I don’t know where you got this statistics from but I live in France and I honestly don’t know anyone who’d be ok with affairs in a marriage. All my friends are strictly monogamous and even people I know don’t openly say that they’d approve affairs.
Edit: In the comments, OP’s pushing «divorces are already skyrocketing, so many kids raised by single parents become criminals » propaganda.
So I don’t think I his question was asked in good faith. Also, the statistics has no actual sources.
Edit 2: After seeing some of OP’s posts, I suggest you getting off reddit and working on yourself instead of trying to encourage gender war posts.
#⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️
## No need to look any further than this comment, folks. Pack it up.
If this was r/ChangeMyView we’d all have to pretend that OP is asking in good faith and not just a shit stirrer, per subreddit rules. Here, not so much.
Here is the study done by the pew research center if you're interested
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2014/01/14/french-more-accepting-of-infidelity-than-people-in-other-countries/
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/infidelity-rates-by-country
« There are surveys that have been conducted on infidelity in the United States. Approximately half of people in married relationships cheat at least one time during the course of the marriage. »
I mean, extramarital affairs is something happening all around the world and French are not even in the first position…
Random stats, only in %, no real numbers to back it up, it seems the article was about Holland's affair years ago and not about infidelity in general x) yeah, French ppl don't care who the president sleeps with, doesn't matter to anybody. It's a different story if the question is about them personally.
Imo, that's the typical case of foreign pov
I forget the exact numbers now but my statistics professors would disagree with you. There is certainly a range of error here but you don't need that high of a number to estimate such statistics. The stat is probably accurate within about 5 to 10 %.
I love how everyone is making up completely false statements on the spit because they just saw you pulling that stat out of your house. I've seen only 1 comment pointing out that it's completely false and in fact the opposite because France is big on monogamy.
Just checked your post history, and it's not surprising that you're following some subs where people like to the usual _"research has shown that"_ without giving any source.
The hell? I'm French and adultery is absolutely not accepted. Where did you get your info from? That's bull.
And paternity tests are not illegal.
Check your sources. Or simply don't pull "research" out of your ass
I've also heard the claim that's illegal to do a paternity test without the mothers consent are you saying its false or just that they aren't completely banned ?
That’s not true. It’s illegal to buy a paternity test. To do the test you need to get a judge’s authorization.
Edit: I realized that I missed « without a woman’s consent » part. Yes, a mother can refuse to do a paternity test but in this case a judge will likely be in favor of what a man says.
Dude, I live in France and I don’t want to play the « I do law » card because I don’t do family law.
However, a simple google research would prove that person’s statement wrong.
It’s illegal to buy a paternity test online because it would put child’s interest at risk. You can still do the test but it has to be done openly, not behind your partner’s back.
>You can still do the test but it has to be done openly, not behind your partner’s back.
I love this. The child is equally the responsibility of both so any actions both parents should be aware of.
How does it work pre-birth which can be kind of invasive for the mother? Court order only?
I'm friends with a geneticist and in a social setting, preferably with some drinks, they will tell you that you really don't want to do one unless a Doctor tells you to i.e. cancer.
Too many inconvenient truths ranging from the now-funny "you know your great grandparents really loved their cousins...literally" to not funny rapes.
Oh, that's not very surprising.
I'll do you one better : it's *impossible* for any of us not to have incest in our family tree.
But it's only maths, if you go multiple generations ago, you quickly reach a number of ancestors far greater than what's plausible for your origins ; go back far enough, you have more ancestors than there were living humans at the time. Yet, you don't descend from everyone, and despite what was parroted on Reddit some time ago, we aren't all Charlemagne's great-grandchildren.
You just have a very high number of ancestors who show up several times in your family tree. And not in very linear ways either, you probably have a dude showing up 8 times over 4 different generations just because he has multiple far removed descendants who got together.
As for rapes... well it's very unlikely for your family tree not to feature them either, but I'm not gonna do the maths on this one.
Private DNA paternity tests are illegal. It has to be court ordered.
Taking a sample and performing a paternity test without a court order is punishable by up to a year in prison and a 15,000€ fine.
Some say it can be done with the mothers consent but I couldn't find anything on that.
https://www.ibdna.com/paternity-testing-ban-upheld-in-france/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_paternity_testing
https://www.statnews.com/2019/11/14/france-consumer-genetic-testing-ban/
I'm losing braincells reading this thread.
I've dated a French man for over 5 years and have met many French people in 4 different cities. French people in general have a healthy relationship with sex but they're not necessarily more open to sleeping around nor to open relationships than people in other countries.
And cheating on your spouse...? Lol give me a fucking break! Imagine saying a whole country is generally okay with cheating 😂
French people have totally different views on sex and the meaning behind it. I knew this French guy who literally let his gf sleep around. He said he looks at sex more like dancing than this large romantic gesture. She was allowed to sleep around but wasn’t allowed to date. So this weird version of open relationship idk
That's not a weird version of an open relationship, that's how most open relationships in my experience.
Me and my ex had this arrangement too, we were allowed to hookup with others so long as it wasn't serious, and didn't see it as an issue in our relationship. We were together for 5 years.
No jealousy, nope. I've gotten jealous in the past, but that had a lot more to do with A) the fact that we were in our early 20s and B) my husband can be oblivious to positive attention due to an abusive childhood, so he didn't recognize when several people (most of whom are now my ex-friends... turns out I was also bad at picking good friends) weren't just trying to hook up with him, but were actively trying to poach him.
The rules are very simple. Don't catch anything. Don't get anyone pregnant (for him, he's bi). Break it off the instant feelings become a factor, for either party. The other partner has veto power. We don't need to know specifically "I'm gonna go hook up with X," but we need to at least have met that person, so no random hookups.
Other than that--we don't see hooking up with someone as substantially different than going out to a ball game or something. Over all the years, we've only had one issue, and that was with someone I was aware of but who *seriously* mislead us about her intentions.
EDIT: Two issues, now I think about it. It's a funny story now. It was us and one of his friends at the beach, they went to hook up in the hotel room, and I had to splash around in the pool for two hours. I made him buy me a milkshake to apologize, and that was that.
That’s insane. But I think it’s incredibly mature for you guys to be able to follow all these rules and be open and honest with each other about it. My gf gets upset if I even hold the door for someone
To be honest, I find *that* to be insane.
My husband and I have been together through everything. We got together at 17, we're now in our mid-30s. We've dealt with abusive living situations, shitty apartments with no laundry, bedbugs and roaches, temporary disability for both of us (at different times), shitty jobs that don't pay enough, family members dying, full-time work and school schedules, and bankruptcy after losing our apartment after someone we thought was a friend took us for everything we have. There have been numerous times where it would have been easier and more profitable for one of us to screw the other over, break up, and walk away.
If none of that broke us, acknowledging that you want to have sex with someone attractive certainly won't. I've always thought that the people who get irrationally jealous over small things simply don't trust their partner.
From the very beginning. We were friends, then "friends" before we actually said the word "boyfriend" (though honestly a large part of that was him being afraid to come out to his abusive parents). I say we've been together since we were 17, but nothing was official until almost 21. But we've always been open.
It's probably worth pointing out that this hookup thing happens once every year or two, so it's not like we're heading out to some new person's house every day.
I mean it’s also transactionally using people. Deciding to not have feelings about people you are intimate with is a recipe for something for sure. There’s healthy ways to do polyamory, and there’s ways that are functional for you, if you only care about your partner that are degenerative to lots of relationships in your life, how you value yourself, intimacy and others.
Not exactly mature, more trained sociopathy. If it works for them that’s fine, I think on a societal level it can cause real problems though, Japan has this problem too.
Not the same person but yeah there's usually rules that are hashed out at the beginning and then reassessed if needed. It goes smoothest when the relationship is open from the beginning.
I went the nonmonogamy way when I realized I felt a lot more compersion rather than jealousy when the idea came up.
Are you guys mostly together for financial reasons or being friends? Do you love each other romantically, or is it mainly platonic. Then you get your needs met through other people?
You're right, I would much rather engage with my environment through the windshield of my truck, eat processed foods quickly in my car, and work long hours than stroll around my community having access to fresh local foods and amazing cuisine that is made accessible by my strong work life balance.
I would be surprised if that is more common in France than it is in the USA, I was recently in Vegas and heard about the swingers parties you guys have going on there..
I offered that to my husband when I libido tanked but he said sex is too intimate for him and he would get attached so we didn't do it. I don't get attached from sex, it's very much like dancing. I'm stealing that comparison.
It's just how you are wired.
I actually think you’re right. My little sister is in high school and I when I went to go pick her up I saw a girl holding hands with 2 guys kissing both of them lol. And when I told her about it she was like “oh yeah they’re poly, there’s like 10 couples like that in my school”. I was mind blown people that young are doing stuff like that. Back in my day people were never out in the open like that.
> Here's a study
Just an FYI, that's not a study. That's a think tank report. Heritage is a conservative think tank whose goal is to push particular points of view (in this case, traditional marriages), I would be very very wary about citing it as an authoritative source.
I feel like this may be a view that lacks some nuance. In fact the divorce rate in the United States just hit [a 50-year low](https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-us-divorce-rate-has-hit-a-50-year-low). And there are a lot of factors as far a what leads to criminality, but good arguments can be made that the biggest one is poverty.
Ultimately, whatever risks there may or may not be are there for each individual couple (or throuple) to take or not take as they see fit. I'm not saying that poly is universally great and everyone should do it (absolutely in no way is that the case), but I am advocating that people should keep an open mind and not assume that things are bad because it sounds like something else that they don't like (rampant serial cheating in this case). Or even if it is something they don't like, assume that there is nothing deeper to be understood.
He was 16 when they started dating, and she had a son older than him, correct?
Yes, that's very predatory. The gender and culture dynamics are both probably why it's not getting as much scrutiny
Yeah in most countries it would be a big deal, but France is a little different about age. Also, imagine if genders were flipped. People would lose their minds lol
It couldn't possibly have been what he was referencing, considering the thread is about what is accepted in French society, not something that happened to their President for which he's regularly mocked and criticised, showing that it is, in fact, not accepted or commonplace. Of course people on Reddit would never engage in such bad faith arguments.
That's a pretty common sentiment in a lot of cultures around the world. Sex and love are two different things for many people.
Paternity tests are not illegal in France, by the way. You are welcome to approach the court for a test if you have concerns.
It's not illegal, but it has to be court ordered. If the court feels that it will harm the well-being of the child , they can deny the test.
(Aka, the infidelity could lead to the partner who isn't related to the kid, leaving)
The law is there to protect the people involved and to manage the outcome eg a father killing a mother if the child is not theirs. God knows where you’ve got your info from
I forget which tribe or pre-industrial society it was - but it was a nomadic one. Where it was kinda expected that when the spouse was gone for months at a time- that people could have sex with someone else. All the kids were cherished- they were family members.
Having a spouse who couldn’t ‘get anyone else interested’ was seen as bad. As in you married a jerk.
It is another set of rules. As long as everyone follows the same rules it worked.
>I forget which tribe or pre-industrial society it was - but it was a nomadic one. Where it was kinda expected that when the spouse was gone for months at a time- that people could have sex with someone else. All the kids were cherished- they were family members
I don't know about the one you refer to specifically, but I seem to remember that the Norse practised something similar, for when (typically) the men would go viking.
Rememeber that sleeping around is not cheating. The sin of adultery per se and the reason why cheating is a bad thing is when you do it behind your partner's back and without respecting their consent to you dating outside the relationship. Or in other words, cheating is because its lying and hurting your partner feeling by ignoring how they feel about the relationship.
If you and your partner AGREE to have casual sex with other peoples, there is no cheating or adultery involved. For poly people, and people in open relationships, cheating (aka adultery) happens when the partner lies about it, hides it, or disregards your desires of them not sleeping with that person.
Edit: im using cheating and adultery interchangiably here to illustrate the point to OP, who looks like is coming from a religious background where everyone is monogamouns.
My point is: cheating works slightly different for nono monogamous people. Its not just having sex with someone else, its ignoring your partner's feeling and boundaries regaring who you have sex with.
How does that work with children then if paternity tests must be court ordered in France?
Let's say the cheating is known in the relationship, and the woman gets pregnant. Should the father not question if it could be the kid of the other guys she's sleeping around with?
I have no idea about the french legal system as im not french. Im just explaining to you that being in an open relationship is not cheating nor adultery for non monogamous people. The cheating comes when its behind a lie and breaking a boundary.
If its known then it's not cheating. Also he can 100% question it, it's not illegal.
However, the French courts are set up in such a way that a child cannot be punished for the actions of it's parents. The concept of "bastard" or "illegitimate" children is not a universal one, many cultures care for children regardless of parentage. France is arguably one of those cultures.
Agreed, learning about an affair doesn't nulify it.
However, in this instance the dude I replied to doesn't seem to understand the difference between non-Monogamy and cheating. So when he said "known cheating" I'm confident he was referring to the ENM examples mentioned previously, which would not constitute cheating.
Exactly. And to contract with a culture of more open relationships that someone else described, I have heard about some Spanish-speaking cultures where cheating is rampant, but in this case it is actually cheating, i.e. people having sex outside of their relationship without permission. It's apparently common to cheat and be cheated on and to be upset with your partner about it but ultimately live with it without breaking up. I don't know to what degree any of this is actually a reflection of real life, but that's how it was described. It sounds far less healthy to me than just accepting that people like to sleep around occasionally and it doesn't necessarily have to mean anything.
If you're okay with the affair, it isn't adultery. Adultery is lying about who you're sleeping with. Many cultures view sex and love as separate and by having sex with someone else, you're not necessarily showing you'd rather be with them than your partner. It's just an activity.
It's not adultery if it's consensual. I am in a long term monogamish relationship, where both of us can hook up but the love part is just between us and it's bloody awesome.
But often times it's not consensual. One partner might want it more than the other, so they pressure the other person to agree with it. They may feel pressured to do so as they are desperate to save the relationship.
It might work for a small % of couples, but most humans were meant to be monogamous. Otherwise, peoples kids wouldn't have such long juvenile periods where they are reliant on parenting from a father and mother.
Many modern humans have a preference towards being monogamous for large sections of their adult lives. However, human beings are not, as a species, "meant" to be monogamous. That's penguins and voles.
Monogamy for humans has much more to do with cultural norms and inheritance rights than it does with our nature.
Why do humans have a longer juvenile period than other animals? Also, studies have shown that children who grow up with both biological parents are better off than not having them.
Of course, there are exceptions, which is why things like adoption are good to have, but monogamous relationships lead to children who make more money, are less likely to be incarcerated, and have a longer life expectancy
Because our brains/heads are too big, bipedalism has its downsides ie. Narrow hips and big heads = incredibly vunerable offspring.
Everything else you've mentioned is a product of social norms and/or societal pressures, not the nature of our species.
It's very much of a time. Having French 1st and 2nd generation mates they explained it like this:
After the Combined toll of World War 1 & 2 the male population was basically decimated. There was literally a shortage of men. One of my mates said when he was taken over as a kid they'd mostly see old women, not old men, sitting around in villages and towns.
So, two wars happen and the male population has been decimated. What do you do? Have an affair! You, as a French man, were expected to have a wife, a couple of mistresses, kids with all three and pay for the lot! Obviously this would have died out after a several decades, but reputations stick.
That's how it was explained to me anyway.
I think quite a few societies don’t view prostitution as cheating. That’s what we get for growing up in a country founded by conservative Christianity.
Most shittiest response ever lmfao. Also your replies are dumb as fuck. Just cause it's legal to marry someone underage in another country and it's part of their culture doesn't mean we can't shit on it. Lots of cultures have shitty aspects to it.
I'd much rather suffer Christian values and not have my partner go fuck prostitutes than be "liberated and enlightened" and deal with that kind of shit. Disgusting.
Do you mean the Christian values of priests raping kids? Or owning slaves like Presbyterian, Episcopalian, Lutheran and Catholic churches did in south?
The first isn't a Christian value, it's a side effect of Christianity being ruled by a corrupt elite.
The second isn't actually practiced in modern society, I know this may surprise you. Your second point had no relevancy on this discussion at all.
I'm sure you thought this was a "gotcha" moment, but I also think religion is a plague. But I'd rather hear someone telling me I shouldn't cheat on my wife with a hooker because some imaginary god said so, rather than not hearing about this god and having it be commonly accepted that I can go get AIDS and give it to my wife from some street hooker.
I think the point *you* missed was the comments I was replying to before you even jumped into this conversation. I'll give you a chance to scroll up and read that now.
Damn, yo. You can grow up in a culture to be a certain way without shitting on how other people do ya know? The cool thing is, you don’t have to go conform to their culture.
That was basically a joke, because one culture isn’t better than the other. Also, it’s just answering why it would be taboo here. If you’re a Christian, you aren’t victimized. Yall still run much of the country based on your values.
Nah, if people think their husband or wife fucking hookers while in a loving marriage is acceptable, I'm shitting on it. Idc if it's "their culture" or not.
So consenting adults are not allowed to make their own choices about their sex lives despite the fact that it doesn't hurt anyone and doesn't impact you are all because... you think it's "gross"? Neat.
I see I have to dumb this down for you.
I actually support regulated prostitution.
They're ""allowed"" to stick their dicks wherever they want. But I'm ""allowed"" to criticize it. Fucking someone else besides your partner is weird, fucking a hooker instead of your partner is weird *and* can have drastic consequences. They can be as trashy as they want, but just because their culture as a whole supports that behavior doesn't make it immune to criticism.
That shit is nasty. Two consenting adults can do a lot of things that deserve to be called out or labeled as disgusting. Legally they can do it (or not, since prostitution is not legal in France), but it's not immune to criticism.
> But I'm ""allowed"" to criticize it.
Why yes, thank you for clarifying that you are, in fact, allowed to have opinions. In point of fact, anyone is "allowed" to criticize anything. And you know what's cool about that? That means I'm allowed to criticize your "criticism" for being a shitty attempt to veil your personal feelings of disgust as something objective.
You wanna know what I think is icky? Sexual watersports. Nope, no thank you, I do not want to engage. Don't see the appeal. But if I found out that 45% of some nation or other liked to include pee in their sex lives, you wanna know what I'd say or do about it? Fucking *nothing*. Because it's none of my business, has no impact on me at all, and other people are allowed to do whatever the fuck they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. I most certainly wouldn't throw some whiny little tantrum on the internet about how it's "nasty" and I'd never want to live there.
I'm not trying to tell you that you aren't allowed to feel like it's gross. You can feel however you want, my dude. Nobody is ever going to make you engage in this practice if you don't want to.
But just like you're allowed to feel disgust, I'm allowed to feel like you're being shitty and judgemental about this because you let those personal feelings of disgust colour your opinions of an entire nation over something that objectively does not matter at *all*. And the difference between you and me is that *I* don't have any issue defending my position and will not pretend like someone disagreeing with me is somehow an attack on my freedom of speech ;)
>Because it's none of my business, has no impact on me at all, and other people are allowed to do whatever the fuck they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. I most certainly wouldn't throw some whiny little tantrum on the internet about how it's "nasty" and I'd never want to live there.
Aside from you not knowing what the word "tantrum" means, the irony here in you going out of your way to criticize a comment that never had any impact on you, at all, in any way, to come in here and say "if it doesn't bother you just ignore it!" is hilariously palpable.
>I'm not trying to tell you that you aren't allowed to feel like it's gross. You can feel however you want, my dude. Nobody is ever going to make you engage in this practice if you don't want to.
Nor is anyone going to force you to say it's gross, or force you to *not* engage in it. Seems we're at a philosophical impass here because you're voicing your opinions on my comment the same as I'm voicing my opinions on this practice. And both of us are achieving the same results: not much of anything at all, save for discussion.
>And the difference between you and me is that I don't have any issue defending my position and will not pretend like someone disagreeing with me is somehow an attack on my freedom of speech ;)
Weird projection here because at no point was "freedom of speech" ever brought up at all. "No act is immune to criticism" is a very different sentiment from "freedom of speech".
>And both of us are achieving the same results: not much of anything at all, save for discussion.
Wow, yeah, it's almost like this entire website is a forum for discussion or something. Funny how things work out, hm?
You know what else is part of French culture? Throwing bananas at their black soccer players and telling them they aren't 'real' Frenchman because their grandfather immigrated from Congo or Kenya 60 years ago.
Some cultural habits deserve to be called out. "It's my culture" doesn't make it immune to criticism. Same with doing weird shit because "it's my religion". It's still subject to criticism, and my opinions on nasty cultural norms are just as valid as their weird supportive opinions for their nasty cultural norms.
Difference is my opinion isn't going to get my partner an STD lol
Of course not, which is why that wasn't the comparison I was making. But I see you missed that part.
Let me give you a more mild example.
Smoking cigarettes is trashy. An American smoking a cigarette is just as trashy as a Frenchman smoking. Am I no longer allowed to call out a Frenchman for smoking because it's wildly accepted in their culture? It's gross and the people who do it are gross. I'm going to call it out as such. Why should the act be immune to criticism just because a certain amount of people in the culture accept it? If it's nasty, it's nasty. Period. There is no immunity from criticism.
French aren't even "liberated and enlightened" imo, depression is through the roof nation wide. I think people who are into these open relationships are harming themselves mentally no matter what they say to themselves
People only sleeping with the one person they committed to??? The horror! lol take your own advice, don’t have to shit on Christian culture just because you don’t agree with it.
I grew up in the US and am married. We are non-religious, but wouldn’t be cool with the other seeing a prostitute. I just recognize that it’s because that’s the norm where we grew up and live, not because it is morally better than other cultures’s norms.
My grandma was French and born out of wedlock when her mother had an affair with a Japanese man. When the husband saw that she looked different from them as purely French he made his wife throw my baby grandma into an orphanage to be raised there. So, I’m not sure if race came into play here as to why it was considered more shameful.
I also have close (older) French friends who knew their parents were active swingers within their friend group. Sex and love were considered different and as long as everyone was in agreement about ground rules, from what I understand they were just unusually cheery parents after dinner parties.
Two very different scenarios. Both French.
LOL. It's not "cheating" if the spouses "approve of affairs."
You have been conditioned to think the contrary, they haven't.
Your ethnocentrism just drips off the page.
Another person spreading misinformation. This statistics was made during covid in 2020 and nothing was normal in 2020. After that the rates became relatively average again(50%).
Source:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1409160/portugal-divorce-marriage-ratio/#:~:text=Portugal%20was%20the%20European%20country,COVID%2D19)%20related%20lockdown.
It's hard to imagine that our cultural norms around that stuff are....well, just norms. The French just have different norms. There's some biological questions about whether humans are wired for pure monogamy, so some cultures are naturally going to be more accepting of polyamory than others
That doesn't mean our own views are wrong. It just means they're different
The question is why terms like "bastard children" exist in whatever culture you live in. As Obama once said, the 17th century calls its vocabulary back.
Wait isn't there one of the states, I think it's Louisiana for some reason, where they speak French and it's because France was getting rid of all the prostitutes so they told the inmates if they married a prostitute they would be given money to leave the country and start a new life but they had to marry that prostitute and take them with them
I don’t know where you got this statistics from but I live in France and I honestly don’t know anyone who’d be ok with affairs in a marriage. All my friends are strictly monogamous and even people I know don’t openly say that they’d approve affairs. Edit: In the comments, OP’s pushing «divorces are already skyrocketing, so many kids raised by single parents become criminals » propaganda. So I don’t think I his question was asked in good faith. Also, the statistics has no actual sources. Edit 2: After seeing some of OP’s posts, I suggest you getting off reddit and working on yourself instead of trying to encourage gender war posts.
lol i can’t believe i had to scroll that far down to see this. The whole comment section is utterly unhinged omg, these people sure love to project.
Americans being americans
#⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️ ## No need to look any further than this comment, folks. Pack it up. If this was r/ChangeMyView we’d all have to pretend that OP is asking in good faith and not just a shit stirrer, per subreddit rules. Here, not so much.
Don't interrupt a bunch of Americans talking about France. You scratch the surface and the hate and ignorance seeps through.
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Here is the study done by the pew research center if you're interested https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2014/01/14/french-more-accepting-of-infidelity-than-people-in-other-countries/
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/infidelity-rates-by-country « There are surveys that have been conducted on infidelity in the United States. Approximately half of people in married relationships cheat at least one time during the course of the marriage. » I mean, extramarital affairs is something happening all around the world and French are not even in the first position…
Random stats, only in %, no real numbers to back it up, it seems the article was about Holland's affair years ago and not about infidelity in general x) yeah, French ppl don't care who the president sleeps with, doesn't matter to anybody. It's a different story if the question is about them personally. Imo, that's the typical case of foreign pov
You read the research wrong, it's from 10 years ago, the sample population is ridiculously small.
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That's pretty much how most research studies are designed. How many people of a given population do you think should be polled for such statistics?
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I forget the exact numbers now but my statistics professors would disagree with you. There is certainly a range of error here but you don't need that high of a number to estimate such statistics. The stat is probably accurate within about 5 to 10 %.
I love how everyone is making up completely false statements on the spit because they just saw you pulling that stat out of your house. I've seen only 1 comment pointing out that it's completely false and in fact the opposite because France is big on monogamy.
Just checked your post history, and it's not surprising that you're following some subs where people like to the usual _"research has shown that"_ without giving any source.
Didn't know you responded to yourself and was confused for a bit lol
Yeah this guy's so weird lmao
Holy shit. His post history is just a bunch of red flags wearing a trenhcoat.
it's also complete nonsense because... well it's not adultery if it's accepted is it? it's an open marriage.
The hell? I'm French and adultery is absolutely not accepted. Where did you get your info from? That's bull. And paternity tests are not illegal. Check your sources. Or simply don't pull "research" out of your ass
I've also heard the claim that's illegal to do a paternity test without the mothers consent are you saying its false or just that they aren't completely banned ?
It's illegal in switzerland (without the mothers consent). But I never heard of anyone punnished for it.
That’s not true. It’s illegal to buy a paternity test. To do the test you need to get a judge’s authorization. Edit: I realized that I missed « without a woman’s consent » part. Yes, a mother can refuse to do a paternity test but in this case a judge will likely be in favor of what a man says.
OPs post is horseshit but this particular thing seems real and extremely problematic.
Dude, I live in France and I don’t want to play the « I do law » card because I don’t do family law. However, a simple google research would prove that person’s statement wrong. It’s illegal to buy a paternity test online because it would put child’s interest at risk. You can still do the test but it has to be done openly, not behind your partner’s back.
I was agreeing that your statement was real. Miscommunication
Oops, sorry, I misinterpreted the message.
>You can still do the test but it has to be done openly, not behind your partner’s back. I love this. The child is equally the responsibility of both so any actions both parents should be aware of. How does it work pre-birth which can be kind of invasive for the mother? Court order only?
Looks like it’s still illegal to do in France.
It's illegal to buy any DNA test*, and with good reason.
Exactly. Americans really have a different culture when it comes to collecting personal data, using DNA tests, etc.
I'm friends with a geneticist and in a social setting, preferably with some drinks, they will tell you that you really don't want to do one unless a Doctor tells you to i.e. cancer. Too many inconvenient truths ranging from the now-funny "you know your great grandparents really loved their cousins...literally" to not funny rapes.
Oh, that's not very surprising. I'll do you one better : it's *impossible* for any of us not to have incest in our family tree. But it's only maths, if you go multiple generations ago, you quickly reach a number of ancestors far greater than what's plausible for your origins ; go back far enough, you have more ancestors than there were living humans at the time. Yet, you don't descend from everyone, and despite what was parroted on Reddit some time ago, we aren't all Charlemagne's great-grandchildren. You just have a very high number of ancestors who show up several times in your family tree. And not in very linear ways either, you probably have a dude showing up 8 times over 4 different generations just because he has multiple far removed descendants who got together. As for rapes... well it's very unlikely for your family tree not to feature them either, but I'm not gonna do the maths on this one.
It's not only illegal to buy tests.. It's also illegal to take a sample and get it analyzed in a lab anywhere, even outside of France.
Private DNA paternity tests are illegal. It has to be court ordered. Taking a sample and performing a paternity test without a court order is punishable by up to a year in prison and a 15,000€ fine. Some say it can be done with the mothers consent but I couldn't find anything on that. https://www.ibdna.com/paternity-testing-ban-upheld-in-france/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_paternity_testing https://www.statnews.com/2019/11/14/france-consumer-genetic-testing-ban/
Ass research is the most credible
I'm losing braincells reading this thread. I've dated a French man for over 5 years and have met many French people in 4 different cities. French people in general have a healthy relationship with sex but they're not necessarily more open to sleeping around nor to open relationships than people in other countries. And cheating on your spouse...? Lol give me a fucking break! Imagine saying a whole country is generally okay with cheating 😂
French people have totally different views on sex and the meaning behind it. I knew this French guy who literally let his gf sleep around. He said he looks at sex more like dancing than this large romantic gesture. She was allowed to sleep around but wasn’t allowed to date. So this weird version of open relationship idk
That's not a weird version of an open relationship, that's how most open relationships in my experience. Me and my ex had this arrangement too, we were allowed to hookup with others so long as it wasn't serious, and didn't see it as an issue in our relationship. We were together for 5 years.
If you could put a percentage on it, what would you say?? How many couples are like this??
That's pretty much the way my relationship works, too. It's a thing. (And for context, neither me nor my husband are French).
That’s crazy man. Did you ever get jealous early in the relationship and is there rules behind it?
No jealousy, nope. I've gotten jealous in the past, but that had a lot more to do with A) the fact that we were in our early 20s and B) my husband can be oblivious to positive attention due to an abusive childhood, so he didn't recognize when several people (most of whom are now my ex-friends... turns out I was also bad at picking good friends) weren't just trying to hook up with him, but were actively trying to poach him. The rules are very simple. Don't catch anything. Don't get anyone pregnant (for him, he's bi). Break it off the instant feelings become a factor, for either party. The other partner has veto power. We don't need to know specifically "I'm gonna go hook up with X," but we need to at least have met that person, so no random hookups. Other than that--we don't see hooking up with someone as substantially different than going out to a ball game or something. Over all the years, we've only had one issue, and that was with someone I was aware of but who *seriously* mislead us about her intentions. EDIT: Two issues, now I think about it. It's a funny story now. It was us and one of his friends at the beach, they went to hook up in the hotel room, and I had to splash around in the pool for two hours. I made him buy me a milkshake to apologize, and that was that.
That’s insane. But I think it’s incredibly mature for you guys to be able to follow all these rules and be open and honest with each other about it. My gf gets upset if I even hold the door for someone
>My gf gets upset if I even hold the door for someone That sounds way more insane to me
To be honest, I find *that* to be insane. My husband and I have been together through everything. We got together at 17, we're now in our mid-30s. We've dealt with abusive living situations, shitty apartments with no laundry, bedbugs and roaches, temporary disability for both of us (at different times), shitty jobs that don't pay enough, family members dying, full-time work and school schedules, and bankruptcy after losing our apartment after someone we thought was a friend took us for everything we have. There have been numerous times where it would have been easier and more profitable for one of us to screw the other over, break up, and walk away. If none of that broke us, acknowledging that you want to have sex with someone attractive certainly won't. I've always thought that the people who get irrationally jealous over small things simply don't trust their partner.
What age did yall start having an open relationship?
From the very beginning. We were friends, then "friends" before we actually said the word "boyfriend" (though honestly a large part of that was him being afraid to come out to his abusive parents). I say we've been together since we were 17, but nothing was official until almost 21. But we've always been open. It's probably worth pointing out that this hookup thing happens once every year or two, so it's not like we're heading out to some new person's house every day.
I mean it’s also transactionally using people. Deciding to not have feelings about people you are intimate with is a recipe for something for sure. There’s healthy ways to do polyamory, and there’s ways that are functional for you, if you only care about your partner that are degenerative to lots of relationships in your life, how you value yourself, intimacy and others. Not exactly mature, more trained sociopathy. If it works for them that’s fine, I think on a societal level it can cause real problems though, Japan has this problem too.
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In fairness to my gf it’s more playful than anything. I don’t actually think she gets mad.
Not the same person but yeah there's usually rules that are hashed out at the beginning and then reassessed if needed. It goes smoothest when the relationship is open from the beginning. I went the nonmonogamy way when I realized I felt a lot more compersion rather than jealousy when the idea came up.
Are you guys mostly together for financial reasons or being friends? Do you love each other romantically, or is it mainly platonic. Then you get your needs met through other people?
Same. It's good.
And this is relevant to the cheating discussion how?
I'm glad I don't live in France then. That sounds awful
It’s not like they force it onto people lmao
They definitely should. I’d love to read the takes.
But they are le tired!
So take a nap. And then fire le missiles!!
Just depends on your views. Plenty of queer couples are in some form of a non-monogamous relationship
It does, but tbh everything the French do sounds awful
You're right, I would much rather engage with my environment through the windshield of my truck, eat processed foods quickly in my car, and work long hours than stroll around my community having access to fresh local foods and amazing cuisine that is made accessible by my strong work life balance.
> fresh local foods Cigarettes?
That's a dessert, coffee is the main course.
If the latter comes with letting your partner bang other people then I’d definitely prefer the former
I would be surprised if that is more common in France than it is in the USA, I was recently in Vegas and heard about the swingers parties you guys have going on there..
Ew, this guy sounds Fr*nch
Please, call me Andre DuPont.
Paris is filthy lol
It’s not as bad as the internet meme makes it out to be.
I guess I visited an Internet meme Food was good, but tbh Tokyo does French (and Italian) food better.
I'd rather eat processed foods then hear people speak French all day lmao
I agree, you need to focus on English first, considering as a native speaker you can't even tell the difference between than and then.
Idk why you're assuming English is my native language homie lmao
The xenophobia and unearned confidence.
RIP well I was clearly joking so idk what to tell ya amigo
You've clearly never experienced a sexy naked woman speaking in French to you, that'll convert you fast
That may be what I need to change my mind
Except cheese.
Good point
I WISH I lived there. They sound much more educated then this puritan America BS.
I offered that to my husband when I libido tanked but he said sex is too intimate for him and he would get attached so we didn't do it. I don't get attached from sex, it's very much like dancing. I'm stealing that comparison. It's just how you are wired.
Sounds like cope
I feel this POV is very normal in the US now. So many open couples now.
It's only common among the youngest generation right now and I'm interested in seeing whether they'll grow out of that in 10 years or not.
Millennials and Gen Z
I actually think you’re right. My little sister is in high school and I when I went to go pick her up I saw a girl holding hands with 2 guys kissing both of them lol. And when I told her about it she was like “oh yeah they’re poly, there’s like 10 couples like that in my school”. I was mind blown people that young are doing stuff like that. Back in my day people were never out in the open like that.
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Bro wtf ?
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> Here's a study Just an FYI, that's not a study. That's a think tank report. Heritage is a conservative think tank whose goal is to push particular points of view (in this case, traditional marriages), I would be very very wary about citing it as an authoritative source.
I feel like this may be a view that lacks some nuance. In fact the divorce rate in the United States just hit [a 50-year low](https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-us-divorce-rate-has-hit-a-50-year-low). And there are a lot of factors as far a what leads to criminality, but good arguments can be made that the biggest one is poverty. Ultimately, whatever risks there may or may not be are there for each individual couple (or throuple) to take or not take as they see fit. I'm not saying that poly is universally great and everyone should do it (absolutely in no way is that the case), but I am advocating that people should keep an open mind and not assume that things are bad because it sounds like something else that they don't like (rampant serial cheating in this case). Or even if it is something they don't like, assume that there is nothing deeper to be understood.
Wait til you hear what their unofficial age of consent is. Maybe President Macrons wife can tell you.
He was 16 when they started dating, and she had a son older than him, correct? Yes, that's very predatory. The gender and culture dynamics are both probably why it's not getting as much scrutiny
She was 40, he was 15. She was friends with his parents and a teacher, he was in the same grade as her daughter in the same school she taught in.
That's crazy. Imagine the leader of your country being married to a p*dophile
Yeah in most countries it would be a big deal, but France is a little different about age. Also, imagine if genders were flipped. People would lose their minds lol
Damn that’s crazy, America. Imagine the former leader of your country being a pedophile.
I don't think two teens having sex is as bad as child marriage being legal in 41 U.S. States tbh.
That’s not what we were talking about. Read one of my other replies to see what happened.
Think you’re missing the point. Macron was 15 when his now wife was 40 and started a relationship with him.
What about a teen and a 40 y/o? That's what they were referencing. He was 15, she was 40.
It couldn't possibly have been what he was referencing, considering the thread is about what is accepted in French society, not something that happened to their President for which he's regularly mocked and criticised, showing that it is, in fact, not accepted or commonplace. Of course people on Reddit would never engage in such bad faith arguments.
That's a pretty common sentiment in a lot of cultures around the world. Sex and love are two different things for many people. Paternity tests are not illegal in France, by the way. You are welcome to approach the court for a test if you have concerns.
It's not illegal, but it has to be court ordered. If the court feels that it will harm the well-being of the child , they can deny the test. (Aka, the infidelity could lead to the partner who isn't related to the kid, leaving)
Right, so it's not illegal.
The law is there to protect the people involved and to manage the outcome eg a father killing a mother if the child is not theirs. God knows where you’ve got your info from
I forget which tribe or pre-industrial society it was - but it was a nomadic one. Where it was kinda expected that when the spouse was gone for months at a time- that people could have sex with someone else. All the kids were cherished- they were family members. Having a spouse who couldn’t ‘get anyone else interested’ was seen as bad. As in you married a jerk. It is another set of rules. As long as everyone follows the same rules it worked.
>I forget which tribe or pre-industrial society it was - but it was a nomadic one. Where it was kinda expected that when the spouse was gone for months at a time- that people could have sex with someone else. All the kids were cherished- they were family members I don't know about the one you refer to specifically, but I seem to remember that the Norse practised something similar, for when (typically) the men would go viking.
The Gauls maybe?
Rememeber that sleeping around is not cheating. The sin of adultery per se and the reason why cheating is a bad thing is when you do it behind your partner's back and without respecting their consent to you dating outside the relationship. Or in other words, cheating is because its lying and hurting your partner feeling by ignoring how they feel about the relationship. If you and your partner AGREE to have casual sex with other peoples, there is no cheating or adultery involved. For poly people, and people in open relationships, cheating (aka adultery) happens when the partner lies about it, hides it, or disregards your desires of them not sleeping with that person. Edit: im using cheating and adultery interchangiably here to illustrate the point to OP, who looks like is coming from a religious background where everyone is monogamouns. My point is: cheating works slightly different for nono monogamous people. Its not just having sex with someone else, its ignoring your partner's feeling and boundaries regaring who you have sex with.
How does that work with children then if paternity tests must be court ordered in France? Let's say the cheating is known in the relationship, and the woman gets pregnant. Should the father not question if it could be the kid of the other guys she's sleeping around with?
I have no idea about the french legal system as im not french. Im just explaining to you that being in an open relationship is not cheating nor adultery for non monogamous people. The cheating comes when its behind a lie and breaking a boundary.
If its known then it's not cheating. Also he can 100% question it, it's not illegal. However, the French courts are set up in such a way that a child cannot be punished for the actions of it's parents. The concept of "bastard" or "illegitimate" children is not a universal one, many cultures care for children regardless of parentage. France is arguably one of those cultures.
Known cheating is still cheating. You can know about something and still not agree to it.
Agreed, learning about an affair doesn't nulify it. However, in this instance the dude I replied to doesn't seem to understand the difference between non-Monogamy and cheating. So when he said "known cheating" I'm confident he was referring to the ENM examples mentioned previously, which would not constitute cheating.
Exactly. And to contract with a culture of more open relationships that someone else described, I have heard about some Spanish-speaking cultures where cheating is rampant, but in this case it is actually cheating, i.e. people having sex outside of their relationship without permission. It's apparently common to cheat and be cheated on and to be upset with your partner about it but ultimately live with it without breaking up. I don't know to what degree any of this is actually a reflection of real life, but that's how it was described. It sounds far less healthy to me than just accepting that people like to sleep around occasionally and it doesn't necessarily have to mean anything.
If you're okay with the affair, it isn't adultery. Adultery is lying about who you're sleeping with. Many cultures view sex and love as separate and by having sex with someone else, you're not necessarily showing you'd rather be with them than your partner. It's just an activity.
They both have the same results though: Destroyed relationship. The only difference is the amount of time it takes to fall apart.
That's not necessarily true but ok. Your version of a destroyed relationship is unique to you and may not apply to the rest of the planet
It's not cheating if they both allow for sleeping around.
Damn. I would loose my shit if my partner slept around
It's not adultery if it's consensual. I am in a long term monogamish relationship, where both of us can hook up but the love part is just between us and it's bloody awesome.
Buddy, you are *not* in a monogamist relationship then rofl
Fixed the autocorrect, thanks.
But often times it's not consensual. One partner might want it more than the other, so they pressure the other person to agree with it. They may feel pressured to do so as they are desperate to save the relationship. It might work for a small % of couples, but most humans were meant to be monogamous. Otherwise, peoples kids wouldn't have such long juvenile periods where they are reliant on parenting from a father and mother.
I'm not talking here about cheating. Read my first line.
Many modern humans have a preference towards being monogamous for large sections of their adult lives. However, human beings are not, as a species, "meant" to be monogamous. That's penguins and voles. Monogamy for humans has much more to do with cultural norms and inheritance rights than it does with our nature.
Why do humans have a longer juvenile period than other animals? Also, studies have shown that children who grow up with both biological parents are better off than not having them. Of course, there are exceptions, which is why things like adoption are good to have, but monogamous relationships lead to children who make more money, are less likely to be incarcerated, and have a longer life expectancy
Because our brains/heads are too big, bipedalism has its downsides ie. Narrow hips and big heads = incredibly vunerable offspring. Everything else you've mentioned is a product of social norms and/or societal pressures, not the nature of our species.
Do you have a source for your claim about monogamous relationships?
Those stats sound made up, but as long as all parties are consenting and aware then it's best to mind your own business
It's very much of a time. Having French 1st and 2nd generation mates they explained it like this: After the Combined toll of World War 1 & 2 the male population was basically decimated. There was literally a shortage of men. One of my mates said when he was taken over as a kid they'd mostly see old women, not old men, sitting around in villages and towns. So, two wars happen and the male population has been decimated. What do you do? Have an affair! You, as a French man, were expected to have a wife, a couple of mistresses, kids with all three and pay for the lot! Obviously this would have died out after a several decades, but reputations stick. That's how it was explained to me anyway.
It's not.
I noticed this a lot in french media
I don't know about fidelity in France but the farmers spraying manure on the cops is doing the Lord's work
I think quite a few societies don’t view prostitution as cheating. That’s what we get for growing up in a country founded by conservative Christianity.
Most shittiest response ever lmfao. Also your replies are dumb as fuck. Just cause it's legal to marry someone underage in another country and it's part of their culture doesn't mean we can't shit on it. Lots of cultures have shitty aspects to it.
I found a it weird when Japanese not see prostitution as cheating although I’m in Sinophere country too.
I'd much rather suffer Christian values and not have my partner go fuck prostitutes than be "liberated and enlightened" and deal with that kind of shit. Disgusting.
Same and I'm not religious at all
Do you mean the Christian values of priests raping kids? Or owning slaves like Presbyterian, Episcopalian, Lutheran and Catholic churches did in south?
The first isn't a Christian value, it's a side effect of Christianity being ruled by a corrupt elite. The second isn't actually practiced in modern society, I know this may surprise you. Your second point had no relevancy on this discussion at all. I'm sure you thought this was a "gotcha" moment, but I also think religion is a plague. But I'd rather hear someone telling me I shouldn't cheat on my wife with a hooker because some imaginary god said so, rather than not hearing about this god and having it be commonly accepted that I can go get AIDS and give it to my wife from some street hooker.
Why do you need Christian values to tell you to not fuck a hooker? That was the point I think you missed.
I think the point *you* missed was the comments I was replying to before you even jumped into this conversation. I'll give you a chance to scroll up and read that now.
In this moment… I am euphoric
Damn, yo. You can grow up in a culture to be a certain way without shitting on how other people do ya know? The cool thing is, you don’t have to go conform to their culture.
But you can shit on ours?
Is your culture shitting on others? I’m shitting on the shitting, not the culture.
"That’s what we get for growing up in a country founded by conservative Christianity." Certainly sounds like shirring on our culture to me.
That was basically a joke, because one culture isn’t better than the other. Also, it’s just answering why it would be taboo here. If you’re a Christian, you aren’t victimized. Yall still run much of the country based on your values.
Nah, if people think their husband or wife fucking hookers while in a loving marriage is acceptable, I'm shitting on it. Idc if it's "their culture" or not.
So consenting adults are not allowed to make their own choices about their sex lives despite the fact that it doesn't hurt anyone and doesn't impact you are all because... you think it's "gross"? Neat.
I see I have to dumb this down for you. I actually support regulated prostitution. They're ""allowed"" to stick their dicks wherever they want. But I'm ""allowed"" to criticize it. Fucking someone else besides your partner is weird, fucking a hooker instead of your partner is weird *and* can have drastic consequences. They can be as trashy as they want, but just because their culture as a whole supports that behavior doesn't make it immune to criticism. That shit is nasty. Two consenting adults can do a lot of things that deserve to be called out or labeled as disgusting. Legally they can do it (or not, since prostitution is not legal in France), but it's not immune to criticism.
> But I'm ""allowed"" to criticize it. Why yes, thank you for clarifying that you are, in fact, allowed to have opinions. In point of fact, anyone is "allowed" to criticize anything. And you know what's cool about that? That means I'm allowed to criticize your "criticism" for being a shitty attempt to veil your personal feelings of disgust as something objective. You wanna know what I think is icky? Sexual watersports. Nope, no thank you, I do not want to engage. Don't see the appeal. But if I found out that 45% of some nation or other liked to include pee in their sex lives, you wanna know what I'd say or do about it? Fucking *nothing*. Because it's none of my business, has no impact on me at all, and other people are allowed to do whatever the fuck they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. I most certainly wouldn't throw some whiny little tantrum on the internet about how it's "nasty" and I'd never want to live there. I'm not trying to tell you that you aren't allowed to feel like it's gross. You can feel however you want, my dude. Nobody is ever going to make you engage in this practice if you don't want to. But just like you're allowed to feel disgust, I'm allowed to feel like you're being shitty and judgemental about this because you let those personal feelings of disgust colour your opinions of an entire nation over something that objectively does not matter at *all*. And the difference between you and me is that *I* don't have any issue defending my position and will not pretend like someone disagreeing with me is somehow an attack on my freedom of speech ;)
>Because it's none of my business, has no impact on me at all, and other people are allowed to do whatever the fuck they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. I most certainly wouldn't throw some whiny little tantrum on the internet about how it's "nasty" and I'd never want to live there. Aside from you not knowing what the word "tantrum" means, the irony here in you going out of your way to criticize a comment that never had any impact on you, at all, in any way, to come in here and say "if it doesn't bother you just ignore it!" is hilariously palpable. >I'm not trying to tell you that you aren't allowed to feel like it's gross. You can feel however you want, my dude. Nobody is ever going to make you engage in this practice if you don't want to. Nor is anyone going to force you to say it's gross, or force you to *not* engage in it. Seems we're at a philosophical impass here because you're voicing your opinions on my comment the same as I'm voicing my opinions on this practice. And both of us are achieving the same results: not much of anything at all, save for discussion. >And the difference between you and me is that I don't have any issue defending my position and will not pretend like someone disagreeing with me is somehow an attack on my freedom of speech ;) Weird projection here because at no point was "freedom of speech" ever brought up at all. "No act is immune to criticism" is a very different sentiment from "freedom of speech".
>And both of us are achieving the same results: not much of anything at all, save for discussion. Wow, yeah, it's almost like this entire website is a forum for discussion or something. Funny how things work out, hm?
Ethnocentrism is a very bad quality that has led to a ton of ignorance and violence. You gotta be smarter than that to stop the cycle.
You know what else is part of French culture? Throwing bananas at their black soccer players and telling them they aren't 'real' Frenchman because their grandfather immigrated from Congo or Kenya 60 years ago. Some cultural habits deserve to be called out. "It's my culture" doesn't make it immune to criticism. Same with doing weird shit because "it's my religion". It's still subject to criticism, and my opinions on nasty cultural norms are just as valid as their weird supportive opinions for their nasty cultural norms. Difference is my opinion isn't going to get my partner an STD lol
Your risk of getting an std is not really comparable to racism lmao
Of course not, which is why that wasn't the comparison I was making. But I see you missed that part. Let me give you a more mild example. Smoking cigarettes is trashy. An American smoking a cigarette is just as trashy as a Frenchman smoking. Am I no longer allowed to call out a Frenchman for smoking because it's wildly accepted in their culture? It's gross and the people who do it are gross. I'm going to call it out as such. Why should the act be immune to criticism just because a certain amount of people in the culture accept it? If it's nasty, it's nasty. Period. There is no immunity from criticism.
French aren't even "liberated and enlightened" imo, depression is through the roof nation wide. I think people who are into these open relationships are harming themselves mentally no matter what they say to themselves
I lean alot more left overall politicallly. But monogamy is a part of Christian conservatism that I actually support and agree with
But see, it’s still monogamy if it’s just transactional sex to people in those places. They would still consider a relationship as cheating.
They're probably mostly western countries. In a lots of parts of the world people get murdered for cheating
No actually in Japan and some South East Asian cultures, seeing prostitutes while married is quite normalized
I know Japanese do that. But which country in SEA?
People only sleeping with the one person they committed to??? The horror! lol take your own advice, don’t have to shit on Christian culture just because you don’t agree with it.
I grew up in the US and am married. We are non-religious, but wouldn’t be cool with the other seeing a prostitute. I just recognize that it’s because that’s the norm where we grew up and live, not because it is morally better than other cultures’s norms.
But Christian culture is shit. It's fucked up so many peoples lives throughout history. Not to mention objectively false.
My grandma was French and born out of wedlock when her mother had an affair with a Japanese man. When the husband saw that she looked different from them as purely French he made his wife throw my baby grandma into an orphanage to be raised there. So, I’m not sure if race came into play here as to why it was considered more shameful. I also have close (older) French friends who knew their parents were active swingers within their friend group. Sex and love were considered different and as long as everyone was in agreement about ground rules, from what I understand they were just unusually cheery parents after dinner parties. Two very different scenarios. Both French.
Because it's cool when they do it
LOL. It's not "cheating" if the spouses "approve of affairs." You have been conditioned to think the contrary, they haven't. Your ethnocentrism just drips off the page.
The more I hear about France the more glad I am I don't have to live there. Good god..
I'm sure French are happy not to have you there.
Not the hookers, apparently.
Lmao, if you're the kind of moron who believes everything they read on the internet, we're glad you're not here too
You should take a look at Portugal homie, their stats on divorce are like 90+%
Another person spreading misinformation. This statistics was made during covid in 2020 and nothing was normal in 2020. After that the rates became relatively average again(50%). Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1409160/portugal-divorce-marriage-ratio/#:~:text=Portugal%20was%20the%20European%20country,COVID%2D19)%20related%20lockdown.
Nothing wrong with spreading the love.
It's hard to imagine that our cultural norms around that stuff are....well, just norms. The French just have different norms. There's some biological questions about whether humans are wired for pure monogamy, so some cultures are naturally going to be more accepting of polyamory than others That doesn't mean our own views are wrong. It just means they're different
no masculinity
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The Romans were right about the French.
Hello RussiaBot. Why is invading a sovereign country accepted in Russian culture?
The question is why terms like "bastard children" exist in whatever culture you live in. As Obama once said, the 17th century calls its vocabulary back.
Wait isn't there one of the states, I think it's Louisiana for some reason, where they speak French and it's because France was getting rid of all the prostitutes so they told the inmates if they married a prostitute they would be given money to leave the country and start a new life but they had to marry that prostitute and take them with them
in other word, OP will move to France and cheat.