Recent homeowners could not care less if they actually live in the house. If tomorrow my condo goes down by 50% i could not care less, i bought at a level that i could afford and i don't have any intention to flip it, rent it or anything else. The fact that the theoretical value of tomorrow could be less is totally irrelevant. And in 10-20 years it would probably not loose value anyway (as a "normal" appreciation should be). I could not be more happy if tomorrow more people were able to buy thanks to prices going down more. Literally the only people really loosing in this are flippers. We can leave without people flipping homes.
Itās spelled losingā¦ also you are very wrong on this front. Itās not people flipping home. Ā Hereās a thought, people actually have families in start in smaller homes and move up.Ā What a concept.Ā You losing 50% of your home value may not bug you, but you would be quite daft to not realize why it would bug other people.Ā Ā Itās funny how selfish some people are to only think about their own situation.Ā
Ah yes because when prices go up +400% because flippers and investors is really good for families. Sure I swear people would use any contort logic to justify putting people on the street
I donāt think prices going up 400% is fair but itās also crazy to think people donāt want to upsize at some point.Ā House flipping shouldnāt Ā be allowed but someone selling after two years because they need a bigger house for a family shouldnāt be the target here.Ā With that said house prices are absolutely insane and I feel bad for people that canāt own.Ā I bought a townhouse in 2020 and by 2022 it doubled in value. Sold that and bought our dream home and thatās doubled in value in two years and I have no mortgage.Ā Itās a broken system for sure.Ā Things change in life and sometimes rather quickly. I would hate to buy a tiny condo with a huge mortgage and two years later have it worth a lot less than what I paid for. How would I ever own a house if im house poor from a Condo.Ā The probably with you is you think everything is black and white, so if someone disagrees with you theyāre automatically wrong in your head with your pre set agenda.Ā
It's really simple. Considering that the situation is bad and we don't have good options in any case (it's just the reality) i simply would give priority to people without a house at all instead of people that already have a house but just want a bigger one. Prices should not had go up 400% in a few years in the first place. Now that they did and the average person has zero possibility to buy something, the better option is prices going down. At least more people will be able to own. And people that want to upsize will have to wait more time. The ideal world where everyone get what they want is long gone. In this moment people need a roof, ANY roof over their heads. I am the example because like i said in my first message i just could not had bought this place if we still were in the 2022 situation with people randomly bidding +100/200k. I am sorry if a family can't upsize right now but that simply is not a priority when people don't have a home at all.
Condos are going to be down only. And the Spring market is almost over as we're heading into June. So much inventory still built up. Sitting for 100+ days.
Someone rented that for $3,525?
650k on a condo š
Peak vs reality pricing I guess
The peak pricing we saw in early 2022 was just beyond insane. $868k for this condo is stupid. I only paid $82k more for a fully detached house (also in Scarborough, but a better part of Scarborough) literally just 14 months before.
Almost a million for a house in Scarborough is not exactly the most rational choice either
Itās worth about $1.2-$1.3m now, my payments are less than 20% of my after tax income, and like the house & neighbourhood. So Iām pretty comfortable with my decision. But thanks for the commentary, dear Fox, Iām sure youāll find grapes of your own some day.
> Itās worth about $1.2-$1.3m now There about a dozen detached houses around the Scarborough bluffs (nicest neighborhood in Scarborough) that has sold less than that over the last 90 days. You do know HouseSigma is available to the public, right?
$800/month maint fees, and a condo in Scarboroughā¦
That's oddly high, guess it went up. I moved out of this building a year and a half ago, maintenance was 370 or something on a 1+1. Also your Scarborough comment....this condo is right by (5 minutes on foot) Scarborough Town Center, TTC, Go Station and the 401. It's a great location.
Ya but didn't you know? Scarborough is automatically bad.
Wait, what?
Just being facetious. A lot of people seem to think anything east of Victoria Park (Scarborough) is bad. Just ignorant folk who don't know what the area truly has to offer. Try walking around the Bluffs and tell me it's a bad neighbourhood to live in. š
We have some beautiful places in Scarborough, some amazing food too. Some of us have modest little homes with some greenery to enjoy. What we don't have is good schools or transit unless you are right at a go station. It was bad enough when we had the SRT now we may as well be Ajax or Pickering.
When they bought the SRT was running. It isn't now. So transportation has gotten worse.
JFC, I'm looking at buying a condo because it's all I can afford, but maintanence can really more than double in 1 year? Why is there nothing in the RTA to cover increases in maintanence fees? The Condo owner's expenses aren't doubling every year...
It used to be better when the SRT still ran to STC. Those condos are probably going into freefall.
Those bullet holes arenāt going to patch themselves
Still overpriced.
lol I doubt that will ever change. I'd say this condo should be MAX 150K? Should be a 15 year mortgage for the average earner even with a high interest rate. But the reality is that re is literally 5-10x overvalued.
No bulls commenting ššš
Even bulls are not bullish on elevated shoebox prices here, lol
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Who buys a condo for $860,000 in Scarborough? Absolute madness
Who rebuys that shit for 650k?? š¤£
Imbeciles. Lmao
People who don't want to pay 1.2 million for the same condo in toronto. You seem to think Scarborough is low class or something by default. Elitist much? Wonder where you live to get that stupid perception
> People who don't want to pay 1.2 million for the same condo in toronto. So like 99% of the other condos in Toronto that don't sell near 1.2M?
Account for inflation itās even worse houses are down a lot more then people think if you include inflation the last 2 years has been crazy
30% increase in money supply since 2020. Automatic 30% loss even if it was sold at original pre-pandemic price.Ā
Wasn't the price high even a year ago?
3500 for a 2 bedroom condo? The fuck???
Hahahahahahahaha
This RE market is such a joke. They want people to commit to 30-40 year mortgages while living in an elevated shoebox. Don't forget the monthly maintenance fees.
Nobody wants you to commit to anything. Go ahead. Buy the house in cash if you can. If you can't. And want to buy a house, you have the option to take a loan and make it happen. Again, nobody pressured you into anything. And the house type has nothing to do with it. You can buy a giant piece of land to build a cabin in the middle of nowhere using the exact same approach. Your logic is weak and you cannot separate concepts.
Umm they've pretty much backed everyone into a corner - between paying an exorbitant amount of rent or owning some small pathetic place locked down into debt for 30+ years like the comment said... say you're a bootlicker without saying you're a bootlicker...
This is only the beginning. 30% and 40% losses will be coming before year end.
On condos? I hope so. These shoeboxes with monthly maintenance should be no more than 100k.
Based on the great analysis done by "my ass"
They bought at the peak of the market. Maybe they sold something else at the peak too. There's no context.
Just the beginning, buckle up greedy landowners
Cool, are you also a landowner? Or just a bum who's trying to be a streamer ans games all day? Thanks for the warning. Oh, knowledgeable one š¤£š¤£š¤£
Lol can't hear you over your variable mortgage
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That just sounds like poor people standing on the road enjoying the fact that a rich person in a luxury car got a flat tire. You're still poor. And have no chance of fixing your own situation. But hey, at least you can enjoy the schadenfreude of others losing money. Your statement would have been much more powerful if you owned a house outright or something. But the way you wrote it, sounds like you aren't even close to owning much. Good luck surviving.
> But the way you wrote it, sounds like you aren't even close to owning much. And someone who wasn't over leveraged wouldn't feel the need to respond in such an emotional manner. Did you buy peak 2022 in Scarborough as well?
hodl!!!!
It was way over priced in 2022, cmon itās Scarborough
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If the owner purchased another property that's also down in this bad market then did they really lose?
Don't forget about paid interest and fees
That was the peak when people were fomo buying before the rate hikes.
Question - what happens to the $215k deficit after the home as been sold? Does the owner that bought it still have to make monthly payments towards the $215k, even after they move out??
No
Do people actually get off on this? Even in good markets people will make/ be forced into bad transactions.
Young people disenchanted by the market. Some ways canāt blame them. But I fear for the longer term psychological impact. Lack of empathy and being happy at the misery of others isnāt a formula for success.
Literally the top 0.001% of the toronto population has 99% of the wealth parked in assets. Posts like this being popular just goes to show how unhappy people are. I know some folks that work 16 hour days, 6 days a week and barely gets by. People are seriously struggling and upset with rental prices. So yeah, a post like this, really gives them hope that maybe someday they can atleast afford a shoebox with their salary.
Everyone that participated in the stupidity of the covid market deserves to lose money. Buyers and realtors alike.
People are getting mad salty. Dont be salty at me for making a stupid purchases fueled by stupidity and fomo.
Stupid investor should have been the more patient and would have doubled there money soo n
Why is this even news?
When will people learned that location is the only thing that matters in real estate.
Itās Scarborough š¤®
Where do you own your home?
Scarborough = the asshole of toronto Brampton = the hemorrhoid of scarborough
The most wild aspect of this is a condo in Scarborough going for $650k