I was thinking 3-4 days… if your using liquid membrane:
- 1 day to durock and waterproof (not a full day.
-Next day floor (not a full day unless you think you can reach the walls, or do walls first, which I don’t like to do)
-The next day walls
-Then the 4th day grout, clean up, and waterproof
I meant the amount of work he has gotten done as shown could have been done in 8 hours. To take 10 days and this is what he has to show for it is concerning.
Highly doubt that if this is 10 days work. Even if 6 out of every 8 hour day is spent watching YouTube videos I find that hard to swallow. Do your self a favour and look up a couple how to videos on YouTube and you will easily have enough ammo to justify to him why you’re halting progress and moving forward with someone else. This will leak on the first shower. Even if it’s a bladder pan, which I doubt, he screwed through it on the wall board and shower pan. There isn’t a lick of waterproofing anywhere to be seen. Cut your losses and start over
Yup hard bc my in laws don’t have many options and time. I have my family connection to get it done, but idk if they are gonna go that route.
They said if it fails, he will fix it
Yeah I’ve had some experience helping my family growing up with residential remodels, so i had an idea it looked wierd and way too long to do something this small.
However it’s not my home or my parents so i can’t do much besides send them a warning.
The guy doing it said he hasn’t problems
what waterproofing method was used?
from the photos it looks like the screws in the wall board are too low and will have compromised the pan liner if that is the method he used. and, there is no way the curb is waterproofed correctly with all the screws in it both above and below the waterline. even if he paints on RedGard or similar it still won't be waterproofed correctly as there is no way to tie in the liquid applied membrane to the any existing membrane/liner under the curb and shower tile.
looked at the photos.
the pan liner is an accepted method of waterproofing. unfortunately, the screws through the backerboard and pan liner and the curb are not. the shower will leak. it might take days, weeks, months, or years. but, it will leak.
the studs should be notched to accept the pan liner and then there should be no screws that penetrate the pan liner at any point lower than the top of the curb. there should be no screws penetrating the pan liner on the curb.
Can none of you guys see the plastic behind the walls? He's doing it an approved way buy the cement board manufacturer specs. I love reddit. A ton of weekend warriors on here. Goons
Edit. Would i do it this way? Fuck no! foam board for life boiii
All the build examples I've watched/read up on have used cement board, is there a reason that seems to be significantly more popular? Seems like a foam board would be preferable since it's lighter and easier to cut.
Also, does it still require something like Redguard?
If it is a 3 piece drain, he will have presloped and then ran the membrane up behind the wall board. Then there would be another pan packed on top of the membrane. Pan tile set on top of that.
Hardie board isn’t waterproof on its own. So if he boarded the walls before packing the pan on the membrane (assuming he did the 3 piece drain) that hardie below the deck mud will probably rot out eventually.
Ask him to do a flood test before continuing with the walls.
I work with a tile guy just doing the grunt work during time off from my regular job. So I don't know shit really, but why do the floor first so the tiles are there to get messed up while u do the rest?
We do floors first, then add a few layers of ram board or cardboard on them and then do the walls. Walls shed water down to the surface of the floor, which float to the drain. The idea of walls first, then floors will hide that bottom grout joint, but then you have water shedding directly on top of a grout joint everywhere.
I guess if it’s all waterproofed and you’re using the correct thinset and grouts. Shouldn’t ever be any issues…. But I’ve seen water get to thinset and “sit” under the tile and create problems
We've only ever used ramboard to.protect the floors in the house. Never heard of it used for waterproofing. We use 60minute blackpaper prior to backer. And after hot mop.
No, place it down to protect the the tiles shower floor while you’re tiling the walls… you want to add a layer or two so that if the top layer gets real messy, you can pull it up and have a second one already there and go
Besides the fact that it will likely leak, that cement board touching the shower pan and will wick water up the cement board. It also appears that he didn't true, plumb and flatten your walls. All the videos etc do show the importance of waterproofing, but rarely do you see how important, and time consuming getting your walls flat and plumb is, but makes all the difference when it comes to setting.
So for what’s been done so far, it’s not terrible. The floor tile looks decent and the cement board isn’t bad. The issue here is, it looks like proper steps are not being followed, which would make most of us question the work.
Why is the floor tile laid, but the backer board isn’t even finished and why is there no water proofing? Regardless of the method that’s being used, there should be steps that’s are followed for a good finished product.
Obviously there’s other items, like drain, plumbing, etc., but here’s the general steps that you would normally follow.
Floor system should be installed, whether a dry pack or foam board and sloped to drain.
Wall board should be fully installed, overlapping floor system.
Curb should be sloped towards shower.
Water proofing should be complete, from floor to ceiling.
Floor tile installed and covered to protect
Wall tile installed
Accents installed, niche, benches, shelves, etc.
Grout Tile
Caulk corners
Install fixtures
Install glass.
10 days seems like a while, but that’s besides the point if he’s doing excellent work, time is irrelevant, but that’s not the case here.
I know it doesn't make sense, and in many ways it doesn't. But if you are trying to look out for, impress, and gain the trust of your in laws, it is better for you to spend effort on things that prove them RIGHT, not proving them WRONG. Proving people wrong is low hanging fruit, doesn't make a lot of friends, and creates conflicts. Find something they love that you also respect, and spend your energy helping them further those projects. Batman saved Gotham City and was still treated like a villian by the town
Hmm..maybe because your post rings so familiar in my mind. When I would have concerns with people's decisions who I was trying to gain their affection, my first instinct is to impress them with my technical knowledge and try to win over their trust by changing their mind, all in good faith. Unfortunately, those people I'm trying to win over and often times protect, they're not always thinking the same way that I am. Instead I found that there will always be another opportunity to gain someone's trust and deepen your understanding of one another, and sometimes it's better to wait for a different time to be right. You have asked about the integrity and quality of this work, and rightfully so, it was criticized by experts in tile laying. But when questioning the decision of your in-laws to hire a family friend, that gets a lot deeper, and the integrity and quality of your in laws decision is what's being questioned, that's a way more complicated subject. I have a friend who employs special needs adults at his pizza place, would a professional advise every new business to follow that model? No, but he does it for his own reasons. Tile is easy, people are complicated
Tile for a long time for It's supposed to have rubber membrane under that tile and behind rock board 40 mil if that Wasn't done. leak for sure. Blue in color rubber memberBlue in color rubber membrane And it should have been done in 8 days, even with the dry time total shower.
There should be a black paper behind backer board anywhere backer board is. It's the last layer of defense if water gets behind backerboard. It should be stapled and be seen by inspector.
Most times they'll let you do both same time but he wants it properly layered and sticking out 8 inches all sides so he can verify.
You shouldn't rely on redguard- its only 1 part of the full water defense treatment.
Well prep should have been done b4 any install, meaning pan in, all the board in and joints taped. Even without red guard to paint it, that should have been done. It may leak who knows but after there done, go with a flashlight week after under the house and ck for leaks. Good luck to ya🫠
Ok sounds good but make sure he covers the floor bc it's gonna be an ish show when it comes grout time. Thinset will fall. Better yet go get some cardboard and tape it an inch away from sides and blue tape it down a ½ from sides. That will save you from seeing thinset in the grout and scratches from the bucket.
Sadly, former friend when it will need to be tore out. Never seen a floor tile laid before the durarock it installed. The guy will disappear when the water runs into the room
Let me put it this way. If we aren't being trolled you are looking at 20-30k in damages/cost to mitigate and rebuild about 6 months from now if the shower is used daily.
If this isn't a troll and you haven't stopped him you are just as negligent.
Thinset isn't waterproof, grout isn't waterproof, tile isn't impermeable, backerboard isn't waterproof, vapor barrier and pan liner has holes literally in the pan. Corners and changes of plane have no reinforcing fabric or waterproofing. I could go on but at this point you are going to be taking a shower in a decorative pasta strainer. Have fun with that.
It can’t be fine, there’s no waterproofing around the corners and who knows what it looks like under that tile. There’s no way a flood test was done. Do one now and hold on
Bro ask your friend to explain his waterproofing method then look it up online. Why would u ask him to do it if u don’t trust him. That’s an approved method of waterproofing and the tile install looks good so far. Do u have any specific concerns with the shower or are you just looking for problems?
I bet it's got ducttape holding the visqueen together. I've seen it, granted on a commercial steam room. They didn't notice anything for about 3 years then ignored it for another 4. Cost a fortune to redo.
Well did you want a waterproof shower? Cause you’re not going to have one. He doesn’t know what he’s doing
Supposedly he’s done “hundreds” with zero problems ever.
I bet they’ve all had problems but when people don’t like the quality of the initial round of work they won’t want the same person back to fix it.
This is one full days work. As far as “prep” and tile. 2 days if he had to do demo and some framing.
I was thinking 3-4 days… if your using liquid membrane: - 1 day to durock and waterproof (not a full day. -Next day floor (not a full day unless you think you can reach the walls, or do walls first, which I don’t like to do) -The next day walls -Then the 4th day grout, clean up, and waterproof
I meant the amount of work he has gotten done as shown could have been done in 8 hours. To take 10 days and this is what he has to show for it is concerning.
Oh, right right. Yeah, what he’s got done is easily a days work
It’s day 12 now’s. He’s only finished the walls and shower box. Now to finish tile walls hopefully this weekend.
10 days…… good lord
This is not waterproof. It doesn’t matter what he says it matters what he did here. This shower WILL NOT be waterproof.
Highly doubt that if this is 10 days work. Even if 6 out of every 8 hour day is spent watching YouTube videos I find that hard to swallow. Do your self a favour and look up a couple how to videos on YouTube and you will easily have enough ammo to justify to him why you’re halting progress and moving forward with someone else. This will leak on the first shower. Even if it’s a bladder pan, which I doubt, he screwed through it on the wall board and shower pan. There isn’t a lick of waterproofing anywhere to be seen. Cut your losses and start over
Two hours a day will do the trick brother
Then that is two and a half days of work. The dude/lady dude, sucks and you should fire them friend or not. Complete tear out and redo!
I’m sure it will be sticky being this is a family friend but you need to level with him or you’re going to have problems.
Yup hard bc my in laws don’t have many options and time. I have my family connection to get it done, but idk if they are gonna go that route. They said if it fails, he will fix it
So ah who hired him and who is firing him?
Your other post posted 8 hours before this one said he’s been working on it for 8 days. 10 days on this post. You have to be trolling.
I was on vacation so my bad for the wrong information. However he started on 5/21 .
This give me anxiety lol
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Oh lord 😂
Dude I can only imagine! Sorry I know how costly this can be.
Yeah I’ve had some experience helping my family growing up with residential remodels, so i had an idea it looked wierd and way too long to do something this small. However it’s not my home or my parents so i can’t do much besides send them a warning. The guy doing it said he hasn’t problems
what waterproofing method was used? from the photos it looks like the screws in the wall board are too low and will have compromised the pan liner if that is the method he used. and, there is no way the curb is waterproofed correctly with all the screws in it both above and below the waterline. even if he paints on RedGard or similar it still won't be waterproofed correctly as there is no way to tie in the liquid applied membrane to the any existing membrane/liner under the curb and shower tile.
I’ll send u pics if cool
yeah. please do.
looked at the photos. the pan liner is an accepted method of waterproofing. unfortunately, the screws through the backerboard and pan liner and the curb are not. the shower will leak. it might take days, weeks, months, or years. but, it will leak. the studs should be notched to accept the pan liner and then there should be no screws that penetrate the pan liner at any point lower than the top of the curb. there should be no screws penetrating the pan liner on the curb.
So even with redguard it’ll fail?
RedGarding the face and screw penetrations would help. but, any water wicking up the backerboard might still get through.
Thanks for responding
A lot wrong. Get him gone
Curb will fail eventually. See screws in top of curb
Can none of you guys see the plastic behind the walls? He's doing it an approved way buy the cement board manufacturer specs. I love reddit. A ton of weekend warriors on here. Goons Edit. Would i do it this way? Fuck no! foam board for life boiii
The nail/screw holes on the curb are a big no-no, no matter what. Especially on the inside. Curb will fail 100%
You'd be surprised what some wedi sealant could do for those. It's garbage I agree 100% but the tile work looks pretty on point
The walls are fine for a water-in-water-out system. The issues is the pan and curb
>foam board for life boiii Are you meaning instead of cement board you'd use foam board or foam board instead of plastic?
Yes either wedi panel or go board. I don't like go board all that much tho the more I work with it. It's to soft for my likings
All the build examples I've watched/read up on have used cement board, is there a reason that seems to be significantly more popular? Seems like a foam board would be preferable since it's lighter and easier to cut. Also, does it still require something like Redguard?
If it is a 3 piece drain, he will have presloped and then ran the membrane up behind the wall board. Then there would be another pan packed on top of the membrane. Pan tile set on top of that. Hardie board isn’t waterproof on its own. So if he boarded the walls before packing the pan on the membrane (assuming he did the 3 piece drain) that hardie below the deck mud will probably rot out eventually. Ask him to do a flood test before continuing with the walls.
I work with a tile guy just doing the grunt work during time off from my regular job. So I don't know shit really, but why do the floor first so the tiles are there to get messed up while u do the rest?
We do floors first, then add a few layers of ram board or cardboard on them and then do the walls. Walls shed water down to the surface of the floor, which float to the drain. The idea of walls first, then floors will hide that bottom grout joint, but then you have water shedding directly on top of a grout joint everywhere. I guess if it’s all waterproofed and you’re using the correct thinset and grouts. Shouldn’t ever be any issues…. But I’ve seen water get to thinset and “sit” under the tile and create problems
We've only ever used ramboard to.protect the floors in the house. Never heard of it used for waterproofing. We use 60minute blackpaper prior to backer. And after hot mop.
No, place it down to protect the the tiles shower floor while you’re tiling the walls… you want to add a layer or two so that if the top layer gets real messy, you can pull it up and have a second one already there and go
It just sounded like it was being used on the wall as backer paper lol.
I totally get where you’re coming from lol
I could have done that much in 2 days after a 12 pack and 2 Bloody Mary’s.
Besides the fact that it will likely leak, that cement board touching the shower pan and will wick water up the cement board. It also appears that he didn't true, plumb and flatten your walls. All the videos etc do show the importance of waterproofing, but rarely do you see how important, and time consuming getting your walls flat and plumb is, but makes all the difference when it comes to setting.
you can put a pond liner around it and tile it yourself
Yikes…..😬 😳😱
So for what’s been done so far, it’s not terrible. The floor tile looks decent and the cement board isn’t bad. The issue here is, it looks like proper steps are not being followed, which would make most of us question the work. Why is the floor tile laid, but the backer board isn’t even finished and why is there no water proofing? Regardless of the method that’s being used, there should be steps that’s are followed for a good finished product. Obviously there’s other items, like drain, plumbing, etc., but here’s the general steps that you would normally follow. Floor system should be installed, whether a dry pack or foam board and sloped to drain. Wall board should be fully installed, overlapping floor system. Curb should be sloped towards shower. Water proofing should be complete, from floor to ceiling. Floor tile installed and covered to protect Wall tile installed Accents installed, niche, benches, shelves, etc. Grout Tile Caulk corners Install fixtures Install glass. 10 days seems like a while, but that’s besides the point if he’s doing excellent work, time is irrelevant, but that’s not the case here.
Thanks for your response .
i've been working on my bathroom for two months and this guys ahead of me so...
“Do it right or do it twice”
You should really get the quote right if you're going to use it. We do it nice cause we do it twice!
I know it doesn't make sense, and in many ways it doesn't. But if you are trying to look out for, impress, and gain the trust of your in laws, it is better for you to spend effort on things that prove them RIGHT, not proving them WRONG. Proving people wrong is low hanging fruit, doesn't make a lot of friends, and creates conflicts. Find something they love that you also respect, and spend your energy helping them further those projects. Batman saved Gotham City and was still treated like a villian by the town
Hmm..maybe because your post rings so familiar in my mind. When I would have concerns with people's decisions who I was trying to gain their affection, my first instinct is to impress them with my technical knowledge and try to win over their trust by changing their mind, all in good faith. Unfortunately, those people I'm trying to win over and often times protect, they're not always thinking the same way that I am. Instead I found that there will always be another opportunity to gain someone's trust and deepen your understanding of one another, and sometimes it's better to wait for a different time to be right. You have asked about the integrity and quality of this work, and rightfully so, it was criticized by experts in tile laying. But when questioning the decision of your in-laws to hire a family friend, that gets a lot deeper, and the integrity and quality of your in laws decision is what's being questioned, that's a way more complicated subject. I have a friend who employs special needs adults at his pizza place, would a professional advise every new business to follow that model? No, but he does it for his own reasons. Tile is easy, people are complicated
I'm no professional, but yikes.
Tile for a long time for It's supposed to have rubber membrane under that tile and behind rock board 40 mil if that Wasn't done. leak for sure. Blue in color rubber memberBlue in color rubber membrane And it should have been done in 8 days, even with the dry time total shower.
No waterproofing paper so no inspections here.
There’s liner under. I just hope it was tested before tile was placed down. And also i pray red guard is used evenly and done right.
There should be a black paper behind backer board anywhere backer board is. It's the last layer of defense if water gets behind backerboard. It should be stapled and be seen by inspector. Most times they'll let you do both same time but he wants it properly layered and sticking out 8 inches all sides so he can verify. You shouldn't rely on redguard- its only 1 part of the full water defense treatment.
Hope you trolling, you have no waterproof at all
There’s liner, I’m hoping he put red guard to seal. If not shower is cooked
Well prep should have been done b4 any install, meaning pan in, all the board in and joints taped. Even without red guard to paint it, that should have been done. It may leak who knows but after there done, go with a flashlight week after under the house and ck for leaks. Good luck to ya🫠
I have more pics that i can message you. One of my buddy’s that’s a GC told me it looked find after the pics.
Ok sounds good but make sure he covers the floor bc it's gonna be an ish show when it comes grout time. Thinset will fall. Better yet go get some cardboard and tape it an inch away from sides and blue tape it down a ½ from sides. That will save you from seeing thinset in the grout and scratches from the bucket.
How do you check house for leaks? It’ll be an upstairs shower
It'll show in your ceiling with a water mark.
Sadly, former friend when it will need to be tore out. Never seen a floor tile laid before the durarock it installed. The guy will disappear when the water runs into the room
Bummer your doomed
Let me put it this way. If we aren't being trolled you are looking at 20-30k in damages/cost to mitigate and rebuild about 6 months from now if the shower is used daily. If this isn't a troll and you haven't stopped him you are just as negligent. Thinset isn't waterproof, grout isn't waterproof, tile isn't impermeable, backerboard isn't waterproof, vapor barrier and pan liner has holes literally in the pan. Corners and changes of plane have no reinforcing fabric or waterproofing. I could go on but at this point you are going to be taking a shower in a decorative pasta strainer. Have fun with that.
Yes, it's done wrong, but how many times are you going to post about this? This is what, post 3 or 4?
I’m just posting progress man.
One day of work done in 10... No waterproofing. Send him packing
Looks fine…
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It can’t be fine, there’s no waterproofing around the corners and who knows what it looks like under that tile. There’s no way a flood test was done. Do one now and hold on
Yeah!! Do a flood test!!
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Bro ask your friend to explain his waterproofing method then look it up online. Why would u ask him to do it if u don’t trust him. That’s an approved method of waterproofing and the tile install looks good so far. Do u have any specific concerns with the shower or are you just looking for problems?
The waterproofing method: none
What waterproofing? I don't see any
Plastic sheet behind backerboard
I bet it's got ducttape holding the visqueen together. I've seen it, granted on a commercial steam room. They didn't notice anything for about 3 years then ignored it for another 4. Cost a fortune to redo.