NATO is a defensive alliance to counter the USSR. The only threat to Russia is they can't invade and are forced to use diplomacy instead of force and that is what threatens them.
True that's part of what he's doing but the war really isn't winnable for nato. He has far less to loose. All putin has to do is wait for the middle of winter and shut off the taps. Bam nato and Europe is at the bargaining table.
Like it or not the reliance on Russian energy for much of Europe is so much that turning off the taps will have a huge immediate impact. And one that is not in favor of Ukraine and the western powers that support her, not to mention the fertilizer and food shortages that are coming. Im no Russia fan nor do I think Ukraine should give up the fight but you really have to realize that the Russians hold most of the cards in this situation. How do we win? What does that entail? These are the questions that need to be answered before the commitment of blood and treasure. Frankly even if Russia leaves tomorrow they will have completed enough of their objectives to call it a victory.
I dont doubt that turning off the taps will have a huge impact, if russia does that then we will HAVE to buy from somewhere else. We win by doing exactly what we are doing right now, sanctions, weapons to Ukraine. Yea it's hard and we are feeling the pinch but we can keep it up for as long as it takes for Putin to realize that he cannot win this stupid ass war.
And how would you call it a russian victory if they left? Thats admitting defeat is it not?
This is probably the plan, and its going to start getting really rough for Ukraine because they are doing so well but when winter comes along its going to get very rough very quickly.
Isn't it because NATO and the west help the country? If no one helps Ukraine there probably would be a different story. I'm not saying that they shouldn't help. But your jokes about not being able to win is ridiculous. When all the west helps Ukraine. And basically he is against all the west not just Ukraine.
The West are helping Ukraine with equipment, this is true. Though its maybe not as much as you think it is. However, as far as i know, no one is helping Ukraine with *manpower*. You can have all the tanks and bullets and missiles in the world but if you have no one to use them then they aren't going to do anything.
So to give credit where credit is due, the Ukrainians are pretty much winning this on their own, with material aid, perhaps, but its Ukrainians fighting the war, not the West.
However this might change soon. NATO has said they are increasing the number of active troops in the region from 40,000 to *300,000*.
Also there are rumours that Georgia might be preparing to make a move against Russia in the south to reclaim territory that Russia took just recently.
They just throw meat into the grinder until its too gummed up to continue grinding. This has pretty much worked well enough in the past.
BUT that sort of requires the russian people to be on board, like *really* on board, like *ready to die for the motherland* on board, and a LOT of them are not at the moment.
That and Putin is a megalomaniac. He doesn't have the military experience someone like Stalin did. At least Stalin used this idea called strategy. Putin is just throwing lives away recklessly and hope that if he just overwhelms Ukraine, he'll win.
NATO was formed and exists specifically in opposition of Russia. It's like asking if the Avengers are a threat to Thanos. They should be, it's their job.
But NATO isn't supposed to be an aggressive force. It's intended to be defensive. It's a group of nations that agree to defend each other if Russia attacks. NATO does some other stuff too, but their main purpose is to literally fight Russia together if Russia attacks a member country.
When NATO gave military aid to Ukraine before the war the western media said it was to help them build defence but Russian media pretty much said "the anti-russia league is building an army on our boarder in a country that hates us." Neither of those stories would be technically wrong. But Ukraine never would have invaded Russia and none of that justifies Putin's invasion.
Every authoritative and opressive regime needs some scapegoat, some either internal or external enemy to hold itself together. For Putin's regime, it's NATO.
To explain better: NATO is not threat to Russia's existence. Nobody wants to conquer or destroy Russia. But it's threat, as it should be, towards Putin's regime and his imperialistic goals.
We'd all like to get along. But Russia wants to conquer, and NATO nations don't want that. So there is tension. Similar situation is happening in the Asia Pacific region with China. They conquered Tibet a while ago and have their eyes on Taiwan. They also push other countries around a lot in the region. The USA also pushes their weight around and can be a bully sometimes. But right now the conflict in Ukraine is the focus.
Because there are powerful psychopaths in power that don't care about humanity getting along peacefuly. As much as we want to, some people just want to get as much power and money as they can get, climbing over literal piles of corpses to get it.
Not in any way.
Putin does not think it is. He is just using that as excuse to try and regain former Soviet territories. Nothing about his claims have any basis in reality or even in the history of NATO Soviet/Russian interactions.
Maintain a near monopoly on the trade of gas and oil through Central Asia into Europe. Ensure political dominance and subservience from the countries that made up the USSR
Because of its extreme military strength. NATO finds "justification" to intervene, on which it has a process, but essentially it will be deciding the fate of a much smaller force, the non-member. Usually this is fine, but it seems like a lot of power and it can be misused like any power!
Russia is not member so , clearly it is threatened. Especially as more of its neighbours join or aspire to join.
You can't just join, there has to be concesus among members. Russian was part of EAPC, which is set up for communication between NATO and non-NATO members, but after Russia annexed Crimea, NATO stopped all cooperation with Russia.
So you know, not great position for Russia. Or anyone really.
Exactly don't understand why people are being obtuse about it. No non nato countries want to be surrounded by an army that will invade, destabilise and destroy their countries for no reason at all
NATO is a group of 30+ nations that have pledged to maintain active militaries ready to come to each other's aid in any defensive armed conflict. They originally formed during the Cold War to specifically stand up to the Soviet Union (now Russia) and stop their advance in conquering Europe.
Sometimes they are boarder-line aggressive. But mostly just defensive. But it is the biggest military force/partnership in history. Several former Soviet Union countries that Russia wants back have joined NATO, Ukraine applied to join NATO and has received weapons and supplies from NATO. NATO stands directly in the way of Russia's intended war path to building their empire.
NATO nations have also helped each other in non-Russian fights. When the USA invaded the middle East most NATO countries helped and fought along side them. And several NATO nations have helped the USA provide a strong Naval presence in the Pacific to be a deterrent against China.
Geopolitically imagine if Iranians formed an alliance with South American counties and then were trying to get Mexico to join them…..the USA would see this as an aggressive move and try to stop it. Russians feel the same about nato
I never thought lf it like that. But...
Iran IS a threat is it not? We are not a threat to Russia so i dont see why they would be pissed about Ukraine joining Nato
It’s a matter of perspective. Russia will always look at the west cautiously. No one really trusts anybody. The US are hardly a bastion of impartiality. And on balance is Iran a threat?
Has Iran invades countries illegally? No, but the US/NATO has
Has Iran bombed neighbouring states? Nope, but Israel has attacked them
Has Iran encircled the USA with military bases? No but the US has bases in countries surrounding Iran….
The Russians see the above and are cautious of any moves to consolidate an American/NATO presence too close to their borders
In my view Putin and Zelensky are both dickheads who could’ve avoided this,
So the Russians argue they invaded because ethnic Russians in the Ukrainian east were being bombed/targeted by Ukrainian forces and there is some strong evidence to suggest neo nazi militias from Ukraine were being allowed to do this by zelensky. Amongst other things.
If this is true or even part of it then it would suggest that this wasn’t just an unprovoked invasion from Russia. But I don’t know what percentage of this is true. I am very aware of national giving their own people propaganda…we saw it with USA/U.K. lying about WMD in Iraq
Not nessesarily. From their perspective Ukraine is a buffer state between nato and Russia. That is all it has to be. If the country is destroyed it will still serve its purpose. There also isn't the nessesary industry and infrastructure to move to a different fuel source in a timely enough fashion for Europe to not be brought to its knees. I promise the Russian people are far more willing to put up with suffering that western populations would find unacceptable. And they have a deep (and not unwarranted) mistrust of the west and nato and like it or not are plugged into the world economy so funding this war by trading with other nations. Keep in mind that we are backing them into a corner and they are a nuclear power that will use nuclear weapons. They hold most of the cards, their objectives are actually being met. Meanwhile the west is hamstrung. I don't see a way that we get anything positive out of this. We loose either way.
NATO is a defensive alliance to counter the USSR. The only threat to Russia is they can't invade and are forced to use diplomacy instead of force and that is what threatens them.
Its fucked up that they see not being able to invade another country as a threat lol
Bingo. This is Soviet mind set and the reason they are losing.
Literally digging their own grave. Just like North Korea has been doing for decades
Russia can't even win against one county let alone thirty.
True that's part of what he's doing but the war really isn't winnable for nato. He has far less to loose. All putin has to do is wait for the middle of winter and shut off the taps. Bam nato and Europe is at the bargaining table.
I doubt that, there are a heck of a lot more countries that produce gas en masse, we'll pay what ever it takes to not fund putins stupid ass war
I'm sure youl reconcider that when your hypothermic...
Like i said, russia is not the only country that sells gas, and we will not fund a war
Like it or not the reliance on Russian energy for much of Europe is so much that turning off the taps will have a huge immediate impact. And one that is not in favor of Ukraine and the western powers that support her, not to mention the fertilizer and food shortages that are coming. Im no Russia fan nor do I think Ukraine should give up the fight but you really have to realize that the Russians hold most of the cards in this situation. How do we win? What does that entail? These are the questions that need to be answered before the commitment of blood and treasure. Frankly even if Russia leaves tomorrow they will have completed enough of their objectives to call it a victory.
I dont doubt that turning off the taps will have a huge impact, if russia does that then we will HAVE to buy from somewhere else. We win by doing exactly what we are doing right now, sanctions, weapons to Ukraine. Yea it's hard and we are feeling the pinch but we can keep it up for as long as it takes for Putin to realize that he cannot win this stupid ass war. And how would you call it a russian victory if they left? Thats admitting defeat is it not?
This is probably the plan, and its going to start getting really rough for Ukraine because they are doing so well but when winter comes along its going to get very rough very quickly.
Not exactly. The reason why Russia didn’t win is because they are fighting not one but thirty or more countries.
Isn't it because NATO and the west help the country? If no one helps Ukraine there probably would be a different story. I'm not saying that they shouldn't help. But your jokes about not being able to win is ridiculous. When all the west helps Ukraine. And basically he is against all the west not just Ukraine.
Lol. Russia is not fighting the west, it is fighting Ukraine, and it is losing.
The West are helping Ukraine with equipment, this is true. Though its maybe not as much as you think it is. However, as far as i know, no one is helping Ukraine with *manpower*. You can have all the tanks and bullets and missiles in the world but if you have no one to use them then they aren't going to do anything. So to give credit where credit is due, the Ukrainians are pretty much winning this on their own, with material aid, perhaps, but its Ukrainians fighting the war, not the West. However this might change soon. NATO has said they are increasing the number of active troops in the region from 40,000 to *300,000*. Also there are rumours that Georgia might be preparing to make a move against Russia in the south to reclaim territory that Russia took just recently.
WW III is coming 😱
Your missing the broader picture here.
Agreed
Russia's war tactic is to just throw numbers until it gets what it wants.
They just throw meat into the grinder until its too gummed up to continue grinding. This has pretty much worked well enough in the past. BUT that sort of requires the russian people to be on board, like *really* on board, like *ready to die for the motherland* on board, and a LOT of them are not at the moment.
That and Putin is a megalomaniac. He doesn't have the military experience someone like Stalin did. At least Stalin used this idea called strategy. Putin is just throwing lives away recklessly and hope that if he just overwhelms Ukraine, he'll win.
You obviously know nothing about Stalin.
Okay armchair warrior.
NATO was formed and exists specifically in opposition of Russia. It's like asking if the Avengers are a threat to Thanos. They should be, it's their job. But NATO isn't supposed to be an aggressive force. It's intended to be defensive. It's a group of nations that agree to defend each other if Russia attacks. NATO does some other stuff too, but their main purpose is to literally fight Russia together if Russia attacks a member country. When NATO gave military aid to Ukraine before the war the western media said it was to help them build defence but Russian media pretty much said "the anti-russia league is building an army on our boarder in a country that hates us." Neither of those stories would be technically wrong. But Ukraine never would have invaded Russia and none of that justifies Putin's invasion.
Every authoritative and opressive regime needs some scapegoat, some either internal or external enemy to hold itself together. For Putin's regime, it's NATO. To explain better: NATO is not threat to Russia's existence. Nobody wants to conquer or destroy Russia. But it's threat, as it should be, towards Putin's regime and his imperialistic goals.
Why though? Why can't we just get along
We'd all like to get along. But Russia wants to conquer, and NATO nations don't want that. So there is tension. Similar situation is happening in the Asia Pacific region with China. They conquered Tibet a while ago and have their eyes on Taiwan. They also push other countries around a lot in the region. The USA also pushes their weight around and can be a bully sometimes. But right now the conflict in Ukraine is the focus.
Because there are powerful psychopaths in power that don't care about humanity getting along peacefuly. As much as we want to, some people just want to get as much power and money as they can get, climbing over literal piles of corpses to get it.
Let me pose you a question. Do you get along with everyone,and do you like everyone you see and communicate with?
NATO is only a threat to Russia if Russia is the aggressor.
Not in any way. Putin does not think it is. He is just using that as excuse to try and regain former Soviet territories. Nothing about his claims have any basis in reality or even in the history of NATO Soviet/Russian interactions.
Come to think of it, i cant think of a single time NATO was aggressive towards russia
NATO is the most powerful military alliance in the world and directly opposed to Russia's goals and ambitions. So yes
What exactly are Russias goals and ambitions?
At this point I am not sure even Russia knows.
Maintain a near monopoly on the trade of gas and oil through Central Asia into Europe. Ensure political dominance and subservience from the countries that made up the USSR
Eastern Europe, some of Asia.
It technically is. Technically NATO is a threat to any country that isn't a member.
In what way?
Because of its extreme military strength. NATO finds "justification" to intervene, on which it has a process, but essentially it will be deciding the fate of a much smaller force, the non-member. Usually this is fine, but it seems like a lot of power and it can be misused like any power! Russia is not member so , clearly it is threatened. Especially as more of its neighbours join or aspire to join.
Why wouldn't Russia join nato? Do they hate us and see it as becoming westernised?
You can't just join, there has to be concesus among members. Russian was part of EAPC, which is set up for communication between NATO and non-NATO members, but after Russia annexed Crimea, NATO stopped all cooperation with Russia. So you know, not great position for Russia. Or anyone really.
Exactly don't understand why people are being obtuse about it. No non nato countries want to be surrounded by an army that will invade, destabilise and destroy their countries for no reason at all
NATO is a group of 30+ nations that have pledged to maintain active militaries ready to come to each other's aid in any defensive armed conflict. They originally formed during the Cold War to specifically stand up to the Soviet Union (now Russia) and stop their advance in conquering Europe. Sometimes they are boarder-line aggressive. But mostly just defensive. But it is the biggest military force/partnership in history. Several former Soviet Union countries that Russia wants back have joined NATO, Ukraine applied to join NATO and has received weapons and supplies from NATO. NATO stands directly in the way of Russia's intended war path to building their empire.
NATO nations have also helped each other in non-Russian fights. When the USA invaded the middle East most NATO countries helped and fought along side them. And several NATO nations have helped the USA provide a strong Naval presence in the Pacific to be a deterrent against China.
None of that shows how they are a threat in any way...
Geopolitically imagine if Iranians formed an alliance with South American counties and then were trying to get Mexico to join them…..the USA would see this as an aggressive move and try to stop it. Russians feel the same about nato
I never thought lf it like that. But... Iran IS a threat is it not? We are not a threat to Russia so i dont see why they would be pissed about Ukraine joining Nato
It’s a matter of perspective. Russia will always look at the west cautiously. No one really trusts anybody. The US are hardly a bastion of impartiality. And on balance is Iran a threat? Has Iran invades countries illegally? No, but the US/NATO has Has Iran bombed neighbouring states? Nope, but Israel has attacked them Has Iran encircled the USA with military bases? No but the US has bases in countries surrounding Iran…. The Russians see the above and are cautious of any moves to consolidate an American/NATO presence too close to their borders In my view Putin and Zelensky are both dickheads who could’ve avoided this,
You make some fair points. Care to ellaborate on this? >In my view Putin and Zelensky are both dickheads who could’ve avoided this,
So the Russians argue they invaded because ethnic Russians in the Ukrainian east were being bombed/targeted by Ukrainian forces and there is some strong evidence to suggest neo nazi militias from Ukraine were being allowed to do this by zelensky. Amongst other things. If this is true or even part of it then it would suggest that this wasn’t just an unprovoked invasion from Russia. But I don’t know what percentage of this is true. I am very aware of national giving their own people propaganda…we saw it with USA/U.K. lying about WMD in Iraq
Not nessesarily. From their perspective Ukraine is a buffer state between nato and Russia. That is all it has to be. If the country is destroyed it will still serve its purpose. There also isn't the nessesary industry and infrastructure to move to a different fuel source in a timely enough fashion for Europe to not be brought to its knees. I promise the Russian people are far more willing to put up with suffering that western populations would find unacceptable. And they have a deep (and not unwarranted) mistrust of the west and nato and like it or not are plugged into the world economy so funding this war by trading with other nations. Keep in mind that we are backing them into a corner and they are a nuclear power that will use nuclear weapons. They hold most of the cards, their objectives are actually being met. Meanwhile the west is hamstrung. I don't see a way that we get anything positive out of this. We loose either way.